Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana.
I'm Elizabeth. I'm a Marvel. And today we are
continuing our journey in a series called This
Is The Way, where we're learning about what it
means to follow Jesus and how some of these different
spiritual practices that we have, like prayer
and Bible reading and fasting and worshiping
together, all help us to become more like Jesus
and to learn to love Jesus more. And today we
are talking about... the Bible, which is, I think,
a really important part of our faith. Obviously,
it's sort of the basis of our faith, but it can
also be a really confusing part of our faith
at different moments. And so I'm excited to sort
of unpack that with all of you and see, yeah,
how has the Bible informed our lives and how
can we work through it together? So as we get
started here, the first question that I just
want to have is like, what has been your experience
with the Bible? How has it been sort of part
of your spiritual life? Do you want to start
us off a model? Sure. You know, it's been it
hasn't been as big of a part because I've only
been doing this for about a year. But I definitely
it's definitely interesting when it's. when like
when rob does like a sermon series or so like
the seven letters to the church or when we did
the sermon on the mount series because i'm able
to sort of like read it before and sort of get
in that headspace or just sort of be able to
try to at least have a view or a theory of what
what's actually happening sure and uh but i mean
the bible it's it's definitely an important piece
of uh of of being a christian you know and i
actually wrote it down that when it comes to
the the uh like the words of the bible you know
or whenever you're reading from the bible um
you should be looking for it to be an answer
a reminder a comfort or a message okay you know
and there's there's no empty words in the bible
there's not You know, there's no filler. There's
no nothing. You know, there's everything is meant
to be there. Sure. And I mean, there's times
where you just like you're reading through it
and you're like, I don't get it. For sure. You
don't have much of a reaction. And then other
times it really hits you, you know. And I mean,
sometimes that's how God communicates, you know,
open up to this scripture or some, you know,
or someone brings up. you know, Bible verse on
your Facebook feed and you're like, wow, I really
needed to hear this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I, I resonate with that. There are definitely
moments where it just feels like, okay, I'm doing
this like as a faithful practice and following
God, but it doesn't feel super like deeply meaningful.
But then there are other moments where it's like,
wow, this feels like life changing in some ways.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What about for you, Elizabeth?
How's reading the Bible been sort of part of
your life? It's been part of my daily life because
it's the Word of God, and it was written by inspiration
through other people in the Bible. So it's the
anchor to my faith, and it's like the compass
that directs our path. So it's a good way. To
get closer to God through reading the Word of
God. Okay, yeah. And so what has the practice
of reading the Bible looked like in your life?
Is that something that you do really regularly,
or is it something that you find hard to do at
times? I do it regularly, to be sincere, because
it's been part of my life. It's like a comforting
book that I read daily. Okay. And sometimes even
if I wake up in the morning and I can't go through
the whole chapter or some verses that I really
want, then later in the day, I will still go
back and read it. Yeah. So it's a really strong
central sort of part of your faith. That's awesome.
Yeah. What about for you, Jordana? Oh, I'll say
that. I think it used to be a very strong central
part of my faith. I think more growing up, mostly
in my teenage years where I would reach for it
very often and read through and, you know, go
through the letters of Paul and the gospels and
things like that. I think. More recently, I've
been less consistent. Sure. You know, there have
been times of frustration and I'll go back and
then I'll stop and I'll go back and then I'll
stop this constant cycle of beginning again that
I've... I need to work on. And so it's nice to
do the series, but certainly I think back to
those times when I was very consistent and reading
and memorizing and, you know, as very formative
and grounding and just God's grace, because that
when you do that, it ends up carrying you through
tough times. You know, you rep, you're able to
recall passages that can be comforting, or you
can recall passages where you reach for, God's
presence. And, um, I will say that, you know,
I should get back to that. Sure. Sure. Yeah.
I think it's hard, like just in different seasons
of our lives where there are different things
happening, it can be hard to like make that space.
Yes, for sure. For sure. Even though we know
that it's good for us, even though we know that
it will bring us joy and comfort and all these
things, making that space is hard. Yes, it is
for sure. For sure. Um, So when we think about
the Bible, I think you had just told us a little
bit about going to buy a Bible. Yes, yes. Do
you want to just share what that was like? Well,
when I first started thinking about being serious
with Christianity and went to go buy a Bible,
and it's like, you know, I thought, okay, there's
like one version. Is it? You know, just like,
you know, maybe like the King's James version.
