WEBVTT 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.080 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.019 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Britton. 00:00:09.060 --> 00:00:13.740 And I am Bill. And we are here to continue chatting 00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:16.940 about Advent, this season that prepares us to 00:00:16.940 --> 00:00:20.800 celebrate Christmas. And today we are lighting 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:24.859 two candles, one, two, on our table here. So 00:00:24.859 --> 00:00:26.359 the first candle we talked about last week is 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:28.699 the candle of hope. The second candle is the 00:00:28.699 --> 00:00:32.909 candle of peace. Peace is nice. I think we would 00:00:32.909 --> 00:00:37.750 all love some peace. Yeah, but just sort of as 00:00:37.750 --> 00:00:39.750 a starter, when you hear the word peace, what 00:00:39.750 --> 00:00:43.530 comes to mind for you? Stillness. Stillness. 00:00:43.590 --> 00:00:48.149 Okay. Yes. Very chill. Yeah. Calmness. Yeah. 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:53.670 Quiet. Yeah. Tranquility. Yes. Things that, like 00:00:53.670 --> 00:00:55.429 I said, I think we could all use a little more 00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:59.670 of that. Peace and quiet. Yes. Yes. Mixed together. 00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:01.009 Often come together. Beautiful mix. Peace and 00:01:01.009 --> 00:01:06.790 quiet. Yes. So dads are hard to buy Christmas 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.250 presents for. And my dad, every year when I'm 00:01:10.250 --> 00:01:11.609 like, hey dad, what do you want for Christmas? 00:01:11.689 --> 00:01:14.849 He says, I would like peace on earth. Okay. And 00:01:14.849 --> 00:01:18.010 this is a great idea. I unfortunately cannot 00:01:18.010 --> 00:01:22.510 order it from Amazon. It's not offered? No, it 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:26.879 is not. But yeah. It's something I think we're 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.040 all hoping for and something that sounds really 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:35.260 nice, but is a little elusive maybe. I don't 00:01:35.260 --> 00:01:40.739 know. Yeah. Yeah. So peace is this like stillness 00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:43.780 and calmness is when we think about peace in 00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:46.060 a Christian context, we think about, okay, God 00:01:46.060 --> 00:01:48.480 gives us peace. Is that what we're talking about? 00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:51.140 Is it this sense of stillness and calmness? Is 00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:54.459 it something different than that? I think most 00:01:54.459 --> 00:01:57.480 of the time, When we think of peace, we don't 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:00.000 actually think of the definition of peace. We 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.319 think of what peace isn't or what the opposite 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:08.000 of peace is. I think we're more familiar or comfortable. 00:02:08.949 --> 00:02:12.810 um, with, uh, with war understanding like war. 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:15.889 Um, and, uh, and then when we say, you know, 00:02:15.889 --> 00:02:18.330 peace, we talk about pieces, pieces, the absence 00:02:18.330 --> 00:02:20.530 of war is, I mean, we don't like war. We would, 00:02:20.569 --> 00:02:23.509 and when war ends, we have peace. Right. But 00:02:23.509 --> 00:02:25.949 I, but, uh, I think, but beyond that, I don't 00:02:25.949 --> 00:02:28.789 think that there's a, I mean, it's a goal to 00:02:28.789 --> 00:02:31.669 have peace and to be peaceful, but I, but I think 00:02:31.669 --> 00:02:34.009 we're as a culture, as a people, I think we're 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:36.250 kind of stuck in the chaotic. I think maybe we, 00:02:36.270 --> 00:02:40.759 we like, um, the, uh, It may not like, you know, 00:02:40.780 --> 00:02:44.860 war, but just the chaos of of that and and the 00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:47.439 and maybe not as familiar or as comfortable with 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:49.099 peace, even though it's something that we say 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:52.039 we want. Sure. Yeah. We often, I think, define 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.860 peace as like what it's not to say like, OK, 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:58.699 we don't want war. We don't want yelling. We 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:01.219 don't want noise and chaos. But what is peace? 00:03:01.340 --> 00:03:03.840 But what is peace? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 00:03:03.939 --> 00:03:05.800 The definition. You're right. The definition 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:11.080 was or is. uh, the, what was it? Oh, I had it. 00:03:11.139 --> 00:03:14.379 Yeah. A stater period in which there is no war 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:18.400 or war has ended. And like the Christian context 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:20.439 that like, I think I struggle with that. Like 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:22.979 I, especially today and like seeing how like. 00:03:23.710 --> 00:03:25.610 everyone's trying to close off wars and stop 00:03:25.610 --> 00:03:27.370 them, which I think is a good thing. For sure. 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:30.370 But as soon as a war ends, doesn't mean that 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:33.750 there's peace. Right. And I don't, I don't think 00:03:33.750 --> 00:03:36.050 that's like, it is the stopping of something, 00:03:36.169 --> 00:03:38.229 the stopping of some form of injustice or the 00:03:38.229 --> 00:03:41.520 stopping of violence. doesn't automatically create, 00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:43.879 it can create the conditions for peace to be 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.060 shared. On the road to peace. Yes. It's a pathway. 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:50.219 It's definitely needed, but the stopping of something, 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:52.099 the stopping of a negative doesn't automatically 00:03:52.099 --> 00:03:56.780 create a positive. And I think the Christian 00:03:56.780 --> 00:03:59.159 sense is there is something more that has to 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:02.639 happen that God calls us into and calls us to 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.699 experience in order for that peace to happen. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:07.979 So I would tell Oxford Dictionary, maybe you 00:04:07.979 --> 00:04:12.159 need to add a couple more. more sentences. With 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:14.080 a more positive definition of peace as opposed 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:18.680 to what it's not. Yeah. I also think like while 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:20.220 you guys were talking about that, I realized 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:23.379 like a lot of like the marketing tactics that 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:25.579 we see like on advertisements and stuff is like 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:28.000 they're always trying to market peace through 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.420 the chaos. Like, oh, if you see, I don't know, 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:32.819 an advertisement for a coffee, right? Then they're 00:04:32.819 --> 00:04:34.920 like, oh, early morning coffee, see the sunrise. 00:04:36.580 --> 00:04:39.980 It's a lovely, gentle experience. But it's always 00:04:39.980 --> 00:04:43.500 a lure. It's never achievable. I mean, the idea, 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:47.439 the commercialization of peace is always something 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:54.120 that is almost attainable. If you have that coffee, 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:57.180 then yes, then maybe you can get peace. If you 00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.279 have this, you get this. If you buy this, then 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:05.120 it's always something lacking externally. That 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:09.279 will, in a consumerism culture, that will be, 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:11.519 that's the answer, right? If you only get this, 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.839 then you can maybe achieve peace. Exactly. I 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.639 would even say it's a distraction. And we're 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.519 so hungry for peace. We're so hungry for... almost 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.120 like escapism from what we see in this world, 00:05:24.220 --> 00:05:28.019 that some of that marketing is just pushing something 00:05:28.019 --> 00:05:32.560 that can like subside or get us to ignore the 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.949 chaos that we're experiencing today. I think 00:05:35.949 --> 00:05:38.250 there's many things that we do, especially in 00:05:38.250 --> 00:05:40.589 the consumerism, that is like trying to fill 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:42.829 a void, trying to create conditions for peace. 00:05:43.009 --> 00:05:45.769 But really what it's doing is just ignoring the 00:05:45.769 --> 00:05:47.889 real problems that is preventing peace from being 00:05:47.889 --> 00:05:51.129 possible. And I think consumerism does a lot 00:05:51.129 --> 00:05:53.920 of that. Like people go to the mall. to buy things, 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.740 not necessarily because they need anything, but 00:05:56.740 --> 00:05:59.100 because they're looking to, like, I think there's 00:05:59.100 --> 00:06:01.079 a study that shows like you buy like two, three 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:02.939 things and like you start to, something happens 00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:05.540 in your body. You start to feel good. Yeah. And 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:07.680 I can say, that's true. When I buy a pair of 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.220 Nikes, I feel better about myself. Cause you're 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:13.980 a person wearing Nikes now. That's pretty cool. 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:19.019 Is it really like after I see that bill that 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:21.060 I'm back to like where I was before? I'm like, 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.439 oh, should I really have done this? Right. And 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:24.899 all the things that I was trying to feel like 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:27.240 I haven't actually done those things. So, yeah, 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.160 I think it's more I think we create we assume 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.980 or we like to act like things that are peaceful 00:06:33.980 --> 00:06:36.959 or is what we assume is peaceful. It's actually 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:40.180 I think it's just us avoiding the deeper issues 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:43.420 that we have within our world. Yeah. Like coffee 00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:46.889 masks. tiredness right like yeah you take caffeine 00:06:46.889 --> 00:06:49.370 to kind of boost your energy yes i did that this 00:06:49.370 --> 00:06:55.600 morning I'm still tired. Just not for now. Yeah, 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.459 for sure. I think we often think that peace is 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:00.899 something that we can achieve for ourselves, 00:07:01.139 --> 00:07:04.420 but the Bible tells us it's a gift. Right. And 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:06.879 I think part of the reason that we're even in 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.120 our conversation here and as a larger people 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.779 where we have a problem defining peace is because 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:18.810 I think it's indefinable in a certain way. It 00:07:18.810 --> 00:07:23.050 is hard to describe. It's unknowable. The Bible 00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:27.970 says that you'll be given a peace that is beyond 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:32.810 understanding. We're not meant to get it. It's 00:07:32.810 --> 00:07:38.069 a gift from God. It's the peace of Christ. And 00:07:38.069 --> 00:07:43.860 I think as a gift. It's something that we have 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:47.800 for ourselves. It becomes a state of our being. 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:54.300 And although we can't get it ourselves, I think 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:58.180 it's not only a gift, but it's also a discipline. 