WEBVTT 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:06.379 Welcome to Trinity Talks podcast. This is the 00:00:06.379 --> 00:00:09.339 podcast in between two services. I am your host, 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:12.900 Bill Crawford. We're starting a new podcast series 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:16.719 following the sermon series themed 180, the story 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:21.640 of Paul changed direction, changed life. Together, 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:25.420 we'll explore how we encounter with Jesus completely 00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:28.679 changed Paul's direction and what his story might 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:33.469 teach us about how God transforms us today. So 00:00:33.469 --> 00:00:37.530 over the course of the sermon series, we'll be 00:00:37.530 --> 00:00:41.770 interviewing members of Trinity and talking with 00:00:41.770 --> 00:00:47.310 them and investigating their 180 U -turn experience. 00:00:48.009 --> 00:00:50.829 Today, our guest is Ted Smith. Hello, Ted. Thanks 00:00:50.829 --> 00:00:54.979 for being here. So just to get to know Ted, a 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:58.079 little bit to start. Ted, how long have you been 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:01.479 attending Trinity? We've been about 13 years. 00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:04.980 OK, that's great. And you say we? Oh, Carol and 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:07.000 I. Carol, your wife, Carol. OK, great. Thank 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:10.459 you. And do you live in the area? Well, we live 00:01:10.459 --> 00:01:13.459 quite a long way away. We live over at Dixie 00:01:13.459 --> 00:01:16.849 and Bloor. We used to live in Etobicoke. when 00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:20.870 we first started coming here, but it's 20 minutes 00:01:20.870 --> 00:01:23.469 if there's good traffic, half an hour if it's 00:01:23.469 --> 00:01:27.870 tight. But it was great. And and you're retired 00:01:27.870 --> 00:01:31.790 now or mostly retired and you're going to get 00:01:31.790 --> 00:01:34.329 get into this as you share your story. But what 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:38.030 did you do for work? Well, I am a survivor of 00:01:38.030 --> 00:01:41.209 Bay Street. I was 42 years as a Bay Street lawyer. 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:44.620 Great. Well, thanks, Ted, for giving us a little 00:01:44.620 --> 00:01:47.980 bit of intro to who you are. Let's get right 00:01:47.980 --> 00:01:53.140 into the topic of the 180 U -turn experience. 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:57.379 I'm going to ask you three questions. First is, 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.760 what was your life like before your conversion 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.739 experience? The second question is, what was 00:02:03.739 --> 00:02:07.019 your 180 U -turn experience? So what exactly 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:10.879 that moment or that length of time that you had 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:13.580 that? And then what is your life like now as 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:15.340 a follower of Jesus? So let's get started with 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:18.360 the first question. And that's what was your 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.520 life like before your conversion experience? 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.020 Well, I was a I guess you could say I was a typical 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:30.080 nominal Anglican. OK. My parents brought me to 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.379 church when I was a little gaffer. I went through 00:02:32.379 --> 00:02:38.840 Sunday school. I was confirmed when I was 15. 00:02:41.660 --> 00:02:46.199 I played hockey for the church that we attended. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:48.500 I attended the church largely to be able to play 00:02:48.500 --> 00:02:52.479 the hockey. OK, that's great. And, you know, 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.500 we had the Anglican liturgy every week. We had 00:02:55.500 --> 00:03:00.159 a boring sermon. It didn't mean much to me. I 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.000 did have a great experience with the minister 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:10.180 who led the confirmation class. But then a year 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:13.479 or so after I was confirmed, he was unfrocked 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.199 and went to jail for molesting little boys. So 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.939 I kind of horrible. It kind of put me off getting 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:25.599 serious about what the church was about. I had 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.460 enough Anglican connections to live at Wycliffe 00:03:28.460 --> 00:03:31.009 College. when I was at U of T, which was the 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:33.729 cheapest place in Toronto to live. I just was 00:03:33.729 --> 00:03:36.930 there as a resident. I wasn't involved in the 00:03:36.930 --> 00:03:41.430 theology at all. Right. And I was fortunate enough 00:03:41.430 --> 00:03:45.409 to meet my wife, Carol. She financed me through 00:03:45.409 --> 00:03:48.610 my last year of law school after we got married. 00:03:49.550 --> 00:03:53.569 And, you know, we had a. After four or five years, 00:03:53.689 --> 00:03:57.879 we had our first child was born. We both thought, 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.080 well, you know, we should have him baptized. 