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Hello and welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. This is episode three and today

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we have got James Lewis coming in from Sunbury Fabrics to educate us about

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upholstery fabric. So we're going to have a quick catch up for the week

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first. Just me and Cheryl before we bring James in because I think he's

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waiting outside you know. So Cheryl you've been on holiday? I've been on holiday for two

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weeks which was lovely and now back straight into the thick of it. So I am

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currently working on a project in London which is a salon and so that's

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exciting. I've done all of the kind of legwork before I went away, draft, general

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arrangements and stuff but now I kind of get into the nitty-gritty of it really.

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So yeah I've got that one to sink my teeth in but what about you? Oh God

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we're so busy. Chinese floating restaurant in Canary Wharf. I'm project

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managing it I'm not designing it. All of the plans in Chinese? And we've had to

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translate them all and I thought oh yeah that'll be easy I'll just put it through

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a translation document Google. No it's not as been as easy as that. So we had to

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go into cabinet and edit every single annotation on probably about a hundred

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drawings. I was like oh I wasn't quite aware. So that's just project management you're doing on that one is it? Yeah but the other jobs we're doing

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we're doing some really cool projects in central London at the moment we've got

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three all owned by one person they're all really cool high-end places. We've

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got one that's right near Liverpool Street which has got five floors and

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they just want to redo the whole thing. And it's gonna be awesome it's

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gonna be like a garden inside on the ground floor and then it's gonna be sort

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of going up into like this beautiful teal. Oh that's beautiful. Amazing. So I've done all the mood boards and as you know I love them. So I've got my favourite bit done now I've got to do all the hard work. So yeah I'm just

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loads of different things and project managing a little cafe in Litchfield

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designed it about two years ago and it's still going on. It's usually the way isn't it?

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Nearly finished but the list we're doing is a listed building so it's taking ages. And yeah I've got a residential in Mersey. Oh amazing. She's lovely. I just got um so I think I might have

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mentioned in previous episodes that I was helping out a friend with their

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extension and so it's all done and they're officially moved back in so I

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popped around there a couple of days ago just to kind of see you know to see it

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kind of in all its glory. Is it all finished? Completely done? Yeah pretty much yeah yeah and they've got you know they're starting to put all their furniture back in and all of their pictures going back up on the walls and it just makes like it yeah it just makes my heart like I just feel really proud. I'm just really proud of it and they love it and it's just nice it's so nice when a project takes you know I mean they've been that build's been going on for a

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year but the actual project's probably been bubbling for a good couple of

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years I've been involved with it with them and it's just so nice to get in and

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see you know their stamp on it and all of their stuff going back in and just how

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happy they are being in there you know like using the kitchen using the space

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how it was supposed to be used and it just makes me so happy. It makes me

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really really happy. You should be really proud. Yeah that's cool it's really cool. Cool so yeah so we're gonna go and get James.

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Yes and let's learn about some upholstery and some Sunbury fabrics. Let's do it.

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So hello James. Hello Hayley how are you? Welcome to the interior design podcast. Thank you.

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Delighted to be on. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Disappointed about how wet the

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summer's been. Very depressing but yeah I'm good I'm good. In my quiet month August is

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always quiet for us so it's perfect time for me to come along. Everyone's on holiday aren't they? I know and also the mills shut down.

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All the supplies are closed so it's a very quiet month for us. So this is a welcome break for the monotony.

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Welcome welcome. Thank you for having me I'm really excited. So have you been on holiday this year? Not yet.

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I'm going in two weeks three weeks for my anniversary first anniversary to Italy for three nights which would be lovely and then it's my dad's 60th and he's taking us all to Portugal for a week.

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Oh wow. All eight of us. Thanks dad. With couples yeah yeah first family holiday in a while so we'll see how that goes.

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Which would be nice yeah but apart from that no no not yet not yet not luxury not leisure anyway.

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James so James hello. Hello Hayley. What are you going to educate designers about today?

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Oh so about fabrics I don't really think I should do anything more than fabrics I don't really know much else about I know what I sell.

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So you work for Sunbury Fabrics? I work for Sunbury Design yes. Sunbury Design. Did it used to be called Sunbury Fabrics? No it was called Lewis & Co Fabrics Limited which is still our official name and then we were called Sunbury Fabrics as well Lewis & Co Sunbury Fabrics.

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So we started in 1947 1948 I should say and the building it was in was called Sunbury House which is why the Sunbury name comes from and then we switched to Sunbury Design before I worked before I worked for the company about 15 10 15 years ago.

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Have you worked for the company for 15 years? No I've worked for the company seven years. I was going to say I'm the bottom of the world.

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No no no you were my first ever call though. Really? Did you know that? No way. I remember yes. I was you my first ever ever visit as a customer. Oh my god. Yeah and I left wanting to quit no.

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That's when you did your like the supplier days do you remember? Yeah I used to have a whole day. The whole supplier days I had like an hour. Back to back. Yeah.

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But I do remember you ordering me loads of samples. Oh this job is easy. All these designers they love it and it's not always that easy. But no so I worked for seven years and yeah we changed we changed to Sunbury Design about 10 15 years ago because it sounds more in keeping with the market we work in.

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And we work with the hospitality design industry so the Sunbury Design part is where it comes from. So yes. It's very niche. What the fabric world. Yeah.

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The hospitality design industry is quite niche. There are lots of different regulations and something you don't really think about until you work in it. It's you don't really think about the chairs you sit on until you work in that industry or the curtain in your hotel room for example until later.

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And then all the regulations and all sorts of things. So you just before you came on when you were saying I was saying to you we want to teach interior design interior design is something and like a little bit like a CPD. Yeah.

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And you were like no we don't call it CPD we call it lunch and learn. Yeah. So I know in the workspace industry which we don't do loads in they do use them they do say you see CPD a lot more.

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It's a car. Yeah it's more of an architect which is why it's got into the workspace environment because they do a lot of architectural stuff. But in the hospitality side it's generally lunch and learns.

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That's what they call it. I guess it's less formal and it comes over from the states because in the states they do big things on lunch and learns they love a lunch and learn out there which is and obviously we follow we follow America.

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Generally you pay 500 pounds 500 dollars which is basically 500 quid now isn't it. So yeah when I go out to the states and host lunch and learns there there are you have to the big design agencies or big cruise liners who we work with they they have approved

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suppliers. So you can only work with these suppliers and it's generally around 500 dollars. Yeah. So it's cool. It's good fun.

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It's tiring but it's very very good. I go I've started since covid I didn't really go before covid since in the last 18 months I've gone four or five times for work. I'm going again in October.

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Yeah it's fun. But you're not on your own not with your family. It can be a bit it can be a bit lonely but every day is different.

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You're not sitting in an office all day. It is a perk of the job. It is a perk of the job. So what are you going to teach into design. So I will talk about the regulations of fabrics.

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So durability fire rating you need those sort of things really.

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Yeah. Well try and teach you James. OK. Do you teach us. So with hospitality fabrics which is what our bag is in every poultry fabric has to be something called Crip 5 which is the fire rating.

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It ensures the fabric is durable enough and has back coating on it that stops the fire from spreading sufficiently and you need that in a hospitality environment because of when there's kitchens and things like that and more people.

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So those are that's the legal requirement for that. So just just to explain. So BS 5 8 5 2. Yeah. Is sick called cigarette and cigarette and match which is domestic.

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So for domestic fabrics you only need cigarette and match. But for hospitality you need Crip 5.

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Two different tests. Cigarette matches a cigarette and a match test in a lab. And then a Crip 5 test is a tiny little wooden crib. Do my job for me. Correct. Sorry darling.

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No. Excellent. You're saying it much better than I am. But that's basically what happens. Yeah. Yeah. So they are two completely different tests. Generally Crip 5 is obviously higher than cigarette match.

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So you don't. It is accepted in this in the domestic world as well. So if your stuff is Crip 5 it can also be used in the domestic environment. But if your stuff is not Crip 5 and it's only cigarette match you have to get it treated up.

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Which is why. And you need that from a building control perspective. Yeah. So yeah. Legality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean things have got a lot tighter since Grenfell as well.

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I mean we only ever supplied Crip 5 cut stuff anyway. But I think the industry has got much stricter since then. The fire.

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The fire. There's fire officers are much hotter on it. Quite rightly obviously. But yeah everything we supply is Crip 5 as standard. It's not a mark because it's not worth us. It's quite costly to stock two different types of things.

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So we can still supply into the domestic market which is originally what the company used to do. We used to do home stuff. But the domestic the contract market is our main bag.

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About 85 percent of it. Yeah. And then rub tests. Yes. Do you have any questions about rub tests before I begin on that. There's Martindale. Is there another one. So Martindale is the UK standard which is basically put on a machine and it goes up and down up and down.

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Is it not a figure eight. That is the Wiesenbeck which is what they use in America. They call them Wiesenbeck. That's the figure of eight. Martindale is the backwards and forwards backwards and forwards. And each Martindale stroke is like forwards and back. Is it forwards and back is one rub.

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Oh that's a good question actually. I believe so. Yes. Yes. And it will go with a textured weave. It will it will fail. The rub test will end when three when three break three weaves break. So I mean don't have a camera here.

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But if you see our key book there that makes 45000 rubs. Go back and forth and when three go that is when the fabric has. OK. Well not failed but that is the end of the rub test.

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With plainer fabrics it's a little tougher to see when it loses color. It starts to this this noticeable signs where which is why plain fabrics generally have a high rub test than textured fabrics because there's less wrong rest for the fabrics go wrong.

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So but the severe contract minimum use is 40000 rubs. But generally in our industry you don't we don't generally sell stuff less than 45000 and even now it's getting higher and higher and higher. We sell things.

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250. So we sell three four products three products 250000. I think also that you know when people think of rub count I mean you instantly think of you know the design industry you think of rub count as being when the product when the when the fabric fails

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and breaks. But actually as you just pointed out with some of the plainer less heavy with fabrics it isn't just about the product failing. It's about loss of color.

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The kind of the stretch. The wear and tear and things. Yeah which yeah. I think I mean I think it's such an important point that rub counts on fabrics because I think a lot of people a lot of designers maybe don't give it the thought that it actually really needs.

