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Hello and welcome back to the Interior Design Podcast. Today our guest is Erin Froment,

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the co-founder of Black Dog Designs who has come to talk to us about pub design. Welcome

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Erin.

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Thank you for having me, it's nice to be here and see you. So, catch up for the week because

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Cheryl's not here so we're just going to catch up for the week with Erin. How are you doing?

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What are you getting up to at the moment?

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I'm good, I've been all over the country this week. We've had a few handovers and we've

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got another one on Monday. So I was actually down in Southampton for snagging meeting yesterday

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which went really well and then we've got that handover on Monday and then I also went

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to the Cranley which is in Bournemouth for their two week review and it's looking lovely.

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It's doing very well which is great news.

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It's a proud moment isn't it when you've handed over and it's all done.

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Absolutely, yeah there's nothing better as a designer when somebody says outright how

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amazing the design is because at the end of the day that's what we all want isn't it

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as designers.

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Definitely. Yeah this week I went to the Noodle Bar on Saturday which is a project that we've

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just finished designing in Colchester and it's one of my favourite restaurants as well.

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You know and you're like oh my god I'm designing my favourite restaurant and they've extended

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it and I was having dinner with a couple of friends and the owner was like and I can't

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take credit for the design, this is my designer and he was like tell everyone about it. I'm

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not sure if I'm embarrassed or really proud.

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Yeah probably a bit of both.

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But yeah that was a really cool designer and Smarlet helped me with that but yeah it was

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really cool to see her face as well.

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It's always a lot of fun when it goes from plan because we can see the space when we're

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looking at plans. We've been doing it for so long haven't we so when we look at the

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furniture and how it's laid out but for other people they can't read that the same way.

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We just had that done in my house. Me and my husband have had an extension and I could

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just see it and he's gone in there and like oh it's a bit smaller than I thought it was

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going to be. I'm like no that's exactly what I thought it was going to be like. It's really

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weird isn't it? It's like a thing that you've got when you're designing.

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Absolutely I mean even with my husband it took a few years for the compromises to stop

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because I used to have to show him what I wanted to do before we'd go ahead and do it

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and now I go ahead and do it and he's happy.

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We have Boris wallpaper in the hallway and he loves it now and it's all.

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With hole and done.

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It is.

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Oh my god.

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My favourite wallpaper.

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So yeah no other things that I've been doing this week. I'm working on a really exciting

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project in Liverpool Street which is a three well it's actually a five story building but

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the top and the bottom stories are toilets and I think they might be the best toilets

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that I've ever designed. I'm like oh my god I love the toilets. The client's just gone

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with it and they just look amazing and the rest of it is all the three stories are three

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different so the ground floor is the garden and then the second floor is the amber bar

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which we've done like backlit tobacco panelling.

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Wow.

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Oh my god I'm so excited. Watch out on social media.

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What's the other floor?

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Oh the third floor is what I'm doing in the moment so the third floor is going to be like

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a restaurant bar but it's got a lighter feel to it so it's more teals and like papers with

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birds on it by Romo.

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That sounds so exciting especially as you're focusing on the toilets because they always

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get left behind so it's a lovely one.

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Oh my god toilets. They're so important aren't they?

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They are very important. I think that's where a lot of the time the budget is cut and they

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should not be cut because people remember what the toilets are especially women because

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we go in there have a natter and if it is horrendous yeah we remember that.

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You don't get to play in there do you?

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No.

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But with toilets it's like that whole look about if the toilets are crap then what's

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the hygiene like almost? It's almost like if the toilets aren't very good well you know

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what's going on behind the scenes.

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Yeah yeah absolutely if you've got 70s tiles still on the toilet walls then what's in the

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kitchen because that is not what you want.

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How gross is it going to be?

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Yeah absolutely.

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But yeah no I think yeah toilets I always say unless somebody comes out of the toilets

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and says have you seen the toilets I haven't done my job properly.

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Yeah I totally agree.

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That's got to happen.

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Yeah and I think recently with clients because back like five eight years ago they were definitely

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where the budgets were cut and focus it elsewhere but recently that I think they've caught on

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on the fact that actually the toilets are just as important and if they're clean and

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tidy and functional as well as the design factor everybody appreciates it more so yeah

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I'd definitely say have a look at the toilets because if they look horrible that's what

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people are going to remember even if the rest of it is all lovely.

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So Erin is here today to educate us about pub design.

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As best I can.

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I'll probably put in a little bit as well because I've done a lot of pubs and I'm really

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looking forward to hearing some of the things like some of your experience as well because

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obviously I've done some pubs but I think you do more pubs than me and you work with

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a lot of the big pub groups on a regular basis where I sort of dipped in and out of that

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and I've done a lot of independent so I'm quite interested to see what the difference

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is.

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Yeah I mean I've been quite lucky over the years because I've been doing this for now

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over 10 years and when I first came into it I didn't quite realise how much of a community

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the hospitality industry was and it is very much a community and yeah it's the people

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you know and the way that the pubs work and function and it definitely helps that I did

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work in a pub for five years through college and uni so I've been behind the bar.

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That is so important isn't it.

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I have worked with designers before who were like oh no I've got no interest in doing stuff

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like that and I'm like how can you not want to do that like I really want to go in and

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go can I just work in here for a day just so I can design it a bit better.

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As long as you can still pull a pint then you're good.

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Erin what do you think the most important elements of pub design are?

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Well I think with pub design the main focus and the heart of every site should be and

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is the bar.

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The bar is where you're selling the product and you're wanting everybody to buy really

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so your customer journey needs to be taking you to that heart of the pub so I would say

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from entering the pub if you can see the bar fantastic if you can't you need to direct

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people towards that because that is your selling point so at all times I mainly work for brewers

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they want their badges to be seen because that is what they're selling they're keeping

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their brewery going as well so that's how I would say the heart of the pub is the bar.

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Cool so what would you design around the bar so you've got like the bar is the focal point

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where you go first and then what other areas of a pub would you do you have like different

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zones because a lot of the pub groups have different zones don't they what are the zones

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that you do?

