WEBVTT 00:00:03.719 --> 00:00:06.019 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.019 --> 00:00:09.119 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. Hello, my 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:12.380 name is Bill. My name is Naraya. My name is Britton. 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:16.359 And we're here to talk about Advent, which is 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:19.679 this Christian season that prepares us to celebrate 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.760 Christ's birth. And on the first Sunday of Advent, 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:27.940 we light one candle and we call it the Candle 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:30.760 of Hope. So we're going to chat a little bit 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.920 about what... hope means what that looks like 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.560 how it is i think much needed in our world today 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:42.539 no stuff um yeah but so first as we just think 00:00:42.539 --> 00:00:44.979 about what this is like when you hear the word 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:49.119 hope what comes to mind for you something positive 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:52.799 okay that's good yes kind of like there's a goal 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.640 that i'm waiting to achieve okay yes yeah yeah 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.920 i would like lean like both of those combined 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.710 like It's positive. It's like a future projection 00:01:03.710 --> 00:01:07.769 that I anticipate. And I anticipate it because 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:10.469 I believe that it could be. Like, I don't know 00:01:10.469 --> 00:01:11.689 if it's going to happen yet. It's almost like 00:01:11.689 --> 00:01:14.510 faith, but we won't go there. Sure, yeah. Yeah, 00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:18.689 no, it's definitely future -oriented, for sure. 00:01:19.829 --> 00:01:22.230 Yeah, like Advent, it's the coming of something. 00:01:22.530 --> 00:01:25.510 Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, for sure. And I think sometimes 00:01:25.510 --> 00:01:28.530 it's... ground your hope is grounded in the thing 00:01:28.530 --> 00:01:30.569 and sometimes it's just oh i'm gonna hold on 00:01:30.569 --> 00:01:36.650 and hope yeah um yeah so then when we think about 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:40.170 hope like in a faith -based context or in a christian 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:43.870 context is that different than when we think 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:48.390 about hope in a broad sense or is it the same 00:01:48.390 --> 00:01:52.519 yeah i would think so because like hope in a 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.099 general sense kind of feels like wishful thinking, 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.239 right? Like, oh, like, I hope that this will 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:02.840 happen. Maybe it might not. Sure. But in... The 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.280 Christian sense in a biblical sense, the hope 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.319 that we kind of have is like, it's annoying. 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.560 Like it's going to happen. Yeah. Or like even 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.560 if, but it's like annoying still. Sure. Yeah. 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.539 There's a, there's a casual hope that we use 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:22.259 just in every day. Like I hope she is doing well 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:25.479 or, you know, I hope you have a good day. Right. 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:31.389 I mean, it's a general. well -wishing for a person. 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:36.389 I think there's also a hope that is much more... 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.919 I don't know, human or maybe more material in, 00:02:40.939 --> 00:02:43.919 in, in sense where, you know, when you're, you're 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:45.860 hoping for something, you're hoping for, uh, 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:49.159 you know, a better job or hoping for more money 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:51.979 or hoping for, so there's, there's like, um, 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.680 there's, uh, a more immediate, uh, and a more, 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.800 uh, material, uh, sense to that or definition 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:04.740 to that kind of hope. More human. Yeah. Yeah. 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.169 I would say like, uh, The biblical sense of hope, 00:03:08.289 --> 00:03:10.629 it's like it's rooted, it's rooted in Christ. 00:03:10.770 --> 00:03:13.889 And I would say for the Christian, it's rooted 00:03:13.889 --> 00:03:17.289 in Christ and knowing that there is nowhere else 00:03:17.289 --> 00:03:22.330 we could put our faith or optimism or our future 00:03:22.330 --> 00:03:27.469 in. So, yeah, like there's in this when we come 00:03:27.469 --> 00:03:30.069 to Christ, we like it's like us finally realizing 00:03:30.069 --> 00:03:34.590 that there is no other hope. outside of of christ 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:40.129 yeah like all of the other hopes are like shallow 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:43.409 in some sense and sometimes based in like some 00:03:43.409 --> 00:03:46.469 material grounding but like not based in like 00:03:46.469 --> 00:03:49.969 an ultimate thing yeah yeah right a christian 00:03:49.969 --> 00:03:53.370 sense of hope is also um tends to be more eternal 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.400 You know, sort of a divine hope is a faithful 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:03.580 expectation for things to come. And, you know, 00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:05.740 whereas as I was saying, kind of like a more 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:08.740 human grounded sense of hope is more immediate 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.400 for something now. I think a Christian sense 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.500 of hope is we're looking to the future. We're 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:18.160 looking to, you know, the hope of Christ, the 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:24.029 hope of heaven. