Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Melissa.
And I'm Ben. And we are here to wrap up our podcast,
our whole teaching series actually called Growing
Season, where we are going back to the farm to
learn what the farm has to teach us about faith.
And so in last week's sermon, Mike Messenger
actually preached because Rob was away. And he
talked about these kind of obscure laws in the
book of Deuteronomy, all about gleaning. which
is this practice of harvesting, but then leaving
some of the crops in the field, leaving the edges
of the field or like, you know, when you sort
of go over the trees, don't go over them again
to get the extra grapes or apples or whatever
so that we leave them for other people, for the
poor, for the foreigner, for the widows, for
anybody who just needs extra food. And this sounds
cool. I think it sounds like a great idea. It
also sounds like really cool for farmer people
who like can practically do this. I think it's
like then then the question becomes, OK, so like
how do we do that in life? Like, does that even
matter for us today? Yeah. So just. As you think
about that and as you think about the sermon,
is there any particular parts that sort of stand
out to you? I think one of the parts that stood
out to me a lot is how intentional God is and
making us more intentional about giving and caring
to others. Okay. So usually something you get
to see of like, oh, yeah, love your neighbors.
Yeah. It's interesting to see him give consistently
practical advice of, hey, make sure to leave
X amount of food from the harvest away for others.
If you drop something, you don't have to pick
it up. Someone else can. mind that they can have
that yeah so it's interesting practice to leave
extra and make sure you're constantly thinking
of others, even if they're not there with you.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and therefore the
piece that's like, okay, not just, Hey, love
your neighbors, but like, here's how you do that.
Yeah. Constant examples. It's great. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. What about for you? I mean, I agree
completely with Ben. It really is so cool how
God is so intentional. And I love that. Um, uh,
Mike, he talked about, uh, Ruth and Boaz and
how like. From this law and from following this
practice, it led to such amazing things. So sometimes
like we might be in a period in our life where
sometimes gleaning is a little bit easier to
do. And sometimes it's a little bit harder to
do. But at the end of the day, it's like if we
still obey God and we do it, we never know where
he's going to take that. And I think it's just
like. I love that it's just such a compassionate
and intentional. You have to mindfully say like,
oh, I'm not going to go and pick that up because
someone else might need it. It's like a practice
you have to get into. Absolutely. He's the God
of love for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. And I think,
yeah, sort of similarly, like I think one of
the points that really stood out in. in the sermon
and that is sort of related to all of this is,
yeah, just the idea that it is a really intentional
choice. Yeah. Right. And that it is a choice
that's like really sort of counterintuitive to
our world and our culture right now. Right. Like,
so Mike started out the sermon by talking about,
you know, like agribusiness. Right. And how it's
always efficiency, efficiency, like don't waste
anything. Exactly. And I guess to think of. the
leaving behind as like waste as opposed to thinking
about it as, you know, a way of making space
for other people. And I think that that is a
little bit different, like in our culture today.
Like I think if a farmer today would just like
left part of their field there, people would
be like, why? And other people probably wouldn't
feel free to go and glean from that. Right. Yeah.
But are there other ways in farming or in life?
that we can like make space for other people.
And yeah, just like like leave behind or like
give away like whatever it is. Right. I think
it's really funny because if you imagine like
gleaning with what we have today instead of maybe
with fruits or with grains. Yeah. With money.
If you just start like throwing $20 bills onto
the street, people also would question. That's
just now you're living. We don't know where it
goes. Yeah. But instead of just doing that, if
you can be intentional about where your money
goes at the start of every month or wherever
you get your paycheck, setting a set of money
aside. Sure. for giving is a really, really handy
spot, whether it's giving directly to a church,
whether all of that goes to a church or all that
goes to a charity or some that goes here and
some that goes there. Right. I think it's. Partially
just to be intentional about how do I garnish
my resources, my time, my money? What do I have
to offer? Yeah. So by setting up a plan intentionally
and saying, hey, I want to give this amount away.
