Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is
Amalvel. And my name is Ben. And we are here
to continue talking about the Growing Season
sermon series, where we are going back to the
farm to learn what the farm... has to teach us
about faith and today we're talking about the
power of community on the farm and how you know
farmers generally aren't out there doing it all
by themselves whether they have you know hired
hands or they have family or they have neighbors
there's all kinds of people who like pitch in
to sort of make that farm work and yeah get get
all its farming done um Yeah. And so in our sermon
today, Rob talked to us about, yeah, this idea
of, you know, the farm, but also then how in
our own lives, we were never meant to live life
alone. Right. That even like if you go back to
Genesis, the very first thing that God says is
like, you know, it's not good for this man to
be alone. They need someone to sort of be with
them. Yeah. So I'm just wondering, as you guys
sort of reflect on the sermon and all of the
passage and things like that. Was there one piece
that like really sort of stood out to you? I
get to say the classic big piece, which is we
are better together. Yeah. Especially right now
in a world that seems a little bit more divisive
as of late, especially through politics or honestly
on a lot of different issues. Sure. But politics
is the main one that comes to mind. But when
we divide ourselves, we aren't as strong. But
when we're able to connect even with each other,
even if it's across political lines, to have
those more meaningful conversations and even
just help each other out, be willing to interact
with people, help each other and talk through
things. really makes a big difference yeah we're
not meant to do it solo yeah yeah yeah for sure
for sure and what about you a marvel uh what
stood out is the the benefits of having community
and the fact that you really you know it does
it is it is a beneficial thing and especially
i mean sometimes that can be a bit challenging
to come across like especially if you're a loner
usually like for me like that's how i grew up
you know i was always like the one that Didn't
really have friends. Wasn't, like, the social
guy. Didn't want to be the social guy. Sure.
You know? So me, myself, and I was plenty, thank
you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I
had that one best friend, and that was it, you
know? But definitely, especially when things
get challenging, it's nice to be able to have
community. It's nice to have people that you
can turn to and talk to. And I think sometimes
you don't really discover it until... You're
with a religious community. OK. Sometimes, you
know, like like as a Christian community where,
you know, we may come from different backgrounds,
but Christ embedding our lives to Christ is what
ties us all together. Right. You know, versus
if you're, you know, just growing up in the public
school system or or whatever, you know, you have
people of other faiths or different faiths or
don't believe anything or whatever, you know,
it's. And yeah, okay, diversity is our strength
and whatever. But at the same time, you also
want to be able to have something that unifies
you. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think
it's that like, so there's this verse in, in
this passage in Ecclesiastes four, and that we'll
maybe talk about later, but where it says, you
know, that like two is better than one, but like
a cord of three strands is not easily broken.
Right. And so taking this and be like, yeah,
you and me and like us as, as a human community
together is really good. But when we introduce
Christ into that, it just like strengthens and
deepens that relationship. Like so much more.
Yeah. Yeah. And just go back. to your point as
well as someone who grew up in the public school
but also in the church i think it's really fascinating
where you can have communities in both places
yeah with lots of great benefits to both but
what the church does that's so like amazing is
it really unifies people so effectively there's
rarely been a case where i've come to a church
and not have people immediately come up like
hey right willing to join in conversation talk
with you Whereas if you just like walk into a
public school and say, hey, I'm here, you might
get a few people just staring. Like, hey, nobody
cares. It's like, let's get in and go to talk
with the people. It's a little bit different.
That's where the power of Christ is bringing
people together is really meaningful. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think especially when people are willing
to like really lean into that. Right. That people
are really willing to sort of say, hey, there
are lots of different differences here. Right.
There's lots. people from different backgrounds
and experiences and language and ethnicity and
genders and whatever. Right. But like Christ
holds us all together and they're willing to
sort of say, Hey, because you're here, like looking
to follow Jesus, learning, looking to learn about
Jesus, like let's figure it out together. Absolutely.
Yeah. And it's where you can learn stuff from
like other people of other backgrounds. You get
to learn from them, but it's also one of the
places you get to share Christ as well with others.
Yeah. So it's great to like, I can learn stuff
from you, but also. if I'm only ever around Christians,
I never get to share my faith as well with others.