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like 00:04:24.029 --> 00:04:27.430 when I think about a Christian sense of hope 00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:30.750 and like what it means for me to like hope in 00:04:30.750 --> 00:04:37.089 Christ, it's like this deeply sustaining thing, 00:04:37.149 --> 00:04:41.170 I think. Right. Like it's it's this sense that 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:45.029 like it's very future oriented and they're like, 00:04:45.129 --> 00:04:48.769 I don't get it right now. But it is this thing 00:04:48.769 --> 00:04:53.980 that keeps me. looking to the future, I guess. 00:04:54.019 --> 00:04:57.600 Right. Like it, and it, it nourishes me somehow 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.579 in this moment to know that like all of the things 00:05:01.579 --> 00:05:05.839 swirling about me are not ultimate things. I 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:08.060 guess. Yeah. I don't know. That actually reminds 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:10.019 me of like the verse I was trying to tell you 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:13.040 earlier as well, which is Jeremiah 29, 11, where 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.100 at the end he's like, yeah, it's not to like, 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.800 you know, harm you, but I'm trying to give you 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:22.279 a future and a hope. So it's a lot more deeper 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:25.060 when we think of it as like, oh, yeah, it's not 00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:27.500 just, oh, everyday hope, like how you mentioned 00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:30.860 earlier. But we're looking forward to something 00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:33.540 that is so much more bigger than what we see. 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:36.800 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's why Christianity 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:41.319 is attractive for all people, but particularly 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:43.500 kind of in my experience and working with a lot 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:45.879 of underprivileged families through the years. 00:05:46.459 --> 00:05:49.000 and in traveling to different countries and seeing, 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:53.160 you know, some really kind of deep poverty, is 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.220 that, you know, the hope that we find in Christ 00:05:57.220 --> 00:06:01.720 in our faith is very appealing. Because when 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:06.220 you're in a situation where you have no hope, 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:11.829 right, and you're not likely... you know, to 00:06:11.829 --> 00:06:15.029 move much beyond that in this life, to have a 00:06:15.029 --> 00:06:19.790 sense of hope in the next life that, you know, 00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:22.769 that things will be made right, you know, and 00:06:22.769 --> 00:06:26.610 there'll be a place for me, you know, in heaven. 00:06:26.750 --> 00:06:31.670 And that is so, you know, even beyond our current 00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:35.889 situation, you know, in faith, we can have hope 00:06:35.889 --> 00:06:39.170 in something better. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:44.079 Yeah, it reminds me. So there's this section 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.600 in Romans chapter eight where Paul says, we know 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:50.079 that the whole creation has been groaning as 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.079 in the pains of childbirth right up until the 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:56.560 present time. Not only so, but we ourselves groan 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.720 inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.500 to sonship, the redemption of our bodies for 00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:06.860 in this hope. you were saved. Um, but hope that 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:11.060 is seen is no hope at all. Um, for who hopes 00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:13.100 for the things that they already have. Right. 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:17.879 Um, yeah. So it's, it is this thing that we're 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:19.839 like, okay, this is, this is the hope that we 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.379 were saved for knowing that redemption is coming, 00:07:22.459 --> 00:07:27.639 knowing that evil doesn't win in the end, but 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.860 it's a hope. It's not a present reality. Yeah. 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:33.319 Yeah. It's not in this time, but it will be. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:35.600 And then it fuels you. It's a very interesting 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.819 thing, the way that God sustains us because it's, 00:07:40.819 --> 00:07:44.920 yes, it's for what is to come, but it's like 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:47.220 past, present, and future all at the same time. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.540 God is working and moving and keeping us. So 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:54.220 like that hope is its future, but it still has 00:07:54.220 --> 00:07:58.579 that. that um ability to to fuel us for today 00:07:58.579 --> 00:08:02.160 which I don't I haven't come across any other 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:07.180 um like hopeful thinking that that does that 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:10.079 like usually people are anxiously hoping which 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:12.399 Paul kind of makes it sound like that but it's 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:15.800 like it's not a negative um undertone that he's 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:17.740 trying to produce he's like he's he's speaking 00:08:17.740 --> 00:08:19.800 about something that is like I would want to 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.579 groan for that Sure. Because I desire it so much. 