Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and I'm really
glad that you're joining us because we have a
really interesting conversation here with these
three folks who have all come to Trinity at different
times, but actually all came from Trinity in
Dubai. And so excited to sort of hear more about
that story and what has brought you folks here
and what that experience has been like. So maybe
we'll start with some introductions, and you
can just tell us your name, a little bit about
yourself, and maybe what brought you here to
Canada or to Trinity. So do you want to get us
started? Hi, yeah, sure. Yeah, my name is Pradeep
Benjamin. So we moved to Canada in 2013. Okay.
Before that, we visited... Canada in 2008 okay
for a vacation uh that time okay we like this
place sure and also our kids were coming up to
the university age so we thought you know it's
a good place to move okay um So we applied in
2009, I think, and we got, it was perfect timing.
He moved here in 2013. Okay. And I already had
a job, so it made it easier. Okay. And were you
coming from the UAE at that point in 2012? Yes,
I was. Actually, yeah. Okay. Okay. Very cool.
Yeah. My name is Naraya. I'm with the DUI program
here in Holy Trinity. I mean, Trinity Church,
Streetsville. Also came from Holy Trinity, Dubai,
but only came to Canada for like my education.
I was trying to do a master's in business administration.
Very cool. And then so this was in January 2022.
And then, so yeah, I came for that. But I joined
this church because God called me when I was
in Calgary. He was like, yeah, I need you here
in Toronto. And then he opened up that door through
Rob and the DIY program. And yeah, so like now
I'm here wanting to serve. Okay, very cool. Yeah.
Hi, my name is James. We actually came to Canada
in 2003. 2003, okay. So you've been here the
longest. Yeah, but I've been traveling back and
forth because until 2020, I was still working
in Dubai. Ah, okay. So during the COVID time,
I thought enough is enough, and I came back.
Sure. But my son, he stayed back from 2003 to
study to do his university. Okay. He stayed back
and my wife joined him. Okay. So they were here
and I was going back and forth. And you were
sort of back and forth. Okay. Okay. And since
2020, you've just sort of mostly stayed around
here feeling more settled. Okay. Yeah. So then
I'm wondering, you've all sort of been here different
amounts of times, different things sort of brought
you here. What was your sort of first impression
of coming to Canada and maybe how has that changed
over time? Okay. That's a good one. Actually,
when I first came to Canada, I was in Calgary.
Okay. And I have a Brazilian side of my family,
so it was just a Latin experience. Oh, okay.
Nothing Canadian at all. Okay, interesting. Except
the weather itself, of course. But in terms of
like the culture that I did experience when I
was in Vancouver and Halifax, that was very different
because like, you know, everybody goes like,
oh, Canada is like the best. The people are the
best. They're so nice. And I was like, well,
there were quite a few mean people in my class.
Sure. Yeah. So it was very it was very different,
like to see how people here talk very differently.
They're a lot more considerate, a lot more nicer,
for sure. um but it's also like in terms of like
Canada being like like back home it's like oh
it's like the dreamland right if you're in Canada
you've just prospered in life you've reached
heaven so yeah so it's very like I like how grounded
it is here compared to what it is back home I
feel like back home it's very superficial materialistic
okay and stuff so yeah that that was um how my
first impression and then my current impression
seems like now. Okay, yeah. So it was, like,
maybe this sort of vision and, like, dreamland.
Yeah. And it's maybe some of that. Yeah. But,
like, we're rounded people, too. Yeah, yeah.
It's not all dreamy and perfect. Exactly. Which
I like. I like the realistic, you know, like,
low -pressure kind of atmosphere that this place
has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah.
Yeah, once we left India... In 1992, we went
to Dubai, and we were exposed to the multicultural
setup. Sure. So moving from there to here, it
was a bit of a change, of course. It was a lot
of a change. Whether it was easy to adjust, whether
people are good, friendly, and we were able to
get to know the system quite well. Sure. Very
simplified system, nothing complicated. So it
was easy to, you know. adjust to this country
sure yeah yeah yeah so the dubai as you said
was sort of multicultural absolutely yeah yeah
and so the mississauga sort of matched that in
some ways yeah Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What about you,
Pradeep? For me, you know, I worked in the oil
industry. Okay. So since 1986, I've been kind
of working outside India in many different countries.
