Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Britton.
And I am Bill. And we are here to continue chatting
about Advent, this season that prepares us to
celebrate Christmas. And today we are lighting
two candles, one, two, on our table here. So
the first candle we talked about last week is
the candle of hope. The second candle is the
candle of peace. Peace is nice. I think we would
all love some peace. Yeah, but just sort of as
a starter, when you hear the word peace, what
comes to mind for you? Stillness. Stillness.
Okay. Yes. Very chill. Yeah. Calmness. Yeah.
Quiet. Yeah. Tranquility. Yes. Things that, like
I said, I think we could all use a little more
of that. Peace and quiet. Yes. Yes. Mixed together.
Often come together. Beautiful mix. Peace and
quiet. Yes. So dads are hard to buy Christmas
presents for. And my dad, every year when I'm
like, hey dad, what do you want for Christmas?
He says, I would like peace on earth. Okay. And
this is a great idea. I unfortunately cannot
order it from Amazon. It's not offered? No, it
is not. But yeah. It's something I think we're
all hoping for and something that sounds really
nice, but is a little elusive maybe. I don't
know. Yeah. Yeah. So peace is this like stillness
and calmness is when we think about peace in
a Christian context, we think about, okay, God
gives us peace. Is that what we're talking about?
Is it this sense of stillness and calmness? Is
it something different than that? I think most
of the time, When we think of peace, we don't
actually think of the definition of peace. We
think of what peace isn't or what the opposite
of peace is. I think we're more familiar or comfortable.
um, with, uh, with war understanding like war.
Um, and, uh, and then when we say, you know,
peace, we talk about pieces, pieces, the absence
of war is, I mean, we don't like war. We would,
and when war ends, we have peace. Right. But
I, but, uh, I think, but beyond that, I don't
think that there's a, I mean, it's a goal to
have peace and to be peaceful, but I, but I think
we're as a culture, as a people, I think we're
kind of stuck in the chaotic. I think maybe we,
we like, um, the, uh, It may not like, you know,
war, but just the chaos of of that and and the
and maybe not as familiar or as comfortable with
peace, even though it's something that we say
we want. Sure. Yeah. We often, I think, define
peace as like what it's not to say like, OK,
we don't want war. We don't want yelling. We
don't want noise and chaos. But what is peace?
But what is peace? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
The definition. You're right. The definition
was or is. uh, the, what was it? Oh, I had it.
Yeah. A stater period in which there is no war
or war has ended. And like the Christian context
that like, I think I struggle with that. Like
I, especially today and like seeing how like.
everyone's trying to close off wars and stop
them, which I think is a good thing. For sure.
But as soon as a war ends, doesn't mean that
there's peace. Right. And I don't, I don't think
that's like, it is the stopping of something,
the stopping of some form of injustice or the
stopping of violence. doesn't automatically create,
it can create the conditions for peace to be
shared. On the road to peace. Yes. It's a pathway.
It's definitely needed, but the stopping of something,
the stopping of a negative doesn't automatically
create a positive. And I think the Christian
sense is there is something more that has to
happen that God calls us into and calls us to
experience in order for that peace to happen.
So I would tell Oxford Dictionary, maybe you
need to add a couple more. more sentences. With
a more positive definition of peace as opposed
to what it's not. Yeah. I also think like while
you guys were talking about that, I realized
like a lot of like the marketing tactics that
we see like on advertisements and stuff is like
they're always trying to market peace through
the chaos. Like, oh, if you see, I don't know,
an advertisement for a coffee, right? Then they're
like, oh, early morning coffee, see the sunrise.
It's a lovely, gentle experience. But it's always
a lure. It's never achievable. I mean, the idea,
the commercialization of peace is always something
that is almost attainable. If you have that coffee,
then yes, then maybe you can get peace. If you
have this, you get this. If you buy this, then
it's always something lacking externally. That
will, in a consumerism culture, that will be,
that's the answer, right? If you only get this,
then you can maybe achieve peace. Exactly. I
would even say it's a distraction. And we're
so hungry for peace. We're so hungry for... almost
like escapism from what we see in this world,
that some of that marketing is just pushing something
that can like subside or get us to ignore the
chaos that we're experiencing today. I think
there's many things that we do, especially in
the consumerism, that is like trying to fill
a void, trying to create conditions for peace.
But really what it's doing is just ignoring the
real problems that is preventing peace from being
possible. And I think consumerism does a lot
of that. Like people go to the mall. to buy things,
not necessarily because they need anything, but
because they're looking to, like, I think there's
a study that shows like you buy like two, three
things and like you start to, something happens
in your body. You start to feel good. Yeah. And
I can say, that's true. When I buy a pair of
Nikes, I feel better about myself. Cause you're
a person wearing Nikes now. That's pretty cool.
