Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana.
I'm Amal. Thank you. And we are here to continue
talking about our series called This is the Way,
where we're learning about what it means to follow
the way of Jesus, and specifically what are some
of the spiritual practices, what are some of
the habits, the things that we can do that help
us as we grow more in our faith. And so we started
by talking about the practice of prayer. And
then last week we talked about the practice of
scripture reading. Today we're moving into a
practice that's maybe a little bit less known,
a little bit less common, and that is the practice
of solitude. Solitude, I don't know. So when
I hear the word solitude, I think fortress of
solitude. And maybe this is not quite what we're
going for here. But yeah, I don't know. We're
going to talk about solitude as a spiritual practice.
What does that even mean? So I think that's probably
a good place to start. When you think about solitude
as a spiritual practice, like what what does
that mean to you? What does you think that that
looks like? Yeah. Do you want to start us off,
Hugh? Sure. Well, I think it's important to differentiate
solitude from aloneness and from loneliness.
OK. Loneliness is a time of struggle and pain.
Aloneness can be a separation from the noise
of the world but you're alone but you can still
be on your device and you can still be connected
to the world. Solitude is more of a total separation
from the world for a time and it's not painful
like loneliness, but it's a time of healing and
it's a time of trying to get close to God and
allowing God to enter into your soul. And for
that we need silence because God whispers in
the silence. So that's what solitude is in terms
of between loneliness and aloneness. Yeah, I
think that's a really helpful distinction. Yeah,
you want to add anything to that? Yeah, it's
deliberately quiet time basically trying to Get
rid of all the distractions whether it's phone
or people or so I've heard you know like of like
like long retreats and stuff like like silent
retreats or yeah, or if you go walk alone in
nature, so right I'm not sure exactly with how
it works daily. Sure, that's fair. But I know,
Hugh, you were saying about how you do sort of
daily solitude, right? Or I do. How does that
work? I try to do it daily. Well, it's there's
a number of aspects to it. One is I think you
the physical space is important. So like a comfortable
chair, a comfortable a place away from distractions,
away from the phone, away from the noise in the
house. I have an office in my basement, which
is quite quiet. And so that's my space for solitude.
And then for me, I do some breathing exercises
just to get me into the solitude. And a lot of
people will do a variety of things with the time.
It can be 10 minutes, it can be half an hour,
it can be longer if you have the time. But the
importance of solitude is to have a space, a
physical space, but then you enter into an emotional
and a spiritual space where you're receptive
to God. And that takes a bit of a focus. And
for me, I found that writing is a focus. So I
write... a minimum of three pages a day. And
it doesn't and it's just writing. It's a dialogue
with God. I write about I write to Jesus. I say,
Dear Jesus, good morning. These are my thoughts
today. These are my struggles. These are my joys.
These are the things the people that are important
in my life. These are the people I want to pray
for. And then there comes a time in those three
pages where I shut up and say, OK, Jesus, tell
me what you think about all these things. And
then I try to hear what he's saying. And I write
that as well. OK. And so that for me is important
because writing for me helps me to focus. Sure.
Other people focus in other ways. They may have
a quiet music in the background. they may have
a good breeding exercise and they may have a
mantra which is many Christians have the mantra
that says Jesus and they repeat Jesus in Jesus
because the thing that happens when you're in
solitude is that the mind tries to wander. And
it's really hard to hold it. It's like ships
on the river, you know? The ship goes by and,
you know, what's my bank account saying today?
What am I going to do at work tomorrow? And all
of these things. And it's okay. That's part of
being human. And you let those ships... pot and
pass because you don't jump aboard any of them.
The tendency is to jump aboard. That's right.
And and then you you keep you keep still. You're
still in the solitude. And God does whisper and
does come through. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
What about for you, Jordan? Would you? Yeah,
I was I mean, I was just thinking of the sort
of trajectory of the series. Right. We talked
about prayer and we talked about. Bible reading
and those feel very active. You do need solitude.
