Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am sitting
down here with two gardeners who are part of
our Trinity family and we're going to talk more
about gardening, about growing some flowers.
Myself, I grow some vegetables and yeah, just,
you know, how all of these bits connect to our
faith and of course to this growing season sermon
series that we're doing here at Trinity. So thank
you so much for joining me, folks. So maybe I'll
just get you to start by doing some introductions.
So you can just say your name and just tell us
a little bit about your sort of history and experience
with gardening or with farming. Maybe we'll start
right here. OK, well, I'm a fairly basic gardener.
I'm a hobby gardener, I guess you could say.
My garden is fairly small. I live in Milton.
So, you know, we try and create a garden that
brings, like, peace and looks lovely. And a lot
of our friends comment on, you know, how peaceful
they feel in our garden, which is quite an achievement.
Yeah. So that's basically at the level I operate
at. And then, in addition, I am part of the crew
that helps to maintain the cemetery. Okay. Yeah.
So another sort of peaceful space. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. I think that's a really good theme to have
going, you know, peaceful, calm, lovely little
gardens. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and my background
is I was born and raised on a farm. Okay. And
a very old -fashioned farm, mixed farm, as we
called them back then. Okay. And don't think
many of them are in existence now. Okay. But
mixed from the standpoint that we had all sorts
of livestock, like cattle and pigs and sheep
and, you know, chickens and ducks and geese and
that type of thing. Yeah, a little bit of everything.
Yes, indeed. And then grew the crops to feed
them. Okay. And huge vegetable gardens. that
would do us through the winter. Okay. That was
just a given. Sure. Okay. And my grandpa was
always very proud of his turnips. Okay. Were
they particularly large or just delicious? In
his mind, and I don't know how true it is, they
were hard to grow and to grow good ones. So he
grew good turnips. Okay. Well, there you go.
I've never tried to grow turnips, so I don't
know how hard or easy they are, but I'll take
his word for it. Yeah. Yeah. And so for myself,
my dad had a... pretty large vegetable garden
um growing up and then now i actually also live
in milton um yeah and i'm part of a community
garden there so i just have a small plot um but
last year was able to grow some tomatoes and
peppers and spinach mostly um and trying it again
this year and we'll see how that goes okay so
yeah cool so when you think about you know gardening
and farming what sort of prompted you to want
to do that, like to want to start your own garden?
Or what sort of motivates you to keep doing that?
Well, my parents. I used to live and was brought
up in Guyana in South America. So my parents
had a very large garden. And they planted, you
know, they had big trees and they had ponds.
lawns and all kinds of things. Fruit trees, we'd
sit in the mango tree and pluck the ripe fruit
and eat it there and then as kids, you know.
And they had a lot of animals too. They had monkeys,
dogs, chickens, rabbits. The dog's main aim was
to try and get the monkey. Ah, okay. And the
monkey's main aim was to... To avoid the dog.
Avoid the dog. Okay. So he had a little chain
that would go up and down to his house and see
the dog coming and he'd be up there, you know.
Yes. So that was my main aim, my main inspiration.
And my three brothers also, they all love gardening
and that's the same thing. Okay. Stems from my
parents. Okay, yeah. I assume that that sort
of experience is probably quite different than
your experience now, like farming in South America
versus in Milton. Yes. Yes. Quite different.
OK. Yeah. Tropical fruits and so on. My parents
did it mainly and I was just looking at them
and they showed me a little bit about the kinds
of things that they did. Sure. But then I went
to live in England and a similar climate to here,
I guess. Right. And started there on my own,
you know, and got a house and continued over
here. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And what about
you, Iris? Well, I think growing up on a farm,
you just have a natural tendency to want things
to grow. And I start always from the idea that
plants want to grow. Sure. And I just have to
help them along. Okay. And so I love my garden.
It's a great hobby of mine. And so it's just,
but it's... coming from a farm and just really
appreciating nature and beauty and the growth.
