WEBVTT 00:00:03.119 --> 00:00:05.599 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:08.960 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am joined 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.359 here by three folks from Trinity's congregation 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:13.980 and today we're going to dive into a topic that 00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:16.920 is really important but I think also really challenging 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:20.120 for folks to talk about and that is around grief 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:23.859 and loss. You know when those really hard things 00:00:23.859 --> 00:00:25.859 happen in our life. When someone that we love 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:28.640 passes away or when we enter into a new stage 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:31.920 of life or when, you know, our health changes, 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:34.119 whatever it is, there's all kinds of hard things 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:36.439 that people are dealing with and often a sense 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:39.679 of loss and grief that comes with that. But these 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:43.020 folks all know what that experience is like and 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:45.520 have had the pleasure of sort of walking with 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:47.640 other people through that. So I'm excited to 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.450 sort of. dive into this conversation and figure 00:00:50.450 --> 00:00:53.590 out how do we support one another in the midst 00:00:53.590 --> 00:00:55.770 of those really challenging moments. So thank 00:00:55.770 --> 00:00:58.270 you all for joining me. You're welcome. Yeah, 00:00:58.789 --> 00:01:01.450 so maybe we'll get started, do a little bit of 00:01:01.450 --> 00:01:03.509 introductions. You can just say your name and 00:01:03.509 --> 00:01:06.090 maybe a little bit about sort of what your experience 00:01:06.090 --> 00:01:08.969 with grief or with working with others who are 00:01:08.969 --> 00:01:10.750 grieving has sort of been like. So we'll start 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:14.500 over here. Okay. Hi, I'm Ruth Bleinek. I've been 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:17.500 part of Trinity for probably about 15 years in 00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:21.180 total. Professionally, I was a nurse for many, 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:26.400 many years. Gray hair shows it. Everything from 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.980 critical care to mission hospitals, home care, 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.040 but finally with hospice care. Okay. Personally, 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.319 I've had several losses of family through death. 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.000 Parents decades ago. Sure. A brother, a nephew, 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.709 but most impactful. My husband, three and a half 00:01:44.709 --> 00:01:47.250 years ago. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. 00:01:47.489 --> 00:01:50.950 Sorry for your loss. Thank you. Yeah. Do you 00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:53.290 want to introduce yourself here? Sure. My name 00:01:53.290 --> 00:01:59.290 is Melissa. And eight years ago, June 5th, 2018, 00:01:59.590 --> 00:02:03.549 I lost my 19 -year -old son, Alex. Okay. It was 00:02:03.549 --> 00:02:06.129 a sudden death. It was not an illness. It was 00:02:06.129 --> 00:02:11.419 just a freak accident. He was in a coma for three 00:02:11.419 --> 00:02:15.699 days and then he did pass away, unfortunately. 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:21.219 And, you know, it's taught me how normal death 00:02:21.219 --> 00:02:26.120 is, unfortunately. Sure. It's not a club I want 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.659 to join, but since I'm here, I don't have a choice. 00:02:29.900 --> 00:02:31.819 Because people say, I don't understand how you 00:02:31.819 --> 00:02:35.319 do it. And it's like, well, the choice wasn't 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.129 there. Right. Yeah. But yeah. The cards you were 00:02:39.129 --> 00:02:43.009 dealt. Yes. So, but I've met some amazing people 00:02:43.009 --> 00:02:45.030 through it. I have to say one positive thing. 00:02:45.069 --> 00:02:48.509 I've met some awesome people and got to be part 00:02:48.509 --> 00:02:51.629 of some awesome things and help people like yourself. 00:02:52.699 --> 00:02:54.900 Share the message that people aren't alone. Yeah, 00:02:54.979 --> 00:02:58.240 yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And then over 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.560 here. I'm Charles Ansell. I've been at Trinity 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.259 34 years. Okay. So I'm just part of the fixture 00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:11.699 and furniture. Of those 34 years, 25 have been 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:14.620 in the caring ministry. Yeah. For the first 10 00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:17.620 years, I led the prayer and healing ministry 00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:21.990 with Gwen Eck. And then the last 15 years, I've 00:03:21.990 --> 00:03:25.650 been a Stephen minister and a Stephen leader. 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:33.129 So I've had experience working alongside people 00:03:33.129 --> 00:03:36.569 who were going through grief and hearing their 00:03:36.569 --> 00:03:40.969 stories. sharing their pain yeah yeah yeah yeah 00:03:40.969 --> 00:03:42.789 and so for folks who aren't familiar stephen 00:03:42.789 --> 00:03:45.349 ministers or folks who accompany those who are 00:03:45.349 --> 00:03:47.969 dealing with some sort of stress in their life 00:03:47.969 --> 00:03:51.189 or some difficult challenges and often that involves 00:03:51.189 --> 00:03:54.270 grief and loss not always but that's correct 00:03:54.270 --> 00:03:56.569 yeah yeah i'll be giving a plug for them later 00:03:56.569 --> 00:03:59.810 okay you know what and same because i did when 00:03:59.810 --> 00:04:03.469 i first joined trinity i joined stephen ministries 00:04:03.469 --> 00:04:07.659 and a very lovely lady walked with me And actually 00:04:07.659 --> 00:04:09.939 her and I just spoke the other day. She remembered 00:04:09.939 --> 00:04:12.500 my daughter. She checked in. It was a beautiful 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:15.419 experience and I really liked her. Yeah. Yeah. 00:04:15.460 --> 00:04:17.980 So I say it's a great thing because we not only 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:20.800 talked about my son, we talked about my youngest 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.079 child who's the one turning 18 about, you know. 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.920 her being a teenager and her getting ready to 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.079 leave. So it was a great experience. So yeah, 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.220 I'll help them plug. That's awesome. Awesome. 00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:34.920 Yeah. Okay. So maybe to sort of start us off, 00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:38.100 what's one thing that you wish more folks sort 00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:41.120 of understood about grief or maybe, you know, 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.600 a misunderstanding that you've sort of encountered? 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:46.439 Yeah. Do you want to start us off again, Ruth? 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:51.220 Sure. I would say the one thing is that grief, 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.779 whether it be a loss through death or a less 00:04:54.779 --> 00:04:57.980 recognized one, something like miscarriage or 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:02.259 infertility or, as you said, your empty nest, 00:05:02.579 --> 00:05:08.459 each grief is unique. And in hospice world, we 00:05:08.459 --> 00:05:11.160 use the term for someone with a life -limiting 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.939 illness of individual. not patient or client, 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:19.600 to designate that each grief is an individual 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.319 process for not just the person who is dying, 00:05:23.459 --> 00:05:26.819 although we say living life to the fullest until 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:30.829 your death. But also the family and loved ones 00:05:30.829 --> 00:05:34.509 nearby. So it's an individual process. Yeah. 00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:38.350 One story isn't the same as another. One size 00:05:38.350 --> 00:05:41.250 does not fit all. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. 00:05:41.550 --> 00:05:43.810 Anything you would want to sort of add to that? 00:05:44.709 --> 00:05:48.129 Things people understood. Things I had to understand. 00:05:48.310 --> 00:05:51.110 Death is normal. And I did not get a choice. 00:05:51.430 --> 00:05:55.089 And, but the one other thing is I'm still Melissa. 00:05:55.149 --> 00:05:57.670 Some people treat me like I'm about to burst 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:01.329 into flames. Or if I talk about Alex, it's like, 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:03.810 oh my gosh, she's going to be okay. And it's 00:06:03.810 --> 00:06:05.449 like, yeah, like people have to understand he 00:06:05.449 --> 00:06:09.550 was still my son. I still have three kids and 00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:13.689 people will look at me and be like, I don't know 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:16.410 how you, well, do you think I was like this the 00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:19.550 first day? Right. Sure. This is eight years later. 00:06:19.649 --> 00:06:24.250 Yeah. And people often don't think that they 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:26.350 just think, oh, my gosh, because they're first 00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:28.970 hearing about it. Sure. You know what? I've often 00:06:28.970 --> 00:06:31.670 liken it to when you get pregnant and you get 00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:33.209 used to it. You're like, OK, now I'm pregnant. 00:06:33.350 --> 00:06:35.170 But then you have to tell your significant other 00:06:35.170 --> 00:06:38.689 and he's freaking out. That's how I think, because 00:06:38.689 --> 00:06:40.949 you're you get used to it, but you're hearing 00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:44.660 it for the first time. Right. So people have 00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:46.540 to understand that you're hearing it for the 00:06:46.540 --> 00:06:48.639 first time. Right. Right. It's not, it's not 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:52.079 news to you. Yes. It's I'm not, I'm going to 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.560 be okay. If you say, Hey, how are you? Yeah. 00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:56.180 Are you, are you good? Are you having a good 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:58.699 day? I'm not going to, you know, melt or burst 00:06:58.699 --> 00:07:03.060 into flames or go crazy. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:06.120 okay to bring that up. It's okay to talk. To 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.759 still treat me like I am Melissa. Yeah. Cause 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:14.120 I am. Yeah. Because. child loss is not my personality. 00:07:14.459 --> 00:07:17.300 I'm Melissa first. And people don't really see 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:19.819 that often. Yeah, no, that's totally fair. Yeah, 00:07:19.980 --> 00:07:23.860 Naomi makes a great point. In our North American 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:27.600 culture, we're uncomfortable with grief, with 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.480 death, anything around it. And yes, we treat 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.899 people who are going through that, oh, you know. 00:07:33.339 --> 00:07:35.860 We've got to be very careful with them and what 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:38.500 have you. Yes, you have to be sensitive. You 00:07:38.500 --> 00:07:41.259 have to be caring. But they're still a human 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:46.420 being. They want support. They want care. And, 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:51.300 yeah, they want to know that they're heard. You've 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:54.620 got to listen to where they're at. And, yeah, 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:58.480 it's quite normal to talk about the person they've 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:03.930 lost. I lost both of my parents. I never got 00:08:03.930 --> 00:08:06.110 to their funerals. My father died in England 00:08:06.110 --> 00:08:08.730 while I was here in Canada, and my mom in New 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:12.269 Zealand. Okay. Now, for my mother, we had a celebration 00:08:12.269 --> 00:08:15.050 of life here in Canada because she'd been here 00:08:15.050 --> 00:08:19.069 a few times and some people knew her. Sure. And 00:08:19.069 --> 00:08:23.449 I found it very comforting talking to people 00:08:23.449 --> 00:08:25.870 because they had memories of my mother. Sure. 00:08:26.110 --> 00:08:30.009 And, you know, yes, it's still painful. Yeah. 00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:34.429 It's still a huge loss. But I just found some 00:08:34.429 --> 00:08:37.809 comfort talking about the one I'd lost. Yeah. 00:08:37.809 --> 00:08:40.549 You know, yeah, we've got to get over that, but 00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:43.169 we've got to be sensitive. And, you know, there's 00:08:43.169 --> 00:08:45.210 a right time and there's wrong time. So you've 00:08:45.210 --> 00:08:48.750 got to listen and then, you know, respond to 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:54.289 the person, you know, the bereaved person. Wonderful. 00:08:54.370 --> 00:08:58.190 On this point, loss, you know, yes, we think 00:08:58.190 --> 00:09:04.029 of. you know, the loss of a loved one. But there's 00:09:04.029 --> 00:09:07.330 many other sorts of loss that equally, you know, 00:09:07.330 --> 00:09:13.710 it may not be as life changing, but job loss, 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:17.190 for example, you know, miscarriage, divorce, 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:23.690 life threatening illnesses, or spiritual crisis, 00:09:23.769 --> 00:09:26.490 even, you know, or depression. I mean, these 00:09:26.490 --> 00:09:30.669 are all people are grieving a loss of their normality 00:09:30.669 --> 00:09:35.990 yeah and i think a shift in their identity often 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:38.750 as well i think is a really big piece of it right 00:09:38.750 --> 00:09:41.690 like when it's yeah whether it is the loss of 00:09:41.690 --> 00:09:45.110 a child the loss of a parent the loss of a job 00:09:45.110 --> 00:09:49.319 the loss of a spouse like whatever it is if It 00:09:49.319 --> 00:09:52.080 changes how you think of yourself, I think, right? 00:09:52.179 --> 00:09:55.679 Yes. Like, I've been a mother for almost 30 years. 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.279 Yeah. And now that my baby's leaving, I'm like, 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:00.919 I don't know what to do. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:02.659 Because my life is changing. Not that I won't 00:10:02.659 --> 00:10:04.379 be a mother still, but it's not going to be in 00:10:04.379 --> 00:10:06.460 the same way as when you've got minors. Yeah. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.639 You know, in the house. Yeah. You know, she wants 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.240 to go away to university. I support her. Yeah. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:13.100 But I'm still going to be alone. Yeah. It's still 00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:15.080 going to change my life. For sure. For sure. 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:19.679 So. Yeah. Yeah. So on that note, like what would 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.019 you say are some of the most challenging aspects 00:10:22.019 --> 00:10:25.559 of dealing with grief? Some of those maybe unexpected 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:29.659 pieces. Missing him. Yeah. The missing. Yeah. 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:33.360 You have no idea what I miss you means until 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.919 you have to miss someone. Yeah. You have no idea. 