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Hi and welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. My name is Hayley Roy, I'm

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an interior designer, entrepreneur and owner of Harp Design and my co-host is...

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Hi, I'm Cheryl Sutton, I'm an interior and architectural designer, owner of Rebels Design,

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bit of a jack of all trades, maybe master of none.

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Master of interior design I think. Cheryl and I have been working together on and off

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for six years. Cheryl is one of my very few true friends in business.

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Excuse me for interrupting this little section. I just wanted to let you know the next part

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of the podcast, the sound isn't great. We rehearsed it a few times and the first time

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we did it, the sound was echoey but the content on this bit was the best one that we did because

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it was so raw. So we hope you enjoy it. Sorry about the sound, we have improved and you

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won't be hearing this again but we just needed you to hear this.

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So obviously this is the first podcast that we're doing. So rather than kind of catching

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up on what our week has been like, we thought it would just be easier if we give

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you guys a bit of an understanding about who we are, and tell you a bit about ourselves,

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how we got to do what we're doing now and hopefully you'll come to conclusion that we're

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actually worth, listening to. So I'm going to ask Cheryl some questions.

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I can go first? Yeah, you go first.

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Okay, right. So tell me a little bit about what led you into interior design and your

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whole career. Where to start? Okay, so I worked on yachts when I was 18- 21 years old, super

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yachts and I worked for Philip Green for My Sins and his wife, Lady Tina Green and Lady

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Green was really into interior design and, I used to have to get

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involved with some of the interior design on the yacht and I just loved it.

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Do you think that sparked your interest at that point? You were like...

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Yeah, yeah, that's when I reallyfond it, I came home and I helped a friend  fit out

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their flat, a new flat that they bought and I just loved it.

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I was just like in my element in Ikea, just buying throws and just organising things

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and yeah, that was when I really knew that I wanted to go into interior design also

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my dad has got a commercial interior fit out business or he did have at the time and I

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ended up working for him and got really into the interior design part of that and kind

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of got dragged into it a little bit too much and then when I decided that I didn't want

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to work for somebody else anymore and wanted to have my own business 10 years ago, I started

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Harp Design. So I've got a degree in business management and I've done loads of little interior

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design courses, nothing really to write home about but I read a lot so I like to learn

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and I like to learn from people as well so hence why this podcast suits me because I'm

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tapping into all the people that I know and I think people would like to hear

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from who have got good charisma and stuff so yeah, I'm excited.

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Right, what do you, what's my next question? Right, what would you say is your biggest

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challenge you face as a designer? Obviously you don't just do design though, do you?

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No, so I do design and project management and I do a little bit of web design and a

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bit of graphic design as well. So you're actually not just the only Jack, let's be

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honest. Yeah, so I started off, I actually was a freelance graphic designer when I was

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16. Oh wow I didn't know that. Yeah, just kind of playing about, well my dad taught me

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quite a lot when I was young because he was into computers and graphics and stuff so yeah,

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biggest challenge you face as either a designer, project manager or just in the role that you

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do currently in your career that you do now, biggest challenge? (Pause) People. So whether it's

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contractors or clients or you know, if there's

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no people there'd be no work. But yeah, I know people's different personalities and

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clashing, trying to keep people happy is I suppose, one of my biggest challenges.

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Like if you work with with more than one person, like if you work with a husband and

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wife team or two partners and they've both got different ideas of what they

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want and you're trying to keep those two people happy is a real challenge sometimes. You've

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got to try and kind of almost compromise and sometimes. If I'm in a house situation I do

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sometimes feel a little bit like a marriage counselor. But I love it because in the end you always

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end up with a good result out of it in the end and if you can make them both happy and

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you know that that's a challenge. Yeah, definitely. It actually has got quite, it makes you feel

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good at the end of it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Okay, last question would be what is, what

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has been your favorite project so far that you've worked on? Are you involved in? I think

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it's got to be Zuaya. Okay. Tell us a bit about that. Arian and Alberto Zandi approached me,

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oh it must be five years ago now. Arian and Alberto were in their early 20s at the time,

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hadn't opened a restaurant before, obviously had a bit of money from somewhere to invest

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and they were doing it as a business. Both of them really sparky, really full on, I love

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working for Arian and Alberto because they are so full on. But they had this brilliant idea,

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we went to Spain, we went to a few restaurants that they liked in Spain and did a little

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recci out there and then we came back and designed the restaurant. Perks of the job!.

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And then we came back and designed the restaurant and it was their first one and it's just done

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so well. I mean, they've been on telly with some of those celebrities,

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go dating I think. I think so, yeah. I haven't seen it, I should probably

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look at that. But yeah, and they've just done really well and the food is amazing. So the

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whole experience of going in there is just lovely. It's funny, isn't it? Because it's

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not even about your favourite project in terms of a design, in terms of what you've created.

