Hey guys, welcome back to the Homework Assembly podcast.
We're really excited today.
And we're really happy that Brad's here to join us.
Brad with the owner of AFT Construction.
If you guys haven't seen their stuff, you're going to be able to click the links below,
check out their entire portfolio, all the production, all the media content that they're
dropping.
It's just, it's honestly, it's everywhere.
It's outrageous.
And it's some really cool stuff.
And we're really excited to have you on.
So thanks for joining us.
Yeah, thanks, RJ.
Glad to be here.
So Brad, tell us a little bit about what AFT, who is AFT Construction?
Yeah, so our formal name is the Finder Touch Construction.
You know, it's kind of a long name there.
So we go by AFT, most of our social channels, they know us through social media as AFT.
And essentially we're a luxury builder in the greater Phoenix area, right?
So Scottsdale, you know, North Phoenix, Cave Creek down here to Gilbert, we're at right
now and serve most of the Phoenix area, you know, from a custom building standpoint.
You know, when we started, it's funny to see how, you know, companies pivot.
So like early on, we did probably heavier commercial than residential.
Now it's showing the other way that we're heavier residential than commercial and definitely
have shown kind of the automation, the organization, that customer experience.
And so, you know, our process adapts really well to like the high and clientele who are
used to a certain amount of service and communication and process.
And we spent a lot of time kind of, you know, working on that process for our clients.
So that's awesome.
So you use a lot of commercial, what's the difference between commercial and residential?
Is it the clientele mostly?
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a different mentality in a few ways, right?
When you're in commercial, and don't get me wrong, like we've done some pretty nice commercial
stuff over the years.
And no matter at what level of the spectrum you're building from a budget standpoint,
we'll call it a commercial.
At the core, there's still a time, right?
Time is the big value there because whether you're working for a hotel, you know, whoever
the operator be a restaurant, brewery, I mean, it could be anything.
Like there's a timeframe that they need to be open because they're investing and now
they need to start generating revenue.
So that timeframe becomes really important.
And they don't, even though they may have nice finishes to some extent, they don't get
lost in the details of how a trim details terminating in a certain part of the bill.
Residential is a lot more emotional, right?
Clients travel, they have inspiration.
This could be, you know, their life's work investment into their personal home.
It could be a second or third home, regardless, they still have a level of execution and
quality and details.
It's a little bit more emotional.
There's a more personal touch working on their powder bath as opposed to community bath,
like at a commercial place.
So it's just that level of handholding, relationship, communication, you know, it's, the client's
definitely more involved, you know, on a residential bill.
So let me ask you to dig a little bit more into this.
So when I started our company, I had some family that were in construction stuff and
some friends and uncles and whatnot.
And they always were trying to try to give me to go more commercial because they're like,
it's just easier and it's like you have less worry with the client, kind of like what you're
talking about.
There's no one really cares that much about the details like they would on the residential.
They're still care, but it's a little bit different, right?
So why did you guys choose to go to residential if you were already kind of doing quite a
bit of commercial?
Yeah, it's a really good question.
You know, when, before I started my company, I worked for a high end commercial company.
I mean, we did Pine Luxury.
We worked on the Omni Monalusia is probably one of the most signature projects that I
worked on in Paradise Valley on Lincoln and Tatum.
And so we kind of worked in a more luxury brand, but keep in mind, commercial, one of
the big separators and always laugh that in residential, it's like the Wild West, right?
So when you go to commercial, you're dealing with subcontractors that are super established.
Lot of our subcontractors had two, 300 employees.
Yeah, big companies.
Yeah.
You go to residential, they may have four or six, you know, the husband and wife or,
you know, the owners of the company are typically working in the company.
And so we're on getting as a commercial side, it's very system driven, right?
System protocol, project management, like that whole experience is totally different,
how they're wrapping it out.
And you know, so because we had a background doing that and we had a lot of understanding
and a lot of my team has worked in high end commercial, you know, that process now bleeds
in residential.
And so we've kind of found this niche where on the residential side, especially as you're
getting into the high dollar product, our clients expect that, right?
They've ran companies, most of them are successful entrepreneurs, and they expect that same level
of service that they had building their company from their builder.
You know, the old days of, you know, the pickup truck builder doesn't really equate
to what the client's expecting now.
And so how we kind of got into this niche was that, yeah, we have, you know, over the
years with the software we use and the staff that we have that we've really worked on our
systems and automation and communication.
And that's kind of integrated into bringing on that high end client tell that if anything
kind of gives them a taste of what it's like having a commercial project, however, it's
applicable to like a residential high end build.
Okay.
That's awesome.
So I think something that goes around that one touch based on that every business owner
really deals with whether they're in construction or not is the clients that maybe sometimes
when there's an issue or whatnot, there's a problem and some clients are very hard to
handle.
And the reason I'm bringing that up is so I know, I noticed in my company, as we grow
in revenue and we grow up to some of those higher end homes, you mentioned that the homeless
are a lot more emotionally involved into it, right?
So when something goes wrong, it's sometimes it's really big and it's really hard to put
ourselves in the client shoes and like us, I'm like, Hey, I know there's a solution here.