Prayer can be both alone and with people. And
so, you know, when you are praying alone, you
are in that space of solitude and you are creating
it. But it is very active. I think of solitude
as moving through that space where. you begin
to reflect or slow down. And as you go through
many of the things you're going through, maybe
it begins to be active, but it moves into a space
of quieter, of stillness, of trust that builds
up, of receptiveness. And so I do think that
the two are related, but not distinct. It can
be quite an active, strenuous thing. Whereas
the reflection and the stillness that comes,
I think, in those times when that reflection
leads. to you quieting down every once in a while
allows for a peace, I think, and a groundedness
that you can let go and be just in the presence
of God rather than. Being very active with all
the concerns of life. Yeah So yeah, I was just
trying to think through how we move from this
very active space into the more receptors Receptive
and still space of solitude. Yeah. Yeah, I think
it allows that That goes well with the practice
that you were describing you of like starting
out by like you writing out lots of thoughts
because sometimes I think if we Try to start
with just the receptivity our brain gets in the
way because you're like I need to get all of
these things out So starting by writing out all
of the things that you need to get out of your
brain, then allows you to enter into a space
where you're saying, OK, I've put it all on the
table. Now, like, what does the spirit of Christ
have to say to me? Yes, that's all it allows.
That it allows that surrender, which is really
nice. That's, you know. Yeah, I think so. You
said when you were talking to you that like.
In talking about the difference between solitude
and like loneliness, solitude is not painful.
It should be a thing that's healing. I think
it's important to clarify there that that doesn't
mean that solitude is not challenging. I think
it's still hard. It's just not painful in the
same way that loneliness is painful. Loneliness
is you long for connection. and you're denied
it. And it's a good longing. We're made to have
those connections with people. Solitude is not
that you're longing. In fact, you are actually
connecting. It's just that you're connecting
with God and you're creating spaces for that
spiritual connection. So it's a different thing
than loneliness. But it's still hard to do sometimes.
It's hard to do, yes. For sure. It is. That's
why it's called the practice. Yes, yes. We do
it slowly over time. We build up our tolerance
and our ability to do that well. It's definitely
a learning learned behavior. It's not like something
like you can you can get into the habit of praying
or reading scripture. So but but it almost feels
counterintuitive to counteractive to to be in
solitude, especially in our day and age, you
know, there's always something going on. You
know, whether you're watching something, listening
to something, people around, there's all there's
always distractions. There's always things to
keep your mind occupied. So to almost force yourself
to be like, I'm getting rid of that for even
five minutes. Yeah. You know, that's you. You
really have to learn how to do that. Sure. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So you talked
about like what this looks like for you on it.
daily basis, but when we were talking before,
you also shared about this 10 -day silent retreat
that you were on. You want to tell us what that
experience was like for you? Yes. Again, it was
a challenge because it was a very busy time in
my life. I had three teenagers at home and a
busy career, but I felt that I needed to get
away. And so I went to Guelph to the Jesuit community
and took a 10 -day silent retreat. Now, the challenge
was the first three days. I thought I'd go crazy.
Sure. Because, you know, no phones are allowed
and nothing is allowed. You're by yourself. Yeah.
Basically. And completely silent. Completely
silent. So you're not even like talking to the
other folks who are there, really? No, you're
not allowed to. Even the meals are silent. Oh,
wow. So you don't say pass the butter, you know,
you just make a sign or, you know, somehow somebody
will will be sensitive to your need and pass
the butter. But so what happens, what I discovered
is that after the third day, I started to quiet
down and I started to to to to like myself a
little better. OK. And I discovered that solitude
Like is nourishment, like nourishment for the
mind is reading and education and so and nourishment
for your body is doing, eating good foods and
doing good exercise. Solitude is nourishment
for the soul and sometimes that's the last thing
that we think about it and is something that
we neglect. But God wants to nourish our souls
and God wants us to be happy and He wants us
to be peaceful and He wants to talk to us. But
we have to get rid of the noise of the world
so we can listen to His voice. So the last eight
days were tremendous. Sure. You just got to get
through the first three. Got through the first
three. Sometimes it takes people a day. Sometimes
it takes people five days, you know, depends.
Yeah. But it's yes, it's it's being alone and
and and and and then it becomes a real it's a
richness. There's a richness there that that's
that's hard to describe, but it. Here you are.