Right. So yeah, great duality. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure. So when you think about this sort of
message of community and like, you know, needing
each other and that sort of thing, do you think
that that really sort of is mirrored in like
our culture's values and beliefs? Or is it sort
of like opposed in some way? I think when it
comes to mental health, people are really starting
to come back to community. But I think as well,
you know, especially even with the pandemic after
and all that. The thing is, is that a lot of
people have online communities. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
And really that for me, I'm not a social guy.
You know, I'm more of an introvert, but even
me. If I'm going to have interactions, I need
it. It has to be face to face. Sure. You know,
like honest, like, OK, like we could have this
podcast on different screens, you know. But I
mean, it's not the same as being face to face.
You know, there's no lagging. There's no nothing.
Nobody's cutting out or anything like that. Yeah.
And I mean, I think it's just it's like I think
we just have to remember to go back to the roots
of before, you know, the interconnected world,
really. I mean, sure. But I think it's a generational
thing. I always like to say it's like when I
grew up playing video games, if there was a two
-player game, you and that person have to be
in the same room. There's no online play. It's
like you sit here, I sit there, and we have fun.
Now everything is online this, online that, online
communities. I guess it can work for some people,
but you know, I just find like there's more joy
when it's everybody's together in the same room.
And I mean, that's also where you can develop
humor that way because everything is, it's fast
paced. It's you're reactive, you know? Sure.
And you get to read the people a lot better.
It's way easier to read like body language when
you can see them. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah.
Yeah. So I think you're right that there are
some ways that like, yeah, our culture. is sort
of moving towards a bit more independence or
yeah sort of away from traditional ideas of community
i do think online community works well for some
people and like for them it's great i'm sort
of in a similar boat where like i would much
rather chill with people face to face but yeah
that's i don't know that's my experience like
i get both camps and i have multiple friends
who i've like barely ever seen in person if ever
and i get to hang with them like weekly and have
tons of phone online But it's a different in
a different relationship in that sense. Sure.
Great friends. But I actually don't know what
you look like. Yeah. Versus in person. I get
to come in and I see all the friends, whether
it's here at Trinity or just playing with my
twin. Hey, awesome. Let's go play at the park.
Let's go run. It's a very different dynamic.
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you think about
like our culture and that idea of like. Interdependence
versus independence. Like, yeah, where do you
see the tensions and mirrors? Some of the tensions
I get to see is both in different cultures. I
think in our culture, it's much more individualistic,
where we're a lot more focused on the individual
being self -sustaining, just like that lone farmer
myth. Whereas I think as we're slowly realizing,
hey, being alone seems really not great for mental
health. Yeah. We're slowly coming back to, OK,
connection actually does have a lot more benefits.
And in my practice or in my schooling for psychology,
a lot of people, there seems some psychologists
who say we only really heal when we're actually
connected with others. Right. It's very hard
to heal just on your own. Sure. Yeah. So that
I think that's really interesting to think about,
like the mental health side and the like. that
healing is only really possible in community,
because I think a lot of people would react to
that and say, well, community was what hurt me.
Yes. Right. Like other people are the problem.
Absolutely. Right. I was doing fine. Sort of
a double edged sword, really. Yes. It's about
like finding the right. group of people yeah
you know who you surround yourself with matters
yeah so how do you think we like navigate that
tension of like okay people are sometimes the
problem people are also the solution to the problem
people are the place of healing like What does
it look like to navigate that tension? Some of
the things that I think about is like you, people
will say you have your circles, you have your
people. Yeah. And you can interact with all sorts
of people. But I think it's good to both have
a home base of a support group, like a life group
or people who you can really trust. Sure. But
also still be able to interact with others, try
to have like more diverse conversations, more
challenging conversations. If there's situations
where it's not really the healthiest, then I
think it's the ability to say, hey, I can respect
you as a person. You're made in God's image.
That's awesome. I'm going to respect you just
at a slight distance. Sure. You know, they're
happy to interact in pleasantries and conversations.
But if it's not healthy, then there's ways of,
OK, how can we distance just a little bit? Sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Or that's where you kind of put on
your own mask kind of a thing, because it's like,
you know, there's different ways of, you know,
like. For example, if you're in sales or interacting
with customers, you're going to be one way versus
if you're with your friends versus with your
family. But sometimes you have to treat that
as well when it comes to groups where you're
polite, you're respectful with certain people,
but you also have a core people like these are
my people. I can definitely relate because...
