Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am joined
here by three folks from Trinity's congregation
and today we're going to dive into a topic that
is really important but I think also really challenging
for folks to talk about and that is around grief
and loss. You know when those really hard things
happen in our life. When someone that we love
passes away or when we enter into a new stage
of life or when, you know, our health changes,
whatever it is, there's all kinds of hard things
that people are dealing with and often a sense
of loss and grief that comes with that. But these
folks all know what that experience is like and
have had the pleasure of sort of walking with
other people through that. So I'm excited to
sort of. dive into this conversation and figure
out how do we support one another in the midst
of those really challenging moments. So thank
you all for joining me. You're welcome. Yeah,
so maybe we'll get started, do a little bit of
introductions. You can just say your name and
maybe a little bit about sort of what your experience
with grief or with working with others who are
grieving has sort of been like. So we'll start
over here. Okay. Hi, I'm Ruth Bleinek. I've been
part of Trinity for probably about 15 years in
total. Professionally, I was a nurse for many,
many years. Gray hair shows it. Everything from
critical care to mission hospitals, home care,
but finally with hospice care. Okay. Personally,
I've had several losses of family through death.
Parents decades ago. Sure. A brother, a nephew,
but most impactful. My husband, three and a half
years ago. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.
Sorry for your loss. Thank you. Yeah. Do you
want to introduce yourself here? Sure. My name
is Melissa. And eight years ago, June 5th, 2018,
I lost my 19 -year -old son, Alex. Okay. It was
a sudden death. It was not an illness. It was
just a freak accident. He was in a coma for three
days and then he did pass away, unfortunately.
And, you know, it's taught me how normal death
is, unfortunately. Sure. It's not a club I want
to join, but since I'm here, I don't have a choice.
Because people say, I don't understand how you
do it. And it's like, well, the choice wasn't
there. Right. Yeah. But yeah. The cards you were
dealt. Yes. So, but I've met some amazing people
through it. I have to say one positive thing.
I've met some awesome people and got to be part
of some awesome things and help people like yourself.
Share the message that people aren't alone. Yeah,
yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And then over
here. I'm Charles Ansell. I've been at Trinity
34 years. Okay. So I'm just part of the fixture
and furniture. Of those 34 years, 25 have been
in the caring ministry. Yeah. For the first 10
years, I led the prayer and healing ministry
with Gwen Eck. And then the last 15 years, I've
been a Stephen minister and a Stephen leader.
So I've had experience working alongside people
who were going through grief and hearing their
stories. sharing their pain yeah yeah yeah yeah
and so for folks who aren't familiar stephen
ministers or folks who accompany those who are
dealing with some sort of stress in their life
or some difficult challenges and often that involves
grief and loss not always but that's correct
yeah yeah i'll be giving a plug for them later
okay you know what and same because i did when
i first joined trinity i joined stephen ministries
and a very lovely lady walked with me And actually
her and I just spoke the other day. She remembered
my daughter. She checked in. It was a beautiful
experience and I really liked her. Yeah. Yeah.
So I say it's a great thing because we not only
talked about my son, we talked about my youngest
child who's the one turning 18 about, you know.
her being a teenager and her getting ready to
leave. So it was a great experience. So yeah,
I'll help them plug. That's awesome. Awesome.
Yeah. Okay. So maybe to sort of start us off,
what's one thing that you wish more folks sort
of understood about grief or maybe, you know,
a misunderstanding that you've sort of encountered?
Yeah. Do you want to start us off again, Ruth?
Sure. I would say the one thing is that grief,
whether it be a loss through death or a less
recognized one, something like miscarriage or
infertility or, as you said, your empty nest,
each grief is unique. And in hospice world, we
use the term for someone with a life -limiting
illness of individual. not patient or client,
to designate that each grief is an individual
process for not just the person who is dying,
although we say living life to the fullest until
your death. But also the family and loved ones
nearby. So it's an individual process. Yeah.
One story isn't the same as another. One size
does not fit all. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah.
Anything you would want to sort of add to that?
Things people understood. Things I had to understand.
Death is normal. And I did not get a choice.
And, but the one other thing is I'm still Melissa.
