WEBVTT 00:00:03.089 --> 00:00:05.710 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:09.050 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and I'm really 00:00:09.050 --> 00:00:12.009 excited because I have three very special guests 00:00:12.009 --> 00:00:16.089 with me today who also all have a connection 00:00:16.089 --> 00:00:19.410 to World Vision Canada. And actually, Trinity 00:00:19.410 --> 00:00:22.510 Church has been working with World Vision Canada 00:00:22.510 --> 00:00:25.390 in lots of different ways since about the 1980s. 00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:28.530 And in that time, especially in the last few 00:00:28.530 --> 00:00:30.989 years, we've had this really special connection 00:00:30.989 --> 00:00:34.250 with Honduras. and with the community of Nueva 00:00:34.250 --> 00:00:37.170 Frontera, where Trinity has been part of the 00:00:37.170 --> 00:00:40.549 Chosen program. And so many families and children 00:00:40.549 --> 00:00:44.170 have been sponsored and been impacted by that 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:47.939 work. But yeah, we also have these three wonderful 00:00:47.939 --> 00:00:50.740 folks and a very special sort of personal connection 00:00:50.740 --> 00:00:54.679 to Trinity as both Dave Toyson and Michael Messenger 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:57.799 call Trinity their church home. So I'm so excited 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.719 to be joined by you folks and by Allison, the 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.560 current president and CEO of World Vision Canada. 00:01:03.740 --> 00:01:05.900 So thank you so much for joining me, folks. Great 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:08.000 to be here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, so maybe. 00:01:08.250 --> 00:01:10.709 We'll just do some really brief introductions. 00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:13.269 First, you can just say your name, sort of what 00:01:13.269 --> 00:01:15.849 your experience with World Vision has been. So 00:01:15.849 --> 00:01:18.069 maybe we'll start here. Yeah, thanks. I'm Michael 00:01:18.069 --> 00:01:21.189 Messinger, and my wife Yvonne and I call Trinity 00:01:21.189 --> 00:01:24.049 home. So we have been here for a number of years, 00:01:24.129 --> 00:01:27.890 and we live in Oakville. Okay. at World Vision 00:01:27.890 --> 00:01:30.510 in one role or another for 30 years, including 00:01:30.510 --> 00:01:34.010 most recently a CEO about a year ago. So I'm 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:36.750 about to pass it over to Allison as my successor. 00:01:37.030 --> 00:01:40.340 Awesome. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I'm Allison Alley. 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:42.780 It's a joy to be with you today. My husband, 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:44.819 Tommy, and I live in St. Catharines, Ontario 00:01:44.819 --> 00:01:47.780 with our two teenage daughters. And God called 00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:50.219 me to serve as the CEO of World Vision Canada 00:01:50.219 --> 00:01:52.840 just over a year ago. So it's been the privilege 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.780 of my life to follow after Michael. And maybe 00:01:55.780 --> 00:01:57.620 I won't say your name. You can bring your own 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:00.099 introduction. So thanks for having me. Yeah, 00:02:00.099 --> 00:02:01.920 no, thank you for being here. Yeah, go ahead, 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:08.419 Dave. Well, let's see. I started. With World 00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:12.699 Vision in the US in 1973. Okay. And that's all 00:02:12.699 --> 00:02:15.500 I've done my whole life. Okay. Wow. I've been 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:18.960 in Australia, US, and then here in Canada. And 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:21.219 then here in Canada. Okay. And what years were 00:02:21.219 --> 00:02:26.719 you CEO in Canada? Let's see. I started in 1980. 00:02:30.139 --> 00:02:32.879 81, I think. Okay. Something like that. Something 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.000 like that. And CEO in the 90s. CEO through the 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:40.259 90s. Okay. Awesome. Cool. Yeah. So I think it's 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:41.900 really cool to have all of this sort of history 00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:45.439 building on each other. This is the first time, 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:47.020 by the way, we're having a conversation together. 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.780 Yeah. Very cool. Thanks for bringing us together. 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.599 I mean, we've talked together. Sure. Yeah, that's 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:56.939 awesome. Yeah. So maybe, Allison, as I sort of 00:02:56.939 --> 00:02:59.439 said, Trinity's really had this partnership with 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:01.919 Honduras, with Nueva Frontera specifically. Can 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.460 you just tell us, you know, from from your sort 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:06.099 of point of view, like what has been the impact 00:03:06.099 --> 00:03:08.949 of that partnership? You know, it's interesting. 00:03:09.030 --> 00:03:11.330 I think of the video that we saw this morning 00:03:11.330 --> 00:03:14.770 or you'll see next if you haven't tuned in with 00:03:14.770 --> 00:03:18.750 Pastor Rob and Tony, right, who works for World 00:03:18.750 --> 00:03:21.310 Vision Honduras and the depth of relationship 00:03:21.310 --> 00:03:23.909 and friendship and shared experience that was 00:03:23.909 --> 00:03:26.889 just representative of what happens when you 00:03:26.889 --> 00:03:31.930 bring two communities together who are praying 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:34.330 for one another and encouraging one another and, 00:03:34.330 --> 00:03:39.580 you know, playing one. significant part in fueling 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:41.919 the vision that this community has right for 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:43.599 their own children and their own families. And 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.039 so the impact, I would say, has been far reaching. 