WEBVTT 00:00:02.719 --> 00:00:05.019 Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this week's 00:00:05.019 --> 00:00:07.519 episode of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:09.660 this week I have a very special guest with me, 00:00:09.699 --> 00:00:13.539 Bishop Andrew Asbell, who is the Diascus and 00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:16.839 Bishop for the Diocese of Toronto. And yeah, 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:18.739 we're just going to chat a little bit about what 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.460 your job looks like, what it means to be Anglican 00:00:21.460 --> 00:00:24.500 in Toronto. whatever else comes up, I guess. 00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:26.940 Wonderful. Looking very much forward to it. And 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:29.539 thank you for having me. Yeah. So maybe you can 00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:32.920 just start by introducing yourself a little bit 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:35.320 and just telling us, you know, what led to you 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.399 pursuing ordained ministry to being a bishop? 00:00:38.659 --> 00:00:43.159 Well, thank you. It is a long. A lifelong process, 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.520 I think. For sure. You know, I was born and raised 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:49.799 in a family where my father was a priest. And 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:53.100 eventually he would become the Bishop of Niagara. 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:55.460 So there was a time in my life where, in fact, 00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:57.920 he was my father and my boss at the same time. 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:02.320 Okay, yes. But I, as I said in my sermon earlier, 00:01:02.539 --> 00:01:06.200 I was a Sunday school dropout, not because Sunday 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.060 school was not boring, but because I needed something 00:01:09.060 --> 00:01:12.040 a little bit more and liturgy. came that place 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:16.079 where I found a full expression and a sense of 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:20.079 being at home and really wrestled with the idea 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.780 that God might be calling me to ordain ministry. 00:01:22.939 --> 00:01:26.420 It was something that I kind of put on the back 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:29.920 burner when I became a teenager, like most teenagers. 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.239 It didn't seem like a cool idea to me at the 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:36.719 time. Sure. And it wasn't until partway through 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.480 my undergraduate degree when I was at the University 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.819 of Waterloo when I realized that science, which 00:01:42.819 --> 00:01:46.019 was the course that I was taking at the time, 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:49.859 while interesting, was not my passion. And I 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:53.859 slowly but surely started to get a sense that 00:01:53.859 --> 00:01:57.159 God was calling me to ordain ministry. And I 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.040 started reaching out to people in my family and 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.340 those who knew me well, one of whom was my father, 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.480 who, when I came home after a Christmas break, 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:08.900 said, you know, Dad, I'm thinking about ordained 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:12.199 ministry. And he said. I wanted to talk to you 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:13.900 about that before you went back to school. I 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:16.879 believe you have a vocation. Okay. And that led 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:21.199 the long journey to trying seminary. And I made 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:23.599 the promise that I would try every year. And 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.759 year after year, it just felt much more at home 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:30.560 than I was. in the right place at the right time. 00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:35.659 Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder, so my dad is 00:02:35.659 --> 00:02:38.699 also a pastor and wondering, like, how does that 00:02:38.699 --> 00:02:41.300 sort of play into your sense of call to ministry? 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:43.020 Because I know there's probably positives and 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:45.919 negatives there. Yeah, I think it's by, you know, 00:02:45.979 --> 00:02:49.719 you tend to soak up so much of what the faith 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:52.680 is about, but almost by osmosis because you're 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.539 constantly in it. There are very few places in 00:02:56.539 --> 00:02:59.539 the world where a pastor brings their children 00:02:59.539 --> 00:03:03.300 to work. Yep. Right. And so you're, you're in 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:06.979 it all the time. And, and I think just watching, 00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:10.280 listening, paying attention to how my father 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.159 interacted in his ministry became just like wearing 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.099 another part of my skin that was just very, very 00:03:18.099 --> 00:03:22.939 much at home. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. So. 00:03:24.689 --> 00:03:27.889 You sort of how does the transition work from, 00:03:27.930 --> 00:03:29.990 OK, I'm pursuing this sort of called ordained 00:03:29.990 --> 00:03:32.729 ministry to becoming a priest, to becoming a 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:34.490 bishop at some point. Like, what did that journey 00:03:34.490 --> 00:03:37.469 look like? You know, I went through the process 00:03:37.469 --> 00:03:40.129 with the diocese of Niagara and felt the call 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:43.210 to being ordained a deacon first, which is part 00:03:43.210 --> 00:03:46.590 of our of our system of ordination, a transitional 00:03:46.590 --> 00:03:51.300 diaconate. And then so was. Deaconed in 1988, 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.099 a whole long time ago, and then priesthood in 00:03:54.099 --> 00:03:59.240 1989. And I served in a parish in Guelph, St. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.979 George's, as an assistant curate. And then I 00:04:01.979 --> 00:04:05.740 had my first solo flight. as a pastor or priest 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:09.520 in a small town called Acton. Okay, yes. And 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:12.939 there at St. Albans, started my first chapter 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:16.939 of doing that on my own. Okay. And then I progressed 00:04:16.939 --> 00:04:20.040 from there to a new church plant in Oakville, 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.439 where we met in a high school cafeteria and went 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:24.220 through the process of building a new building. 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.300 Okay. And then moved to the Diocese of Toronto 00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:29.560 and became the incumbent at Church of the Redeemer 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:31.779 downtown. Okay. Corner of Avenue Road and Blue 00:04:31.779 --> 00:04:36.540 Street. Served there for 15 years and then served 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:39.540 as the dean of the diocese and the rector of 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:43.120 St. James Cathedral right downtown for a couple 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.720 of years and then was elected as the diocesan. 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.319 Okay. In 2018. In 2018. Okay. So you've been 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.579 doing this about seven or so years now. I've 00:04:52.579 --> 00:04:54.779 just turned into my eighth year. Okay. Yeah. 00:04:54.939 --> 00:04:57.379 So what does that look like? What does a bishop 00:04:57.379 --> 00:05:00.100 do? Well, you know, the bishop is the symbol 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:06.639 of unity, is the symbol of the lead pastor, the 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.639 shepherd of the sheep and the flock of the diocese. 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.600 We have 200 congregations. We have a whole host 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:15.939 of other missions. We have chaplaincies and schools 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:19.319 and hospitals. And so my role working with the 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.360 other two suffragan bishops is really to nurture 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.000 a sense of being one together as community, of 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.980 tying together this very, very unique community 00:05:29.980 --> 00:05:33.980 of Anglican churches, you know, both small and 00:05:33.980 --> 00:05:37.560 large in rural areas as well as right downtown. 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:42.060 Working very closely with our clergy, we have 00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:46.160 about 250 very active clergy and probably another 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.899 100 to 150 retired or those working part -time. 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.800 And so it really is about gathering the whole 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.000 community and being faithful together. Okay. 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.759 And what does that look like? In a week of a 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:03.620 bishop or in the month of a bishop, what does 00:06:03.620 --> 00:06:05.540 that look like? Well, that's a very good question. 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:08.699 It's a whole new adventure every single day. 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:12.319 Sure. In my experience. Every Sunday, my wife 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:14.819 Mary and I hit the road and we go out to another 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:19.500 parish. This today is Trinity Streetsville. And 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.740 so the car points in different directions. And 00:06:22.740 --> 00:06:27.040 that is, for me, the wonderful part of the week. 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.500 When the gathered people of God come and we worship 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:35.360 together. And through the week, I'm often in 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.860 places where I'm visiting other parishes, where 00:06:38.860 --> 00:06:41.379 they're going through development changes or 00:06:41.379 --> 00:06:44.740 they're in the midst of conflict. I meet a lot 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:47.540 with... staff at 135 Adelaide, which is our head 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:50.079 office. The directors and I spend a lot of time 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.959 together overseeing the work of the diocese itself. 00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:59.100 I do some teaching and Bible studies, take services 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:04.699 during the week, and I'm present within the diocese, 00:07:04.699 --> 00:07:07.980 but also beyond. So I've served on different 00:07:07.980 --> 00:07:10.540 boards and committees for the Episcopal Church. 