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:27.000 And there's nothing else that can that can I 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.660 could I could be hopeful for other than this. 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:33.080 Right. Yeah. That's an interesting one. And I 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.120 think like as you were talking there, what sort 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.779 of came to mind for me was like that this is 00:08:37.779 --> 00:08:42.320 a hope that like we can't bring about by ourselves. 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.080 Like sometimes when we're hoping for things, 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.419 it's like, I hope I get that job. And it's like, 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.500 OK, so do some work to make sure that you can. 00:08:48.940 --> 00:08:51.279 be set up to get that job. But when we're hoping 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:56.399 for redemption and new creation, I, I don't have 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.100 to do anything to make that come. Yeah. Right. 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:04.220 And so it is, it's, it's then like less of an 00:09:04.220 --> 00:09:07.740 anxious. Yeah. Because I can't make it. Yeah. 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.340 Yeah. Yeah. Not in ourselves, not through ourselves, 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:13.500 but fully through Christ and in Christ. That's 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:16.179 why we're able to have that opportunity to even 00:09:16.179 --> 00:09:20.539 be hopeful. There's a verse as well in Romans. 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:24.779 I can't recollect the first part of it, but it 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:28.899 says the hope is actually powered by the Holy 00:09:28.899 --> 00:09:32.240 Spirit. And so when I first thought of it, I 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.059 was like, oh yeah, because we as humans, when 00:09:35.059 --> 00:09:37.220 we're going through everything, through all this 00:09:37.220 --> 00:09:39.320 suffering and whatever else we have to endure, 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.039 then we can't really produce that hope. We can't 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:46.720 really figure out how to hope, right? And then 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.559 as we pray about it, as we lean more in Christ, 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:54.139 the more we not really have to understand why 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:56.659 this is happening, but know that he's got it 00:09:56.659 --> 00:09:59.720 all in control. That's when we're like a lot 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:03.340 more hopeful. Yeah, for sure. I'm glad you brought 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:06.120 up the Romans 8 passage because I was reading 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:10.320 that. earlier and and the the exact thing about 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:14.460 you know hope is for things unseen yeah or yet 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:17.379 unseen and and you know people don't hope for 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:22.639 what they already have and and it just made me 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:25.159 think that yeah there's different there's different 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:28.559 levels or different different kinds of hope in 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.639 different people. I mean, there's people, you 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.620 know, unfortunately, there's people that are 00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:36.460 hopeless, right? And I think that's the most. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.240 Uh, you know, for me, I think that's the most 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.360 sad is when people, uh, individually have lost 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.000 hope, uh, in themselves and in their faith and 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.440 in Christ and, um, and are just, um, uh, are 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.360 just kind of ungrounded and they, like they, 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:56.399 they just, they have nothing left to hope for 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:58.360 that's been drained out of them, beaten out of 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.279 them, you know, whatever. I think that's, uh, 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.039 that, that is a super sad. And then there's a 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.379 group of people that, uh, like Paul is talking 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:07.399 about in Romans that are, that aren't hoping 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.940 because they've, they have, they, they can see, 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.940 you know, what, so much of what people hope for 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:15.600 is a reality in their life. And so they don't 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.539 have a high level of hope. They don't need to 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:22.139 because so much of it has been realized in their 00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:26.039 own life here and now. And then there's, and 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.460 then there are those that, that do have the kind 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:30.299 of hope that we're, we're talking about. That's 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:37.330 a, a, a, a