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:02.600 So I think once we have peace given to us by 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:08.360 Christ, then we can work. on, uh, growing it 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.279 and building it up within ourselves. It's like 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.899 a, like a muscle, right? The same way our muscles, 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:15.680 we didn't get, we didn't get our muscles. Our 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:19.800 muscles are gifts. And, uh, but we can, we can 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.079 through discipline and through hard work, working 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.000 out, we can grow our muscles, strengthen our 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.000 muscles. And so I think we, in the same way, 00:08:26.019 --> 00:08:30.439 we can also, uh, strengthen our, uh, sense of, 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:33.950 uh, peace, not only within ourselves, but but 00:08:33.950 --> 00:08:36.909 radiating that peace in the, in the larger community. 00:08:37.029 --> 00:08:39.350 So I think, you know, while it is a gift from 00:08:39.350 --> 00:08:43.009 God, I think, I think peace can also be a flex. 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:49.490 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like the kids say. Yeah. And 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:54.190 the, and so that, and, and be Christ. to others. 00:08:54.289 --> 00:08:59.149 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. There's a couple 00:08:59.149 --> 00:09:00.610 of things that come to mind for me when I think 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:02.330 about peace and trying to figure out what it 00:09:02.330 --> 00:09:06.070 is. And one is the Hebrew word Shalom, which 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.870 gets translated as peace. But one of the reasons 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:10.669 that I love that word is because it just has 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:12.830 so many other meanings sort of layered in it. 00:09:12.889 --> 00:09:15.389 So it's like peace, but it's also a sense of 00:09:15.389 --> 00:09:18.539 wholeness, a sense of being complete. and justice 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.580 and like things are set right. Yes. Right. And 00:09:22.580 --> 00:09:24.960 that I think gives us a positive vision of, okay, 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:28.019 what we're working for is not just no conflict. 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:31.539 What we're working for is a sense of wholeness, 00:09:31.539 --> 00:09:35.519 which makes it harder, but at least gives me 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:38.220 a vision of like, okay, well I'm not just trying 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:39.919 to stop something. I'm trying to like put something 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.580 better and deeper and more meaningful in its 00:09:42.580 --> 00:09:47.129 place. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other 00:09:47.129 --> 00:09:49.669 passage that comes to mind for me, especially 00:09:49.669 --> 00:09:52.830 during Advent, when we talk about peace is in 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:56.730 Isaiah chapter nine. And so there that's the 00:09:56.730 --> 00:09:59.210 section where, you know, the Christmassy part 00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:01.110 that we always talk about is for to us, a child 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:03.090 is born to us. A son is given. The government 00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:05.389 will be on his shoulders. He will be called Wonderful 00:10:05.389 --> 00:10:07.850 Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:10.110 of Peace. That's that's the Christmas part that 00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:13.950 we get to. But if we go a little bit before that. 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.299 The reason that Isaiah is saying for to us, a 00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:20.759 child is born. Like, so why do we care that this 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.340 child is born? And he's saying the people who 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:25.879 are walking in darkness have seen a great light. 00:10:26.779 --> 00:10:30.820 And then he says things like people will rejoice 00:10:30.820 --> 00:10:34.840 before the Lord because the yoke that burdens 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.919 them has been shattered. The bar across their 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.440 shoulders, the rod of their oppressors, all of 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.820 these things are gone. Every warrior's boot that 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:46.179 was used in battle and every garment rolled in 00:10:46.179 --> 00:10:48.320 blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.980 for the fire. Right? All of that. All of those 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:57.039 things that were causing pain, were causing conflict, 00:10:57.100 --> 00:11:00.220 are just gone. Right? And that's the vision. 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.039 Wow. Yeah. Wow. Just reflect on that. When you 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.799 hear that, what does that sort of bring up in 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:14.289 you? I'm reading that I'm in reading this. Yeah. 00:11:14.409 --> 00:11:17.269 I was thinking about it first. I just jumped 00:11:17.269 --> 00:11:19.909 to revelations because revelations 21 really 00:11:19.909 --> 00:11:23.070 echoes this, this promise and it shows it in 00:11:23.070 --> 00:11:25.169 its completeness. But as you were reading it, 00:11:25.250 --> 00:11:30.169 I started to see it through the lens of Jesus's 00:11:30.169 --> 00:11:33.649 contemporary audience, which were, they were 00:11:33.649 --> 00:11:37.549 reading this like every day and just waiting 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.409 for this Messiah. And it's, it's making me think 00:11:41.409 --> 00:11:44.850 about like the, we desire, we, everyone desires 00:11:44.850 --> 00:11:49.049 peace and we desire restoration. And, um, I could 00:11:49.049 --> 00:11:52.070 see, and I I'm tempted even now to, to read it 00:11:52.070 --> 00:11:56.399 through this, like, uh, easy access or like a 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.759 quick, uh, redemption narrative. Like when he 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.279 says that the government will be on his shoulders 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.879 and that yoke will come off of you. I can understand 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.600 how they were waiting for a Messiah that would 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:10.879 have had, uh, like would have created change 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.600 and freedom from oppression, like right in that 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.039 moment. Right. Like big political change. Cause 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:17.700 what they thought was Jesus was going to come 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:22.590 and become a King on earth and just rip up the 00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:25.309 Roman government and it would have, they would 00:12:25.309 --> 00:12:27.950 have reigned on earth in that moment. And that 00:12:27.950 --> 00:12:30.230 didn't happen. It didn't happen that way. There 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:32.929 was something new that happened. There was something 00:12:32.929 --> 00:12:35.450 beautiful that happened. It was restoration in 00:12:35.450 --> 00:12:38.710 many ways, but it didn't happen in that moment. 