I want to leave some for others is probably one
of the easier ways to try and get into doing
it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Absolutely,
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to read for us
the passage from Deuteronomy. So folks have a
little bit of context for what we're talking
about here. So Deuteronomy chapter 24, starting
at verse 9. So when you are harvesting in your
field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back
and get it. Leave it for the foreigner, the fatherless
and the widow, so that the Lord your God may
bless the work of your hands. And when you beat
your olives from the trees, do not go over the
branches a second time. Leave it for the foreigner,
the fatherless and the widow. And when you harvest
grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines
again. Leave what remains for the foreigner,
the fatherless, and the widow. Remember that
you were slaves in Egypt, and that is why I command
you to do this. So just as I read that passage
of scripture, yeah, is there anything that stands
out to you? It definitely like when it mentions
like how the Israelites, they were slaves in
Egypt. So sometimes it, I guess it's human nature
to be like, well, why am I going to leave something
behind for someone else? Right. Or even in life
where like, well, why do I have to do this for
someone else? Why do I have to go the extra mile
or be very intentional? And it's just that reminder
of like, we've. all been in places where we had
to rely on someone else or if we haven't been
in those places yet I feel like eventually it's
coming it's coming exactly and I do feel like
God makes that very intentional where he's just
like you know it's time to learn it's time to
do some character development so just for the
Israelites and even for us just remembering the
times where we kind of needed someone else's
compassion and love and time um and then once
we're kind of in a place where hey we feel kind
of a little bit better a little bit good that's
also something that we can give back to right
i think it's really important to kind of keep
that cycle going because there's always going
to be people who are going to need people um
and just remain it's like a it's like reminding
us to remain humble sure yeah sure and like a
really intentional sort of commentary on what
it means to be human yeah that being human is
being people who have needs and people who are
dependent on other people right um and that's
not like sometimes we think of being dependent
on other people as like problematic or like you
know like whatever but like that's not it's not
inherently problematic right it just for like
yeah like part of the reason maybe not the only
reason but part of the reason that god asks me
to be generous to love my neighbor is because
god loves me exactly and it's because other people
love me yeah right like and it just like feeds
that cycle right and so remembering okay i'm
not I'm just giving what I have because God told
me to. I'm giving what I have because I have
been blessed. I have been given much. And so
I can give much away. Right. It talks about like
giving is better than receiving and loving each
other and caring for one another. Doesn't always
mean that we have to be a burden on the other.
Sure. Giving is a real treat. Yeah. And even
for just dealing with people, even if you in
a spot where you have all that you need, like
you're very wealthy, but like, physically and
financially but having people to have that wealth
for being able to like go through life with others
whether it's just to feed them or whether it's
to go through with camaraderie those are really
important facts it's what makes it meaningful
yeah yeah for sure i feel like um i feel like
society has been and it is growing increasingly
more like individualistic right just that idea
of like i have to protect me i have to protect
what's mine kind of idea um so i understand why
the idea of gleaning in any way might not be
super popular in our society right now however
i i think that can be really scary right and
i don't think that's necessarily a healthy sign
i think we do need to think of other people and
we kind of need to move a little bit away from
that individualistic mindset which i think this
verse is encouraging us to kind of be like if
you were on your own when you were at your lowest
yeah do you think you would still be you would
be here right now and it's like probably not
right so it's like don't think now that you can
do everything on your own or that you have to
do everything on your own when at one point in
time you couldn't Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
think one of the other points that Mike brought
up in the sermon that sort of stands out to me
is that this is an act of, of charity, of giving
away, but it's not just giving away. Yeah. Right.
It's leave these things in your field for the
foreigner, the fatherless and the widow so that
they can come and gather those things themselves.
Yeah. Right. And so there's a sense of like,
dignity of labor in that, right? That it's not
just, ah, here's a thing. It's not just handouts.
Yeah, and it's not just handouts. And I think
that there is, you know, sometimes when people
think about like charity or giving to the poor
or whatever, they're like, you know, handouts
are just no good. I think there is a time and
a place for people to just get a thing that they
need. Disaster relief? Just give it. Yeah, yeah.
You need to work for that. Yeah, yeah. But I
think that there are other times and places and
spaces in which, yeah, we are actually called
to invite people to be part of what is happening.