Some people treat me like I'm about to burst
into flames. Or if I talk about Alex, it's like,
oh my gosh, she's going to be okay. And it's
like, yeah, like people have to understand he
was still my son. I still have three kids and
people will look at me and be like, I don't know
how you, well, do you think I was like this the
first day? Right. Sure. This is eight years later.
Yeah. And people often don't think that they
just think, oh, my gosh, because they're first
hearing about it. Sure. You know what? I've often
liken it to when you get pregnant and you get
used to it. You're like, OK, now I'm pregnant.
But then you have to tell your significant other
and he's freaking out. That's how I think, because
you're you get used to it, but you're hearing
it for the first time. Right. So people have
to understand that you're hearing it for the
first time. Right. Right. It's not, it's not
news to you. Yes. It's I'm not, I'm going to
be okay. If you say, Hey, how are you? Yeah.
Are you, are you good? Are you having a good
day? I'm not going to, you know, melt or burst
into flames or go crazy. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's
okay to bring that up. It's okay to talk. To
still treat me like I am Melissa. Yeah. Cause
I am. Yeah. Because. child loss is not my personality.
I'm Melissa first. And people don't really see
that often. Yeah, no, that's totally fair. Yeah,
Naomi makes a great point. In our North American
culture, we're uncomfortable with grief, with
death, anything around it. And yes, we treat
people who are going through that, oh, you know.
We've got to be very careful with them and what
have you. Yes, you have to be sensitive. You
have to be caring. But they're still a human
being. They want support. They want care. And,
yeah, they want to know that they're heard. You've
got to listen to where they're at. And, yeah,
it's quite normal to talk about the person they've
lost. I lost both of my parents. I never got
to their funerals. My father died in England
while I was here in Canada, and my mom in New
Zealand. Okay. Now, for my mother, we had a celebration
of life here in Canada because she'd been here
a few times and some people knew her. Sure. And
I found it very comforting talking to people
because they had memories of my mother. Sure.
And, you know, yes, it's still painful. Yeah.
It's still a huge loss. But I just found some
comfort talking about the one I'd lost. Yeah.
You know, yeah, we've got to get over that, but
we've got to be sensitive. And, you know, there's
a right time and there's wrong time. So you've
got to listen and then, you know, respond to
the person, you know, the bereaved person. Wonderful.
On this point, loss, you know, yes, we think
of. you know, the loss of a loved one. But there's
many other sorts of loss that equally, you know,
it may not be as life changing, but job loss,
for example, you know, miscarriage, divorce,
life threatening illnesses, or spiritual crisis,
even, you know, or depression. I mean, these
are all people are grieving a loss of their normality
yeah and i think a shift in their identity often
as well i think is a really big piece of it right
like when it's yeah whether it is the loss of
a child the loss of a parent the loss of a job
the loss of a spouse like whatever it is if It
changes how you think of yourself, I think, right?
Yes. Like, I've been a mother for almost 30 years.
Yeah. And now that my baby's leaving, I'm like,
I don't know what to do. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because my life is changing. Not that I won't
be a mother still, but it's not going to be in
the same way as when you've got minors. Yeah.
You know, in the house. Yeah. You know, she wants
to go away to university. I support her. Yeah.
But I'm still going to be alone. Yeah. It's still
going to change my life. For sure. For sure.
So. Yeah. Yeah. So on that note, like what would
you say are some of the most challenging aspects
of dealing with grief? Some of those maybe unexpected
pieces. Missing him. Yeah. The missing. Yeah.
You have no idea what I miss you means until
you have to miss someone. Yeah. You have no idea.
Yeah. And I hold to that because I didn't. I
thought this was something that happened to people
on TV. Sure. Not to me. And I didn't know. And
it's not just missing him, it's missing, he could
have had kids. He would have been 27. Yeah. So
he could have had children. Right. He could have
got married at 27, graduated university. Sure.
I could have been a grandma. Yeah. Yeah. So I
grieve those things. Recently, one of his friends
got married. I cried at that. Sure. You know,
so things he could have done. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. For sure. For sure. So that's the, I think
that's the biggest for me. I don't know about
others. Yeah. I would say that, you know, Kubler
-Loss says there's five stages of grief and others
have said seven. Sure. And so it's remembering
that grief is not a linear process. Yes. You
don't go from denial to anger, jump to acceptance
and away you go. That would be great. It's two
steps forward and one step back or sometimes
three steps back. Yes. Sure. Absolutely. accepting
that that's going to be the process. The other
thing I would say is that there's a lot of emphasis
put on that first year after the loss through
death. And in my case, now that I'm a widow,
and that's a new identity. Yes, for sure. I don't
have any family within hours from here. So everything
was on me to do financial, Practical. Yeah. And
so there's all of that to do the first year.