00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:04.259 So we went to the local Anglican church. And 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:07.099 lo and behold, within about two months, I end 00:04:07.099 --> 00:04:10.419 up as the rector's warden at the church. Well, 00:04:10.419 --> 00:04:14.060 I regarded that incredible. They needed it. Yes. 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:18.040 The minister was was Phil Poole's father. So 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.079 I knew Phil Poole, former Bishop Phil Poole when 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:26.160 he was a teenager. Anyway. That experience was 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.040 sort of bittersweet for me. The church was failing 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:35.579 financially, and I didn't find it a rewarding 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:38.540 experience, but I looked on attending church 00:04:38.540 --> 00:04:40.819 as sort of being like a member of the Kiwanis 00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:43.480 Club, doing something good. Throughout my life, 00:04:43.660 --> 00:04:48.259 my dad always envied me with the ethic of giving 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:52.629 back. You know, being a church warden was giving 00:04:52.629 --> 00:04:56.509 back. It was a good thing to do. But I really 00:04:56.509 --> 00:04:59.410 was not into any kind of relationship with Jesus. 00:04:59.410 --> 00:05:01.850 Right. So it sounds like for you, church was 00:05:01.850 --> 00:05:04.449 more like a service club as opposed to a faith 00:05:04.449 --> 00:05:08.949 organization. And so growing up and then into 00:05:08.949 --> 00:05:12.129 some of your adult life, you're nominally involved 00:05:12.129 --> 00:05:15.949 with the church, but it seems like you had ulterior 00:05:15.949 --> 00:05:18.470 motives for wanting to keep up that connection, 00:05:18.569 --> 00:05:21.709 like playing hockey or or getting your child 00:05:21.709 --> 00:05:24.509 baptized and stuff. And that didn't really have 00:05:24.509 --> 00:05:27.149 that personal connection. So what during that 00:05:27.149 --> 00:05:31.610 time, what was important to you? Well, it was. 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.240 I have to admit my good wife is a faithful Christian 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:40.180 and she didn't push me. She steered me a little 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:44.300 bit. She was, of course, praying that I would 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:49.279 find faith, but she was very gentle with me. 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:53.040 And we moved to the suburbs and attended another 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.360 church where everybody was very happy to be there. 00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.720 It was like a social club. The minister's sermons 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:05.980 were. seven minutes. He had a season's tickets 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:08.759 to the Blue Jays. And so frequently on Sundays 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.420 we had to get through the service quickly so 00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:13.899 he could get down and watch the game. And I just 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:17.540 kind of felt that all of this was a good thing 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:20.920 to do. I was meeting with people from the community. 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.699 The social interactions were important. But again, 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.319 it was nothing about is this really Right. True. 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:32.779 Is this really do I really have a relationship? 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:36.540 So your story, as I'm hearing it, is not is, 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:40.439 you know, follows adjacent to the faith or to 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.259 church experience and things like that. But I 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:48.800 know from your story that early on, your focus 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.060 was very much on your career. You're very business 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:56.899 minded. Yeah. Yeah. So I I was quickly became 00:06:56.899 --> 00:07:00.990 a partner in a midsize Bay Street law firm. doing 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:06.509 commercial work. It was a time of in the late 00:07:06.509 --> 00:07:11.149 70s, early 80s, heavy inflation, lots of things 00:07:11.149 --> 00:07:15.050 going on, and I was very busy. So my career took 00:07:15.050 --> 00:07:18.269 up a large part of my life, probably 60 to 80 00:07:18.269 --> 00:07:23.730 hours a week working on stuff. And so that was 00:07:23.730 --> 00:07:29.699 a major focus. Right. And so. that took time 00:07:29.699 --> 00:07:32.540 away from family, took time away from community, 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.660 took time away from church. Yeah. Yeah. So church 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:38.899 was we still went to church, but, you know, it 00:07:38.899 --> 00:07:40.800 was like an hour, an hour and a half on Sunday 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.500 morning. That was it. Right. Didn't have to commit 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:46.259 anymore. Yeah, so I like some people's story 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:50.319 of being actively antagonistic against the faith. 