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So it is important. I think they can be a bit misleading at times because stuff can be 40000 rubs and that is absolutely fine. It's like more than fine and it will perform just as well potentially as a quarter of a million rub tests and also you know if you're in a hotel or a restaurant it's getting refurbed.

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If it's a high volume place it's getting refurbed fairly regularly so there's not even enough time for that fabric to even get to the point where it fails. But that's something that needs to be considered when selecting the right fabric for the job in terms of what that life cycle and the design is in terms of okay well you know how long are we talking before potentially there's a.

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And where it's being used if you're using it on a if using it on a seat pad that's obviously going to get far more use than a back of a chair back of a chair could literally last forever. Especially on the outer back. It's never it's never going to get any sort of it might get if it's in a restaurant I guess you might people like rubbing their hands on it or wiping.

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Yeah or maybe a way to spill a drink over or something like that but that's the worst it's ever going to get obviously a seat pad takes a lot more sort of abuse not abuse just durability yeah more wear so you've got to consider that which is why generally designers like yourselves will go for forever on the seat pad and then the decorative on the back.

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I don't use it because a lot of the decorative fabrics you can get are 30 40 thousand and actually putting that on the back of a chair is fine.

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Really cool designs and aren't very high. You kind of go I want to use that but actually if I just put it on the back it'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, because it's not getting anything there's nothing going to happen to it that's going to cause it to fail.

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Yeah, as I said the only thing that's going to work it might get stained and as long as it's cleaned properly, which is always an issue, then you're not going to have a problem. Yeah, so that's that the late the more important thing that's arisen in the last few years is everything we supplied nearly now has some sort of stain resistant finish on them.

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Because of the requirements in the industry they want their owners, you know, end users not even you guys is the your clients want their stuff to be easy to clean. You know what I've got a perfect example of that yesterday and it was one of your fabrics actually.

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Excellent. I can't remember which one it was it was one of the velvets. Madison. Madison, probably. Did you send me a Madison recently? Yeah everyone loves Madison so yeah yeah yeah yeah.

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And the client threw a glass of wine over the table. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it bubbled on the top right. Well, I don't know what happened initially, but after a little while, it just disappeared. Yeah, so that's what I was like this is amazing.

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He was like really worried about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and he did and he was like no, that's fine. So that's an example it's got stain resistant finish on it so the it will just bubble on the top. Although again, you don't necessarily need any sort of stain resistance on polyester fabrics because polyester isn't designed to be cleaned really easily.

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In reality, it will be fine with just a cloth and soapy water, but they I suppose clients want that extra security that extra knowledge, so you've got to make it essentially bomb proof. Yeah, not bomb proof because we can't protect against bombs.

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But hopefully, yeah, yeah, we'll let you know. Interesting story about that. We, you know, when there's a Salisbury poisonings. You remember the, yeah, yeah, yeah, the poisonings in Salisbury. So they put a photo on the restaurant it happened in and one of the in the photo was one of our fabrics, and I was like, do we are we against nuclear waste?

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Can we protect against nuclear waste? Yeah, so I don't know if that was the answer. I'm sure I'm sure they removed that fabric. I would have advised them to remove that. Yeah.

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So yeah, that's a very important point any sort of stain resistance. Our sort of revolutionary one was our AquaClean, which is one of which is one of these with the coolest thing about the AquaClean was that it is the stain resistance is built into the yarn of the fabric.

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So a lot, the majority of our products that have the stain resistance, it's made, it's added after the fabric is made. So the fabric is what is woven and then applied over.

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And then, yeah, yeah, exactly. Whereas on AquaClean, are you saying that the weave itself is treated? Yeah, the yarn. Yeah, the treatment, the technologies is injected into the yarn in effect. And that's what's so revolutionary about it.

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And what's great about it, you only need to clean it with cloth and water. So it'll take out by row. It'll take out coffee or take out ketchup or even take out European Sharpie.

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I think the most famous brand of like coating is like Teflon. Teflon. Yeah, and Scotchgard. Yeah. How does that compare to those kind of things?

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Well, AquaClean is the fact it's not a coating. That's the beauty of it. So Scotchgard and Teflon are coatings on top. Yeah, which are great. They perform brilliantly. A good amount better.

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It's part of the fabric. So whereas they, I mean, not now, I mean, much more, you know, more modern versions of these stuff last a lot longer.

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But, you know, the idea with the fabric, it won't go wear off because it's part of the fabric. It is literally in the yarn of the fabric and it's very green because you need to clean it with water. There's no other chemicals needed to clean it with.

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And yeah, it takes out by row, which is really cool. So we do exhibitions. You've seen my trick. You can you get people to draw their name on. We get bring a sample people write their name in by row and we can take it out with a cloth and water.

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So it's a it was a real revolutionary thing in the market. I didn't. We launched it just before I started. But, you know, we were getting orders left, right and center. And even now, our Napa range, which is everywhere.

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Yeah, everyone loves Napa. It's still our second off the bestseller and it's been out for 10, 10 years plus. It's just constantly. And that's called Vermillion Rubs actually. So that's the that's your faux leather, isn't it?

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No, it's like a faux suede. Oh, I know. I know. Yeah. It's like a bobble effect. Where is it? There you go. And you had seen it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's it's beautiful. It's a beautiful range.

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I specify some of that on Forest Holidays. Yes, I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I went into a care home a few weeks ago and they had it on everything. Yeah. Yeah.

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And it's just it's a really durable fabric. It will last forever.

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It's really authentic as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the nice thing about I think the Sunbury range is that they're, you know, on things like this faux suede and the faux leathers, they're, they're you can't really, I mean, really, you can't tell the difference, can you?

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No, I mean, we do sell leather as well, but people don't mean people just don't buy leather as much as they used to anyway. So that's where our faux leathers and our faux suede come in a lot more.

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And so on the Nappa and some of your other products, the AquaClean isn't across the board on your range.

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No, we have nine ranges where we have AquaClean. There's more coming out. Well, one's coming out very soon, then potentially two or three more coming out next year.

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No, it's not one because it's one supplier. You don't you never want to be tied to one supplier because it's always a risk for a business. You spread, you spread your risk really.

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And a lot, you know, every supplier has offered something different. So AquaClean obviously is fantastic. They produce great products and it's one of our better probably mill we do the most with.

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But then we've got our Madison where we that that mill we supply who supply all of our recycled fabrics from.

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I've written recycled. We are bringing out a recycled AquaClean soon as well. So yeah, watch this space should be cool.

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Yeah, I can see that. We're going to get a little tag soon, which will make it clearer that it's recycled.

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So that, yeah, so just the color of the holder. If you change that to a green or something.

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So, yeah, we like something we can look into to make it clearer what it is. So, yeah, recycled products are becoming much more of a thing in the industry.

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I don't know if you get asked it by clients a lot. Well, we touched on this a couple of weeks ago when we had Lewis in didn't we from Grower?

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We were talking he was talking about kind of cradle to cradle with the Grower product. You know, it's important, I think.

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And more and more people just becoming very aware of it as they should be. Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, I mean, so we only offer the recycled element right now.

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It's very difficult to have a recyclable contract fabric once you upholster it and it's put on the phone and all of that.

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Stuck with glue. Yeah, yeah. And the product's being treated. Yeah. You know, there's that, I guess. Yeah.

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So, yes, exactly. I mean, we've tried to eliminate as many sort of negative elements of the fabric, even with recycled.

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So, I mean, it's collected from plastic bottles and normally near ocean waste by a brand. It's a brand called Reprieve.

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Reprieve is a huge American brand. If you go on their website, you'll see their main market is clothing.

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But they also now ventured into sort of upholstery and curtain fabric as well.

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And I mean, their clients, people like Nike, everyone, you probably have some clothing, which is Reprieve.

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And then so they collect it anyway. So it's turned into the polyester fabric that we then supply to you guys.

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00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:44,080
So Reprieve, do they collect stuff from the ocean? If you go on their website, it's R-E-P-R-E-V-E.

138
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,080
It's around the ocean, around ocean waste. It's really, really cool.

139
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,080
And actually on their website, you'll see they've got like a countdown of how many bottles they're recycling at one time.

140
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,080
Really, really cool. And then so then that's what you get out of our products.

141
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,080
But then we've also gone that little bit step further.

142
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,080
We've made sure the crib five element of the fabric is halogen free.

143
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:12,080
And halogen is like a chemical which is generally has been used to make things crib five because you can stick it on the fabric and it doesn't burn to 2000 degrees.

144
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,080
It's cheap, very, very good and very, very obviously fire retardant, but it's not particularly good for the environment.

145
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,080
So we've removed that, but we still made it crib five.

146
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Our stain resistant treatment on it doesn't have any purofluoride carbons in it.

147
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,080
What is a purofluoride carbon?

148
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,080
So it's like a colourless, it's a colourless chemical.

149
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:41,080
It's not flammable, which is why again it's used in on soil and stain treatments in fabric, but it's not very good for the environment.

150
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:47,080
And so it's very good. It's very quick. It's very reactive to taking out stains.

151
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,080
So we've removed that and we've still got the stain resistant finish on them.

152
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,080
So that's where we're going and we'll add it to eventually to all of our other products as well.

153
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,080
So that's the main thing.

154
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,080
Recycled products at the moment are slightly more expensive because there's not the high demand for it as there is for normal ones.

155
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:12,080
But I'd imagine in the next five to ten years recycled elements will be like what crib five is now or what 40,000 rubs is now.

156
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,080
It will be a requirement in the industry.

157
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,080
There has to be some sort of recycle element.

158
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,080
There's no virgin yarn in your fabric or not not not not 100 percent virgin yarn.

159
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,080
I'm sure there will be a requirement. It's going to be 30 or 40 percent recycled.

160
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,080
And rightly so, I think as the world burns, we've got to do something.

161
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,080
We've got to. So, yeah, we'll try to do a little a little steps.

162
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,080
It's very difficult because then you don't always know what happens.

163
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:44,080
I mean, for fabric suppliers, for furniture manufacturers, for designers, you don't know what's going to happen to the rest.