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I mean it's interesting really because I think it's a lot of pub design has developed a lot

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over since Covid and everybody had to sit down and it's kind of morphed into this different

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type of experience so I've got a lot of previous history of how every just you want everyone

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to walk up to the bar but now you can have a mixture of both so whether or not you are

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going up to a stand to be greeted by someone to be sat down or if they still want the traditional

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pub walk up to the bar be served and then sit down so I think with different brands

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is a different element of a journey so in a traditional pub your journey would be coming

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through from the entrance to see the bar if it's available and within that pub layout

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so you could walk over to that so you'd have mid-height furniture which we've been using

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a lot more over the last few years because it's not posable it's comfortable like dining

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areas so we use that so that then they're still comfortable when people are walking

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past and then off of that bar then you go into dining areas or sports areas depending

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on if they've got a large sports viewing or if there's pool tables or dart sports which

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we'd always try and keep close enough to the bar but separate so that females as well even

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if they do love sports they don't always want to walk into a sports area so then they can

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go off into the dining area or join the sports so I'd say there's definitely layout choices

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depending on the client with some of sort of more sports led it is going to be sports

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darts pool table in one area and then dining in the other but at all points the bar is

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still the heart of that so then you kind of brand off of it so that's the the heart of

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the body and then the rest of it sort of branches off from that so that's how I would view it

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but yeah.

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Do you think that there's like this there's a big thing about sort of men and women because

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there's because when I was working for Green King there was a lot of talk about kind of

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well we want to bring women back in into the pubs and and it was really funny for me because

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I'm like well don't women feel comfortable in pubs? And Ash what's your experience of

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that?

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I think it's a mixture it definitely is the clientele for that area because you can get

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some like bistro pubs which it's going to be dog walkers as well so there's a mixture

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there's going to have men and women there but we definitely do see in more of the sports

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led that is male dominating so you're looking at like 80% drinking over 20% food but if

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you're looking at 80% food over 20% dining you're going to be over 20% drink sorry you're

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going to be looking more towards the female for some reason the softer the more comfortable

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and the sports led always is harder.

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I don't necessarily think it is just men and women but it is just sort of the the natural

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my husband goes off and watches for I don't tend to do that when I go to the pub I go

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to have a bottle of wine and a lot of my friends are the same so it is kind of just the way

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that we are. I think it still even though everything is more equal than it used to be

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if a woman walks into a pub that they're all rowdy men contractors not to have an issue

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of contractors in the family they're going to feel uncomfortable so keeping that sort

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of separate dependent on clientele is important.

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So having like so if you've got like different kinds I mean my local pub for example has

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got like one area where all the contractors go yeah which has got like a wooden floor

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and a pool table and a jukebox and dartboard and then the other bit is more loungy more

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restauranty and it's got a carpet and it's softer so is that quite important in most

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pubs to do that?

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Just to ensure that everybody that goes in there is comfortable because I'm sure everybody

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has one local pub where women won't go into it because as soon as they go in all of the

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regulars look at them and it's very uncomfortable so we have a lot of the large brewers and

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companies that I work with we don't want that we want to make sure that everybody any person

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is comfortable when they walk in so from entrance rather than having that straight away impact

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of sports male dominated no we want that to be sort of the transitional area so a bit

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of both so that we can all mingle together which is fine because a lot of mixed groups

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that do go in but so that then females don't feel uncomfortable coming in but also on the

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flip side if it is too feminine it also is not inviting to the males so it's yeah it's

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just finding that balance really that that entrance area is an important thing to think

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of if you've got an area for men or men and women but sports mainly off to the left and

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then dining and if you need it to be family friendly as well off to another side so you've

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got a clear comfortable walkway through to be able to choose what way you want to go

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to where you want to either view TVs or have dinner with your family or drinks with the

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ladies which if there's a cocktail section fantastic yeah.

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Have you come across much we sort of briefly touched on toilets have you come across much

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sort of the gender neutral thing because we're starting in the industry to kind of like really

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you know you need a DDA gender neutral some people are just going all out gender neutral

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toilets some people are like no way the women won't go in the men's or you know they don't

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want to some some people are saying that women are way worse than men in terms of tidiness

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and I've seen that for myself there have one site I have up north once we kitted out the

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ladies toilets so lovely it had this beautiful wallpaper in all the cubicles at the six months

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defect out of the eight cubicles six of them had had the wallpaper peeled off in the cubicles

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because they had a bet going and in the gents nothing had been touched it was as if we had

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just done it so the ladies were worse in that sense than the men like 100% and we'd done

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theirs even prettier and lovely but they had a bet going to he who could get the most wallpaper

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off in one go which was so bizarre never seen that before but yeah I think but gender neutral

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in pubs I've all the pubs that I've done have gone absolutely no way I've not seen it go

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into a pub yet really and nor has the discussion for that DDA toilets is a must-have the only

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instance is when we haven't been able to put that in as if it's a listed building and structurally

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there is just no way without causing damage to that pub if you're working on a pub that

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isn't listed doesn't have a DDA it really needs to have a DDA toilet everybody needs to be able

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to go to the toilet and I think that is the definite in pubs the unisex toilets I've had

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that in a calf once but that's because they were limited on space so they had five sets of unisex

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toilets but that was a calf that was not a pub and I don't see it being done in a pub anytime soon

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maybe a bistro pub or something that's trying to be a bit different but a traditional pub

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I would say no they would want to keep that separate I did the White Heart in West Mersey

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recently and they've I think they've gone for a bit of everything yeah they've gone for gender

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neutral and male and female yeah and because the guy who owns it I also own the Church Street Tavern

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and Colchester and they they've got quite a few gender neutral toilets in there yeah but yeah

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but yeah no that was quite a thing for them yeah and that's that's a pub but it doesn't really look

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like a pub anymore it's more of a bistro restaurant a bistro restaurant yeah which I tell yeah yeah

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yeah I think traditional pubs and also because a lot of the time these projects are budget led

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and if you've got existing toilets existing gents existing ladies it's going to cost more

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to rearrange that to make it into unisex than it is to just refer what you've got as existing

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so it's funny isn't it some there a lot of the time they're like either side of the bar as well

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like they're not together yeah that's so frustrating and a lot of the time I've had that on a recent

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one in Stockfold where the gents toilet was in the ladies sort of dining area so that then all of the

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men had to come from the sports area which we were discussing before the right hand side of the pub

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was gents and the left hand side family and dining and the gents had to go from the darts area all the

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way through to go to the other end of the dining so in that factor we actually did you swap them

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yeah we used the budget in the right way to make sure that that was the right way around because

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it just wasn't working in this dining area if you've got men going out for fags and then going to

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toilet and it just doesn't give the right vibe but you do have to work with what you've got

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I think unisex toilets could work in the future I don't think men are as as dirty as you would

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maybe think they would be all of the gents toilets other than the smell are normally just as clean as

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the ladies they do say I have been in way too many gents toilets so bad isn't it like yeah yeah and

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always that dreaded having to go in and take photos after four work purposes to look at the tiles

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um to knock on the door and just check that there's no men in the urinals because that's never