While I am Christian, most of my family is not
Christian. Gotcha. On both sides of the family.
And on my mom's side of the family, they're pretty
much Muslim. Okay. So, you know, even when there's
get togethers in my house or whatever, you know,
it's a whole bunch of Muslims. So, you know.
A little bit more diversity. So, you know, I
have to interact and be respectful and be Christlike
and all of that. Yeah. But. I find my joy when
I come to church. That's my people. Yeah. You
know? Yes. My like group. That's my people. Mm
-hmm. You know? The rest of the time, it's just
sort of, you just do the best you can. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of
the idea of being a good ambassador. Mm -hmm.
The point of ambassador is to, like, go to the
other places and speak well on their behalf,
but you also still have a home to go back to
at some point. Yeah. And it is challenging because
it's like, there's things that come up in my
life that, you know, like, I don't want to, like,
I don't want to say because they're not going
to understand. They're not going to care. For
me, I'm still looking for work, but I'm trying
to make it so that I'm still able to attend my
life group on Wednesday and still be able to
go to church on Sunday. So I can't be like, well,
the job mark is not that great because all these
jobs don't work for me. They're not going to
care or they're going to say, oh, maybe you're
making excuses or whatever. i can't interact
in that way so you just sort of like in some
ways you gotta sort of like compartmentalize
sure and yeah and you need to find the right
group of people that you can be fully honest
with and that you can be like yeah here's all
of the things that i'm trying to work through
and who ideally come from a same or a similar
set of like values and ways of thinking about
the world that yeah that can help you through
that so that they're not like oh well you should
just try it this way you're like oh do this thing
that like you wouldn't feel good about Right,
right. Yeah. It's like when the priorities and
values are very different, it leads to be very
hard to get proper advice that you feel good
about and actually act on. For sure, for sure.
Hard to feel understood or valued. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. So then in like Christian community,
sometimes we, yeah, we talk about this sort of
word of like Christian community or we talk about,
you know. folks who like do life together or
like that sort of a thing so okay this all sounds
cool what what does that look like like what
does it mean to be in community with other people
i i think for me it just means it does it means
that like if you have the opportunity to go out
somewhere it doesn't have to be a christian event
but you're you're surrounding your your circle
that you're around is christian okay so you know
again you don't have to be like oh well i'll
only go out if it's uh uh some christian artist
is performing then i'll go out with you know
it's like sure you can just be like uh you know
let's go to a coffee shop and have and hang out
or there's uh you know there's a free barbecue
in the park let's go and hang out you know sure
is that you're just it's just a man it's just
I think when you're living in the Christian community,
I think what it means is that you're able to
be as open as possible. Because again, there
are things that happen in your life or things
that come up that you're like, I want to say
something, but I can't. And if it's a good Christian
community, you should be able to say anything
and everything. Sure. Yeah. yeah you may be challenged
on it but it's the idea that they're able to
listen and not just judge you entirely for it
yeah guide you so it's the guide them gently
shepherd the people don't just yell up yes and
i mean obviously as christians sometimes we have
different competing views on the things you know
yeah There's so many theories about, everybody's
got a theory about the revelation and times and
pre -trip, strip, rapture. Is there anything
like that? Who gets into heaven and all this
kind of stuff. But the fundamentals are the same.
there's the common ground being able to help
each other out where we can challenge where we
can and we'll learn from each other even through
the disagreements yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure
um what about for you ben like when you think
about like what does christian community look
like what would you sort of say To me, it looks
a little bit more mundane than you might expect,
but it just feels like Christians leaning on
other Christians. Whether that's day -to -day
interactions, just saying, hey, how was your
day? Or catching up with people. Or it's when
people start to go through hard times, being
able to ask for help or lean on it. Or notice
someone else might want a little extra help or
need something. Right. It's not just doing everything
solo, then coming to church, saying hi, and then
go home. yeah we can all interact and actually
like help each other through daily life so whether
it's coming in just saying hey life group just
being with each other just simply being there
with someone is really helpful or if you need
challenging questions needs a answer to say i
don't really know what to do here or i had something
hard come up having people have your back and
be able to support you is really big and so especially
if you come under faith together have that connection
to underlie it just makes it them stronger yeah
yeah yeah and that like requires that's like
costly and like risky i think right because it's
it's so easy for us to just be like oh i'll just
come to church like do the church service thing
yeah maybe get my coffee and cookie and like
hide in the corner and then just like be like
no i'm gone right but like to be like no i actually
want to like stop and and like build relationships
and like ask people about their life and allow
people to ask me about my life yeah right like
that that's risky engage in both ways yeah yeah
yeah yeah um but i think it's so worthwhile when
you can do it really well right like i yeah i
just think about different communities or like
groups of people that i've been part of in different
moments of my life and just having Somebody that
I can just go to and be like, hey. This was a
terrible day. And they were like, yeah, that
sounds bad. Want to go like get some ice cream?