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.240 That's not your story. Your story is more adjacent 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.379 to the faith, but definitely having a focus on 00:07:57.379 --> 00:07:59.639 your career and on business and on lawyering. 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.079 that preoccupied you from experiencing faith 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:09.360 in a deeper way. And I did know some people who 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.199 were sincere about their faith, but most of them 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:16.399 had problems in their lives. And so I saw the 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:21.399 faith as being a worthwhile thing for them. You 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:25.790 could say a crutch. It's a bit crass, but. But 00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:27.589 that was your attitude at the time. It was my 00:08:27.589 --> 00:08:29.689 attitude at the time that, you know, I didn't 00:08:29.689 --> 00:08:33.690 need this. I was able to keep control of everything 00:08:33.690 --> 00:08:37.870 in my life. And so those folks who were who were 00:08:37.870 --> 00:08:39.899 sincere about their faith. Well. That was OK, 00:08:39.980 --> 00:08:42.100 but it wasn't for me. Yeah. And there's a lot 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:45.399 of very, very independent, self -motivated people 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.279 that have that sense for themselves and their 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:50.379 lives that they they can they can do it. They 00:08:50.379 --> 00:08:52.899 can make it work. They just work hard enough 00:08:52.899 --> 00:08:56.799 and and things will happen for them. And the 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:59.299 faith element doesn't factor in. Is it? Yeah. 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.659 All right. Let's move on to your 180 U -turn 00:09:02.659 --> 00:09:05.460 experience. Tell us a bit about that experience 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.279 for you. OK, so I hope I can tell the story straight. 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:14.610 It's amusing and it's very poignant for me. And 00:09:14.610 --> 00:09:18.549 it really is a 180. So we're attending this church 00:09:18.549 --> 00:09:25.990 in Etobicoke and it was the summer of 1981. I 00:09:25.990 --> 00:09:30.690 had not arranged a holiday for my family. Carol 00:09:30.690 --> 00:09:33.149 was six months pregnant with her second child. 00:09:33.470 --> 00:09:37.059 My eldest son, Jeff, was six. And, you know, 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:38.879 we talked about doing something, but I never 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.259 got around to booking anything. So I come home 00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:43.259 from work one day and Cheryl brightly informs 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:46.720 me that she's been speaking to Betty Blake at 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.299 the church, and she's arranged for us to go for 00:09:50.299 --> 00:09:53.259 a week to an Anglican Christian camp called Camp 00:09:53.259 --> 00:09:59.340 Quinonia up near Perry Sound. I said, what? You 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:02.840 can't. This is crazy. I'm absolutely not going 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:04.639 to be involved in that. How could you possibly 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:06.539 do this? And I said, well, we're not going to 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:08.700 go. She said, oh, well, I've already paid for 00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:11.519 it. I said, how could you do this? These people, 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:13.799 these holy rollers, we don't want to get anywhere 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:15.840 near them. They'll mess with your mind. Right. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.620 Come on. This is this is our family. We don't 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:23.870 need this stuff. And I was quite angry. So time 00:10:23.870 --> 00:10:26.629 goes by and it's time to go to Camp Quinonia. 00:10:26.809 --> 00:10:28.669 So we're going to drive up on a Saturday morning. 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:33.090 And you did go. And I well, I drove her up because 00:10:33.090 --> 00:10:37.309 I always had to drive the car. And so the station 00:10:37.309 --> 00:10:39.789 wagons loaded up and we drive up. And I said, 00:10:39.889 --> 00:10:42.769 OK, Carol, here's the deal. I'll leave you and 00:10:42.769 --> 00:10:46.490 Jeff off at the camp. And I'm going golfing for 00:10:46.490 --> 00:10:48.909 a week, OK? And I'll pick you up at the end of 00:10:48.909 --> 00:10:51.049 the week. I'm not going to have any part of this. 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.899 So three hour drive up to Perry Sound. She's 00:10:55.899 --> 00:10:59.840 quite quietly crying. I'm fuming. We're not talking 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:03.000 to each other. It was a bad scene. That was a 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:06.259 tough car ride up. It was. We arrive at the camp 00:11:06.259 --> 00:11:10.220 and Camp Quinonia is rustic. It's on. It's it 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:13.860 was founded by a group of people from a particular 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:18.860 Bible group that gathered back in the early 50s. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.659 It's on the side of a hill going down to the 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.320 Haynes Lake. And the people had constructed a 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.200 bunch of fairly primitive cabins to stay in. 