I get it.
I understand it, but they're just over the top just upset about it.
How do you handle clients that may earn upset clients so to speak in your business at the
level you're at?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think empathy and just business and life in general, right?
Any relationship, whether it's your spouse, kids, coworkers, employers, or I'm sorry,
customers like empathy goes a long way to really understand, right?
And you know, being around other entrepreneurs like, you know, the value of listening becomes
really important, not just listening, but coming into meetings prepared like, Hey, what
do you want to get out of this meeting, right?
And setting that standard so they won't kind of communicate your goals.
But to answer your question, like I just had this this morning where I met with a client
this morning on the empathy side, understanding kind of why they're in this position, hearing
them out.
And I've always been in a position where, you know, we never want to make decisions for
our clients, we never want to spend our clients money for us, it's always about presenting
options for our clients and then letting them make the decision, right?
But really at the core of where these relationships go sideways, at least in my experience over
the last 11 years, one of my businesses that typically we've failed at some point to set
clear expectations.
And whether it's in pre-construction or the build, not having clear expectations with
the client leads to these issues.
And so we've really worked on understanding, I think as a builder, you have to understand
what it takes from that initial fill phone call, the inquiry, right?
To the client moves in and then just surface in a matter.
But what does that journey look like?
Like what are all the steps?
You have to map that out and really understand it.
And then from there, you can build the communication channels, the process and decision making to
really keep the client on task because our whole job as a builder is to be the guide,
right?
Take them through this really tough experience.
And so if we understand what it takes to build a home and we can communicate that effectively
and lay that out, it'll prevent a lot of those issues and then have operating procedures
that we don't break, right?
Like for me, I'm not going to do a project without interior designers.
So I know that if I deviate from that, it's going to cause issues because I've already
been through this before.
And so we have to have standard protocol and then we're leading our client to explain to
them the value of certain consultants and professionals and to make that a better process.
Right.
Yeah, I think, you know, touched on that, like when a few years ago, when I would work
with clients, I always felt like it was one side of the client was like, you're the general
contractor and you need to do this.
And like, I expect you to provide everything in the full service rather now we know and
understand that it's a team effort.
Like there is like, there's so much responsibility on the client side, you know, figuring out
what they want, understanding what they want related, you know, transferring that over
to us so we can provide it.
And when there's not that good communication both sides, the whole project just kind of
goes goes array, right?
So well, 20, because like, I mean, to your point, RJ, I look back at my experience and
you don't know what you don't know.
So client comes in saying, RJ, will you do this?
And you're like, yeah, no problem.
And then you're like, yeah, I just put myself in a horrible position.
And that's happened to me so many times because you just don't know.
But what I'm getting in is that I, once you understand risk, cost, you know, timeframe,
all these different aspects, it's easy for me when a client has a concern about something,
I can communicate effectively because I understand, hey, if we don't do this, here's what's going
to happen because I've already experienced that, right?
Or my peers have that I network with so networking is a powerful but you know, we know the red
flags, we know the issues, we know the pitfalls of a build.
And so if something starts going sideways, we can call time out, you know, meet with
the client or at least address it so it doesn't get to that point.
It's just the problem is, as a new build, you just don't know until you learn that you've
made the mistakes and you've paid for those mistakes.
But at least now, you know, with the team we have, we understand what that process looks
like and so we can lay it out better for the client.
So you're being proactive rather than reactive, right?
And I think that's a big important process in every business that a lot of people miss
out on.
They just kind of wait and then the problem arises and they solve it, but then they don't
do anything to proactively avoid that situation going forward and then they continually go
through that cycle, right?
So well, kind of a precursor going back a little bit, you're talking about, you know,
how you deal with your wife and clients and your family as well.
So how is your business, how does the way you run your business correlate with the way
you run your household and vice versa?
Do they do they intersect?
Is there, you know what I mean?
Like how does that?
That's a good question.
You know, I think those that know me, tease me in the sense that, you know, I think,
you know, most of us that are entrepreneurs are pretty A type like that's going to be
part of it.
So you have the A type side and then we're typically delegators in some way.
Yeah.
You know, it could be bossy at some points.
You know, they tease me that I'll do with a smile like I'll smile at someone's I'm
bossing around.
And so that doesn't always equate to like personal life, you know, my wife and kids,
like there has to be a whole different approach.
So for me, there's definitely a different hat you're wearing at work as opposed to what
you're wearing at home.
And you have to find the balance.
And the problem as an entrepreneur just being realistic is that it bleeds over.
Right.
There's never a clean break between, oh, I just got down to work.
I'm leaving it there.
Yeah.
Clocking out and going in the house, especially as the owner of a business that just, you
know, it doesn't turn off.
So you just have to find the balance to understand, you know, who needs the attention at home
and put a focus there and communicate differently than I would at the office.
And so, yeah, you just kind of learn, you know, I'm older now, you know, so it helps
having been, you know, my profession for 20 years now to kind of understand, you know,
how to balance that a little bit more.
