WEBVTT 00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:06.059 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.059 --> 00:00:09.580 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am so 00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:12.960 glad to be joined here by two folks who are part 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.800 of our Trinity family and we're going to be talking 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:18.500 about Father's Day together and specifically 00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:22.000 about what it's like being a dad or being grandfather 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.960 and yeah how all of those bits of life connect 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:28.739 to our faith. So thank you so much for joining 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:31.829 me folks. You're welcome. Yeah, maybe we'll just 00:00:31.829 --> 00:00:33.929 start with some introductions. You can say your 00:00:33.929 --> 00:00:36.210 name and a little bit about your family. We'll 00:00:36.210 --> 00:00:39.549 start over here. Okay. Well, my name is Ken and 00:00:39.549 --> 00:00:41.509 I'm a retired police officer. I've been married 00:00:41.509 --> 00:00:45.509 now for quite some time since 1978. I have two 00:00:45.509 --> 00:00:48.829 wonderful children. I have four fantastic grandchildren 00:00:48.829 --> 00:00:51.750 and I even had an opportunity to act as a foster 00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:55.189 parent for some time. Okay, very cool. And over 00:00:55.189 --> 00:01:00.030 here. Okay, I'm Bruce and I worked in the justice 00:01:00.030 --> 00:01:03.630 system and I tried to retire and one day I will 00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:07.370 be successful at it. Today is not that day? Today 00:01:07.370 --> 00:01:10.129 is not that day and I also have two children. 00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:14.569 I only have two grandchildren so far but we have, 00:01:14.629 --> 00:01:16.569 oh can I say this? Yeah, I'm gonna say it anyways. 00:01:16.829 --> 00:01:19.269 We have one on the way. Okay. I think everybody 00:01:19.269 --> 00:01:24.180 knows and I think that's it. Okay. Great. Thank 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:27.280 you so much. So maybe we'll start by thinking 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.500 about, you know, what is one of the things that 00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:33.159 surprised you the most or that was sort of unexpected 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.500 for you when you became a father or then later 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:39.439 when you became a grandfather? Yeah. What would 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:41.799 you say, Ken? For me, I would think it would 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:46.879 be just how wonderful each stage was as the children 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:49.299 and the grandchildren grow. And I didn't really 00:01:49.299 --> 00:01:53.849 expect that. I certainly appreciated every phase. 00:01:54.930 --> 00:01:56.849 And there's points when the children, especially 00:01:56.849 --> 00:01:58.090 when they're little and they're toddlers and 00:01:58.090 --> 00:01:59.709 they're so cute and you're thinking, I'd like 00:01:59.709 --> 00:02:02.189 them not to grow to this. But then the next phase 00:02:02.189 --> 00:02:04.790 comes along the next stage of development. And 00:02:04.790 --> 00:02:06.430 there's just so much more you can do with them, 00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:09.129 so much more you can interact. So I really didn't 00:02:09.129 --> 00:02:12.210 anticipate that. But each each stage has a wonderful 00:02:12.210 --> 00:02:16.629 gift and promise. And later on challenges. Sure. 00:02:17.050 --> 00:02:20.129 That's totally fair. Yeah. Yeah. What about for 00:02:20.129 --> 00:02:26.830 you, Bruce? For me, I never expected to be able 00:02:26.830 --> 00:02:33.270 to love another human being so instantaneously 00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:38.550 as when our children were born. It floored me 00:02:38.550 --> 00:02:42.270 just how my heart was bursting with love for 00:02:42.270 --> 00:02:45.870 this child who I met like a minute before. Sure. 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.500 And same with my grandchildren. It was like, 00:02:49.939 --> 00:02:52.039 I remember, like, I don't take a good picture. 00:02:52.699 --> 00:02:55.000 And I remember one of the best pictures ever 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.319 taken of me was the first time I held my granddaughter. 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:03.620 And you could just see how much I loved Evelyn 00:03:03.620 --> 00:03:06.599 right from the start. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.599 Yeah. I'm going to just add on to what we said 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.860 that the very first time Melissa came home, my 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.960 oldest, and she was swaddled. And I was lying 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.139 on the couch and Pearl put her on my chest. Yeah. 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.620 And just the incredible emotional feeling. Sure. 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.860 This child is sleeping and totally unexpected. 00:03:25.219 --> 00:03:26.919 Didn't expect to experience that at all. But 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:29.120 it was just a wonderful, wonderful experience. 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:31.860 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's something 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:35.259 that's like. Unique or at least different for 00:03:35.259 --> 00:03:37.800 dads than for moms, right? Because mom has all 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:41.120 of this time You know if it's a biological child 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:43.439 like carrying this child like bonding with this 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.080 kid as they're sort of growing in them But then 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:47.960 yeah dads don't get quite that same thing, but 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.919 it's yeah to hear that like instant connection 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.900 Hold that kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah for sure 00:03:55.979 --> 00:03:59.240 So what's something that you have learned as 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.879 a dad? Something that, you know, maybe before 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:03.719 you were like, oh, I don't know, or like you 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:05.060 just felt like this was sort of foreign. But 00:04:05.060 --> 00:04:07.500 now you're like, ah, this is like what I've learned 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:10.300 as a as a dad. What would you sort of say? Want 