WEBVTT 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:05.820 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.699 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and I'm really 00:00:08.699 --> 00:00:10.740 glad that you're joining us because we have a 00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:12.980 really interesting conversation here with these 00:00:12.980 --> 00:00:17.079 three folks who have all come to Trinity at different 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.539 times, but actually all came from Trinity in 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:25.140 Dubai. And so excited to sort of hear more about 00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:27.219 that story and what has brought you folks here 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:31.000 and what that experience has been like. So maybe 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.899 we'll start with some introductions, and you 00:00:32.899 --> 00:00:34.880 can just tell us your name, a little bit about 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:38.140 yourself, and maybe what brought you here to 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:41.179 Canada or to Trinity. So do you want to get us 00:00:41.179 --> 00:00:43.679 started? Hi, yeah, sure. Yeah, my name is Pradeep 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:48.679 Benjamin. So we moved to Canada in 2013. Okay. 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:53.070 Before that, we visited... Canada in 2008 okay 00:00:53.070 --> 00:00:57.729 for a vacation uh that time okay we like this 00:00:57.729 --> 00:01:00.810 place sure and also our kids were coming up to 00:01:00.810 --> 00:01:04.810 the university age so we thought you know it's 00:01:04.810 --> 00:01:08.969 a good place to move okay um So we applied in 00:01:08.969 --> 00:01:11.890 2009, I think, and we got, it was perfect timing. 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:16.310 He moved here in 2013. Okay. And I already had 00:01:16.310 --> 00:01:20.670 a job, so it made it easier. Okay. And were you 00:01:20.670 --> 00:01:24.750 coming from the UAE at that point in 2012? Yes, 00:01:24.790 --> 00:01:28.349 I was. Actually, yeah. Okay. Okay. Very cool. 00:01:28.430 --> 00:01:32.599 Yeah. My name is Naraya. I'm with the DUI program 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:34.780 here in Holy Trinity. I mean, Trinity Church, 00:01:34.819 --> 00:01:38.099 Streetsville. Also came from Holy Trinity, Dubai, 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:43.340 but only came to Canada for like my education. 00:01:43.459 --> 00:01:46.000 I was trying to do a master's in business administration. 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:50.879 Very cool. And then so this was in January 2022. 00:01:52.269 --> 00:01:56.049 And then, so yeah, I came for that. But I joined 00:01:56.049 --> 00:01:58.430 this church because God called me when I was 00:01:58.430 --> 00:02:00.670 in Calgary. He was like, yeah, I need you here 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:04.569 in Toronto. And then he opened up that door through 00:02:04.569 --> 00:02:08.210 Rob and the DIY program. And yeah, so like now 00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:10.949 I'm here wanting to serve. Okay, very cool. Yeah. 00:02:11.689 --> 00:02:16.990 Hi, my name is James. We actually came to Canada 00:02:16.990 --> 00:02:20.050 in 2003. 2003, okay. So you've been here the 00:02:20.050 --> 00:02:22.789 longest. Yeah, but I've been traveling back and 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:25.569 forth because until 2020, I was still working 00:02:25.569 --> 00:02:27.990 in Dubai. Ah, okay. So during the COVID time, 00:02:28.050 --> 00:02:29.509 I thought enough is enough, and I came back. 00:02:29.669 --> 00:02:33.710 Sure. But my son, he stayed back from 2003 to 00:02:33.710 --> 00:02:38.240 study to do his university. Okay. He stayed back 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.680 and my wife joined him. Okay. So they were here 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:41.919 and I was going back and forth. And you were 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:44.780 sort of back and forth. Okay. Okay. And since 00:02:44.780 --> 00:02:47.620 2020, you've just sort of mostly stayed around 00:02:47.620 --> 00:02:51.560 here feeling more settled. Okay. Yeah. So then 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:53.419 I'm wondering, you've all sort of been here different 00:02:53.419 --> 00:02:55.360 amounts of times, different things sort of brought 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.439 you here. What was your sort of first impression 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.740 of coming to Canada and maybe how has that changed 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:06.349 over time? Okay. That's a good one. Actually, 00:03:06.370 --> 00:03:08.389 when I first came to Canada, I was in Calgary. 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:10.409 Okay. And I have a Brazilian side of my family, 00:03:10.469 --> 00:03:13.310 so it was just a Latin experience. Oh, okay. 00:03:13.349 --> 00:03:15.990 Nothing Canadian at all. Okay, interesting. Except 00:03:15.990 --> 00:03:20.169 the weather itself, of course. But in terms of 00:03:20.169 --> 00:03:22.430 like the culture that I did experience when I 00:03:22.430 --> 00:03:26.289 was in Vancouver and Halifax, that was very different 00:03:26.289 --> 00:03:28.189 because like, you know, everybody goes like, 00:03:28.270 --> 00:03:30.789 oh, Canada is like the best. The people are the 00:03:30.789 --> 00:03:33.310 best. They're so nice. And I was like, well, 00:03:33.569 --> 00:03:36.330 there were quite a few mean people in my class. 00:03:36.789 --> 00:03:39.789 Sure. Yeah. So it was very it was very different, 00:03:39.849 --> 00:03:44.330 like to see how people here talk very differently. 