00:07:11.209 --> 00:07:15.790 as well as in the UK. Because we're part of an 00:07:15.790 --> 00:07:18.209 Anglican communion, it's not just resting in 00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:23.069 Canada, it's much beyond. Sure, sure. Yeah. And 00:07:23.069 --> 00:07:26.870 for you, I mean, you grew up in the Anglican 00:07:26.870 --> 00:07:29.850 church. Was there any point where you felt like 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.790 there was a decision to stay in the Anglican 00:07:32.790 --> 00:07:35.350 church? Like, what is it about Anglicanism that 00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:40.579 sort of is... Draws you in. I love the Anglican 00:07:40.579 --> 00:07:43.899 tradition because it provides so much room. You 00:07:43.899 --> 00:07:47.819 know, I've never, ever contemplated leaving the 00:07:47.819 --> 00:07:51.060 Anglican tradition. It very much is home for 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:55.980 me. And I think a community that can embrace 00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:59.600 the diversity of theological interpretation, 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.680 of expression of liturgy from high angle Catholic 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:08.829 to low evangelical. that can span the expanse 00:08:08.829 --> 00:08:11.629 of different languages, different cultures, different 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:16.269 settings. And when we get into places where there 00:08:16.269 --> 00:08:19.290 are differences of opinion, differences of interpretation, 00:08:19.610 --> 00:08:24.069 there's a real sense that the first, the default 00:08:24.069 --> 00:08:28.350 is always that we walk together. We are in this 00:08:28.350 --> 00:08:32.289 together. And so division is not something that 00:08:32.289 --> 00:08:36.320 we take. We take it very seriously and we try 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.399 desperately to, to avoid that ever happening. 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.659 Sure. And, and so that's, I think for me, that's 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:45.159 the merit of the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:47.399 for sure. I think that's something that, so I 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.740 didn't grow up in, in Anglican context, but I 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:51.559 think that's something that also has sort of 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:54.500 drawn me in this direction, right? That I'm looking 00:08:54.500 --> 00:08:57.620 for a church that focus, that puts the first 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:00.679 things first. Correct. And that lets us then. 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.139 Express that in a variety of ways, but do it 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:08.519 recognizing we're all family, even if we have 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.120 our familial challenges. Exactly, like a real 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:14.919 family. I mean, there is not a family that I 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.419 can think of that doesn't have conflict and doesn't 00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:21.419 have separation. And when there is time of separation, 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.159 there's always, always, always the want and the 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.659 desire for reconciliation. That's who we are. 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:32.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So what do 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:35.500 you find like most exciting or most rewarding 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:38.779 about the work that you do? Sunday mornings. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:43.519 Sunday mornings is the cherry on top. You know, 00:09:43.539 --> 00:09:48.620 it is what gives me breath and life to face another 00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:51.669 week. When the when the gathered community is 00:09:51.669 --> 00:09:55.529 together, I think watching communities grow both 00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:59.250 in in numbers, but also in depth of spirit and 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:03.629 an expression of their faith is is something 00:10:03.629 --> 00:10:05.990 that gets me up in the morning every morning. 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:08.379 knowing that we're making a difference in the 00:10:08.379 --> 00:10:10.820 world. And it doesn't matter if you're in a large 00:10:10.820 --> 00:10:13.720 parish downtown or in the suburbs or you're in 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:17.039 a tiny little parish in the rural areas where 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.039 only 10 or 12 people come. There's a real sense 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.080 of identity and a real sense of purpose and meaning 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.799 for those communities. That gets me up in the 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.860 morning. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Is there a 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:33.419 particular... aspect of like the Sunday morning 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:37.259 experience that like is sort of most captivating 00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:39.919 for you? I think being with the community itself 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.639 and walking alongside, paying very close attention 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.019 to who the community is and how they express 00:10:48.019 --> 00:10:51.919 their faith. Sure. Listening. Yeah. I love listening 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:56.000 to the stories of why people come, what sustains 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.940 them, what keeps them coming back. Sure. I think 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:02.309 are the stories that keep me Really enthralled. 00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:05.370 Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so while you're here 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.289 on Sunday morning, you're going to be doing some 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:10.509 confirmation, reaffirmation, reception. Is that 00:11:10.509 --> 00:11:13.950 something that you do most weeks or not necessarily? 00:11:14.230 --> 00:11:18.190 Not necessarily. So as the diocesan bishop, I 00:11:18.190 --> 00:11:21.149 have a particular area of the Central Arch Deaconry 00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:23.330 that I spend a lot of time in. And those are 00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:26.049 often the places where I do confirmations and 00:11:26.049 --> 00:11:29.169 reaffirmations. And because I have oversight 00:11:29.169 --> 00:11:34.690 of the whole diocese, Our goal is to get into 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:40.570 every single parish before I retire and to worship 00:11:40.570 --> 00:11:43.350 with every community at least once. So we've 00:11:43.350 --> 00:11:47.159 been in probably 150 different. congregations 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:49.240 over the last seven years. And how many are in 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.460 the diocese? 