Is it really like after I see that bill that
I'm back to like where I was before? I'm like,
oh, should I really have done this? Right. And
all the things that I was trying to feel like
I haven't actually done those things. So, yeah,
I think it's more I think we create we assume
or we like to act like things that are peaceful
or is what we assume is peaceful. It's actually
I think it's just us avoiding the deeper issues
that we have within our world. Yeah. Like coffee
masks. tiredness right like yeah you take caffeine
to kind of boost your energy yes i did that this
morning I'm still tired. Just not for now. Yeah,
for sure. I think we often think that peace is
something that we can achieve for ourselves,
but the Bible tells us it's a gift. Right. And
I think part of the reason that we're even in
our conversation here and as a larger people
where we have a problem defining peace is because
I think it's indefinable in a certain way. It
is hard to describe. It's unknowable. The Bible
says that you'll be given a peace that is beyond
understanding. We're not meant to get it. It's
a gift from God. It's the peace of Christ. And
I think as a gift. It's something that we have
for ourselves. It becomes a state of our being.
And although we can't get it ourselves, I think
it's not only a gift, but it's also a discipline.
So I think once we have peace given to us by
Christ, then we can work. on, uh, growing it
and building it up within ourselves. It's like
a, like a muscle, right? The same way our muscles,
we didn't get, we didn't get our muscles. Our
muscles are gifts. And, uh, but we can, we can
through discipline and through hard work, working
out, we can grow our muscles, strengthen our
muscles. And so I think we, in the same way,
we can also, uh, strengthen our, uh, sense of,
uh, peace, not only within ourselves, but but
radiating that peace in the, in the larger community.
So I think, you know, while it is a gift from
God, I think, I think peace can also be a flex.
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like the kids say. Yeah. And
the, and so that, and, and be Christ. to others.
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. There's a couple
of things that come to mind for me when I think
about peace and trying to figure out what it
is. And one is the Hebrew word Shalom, which
gets translated as peace. But one of the reasons
that I love that word is because it just has
so many other meanings sort of layered in it.
So it's like peace, but it's also a sense of
wholeness, a sense of being complete. and justice
and like things are set right. Yes. Right. And
that I think gives us a positive vision of, okay,
what we're working for is not just no conflict.
What we're working for is a sense of wholeness,
which makes it harder, but at least gives me
a vision of like, okay, well I'm not just trying
to stop something. I'm trying to like put something
better and deeper and more meaningful in its
place. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other
passage that comes to mind for me, especially
during Advent, when we talk about peace is in
Isaiah chapter nine. And so there that's the
section where, you know, the Christmassy part
that we always talk about is for to us, a child
is born to us. A son is given. The government
will be on his shoulders. He will be called Wonderful
Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince
of Peace. That's that's the Christmas part that
we get to. But if we go a little bit before that.
The reason that Isaiah is saying for to us, a
child is born. Like, so why do we care that this
child is born? And he's saying the people who
are walking in darkness have seen a great light.
And then he says things like people will rejoice
before the Lord because the yoke that burdens
them has been shattered. The bar across their
shoulders, the rod of their oppressors, all of
these things are gone. Every warrior's boot that
was used in battle and every garment rolled in
blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel
for the fire. Right? All of that. All of those
things that were causing pain, were causing conflict,
are just gone. Right? And that's the vision.
Wow. Yeah. Wow. Just reflect on that. When you
hear that, what does that sort of bring up in
you? I'm reading that I'm in reading this. Yeah.
I was thinking about it first. I just jumped
to revelations because revelations 21 really
echoes this, this promise and it shows it in
its completeness. But as you were reading it,
I started to see it through the lens of Jesus's
contemporary audience, which were, they were
reading this like every day and just waiting
for this Messiah. And it's, it's making me think
about like the, we desire, we, everyone desires
peace and we desire restoration. And, um, I could
see, and I I'm tempted even now to, to read it
through this, like, uh, easy access or like a
quick, uh, redemption narrative. Like when he
says that the government will be on his shoulders
and that yoke will come off of you. I can understand
how they were waiting for a Messiah that would
have had, uh, like would have created change
and freedom from oppression, like right in that
moment. Right. Like big political change. Cause
what they thought was Jesus was going to come
and become a King on earth and just rip up the
Roman government and it would have, they would
have reigned on earth in that moment. And that
didn't happen. It didn't happen that way. There
was something new that happened. There was something
beautiful that happened. It was restoration in
many ways, but it didn't happen in that moment.