You know, it's like the song. You're with Jesus
who says, you're my brother and you're so close
to me, and yet I'm your King. But I am so, I
so love you. I'm such an expansive God that you
can't even begin to know me until you sit down
and say, come to me. And that's the richness.
Yeah, it's powerful. Mm -hmm. Yeah, it's really
powerful. So I think that Just like reflecting
on that experience and like what you're sharing.
I think there's there's hope and there's comfort
in knowing that like Yeah, that that solitude
can be a really nourishing thing but also there's
hope and there's encouragement and knowing that
the first three days can be really hard and so
when we start this practice whether we're starting
it as an intensive retreat or as a you know five
or ten minute daily practice like if it's hard
at first that's okay yeah yeah i wanted to just
bring in here something that i speak about with
my students yeah um at university where i'm when
i help doctoral writers and it's so hard to write
these long pieces of work that nobody's ever
written at that length before. And they talk
about how busy they are, or how much work there
is, or how many things they have to do, and therefore
the doctorate gets pushed aside. And we speak
about the distinction between external distractions,
and those are the external things that you have
to do, the teaching, the grading, the whatever,
the things. And with us, it's family life, it's
everything. But then when you have time and you
put it down and you sit down to write a doctorate
and then there are the internal distractions
the things where you don't feel productive or
the thoughts don't come or you know you're not
writing yeah and it feels like that is unproductive
time it feels and then it's very easy to reach
for the cell phone or reach for the email or
reach for the oh I'm not getting it done now
I'm gonna put it down and put it away yeah but
it's that internal distraction where you sit
in the space where when something is hard Right?
You allow that space for discomfort to be the
space you occupy for a while as you give time.
for those thoughts, those ideas to consolidate.
And it's so important, there's so many studies,
but they're so important to actually sit in that
space rather than reaching for things elsewhere.
And the point is not to just sit in the discomfort
all the time, it's to be able to allow that,
to get through that discomfort into the place
where you can write or where the thoughts can
come together. And so when it comes to writing
and writing that's difficult, you know, it's
important to be OK with the uncertainty and OK
with the discomfort of that silence and off the
space. And I think, you know, I think it's very
valid for what it might mean to create spaces
of solitude where it won't be easy for a while
or you will feel very unproductive or you'll
feel very like that's not giving you right away
the spiritual peace you had thought it would
give you. And that ability to say no, like as
all your thoughts and your life gets crowded
in, allow that space for reflection, but allow
that space for uncertainty and discomfort and
mystery as well. Because as the practice, as
you sort of... engage in the practice on an ongoing
basis, you'll find yourself slowly moving towards
that space where you can quieten down and reflect.
But there will be, and there's no rule as to
how long it'll take before you can actually move
there, that there will be that time of feeling
intensely uncomfortable, maybe, but to allow
it to happen, allow that process to take place.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's helpful to sort of
think through. I like the distinction between
internal and external distractions because I
think it's fair to say, like, I'm distracted.
But then you think about, OK, what am I distracted
by? And is this something that is actually imminent?
Or is this just a feeling, a thought, a thing
that I need to work through or that I need to
write out on paper so that it's out there? Right?
Yeah. Yeah. What about other challenges when
you think about our experiences of solitude so
we've talked about you know being distracted
by all the things happening in the world being
distracted even by our own minds um yeah what
else comes to mind when you think about what
makes it hard to practice solitude uh i think
part of it is just it's it's a weird feeling
when everything is silent when you're not listening
to anything when you're not watching something
yeah you know and it's just it's sort of like
again it's not I don't think we grew up in a
world where we had moments like this. I wonder,
is there a way to have this instilled in a young
age, especially nowadays where everything is
iPad this and YouTube and there's all these sort
of things to try to keep you distracted. It's
it's it's definitely one of those things where
I almost feel like people back like but prior
to the technology boom probably We're able to
practice that a lot easier, you know, but now
that's our but that's our challenge We have to
get back to that. Sure. Yeah sure. Mm -hmm Yeah,
and I think sort of on top of that the idea that
like it's not just that like It's not just the
you know, the science of like being glued to
technology It's like culture our culture actually
rewards us for always being on the go always
doing things for always like getting more input
and put getting Doing more output and like all
of those things when we are busy. We are like
quote -unquote successful. We're celebrated I
mean look at look at stuff like Shark Tanker,
right? You know, right? Yeah, the entrepreneur
that's always on the go that's putting in it
so many hours a week, they're rewarded. It makes
it like, oh, well, they really want to succeed.