So for a entrepreneur that's trying to find a better balance or trying to figure out how
to have some sort of balance, where do they start?
Do they start in the business, getting that organized or do they start in the household?
Like what advice you have there?
Yeah, it's a good question.
I mean, the reality is you have to understand, like if you're going to be an entrepreneur,
like it doesn't shut off.
Like, even if you get to the point where you're hiring people, you still have the stress and
anxiety of, right, backlog and sales and execution and turnover and everything that comes with
running a company.
So as an entrepreneur, it's definitely going to be poorly balanced in the beginning because
you're wearing a lot of hats, right?
You may not have the revenue, you may not have the ability to hire people yet to take
some of those responsibilities.
But even if you're a one person show, at the beginning, you should still understand that
org chart, right?
If you're wearing all the hats, understand when you touch each hat and what that role
is, you know, write it out, understand that scope of work so that as you hire, you can
delegate that off and really have clear distinction where most companies fail is it when they're
hiring that baton, there's too much overlap, there's too much double work, there's no clear,
concise information on what that job scope is for the employee and people get frustrated,
right?
It's hard to retain people.
And so getting back to the balance side, I mean, you're never going to have balance
in the beginning.
Ideally, you can find some sort of balance, but that balance is still kind of a weird
word because, you know, as an entrepreneur, you're always involved in the business.
Always, and it won't change.
And so, yeah, you may have some more flexibility in the years to come where you, you know,
middle of the day, you're going to kids sporting event, you know, maybe you have some extra
vacation that you're spent with the family, but at the same point, you get back to the
hotel at night and you're working, right?
When the kids are asleep or you're up early before the family's awake.
And so you're balancing, you know, that differently later as opposed to just grinding in the office
of the field, you know, for those first couple of years.
How was your first couple of years?
Yeah, probably similar to most people.
I mean, it's like, you know, when you're starting a young company, you're trying to figure out,
first you have to get work, which is really tough.
And you have to get people to take a chance on you being in business.
You have to, you really, at least for me, I didn't really understand, you know, value
my value.
I didn't understand how to price a job properly.
And I knew how to price it from the subcontractor side to make sure as a general, you know,
where you have all the costs.
It's just what my fee should be.
My costs, you know, to run this and actually make a living to make sure I'm covering my
overhead.
And so that's the biggest struggle is that you weren't a lot of hats.
So I'm trying to do marketing.
I'm trying to do accounting to some extent, you know, I'm in the field running projects
as a superintendent.
I'm trying to do business development.
So you're just wearing all these hats.
Yeah, doing so many things.
And so that's pretty common for everyone.
And then you get to the point where you can make a hire, another hire.
But even then, I mean, it takes years to where you can really get that momentum and the right
people and then start training and then really start evaluating, you know, the company organization.
Okay.
So how long has AFT been in business?
In March and two months, we'll hit 11 years.
So we started March.
Yeah, March 20.
Yeah, 2013.
That's awesome.
So what advice for people that are starting their journey in business?
Because obviously we've all been there.
And looking back, we probably really wish we knew what we know now.
Like everybody else does.
What advice do you have for people starting out in a business or starting a business,
but also starting a family at the same time?
Okay.
Sorry.
Maybe we'll just look at the business side first.
So if you're starting a business, I'd say no matter what your business is, something
that's called the light bulb hits on, whatever.
It took me a long time to understand that I'm a business owner that happens to focus
on construction.
And that took a long time to understand is that in any field, whatever it is, you need
to understand the business.
And this goes back to like since I made construction, I need to understand what that roadmap looks
like for my client.
But more importantly, what does it look like for me and my company?
How do we meet payroll?
How do we, succession plans down the road?
Like you have to understand the business side of running the company because there's always
a saying that like a really good builder that's bad at business will always fail.
Interesting.
And a bad builder who's good at business will always stay in business.
And so ideally we're all going to be good builders, but at the core of it, you have to
understand business.
So this is where most companies fail.
And so from the business side, you have to understand that now going back to the question
of like that balance side, it's just really tough to have a balance and understand how
to wear both those hats.
It's just going to be, you have to understand that if you're going entrepreneur, when you're
an employee, you kind of just see your box, right?
There's maybe different areas of the company you're touching, but you don't see the whole
picture.
I didn't as a point.
I thought I did.
But the minute you're an owner, you're over everything.
And so you just have to understand that there is a sacrifice because you only have so many
buckets that you can put, you know, that you can fill up.
And so if I'm found out this bucket, I can't do here.
So there is, especially those early years, I can have a whole lot of time.
Like it's not like you start a company and you just get all this personal time with your
family.
It just doesn't work that way.
Yeah.
There's sacrifice.
Yeah.
100%.
So when you first started your company, so obviously kind of backtracking, you worked for a company,
a high-end commercial company, right?
And then you somewhere in between left that and began AFT, right?
So what decisions led you to decide that you actually wanted to build AFT construction?
Yeah.
I think entrepreneurs are either born entrepreneurs or they're forced into it.
And so I'll take it that I was forced into it, right?
It just, you know, and I've done a podcast on this, I have a YouTube video on this too,
on my channel.