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.120 And there was a big lodge down at the down by 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.019 the lake. We I arrived at this and I said, Carol, 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.779 look at this dump. You're six months pregnant. 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.000 You can't climb up and down these hills. This 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.720 is crazy. We're going home. Right. No. She was 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:45.559 bent and determined that we're going to stay. 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:49.960 So I get okay. We drive down to the lodge at 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.960 the front. Nobody is around I'm gonna unload 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.320 the car get out of there as quickly as I can 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.759 And so as I'm unloading the car out of the front 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.919 door of the lodge comes bounding Rob Wormald 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.399 We know we know Rob here who attends here at 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:09.500 Trinity, right? So as you if you know Rob, you 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:13.559 know how enthusiastic he is and now I had known 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.759 Rob all the way through school We were in, we 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:21.200 went to the same church. We'd been in the same 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.820 public school, the same high school, but I hadn't 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.779 seen him for years. We lost touch after we left 00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:30.120 high school. And here he is. He's saying, Ted, 00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:32.259 I didn't realize that you were coming. This is 00:12:32.259 --> 00:12:35.379 fantastic. We got a great week here. John Spears 00:12:35.379 --> 00:12:37.679 is speaking and the music's going to be wonderful. 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.720 And Pat and Liz White are going to lead the program. 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.799 And you're in for a real treat. This is wonderful. 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.919 So, as you know, you're not planning on staying. 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:50.620 Yeah. Suddenly, this is profoundly embarrassing. 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:55.080 So I said to Carol, OK, look. All right, well, 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.820 I'll hang around until lunch. OK, I'll slip away 00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:02.080 after lunch. I'm still going. And so that didn't 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:08.259 happen. I. I stayed, I met these wonderful Christian 00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:14.299 people, people who were not crazy. Bible thumping 00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:17.440 idiots, like I expected. They were ordinary, 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.440 sincere people. Their faith was real. They didn't 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.539 beat you up with it. They would answer questions 00:13:23.539 --> 00:13:28.960 when you asked. And I really found that they 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.340 had something that I didn't have. They had a 00:13:31.340 --> 00:13:36.139 peace and, you know, they didn't have necessarily 00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:38.960 wonderful lives. A lot of them made a lot less 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.840 money than I did. And that wasn't important. 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:48.279 And so through that period of time, I stayed 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.419 that week. Carol, I had packed my clothes, she 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:55.840 believing that maybe I would stay. She didn't 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.080 know Rob Wormwell was going to be there. Right. 00:13:59.299 --> 00:14:02.600 And the net result of that week was I became 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.840 convinced that I should make a commitment to 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.149 follow Jesus. That's incredible. John Spears 00:14:09.149 --> 00:14:14.070 was the leader. He helped me with a lot of issues 00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:17.149 I had just very quietly leading me in the right 00:14:17.149 --> 00:14:22.610 way. I was stretched. I mean, we had every every 00:14:22.610 --> 00:14:25.429 morning the men, the women and then the men had 00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:28.769 to gather in the prayer cabin and pray. And here 00:14:28.769 --> 00:14:32.139 I am. being asked to pray out loud for the guy 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:34.679 next to me. I mean, this is like, what is this? 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.200 That's right. Outside of your comfort zone. I 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:42.700 did. And it was it was an amazing experience. 00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:46.279 I came to realize that, in fact, you know, the 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.639 Lord really did want me to make a commitment. 