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:42.250 And yeah, I think like, as we were saying before, 00:12:42.330 --> 00:12:46.409 I think if Peace is so like McDonald's to us. 00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:51.570 And it's so like drive through. We could be so 00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:55.429 fixated on what happens now. But like the peace 00:12:55.429 --> 00:12:58.889 that passes understanding is is something first 00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:03.070 that's really hard to comprehend. And it's I 00:13:03.070 --> 00:13:05.730 think Christian Christianity, the way that we 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:07.970 should see peace is like we're looking forward. 00:13:08.110 --> 00:13:11.409 We're looking for that renewal and not be tempted 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:14.440 by the. easy things that could come now, like 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:18.419 the quick fix, but I'm reading it and I'm like, 00:13:18.460 --> 00:13:21.340 yeah, I get it. I get why they were, why they 00:13:21.340 --> 00:13:23.039 thought that was going to happen in that moment. 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:28.399 Right. Um, cause if your burden is so like your 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.580 yoke is so heavy, like, of course you want that, 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.909 that simple, not simple, but. you want something 00:13:35.909 --> 00:13:38.750 fixed in this moment. And yeah, that's really 00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:40.710 hard to wrestle with, but I'll stop there. Yeah. 00:13:40.710 --> 00:13:43.509 Yeah. No. And it just like, it creates this idea 00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:48.570 of a kind of peace that just quickly overthrows 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:51.789 enemies. Right. And like, I wonder like how that 00:13:51.789 --> 00:13:55.789 fits in with this concept of peace. Like is Jesus 00:13:55.789 --> 00:13:58.129 on this side of like, okay, we're creating peace 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.350 that just like immediately discount some people 00:14:01.350 --> 00:14:04.399 or is there like a redemptive? element in there 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.000 for those who were the oppressor right like i 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:09.860 think there's yeah we can wrestle with like what 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:13.580 that piece how that all fits together too i don't 00:14:13.580 --> 00:14:16.600 know it kind of reminds me of like um the passage 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:18.820 where You know, all the disciples are on the 00:14:18.820 --> 00:14:20.600 boat and Jesus is like sleeping in the boat. 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:22.480 Yeah. He's like taking a nap and it's like a 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.320 wild storm and everything. And everyone's like, 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.419 oh my God, we're going to die. Jesus, wake up, 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.840 do something. Right? Yeah. And they're probably 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:30.720 thinking, oh, he'll find a way to like, kind 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.899 of like rally them up and like get them out of 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.580 the storm. But he's just like, be still. That's 00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:39.759 it. That's all you got to do. Yeah. And then 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.899 everything calmed down. Right. So like how you 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:44.460 were saying in simple terms, it's just that. 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:47.779 We're expecting an escape route really quick, 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.279 quick fix, right? But Jesus is like, even amongst 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.539 that storm, you can literally walk on that water 00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:58.019 or we can part that sea. And Jesus will calm 00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:00.840 the storm. The promise is not to leave you in 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.460 the disaster. The promise is to trust and to 00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:06.799 wait. And that brings us back to that whole Advent, 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:10.460 right? Like that waiting and that longing, but 00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.289 also in the knowing that it will come. Right. 00:15:13.289 --> 00:15:16.750 Yeah, for sure. I think our human sense of peace 00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:20.929 is very fragile. I think it takes one person 00:15:20.929 --> 00:15:24.250 to start a war, to create chaos amongst a group 00:15:24.250 --> 00:15:27.590 of people. But really, it takes everyone to create 00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:31.389 peace. When one person doesn't, you don't have 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:36.149 peace, at least not in a complete sense. And 00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:38.529 that's why peace talks are so tough. Yeah, yeah. 