164
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:55,080
So, I think the chairs in that restaurant or the headboards in that hotel after five, six years, are the owners just going to get rid of it all and put in a skip and send it to landfill?

165
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,080
You sort of lose that control over it.

166
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:09,080
So, I guess they'll have to be bigger regulations, maybe on like the people with the real money, which are the owners, the people, the hotel owners and the restaurant owners who will have to recycle things a lot better.

167
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:19,080
I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of trouble reusing old furniture and reusing, including the upholstery, even if the upholstery is very good.

168
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:27,080
Which is also very expensive. It's very like that's always the problem that comes across people, even on the domestic side, you can you've got your old sofa.

169
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,080
It's cheaper to bin it and go and buy a new one.

170
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:37,080
So, yeah, I can't go into the actual pricing is, but that soars down the velvet you were looking at.

171
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,080
That's a decently priced velvet.

172
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:49,080
It's what it is, but it's six pounds a meter more than our Madison velvet, which is our bestseller and not recycled.

173
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:55,080
And we can offer Madison in a recycled element now for 300 meter minimums, but that the price would then increase.

174
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,080
But I think it's already it's already sort of starting to merge.

175
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:07,080
And there's not too much difference now between the old to between I think and I think in two or three years, I don't I think it'll be very it'll be negligible.

176
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,080
Yeah, more people use it.

177
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,080
So, you know, there's less expense buying buying the actual yarn for the mills and things like that.

178
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:26,080
I think that there is some onus on upholsterers to label the furniture really, really well and because I think that there's a there's a labeling system in domestic where you have to have a label.

179
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,080
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to have the commercial don't necessarily.

180
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Yeah, that's a good point, actually.

181
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:43,080
And actually, if upholsterers and manufacturers were just to put something permanent on the bottom of a chair, saying this is crib five, I'm surprised there's not there's not that requirement when you think it's going to be in a home.

182
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,080
Yeah, I've seen so much furniture in pubs and restaurants.

183
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:56,080
I mean, I know it's group five because it's like in seats either our fabric or a competitor of ours fabric who only do group five as well. So you know it's group five.

184
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:05,080
But yeah, how does actually know when you're when you're recycling something if you're selling chairs that are upholstered, you have to make sure that they are compliant.

185
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,080
And if there's no label, no, it's tricky on the chair that's permanent fixture.

186
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,080
You have you don't know you can't prove it.

187
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,080
So you therefore have to re upholster it and then you have to throw it away.

188
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,080
Absolutely. I think that there is an onus on upholsterers to make sure things are labeled really well.

189
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:26,080
So then if you have got a chair that's not worn out and it's the right color, you don't have to re upholster it and you can just use it.

190
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,080
Yeah, absolutely.

191
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,080
No, I agree completely.

192
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,080
It's really valid. Really valid, I think.

193
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:44,080
Yeah, but yeah, no, you're right. It's budget still dictates everything, especially now, in fact, with the cost of living crisis and, you know, energy bills have dropped thankfully in the last few months.

194
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,080
But generally energy bills, budgets are tighter than they were.

195
00:27:48,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Kinds don't have the money to spend interest rates, they don't have the money to spend. They did. Well, I don't know. Pre war, pre COVID, you know, pre everything before the world went crazy.

196
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:07,080
So everything has changed. Yeah, I mean, the our pricing structure has changed.

197
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:15,080
Everything has risen. Our cheap fabric is now what our our cheap costing fabric is now what our medium to high costing fabric used to be.

198
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:23,080
It is and it also plot, you know, it's not just our self compared I speak to our competitors, we're all in the same boat. It is what it is.

199
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,080
People have people are slowly accepting they've got to pay more now.

200
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,080
They still get some people don't understand the pricing, but that is what it is, I'm afraid.

201
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,080
I'm hoping it's going to level out now.

202
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:50,080
So last year we had four price increases in a year. Normally we have one to two max this year we've only had one, and this doesn't seem to be any on the board, just yet. So I hope so, because it's a nightmare, especially as someone trying to sell a fabric, I give a price, and then two or three months later that price is invalid.

203
00:28:50,080 --> 00:29:04,080
Where in the past we might have been able to maintain our previous price where last year we just couldn't. If our suppliers put their product price up 10 15%, we're not making any money if we don't sell it on the right price. Same as you guys though with what you're charging for your design work.

204
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,080
You know, if you're, you know, everything's costing more. Yeah, a lot more.

205
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,080
So we're going to go for a little break now.

206
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:26,080
See you after the break.

207
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,080
My big, my big smile is bloody driving.

208
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,080
Yeah.

209
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,080
Which, my mileage, 85,000 miles I've done in my car.

210
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080
I love driving.

211
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:49,080
We'll all be automated soon, won't it? We'll be driverless cars. Oh my god I can't wait until I can have a driverless car and do some work while I'm in the car. I feel like I'm wasting my time when I drive, I always get the train.

212
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:56,080
It's so tiring as well. Like, concentrating on the driving, but once it becomes driverless, I think I'll be a while off.

213
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:11,080
I feel like sitting on a train, won't it? Yeah, my car is in the motorway actually can be almost driverless. I can put it in cruise control and I can put it in lane control. So it'll stay in the lane. But if you take your hand off the wheel after like three or four seconds, it has a shit fit.

214
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,080
What are you doing?

215
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,080
What are you doing, what you're doing. So you've got to like keep your hand low.

216
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,080
What's a RAV4?

217
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Toyota.

218
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,080
Toyota.

219
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,080
I don't know how I feel about driverless cars. I'm very old school.

220
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,080
Why?

221
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,080
I'm just really old school.

222
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:32,080
I just been away in this course recently, Naughty Driver's Course, and they told us 97% or something ridiculously high like that of crashes are down to driver error.

223
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,080
Oh God, when we're driving in a driverless car.

224
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:44,080
So when you think about that, when you think about that, how much safer and you'll get to places quicker because generally traffic is caused by idiots, I would say.

225
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,080
Because there's crashes.

226
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,080
Yeah, because there's crashes. You don't agree.

227
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,080
I disagree.

228
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,080
You're against the new world, are you?

229
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,080
I am.

230
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Yeah, I am. I don't like it.

231
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:02,080
One thing I wouldn't do, I couldn't imagine getting on a pilotless plane. That would freak me out a bit.

232
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,080
Well you wouldn't do really because they've got all these pilots.

233
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:10,080
I know, I know, but they literally are. But there's like the comfort of knowing if shit hits the fan, they're there.

234
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,080
Do you know what I mean? I'm not a great flyer.

235
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,080
No, I'm not a great flyer.

236
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,080
Which is not great considering how much flying I do for my job.

237
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:21,080
So when we went to France a couple of weeks ago with Thea, my daughter's eight.

238
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,080
Did you drive?

239
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,080
No, we flew and then picked up her car at the airport and drove.

240
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:33,080
And she said to me on the flight, literally we're about to take off, and she went, I think today's going to be the day.

241
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:41,080
I was like, what day? For what? She was like, well they have to use the slides.

242
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:48,080
And I was like, Thea, don't say shit like that. And I was like, I mean it is Ryanair.

243
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:55,080
Also, they charge for everything. If you have to get on the slide, they're charging you 50 quid per person to get out.

244
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,080
That's an extra.

245
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,080
Also, did she realise the slide doesn't go down 35,000 feet?

246
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:08,080
And I'm not a good flyer, so I was like, I managed to talk her down, it was fine.

247
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,080
When I went travelling before I joined Sunbury, I went backpacking for three or four months, I was flying to Australia.

248
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,080
The stop was in Singapore and we went through, it must have been a storm or something.

249
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,080
It was going to be two of the worst hours of my life. We were banging and it was just like...

250
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,080
Awful.

251
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:30,080
And I was on my own. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to die on my own, surrounded by strangers.

252
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,080
But I got there safe and sound.

253
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,080
You made it.

254
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,080
I was obviously being very dramatic.

255
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,080
I find it easier flying on my own.

256
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:44,080
I get really bored. I have to have something to distract me.

257
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,080
When I was in my twenties, we used to go to China and Asia a lot.

258
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
When I used to work for my dad.

259
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Did I know you then?

260
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,080
No, you knew my dad, you knew Ben as well, right?

261
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,080
And Ben.

262
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,080
And Ben, but you didn't know me.

263
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,080
You used to go to China, is that where you got most of your stuff?

264
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,080
Most of the stuff came from Asia.

265
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,080
We did import from Italy and Romania as well, but a lot of it came from China.

266
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,080
I was out there two or three times a year.

267
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,080
We used to do March, we used to do all the trade fairs.

268
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,080
We used to do every year 14 flights in three weeks.

269
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,080
Every single flight I got on, I went, I'm upping the odds.

270
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:27,080
And we used to get on China Air, which is a shit air.

271
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,080
Have you ever been on China?

272
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,080
No, it's funny, sorry about Australia, when I went to Australia.

273
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,080
So I went, I went and met two of my friends who were traveling already.

274
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,080
They'd been there for a year and then six of our other friends all came out and met us for three weeks.

275
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,080
And we went up to Coastal Australia, which is really great trip.

276
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:50,080
But they all flew China Southern and they just said it was like flying Ryanair 18 hours.

277
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,080
I flew Singapore Air, which is great.

278
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,080
Amazing.

279
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,080
Not in economy, obviously, but it was still better than China Southern.

280
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,080
Oh man, the China Air though, oh my God.

281
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,080
We were sat on a runway with all these Chinese people.

282
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,080
And you know the culture in Chinese.

283
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,080
It's funny that.

284
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,080
Genius.

285
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,080
Actually, they were all English.

286
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,080
But the culture in Chinese is to be quite shouty.

287
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,080
Like people get really shouty and they're not necessarily being aggressive.

288
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,080
They're just shouting.

289
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,080
I come from a shouty family.

290
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,080
I'm Jewish, so we also shout a lot.

291
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,080
Similar culture, clearly.

292
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,080
But we were sat on this plane and we were on the runway for about two hours.

293
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,080
And all of these guys were getting really irate.

294
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,080
And there was just like this, the noise level just was going up and up and up.

295
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,080
And there was this like shitty plane.

296
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,080
It was all rickety and it was like creaking.