I did construction management up at BYU and I finished in 2005, moved to Phoenix, worked
for doing production homes here in Gilbert for a year.
And then I went to work for the high-end commercial for, you know, five and a half years.
And at that time, you know, Mark was pretty slow, was planning going back to get my MBA.
So I took the GMAT, I was going back to grad school.
And just life, life's tough.
Like it just, you know, I've a lot of empathy towards anybody.
You know, I went through a tough time and found myself as a single father with three daughters
at the time.
And, you know, at the time that I'm supposed to start grad school and because of that, I
just knew it wasn't an option being a single dad to say, okay, I'm going to go bring my
three daughters and start grad school.
It just wasn't feasible and I never made it back.
And so AFT was started.
And, you know, I don't want to say I had reservation, but I knew how hard construction was and having
lived through that recession 2008, because it came minus is like 2011, 12, you know,
AFT started 2013.
So I mean, that is five years there that I was not throwing the bad market.
Yeah.
No, you're a little young RJ, but for us, old guys, 2008 to 13, it was, it was rough.
It was really hard.
And so I knew going into construction, I'm like, you know, stability anyways.
And, but, but it's what I knew is what I felt I was good at.
And so it was a grind.
I mean, like I, like I tell most people, it wasn't, you know, six or seven years of building
AFT before we started making headway and momentum and, you know, getting the right people, getting
the right projects and building to what we have today.
But you know, people look at it now and this is, you know, 20 year journey overnight success,
you know, overnight success over 20 years.
Like it just doesn't, it doesn't happen in the, you know, in the back.
And there's years of experience there.
And it's really the last four or five years we've taken off and it, you know, but those
first, you know, seven or quite the work.
So when you started AFT, was it successful profiting from day one?
No, no.
So just like anyone, and that's why I say you got to understand business because I didn't,
I didn't understand all the ins and outs of business and understanding how to leverage,
you know, and, you know, different, the value of banking relationships and so many different
aspects.
So I mean, look, as a company, I mean, most companies, especially in construction, I mean,
in construction, and not all kind of depends.
I mean, there's some, there's always those variables depending on if you're starting
in a good market.
I mean, keep in mind Phoenix was still not a great market.
Yeah.
2013, I mean, Phoenix was so slow to get back, even as a nation was coming back in recovery.
I mean, 2017, 2018 was still not that great for most, most builders in Phoenix, including
us.
So you're thinking that's five years that you're barely grinding through, barely covering
payroll.
You're barely covering overhead.
And it wasn't until we got some signature projects and then you build on that.
And even then, it was a couple of years after that, you really understand, you know, how
to plan.
So it just, you know, I wish it was easier, but I will say at that time, this is pre-social
media, Instagram hasn't started yet.
And so I didn't have the network I have now.
And I think what the advantage like you RJ, where you're good, you know, that's how we
met is that you're really good about reaching out to other builders and understanding.
And taking business coaching and all these things that I did not take advantage of that
I should have.
And had I done that, yeah, we could be in a better position than we were, I'm sure as
a company financially, you know, at that point.
Well, so, okay, so obviously you had some tough times when you first started your business,
right?
And everybody does.
It's just part of life.
What kept you going through those tough times?
No, I'm a super competitive person.
And so at the core of it, it wasn't just competitiveness, but I mean, that is part of it.
I think there's no doubt a driver.
I mean, I, you know, fortunately I was raised in a family where I saw my parents, they were
super hard workers and that work ethic has been instilled in me from a young age.
So my siblings are the same, like we're all hard workers and we don't stop.
Like, and all my siblings are that way.
But I think, you know, when you, when you're a few things here, one, you know, I had, you
know, I love my kids, right?
So I, as the supporter of my children, like I had no choice but to be successful.
I can't fail, right?
I'm raising kids.
I mean, at the time when I started AFT, my daughters were, you know, let's think they
would have been, you know, like nine, seven and four.
So it's like they're little, you know?
And so that, that's a big part of it.
But I would say what drove me is that even in the times those first five years when we
weren't making money and we weren't getting the project we felt we deserved or could handle
as a strategy, like I, I don't know what it is.
And maybe it's just like me personally, but I always have a vision of like where we're
going as a company and where we're going to be.
So even though we're kind of laying the groundwork here years ago, I had my focus here and then
here and kind of it's just like anyone who's looking at like scaling Everest, right?
You're never going to just look at the peak.
You're going to look at that next step, but you know, you're going to the peak because
the peaks then go there, you know, as you get to the summit, but there's these little
benchmarks along the way that you're, you're working towards.
And so I just knew that I was marketing towards not what we were doing today, but what we're
going and I knew that we would get there because of, you know, client feedback and experience.
And it just takes time for that reputation and momentum, you know, to hit on all cylinders.
So what is a vision for AFT?
I'm curious.
Yeah.
Have you gone there or is there something greater you're going to?
Oh, no, yeah.
We have our core values and our vision and everything, but I think for me it's, it's,
it's, I'm a builder in every aspect.
And what I mean by that, not just a builder of temporal items such as homes and buildings,
but building people, right?