And yeah, I think like, as we were saying before,
I think if Peace is so like McDonald's to us.
And it's so like drive through. We could be so
fixated on what happens now. But like the peace
that passes understanding is is something first
that's really hard to comprehend. And it's I
think Christian Christianity, the way that we
should see peace is like we're looking forward.
We're looking for that renewal and not be tempted
by the. easy things that could come now, like
the quick fix, but I'm reading it and I'm like,
yeah, I get it. I get why they were, why they
thought that was going to happen in that moment.
Right. Um, cause if your burden is so like your
yoke is so heavy, like, of course you want that,
that simple, not simple, but. you want something
fixed in this moment. And yeah, that's really
hard to wrestle with, but I'll stop there. Yeah.
Yeah. No. And it just like, it creates this idea
of a kind of peace that just quickly overthrows
enemies. Right. And like, I wonder like how that
fits in with this concept of peace. Like is Jesus
on this side of like, okay, we're creating peace
that just like immediately discount some people
or is there like a redemptive? element in there
for those who were the oppressor right like i
think there's yeah we can wrestle with like what
that piece how that all fits together too i don't
know it kind of reminds me of like um the passage
where You know, all the disciples are on the
boat and Jesus is like sleeping in the boat.
Yeah. He's like taking a nap and it's like a
wild storm and everything. And everyone's like,
oh my God, we're going to die. Jesus, wake up,
do something. Right? Yeah. And they're probably
thinking, oh, he'll find a way to like, kind
of like rally them up and like get them out of
the storm. But he's just like, be still. That's
it. That's all you got to do. Yeah. And then
everything calmed down. Right. So like how you
were saying in simple terms, it's just that.
We're expecting an escape route really quick,
quick fix, right? But Jesus is like, even amongst
that storm, you can literally walk on that water
or we can part that sea. And Jesus will calm
the storm. The promise is not to leave you in
the disaster. The promise is to trust and to
wait. And that brings us back to that whole Advent,
right? Like that waiting and that longing, but
also in the knowing that it will come. Right.
Yeah, for sure. I think our human sense of peace
is very fragile. I think it takes one person
to start a war, to create chaos amongst a group
of people. But really, it takes everyone to create
peace. When one person doesn't, you don't have
peace, at least not in a complete sense. And
that's why peace talks are so tough. Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's easy to start a war. It's a lot
harder to start peace. Yep. But in the Christian
sense that you were talking about, we were talking
about Jesus as the Prince of Peace. I think there
is a much more... full and complete and tangible
sense. I kind of think of it as like a heavy
weighted blanket, right? And the peace of God
is kind of like that weighted blanket on conflict
and injustice, whereas it is not dependent on
us. It's external. It's spiritual and divine.
And it comes down and you feel the effect of
that. I think the other thing about the Prince
of Peace coming to a world of chaos and unrest
is that our sense of... peace, uh, and war is
that it's, it's, it has to be kind of one or
the other. And I think, uh, and I think there
is, um, a godly peace that resides in the chaos.
Uh, and that rep for me, that represents Jesus
coming into the, into the world, right. Uh, being
that Prince of peace in a world of, uh, and a
chaotic and an unjust world. Um, uh, the, um,
and I think as Christians, I mean, as, being
gifted with peace, then we are Jesus in the world.
And I think that we are called also to be peace
in a chaotic and unjust world. And that's our
role. That's our task to go out and just to emulate
or resonate God's peace in and through us. I
just, in terms of the, you know, the kind of
the work that I've, I've done in the past and
I'm training to become a deacon and then, you
know, Lord willing, when I become a deacon, you
know, a lot of my interest in my role is to,
is to be, is not, is to do it myself, but I'll,
but to be encouraging people to go out into the
community and to, and to be Christ in the world
and to, and I think a lot of that is about. extending
that sense of peace. And I mean, probably have
had it happen to you. It's happened to a lot
of people where they come up to you and go, you
know, why are you different than everybody else?
And I think people get a sense of that. And I
think one of the reasons why they sense that
from Christians. is when they have a mature faith
and they have an attitude of, among other things,
peace, and then that makes a difference around
them. And people see that, whether that's the
light or however you want to describe it. But
for this conversation, we're talking about...
being, uh, peaceful as, as a people and being,
and emanating that sense of peace. It's not from
us, but it's just flows through God and, uh,
and, and people are drawn to that and they want
to, they may not understand it, but they want
to know. And sometimes they ask, why are you
different? Like all this stuff is happening in
the world and you know, you seem, you know, calm,
you seem relaxed, you seem at peace. Why are
you at peace when all this stuff is going on?