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Actually, you're saying that actually that's your favourite project because you've delivered

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on something for a client and that they have succeeded. And that's where the, that's where

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that's the achievement, isn't it? That you can see how that has kind of catapulted them

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forward with other projects that they've opened since then.

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Yeah, I'm a massive believer of,  you can interior design

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a business, but you can't make that interior successful. That's a third. If you're doing

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a hospitality business, for example, that's a third of what needs to happen. A third is

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interior design. Another third is service and another third is the food and the product

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that you're serving. So, you know, it's, I can do the third, I can't deliver the other

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bits. And when someone does that so well, the Forge Kitchen is a perfect example of

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that as well.

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On mine!

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Your project, yes

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Oh, maybe that's on my favourite project. So that's up there for sure.

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I'll ask you your questions then.

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Yeah, go.

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Tell me about your career and what led you into interior design.

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So I started out, when I left college, I was always kind of arty anyway, really loved

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drawing, always loved sketching and stuff. Not that I find the time to do it anymore.

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So yeah, basically, leaving college, I got into kind of kitchen and bathroom design because

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it was just, you know, it was quite easy, for me it was quite easy to get into. And

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I really, that was my first experience of being able to actually design by myself and

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using, you know, software. And this was like, oh my god, this is so awful, but like 20 years

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ago or something.

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We're so old! 

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But yeah, so started out in kitchen and bathroom design and kind of it just developed from

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there. I mean, I have stopped and started along the way, as you know. You've known me

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long enough now to know that like, you know, I'll be like, yeah, I'm doing that. And then

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all of a sudden, like, no, change of plan, I'm going to go and sell cars. I'm going to

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go and like apply to be, I think I've told you about when I applied to be a wing walker

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on the utterly butterly aeroplane.

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You never told me about that!

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The stuff, yeah, honestly, the list of stuff.

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I've seen people have aeroplanes.

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They used to do like flight shows, air shows, they'd have planes that did like stunts and

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they have people standing on the top of the plane strapped to it. So I applied to be an

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utterly butterly plane, Acrobat or something. Anyway, yeah, then I started off in kitchen

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and bathroom design, it just evolved. And then, as Hayley mentioned earlier, like I decided to

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do my, well, I've got a degree in architecture. So I studied, I was a matured student because

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I did that probably about eight or nine years ago. I graduated about seven or eight years

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ago. And it's just all like, there's some, I think you just know there's something in

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you, but there's always been something in me.

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It needs to be done.

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There it comes!

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That's the worst thing I've ever said.  (way too much giggling)

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Anyway, sorry.

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Right, where was I going with that?

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Back in the kitchen!

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Can we leave that in?  (way too much giggling)

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I'm not sure I want, this is the third fucking episode!

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Anyway, so, no, when I was a kid, I used to go,  (way too much giggling) please stop. It's not even that funny.

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No, when I was a kid, I used to be, like, I was drawn towards places that were, I remember

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going to the beach with my mum, with my mum or with my dad. And there was like old, 

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back in the day when there was old derelict houses, like really derelict, falling apart,

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no floorboards, like roof was caved in. And I, as a small child at the beach, would be

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like, can I go in? I really want to go in. There was something about these, dilapidated

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buildings that I wanted to go and like explore and like look around, which is a bit weird.

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Isn't it? Maybe that's why I end up doing like really dark kind of edgy design, like,

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because it comes from this kind of concept of like really, really early years and stuff.

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But anyway, so yeah, architecture happened and got my degree there, which was really

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cool. And then I've worked with you, obviously, for a few, for quite a few years. And then

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for my sins, about a couple of years ago, I was like, right, let's go and set up Rebel.

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So I set up Rebel and here I am. Yeah. So next question. What is your biggest challenge

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you face as a designer? Did I ask you that question? Yes, I did. Oh my God. For me, my

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biggest challenge, I'm going to be really honest, the biggest challenge for me is trying

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to manage client expectations when it comes to, obviously, you know, you wanted to create

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a space and you want to do the best you can possibly do for, you know, what they're looking

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at. So if they come at you with a brief, they have an expectation of what they want and

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they want your interpretation of that brief. You want to, you want to wow them. You want

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to absolutely stun them with an incredible design. But there's a really fine line between

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that and when you're working to budgets. And obviously, everything has a budget, everything.