Sure. So I was exposed to very different cultures,
you know, diametrically opposite. Yeah. Like
work, living in Japan to living in Yemen. Okay.
Yeah. And also like for before. Moving to Canada,
my company, we had a, we worked with a Canadian
company called Canadian Nexen. Okay. So for about
four, four and a half years, I worked with them.
So I was like, I had a lot of Canadian friends.
Sure. But most of them from Calgary. Okay. So
they were the one, they were also instrumental
in me coming here because they were pushing me
to move to Calgary and, you know, start working
there. But unfortunately or fortunately, the
bottom of the oil industry fell off during that
time. But I already got the PR. So I said, all
right, instead of Calgary, move over here. Sure.
That's how. For me, it was not a big. There's
not much adjustment necessary because, like,
you know, I've been exposed to it. Sure. But
for my kids and the family, yes, there is. It
was a change. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So as you think
about, like, navigating these different cultures,
like, what is that experience like as, you know,
whether it's in Dubai and navigating all these
different cultures or sort of coming here and
trying to figure out Canadian culture? Like,
is that what are some of the challenges in that?
In Dubai, it is very different from anywhere
else in the world because you don't get to interact
or meet with the locals because, you know, you
have people coming from all over the world to
work there, right? So you are only exposed to
them. You are very rarely exposed to somebody.
Okay, interesting. So everybody sort of comes
from somewhere else. And besides the church also,
like, okay, it was an Anglican church, but we
had more than 120, 130 congregations there. We
had a main church building. We had about 20 different
halls. So on a weekend, like from morning five
o 'clock, we have different congregations worshiping
there. Okay. Wow. That's a lot of congregations.
Yeah. one was like a different i don't know like
a different denomination different country sect
whatever it is okay okay so it was always like
new okay um there's never like how uncle says
like it's nothing like that is or the arabic
culture is right there no it's very mixed okay
the languages are very mixed yeah yeah yeah we
had um you know egyptian orthodox to ethiopian
to They had one congregation from Brazil, too.
So it was very diverse. And the only time we
got together was during Christmas time, we had
a unified carols in the compound. So all the
churches are like, it's a three, three and a
half hour program. Each church would come and
sing a carol. Okay, very cool. Well, the interesting
thing is the country of United Arab Emirates,
it was formed in the year 1971. Okay. But the
church, The Holy Trinity Church started one year
before that. Ah, okay. Because the land for that
particular church was given by the ruler, Sheikh
Rashid, we call him Sheikh Rashid. Okay. He gave
the land and the church was built in 1970. Okay.
But the country was formed in 1971. Uh -huh.
And a very interesting concept, the church itself
was actually, they gave it as a non -denominational.
Okay, sure. But it is kind of managed by the
Anglican Church. Okay. So like Pradeep said,
we have about 120 different groups of people
worshipping in the same compound. Sure. And last
time when I went there in the month of October,
I was talking to somebody, and they said the
footfall each weekend is about 10 ,000 to 11
,000 people. Wow. Coming into the compound. Yeah.
So it's a very amazing experience, you know,
the church -wise. And earlier, we used to worship
on Fridays. Yes. And not on Sundays. Okay. Yeah,
our weekend was Friday, Saturday, not Saturday,
Sunday. Ah, because that's how the schedule worked
in Dubai? Yeah. Because that's the Islamic culture,
right? And Friday is a holiday for them. They
go to the mosque and namaz and things like that.
Right. So Friday was a holiday. Only about five
years ago, they switched to Saturday, Sunday.
Ah, okay. Interesting. Yeah. So you usually had
church on Friday then? Yeah, we had it on Friday.
But on Sunday evenings, they used to have a worship
in the Trinity Church. So sort of a little bit
of both. Yeah, a little bit of both. And when
you folks were all part of the Trinity Church
in Dubai, were you in the same congregation or
were you in different congregations? I was in
different congregations. Okay. I went to the
Tamil Church. Okay. They also worship the same
compound. Yeah. But I used to go to the English
service also. Okay. And even now when I go back,
I mean, I keep visiting Dubai. I go to the English
church. I attend the English church because I
have a lot of people there I know. Yeah. And
I know the pastor also. But I do also know the
Tamil church congregation and once in a while
go there. Okay. But I was a member of the Tamil
church. Yeah. But worshiping both here and there.
Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, me and Pradeep
uncle, we've been in the same Anglican, the main
congregation. In the English service? In the
English service, yeah. Okay. And so what was
that experience like? Like being part of, you
know, your own little congregation, but within
120 congregations. Like, yeah, just describe,
like, how does that build a sense of church for
you? Or how is that sort of similar or different
to what we're doing here? I could share like
a small incident that kind of like threw me off.
But basically, there was a time when the church
was being renovated, right? They're trying to
make more space and whatever, like in the main
hall itself. But they were also like renovating
a few rooms around the compound as well. And
I remember when they were first renovating it,
they were like, hey, we're going to be shifting
the service into another place of the same compound.
And I was like, okay, great. And I got lost.
I didn't know where I was going. And I ended
up in the Ethiopian Orthodox. church okay and
it was very different I walked in and I was like
am I in a different world like what is this and
I had no idea because I knew that there were
other groups and congregations I was very young
sure but I didn't know that there were like so
many different traditions and the cultures have
their own thing going on right like very different
ways of doing church yeah yeah and so that was
that threw me off and I was like you know what
I just want to go home now a little disorienting
yeah yeah but um the like to compare like what
holy trinity was to this i would say is a lot
more traditional because we we have like over
there it's like choir we sing hymns sure and
then here we know that there are hymns being
played here but it's very like contemporary style
almost country as well yeah and so um this is
something that i discussed with uh leah as well
your daughter um but we were talking about how
that threw us off sure as well because we're
like we're we're used to the d thousand nine
and whatever to like go into like a contemporary
we're like this is not how it is we don't want
this sure so yeah there's like a few things that
for us were like Or like for me, I'm like, yeah,
you know what? I like the difference that's there.
That's very evident. But also I like how the
tradition was back home because I'm just used
to it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all sometimes
want to lean back into what feels like familiar
and comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty
amazing to see when you go to the church, you
know, you see a group of people worshipping Tamil
and another place people were worshipping in
Malayalam and somebody worshipping Urdu and,
you know, multiple languages. And it's pretty
awesome. It's pretty awesome, you know, the way
people gather and worship, you know. I mean,
it gives you kind of goosebumps at times. Right,
that's one thing. The other thing is, I mean,
she was talking about the... liturgy that we
followed there, particularly Anglican, it's slowly
changing. Over the past three months, once a
week, once a month, they have a contemporary
worship in the Anglican church. They have started
that because they realized that, okay, maybe
some youngsters like the contemporary worship,
so let's do that. I think the last Sunday of
every month they are doing it. They have two
services. Normally they used to have only one.
Okay. Now this contemporary worship starts a
little earlier. Sure. And they finish that and
then they go to the regular worship. Okay. Yeah.
For me, the big change or the difference between
Dubai, as well as in the other churches in Asia
and here, is, you know, there it's more formal.
Like she said in her answer, it's more formal.
And one thing that threw me off is the music
because I grew up with the typical traditional
hymns. Okay, sure. I love them, but unfortunately
you don't get to see that here. And another one
is, I think they have changed here, but they
follow the King James Version Bible. Okay. So
that's why all this dao di, all this. Sure, sure,
sure, sure. And especially when you do the Lord's
Prayer, because we, you know, they recite it
the old way. So sometimes it kind of throws us
off. Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
so when you think about like the traditional
hymns and like the way that the service looks
like. Would it be sort of similar to what I might
think of as like a traditional Anglican service,
you know, like with an organ and the same Book
of Common Prayer and that sort of thing? Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, especially
in Dubai, because everybody in Dubai, they have
come there to work or their children who are
studying there. Sure. So the only time we are
involved in the church is on a Sunday or nearly
it was on a Friday. Sure. We don't have anything
else, right? Okay. Because everybody is busy
with work. Sure. far away. So your involvement
on like other than going to the church and worshipping
there is not much unlike here. You know here
you're involved with other activities connected
to the church which is great. That's something
I realized that I was missing that only after
coming here. I think that's because of the work
culture there. People work very late. In fact
earlier that may be about 10, 15 years ago, they
used to have two shifts. Okay. Meaning two shifts
in the sense people go to work from maybe 7 o
'clock to 12 o 'clock or 1 o 'clock and they
have a break till 4 o 'clock and then start again
at 4 o 'clock and work till 7 o 'clock. Ah, okay.