faithful, expectation of what's to 00:11:37.330 --> 00:11:39.929 come that Paul talks about in Romans and other 00:11:39.929 --> 00:11:43.070 places in the Bible where we're looking forward 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:48.350 to something restorative, something better, something 00:11:48.350 --> 00:11:51.590 greater, a place that has been prepared for us. 00:11:51.889 --> 00:11:57.590 And I just think if so many of us, especially 00:11:57.590 --> 00:12:01.259 in our culture, you know, have so much of what 00:12:01.259 --> 00:12:04.740 we, what we want, what we need, maybe not, maybe 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:07.519 not what we want, but that there, and so there 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:10.139 isn't as much opportunity for hope. You know, 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.820 there isn't that sense or yearning for hope because 00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:15.740 so much of this stuff is provided for us or that 00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:19.240 we, you know, and I think we lose some of that 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:22.320 sense of hopeful expectation that again, that 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.519 again leads to a more faithful or more eternal 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:30.759 sense of hope. Yeah. It's like a muscle that 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:34.200 we don't always have to practice. Yeah. Yeah. 00:12:35.139 --> 00:12:39.399 But it also reminds me of like this other verse 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.600 that is also in Romans, which is like with all 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.419 the suffering that we go through, right? So suffering 00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.399 produces endurance, endurance produces character, 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:51.940 and then character produces hope. I think that's 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:56.309 actually a Star Wars quote. Maybe it's in the 00:12:56.309 --> 00:13:02.230 Bible. It is. I think Giotto said it. Very wise 00:13:02.230 --> 00:13:09.149 words. Yes. But, yeah. And so, like, how we were 00:13:09.149 --> 00:13:11.909 just discussing, like, okay, there's, like, obviously 00:13:11.909 --> 00:13:13.450 so much of suffering and everything, and then 00:13:13.450 --> 00:13:18.789 it's hard to, like, hope for things. But at the 00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:22.460 end of it, like, it's our faith. in Christ that 00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:25.320 is like pulling us into that hope. And you mentioned 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:26.519 this, you were like, oh, I don't want to touch 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.120 on faith, but I feel like there's so much. Yeah, 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.460 because like faith itself when it's defined is, 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.159 hey, it's a substance of hope, the evidence of 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.580 unseen. Well, a number of times in Romans, it's 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:43.840 all together, right? Where Paul describes hope 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.789 as a faithful expectation. Right. So, I mean, 00:13:46.809 --> 00:13:52.029 faith is entwined in our sense of hope. But can 00:13:52.029 --> 00:13:53.610 I just like come back to what you were saying 00:13:53.610 --> 00:13:56.009 about like these types of people and these people 00:13:56.009 --> 00:13:59.350 who are like they they have no hope. They're 00:13:59.350 --> 00:14:03.330 hopeless because they just life is just rough. 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.730 And there's folks that like they don't really 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:08.409 want to hope or they don't hope because they 00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:09.610 have everything. They don't need to hope. Yeah, 00:14:09.629 --> 00:14:11.730 they don't need to hope. And there's the group 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:16.340 that Paul's talking about. Um, and it just, it's 00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:20.059 reminding me of the sermon series. Um, and in 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:22.320 thinking of those, like, it felt like those groups, 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:25.139 like Matthew was a part of this group that was 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:27.620 told that, you know, like, there's nothing for 00:14:27.620 --> 00:14:31.279 you. Like, you're just the scum. Um, and then 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.299 the sinners and then there's the Pharisees and 00:14:35.299 --> 00:14:38.000 Sadducees and they were like, you know, the, 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.620 they probably didn't, maybe they didn't hope, 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:42.519 maybe they didn't have anything to hope for. 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.659 Cause like they have everything, they have power, 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:48.659 heaven on earth. They already got it. But I, 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:53.179 I feel like there is even within our, our Christian 00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:56.720 community, um, especially with like within our 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.559 culture, like there's this, I don't think we 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:02.419 hope, I don't think we hope very much. Um, I 00:15:02.419 --> 00:15:04.679 think we read our Bibles. I think we come to 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.240 church and do like the things that we need to 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.460 do, but I don't think we necessarily feel that, 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:14.100 that groaning, um, that desire because everything 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.600 is like, it's content. It's good. It's fine. 