WEBVTT 00:00:03.320 --> 00:00:05.540 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:05.540 --> 00:00:08.779 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am joined 00:00:08.779 --> 00:00:12.099 here by Pastor Rob. Hi Kyla. Hello and we're 00:00:12.099 --> 00:00:14.660 gonna sit down and chat about some of the upcoming 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:17.300 changes that are happening here at Trinity as 00:00:17.300 --> 00:00:19.579 we continue to sort of step into our strategic 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.719 plan and in particular chatting about what's 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:24.859 happening with the online engagement ministry 00:00:24.859 --> 00:00:27.320 here. What's happening with you? What's happening 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:28.820 with me? Hey, what's happening with you? What's 00:00:28.820 --> 00:00:32.259 happening with all of us? Yeah, and talk about, 00:00:32.259 --> 00:00:33.679 you know, what has been some of the things that 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.539 we've been learning, what's, you know, coming 00:00:35.539 --> 00:00:38.640 next for us, and yeah, where all of this is going. 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:40.840 So thanks for joining me, Rob. I'm very happy 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:42.939 to be here. And as people probably heard at the 00:00:42.939 --> 00:00:45.619 beginning of the service, there is a lot of changes 00:00:45.619 --> 00:00:48.200 happening, but this is the best way to talk about 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.030 them. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so maybe just to 00:00:51.030 --> 00:00:53.530 get us started, you can take us all the way back. 00:00:54.229 --> 00:00:57.070 When you or when the church first started thinking 00:00:57.070 --> 00:01:00.189 about online engagement at Trinity, what was 00:01:00.189 --> 00:01:02.469 the sort of vision and reasoning behind that? 00:01:02.689 --> 00:01:04.870 Well, like many churches, I think it was the 00:01:04.870 --> 00:01:07.129 pandemic that forced us to kind of start thinking 00:01:07.129 --> 00:01:10.349 about things. I arrived right in the middle of 00:01:10.349 --> 00:01:12.510 the pandemic, like five and a half years ago, 00:01:12.730 --> 00:01:16.590 and at that point, online ministry was just, 00:01:16.590 --> 00:01:20.109 that's how you... just survived. If you were 00:01:20.109 --> 00:01:22.909 going to stay in touch with your existing church 00:01:22.909 --> 00:01:25.390 family or if I was even going to get to know 00:01:25.390 --> 00:01:26.969 this new church or if they were going to get 00:01:26.969 --> 00:01:28.750 to know me, we had to have some kind of online 00:01:28.750 --> 00:01:30.989 presence meeting in person was just not possible. 00:01:31.650 --> 00:01:34.489 So we just started there. That's how it kind 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:37.420 of began. But then As you guys will remember, 00:01:37.659 --> 00:01:40.280 some people started to trickle back that we were 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:42.459 allowed to start meeting again. And that's when 00:01:42.459 --> 00:01:46.420 all of a sudden the thing was hybrid, hybrid 00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:48.739 online ministry, which meant that you were now 00:01:48.739 --> 00:01:51.319 doing an in -person service, but still many, 00:01:51.379 --> 00:01:53.700 many people had not come back yet. So you had 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:57.250 to keep... still doing an online service as well. 00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:01.090 So you were reaching one congregation here and 00:02:01.090 --> 00:02:03.590 you were reaching another congregation there. 00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:07.810 And then I think as restrictions continued to 00:02:07.810 --> 00:02:09.270 ease, more and more people started coming back 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:11.550 to church, but it still felt like there was a 00:02:11.550 --> 00:02:13.310 good number of folks who said, you know what? 00:02:13.449 --> 00:02:16.990 I kind of like this online thing. I like doing... 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:20.099 church in my pajamas on my couch. So I'm going 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:22.960 to kind of stay here." And so we kind of just 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.300 kept on offering an online version of our Sunday 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:30.259 morning service and stuff like that because certain 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:35.020 people just seem to prefer it. But as we kept 00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:36.699 up with that, we were just kind of grew aware 00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:39.039 there's a bit of a gap that's forming, right? 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:40.479 Because the people who were coming in person 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.139 were getting They were starting to reconnect 00:02:43.139 --> 00:02:45.460 in community and rebuild friends and be able 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:48.759 to enjoy their life groups again and all that 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:51.159 good stuff. But on the other side of the gap, 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.759 there were these people online who were enjoying 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:59.219 the service, but were they engaging with us? 