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:50.780 In ways that are beyond our imagine. Sure. And 00:03:50.780 --> 00:03:54.340 will be enduring far beyond, you know, the partnership 00:03:54.340 --> 00:03:56.599 as we just heard or you'll hear later, right? 00:03:56.620 --> 00:03:59.139 Comes to a close. So it's the relationship. It's 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:01.699 the emotional impact of knowing that people care 00:04:01.699 --> 00:04:02.960 for you. They're praying for you. They're cheering 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.419 you on. And practically on the ground, the life 00:04:05.419 --> 00:04:08.080 -saving and life -transforming impact is remarkable. 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:10.620 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think like both of those 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:12.400 pieces are really sort of important, right? That 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:16.029 it's, it is. a very practical partnership, but 00:04:16.029 --> 00:04:19.009 it is that emotional, spiritual, relational partnership 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:22.269 too, I think is what makes it so powerful. Yeah. 00:04:22.730 --> 00:04:25.769 So yeah, you said you're sitting down here with 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:28.850 these two leaders who've been sort of part of 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:32.449 World Vision in the past and yeah, leading through 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:35.449 a lot of changes and now you coming into this 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:38.370 role. What would you say are some of the biggest 00:04:38.370 --> 00:04:41.110 challenges for you in sort of leading an organization 00:04:41.110 --> 00:04:45.540 like World Vision today? you often preach about 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:48.360 something that you need, right? And so certainly 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.699 today when I talked about just like everything 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:53.420 happening everywhere all the time and the sense 00:04:53.420 --> 00:04:56.079 of overwhelm, and yet what does God call us to, 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.779 right? The one, the next step. So for me, really 00:04:58.779 --> 00:05:02.300 practically in any given moment, there is a lot 00:05:02.300 --> 00:05:05.160 to consider, a lot to do. There's urgency, lots 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.199 of different stakeholders. We work in over a 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.980 hundred countries, right? And yet, you know, 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:14.560 my role and the challenges is to be present in 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:17.279 the one moment, to be present in the one meeting, 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:19.680 right? To be here and nowhere else right now. 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.740 And to not just be used by God, but to be attentive 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:25.519 to what He would have for me in those everyday 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:29.490 moments. So it sounds maybe... high level, but 00:05:29.490 --> 00:05:31.370 it really is one of the more challenging things 00:05:31.370 --> 00:05:32.930 and where God has been meeting me in this season. 00:05:33.050 --> 00:05:35.269 Yeah, for sure. Right. Cause there's so many 00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:38.310 priorities. Yeah. So are there ways that you 00:05:38.310 --> 00:05:41.449 think like you've been able to sort of help focus 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:43.490 yourself in that? Yeah. You know, one of the 00:05:43.490 --> 00:05:45.649 practices that I started, so I have a, what's 00:05:45.649 --> 00:05:48.089 called a personal rule of life, which is basically 00:05:48.089 --> 00:05:50.189 like pre -deciding how you want to spend your 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:52.069 time to ensure that you're rooted in the Lord 00:05:52.069 --> 00:05:54.930 and your relationships are prioritized and you 00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:57.370 know, you're staying whole and well as a whole 00:05:57.370 --> 00:05:59.660 human being. And practically to your question, 00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:02.699 I practice silence in the morning. I get up real 00:06:02.699 --> 00:06:06.300 early. I light a candle and I sit and work to 00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:09.199 empty out my mind and the stress of what may 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.259 come and give it to the Lord and be open to what 00:06:12.259 --> 00:06:15.139 he may receive. And I find it, it's one small 00:06:15.139 --> 00:06:18.379 practice that just helps me be present and to 00:06:18.379 --> 00:06:20.860 empty of my worry. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.139 that's super helpful to just have that moment 00:06:23.139 --> 00:06:25.519 of grounding, that moment of letting go because 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:27.120 yeah, there's so many things that are flying 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.329 at you. you. I think all of us, but like, especially 00:06:29.329 --> 00:06:33.930 as CEO of a organization that's so large, that's 00:06:33.930 --> 00:06:37.170 dealing with so much crisis, I think most of 00:06:37.170 --> 00:06:39.029 the time. Yeah. Kali, you'll probably hear from 00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:41.389 each of us that no matter what time we served, 00:06:41.589 --> 00:06:43.470 the needs of the world are always greater than 00:06:43.470 --> 00:06:45.509 the resources available to them. And so that 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:48.250 always adds an urgency and a stress to no matter 00:06:48.250 --> 00:06:50.569 what season we're in. Yeah, for sure. For sure. 00:06:52.019 --> 00:06:55.420 Yeah. And so, Dave, when you were leading in 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:57.420 World Vision, you led through this sort of really 00:06:57.420 --> 00:07:01.379 significant period of growth. And so, yeah, can 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:03.399 you just talk to us about like what was that 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:05.439 time like? What was it like to sort of build 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:08.399 that team and that supporter base as you were 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.839 serving as CEO? Well, one of the challenges I 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.939 had when I first came, I'd been in Australia 00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:20.470 and then worked in U .S. as well. And so when 00:07:20.470 --> 00:07:25.069 I came here and we were struggling a bit in terms 00:07:25.069 --> 00:07:31.189 of our fundraising, and it was a sensitive situation. 