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:20.500 That longing is just like you, when you realize 00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:23.659 that you can have everything you need and want, 00:15:23.860 --> 00:15:27.559 but still there's just this. There's this emptiness 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:33.100 that only, only Christ can fill. I think the, 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.179 so how I'm getting back to the sermon series 00:15:35.179 --> 00:15:39.320 is that Rob talked about how Matthew wasn't so 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.139 offended when Jesus said, like, I came for sinners. 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.059 Right. And if we know who we are, first, knowing 00:15:46.059 --> 00:15:49.590 that we're children of God. And so we are part 00:15:49.590 --> 00:15:51.590 of that inheritance, but also in knowing in our 00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:54.870 position that we could never attain any of this. 00:15:54.909 --> 00:15:59.429 Right. Except being part of that lineage, being 00:15:59.429 --> 00:16:02.870 a part of Christ's family like that. I think 00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:05.570 it positions us to have that type of hope where 00:16:05.570 --> 00:16:09.029 like it doesn't matter what it is or what we 00:16:09.029 --> 00:16:11.789 have or what we lose. Like Christ is enough. 00:16:11.889 --> 00:16:15.909 And I'm going to hope in that. Yeah, I just I. 00:16:16.590 --> 00:16:19.090 I wrestle with it. Like, do we actually hope? 00:16:19.409 --> 00:16:22.429 And I think like when I think about the moments 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:25.370 in my life where like I have felt like a deeply 00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:29.090 nourishing hope, it's like when life sucks. Right. 00:16:29.529 --> 00:16:32.769 Like when things are not going well, when I either 00:16:32.769 --> 00:16:35.049 in my own life or when I look at the world around 00:16:35.049 --> 00:16:37.710 me and I'm like, wow, this is a mess. Yeah. Right. 00:16:38.049 --> 00:16:40.830 That's when I'm like, I need hope right now. 00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:44.970 But when life is just sort of meh, like coasting 00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:47.320 along, then like. Yeah, you're right. We don't 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:54.100 exercise that muscle. Yeah. Yeah. I think hope 00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:58.299 is underrated in a large part. I don't know if 00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:00.639 that's specifically in our culture or whatever, 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:04.140 but I just don't think it's given its due in 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:08.259 terms of how it affects each of us individually, 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.460 how it affects us as a group, as a culture. I 00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:15.299 think of it as a bit like... I think there's 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:18.519 a lot of difference in a person or a family that 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:20.359 are going through some of the same situations, 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.160 similar situations. If they individually or as 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:28.700 a family have hope, they respond to it, they 00:17:28.700 --> 00:17:31.119 deal with it, they cope with it in a much different 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.220 way than a family that has less hope or no hope. 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.359 Sure. I think of it like computer games or video 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.259 games. with a health bar or a mana bar, right? 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.519 I mean, it would be so much easier in life if 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.779 we just, underneath us, we had a hope meter. 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.619 And we could, you know, and so we could see, 00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:54.119 you know, how much hope we have in our life right 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:58.160 now. And if we need to kind of recharge our sense 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.259 of hope, because I do believe that those of us 00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:06.019 who have a hope in things greater than themselves, 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:11.440 a hope in Christ, And again, the difference between 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.079 human hope and divine hope is human hope is grounded 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:17.680 so much in our material needs, like I was saying 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.799 before. It's hard to see beyond that. And when 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.680 we have that sense of divine hope, we're not 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.700 even necessarily thinking that that hope is going 00:18:28.700 --> 00:18:31.700 to result in a better situation for my life or 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.579 for my family's life. But it's a hope that... 00:18:34.940 --> 00:18:37.299 ultimately everything is going to be okay. Right. 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.440 That God has a plan for us and, and that, you 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.279 know, it, it might not, it might not mean that, 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.319 you know, I'm going to get out of a negative 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.920 situation, but it means that ultimately we will 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.059 persevere and we will, and we will end up in 00:18:53.059 --> 00:18:57.599 a, in a better place in a better way. Yeah. So 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:02.700 when I think about hope, I sort of think of it 00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:05.910 in this, like, two at least two faceted ways 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:09.950 but one is that like hope is a gift given to 00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:13.450 us by god that like as we were saying before 00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:15.569 we don't need to like earn that we