Yeah. Right. It makes it much better. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Or just, yeah, those people who can be
like, yeah, that sounds really hard. Or like,
yeah, like let's like talk through this complicated
thing together and like just having a sounding
board for some of that. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially
with having a community like training where you
have a lot of people. Yeah. It's even better
because you get to have like good friends and
people who connect with really well. But there's
also all sorts of people with expertise. and
backgrounds were like, hey, maybe I'm having
financial troubles. Maybe there's someone here
who's good at finance. Hey, maybe I have a question
about like theology. Oh, I think Pastor Rob might
be okay with that. You can have people with all
sorts of expertise that you can lean on and ask
for help. It's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
And I think the other thing that comes to mind
for me is like sometimes people will think about...
christian community and they'll like make it
into this whole big thing that it that it can
be right like there's such a thing as like intentional
christian communities where people are like yeah
we're gonna like live together and we're gonna
like share all of our meals and pool financial
resources and that's super cool and like great
for the people that that works for but like that's
not the only way to do christian community not
the only way yeah right that like being part
of a life group showing up on sunday morning
just like being like hey let's go out for coffee
with just like one or two other people like that
is also sort of Christian community, I think.
Yeah. Even if I'm playing online video games
with friends who are still Christians, that's
still a Christian community. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally bad. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think
sometimes, though, it's like, I wonder how well
we're doing as a community compared to other
communities. Okay. Because it's like, I've heard,
like, I've heard of, like, Muslim communities
and Hindu communities where there'll be a mosque
or a temple. Mm -hmm. And... The people that
are in the neighborhood are all of that community.
So they all walk over together. They all commune
together. You know, they're all interacting.
You know, your neighbors are of the same faith.
You know what I mean? And so it's like, do we
have really that in our community? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I think that level of community, like also
I think is requires a different kind of. culture
and ethos in some extent that doesn't always
translate i think in especially in urban western
environments maybe this is my you know small
town rural bias coming out but like yeah i think
it's i think that is so good but also so much
easier to do when everyone lives next door to
each other and like when the whole community
is of the same faith and like all investing in
the same particular sort of expression of that
i think when it comes to christian community
i think what's important is okay yeah you know
obviously in a perfect world you'd go to church
everybody's the same faith everybody's christian
everybody right That's not reality. Maybe like
50 years ago or something when people actually
closed on Sundays and didn't, you know, but it's
like, you know, it's like, okay, you're not expected
to necessarily go out into the world and always
be around Christians. You may be the only Christian
in your work environment or whatever, but you
got to have a basis to come back to. That's what
that's what's important. For sure. And that's
why sometimes it can be frustrating, you know,
even for me where it's like, I'll have a great
day. I'll be with my community. I'll have a really
good time. I really feel good. And then I'm coming
back to a house that's not Christian. Yeah. You
know, so it's like. Yeah. So it's being able
to have a basis to come back to. For sure. For
sure. It's kind of like introverts and extroverts,
but with communities. Yeah. I like it, but it
does drain me. Whereas this one, I just get refreshed.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So the passage that
Rob read with the sermon was from Ecclesiastes
chapter four. So I'm just going to read part
of it here for us, starting at verse nine. Two
are better than one because they have a good
return for their labor. If one falls down, his
friend can help him up. But pity the man who
falls and has no one to help him up. Also, if
two lie down together, they will keep warm. But
how can one keep warm alone? Though one may be
overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord
of three strands is not quickly broken. Um, so
in this passage, it gives us this whole sort
of list of benefits of having other people around,
you know, the, you have two people, you have
a good return for your labor. They can sort of
help you get back up when you fall down, you
stay warm, you can defend yourselves and overpower
your enemies. So when you think about those lists
of benefits, is there one of them that like stands
out to you more? Uh, I think for me it would
be, uh, when one falls, you pick them up. Okay.