00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:53.230 So, after that, as often happens when you make 00:14:53.230 --> 00:14:57.769 a commitment, I went on to attend the Anglican 00:14:57.769 --> 00:15:00.850 Curseo in the following fall. The Curseo movement 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:02.669 was a big movement in the Anglican Church at 00:15:02.669 --> 00:15:08.870 the time to bring people to Christ. That really 00:15:08.870 --> 00:15:11.110 secured and locked in my commitment to follow 00:15:11.110 --> 00:15:16.750 Jesus. And like anyone who suddenly becomes a 00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:18.789 believer, I was enthusiastically getting into 00:15:18.789 --> 00:15:21.009 all kinds of things. So pretty soon I'm leading 00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:24.929 men's retreats at Camp Quinonia. Every summer, 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.210 our family attended there. We spent a week there. 00:15:28.649 --> 00:15:32.909 My kids grew up at the camp. They all were involved 00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:36.210 in camp activities. I went on to become very 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:38.809 soon afterwards. I was a board member of a Christian 00:15:38.809 --> 00:15:44.870 mission. You know, later on I led Alpha. I led 00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:47.409 Bible studies. I was a Sunday school teacher. 00:15:47.429 --> 00:15:49.090 Yeah, let's get it. Let's get into a little bit 00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:52.769 of that stuff early years of after that initial 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:56.129 experience. But it sounds like like Paul, you 00:15:56.129 --> 00:16:01.529 you had a dramatic experience like Paul on the 00:16:01.529 --> 00:16:03.970 way to Damascus. Your your dramatic experience 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:08.129 was on the on the hillside trails of Camp Canonia 00:16:08.129 --> 00:16:11.289 go alongside these rusted cabins by the lake. 00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:15.210 But and also like Paul, it sounds like, that 00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:19.649 you had a number of months and years following 00:16:19.649 --> 00:16:24.509 that initial experience of seeing or understanding 00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:28.190 the love of fellow Christians and having that 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:32.169 turn you to. What was those early months or those 00:16:32.169 --> 00:16:36.230 early years that changed you and your faith? 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:41.740 Well, I became convinced that First of all, I 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:45.299 had to learn and study and understand really 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:49.559 what the faith was. And over my entire years 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:54.899 as a Christian, I've grown. And there are many 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:59.639 things that I don't necessarily understand. But, 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.379 you know, I can continue to grow what my faith 00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:05.420 is. It's been challenged many times. But I want 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:08.640 to tell you this key part of the story that really 00:17:08.890 --> 00:17:14.450 gets me. Rob Wormald was our accountant. We reestablished 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:17.130 a friendship. Rob was our accountant. He did 00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:20.990 our tax returns. I had some crazy investments 00:17:20.990 --> 00:17:23.130 that were really stupid that I needed his advice 00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:27.410 on. So at one occasion, years later, we're meeting 00:17:27.410 --> 00:17:30.910 in his office and I said, Rob, you know, you 00:17:30.910 --> 00:17:33.690 probably don't realize this, but, you know, I 00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:37.789 came to faith through a coincidence and it was 00:17:37.789 --> 00:17:41.940 because You were there and welcomed me to the 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:44.099 camp. If you had not been there, that would not 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.200 have happened. Right. You had turned around and 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.339 gone. I'd gone golfing for a week. Absolutely. 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.000 And he said to me, Ted, I had gone to Camp Quinone 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.539 since I was a little kid, and it wasn't a novelty. 00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:58.720 And I usually arrived, came over from the cottage 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.079 about four in the afternoon. But all that week, 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.880 I had a dream that I had to be there early on 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:10.180 Saturday to beat suddenly. That was you. Mm -hmm. 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:17.140 So that convinces me to this day, God hit me 00:18:17.140 --> 00:18:20.799 with a two by four. He wanted me to turn around 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:24.200 and follow him. Well, that is that is a great 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:28.180 story because it also kind of relates or mirrors 00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:30.759 a little bit of Paul's story because Paul had 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:34.000 someone waiting for him in Damascus that that 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:39.000 God had prepped. to meet with him and to prepare 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.079 him and help him understand what his experience 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:43.779 was. And it sounds like that was, Rob was a bit 00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:48.799 like that for you as well. That's incredible. 