don't need 00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:21.009 to work towards it and i think of hope as a calling 00:19:21.009 --> 00:19:23.109 in the sense of like god gives us a gift and 00:19:23.109 --> 00:19:24.589 now we need to decide what we're going to do 00:19:24.589 --> 00:19:28.769 with it right um yeah so like when you when you 00:19:28.769 --> 00:19:31.200 think about that does that resonate? And like, 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:32.940 in what ways do you sort of think about hope 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:38.279 as gift and as calling? Well, it brings me back 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.700 to, um, the passage that you mentioned, uh, Jeremiah 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:47.200 and that, that promise to give you hope and a 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.059 future, like that's a collective, uh, promise 00:19:50.059 --> 00:19:54.500 that, that God made. Um, and so it's not just 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.680 like this individual thing. So hope is not just 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.329 for me. Just like our Christian faith is not 00:20:00.329 --> 00:20:04.950 just for an individual. It's a collective, communal 00:20:04.950 --> 00:20:09.869 movement and gift. So we share that together. 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:13.789 And I think when we are hopeful, when we're given 00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:17.049 that gift, it's our opportunity to also share 00:20:17.049 --> 00:20:20.549 that around. So when I interact with people who 00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:26.700 are hopeless, even just... I pray. My essence, 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:30.880 my being, the way that I move in the world gives 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:35.500 people that touch of hope. There is something. 00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:37.519 There's something greater. There's something 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.400 to long for. It reactivates that sense. I think 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:44.079 that all humans are really, we desire. We desire 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:47.480 to see something greater, especially in the times 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.609 that we live in. So, yeah, I think it's not just 00:20:50.609 --> 00:20:53.109 for me. It's not if I'm holding it to myself, 00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:54.710 then maybe I don't fully understand what the 00:20:54.710 --> 00:20:57.150 gift is. Maybe there's some work I need to do 00:20:57.150 --> 00:20:59.589 there to to fully understand what God is calling 00:20:59.589 --> 00:21:03.690 me into. But I think hope is something that is 00:21:03.690 --> 00:21:07.390 the gift that God gives to an individual, but 00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:11.170 it's shared communally. Yeah, I agree with that, 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:13.920 because like on an individual. like standard, 00:21:14.019 --> 00:21:16.640 I wrestle with it as well. Like I'm, I cannot 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.920 fully understand hope, but if I were to like 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.059 go back into my Bible and be like, okay, the 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:25.240 one thing that the old Testament people, they 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:27.660 could hope for the Messiah is coming. And then 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:29.759 now in the new Testament, we as new Testament 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.099 people, we were looking forward to his return. 00:21:32.380 --> 00:21:35.240 Right. So that's the kind of hope I can acknowledge 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:37.759 and be like, okay, I understand this and that 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.450 we're all doing it together. Right. But on an 00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:43.049 individual, I'm like, I don't know how to hope. 00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:45.650 I don't know what this is. Interesting, yeah. 00:21:46.089 --> 00:21:48.930 I think there's, in terms of hope, there's a 00:21:48.930 --> 00:21:50.730 short term and a long term. I think there is 00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:57.079 a gift of hope that you can receive. You know, 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.559 from others, from reading the Bible, from praying. 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:08.200 And that is, you know, that's a feeling that's 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.339 temporary. It might get you through a difficult 00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:15.099 time. But I think there's also more of an attitude 00:22:15.099 --> 00:22:19.319 of hope that maybe is more of a discipline that 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:25.190 you... that you learn to grow and develop within 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:29.190 yourself as part of your overall journey of faith 00:22:29.190 --> 00:22:32.509 development and discipleship. Hope is a part 00:22:32.509 --> 00:22:37.490 of that, and it's less fleeting than the gift 00:22:37.490 --> 00:22:42.910 or the feeling of hope. And again, it goes less 00:22:42.910 --> 00:22:46.529 from the material, more to the eternal, where 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.990 you have an attitude of hope that's part of your 00:22:48.990 --> 00:22:53.299 growth. growing discipleship and learning in 00:22:53.299 --> 00:22:56.940 your faith, then it becomes, you know, part of 00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:00.119 who you are. It becomes a structure of who you 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:02.880 are as opposed to something that just comes and 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.400 goes based on how you feel. Yeah, like hope is 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:12.740 like a posture that we can take in some sense, 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.460 right? It's, yeah. Because it's not based on 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:20.460 circumstance. Right. It's not based on what I 00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:23.720 can see right now, because if it was only based 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.680 on what I can see right now, then, of course, 00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:28.059 hope is a fleeting thing. Right. Because there's 00:23:28.059 --> 00:23:29.740 going to be moments where it looks hopeless. 