00:03:44.389 --> 00:03:47.030 They're a lot more considerate, a lot more nicer, 00:03:47.050 --> 00:03:51.169 for sure. um but it's also like in terms of like 00:03:51.169 --> 00:03:53.849 Canada being like like back home it's like oh 00:03:53.849 --> 00:03:56.650 it's like the dreamland right if you're in Canada 00:03:56.650 --> 00:03:58.729 you've just prospered in life you've reached 00:03:58.729 --> 00:04:05.069 heaven so yeah so it's very like I like how grounded 00:04:05.069 --> 00:04:08.030 it is here compared to what it is back home I 00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:11.169 feel like back home it's very superficial materialistic 00:04:11.169 --> 00:04:15.930 okay and stuff so yeah that that was um how my 00:04:15.930 --> 00:04:18.050 first impression and then my current impression 00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:20.350 seems like now. Okay, yeah. So it was, like, 00:04:20.370 --> 00:04:23.329 maybe this sort of vision and, like, dreamland. 00:04:23.389 --> 00:04:26.230 Yeah. And it's maybe some of that. Yeah. But, 00:04:26.310 --> 00:04:28.970 like, we're rounded people, too. Yeah, yeah. 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:31.629 It's not all dreamy and perfect. Exactly. Which 00:04:31.629 --> 00:04:33.970 I like. I like the realistic, you know, like, 00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:37.490 low -pressure kind of atmosphere that this place 00:04:37.490 --> 00:04:40.550 has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. 00:04:40.769 --> 00:04:45.529 Yeah, once we left India... In 1992, we went 00:04:45.529 --> 00:04:48.910 to Dubai, and we were exposed to the multicultural 00:04:48.910 --> 00:04:53.449 setup. Sure. So moving from there to here, it 00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:55.269 was a bit of a change, of course. It was a lot 00:04:55.269 --> 00:04:58.149 of a change. Whether it was easy to adjust, whether 00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:01.949 people are good, friendly, and we were able to 00:05:01.949 --> 00:05:04.709 get to know the system quite well. Sure. Very 00:05:04.709 --> 00:05:08.050 simplified system, nothing complicated. So it 00:05:08.050 --> 00:05:10.949 was easy to, you know. adjust to this country 00:05:10.949 --> 00:05:15.769 sure yeah yeah yeah so the dubai as you said 00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:17.910 was sort of multicultural absolutely yeah yeah 00:05:17.910 --> 00:05:20.370 and so the mississauga sort of matched that in 00:05:20.370 --> 00:05:23.439 some ways yeah Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What about you, 00:05:23.459 --> 00:05:26.120 Pradeep? For me, you know, I worked in the oil 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:29.720 industry. Okay. So since 1986, I've been kind 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.279 of working outside India in many different countries. 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.019 Sure. So I was exposed to very different cultures, 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.500 you know, diametrically opposite. Yeah. Like 00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:41.720 work, living in Japan to living in Yemen. Okay. 00:05:41.779 --> 00:05:45.839 Yeah. And also like for before. Moving to Canada, 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.240 my company, we had a, we worked with a Canadian 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.800 company called Canadian Nexen. Okay. So for about 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.860 four, four and a half years, I worked with them. 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:56.720 So I was like, I had a lot of Canadian friends. 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.480 Sure. But most of them from Calgary. Okay. So 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:01.459 they were the one, they were also instrumental 00:06:01.459 --> 00:06:03.620 in me coming here because they were pushing me 00:06:03.620 --> 00:06:06.240 to move to Calgary and, you know, start working 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.360 there. But unfortunately or fortunately, the 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:12.040 bottom of the oil industry fell off during that 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.459 time. But I already got the PR. So I said, all 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:17.639 right, instead of Calgary, move over here. Sure. 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:23.649 That's how. For me, it was not a big. There's 00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:26.490 not much adjustment necessary because, like, 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:28.529 you know, I've been exposed to it. Sure. But 00:06:28.529 --> 00:06:31.230 for my kids and the family, yes, there is. It 00:06:31.230 --> 00:06:35.189 was a change. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So as you think 00:06:35.189 --> 00:06:37.870 about, like, navigating these different cultures, 00:06:37.910 --> 00:06:41.209 like, what is that experience like as, you know, 00:06:41.209 --> 00:06:44.170 whether it's in Dubai and navigating all these 00:06:44.170 --> 00:06:45.970 different cultures or sort of coming here and 00:06:45.970 --> 00:06:48.329 trying to figure out Canadian culture? Like, 00:06:48.329 --> 00:06:50.790 is that what are some of the challenges in that? 00:06:51.129 --> 00:06:54.430 In Dubai, it is very different from anywhere 00:06:54.430 --> 00:06:58.910 else in the world because you don't get to interact 00:06:58.910 --> 00:07:01.629 or meet with the locals because, you know, you 00:07:01.629 --> 00:07:03.910 have people coming from all over the world to 00:07:03.910 --> 00:07:07.269 work there, right? So you are only exposed to 00:07:07.269 --> 00:07:09.550 them. You are very rarely exposed to somebody. 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.279 Okay, interesting. So everybody sort of comes 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:15.600 from somewhere else. And besides the church also, 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:19.459 like, okay, it was an Anglican church, but we 00:07:19.459 --> 00:07:23.819 had more than 120, 130 congregations there. We 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.259 had a main church building. We had about 20 different 00:07:26.259 --> 00:07:30.500 halls. So on a weekend, like from morning five 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:32.980 o 'clock, we have different congregations worshiping 00:07:32.980 --> 00:07:37.100 there. Okay. Wow. That's a lot of congregations. 