That's how we measure success. You're right.
Yeah. Yeah. So it is just like a very countercultural
thing to be like, I'm going to step back from
that. And it can get scary to the extent that,
on the one hand, you feel like, as I said, you're
not being productive in that moment. But I think
the other thing is you're confronted with yourself.
And the things you've been putting away or off,
the things you've been doing wrong, like they
all come rushing to the fore, you know? And solitude
is that space where you're deliberately not distracted
from the things that you've been hiding from.
And that can be a place where it can, if you
allow it, be a place of confession. It can be
a place of repentance. It can be a place. But
these are. uncomfortable things for sure and
so there are those spaces where solitude will
you know as you said you it was after a few days
that you began to like yourself again that began
you know that got me thinking about what it might
mean to actually be in the space of solitude
where you are confronting all your own foibles
and limitations to get to the place where you
can trust God and love and know His love. But
yeah, you need to give that process some space
as well, but it won't be comfortable. No, that's
such a good point that as soon as we slow down
in our culture, because as you were saying earlier,
Kyla, we're so focused on doing than in solitude,
we have to be. The being takes precedence. And
it scares us. And it brings up all kinds of things.
It brings up our vulnerabilities. And the fact
that we're far from perfect. And when we're busy
doing, we don't think about that. Because we're
so busy in the world. But all of a sudden, you're
just being. And it's so important to be because...
When we relate to other people, people don't
always want us to do things for them. Sometimes
they just want us to be with them. And in solitude,
as we learn to be with Jesus, we also learn to
be with others. Sure. But the challenge is we
have to be with ourselves first, face those little
demons that you were talking about, Jordan. Yeah,
and I think like one thing that sort of came
to mind for me as we were like talking at this
idea of like facing ourselves and how Difficult
that can be sometimes I think That's for me.
That's part of the reason that it's important
to like pair Solitude with other spiritual practices.
Yeah, that like Jesus did not call us to live
in isolation all the time and so pairing it with
practices of community, with practices of confession,
with meeting with a pastor or a spiritual director
or a therapist or a life group, whoever it is
that you need to journey with you in this process
of confronting yourself and confronting whatever
it is that that solitude brings up in you, I
think is really, really important. Absolutely.
So then, if solitude is so hard, Why should we
do it? Yeah, it sounds like it's just a really
challenging thing. And we've said that it's nice
at the end. But like, what is good about it?
What gets us there, I guess? What do we find
at the end of this journey? It makes us more
whole. OK. And so as we become more whole, we
can extend that wholeness to others. OK. And
I think that's that's that's key. That's key
for me. Yeah. I'm just thinking that it creates
the space. Like you think of a Christian walk,
right? And there is, you know, it begins with
you knowing you need God. Yep. Right. And if
you're always doing, you're not ever entering
that space. Like sometimes something will whack
you on the head in and says, you know, stop.
You are out of control. You don't have control
on the situation. You need God. Yeah. But we...
Unless that happens and you're in a space where
that happens, we don't necessarily create spaces
for us to reflect. And so I would say solitude
makes you sort of structures in creating those
spaces of reflection, of trust, because ultimately
in those spaces of reflection, you're confronted
with yourself, but then you're confronted with
the fact that you need God and that He is there.