200. Okay. Okay. So you're getting 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:53.519 there. They're getting there. Um, and so if we 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.940 can do that at least twice would be absolutely 00:11:55.940 --> 00:11:59.500 a blessing. Um, doing confirmations, reaffirmations 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.320 are a real joy too, because you, you are, are 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.700 with young people and, uh, middle -aged folk 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:09.799 and sometimes seniors who are making this declaration 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:14.379 that's public, uh, that I find really humbling 00:12:14.379 --> 00:12:17.710 and beautiful. Because the whole community gets 00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:21.049 to be a part of that with them. Yeah. And none 00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:23.529 of us walk by faith on our own. For sure. You 00:12:23.529 --> 00:12:25.889 need the community to do that with you. Yeah. 00:12:26.009 --> 00:12:29.909 Yeah. So when you think about this process of 00:12:29.909 --> 00:12:31.990 confirmation and reaffirmation and that sort 00:12:31.990 --> 00:12:37.350 of thing, what do you see that as doing or being, 00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:41.690 I guess? I think it's one of those moments in 00:12:41.690 --> 00:12:47.139 a person's life where they feel, a need to publicly 00:12:47.139 --> 00:12:51.940 declare. And I know in some cases for younger 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:55.679 people, especially, it's often a moment when 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:57.580 a family says it's time for you to get confirmed. 00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:00.840 Right. Sure. And some of those who come into 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.360 confirmation classes do so pretty reluctantly. 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:08.500 Sure. And it's often after and way later. I hear 00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:10.980 back from folks like that who were reluctant, 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:14.830 who said, I had no idea at the time. Yeah. what 00:13:14.830 --> 00:13:18.090 was really happening under the surface. But very 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:21.250 glad that my grandmother or my mother or my father 00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:25.610 said it's time for confirmation. And a real sense 00:13:25.610 --> 00:13:28.610 that God was working through them in a new way 00:13:28.610 --> 00:13:33.220 that they had not really thought of before. And 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:36.360 one of the beautiful attributes of our tradition 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.779 is that you are confirmed once, but you can reaffirm 00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:43.980 a whole host of times. And so there are moments 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.139 in our lives when we go through major transitions 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:49.580 and we say, here's an opportunity for me to be 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:52.500 able to declare that God has really helped me 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:56.059 through this moment. Right. And I want my family 00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:59.340 to know about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:02.679 the way that like God. God works in those ways 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.340 that like are almost a surprise to us. They shouldn't 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:07.740 be a surprise that this is how God works. But 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:10.639 like in those moments, it's like, whoa, God shows 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:14.399 up again. God is faithful again. Always. And, 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.259 you know, in the reading today, one of the beautiful 00:14:17.259 --> 00:14:21.779 aspects of Luke, when Luke says, you know, if 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.120 you're living a generous life, if you're living 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.820 a life. where you're dressed and ready for action, 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.519 your, your lamp is burning with, with a passion 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.240 for the good news. Jesus will show up and serve 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.980 you. Yeah. You know, you are, you are served 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:40.840 at the same time that you are serving. We actually 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.559 don't, we don't recognize that sometimes. Yeah. 00:14:44.659 --> 00:14:47.299 It's often after the fact that we realize, Oh, 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:52.259 that's how this works. Yeah. Yes. It's, it's 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.970 definitely that. Continuous process of re -encountering 00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:58.769 Christ. Absolutely. In these big moments, in 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:00.470 confirmation and that sort of thing, but also 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:03.309 just like in the weekly practice of receiving 00:15:03.309 --> 00:15:06.809 Eucharist, in the daily practice of prayer, of 00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:09.769 showing up. Exactly. Re -encountering Christ. 