Absolutely. Yeah, and yeah, I just think that
that's really interesting here. I think that
is really cool because at the core of that, too
is like not excluding people right you're including
people in more than just you know making sure
that they have the needs they have you're including
them into like a practice a community and I think
that's also really important too so I think maybe
that's a different perspective on gleaning as
well where we can give money we can give time
but even just like inviting people into the things
that we're doing you know maybe another way as
well sure and i think it makes it a little more
relational too right like when i think about
okay like in the example of food i could be like
okay i'll give some food to a food bank and they'll
like distribute that and that's good do that
i could also invite someone into my house and
have dinner with them or i could go to like a
community kitchen and cook a meal with someone
else right like just all of these ways of inviting
people into the process it helps. Break down
those like barriers. Yeah. One of the things
that I really like as well about this form of
gleaning is I just did a big project for my school
on a store called Good Store. It's run by Hank
and John Green. But one of the things that they
do is they take all profits and donate them directly
to charity. Okay. But instead of it just being
give like handouts, if we give things to people,
it can be really, really good. Yeah. We also
don't want to just slap a bandaid on a bigger
problem. Sure. So one of the things that they
did is they partnered with Partners in Health.
few other organizations to build a hospital or
maternal center of excellence in Sierra Leone.
Okay. So now instead of just here's some stuff,
no, here's a hospital and a training center to
encourage them to develop. Hey, here are the
resources you have. Now you get to have more
jobs, more expertise, more knowledge. Now it's
your time to shine. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
That's incredible. It's awesome. Wow. yeah yeah
so just yeah thinking about how do we include
people in the acts of generosity i think is super
important it is one thing i also love about the
passage that stood out to me was when we're like
whacking the trees to get all the all the fruits
out yeah one of the fun things is you don't go
over it twice you just do it the once yeah partially
to help you i think partially for burnout and
make sure you don't overwork yourself you have
more of yourself to give to others yeah but then
it also does invite more people to keep coming
back to, Hey, let's do this together. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. I love that.
I mean, Ruth and Boaz, right? The whole, that's
how it kind of started. So I think it's. That's
a really good point. And yeah, like imagine having
to go back to the tree because you're like, I
left another one there. Oh, my God. It's like
right now I like grew some tomatoes this year.
And right now that some of the tomatoes are ripening,
but it seems like every day that I go back, there
are more red tomatoes that were green the day
before. Right. But like, yeah. What would it
look like to be like, OK, I'm going to wait to
the peak and then at the peak, I'll harvest all
of the red tomatoes. And then. leave the rest
i mean right now i wouldn't leave the rest because
the squirrels would eat them all and that would
be sad yeah hey the squirrels will love it yes
but um but actually yeah so in this community
garden that i'm part of um every thursday there
is like a food charity that will come and like
pick up extra vegetables and things like that
right so yeah yeah so like yeah being able to
say okay i will take the tomatoes that i need
this week and then i can give away the rest right
yeah there's another thing to be said for understanding
how much do i actually need yeah and then being
able to say okay the rest is totally okay to
be given away yeah for sure and actually it's
a really because i mean ben you're doing your
master's in like sustainable i don't like business
psychology A master's of business with an emphasis
in sustainability. Oh, okay. VA was psyched.
Super cool. All of like everything that you're
learning and have learned. But even just like
that question about like overconsumption, right?
It's like how that can be really unhealthy and
harmful socially and things like that. And just,
is it sustainable? And I feel like, I mean, I
don't think overconsumption is sustainable. You
know what I mean? The fun things that we're learning,
but especially that's bringing people together
is especially things like global warming. It's
getting really hard to tackle these things. A
lot of times the message is us as individuals
just need to be better. Right. Just like don't
consume as much. Don't buy as much. Walk whenever
you can. Don't drive as much. What we've been
looking at the data is that's not really enough
anymore to solve some of these issues. We're
past that. What we need is to get people to join
together for more collaborative efforts to bring
down total overconsumption and overproduction.
Right. We need like whole systems change. We
need systems transformation. That's a big thing.
Yeah. Absolutely. Individuals, we can be great.
Yeah. Get more people in. That's the way we make
the most change. That's cool. Yeah. So then as
you think about these like gleaning laws and
sort of practices that God advocates for, like,
what does that look like today? Especially, I
think, for those of us who aren't farmers out
there beating the trees and harvesting the wheat.
Right. Yeah. How do we put this into practice?