00:07:31.189 --> 00:07:37.389 My team around me, especially actually doing 00:07:37.389 --> 00:07:40.930 film and so forth, they liked documentaries. 00:07:41.370 --> 00:07:45.699 Okay. And and that was kind of the high bell. 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.939 Sure. So I here am coming from Australia and 00:07:49.939 --> 00:07:53.740 the US where we had television programs. OK. 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:58.790 And we had both discovered that. documentaries 00:07:58.790 --> 00:08:02.449 don't raise money. Okay, sure. Right? And so 00:08:02.449 --> 00:08:05.050 my first kind of negative thing I had to deal 00:08:05.050 --> 00:08:07.689 with, the guys were okay, but a couple of them 00:08:07.689 --> 00:08:13.569 actually left. Sure. And it also meant we hired 00:08:13.569 --> 00:08:21.269 the U .S. organization to help us, and that wasn't 00:08:21.269 --> 00:08:25.069 very popular at the beginning, at the time. But 00:08:25.069 --> 00:08:28.389 the numbers and everything just took off. And 00:08:28.389 --> 00:08:32.090 so that was probably my biggest challenge, I 00:08:32.090 --> 00:08:34.309 think, at the beginning. Because I didn't want 00:08:34.309 --> 00:08:39.330 to make it bad or whatever. And I think what 00:08:39.330 --> 00:08:43.309 helped is it was so dramatic in terms of our 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:48.009 increasing the money that we were raising. Sure. 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:52.590 So I think that was my biggest. Australia helped 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:55.929 me. Because it's kind of in between the U .S. 00:08:56.250 --> 00:08:59.190 and here. So I did, you know, typically Americans 00:08:59.190 --> 00:09:04.250 are kind of goofy sometimes. And so I probably 00:09:04.250 --> 00:09:07.450 was, too. I don't know. But it helped me to not 00:09:07.450 --> 00:09:10.370 be that way. Sure. So that was one of the really 00:09:10.370 --> 00:09:15.769 important things that was there. And then the 00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:19.129 other thing that I think, as I think back, we 00:09:19.129 --> 00:09:24.789 just had great staff. I think of Bradlock, Names, 00:09:24.950 --> 00:09:29.909 people. I think of Linda Tripp. She ran our government 00:09:29.909 --> 00:09:36.669 relations. And we raised a lot of money. And 00:09:36.669 --> 00:09:40.090 we had the other thing that was important. We 00:09:40.090 --> 00:09:46.230 had an older gentleman. He was a retired Presbyterian 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:49.230 minister. Help me, Michael. Ken McMillan. Ken 00:09:49.230 --> 00:09:52.769 McMillan. And he would wander around, you know, 00:09:52.769 --> 00:09:54.690 and he had great... He was our minister at large. 00:09:54.750 --> 00:09:58.090 Minister at large. Great title. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:09:58.230 --> 00:10:00.909 So, and that was important. And then the other 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:04.809 person that I think was great was Don Pusterski. 00:10:05.330 --> 00:10:09.870 He was an interesting character. He had been 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:12.929 part of InterVarsity. That was his background. 00:10:13.389 --> 00:10:18.149 But he had a unique talent. Sure. He came up 00:10:18.149 --> 00:10:21.830 with his own research. And he did a research 00:10:21.830 --> 00:10:25.370 on young people, what their attitudes were. And 00:10:25.370 --> 00:10:28.850 he would do that every year or two. And everybody 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:33.789 read it. I mean, the teachers, professors, whatever. 00:10:33.850 --> 00:10:40.450 And he had a really great handle on what Christianity 00:10:40.450 --> 00:10:45.649 was and what we needed to do. Sure. And his sort 00:10:45.649 --> 00:10:51.480 of frame was to... Let me just give you you practice 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.740 the Great Commission. Yeah. And then you practice 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:59.840 the I've written this down because my memory 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.879 is not so hot. That's OK. Yeah. So and he had 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:07.480 these three pieces that that the great requirement, 00:11:07.539 --> 00:11:10.159 the great requirement, the great command, the 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.779 Great Commission. And what's the other one? Hang 00:11:13.779 --> 00:11:15.639 on. The Great Commandment. Great Commandment. 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:19.450 OK. That covers the whole thing. Okay. This sounds 00:11:19.450 --> 00:11:21.149 pretty good. And the great requirement, by the 00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:23.289 way, I'm stealing from his nose, is Micah 6 .8, 00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:25.009 right? What does the Lord require of you? To 00:11:25.009 --> 00:11:26.870 act justly, to love mercy, and to walk up to 00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:28.649 the Lord. Right, right, right. Okay. And to love 00:11:28.649 --> 00:11:31.210 your neighbor as yourself. Yeah. Okay. And his 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:34.690 book doing this? Yep. You can only get it now 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:40.429 for $150. Okay. Pocket change, really. But the 00:11:40.429 --> 00:11:43.929 message is still cheap. Yeah. But meaningful. 00:11:44.210 --> 00:11:48.629 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, as you sort of described, 00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:50.690 you know, making some hard choices, but then 00:11:50.690 --> 00:11:54.009 seeing the fruit of that. Yeah. Right? And I 00:11:54.009 --> 00:11:55.789 think, as you sort of described, surrounding 00:11:55.789 --> 00:11:58.289 yourself with really good people. Absolutely. 