297
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,080
Oh my God.

298
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,080
Leah and my dad were sitting there going, oh my God, what's going to happen?

299
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,080
And you've got two hours to think about what's going to happen.

300
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,080
Well, from like a one hour flight probably, wasn't it or something?

301
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,080
I can't remember.

302
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,080
I was just trying to think of such a big country.

303
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,080
Oh man.

304
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Shall we talk about fabric?

305
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,080
I don't know, I quite like the traveling vibe.

306
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,080
It's a bit more interesting, isn't it?

307
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,080
Fabric's great.

308
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,080
I can talk about fabric all day long, which I do, clearly.

309
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:17,080
So trends, what have you guys from a design perspective noticed from trends in the market?

310
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,080
Fabric trends.

311
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,080
Because interesting what we picked up.

312
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,080
I love this question.

313
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,080
Prepare us for that one.

314
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,080
I know.

315
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,080
I'm sort of reversing it.

316
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,080
Fabric trends.

317
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:33,080
Oh, I'm stumped.

318
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Obviously velvet has been like back in for a very, very long time now.

319
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,080
We sell so much velvet.

320
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,080
Yeah, I use a lot of velvet.

321
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,080
Yeah, exactly.

322
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,080
Plain velvet.

323
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,080
But then boot clay has been like the new sort of.

324
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,080
Yeah.

325
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,080
It's like a bobbly type.

326
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,080
It's quite retro.

327
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,080
It's a Scandinavian type thing.

328
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,080
That?

329
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,080
Yes, sort of, but not really.

330
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,080
A bit more than that.

331
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,080
That's a bit too smooth.

332
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,080
We've got a boot clay.

333
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,080
So I need to put a link in the notes on the show.

334
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,080
We've got a boot clay.

335
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,080
Put the link to our Leopold boot clay.

336
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,080
Okay.

337
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,080
Collection.

338
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Leopold boot clay collection.

339
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,080
It's a recycled boot clay.

340
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,080
Oh nice.

341
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,080
It's cool, right?

342
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,080
How do you spell boot clay?

343
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,080
B-O-U-C-L-E.

344
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,080
E?

345
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,080
Yes.

346
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,080
Tell my mother's an English teacher.

347
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,080
Oh, I hate autocorrect.

348
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,080
B-O-U-C-L-E.

349
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Yeah.

350
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,080
Link in notes.

351
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,080
Link in the description.

352
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,080
Note to self.

353
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,080
Note to self.

354
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,080
Ask James.

355
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,080
Ask James.

356
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,080
Order samples.

357
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,080
Get book.

358
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,080
Order fabric.

359
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,080
Specify, specify, specify.

360
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,080
Specify, specify, specify.

361
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,080
See, it rolls with the time.

362
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,080
So trends boot clay.

363
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,880
Boot clay's been, yeah, I mean, it's sort of, it's been a bit of a

364
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,880
challenge, but it's been a bit of a challenge, but it's been a bit of a challenge.

365
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,880
So trends boot clay.

366
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,880
Boot clay's been, yeah, I mean, it's not just us.

367
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,880
I mean, all of our competitors.

368
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,880
I saw someone put on the other day on LinkedIn, I'm looking for a fabric company that doesn't

369
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,880
have any boot clay because we all have one.

370
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,880
It's all, but it's the trend and everyone wants one.

371
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,880
So, and then it's about us trying to offer, yeah, slightly different colors to what our

372
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,880
competitors offer and then trying to do the same thing.

373
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880
But, and having the right stock and things like that.

374
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,880
And then you can put it on the trend and the trend can be done by the time you launch the

375
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:12,880
product.

376
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,880
So I was going to say, when you kind of asked that question, I was thinking, oh my God,

377
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,880
Cheryl, if something's on trend, I try and avoid it.

378
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:22,880
Well, do you remember?

379
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,880
At all costs.

380
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:24,880
That's because you're a trendsetter.

381
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:25,880
Trendsetter.

382
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:26,880
Oh, I don't know about that.

383
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,880
Cheryl, the trendsetter.

384
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,880
I think I try, if someone says, oh, I really want to.

385
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,880
So like the big thing before I started at Sunbury, I remember it was just, it was just

386
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,880
ending, because when I first started on the job, people asked me if we offered it, was

387
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,880
Hound, the Houndstooth design.

388
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,880
That was, I know it was massive before we started, we never offered it.

389
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,880
And by the time I, within like six months to a year of me starting, no one was asking

390
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,880
for it anymore.

391
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,880
It like completely sort of like died a death.

392
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,880
But for a time it was like the next big thing.

393
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,880
And then we had like the polka dot spots, do you remember that?

394
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:00,880
That was really in at one point.

395
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,880
We had that all on Costa Coffee.

396
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,880
But again, that's all sort of died a death now.

397
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,880
It's hard with designs, why we don't offer loads of patterns, because they're more expensive

398
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,880
to produce.

399
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,880
People generally will only use them once.

400
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,880
And then you don't get the volume you get out of them on planes.

401
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,880
So it's where you, what you're sitting on there, that back of that chair, it's not ours, it's

402
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,880
a competitor of ours.

403
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,880
I won't say who it is, but I do know who it is.

404
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,880
It looks a bit like your Kiko range.

405
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:28,880
Exactly.

406
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:29,880
It looks like our Kiko range.

407
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,880
That textured weave is very much in.

408
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,880
We've got one of our recycle products like that called Zonda, which I think I showed you

409
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:35,880
before, very similar.

410
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,880
The texture, that textured weave feels like the next big, is where people like to go because

411
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,880
they don't want completely pain, but they're scared of going for pattern.

412
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:43,880
So I feel like.

413
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,880
I think that the planes just have a bit more longevity, don't they?

414
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,880
A plane valve also, someone had someone, a big cruise line explained to me why they like

415
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:57,880
going for planes, because if they buy a plane from us for a ship for three or four years,

416
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,880
and then they want to refurb it, part of it, and we don't have that plane anymore, they

417
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,880
know we will either have an identical replacement or someone else will have something that's

418
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:08,880
identical.

419
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:14,880
So they don't have to worry then about refurbing the whole ship and causing an accident, causing

420
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,880
costing fortunes.

421
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:16,880
So it's much safer.

422
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:17,880
It's a much safer bet.

423
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,880
Patterns are more fashionable.

424
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:27,880
So the, for example, I've just specified a plane on your velvet.

425
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Yeah, the saw is down.

426
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,880
A plain green and then we've put a really beautiful pattern.

427
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,880
It's got loads of leaves and pigeons in it.

428
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,880
And we've done that on the curtains and on the cushions.

429
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,880
So the curtains and the cushions can be whipped off in two or three years when that's not

430
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,880
in fashion anymore.

431
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:51,880
And that's what the client has asked for.

432
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,880
And it doesn't cost them a fortune to replace it.

433
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:54,880
Yeah, exactly.

434
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,880
Or like, you know, if you're doing it on chairs, for us, if a chair breaks or three or four

435
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,880
chairs break and you need, and we don't have that plane fabric anymore, it's fine.

436
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,880
We'll probably have something identical to it.

437
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,880
Or something that would compliment it.

438
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:08,880
Something that would compliment it.

439
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,880
Whereas if you've done it all in patterns, you're sort of fucked because you've got

440
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,880
to replace the whole thing with a brand new pattern and everything's much more expensive.

441
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:16,880
And from a designer's point of view.

442
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,880
So your client isn't happy with you either, I assume.

443
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,880
If you're costing them more money.

444
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:27,880
And from a design perspective, you would maybe do plain, plain, plain pattern, like pop of colour.

445
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,880
Yeah, pop of colour.

446
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,880
You wouldn't generally do...

447
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,880
No, exactly.

448
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:32,880
Which is why we've also gone into...

449
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,880
Maximalism everywhere, would you?

450
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,880
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah.

451
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,880
That's why we've also started offering our prints as well, because prints have that pattern

452
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,880
and are much cheaper to produce than cut velvet patterns.

453
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,880
Because it's just a general print on a base cloth.

454
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,880
And if you've seen that, we've collaborated with a textile designer called Amelia Graham.

455
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,880
So we've launched two ranges.

456
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:52,880
LinkedIn notes.

457
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,880
LinkedIn Amelia stuff is really cool.

458
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,880
She obviously has our fabrics, but she does scarves and things like that.

459
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:58,880
And she's really nice as well.

460
00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,880
What's her name?

461
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Amelia Graham.

462
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:01,880
She's based in Brighton.

463
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,880
A-M-A-E.

464
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,880
A-M-E-L-I-A.

465
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,880
She is...

466
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,880
So we've collaborated on two products with her.

467
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,880
One was called Perception, which we launched annoyingly January 2020.

468
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,880
So it had a really good initial reception and then COVID sort of just killed that vibe.

469
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:18,880
But it's still doing really well.

470
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,880
It's been expecting some really cool jobs.

471
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,880
And then we launched the second one last year, which was on a recycled base cloth called Cascade.

472
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,880
The cool thing is now we can print any design on a recycled base cloth, which is really, really cool.

473
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,880
It gives good options for big projects.

474
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,880
It's about 100 meters minimum.

475
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,880
So if we wanted to design a fabric...

476
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,880
Design a fabric, yeah.

477
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,880
You can print it for us.

478
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:39,880
We can print it.

479
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,880
As long as you provide... we always say you've got to provide the artwork as designers.

480
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:43,880
We don't do the artwork.

481
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:44,880
We're not artists.

482
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,880
And it's about 100 meter minimums.

483
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,880
So it's not...

484
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,880
So obviously, if you're just doing it for a back of a chair, it wouldn't be ideal.

485
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:57,880
But if you want to do like a hotel curtains or like in bedroom chairs at a hotel, that's plenty for it as an example.

486
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,880
So on the stuff that you...

487
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,880
So on the printed patterns that you do, if you...

488
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,880
I don't know whether people want to know about this, but I'm intrigued to know whether...

489
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,880
Do you...

490
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,880
So you said there was a fabric called... what was it called?

491
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:10,880
Not Inception.

492
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:11,880
Perception.

493
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:12,880
Perception's a good name though.