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:40.279 Yeah. And I hold to that because I didn't. I 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:41.720 thought this was something that happened to people 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:46.210 on TV. Sure. Not to me. And I didn't know. And 00:10:46.210 --> 00:10:48.909 it's not just missing him, it's missing, he could 00:10:48.909 --> 00:10:51.230 have had kids. He would have been 27. Yeah. So 00:10:51.230 --> 00:10:52.990 he could have had children. Right. He could have 00:10:52.990 --> 00:10:56.250 got married at 27, graduated university. Sure. 00:10:56.429 --> 00:10:58.990 I could have been a grandma. Yeah. Yeah. So I 00:10:58.990 --> 00:11:00.929 grieve those things. Recently, one of his friends 00:11:00.929 --> 00:11:05.169 got married. I cried at that. Sure. You know, 00:11:05.230 --> 00:11:08.169 so things he could have done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:11:08.230 --> 00:11:10.889 yeah. For sure. For sure. So that's the, I think 00:11:10.889 --> 00:11:12.669 that's the biggest for me. I don't know about 00:11:12.669 --> 00:11:17.700 others. Yeah. I would say that, you know, Kubler 00:11:17.700 --> 00:11:20.639 -Loss says there's five stages of grief and others 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.559 have said seven. Sure. And so it's remembering 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.500 that grief is not a linear process. Yes. You 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:32.500 don't go from denial to anger, jump to acceptance 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:37.480 and away you go. That would be great. It's two 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:40.059 steps forward and one step back or sometimes 00:11:40.059 --> 00:11:44.220 three steps back. Yes. Sure. Absolutely. accepting 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:47.220 that that's going to be the process. The other 00:11:47.220 --> 00:11:50.500 thing I would say is that there's a lot of emphasis 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:53.279 put on that first year after the loss through 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:59.759 death. And in my case, now that I'm a widow, 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:06.360 and that's a new identity. Yes, for sure. I don't 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:10.379 have any family within hours from here. So everything 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:16.289 was on me to do financial, Practical. Yeah. And 00:12:16.289 --> 00:12:19.590 so there's all of that to do the first year. 00:12:19.769 --> 00:12:23.269 Yeah. And then after the first year, the adrenaline 00:12:23.269 --> 00:12:29.009 goes down, the reality hits. Yep. And your group 00:12:29.009 --> 00:12:33.190 of support is diminished. Yes. Because they've 00:12:33.190 --> 00:12:37.269 moved on. Yeah. Yep. And you're still, you're 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:40.470 moving forward. Sure. But you never move on because 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:43.159 that person is always with you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:46.620 yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the hardest 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:51.740 things. Yeah. You've got to be patient with people 00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:54.340 who are grieving, okay? Because, you know, there's 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:56.960 something called grief brain. Okay. Because, 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:59.710 you know, they're focusing. focusing so much 00:12:59.710 --> 00:13:02.169 on their loss and the pain they're not sleeping 00:13:02.169 --> 00:13:05.710 well there are physical symptoms they have but 00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:08.750 also they're very forgetful they have difficulty 00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:12.309 even doing routine sure household things you 00:13:12.309 --> 00:13:14.669 know it means certainly they'll forget to pay 00:13:14.669 --> 00:13:17.450 bills and things like that i had to be reminded 00:13:17.450 --> 00:13:19.870 to eat sometimes yeah yeah yeah that's right 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:24.759 so you know if you're there trying to support 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:27.279 someone like that. You've got to be aware of 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.179 that. Don't underestimate, you know, the importance 00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:34.580 of practical help. Sure. Just mundane things, 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.639 you know, the household chores, outside chores, 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.320 child care, transportation. Technical. Oh, tech 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.639 support. Yes. Technical. Charles is my... I appreciated 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.000 all the food being dropped off. That was awesome. 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:50.980 My neighbors really helped out. Yeah. Yeah. I 00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:52.879 live in a great neighborhood, too. Yeah. Yeah. 00:13:56.009 --> 00:13:58.649 I've got to get my bugaboo out of the way. Sure. 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:03.830 You've got to listen to the person. And, you 00:14:03.830 --> 00:14:06.669 know, when we engage, you know, someone like 00:14:06.669 --> 00:14:10.730 Naomi, right, who has lost her son, what do you 00:14:10.730 --> 00:14:14.250 say? You feel you've got to say something. And 00:14:14.250 --> 00:14:18.690 what you end up doing, you know, is saying platitudes 00:14:18.690 --> 00:14:22.090 and cliches. Yeah. Which you think are helpful, 00:14:22.269 --> 00:14:26.450 but they're not. In fact, they're hurtful, you 00:14:26.450 --> 00:14:27.789 know, because they're showing, you know, you're 00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:30.409 not listening. You don't understand. You can't 00:14:30.409 --> 00:14:33.029 make assumptions like that. So, you know, you 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:36.950 don't say, oh, how are you doing? A person going 00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:40.149 through grief, they don't know how they're doing. 00:14:40.549 --> 00:14:42.470 Sure. How do you think I'm doing? I'm falling 00:14:42.470 --> 00:14:45.750 apart, you know? Yeah. So it's a silly question. 00:14:46.009 --> 00:14:49.129 But, you know, you can say, look. I am sorry 00:14:49.129 --> 00:14:51.529 that you're going through this. I'm sorry for 00:14:51.529 --> 00:14:55.350 your loss. Tell me, what's going on in your life 00:14:55.350 --> 00:14:58.129 at the moment? Sure. I'm sorry for your loss 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:01.190 is often enough. I'm sorry for your loss. Yeah. 00:15:01.629 --> 00:15:06.789 Yeah, so just the platitudes to avoid. Come on. 00:15:06.789 --> 00:15:10.889 I know how you feel. No, you don't. Yeah, that 00:15:10.889 --> 00:15:14.389 one, my goodness, if you really knew. Yeah. Oh, 00:15:14.429 --> 00:15:17.600 it's for the best. They're in a better place. 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.820 God needed a flower for his garden. I heard that 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.799 one. God needed an angel or a flower for his 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:27.960 garden. Yep. It's God's will. God doesn't give 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.019 you more than you can handle. Or time heals all 00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:34.240 wounds. Right. They sort of sound good. They're 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.480 not helpful. No. Okay. So just say you're sorry 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:42.250 and listen. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. 00:15:42.309 --> 00:15:45.470 So thinking about that and like, you know, these 00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:51.809 are the unhelpful things to say. And some of 00:15:51.809 --> 00:15:53.990 the things around faith specifically. Right. 