00:11:58.529 --> 00:12:05.769 Yeah. Yeah. And our... I'm thinking of our finance 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:10.490 leader. We've always had great responsibility 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:15.549 there. That was really important. And never had 00:12:15.549 --> 00:12:18.509 any... We didn't really have any troubles with 00:12:18.509 --> 00:12:20.970 that. Sure. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm sure there 00:12:20.970 --> 00:12:23.570 were some smaller things, but overall it was 00:12:23.570 --> 00:12:26.429 really, really strong. Yeah. So that was another 00:12:26.429 --> 00:12:28.870 part of the organization that was really important. 00:12:29.049 --> 00:12:32.750 Sure. For sure. Yeah. I know you also sort of 00:12:32.750 --> 00:12:36.330 have a more personal connection with World Vision 00:12:36.330 --> 00:12:38.809 as well, sort of through your late daughter, 00:12:38.990 --> 00:12:41.470 Jocelyn. So maybe do you want to tell us a little 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:44.169 bit about your family and how all of those pieces 00:12:44.169 --> 00:12:51.740 overlap? Yeah. No. So we had our son and our 00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:56.440 daughter. Son is older. And he when we came here, 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.940 he decided he wanted to go not do his university 00:13:00.940 --> 00:13:03.720 here, but to do it in the United States. OK. 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.179 I had two sisters and their husbands in Seattle 00:13:07.179 --> 00:13:10.899 area. So that's where he went. And so he got 00:13:10.899 --> 00:13:14.779 his degree there. And then. He wanted to work 00:13:14.779 --> 00:13:18.179 at World Vision. So he's now been working at 00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:20.899 World Vision for the last decade. Okay. And he 00:13:20.899 --> 00:13:24.960 leads the work they do with their major donors. 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:29.100 Okay. And pastors. And he does a major event 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.340 of each of that. And they raise billions of dollars. 00:13:32.539 --> 00:13:35.779 Sure. It's unbelievable. But he's a very strong 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:39.200 Christian. He lost his wife to cancer as we lost 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:45.100 our daughter to his sister. But he's remarried 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:49.539 now. They've got five kids. Okay, yeah, yeah. 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:53.899 And they're doing really well. And let's see, 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.940 the oldest daughter is getting married this summer. 00:13:57.019 --> 00:14:01.059 Okay, awesome. So that's another part that was 00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:04.779 really, really interesting for us. Sure, sure. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:08.440 And the hardest thing for me was I needed to 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.799 leave World Vision. but losing our daughter -in 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.460 -law was very difficult. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for 00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:20.879 sure, for sure, yeah. Yeah, so you led World 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.340 Vision for a while, and then, Michael, you led 00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:26.919 World Vision Canada for a little bit. And, yeah, 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.879 lots of ups and downs and through a pandemic 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.769 and all of these sorts of things. Yeah, so maybe 00:14:33.769 --> 00:14:35.169 can you tell us a little bit about, you know, 00:14:35.169 --> 00:14:36.789 what were some of the changes and what were some 00:14:36.789 --> 00:14:38.629 of the stability that you found through your 00:14:38.629 --> 00:14:41.590 time as leader? Yeah, I came back to World Vision. 00:14:41.649 --> 00:14:43.629 I worked for them for five years before I left, 00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:46.929 but came back in 2007 working for Dave, actually, 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:49.610 and got the privilege to do that for almost eight 00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:52.129 years before I stepped into the role in 2015 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:54.529 and then served for a decade. That was my plan. 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:57.250 Oh, that was your plan. And his plan for me was 00:14:57.250 --> 00:15:00.789 two weeks, right, Michael? What can I say? You 00:15:00.789 --> 00:15:02.690 were probably a faster learner than I was. I 00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:05.370 was Allison, so I think that's fair. But yeah, 00:15:05.409 --> 00:15:07.230 so I mean, Dave and I worked closely together. 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:09.490 I was his number two chief operating officer 00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.269 for a period of time. But you know what? I mean, 00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:14.529 I think all of us would say that no matter what 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:17.620 the season. Yep. The world changed. So the things, 00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:20.299 for example, that brought huge growth to World 00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:22.799 Vision during the 80s and 90s through Dave's 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.759 early years, they just weren't the same anymore. 