494
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,880
I might suggest that in our next creative meeting.

495
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,880
Perception.

496
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,880
So you come up with an idea.

497
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,880
Yeah.

498
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,880
And then do you pitch that to designers or does she come to you with...

499
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,880
So our design director, a guy called Ben Earing.

500
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:26,880
Have you met Ben Earing?

501
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:27,880
Is Ben your cousin?

502
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,880
No, no, no.

503
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:29,880
Ben Lewis is my cousin.

504
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,880
We've got another Ben.

505
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:32,880
That's amazing.

506
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,880
Who is the design director.

507
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,880
And his dad was a former sales director at Sunbury, but he's not a Lewis.

508
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:39,880
But he's very...

509
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,880
Oh my God, he's not a Lewis.

510
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:42,880
He's an honorary Lewis.

511
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,880
He's probably the most important person in the business to be fair.

512
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:45,880
So he's the one that deals with...

513
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:46,880
Don't tell your dad that.

514
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:47,880
No, no, my dad agrees.

515
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,880
He deals with all the mills.

516
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,880
He's the one that's got all the...

517
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,880
If I've ever got an issue with a fabric, I'll call him.

518
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,880
He's got the knowledge that no one else...

519
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,880
He's worked in mills before as well.

520
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,880
So he's got encyclopedic knowledge of fabrics.

521
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:09,880
So he met... he found him and Amidia sort of connected on LinkedIn and they met and she was going through some conceptions of designs and that's how that got produced.

522
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,880
And then we spoke to our supplier who can do a base cloth in that and then we print the design onto that base cloth.

523
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,880
So it's pretty cool.

524
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:17,880
Pretty cool.

525
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:18,880
Lots of people are doing it now.

526
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:25,880
It's a good version of... a good way of getting color, getting design without it being too costly to us or the end user as well.

527
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,880
It's significantly cheaper than a cut velvet, for example.

528
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,880
And much... we don't have to stock loads of it.

529
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,880
And then you don't get left with loads of stock once it goes off and out of trend, which is always a problem.

530
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,880
It's the risk everyone takes, I guess.

531
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,880
So yeah, that's a pretty...

532
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:55,880
But interesting to know that from a design point of view, if there was a design, you know, if there was an interior designer working on a project that needed something that was completely bespoke, if they were in a position to either design it themselves or have someone as an artist do the design for them.

533
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,880
And they can approach you guys at Sumbree and say, you know, this is what we need.

534
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,880
These are the quantities that we need.

535
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,880
Is it something that you're interested in?

536
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:03,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

537
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,880
The only thing we don't do is the design ourselves because we're not designers.

538
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,880
But yeah, if they gave us the design in an image, in a high resolution image, there's no reason why we can't do it.

539
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,880
I always think when you're doing... because we do branding and interior design.

540
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:27,880
I always think when you're doing branding, it's really... if you're doing branding for a hotel or for like a hospitality venue, it's always really cool to have a pattern.

541
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:28,880
I agree completely.

542
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,880
And as part of the branding, I always offer that because having that pattern...

543
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:32,880
It makes it pop.

544
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,880
Yeah.

545
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,880
It gives you brand consistency.

546
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,880
And it elevates the brand, doesn't it?

547
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,880
I mean, it's definitely high end, isn't it?

548
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,880
It's kind of the luxury end of the market to be able to integrate that branding somehow into...

549
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,880
Not just from a color perspective, but it could be really clever with you though.

550
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,880
I don't think it needs to be expensive though because it doesn't have to be high end.

551
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:54,880
It's a bit like Costa.

552
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,880
Costa have got their brand sorted.

553
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,880
Their interior fit-outs aren't that expensive.

554
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,880
But Costa are constantly evolving.

555
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,880
And they're constantly changing.

556
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:11,880
Because we've been on Costa projects for like 10, 15 years and sometimes we get more out of them than not.

557
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,880
Sometimes we get loads out of them, but they're constantly changing how they do things because they know they've got to evolve as a brand.

558
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:18,880
It's really interesting.

559
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,880
Obviously they're owned by Coca-Cola now.

560
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:22,880
They got bought out.

561
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,880
Did the whole of Whitbreads get bought out by Costa?

562
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:25,880
No, no.

563
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,880
They just bought part of Costa from Whitbreads.

564
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,880
But Whitbreads still own Premier Inn and things like that.

565
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,880
But yeah, I think Whitbreads bought them.

566
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:36,880
Correct me if I'm wrong.

567
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,880
You can look it up online, listeners.

568
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,880
I think they bought it for like 17 million or something.

569
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,880
And they sold it to Coke for like four billion.

570
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,880
But they did so much though because they went into all the Costa garages and got those Costa Expresses and stuff.

571
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:53,880
I mean it's genius.

572
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:54,880
It's a great idea.

573
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,880
I would say it's a bigger brand in the UK than Starbucks is probably.

574
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,880
Starbucks is like the go-to brand in America.

575
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:07,880
But here you've got Costa, you've got Pret as well, which is obviously more of a city type coffee place.

576
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,880
But coffee here is massive, right?

577
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,880
We were talking about before.

578
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,880
There's so many.

579
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,880
You've got Costa, I mean the Bain too, Costa Pret.

580
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,880
Then you've also got Costa Pret, Starbucks.

581
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,880
Then you've got Nero, which is really nice.

582
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:23,880
Nero is pretty big.

583
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:24,880
I like Nero. Nero is really good.

584
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,880
Then you've got Tim Hultons, which is getting bigger.

585
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:28,880
But that's...

586
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:29,880
That's not coffee though, is it?

587
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,880
Yeah, it's coffee.

588
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,880
It's like the Starbucks of Canada almost.

589
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:33,880
Oh.

590
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:34,880
Yeah.

591
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,880
There's quite a bit of fabric in that as well in the UK, but it's massive.

592
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,880
So that's huge.

593
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,880
And then you've got smaller ones, as we were saying, in the UK.

594
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,880
They're obviously massive in America and things like that.

595
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,880
Then you've got Dunkin Donuts here, I think.

596
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,880
You had that in America?

597
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:49,880
Oh my gosh.

598
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:50,880
Bang on that.

599
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:51,880
We've got Krispy Kremes.

600
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,880
Yeah.

601
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:53,880
They're not drive-through.

602
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:54,880
They're not drive-through.

603
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:55,880
No, there is one.

604
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:56,880
There is one Krispy Kreme.

605
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:57,880
Is there?

606
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:58,880
Yeah, yeah.

607
00:46:58,880 --> 00:46:59,880
There's one Krispy Kreme drive-through in Enfield.

608
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:00,880
Not quite far for you.

609
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:01,880
Not far for me at all.

610
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,880
It's about 10 minutes from my house.

611
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:03,880
It's too close.

612
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:04,880
It's too close.

613
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,880
You've not been in a while.

614
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:06,880
I might suggest it to her.

615
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,880
Yeah, no, it's about 10 minutes from my house.

616
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,880
But yeah, that's the next one.

617
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:12,880
We'll pitch it.

618
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,880
We'll pitch it to Dunkin.

619
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,880
Dunkin Donuts.

620
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,880
Dunkin Donuts.

621
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:16,880
Get a mug over here.

622
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:17,880
We've got a Wendy's opening culture store.

623
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:18,880
Do you?

624
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,880
Apparently everyone keeps talking about it.

625
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:20,880
Oh, we took the kids to Wendy's and there was a massive queue.

626
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:21,880
Yeah, and there was a massive thing, I think, in the paper someone was telling me the other

627
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:22,880
day about everyone's up in arms about the fact that it's all cashless.

628
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:23,880
Oh.

629
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:36,880
Rightly so, people.

630
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,880
Do you know what?

631
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,380
The banks are just rinsing us, aren't they?

632
00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:42,880
All the money is just going to the banks.

633
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,880
I'm not even going to get on my seatbelt for that.

634
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,880
I don't really carry cash, though.

635
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,880
I do.

636
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,880
Do you?

637
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:49,880
I can't keep using it.

638
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:50,880
It'll go.

639
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,880
It will go.

640
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:52,880
No.

641
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:53,880
Yeah, but every time you do a transaction, two and a half percent of that transaction

642
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:54,880
goes to the bank.

643
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:55,880
I know.

644
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,880
And then that money is reduced and then that person's going to pay someone else in something

645
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,880
and then two and a half percent of that.

646
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:58,880
By the time you've had ten transactions, all the money's gone to the bank.

647
00:47:58,880 --> 00:47:59,880
I know.

648
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:00,880
It's just convenient, though.

649
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,880
Yeah, no, I know.

650
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,880
It's control, though, as well.

651
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:03,880
Don't forget.

652
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Massive control.

653
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:05,880
Don't get us on our seat box.

654
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,880
Maybe we'll edit this out.

655
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,880
Yeah.

656
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:08,880
Head down the conspiracy theory about the whole.

657
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:09,880
Anarchy, let's go.

658
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:10,880
Anarchy, let's go.

659
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:11,880
Anarchy, let's go.

660
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,880
Anarchy, let's go.

661
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Anarchy, let's go.

662
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:14,880
Anarchy, let's go.

663
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:22,880
Anarchy, let's go.

664
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,880
Yeah, we're not talking about that.

665
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,880
We're talking about fabrics.

666
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,880
We accept our fabrics in cash, by the way.

667
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,880
We take cash.

668
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:35,880
We take whatever you want.

669
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:36,880
I think we're in cash, actually.

670
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:37,880
So what else can you educate us about fabrics?

671
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:38,880
Oh, trends.

672
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:39,880
So I was going to say something about trends.

673
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:52,880
So in reply, so going back to trends, I think the sustainability has got a massive thing.

674
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,880
Oh, it's like.

675
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,880
And like green and natural fibers.

676
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,880
And I don't think that's going anywhere fast.

677
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,880
It's here to stay.

678
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:10,880
You know, we've got to, you know, the world is like everyone just look out the window,

679
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:11,880
not this summer, actually.

680
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Generally, you know, the world is burning and we've got to I suppose, you know, alien

681
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,880
dates not really up to, you know, we can only do so much as people.

682
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:26,520
But, you know, when you're supplying and I think there's a responsibility to start to

683
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,880
supply things that has a sustainable element.