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.240 That was something that we just started asking 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.439 more and more questions. What would it take to 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:08.919 make that group of people who are joining us 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.719 online feel more engage, not entertained, but 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:17.000 actually engage. Could we form real community 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:21.460 with people online? And even if you just think 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:25.240 of the word engage, what does it mean to engage 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:27.199 someone? It means that you're like, if we're 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.439 having an engaging conversation, then we're like... 00:03:29.979 --> 00:03:31.879 we're really like paying attention. We're keeping 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:34.900 like, you know, like, or even like, there's like, 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.680 like back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.680 or engagement actually sometimes when you're 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:44.060 talking about tools and mechanical things like 00:03:44.060 --> 00:03:47.120 engagements, when like two pieces of a two pieces 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.180 of a piece of machinery come together and they 00:03:49.180 --> 00:03:51.419 start like turning together. And so what we really 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:53.379 wanted to do is our online congregation and our 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:55.419 in -person congregation to kind of really be 00:03:55.419 --> 00:03:58.340 to pieces of the life of this church that we're 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:02.099 turning and growing together. So we said, okay, 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:04.539 if we want to really invest in that, we're going 00:04:04.539 --> 00:04:07.520 to have to do some experimenting and what would 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:09.599 it look like? And so we actually reached out 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.639 to the Diocese of Toronto and we said, hey, we're 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:14.419 curious about these kinds of questions. We want 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:16.899 to experiment in this world of online engagement. 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:18.699 What do you think? And they said, we're curious 00:04:18.699 --> 00:04:20.920 about those kinds of things too. And so they 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.959 ended up funding us. for a five -year period 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:28.040 of time to invest in some equipment, but mostly 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.560 to invest in people to really explore both the 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.639 possibilities and the limits of online engagement. 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:39.480 And one of the greatest things that we invested 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:43.160 in was people like you, Kyla. You're a big part 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.519 of that. Yeah. So you hired an online engagement 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.220 director to sort of oversee some of this work, 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.860 to do all of that experimenting. So how have 00:04:51.860 --> 00:04:54.139 you seen that role sort of shift over the last, 00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:56.740 I think, three or four years now? Yeah. I think 00:04:56.740 --> 00:04:59.500 you're right to say that it shifted. And that's 00:04:59.500 --> 00:05:01.439 actually very, very intentional because this 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:03.339 was an experiment, after all. So we had to be 00:05:03.339 --> 00:05:05.220 paying attention. Is this working? No. Let's 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:07.639 shift. Is that working? Yes. Let's shift toward 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.379 it. Let's shift away from this. Let's shift toward 00:05:09.379 --> 00:05:12.430 it. It was always about the shift. It was always 00:05:12.430 --> 00:05:14.310 about the adjustment. It was always about the 00:05:14.310 --> 00:05:16.829 experiment. So that was one of the... So yeah, 00:05:16.970 --> 00:05:19.269 we expected to see things change, not just to 00:05:19.269 --> 00:05:21.490 get it right and now we're going to do this forever. 00:05:23.859 --> 00:05:26.240 Another shift that actually happened was, our 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.600 first online engagement director was Elizabeth 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.600 Archer, who many of you will remember. Hi, Elizabeth, 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:35.120 if you're watching. Elizabeth and her family 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.860 moved to London, and then about two years ago, 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.860 you took her role. That was a shift. You brought 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.939 different ideas and different vision and just 00:05:43.939 --> 00:05:46.040 a different presence to it all. You've both been 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:52.160 wonderful in your own ways. shift that you and 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:56.420 I talked about a lot was almost a shift from 00:05:56.420 --> 00:06:01.680 having you think of your job as the online engagement 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.759 director, as someone who's just offering online 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:10.480 programs, to seeing your job as a pastor of an 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.220 online congregation. So, in the same way that 00:06:13.220 --> 00:06:16.560 I'm pastoring the in -person congregation, what 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.899 would it be like for you to envision this job? 00:06:19.149 --> 00:06:20.970 not just about, let's offer this, let's offer 00:06:20.970 --> 00:06:25.410 this, but this is your flock, your online flock. 00:06:25.509 --> 00:06:28.550 How can you care for them in a way that's analogous 00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:30.769 to how we care for those who are in person? And 00:06:30.769 --> 00:06:34.110 part of that thinking was because we realized, 00:06:34.110 --> 00:06:36.269 it's one of our learnings, that actually the 00:06:36.269 --> 00:06:38.029 people who are watching, the people who are participating, 00:06:38.129 --> 00:06:39.589 the people we're trying to reach are actually 00:06:39.589 --> 00:06:42.529 maybe not the people we originally thought. It 00:06:42.529 --> 00:06:44.310 turned out, and you'll probably say more about 00:06:44.310 --> 00:06:46.250 this, that most of the people who are engaging 00:06:46.250 --> 00:06:47.870 with us on Sunday mornings are people who... 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:50.629 are shut in to their house, maybe they're elderly, 00:06:51.250 --> 00:06:54.870 and it's just, yeah, that's how they stay connected, 00:06:54.930 --> 00:06:57.389 because they physically can't come to church 00:06:57.389 --> 00:07:00.300 anymore. And that was like, oh... That's our 00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:02.360 online congregation, not everybody, but most. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.279 Yeah, yeah, I think it was interesting because, 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.660 you know, when you were describing the like pandemic 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:08.339 situation, you said, you know, there were lots 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:10.319 of people who maybe didn't come back to church. 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.120 And I think we assumed there are some people 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:14.800 who didn't come back because they didn't want 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:16.980 to, right? Because it was more comfortable for 00:07:16.980 --> 00:07:19.600 them to do it from home. But there are all kinds 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.980 of people that weren't able to come back into 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:25.639 church because of health reasons, because they 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.480 had moved, because, you know, family situations... 00:07:28.430 --> 00:07:32.009 whatever it was, right? And so, yeah, just sort 00:07:32.009 --> 00:07:35.069 of seeing them as still a really valid part of 00:07:35.069 --> 00:07:38.110 our Trinity family. And still people who need 00:07:38.110 --> 00:07:40.389 connection and care the same as everybody else. 00:07:40.389 --> 00:07:41.790 And I don't think we expected that, because I 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:43.290 think we thought, oh, the people who are going 00:07:43.290 --> 00:07:46.930 to be interested in online are the young folks 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:50.170 and the techies. They're the ones we're going 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:53.329 to be reaching. But that's not what we have found 00:07:53.329 --> 00:07:56.199 as we have kept watching the metrics. learning 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.160 who's out there. Yeah. Yeah. I think, like, when 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.759 I think about, you know, when I first started 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:03.839 this role and, like, what were some of the things 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.160 we were talking about? Like, I know originally 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:07.600 when you guys had done some visioning on this, 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:09.759 you were like, what if we do, like, a VR church 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:12.139 sort of situation, like virtual reality? Or, 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:14.160 like, even when I started, I was like, OK, what 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.680 are the, like, platforms and, like, you know, 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:19.779 Discord or TikTok or whatever it is? Like, where 00:08:19.779 --> 00:08:22.660 do people want us to be? And the answer that 00:08:22.660 --> 00:08:25.050 we kept getting was Just keep being faithful 00:08:25.050 --> 00:08:28.410 in where you're at. Right. And keep showing up 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:31.879 and making those connections deeper. more than 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.259 trying to make the connections broader, I think. 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.039 Yes, that's true. And that's always one of the 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:38.500 temptations of the online ministry, is there's 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:40.379 always something new and exciting. You can try 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:43.320 this, you can try that. Yeah, I mean, well, you've 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.039 already started talking about this, but like, 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:47.399 so you must have seen shifts. You've been at 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:50.519 this two years. What have you seen kind of change? 00:08:50.899 --> 00:08:54.700 Yeah, and I think, yeah, for me, it was really 00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:57.779 interesting to learn who our online congregation 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:01.590 is and what what their needs are, what they're 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:04.769 looking for. Right. And then to think about, 00:09:04.970 --> 00:09:08.570 OK, how what are the ways that we can bring them 00:09:08.570 --> 00:09:12.490 into the in -person or the hybrid elements of 00:09:12.490 --> 00:09:15.279 our church family? Right. So like doing. hybrid 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.019 courses, doing online life groups with folks 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:20.120 who are sometimes always online and sometimes 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.899 in person. And doing, you know, like we went 00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:25.519 through a time where we were doing a lot of like 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:27.419 scripture readings and things like that with 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:30.159 with online congregants. Right. So just getting 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.899 those folks more part of the life of Trinity 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:35.980 in a really sort of regular way, I think was 00:09:35.980 --> 00:09:40.139 really an intentional shift. Yeah, and then I 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:42.019 think the the other thing that I would sort of 00:09:42.019 --> 00:09:47.700 say was just recognizing, you know, the value 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:51.080 of having a really active social media like that 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:54.159 wasn't something that Trinity Trinity has had 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.659 social media for numbers of years. Right. But 00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:00.320 to to sort of say, OK, how do we take what's 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.639 happening on a Sunday morning and make it, you 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.460 know, like taking clips from sermons, taking 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:08.419 clips