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:15.639 to start us off? Yeah, I think for me, I learned 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:20.040 that you. Babies are born babies because you're 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:22.459 not ready for them to be toddlers and you're 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.970 not ready for them to be. you know teenagers 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:31.350 and and you are teaching your children as much 00:04:31.350 --> 00:04:34.389 as you can but you're also learning sure how 00:04:34.389 --> 00:04:38.209 to be a dad as it goes along sure um and about 00:04:38.209 --> 00:04:40.889 being a grandfather i learned that there's a 00:04:40.889 --> 00:04:43.730 reason you have children when you're young because 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:47.589 we spend the day with our grandchildren and like 00:04:47.589 --> 00:04:50.680 laura and i come home and we are dead to the 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.379 world. Sure. And it's like, how do they do this 00:04:53.379 --> 00:04:56.839 day in and day out? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We used 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:59.000 to do it day in and day out when we were young. 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:01.959 Sure. Not anymore. So we do it once a week. Right. 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:06.300 Yeah. Yeah. So those bits sort of go really well 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:08.100 with what Ken was saying earlier about the different 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:11.519 stages. Right. Like in each stage of your life, 00:05:11.579 --> 00:05:13.339 in each stage of the kid's life, you're like. 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:15.600 ready for the next thing, even if it doesn't 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.420 feel like it yet. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:20.399 like if I had to deal with some of the issues 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.319 we dealt with when they were teenagers, when 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:26.920 they were just born. Yeah. I would have messed 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.920 up terribly. Sure. But you sort of like you you 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.480 grow with them and you learn with them. And by 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.180 the time they're teenagers, you're ready for 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:38.100 it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say? 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.870 I think that. Maybe the most important lesson 00:05:42.870 --> 00:05:47.209 I might have learned is the balance between authority 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:49.949 and influence. You want to guide your children 00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:54.870 to grow and to be joyful, responsible adults. 00:05:55.589 --> 00:05:58.769 And to do that at first when they're very young, 00:05:58.850 --> 00:06:01.149 of course, you've got authority. But that has 00:06:01.149 --> 00:06:05.360 to change. And you have to maintain... you have 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.579 to maintain an attitude that's going to develop 00:06:08.579 --> 00:06:10.720 your ability to influence your child. So you've 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.459 got to develop, as time goes on, a relationship 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:19.439 that involves them understanding that you are 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.480 truly interested in their welfare. And that comes, 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.120 that's the influence portion. And other influences 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:26.860 are going to come into their lives that you can't 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:29.300 control. And so that I think it's really important 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:33.339 that you maintain as a father that that thought 00:06:33.339 --> 00:06:34.980 that I have a certain level of authority, but 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:37.879 that has to drop and the level of influence I 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:42.199 have has to increase so that I can maintain that 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.259 proper relationship and hope to have good guidance. 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:47.420 I think one of the most important lessons from 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:50.980 the Bible is seeing how Jesus talks about. hypocrites. 00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:54.779 And I think that how damaging if I behave hypocritical 00:06:54.779 --> 00:06:57.860 behavior that can be to those relationships and 00:06:57.860 --> 00:06:59.920 thus decrease the trust and the influence that 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:03.899 I can have in helping my children grow and my 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:05.980 grandchildren as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.589 And do you feel like like over time that that 00:07:09.589 --> 00:07:11.629 those levels like change, like maybe when they're 00:07:11.629 --> 00:07:13.149 young, it's more of an authority and less of 00:07:13.149 --> 00:07:15.370 an influence. And then it like shifts over time 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.290 or does it? Absolutely. And it's and it's a constant 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:21.870 change. Sure. And certainly for me, it's not 00:07:21.870 --> 00:07:23.829 perhaps as challenging. I don't think is it's 00:07:23.829 --> 00:07:26.029 going to be for for current parents and certainly 00:07:26.029 --> 00:07:29.759 for my children as parents, because. We didn't 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:32.019 have social media to influence the children the 00:07:32.019 --> 00:07:33.420 same way. I mean, the internet was available, 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.040 but it wasn't available to the same extent. There 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:38.939 wasn't so much influence. So in order to maintain 00:07:38.939 --> 00:07:44.319 my influence, I think that it's something that 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.480 is constantly under adjustment, but it's so important 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:52.980 to maintain that trust and to be just basically 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.220 forthright on us with your children. Avoid manipulation 00:07:56.220 --> 00:07:58.160 whenever possible because people will detect 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.800 it. Yeah, and it's very damaging to relationships. 00:08:01.019 --> 00:08:05.459 Yeah. Yeah for sure for sure. Yeah So, what would 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:08.920 you say is the best part about being a father 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:11.800 and or the best part about being a grandfather? 