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:41.379 Yeah. one was like a different i don't know like 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:44.420 a different denomination different country sect 00:07:44.420 --> 00:07:47.459 whatever it is okay okay so it was always like 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:51.819 new okay um there's never like how uncle says 00:07:51.819 --> 00:07:55.480 like it's nothing like that is or the arabic 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:57.939 culture is right there no it's very mixed okay 00:07:57.939 --> 00:08:00.620 the languages are very mixed yeah yeah yeah we 00:08:00.620 --> 00:08:04.339 had um you know egyptian orthodox to ethiopian 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:08.230 to They had one congregation from Brazil, too. 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:11.410 So it was very diverse. And the only time we 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:13.550 got together was during Christmas time, we had 00:08:13.550 --> 00:08:16.970 a unified carols in the compound. So all the 00:08:16.970 --> 00:08:18.670 churches are like, it's a three, three and a 00:08:18.670 --> 00:08:20.910 half hour program. Each church would come and 00:08:20.910 --> 00:08:25.769 sing a carol. Okay, very cool. Well, the interesting 00:08:25.769 --> 00:08:29.449 thing is the country of United Arab Emirates, 00:08:29.610 --> 00:08:34.370 it was formed in the year 1971. Okay. But the 00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:37.529 church, The Holy Trinity Church started one year 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:40.990 before that. Ah, okay. Because the land for that 00:08:40.990 --> 00:08:45.070 particular church was given by the ruler, Sheikh 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:47.750 Rashid, we call him Sheikh Rashid. Okay. He gave 00:08:47.750 --> 00:08:50.509 the land and the church was built in 1970. Okay. 00:08:50.690 --> 00:08:53.289 But the country was formed in 1971. Uh -huh. 00:08:53.490 --> 00:08:57.049 And a very interesting concept, the church itself 00:08:57.049 --> 00:08:59.690 was actually, they gave it as a non -denominational. 00:08:59.929 --> 00:09:03.710 Okay, sure. But it is kind of managed by the 00:09:03.710 --> 00:09:06.389 Anglican Church. Okay. So like Pradeep said, 00:09:06.610 --> 00:09:11.149 we have about 120 different groups of people 00:09:11.149 --> 00:09:14.570 worshipping in the same compound. Sure. And last 00:09:14.570 --> 00:09:16.110 time when I went there in the month of October, 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:18.750 I was talking to somebody, and they said the 00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:22.269 footfall each weekend is about 10 ,000 to 11 00:09:22.269 --> 00:09:25.669 ,000 people. Wow. Coming into the compound. Yeah. 00:09:26.570 --> 00:09:28.990 So it's a very amazing experience, you know, 00:09:29.009 --> 00:09:33.879 the church -wise. And earlier, we used to worship 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.740 on Fridays. Yes. And not on Sundays. Okay. Yeah, 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.279 our weekend was Friday, Saturday, not Saturday, 00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:43.779 Sunday. Ah, because that's how the schedule worked 00:09:43.779 --> 00:09:47.259 in Dubai? Yeah. Because that's the Islamic culture, 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:49.679 right? And Friday is a holiday for them. They 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.399 go to the mosque and namaz and things like that. 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:54.840 Right. So Friday was a holiday. Only about five 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.200 years ago, they switched to Saturday, Sunday. 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.779 Ah, okay. Interesting. Yeah. So you usually had 00:10:01.779 --> 00:10:04.299 church on Friday then? Yeah, we had it on Friday. 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:07.320 But on Sunday evenings, they used to have a worship 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.220 in the Trinity Church. So sort of a little bit 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:14.340 of both. Yeah, a little bit of both. And when 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:17.139 you folks were all part of the Trinity Church 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:19.600 in Dubai, were you in the same congregation or 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.820 were you in different congregations? I was in 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:25.279 different congregations. Okay. I went to the 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:28.090 Tamil Church. Okay. They also worship the same 00:10:28.090 --> 00:10:30.370 compound. Yeah. But I used to go to the English 00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:33.750 service also. Okay. And even now when I go back, 00:10:33.809 --> 00:10:35.570 I mean, I keep visiting Dubai. I go to the English 00:10:35.570 --> 00:10:37.570 church. I attend the English church because I 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:39.850 have a lot of people there I know. Yeah. And 00:10:39.850 --> 00:10:43.149 I know the pastor also. But I do also know the 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:45.529 Tamil church congregation and once in a while 00:10:45.529 --> 00:10:48.429 go there. Okay. But I was a member of the Tamil 00:10:48.429 --> 00:10:51.750 church. Yeah. But worshiping both here and there. 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:56.059 Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, me and Pradeep 00:10:56.059 --> 00:10:58.899 uncle, we've been in the same Anglican, the main 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:02.039 congregation. In the English service? In the 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:07.100 English service, yeah. Okay. And so what was 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:10.519 that experience like? Like being part of, you 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:12.860 know, your own little congregation, but within 00:11:12.860 --> 00:11:16.419 120 congregations. Like, yeah, just describe, 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:19.019 like, how does that build a sense of church for 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:21.240 you? Or how is that sort of similar or different 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:23.940 to what we're doing here? I could share like 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:26.460 a small incident that kind of like threw me off. 