Sure. Yeah. Sure. So it's bringing a bit of the
farm into the country, maybe. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think for both of you,
your growing up experience of gardening or farming
is a little bit different than sort of what you're
doing now on a different scale and a different
location. But are there lessons or like things
that you think you learned when you were a kid
that sort of, you know, continue to be true,
that continue to help you in what you're doing
now? Lots of themes, I guess. Okay, sure. Things
that I've learned from gardening. Excuse me.
And one of them is, I'll continue this piece.
Yeah. Motif, peace and joy. Yeah. I have a little
quote here from a guy called William Alexander.
He wrote a book called The $64 Tomato. Okay.
Or Tomato. Yes. And he wrote, things that I remember,
witnessing childbirth, finding myself standing
absolutely alone before Da Vinci's Last Supper.
and planting potatoes on a perfect spring morning.
Okay. And so that brings to mind an old Chinese
proverb that says, plant a garden, feed your
soul. Kind of that kind of theme. And it's the
kind of thing that I hope that I get from gardening,
that kind of peace. Sure, sure. Yeah. I think
there were a lot of... lifetime lessons that
I learned by growing up on a farm. And one of
them is resourcefulness. And because when you
live on a farm, there's not a store right down
the... So you learn to make do. And so that resourcefulness
is very much a part of growing up on a farm and
experiencing that. Also hard work and perseverance.
And actually, growing up on a farm, you should
learn patience. I'm still working on that. Sure.
But it's, yeah, so it's just a marvelous way
to, I've always been so happy that I grew up
on a farm. And like you grow up, you move to
the city, you learn about the city. Don't grow
up on the farm. You never learn about that whole
farming part of it. And I think people have a
very romantic view of the farm. And I just have
great appreciation for it in all its beauty and
all its rawness. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, yeah, I think I like what you said there,
you know, that people sometimes have a romantic
view of farms. They're like this nice place to
get away. And sure. They are. But when you live
there, it's also a little more than that, right?
It's all that hard work. Yeah, there's mucking
out the stables. Right. And teaching you patience.
Well, but I've got to go back for that. More
time. More time. Right, yes. I think it takes
us a lifetime to learn the patience that we need
for our lifetime, something like that. Like a
lot of people, if something goes wrong with a
plant, they'll want to throw it out and buy a
new one. Sure. Like winter before last, one of
our emerald cedars splits over the winter with
the weight of the snow. Two main branches split.
So do I cut this down or do I try and... heal
it. Looked up research on the internet and bought
some tape or got some tape on Amazon that, you
know, got the branches together and sort of tied
it round and then put cord round the outside
so the branches came together. And now it's one
of the healthiest of the cedars we've got. It's
survived and thrived. You have to have a little
bit of patience to wait for a year or two to
see the fruits of that as opposed to chopping
it down and putting a new one. Right. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's all of that effort
into the, like, long -term investment of things,
right? Like the point you say, you know, if a
plant is unhealthy, well, I don't know how to
fix it. We'll just throw it out and get a new
one, right? Yeah. But, like, no, there's something
about nurturing. a plant that, yeah, or, or anything,
a child, a pet, whatever it is like that, pouring
that care into, into that thing that. Build,
feed your soul. I also think that's part of the
resourcefulness. Like on a farm, if you gave
up every time something happens, like you wouldn't
even get the, like, cause there's usually too
much rain in the spring. So you can't get on
the land. And then when you do get on the land,
it turns into a drought. And there's all these
things that can happen, but you have to persevere.
And sometimes it wipes it out, but very rarely
if you just keep going, keeping at it. Yeah.
Yeah. And that caring theme, of course, is something
I was going to also mention. Yeah. And you're
giving me cues here. Glad to help. I found that
with plants that need the most care and attention,
the ones that have been most challenging are
the ones that I tend to form a bond with. If
that doesn't sound a little too weird. Sure.
And so to the extent that I give them names.
Okay, this is good. One example is we had a magnolia
in a previous house that was plagued by scale
insects, magnolia scale insects. And I never
knew what they were. I stood under it one day
and I could feel this slight shower. And I thought,
what is this? And I looked up and there was only
a little. bumps and things on the branches and
twigs. And I looked it up and apparently it's
a scale insect sucking the sap out of the tree.