I think one of the ways we do is, like, classically,
generosity and giving. One of the things I like,
even just going back to my project with Good
Store, is outside of just supporting a hospital,
one of the things that they're doing is they're
putting a lot of the profits as well, now that
the hospital's almost done, is putting it towards
tuberculosis treatment and long -term care. Sure.
Because one of the ways for that one specifically
is it's an injustice in economy. We have the
tools to solve tuberculosis, and yet when we...
haven't been able to just due to inequities.
So trying to be able to send money there is one
really nice way that we can do it. But even outside
of just that, whether it's doting to people in
your neighborhood or church, those are ways.
Or if it's time, it's volunteering. Where can
you try and help out? Where do you find you have
a gift or an availability that you can use? I
mean, I love the volunteering part as well, because
I think. people do have an excess of time i think
sometimes they can feel like we don't because
we're like we have to do this and do this and
do this and it's totally fair like don't burn
yourself out don't be doing 20 things at once
because that's not sustainable and it's not very
healthy either right um but if you find that
you do have some extra time like you know whether
that's even serving at church or even just um
anywhere by just giving a little bit of that
extra time because kind of like um being a part
of like a community and being part of a system
you're you're building those relationships and
at the same time you're uh giving back and you're
reminding yourself that you're not just like
one person handling everything on your own you
are reliant on other people and other people
are reliant on you as well right yeah yeah and
then i think Yeah, I think all of this, like
generosity, volunteering, the building relationships.
I think one of the things that is just structurally
different about gleaning versus like generosity
is that it is planned ahead of time. It's like
built into the design and the rhythm of the harvest.
Right. And I think that feels really important
because it's that act of saying generosity is.
part of my life. It is how I will live. It is
like a rule, a structure that I have built in,
regardless of what's happening in my life. Yeah.
Right. Regardless of whether this is a good year
or a bad year, regardless of like what my time
or whatever's happening, I'm going to put God,
I'm going to put other people first. Yeah. That
feels really hard. Yes. But I think that that
is one of the primary things that this law is
like, The heart behind it. Yeah. So one of the
things I find interesting is like take out your
calculator sometimes and try and calculate how
much money would I make this year? How much money
do I need this year? Can I give away? And same
with time. Yeah. Look, you only have so many
hours physically in a week. Yeah. How many are
you needing? And where are the areas we can have
some wiggle room and give? Yeah. And even if
you try and mix it like a rhythm in your life
and then you realize, oh, maybe I did too much
this week. Yeah. Sometimes it's nice then to
be able to ask others to be able to support you
too. It's a community effort. You don't always
have to be the one giving. I love that. That
is such an important point too. Because I think
kind of like where we're sitting here, even if
people who have listened to the sermon from last
week, we might think of ourselves as the farmer,
right? Also, if you are in a place where you
are the gleaner, where you're the one who's like
kind of picking things up, like that's totally
okay as well. Because I think... And we're going
to be both people, both groups at different points
in our lives. And I think it's just when we do
incorporate that generosity, it's kind of like
no matter where we're at in our life, there's
like this one thing that's like kind of stable.
That's like, OK, this is how I'm being rooted
in community. This is how I'm trying to get closer
to God or putting God first in my life. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like important part
is that like generosity is the principle and
what that looks like in each person's life is
going to be different. Right. Like even financially
speaking, like we could say, oh, it needs to
be a certain percentage or whatever. Maybe. But.
it could be different amounts of money. It could
be not money at all. Right. Like some people
can be more generous financially. Other people
can be more generous with their relationships
or with their time or like with whatever is happening.
Yeah. Right. But I think, so when I think about.