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.620 Sure. Think of how we consume media or images 00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:32.460 and how we share information. And this was all 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:35.460 pre -internet. And it was when we could work 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.639 on a single channel of a telethon or something 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.409 like that. Sure. So it really required us to 00:15:40.409 --> 00:15:43.529 look and look at a very dynamic, changing Canadian 00:15:43.529 --> 00:15:45.669 environment. Yeah. But always coming back to 00:15:45.669 --> 00:15:47.730 the same thing, which is how do we make sure 00:15:47.730 --> 00:15:51.029 that we appeal to Canadians and show that they 00:15:51.029 --> 00:15:52.649 can make a difference in the world? Sure. No 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:54.690 matter what their values are, what their perspectives 00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:56.789 are, we wanted to offer that opportunity. Again, 00:15:56.909 --> 00:15:59.529 with this idea that the needs of the world were 00:15:59.529 --> 00:16:02.529 always greater than the resources available. 00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.769 Sure. We had to figure out what needs to stay 00:16:05.769 --> 00:16:08.330 the same. Yep. And what needs to change. So even 00:16:08.330 --> 00:16:10.149 during the pandemic, which is probably, you know, 00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:13.909 we all, you know, the giant shift in that time, 00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:16.929 it changed everything. Sure. So often in our 00:16:16.929 --> 00:16:19.710 world vision, we would talk about, you know, 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:21.450 think about disasters that were happening somewhere 00:16:21.450 --> 00:16:24.029 else. Sure. The pandemic was really a disaster 00:16:24.029 --> 00:16:26.230 that was happening somewhere else and here at 00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:28.929 home. And it made a connection, but it fundamentally 00:16:28.929 --> 00:16:30.850 had to change everything that we did, the way 00:16:30.850 --> 00:16:33.570 we did our programming in places like Nueva Fonterra 00:16:33.570 --> 00:16:36.250 and Honduras, and in how we connected with our 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:38.590 donors and supporters and our churches and all 00:16:38.590 --> 00:16:41.730 of our partners here in Canada. So through those 00:16:41.730 --> 00:16:43.990 times, we kind of took three things. One, we 00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:45.789 always wanted to make sure that we, responded 00:16:45.789 --> 00:16:48.330 to the needs. You had to look around to say what's 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:50.889 changing and how can you get ahead of those things 00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:53.210 so that we can adapt, you know, using technology 00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:55.889 differently, ways of connecting, even messaging 00:16:55.889 --> 00:16:57.870 and recognizing what it means in a multicultural 00:16:57.870 --> 00:17:00.490 world. But in addition to responding, we also 00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:02.450 wanted to make sure that we protected what was 00:17:02.450 --> 00:17:05.410 most important, particularly the needs of children 00:17:05.410 --> 00:17:07.690 so that they were being served, protecting our 00:17:07.690 --> 00:17:09.990 mission and our vision and our Christian identity. 00:17:10.190 --> 00:17:12.309 But then also the third element, and this was 00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:15.690 always key in any change, was to adapt. So responding, 00:17:15.769 --> 00:17:18.130 protecting, but also adapting. If we weren't 00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:20.309 also investing in new ways of thinking and trying 00:17:20.309 --> 00:17:24.210 to get ahead of what was coming, then we grew 00:17:24.210 --> 00:17:28.150 and became more effective because we were investing 00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:31.049 in innovation and doing new things, all with 00:17:31.049 --> 00:17:33.049 the drive, trying to drive toward that mission 00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:36.109 and vision. So those aren't very specific examples, 00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:39.849 but the overall approach was really key. And 00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:41.410 I suspect that was the same for Dave and Allison 00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:45.920 in their own context. Culture and context is 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.339 always shifting, right? So, yeah, I think that's 00:17:48.339 --> 00:17:51.599 really helpful to think about the adapting and 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.539 the protecting and, yeah, responding to those 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:58.039 needs. So you mentioned protecting sort of the 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.940 Christian vision and values and identity of World 00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:02.720 Vision. So, like, what did that look like? How 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.579 do you do that? Yeah. Well, that's a huge question, 00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:07.440 right? Because World Vision is a Christian organization. 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.940 But we really have wanted to not only just talk 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.569 to other Christians. Sure. but to invite all 00:18:15.569 --> 00:18:17.970 Canadians to join us to say, look, we are motivated 00:18:17.970 --> 00:18:20.710 by our Christian faith to reach out to those 00:18:20.710 --> 00:18:24.309 in need. It's Jesus who said life in all its 00:18:24.309 --> 00:18:26.109 fullness that we want to have for every child. 00:18:26.329 --> 00:18:28.529 But you don't have to be a Christian to join 00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:30.650 us. And so it was always that really interesting 00:18:30.650 --> 00:18:33.529 balance. And Dave modeled this from the start. 