Okay. And ejecting it. And if you just leave
them, the tree will die. Sure. So it took me
like three years of treatments, spring and...
during the summer and in the fall with things
like sulfur and horticultural oil and spraying
the little pests off with the hose and that kind
of thing. And Maggie, is the name I gave the
magnolia tree, rewarded us with blossoms. You
wouldn't believe, these reached up to the bedrooms
on the second floor. You could look out of the
bedroom and see this sea of pink. in the spring.
And it was just amazing. So we had quite a bond,
Maggie and me. I hope my wife wasn't too jealous.
And now you've cued me into a little story. This
is working. When our nieces and nephews were
very young, I used to always say that I talked
to my plants, and that's why they did so well.
So my niece... was married, this is over 20 years
ago now, and she gave everybody at the wedding
a little coffee cup with one little sprig in
it that was a spruce tree, literally the size
of your finger. And so I came home and I planted
it, and I moved it several times, but now this
is a big bush. And because we live on a small
lot, of course, I've kept a cup down or it'd
be covering the lot. And so I took a picture
of it, just this. recently and sent it to her
and it's this lovely bush. And she said, I bet
you talk to that plant a lot. I thought it was
so cute because she remembered me saying that.
Yeah, I think that the bit that you were saying,
you know, the book that's $64 tomato or something
like that, this made me think about, you know,
conversations that I'll sometimes have with other
gardeners in the community garden talking about,
you know, the cost of buying all of the vegetable
plants and seeds and things like that. And you
can always do this, you know, cost analysis of
like, did i get my my money's worth in vegetables
out of these plants and sometimes you do and
sometimes you don't but i think for me it's that
that's one sort of analysis but that's actually
not really what i'm doing it for it's nice if
i can get you know a pot of soup tomato soup
out of my vegetables or that sort of thing but
but it's really more about an excuse to get outdoors
and and a place where yeah i can be like tending
something and it's exciting like i i went back
to my garden yesterday to plant a couple of tomato
plants and i was like oh look all of my spinach
is like up and like there's like visible leaves
there that i could eat right like that's that's
exciting yeah even just putting seeds in the
lawn as simple as that you see these little baby
seedlings coming up you know yeah it's rewarding
you know and that That's the caring, I guess,
measuring clock, right? Yeah, yeah. Are there
any other ways that you would say your experience
in gardening has sort of helped to shape your
life or your values or that sort of thing? I
think I think more of, like, when I think of
my gardening now, it's pure joy. Yeah. But I
think it really did shape my life growing up
on a farm. Sure. And one of the things I'd say
about that is that Like when you're on a farm
of that nature, the type of farm, as I say, they're
all big now, much, much larger. But at that time,
it didn't matter how young you were, there was
always a job that somebody could do. And like
I can remember, like at five years of age, you're
old enough to carry the water to your dad or
whoever who was doing the haying. And so there's
always a job. And you felt a part of it. And
sometimes it might have been nicer not to feel
like such a part of it. But basically, there
was always something. And you were expected to
do it, but there was a reward in that. And I
think that's a lifelong business of strong, strong
work ethic. probably can be almost too strong
at times. Sure. Yeah. Sure. It's a very strong
work ethic that comes from that. Yeah. And also,
I think that sense of community and like doing
a thing together. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. When
I was growing up, like we had at that time. Like
this is way back, okay. But you had a thrashing
machine, and our family had a thrashing machine,
and then there were two other families that didn't
have, so we would all get together to do the
harvest. Okay. So there was always that joining
together of doing things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It
was very community. For sure, for sure, yeah.
And I guess simply getting close to nature. I
mean, it's a fairly obvious one. You know, gardening
is part of nature, right? Mm -hmm. And so...
You know, just being out in it, it lifts the
spirits. And, you know, things like we see wasps
as things to be avoided. Sure. We almost despise.