the financial piece of it like what becomes really
clear to me is like if i put generosity first
if i get my paycheck and the first thing that
i do with my paycheck is give away a portion
of my money yeah then i no longer have that money
to spend on mcdonald's yes yes it's a good fail
safe right and so then like obviously like there
are things that i need to pay my rent and yeah
put gas in my car and buy some groceries like
right so like i shouldn't give away so much much
money that I can no longer afford to live but
if I give away that money first then some of
the things that I maybe would have spent that
money on that I don't actually need maybe just
don't need to happen yeah right and and that's
okay it's priorities what do you set first if
I'm prioritizing giving I'll give away first
make sure that's the thing that's most important
to me yeah and I think sometimes like so while
we're talking about mcdonald's sometimes okay
maybe i personally spend a lot of money on fast
food i don't think i do particularly but like
sometimes that's like a social activity too and
it's like oh well if i don't have money to spend
on going out with my friends then like i won't
see my friends but maybe you can find ways to
spend time with your friends that don't cost
money and maybe that will be a really weird mind
shift for some people maybe they're like well
the thing that i do with my friends is go out
for dinner or go to the movies or whatever right
and like if you have space in your time and your
budget to do that great but like maybe as a friend
group you can sort of shift what you're doing
and say actually well what if we just all came
in and had dinner or what if we all go out and
do this volunteer thing together right like are
there ways that we can shift not just our personal
sort of sense of generosity but like our our
social yeah what we do with other people i think
it's really funny now because i have a big friend
group online and a lot of times for depending
on which group of friends i'm playing sure a
lot of them are really tight on money sure one
of the things we always come back to is games
that are free to play sure are some of our favorites
yeah but even outside of that it's a community
effort if we're all saying hey i found this really
fun game that we want to play it's like five
dollars and like I really don't want to spend
money right now. I need to prioritize like rent
and savings for school. Sure. Great. No worries.
I have a lecture. I got you. Sure. It's community
effort. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And just like,
I feel like it's like when you're with your friends,
right? It's like, even just in that case, it's
like, you know, this is someone that you care
about. It kind of just like a little bit, like
it kind of comes naturally in a way. Um, and
even just in the verse, it's like when the farmer
is like, harvesting doing the whacking of the
trees and things like that it's i mean i mean
i would assume that he's not like intentionally
being like i'm not gonna pick that one i'm gonna
pick this one well okay maybe maybe a little
but it's kind of like it seems like naturally
there's just gonna be things that are gonna be
left behind yeah um and i think it's cool that
god made it that way because I think maybe we
can kind of look in our lives and being like
well where have things just naturally where do
we just naturally have an extra bit of time or
naturally where we could um help someone out
or build relationships or maybe give a little
bit more to like church or just anywhere right
and I think sometimes it doesn't have to be like
a okay let me very intentionally give $20 to
my friend every single week it could be like
oh like we have the same interest. We all like
each other. Oh, hey, five dollars. I'll do that.
I think that it just comes a very like natural,
smooth way. Sure. Or maybe it doesn't have to
be such a huge pressure thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
I think one thing as well that's really beneficial
is trying to help like destigmatize and remove
the shame from being the people who do need to
glean. Yeah. If you're just in a spot where like
maybe you got just laid off and you don't have
everything you need. Right. There's no shame
in being laid off, especially if it wasn't your
fault. Right. So some of the things is being
able to lift people up and not put them down,
not being like, oh, I'll leave some for you peasant
in the side. Right, right, right, right. Don't
say like, oh, that's hard. I've been there too.
And can we help out? Yeah. Hey, I'm there for
you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So
what do you think? makes it so hard to put this
into practice, right? So the principle, generosity,
leaving space for other people sounds really
good. I think we're all kind of on board. Why
don't we all do that? Speaking as someone in
school, like a lot of people around my age are
really concerned with a lot of things of student
debt. How much does schooling cost? Combine that
with cost of living, increasing cost of grocery
prices, increasing gas prices all over the map.
So a lot of people are going, I don't know that
I have physically enough for me, especially with
like the classic American dream. Like make yourself
your own person. Be able to buy a house is usually
one of the big dreams. Yeah. And for a lot of
people, that's not really a reality right now.
Sure. And so especially when you're looking at
those goals, it comes really hard to say, yeah,
I have extra to give when I physically can't
attain some of these goals. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it looks like it's basically just a shift
of mindset. We're playing a different game now.
How can we change this game? And hopefully there's
a lot of other people playing the game to help
us change it. Sure. But how can we shift from?
a moment of scarcity saying, I don't know that
I have enough to being able to have a more open
hand posture and be able to give just a little
bit. I think also just, I feel like, yeah, like.
as things get increasingly individualistic, it
makes sense. Like, I feel like there's a social
contract sometimes where it's like, for example,
in this case, it's kind of like a social contract
where the farmer who might be a little bit more
well -off, they are supporting people who are
going to need that extra support. At the same
time, I feel like there's another social contract
where it's like the older generation, they take
care of the younger generation. I feel like that's
not happening as much anymore. And I feel like
that's why we have students, young people who
have goals and all these things, but they're
They're like, oh, my gosh, I need to save money
for this. I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to
do that. And it's like that makes so much sense.