Yeah. And then after the first year, the adrenaline
goes down, the reality hits. Yep. And your group
of support is diminished. Yes. Because they've
moved on. Yeah. Yep. And you're still, you're
moving forward. Sure. But you never move on because
that person is always with you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the hardest
things. Yeah. You've got to be patient with people
who are grieving, okay? Because, you know, there's
something called grief brain. Okay. Because,
you know, they're focusing. focusing so much
on their loss and the pain they're not sleeping
well there are physical symptoms they have but
also they're very forgetful they have difficulty
even doing routine sure household things you
know it means certainly they'll forget to pay
bills and things like that i had to be reminded
to eat sometimes yeah yeah yeah that's right
so you know if you're there trying to support
someone like that. You've got to be aware of
that. Don't underestimate, you know, the importance
of practical help. Sure. Just mundane things,
you know, the household chores, outside chores,
child care, transportation. Technical. Oh, tech
support. Yes. Technical. Charles is my... I appreciated
all the food being dropped off. That was awesome.
My neighbors really helped out. Yeah. Yeah. I
live in a great neighborhood, too. Yeah. Yeah.
I've got to get my bugaboo out of the way. Sure.
You've got to listen to the person. And, you
know, when we engage, you know, someone like
Naomi, right, who has lost her son, what do you
say? You feel you've got to say something. And
what you end up doing, you know, is saying platitudes
and cliches. Yeah. Which you think are helpful,
but they're not. In fact, they're hurtful, you
know, because they're showing, you know, you're
not listening. You don't understand. You can't
make assumptions like that. So, you know, you
don't say, oh, how are you doing? A person going
through grief, they don't know how they're doing.
Sure. How do you think I'm doing? I'm falling
apart, you know? Yeah. So it's a silly question.
But, you know, you can say, look. I am sorry
that you're going through this. I'm sorry for
your loss. Tell me, what's going on in your life
at the moment? Sure. I'm sorry for your loss
is often enough. I'm sorry for your loss. Yeah.
Yeah, so just the platitudes to avoid. Come on.
I know how you feel. No, you don't. Yeah, that
one, my goodness, if you really knew. Yeah. Oh,
it's for the best. They're in a better place.
God needed a flower for his garden. I heard that
one. God needed an angel or a flower for his
garden. Yep. It's God's will. God doesn't give
you more than you can handle. Or time heals all
wounds. Right. They sort of sound good. They're
not helpful. No. Okay. So just say you're sorry
and listen. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah.
So thinking about that and like, you know, these
are the unhelpful things to say. And some of
the things around faith specifically. Right.
Yeah. I think in a Christian context, we. should
know how to deal with grief well but i think
we don't always um but are there ways that you
think your faith has been impacted by your own
sort of grief and loss or by working through
that with other people i stopped believing in
god completely sure i lost my faith i i had no
i begged uh in the church at the hospital yeah
and i got told no And I was just, my son fell
eight feet and hit his head and died. Eight feet?
He should have just broke his leg. Like, sure.
You know, but I said, okay, God, me and you are
finished. Sure. I was done. Yeah. I was done.
Yeah. And then in 2023, well, okay, no, a little
bit before that, I went through some things and
my son had a Bible. And I found it on May 27th.
And in the Bible, another pastor from another
church had written May 27th to Alexander. And
I'm like, okay, yeah, I hear you. So I took his
Bible and that's what started my journey again.
And then I got here and it was Rob who said,
God doesn't stop cancer or child loss. That's
what started my journey at Trinity. I'm like,
finally, finally. Somebody says it. Somebody
of faith said it. It's God doesn't stop that.
It's going to happen. And Rob kept it real. So
I've always been grateful for that. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I think what I was going to say really
fits with that because the Old Testament theologian
Walter Brueggemann, and my husband would be thrilled
I put a plug in for a theologian, compares the
Christian faith to... The Psalms of Lament, where
there's orientation, then disorientation, and
then a reorientation. And I would say that has
been my experience too. I didn't lose my faith,
but there was... when all I could say was help.