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happened to me touch wood to this day and I do not want that to ever happen I think the other thing

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with the toilets is is that that with urinals you can actually get more toilets in for a space

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and that works really well in terms of maximizing the space yeah whereas you don't you know you

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can't do that with a woman's toilet so it's kind of like how do you how yeah changing it is more

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yeah more expensive which I guess is a good point as well for anybody that is looking to change

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toilets or alter it it's definitely worth looking at building regulations because for pubs and

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restaurants and bars you need to have a certain percentage of urinals and sit downs for the gents

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and to the ladies depending on the percentage of male and female in that pub so if somebody's

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going to knock out some toilets and theirs definitely look into how many you need to put

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back in because you could be in trouble if you decide to drop out two urinals and you're not

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covering the amount of people that are in that pub because the amount of times I've done the

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maths on that just to check we can actually do it because that will bite you in the butt otherwise

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it's section m isn't it of the building control good memory I think it might be yeah yeah I'm

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not sure good memory yeah no I think it's section m or you just you would just consult with um

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building control officer wouldn't you yeah if you can do it if in doubt keep what's there as

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you system as the best you can um and if you can't like you said contact somebody from building

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control to advise you on what you can and can't do um because you don't want to be tripped up

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or something like that and having to redo it which is not good for anybody no

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welcome back to the interior design podcast hello there um we've just been talking about how we're

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both from Essex yes though if you don't like an Essex accent it's not that it's not the same for

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you and so Erin I'm going to question um if somebody's designing their own pub and they

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can't afford to use a designer they don't want to and they've got a bit of an there's no flair

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what would you say were the most important things that they need to consider when they're designing

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their own pub I think the difference with pub design in comparison to maybe like restaurants

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or other sort of more modern buildings pubs traditionally I would work with the existing

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fabric of the building so if you've got a lovely pub it's going to have columns beams and keep the

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structure of it the same because that is the personality of that building and I think that's

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one of the reasons I love working with pubs because you can morph your design around what's

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there which is fun in my eyes I think that's a great thing to be able to do so if you've got

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your entrance but you've got this column that you're not too sure about but you can't take it away

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because the roof will fall down um use that put something around it mesh planting artwork wallpaper

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make it a good thing of the pub rather than trying to take it away when you can't physically do that

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and I think especially I've worked on quite a lot of um listed buildings in the past and I think

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that's been rammed into my head because of that with if you've got a listed building grade two

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I've only ever worked on one grade one um which was quite interesting you could say um you can't

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change the fabric of the building without getting permission so it's a challenge to work around what

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you've got as existing but if you try and have fun with that and try and use it to your advantage so

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yes that column or that beam or we've we've um put planting over things that other people try and

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ignore and not not have there but that's the best thing of the pub isn't it that it is existing

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pubs are traditional and yeah I could go on a tangent of how pubs are the best design that

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you could do because it's the British history isn't it yeah I think it's really fascinating

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how pubs have like the journey of pubs over the years because you've had it's where people gather

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yeah like it's always been where people gather and like even some you know now some pubs are

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getting turned into Indian restaurants but people are still gathering yeah there you know and it's

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all kind of morphed into something different but the traditional pub is supposed to have

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wonky walls and absolutely columns and things in funny places because it's been added to for so many

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so many times over the last hundred years and all probably hundred years they they get absolutely I

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think that if you if I work into a pub as a brief and I see beams or I see just the original bones

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of it it that excites me I find that quite fun to play with rather than having just an empty box

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because they're I always think they're most challenging so actually look at your pub see

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what you've got and think we can use this column or beams or anything like that to make an area

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out of this and then add a screen in or something to make that element you can't remove something

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that's good because that's the great thing about pubs I think that you can change your floor finish

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and everything like that but you can't change the bones so you've got the bones of the building

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which is the skeleton we've got the heart which is the bar and then everything else that's coming

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off of it you're building like it is a person in that pub I guess but I'm a bit passionate about it

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so it's lovely and I was working with one of the big pub groups a few years ago and we designed

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a template for 250 pubs I can't remember what what they thought it was called but one of the

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things that we really focused on in that template was the soul of the pub yeah and this and this

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sort of what makes that pub yeah what it is and it would it would be different in every single

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place you go because it's like the soul of it's like a community isn't it yeah I think that's the

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challenge so we're working on a brand at the moment where we lead designers and we did it

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in the first pub which was a certain shape certain size and then to put that design into other pubs

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is the challenge that's where us as designers come in to help with that space planning more with

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templates because it's not a one-off you've got to do what you've done on this other site which is

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only 50 covers 50 people that can sit and dine in there in comparison to 100 so it's a challenge on

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our part but you again you can have fun with that and sort of area the way that you want it to be

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but I think if you've got a one-off just have fun with your pub basically and don't just push the

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boundaries as best you can because at the end of the day it's not the best thing to have to redecorate

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a wall but it is just redecorating a wall so if you want to push boundaries and try I would say

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do it because the worst that's going to happen is that you're going to have to paint over it again

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but at least you've tried because otherwise you'll never push boundaries to see how great your

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original idea would have been I think one of the things that I'd probably say is that you

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you want to look at the local community and like almost tap into what's that about like things like

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art and you know if you've got local artists or like that kind of thing I think that if you

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if you tap into that community that's what will draw people in absolutely it's site specific

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isn't it yeah definitely and that's kind of what I do when I'm doing a project is kind of really

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try and go what's the personality of this place like what goes on here and you know who's

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who's standing at the bar do we need like a chair for bob who's always there you know and

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and that kind of thing and just making sure that you're accommodating the end user yeah absolutely

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because I think one of the first things we do on a brief on any of these projects is speak to the

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person that's running it and a lot of the time that gets sort of gets overlooked and it shouldn't

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so if it's not been if they've not been included within the brief I'll always have a chat with the

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person that's running it at that time because they will tell you the ins and outs of what the

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issues are what people are coming in now if you need to change it to a new clientele that will

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also help you with that too because you'll know if there's dodgy people coming in from so and so but

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they will congregate around this area so how can we make this area better and how can we draw the

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right people into here but I think that is something that's always kind of as a as a project team

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we need to deliver something they need to run it so we can deliver the best thing ever but without

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that person running it it's never it's not going to work it can't be a successful business yeah

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yeah you always say that that you you there's three elements to a hospitality business

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there's the design which we can do there's the service and then there's the offering like the

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food or the drink and and if you you get all three right you've got a successful business yeah but

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the frustrating thing for us is like we can get one third of it right and make that look beautiful