You know, that's what everybody knows, right?
Sure. I go, and then there's like six or seven
or eight different Bibles. I'm like. uh which
do i choose yes yeah and then and then online
people will be like debating oh don't use this
version don't use that version only go with this
version yes or when you're doing or when you're
reading go through this version when you're getting
serious going in this version and this is like
yes you know it's like You know, it becomes almost
like a supermarket where you can't, you know,
where it's like, you know, you, you know, you
think you go for one thing and you can get confused
by all the different versions. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
So there is this, this different translations
is one of the things that makes it hard for us
to read the Bible, hard to understand what it
is. And so I think before we go any further,
we should maybe spend some time on that. Like
what, what is the Bible and how do we read? it.
Yeah, Elizabeth, when you think about what is
the Bible, what would you sort of say? To me,
I would say the Bible introduces us to the full
66 books of the Bible according to the description
within. In Old Testament, we have 39 while in
the New Testament we have 27 books. So, and,
excuse me, it is written in a chronological order,
according to the inspiration that was given to
those individuals that wrote the Bible. Okay.
Yeah. So it's this whole collection. I think
the first part that's important there is that
it's 66 books, that it is one book bound together,
but it is actually, 66 different scrolls. We
call them books, but they were originally printed
as a bunch of different scrolls. Right. And so
they're each coming from a slightly different
perspective, each telling a different piece of
the story. And so if you just pick up your Bible
and start reading it at Genesis and try to read
it all the way through, you can do that. But
you're going to find that like. Some of the pieces
don't make sense without some of the other pieces,
I think. And some pieces are telling you the
same story in two different ways. And, you know,
you actually end up having to navigate how that
story is being told in very different ways at
different times. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm just
thinking of the four Gospels, right? You know,
as the most. obvious example of what's happening
there with Jesus' life. It's not one biography.
It's four different early biographical writings,
first century biographical writings. So I would
say that having a sense that there are very different
times being in context. ways of telling narratives
and different genres in there all come into play
in some of the challenges of reading the Bible.
For sure. And at the same time, recognizing there's
a coherence to it. It has a beginning. It has
an end. There's a sense of God constantly drawing
humans to himself over time in different ways,
in different cultures, culminating in Jesus.
And so there is that overall coherence, even
as... um there's such a difference as well yeah
yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah yeah i think
like one of the things that christian dd johnson
who gave our sermon at trinity today talked about
was like the importance of understanding like
the genre yeah that that you're looking at right
that like some of these things are biography
some of these things are history some of these
things are poetry and if we try to read the poetry
as if it is a historical narrative we're going
to get really confused and if we try to read
the story the letters of Paul as if they were
poetry, we're also going to get really confused,
right? Like, so understanding some of those differences.
I will also say that what makes it challenging
is sometimes those genres are not as clear cut.
Sure. Like, you know, Psalms is poetry predominantly
and prophecy and history. And you know what I
mean? Genres are nice to get a sense in a very
broad way of what's happening. And then they
get muddied very fast. Sure. And so, yeah, so
to actually figure out what's going on and how
people are speaking in that moment or how they
are writing in that moment is, it can be a challenge.
Yeah. Yeah. And I know one resource that several
of us have sort of mentioned is the Bible Project
is like one way that it's this whole website
that has a whole bunch of videos and podcasts
and different blogs and things that help us figure
out, OK, what is it that we're reading? Where
does it fit into the story of Scripture? All
of that is really helpful in. And I've used the
Bible Project quite a bit to get a sense of the
overviews of each book are really well explained.
The thematic videos are really well done. And
so I've used it a lot for understanding what's
happening. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So then when
you think about how do we read the Bible, what
would you sort of say in terms of, yeah, like
strategies or just like ways and practices? Being
a part of a life group, especially for our church
with the sermon questions, is a great way because
there's always at least one passage of the Bible
that's being highlighted and then questions on
it. And I think just being involved with people
that you can be like, I didn't really get this
or what do you think this means? I think that's
one way as well. Yeah, I mean, I think that's
probably one of the best ways I've seen it, you
know. Or sometimes if you even just like other
people might have a teaching series on YouTube
or so where they'll go through a certain book
of the Bible and they'll say, you know, how this
relates to our modern day. Sure. Because one
of the biggest challenge is. It's context. Sure.
Because, you know, like, you know, it's just
like if you wrote a book a hundred years ago,
it wouldn't read the same as something today.