from podcasts, you know, making posts about 00:10:08.509 --> 00:10:10.830 Bible readings and prayers and like getting the 00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:14.250 life of the church out there in a way that people 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:17.909 can see really easily and and then seeing the 00:10:17.909 --> 00:10:20.889 fruit of that as people who come to church in 00:10:20.889 --> 00:10:23.090 person will say, you know, they're they're new 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:25.470 here and they'll say, hey, I saw this thing on 00:10:25.470 --> 00:10:27.870 Facebook or hey, I watched this on YouTube and 00:10:27.870 --> 00:10:30.570 like it's giving people a taste of what our church 00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:32.830 is like. before they even get to walk through 00:10:32.830 --> 00:10:34.649 the doors. Yeah. You know what was another shift 00:10:34.649 --> 00:10:36.450 to something that we wrestled with the whole 00:10:36.450 --> 00:10:38.730 way along is how do you even count? How do you 00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:42.009 even know who's out there? Like, so you have 00:10:42.009 --> 00:10:44.509 a service, there's this many views, or you put 00:10:44.509 --> 00:10:46.889 a TikTok up or whatever, and oh, there's like 00:10:46.889 --> 00:10:50.169 2 ,500 or 10 ,000 views. What does that even 00:10:50.169 --> 00:10:55.629 mean? Sure. So that was, I felt like a learning 00:10:55.629 --> 00:10:59.549 that I had to get my head around is like, It's 00:10:59.549 --> 00:11:02.610 it's you don't these numbers they mean something 00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:04.809 but maybe they don't mean all that you you sure 00:11:04.809 --> 00:11:06.950 I mean, that's just I mean you must have had 00:11:06.950 --> 00:11:10.090 some other learnings like you learned along the 00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:14.029 way. Yeah, I think Recognizing to going back 00:11:14.029 --> 00:11:17.049 to who our online congregation is I think it 00:11:17.049 --> 00:11:19.129 was also really interesting for me to learn and 00:11:19.129 --> 00:11:21.570 to think about the fact that our on our online 00:11:21.570 --> 00:11:25.190 congregation isn't a consistent group of people 00:11:25.190 --> 00:11:28.610 there are some people who are always online and 00:11:28.610 --> 00:11:31.649 only ever online. Yes. But actually the largest 00:11:31.649 --> 00:11:35.110 sort of chunk of people who check in on the app 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:37.850 on a Sunday morning are people who come in person 00:11:37.850 --> 00:11:40.629 at least half of the time. OK. Right. So people 00:11:40.629 --> 00:11:43.789 who are here when they can be. And then, you 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:45.730 know, they're at the cottage or they're working 00:11:45.730 --> 00:11:47.909 or they're. So you're not on either or you're 00:11:47.909 --> 00:11:49.690 not either you're part of an online congregation 00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:51.330 or you're part of an in person. But one of your 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:53.570 learnings was that actually they're going back 00:11:53.570 --> 00:11:56.919 and forth. A lot of people are both. Yeah. Yeah, 00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:59.059 and that's really interesting because I think 00:11:59.059 --> 00:12:03.700 that changes the job. Like that changes who I 00:12:03.700 --> 00:12:06.100 care for. So like when I am going through a list 00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:07.980 of being, okay, who checked in this Sunday? Who's 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.740 been checking in regularly? One of the criteria 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:12.960 that I use in my head as I'm going through this 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.059 is like, okay. Does this person have other connections? 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:18.820 Are they part of a life group? Do they show up 00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:21.179 regularly on Sunday morning? Right. Because if 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:23.960 they have some of those other connections, it's 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.139 not that I won't check in with them. Right. But 00:12:26.139 --> 00:12:28.700 I will prioritize the people that I know are 00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:31.659 feeling more isolated. Yes. Right. Yeah. Fair. 00:12:32.259 --> 00:12:38.269 Fair. Yeah. I think that there's. Oh shoot, what 00:12:38.269 --> 00:12:43.570 was I going to say? Okay, so we've learned that 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:46.889 this congregation is not like here or there. 00:12:47.309 --> 00:12:49.029 They're kind of coming back and forth. I mean, 00:12:49.149 --> 00:12:51.549 was there any other like kind of key learnings, 00:12:51.629 --> 00:12:54.429 big learnings? Yeah, I think the other piece 00:12:54.429 --> 00:12:58.049 is trying to figure out how we build a community 00:12:58.049 --> 00:13:03.409 online and how you build trust online. No, I 00:13:03.409 --> 00:13:04.950 know this was something you talked a lot about 00:13:04.950 --> 00:13:07.490 trust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That it's it's just 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:11.629 so much harder than I kind of imagined, I think. 00:13:11.710 --> 00:13:16.990 Right. Right. That that you if people never see 00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:19.450 each other face to face, it's not that they can't 00:13:19.450 --> 00:13:21.330 build trust. There's lots of people who can. 00:13:21.629 --> 00:13:25.490 do that. But I think it's a lot harder. It takes 00:13:25.490 --> 00:13:28.570 a lot more time. It takes a lot more intentionality, 00:13:28.649 --> 00:13:31.990 right? And so even trying to have a life group 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.370 with people who never see each other aside from 00:13:35.370 --> 00:13:38.009 this one hour a week on the internet, right? 00:13:38.389 --> 00:13:40.509 Yeah, it's not that it's impossible. It's that 00:13:40.509 --> 00:13:43.649 it's really challenging. Yeah. I'll share a quote 00:13:43.649 --> 00:13:45.649 a little bit later that I always remember you 00:13:45.649 --> 00:13:48.750 said, and I think you're right. That is a huge 00:13:48.750 --> 00:13:50.529 learning. Remember, this is all about experimenting. 