And I guess the way that things are, yes, do
that. But at the same time, it's kind of like
maybe you guys are the gleaners. Are the farmers
leaving things for you guys? And maybe just socially
where things are at, that's not what's happening.
Right. And it's like those. kind of social contracts
are being broken down and then what's happening
is again like young people they're just trying
to survive and kind of keep up not to blame the
older generation um because i feel like i'm part
of the older i feel i feel old but it's kind
of like even just for me being like okay like
if i'm you know, I'm almost 30, then like, what
can I then do for the younger generation so that
they can have things a little bit more, like
ease things a little bit more too. And I think
it, yes, I think in your example, because I think
that just like is really sitting with me as being
like, you know, young people, you're just trying
to survive. So then what can the older generation
do? What can groups that feel a little bit more
well -off do? And I think that the shift in mindset
is going to have to come from those kind of people
and at the same time setting an example as well
sure um and then having young people being like
well yeah where can i you know maybe give a little
bit more sure yeah and i think recognizing that
like everyone not everyone everyone but a lot
of people yeah are feeling crunched yes right
and so not to say that that is anyone's particular
fault not to say that like yeah it's just there's
bad systems out there that are just not working
for people absolutely right um and so in that
how can we as followers of jesus say I'm not
playing that game. Yeah. Right. To say, OK, the
vision of of the American dream of the house
with the white picket fence and the kids and
the dog and whatever. Right. This is a great
vision. I would love that. That would be great.
But how do we opt out? And so I'm not playing
that game. Yeah. Because actually what matters
to me is. family actually what matters to me
is loving my neighbor actually what matters to
me is justice like whatever it is right and say
that's what i want to orient my life towards
right and therefore generosity just has to be
part of that right because it's all in that same
pathway and i'm not saying that's easy no um
it and it will sound weird to a lot of people.
It will not be successful, quote unquote. Like
you're maybe not going to see the fruit of that
in your life. Right. But just believing that
that is the better way. That is the game. To
play. Starting the spark that changes way more
than just what we can on our own. Yeah. I think
one of the ways as well that we can try to do
this, especially moving away from just financially
giving, is getting involved in your communities.
Yeah. If this is a game that doesn't work for
us, but is still the game that we're all playing,
having a voice, trying to go to whether it's
local events or voting, especially for voter
turnout, is still really, really low in almost
every area. Sure. So trying to have more people
use your voice to say, hey, I think the game
needs to change. How can we make this a better
game for everyone? How do we change the systems
that are currently in place that are failing,
whether it's repairing them or just totally shifting
them, finding something new. If no one says anything,
it's not going to change. Got to work together
for it. Yeah. I love that. So and it's kind of
just like, yeah, I think maybe just socially
we need more gleaning in our society. And maybe
like I think Christians, we do have to. be the
people who are trying to glean and love thy neighbor
and do the things that God has told us to do
in a world where people are moving away from
that. And it's like, I understand why people
are moving away from that. Cause things, again,
people are in a crunch. It feels more urgent.
It feels more like if I don't do this and like
all these things are going to happen. And sometimes
they, they do happen. Right. But I think it's
like as Christians kind of taking on. bearing
that cross right yeah yeah yeah and just like
believing fully or maybe believing partially
but like doing it anyway but just like believing
that it is the better way yeah yeah right even
though it makes no sense that the way of jesus
that chooses self -sacrifice that chooses generosity
and love over a vision of success, right? That
just is the better way. Yeah. That just is what's
going to ultimately make us happier, make us
healthier, make us wholer as people. Yeah, because
I think the truth of the like American dream
success path is that like you get the white picket
fence and the two kids and the dog and you're
like stuff there. But but no, you get the white
picket fence and the two kids and the dog and
you're like, oh, actually, well, what if I also
just had this nicer car? One more. What if I
also just like got this one more promotion in
my job? Right. Whereas if you opt out of that
and you say. actually, I'm not playing that game.