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.240 Definitely a change in your focus from career 00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:00.460 minded or business focused to experiencing the 00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:03.019 faith in a new way, a fresh way, a meaningful 00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:05.940 way for you. And it just changed your outlook, 00:19:06.339 --> 00:19:09.960 changed your trajectory for your life. It really 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.579 turned around. That's that's definitely an incredible 00:19:13.579 --> 00:19:18.319 story. Let's let's move to more today. So what 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.359 what is what is your life like now as a follower 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:28.920 of Jesus? So go back to after becoming a committed 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:34.259 follower of Jesus, I, Carol and I came to the 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.819 conclusion that we had to manage our financial 00:19:36.819 --> 00:19:40.230 resources in a responsible way. And so we we 00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:42.549 adopted the discipline of tithing, which we've 00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:48.390 always followed since. With respect to my work, 00:19:49.190 --> 00:19:52.329 I came in touch with a good friend who was an 00:19:52.329 --> 00:19:55.869 evangelist to business people. And so I have 00:19:55.869 --> 00:19:58.309 a connection with a bunch of guys who worked 00:19:58.309 --> 00:20:03.309 on the street in various business arrangements. 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.700 And we all met. We would meet every two weeks 00:20:07.700 --> 00:20:10.859 for breakfast early downtown and talk about how 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:12.779 we could bring our faith to the marketplace. 00:20:13.299 --> 00:20:16.519 That became something that really focused us. 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:22.019 In addition, I served on the board of a number 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:24.660 of Christian missions. I served on the board 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:30.759 of Quinonia, and I was able to use my. legal 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.940 skills to assist a number of organizations in 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:39.160 those sorts of things that they need to address. 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:42.740 Carol and I went on mission trips, you know, 00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:46.839 we built the school down in a little place in 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:50.700 the Dominican Republic. We did a lot of these 00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:53.039 different things, but what was more important 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:59.019 and as well, we have We have not stayed in the 00:20:59.019 --> 00:21:01.500 same church. And this is something that I've 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:04.460 often reflected on. We've been since this happened 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:06.299 to me, we've been at four different churches. 00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:11.640 OK. And what happens in in a church community, 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:16.200 we're all failed human beings. There are people 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.539 have their own personalities. There are rivalries 00:21:20.539 --> 00:21:25.049 that come out. we get into disagreements about 00:21:25.049 --> 00:21:28.410 various things and so on. And that happens to 00:21:28.410 --> 00:21:31.029 all of us. And, you know, we're refugees here 00:21:31.029 --> 00:21:35.650 at Trinity, as are a lot of the people. I've 00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:39.410 been heavily involved in our life group really 00:21:39.410 --> 00:21:44.390 since Alpha back right after we came here. I 00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:47.630 led Alpha at my previous church. I ended up as 00:21:47.630 --> 00:21:49.990 a Presbyterian elder for a number of years in 00:21:49.990 --> 00:21:55.329 a Presbyterian church. OK. But in each case, 00:21:55.329 --> 00:22:00.650 you know, my faith is growing. And so I find 00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:05.230 the time we spend in our life group, which we 00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:08.910 we we meet on a regular basis. I've been in that 00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:12.410 life group now. since, you know, almost the 13 00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:16.329 years I've been here. And every time we meet, 00:22:16.730 --> 00:22:21.369 the Holy Spirit speaks to us. We all we all strengthen 00:22:21.369 --> 00:22:24.910 each other's faith. I always come away from those 00:22:24.910 --> 00:22:29.410 experiences feeling much more strengthened in 00:22:29.410 --> 00:22:32.809 issues that I'm addressing in my life. And what 00:22:32.809 --> 00:22:37.529 I find is I've been retired for 10 years now. 