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:55.580 And that was a big learning. Yeah, trust. Can 00:13:55.580 --> 00:13:58.820 you build trust online? But maybe in addition 00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:01.399 to learnings, if I think back over the last two 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:02.960 years, you must have had some high points. You 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.379 must have had some real memorable moments, whether 00:14:05.379 --> 00:14:09.279 it was in here or out there. What were some of 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.200 the highlights for you? Yeah, I think I was surprised 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.679 at how much I enjoyed doing podcasts. Like I 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.059 when I sort of came into this job, I was like, 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:21.779 okay, I guess I'll do that But like what I found 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.860 about it was that it's a opportunity for me to 00:14:24.860 --> 00:14:27.340 get to like hear different people's stories Right, 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.740 like everybody who is on the podcast. I know 00:14:30.330 --> 00:14:32.610 Better than I would have known any other time 00:14:32.610 --> 00:14:35.769 right because I'm also Not the kind of person 00:14:35.769 --> 00:14:37.769 who really loves like small talk and like hey, 00:14:37.850 --> 00:14:39.470 let's chat about the weather I like want to be 00:14:39.470 --> 00:14:41.129 like, okay. No, tell me your life like let's 00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:43.610 get into it And so the podcast provides me with 00:14:43.610 --> 00:14:49.889 a space where like that's the job Yeah, and so 00:14:49.889 --> 00:14:52.730 yeah just getting to to hear people's stories 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:56.100 and and the way seeing people open up and like 00:14:56.100 --> 00:15:00.340 be vulnerable and willing to share more of themselves 00:15:00.340 --> 00:15:02.100 with our church family. Did that feel like really 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:03.840 natural to you in the end that we're just, I'm 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.159 just legitimately interested in hearing more 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.720 about this isn't a script or this isn't a... 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.720 Yeah, I mean, yeah, usually you come in with 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.440 a set of questions and with a, you know, this 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:13.820 is what we're going to talk about. But yeah, 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:17.860 it is often, I really try to make it flow like 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:20.639 a conversation, right? And so just jumping in 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.460 and yeah, and I think especially like there's 00:15:23.309 --> 00:15:26.070 been a few times where we've done like a panel 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:27.850 sort of series so there's been you know three 00:15:27.850 --> 00:15:31.220 or four people who have really continued through 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:33.419 a whole sermon series or through a whole church 00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:36.059 season. And those, I think, were also really 00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:38.399 interesting. Yeah, I agree. The more voices you 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:39.759 get around the table, the more perspectives, 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:42.139 you get a wild conversation and the time has 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:44.179 gone just like that. Yeah, yeah. So that was 00:15:44.179 --> 00:15:47.019 really cool. I think the other piece that's really 00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:50.440 meaningful to me was just getting to know some 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.620 of our online congregation. And especially whether 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.379 it was doing some scripture reading recordings 00:15:56.379 --> 00:15:59.000 and getting to visit people in their homes or 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.179 getting to go visit folks in the hospital and 00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:03.960 that sort of thing, right? Just like, yeah, spending 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.879 that time putting face and flesh to like what 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:10.259 I'm doing, right? Cause a lot of times it's, 00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:12.460 I'm looking at numbers in a spreadsheet or I'm 00:16:12.460 --> 00:16:15.620 looking at these statistics and that information. 00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.460 And, but to be able to say, no, this really matters 00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:20.559 to these people. Yeah. And this is important. 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:23.159 And I hope everyone who's listening caught that. 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:25.700 that one of the most valuable and memorable things 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:29.200 you did as an online engagement director was 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.919 seeing people in person. Yeah. Them in their 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.600 homes, you know, having face -to -face interactions 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.840 with them. I mean, that alone is kind of a telling 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.000 insight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not to say 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:42.980 that, you know, there's also been folks that 00:16:42.980 --> 00:16:44.539 I've had Zoom calls with and those have also 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:47.879 been helpful. But I think, yeah, just that that 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:50.740 personal connection with people is is really 00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:54.480 valuable, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Rob, 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:56.720 can you explain a little bit of what's coming 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.159 next? Okay. So, yes, there are changes coming. 