684
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:29,880
Absolutely.

685
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,880
The difficulty at the moment, though, with all of that is the fact that it's all people

686
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,880
have the choice.

687
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:36,880
Right.

688
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:37,880
Exactly.

689
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,880
They have the choice to either be.

690
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,880
I would say I think most people are do try and make some effort.

691
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:44,880
Some effort.

692
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,880
I don't think there's very few people who are completely like, fuck it, I don't care.

693
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,880
Basically, I think most people, you know, have a recycling bin at home, for example,

694
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:55,880
basics.

695
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,880
And so then that's why I think it then translate into the working environment.

696
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,880
A designer generally will like to look for recycled something that's got a sustainable

697
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:04,880
story to it.

698
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,080
It's also a nice story to sort of when you're selling it in, it looks good and it sounds

699
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,080
nice.

700
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:15,960
I think that the responsibility of designers is and I said this, I think in the cradle

701
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,960
to cradle one is designers have a responsibility to specify something that is and make sure

702
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,960
that they're offering a sustainable choice.

703
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:28,680
If even if it's more expensive, you go to the client, you say this is the sustainable

704
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,600
option, which I would prefer you to use.

705
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,680
And this is one that's cheaper if you need to work on the budget.

706
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,360
Or maybe a mixture of the two.

707
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,040
That's always maybe a good way to go.

708
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,040
But no, I agree.

709
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,800
I mean, I noticed when we first launched the recycle products, we had a good reception,

710
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,040
but there were some people like whatever.

711
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,280
But now, you know, we get asked, is it recycled?

712
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,680
And I'm showing the fabric and they're like, oh, it's recycled.

713
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:49,680
Really?

714
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:50,680
That's great.

715
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:51,680
It's good to know.

716
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:52,680
And it's just becoming such a thing now.

717
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,680
It's so important.

718
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:58,240
But in terms of trend, the actual perception that it's recycled.

719
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,440
That whole I think that kind of natural looking.

720
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:02,440
Yeah, absolutely.

721
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,800
It doesn't necessarily mean that it is recycled.

722
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,800
Hopefully it is.

723
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:06,800
Do you mean in colors?

724
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:07,800
Yes.

725
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,800
So like soft like greens and natural fibers.

726
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

727
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,800
Things like that are all really on trend at the moment.

728
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:16,800
It's interesting.

729
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:17,800
Yeah, I agree, actually.

730
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,800
I mean, that I mean, the problem with natural fibers are so expensive.

731
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,800
Wall is obviously very it is so natural.

732
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:24,800
It's a fortune.

733
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:25,800
You know, we wouldn't be able to.

734
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,160
If we launched a wall range, we'd sell it in some elements.

735
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,680
We would sell it, but not in any great, great quantities because it's so expensive.

736
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,720
We'd have to sell it significantly more than what we sell any product for, even our most

737
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:38,720
expensive product.

738
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:41,000
And it's not really the market we work in.

739
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,480
The high end residential market, I think that's got natural products have got a huge future,

740
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,440
like huge people, especially if you're building, if you're designing a house in like Chelsea

741
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,120
or even somewhere in the richer parts of the home counties.

742
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,080
You know, that's where natural fibers have a huge part to play.

743
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,080
Again, it's cost, isn't it?

744
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,080
It's cost.

745
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,920
But suppose if you've got a five, 10 million pound house, you can definitely afford to pay

746
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,560
an extra 20 quid a meter on your sofa.

747
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,560
I think.

748
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,560
Oh, God, yeah.

749
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,800
So when I sell my fabric, I'm designing my multi-million pound home and I got you girls

750
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:14,800
designing it.

751
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:15,800
Good man.

752
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:16,800
We'll do it.

753
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,240
The other thing about trends is which we touched on when we were talking about color, the

754
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:26,120
fact that and Cheryl, you said I don't like it when it's a trend.

755
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,040
Actually when you're designing, you shouldn't really be looking at a trend.

756
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:34,560
You should be looking at what are you trying to achieve if you if what you're trying to

757
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,040
do is attract all the people who liked to be trendy.

758
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,040
Is that a word?

759
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,200
Yeah, in on trend on trend on trend.

760
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,200
My grandma used to say that.

761
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,200
When you're trendy.

762
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,200
Trendy.

763
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:55,160
But in terms of you've got to look at the market that you're designing for the person

764
00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:00,120
that you're designing for and tap that tap into that, not into the trend.

765
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,120
Is that is that where you were going with that earlier?

766
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,440
Because you don't like to do your designing.

767
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,480
Do you follow like color of the year?

768
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,480
You know, no, no, no, no.

769
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,840
Honestly, a massive, massive anarchist over here.

770
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:12,840
I'm burning down.

771
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,840
It's awful.

772
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:14,840
It's not awful.

773
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:15,840
It's not.

774
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:21,520
What I find interesting is we I mean, we don't get affected by the color of the year too

775
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,240
much because hospitality doesn't isn't as influenced as other markets are.

776
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:29,240
But it is funny that it's decided by a group of people what the color of the year is.

777
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:30,240
But why?

778
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:31,240
Why is it the color of the year?

779
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,400
We were talking about this when we were discussing psychology of color and we were when we've

780
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:41,600
had discussions about it after we spoke to Karen and you know, what came out of that

781
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:46,480
conversation was actually like color of the year, you're lost, it's great.

782
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,720
That's not that's not what it should be about.

783
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:53,640
And I think that's probably why I try and if there's a if there's something on trend

784
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,920
and it's very much on trend, I'm very conscious as a designer that that trend has got to me

785
00:53:58,920 --> 00:53:59,920
at a point.

786
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,400
It's got shelf life and it's got a shelf life.

787
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:08,520
So actually, if the client comes to me and says, I've got a vision in mind of what I

788
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:14,640
want to try and create and I really love, for example, I don't know, I'm just trying

789
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:15,640
to think of antlers.

790
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:20,200
And I'm just thinking about something that would be really on trend necklace.

791
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,200
Boot clay, for example.

792
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,160
So if they were like, I love the boot clay and, you know, I kind of want to center it

793
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:32,000
around that or those kind of textures, I'd be thinking, well, boot clay is very on trend

794
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:33,000
now.

795
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,320
But that's you know, the only thing about boot clay is it's plain.

796
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,320
Right.

797
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,640
So it's got more of a shelf life than a particular type of pattern.

798
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:40,640
Yeah.

799
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,040
Has like like a houndstooth, dog's tooth, I should say, or or like a polka dot or something

800
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,680
like that or herringbone, which has a herringbone has been going for quite a while.

801
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,680
But can I just ask?

802
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:53,680
Sorry to change the subject.

803
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,680
You can change much.

804
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:55,680
Houndstooth, dog tooth.

805
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,680
What's why?

806
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:57,680
Well, I don't know why.

807
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,680
I mean, again, they call it dog tooth, houndstooth.

808
00:54:58,680 --> 00:54:59,680
And was it first houndstooth or first dog tooth?

809
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:00,680
Oh, I don't know.

810
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:01,680
Bit of research here.

811
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:02,680
So you get you get all sorts of knowledge.

812
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:07,680
They say you learn something new every day.

813
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,680
No, it's fine.

814
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:11,680
Houndstooth.

815
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:12,680
Dog tooth.

816
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:13,680
Houndstooth.

817
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:14,680
I can't.

818
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:15,680
Yeah.

819
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:16,680
What came first, right?

820
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:17,680
We'll have to come back to that.

821
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,360
We'll put that in the notes, people.

822
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:27,080
I think from a trend point of view for me anyway, as a designer, I try and I'm constantly

823
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,640
trying to push the boundaries and I'm constantly trying to think outside the box.

824
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,800
And you know, maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate a little bit.

825
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,360
So if someone comes to me and says this is what I want to try and yeah, as a vision,

826
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,840
I won't just I won't just do as I'm told.

827
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,040
I'm not going to just take their vision and say, OK, well, that's what I'm going to design.

828
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,920
I'll be like, well, actually, if you thought about that, there's so much more to it than

829
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:51,920
that.

830
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,880
Have you thought about the context of the building, the context of your brand, the context

831
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,280
of your location, of everything?

832
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:05,840
It's interesting when you say think outside the box because we tried to, but we can't

833
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:11,480
take we as we can't be too different as fabric suppliers because if you launch something

834
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:17,200
that is very Marmite, you know, you're you can be left with quite a lot of stuff that

835
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,600
people hate, but it can also get huge.

836
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:21,600
And that is that gamble.

837
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,600
But is that gamble you take?

838
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:28,200
So it is interesting that I know you hear from designers, we want fabric suppliers,

839
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,000
we want you guys to do something different.

840
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,680
We want like, yeah, I know.

841
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,840
But there's a reason we don't all do loads of different stuff because we've all tried

842
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,480
it in the past and we've had stuff that's worked and hasn't worked.

843
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,640
Same as a lot of our competitors.

844
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:45,160
But the stuff that hasn't worked is like it's really shit because you're left with expensive,

845
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,800
very expensive, very expensive mistakes.

846
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,400
So you can't, you know, and the safer bet is always planes and textured planes.

847
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,680
It's always going to be and that's always what our volume will be.

848
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,760
But I get from you guys is pretty boring.

849
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,680
No, there's a place for it without a shadow of a doubt.

850
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,240
It's always the base of my design is I always go to your book.

851
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:06,040
Start with your planes and then work your way out.

852
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:07,040
Yeah.

853
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,040
Yeah.

854
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,040
Sensible.

855
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:10,040
Have a little break.

856
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,040
See you in a minute.

857
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:26,040
I feel like I'm going to get a reputation on this podcast of being an anarchist.

858
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,680
I'm going to be like, no, no, no.

859
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:40,280
It's all made up from the sky.

860
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,280
That's why I asked you to help me.

861
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,280
It's just polarizing opinions.

862
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:47,280
I like that.

863
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:48,280
I like that.

864
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:49,280
It's not.

865
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,280
It's really fucking.

866
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,280
If someone said to me, I need boot clay, it's going in somewhere.

867
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:54,280
That's good.