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:15.180 Yeah, you want to start us off there Bruce? Best 00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:17.439 thing. Yeah, I'm going to start with grandfather. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.500 Sure. Best part about being grandfather is that 00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:23.800 you get to be with your grandkids. You get to 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:29.329 play with them. You get to spoil them. And then 00:08:29.329 --> 00:08:31.170 when there's a dirty diaper, you get to pass 00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:35.110 them off. Yes. Or if they're cranky or if they're 00:08:35.110 --> 00:08:38.610 cranky, you get to pass them off. Sure. And you 00:08:38.610 --> 00:08:40.730 don't have to worry about disciplining them. 00:08:40.929 --> 00:08:44.370 That's not your job anymore. Yep. I think the 00:08:44.370 --> 00:08:49.070 best part about being a parent, kind of building 00:08:49.070 --> 00:08:52.730 on what Ken said with respect to the authority 00:08:52.730 --> 00:08:57.509 influence is Transitioning making that transition 00:08:57.509 --> 00:09:00.129 sure because we were exactly the same in that 00:09:00.129 --> 00:09:03.429 like we were much stricter with our kids When 00:09:03.429 --> 00:09:06.370 they were younger than when they were older But 00:09:06.370 --> 00:09:08.690 I think we didn't have to be as strict with them 00:09:08.690 --> 00:09:11.110 when they were older because they had learned 00:09:11.110 --> 00:09:14.269 sure and making that transition and then coming 00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:18.350 out at the end and being friends with your kids. 00:09:19.090 --> 00:09:22.330 I think that's the ultimate is by the time they 00:09:22.330 --> 00:09:25.029 are grown and married, you want to be friends 00:09:25.029 --> 00:09:27.190 with them. Sure. So you want to go to the baseball 00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:30.429 game with them. You want to be able to spend 00:09:30.429 --> 00:09:32.629 time with them and just enjoy their company. 00:09:32.889 --> 00:09:35.860 Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:38.019 sort of for all of the parents right now who 00:09:38.019 --> 00:09:40.419 feel really in the trenches of it. Yeah. Yeah. 00:09:40.419 --> 00:09:42.759 It's a good thing to look forward to. There's 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.059 light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. Yeah, for 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:47.659 sure. For sure. What about for you, Ken? Favorite 00:09:47.659 --> 00:09:49.580 parts? I'm going to have to say almost ditto. 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:53.419 It's a wonderful thing to enjoy the grandchildren. 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:55.580 For example, yesterday we had all four grandchildren 00:09:55.580 --> 00:09:58.840 over and mom and dad's got their date night. 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:03.350 Sure. But but. Having having them together watching 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:06.649 how they play together sure stuff. It is is a 00:10:06.649 --> 00:10:10.929 delight and The thing is that because I am retired 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:14.549 and my wife was retired then also we Don't have 00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:16.590 to rush the way we did with their children sure 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:21.250 so it's not When they're there, I it's not like 00:10:21.250 --> 00:10:23.309 okay. I just finished work. I've got a rush get 00:10:23.309 --> 00:10:24.690 dinner on the table I've got to do all these 00:10:24.690 --> 00:10:29.059 things so yeah, so the The ability to schedule 00:10:29.059 --> 00:10:31.299 yourself and to really enjoy quality time with 00:10:31.299 --> 00:10:33.860 the grandchildren is there. Having said that, 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:37.840 I also, though, I think as much as I loved the 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:39.240 children when they were young, I still have a 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.039 very wonderful relationship with my children. 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.799 And we do spend time together. We go to activities 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:49.259 together. We spend vacations together. And even 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:50.919 my daughter even dropped in just to give me a 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.990 hug one day. It's just. There is no specific 00:10:54.990 --> 00:10:58.169 special time, but it's just how healthy that 00:10:58.169 --> 00:11:00.830 relationship is. It's wonderful. Yeah, yeah. 00:11:01.090 --> 00:11:03.570 No, that's that's really sort of encouraging 00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:09.029 to hear. OK, so then on the flip side of it, 00:11:09.409 --> 00:11:11.649 what are some of the challenges that you've experienced 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:13.830 as parents and and what are some of the ways 00:11:13.830 --> 00:11:15.429 that you think those challenges have helped to 00:11:15.429 --> 00:11:19.570 shape your life or or your faith? Well, I'm going 00:11:19.570 --> 00:11:22.490 to do. go away from my children to the person 00:11:22.490 --> 00:11:25.570 we were trying to foster. Sure. And that person 00:11:25.570 --> 00:11:29.549 had come from his relationship with his mother 00:11:29.549 --> 00:11:32.629 was very broken. Sure. It was very toxic. And 00:11:32.629 --> 00:11:36.690 and to see I think it's important lesson to learn 00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:40.090 that undoing damage takes a lot more effort than 00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:42.070 preventing it in the first place. Sure. And so 00:11:42.070 --> 00:11:45.500 that there was not. In that particular relationship, 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:47.820 there was not trust. There was definitely a lot 00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:51.139 of manipulation going on. And the relationship 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:53.759 was, whenever a conflict would come up, the conflict 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.740 resolution was establishing blame. It was not 00:11:56.740 --> 00:12:02.580 about true resolution. And so I think that having 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:06.500 seen that and experienced that, it's really important 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:10.100 to... to prevention is so much easier than cure. 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:13.519 Sure. And so to deal with the very toxic relationship 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.259 where there isn't layers of trust, there isn't 00:12:17.259 --> 00:12:20.039 levels of seeking. How do we fix this? Yeah. 00:12:20.059 --> 00:12:22.100 It's how do we establish blame? That's really, 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.379 really, really difficult to overcome. And I sure. 