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:00.679 You're probably like, okay, get to the changes. 00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:03.820 Well, here's what's happening. As we said at 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:05.319 the beginning, this was kind of always a bit 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:07.579 of an experimental space. We were going to practice 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:08.759 things. We were going to learn things. We were 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.759 going to try things. Our goal was to say, can 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.339 we bring these online viewers into deeper membership, 00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.240 deeper engagement, deeper kind of community? 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:23.700 And there's been some successes, but I think 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:25.579 sometimes as we, I mean, here's the hard thing. 00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:29.200 Sometimes you have to step back and we have to 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.779 kind of be honest at times about what we're seeing 00:17:32.779 --> 00:17:34.740 out there. And this is where I remember the quote 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:37.140 that you said to me a few months ago, but you 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:41.740 said something like, for true community to be 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:44.579 formed, what you were learning was that there 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:49.380 had to be trust. And trust was really, really 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:54.119 hard to achieve without some kind of in -person 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:56.839 embodied relationship. So community requires 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.059 trust, and your learning was trust requires some 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:02.200 kind of face -to -face interaction with people. 00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:06.420 Now that is a big learning for people who are 00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:09.079 trying to figure out online engagement, and it's 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:11.680 actually a difficult truth, in some ways a difficult 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.680 pill to swallow, that we can actually maybe only 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.400 go so far. in reaching you and connecting with 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.799 you and drawing you into the life of this church 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.440 through this particular medium. This is a great 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.759 medium for a lot of things and it's not going 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.180 away, but we are going to have to make some changes 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:32.900 to how we do this. Sorry. Yeah, no, just like 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:34.660 on that point that like this medium is really 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:37.839 important. Like I think one of the... biggest 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:39.440 things that we've seen, and like you just chat 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.279 with Sally, right? Every newcomer that she talks 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:42.799 to, she'll ask them, you know, how did you hear 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.619 about Trinity? And so, so many of them started 00:18:45.619 --> 00:18:49.759 as online viewers, right? And then they become 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.740 in -person sort of congregants, right? So, so 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:56.119 to say this is really important, but it's not 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:58.400 the be all and end all. That's right. It is, 00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:00.220 have you all heard it before? It's like the front 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:04.079 door, right? But it never, our online viewers 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.630 never kind of are like fully satisfied I don't 00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:09.910 think with just the online portion, it's always 00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:12.029 leading them into a community, maybe our community, 00:19:12.089 --> 00:19:15.069 maybe in a community. I don't know. But all that 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:19.309 learning has made us to say, OK, we need to be 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:21.910 good stewards of our resources here at Trinity. 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:25.009 And so I want everyone to know Kyla is going 00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:27.250 to continue to work. We might have to give you 00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:30.450 a different title. I don't know a job, but in 00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:33.450 a halftime capacity in this role instead of a 00:19:33.450 --> 00:19:39.049 full time capacity. But. it's not going to be 00:19:39.049 --> 00:19:41.789 quite the same that way, just because this is 00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:44.529 what we're learning. But the second thing that 00:19:44.529 --> 00:19:46.430 I want to mention, another reason why we're making 00:19:46.430 --> 00:19:49.869 these changes, is because we just did a strategic 00:19:49.869 --> 00:19:52.369 planning process as a church, where we discovered 00:19:52.369 --> 00:19:55.190 what God's good way was for us here at Trinity. 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.279 The whole congregation got a chance to participate. 