00:15:54.029 --> 00:15:58.980 Yeah. I think in a Christian context, we. should 00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:01.200 know how to deal with grief well but i think 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.419 we don't always um but are there ways that you 00:16:04.419 --> 00:16:09.620 think your faith has been impacted by your own 00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:12.019 sort of grief and loss or by working through 00:16:12.019 --> 00:16:14.960 that with other people i stopped believing in 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.639 god completely sure i lost my faith i i had no 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.960 i begged uh in the church at the hospital yeah 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:30.299 and i got told no And I was just, my son fell 00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:33.960 eight feet and hit his head and died. Eight feet? 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.179 He should have just broke his leg. Like, sure. 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:41.419 You know, but I said, okay, God, me and you are 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:44.159 finished. Sure. I was done. Yeah. I was done. 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:48.799 Yeah. And then in 2023, well, okay, no, a little 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:50.399 bit before that, I went through some things and 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:55.320 my son had a Bible. And I found it on May 27th. 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.639 And in the Bible, another pastor from another 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:04.180 church had written May 27th to Alexander. And 00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:07.019 I'm like, okay, yeah, I hear you. So I took his 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.700 Bible and that's what started my journey again. 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:13.180 And then I got here and it was Rob who said, 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.180 God doesn't stop cancer or child loss. That's 00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:17.779 what started my journey at Trinity. I'm like, 00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.819 finally, finally. Somebody says it. Somebody 00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:24.819 of faith said it. It's God doesn't stop that. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.920 It's going to happen. And Rob kept it real. So 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.279 I've always been grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:35.720 yeah. I think what I was going to say really 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.539 fits with that because the Old Testament theologian 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:41.920 Walter Brueggemann, and my husband would be thrilled 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:47.059 I put a plug in for a theologian, compares the 00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:51.640 Christian faith to... The Psalms of Lament, where 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:55.779 there's orientation, then disorientation, and 00:17:55.779 --> 00:18:00.720 then a reorientation. And I would say that has 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:05.099 been my experience too. I didn't lose my faith, 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:09.180 but there was... when all I could say was help. 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:15.559 Like Annie Lamont says, help, thanks, wow. And 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:21.519 so I would say that my faith is deeper. And I 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.339 come back to that old hymn, in the valley he 00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:28.549 restores my soul. Sure. And that's been my experience. 00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:31.890 You were nodding, Charles. Were you going to 00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:35.490 quote Bergerman too? No, no, no, no. I'm not 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:40.750 at that level. But yeah, I mean, in the early 00:18:40.750 --> 00:18:44.670 stages of loss, the why question dominates. Why? 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:47.670 Why is this happening? Why is this happening 00:18:47.670 --> 00:18:51.329 to me? You know, Naomi, you fell eight feet. 00:18:51.710 --> 00:18:57.529 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, his son fell eight 00:18:57.529 --> 00:19:00.289 feet. He could have just broken a limb, as you 00:19:00.289 --> 00:19:03.869 say. It could have ended so differently. You 00:19:03.869 --> 00:19:06.529 go through all the what -ifs, and it just eats 00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:09.630 away at you, and it eats away at your beliefs 00:19:09.630 --> 00:19:12.829 and what have you. It can be very difficult. 00:19:14.049 --> 00:19:17.710 What I've seen is God meeting people where they 00:19:17.710 --> 00:19:24.109 are, in their pain, in their anger, in their 00:19:24.109 --> 00:19:27.349 just... Absolute helplessness. Yes. You know, 00:19:27.369 --> 00:19:34.950 I've seen God be present for them and in many 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:39.009 other expected ways. And I've come to see as 00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:44.569 people go through their journey of loss and whatever, 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:49.730 they come to see that, oh, yes, you know, I had 00:19:49.730 --> 00:19:54.250 some of the footprints. You know, the pouring 00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:58.130 footprints. Yes. There's only one set of tracks 00:19:58.130 --> 00:20:03.309 on the beach, you know. And those were the times 00:20:03.309 --> 00:20:06.490 when I was going through the most hurt. And we 00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:08.849 say, where were you, Jesus, during those periods 00:20:08.849 --> 00:20:15.390 of my life when I was hurting? And Jesus just 00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:20.150 says, those are the times I carried you. And, 00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:23.089 you know, once people realize that, they can 00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:26.470 come out at the other end stronger in their faith. 00:20:26.690 --> 00:20:29.769 Yes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's definitely 00:20:29.769 --> 00:20:32.190 true. I think it's also important to, like, take 00:20:32.190 --> 00:20:34.829 the long view in that. Yes. Right? Absolutely. 00:20:35.150 --> 00:20:37.329 Like, I appreciate, like, the honesty that both 00:20:37.329 --> 00:20:40.609 of you have had in sharing that, like, it gets 00:20:40.609 --> 00:20:43.690 better, but it gets real bad first. Oh, absolutely. 00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:49.119 Absolutely. I have to say God came to hell. and 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:50.819 met me there yeah because that's where i was 00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:54.779 yeah i i don't know how real i can keep it i 00:20:54.779 --> 00:20:58.640 almost ended my life yeah and jesus met me there 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.339 and i'm here yeah because of that right yeah 00:21:01.339 --> 00:21:05.519 you know and it was a real factor for a lot of 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.220 days i didn't handle it right sure because there's 00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:11.339 no like instruction manual just like when you 00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:13.059 have kids there's no instruction manual yeah 00:21:13.059 --> 00:21:19.779 so but it it But having good family, his funeral, 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:24.200 my sister's wife, Rachel, I have to give her 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:27.359 a shout out. She stepped in and planned Alex's 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.599 funeral. Yeah. And without being asked, without 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.859 it being a question, she just kind of stepped 00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:35.900 in. Yeah. Yeah. So I think those kind of things 00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:39.960 help keep me people around too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:42.599 for sure. That helps build you back up when you're 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.950 lost. Yeah. You know, God sends people to help. 