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:41.649 You know, it's easy to start a war. It's a lot 00:15:41.649 --> 00:15:46.210 harder to start peace. Yep. But in the Christian 00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:47.490 sense that you were talking about, we were talking 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.590 about Jesus as the Prince of Peace. I think there 00:15:50.590 --> 00:15:56.059 is a much more... full and complete and tangible 00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:59.860 sense. I kind of think of it as like a heavy 00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:03.620 weighted blanket, right? And the peace of God 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:06.259 is kind of like that weighted blanket on conflict 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:10.539 and injustice, whereas it is not dependent on 00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:15.279 us. It's external. It's spiritual and divine. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.980 And it comes down and you feel the effect of 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:23.440 that. I think the other thing about the Prince 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.100 of Peace coming to a world of chaos and unrest 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:34.330 is that our sense of... peace, uh, and war is 00:16:34.330 --> 00:16:36.590 that it's, it's, it has to be kind of one or 00:16:36.590 --> 00:16:38.629 the other. And I think, uh, and I think there 00:16:38.629 --> 00:16:42.769 is, um, a godly peace that resides in the chaos. 00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:46.210 Uh, and that rep for me, that represents Jesus 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:49.370 coming into the, into the world, right. Uh, being 00:16:49.370 --> 00:16:53.309 that Prince of peace in a world of, uh, and a 00:16:53.309 --> 00:16:57.169 chaotic and an unjust world. Um, uh, the, um, 00:16:57.230 --> 00:17:00.220 and I think as Christians, I mean, as, being 00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:04.599 gifted with peace, then we are Jesus in the world. 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:08.980 And I think that we are called also to be peace 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:13.359 in a chaotic and unjust world. And that's our 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:20.740 role. That's our task to go out and just to emulate 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:26.990 or resonate God's peace in and through us. I 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:28.670 just, in terms of the, you know, the kind of 00:17:28.670 --> 00:17:30.869 the work that I've, I've done in the past and 00:17:30.869 --> 00:17:34.410 I'm training to become a deacon and then, you 00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:37.309 know, Lord willing, when I become a deacon, you 00:17:37.309 --> 00:17:40.109 know, a lot of my interest in my role is to, 00:17:40.109 --> 00:17:43.869 is to be, is not, is to do it myself, but I'll, 00:17:43.869 --> 00:17:47.089 but to be encouraging people to go out into the 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:49.750 community and to, and to be Christ in the world 00:17:49.750 --> 00:17:53.769 and to, and I think a lot of that is about. extending 00:17:53.769 --> 00:18:00.210 that sense of peace. And I mean, probably have 00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:01.970 had it happen to you. It's happened to a lot 00:18:01.970 --> 00:18:03.910 of people where they come up to you and go, you 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:06.289 know, why are you different than everybody else? 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:10.470 And I think people get a sense of that. And I 00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:13.049 think one of the reasons why they sense that 00:18:13.049 --> 00:18:17.380 from Christians. is when they have a mature faith 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:20.339 and they have an attitude of, among other things, 00:18:20.380 --> 00:18:23.980 peace, and then that makes a difference around 00:18:23.980 --> 00:18:28.039 them. And people see that, whether that's the 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.440 light or however you want to describe it. But 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.160 for this conversation, we're talking about... 00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:38.430 being, uh, peaceful as, as a people and being, 00:18:38.450 --> 00:18:41.210 and emanating that sense of peace. It's not from 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:44.410 us, but it's just flows through God and, uh, 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:46.630 and, and people are drawn to that and they want 00:18:46.630 --> 00:18:48.890 to, they may not understand it, but they want 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.250 to know. And sometimes they ask, why are you 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:54.430 different? Like all this stuff is happening in 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:57.869 the world and you know, you seem, you know, calm, 00:18:57.990 --> 00:19:00.930 you seem relaxed, you seem at peace. Why are 00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:03.769 you at peace when all this stuff is going on? 00:19:03.829 --> 00:19:07.200 Yeah. Yeah, as you were talking there, I was 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.839 sort of thinking about, OK, so then what does 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.759 it mean to be someone who is at peace and someone 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.900 who like carries peace into the world and into 00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:16.079 our relationships? Because I think one of the 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.460 temptations that I sometimes face is to conflate 00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:24.740 peace and conflict avoidance and to say that, 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.180 OK, in order to be a peaceful person in the world, 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:31.980 I always need to just be polite and. non -offensive 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:35.619 right and i think that's part of it i think that 00:19:35.619 --> 00:19:37.440 there are moments where we're called to just 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.680 let that be but i think that if we're talking 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.200 about a deeper kind of peace there are going 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.299 to be moments where me being a person of peace 00:19:49.299 --> 00:19:52.839 in the world is going to be uncomfortable for 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.480 myself and maybe for the other person right if 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.579 i'm sort of coming up against their False sense 00:19:58.579 --> 00:20:01.779 of peace or my false sense of peace. I'm remembering. 