And if you're going to reach for that love on
an ongoing basis and ground yourself in the peace
that comes from Him, then you're going to have
to create those spaces where you allow yourself
that process. So, yeah, I would say that it matters
to just being someone who connects with God and
who creates space for his presence. Right. In
your life, yeah. And it's related to community,
because as we connect in solitude with God and
with ourselves, we then we're more and more prepared
to connect with others in community. Sure. And
community is important. Yeah. In the scripture,
Jesus is in community. He's in solitude, but
he's also in community. Right. There's a real.
link there. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I wonder if
we can say a little bit more about how that works,
because I think, yeah, like, like if you were
to elaborate on that, like what, how does solitude
prepare us to like, be in community more? Do
you think? Well, because, because we have, we
have a community basically as connection, as
connection to each other. It's learning to deeply
listen to each other. And that's what we do in
solitude. Jesus is teaching us to deeply listen
to Him and deeply listen to ourselves. And once
we're able to do that in solitude, it becomes
then... a little easier to do it in community
right okay so it's like exercising that that
listening muscle that's right yeah okay yeah
yeah i also wonder if there's part of it that
is our ability to when we've had a space for
us to like deal with whatever is happening inside
of us then we feel less need to like Insist on
that in other spaces. I think so. Yeah, I think
just that place of honesty before God and that
sense of grounding in his love and presence lets
you take down many of the barriers that we can
build up when connecting with others and so You
know, it really does begin with that grounding
in God because knowing that you're in that space
of acceptance and forgiveness and love allows
you to be less to lean into vulnerability a little
more. Sure. And that is so vital for healthy
connections. So, yeah, I'd say that. Very good.
That's good. And I think I think with solitude,
it's also your time that you can bring all your
troubles and problems to God and all your frustrations
and You can vent to God and God's just there
to listen. You're not gonna get any You're not
gonna get any response or like any sort of pushback
or negativity and it allows It allows you to
say how you really feel and sometimes confronting
yourself is also bringing up whatever darkness
is in in you that you don't that you obviously
try to resist in real life, and you're allowing
yourself to get it all out and free yourself
from that and then you can go ahead and deal
with the world. Yeah, I think there's like an
interplay there between the practice of solitude
and the practice of prayer. I think solitude
often begins with active prayer, where we are
saying, okay, I have to get all of this stuff
out. And like you said, whatever those emotions
are, God is like, bring it all. And then it moves
into a kind of listening prayer, where you said,
okay, God, here's all of the things. Now, what
are you going to do about it? Right. And sometimes
that is actually the question, God, what are
you going to do about it? And sometimes it's
more of, okay, so God, what do you have to say
about this? Right. Like there are different moods
that we can sort of bring to that. But yeah.
just laying it all out there. Okay, so then how
do we practice solitude? Like if you were to
think about practically, what does this look
like? How can we encourage people and help people
who are trying to figure out how to do this?
Like what, what would you sort of say about that?
So like, Hugh, when you think about your daily
practice of of solitude, like what are some like
really practical things that are helpful for
you as you think about that? Well, have a good
coffee ready. Okay. God likes coffee. And the
physical space, as I said earlier, is really
important. The separation from the noise in the
house or wherever you are. So a quiet place in
the house, wherever that quiet place is for you.
Sure. And then... Some people find it easier
to have some quiet music in the background. Sure.
It can be a monastic type of music, which is
very, very soothing. Yeah. Bulgarian chants,
for instance. And some people could put a candle,
you know, a lot of candle or breathing exercises
are also very helpful, you know. taking deep
breaths, counting to ten, and then inhaling and
exhaling, counting to ten, holding and counting
to ten, and you do three or five repetitions
of this, and it just calms you down, you know,
and makes you more receptive. So those are little
things that you can do to get you in that receptive
mode, because solitude is trying to get your
soul to be receptive. So those are the things
that I have found helpful over the years. For
sure, yeah. I will say that if, you know, a special
room or something is impossible, I mean, some
things like taking a walk, just anywhere where
you can disconnect from all the concerns and
allow yourself that space of reflection matters.