Right. And this is like, you know, a couple thousand,
sometimes like 5 ,000 years ago. And then when
you add in the fact that you're trying to translate
words as accurate as possible, you know, it gets
challenging. For sure. For sure. Yeah. So having
some like wise teachers and having a community
of people to read together. But I think understanding
that the intention is always good. Intention
is to understand God's word. Right. That's the
that's the key, because there's a lot, of course,
for people that are against Christianity. They
you know, they always say, oh, you know, like
there's there's so many changes. It's inconsistent.
There's things that have been taken out. There's
been. you know different versions and all this
kind of stuff but you got to look at the heart
and the intention sure i gotta believe that people
that are that are you know doing even different
versions of the bible or even the idea of translating
the bible into different languages and dialects
you know it comes from a good place it comes
from the idea of spreading the word and spreading
the gospel sure yeah yeah yeah What about you?
How would you talk about, like, what are different
ways of reading the Bible that you found helpful?
I've read the Bible through devotional reading.
This is when I read a passage of the scripture
and meditating on what God is saying to me. The
second one is analytical Bible reading. This
is reading for someone or Bible study. focusing
on religious instruction and moral disclosure.
Okay, so reading it devotionally, like reading
it to sort of apply it to your own life, and
then reading it homiletically, like as a way
of trying to help other people understand it.
Yeah, okay. And then the academic part of it
is about learning more about the narrative part
of the Bible. Then the chronological reading
of the Bible is in order that invent and actually
historically. Okay. And then the gospel immersion
reading through the gospel and acts multiple
times to understand the life of Jesus. And theological
and social historical examining the text. through
its original uh contents auto intense and cultural
background okay so then like there's lots of
different ways we can read the bible so like
how do you think we like how do you learn to
do some of these different things like are these
all things that you practice Yeah, because I
went to Bible college. Okay. So somebody taught
you about these different methods. Yeah. I see.
I see. Yeah. But I think even for those of us,
you know, if we don't go to Bible school or if
we don't, you know, have these different things,
I think starting by asking, you know, what am
I hoping to get out of this? What is the way
that I'm reading this? Am I reading it for information?
Am I reading it? To grow closer to God? Am I
reading it because I need to teach somebody else
about it? Like these different methods. Before
I went to Bible school, I've been reading Bible.
But sometimes I struggle with it because, you
know, you're reading certain chapter, but the
understanding is not there. You pray to God and
Holy Spirit for. you know, and understanding.
So I always, then I, you know, I research a lot
about when I am reading certain chapter, then
I go and research. So to get full knowledge of
what I'm reading. Bible has been, you know, part
of my life, but sometimes you still, reading
certain chapter and you struggle with it you
know so everybody is not perfect you know we
grow daily day by day so that's it about the
bible yeah yeah yeah yeah being able to have
some of those resources and knowing that even
just knowing it's okay it's normal to be confused
or just struggle through it yeah yeah what about
for you jordana i think the times that i've enjoyed
the Bible most is when I've had the time to read
longer passages. I think what frustrates me is
when you don't have the time and you're reading
shorter ones and then they get disconnected from
each other. And for me, that kind of reading
doesn't work very well. I tend to go, I'm at,
I don't know, chapter five and I've forgotten
what chapter one's about. And it just feels these,
even though you're trying to be consistent with
it, the narrative flow and structure and the
things that bring meaning. through the way the
story is told, it gets lost, I think, for me
in those smaller passages. And those are times
when I've been most frustrated and inconsistent,
I think, when I've done it piecemeal, when I've
had the time to sit and read longer passages
or read a book or read, you know, those are the
times when I've gotten, have got the most out
of it or felt that I'm encountering the story
more fully. And so that, I think it's personal.
Some people really like those small passages
and allow it lets you meditate in those moments.
I have had that where I've begun to read a chapter
and then I've been arrested by something small
and I've had to just stop and pray or listen
more and focus on it. But it's that ability to
go through that has been most helpful for me.
Yeah. Yeah. And that makes me think like often
we think about practices like, you know, prayer
and scripture reading and we say, OK, I need
to set aside. five minutes or 10 minutes every
day to do it. And, and yeah, sure. Do that. If
that works for you, that's like really great.
I would definitely encourage that. But I think
there's also something to be said about, okay,
maybe once a week, maybe once a month, I set
aside a chunk of hours to sort of be like, okay,
I'm just going to read through the gospel of
Matthew, or I'm just going to read through this,
the letter of Romans or whatever it is. Right.