That's just, I mean, that, I mean, that's, Cause
I mean, at the end of the day, that's what you,
you, you want. I mean, obviously you, in your
darker times, you want to, you have to rely on
Christ and God, but it's also nice to be able
to have somebody physically there that you can
turn to, you know, especially if it's like a
mentor who can both physically or just figuratively
lift you up. Yeah. Because I think we all get
into, and it's, that's why it can be frustrating
with life is because, you know, We get into these
frustrations and sometimes you open up to somebody
and they're not going to tell you what you want
to hear, or they're going to tell you something
that is like, well, you're not being helpful.
You're not being supportive, you know? And it's
so it's like, that's why it's important to also
be with a good Christian community. You know,
sometimes it's not like, you know, it's like,
maybe, you know what the solution is, but it's
like, okay, well, Sometimes it's just good to
be able to have somebody to be like, I hear you.
I understand. I've been there. Or, hey, I know
this is tough, but you're going to get through
it. Right. Versus, well, you just got to keep
going. Or, well, that's what you just have to
do. It's like, okay, yes, thank you, Captain
Obvious. But that's not what I want to hear.
Yeah, for sure. Classic joke in psychology was
your therapist just says, just stop doing it.
Just stop it. Don't be depressed. Don't be anxious.
Oh, is that all? That's all. Yeah, apparently.
Super simple. But what they found is way more
effective is a lot of therapists just sitting
or being with the people. Just being able to
be authentic with the person, sit there, and
help them slowly figure out the answers for themselves,
not just say, oh, it's this. Oh, you're just
doing it wrong. Right. It's way more beneficial.
Yeah. Support rather than just advice. Yeah.
For a while, especially in psychology, people
were very good at giving advice. And doing not
much support. Sure. So it's great to see we're
learning, okay, support, it does help. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Way more. Yeah. Yeah. What about
for you, Ben? Is there one of the benefits that
stands out to you? I think making it worth the
toil is a big one for me. Yeah. One thing that
I get to look at, especially with some psychology
stuff that I've been looking at, is there's a
big kind of lack of purpose for a lot of people.
Sure. Where some people just go, I don't really
know what to do with my life or where to go,
especially if things are poor, like the economy
is not great. i don't really know what religion
they follow because i think none according to
like no religion is one of the most uh fast growing
really religious groups yeah um so it's finding
out okay where's the purpose where's the meaning
in some of this i don't just want to get up go
to work work like my butt off to come home make
dinner and then go to sleep and then repeat the
whole thing yeah where's the purpose and where's
the meaning right and so having that community
be able to work through it together and have
like a reason to do it is really, really valuable.
I think I get to see a little bit of that in
like little kids, especially in parents. Yeah.
You get to come home to your little one. That
seems like a way more valuable experience. Like,
hey, I got to come home, see my kid. They're
smiling, get to support them. That makes work
meaningful. Whereas if I'm just sitting at home
doing it all for myself, it kind of makes it
not feel so purposeful. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. No, I think that that sense of meaning
is definitely really important. I think the piece
that stands out for me is this idea of like,
you know, when two people are together, you can
like warm each other up. You can like stand up
against the cold. And like Rob talked about that
in the sermon as being like, you know. you want
people who can like help you get back up when,
when you fall down, but sometimes you can't get
back up. You just have to like endure the storm.
Right. And even then it's still better to have
people to endure the storm with. Yes. Right.
Um, and who maybe aren't experiencing it exactly
the same way you are. And like, maybe that's
better that they're not experiencing it exactly
the same way you are, but who are committed to
being present and like showing up and just being
like, yeah, this sucks, but at least it doesn't,
you don't have to like sit in that by yourself.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is really
sort of important. Um, even in psychology, one
thing that we look at is the role of friends
where it's like, if you're a friend, your job
isn't to like be the therapist for your other
person who's going through a hard time. Right.