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:49.869 Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, for sure. For 00:21:49.869 --> 00:21:52.809 sure. Yeah. And I think just that sense that 00:21:52.809 --> 00:21:56.609 like we can be, yeah, what feels like in the 00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:59.670 pits of hell, in the darkness, in that place 00:21:59.670 --> 00:22:03.009 where it feels like there is no hope and to know 00:22:03.009 --> 00:22:07.289 as like cliche as it sounds, that God is still 00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:10.839 there. Yes. And maybe I don't. Say that in those 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:12.900 words to you in that moment, because that may 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:15.599 or may not be helpful. But like to just know 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.980 as if I'm sort of supporting someone through 00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:22.640 loss and grief to know that I can pray for that 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.920 person, that God is there. God has that. He's 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.539 already been ahead of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:32.119 Because looking back now, I see I didn't even 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.940 plan Alex's funeral. It was Rachel. Yeah. And 00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:38.380 I don't even remember it. And I. Thank God today, 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.940 I didn't have to. I didn't have to. God sent 00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:45.440 someone to, because that's the first thing I 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.500 kind of remember that I had to live through. 00:22:48.099 --> 00:22:52.700 And she was God sent to deal with that. So it 00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:55.920 was beautiful. So thank you. Thank you for sharing. 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.140 This is a really important point. So if somebody 00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:03.039 in the podcast is listening and you're going 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:07.099 through grief or a period of loss, I really want 00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:10.900 you to know that you're not alone. You are not 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:15.519 alone. And that's so important to get your head 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.839 around that there is a God who cares and loves 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.559 you. And he is present whether you know it or 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.700 not. And also around you there are people who 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:31.039 do truly care and want to help. So don't shut 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:35.000 yourself off. Make yourself vulnerable and ask 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.829 for help. Yeah. It's going to help you. Yeah. 00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:40.309 And sometimes you don't even have the energy 00:23:40.309 --> 00:23:43.750 to ask. Yes. So that's when friends that are 00:23:43.750 --> 00:23:47.509 our family. Perceptive. Yes. And show up. Yeah. 00:23:47.630 --> 00:23:50.789 Show up. Yeah. My sister and Rachel live in BC. 00:23:50.869 --> 00:23:53.150 And when they came here, I was like, I got to 00:23:53.150 --> 00:23:56.269 be a kid sister, which was let my older sisters 00:23:56.269 --> 00:23:58.849 handle it all. And they did. Yeah. I was like, 00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:02.690 bye. And my younger sister as well, who's also 00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:06.970 there for me, Stephanie. if I can call her at 00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:09.009 any time she'd prefer I don't but I can sure 00:24:09.009 --> 00:24:14.009 yeah so my and my best friend you keep like you 00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:17.829 said your circle gets smaller so I have like 00:24:17.829 --> 00:24:20.970 Tasha, Rachel, Farah, Stephanie yes I have my 00:24:20.970 --> 00:24:25.109 parents and my brothers yeah but like you cherish 00:24:25.109 --> 00:24:27.789 that for sure of that for sure I don't know what 00:24:27.789 --> 00:24:31.190 I'd do without them yeah you know they're why 00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:34.480 I'm here yeah for sure for sure Are there other 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.740 things that you think have been helpful for you 00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:38.500 or for other people that you've seen as you sort 00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:40.559 of walk through grief? So this having this circle 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.799 of support. Yes, I'd like to say surviving children 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.400 has helped. Yeah. Surviving children. I know 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.640 Jennifer Neville Lake, if you know who that is. 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:53.900 She was the girl who's she was the woman whose 00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:56.019 children were killed by Marco Muzo, the drunk 00:24:56.019 --> 00:24:59.279 driver. Oh, yes. Her three children and her dad. 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:04.740 Yes. She, in my darkest hours, was someone I 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.880 looked to. She lost all three of her children. 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.819 So knowing I had surviving children helped me. 00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:16.039 I don't know about anybody else. What would you 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:18.720 add to that? The things that have been helpful. 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.539 Journaling. Reading both Christian and non -Christian 00:25:23.539 --> 00:25:26.400 authors. The Bible, particularly the Psalms. 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:32.680 Some counseling. And as you said, friends, you 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:35.440 find out who's going to be with you after the 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:39.740 funeral. Yes. And there's a small circle, includes 00:25:39.740 --> 00:25:42.960 Charles and Ruth, who have provided practical 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.720 and emotional support. Yes. Because with my family 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:51.960 so far away, not having parents, having one adult 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.920 son with special needs, I'm in a... Every situation 00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.740 is unique. I know that. But it's been wonderful 00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:01.839 to have friends. There's some extra bits to work 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:06.299 through. Complications. Yeah, for sure. And the 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:10.240 suddenness of my husband's death from an undiagnosed 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.539 medical condition. Right. He died at home in 00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:17.680 our bed. And so, you know, all of a sudden, you're 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.920 confronted with planning a funeral. Unfortunately, 00:26:21.019 --> 00:26:23.259 he was a pastor, and we had had enough deaths 00:26:23.259 --> 00:26:26.019 that I was somewhat of an expert, although Charles 00:26:26.019 --> 00:26:28.700 came through and helped me do the bulletins. 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:32.059 So those are the things that have been helpful. 