And to sort of get that arc that you can't get
if you're reading it like a few verses at a time,
which I know we're, I'm jumping way ahead, but,
uh, you know, it's like, I think if you, you
know, to book up, uh, to block out that time,
you know, I guess if you're trying to keep the
Sabbath or like trying to disconnect from everything,
that's the good time to. For sure. Because I
was just going to say, like, Jordan, how long
does it take to read those longer passages, you
know? It depends on the book. Like, if it's one
of the letters of Paul, which are four or five
or six chapters, it's only 45 minutes, you know?
Like, it's one hour. Even when you say only 45
minutes, people are just like, I don't even want,
I maybe have five minutes. True, true. I mean,
so that is something that I can't do every, I
shouldn't say can't, like, honestly, but. It's
more challenging. It's when you're reading something
that's 30, 40, 50 chapters long. Right, yes.
Maybe you can't sit down and read the whole book
of Genesis in one sitting. Yeah, all at once.
But Genesis is almost easier to do because there's
so many stories. Sure, sure. Leviticus, definitely
not. Yeah, definitely not. And then even with
that, it's like, if you're reading it, are you
really absorbing it? Or are you reading it like...
Well, you're not reading it just once, right?
So at that time, you might read it once. But
because you've got a sense of structure, narrative,
and flow, as you reread things... I'm a literature
student, right? So read one. And there's no such
thing as reading one. It's like all reading is
rereading. And then you read for more detail
the next time. You don't want to treat it like
a book report. You know, read this chapter and
then write a little blurb, you know, like afterwards.
But you definitely get the details and things
you miss the first time come alive more when
you've read it more than once. Right. And so
we are talking about a book that we are. hopefully
reading more than once. Sure. And I think reading
it prayerfully and reading it. So you talked
about, you know, not right, not doing it like
a book report where you're like making notes
and things, but sometimes for some people, myself
included, making notes isn't for a book report.
It's for me. I understand it better when I can
make a note in the margin or in a journal or
whatever it is. Right. I mean, going back to
rereading it, I think sometimes you maybe get
it at certain points in your life or stages in
your life, because I guess, I think sometimes
maybe it's like there's parts of the Bible that
are really effective, like when you're a young
single person and then when you're a parent and
then maybe when you're in your later years in
life, you know. Yeah. And then, you know, you
still read it, but it's like it really hits differently.
Sure. And like the same passage can mean something
different to me today than it meant to me five
years ago than it will mean to me five years
from now. Yeah. Yeah. Even when I listen to Rob
Salmon, I make a note. And when I go home, maybe
it might be later in the evening before I go
to bed. I still watch online, you know, just
to, you know, assimilate everything that he said
during the service. Yeah. yeah yeah for sure
so when you think about like some of the challenges
of reading the bibles we've talked about you
know making time for it but i think you also
a novel made reference to like the context of
the bible it can be really hard to understand
sometimes yeah um yeah do we have any tips or
ideas for like yeah how how do we deal with that
challenge of the Bible? I know Elizabeth, you
talked about, you know, leaning, going to Bible
school, obviously super helpful, but even just,
you know, talking to one another, talking to
priests or to Bible scholars and things like
that, or finding them on the internet. The most
challenging part of reading the Bible is like,
translating from, you know, like Hebrew, because
Bible is written in so many languages, Hebrew,
Aramaic, Greek, and there are distant cultures.
So this creates a distant distraction for me,
you know, to make it... difficult to understand
the original context requiring serious study
you know because sometimes i stay in the in the
library for three to four hours okay well when
i really want to dig in you know sure to study
the bible and maybe if it might just be sat in
the chapter but i will search research go back
and forth you know searching until I'm fully
filled and understand what I'm reading. Sure.
Sure. Yeah. A lot of commitment. I think in a
way, sometimes the best is when it's you, you
have long form content on like even just a couple
of lines or a passage in the Bible. So you can
really, really get the full idea or context or
just like different clips. Like, for example,
like one of the ones that I was thinking about
is, When Jesus dies on the cross, he says, it
is done. Yeah. Or it is finished. Yeah. And apparently
in the original, what he said, he said one, I
think he said one word. Yeah. That has three
different contexts in that one word. Right. You
know, like, or like in, I think one was to do
with debt. One was to do with like. like serving
your time as like in, uh, like if you go to prison
and then the other is like conquering. Okay.