That's a therapist job. Your job as friends,
just be there for them. Yeah. Help support where
you can. If you can't support, you don't have
answers. just walk through with them you don't
have to fully understand you just have to be
there yeah you have to be able to say how can
i help you right not uh here i'll help you it's
like it's like okay maybe i don't need that help
but it's like you know or you know a good example
is when people go through mourning a loss of
somebody yeah or even on an anniversary you know
of a death or whatever your job should be do
you want me around do you want us to go out yeah
do you want what do you want do you want how
how can i help you you know i'm here just let
me know how i can help best yeah yeah you want
to be alone good okay fine you know that's fine
i'll give you space yeah you want to go out for
dinner fine you want to go to a movie fine you
know yeah but you you the mourner controls the
as the has the ball sort of yes that's the you
know that's the pace yeah yeah yeah and to sort
of go back to like what you were saying earlier
on marvel but like helping people up um so one
of the things rob said in the sermon was like
in a time of crisis we should not just be offering
advice we should be offering sort of practical
support um so yeah what what do you think that
looks like and like why do you think people often
try to go for advice rather than support I feel
like sometimes if you give advice, you can do
that from afar. You don't actually have to be
there. Yep. Yep. You don't have to get like into
it. You're like, you gotta be like, you can be
like, oh, that sucks. Yeah. Well, uh, here's
what I would do. Bye. You know? Right. You know?
Yep. Are you depressed? I hear going for walks
helps. Yeah. No, no. Don't talk to me about your
depression. Just go for a walk. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Am I going to join you? No, but you, no, but
you got this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It, it,
yeah, it, it like really, This is a sense of
responsibility and keeps us like a safe distance
away. Like keep your stress or your sadness or
your anger over there. It teaches us how to detach
and say, like, I can support from afar, but I'll
be too detached. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Was what
we're talking about is more that Christian community,
the supports that stays with them during it.
Right. Or with advice, you can be like, have
you tried this? Have you tried that? Have you
tried that? Right. And then it's like, what do
you get? No, no. You're yes. Yes. All the time.
It's like, well, then. I got nothing. Bye. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So why do you think it's important
for us to maybe sometimes offer advice, but to
pair that with offering support? Like what what's
the benefit of doing it that way? The benefit
is advice can still be good. It's just often
feels like impersonal. Sure. But having support,
you can actually give advice like, hey, I know
you're struggling with this. I've actually found
this way works really well for me and it might
work for you. Let me walk through it with you,
support you the whole way. Sure. I'm there if
you need me. I'm there for help. I'm there to
guide if you need that. Yeah. But it's way more
personal. It helps you to just go through the
hardships together as a unit bearing the burden
rather than just having one person bear it all
alone. Sure. Yeah. A good example of that would
be with the Alpha program that we have. Because
even in our life group, we had for the series
in Alpha, we were missing like... two or three
people but that's because they were there to
support new people going through the program
right you know so sometimes that's you know it's
like hey i've been you're right hey i've been
there let me walk you through this yeah It's
the benefit of having that life group where you're
able to come back to your home group, but also
still go out and help others. Yeah. Yeah, for
sure. Yeah. I think another thing that comes
to mind for me around that is just that like
sometimes people are so overwhelmed with things
that like they actually need the support before
they can take your advice. Yeah. Right. Like
I think like practically like, you know, if we
think back to like in terms of grief and like
things like that, like sometimes people don't
need you to like be like, oh, yes, this. is how
to make it better they need you to feed them
right or they need you to just like make sure
that the kids are taken care of or like whatever
the situation is yeah like that practical support
enables them to be able to like listen to whatever
comes next but if they're so overwhelmed with
all of the like practical bits and details then
like your advice is just It's going to fall on
deaf ears. Yeah. If someone's being crushed,
the goal is not to say, oh, just lift better.
Use your back. Help get them out first and then
we can work on that later. Don't worry. Bend
your knees. It'll be fine. You got this. Put
some elbow grease in. Here, let me help you.
You know. Yeah. Just bad form. Yeah. Yes. Yeah,
for sure. Yeah. Anything else you'd sort of add
to that? If you think about like advice and practical
support and how they work together. I think it
works together as well because it's, if you actually
go and support someone or try to support someone,
hopefully they'll return that to, when you need
it, you know? Like, I think it's just like, you
know, if you're going through a dark period,
do you need advice or do you need people around
you? Right. You know? And especially because,
again, sometimes the advice is it's like, well,
yeah, of course, you know, you know, or it's
like obvious. This is obvious. I know this, but
that doesn't help me. You know, do better is
great, but that's not really actionable. Yes.
You know, I think it's like even I mean, I haven't
read it, but like I think like like when C .S.