But then, like, occasionally we have a little
fountain in our backyard. And occasionally you
see a wasp settling down on the edge of the fountain
drinking. Yeah. And you think, wow, this is magical,
you know. And the word magic. You think it's
all nature, it's all part of nature. I always
think that you look at stuff like this, and God
is our creator. I just can't imagine people looking
at this stuff and not believing in God. Oh, absolutely.
As you say, watching those little bees drink
the water, or something as simple as that. The
other day I was looking out my window, and a
cardinal... was feeding, it was a male cardinal,
and it was feeding its young on the branch. And
I'd never seen that before, a cardinal, and it
was just wonderful. And I thought, oh, isn't
that just the most beautiful thing? Sure. And
so I think being close to nature like that, you
stop and you look at that type of stuff and realize
what a miracle all of that stuff is. Yeah. Yeah.
So I think that connects really nicely. Like
when you think about... gardening and and your
faith like are there ways that that you've seen
some like connections there ways that you know
your faith has informed your approach to gardening
or gardening has sort of enriched your faith
in some way um yeah do you want to start us off
anthony um yes uh i see gardening as kind of
a manifestation of god's work in our world okay
yeah and uh Again, I'm going to quote somebody
else. Sure. I have to read. Frank Lloyd Wright,
you know, famous architect, right? He wrote,
study nature, love nature, stay close to nature.
It will never fail you. And if you substitute
God for nature, study God, love God, stay close
to God. He will never fail you. He will never
fail you. Right. And, you know, to me, I see
it's just. A lot of people say they use the phrase,
you know, nature is my church. It's a well -used
phrase, and I really feel that, actually. Going
out in nature, you get that sense that you're
among God's work. Sure, yeah. I think also, like,
one of the fruits we always want is peace and
joy. And I'm not sure there's any place that
I feel more peace and joy than just that oneness.
than when I'm working, digging in the soil. And
like I'm one that loves to just get right in
there and it gets harder and harder to get down
at it, but still. Sure. And so I think that that's
part of it. And like there's just miracles around
you all the time. And I would see that as like
God's miracle. Sure. Yeah. So I think that that
definitely brings you close. And, you know, I
was taken with Rob saying about, you can hardly
open a place in the Bible where there isn't something
about. And so I was reading this morning in Old
Testament, Minor Prophet Haggai. Haggai? Thank
you. And even there, it was saying about seeds.
And so it is all through it. And so that's very
much a part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah. And one of the things that I find is that
nature teaches you so much in the way of faith.
And one example I'll give is to do with discrimination
and race. Okay. And so it's an old story. You
may have heard of it. If a child asks you, why
is it that there's so many people who look so
differently in this world? Sure. Or why is it
that... Why can't everybody look like me? What
you can say to them is that, well, if you had
a garden, would you prefer to have a garden with
flowers of just one color? Everywhere you looked,
there was this one color in your garden. Or would
you prefer to have a garden where you had lots
of colors, red, yellow, purple, orange, white,
all kinds of colors? And usually they'll say,
I prefer the colorful garden. And you say, that's
just what God has done with the world. Yeah.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I often just think it's
such a blessing. I mean, God could have made
this world black and white. Sure. You know, but
look at all the color. And the other thing that
I guess comes from a farm, too, is I have such
appreciation of the changing of the seasons.
Like, I feel sorry for people that don't live.
They don't get all four seasons? They don't get
all four seasons. Yes. Somebody from Barbados
was disagreeing with me that the other day. But
anyway, yeah. But yeah, so it's like every spring,
like, isn't that a miracle? Like you look out
at the world right now around us, like you just
have to go back a couple months and that was
nothing there. It was gray and covered with snow
or whatever. Yeah. So like it's a miracle every
year. And I've lived through a few seasons and
it still seems like a miracle to me. Sure. Yeah.
And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other bit that
comes to mind for me is just like in the practicalities
of like caring for plants and like getting to
know different things. Like I remember last year
was sort of my first. independent foray into
vegetable gardening. And I planted some peas
and I planted them all. And then as they started
coming up, the instructions are, of course, to
sort of, you know, thin them out so that they
all get enough space. And I was like, that's
hard to do. pea looks so healthy. I can just
leave it right in. How can I kill this pea? Exactly.