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:07.220 So I took this class in undergrad. It was conflict 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:12.660 resolution. And my professor, he made us memorize 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.660 the prayer of Francis of Assisi, which I don't 00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:18.950 remember. off the top of my head totally anymore. 00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:23.309 So sorry, Dr. Boyce. But it still comes back 00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:25.109 to me and it was making me, when you were speaking, 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:27.069 I remembered, I started thinking about it and 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:28.509 it says, Lord, make me an instrument of your 00:20:28.509 --> 00:20:30.990 peace. where there is hatred, let me sow love, 00:20:31.170 --> 00:20:33.329 where there is injury, pardon, where there is 00:20:33.329 --> 00:20:36.089 doubt, faith, where there is despair, hope, where 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:38.089 there is darkness, light, where there is sadness, 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:40.190 joy. And I think the second part, I won't read 00:20:40.190 --> 00:20:42.670 the whole thing, but, oh, divine master, grant 00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:44.970 that I may not so much seek to be consoled as 00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:48.369 to console, to be understood as to understand, 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:53.950 and to be loved as to love. And I think the part 00:20:53.950 --> 00:20:59.839 that is what it calls me to think of is, Peace, 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.839 I think that conflict avoidant part is like us 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.000 trying to create that sense of peace for ourself. 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:08.390 And I think it comes from. Like humans naturally 00:21:08.390 --> 00:21:12.170 are very selfish. We're trying to survive and 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:15.630 we can kind of try and like if I can protect 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.990 myself, then I'll be fine. And I think sometimes 00:21:19.990 --> 00:21:22.069 that makes us like flip into like this victim 00:21:22.069 --> 00:21:25.990 mode where like one we can avoid to only bad 00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:29.930 things can happen to me and I could do no wrong. 00:21:30.210 --> 00:21:33.529 And but what this prayer, I think, calls us to 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:39.319 remember is that. Peace is active. As Christians, 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:43.920 we're also called to share that peace. And peace 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.500 also calls us into right relationship and calls 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:52.130 us to seek to... to end the things where we were 00:21:52.130 --> 00:21:55.390 participating in it, where we where we have created 00:21:55.390 --> 00:21:58.390 senses of un -peace and injustice like we need 00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:02.049 to un -peace. That's not a word. That was good. 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:06.549 Yeah. Well, maybe Oxford, add that one. Where 00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:10.450 we have created conditions for for violence or 00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:15.599 for harm. It's our responsibility to to to. to 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.740 make those things right. Um, and so, yeah, like 00:22:18.740 --> 00:22:20.960 it's not just me sitting in a corner saying, 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.720 well, I wasn't participating in that, but to 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:28.759 be very involved in creating those conditions, 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:33.079 um, calling things out, naming, helping people 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.180 when I can, uh, make like it used to be an instrument. 00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:40.559 Like I'm willing to be used God and whether it's 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.660 uncomfortable for me or it's, it's comforting. 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:45.680 I need to be participating in that. Sure. Yeah. 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:48.619 Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely an attitude check, 00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.500 I think. Cause like while you were saying the, 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.299 what's it called? The prayer of Francis and Sassy. 00:22:54.380 --> 00:22:56.799 It's a peacemaker prayer. The peacemaker prayer. 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.039 Yeah. So when you, when you were saying that, 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.700 and then we were also kept. you know, referencing 00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:04.619 to Philippians saying about the peace that surpasses 00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:07.339 all understanding, right? This is actually the 00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:10.079 scripture that I've been kind of sort of practicing 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.819 at work because like it's super fast paced. I 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:14.880 make a lot of mistakes. I'm a trainee, right? 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.799 And so I looked at the verse before that. So 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.039 it's Philippians chapter four, verses six to 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.180 seven. So six starts going, do not be anxious 00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:28.210 over anything, but by prayer and petition. with 00:23:28.210 --> 00:23:30.430 thanksgiving now that's an attitude check because 00:23:30.430 --> 00:23:33.029 a lot of us are like oh my gosh we i want to 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:35.009 bring my request to god and like you know get 00:23:35.009 --> 00:23:37.930 it solved but we don't realize most of it is 00:23:37.930 --> 00:23:40.950 to be grateful for what we have and actually 00:23:40.950 --> 00:23:44.529 serve in those fields right and so yeah so then 00:23:44.529 --> 00:23:46.450 the rest goes like with thanksgivings bring your 00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:50.750 request to god so that the peace that surpasses 00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:54.750 all understanding protects your mind and your 00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:58.609 heart in Christ Jesus. And I was like, once I 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:00.869 started meditating on that and trying to practice 00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:03.789 that at workplace, I was like, this is like flipping 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:07.359 the switch on my attitude. for everything that 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.579 I do. Right. And that's how we can do everything 00:24:10.579 --> 00:24:13.339 for the glory of God. Right. And I feel like 00:24:13.339 --> 00:24:15.720 that's like basically the solution, the attitude 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.099 check and then being able to serve. I like the 00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.400 idea that, uh, peace is protective, uh, defensive. 