00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:14.629 Indeed. Yeah. So cool. So when you think about 00:15:14.629 --> 00:15:18.649 all of this work that you do, are there moments 00:15:18.649 --> 00:15:23.159 that are particularly challenging for you? Yeah, 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:27.960 I think that conflict is always a part of the 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.779 journey. Sure. And that's a big part of my work, 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:37.120 is helping congregations, helping leaders. work 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.279 through their conflicts. And it's probably the 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.840 hardest thing that I do and probably the best 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.639 thing that I do. Because if I can stand in the 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.519 breach with the community, with the person and 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:55.320 know that I'm there, you're here, we are in this 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:59.179 together, holy things happen. They always do. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:03.200 And sometimes you don't know the fruits of that 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.860 moment until way after. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.840 I think about that. As you said, conflict is 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:15.059 always hard. But I think the value of having 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:20.730 a wise leader and someone who, I mean. You're 00:16:20.730 --> 00:16:23.970 part of it by virtue of being part of this diocese, 00:16:23.970 --> 00:16:26.809 but sometimes a little bit external to the particular 00:16:26.809 --> 00:16:30.149 parish. Correct. Right? Like that I think is 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:33.029 super helpful in this moment. Exactly right. 00:16:33.149 --> 00:16:36.909 And as a bishop, you have the responsibility 00:16:36.909 --> 00:16:39.330 of being present. You have the responsibility 00:16:39.330 --> 00:16:44.429 of showing up. And to be in a space where you 00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:48.250 know people are vulnerable and that hurt has 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:52.269 been experienced. And and they're stuck. They 00:16:52.269 --> 00:16:55.850 don't necessarily have a way through. And so 00:16:55.850 --> 00:16:59.129 my a big part of my call is is helping that happen. 00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:02.649 Help to find that avenue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:06.430 sure. For sure. So when you think about your 00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.470 work in the last little while, where's a moment 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:11.930 where you've seen God show up? Oh, my goodness. 00:17:13.670 --> 00:17:18.460 First of all, I would say. I was a bishop for 00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:20.920 about a year and then COVID happened. Right. 00:17:21.220 --> 00:17:26.099 And I would say that especially through that 00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:29.680 COVID moment, what I experienced as a bishop 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:35.460 was grace upon grace upon grace of moments when 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.819 God showed up in a time when we did not know 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:43.519 what we were doing. Yep. And going online like 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:47.700 we are now. Yeah. And watching clergy take the 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:51.660 risk of having podcasts and doing live broadcasts 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:56.000 and learning how to be vulnerable in a time when 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.819 we did not know what the future was going to 00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:01.759 hold. Sure. I think that experience for me set 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.599 me on a different trajectory as bishop to say, 00:18:05.619 --> 00:18:08.640 we got to try everything. We've got to be present 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.910 in every way that we possibly can. And and those 00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:15.529 who when I watch congregations large and small 00:18:15.529 --> 00:18:20.549 take those of those risks. Yeah. Jesus is always 00:18:20.549 --> 00:18:25.670 present. Yes. Always. Always. And and I I'm always 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:27.730 moved by those simple gestures. When I think 00:18:27.730 --> 00:18:32.299 of St. George Grafton, a tiny little town. And 00:18:32.299 --> 00:18:35.599 most of the community members are north of 75 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.940 years old. And they really wanted to be a part 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.660 of a wider community event and ministry. And 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.099 so they joined Habitat for Humanity to build 00:18:46.099 --> 00:18:49.460 housing for those who could not afford. And they 00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:52.960 knew that they couldn't climb ladders. Yeah. 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.400 But they chose, in fact, because they know hospitality. 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:01.569 Right. They provided meals for 16 build days. 00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:06.769 Okay. And they understand that that is what they 00:19:06.769 --> 00:19:09.549 are called to do. They are Mary and Martha in 00:19:09.549 --> 00:19:12.829 that moment. Serving the needs of those who are 00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:16.309 providing housing and shelter for the most vulnerable. 00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:19.789 Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, to 00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:23.200 think about these. 200 churches that are all 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:28.539 in 200 or more different places. Yeah, just doing 00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:31.660 the work that God is calling them to do in that. 00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:34.799 Place and space and moment. Incarnational. Yeah. 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.460 You know, and it's true. And we don't really 00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:41.039 sit down very often as Anglican churches and 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.640 count all of the points where ministry is happening. 