868
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,720
I think there's a place for both of that.

869
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,720
I genuinely do.

870
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:58,720
I think there's a place for the tradition.

871
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:03,720
I'm looking at it and being like, that's why Haley's got loads of work on.

872
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,920
I'm like, right, I've got these two projects I'm working on at the moment.

873
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:08,920
No.

874
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:09,920
Not at all.

875
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:10,920
There's a place for both.

876
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,920
I agree.

877
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:12,920
I agree completely.

878
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:13,920
I wouldn't want to do.

879
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:14,920
I wouldn't want to change.

880
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:22,400
If you're a creative person, you can't really make something you're not passionate about,

881
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,400
I'd imagine.

882
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:29,360
Whereas I can sell a product I don't like or I don't think will do well.

883
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:30,840
I still sell it in the same way.

884
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,840
I sell a really good product, I guess.

885
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,840
I'm not like that.

886
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:34,840
You'll be all creative.

887
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:35,840
It's different.

888
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,200
Obviously, if I really like a product, I think it's going to do really well.

889
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,440
I guess it comes across that I really like it a lot more than if I didn't like it.

890
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,440
I like all of our products.

891
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,800
I used to sell shirts when I was at college.

892
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,360
I used to work in backers menswear.

893
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,360
I used to absolutely love it.

894
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:53,360
You used to work at the same culture store?

895
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:54,360
Yeah.

896
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:55,360
Still there.

897
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:56,360
Yeah, I know.

898
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:57,360
That was like 20 years ago.

899
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:58,360
That's insane.

900
00:58:58,360 --> 00:58:59,360
25 years ago.

901
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:00,360
Oh my God, I'm sorry.

902
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:01,360
What was it?

903
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,360
Was it like a high-end store?

904
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:03,360
It's like an independent menswear.

905
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,360
It's still there.

906
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:10,480
It's quite rare, actually, that these independent shops are still there.

907
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,560
They taught me how to sell.

908
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,560
It was brilliant because I used to get men dressed.

909
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:16,560
Your dream, right?

910
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:17,560
I'm not sure about that.

911
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:18,560
I think it's the other way around.

912
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:30,480
Yeah, but she sees them get undressed and then dresses.

913
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,920
All of the shirts in the shop, my point was...

914
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,800
That you got to see the men undressed and dress them back up.

915
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,600
Would you like me to help you with that?

916
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:40,600
You got a problem taking that shirt off?

917
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:41,600
I'll do your cufflinks for you.

918
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:42,600
I'll help you.

919
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:50,360
All the shirts in the shop that I liked would sell out ridiculously quickly because I'd

920
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,360
be like, look at this one, it's amazing.

921
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,160
Then all the ones I didn't like never used to sell, so they used to get me involved.

922
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,160
I was their best Saturday girl.

923
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,160
Well, yeah, maybe come work for us.

924
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:00,160
Still today, I go in there and they go, yeah, this is Haley.

925
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,160
She was our best ever Saturday girl.

926
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,160
Maybe you can come and take my job.

927
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:03,160
Sell better than me.

928
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,160
I like my job.

929
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:05,160
Yeah, I like my job.

930
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,160
It's a good industry to work in, isn't it?

931
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,160
Oh, yes.

932
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:08,160
We were going to talk about the industry, weren't we?

933
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,160
Segway, Segway.

934
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:18,360
That's a good segue because you worked in it for a long time, haven't you?

935
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:19,360
It's a very sociable industry.

936
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,360
There's lots of networking events.

937
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:22,760
It's good fun.

938
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:27,200
The type of selling you do isn't hard selling because I did recruitment before this.

939
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,200
Oh, God.

940
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:29,200
Yeah, on the phone.

941
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,920
That was good training for you.

942
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:31,920
Very good training.

943
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,840
Very, very good training, but it's not fun.

944
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,760
It's not enjoyable in the way that this is a fun sociable industry.

945
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,200
You've got all your networking events, you can meet people.

946
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:41,200
BCFA events.

947
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,200
It's actually not called the BCFA anymore.

948
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,200
Oh, no, it's not.

949
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,720
It's called the CIUK, Commercial Interiors UK.

950
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,360
I can't remember the name of that.

951
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,240
Yeah, they decided to rebrand.

952
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:54,840
I guess British Contract Furniture Association sounds a bit stuffy.

953
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,480
Commercial Interiors UK is a little bit modern and it involves commercial as well.

954
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,480
It is what it is.

955
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,560
It is what it is and it does sound a bit more modern.

956
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,280
It's got a cool branding logo and things like that.

957
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:06,680
That's what I've done for it.

958
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,080
We have the industry luncheon.

959
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,800
We have the barbecue, which is fun.

960
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,480
Lots of drinking, which I like at these events.

961
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:17,480
It's really good fun.

962
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:18,480
Yeah, it's good.

963
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,480
You always meet different people as well.

964
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,320
It's a creative industry, so it's not stuffy, which is always a problem, I think.

965
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,480
I'd hate to work in a corporate world or something like that.

966
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,840
Yeah, I love getting into the room with all the designers and the BCFA.

967
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:34,840
CIUK.

968
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:35,840
CIUK.

969
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:42,600
The UK events are awesome because there's so many designers and everyone's so flamboyant

970
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:43,600
and everyone's kind of like...

971
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:44,600
It's great.

972
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,000
From a networking perspective, it's great because you drink and you talk to people.

973
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,600
It's a good way of talking to people in a non-work environment.

974
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:54,600
I think that's quite important.

975
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,880
I don't know if you... When you have people selling to you, you don't want people being

976
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,040
too strong, coming on too strong with the selling, do you?

977
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:03,040
No.

978
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,680
I've got someone ringing me every couple of weeks at the moment and you're just like,

979
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:07,680
oh.

980
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:08,680
It's annoying.

981
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,680
I didn't think that people still behave like that from a sales point of view.

982
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,680
It's all kind of related to it.

983
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:20,760
It's about... You do have to be persistent because as a salesperson, you can't not be

984
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:21,760
persistent.

985
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:22,760
Remember me.

986
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:23,760
Remember me.

987
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,760
Remember me.

988
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:25,760
Remember me.

989
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,240
There's a line between being persistent...

990
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,240
And annoying.

991
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:29,240
And annoying.

992
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:30,240
Yeah.

993
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,040
It's hard not to cross it because you don't want people to forget you.

994
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,400
There are a couple of designers I work with who don't mind that I call them all the time

995
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:38,840
because they know they're like, yeah, I'm useless.

996
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,520
Just keep calling me and I'll answer eventually and we'll meet, which is fine.

997
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:42,520
I'll keep doing that.

998
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,160
Then there's others where you know you can't call too much.

999
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:47,880
You can't just drive them mad.

1000
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:48,880
That's fine.

1001
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:49,880
It isn't that... You're right.

1002
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,720
It's not that type of industry where we're double glazing or anything like that.

1003
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:54,720
It's interesting.

1004
01:02:54,720 --> 01:03:00,000
Working in the States, they love British salespeople because we are much more... Americans are

1005
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,120
so like, hey man, it's so over the top.

1006
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:05,600
Whereas we talk to them.

1007
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:06,600
Educate them.

1008
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,240
We just talk to them like people.

1009
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,680
We have conversations with them and it's much more relaxed.

1010
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,680
Whereas these... Yeah.

1011
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:14,680
People buy from people, don't they?

1012
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:15,680
They do.

1013
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:16,680
That's what I was taught in recruitment.

1014
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,560
I had this boss who was very David Brint-esque.

1015
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,200
But he did... That was actually one of the first things he said to me, people buy from

1016
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:24,200
people.

1017
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,920
It is very true because we sell fabric, which is lovely, but we've got over six of our competitors

1018
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,280
who sell basically the same fabric, buy it from the same people we do.

1019
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,240
It's about how the relationships you build to sell that.

1020
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:43,240
I think as a designer, you have to be... Especially if you're freelance, you have to be a salesperson.

1021
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:44,800
I think everyone has to sell in their job.

1022
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,560
Because you have to get the work and then you have to sell your design.

1023
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:49,560
Yeah, absolutely.

1024
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,400
You and I, Cheryl, both had sales jobs, haven't we?

1025
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:53,400
I think that's done us so well.

1026
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:58,000
Even if you work in a big, big, big... One of the big global design practices, you do

1027
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:59,000
have to be selling.

1028
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,680
You do have to sell your designs to your bosses or the bosses then have to sell it to the

1029
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:04,680
corporations.

1030
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,240
If you're not confident and... You've got to be confident in what you're

1031
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:08,240
making.

1032
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:09,240
Yeah, definitely.

1033
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,240
You don't present it properly and you don't sell it properly, then no one's going to believe

1034
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,840
you if you don't believe yourself.

1035
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:14,840
Yeah.

1036
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:15,840
No, I agree.

1037
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,120
You have to sell yourself and then the product will follow.

1038
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:23,160
Unless the product is not very good and you're a bit fucked.

1039
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:24,160
It's always good.

1040
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:25,160
Our product's always good, so that's why.

1041
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:26,160
You like our product, correct?

1042
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:27,160
Love your product.

1043
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:28,160
I've been working with you for a long time.

1044
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,160
Long time.

1045
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:30,160
Long time.

1046
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:31,160
Twenty... Too many years.

1047
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:32,160
Twenty-two years.

1048
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:33,160
Twenty-two years.

1049
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,160
Oh my God, I'm so old.

1050
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,160
Do you know how old I was then?

1051
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:36,160
Don't go down that road.

1052
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:37,160
Go on, go on, tell me.

1053
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:38,160
Ten.

1054
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:39,160
Fuck off.

1055
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:40,160
I'm 32.

1056
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,160
Yeah.

1057
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:42,160
So when I started, I started in 2016.

1058
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:43,160
Oh my God, so that was seven years ago.

1059
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:44,160
Yeah, I was 25, fresh.

1060
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:45,160
Fresh as daisy.

1061
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,160
Slightly more hair.

1062
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:47,160
Shaggy hair.

1063
01:04:47,160 --> 01:05:01,560
All that driving.

1064
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:02,560
Well thank you very, very much, James.

1065
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:03,560
Thank you for having me.