Yes. But by the end of July, my peas had taken
over and were falling over on top of my onions.
And then my onions didn't grow because they were
covered by my pea plants. And I was like, oh,
well, maybe, maybe I should slow down. Maybe
I should follow the instructions, you know? And
yeah, just that sense of like, yeah, being attentive
to what each plant needs and the pruning out
process. Right. And sometimes we think about
that, like in our spiritual lives too, where
we're like, ah, God is, God is pruning us. This
is a metaphor that people use sometimes when
you're going through a hard time and it's like,
oh yeah, this is actually. beneficial this is
this is important even though it's hard right
i could even take that uh kyla to thinking in
terms of service like if you just keep adding
on yep and and not sort of pruning out what you're
doing in service sure that can affect everything
around you too. Yeah. Yeah. In a negative way.
For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I pruned
out some of my peas this year. Well done. Hopefully
I get a better, a better harvest. Yeah. So we've
sort of said there are lots of different stories,
lots of places in scripture where farming or
seeds or gardening sort of metaphors come up.
Are there any particular passages or stories
that sort of stand out to you folks? Well, the
obvious one is the Garden of Eden. Yeah. Right?
So, and again, I have to quote because I'm not
too good at quotes. That's all right. Remembering
quotes. Genesis 2, 15, the Lord took the man
and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it
and take care of it. So that's a very important
to me lesson for us all that we are here to take
care. of the earth we're custodians of nature
and our gardens are like many pieces of paradise
gardens of eden and we can take care of our own
little bit and that's a start but the whole world
is going through crises of you know the climate
change and that kind of thing and we really have
to do better sure yeah Yeah. Yeah. I think it's
really important. You know, we go back to the
very beginning and God, what is God's job for
humanity? It's to be gardeners, right? It's to
be stewards of the earth. And so I wonder sometimes
if that's like part of like what makes us human
is that, that maybe not necessarily the tendency
towards gardening specifically, but to like nurture
and to care and all those sorts of things, whether
that's plants or animals or people. Yeah. Yeah.
I think just to follow up on that a little bit.
So there's the Garden of Eden where we're told
to take care of. Then the curse comes. Yes. Where
we're going to work it by the sweat of our brow.
And that's all part of the fallen world and what
we see. But that's the, like gardening isn't
always just flowers and so on. It's like the
sweat of the brow. But that's a metaphor in life,
that the joy and the peace, but also the eating
the hard work. And like nature, generally, it's
not all, as you say, sweetness and light. Because,
you know, disasters that strike us, some of it
made by humans, you know, volcanoes, storms.
that can affect so many people, rip them out
of their homes and so on, the tragedies. We have
to respect nature and its power. To go back to
what I said at the beginning, I think that growing
up on a farm, I think that's what it taught me,
was the beauty of nature, but also the rawness,
and it needs to be appreciated. And respected.
And I think that, yeah. If I may, one of the
Bible verses that, because this caused me to
think about the Bible verse, and of course there's
so many, the sowing and so on. But one that came
to me that I thought was really good, it comes
from Paul when he's in the first Corinthians
chapter three, where he's talking about, he's
like reprimanding the Corinthians and calling
them immature and so on and so forth. And then
there's this verse six where he says, I planted
the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been
making it grow. And I was thinking about that.
And no matter how good of a gardener you are
or farmer, you can do all the things to help
that seed grow. But the magic and miracle of
the seed actually growing, that's God. And the
same when we're evangelizing or trying to bring
people to Christ, we can plant the seed. We can
even irrigate it and water it. But nothing's
going to happen without the miracle of God. Right.
And so to me, that was just such a wonderful
reminder of, yes, the agricultural part of that,
but also the depth of the spiritual part of that.
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting to
hear these different reflections, because I think
one of the things that's standing out to me is
just like, how... this like experience with getting
your hands in the dirt with watching plants grow,
which is like, is a lesson in how God works.