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.779 But basically, there was a time when the church 00:11:29.779 --> 00:11:32.500 was being renovated, right? They're trying to 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:34.679 make more space and whatever, like in the main 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.440 hall itself. But they were also like renovating 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.299 a few rooms around the compound as well. And 00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:42.879 I remember when they were first renovating it, 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:44.519 they were like, hey, we're going to be shifting 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.340 the service into another place of the same compound. 00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:49.440 And I was like, okay, great. And I got lost. 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:52.299 I didn't know where I was going. And I ended 00:11:52.299 --> 00:11:55.600 up in the Ethiopian Orthodox. church okay and 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:57.440 it was very different I walked in and I was like 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.899 am I in a different world like what is this and 00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:02.960 I had no idea because I knew that there were 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:05.000 other groups and congregations I was very young 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.379 sure but I didn't know that there were like so 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.019 many different traditions and the cultures have 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:12.559 their own thing going on right like very different 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.679 ways of doing church yeah yeah and so that was 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:17.919 that threw me off and I was like you know what 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:22.320 I just want to go home now a little disorienting 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:27.159 yeah yeah but um the like to compare like what 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:30.799 holy trinity was to this i would say is a lot 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.000 more traditional because we we have like over 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.840 there it's like choir we sing hymns sure and 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.720 then here we know that there are hymns being 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.220 played here but it's very like contemporary style 00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:43.820 almost country as well yeah and so um this is 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:46.019 something that i discussed with uh leah as well 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:49.240 your daughter um but we were talking about how 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:51.419 that threw us off sure as well because we're 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.039 like we're we're used to the d thousand nine 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.240 and whatever to like go into like a contemporary 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.500 we're like this is not how it is we don't want 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:05.799 this sure so yeah there's like a few things that 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.639 for us were like Or like for me, I'm like, yeah, 00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:10.879 you know what? I like the difference that's there. 00:13:10.940 --> 00:13:15.480 That's very evident. But also I like how the 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.679 tradition was back home because I'm just used 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.200 to it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all sometimes 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:22.440 want to lean back into what feels like familiar 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.179 and comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty 00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:28.379 amazing to see when you go to the church, you 00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:31.919 know, you see a group of people worshipping Tamil 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.440 and another place people were worshipping in 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:37.879 Malayalam and somebody worshipping Urdu and, 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:40.919 you know, multiple languages. And it's pretty 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.500 awesome. It's pretty awesome, you know, the way 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:45.340 people gather and worship, you know. I mean, 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.480 it gives you kind of goosebumps at times. Right, 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.639 that's one thing. The other thing is, I mean, 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.590 she was talking about the... liturgy that we 00:13:54.590 --> 00:13:58.009 followed there, particularly Anglican, it's slowly 00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:01.210 changing. Over the past three months, once a 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:03.389 week, once a month, they have a contemporary 00:14:03.389 --> 00:14:07.269 worship in the Anglican church. They have started 00:14:07.269 --> 00:14:09.690 that because they realized that, okay, maybe 00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:12.909 some youngsters like the contemporary worship, 00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:16.049 so let's do that. I think the last Sunday of 00:14:16.049 --> 00:14:18.789 every month they are doing it. They have two 00:14:18.789 --> 00:14:21.200 services. Normally they used to have only one. 