And building companies.
So we have different companies we've started, you know, when you think about the streams
of revenue there to keep that going, you know, building people.
So I look at, you know, our team, we're at 26 employees and I'm sure you're to ask any
of them.
I feel that our company culture is unique to any company in the industry.
Right.
We just don't have really any turnover.
People come, they stay, they're part of the AFT family.
And so building our people, and I think that's a key success and leadership is not seeing
people as they are, but who they can become.
Yeah.
It's the same thing as business, right?
Not as your business is, but where it's going to go.
The same with people.
And so building people and, you know, letting them discover their superpowers, if you will,
and kind of, you know, see them grow through that, you know, that, that to me is like the
legacy.
So, so not so much building homes, but building people.
That's way better.
And I love building homes like Don't Get Wrong.
We built some amazing homes and we work for some amazing clients.
But like, when I go to bed at night, like the joy, like we've had our company party
and, you know, just to be in that room where you're sitting there and you have 26 employees
with their significant others, and you have this company and they're there and every one
of them include their spouses.
Like so many of their spouses had reached out to me saying, Hey, you know, my spouse,
I've seen a change in them since working at AFT.
It's like they're better at home.
They're happier.
They're more motivated.
You know, I have employees that have been, you know, texting me on, on going on this
like, you know, we met at the gym.
They're like on this health journey that they're going through and getting healthier in their
life.
To me, that's like the most valuable thing to see people change their lives to be better
people.
And I think that just, it doesn't just happen.
I think the core of like our culture, like everyone's competitive.
Everyone inspires each other and everyone's driven to be good family people, good at
work, good with clients, and it just bleeds into just a healthy amount of competition
and camaraderie.
So obviously with that love for, you know, building people, building businesses and,
and changing lives, obviously there's the other part of business, which is making money
to live.
You touched base on that.
So how do you, so you talk about your value, right?
And this is something everybody has, that has a business has dealt with at one point,
but trying to figure out what you're worth, right?
And have you ever felt that you're charging, you felt like you were charging too much than
what you were, you felt you were worth, if that makes sense?
That's a good question.
Actually, I've probably always charged too less, right?
Because like, so I think always to get the job, I charge less.
I think now it's probably a healthy balance there.
But what I will say to that point is what I've always, and again, maybe this is the focus
of again, that summit aspect.
Is that whenever I've hired people, I understand that there's an investment, right?
And so employees are assets, not liabilities.
And a lot of employers in my experience have looked at what they pay people, and they're
like, this is a huge cost.
I could save money.
They look as low hanging fruit that if you cut that aspect, you're going to make more
money.
But what they're short-sighted is that when you have good people that are well compensated
and committed, the brand's better because you have people that understand the brand
and the company, they are bettering it.
I'm sure you can attest that if I have a super that's built 15 homes as opposed to one that's
built three, that one of 15 has been through a lot and can be more efficient, which leads
to better projects.
And so I found that when you invest in your people and the right people, that puts you
in a position to win better projects.
And so for you to continue as a brand, you have to have the right people, right training,
and that allows you to qualify for these better projects.
And so for me, it's always an investment.
You invest in your people, and then that dividend pays down the road with profitability and
better projects.
And one of the things I've always lived by is two things.
One, prosperity, or I'm sorry, generosity precedes prosperity, and that goes back to
the core of it, right?
And I'll give an example of why that was.
And then the second thing is that you chase experience, not money.
And so I've always in my career life just chase experience and opportunity, not money.
Money will come, right?
And that's true as an employee, like chase experience, get the talents and the skill
set and that's what I did.
And then you know that the money will always come down the road.
Getting back, when I was young, just out of college, 25, I remember I was working for
this production builder.
And when you're on a production, I think we had 11 or 12 superintendents and there are
probably like five or six sales people that were there selling these semi-custom homes.
And one of them was Martin Ono.
So like every week, we would meet with our sales reps and kind of go through all the
progress of the projects.
And they had to bring their deal was just a requirement that they would bring us breakfast.
So five of the salesmen would always bring, you know, like a bag of cold Egg McMuffins
or something, you know, just a couple of hash browns, some Egg McMuffins, there you go.
We had one salesperson that like Martin, he would come in and he would have this huge
spread like that time is paradise bakery for their product.
And we'd have like quiches and yogurt parfaits and all kinds of amazing stuff.
He would take us to like the Chandler airport.
We go to hangar, you know, for breakfast and on my birthday.
And remember, I'm just out of college, not being paid a lot.
It was my birthday.
It comes out, gives me a handshake and it gives me a hundred dollar bill.
And he was always like Brad generosity, proceeds prosperity.
That was like his mantra.
And everybody like he was the one of the most generous people I've ever met in every way.
And people just always worked harder because they could see that.
And so I just got to watch that he motivated me.
He motivated those around me to just be better people because he was just so kind and generous
with everything he had.
And that led to him always getting the best clients, the best projects, the best sales.
He was the number one person in sales.
And the differentiator was that he just, you know, there was a generosity, you know,
he's a super generous person.