00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:34.720 But if hope is a posture that I can take that 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:40.220 says, despite what's in front of me, I trust 00:23:40.220 --> 00:23:44.910 that God will be faithful. I trust that. jesus 00:23:44.910 --> 00:23:48.150 is coming back that redemption is coming right 00:23:48.150 --> 00:23:52.910 then it yeah i think that changes things yeah 00:23:52.910 --> 00:23:57.690 yeah um and i think the other thing that i sometimes 00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:00.910 think about in terms of hope is hope is like 00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:05.470 a waiting but like an active waiting um that 00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:09.269 it's it's the thing the future oriented thing 00:24:09.269 --> 00:24:12.450 but like i'm not just sitting back waiting for 00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:16.240 god to do a thing in the future that i don't 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.940 know when that's coming right but god says okay 00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:22.960 no there's work for you to do here and now to 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.779 give hope to hopeless people as you were sort 00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:28.900 of saying that it's not an individual gift it's 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:31.960 a it's a collective thing so hope as an action 00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:35.079 yeah hope is an action Yeah. We're like, if we're 00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:36.839 looking on the groaning part, it makes me think 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:38.460 when I think of like the word groaning, I think 00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:41.660 of like someone's sick. So like a hope is infectious. 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.700 Okay. Not COVID, but hope is infectious. Okay. 00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:51.079 Say more about that. Like it, it impacts people. 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:54.799 Like there's something like the people that I've 00:24:54.799 --> 00:25:02.450 met who are truly hope filled are. it radiates 00:25:02.450 --> 00:25:04.609 off of them not to say that they're like overly 00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:07.849 optimistic or like they paint everything in like 00:25:07.849 --> 00:25:12.829 this positive brush but it's there's even if 00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:15.890 there's a disappointment or a setback now it's 00:25:15.890 --> 00:25:19.609 in the knowing that like god god is already taking 00:25:19.609 --> 00:25:23.809 care of my future um And that doesn't mean that 00:25:23.809 --> 00:25:25.769 we don't do anything in this present moment. 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:28.829 I think hope is also a response in knowing that 00:25:28.829 --> 00:25:32.009 God is going to make things right. And God promises 00:25:32.009 --> 00:25:35.289 to do that. I also, as a collective sense, I 00:25:35.289 --> 00:25:39.549 also take up that responsibility in myself too. 00:25:39.769 --> 00:25:44.369 And I participate in what is to come in that 00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:46.910 ushering into the kingdom. So I think it's in 00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:49.609 that way, it's active and it's present. Um, but 00:25:49.609 --> 00:25:52.789 it does something, uh, to us and it should be 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:55.369 infectious that, so that if I am operating in 00:25:55.369 --> 00:25:58.710 that, like in that spirit, then it'll cause you 00:25:58.710 --> 00:26:01.869 to feel, Hmm. Okay. There's something, something 00:26:01.869 --> 00:26:04.670 different here. I want it. And you go looking 00:26:04.670 --> 00:26:06.690 for it and you find it in Christ. And then you 00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:08.390 start carrying that on and the other person, 00:26:08.390 --> 00:26:10.710 the other person, the other person. I think that's 00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:12.470 what creates the opportunity for us to have like 00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:17.970 genuine, um, like collective, um, like spiritual 00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:21.369 community because we're all like, it's like iron, 00:26:21.430 --> 00:26:24.009 iron sharpens iron kind of thing. Like that, 00:26:24.130 --> 00:26:26.410 I think that's what creates that genuine thing. 00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:28.150 So that's why we have to have small groups and 00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:30.609 we, we connect with people and we pray together 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:32.910 and we, cause all those things, I think it's 00:26:32.910 --> 00:26:34.890 like the activation of, and the continuation 00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:37.970 of our hope. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. 00:26:38.250 --> 00:26:42.799 I, I, uh, I agree to like how, um, hope can kind 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.559 of be like infectious right like it can impact 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:47.640 like a butterfly effect or maybe even a domino 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:52.000 effect depending on how much so um but when i 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.319 remember like every time i've come across like 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.339 reading the book of philippians it's like it's 00:26:57.339 --> 00:26:59.480 known as the happiest book in the bible right 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.700 and every time i've read it i'm like i am a little 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:04.859 more hopeful i am a little more happier because 00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.000 of how despite his circumstances he was in jail 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.670 while he wrote this and he's like oh yeah I'm 00:27:10.670 --> 00:27:12.750 chilling. I'm looking forward to when I get out 00:27:12.750 --> 00:27:15.890 eventually. Right. Even though if at the end 00:27:15.890 --> 00:27:17.890 of it, I'm going to be martyred. Right. Right. 