Like Annie Lamont says, help, thanks, wow. And
so I would say that my faith is deeper. And I
come back to that old hymn, in the valley he
restores my soul. Sure. And that's been my experience.
You were nodding, Charles. Were you going to
quote Bergerman too? No, no, no, no. I'm not
at that level. But yeah, I mean, in the early
stages of loss, the why question dominates. Why?
Why is this happening? Why is this happening
to me? You know, Naomi, you fell eight feet.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, his son fell eight
feet. He could have just broken a limb, as you
say. It could have ended so differently. You
go through all the what -ifs, and it just eats
away at you, and it eats away at your beliefs
and what have you. It can be very difficult.
What I've seen is God meeting people where they
are, in their pain, in their anger, in their
just... Absolute helplessness. Yes. You know,
I've seen God be present for them and in many
other expected ways. And I've come to see as
people go through their journey of loss and whatever,
they come to see that, oh, yes, you know, I had
some of the footprints. You know, the pouring
footprints. Yes. There's only one set of tracks
on the beach, you know. And those were the times
when I was going through the most hurt. And we
say, where were you, Jesus, during those periods
of my life when I was hurting? And Jesus just
says, those are the times I carried you. And,
you know, once people realize that, they can
come out at the other end stronger in their faith.
Yes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's definitely
true. I think it's also important to, like, take
the long view in that. Yes. Right? Absolutely.
Like, I appreciate, like, the honesty that both
of you have had in sharing that, like, it gets
better, but it gets real bad first. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. I have to say God came to hell. and
met me there yeah because that's where i was
yeah i i don't know how real i can keep it i
almost ended my life yeah and jesus met me there
and i'm here yeah because of that right yeah
you know and it was a real factor for a lot of
days i didn't handle it right sure because there's
no like instruction manual just like when you
have kids there's no instruction manual yeah
so but it it But having good family, his funeral,
my sister's wife, Rachel, I have to give her
a shout out. She stepped in and planned Alex's
funeral. Yeah. And without being asked, without
it being a question, she just kind of stepped
in. Yeah. Yeah. So I think those kind of things
help keep me people around too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure. That helps build you back up when you're
lost. Yeah. You know, God sends people to help.
Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, for sure. For
sure. Yeah. And I think just that sense that
like we can be, yeah, what feels like in the
pits of hell, in the darkness, in that place
where it feels like there is no hope and to know
as like cliche as it sounds, that God is still
there. Yes. And maybe I don't. Say that in those
words to you in that moment, because that may
or may not be helpful. But like to just know
as if I'm sort of supporting someone through
loss and grief to know that I can pray for that
person, that God is there. God has that. He's
already been ahead of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because looking back now, I see I didn't even
plan Alex's funeral. It was Rachel. Yeah. And
I don't even remember it. And I. Thank God today,
I didn't have to. I didn't have to. God sent
someone to, because that's the first thing I
kind of remember that I had to live through.
And she was God sent to deal with that. So it
was beautiful. So thank you. Thank you for sharing.
This is a really important point. So if somebody
in the podcast is listening and you're going
through grief or a period of loss, I really want
you to know that you're not alone. You are not
alone. And that's so important to get your head
around that there is a God who cares and loves
you. And he is present whether you know it or
not. And also around you there are people who
do truly care and want to help. So don't shut
yourself off. Make yourself vulnerable and ask
for help. Yeah. It's going to help you. Yeah.
And sometimes you don't even have the energy
to ask. Yes. So that's when friends that are
our family. Perceptive. Yes. And show up. Yeah.
Show up. Yeah. My sister and Rachel live in BC.
And when they came here, I was like, I got to
be a kid sister, which was let my older sisters
handle it all. And they did. Yeah. I was like,
bye. And my younger sister as well, who's also
there for me, Stephanie. if I can call her at
any time she'd prefer I don't but I can sure
yeah so my and my best friend you keep like you
said your circle gets smaller so I have like
Tasha, Rachel, Farah, Stephanie yes I have my
parents and my brothers yeah but like you cherish
that for sure of that for sure I don't know what
I'd do without them yeah you know they're why
I'm here yeah for sure for sure Are there other
things that you think have been helpful for you
or for other people that you've seen as you sort
of walk through grief? So this having this circle
of support. Yes, I'd like to say surviving children
has helped. Yeah. Surviving children. I know
Jennifer Neville Lake, if you know who that is.