Yeah. Yeah, as you were talking there, I was
sort of thinking about, OK, so then what does
it mean to be someone who is at peace and someone
who like carries peace into the world and into
our relationships? Because I think one of the
temptations that I sometimes face is to conflate
peace and conflict avoidance and to say that,
OK, in order to be a peaceful person in the world,
I always need to just be polite and. non -offensive
right and i think that's part of it i think that
there are moments where we're called to just
let that be but i think that if we're talking
about a deeper kind of peace there are going
to be moments where me being a person of peace
in the world is going to be uncomfortable for
myself and maybe for the other person right if
i'm sort of coming up against their False sense
of peace or my false sense of peace. I'm remembering.
So I took this class in undergrad. It was conflict
resolution. And my professor, he made us memorize
the prayer of Francis of Assisi, which I don't
remember. off the top of my head totally anymore.
So sorry, Dr. Boyce. But it still comes back
to me and it was making me, when you were speaking,
I remembered, I started thinking about it and
it says, Lord, make me an instrument of your
peace. where there is hatred, let me sow love,
where there is injury, pardon, where there is
doubt, faith, where there is despair, hope, where
there is darkness, light, where there is sadness,
joy. And I think the second part, I won't read
the whole thing, but, oh, divine master, grant
that I may not so much seek to be consoled as
to console, to be understood as to understand,
and to be loved as to love. And I think the part
that is what it calls me to think of is, Peace,
I think that conflict avoidant part is like us
trying to create that sense of peace for ourself.
And I think it comes from. Like humans naturally
are very selfish. We're trying to survive and
we can kind of try and like if I can protect
myself, then I'll be fine. And I think sometimes
that makes us like flip into like this victim
mode where like one we can avoid to only bad
things can happen to me and I could do no wrong.
And but what this prayer, I think, calls us to
remember is that. Peace is active. As Christians,
we're also called to share that peace. And peace
also calls us into right relationship and calls
us to seek to... to end the things where we were
participating in it, where we where we have created
senses of un -peace and injustice like we need
to un -peace. That's not a word. That was good.
Yeah. Well, maybe Oxford, add that one. Where
we have created conditions for for violence or
for harm. It's our responsibility to to to. to
make those things right. Um, and so, yeah, like
it's not just me sitting in a corner saying,
well, I wasn't participating in that, but to
be very involved in creating those conditions,
um, calling things out, naming, helping people
when I can, uh, make like it used to be an instrument.
Like I'm willing to be used God and whether it's
uncomfortable for me or it's, it's comforting.
I need to be participating in that. Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely an attitude check,
I think. Cause like while you were saying the,
what's it called? The prayer of Francis and Sassy.
It's a peacemaker prayer. The peacemaker prayer.
Yeah. So when you, when you were saying that,
and then we were also kept. you know, referencing
to Philippians saying about the peace that surpasses
all understanding, right? This is actually the
scripture that I've been kind of sort of practicing
at work because like it's super fast paced. I
make a lot of mistakes. I'm a trainee, right?
And so I looked at the verse before that. So
it's Philippians chapter four, verses six to
seven. So six starts going, do not be anxious
over anything, but by prayer and petition. with
thanksgiving now that's an attitude check because
a lot of us are like oh my gosh we i want to
bring my request to god and like you know get
it solved but we don't realize most of it is
to be grateful for what we have and actually
serve in those fields right and so yeah so then
the rest goes like with thanksgivings bring your
request to god so that the peace that surpasses
all understanding protects your mind and your
heart in Christ Jesus. And I was like, once I
started meditating on that and trying to practice
that at workplace, I was like, this is like flipping
the switch on my attitude. for everything that
I do. Right. And that's how we can do everything
for the glory of God. Right. And I feel like
that's like basically the solution, the attitude
check and then being able to serve. I like the
idea that, uh, peace is protective, uh, defensive.