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.380 Sure. In some ways, I'd love for us to do that 00:19:47.380 --> 00:19:49.380 at some point. Sure. Just to say, how have you 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.400 been influenced or changed somebody's life this 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.519 week? Yeah. We are very bashful, I think, about 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.799 telling the good story. And we need to be more 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.000 in practice of what that means. Sure. to be able 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.119 to share that good news to say, let me tell you 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.440 what happened for me this week. Right. Yeah. 00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:09.720 Yeah. And I think it's, you get a particularly 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.680 good like lens on that, right? Because you get 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.619 to go around and see all of these different churches. 00:20:14.660 --> 00:20:18.420 I think it's really easy for us at Trinity or 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:20.599 at any local church to sort of think, okay, this 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:23.000 is the stuff that we do in Streetsville in this 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.809 place at this time. And we forget. that we're 00:20:25.809 --> 00:20:29.210 connected to this whole family of people. Well, 00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:31.170 and that was one of the great gifts in COVID. 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.380 You know, if you were just a congregational community, 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:38.599 you have only yourself to rely on. As a diocesan 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:42.019 community of 200 congregations, we could hunker 00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:44.880 down together and start learning from each other 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.539 in a completely different way. And for the longest 00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:49.960 time, a lot of Anglican churches have been, you 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.380 know, falsely had a sense that we were competing 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:54.960 against each other. We were doing our thing. 00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:58.279 You do your thing. But now I think there's a 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:02.019 change in the diocese where I think more congregations 00:21:02.019 --> 00:21:04.259 and leaders say, we need to help each other. 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.720 Sure. To learn how to be present in a changing 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.640 world. You know, the fastest growing demographic 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.839 are those who have no connection with any religious 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:20.460 organization. And that's the mission field for 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:28.039 all of us. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. future of the 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:29.480 Diocese of Toronto looks like? We don't have 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:31.779 a crystal ball to say this is exactly what it 00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:33.700 is, but where are you hoping that we're moving 00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:38.660 towards? Well, I often use the expression, for 00:21:38.660 --> 00:21:41.700 those who will listen, that we are operating 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:46.059 on a two and 300 year plan. Businesses tend to 00:21:46.059 --> 00:21:49.180 look at five and 10 year cycles. And for us to 00:21:49.180 --> 00:21:53.279 be able to say, We are a faithful community. 00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:58.880 In our liturgy, we say Christ is risen, Christ 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.839 has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:05.900 Our pledge is to be present when Christ comes 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:09.920 again. It might take 100 years, 200 years, 300 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:16.079 years more. And so for me, the future for the 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.720 Diocese of Toronto is to set that horizon as 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.420 high as we can to say, how do we meet 200 years 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.779 from now? That's going to be influenced by the 00:22:25.779 --> 00:22:28.039 decisions and the ministry that we do today. 00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:32.319 And I think the season of spiritual renewal, 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.859 which we've just come through as a diocese, sets 00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:38.859 us on a wonderful course to be able to say, we 00:22:38.859 --> 00:22:41.380 know that the first things are the first things, 00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:47.140 which is discipleship and evangelism. And we 00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:50.359 are embarking on that. And in a whole new way, 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:54.400 I find now Anglicans are much less bashful than 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.039 they used to be in being able to say, I have 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:03.460 a good story to tell. So I see a wonderful future 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:05.599 for the Diocese of Toronto. I see a much more 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.200 diverse Diocese of Toronto as the face of immigration 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.720 changes in the greater Toronto area. I see a 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.900 depth of different languages being spoken. We 00:23:16.900 --> 00:23:19.480 have at least 12 different languages now being 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.519 spoken on Sunday mornings in parishes across 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:26.019 Toronto. And I see more of that. Yeah, yeah, 00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:30.660 yeah. Very cool. setting a 300 year horizon and, 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.799 and saying our goal is to like meet Jesus there. 