Lewis, I think when it was his wife that passed
and people were trying to be comforting to him
and, you know, and it was all like. it fell on
deaf ears because it's just it's like you know
oh you'll see her again yeah i know that you
know oh you know oh she's in a better place yeah
i hope so but you know i mean it's like that
doesn't help me pay the bills it doesn't help
me get through like yeah the next couple of times
you know yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah and
i think that sense of mutuality and like i help
you you help me and like that's not obviously
why we're in it exactly but it like is a benefit
of it for sure right that like yeah it builds
this safe space where people can begin to be
real with each other and that then when you bring
your realness and you're like, this is not great
guys. And like people can jump in and help you
with that. And I think that inspires us to then
go and help other people. Right. That we, we
see that support and that love and we learn what
works and what doesn't work so that we can better
care for others as well. Absolutely. Yeah. The
one thing that comes to mind is, uh, I think
it's scam artists in France are really good at
this, but there's the trick of reciprocity where
if I give you something, you feel the need. to
give me something in return. Okay. And it's the
thing, we don't need to actually give back, but
the goal is by helping others. we're able to
support each other and we want to help out yeah
it's not a requirement it's not something you're
like mandated to do but it's something we are
able to do and want to go out our way to help
out yeah you do it for the good of christ yeah
yeah absolutely yeah so i also want to go back
to that like those the three chords right so
two are better than one but christ is sort of
what holds us all together um so what do you
think it looks like to actually allow christ
to hold us together as community I think it's
when we come together, it's coming together in
a sense under Christ. Partially it's just coming
together. If it's for advice, say it's like,
I've had a hard week. I can give advice on my
own and be like, oh yeah, eat more fruits and
veggies. That'll probably help. Sure. But being
able to also back that up with like God's word
is really, really helpful. Sure. Being able to
point back to the scriptures and say, hey, this
is what God says. We can try to implement that
and hold each other accountable. Right. That's,
I think, an extra strand that really ties together.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. How
does Christ help hold us together in community?
I think it helps us because it reminds us we
always got to remember what would Christ do?
How would he be? If our goal is to be Christ
-like, then we need to think about it in all
circumstances. Sure. Yeah. I always think it's
like, you know, you know, when I when I do my
prayers, you know, I'll say either I'll either
say help me to be Christ like, you know, in everything.
Yes, it's that, you know, because you're trying
to be transformed by Christ. Yeah. You know,
absolutely. And like there's a song that goes
like. Be less like be more like Jesus and like
less like me. And that's what we need to ultimately
do. Even when it comes to when people are struggling
or suffering. The only thing is the only thing
is sometimes it's I feel like then there's sometimes
there is doubt with the fact that I felt it before
where it's like, I'll help out people, but I
don't trust that people will. reciprocate when
i'm sure yeah i'll be the one to help out but
i may not actually reach out because i don't
feel like there is going to be any sure anybody
to reach out yeah and i think in those moments
it's that remembering that um like christ was
what compelled us to reach out and to support
to like support other people and that christ
is with us even if nobody else is absolutely
right um yeah yeah and i think sometimes too
like we just need to get over ourselves right
like like suck up our pride and be like no actually
i need help in this absolutely right god said
it is not good for me to be alone so like i need
to risk opening up risk vulnerability so that
other people can support me and trust that there
are people who love and want to support me they
just like I need to tell them that I need that.
Yeah. And God can send good people to help you,
even if it's not somebody in your family or in
your church. It doesn't matter how God gets the
message. He's pretty good at sending it. Exactly.
And it's not always through dreams and visions
and everything like that. Sometimes it's a literal
sign. Sure. And sometimes it's just some people
are compelled by the Holy Spirit like, It seems
like I felt like you're struggling. You want
to talk, you know? Yeah. Just little interactions
make a big difference sometimes. Doesn't have
to be a literal sign or big side. It's sometimes
just someone saying, hey, how are you doing?
Yeah. For sure. Or sometimes you're listening
to K -Love in your car and something like that.