My definition of success is all based on faithfulness
to Christ. Then, like, you can be satisfied at
a certain point. What do I need? And if all I
really need is God? Well, that's a, that's a
low bar. He's already there for me. It's awesome.
And also just like, again, I just, so I just
love their story of Ruth and Bo. That is one
of my favorite stories in the Bible because it
just shows like how intentional God is. And generally
it's like, as we're having this conversation,
like people might think like, okay, so I guess
I'm just. going to glean i'm going to also leave
things for people i'm going to you know set up
the system and maybe there's this there is this
idea of like self -sacrifice which i think is
is important um but also you never know where
god is going to take something right yeah maybe
you've spent your leaving like three hours of
your week to serve in church or to go here or
to do something. Right. You never know what God
is going to use from that to bring really cool
things into your life. Maybe you thought you
needed those three hours to work three more hours.
Sure. More hours. Yeah. Yeah. But. You just never
know, right? And I think God never asked us to
be like, okay, figuring everything out. He just
asked us to obey. He asked us to stick with him
and then he kind of handles the rest. Yeah. Of
all the systems that have not failed us, God's
the big one. Oh, I love that. Oh, that popped
up. That was really good. Thank you. Yeah, so
as we sort of wrap up, are there any sort of
like practical tips or like, thoughts that you
might leave people with with okay what does it
look like to leave margin in our finances in
our time in our relationships i think the thing
for me is just to be intentional about it whether
it's start of the week or start of every month
start of every year it's just take a little bit
of time to be intentional about how can i give
where can i give sure and if you're not in a
position where you can give much the pressure
is not for you to give a lot it's to give what
you can Yeah. And so it's be intentional. Hey,
I might be able to volunteer here or maybe I
can just help out, whether it's just with friends.
Sure. I can be there for them. And this time.
Yeah. Just being intentional. Set some time aside.
Try to plan it out and build it into your daily.
Yeah. One of the things that I really like that
Mike talked about was like in leaving margin
in our attention for other people. Right. That
sometimes it's just about asking one more question.
It's just about hearing the end of that story
and not being like, oh, sorry, I need to do this
other thing. But just being like, yeah, let's
just take some space right now to be fully present
with this other person. And that is something
that doesn't cost us any money. It costs us some
time. It costs us some mental energy. And maybe
not everybody has the space for that, but a lot
of people do. You can take that time. two minutes
to ask that one more question to just dig a little
deeper dig a little deeper be a little more present
yeah yeah the same with like you know the five
minutes after the church right just taking that
time to like talk to people get some coffee get
some cookies and even just like that can feel
like especially if you've had a long week you're
like i just want to go home yeah but it's like
just kind of taking that time and you never know
what might come out of it right and you never
know how that might fill your cup or fill someone
else's cup um and i think just i love ben what
you said about intentional because we can be
like oh yeah so i'm just gonna set 10 of my earnings
and then i'm just gonna that's my way of contributing
but it's like if you're just kind of like i guess
giving the money but you're not building that
relationship you're not actively trying to get
involved in like systems and communities and
it's kind of like well maybe we can look at volunteering
you know or maybe if people feel uncomfortable
with giving because it is something that folks
feel uncomfortable with which is just so valid
right um then just Give an hour of your week
or give two or three hours of your week. Yeah.
And just start there. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, folks.
Yeah, I think this has been really helpful to
unpack this. Yeah. Sort of random law. Right.
That we can read it and be like, OK, cool. I
don't harvest grapes. So moving on. Right. But
there's a principle there. It was intentional.
It was super intentional. And God says, leave
space. for other people, even when it's hard,
even when it means that you're not going to be
successful by the world standards, there is a
better way. And there is a way that shows love.
for our neighbors and therefore brings love back
to us. Yeah. Right. As we build these whole communities
of people that care for one another really well.
Yeah. Our job is just to find it and choose it.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And thank you for tuning
in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I
pray that you are able to make space for other
people, whether that is in your finances, in
your time, in your attention, in your energy.
And I pray that you are surrounded by people
who make space for you and that together, as
we all make space. We can share in the beautiful
love that God has given to each of us. And we'll
see you again next week.