And as an employer, if your employees feel that you're always going to go to bat with
them, that you're always generous, you're always looking out, not just from a financial
side, but from a personal health and wellness side, they're always going to go to bat for
you, which means we're going to bat for your clients.
So that's, that's amazing.
And you know, what's interesting is I've heard that before growing up quite a few times.
And yet when I began my business journey, I for some reason had in my mind that money
is always a motivator when people to get people to work harder to get people to enjoy the
work more, you just got to pay more, you just got to pay more.
Now I know that that statement is so true because money isn't always a motivator for
employees or for people.
And a lot of times it's not even the motivator for the business owner.
We talk about commissions, right?
Like what's a commission?
A commission is a reward or something that's earned for doing something.
And that could be having a family, right?
Commission for being able to get your wife to marry you.
They have children, right?
That's a commission.
And so when you start breaking it down like that, I think that changes the perspective
of every business owner's company understanding that, hey, money isn't always the answer to
thing.
It's love and generosity or creating an amazing environment, amazing, you know, team camaraderie.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Camaraderie.
And it's not always the money.
The money will always follow.
So that's that spot on.
That's absolutely fantastic.
That's right.
Because you think about culture of a company.
I mean, it really comes down to two things.
All the studies that have happened, one, like your employees have to believe in the brand.
So they have to believe in the product, right?
Whatever the product that you're selling, they have to have a belief system and what
that is, that they're making a difference in whatever way that is.
And the second thing is they have to feel valued, right?
They have to feel that when they come to work, they know how they're going to be held accountable.
They have clear understanding of what their job role is.
So people understand their role.
They understand that they're being held accountable and that they believe in the product and all
these things.
You can have ideal customer culture.
I mean, that just goes or company culture.
Yeah.
And then you add on the icing to the core, right?
And that is the pay and the benefits and the PTO and, you know, the relationship between
all of you.
I mean, all those things add on.
But at the core, that's what employees want.
And money is important.
If you create a system where or a company where there is that friendship and family
feel and, you know, where everyone's working to help each other and they can come in with
ideas and they're, people actually listen and they're implemented and people felt heard.
I mean, that's really when you really gain so much traction.
So I have a quick question and this might be more of a personal question, but what is,
if there is a key, what is the key to being proud of what you've built and enjoying the
benefits of what you've built, which is a successful company and being seen as prideful?
That makes sense.
And I'll explain.
So I've seen a lot in some of the businesses that my friends have built and I've experienced
this in my businesses.
Once you start actually becoming a little successful and you gain success in building
what you're building, then come some of the benefits like, hey, well, you're making good
money, right?
You're getting, you know, people are knowing who you are.
You're building your online presence, social media.
People are seeing the stuff you're building.
You're in magazines or people are paying you money to come in and teach them what you know,
right?
So a bit of fame, so to speak.
And then it's like, okay, well, now how do you project yourself really enjoying like,
how do I put this?
For example, what's your dream car?
And maybe this is easy.
I don't have one like it's just, yeah.
And maybe that's a funny answer.
I have an F-150.
My wife has an expedition and that's the extent of it, you know.
Okay.
So like, for example, what if your dream car was a Lamborghini?
Would you feel weird driving a Lamborghini to your work every day where you have your
employees?
Okay.
Why?
I'm curious as well.
Well, you know, I think, you know, and it's not that there's anything wrong with driving
a Lamborghini, right?
Again, I don't want this to seem like some pretentious person.
I don't know these, just what to say.
I think at the core, just everyone's different when it drives them, right?
And so for me, as I mentioned, like my driver is people.
So going back to your success thing, I think, you know, I'm trying to understand hopefully
the question and answer right, but no, but, but essentially I mentioned that for me, my
legacy is building people, right?
And so, so that's my driver that at the end of the day, yeah, the money may come.
And you know, we, ideally we have a great opportunity to support my family and my kids,
you know, in future of our family, but, but that's not my driver.
That's a byproduct of what we're doing and accomplishing at AFT, right?
And so yeah, you, at some point, yeah, maybe I do have a Lamborghini.
You know, I don't think just me personally, based on how I operate, I would have drive
it every day, but I'm not opposed to if someone's been successful, like they shouldn't show
the fruits and the labors.
I mean, then the day my clients all do, I'm glad that they do because they invest in nice
homes and that generates thousands of jobs for me, my employees, my subcontractors, suppliers,
trade partners.
So, so there's value there on people that are willing to invest and use that.
So do you think enjoying the fruits of your labor affects your relationship with employees
as they see that happen?
I can't, but I think it can, but and I'll answer that because I think I have a little
clarity to answer kind of my perspective on that, but it can.
And the, where that can be splintered is again, what is at the core?
And I'll give you a good example.
So for me, a couple of things.
So I may not say, hey, I want to drive a Lamborghini, but I grew up super blue collar, like many
of us, right?
And none of this was gifted.
I had to earn it just like a lot of us do.
And so where I grew up super blue collar, like everyone knows I'm a huge Jordan fan,
like a driver, like 200 pairs.
Yes.