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but you've got you've got to have the rest of it you know and absolutely that's where we trust the

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clients doing what they're doing right because I don't envy anyone trying to recruit because I'm

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all for the pretty bits but recruiting staff and everything is a whole kettle of fish really yeah

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take my hat off to everyone who runs a pub a lot of my family have run pubs yeah so yeah they know

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how hard work it is yeah how much hard work it is yeah absolutely but I think the design side of

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things is just have fun with what you're doing if you're working for a client listen to your client

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and also I think what is also overlooked as probably one of the most important cogs in the

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whole situation is the contractor as a designer I'm not embarrassed to say I will take their advice

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if they're advising me on something and they know more about it than I do I will take their advice

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and I will draw up my detail and say this is what I want and if they say but you're going to get

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from A to B a lot quicker if we do it this way fantastic thank you of course less yeah

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yes or yeah collaborate with them work with them they know what they're talking about too hopefully

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a lot of the contractors I work with do know what they're talking about and we trust each other and

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we have that great relationship so trust their experience and use it to your advantage because

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I use that all the time I will detail everything up if they say oh that's fabulous I'm like brilliant

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great job I didn't need your help but if I do need their help then take it there's we're a team at

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the end of the day that's the way I like to look at it that Clive and us as designers contractors

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QS everybody within making that project work is a team we all want the same outcome so work together

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yeah I used to work on the manufacturing side so I used to work for a manufacturer who built bars

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and waiter stations and things and I used to work with a lot of designers and that was my biggest

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thing was a lot of designers used to be I want it how I want it and I don't care how much it costs

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and it'd be like well actually if I make it out of this material instead of that material it's

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going to cost you less because I've got that in stock and I've paid I've bought that in bulk so

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I can get that at a better cost yeah and that kind of thing and I think I think you have to

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consult with the contractors to get the best result because of that and the best price yeah

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and I think in hospitality a lot of these pub sites whether or not it's a full refurbishment

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or if it's a sparkle they're quick jobs so we've got sites that are three weeks full refurbishment

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pergola outside toilets being done if I'm honest I have no idea how the guys actually pull it off

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I would not be able to do it myself there's no denying that I can hardly decorate my living room

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in three weeks so work with them in the hospitality industry in pubs and restaurants it's so fast pace

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if they've got a better a to b than you don't be too proud because all it's going to do is trip

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everybody up so work with them and I think they always appreciate it more they might talk behind

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the mac who knows I'm a designer so but I think all in all they would like it more as well if you

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work with them yeah for sure so yeah obviously don't let them change your design I think that's a

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given as a designer you want it how you want it but if they've got an easier way to do it more

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cost-effective quicker way to do it work with them so we touched on accessibility earlier

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and I'd like to sort of expand on that I used to know a lady who was

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the owner of a company called draft who was a charity for disabled people and she said to me

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that 30 percent of the trade 30 percent of people who go out and eat are disabled or they know or

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they're very close to somebody who's disabled or with limited ability so if you have a pub or a

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restaurant that is accessible and that you're not making it difficult for it to be accessible

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because there's legislation and there's there's making it easy yeah you will increase your

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business by 30 percent absolutely and what's your take on that I think you want everything

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every person should have the ability to have the same experience as everyone else I think that

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disabled people people with pushchairs as well because a lot of time if there aren't ramps

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there's a lot of steps it's also difficult for families to get in and out so I think trying to

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make it as easy as possible for everyone to experience the same thing is the end goal

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I think it's absolutely a must have and I most of my clients feel the same way as well so any

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way that they can to improve that for the customers like putting ramps in the front section or making

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sure that they have access to the garden the only issues that we have is normally enlisted

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buildings but there's always ways around it and also planners do also want the same thing

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they do so work with them to get that it would just be a longer process you'll have to do drawings

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and details and whatnot but they also want that to be accessible for everybody so I would absolutely

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say if you don't have a ddo toilet if you don't have a ramp to get inside you need to be thinking

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about how to do that and how to to make it so everyone can enjoy it basically and I think it's

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from from a business perspective yeah it's the right thing to do in terms of profitability as

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well like you can make sure that if Aunt Nellie's coming out for dinner with the family of 10 we've

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got to go somewhere that's accessible you're going to get that family of 10 come to you if you if you

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if you've got that accessibility yeah and I think some some situations where we've been tripped up

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in the past is that we've got dining spaces but then as I said before mid-type furniture works

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really well to give like an in-betweeny between comfortable but also not so far down that you're

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sitting on a dining table just be very aware of the fact that disabled people can't sit at those

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so we got tripped up once before where we had two of those within the dining area we ended up swapping

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them out for dining tables so that there was more options for the staff to be able to seat

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people that were in a wheelchair which at the time of drawing you're thinking about how it works

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people walking past it so yeah we we get tripped up as well and then we get reminded on making sure

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that you do have enough dining tables for people to sit at because we can get ramps in do the toilets

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but if you don't have anywhere for them to go so there's no spare tables then you're kind of

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tripped up on that as well so just be aware of I suppose like the way to kind of stop being tripped

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up on that is to ask someone like if you're in a if you're in a pub and you're designing it yourself

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if you've got customers who have got limited abilities then ask you know ask them and say

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what do you need and what what can we do and sometimes if you haven't got the space to do a

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disabled toilet you can just put some accessible things into a toilet you might not have the space

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to do I mean you need a 1500 turning circle don't you for a disabled toilet with a

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wheelchair yeah and the door needs to be larger as well so there's a lot of factors to but if

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you're in a listed building and you can't necessarily do that or you haven't got the funds or you know

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you know it's not practical to do that you can still have a sink with a lever on it and a handle

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with a lever on it you can have the door opening outwards yeah you can have bars you can have a

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sink in the toilet you know and all of those things it's not just people I'm a massive advocate of

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like disabled toilets because it's not just people in wheelchairs who use them it's people with

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coloscopy bags yeah I'm not even going to try and say it I know what you mean as well and but you

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know they need a sink because they need to empty the bag and clean themselves and there's people

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who got you know visually impaired so they need to have those things and I just think that that so

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many people go oh we haven't got room for a disabled toilet and they just don't do anything

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yeah I think that it's good it's really really important to have that nod absolutely I think in

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today's day and age everybody is very much of an equal we want everyone to be the same so if you're

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not giving them the options of being able to like you say get to a sink without having to be in a

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public space almost because it is in a toilet if you've got a full toilet that's not very nice

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things for you to have to do you just want to make it equal for everybody really yeah sorry I

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went off on a little run yeah I forgot what my brain was trying to say um I wanted to ask you