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.119 We launched this strategic plan maybe like five 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.259 or six weeks ago. And what we learned was God 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:06.259 is calling us to dig deeper into discipleship, 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:09.099 to strengthen our care ministry here at Trinity, 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:12.519 to invest in the next generation, like youth 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:16.000 and young adults, to build leaders and to extend 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.519 our reach by maybe partnering with other churches 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:23.259 in our city and beyond. And so those have now 00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:26.180 kind of become some of the guiding pillars in 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:30.240 our vision as a church. And online ministry has 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.799 stuff, you know, you could say it's connected 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.059 to all of those things. But really, I think what 00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:39.039 we're being called to by our congregation and 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.519 by God is to invest more heavily in those areas. 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:44.220 And with only so many resources to go around, 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.380 we have to also maybe therefore pull back from 00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:50.099 other areas. And so, that's another reason why 00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.920 we decided to pull back a little bit from our 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.940 investment in online engagement, is to enable 00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.160 some of these other things to happen. We are 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.259 still going to have a strong social media presence. 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.259 We are still going to have a website. We're still 00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:05.920 going to live stream the services. We're still 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.079 going to have sermon notes and hybrid courses. 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.000 We're still going to offer hybrid courses, but 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.859 it's especially the Sunday morning stuff that 00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:16.819 involves you. I don't know what's going to become 00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:18.759 of the podcast yet. We don't have all the answers 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:24.880 yet. So, anywho, it's our strategic plan that's 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.660 kind of driven us in this way, partly, too. But 00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:30.140 there's actually a third thing that's happened, 00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:33.299 and that has nothing to do with me or the church. 00:21:33.380 --> 00:21:35.420 It has to do with you, because there's also been 00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:37.279 some changes that have happened in your life 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.230 or happening in your life. that are perhaps pulling 00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:43.869 you into some new directions. And I think that 00:21:43.869 --> 00:21:45.990 the congregation would love to hear about that 00:21:45.990 --> 00:21:48.049 too. What's going on? Yeah. So yeah, for the 00:21:48.049 --> 00:21:52.210 last few months, I guess this year, been sort 00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:54.069 of discerning what it would look like for me 00:21:54.069 --> 00:21:57.750 to enter into full -time ministry as a priest. 00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:01.349 And so actually earlier this spring, I sat down 00:22:01.349 --> 00:22:03.529 with some folks from the Diocese of Toronto, 00:22:04.069 --> 00:22:06.289 went through some interviews and conversations. 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:09.519 And so I've been accepted as apostate. You passed. 00:22:09.619 --> 00:22:13.259 I did. You're accepted. As a postulant in the 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.759 Diocese of Toronto. And for folks who don't know 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:17.900 what a postulant is, because it's kind of a funny 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:21.900 word, a postulant is someone who's on track towards 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:25.319 being ordained as a priest. So I do this two 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.720 year sort of postulancy process and then one 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.579 year of curacy. So when you sort of work underneath 00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:34.400 of another priest and then you're finally ordained 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.039 as a priest to sort of... go out and serve in 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.299 churches. So yeah, spending the next two years, 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:42.660 I need to go back and do a little bit more education 00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:46.960 at Wycliffe, doing some retreats and some meetings 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:51.059 with other postulants, other staff from the diocese. 00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:53.420 Yeah. And then of course, continuing in this 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:55.640 part -time role here at Trinity as well. And 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:57.640 it's very normal as well. People should know 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.700 that you may be asked to do placements at other 00:23:00.700 --> 00:23:03.759 churches that would take you away from Trinity 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:08.299 for periods of time as well. And so that's something 00:23:08.299 --> 00:23:10.640 coming up. So that's big news. It's exciting 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.420 news. I think everybody's pumped about that. 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:18.759 But what I'm wondering is like, what led you 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:23.839 to this? Like, how did you make that decision? 00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:26.400 It's a big decision. It's a big change. For sure. 