Uh, it's, uh, the, uh, and it's, uh, and it's
also active. Right. And when you, when you read
through the, uh, the prayer of St. Francis, uh,
it is, uh, it is replacing the negative. with
the positive. So it's not just the cessation
of negative things, war and violence and injustice
and all that, but it's also to put in its place
all the positive things. uh and love and hope
and uh and serving others and all you know all
that kind of stuff that that that uh so peace
isn't just the you know stopping war but it is
uh it is creating the environment where people
can can live together um in a much more positive
way absolutely yeah and i think like i'm just
sort of going back to like where we started this
conversation in talking about You know, peace
is the thing that we all desire. And like the
world knows that everybody knows marketing knows
that we all want this sense of peace. But do
we are we willing to put in the hard work to
get there? I think is a question. Right. And
are we willing to say that maybe the peace that
we actually want looks different than the peace
that we think we want? Like, I might think. that
i want peace but if my if peace like real peace
is gonna come at a cost where like maybe it means
that like i need to look at some of my areas
of privilege and like divest myself of that so
that other people can experience peace yeah right
like that's hard do i want peace around people
to stop calling me out or being annoying yeah
just be silent so I don't have to hear all the
problems which I yeah it's It's true. Yeah. Going
back to the beginning to your dads are hard to
buy for. Yes. And he says your dad's response
was, you know, what he wanted was peace in the
world. Yes. That was I was very impressed with
that answer because it's because it's so altruistic.
Right. I mean, I think for a lot of people, when
we wish for peace, where we want the peace and
quiet, that is just for us. Right. I mean, we
want to be, you know, leave me alone. You know,
I. I have visions of like, you know, someone
like soaking in the tub. Right. You know, some
candles. Yes, I want peace. I want a day off.
And a glass of wine and stuff. Just don't bother
me for half an hour. I just need some peace and
quiet. Right? It's so internal. It's so greedy.
Right? In a sense, that kind of peace. And where
we can kind of grab for it and we cling on to
it. And we don't want to share it. We don't want
anyone else to be part of that. But what your
dad wanted was peace in the world. And I think
that's the... That's a much more altruistic,
much more, I think, kind of open and unselfish
understanding and defining peace. Peace can't
be one person. It needs to be shared and cultivated
in a larger group, grown and developed. Cultivated.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an action. It's
a choice that we each make individually, but
then joining all of those individual actions
together. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then it
just turns into the gift of peace that it is.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, so sort of like
we said with hope last week, that like hope is
both a gift given to us from God and then a calling
or something that we have to like go out and
do. I think peace is similar, right? It's a gift
that we get from God. God says, here's some peace.
Like, like you get that in, in your heart and
now go and live that out in your relationships.
Right. Yeah. Like, I see it as like a kind of
like echoing back to the passage that you were
referencing, like this covering, but the covering,
like protecting your heart is not just for you,
but it's so that you can be active in the world
so that you can share that experience with others
so that they can also protect their heart. Because
the reality is we need it. The world hasn't just
been hard now. If we think about the conditions
that Isaiah wrote that whole book on, it's been
hard. But the only way we can get through it,
the only way that we can get that yoke removed
and we can experience that freedom. Now is by
having that covering so that we can get to that
promise, that ultimate promise that Christ has
promised us and that Christ will provide, like
the storm will end. But until then, there's this
promise that we have, this covering that we have
that can get us through until it's ended. Yeah.
Yeah. It's the now. we get some of that and not
yet. It's coming. Yeah. Advent. Yeah. Advent.
Well, the idea of peace is tied to Christmas
quite a lot. I mean, like you, you read a passage
from Isaiah that, that is, that's read a lot
this time of year because it points to Christ
coming into the world, the Prince of Peace coming
into a world of chaos. And, and I think, so,
you know, part of that is very intentional, but
I think too, we, we are, we, We do yearn for
peace. the time of Christmas is a time for us
to be kind of reflecting on, on that kind of
stuff and, and, and working towards, um, you
know, a better world. And I mean, you hear the
stories of soldiers during war on Christmas day,
you know, not fighting, but they coming together
and sharing a Christmas meal together. And, and,
uh, and then next, next day, the, the, you know,
guns start blasting again, but they, uh, but
that one, that one day, you know, the, um, uh,
they, uh, people can come together in, in peace
because, uh, a shared meaning and understanding
of what peace is during Christmas. Yeah, for
sure. You just need to make that last all year
long. If only the meal was like, you know, there's
some sort of conversation that happens within
that and they're like, you know what, let's not
do this tomorrow. Which is ironic because with
most families is when they come together for
a meal, that's when there is no peace. That's
when the peace shatters. Right, yes. Well, thank
you so much, folks. I think this has been a really
rich conversation to figure out not just what
peace isn't, but what it is. And also then to
challenge us to live that. And yes, to experience
that as a gift from God and to remember we get
this. It's real. And it's hard. And we can go
out and share that with other people. Yeah. Thank
you. And thank you for tuning in to this week's
episode of Trinity Talks. I pray that your week
is filled with moments of peace and that whether
that is challenging or whether that is joyful
for you, that, yeah, you can just find that sense
of peace that passes all understanding, that
keeps your heart and mind now and in the days
ahead. And we will see you again next week.