00:18:33.789 --> 00:18:36.490 How do we remain true to who we are and the values 00:18:36.490 --> 00:18:39.869 and our motivation and even making sure that 00:18:39.869 --> 00:18:42.049 we know that the way that we do our program work 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:44.240 is different because we're Christians? But how 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.259 do we invite others to join us no matter what 00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:49.019 their perspective? And in a multicultural society 00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:52.359 like Canada. It's that can be pretty tricky to, 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.279 you know, what is, what does it mean to be open 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.660 and, and listen, but also be really true to our 00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:59.660 vision and mission without compromising those, 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.579 those kinds of things. So it's about focusing 00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:03.440 on the things that hold us together rather than 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:05.480 the things that take us apart. For sure. Even 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.299 within the Christian community. So it's been, 00:19:07.299 --> 00:19:09.019 it's been wonderful. And God has blessed us, 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:12.420 I think, to, and I love the fact that we have 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:15.339 supporters from, I can still say we yell. Yes, 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.960 you can. I'm enjoying this. I'm paying lots of 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.180 attention. We have supporters. from all different 00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:22.599 backgrounds. Sure. But we're firmly grounded 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:24.660 in the church, including partnerships like the 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.079 one we have here. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I would 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.440 just add, right, that this expression of our 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.079 Christian faith here in Canada reflects what 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.920 we do on the ground. Our effectiveness is because 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.500 we partner across, you know, in technical terms, 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.859 we'll say Christian faith, faith, other faith 00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:42.599 and non -faith actors to drive whole life and 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:44.640 whole community transformation. Right. And we 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.559 do that being grounded in our faith and in our 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:49.839 witness to Christ. We talk about being a witness 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.599 to Christ in life, in word, in deed, and in sign, 00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:57.039 which means we can faithfully express his goodness 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.440 in any place in the world. Right. And so we live 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.160 that out in Canada as well. And do it without 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:02.880 any strings attached. Yeah. I think that's the 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.759 really important thing. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.099 I love that, that sense of like, we're grounded 00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:10.700 in our faith, but our faith doesn't limit what 00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.900 we're able to do or who we're able to work with. 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:17.759 Right. That our why is Jesus. Exactly. But Jesus 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.299 is. In all of the places, even if people don't 00:20:20.299 --> 00:20:22.940 know he's there yet. Very often it's coming alongside 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:25.740 and just joining Jesus in the work that he and 00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:27.559 the Holy Spirit are already doing. Yeah, for 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.279 sure. That was really important for me when I 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.059 came here, that I need to read right away because 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:37.799 the U .S., it was all Christians. Sure. And I 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.240 think Michael's handled this, and you're handling 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.859 it too, is that we've got lots of people that 00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:48.240 don't go to church. Sure. but they've got Christianity 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.900 somewhere in the background, or they see us at 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:55.619 least we're honest or we care, whatever, and 00:20:55.619 --> 00:21:00.779 that needs to be respected. And I think that's 00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:04.960 been consistent with all of our leaders here. 00:21:05.059 --> 00:21:07.220 Sure. Yeah, I mean, you've managed to do that 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:11.180 too, because you're coming from what would be 00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:15.480 an area where it was more Christian. than probably 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.619 in terms of our supporters. You know what I mean? 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:21.559 We always wanted to show integrity. You know, 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.359 you don't want to present as an onion and peel 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.789 the onions. back layer by layer. And then all 00:21:26.789 --> 00:21:27.990 of a sudden in the middle, I don't know, you 00:21:27.990 --> 00:21:35.970 find a surprise. So you want to be able to express 00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:38.049 that. And so you want to make sure that no matter 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:40.269 how you say and who you are, you're clear on 00:21:40.269 --> 00:21:42.869 who you are, what values motivate you and you 00:21:42.869 --> 00:21:44.869 can go deeper, but that there's integrity all 00:21:44.869 --> 00:21:47.529 the way. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. 