00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:34.900 Having a good planner is one of the greatest 00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:37.539 things, I think. Someone who just steps in, okay, 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:39.980 here's what needs to be done. I like that part, 00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:43.900 too. Yeah, one thing that has helped me when 00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:49.799 I'm going through periods of loss or grief, um 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:55.539 is to force myself to think of one thing i've 00:26:55.539 --> 00:27:01.819 been thankful for this day okay it seems a simple 00:27:01.819 --> 00:27:04.779 thing sure but when you're in a dark place trust 00:27:04.779 --> 00:27:07.460 me that's not easy but if you can force yourself 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:10.980 to do that yeah you know gratitude it it opens 00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:14.490 up bright lights at the end of that tunnel for 00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:17.150 you you know so you you know you may not be there 00:27:17.150 --> 00:27:20.710 yet you're still in that dark place but you know 00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:24.210 where you're going and the other thing as christians 00:27:24.210 --> 00:27:27.369 is that we're people of the resurrection yeah 00:27:27.369 --> 00:27:30.430 we have this hope yeah now you know you're in 00:27:30.430 --> 00:27:33.670 a dark place and uh yeah you wonder where god 00:27:33.670 --> 00:27:38.529 is how could i be in this place yeah but there's 00:27:38.529 --> 00:27:43.089 still that glimmer of hope if you like that light 00:27:43.089 --> 00:27:46.170 at the end of the tunnel yeah so if we can just 00:27:46.170 --> 00:27:49.650 force ourselves to think of one thing yeah to 00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:52.450 be thankful for yeah makes a difference yeah 00:27:52.450 --> 00:27:56.390 it does absolutely being grateful thankful yeah 00:27:56.390 --> 00:27:59.690 yeah and i think like christianity is a faith 00:27:59.690 --> 00:28:05.410 of unreasonable hope yes right like that in those 00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:07.750 dark places where it feels like we don't know 00:28:07.750 --> 00:28:09.430 what's happening it feels like there's nothing 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:13.569 nothing to hold on to like yeah christianity 00:28:13.569 --> 00:28:17.269 says there's still light yes jesus is still there 00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:21.170 there's still something to find and like i know 00:28:21.170 --> 00:28:23.670 for myself when i'm in some of those dark moments 00:28:23.670 --> 00:28:27.279 it can feel really hard to find that light for 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:30.220 myself. But if there are people around me who 00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:32.819 can say, no, like this is the thing to be thankful 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:36.359 for today. Or like, no, like I'm with you in 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.940 this and no, I'm going to bring you to church. 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:40.900 I'm going to bring you to like, we're going to 00:28:40.900 --> 00:28:43.079 sit down and have coffee together. Like create 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.240 those spaces of life. Yes. Right. Being present. 00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:49.420 Yeah. It's such, such an important thing. Yes. 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:53.460 Yeah. Yeah. I, I like when I'm feeling a way 00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:57.410 and I can call my sister and she's like, really 00:28:57.410 --> 00:29:00.529 and i'm like okay it's silly okay great and she 00:29:00.529 --> 00:29:05.470 says things sometimes a little meaner but i need 00:29:05.470 --> 00:29:07.990 that because sometimes you're you know going 00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:11.500 off the rails and she's like she puts it back 00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:13.819 sure and she'll put it back with laughter with 00:29:13.819 --> 00:29:17.880 teasing yeah and yeah i'm like oh okay all right 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.980 so i am being a little you know yeah a little 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:26.420 extra as my kids would say yeah yeah so i'm grateful 00:29:26.420 --> 00:29:28.720 for that just and laughing yeah because she'll 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.819 be like and then say a joke yeah you know jokes 00:29:31.819 --> 00:29:36.039 i probably can't say on here sure whatever whatever 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:39.559 works but laughter sometimes is just It's awesome. 00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:43.980 Yeah. So for folks who are sort of listening 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.000 to this conversation right now, if they are dealing 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.619 with grief and loss, like what is sort of one 00:29:50.619 --> 00:29:52.819 thing that you might say to them, one thing that 00:29:52.819 --> 00:29:56.019 you might sort of offer them? I would say be 00:29:56.019 --> 00:29:59.859 kind to yourself. Practice self -care, whatever 00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:03.920 that looks like for you. Sure. And don't, you 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.819 know, leave the shoulda, coulda, wouldas. Yeah. 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:13.339 Because that's not helpful. Sure. Yeah. No. And 00:30:13.339 --> 00:30:18.559 as you said, Charles, be vulnerable. Allow people 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.700 in. There'll be bad days when you really don't 00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:24.420 want to. You want to just close the curtains, 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:27.299 turn out the lights, and turn into a fetal position. 00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:32.180 Yeah. But it's better to, if you can, reach out. 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:36.740 Yeah. And I would say. Be kind to yourself. Yeah, 00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:40.559 yes. And seek the supports that you need, whether 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:45.420 they're professional or personal. Yeah, yes. 00:30:45.579 --> 00:30:49.359 And practical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been really 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.700 grateful for the people here who have given me 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.059 the names of an accountant and of a lawyer and 00:30:56.059 --> 00:31:00.240 all of that. because mine were all retiring right 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:05.339 bless their hearts yeah yeah yeah yes yeah and 00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:07.859 i think that like being kind to yourself that 00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:09.640 like self -care sometimes like sounds a little 00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.240 cliche and sometimes i think we complicate it 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:14.819 we're like uh self -care means like a spa day 00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:17.460 or whatever but no sometimes self -care means 00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:20.579 ordering some uber eats and just like having 00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:23.279 a meal that you don't need to cook right like 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:26.809 it doesn't need to be I like to read, so I've 00:31:26.809 --> 00:31:29.930 gone to the library and got a whole pizza and 00:31:29.930 --> 00:31:33.289 called it a day. There you go. I think counseling 00:31:33.289 --> 00:31:35.829 is important. People love you and care about 00:31:35.829 --> 00:31:38.930 you, but I don't know how this is going to sound. 00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:43.450 It might sound mean. You cannot lean on everyone 00:31:43.450 --> 00:31:47.470 all the time. Sure. If you have access to benefits. 00:31:48.029 --> 00:31:51.029 use them and I use mine for everything I get 00:31:51.029 --> 00:31:54.029 a massage when I need it I get counseling when 00:31:54.029 --> 00:31:59.869 I need it I think chiropractor I have never taken 00:31:59.869 --> 00:32:03.269 advantage of my benefits like since I lost Alex 00:32:03.269 --> 00:32:06.750 and people and I don't want people to think oh 00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:09.849 no I can't share my story but there's something 00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:12.500 to be said for a professional sure someone who 00:32:12.500 --> 00:32:17.180 does not know alex so is or your loved one and 00:32:17.180 --> 00:32:20.660 doesn't isn't gonna fall into the trenches with 00:32:20.660 --> 00:32:23.859 you sure they're there to take you out i know 00:32:23.859 --> 00:32:26.079 my sisters and then love and them love me but 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:29.380 they know alex yeah so i make space for their 00:32:29.380 --> 00:32:32.359 grief too sure yeah so i i enjoy professional 00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.200 and i know not all people have access to sure 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:37.200 sure but there are a lot of free services like 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.799 heart house hospice steven ministries that you 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:42.660 can take advantage of and i really think it was 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.640 nice with steven ministries she didn't know al 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.279 she didn't know me She was just there as a neutral 00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.519 party. And that's what you need sometimes. Yeah, 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:56.119 for sure. Yeah, I just want to build on Ruth's 00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.700 point because it's so important. You know, go 00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:01.880 easy on yourself. You may be having a bad day. 