WEBVTT 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:06.019 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.019 --> 00:00:09.000 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and this week 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.119 I'm sitting down with a very familiar face, Rob 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:14.800 Herkmans, our rector here at Trinity Streetsville, 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.660 and a less familiar face, Beth Benson. And we're 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:22.019 going to chat a little bit about clergy coaching, 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:25.039 which is something that I'm willing to bet not 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:29.170 a lot of people have heard about. But Rob, you 00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:31.929 have called it your secret weapon. Beth is my 00:00:31.929 --> 00:00:34.810 secret weapon. OK. Yes. And that is I'm actually 00:00:34.810 --> 00:00:37.049 so pleased to finally get the chance to introduce 00:00:37.049 --> 00:00:40.750 the people of Trinity to Beth, because actually 00:00:40.750 --> 00:00:44.829 Beth has played a huge role in the life of this 00:00:44.829 --> 00:00:48.189 place in kind of guiding me that that I don't 00:00:48.189 --> 00:00:52.890 think people. fully um realize it yeah yeah so 00:00:52.890 --> 00:00:54.789 Beth do you want to introduce yourself tell us 00:00:54.789 --> 00:00:56.750 a little bit about who you are and what led you 00:00:56.750 --> 00:01:00.590 into this work of clergy coaching clergy coaching 00:01:00.590 --> 00:01:04.049 Kyla great to meet you as well so clergy coaching 00:01:04.049 --> 00:01:07.030 is is a real passion of mine and I think it actually 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:11.219 became more clear to me in my practice of parish 00:01:11.219 --> 00:01:15.980 leadership. I finally kind of retired about four 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:18.840 years ago from full -time parish ministry. But 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.879 each of my parishes that I was involved in, my 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:26.379 greatest joy often came in relationships with 00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:29.739 divinity students, with the newly ordained, with 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:32.140 curates, and those who were discerning calls 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:36.000 to ministry right in the congregation. And over 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.980 time, as the Lord usually works, I came to see 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:41.480 that this was something that coming alongside 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.959 people who were discerning vocational call and 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:45.840 leadership is something that gives me great joy. 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:48.760 And so in the last four years since my retirement 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:52.920 from first full time ministry in 19 or in 2021, 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:55.819 Bishop Jenny Anderson then asked me to think 00:01:55.819 --> 00:01:58.140 about whether I would like to join the diocesan 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.019 clergy coaching program. And after some prayer 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:03.980 and discussion with folks, I did some training 00:02:03.980 --> 00:02:08.960 out of California and began. coaching. And it's 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.340 a wonderful, life -giving, faith -deepening ministry 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:16.539 for me, Kyla. But I wanted to share that it really 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:19.599 came to me out of the practice of parish ministry 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:23.319 myself as a leader. Right, yeah. So feeling sort 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.419 of grounded in your own leadership, but then 00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:27.199 recognizing, you know, the things that God... 00:02:27.370 --> 00:02:29.750 has given you a passion for, right? Yeah, exactly. 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:32.550 And one of those things is the big view of the 00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:35.930 church and the opportunity over and over with 00:02:35.930 --> 00:02:37.909 gifted leaders like Rob of getting up on the 00:02:37.909 --> 00:02:40.009 balcony, so to speak, and looking at the big 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:42.150 view, the big picture, and really discerning 00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:45.090 together what God is up to in our midst. And 00:02:45.090 --> 00:02:47.289 really appreciating that the diocese has made 00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:50.650 this a big priority. So it's guided and inspired 00:02:50.650 --> 00:02:54.090 by our bishops and funded by the diocese. So 00:02:54.090 --> 00:02:56.750 I think we're in a new era, to be honest, this 00:02:56.750 --> 00:02:59.430 sort of renewal and spiritual restoration and 00:02:59.430 --> 00:03:02.370 refreshment of the church comes alongside recognizing 00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:06.729 that developing gifted leadership is a real part 00:03:06.729 --> 00:03:08.870 of what God is up to. And I'm just so thrilled 00:03:08.870 --> 00:03:13.030 to be part of it. Yeah, yeah, very cool. So what 00:03:13.030 --> 00:03:15.949 is clergy coaching? Like, what does that look 00:03:15.949 --> 00:03:17.770 like? What is your role? Yeah, I mean, there 00:03:17.770 --> 00:03:20.009 are lots of things that both Rob and I could 00:03:20.009 --> 00:03:22.530 say about that. But what I wanted to start off 00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:25.729 with, at least, is that Clergy coaching is about 00:03:25.729 --> 00:03:30.090 a relationship grounded in trust. It's grounded 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:33.969 in two disciples of our Lord and Savior who are 00:03:33.969 --> 00:03:37.569 on a journey into the deeper heart of God individually 00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:40.830 and then together. And so clergy coaching is 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:45.400 a journey alongside. a parish leader who is a 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.539 lifelong learner, someone who has gifts of skill 00:03:49.539 --> 00:03:52.719 and character for ministry, and someone who has 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.580 the strength to say, I want to go deeper. And 00:03:55.580 --> 00:03:58.879 I want to have the opportunity for one -on -one. 