She was the girl who's she was the woman whose
children were killed by Marco Muzo, the drunk
driver. Oh, yes. Her three children and her dad.
Yes. She, in my darkest hours, was someone I
looked to. She lost all three of her children.
So knowing I had surviving children helped me.
I don't know about anybody else. What would you
add to that? The things that have been helpful.
Journaling. Reading both Christian and non -Christian
authors. The Bible, particularly the Psalms.
Some counseling. And as you said, friends, you
find out who's going to be with you after the
funeral. Yes. And there's a small circle, includes
Charles and Ruth, who have provided practical
and emotional support. Yes. Because with my family
so far away, not having parents, having one adult
son with special needs, I'm in a... Every situation
is unique. I know that. But it's been wonderful
to have friends. There's some extra bits to work
through. Complications. Yeah, for sure. And the
suddenness of my husband's death from an undiagnosed
medical condition. Right. He died at home in
our bed. And so, you know, all of a sudden, you're
confronted with planning a funeral. Unfortunately,
he was a pastor, and we had had enough deaths
that I was somewhat of an expert, although Charles
came through and helped me do the bulletins.
So those are the things that have been helpful.
Having a good planner is one of the greatest
things, I think. Someone who just steps in, okay,
here's what needs to be done. I like that part,
too. Yeah, one thing that has helped me when
I'm going through periods of loss or grief, um
is to force myself to think of one thing i've
been thankful for this day okay it seems a simple
thing sure but when you're in a dark place trust
me that's not easy but if you can force yourself
to do that yeah you know gratitude it it opens
up bright lights at the end of that tunnel for
you you know so you you know you may not be there
yet you're still in that dark place but you know
where you're going and the other thing as christians
is that we're people of the resurrection yeah
we have this hope yeah now you know you're in
a dark place and uh yeah you wonder where god
is how could i be in this place yeah but there's
still that glimmer of hope if you like that light
at the end of the tunnel yeah so if we can just
force ourselves to think of one thing yeah to
be thankful for yeah makes a difference yeah
it does absolutely being grateful thankful yeah
yeah and i think like christianity is a faith
of unreasonable hope yes right like that in those
dark places where it feels like we don't know
what's happening it feels like there's nothing
nothing to hold on to like yeah christianity
says there's still light yes jesus is still there
there's still something to find and like i know
for myself when i'm in some of those dark moments
it can feel really hard to find that light for
myself. But if there are people around me who
can say, no, like this is the thing to be thankful
for today. Or like, no, like I'm with you in
this and no, I'm going to bring you to church.
I'm going to bring you to like, we're going to
sit down and have coffee together. Like create
those spaces of life. Yes. Right. Being present.
Yeah. It's such, such an important thing. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I like when I'm feeling a way
and I can call my sister and she's like, really
and i'm like okay it's silly okay great and she
says things sometimes a little meaner but i need
that because sometimes you're you know going
off the rails and she's like she puts it back
sure and she'll put it back with laughter with
teasing yeah and yeah i'm like oh okay all right
so i am being a little you know yeah a little
extra as my kids would say yeah yeah so i'm grateful
for that just and laughing yeah because she'll
be like and then say a joke yeah you know jokes
i probably can't say on here sure whatever whatever
works but laughter sometimes is just It's awesome.
Yeah. So for folks who are sort of listening
to this conversation right now, if they are dealing
with grief and loss, like what is sort of one
thing that you might say to them, one thing that
you might sort of offer them? I would say be
kind to yourself. Practice self -care, whatever
that looks like for you. Sure. And don't, you
know, leave the shoulda, coulda, wouldas. Yeah.
Because that's not helpful. Sure. Yeah. No. And
as you said, Charles, be vulnerable. Allow people
in. There'll be bad days when you really don't
want to. You want to just close the curtains,
turn out the lights, and turn into a fetal position.
Yeah. But it's better to, if you can, reach out.
Yeah. And I would say. Be kind to yourself. Yeah,
yes. And seek the supports that you need, whether
they're professional or personal. Yeah, yes.