See, because of the weather conditions. Right,
because it's too hot in the middle of the day.
Yeah, too hot, yeah. And that was the Arab culture.
Sure, yeah. Right? And slowly things changed
over time when the country started developing.
But that work still remains the same. People
work very late, like Pradeep said, you know.
They don't have that kind of time to come to
church also, you know, to come to church and
participate in any other activities. It's not
possible. And right now, the biggest challenge
is not the time, it's the traffic. Aha, yes,
okay, yes. To get from A to B, you know, what
could be done in 10 minutes will take. 40 minutes.
So it's worse than the Toronto traffic? Absolutely.
Absolutely. That's horrible. Okay. Okay. I'm
curious about, you said there's this one Christmas
service where all of the different congregations
sort of come together. So what does that look
like and like sound like? Yeah. It is an open
air service because we have like thousands of
people. It's on a courtyard. Okay. Okay. So everybody,
okay. they have a list of singers they come in
we start the opening prayer and then that's then
it's all music okay okay and every congregation
is a different piece yeah yeah in their own language
yeah so apart from like their own language they
also like wear their own attire like their own
choir costume kind of thing yeah um or like um
Was there food involved? I don't remember. No,
not for that. No food. No. Okay, then maybe I'm
thinking of carols in the desert. But we had
a lot of caroling the whole December. Because
it's like when we're going from a 40 degree weather
in the summer to like a 15 to 20 degree during
the Decembers and Jan. So it's good weather for
us to be outside, enjoy the weather. enjoy each
other's culture as well so it's a very like really
nice exposure for all of us yeah and having said
that i think in the church i think during the
time of pentecost there used to be a sunday now
sunday was it right different uh what should
the groups yeah will come and sing in different
languages in the church right so that was very
that was very interesting Very interesting, you
know, because some people who can sing in Tamil,
they'll come and do it in Tamil. And somebody
would do it in Hindi and somebody would do it
in, you know, Urdu or whatever language. Sure,
sure, sure. And they used to wear that, like
she was saying, the traditional costume and come
in the church. Yeah. It was part of the service.
Sure. So that was very interesting. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, for sure. And of course, going back to
what Pradeep said about the hymns, I think what
I personally miss here, In this church is the
hymns. Because we all grew up, you know, with
those hymns. Right? And I've been for the past
so many years. And not being, not listening to
it in the church, sometimes, you know, come on,
are we missing something? Sure, sure. Yeah. And
with all of the different music in the different
languages, is it different like styles of music
as well? Yes. Yes. Very. Each culture has like
their own beats and stuff like that. So sometimes
they would even like when they come up on stage,
they're also dancing a little bit. So it's a
lot of fun to see how like they enjoy and they
worship God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a way
we had like a very strong Korean, Ethiopian,
Kenyan and Nigerian as well. Egyptian congregation
so they sing their own language like Ethiopians
are not for some reason they only when they come
to church they wear only white okay okay and
Nigerians with their elaborate headdress and
you know like it's like it was it was great yeah
yeah to get to see all those different pieces
together for sure So when you think about different
cultures coming together and worshipping God
and figuring out how we do church, are there
ways that you think our cultures influence how
we think about God or how we think about church?
Ooh, that's a good one. Sorry, go ahead. No,
you're fine. I really don't think so. Because,
you know, culture is something that you're born
into. Yep. Right? And then, you know, worshipping
in that particular culture, sometimes you feel
nice about it. You know, that you're worshipping
in that culture. But at the same time, you learn
to accept the others, the way others worship
also. So, I mean, like I said, I mean, travelling
through Africa, if you go on a Sunday, I've seen
them, even the poor villages, they dress up so
very well in a suit. Maybe that's the colonial
culture they grew up with. And they go to church
so neatly. And then you begin to appreciate.
Sometimes the way people come dressed to the
church and all that kind of thing, it makes a
difference, I feel. And then you begin to respect
them. Because they are respecting that particular
day when they have to go to service, to the church.
Sure. And they are rich or poor, they come so
very well dressed. And traveling through Africa,
I have seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know,
sometimes I really wonder, you know, culture
does have something very major role to play.