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.000 And I cannot say that it's been successful to 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.860 overcome in that relationship at all. Sure. Which 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:30.980 is very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 00:12:30.980 --> 00:12:34.629 really hard. Right. Because like. Yeah, especially 00:12:34.629 --> 00:12:38.610 when I think you're caring for someone that like 00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:42.009 you don't have that history with right that it's 00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:45.710 really hard to sort of step in and be Be the 00:12:45.710 --> 00:12:48.250 parent be the person that like can can really 00:12:48.250 --> 00:12:51.570 rebuild what is already broken. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately 00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:55.250 I think it's also important to mention that if 00:12:55.250 --> 00:12:57.590 you have those damage relationships the child 00:12:57.590 --> 00:13:00.100 will extend those damaged relationships to other 00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:02.559 people. Sure. And so the young man in this case 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.100 was involved in counseling. And when he was very 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:07.960 upset at his mother, that came out of the counselor. 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:14.159 Sure. And so that kind of thing was very damaging, 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.120 of course, for the relationship. How can the 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.840 counselor help him heal if what he's doing is 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:24.059 projecting his frustration and his anger at the 00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:28.750 counselor? Again, I just can't stress how important 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:31.490 prevention is. Take the time. Make sure things 00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:33.809 don't go sideways because once they've gone sideways, 00:13:33.990 --> 00:13:36.350 it's a lot more effort to fix it. Sure, sure. 00:13:36.549 --> 00:13:39.389 Yeah. And how would you say that like that experience 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:42.710 has like shaped your own life and faith in some 00:13:42.710 --> 00:13:46.070 way? Well, I think it's certainly done a huge 00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:50.919 amount for me to. To think about to think about 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.120 all my relationships not just those ones but 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.299 to think about all my relationships the importance 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.759 of Honesty the importance of integrity the importance 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:02.259 of vulnerability and being consistent and not 00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:05.759 being hypocritical. Yeah To see those things 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:07.620 and of course, that's also my police experience 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.240 because I had to intervene in some very violent 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.480 very dysfunctional family situations sure and 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.629 so So there's just all of those factors that 00:14:16.629 --> 00:14:21.289 that come in that that really I think all of 00:14:21.289 --> 00:14:23.289 the ways that we're being taught in the Bible 00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:27.210 how to have a good relationship Those things 00:14:27.210 --> 00:14:30.370 they're timeless and they're absolutely true 00:14:30.370 --> 00:14:32.649 and they are going to result in healthy relationships. 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:36.370 Okay. Yeah now Having said that I mean we don't 00:14:36.370 --> 00:14:38.590 have to stick strictly to the law like in Deuteronomy 00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:41.769 Which goes a little overboard in the disciplining, 00:14:42.110 --> 00:14:45.090 but yeah, I think that just Generally speaking, 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:47.490 as we're looking at those relationships, the 00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:49.750 importance of honesty, integrity, consistency 00:14:49.750 --> 00:14:52.610 can't be overstated. Yeah, leading with those 00:14:52.610 --> 00:14:55.070 values first and being like, OK, this is who 00:14:55.070 --> 00:14:58.370 I am. This is how I want to be. And yeah, exactly. 00:14:58.450 --> 00:15:01.950 Thank you for finishing. Yeah, for sure. What 00:15:01.950 --> 00:15:03.289 about for you, Bruce? What would you say some 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:07.769 of the challenging moments have been? I think 00:15:07.769 --> 00:15:13.659 for me, the biggest challenge is when for children 00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:16.159 when your child is going through a struggle sure 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.799 and You want to do everything you can to fix 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:26.139 it. Yep, but you can't and That's part of their 00:15:26.139 --> 00:15:28.320 growing up and that's part of their learning. 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.720 Yeah, and you can be there and you can support 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.879 them But you can't fix it. Yeah, and that's a 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:39.340 that's a real challenge. Mm -hmm And from a grandparent, 00:15:39.379 --> 00:15:44.759 it's just learning that Your child is the parent, 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:48.340 so when you try to give your one -year -old grandson 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:52.899 ice cream and his mother says no, you have to 00:15:52.899 --> 00:15:58.580 pay attention. Yes. That's an interesting dynamic 00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:04.700 when the child becomes the parent. You just have 00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:08.059 to respect boundaries. Sure. Yeah. I remember 00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:11.320 when my aunt became a grandmother. I remember 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.559 her saying at one point she was like, yeah, our 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:15.500 kids have kids. And so now we've learned all 00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:17.440 of the things that we apparently did wrong as 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.279 parents. Yeah, exactly. Right. But just different 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.000 moments, different times. Yeah. And it's interesting 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.539 because like parenting now is very different. 