Right. And is a lesson in mystery and miracle
and like these things that are really hard sometimes
to grasp or like hard to put words to, but we
can see it unfolding. Right. When you put. A
little seed in the dirt and then all of a sudden
you have a plant and then all of a sudden later
you have a flower or a fruit from it, right?
It's amazing. But isn't that what you said there,
Kyla, is right in that we can see logically what
part of it is there, but there's the mystery
of it. And that's the mystery of our faith as
well. We can see part of it makes sense. It's
logical and so on. But there's such a mystery
to it. Yeah, for sure. I think the other sort
of little story or sort of passage in scripture
that keeps coming back to me at times is Jesus
is sort of teaching about, you know, he says,
there'll be all kinds of false teachers that
show up at different points. And how do you know
a false teacher from, from a true teacher, from
someone who speaks the truth? And he says, you
know, by their fruit. Yeah. Right. Which. is
a really helpful metaphor for me because I'm
really bad at identifying trees particularly,
but like even, even other plants sometimes I'm
like, I think this is that, but maybe not, but
you know, an acorn, but I know an acorn when
I see it or I know a mango or an apple or whatever
it is. Right. And, and yeah, so you will know
by its fruit. Right. And, and so, yeah, sometimes
we have to sort of let things grow, let things
be and see. what comes out of it, right? And
then decide. Do we do we take that on? Do we
cut that down? Do we? Yeah. What do we do? Very
much brings in that parable or when Jesus cursed
the fig tree. Right. Which is a very confusing
one. It is. Yes. But part of that, it had no
fruit. It just had leaves. It looked good, but
there was no fruit on it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. Are there
any other sort of bits from scripture or sort
of pieces of your faith that you think sort of
have helped you? navigate this this gardening
journey or that where they have sort of enriched
one another well it's an ongoing process and
sure i was heartened to hear you say about the
you know by their fruit you shall know them this
applies to nature and to people right and the
people who influence us and you see in the world
the leaders in the world yeah by their fruit
you shall know them it's the same with nature
as with people such wisdom in the bible yeah
And you mentioned about the mystery. Without
mystery, there would be no faith. And it's all,
in a way, a mystery. We just don't know. We know
so little. One of my family mottos is, nothing
in life is certain, which can be taken in all
kinds of ways, like half a dozen different interpretations.
And one of them is, don't believe you know everything.
Don't believe you know it all. There's a mystery
to everything. And Albert Einstein said this,
you know, the greatest thing in the world, he
believes, is mystery. And it's there throughout
our faith. Yeah. Yeah, and I just think that
the more that we are in touch with creation at
every level, Like right now, I don't know if
you've been observing in the sky, but Venus and
Jupiter are very close together. And they're
actually supposed to come together tonight or
tomorrow night. Last night they were still quite
a distance. And the sky has been so beautiful.
You could see it. And again, that's all part
of God's creation and nature and the wonders
of all this. And in our faith, there's just so
many wonders. Yeah. I think it's, it's so cool
to sort of go back and think God is such a God
of mystery, such a God of wonder. And you know,
this doesn't mean that we can't study and like
figure things out, right? Like that's all part
of faith too. But like at a certain point you
come back to God is all about the mystery. God
is too big for us to actually understand and
put into a box and figure out. Right. And I think,
yeah, creation reveals that to us and the things
that surprise us and the things we. Can't understand.
So it's doing what we can do. Yep. And this is
going to be an admonishment for people who buy
flowers and don't water them. Yes, yes. Because
I also have, growing up on a farm, have this
thing about waste. Sure, sure. So you're going
to buy them, water them. Yes, that's good. So
doing what we can, but then all the rest is in
God's hands. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah,
well, thank you so much, folks. Yeah, and thank
you for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity
Talks. Whether you are a gardener or not, whether
you have experience on a farm or not, maybe you
can try planting something. Maybe you can try
finding some place to nurture growth. And may
that be a space of joy. and peace, but also mystery
and wonder for you that draws you deeper into
connection with creation and of course with Christ.
And we will see you again next week.