00:27:17.970 --> 00:27:22.490 Yeah. But it's like, that's a lot of hope. Hope 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:25.950 for things beyond yourself. Right. That's exactly 00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:28.890 it. There could be bad things happening in your 00:27:28.890 --> 00:27:31.569 future, but you can still be hopeful and not 00:27:31.569 --> 00:27:34.109 just for yourself, but for your people and for 00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:37.130 the world and for the future. Yeah. And he was 00:27:37.130 --> 00:27:39.930 like looking forward to everybody reaching that, 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.420 optimal piece of being like, yeah, we've got 00:27:43.420 --> 00:27:47.200 this. Right. Because Jesus got us. Yeah. So, 00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:50.660 yeah. For sure. I like the, I like the hope in 00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:53.680 action piece because I think that it gives us 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.480 something to do. That it's not just something 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.640 that kind of happens to us or, but it's, we can 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.720 work towards it. And I just think the more that 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:08.720 we are involved in, in, kind of growing our own 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.220 hope, which is infectious, I think. It just, 00:28:12.339 --> 00:28:14.460 you know, when we're working on that, then I 00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:17.519 think other people around us become more hopeful. 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.440 I'm just thinking that hope meter on the bottom 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.920 of the screen that just, you know, as we work 00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:28.519 towards, actively work towards growing our hope, 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:30.559 you know, and that meter is getting higher and 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.069 higher and higher when we do take a hit. Right. 00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:37.769 And and and the hope goes goes low or lower. 00:28:37.890 --> 00:28:40.430 I mean, if we've been working towards that, actively 00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:42.609 working to building that, then we can take a 00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:45.690 hit and it's not as big a deal. But if we haven't 00:28:45.690 --> 00:28:47.970 been actively if we haven't we haven't been working 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:50.390 on hope in action, then then our health, our 00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:53.710 hope meter is low and that hit can be much more 00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:56.170 devastating. Sure. Right. Sure. I like that. 00:28:56.190 --> 00:28:59.990 I like the concept of of act, you know, hope 00:28:59.990 --> 00:29:04.349 in action and like hope in action. Like as in 00:29:04.349 --> 00:29:06.769 we have a calling, we have a thing to do and 00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:10.450 it doesn't depend on us. Right. But like my hope 00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:12.970 is ultimately in what Jesus is doing in the world. 00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:15.269 So I get to participate in that. And that gives 00:29:15.269 --> 00:29:18.569 me things to do to like build up my hope muscle 00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:21.349 or my hope meter. Yeah. But it doesn't depend 00:29:21.349 --> 00:29:23.670 on me. We are not the fuel in the tank. Yeah. 00:29:23.710 --> 00:29:26.549 We can help to put the fuel in the tank. Yes. 00:29:26.849 --> 00:29:31.940 Yeah. So I want to end with another verse from 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:33.640 Romans. We spent a lot of time chatting about 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.880 Romans. Romans is a good book for hope. It's 00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:40.019 a good book. Yeah. And so this is just a blessing 00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:42.660 that Paul says to the church in Rome that I want 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.559 to sort of leave us with. So it says this. May 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.880 the God of all hope fill you with all joy and 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.700 peace as you trust in him so that you may overflow 00:29:53.700 --> 00:30:00.319 with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Overflow. 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.900 Overflow with hope. Like that. By the power of 00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:05.380 the Holy Spirit. Yeah. God's doing a thing. Look 00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:08.920 at that. And it's good. Amen. Yeah. Your hope 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:13.119 buyer is 150%. Yeah. This is pretty good. Thank 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.299 you so much, folks. And thank you for tuning 00:30:16.299 --> 00:30:19.960 in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. Yeah. 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:23.420 I pray that you are filled with hope by the power 00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:25.640 of the Holy Spirit this week. Whether that makes 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:28.220 sense in your circumstances or not, I just pray 00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:30.559 that you would find that sense of hope and that 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.440 that hope would be infectious to the folks around 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.400 you. Amen. And we will see you again next week.