00:16:26.659 --> 00:16:29.879 Sure. It's a whole different world. It's a different 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.980 way. And right from the very beginning. Yeah. 00:16:32.259 --> 00:16:35.299 Like, what the heck is sleep training? You know, 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.100 we just put our kids to bed. Sure. But now they 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:40.980 now they're sleep training. And that's a that's 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:43.279 that's a new challenge because we have to understand 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.299 how things are done now. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:50.580 And how would you say some of those challenges 00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:57.700 have like shaped your life and faith? I threw 00:16:57.700 --> 00:17:05.170 it all. I don't understand how. people who do 00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:09.269 not have faith are able to cope with the challenges. 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:14.609 Sure. I think that's where there is so much family 00:17:14.609 --> 00:17:21.549 dysfunction because we have such a phenomenal 00:17:21.549 --> 00:17:26.769 example of what it means to be a father from 00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:31.910 our faith in God. And I think we just, if you 00:17:31.910 --> 00:17:35.019 don't have that, It must be it must be a real 00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:39.559 challenge. And I have I just I'm so glad that 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:43.079 I have it. Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.200 I think that it goes back to sort of what what 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:47.960 you were saying there about, you know, that we 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:49.720 have this example, we have our faith that grounds 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:51.940 us and what you were saying, Ken, you know, about 00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:54.180 like all of these values in scripture that like 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:56.759 faith that like shape us and help us to sort 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.339 of create functional families. And obviously, 00:17:59.500 --> 00:18:01.380 that doesn't mean that it works all of the time. 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.559 There are lots of families of faith that are 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:06.559 also dysfunctional in different ways. Right. 00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:09.359 But it gives us something to ground us. It gives 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:13.279 us something to to go back to, I think. Yeah. 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.299 And at least at least a model of what this should 00:18:16.299 --> 00:18:19.839 look like. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.920 So how has being a dad influenced your faith 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.539 or changed sort of your understanding of of God? 00:18:29.370 --> 00:18:34.730 Do you want to start us off again, Ken? I'm going 00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:36.150 to defer to Bruce just for a minute, just as 00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:38.250 I gather my thoughts. Sure, yeah, yeah. For sure. 00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:40.269 And I was going to defer to Ken if you asked 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:49.990 me. OK. OK, so I'll be on the hot seat. Yeah, 00:18:50.069 --> 00:18:57.750 are there any? Yeah. You know, kids disappoint 00:18:57.750 --> 00:19:03.680 you. Yep. And when our kids disappoint us, we 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:10.000 don't always react really well. Sure. But we 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.200 have to realize that we disappoint God. Well, 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.160 I was speaking personally, probably on a daily 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.319 basis. Sure. And yet God has this infinite forgiveness 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:23.259 and His infinite grace that He bestows on us. 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:29.690 Being a parent and feeling that disappointment 00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:36.769 sometimes, it just kind of like instills how 00:19:36.769 --> 00:19:40.569 great a gift God's grace and forgiveness is. 00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:44.630 Sure. I don't think I have anything else to say. 00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:47.109 No, no, no. Yeah, I think that's really profound, 00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:49.710 right? So you sort of said before, you know, 00:19:49.710 --> 00:19:52.589 we have this example of God as Father, God as 00:19:52.589 --> 00:19:55.519 parent that we sort of emulate, but then that 00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:00.839 also means that like, yeah, that God experiences, 00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:03.240 we experience the thing God, God experiences 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.380 and God's response to that, obviously, because 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:09.160 God is God, is so much greater and more perfect 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.940 and whole and loving. But it's yeah, it just 00:20:12.940 --> 00:20:15.440 puts our responses sort of into perspective. 00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:19.119 Yeah, yeah. You know, I think that if if we could 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.539 all respond the way God responds to these things. 00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:26.720 Wow, yeah, it'd be amazing to see what the world 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.019 would be like. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah for sure for 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:33.000 sure. Yeah Thanks for giving me a minute there 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.519 Bruce, I think that One of the things that we 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:39.940 are built by God to want a relationship with 00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:44.099 God and if we don't have that then we have unrealistic 00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:47.279 expectations Most likely of the people closest 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.680 to us. Sure. I have heard how many times going 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:55.150 to to weddings about how my spouse is supposed 00:20:55.150 --> 00:20:58.329 to complete me. Sure. Totally unrealistic expectation 00:20:58.329 --> 00:21:01.549 in my personal view. And I certainly would suggest 00:21:01.549 --> 00:21:05.470 in my professional career and dealing with some 00:21:05.470 --> 00:21:09.329 very disturbing situations that people have had 00:21:09.329 --> 00:21:12.390 very unrealistic expectations of spouses and 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:16.809 children or parents. And and I will actually 00:21:16.809 --> 00:21:19.410 say that I heard a mother once say that a child 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:23.170 should worship me only next to Jesus. I don't 00:21:23.170 --> 00:21:24.650 think that's a healthy relationship. I don't 00:21:24.650 --> 00:21:28.390 think that we can have. I think that we're destined 00:21:28.390 --> 00:21:31.730 to have or more likely to have unhealthy relationships 00:21:31.730 --> 00:21:34.509 when we don't have realistic expectations. And 00:21:34.509 --> 00:21:38.849 so if we expect other people to fulfill that 00:21:38.849 --> 00:21:42.490 longing that we have for relationship with with 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:47.059 Jesus, we are going to put. far too many demands 00:21:47.059 --> 00:21:49.640 on other people and expect them to fulfill us. 