But the funny thing is like when I grew up, I'd get one pair from Payless Shoe Source.
That was my deal.
My parents had the funds and I was the oldest of six kids.
So every year we get a new pair of shoes.
And so for me, that's my thing is to have nice shoes.
Cause I never had nice stuff, right?
Which is okay.
But, but then when you cross that over, so for me, I'm in that care as much about Lamborghini,
but like I love to travel and I want to travel nice places and go to Europe and go with my
family.
Maybe there's a bougie element that I want to sleep in the pod as opposed to sitting coach.
And so we all have things, right?
That drive us.
And for me, it's time.
It's vacation.
It's time for my family.
But here's, here's a good example.
So for me, I haven't built my own house yet, right?
Then in my professional career, 20 years, every builder's building their own house.
And for me, I was always putting my focus on the company and building the company and
building the people.
And we're finally at a position where we're going to break ground on our house in two
months.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
It's going to be an amazing home and it'll be a great model home.
Like I kind of wanted to wait till we could do something that's really the equivalent
of the stuff we build, you know, model, craft.
I mean, there's, I didn't want to go too early, but really what I'm getting at is that I was
a little bit nervous about telling my employees we're building our house, right?
Because this goes back to your question.
So I was like, how do I address, I'm building my personal house.
How's that feedback going to be with my team?
And the funny thing is, is that now all of them know we're doing it.
They're all excited.
They all want to be involved in some extent of the house.
They all want to be at the groundbreaking.
And every employee, the feedback has been, we've been building for AFT and for customers.
It's finally time that we get to build Brad's house.
That's awesome.
And so I think most employees, if you've built it right and they understand kind of where
you, like your goal and your vision, then they will always support that.
If I were to drive McLaren, I'm sure all of you want to want to just drive it.
But keep in mind, there were years there of building that commitment and friendship and
leadership and camaraderie and, you know, vision and everything that goes into it that
now allows them to enjoy us having success, all of us, if that answered it.
That was perfect.
I've listened to like one, I've listened to every single one of your podcasts.
Obviously, I've listened to Ed and my life, all these great people have built great companies.
And I've never heard people really talk about this.
And I always wondered because it is a thing, right?
So like, no matter what, as a business owner, no one's ever going to earn more than the
owner period, right?
I mean, maybe at certain times because you're investing back in the company or whatever
the case is, but from the most part, it's like, man, how do you enjoy some of that?
Like you said, like, okay, I'm building my house now.
Like, what is my team going to think?
So that was really, that was perfect.
And again, that was more of a personal question.
I was kind of curious about it.
So I thought that was fantastic.
So yeah, and you know, it's interesting.
But again, what's tough about construction is like, for the drive of Lamborghini clients
house, they may not hire us, right?
Just to reality of it, you know, I had a client that I was parked in front of the house and
there was a Tesla, it wasn't mine.
And the client actually said, if that was your Tesla, I want to hire you.
But that was kind of an odd comment.
But yeah, but regardless, you know, you know, and so there's always a balance.
You know, on our profession.
But at the same time, I think, you know, it's kind of like people don't care, people don't
care how much you know until they know how much you care, right?
And so as an employer, if they know you care about them and that they're, you've always
invested in them, then at the end when there is, you know, opportunity for you as owner,
most of them will be happy for you.
That reminded me as we were talking about Lamborghini, who was Nick at your summit was
talking about one of the builders who built the house for Drake and for his name, right?
And he pulled up in like a Lamborghini with his cheetah pseudo.
They just reminded me of that.
That was funny.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Well, I think he was a designer actually.
Oh, was he the designer?
Okay, cool.
So what they can do.
It makes a little more sense.
Designs and realtors can do that.
It's tougher for us.
One more blue collar.
Yeah, exactly.
That's fantastic.
Well, yeah, basically, I was just, I was wanting to kind of dissect different areas through
your kind of journey.
Because obviously you have, I mean, you've been in business for 13 years, but at what
point did your business actually start creating its name for itself?
Like when you started to really get known?
Yeah, I think it was probably, you know, fortunately for us, you know, Instagram started
taking off and for me, it's really tough to compete.
When I started my company, I didn't have, you know, there were certain projects I was
trying to chase and architects and designers trying to work with and really couldn't make
any headway in their office and getting, you know, to the desk of the owner to get work
reciprocated.
And so it got to the point where I'm like, okay, social media is an avenue for me.
So I started publishing our work, you know, our, the quality of our work, the thought
leadership, you know, why we do what we do.
And I started building reputation.
So I'd say it's probably like 2018, 2019.
Okay.
The things started picking.
Five or six years.
Yeah, the people started seeing who we were, started making a little bit of a dent here
in town nationally.
And then you kind of get some signature projects and then it kind of puts you on the map and
then we're here now, but it definitely was a long journey.
And even to the point where we had to, you know, it just takes time to build that reputation.
That's funny.
And because, so I met with Alicia Taylor, she's a designer you work with.
Yeah.
And she said, yeah, they, you know, they've been doing some really big things been around,
you know, five or six years.