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.599 Okay, you know, write this one off. Just, you 00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:09.160 know, whatever you need. If you need to curl 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.119 up on the couch, if you need to just binge some 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:17.279 TV or whatever. look do it okay tomorrow may 00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.259 be a better day and as you go along the number 00:33:21.259 --> 00:33:24.079 of good days begin to outnumber the bad days 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.299 yes you know and you you begin to heal and move 00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:30.339 and be able to function again sure but if you're 00:33:30.339 --> 00:33:34.329 in that space don't you know, overly fight it. 00:33:34.490 --> 00:33:36.509 Sometimes it's good to just give in and just 00:33:36.509 --> 00:33:39.450 say, I need to rest. I need to get just the sleep 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:43.210 today. Sure. Yes. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 00:33:43.210 --> 00:33:45.450 like a wave. It's going to crash anyways. Yeah. 00:33:45.549 --> 00:33:47.589 Yeah. Um, and do you want to share a little bit 00:33:47.589 --> 00:33:49.430 more about Stephen ministry and how that works? 00:33:49.470 --> 00:33:54.349 All right. Yes. Well, here at Trinity, we, we, 00:33:54.349 --> 00:33:59.829 we've always had caring ministries and, um, So 00:33:59.829 --> 00:34:04.109 we have Stephen Ministry. So these are trained 00:34:04.109 --> 00:34:08.389 members of Trinity who are there to just walk 00:34:08.389 --> 00:34:11.829 alongside you to provide one -on -one Christian 00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:15.829 care in a completely confidential manner. So, 00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:20.210 you know, yeah, if you need someone, as you said, 00:34:20.250 --> 00:34:23.130 a neutral party in your life, who's not family, 00:34:23.329 --> 00:34:25.590 there's no baggage or whatever, someone who's 00:34:25.590 --> 00:34:28.289 just there to listen. and to support you and 00:34:28.289 --> 00:34:31.730 to care and be consistent, a Stephen Minister 00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:35.630 might be able to help you. We also have grief 00:34:35.630 --> 00:34:38.309 books. Yeah, I don't know. You probably can't 00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:42.489 see that, but there are four books that we send 00:34:42.489 --> 00:34:46.409 out during the first year of loss. These are 00:34:46.409 --> 00:34:51.269 really quite helpful, and they help you. Each 00:34:51.269 --> 00:34:54.070 book deals with the particular... stage that 00:34:54.070 --> 00:34:58.210 you may be at and help you work through and think 00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:02.389 through some of the the things um so they're 00:35:02.389 --> 00:35:06.230 sent out by uh steven minister bob degrass he 00:35:06.230 --> 00:35:10.829 looks after it for us each booklet has a personal 00:35:10.829 --> 00:35:13.650 letter attached as well so there's a a personal 00:35:13.650 --> 00:35:16.389 touch i can speak to that and it was very meaningful 00:35:16.389 --> 00:35:19.829 yeah it's beautiful yeah um there's the meal 00:35:19.829 --> 00:35:24.719 train which provides meals for people or for 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.619 families that are just going through something 00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:31.019 where it is difficult to just think about everyday 00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:33.980 things like preparing meals and what have you. 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:36.860 So there is that. And also our prayer team as 00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:40.639 well. Don't forget there's a team of people who 00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:44.679 are committed and willing to pray for you if 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:47.239 you're willing to just share what your need is. 00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:51.250 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so if folks are listening 00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.170 and sort of thinking, well, some of those things 00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:54.869 might sound helpful for me, I just encourage 00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:57.369 you, you can reach out to the church. You can 00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.530 give us a call. Or if you email care, C -A -R 00:36:00.530 --> 00:36:04.050 -E, at trinitystreetsville .org, then you can 00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:06.550 get a direct connection. Just say, hey, I heard 00:36:06.550 --> 00:36:09.409 about Stephen Ministry or grief support or meal 00:36:09.409 --> 00:36:11.170 train, whatever it is that you need. There's 00:36:11.170 --> 00:36:14.030 lots of support available for folks. And take 00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:17.070 advantage of it. Don't be shy. I had to learn. 00:36:17.190 --> 00:36:20.329 not people who are doing this want to yeah um 00:36:20.329 --> 00:36:23.969 and they want to help support you even the meal 00:36:23.969 --> 00:36:27.690 train some days i'm lucky for my neighbors or 00:36:27.690 --> 00:36:31.670 we would have survived on cereal sure you know 00:36:31.670 --> 00:36:36.949 yeah yeah yeah yeah so neighbors make vegetables 00:36:36.949 --> 00:36:41.929 and stuff and prepare actual meals that are good 00:36:41.929 --> 00:36:44.610 for you so i that's great yeah that you got that 00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:49.159 trinity offers that yeah So maybe you just sort 00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.420 of end us off. We've talked a lot about the folks 00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:54.719 who are going through grief and loss. But for 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.940 folks who are listening and they want to care 00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:59.699 for or support people who are experiencing grief 00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:02.400 and loss, what might you say to them? Do you 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.260 have any tips or advice you might offer? The 00:37:05.260 --> 00:37:07.880 person who's grieving is normal. Okay. They're 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:11.840 the same person. I mean, I'm still Melissa. I 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:13.380 don't want to be treated like a grieving mother. 00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:15.519 Yeah. Especially if you're going to be around 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.179 me all the time. Aren't you going to get tired 00:37:17.179 --> 00:37:20.460 of that? Treat me like that. Treat me like I'm 00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:25.519 so fragile. I think Charles said it well. It's 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:34.000 be present. Show up. Shut up. Share, but don't 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:39.329 compare. Oh, yes. Oh, so your son's father died 00:37:39.329 --> 00:37:44.570 suddenly. My grandmother died. Yeah. Not helpful. 00:37:44.949 --> 00:37:51.230 No. Not helpful. Your grandmother was 95. Right. 00:37:51.349 --> 00:37:55.510 Yep. You know, one of the things I have found. 