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:54.880 Or we're going to then, in that we're going to 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.059 expect our careers perhaps. Or we're going to 00:21:57.059 --> 00:21:59.400 expect something else to give us that fulfillment 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.640 that we know we're missing, that relationship 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:04.779 that we know should be there. And so then we 00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:08.359 start expecting that if I dedicate myself far 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.099 too much to my career. then of course that damages 00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:13.339 the family. If I dedicate myself far too much 00:22:13.339 --> 00:22:16.079 to accumulating wealth, that's going to damage 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:19.380 my important relationships. So I'm not sure if 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:21.079 that answers the question, but I think it's an 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:22.880 important point to bring out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.200 yeah, for sure. And I think that sometimes. Yeah, 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:28.019 so if we if we think of it as like we all have 00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:30.700 this like longing inside of us for something 00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.319 more for relationship. And as Christians, we 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.759 know that that's a longing for God. Right. But 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.799 I think sometimes people will be like, oh, if 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.559 I become a parent, that will fulfill that longing. 00:22:41.619 --> 00:22:43.700 Or sometimes kids are like, oh, no, my parent 00:22:43.700 --> 00:22:46.500 is supposed to fulfill that longing. Right. And 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:48.259 yeah, I think you're right. They're like, if 00:22:48.259 --> 00:22:51.119 we put too much pressure on on one particular 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.779 relationship, it it leads to that disappointment. 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.539 Um, yeah, and so needing to sort of go back to 00:22:56.539 --> 00:22:58.940 God and be like, this is, this is really where, 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:02.539 where we get that, that all that we need. Yeah. 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:08.299 Yeah, for sure. Um, okay. So as you think about, 00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:11.700 um, you know, your experience, your life as, 00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:14.859 as dads, as, as grandfathers, um, what is one 00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:16.440 piece of advice that you might need to have to 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:20.160 offer, uh, to other dads or to other grand dads? 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:27.720 I'm gonna start us off again, Bruce. Sure. Don't 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:32.180 be afraid to allow your children to experience 00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:38.000 disappointment at a young age. Okay. I think 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.460 Mick Jagger said it best, you can't always get 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:45.240 what you want. Sure. And that's something that 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.359 I think is really important. We live in a very 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:53.799 commercial society. Yep. If kids don't learn 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:58.299 that they don't always get what they want, I 00:23:58.299 --> 00:24:03.559 think that in the years in the future, that can 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:09.180 cause them problems that are unforeseen. And 00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:12.240 so, yeah, disappointment is not a bad thing at 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.259 a young age. In fact, I think it's good for children 00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:20.750 to learn disappointment. Sure. That's one thing 00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:27.130 and I guess my the biggest thing is Your kids 00:24:27.130 --> 00:24:32.470 are gonna disappoint you. Yep Take a beat count 00:24:32.470 --> 00:24:39.930 to ten. Yeah Don't overreact sure Because an 00:24:39.930 --> 00:24:43.089 overreaction is probably going to be much worse 00:24:43.089 --> 00:24:47.490 than not reacting sure Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. 00:24:47.509 --> 00:24:50.089 Yeah. I think that like the first bit that you 00:24:50.089 --> 00:24:51.589 were saying there about, you know, allowing kids 00:24:51.589 --> 00:24:55.230 to experience disappointment, I think is so important, 00:24:55.390 --> 00:24:58.289 but like so counter instinctual, I think. Yeah. 00:24:58.289 --> 00:25:00.269 Right. Absolutely. Because you start off by saying, 00:25:00.269 --> 00:25:02.589 I looked at this kid and I love them. Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:02.589 --> 00:25:05.170 My whole being. Right. So why would I want them 00:25:05.170 --> 00:25:08.470 to be sad? You want your kids to be happy all 00:25:08.470 --> 00:25:12.990 the time. Yeah. But I think that when they grow 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:17.809 up, that's an unrealistic. Sure. You know, God 00:25:17.809 --> 00:25:19.809 never promised us a rose garden. There's going 00:25:19.809 --> 00:25:22.009 to be challenges. There's going to be things 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:26.049 that go wrong. Yeah. And if they learn from a 00:25:26.049 --> 00:25:29.329 young age that things don't always go their way. 00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:33.539 Right. I think that's a very valuable lesson 00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.000 to learn. Sure. And not even just like that things 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.460 don't always go their way, but like then how 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:41.220 to cope with that. Exactly. Right. It's not just 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:43.279 learning that sometimes life sucks because we're 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.220 all just going to learn that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:45.220 --> 00:25:49.079 But learning, OK, when things fall apart, how 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.559 do I build resilience? How do I respond? How 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.579 do I care for myself and others in that space? 00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:59.849 Yeah. And resilience. Kids are resilient. We 00:25:59.849 --> 00:26:03.329 get much less resilient as we get older. Sure. 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:06.369 So at a young age, that resilience is almost 00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:09.210 built into them and it's easy to teach them that. 00:26:09.750 --> 00:26:13.869 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say, Ken? 00:26:14.089 --> 00:26:16.049 Well, first of all, I agree totally with what 00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:19.250 Ruth just said. And that when I was actually 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:23.509 involved as an umpire. Yeah in in t ball. Yes, 00:26:23.509 --> 00:26:26.430 um one coach got really upset with me when when 00:26:26.430 --> 00:26:29.750 a child got out at second Sure, and I said, I 00:26:29.750 --> 00:26:31.150 don't care if you leave them in I don't care 00:26:31.150 --> 00:26:33.529 if you want them if you want them to keep running 00:26:33.529 --> 00:26:35.690 the bases I don't care. It's it's not important, 00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:39.690 but I think um children need to learn In those 00:26:39.690 --> 00:26:41.990 kind of situations that it is possible to fail 00:26:41.990 --> 00:26:43.970 sure and that there is times when things aren't 00:26:43.970 --> 00:26:46.369 going to go exactly right and and to learn in 00:26:46.369 --> 00:26:49.609 that situation rather than perhaps later in life 00:26:49.609 --> 00:26:52.049 when the first time you're the first time that 00:26:52.049 --> 00:26:54.930 you're going to fail is not getting the job that 00:26:54.930 --> 00:26:56.609 you interviewed for. That's going to be devastating. 00:26:56.730 --> 00:26:59.930 Sure. And so I totally agree with what you said, 00:26:59.950 --> 00:27:04.609 but also on another point, I think I can't possibly 00:27:04.609 --> 00:27:08.269 underestimate what's the influence that the Internet 00:27:08.269 --> 00:27:11.910 is providing on children. Sure. And I think I 00:27:11.910 --> 00:27:16.109 probably didn't keep myself as aware as I should 00:27:16.109 --> 00:27:19.859 have. in regards to my children so their exposure 00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:23.180 what they could find on the internet and how 00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:25.960 to get around things and knowing that and also 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:29.579 I participated a bit in as a facilitator in a 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:31.880 parenting teens and tweens course at a previous 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.220 church and some of the horror stories that I 00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:37.460 heard about what was happening sure from teachers 00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:39.259 that were there present what was happening in 00:27:39.259 --> 00:27:41.160 the schoolyard when parents gave their child 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.150 a phone and then without any limits on it sure 00:27:44.150 --> 00:27:46.809 and so what they were able to to bring up on 00:27:46.809 --> 00:27:50.430 their phone so there is we can't be blind to 00:27:50.430 --> 00:27:54.190 that and I could be to some extent because of 00:27:54.190 --> 00:27:56.890 the time that I was a parent sure but that can't 00:27:56.890 --> 00:27:59.890 happen anymore people and so I really do support 00:27:59.890 --> 00:28:02.529 any legislation that's coming up to to somewhat 00:28:02.529 --> 00:28:05.210 restrict what's available but I I really think 00:28:05.210 --> 00:28:07.190 is an important lesson to other parents you've 00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:09.690 got Gotta keep an eye on what's happening and 00:28:09.690 --> 00:28:12.990 control it and be diligent about it. Sure. Yeah. 00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:15.569 Yeah. Yeah. And I think an important sort of 00:28:15.569 --> 00:28:21.150 reminder for all of us to be like praying for 00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:23.650 and supporting parents because there are all 00:28:23.650 --> 00:28:26.049 of these things that are coming up that like, 00:28:26.150 --> 00:28:28.470 yeah, just a whole new world, a whole new sort 00:28:28.470 --> 00:28:31.670 of set of issues to sort of think through. It's 00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:34.829 complicated. It sure is. Do we have time for 00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:38.700 me to add one more thing? Of course. Yeah. find 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:42.740 somebody who can have those conversations with 00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:50.420 your kids that you may be not able to. Shocker, 00:28:50.859 --> 00:28:52.779 there are conversations that parents shouldn't 00:28:52.779 --> 00:28:54.880 have with their kids. Sure, or that the kids 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:56.619 will just never want to have with their parents. 00:28:56.700 --> 00:28:59.039 Or the kids will never want to have with their 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.099 parents. And I was one of those people who, because 00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:05.339 I was a volunteer youth leader, parents would 00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:08.440 come to me and they'd say, what can we do about 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.259 this? And I'd say, leave it with me. And because 00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:14.599 of my relationship, I was able to have those 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.579 conversations with the kids that the parents 00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:22.339 couldn't. And I think parents need to have those 00:29:22.339 --> 00:29:25.680 resources available to them. And that probably 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.559 goes to the last question too. How can you help 00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:33.880 a dad? It's like... Yeah, be that resource to 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.720 be the person who can have those conversations 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.660 with the child or with the children or the youth 00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:43.980 or what have you. Yeah. Because really, kids 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:46.079 will listen to somebody who isn't their parent 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.200 much more than they will listen to their parent. 