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.579 Uh, it's, uh, the, uh, and it's, uh, and it's 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:29.200 also active. Right. And when you, when you read 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.740 through the, uh, the prayer of St. Francis, uh, 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:36.180 it is, uh, it is replacing the negative. with 00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:38.359 the positive. So it's not just the cessation 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:42.700 of negative things, war and violence and injustice 00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:46.779 and all that, but it's also to put in its place 00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:50.940 all the positive things. uh and love and hope 00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:54.240 and uh and serving others and all you know all 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.819 that kind of stuff that that that uh so peace 00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:59.940 isn't just the you know stopping war but it is 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:02.680 uh it is creating the environment where people 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.019 can can live together um in a much more positive 00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:11.039 way absolutely yeah and i think like i'm just 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.140 sort of going back to like where we started this 00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:15.930 conversation in talking about You know, peace 00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:19.069 is the thing that we all desire. And like the 00:25:19.069 --> 00:25:22.109 world knows that everybody knows marketing knows 00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:28.549 that we all want this sense of peace. But do 00:25:28.549 --> 00:25:30.930 we are we willing to put in the hard work to 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:34.589 get there? I think is a question. Right. And 00:25:34.589 --> 00:25:38.289 are we willing to say that maybe the peace that 00:25:38.289 --> 00:25:41.269 we actually want looks different than the peace 00:25:41.269 --> 00:25:44.440 that we think we want? Like, I might think. that 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:50.400 i want peace but if my if peace like real peace 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.880 is gonna come at a cost where like maybe it means 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.039 that like i need to look at some of my areas 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.299 of privilege and like divest myself of that so 00:25:59.299 --> 00:26:02.779 that other people can experience peace yeah right 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:07.519 like that's hard do i want peace around people 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:11.809 to stop calling me out or being annoying yeah 00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:14.970 just be silent so I don't have to hear all the 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:19.029 problems which I yeah it's It's true. Yeah. Going 00:26:19.029 --> 00:26:22.029 back to the beginning to your dads are hard to 00:26:22.029 --> 00:26:24.990 buy for. Yes. And he says your dad's response 00:26:24.990 --> 00:26:27.910 was, you know, what he wanted was peace in the 00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:30.950 world. Yes. That was I was very impressed with 00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:34.190 that answer because it's because it's so altruistic. 00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:36.769 Right. I mean, I think for a lot of people, when 00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:39.390 we wish for peace, where we want the peace and 00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:43.349 quiet, that is just for us. Right. I mean, we 00:26:43.349 --> 00:26:45.609 want to be, you know, leave me alone. You know, 00:26:45.609 --> 00:26:48.000 I. I have visions of like, you know, someone 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.619 like soaking in the tub. Right. You know, some 00:26:50.619 --> 00:26:52.279 candles. Yes, I want peace. I want a day off. 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:54.880 And a glass of wine and stuff. Just don't bother 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:57.099 me for half an hour. I just need some peace and 00:26:57.099 --> 00:27:01.319 quiet. Right? It's so internal. It's so greedy. 00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:05.720 Right? In a sense, that kind of peace. And where 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:07.519 we can kind of grab for it and we cling on to 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:09.759 it. And we don't want to share it. We don't want 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.059 anyone else to be part of that. But what your 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.920 dad wanted was peace in the world. And I think 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.740 that's the... That's a much more altruistic, 00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:26.359 much more, I think, kind of open and unselfish 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.799 understanding and defining peace. Peace can't 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:35.440 be one person. It needs to be shared and cultivated 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:41.819 in a larger group, grown and developed. Cultivated. 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.680 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an action. It's 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.440 a choice that we each make individually, but 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.220 then joining all of those individual actions 00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:54.279 together. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then it 00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:56.759 just turns into the gift of peace that it is. 00:27:56.859 --> 00:27:59.599 Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, so sort of like 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:01.539 we said with hope last week, that like hope is 00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:04.140 both a gift given to us from God and then a calling 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:05.559 or something that we have to like go out and 00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:09.180 do. I think peace is similar, right? It's a gift 00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.180 that we get from God. God says, here's some peace. 00:28:12.380 --> 00:28:16.180 Like, like you get that in, in your heart and 00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:19.000 now go and live that out in your relationships. 00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:24.009 Right. Yeah. Like, I see it as like a kind of 00:28:24.009 --> 00:28:26.230 like echoing back to the passage that you were 00:28:26.230 --> 00:28:29.269 referencing, like this covering, but the covering, 00:28:29.329 --> 00:28:32.170 like protecting your heart is not just for you, 00:28:32.210 --> 00:28:34.829 but it's so that you can be active in the world 00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:39.150 so that you can share that experience with others 00:28:39.150 --> 00:28:41.430 so that they can also protect their heart. Because 00:28:41.430 --> 00:28:45.720 the reality is we need it. The world hasn't just 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.680 been hard now. If we think about the conditions 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:56.900 that Isaiah wrote that whole book on, it's been 00:28:56.900 --> 00:29:00.819 hard. But the only way we can get through it, 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:05.119 the only way that we can get that yoke removed 00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:09.319 and we can experience that freedom. Now is by 00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:11.839 having that covering so that we can get to that 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:13.759 promise, that ultimate promise that Christ has 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.700 promised us and that Christ will provide, like 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:20.539 the storm will end. But until then, there's this 00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.200 promise that we have, this covering that we have 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.619 that can get us through until it's ended. Yeah. 00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:31.890 Yeah. It's the now. we get some of that and not 00:29:31.890 --> 00:29:35.789 yet. It's coming. Yeah. Advent. Yeah. Advent. 00:29:36.809 --> 00:29:40.950 Well, the idea of peace is tied to Christmas 00:29:40.950 --> 00:29:43.829 quite a lot. I mean, like you, you read a passage 00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:46.750 from Isaiah that, that is, that's read a lot 00:29:46.750 --> 00:29:49.569 this time of year because it points to Christ 00:29:49.569 --> 00:29:51.369 coming into the world, the Prince of Peace coming 00:29:51.369 --> 00:29:56.029 into a world of chaos. And, and I think, so, 00:29:56.150 --> 00:29:57.730 you know, part of that is very intentional, but 00:29:57.730 --> 00:30:00.549 I think too, we, we are, we, We do yearn for 00:30:00.549 --> 00:30:03.690 peace. the time of Christmas is a time for us 00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:06.490 to be kind of reflecting on, on that kind of 00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:10.109 stuff and, and, and working towards, um, you 00:30:10.109 --> 00:30:12.349 know, a better world. And I mean, you hear the 00:30:12.349 --> 00:30:15.369 stories of soldiers during war on Christmas day, 00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:17.910 you know, not fighting, but they coming together 00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:20.430 and sharing a Christmas meal together. And, and, 00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.750 uh, and then next, next day, the, the, you know, 00:30:22.750 --> 00:30:25.529 guns start blasting again, but they, uh, but 00:30:25.529 --> 00:30:28.130 that one, that one day, you know, the, um, uh, 00:30:28.210 --> 00:30:30.529 they, uh, people can come together in, in peace 00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:33.430 because, uh, a shared meaning and understanding 00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:37.569 of what peace is during Christmas. Yeah, for 00:30:37.569 --> 00:30:40.410 sure. You just need to make that last all year 00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:43.289 long. If only the meal was like, you know, there's 00:30:43.289 --> 00:30:45.029 some sort of conversation that happens within 00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:46.730 that and they're like, you know what, let's not 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:49.390 do this tomorrow. Which is ironic because with 00:30:49.390 --> 00:30:51.029 most families is when they come together for 00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:53.529 a meal, that's when there is no peace. That's 00:30:53.529 --> 00:30:59.250 when the peace shatters. Right, yes. Well, thank 00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:01.130 you so much, folks. I think this has been a really 00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:04.109 rich conversation to figure out not just what 00:31:04.109 --> 00:31:07.450 peace isn't, but what it is. And also then to 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:13.130 challenge us to live that. And yes, to experience 00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:16.289 that as a gift from God and to remember we get 00:31:16.289 --> 00:31:22.329 this. It's real. And it's hard. And we can go 00:31:22.329 --> 00:31:26.160 out and share that with other people. Yeah. Thank 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.539 you. And thank you for tuning in to this week's 00:31:28.539 --> 00:31:30.799 episode of Trinity Talks. I pray that your week 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.579 is filled with moments of peace and that whether 00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:37.299 that is challenging or whether that is joyful 00:31:37.299 --> 00:31:40.680 for you, that, yeah, you can just find that sense 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.480 of peace that passes all understanding, that 00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.420 keeps your heart and mind now and in the days 00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:48.440 ahead. And we will see you again next week.