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about your take on alcohol because oh I think that the fact that people are drinking less

398
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,840
has had an effect on pubs it's your take on it interesting I must admit I think because my

399
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,040
generation we are definitely still drinkers for sure but you do see more young people

400
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:48,960
the millennium yeah through lockdown and their socializing is so different to what our socializing

401
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:55,920
was back then um that the young places they need activities like a beer pong table or something for

402
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,800
them to stay whereas when we went out to bars and things like that you would just be going there for

403
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:06,240
the drinks so and I definitely think there's also going down the route of the zero percent um

404
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:11,760
people are a lot more sensible than they used to be um it's interesting I don't think alcohol's

405
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:18,480
ever going to stop in the UK I think beers and ales and everything like that is still very strongly

406
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:25,600
led but also yeah we we did put in one of our projects we did have one of them cocktail pumps

407
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,400
and it didn't actually go down as well as we thought it would um because people like to see

408
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:36,160
your cocktail get made yeah so then that also is the difference whereas I see people who are

409
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,480
some people would like it as quick as possible but actually we found no they like to see that

410
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,520
cocktail get made and all of the bits and bobs get put into it I mean I am a drinker so I

411
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,760
can't say too much about it really I'd like a bottle of wine I think you're right though you've

412
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,760
touched on like um the competitive socializing thing haven't you because there's a massive

413
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,800
industry where there's acts throwing and darts yeah the interactive darts which should be that

414
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,560
would be a thing yeah and there's so much of that that's coming through and that they're going into

415
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:11,680
pubs aren't they yeah um yeah yes it's really interesting how how the yeah how the social scene

416
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:18,240
is changing definitely especially in student areas like the student pubs the pubs that we work on in

417
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:22,800
student areas are very different to what we do elsewhere and that's because we needed a gathering

418
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,600
spot but for them to do stuff at the same time um which wasn't so much of the priority I don't

419
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,960
think even five years ago wasn't so much the priority because they would then go off to cups

420
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,680
now we want to keep them in that pub so to keep them in that pub you give them the same thing a

421
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:46,720
club can do or yeah just keep them busy really whilst they're drinking um but I can't say I've

422
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:51,840
actually done one of the interactive darts since putting them in the pubs however much I could have

423
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,360
fun with that was shuffleboards as well which we've been putting in I have played on a shuffleboard

424
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:02,320
that is a bit fun but yeah I need to do that look on the bucket list shuffleboard

425
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,520
yeah they take up a lot of room but they are fun

426
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,800
okay so next question how would you advise someone to use colour

427
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:23,280
interesting I think um colour is so important within a pub the decorations can make or break

428
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:29,600
the atmosphere that you put into a pub for sure if you're looking for an area that feels more

429
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,040
comfortable and cozy then you want to be like be bold use them dark colours on the ceilings on the

430
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:42,320
walls like patterned wallpapers on the walls as well but if you're looking for something that is

431
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:49,680
more airy than light colours and then have a pop of like teal or pink or orange and just be bold

432
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:57,040
with it and if your bar which is the heart of the bar which I keep saying um if that is already

433
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,640
decorated then choose your colour wisely because that is what's going to draw the eye so if you

434
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,120
want it to be muted it's not going to be seen as much so we've been putting in mustards and

435
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,320
and brighter colours onto the bar because that is where we want to draw the eye and also follow

436
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,840
fashions because they change so frequently if you look at five years ago stuff red started coming

437
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:24,080
back in again and there was greys everywhere and that's not the case at the moment so just

438
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,320
look into what's working in that area and what type of fill you want and what type of reference

439
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,440
house you want to use because my friend is definitely pinterest and I'm sure a lot of

440
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,680
designers say the same get those images down have a look at what it looks like and be bold

441
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,240
I would say be brave yeah dark colours I think are working fabulously at the moment

442
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:49,360
and I think dark colours on the ceiling in the right location are great they give a different

443
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:56,400
feel altogether they could change the vibe of that pub completely yeah but then on the flip

444
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,360
side if you think you've made a mistake and it's your pub at the end of the day it's one

445
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:09,440
it's just paint there's no walls that have come down for it so it is just paint so it can be

446
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:15,760
painted over if you need to go back to something else with colour the choice of colour is different

447
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:21,920
to what you'd use in your home if you're using light blues and cold colours in your home that

448
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:27,280
might feel quite cold in a pub it might not so it just use it again working with the fabric of the

449
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:33,360
building but if you're using musters which is all happy and cheerful in my view you could use that

450
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,480
in your home but in a pub it's going to give off a different vibe isn't it but and pinks are

451
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:44,240
coming into pubs a lot more and I love it I think it is feminine but men love it too so it's a lovely

452
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:52,080
colour and the sort of dried plaster look is I'm all for that but yeah just using the right colours

453
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:58,560
for what you want red is warm in I would feel when the pub sort of side of things and if you're going

454
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:07,200
to put in black use it sparingly or depending on how you want to yeah what vibe you want to give it

455
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,040
yeah what vibe you want to give off for sure black black beams I've done black ceiling before but

456
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,560
that's because we had cable trays all the way along we wanted just to hide the ceiling so it

457
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,640
was a really tall ceiling so we just blacked it all out you can do that tall ceiling can't it doesn't

458
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,600
really bring it down does it yeah and that it did work because it hid everything

459
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:35,760
but it was black on the ceiling which is quite a lot I wanted to ask you about lighting what's

460
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:42,000
your take on lighting in a pub it's funny because as every as you think of everything

461
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:47,440
separately you think it's most important for sure and with lighting lighting is very important and

462
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:55,360
also how you control that lighting because in pubs I think wall lights are a must they make sure that

463
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,840
the lighting comes a little bit lower if you're trying to make it look even more intimate use

464
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,880
table lamps and standard lamps because then that pulls the light down more as well I do think

465
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,680
you want to be careful with how it's dimmed as well because I find we put in these lovely pendants

466
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:19,120
and it works with the it's not filament anymore because everything's led but that sort of warm

467
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:25,600
glowy lamp but if you've got somebody turning it down too low it's going to make everybody's eyes

468
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:31,280
squint so if there's a dimmer pack just make sure it's set at a point and put a little line if it's

469
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,840
one of the controlled ones and put a little line and where it needs to go and make sure you do that

470
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,880
at hand over so that then they know that's where it needs to be because otherwise you'll get it

471
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,760
really dark or on cleaner mode which is just everything as bright as anything and that changes

472
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,280
the vibe completely I think that's one thing that I see a lot of is that people don't get that