00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:51.559 Yep, for sure. For sure, for sure, yeah. Yeah, 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:54.279 so then, yeah, so this being a support, being 00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:57.039 the sort of secondary person who supports people's 00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.980 kids, praying for them. What are some other things 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:01.180 that people can do to sort of help support and 00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:04.339 care for dads in the world today? Okay, I'm gonna 00:30:04.339 --> 00:30:07.180 go to the granddad. Yeah, sure. And to some extent, 00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:12.279 grandmoms. Sure. It's difficult sometimes for 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.539 parents. I've seen myself do it. I've seen my 00:30:14.539 --> 00:30:17.700 children do it in that we can't Once you're a 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:19.859 parent, you can't turn it off. Yeah, and so you 00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:23.339 can't stop the caring and so It's going to come 00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:25.700 out maybe at inappropriate times that I'm trying 00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:28.740 to influence my child or or or help them sure 00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:31.599 and but it's coming from an area of That's what 00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:35.160 I've been doing for 30, 40, 50 years, whatever 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:38.599 the case may be. And it just can't, I just can't 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:40.220 turn it off. I can't, I'm not going to turn off 00:30:40.220 --> 00:30:41.720 the carrying. I'm not going to turn off the loading. 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.539 I'm not going to turn off. I just, it's not built 00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:48.700 in me to throw that switch. And so there are 00:30:48.700 --> 00:30:50.160 good ways to handle it, but understand that that's 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.700 going to happen with just about every parent 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:55.140 and grandparent. It's going to happen. Be prepared 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:58.940 for it. Extending some patience and grace. Yeah, 00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:00.700 it's just impossible to turn off. So there are 00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.000 some things that we're maybe going to offer advice 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.059 on that we shouldn't. Sure. But we can't help 00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:10.000 it. Sure. So be patient with us and show us some 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.480 grace. Yeah. Anything else you would add, Bruce? 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.700 Yeah, no, I think praying for parents. Yeah. 00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.440 And praying for the relationship of the parents. 00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:29.599 Being a parent is not the easiest thing and it's 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.940 a challenge and it can cause stress. Sure. And 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:37.579 so pray for the parents, pray for the children, 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.579 pray for the parents' relationship. Yeah. I think 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:43.180 that those are all things that are desperately 00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:46.140 needed. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I just thought 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:48.059 of one other thing that might be appropriate 00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.259 for some people is accountability partners. Sure. 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.019 There are things that you can't necessarily discuss 00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:58.319 with your spouse or with your children about 00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.539 how you're parenting, but you can certainly find 00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:03.619 somebody of your faith that that you can trust, 00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.119 that you can rely on, and it's going to give 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.240 you honest feedback. Yeah. And so if I'm trying 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.539 to improve how I'm doing at something, perhaps 00:32:10.539 --> 00:32:12.940 I've been too short tempered with a child or 00:32:12.940 --> 00:32:16.029 something like that. find somebody that you can 00:32:16.029 --> 00:32:19.750 trust and speak to and hold you accountable and 00:32:19.750 --> 00:32:27.069 in a very loving but honest way. Sure. And I 00:32:27.069 --> 00:32:29.710 think that that's an important lesson that if 00:32:29.710 --> 00:32:31.490 that resource is available, take advantage of 00:32:31.490 --> 00:32:33.869 it. Sure. And offer yourself up that you could 00:32:33.869 --> 00:32:37.809 be a you could be that that partner for somebody 00:32:37.809 --> 00:32:41.329 else. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No. Thank you so much, 00:32:41.490 --> 00:32:43.470 guys. You're very welcome. I think this has been 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:46.230 a really helpful conversation. Yeah, just get 00:32:46.230 --> 00:32:48.529 that insight into, you know, what is life like 00:32:48.529 --> 00:32:51.650 for dads and granddads and what are some of the 00:32:51.650 --> 00:32:53.089 challenges that you're facing, but also some 00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:55.990 of the joys that come with just being part of 00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:58.890 a family. And thank you for tuning in to this 00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:01.269 week's episode of Trinity Talks. Whether you 00:33:01.269 --> 00:33:05.250 are a granddad, dad, or a parent of another kind 00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:07.410 or not a parent at all, I pray that you have 00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:10.349 been encouraged in this conversation. and that 00:33:10.349 --> 00:33:13.450 you are able to find ways to care for, to pray 00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:17.009 for, to encourage and support kids and parents 00:33:17.009 --> 00:33:19.130 that are in your life. And we'll see you again 00:33:19.130 --> 00:33:19.589 next week.