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.480 that and when I turned 80 this last spring, I 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.500 started to reflect a lot on this. What I find 00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:51.640 is that people find to be their issues and problems 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:57.579 that people have. And I think each of us as as 00:22:57.579 --> 00:23:01.640 Christians. have kingdom work that we do on a 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.079 day to day basis. And it doesn't have to be a 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.819 dramatic thing. It can be simply like in Rob's 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:09.380 case, showing up. You don't know what effect 00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:11.799 you may have on other people. Sometimes it's 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:15.420 that easy. Yeah. Encouraging somebody, answering 00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:19.460 a problem for somebody. These are all things 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:22.559 that these are things that God gives us to do. 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:28.579 And so. As I as I age now, I'm not not as active 00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:32.339 in a lot of the stuff I used to do. But I find 00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:35.099 that I have a chance to do that every week. That's 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:38.160 important to me. Yeah. And I found coming to 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.599 this church and this fellowship, what I like 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:46.859 about it is it has the right balance of worship 00:23:46.859 --> 00:23:53.970 and outreach and concern for others. that is 00:23:53.970 --> 00:23:57.250 really important. And that's something I just 00:23:57.250 --> 00:24:01.549 want to have part of. So as I reflect on, you 00:24:01.549 --> 00:24:05.750 know, I turned 80 in April. I'm a week older 00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:12.089 than Rob. And I just want to finish well. I don't 00:24:12.089 --> 00:24:14.930 know how long I have, but I want to continue 00:24:14.930 --> 00:24:17.609 to serve in whatever way I can. Well, certainly 00:24:17.609 --> 00:24:22.640 that's a good priority and good focus. I'm so 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.759 glad that you and Carol found a church home where 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.900 you feel comfortable and you feel like you have 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:35.700 a place to serve. But what is exciting and encouraging 00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:40.539 to me about your story is the impact that you 00:24:40.539 --> 00:24:45.490 have had. over the decades, and a lot of decades, 00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:48.210 you said you just turned 80, so it's been a few 00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:54.009 decades, but the changed lives that have been 00:24:54.009 --> 00:24:57.740 the result of your changed life. is just incredible. 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.059 I started off with Rob in faithful obedience 00:25:02.059 --> 00:25:06.220 to hearing God's call to step out and reach out 00:25:06.220 --> 00:25:09.299 to you and encourage you to stay at camp for 00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:13.319 that one week. And that was a turnaround for 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.680 you in your life. And it helped you to experience 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:21.059 faith in a new, powerful, amazing, meaningful 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:26.289 way for you. And that in turn has affected hundreds, 00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:29.930 if not thousands of people in all the different 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:33.049 ministries and the different programs that you've 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:34.950 been involved in over the years. Bill, I think 00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:38.430 you're exaggerating a bit, but thank you. I mean, 00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:43.049 in faith, I think that is that the case. And 00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:45.029 you said it yourself, is that sometimes you just 00:25:45.029 --> 00:25:48.170 don't know the impact that you have on people. 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:52.609 But if you are seeking to be a faithful servant, 00:25:52.650 --> 00:25:54.769 if you're responding to God's call, and I think 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.160 you have and the many things that you have done 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.740 over the years, that makes a difference in the 00:26:00.740 --> 00:26:04.019 lives of people. And I think that's been true 00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:07.460 for you. So thank you, Ted, for sharing your 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:13.460 story. And it's been great to hear your 180 U 00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:16.700 -turn experience and how that affected your life 00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:20.960 and benefited so many others. And thank you for 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.980 joining us on the Trinity Talks podcast this 00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:26.700 week. And like I said at the beginning, we're 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:28.880 going to be following the sermon series over 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:31.940 the next few weeks and taking the time during 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.319 Trinity Talks podcast to hear from other members 00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:40.359 of the Trinity congregation on their 180 U -turn 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:43.359 experience. Until then, take care and God bless.