1066
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:04,560
I really enjoyed that.

1067
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:05,560
Coming in and educating us.

1068
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:06,560
That's all right.

1069
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:07,560
What are you guys up to this weekend?

1070
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:08,560
I'm getting ready to go on holiday next week.

1071
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:09,560
Oh, you're away next week, aren't you?

1072
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:10,560
I am at a music festival.

1073
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:11,560
If it doesn't chuck it down with rain.

1074
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:12,560
Tomorrow's my turn.

1075
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:13,560
Yeah, I think I'll do that one day.

1076
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:14,560
I'm going to do that one day.

1077
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:15,560
I'm going to do that one day.

1078
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:16,560
I'm going to do that one day.

1079
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:17,560
I think I'll do that on Sunday.

1080
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:18,560
Sunday's meant to be nice.

1081
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:19,560
Yeah.

1082
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:20,560
So do that on Sunday.

1083
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:21,560
Get your rallies out.

1084
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:22,560
Yeah.

1085
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:23,560
Yeah.

1086
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:24,560
What are you doing?

1087
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:31,360
I'm going to my friends tomorrow night and I'm meeting my mate's new baby and then I'm

1088
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,360
playing golf and then I'm out with my wife on Sunday.

1089
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:35,360
Nice, busy weekend.

1090
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:36,360
Busy, relaxing nice though.

1091
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,360
Yeah.

1092
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:38,360
Busy nice.

1093
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:39,360
Yeah.

1094
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,360
We're going to sign off now.

1095
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:41,360
I hope you're having a good day.

1096
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:42,360
Thanks for having me on.

1097
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:43,360
Thank you.

1098
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:44,360
You're very welcome.

1099
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:45,360
I really enjoyed it.

1100
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:46,360
Ciao.

1101
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,360
Ciao.

1102
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:48,360
Ciao.

1103
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:49,360
Ciao.

1104
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:50,360
Well that was fun with James.

1105
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:51,360
Yeah so good to see him.

1106
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:52,360
So good to see him and lots of interesting information in there I thought.

1107
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:53,360
Yeah I think we put the world to rights a little bit.

1108
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:54,360
I'm not sure if we talked about Fabric the whole time but then we didn't talk about Cradle

1109
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:55,360
to Cradle with Lewis last time.

1110
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,360
The whole time either.

1111
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:57,360
No exactly.

1112
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:58,360
Exactly.

1113
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:03,360
Well you know, I was going to go and sit down with my wife and tell you a story that I

1114
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,360
love.

1115
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,360
I like when you're in the garden.

1116
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:06,360
You know it's a great place and you can have a little bit of a walk around and you can

1117
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:07,360
see all the plants and plants and plants.

1118
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:08,360
And I was thinking about what I could do with the garden and what I could do with the garden

1119
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,280
I'm not sure if we talked about fabric the whole time,

1120
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,600
but then we didn't talk about Cradle to Cradle

1121
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,160
with Lewis last time, the whole time either.

1122
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,520
No, exactly, exactly.

1123
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,760
In terms of upholstery fabrics,

1124
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:25,640
do you have any tips for designers or any favorites?

1125
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,720
Do you have any favorites of upholstery fabrics

1126
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:29,920
that you like to use?

1127
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,920
Obviously, sunbrow fabrics, sunbrow design even.

1128
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,800
I think it really, as we touched on in the discussions,

1129
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:38,680
we just have a James.

1130
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,680
I think it's really important that what you're selecting

1131
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,640
is specific to the project that you're working on.

1132
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,800
So whilst, you know, I would naturally gravitate

1133
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,560
towards natural fibers, natural textures,

1134
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,840
natural, like neutral colors or like really muted tones,

1135
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,600
just because that's what I feel quite comfortable with

1136
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:03,640
from a design point of view,

1137
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:05,800
but it depends on the project, doesn't it?

1138
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,880
You know, it completely depends on the project.

1139
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,240
I think it's really important.

1140
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:10,880
One of the things that I really wanted to get across

1141
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:15,880
was it's really important to make sure that it's suitable.

1142
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,880
Like in terms of Martindale, rub tests,

1143
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,760
make sure that you've got the right fiber retardancy.

1144
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:23,840
And in terms of, you know,

1145
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:25,480
if you're designing a restaurant or a pub

1146
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,360
or you're doing something commercial,

1147
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,400
it's got to be crib five, otherwise you're not complying.

1148
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,640
Yeah, I think also though, excuse me,

1149
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,680
I think also, you know, whilst obviously James

1150
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,720
was talking about very much the kind of commercial

1151
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,120
side of things and the commercial side of the business

1152
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,280
and the requirements from a commercial point of view,

1153
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,240
there is no reason why you can't replicate that

1154
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,280
in a residential project that you're working on.

1155
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:53,680
But it's important to have those,

1156
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,520
to think about those considerations because, you know,

1157
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,480
when you're, if you're doing a residential project,

1158
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,680
you know, and you're doing a new build or you're refurbing

1159
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,160
or you're extending and you're putting product in there

1160
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:07,960
that, you know, you want it to last, don't you?

1161
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,320
You don't want to be, well, hopefully,

1162
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,000
you don't want to be in a situation where, you know,

1163
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,360
you've paid a lot of money for a sofa

1164
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,080
and then the sofa is, you know, three years down the line,

1165
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:17,360
it needs changing.

1166
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:21,040
So I think it's important from both commercial

1167
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,640
and residential point of view

1168
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,000
that that kind of stuff's considered really, but.

1169
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,440
I suppose I'm thinking if you had a,

1170
01:08:30,440 --> 01:08:33,240
like a bit of fixed seating in a kitchen

1171
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,240
where they had seven kids in the house,

1172
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,480
like you would put a commercial fabric in there, wouldn't you?

1173
01:08:37,480 --> 01:08:38,320
You'd put like a.

1174
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:39,440
Oh yeah, and actually.

1175
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:40,280
Bone leather or something.

1176
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:41,920
It's funny because I did,

1177
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:44,720
a few years back for a friend of mine,

1178
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,160
did, helped her out with her kitchen layout.

1179
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,320
And we did a bench seat, a curved bench seat

1180
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:52,960
on the end of the island with a round table in it.

1181
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,480
And I, in fact, we specified one of Sunbury's fabrics.

1182
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:57,680
Alan did it for us.

1183
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,440
And he, yeah, we specified a Sunbury fabric for that reason.

1184
01:09:02,440 --> 01:09:03,760
And also I think it had the.

1185
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,840
Oh God, I've completely forgotten what it was called.

1186
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:09,480
Not Scotchgard.

1187
01:09:09,480 --> 01:09:11,320
Aquacline.

1188
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,280
And it was, it had got the Aquacline treatment in it.

1189
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,560
And it, and I said to her, you know,

1190
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,640
we need to look at that because it's right

1191
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:19,560
at the end of the island.

1192
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,720
You know, you're using it day in, day out.

1193
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:23,480
You don't want to be, you know,

1194
01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:25,680
having to deal with stains and stuff on it.

1195
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:26,520
So yeah.

1196
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:28,520
Yeah, I agree.

1197
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,840
Yeah, I've known James and his family for a long time.

1198
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,720
And they're really lovely people

1199
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,520
and they're just easy to work with.

1200
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,680
That's why I, that's why I think they're my main cast.

1201
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:39,920
Cause he's just really cool.

1202
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,560
I think that makes a massive difference, doesn't it?

1203
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,560
When you're, you know, dealing with a company

1204
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,440
that you know very well and you know that they,

1205
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:49,120
they do, they say what they, oh my God,

1206
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,360
they do what they say they do.

1207
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,040
And they're just easy to work with.

1208
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:54,400
That's kind of all we want, isn't it?

1209
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,120
From a design, you know, as a designer is just to.

1210
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,200
Yeah, if you get, to work with good people.

1211
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:00,680
If you want some camera examples from them,

1212
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,000
they do it quick and they just move.

1213
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,640
They keep a load of stock.

1214
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,000
Yeah.

1215
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,920
And their range is huge, isn't it?

1216
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,240
I mean, it's absolutely huge.

1217
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,600
And most of, I think one of the things I love about them

1218
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,440
is that I can trust that all of it is commercial.

1219
01:10:14,440 --> 01:10:17,960
So if I need to go, if I'm doing a commercial project,

1220
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:18,800
need it to be tough.

1221
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,560
You know that I don't even need to think about it

1222
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:21,400
when I'm working on some of the fabrics.

1223
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:22,720
Yeah, I agree, I agree.

1224
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:23,800
Yeah.

1225
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,320
Cause I know that they're all crib five

1226
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:26,960
and they're all really tough.

1227
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:27,800
Yeah.

1228
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,000
So whereas a lot of fabric companies do both, don't they?

1229
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,360
They do commercial and resi.

1230
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:32,200
Yeah, yeah.

1231
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,200
It just makes your job a little bit harder

1232
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:35,920
to kind of filter out the stuff

1233
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:37,880
and make sure what you're specifying is, you know,

1234
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,960
is suitable for the project you're working on.

1235
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,520
But yeah, that was cool.

1236
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:43,680
It was really good to catch up with him.

1237
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:44,520
Yeah.

1238
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:47,120
Yeah.

1239
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:47,960
Yeah.

1240
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:48,800
Yeah.

1241
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:49,640
Yeah.

1242
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:50,480
Yeah.

1243
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:51,320
Yeah.

1244
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:52,160
Yeah.

1245
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:53,000
Yeah.

1246
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:53,840
Yeah.

1247
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:54,680
Yeah.

1248
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:55,520
Yeah.

1249
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,000
If you liked this episode,

1250
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,120
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1251
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,840
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1252
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,320
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1253
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,240
So if you guys have any ideas

1254
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:07,960
on what you'd like to hear us talk about

1255
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:09,560
or anyone that you'd like us to interview,

1256
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,360
then please do get in touch and we'll see what we can do.

1257
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:27,680
Gene, if you found this video informative,

1258
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:33,520
ad upend to the video for added support.

1259
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,840
I'm super excited because we can talk again

1260
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,240
and say thank you very much for Aaaand

1261
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:39,720
appeatelyotting a crowd