473
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:57,680
level and it's either too bright or too dark and I think the other way you could do it is on a

474
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,440
dimmer system so you have it all automatically set yeah day and night I think it's tiger mode

475
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,760
packs that I've used in the past which basically are just a button so you have like one two three

476
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:13,520
four and then that's cleaner mode morning mode day mode even and I've been on site for 15 hours

477
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,800
before setting that because it was in the peak of summer so I had to be there at the beginning

478
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,560
and there was very specific what they wanted so every few hours I had to say okay let's now

479
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:30,320
set the scene and set the scene up to that so let's drop it 10% and so you do need to make sure

480
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,840
that you've got the right electrician to be able to do that as well because they need to be able to

481
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,320
code it properly which I've been shown how it works before I cannot remember for the life of me so

482
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,120
but it is important and for that client especially in the evenings they wanted a mode

483
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,680
to be able to go from like standard evening to like intimate evening which I think we dropped it

484
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:55,520
down to like 20% and without the lamps that we had which were suitable which are leds

485
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,400
that wouldn't have been possible so also be very careful with what lamps you're using because that

486
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:06,880
will affect how far down your lights can go because if they're not the suitable leds to dimming

487
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,880
they'll flicker and then your issue will just be flickering lights so you have to have it higher

488
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:22,240
yeah yeah good advice thanks I really I really like using led strips like hidden led strips in

489
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:27,600
pubs because I think it just really creates a real intimate vibe and things like under the bar you

490
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,640
have to hide them though like oh it's my bugbear to see like little dots yeah absolutely and you

491
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,120
can actually see them you have to hide them behind something but yeah I think it just really does

492
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,960
things like back bar lighting and front bar lighting things like that I think it just really

493
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,880
gives it a good touch especially if you've got a really cool bar like an old kind of intricate

494
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,680
wooden bar or something like that I think that could be and you want to sell the product so as

495
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,640
as designers of the pub I don't get I don't get involved too much with what product they use

496
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,880
but you need to showcase it because if someone is going to be like oh my god I'm going to be

497
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,040
like okay so I'm going to showcase it because if someone walks if you want them to walk up to the

498
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,000
bar and see something and buy it then it needs to be lit up in the right way so always have

499
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,960
spotlights behind your bar shining down onto the product that they want to be selling because

500
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,160
there's nothing worse than going into the bar and squinting and not being able to see what's over

501
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:24,880
there we a lot of the time put in illuminated bottle steps I think that's almost just a standard

502
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,080
must-have in every bar that we do because it just gives that glow and again highlights what

503
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:37,040
you want to sell so and the led strips I'm a big fan and they've got color changing as well so

504
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,720
that's also a lot of fun it's good for things like football seasons yeah that you can change

505
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:47,840
the color for whatever whatever time of year is yeah absolutely absolutely and it's selling

506
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:54,560
what you want them to sell so as designers they want to sell product they if they are drinks led

507
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,440
pub their product is the most important thing if it's food as well then obviously that that's not

508
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:05,040
that's very much with the brand and and what they're doing for food but we can help sell the

509
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,080
products because we can illuminate it in the right way like you said so that then you can

510
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:15,840
put led strips on it or just draw the attention over there so that is their selling point that's

511
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:21,520
what they want to sell so focus on that not too much though don't go overboard

512
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:31,200
yeah that brings me nicely on to bar design oh yes fun one yeah um what would be your advice on

513
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:38,880
bar design so bar design is an interesting one very much speak to your client what does your

514
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:47,440
client want to gain from that bar um I've designed and drawn up a lot of bar details in the past and

515
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:53,200
if they need an ice well underneath that impacts the products you can put on the front if they need

516
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:59,680
to have a tall bottle fridge where does it need to be your client knows what they want to sell

517
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:07,280
use them to tell you what is needed and then use that in your design because with I could absolutely

518
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,920
draw five bar designs completely different but they might be better for different clients so

519
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:17,600
they need to instruct you on exactly what they need to gain from it and whether or not they want

520
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:23,360
to have a traditional one to counter so that's the brown board so timber underneath which would be a

521
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:30,800
traditional bar or if they want to go to more bar so more drinks bar which is stainless steel

522
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:37,280
so cost wise it's a lot more expensive but if they're doing cocktails and speed drinks for a

523
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,480
high drinking site it's very beneficial to go into stainless steel we don't do that very often it's a

524
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:49,920
lot more expensive it's not a traditional option but in bars it is so like drinking bars it is a

525
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,280
good route to go down because they've got like cocktail rails and speed rails and things to help

526
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:01,760
them and it's all in one hit so if you're designing a bar you can either have it so that it's a

527
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,480
the timber top and timber front and then open underneath for you to be able to have stainless steel

528
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,840
or a traditional bar would be that you've got partitions all underneath that bar counter so

529
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,640
that then you've got shelving throughout so it's completely two different ways to design a bar so

530
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:24,320
you need to know exactly what they want to gain from selling product at that bar you could get a

531
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,160
lot of advice from people as well though like with the stainless steel there's companies that do that

532
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:34,960
for a living so get advice and work with them i've only done one of those before and it was quite

533
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:41,680
expensive but it fit in perfectly under the bar and they built it to the tee so we just did one

534
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:49,120
for Chelmsford Theatre last year interesting and they had like five or five stations yeah so

535
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:54,240
and that's what kind of one of the things i always focus on is the stations like one person has got

536
00:47:54,240 --> 00:48:00,400
to serve and they need to i think what you've got to think about is they need to move as little as

537
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:06,000
possible so they can do their job properly yeah and so if they can stand in one place and serve

538
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,200
drinks and use the till and not have to walk very far yeah like whereas if you've got gin on one

539
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:17,520
side and tonic on the other side yeah that's just completely not practical exactly um so the

540
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,560
ergonomics of like what you're what you're actually what someone's actually doing is

541
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:28,960
behind that bar is so important absolutely yeah 100% because there you need to look at it as if

542
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:35,200
you are in that bar working and if it's not practical then you've not done the job properly

543
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,160
it needs to be practical they need to use it there's a funny thing with design is that obviously

544
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,640
you want it all to be about the design but if it's not functional then that's a failed design so you

545
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:50,880
need to have a really good balance on that it works both ways and and just for the sake of

546
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:57,280
um and just for information in case people don't know about bars you need to have a wash hand sink

547
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:03,520
basin in there and um a slop sink that's a must have you need to have two sinks behind it if you've

548
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,920
got a glass wash then that might have a sink alongside it but just for anybody that doesn't

549
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:14,880
know put sinks behind your bar they need it just the two just stop sinking a wash hand basin