Sure. And it's great to worship in your own culture
if you get an opportunity. Mm -hmm. Yeah. One
of the things, you know, you'll see is, you know,
when it comes to Christianity, if you go to different
countries and different cultures, always the
worship, there's a big influence of the local
culture. Sure. The language, the way they dress,
the way they talk. Sure. And also some of the
practices they do. Yeah. Especially how you get
married, how you get baptized. Sure. They're
all different. Yeah. But the thing is, at the
end of the day, it is all towards one. You know,
like they all worship the same God. They all
believe the same in the Trinity. And you're saved
by grace. The belief is the same. But the way
they do it is different. Sure. So it is, you
know, you don't feel intimidated or any different
when you go to a different church. Sure. You
know, kind of. Accept it. You're ready to respect
them. Yeah, for sure. I think a majority of that
respect is also because we've seen so many cultures
come together and we've witnessed how, no, we've
actually come to appreciate those different traditions
because we understand how much they kind of revere
those traditions to be like, oh yes, this is
how we must respect. um, God and also how our
family has worshiped God. Right. And so, um,
but I do, I do think that culture apart from
like how it influences music and the way we worship
God and like serve him, uh, apart from that,
it also like can somewhat influence the way we
see God. Right. Because, um, I guess it's also
like the way we are brought up, like how we're
raised. um we we might see like our earthly father
or like the um the congregation itself and be
like oh maybe this is how god is right right
but it's again once you only once you dive into
the word and then you actually see god's character
show up right then only do you see him how he
shows up in your life and how he wants to have
this love for you and show that love for you
so culture does have that tiny bit of influence
but it's unless you get into the word and know
like okay this is how god really is sure would
you have a different perspective sure yeah and
i think like there's a gift in being part of
a multicultural church or especially being part
of a church like like holy trinity where you
had all these different congregations because
you can see okay This congregation worships God
like this. This congregation worships God like
this. And God is still God in both of those contexts.
Absolutely. Right? You get to see a more fulsome
picture than if you were just in one church in
one place that was sort of isolated. Yeah. Now,
having said that, something happened a couple
of years ago in a place called Abu Dhabi. That's
the capital of the UAE. They built a huge building.
They call it the Abrahamic House. Okay. Abrahamic
family house. So part of the building is a mosque.
Part of the building is a church. Part of the
building is a synagogue. Okay. The idea is that,
see, even the local people, that's the Arabs
who are running the country, they actually give
that kind of respect to the other. I mean, that
is why I think the UAE is one of the most progressive
countries in the Middle East. Because they respect
the other religions and they actually provide
for them. Sure. In different ways. And they are
very, very tolerant. Right. When they can be
tolerant, I think we should also be tolerant
to the other. Sure. the congregations which worship
the same God yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think
interesting there that like yeah we can learn
things from our Muslim brothers and sisters and
from our Jewish brothers and sisters yeah that
God is somewhere in all of this yeah and it's
a lot bigger than just our little sort of piece
of thing it is very you know a big change because
until not even when I left Dubai at that time,
Jews were not allowed inside. Interesting. Okay.
And then they made peace. Yeah. It's interesting
to sort of think about the history. I had a problem
where I think initially when I was working in
Abu Dhabi, one of the companies we were working
for, their geologist wouldn't allow me to go
to the field to work because he thought I was
Jewish. Ah, interesting. Because of my son, Benjamin.
Ah, I see. Yes, okay. Interesting. Huh. But then,
yeah. But yeah, things change over time for sure.
Yeah, I think it's really, like I said, really
interesting to sort of hear the gift that each
of you have in this experience of seeing God
in these different cultures. And then the gift
that brings to our Trinity family here, right?
That you guys can come. and be part of our worship
and remind us, I think, that even though we're
all a little bit different, we're all pointed
in the same direction. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
really special, really important, I think, to
keep our eyes locked on that. For sure. For sure.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much, folks. This has
been a really fun conversation. Yeah. And thank
you for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity
Talks. I hope that wherever you find yourself,
whatever your church family or your faith community
looks like, that you are able to expand those
boundaries a little bit to see what God looks
like in lots of different places around the world.
And we will see you again next week.