And practical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been really
grateful for the people here who have given me
the names of an accountant and of a lawyer and
all of that. because mine were all retiring right
bless their hearts yeah yeah yeah yes yeah and
i think that like being kind to yourself that
like self -care sometimes like sounds a little
cliche and sometimes i think we complicate it
we're like uh self -care means like a spa day
or whatever but no sometimes self -care means
ordering some uber eats and just like having
a meal that you don't need to cook right like
it doesn't need to be I like to read, so I've
gone to the library and got a whole pizza and
called it a day. There you go. I think counseling
is important. People love you and care about
you, but I don't know how this is going to sound.
It might sound mean. You cannot lean on everyone
all the time. Sure. If you have access to benefits.
use them and I use mine for everything I get
a massage when I need it I get counseling when
I need it I think chiropractor I have never taken
advantage of my benefits like since I lost Alex
and people and I don't want people to think oh
no I can't share my story but there's something
to be said for a professional sure someone who
does not know alex so is or your loved one and
doesn't isn't gonna fall into the trenches with
you sure they're there to take you out i know
my sisters and then love and them love me but
they know alex yeah so i make space for their
grief too sure yeah so i i enjoy professional
and i know not all people have access to sure
sure but there are a lot of free services like
heart house hospice steven ministries that you
can take advantage of and i really think it was
nice with steven ministries she didn't know al
she didn't know me She was just there as a neutral
party. And that's what you need sometimes. Yeah,
for sure. Yeah, I just want to build on Ruth's
point because it's so important. You know, go
easy on yourself. You may be having a bad day.
Okay, you know, write this one off. Just, you
know, whatever you need. If you need to curl
up on the couch, if you need to just binge some
TV or whatever. look do it okay tomorrow may
be a better day and as you go along the number
of good days begin to outnumber the bad days
yes you know and you you begin to heal and move
and be able to function again sure but if you're
in that space don't you know, overly fight it.
Sometimes it's good to just give in and just
say, I need to rest. I need to get just the sleep
today. Sure. Yes. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
like a wave. It's going to crash anyways. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, and do you want to share a little bit
more about Stephen ministry and how that works?
All right. Yes. Well, here at Trinity, we, we,
we've always had caring ministries and, um, So
we have Stephen Ministry. So these are trained
members of Trinity who are there to just walk
alongside you to provide one -on -one Christian
care in a completely confidential manner. So,
you know, yeah, if you need someone, as you said,
a neutral party in your life, who's not family,
there's no baggage or whatever, someone who's
just there to listen. and to support you and
to care and be consistent, a Stephen Minister
might be able to help you. We also have grief
books. Yeah, I don't know. You probably can't
see that, but there are four books that we send
out during the first year of loss. These are
really quite helpful, and they help you. Each
book deals with the particular... stage that
you may be at and help you work through and think
through some of the the things um so they're
sent out by uh steven minister bob degrass he
looks after it for us each booklet has a personal
letter attached as well so there's a a personal
touch i can speak to that and it was very meaningful
yeah it's beautiful yeah um there's the meal
train which provides meals for people or for
families that are just going through something
where it is difficult to just think about everyday
things like preparing meals and what have you.
So there is that. And also our prayer team as
well. Don't forget there's a team of people who
are committed and willing to pray for you if
you're willing to just share what your need is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so if folks are listening
and sort of thinking, well, some of those things
might sound helpful for me, I just encourage
you, you can reach out to the church. You can
give us a call. Or if you email care, C -A -R
-E, at trinitystreetsville .org, then you can
get a direct connection. Just say, hey, I heard
about Stephen Ministry or grief support or meal
train, whatever it is that you need. There's
lots of support available for folks. And take
advantage of it. Don't be shy. I had to learn.
not people who are doing this want to yeah um
and they want to help support you even the meal
train some days i'm lucky for my neighbors or
we would have survived on cereal sure you know
yeah yeah yeah yeah so neighbors make vegetables
and stuff and prepare actual meals that are good
for you so i that's great yeah that you got that
trinity offers that yeah So maybe you just sort
of end us off. We've talked a lot about the folks
who are going through grief and loss. But for
folks who are listening and they want to care
for or support people who are experiencing grief
and loss, what might you say to them? Do you
have any tips or advice you might offer? The
person who's grieving is normal. Okay. They're
the same person. I mean, I'm still Melissa. I
don't want to be treated like a grieving mother.