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:24.419 Okay. Now this contemporary worship starts a 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:27.000 little earlier. Sure. And they finish that and 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.080 then they go to the regular worship. Okay. Yeah. 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.039 For me, the big change or the difference between 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.440 Dubai, as well as in the other churches in Asia 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.179 and here, is, you know, there it's more formal. 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:43.679 Like she said in her answer, it's more formal. 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:45.799 And one thing that threw me off is the music 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.679 because I grew up with the typical traditional 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:51.779 hymns. Okay, sure. I love them, but unfortunately 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:55.320 you don't get to see that here. And another one 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:57.299 is, I think they have changed here, but they 00:14:57.299 --> 00:15:01.389 follow the King James Version Bible. Okay. So 00:15:01.389 --> 00:15:05.149 that's why all this dao di, all this. Sure, sure, 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:08.490 sure, sure. And especially when you do the Lord's 00:15:08.490 --> 00:15:11.509 Prayer, because we, you know, they recite it 00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:14.710 the old way. So sometimes it kind of throws us 00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:17.769 off. Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And 00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:20.070 so when you think about like the traditional 00:15:20.070 --> 00:15:22.769 hymns and like the way that the service looks 00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:26.159 like. Would it be sort of similar to what I might 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.600 think of as like a traditional Anglican service, 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:30.960 you know, like with an organ and the same Book 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.480 of Common Prayer and that sort of thing? Okay. 00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:38.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, especially 00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:41.440 in Dubai, because everybody in Dubai, they have 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.659 come there to work or their children who are 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:46.120 studying there. Sure. So the only time we are 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.360 involved in the church is on a Sunday or nearly 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:50.360 it was on a Friday. Sure. We don't have anything 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.120 else, right? Okay. Because everybody is busy 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.090 with work. Sure. far away. So your involvement 00:15:56.090 --> 00:16:00.149 on like other than going to the church and worshipping 00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:02.610 there is not much unlike here. You know here 00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:04.690 you're involved with other activities connected 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:08.350 to the church which is great. That's something 00:16:08.350 --> 00:16:13.110 I realized that I was missing that only after 00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:17.970 coming here. I think that's because of the work 00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:21.289 culture there. People work very late. In fact 00:16:21.289 --> 00:16:25.490 earlier that may be about 10, 15 years ago, they 00:16:25.490 --> 00:16:28.490 used to have two shifts. Okay. Meaning two shifts 00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:30.649 in the sense people go to work from maybe 7 o 00:16:30.649 --> 00:16:33.909 'clock to 12 o 'clock or 1 o 'clock and they 00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:36.909 have a break till 4 o 'clock and then start again 00:16:36.909 --> 00:16:39.549 at 4 o 'clock and work till 7 o 'clock. Ah, okay. 00:16:39.789 --> 00:16:41.870 See, because of the weather conditions. Right, 00:16:41.929 --> 00:16:43.350 because it's too hot in the middle of the day. 00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:45.370 Yeah, too hot, yeah. And that was the Arab culture. 00:16:45.549 --> 00:16:48.389 Sure, yeah. Right? And slowly things changed 00:16:48.389 --> 00:16:50.190 over time when the country started developing. 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:53.179 But that work still remains the same. People 00:16:53.179 --> 00:16:55.299 work very late, like Pradeep said, you know. 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:58.000 They don't have that kind of time to come to 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.460 church also, you know, to come to church and 00:17:00.460 --> 00:17:02.899 participate in any other activities. It's not 00:17:02.899 --> 00:17:06.519 possible. And right now, the biggest challenge 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.660 is not the time, it's the traffic. Aha, yes, 00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:13.680 okay, yes. To get from A to B, you know, what 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.309 could be done in 10 minutes will take. 40 minutes. 00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:19.329 So it's worse than the Toronto traffic? Absolutely. 