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:30.140 Yeah. I think that like, if I'm really honest 00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:32.539 with myself, I think that I've been feeling a 00:23:32.539 --> 00:23:36.420 call towards full -time vocational ministry for 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:40.200 a really long time. But I think I've never really 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:43.079 had a clear sense of what that ministry might 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.519 look like. Like I've done some work previously 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.500 in like international missions and I had thought, 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:51.660 you know, even about doing like local, you know, 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:54.619 like outreach and ministry mission opportunities 00:23:54.619 --> 00:23:57.759 and things like that. But I think this opportunity 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.480 of working in a local church, so sort of rooting 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:05.410 myself in this context, has helped me to sort 00:24:05.410 --> 00:24:08.069 of both get a little bit of a taste of what that's 00:24:08.069 --> 00:24:11.490 like to just work in one church with one congregation 00:24:11.490 --> 00:24:15.809 with with this wonderful team of staff. And yeah, 00:24:15.809 --> 00:24:17.670 to get a little bit of taste of, OK, what's it 00:24:17.670 --> 00:24:20.269 like to do pastoral care? What's it like to do 00:24:20.269 --> 00:24:24.670 discipleship to do Sunday mornings? Right. And 00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:27.970 at the same time, feeling like actually more 00:24:27.970 --> 00:24:31.170 of a draw towards some of those things that. 00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:33.960 as online engagement director, I don't get to 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.619 spend all of my time doing teaching and discipleship. 00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:38.680 I don't get to spend all of my time doing pastoral 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.099 care. Right. And so feeling like, oh, those are 00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:45.960 actually things that I feel called and able to 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.599 be equipped to do their life giving and their 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:50.579 and their life giving. Yeah. Yeah. So feeling 00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:54.819 like, OK, I want I want to be able to make more 00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:57.579 space for that in my life and feeling like, OK, 00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:00.480 so. if that's the kind of work that I want to 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.019 do, then I guess I'll be a priest. I mean, the 00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:05.980 wonderful thing about it is that we don't just 00:25:05.980 --> 00:25:08.059 decide, like you said, I guess I'll do this, 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:12.619 right? There's a process and it's a discerning 00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:14.880 process and the diocese takes you through that 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:17.119 and the bishop walks you through that. And so 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.220 God can work through all of that to either affirm 00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:23.019 that call or to say, hey, this isn't the right 00:25:23.019 --> 00:25:25.779 place, not the right time. But it's really encouraging 00:25:25.779 --> 00:25:28.759 that that not only have you felt it here, but 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.180 it's been affirmed by the wider church that, 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:33.720 no, we see this. We see this in you, Kyla. Yeah. 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.799 Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's exciting. I don't 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:38.440 really know, you know, what the next two or three 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.200 or four or more years look like for sure. But 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.079 I think that, yeah, I'm excited to step into 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.480 more of that sort of church leadership and ministry 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.599 and see where God takes us. It's amazing. Yeah. 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.549 So again, Kyla is still going to be part of the 00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:00.230 Trinity team here in a reduced capacity. But 00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:02.829 that might, but this might, and I don't know 00:26:02.829 --> 00:26:04.990 the future of the podcast, but this might be 00:26:04.990 --> 00:26:08.809 your, this is probably your last podcast. I'm 00:26:08.809 --> 00:26:12.329 so glad I got to be your guest on your last podcast. 00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:18.099 And maybe I'll just shut my big mouth. You sign 00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:20.940 up for what could be the last time. Yeah. Yeah. 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:23.660 Well, thank you so much, Rob, for sharing and 00:26:23.660 --> 00:26:26.559 for being part of this whole journey with me. 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.640 And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.599 of Trinity Talks. If you have been part of our 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:34.480 online congregation, I just want to say thank 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.779 you. Thank you for tuning in so faithfully. Thank 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:41.319 you for all of the ways that you have challenged 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:44.079 and encouraged me and helped me grow through 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.480 this season. And if you're just tuning in for 00:26:46.410 --> 00:26:48.589 first time that's okay too. We're glad to have 00:26:48.589 --> 00:26:50.910 you around and maybe you can go back and watch 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:52.990 some of those other podcasts and yeah we would 00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:55.450 love to continue to hear from you and connect 00:26:55.450 --> 00:26:58.170 with you as Rob said. Our online presence is 00:26:58.170 --> 00:27:01.549 not going anywhere and so we would love to have 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:04.309 you to continue journeying with us here at Trinity.