All in one word. Right. You know, so, you know,
just trying to like interpretation. Exactly.
So I just, I think sometimes, you know, even
just like, you know, like whether, even if you're
not going to Trinity church, but you're going
to another church, just, you know, focusing on,
you know, are the pastors talking about, one
section and how deep depth are they going and
sure you know and again like even stuff like
with the bible project you know and like again
again it's just trying to understand the context
and i think as well sometimes like even if you
read a section when you finish it can you look
go back and say what was the section about sure
and your interpretation of it sure sure yeah
yeah oh Consistency. But I want to speak a little
bit more as you were talking about why there
is that struggle with consistency. Sure. And
that sense of, you know, you begin really well,
you go on a few days, maybe in a few weeks, and
then there's a resistance that builds up. Sure.
A sense of not wanting to sit in some of the
difficult passages. And I think very often the
real battle tends to be. that space where you
begin to not want to sit in that space. It's
an internal battle very often. You know, you
can fill that space up then very easily by saying,
I have 25 ,000 things to do, right? But it's
that inability to sit in that silence and that
space and ask what it is you are expecting, where
maybe have your expectations fallen, and what
are you hoping? for in the time where you sit
with the word and i and i'm reflecting on how
much i sometimes avoid that space sure after
a while when a bit of fatigue comes in and what
it might mean to be able to say it's okay to
feel that and at the same time to recognize that
you know there are all kinds of pressures and
i have to say the battle is spiritual right i
do want to say that We are speaking as if it's
only happening at the sort of horizontal level
where it's time and space and consistency. But
I know there is a spiritual element to this where
I think we can be worn down and not feel that
God's working fast enough or what's happened,
you know, or the confusion of the Bible makes
it difficult to work and sit in those. that space
of mystery, let the spirit work. Yeah. That can
be hard. For sure. So I do want to, so that struggle
and the internal reflection may, may help me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I wanted to just give
voice to some of that internal struggle. For
sure. Yeah. And we live in a distracting world
anyways. It's a very go, go, go world. I mean,
even when, even when you think of like what work
culture is, right. You know, it's, you know you're
putting plenty of hours and then you you're you're
spending hours in traffic and then you yeah and
then if you have a family well then you know
you're you're trying to take the kids this place
in that place and yeah you know and sometimes
you just don't you want to zone out and not think
about the last thing you want to think about
is the bible sure but i mean even though we should
you know yeah but it's uh you know Yeah, there's
a lot competing for our attention. But yeah,
I mean, I think, Jordana, I think you probably
represent a lot of modern Christians. We want
to be doing better with reading the Bible and
everything like that. But it's, you know, you
got to fight to make that time and sit in there
and, you know. Even if it is five minutes or
whatever. Sure. Yeah. I think the other piece
that I want to sort of say in all this is we
spent quite a bit of time talking about, you
know, understanding the Bible and understanding
the context of what is it and how do we read
these different genres and things. And I think
that is all really valuable work. I think we
also need to accept the mystery of the spirit
of God in the text and in our. in amongst us
right so there are going to be things about the
bible that we just won't understand and there
are going to be things about the bible that like
god will work through us even if we never understand
the context or even if we don't go to bible school
or if we don't do this scholarly work like god
is still speaking and yeah and i think uh kristen
spoke about it today that approaching it with
humility right because if you think you're going
to go there and master that text in that moment
it's always going to speak to you in exactly
that the way you need yeah you're going to get
frustrated over time for sure right so that space
of humility where you let the text work on you
yeah um It takes patience and it takes trust.
For sure. For sure, yeah. So thank you so much,
folks. Just as we end, there's a few resources
that I just want to mention. So as we said, the
Bible Project is a really great resource. Amavu,
you shared that you have a Bible app on your
phone. That's a really great resource. There
are audio Bible apps and websites as well. So
if you're someone who doesn't like reading, but
you'd rather listen while you're out for a run
or while you're driving, whatever, listening
to the Bible. And then taking some time to really
understand the... the narrative of the Bible.
Like Jordana had mentioned earlier this week,
this idea of sometimes we just need to go back
to the children's Bible so that we can get the
whole story, get the whole arc and understand
how all the pieces fit together. And I think
that's, that's a really insightful take. So yeah,
hopefully some of those resources are helpful
to you as our listeners, as you continue in your
journey of scripture, whether that is something
that is brand new to you or something you've
been doing for a really long time. And we will
see you again next week.