00:17:19.490 --> 00:17:24.950 Absolutely. That's horrible. Okay. Okay. I'm 00:17:24.950 --> 00:17:26.990 curious about, you said there's this one Christmas 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:29.910 service where all of the different congregations 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:32.250 sort of come together. So what does that look 00:17:32.250 --> 00:17:36.509 like and like sound like? Yeah. It is an open 00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:39.269 air service because we have like thousands of 00:17:39.269 --> 00:17:43.630 people. It's on a courtyard. Okay. Okay. So everybody, 00:17:43.869 --> 00:17:48.349 okay. they have a list of singers they come in 00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:51.210 we start the opening prayer and then that's then 00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:54.049 it's all music okay okay and every congregation 00:17:54.049 --> 00:17:56.890 is a different piece yeah yeah in their own language 00:17:56.890 --> 00:18:00.630 yeah so apart from like their own language they 00:18:00.630 --> 00:18:02.690 also like wear their own attire like their own 00:18:02.690 --> 00:18:06.670 choir costume kind of thing yeah um or like um 00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.920 Was there food involved? I don't remember. No, 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:14.440 not for that. No food. No. Okay, then maybe I'm 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:16.259 thinking of carols in the desert. But we had 00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.660 a lot of caroling the whole December. Because 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:22.359 it's like when we're going from a 40 degree weather 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.519 in the summer to like a 15 to 20 degree during 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.779 the Decembers and Jan. So it's good weather for 00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:34.799 us to be outside, enjoy the weather. enjoy each 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.799 other's culture as well so it's a very like really 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.900 nice exposure for all of us yeah and having said 00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:44.319 that i think in the church i think during the 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.680 time of pentecost there used to be a sunday now 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.619 sunday was it right different uh what should 00:18:51.619 --> 00:18:54.240 the groups yeah will come and sing in different 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.880 languages in the church right so that was very 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.869 that was very interesting Very interesting, you 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:04.670 know, because some people who can sing in Tamil, 00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:06.869 they'll come and do it in Tamil. And somebody 00:19:06.869 --> 00:19:08.910 would do it in Hindi and somebody would do it 00:19:08.910 --> 00:19:11.789 in, you know, Urdu or whatever language. Sure, 00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:13.690 sure, sure. And they used to wear that, like 00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:15.670 she was saying, the traditional costume and come 00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:18.130 in the church. Yeah. It was part of the service. 00:19:18.369 --> 00:19:20.809 Sure. So that was very interesting. Yeah, yeah, 00:19:20.829 --> 00:19:23.990 yeah, for sure. And of course, going back to 00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:27.089 what Pradeep said about the hymns, I think what 00:19:27.089 --> 00:19:30.690 I personally miss here, In this church is the 00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:34.670 hymns. Because we all grew up, you know, with 00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:37.490 those hymns. Right? And I've been for the past 00:19:37.490 --> 00:19:41.430 so many years. And not being, not listening to 00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:43.869 it in the church, sometimes, you know, come on, 00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:47.369 are we missing something? Sure, sure. Yeah. And 00:19:47.369 --> 00:19:49.089 with all of the different music in the different 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:51.890 languages, is it different like styles of music 00:19:51.890 --> 00:19:54.849 as well? Yes. Yes. Very. Each culture has like 00:19:54.849 --> 00:19:57.250 their own beats and stuff like that. So sometimes 00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:59.349 they would even like when they come up on stage, 00:19:59.450 --> 00:20:01.450 they're also dancing a little bit. So it's a 00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:04.609 lot of fun to see how like they enjoy and they 00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:08.809 worship God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a way 00:20:08.809 --> 00:20:13.630 we had like a very strong Korean, Ethiopian, 00:20:13.829 --> 00:20:17.500 Kenyan and Nigerian as well. Egyptian congregation 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:21.539 so they sing their own language like Ethiopians 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:23.519 are not for some reason they only when they come 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:26.440 to church they wear only white okay okay and 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.720 Nigerians with their elaborate headdress and 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.220 you know like it's like it was it was great yeah 00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:33.500 yeah to get to see all those different pieces 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.180 together for sure So when you think about different 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:40.259 cultures coming together and worshipping God 00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:42.819 and figuring out how we do church, are there 00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:47.880 ways that you think our cultures influence how 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.079 we think about God or how we think about church? 