550
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,560
is a must have behind a bar um it's needed i think with things like glass washers and stuff like that

551
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:28,240
you need to put glass washers where the drinks are cleared to in the bar and things like that isn't

552
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,600
yeah and also if you've got if you've got a coffee machine on the back fitting which is

553
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,480
a sort of standard practice really it's got to go somewhere if it's not got its own station elsewhere

554
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,600
put that in the dining end don't put that in sports ends the people in sports end don't want

555
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:51,920
a coffee so very much design it where you want to be selling it so your back bar yeah your back bar

556
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:58,000
you are limited on space so let's prioritise what goes where coffee needs to go in the dining area

557
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,160
where it's going to sell because it's pointless putting it in the sports area they're not going

558
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:07,440
to be interested um unless it's one in the morning they need a high pass for coffee

559
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:16,000
yeah yeah yeah well um what's your take on tills because i have this conversation with a lot of

560
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,760
people like and a lot of people go i must have the till on the back bar oh and i know right and

561
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,640
i've just had my client in limbopole street put the tills on the back bar and i'm going client

562
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,320
facing like client facing you have to have them on the front and they they're like no no no we have

563
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,960
to have them in the back so what that's what you're nodding saying no put them on the front right

564
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,160
definitely i i personally think your client your customer wants to see you and if they're handing

565
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,040
over their card they want to see you so i would absolutely always put on the front bar i'd understand

566
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:50,400
it because product on the front bar is a priority but i also think the biggest priority is your

567
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:57,680
your customer so i definitely think it's bizarre putting them on the back fitting and it's not very

568
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:03,040
tidy not very neat it's not a selling point so i wouldn't i wouldn't personally put it on the back

569
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:08,880
but i think as well for ergonomics because you're doing the till and then you're doing the drink

570
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:14,160
you're not kind of turning around and turning back and backwards and forwards and it's just

571
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:19,120
it doesn't make sense yeah absolutely i think the products on the bar it's obviously your hand pulls

572
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:26,400
and your tea bars and all of that but i think the selling the gins and the vodkas and the whiskies

573
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,480
and stuff like that on the back that's what they want to be looking at not at the till and then

574
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,760
seeing that the oh that person's name is so and so and you can see yeah they don't need to see that

575
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,800
yeah they did they and even that with tills you see a lot of the time that then surrounds got put

576
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,760
into a lot of tills on the front counter i don't like that i'm not a fan of that just have the nice

577
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,480
clean countertop within the till screen sitting on top and then everything else hidden below

578
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,280
so not a cutout not a cutout i'm not a fan of the cutout but that's just because it's so

579
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:02,080
it's so definite whereas look at the nice smooth bar top with then a till on the top

580
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:08,400
lovely but with a surround it's very much where this is a till location which it is but you don't

581
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:15,520
need to shout about it it's a function yeah yeah but yeah i'll definitely put it on the front

582
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:27,520
noted

583
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,800
so short break there welcome back to the interior design podcast um erin is kindly educating us all

584
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:48,160
about design and i'm putting my 10th and 15th too um next question what about flooring so as i've

585
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,680
said before every aspect seems to be really important and i i'm surprised we've left floor

586
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:59,840
until now to be honest because i actually think that's so um underrated people don't notice the

587
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:04,720
flooring so much but you can direct people with it um so as i've said before with the customer

588
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:10,960
journey if you're going from the entrance and you want them to walk to the bar tiled bar walk all

589
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:16,800
the way up to it that instantly gives people a pathway to get to that bar if you've not done

590
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,720
that and there's that just timber everywhere then you've not got like a clear direction

591
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,000
so you can use flooring to your advantage absolutely if you've got a dining area you need

592
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:31,120
it to be softer carpet i'm not the biggest fan of carpets they're so hard to choose they're

593
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:37,200
especially pub carpets they make me cry yeah absolutely there's never a perfect carpet for

594
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:43,600
a pub it's they all look fairly traditional but um you can find some so yeah carpets in the softer

595
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:51,680
areas and then absolutely must have hard floor in any drinking area or sports area um be careful

596
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,440
with what site you've got because they could be quite echoey i've had that in the past where it's

597
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:03,120
a definite rectangle and we've had to put rugs down um just to soften that so if you've got

598
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:09,680
issues with acoustics curtains blinds use fabric on chairs to try and knock out some of that like

599
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:15,520
echoing around um but yeah i think flooring is quite important and what kind of flooring would

600
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:21,360
you put generally in a pub timber if i could a lot of the time we use carndine as well so carndine

601
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:27,520
is definitely a go-to now they've got a great range um i'm not a seller of carndine i just like them

602
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,440
um i'm a massive fan of carndine yeah i think it's easy to put in as well and you can have a you need

603
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,760
to make sure you have a ply base but then that makes it level and then yeah then it works quite

604
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:43,040
well so i'll put timber floor in you can also get acoustic backed carndine as well if you've got

605
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,560
problems with sound absolutely yeah absolutely and then if you've got existing timber um just

606
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:54,960
lightly sand and restain or if you've got on if you've got a budget but you want to do real timber

607
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,440
engineered boards that will still be thick enough so that you can do a few sands over the next 10

608
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:08,240
years or so um just yeah i would say an engineered board or carndine is what we put in mainly if we

609
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:15,120
have the budget to use hardwood throughout we all would but it's all budget led um i would also say

610
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:21,360
i very much like a tire bar walk around um the bar i think it gives it a sort of like oomph that is

611
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,920
separate from everywhere else but if you look in a lot of country dog walking pubs there's a lot of

612
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:31,440
the time it's just timber everywhere and then that's that aesthetic so stick with your clientele what

613
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:38,160
works with that clientele if it's not a jazzy tiled floor don't put it in so work with what works for

614
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:45,600
the building um and outro floor in the disabled toilet is a must um i think that's some regulation

615
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:52,400
or possibly on that one or the vinyls slip ratings the regulation yeah start on 12 isn't it i think

616
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:58,080
so yeah yeah and that's a really good point about slip rating if you've got any high traffic areas

617
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:04,800
check your slip rating if it's a domestic tile don't use it use commercial tiles it's that they

618
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,360
are commercial for a reason so you need to make sure that people aren't slipping over or falling

619
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:15,440
over um and entrance matting is always a win because that is gonna stop it getting wet everywhere

620
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:21,360
else but yeah check your slip rating because you want it to have a higher slip rating um cover

621
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:28,400
yourself for sure amazing and furniture we haven't talked about very much either we haven't have we