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.680 Like, obviously a 300 year horizon is not when 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:40.259 I personally will be there to meet Jesus, but 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:42.700 to think about how do I set up this community? 00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:47.569 Well, so that 300 years from now. Someone can 00:23:47.569 --> 00:23:50.869 be sitting here experiencing Christ. Well, and 00:23:50.869 --> 00:23:54.670 somebody came to faith because you said something. 00:23:54.849 --> 00:23:58.150 Yeah. And then they say something and then they 00:23:58.150 --> 00:24:00.710 say something and then they say something. Yeah. 00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:03.829 And that is how the Christian community and gospel 00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:06.930 is spread person to person. Yeah. And so it's 00:24:06.930 --> 00:24:09.170 in the intimate as well as in the communal that 00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:13.829 we do that work. And it takes me and it takes 00:24:13.829 --> 00:24:17.180 you in the present to say, I want to see that 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:20.480 church 300 years from now. Yeah. So I have work 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.880 to do. Yeah. Lots of work. Exactly. Lots of really 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.039 good work. Keep your lamps burning. Yeah. You 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.700 know, be dressed and ready for action, as the 00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:31.920 gospel says this morning. For sure. Yeah. So 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.880 we spend quite a bit of time here talking about. 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:37.460 Bishop Andrew and the work that you do. So when 00:24:37.460 --> 00:24:39.799 you're not busy being a bishop, what does life 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:42.779 look like for you? Well, it's a busy life. Mary 00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:46.019 and I, my wife Mary and I have five children, 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.660 two boys and three girls. And we try and spend 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:53.059 as much time as we can with them. They range 00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:56.839 in age from 21 to 28. Okay. They're very, very 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.200 active people. And so when we get a chance to 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:02.920 be in their presence, it's just wonderful. Sure. 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.420 And besides that, we love to travel together. 00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:11.500 We love doing home renovations, hanging out with 00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:15.220 friends. listening to live music okay uh we we 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:17.900 try and spend every ounce of our time together 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:22.140 okay oh that's beautiful so any current renovations 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:26.180 on the go uh well i i've uh just finished doing 00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:29.180 some roofing in the summer and some uh some painting 00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:32.059 of the of the sea house uh as well in the summertime 00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:36.309 And we have a property up in Bala, which is in 00:25:36.309 --> 00:25:41.710 Muskoka. Okay. And I have some new wood floors 00:25:41.710 --> 00:25:44.369 to put down at some point. Ah, okay. We're getting 00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:46.170 brand new flooring here at Trinity as well. I 00:25:46.170 --> 00:25:48.230 heard that. Yes. Yeah, pretty impressive. Maybe 00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:49.730 we should invite you to come on over and help 00:25:49.730 --> 00:25:52.930 them out. I can help. I'm pretty good with a 00:25:52.930 --> 00:25:55.750 sander. Okay. Well, there we go. Yeah, very good. 00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:58.089 Well, thank you so much, Bishop Andrew. This 00:25:58.089 --> 00:26:00.930 has been a delight to get to hear a little more 00:26:00.930 --> 00:26:04.440 from you. But also, I think, To hear your heart 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.359 for this work and your heart for this diocese 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.200 and the churches. Yeah, it's so encouraging to 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.480 know that we have a leader who is leading with 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.480 love and compassion and with this desire to sort 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.109 of see us all come together now. 300 years from 00:26:22.109 --> 00:26:24.349 now. Thank you. And I really appreciate your 00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:27.410 ministry and what you do here at Trinity Streetsville. 00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:30.789 And you do it so beautifully, very warm and engaging. 00:26:31.349 --> 00:26:34.170 And thank you for the opportunity of having this 00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:36.849 conversation. Yeah, you're very welcome. Yeah, 00:26:36.930 --> 00:26:40.130 you as well. And thank you for tuning in to this 00:26:40.130 --> 00:26:42.289 week's episode of Trinity Talks. I hope that 00:26:42.289 --> 00:26:44.130 as you've been listening to this conversation, 00:26:44.329 --> 00:26:47.049 whether you are part of our diocese or not, that 00:26:47.049 --> 00:26:49.509 you have been able to sort of picture yourself 00:26:49.509 --> 00:26:52.500 as part of. God's kingdom, as part of this global 00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:55.839 church family that's moving here and into the 00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.099 future together. And we will see you again next 00:26:58.099 --> 00:26:58.279 week.