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.839 Ooh, that's a good one. Sorry, go ahead. No, 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:01.440 you're fine. I really don't think so. Because, 00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:03.759 you know, culture is something that you're born 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.450 into. Yep. Right? And then, you know, worshipping 00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:09.069 in that particular culture, sometimes you feel 00:21:09.069 --> 00:21:12.450 nice about it. You know, that you're worshipping 00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:14.910 in that culture. But at the same time, you learn 00:21:14.910 --> 00:21:19.390 to accept the others, the way others worship 00:21:19.390 --> 00:21:23.710 also. So, I mean, like I said, I mean, travelling 00:21:23.710 --> 00:21:26.730 through Africa, if you go on a Sunday, I've seen 00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:30.529 them, even the poor villages, they dress up so 00:21:30.529 --> 00:21:35.519 very well in a suit. Maybe that's the colonial 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.039 culture they grew up with. And they go to church 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.599 so neatly. And then you begin to appreciate. 00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:47.019 Sometimes the way people come dressed to the 00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:48.759 church and all that kind of thing, it makes a 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.759 difference, I feel. And then you begin to respect 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.240 them. Because they are respecting that particular 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.619 day when they have to go to service, to the church. 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:01.359 Sure. And they are rich or poor, they come so 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.039 very well dressed. And traveling through Africa, 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:06.019 I have seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:07.859 sometimes I really wonder, you know, culture 00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.819 does have something very major role to play. 00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:13.740 Sure. And it's great to worship in your own culture 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:17.240 if you get an opportunity. Mm -hmm. Yeah. One 00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.920 of the things, you know, you'll see is, you know, 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.640 when it comes to Christianity, if you go to different 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.359 countries and different cultures, always the 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:28.519 worship, there's a big influence of the local 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.339 culture. Sure. The language, the way they dress, 00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:34.400 the way they talk. Sure. And also some of the 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:38.319 practices they do. Yeah. Especially how you get 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.240 married, how you get baptized. Sure. They're 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.539 all different. Yeah. But the thing is, at the 00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:47.440 end of the day, it is all towards one. You know, 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.160 like they all worship the same God. They all 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:54.900 believe the same in the Trinity. And you're saved 00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:58.299 by grace. The belief is the same. But the way 00:22:58.299 --> 00:23:01.240 they do it is different. Sure. So it is, you 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:06.279 know, you don't feel intimidated or any different 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.279 when you go to a different church. Sure. You 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.299 know, kind of. Accept it. You're ready to respect 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:15.819 them. Yeah, for sure. I think a majority of that 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:19.839 respect is also because we've seen so many cultures 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:24.559 come together and we've witnessed how, no, we've 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.539 actually come to appreciate those different traditions 00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:31.279 because we understand how much they kind of revere 00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:33.380 those traditions to be like, oh yes, this is 00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.240 how we must respect. um, God and also how our 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.640 family has worshiped God. Right. And so, um, 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.779 but I do, I do think that culture apart from 00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:49.099 like how it influences music and the way we worship 00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:52.500 God and like serve him, uh, apart from that, 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.839 it also like can somewhat influence the way we 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:00.960 see God. Right. Because, um, I guess it's also 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.160 like the way we are brought up, like how we're 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.920 raised. um we we might see like our earthly father 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.019 or like the um the congregation itself and be 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.680 like oh maybe this is how god is right right 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.759 but it's again once you only once you dive into 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.279 the word and then you actually see god's character 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.839 show up right then only do you see him how he 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:24.900 shows up in your life and how he wants to have 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.799 this love for you and show that love