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Everyone is from, especially in business, from commercial and residential as well, you

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know, there is not a never ending pit of money. If only there was. And you can't have so much

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easier. Yeah, right. But you know, the client has to justify every decision that they're

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making in terms of design, whether it be from a commercial perspective, you know, operationally,

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it needs to pay back from a business point of view, or whether it's, you know, you've,

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you're doing your house and you've, you want an extension and you've been saving for years

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to make it happen or, or you've got funds in place to make it happen and you've only

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got, you know, a finite amount of cash. Like, it is really hard, and especially at the moment

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with the climate and with everything and the cost of cost of living one, but also just

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since COVID, the fact that material and labour and everything is just skyrocketing. I've

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had a project this week, which is double what we expected it to be. And that was three years

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ago, we looked at it. And you know, you what you don't want to be doing is you don't want

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to be, you know, being a designer is about being clever with design and, and not having

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to lower your standards from a design point of view just to make it fit the budget. Like

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it's a, that for me is my biggest challenge. And trying to explain that to clients and

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being quite, I have, you know, I'm quite direct about these things. Just my, but yeah, that's

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probably my biggest challenge. What has, what's your favourite project been so far? Oh, man,

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that's a really tough one because I, because obviously I've done stuff with you when I

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was working with you at HARP and obviously, you know, the forge kitchen in it, which stands

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out for me massively because I mean, like, that's a bit of me, isn't it? Yeah, that,

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like that look. And also I think that with that scheme, the, I mean, Grant and Robin

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were so much fun to work with. I love working with them. They were really, really great,

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really great clients. That makes all the difference, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely. But I think

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we were kind of like a little bit ahead of the game with that, with that look, that right,

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like it was quite industrial and you know, we were going back, we were probably going

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back like seven years ago. Yeah, no, there's still a trend, you know, and it's, I kind

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of feel like we were ahead of the game a little bit. I mean, obviously design always works

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like that anyway, doesn't it? It filters out of London, like, you know, it hits London

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first and then it takes a few, few months for it to filter out to the rest of the country

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and stuff. But so yeah, Forge was called, oh, I've earned loads, like Laura and Dan's

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house. I've helped them with Laura and Dan's house and I love that because, you know, that,

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that is my little baby. Like I've, you know, I've worked so closely with a friend of mine

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and they've trusted me, they've trusted me with it. Do you know what I mean? I'm so grateful

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that they've given me that opportunity to, to come up with that for them, you know, with

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their help, obviously, you know, and, and it's looking amazing. And I can't wait for

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them to be back in it and living in it and living it and being like, yeah, we did this,

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you know. Yeah. Too many, too many. What's your favourite part of your job? Oh, you didn't

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ask me this one, did you? No, I didn't. I don't know. What's yours? Moonboards. I love going

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into the library and going, oh, oh, I forgot, I forgot about that. And just like putting

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things together and like, for me, not all designers work this way because I've worked

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with loads of designers who've like gone, hey, you're doing it backwards. But like,

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I love, I think I said that to you. Yeah. That was me. What are you doing? This is the

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way my brain works. Okay. But I love just putting your moodboards together because for

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me, I can picture the whole project around it. You've said that to me before. So like,

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I can just put it all together and then go, right, I now know, I now know what to do.

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Take my moodboard and now I can pick it up. Is that weird? Because mine's completely

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the other way. Yeah. I have to have that general arrangement and that spatial layout done.

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And because that's key for me. And then for me, the next step is, okay, from that point,

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right, let's develop that and let's start like honing in on small, it's bizarre, isn't

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it? How we work so differently. So I literally can't wait. If I get a new project, I can't

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wait to get the library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're like, you're heading everywhere.

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I think for me, in all honesty, my favourite part, I think for me, if my job would be,

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and this is a really fine line, because there's, you know, there's balance with this, is when

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I have to work out, when challenges come up in jobs, when projects come, you know, are

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through fit out or, or even through design and something's not quite working, and I have

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to really kind of sit and go, right, okay, how are we going to deal with this? That sounds

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awful, doesn't it? Because I know, like, how is that enjoyable? I think it's, you're just

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really good at fixing things. I think it's enjoyable because it challenges, like, it

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really challenges me, it challenges me. But the fine line is, if a project is constantly

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one problem after another, at that point, I'm like, right, I'm done with this now. Too

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much. I want the pretty stuff in there. But if there's a few bits that we have to overcome,

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I get a lot out of that. And then it, and then it becomes, it kind of compounds the

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result. When I get to the end of the project's finished, I'm like, yeah, that's a good, that's

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a good, that is a good, like, that's almost like my second. Oh, my favourite, my favourite

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part is the end, isn't it? Come on, we like, oh, definitely, once it's all done, and you've

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got it all perfect, especially when you design and project manage something, because you've

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got the control all the way through. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, that's a bit about

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us. That's gone, oh my god, that's gone on for longer than I anticipated. And there was

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a big euphemism there at the front end. And yeah.