00:21:47.849 --> 00:21:51.769 So, um, Allison, as you think about Trinity's 00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:55.369 partnership with Nueva Frontera, is there one 00:21:55.369 --> 00:21:57.170 thing that you think our church family should 00:21:57.170 --> 00:21:59.450 sort of know about that? Is there like one piece 00:21:59.450 --> 00:22:02.109 that you're like, this is really important? You 00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:04.690 know, I think it would be what I left you with 00:22:04.690 --> 00:22:08.250 today is to recognize that God is the one who 00:22:08.250 --> 00:22:11.670 multiplies your, in some ways it might feel seemingly 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:13.769 small. In other ways, it feels like a really 00:22:13.769 --> 00:22:17.130 significant sacrifice, right? But God is at work 00:22:17.130 --> 00:22:20.509 multiplying your yes. and your investment in 00:22:20.509 --> 00:22:23.549 one child and one family and one community in 00:22:23.549 --> 00:22:25.710 ways that only he can. So I would say, you know, 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:28.450 as you think about the season ahead and getting 00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:30.509 to that, what is it, two years and three months, 00:22:30.549 --> 00:22:33.829 you know, towards us celebrating them graduating 00:22:33.829 --> 00:22:37.259 into self -sufficiency. To keep walking that 00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:39.980 faith with the Lord, right? And we were reminded, 00:22:40.059 --> 00:22:43.900 right, the great commandment to continue to love 00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:45.759 God with all our heart and soul and mind and 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.400 strength. And as an outpouring of that, to love 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.920 our neighbors as ourselves. And so to keep following 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.160 that path with Jesus one step and one day at 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.319 a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I just add 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.099 to that? Because I think what Allison's message 00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:02.950 is today. speaks to our Christian identity, which 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:05.730 is that God does multiply. We're not just a ministry 00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:08.730 of programs, but we're a presence, prayer, and 00:23:08.730 --> 00:23:11.049 this promise of transformation. And it's only 00:23:11.049 --> 00:23:12.730 through the work of the Holy Spirit and the partnership 00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:15.250 alongside that we can multiply. And that's pretty 00:23:15.250 --> 00:23:18.190 amazing. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sometimes 00:23:18.190 --> 00:23:20.230 when I am talking to people about the story of 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:22.289 the five loaves and the two fish, I'll look at 00:23:22.289 --> 00:23:24.049 it and say, yeah, you know what? Five loaves 00:23:24.049 --> 00:23:26.809 and two fish is not enough to feed 5 ,000 people 00:23:26.809 --> 00:23:30.410 until you add Jesus. Yes. Right? That without 00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:33.029 the Jesus bit, the multiplication doesn't happen. 00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:37.230 Right. So we bring our bits, but like God does 00:23:37.230 --> 00:23:39.509 some amazing things that we could never have 00:23:39.509 --> 00:23:43.630 imagined. Okay. Yeah. So when you think about 00:23:43.630 --> 00:23:45.930 like local churches in Canada, I think sometimes 00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:48.990 there's a tension like between, you know, providing 00:23:48.990 --> 00:23:50.730 for our community and providing for like the 00:23:50.730 --> 00:23:52.269 international community. So like, how do you 00:23:52.269 --> 00:23:55.450 find those pieces sort of coming together? You 00:23:55.450 --> 00:23:58.250 know, I often think about, you know, add this 00:23:58.250 --> 00:24:00.369 to another commission in Acts 1 verse 8, right? 00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.190 And it says, and you will be my witnesses, right? 00:24:03.329 --> 00:24:06.269 In Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:08.990 of the earth. And so I inherently would say that 00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:11.950 as a Jesus follower, we have a call to our local 00:24:11.950 --> 00:24:14.589 neighbors first and foremost. And so I would 00:24:14.589 --> 00:24:18.049 encourage everyone listening to, you know, consider 00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:20.750 the way in which God calls you to care for your 00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:22.930 local community, right? Whether that's prayer 00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:27.259 or... you know, fellowship over meals, generosity 00:24:27.259 --> 00:24:30.039 of home and spirit and sharing of life, right? 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:33.059 Volunteering at food banks, so many opportunities. 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.619 And what we know is that while there is so much 00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:40.160 need in our country, we were reminded in 2020, 00:24:40.420 --> 00:24:43.299 right? The great equalizer in some ways it felt. 00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:47.980 And yet in Canada, we have safety nets and security 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:51.000 in ways that the most vulnerable simply don't 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.259 have. have, right? Whether that is in certain 00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:56.240 forms of policy or in the provision of healthcare 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.859 or in access to education, the general protection 00:24:59.859 --> 00:25:03.400 of your rights, food that is available in certain 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.440 ways for the majority. And so I would remember 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.099 that alongside the calling and the example of 00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:12.099 Jesus, right? Who favored the outcasts, the marginalized, 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:15.700 the poor among Him, and to encourage you to go 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:18.349 and do likewise. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:20.509 you so much. And I love that Trinity has a deep 00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:23.089 connection with the local community, but also 00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:26.309 makes space for partnerships like this. And I 00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:28.349 think all three of us are child sponsors at World 00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:31.190 Vision. I've been there with Trinity in 2023 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:34.190 in Honduras, and to hear from our sponsored child. 00:25:34.369 --> 00:25:38.170 So it's a reminder, right, of that international 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:40.490 connection, even while we're right here. Yeah, 00:25:40.569 --> 00:25:43.250 that it's not an either -or. It's let's figure 00:25:43.250 --> 00:25:45.230 out how we can make space for both. So good. 00:25:45.490 --> 00:25:48.720 Extending the table. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anything 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.359 else you want to sort of leave us with? Yeah. 00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.480 Any, any final sort of words of encouragement 00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.140 or wisdom? I looked at Michael or Dave. Well, 00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:04.940 I had one story. Yeah. Of our, our daughter. 00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:09.359 Yeah. And, and she went, it was kind of crazy. 00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:15.200 There was a, a movement in Uganda and it was 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.940 just, It was unbelievable. And it was led partly 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:23.799 by a woman. And also, and it was Sudan was part 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.099 of it. Sure. And they were just, and it was called, 00:26:27.299 --> 00:26:33.119 they had a movement and they were killing children. 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:39.460 It was just a disaster. And I don't know if it 00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:42.440 was the greatest idea. Anyway, she had not traveled 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:46.980 overseas. She was 20 years old. And and then 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:50.380 I had a chance. We were going to go to see what 00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:53.400 was going on. Yeah. And that was probably one 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.960 of the heaviest things in her life that she ever 00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.779 experienced. Sure. She said that to me when we 00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:02.160 got there and she was, you know, kind of observing. 00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:04.940 But then there were these young girls who had 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:08.799 been raped and everything imaginable in a camp. 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:13.299 And she just walked in and started talking. Yeah. 00:27:13.339 --> 00:27:18.460 Yeah. and talking and walking with these girls, 00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:22.460 just comfort in them. And that was one of the 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:28.319 things she told me. She said, Daddy, I saw all 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.220 the things. I know what you're doing. But he 00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:33.960 said, now I understand what you're talking about. 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.099 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was one of the things 00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:41.329 I'll never forget. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 00:27:41.410 --> 00:27:44.150 That really personal experience, that personal 00:27:44.150 --> 00:27:47.789 connection and knowing that like in all of this 00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:50.170 work that world vision does, it's, it's so big 00:27:50.170 --> 00:27:52.849 that I think sometimes we like stop to talk about 00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:55.230 the numbers of it. And like, that's really important 00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:57.670 to see that whole impact, but then yeah, to bring 00:27:57.670 --> 00:28:00.349 it back in and to say, these are real kids. These 00:28:00.349 --> 00:28:03.690 are real families, real lives being changed by 00:28:03.690 --> 00:28:07.549 personal connection and impact is yeah. So important. 00:28:07.769 --> 00:28:10.140 Yeah. So thank you so much. for sharing dave 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:13.000 and thank you all for being part of our podcast 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.700 today for taking this time to share your stories 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.700 and your ministry it's been so encouraging to 00:28:18.700 --> 00:28:22.039 know yeah that this partnership that Trinity 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:24.019 has had with World Vision has been so impactful. 00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:27.500 And yet that you're doing so much good work that 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:30.779 we are all able to participate in this work together. 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.480 And thank you for tuning into this week's episode 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.960 of Trinity Talks. Whether you are sort of part 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.680 of the Trinity family or not, whether you... 00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:42.509 have been part of a partnership or a connection 00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:44.730 with World Vision or not, I hope that you found 00:28:44.730 --> 00:28:47.349 encouragement in this conversation. And I hope 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:50.609 that you feel challenged to go out to live the 00:28:50.609 --> 00:28:52.750 Great Commission, the Great Requirement, and 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.809 the Great Commandment, and to love God, to love 00:28:55.809 --> 00:28:57.529 your neighbor in all of the spaces where you 00:28:57.529 --> 00:28:59.549 find yourself. And we will see you again next 00:28:59.549 --> 00:28:59.750 week.