Yeah. Especially if you're going to be around
me all the time. Aren't you going to get tired
of that? Treat me like that. Treat me like I'm
so fragile. I think Charles said it well. It's
be present. Show up. Shut up. Share, but don't
compare. Oh, yes. Oh, so your son's father died
suddenly. My grandmother died. Yeah. Not helpful.
No. Not helpful. Your grandmother was 95. Right.
Yep. You know, one of the things I have found.
where I've had to bite my tongue till it bled
sometimes. And sometimes I haven't, which I probably
should have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I like
that. Share, but don't compare, right? Yeah.
Yes, yes. And just be there. And as I said, in
the early stages, as a person who's right in
the midst of mourning, they may not have the
energy to identify what it is they need. As you
said, showing up with a meal. Yeah. Someone took
my son out for a few hours one afternoon. My
sister and brother -in -law came and just stayed.
My brother and sister -in -law, I said my sister
and brother -in -law, and my brother and sister
-in -law also came. So I had that support. Yeah,
if you want to help someone, Right? Don't go
in with the attitude, oh, I can fix this. Right.
Right? Okay. You know, he can't make people a
special project. That's not how care works. You've
got to listen. You've got to be patient. Understand
what your limitations are. You're not going to
cure this situation. You wish, you really wish
you could make it better for them, that they
would have better days, that they wouldn't feel
the pain they're going through. But they've got
to go through it. But you can be there with them
and walk with them. You can care, but you can't
cure. Yeah, my niece Naya with my youngest who
became very introverted when she lost her brother
would just not talk and just they'd color. Yeah,
sure. That's it. And my youngest remembers that
about my niece Naya who would just sit in silence.
Yeah. That's it. Yep. And actually my youngest
was like, I really like when Naya did that. Yeah.
So sometimes nothing, just coloring or watching
TV with the person. Just being the presence of
another person in the space. Not talking, they
were just coloring and Ash appreciated it, which
I thought was nice too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
I think the other thing that I would maybe just
sort of add to that is like, as someone who is
caring for someone going through grief and loss.
sometimes you also had a sort of personal connection
to that person sometimes you didn't but just
sort of making sure that you're figuring out
how to best care for yourself in that space as
well yeah um and you know not taking on more
than you can handle and making sure that you
have space apart from that person to debrief
how you're feeling about all of that. Right.
But I don't want to support you through your
grief and then say, Oh, and now help me process
all of the things I'm feeling as well. Right.
I believe both of my sisters have counselors
of their own. Yeah. Um, to not only help themselves,
but to help me because they have a connection
to my son. They were the closest. We were a very
close family, and to lose Alex was like losing
a whole puzzle piece. Now our puzzle's incomplete.
So you need counseling too. Yeah. You know, if
you over -identify with the person you're trying
to help, if you imagine they're in a hole and
you're trying to pull them up, you can get pulled
in the hole as well. The key is to have empathy,
where, yes, you are listening, you are sensitive
to the people. people's needs uh you know what
they're going through but you're able to maintain
your own space and your own identity that's so
important as a caregiver because this is the
long haul people think oh three months what you're
not over it yet you know i mean they've moved
on with their lives you know i mean look You
know, there's a whole year of anniversaries,
of milestones, of, you know, family celebrations
where this person is not going to be there. That's
what got me was the things that he would miss,
like getting married, having kids. Yeah. Yeah.
So, you know, think about 18 to 24 months. Sure.
And, you know, yeah. It's a long time. That's
a long time. That's a commitment. So, you know.
be available, be consistent and be honest and
just say, look, you know, I've got to take a
break. Okay. Fair enough. It's better than being
inconsistent. Yes, for sure. For sure. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much, folks. I really appreciate
your honesty and your vulnerability and just.
Yeah, the ways that you have been willing to
share your lives. And I hope that folks who are
listening have been encouraged by that, that
folks have been able to find a little shed of
light, a little bit of hope. and support for
whatever they are experiencing. And thank you
for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity
Talks. As I said, I hope you have found some
light and some hope in this. If you are in need
of support and we can help in any way, like I
said, email us, care at trinitystreetsville .org.
And whatever grief and loss you are facing right
now, I just pray that God fills you with a spirit
of hope, peace, and life, even in the midst of
that darkness. And we'll see you again next week.