for you 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:32.130 so culture does have that tiny bit of influence 00:24:32.130 --> 00:24:34.650 but it's unless you get into the word and know 00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:37.410 like okay this is how god really is sure would 00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:40.210 you have a different perspective sure yeah and 00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:43.910 i think like there's a gift in being part of 00:24:43.910 --> 00:24:45.990 a multicultural church or especially being part 00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:48.509 of a church like like holy trinity where you 00:24:48.509 --> 00:24:50.170 had all these different congregations because 00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:54.009 you can see okay This congregation worships God 00:24:54.009 --> 00:24:56.009 like this. This congregation worships God like 00:24:56.009 --> 00:24:58.970 this. And God is still God in both of those contexts. 00:24:59.069 --> 00:25:01.890 Absolutely. Right? You get to see a more fulsome 00:25:01.890 --> 00:25:04.089 picture than if you were just in one church in 00:25:04.089 --> 00:25:07.170 one place that was sort of isolated. Yeah. Now, 00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:10.690 having said that, something happened a couple 00:25:10.690 --> 00:25:13.869 of years ago in a place called Abu Dhabi. That's 00:25:13.869 --> 00:25:19.309 the capital of the UAE. They built a huge building. 00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:23.259 They call it the Abrahamic House. Okay. Abrahamic 00:25:23.259 --> 00:25:28.700 family house. So part of the building is a mosque. 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:32.140 Part of the building is a church. Part of the 00:25:32.140 --> 00:25:36.220 building is a synagogue. Okay. The idea is that, 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:39.460 see, even the local people, that's the Arabs 00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:42.759 who are running the country, they actually give 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:48.269 that kind of respect to the other. I mean, that 00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:51.710 is why I think the UAE is one of the most progressive 00:25:51.710 --> 00:25:54.910 countries in the Middle East. Because they respect 00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:58.250 the other religions and they actually provide 00:25:58.250 --> 00:26:02.009 for them. Sure. In different ways. And they are 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:04.670 very, very tolerant. Right. When they can be 00:26:04.670 --> 00:26:06.609 tolerant, I think we should also be tolerant 00:26:06.609 --> 00:26:12.440 to the other. Sure. the congregations which worship 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.880 the same God yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.680 interesting there that like yeah we can learn 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.519 things from our Muslim brothers and sisters and 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.619 from our Jewish brothers and sisters yeah that 00:26:23.619 --> 00:26:27.579 God is somewhere in all of this yeah and it's 00:26:27.579 --> 00:26:29.940 a lot bigger than just our little sort of piece 00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:33.299 of thing it is very you know a big change because 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:37.349 until not even when I left Dubai at that time, 00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:40.289 Jews were not allowed inside. Interesting. Okay. 00:26:41.029 --> 00:26:46.369 And then they made peace. Yeah. It's interesting 00:26:46.369 --> 00:26:49.450 to sort of think about the history. I had a problem 00:26:49.450 --> 00:26:51.369 where I think initially when I was working in 00:26:51.369 --> 00:26:55.250 Abu Dhabi, one of the companies we were working 00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:58.690 for, their geologist wouldn't allow me to go 00:26:58.690 --> 00:27:01.109 to the field to work because he thought I was 00:27:01.109 --> 00:27:04.690 Jewish. Ah, interesting. Because of my son, Benjamin. 00:27:06.089 --> 00:27:10.430 Ah, I see. Yes, okay. Interesting. Huh. But then, 00:27:10.490 --> 00:27:13.430 yeah. But yeah, things change over time for sure. 00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:16.789 Yeah, I think it's really, like I said, really 00:27:16.789 --> 00:27:20.269 interesting to sort of hear the gift that each 00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:23.410 of you have in this experience of seeing God 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:25.289 in these different cultures. And then the gift 00:27:25.289 --> 00:27:29.170 that brings to our Trinity family here, right? 00:27:29.230 --> 00:27:32.519 That you guys can come. and be part of our worship 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.680 and remind us, I think, that even though we're 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.140 all a little bit different, we're all pointed 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:41.400 in the same direction. Yeah. Yeah. And that's 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.940 really special, really important, I think, to 00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:46.900 keep our eyes locked on that. For sure. For sure. 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.000 Yeah. Well, thank you so much, folks. This has 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.099 been a really fun conversation. Yeah. And thank 00:27:53.099 --> 00:27:56.359 you for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.339 Talks. I hope that wherever you find yourself, 00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.160 whatever your church family or your faith community 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.980 looks like, that you are able to expand those 00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:08.440 boundaries a little bit to see what God looks 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.339 like in lots of different places around the world. 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:13.420 And we will see you again next week.