00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:59.500 where I've had to bite my tongue till it bled 00:37:59.500 --> 00:38:02.760 sometimes. And sometimes I haven't, which I probably 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:05.719 should have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I like 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:07.860 that. Share, but don't compare, right? Yeah. 00:38:08.019 --> 00:38:12.559 Yes, yes. And just be there. And as I said, in 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.179 the early stages, as a person who's right in 00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:19.139 the midst of mourning, they may not have the 00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:22.219 energy to identify what it is they need. As you 00:38:22.219 --> 00:38:25.349 said, showing up with a meal. Yeah. Someone took 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:29.690 my son out for a few hours one afternoon. My 00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:31.829 sister and brother -in -law came and just stayed. 00:38:32.630 --> 00:38:37.329 My brother and sister -in -law, I said my sister 00:38:37.329 --> 00:38:40.849 and brother -in -law, and my brother and sister 00:38:40.849 --> 00:38:45.889 -in -law also came. So I had that support. Yeah, 00:38:45.929 --> 00:38:51.480 if you want to help someone, Right? Don't go 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:53.900 in with the attitude, oh, I can fix this. Right. 00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:58.099 Right? Okay. You know, he can't make people a 00:38:58.099 --> 00:39:00.820 special project. That's not how care works. You've 00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:03.840 got to listen. You've got to be patient. Understand 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.039 what your limitations are. You're not going to 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.380 cure this situation. You wish, you really wish 00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.659 you could make it better for them, that they 00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:14.480 would have better days, that they wouldn't feel 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.920 the pain they're going through. But they've got 00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:19.360 to go through it. But you can be there with them 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.780 and walk with them. You can care, but you can't 00:39:22.780 --> 00:39:25.820 cure. Yeah, my niece Naya with my youngest who 00:39:25.820 --> 00:39:29.639 became very introverted when she lost her brother 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:34.199 would just not talk and just they'd color. Yeah, 00:39:34.219 --> 00:39:37.199 sure. That's it. And my youngest remembers that 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:42.099 about my niece Naya who would just sit in silence. 00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:46.030 Yeah. That's it. Yep. And actually my youngest 00:39:46.030 --> 00:39:48.449 was like, I really like when Naya did that. Yeah. 00:39:48.530 --> 00:39:51.829 So sometimes nothing, just coloring or watching 00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:55.210 TV with the person. Just being the presence of 00:39:55.210 --> 00:39:57.769 another person in the space. Not talking, they 00:39:57.769 --> 00:40:00.489 were just coloring and Ash appreciated it, which 00:40:00.489 --> 00:40:04.210 I thought was nice too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:40:04.210 --> 00:40:05.809 I think the other thing that I would maybe just 00:40:05.809 --> 00:40:07.829 sort of add to that is like, as someone who is 00:40:07.829 --> 00:40:10.309 caring for someone going through grief and loss. 00:40:10.889 --> 00:40:13.329 sometimes you also had a sort of personal connection 00:40:13.329 --> 00:40:15.489 to that person sometimes you didn't but just 00:40:15.489 --> 00:40:17.610 sort of making sure that you're figuring out 00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:21.309 how to best care for yourself in that space as 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:25.570 well yeah um and you know not taking on more 00:40:25.570 --> 00:40:27.150 than you can handle and making sure that you 00:40:27.150 --> 00:40:30.230 have space apart from that person to debrief 00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:32.309 how you're feeling about all of that. Right. 00:40:32.429 --> 00:40:34.889 But I don't want to support you through your 00:40:34.889 --> 00:40:37.389 grief and then say, Oh, and now help me process 00:40:37.389 --> 00:40:39.730 all of the things I'm feeling as well. Right. 00:40:39.809 --> 00:40:42.550 I believe both of my sisters have counselors 00:40:42.550 --> 00:40:46.329 of their own. Yeah. Um, to not only help themselves, 00:40:46.409 --> 00:40:50.230 but to help me because they have a connection 00:40:50.230 --> 00:40:54.510 to my son. They were the closest. We were a very 00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:56.769 close family, and to lose Alex was like losing 00:40:56.769 --> 00:40:59.329 a whole puzzle piece. Now our puzzle's incomplete. 00:40:59.909 --> 00:41:04.150 So you need counseling too. Yeah. You know, if 00:41:04.150 --> 00:41:06.429 you over -identify with the person you're trying 00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:09.210 to help, if you imagine they're in a hole and 00:41:09.210 --> 00:41:11.309 you're trying to pull them up, you can get pulled 00:41:11.309 --> 00:41:14.489 in the hole as well. The key is to have empathy, 00:41:14.750 --> 00:41:18.349 where, yes, you are listening, you are sensitive 00:41:18.349 --> 00:41:22.949 to the people. people's needs uh you know what 00:41:22.949 --> 00:41:26.250 they're going through but you're able to maintain 00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:29.190 your own space and your own identity that's so 00:41:29.190 --> 00:41:32.309 important as a caregiver because this is the 00:41:32.309 --> 00:41:36.730 long haul people think oh three months what you're 00:41:36.730 --> 00:41:39.030 not over it yet you know i mean they've moved 00:41:39.030 --> 00:41:42.239 on with their lives you know i mean look You 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.679 know, there's a whole year of anniversaries, 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:47.940 of milestones, of, you know, family celebrations 00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:52.360 where this person is not going to be there. That's 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.900 what got me was the things that he would miss, 00:41:56.019 --> 00:41:58.800 like getting married, having kids. Yeah. Yeah. 00:41:59.300 --> 00:42:02.699 So, you know, think about 18 to 24 months. Sure. 00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:05.400 And, you know, yeah. It's a long time. That's 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:08.980 a long time. That's a commitment. So, you know. 00:42:09.369 --> 00:42:13.050 be available, be consistent and be honest and 00:42:13.050 --> 00:42:15.289 just say, look, you know, I've got to take a 00:42:15.289 --> 00:42:18.489 break. Okay. Fair enough. It's better than being 00:42:18.489 --> 00:42:21.550 inconsistent. Yes, for sure. For sure. Yeah. 00:42:21.650 --> 00:42:24.030 Well, thank you so much, folks. I really appreciate 00:42:24.030 --> 00:42:28.110 your honesty and your vulnerability and just. 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.679 Yeah, the ways that you have been willing to 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:32.840 share your lives. And I hope that folks who are 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:34.880 listening have been encouraged by that, that 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.980 folks have been able to find a little shed of 00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:41.199 light, a little bit of hope. and support for 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.739 whatever they are experiencing. And thank you 00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.099 for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity 00:42:46.099 --> 00:42:48.280 Talks. As I said, I hope you have found some 00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.000 light and some hope in this. If you are in need 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.000 of support and we can help in any way, like I 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.119 said, email us, care at trinitystreetsville .org. 00:42:56.659 --> 00:42:59.659 And whatever grief and loss you are facing right 00:42:59.659 --> 00:43:02.539 now, I just pray that God fills you with a spirit 00:43:02.539 --> 00:43:06.579 of hope, peace, and life, even in the midst of 00:43:06.579 --> 00:43:08.760 that darkness. And we'll see you again next week.