622
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,800
it's yeah what would be your advice on furniture um depending on budget uh if you've got a lot of

623
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:42,320
existing i think previously you've spoken people about reusing um like items you can reuse refurbish

624
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,240
furniture for sure get it all picked up there's a lot of furniture companies that do do that and

625
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:53,200
then reupholster um i think just use your areas quite wisely when you're sorting out your initial

626
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,720
layout where is your dining height furniture where is your poser height furniture and then

627
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,600
we've been using a lot of mid height as well it's just the in between transitional areas not sure

628
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:10,240
it's it's it's too um high traffic for dining so put in a mid then it makes people comfortable

629
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:15,440
still they're not down in dining height when people are walking through them um and also

630
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:21,120
feature bits like fixed seating and banquet seating um wherever you can if you've got a dining area

631
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:26,960
you don't want it to look like canteen so use your area to if there's a length of fixed seating so

632
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:32,160
you can have a nice fabric on the back fantastic put that in because that can give you flexibility

633
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:36,240
of putting the tables next to each other but also gives you a feature um because otherwise you're

634
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:42,480
going to end up with a canteen that has just loads of furniture loose within it so zone areas for

635
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,600
sure so on the seat of the fixed seating you'd put like a faux leather or something like that

636
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:53,200
would you yeah faux or real leather tough yeah hard wearing you need it to be i think it's over 100

637
00:57:53,200 --> 00:58:00,240
um i've forgotten the word rub test martindale rub test yeah and also everything within a um

638
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,640
within the commercial it needs to be fire rated as well so don't use domestic fabrics

639
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,920
use commercial fabrics they're again there for a reason so and they've got the rub tests as well

640
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:17,600
so check the rub test if it's over 100 000 brilliant if it's lower use it sparingly but on

641
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:24,080
the backs of chairs i've put some 30 000 in before because they're pretty um but don't use it places

642
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,160
that people are going to sit down it's going to wear really quickly so use the right fabrics for

643
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:32,960
the right areas so that's a really good point i've done a podcast with them james from sunbury fabrics

644
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:38,000
which have been released yet um which will have been released by the time this one comes out

645
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,400
um so if anyone's interested in upholstery fabrics we are going to be doing a curtain

646
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:48,480
fabric one as well so all of the bs standards are all going to be in that fantastic and they've got

647
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,040
quite a lot of the um i forget what it's called but the stain resistant ones which i will say to

648
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:59,680
sunbury are good because the aqua clean they are they they could almost have a bomb hit them and

649
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:04,400
they will last and not i haven't tried and tested all of them but i can say that the ones where i've

650
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,920
had a few stains on it and they can be soaked and watered off so it's it's got like a vinyl on the

651
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,920
back not that i'm selling them but there's like a vinyl on the back so that it doesn't seep in and

652
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:19,520
the stain doesn't stay so yeah definitely um think about what fabrics you're using for sure

653
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:24,400
and styles of furniture if you're going to use 1940s chairs that's very traditional

654
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:29,840
pub furniture um if you're going to use modern stuff again just think of your clientele who's

655
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:36,800
going to be going in there colors of furniture too um so we could go on a long tangent i want to do

656
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:44,880
but if you're using like the light colors um that's going to be more dining a little bit more

657
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:51,760
um scandinavian and modern if you're using mid oak dark oak that is more traditional pub so and also

658
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:56,400
don't be afraid of using some paint on your furniture if you can do some rubbed off chairs

659
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,920
here or there that gives it breaks it up a little bit as well you can refurbish stuff can't you

660
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:07,600
it's like you can take a table that's an old-fashioned pub furniture table old-fashioned

661
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:12,800
table yeah um and you can paint just the base can't you and then change the top and just put a new

662
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,880
top on it and just completely refurbish it those bases are really expensive and actually most of

663
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,880
them are really good quality yeah um massive hammer yeah the other the other thing i'm a fan of is

664
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,920
putting a pose like poser table near the bar because a lot of people gather at the bar don't

665
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,840
they so if you've got a poser table just off the bar that kind of stops that crowd at the bar so

666
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:38,160
people can still access the bar to get a drink yeah whereas if you've not got that those kind

667
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:44,640
of things next to the bar you tend to have a bit of a gathering yeah people hang around a bit to

668
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:50,480
bit more yeah and you kind of it kind of yeah absolutely i would always put higher furniture

669
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:55,200
close to the bar so it kind of frames it a little bit because you do want people and you don't want

670
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,280
big empty spaces because you say you're going to have loads of people just standing around and then

671
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:04,560
it blocks your view so if you've got poser tables sort of staggered around it brilliant because then

672
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,720
that's going to get people congregate around those tables rather than what you want everyone else to

673
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:14,960
look at which is the bar so i think that's a really good point that keep high around the bar more so

674
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,640
and nobody wants to sit on a dining table right next to a bar where everyone's standing

675
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:23,120
it's not comfortable you're going to have people looking over you and it's going to feel quite

676
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:29,120
uncomfortable in a lot of old traditional pubs they do have that sometimes but it's just yeah

677
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:34,080
that's not something i would design in for sure i have to keep mid and poser to around the bar

678
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,800
and then have the dining area comfortable so people can feel safe when they're eating rather than

679
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:45,920
somebody looming over them yeah cool there's so much we could talk about i know i could go on all

680
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:52,800
day oh erin it's been so nice to have you here thank you so much for coming in as well we're

681
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,760
talking about doing on teams and everyone's like no i went to come so she's in the podcast studio

682
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:03,040
absolutely yeah thank you for having me yeah you're very welcome i hope that you guys have

683
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:08,800
got some benefit out of our conversation today and you've been educated a little bit about

684
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:15,600
pub design i hope this is helping helping you guys learn a bit more and we hope that you like the

685
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,560
podcast absolutely sorry if i ramble on i'm a bit passionate about it but just have fun with it

686
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:27,200
this is one of the best jobs you can have because people will appreciate what you do so just have

687
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:35,200
fun with it absolutely and go be bold and yeah you'll get some great responses from that i would

688
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:40,480
say so thank you for having me it's been a pleasure thank you for listening to the interior design

689
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:45,920
podcast um if you like this episode please like and subscribe and share with anyone you think

690
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:52,320
might learn from this our facebook and instagram pages are interiordesign.podcast if you want to

691
01:02:52,320 --> 01:03:00,080
follow us we're on apple and spotify and lots of other ones so if you are on a forum that you don't

692
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:05,920
normally go to have a look for us elsewhere and we are pretty much everywhere thank you very much

693
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:32,160
for listening and we'll be back soon thank you very much