And there wasn't any point to what she said, but she had mentioned a timeframe and you're
mentioning the same timeframe and it's funny that no, like people don't ever get to see
the whole backend.
Yeah.
They don't get to see the inside of the business owner's life, the back end of what it took
to build before you even got to be known for what you do.
Cause it doesn't start from day one.
So that's kind of why I was kind of dissecting a little bit of your life to really see how
it's been for you as a business owner, as you've created one of the most renowned construction
companies in the state of Arizona, probably the nation.
So I mean, it's been fantastic to see what you guys have done and you've been a great
example for, for me and our company.
It's been absolutely phenomenal.
So well, I want to thank you for coming on today.
So it's been absolutely,
I do want to ask a question while we're talking about the name and building a name for yourself.
I'm curious and I know RJ is curious.
We've talked about it a hundred times when building a name for yourself, obviously branding
is huge and all the whole entire title of your company is in lower case.
Did you do that on purpose?
So I'll ask, okay, I'll answer that.
You want me to like lead into it?
Yeah.
I'm actually curious.
Do you want to ask it?
How do you edit this?
I don't know how you edit it.
Go ahead.
I think it's pretty slow.
Yeah, I think you're good.
So yeah, so the logo here, so it's interesting, a finer test construction.
So this is kind of funny when it's you thinking about marketing, like I'm kind of obsessed
with marketing, right?
And so when you see our branding like here, we have the A and there's an F and a T, right?
It's all.
It's all the comments just on a logo, A and F and T all together.
But the funny thing is whenever you have alphabetical order list, which happens in voting best
builder, it happens in different charts.
If you have a company that's like AAA, like AAA, you know, A and then a space and then
finer always puts you number one.
Interesting.
So like if you, if you start your company with the A and then a space, you're always
going to be at any list number one always.
Interesting.
So that's kind of the core now.
All lowercase just happens to be that because it's just kind of clean.
I mean, I have another model logo we've done a few different logos and colors.
This of course blends with the shirt.
But at the core, it's just, you know, that's kind of the theme.
Like, and we actually just went through a rebrand a few months ago.
We rebuilt our website and you can see the color palette.
Looks great, by the way.
Yeah.
So our new website, we kind of have a new, a whole new palette.
And then we've taken those colors and updated our logo too.
And just kind of to match where the company is now.
But at the core of it, it's like creating a logo that people remember and see and, and
then always get the top of the list.
I'm actually very jealous of your logo.
It flows so perfectly.
Yeah.
People, it's funny when they see it, they're like, whoa, I just, cause we had, like this
one's all the same color.
I'm also more of the two colors.
Yeah.
So then it sticks out.
There's like, there's an F and a T and an A like AT.
It's so clean.
Did you come up with that?
No, it was actually a Renee, Renee Clark, who was one of my employee's spouses.
At the time came up with it when we first started, but I knew from the beginning where
it kept coming out.
Okay.
And it flows into like, you know, a touch about the competition, which is kind of our
tagline.
So it's just, we've, we've had some fun with it.
Well kind of go on branding real quick.
So a lot of business owners, like we talked about state 48, you've seen my truck.
A lot of people wrap their vehicles, right?
It's a big, you don't have a wrap.
Just a clean logo.
Why?
Cause it's elegance.
Like it's just clean.
Like we're not, it's a finer touch.
Like, you know, touch by the competition, like it's clean.
People see the logo.
We want them to see it and be like, I know that that's a luxury brand.
It's a luxury look.
Like, and there's nothing wrong with the full wrap.
It's just, it doesn't fit.
You guys, yeah.
It just doesn't fit us.
It doesn't fit our marketing strategy.
Doesn't fit the clean sleek style that we're going.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
And so there's nothing to guess.
It's just that this is just, you need to make sure that you're branding a lines on everything
from like our email signatures.
If you want emails, like our email signatures have our photos and they have all the links
to website and the podcast and our social media and our business cards are all electric.
You know, the website and it's all matches our documents that we send out all of our,
you know, our, our document control, you know, from contracts and everything.
It's all lined with the branding and colors and to the website.
So for us, it's just, you know, that clean, that clean look all the way around.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
Well, is that your only question, Kyle?
Yes.
Obviously, guys, you can see we're taking advantage of having Brad here.
It's just been, it's been awesome to learn from you.
So we want to thank you for coming on guys.
Brad has a podcast, Brad Levitt podcast.
He just ran it.
Yeah.
So it was AFT construction podcast, right?
Yeah, it was.
And then people are like, we want to know more than instruction from you, which means you
have a lot to share.
And it's an amazing podcast.
I highly recommend everybody to go check it out.
The links are going to be below to his Instagram is LinkedIn to his podcast as well.
You can also find it on the bottom header of your website.
Yeah, it's all there.
Everything's on there.
So definitely check it out.
You can check out our stuff as well.
Our links are going to be posted below.
And more than anything, we appreciate you guys joining and listening to our podcast.
Again, we're all here.
It's a big family.
So if you guys have any questions, any comments, drop them below and we can answer those questions
on our Q&As as well.
And thanks for joining the homework assignment.