There's this amazing story that I remember from
years ago where John and Charles Wesley, like
their moms, A parent like they had a small house
growing up. They had so many kids. There was
no special place she could go to. But what she
would do was just put her apron over her head
and sit down by the table. But which they all
knew that when mom had her apron over her head,
she was praying. You have to be quiet. And that's
and I think what what that shows is, first of
all, that you don't you may not need to do it
alone. You can get someone around like there
are people around you who can. who know, like
who you share this with, right? Or you create
that space. For me, it's just going into my bedroom,
right? And praying for 10 minutes or whatever
it is. Yeah, just creating those moments of spaces
of intentionality and not just keeping to yourself
too. If you need others to know that that's what
you're doing and create that space for yourself,
you know, get them on board. And so sharing that,
I mean, we say this with students or graduates
too, like get your partner to, you know, take
the kids if you are having kids for the half
an hour that you need to just write. So get that
support around you as well. So those things can
help a lot. Big and small, do what... works for
you, but also don't necessarily only do it alone.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's interesting. Solitude
as a practice that you do, you need a community
of support that allows you to do that. And this
is just something that occurred that, you know,
Jesus would have told people, don't follow me.
I'm going off to be alone, to pray. and I will
join you later, right? And so he would have had
to actually make that very clear to all his disciples
who are following him everywhere. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. So for sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.
Anything you would add to that model? I guess
I guess I would say, especially because this
is kind of a new concept for me is treated like
treated like meditation, but with the intention
of listening to God and trying to you know empty
your your mind of the distractions and and I
think as well like with other forms of meditation
is important to that it's okay if you're if you
can't empty your mind right away or if you have
a hard time with it you know because again it's
a learned practice it's not something that is
instinctual so I think just I think if you just,
you know, even just carve out five minutes or
something and quiet, again, music is definitely
a good tool for that too, you know, but just,
you know, just try to carve out even a little
bit of time in a meditative space and try to
see what... but comes of it for sure for sure
yeah i think the other thing that comes to mind
to me like i want to go back a little bit to
what you said at the beginning about this idea
of ships passing by and not jumping on board
any of those thought boats or thought trains
um yeah and and one of the things that i find
helpful in that sometimes is having is you call
it like a mantra but having like a phrase or
something that you come back to and so it could
be as simple as just saying jesus and repeating
that either out loud or in your mind. A couple
of other ones that I sometimes find helpful is,
again, like words right from scripture. So things
like be still and know that I am God. Sometimes
I will just repeat that to myself over and over
and over again. Or there's this story in the
Old Testament where I think it's Samuel as a
child is at the temple. And what he's instructed
to say is like, speak, Lord, your servant is
listening. Right. And so just being able to say
that speak, Lord, I'm listening. Right. And just
opening that space and reminding yourself that
that's what's happening here. And actually inviting
God very intentionally into that as well. I mean,
I know sometimes if they're really tired and
I'm praying with the kids and, you know, it's
too much of an effort to. pray your own prayers,
we'll very quickly say things that we would like.
But then we end with Psalm 23. Right. That tends
to be the one that we say together. Yeah. And
it's just such a good reminder of saying he is
up. He's like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And so he
is a shepherd. And that that, again, has become
a kind of prayer we we say on an ongoing basis.
So that's good. Yeah. Well, I would say, you
know, in sort of in summary. because we've talked
about the challenges of solitude. Be kind to
yourself. For sure, for sure. Because so if you
can't do five minutes, you can't do five minutes.
Go back the next day, you know, the next day.
Yeah. Eventually it will happen. Yeah. And when
it happens, your soul will be nourished. For
sure. For sure. Yeah. Don't be impatient. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Just take some time. And when you
feel the impatience coming up with yourself,
like just like take a breath. move on like don't
get stuck in the impatience yeah yeah for sure
yeah well thank you so much folks i think this
has been a really helpful dive into a practice
that is maybe really new for a lot of people
and that is definitely really hard for a lot
of people um but yeah acknowledging the challenges
looking forward to the rewards and finding those
those practical small steps that we can take
to build up our ability to just sit in the presence
of God. Yeah and looking forward to the rest
of our series as we continue to build on some
different practices and how we can actually make
space to make our whole lives a way of following
Jesus together. Thank you for tuning in to this
week's episode of Trinity Talks. I hope you will
continue to join in as we continue these practices
together and that this week you're able to find
maybe even two minutes, five minutes to spend
some time alone in the presence of God and to
allow God to speak words of love and kindness
and generosity towards you.