And you're just like, and that song comes on
and you're just like, okay, this is actually
what I needed to hear right now. You know, that's
God's way of. of sending something to you yeah
and i think sometimes because we're all human
like christian community is still messy oh yeah
right like as you sort of said before we're not
always going to see eye to eye on everything
um and people aren't perfect they're not going
to offer great advice all the time they're not
actually going to be super helpful all of the
time but i think when i think about the like
three chords or the three strands of the chord
um i think about that like christ is the center
of all these things and so regardless of what
we agree or don't agree on regardless of how
people have hurt me or not or how i have hurt
other people or not christ holds us together
and offers us like grace in the midst of all
of that right that that we can always come back
to that center as as a place where we are united
yeah um Even when everything else feels really
messy. He's always that core. Even if our ropes
start to fray a little bit, he's always the core
holding us together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I,
I, yeah, I just think that's so important as
we think about what it means to lean on each
other because people will disappoint us and that
will be really hard. That's human. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But. jesus is there in that and that
doesn't make the disappointment just magically
go away it doesn't make like if someone's intentionally
hurting in a community like that's not still
not okay right it's still harm um but knowing
that christ is in there with us i think makes
it bearable absolutely yeah i think we sometimes
just have to remember that You're right. Like
we do have to take the risk because it is a risk
opening up. Absolutely. You know, even if it's
not asking for help, but even just talking about
your feelings is risking it because we've all
had people where we've tried that and they're
negative. They shut it down. They dismiss it.
They joke. They they tell you something that
just sounds horrible. You know, and then that
and then that's a danger because then. You close
yourself up and then you're not trusting. And
then in the darkest situation, that's when people
turn to suicide because they, you know, they
think, oh, well, nobody gets it. Well, why? Because
you tried opening it up and that person didn't
get it. Right. And got shut down. Exactly. Yeah.
It's very handy that God at least always understands.
Yeah. Try to talk to someone we're afraid. Oh,
what if they don't understand me? What if they
don't get it? Yeah. God always does, which is
very handy. Yeah. Always. turn back to him. And
then the nice thing that I always like is why
is him being just there so important? Always
having someone there. It's going through things
hard, difficult things with people helps you
bear that burden. It stretches out, which is
where us humans made in God's image are also
good at helping bear those burdens together,
help to spread the load. Yeah. Yeah. So I think
it's like sort of like twofold reminder, right?
That like for those who are going through hard
times that like, God is there with you. God is
in the deepest, darkest pit that you could be
in. God is there. Um, and that for, for all of
us, that reminder that therefore we who are followers
of Jesus are called to imitate God. We are called
to be with people in the deepest, darkest pit,
not always to try and fix it, not to just offer
advice, but to be present and to be a support
and a friend and just a presence in the midst
of that. And I think when you're going through
stuff and it's challenging or rough, you just
got to remember to say, you know, God, I trust
in your ways. I trust in what's happening. I
trust that you know what's best. Because sometimes
we think we know what's best for ourselves and
then it doesn't happen. But it's like, you know,
like even when it comes to prayers, sometimes
it's like. We may be praying for stuff, but God's
like, yeah, that's not happening. That's not
for you. But, you know, so we just got to trust
that, you know, things will happen when they're
happen as they're supposed to happen. Yeah. Yeah.
I like to think about the hand that we're dealt.
A lot of times people say if you're going through
a hard time, you just dealt a bad hand. Yeah.
But one thing I like in card games is you get
to draw more cards. Right. Starting with a bad
hand, you get to play it as best as you can.
But that's not the end of the story. keep playing
keep drawing you never know what's going to come
up yeah you don't have to stay a victim yeah
there's there might be light at the end of the
tunnel yeah for sure for sure yeah and that's
where support helps you get there yeah for sure
for sure like i always like to say with stuff
like that is like when you're going through a
rough time it's like okay so what are you going
to do about it how are you going to get through
it yeah you know yeah you don't have to stay
oh poor me poor me you know So yeah, there's
like advice. I feel like it helps you learn how
to play those cards better and helps you answer
some of those questions. Yeah. But support helps
you keep playing to get those better cards. Yeah,
for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you
so much, guys. Yeah, I know community is hard.
People are messy. But I trust that God is in
all of it. God is showing up and God is bringing
together all of these messy, diverse people to
be a place where people can experience light
and love. Even in the deepest, darkest pits.
Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you for tuning in
to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I pray
wherever you find yourself in whatever sort of
situations, I pray that you're not there alone.
And if you are feeling alone right now, I just
want to encourage you find somebody to reach
out to risk vulnerability, risk trust so that
you can experience the warmth, the support, the
reward of being part of a community. that loves
and serves like Christ. We'll see you again next
week.