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:02.599 discussion and prayer to help me do that. So 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.319 that's kind of the 30 ,000 foot view of it, Carla. 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.159 And then within that, there are many, many more 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.300 details around developing and discerning shared 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:13.780 learning goals together. And then the role of 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:16.480 the coach, particularly in my case, is to be 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:20.759 an attentive listener and to be sometimes a corrective 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:25.019 voice, a challenging voice, but to resist the 00:04:25.019 --> 00:04:28.579 temptation to get into the real day -to -day. 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:32.740 leadership ministry. So I like to remind myself 00:04:32.740 --> 00:04:36.889 that my role as a coach is again... 30 ,000 foot 00:04:36.889 --> 00:04:40.790 prayerfully coming alongside parish leadership 00:04:40.790 --> 00:04:44.810 and asking what I hope are wise and spiritual, 00:04:44.930 --> 00:04:48.189 sometimes provocative questions, but that are 00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:51.410 all leading to the development of gifted leaders. 00:04:51.649 --> 00:04:54.649 Right. So maybe not so much in the like, Hey 00:04:54.649 --> 00:04:56.889 Rob, here's how you should run this staff meeting, 00:04:56.970 --> 00:05:00.129 but more in the like, Hey Rob, how, what, what's 00:05:00.129 --> 00:05:02.649 your vision? Where, where are we headed? How 00:05:02.649 --> 00:05:05.209 do we sort of discern where God is leading us? 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:08.009 Big picture. That's a great summary, Kyla. And, 00:05:08.029 --> 00:05:11.050 you know, and in that space to say, what is it 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:13.790 that's bringing you joy, Rob? Right. And where 00:05:13.790 --> 00:05:16.189 do you see this in two years? Where do you see 00:05:16.189 --> 00:05:18.430 it in three years? Right. And how are you taking 00:05:18.430 --> 00:05:20.370 care of yourself along the way? Right. That's 00:05:20.370 --> 00:05:22.670 also a really important part of coaching. But 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:24.889 I should say that actually, if I did ask Beth. 00:05:25.290 --> 00:05:27.990 Beth, how should I run this meeting? Yes. She 00:05:27.990 --> 00:05:29.829 would have something to say about that, too. 00:05:29.910 --> 00:05:32.930 Like, I think that there are times I think when 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:35.449 we do maybe dive down into things that are a 00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:38.490 little bit more nitty gritty, which, you know, 00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:41.529 Beth brings all this great experience and expertise 00:05:41.529 --> 00:05:44.550 with her that I want to learn from her on those 00:05:44.550 --> 00:05:47.550 things, too. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So 00:05:47.550 --> 00:05:49.769 would you have anything to add to that? Like 00:05:49.769 --> 00:05:51.649 when you think about like what the clergy coaching 00:05:51.649 --> 00:05:53.850 relationship is like for you, like how would 00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:56.829 you describe it? Yeah, I mean, first of all, 00:05:56.850 --> 00:05:58.850 I think that people who are watching who've just 00:05:58.850 --> 00:06:01.389 been listening to Beth speak, you probably already 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:06.329 have a sense of the kind of just pastoral heart 00:06:06.329 --> 00:06:11.389 that she brings to this. And that is, I suppose, 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:15.170 I'm guessing it's important to find a good fit 00:06:15.170 --> 00:06:18.490 between a coach and the clergy person that's 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:23.370 being coached. For sure. So I... Yeah, I just 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:25.790 feel like by God's grace, it's been a wonderful 00:06:25.790 --> 00:06:28.389 fit. I think that Beth and I have some things 00:06:28.389 --> 00:06:30.370 in common. We even went to Wycliffe. We were 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:33.410 at seminary for the same period of time, at least 00:06:33.410 --> 00:06:35.410 we overlapped at seminary. So we do have some 00:06:35.410 --> 00:06:39.769 things in common. But Beth also has a whole different 00:06:39.769 --> 00:06:44.490 skill set and had a whole life before ordained 00:06:44.490 --> 00:06:46.589 ministry as well that I think informs some of 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:48.970 the work that she does as well. So, no, yeah, 00:06:49.050 --> 00:06:53.449 she's amazing. Yeah, very cool. So, Rob, initially, 00:06:53.509 --> 00:06:56.329 why did you participate in this clergy coaching 00:06:56.329 --> 00:06:58.930 relationship? Well, actually, initially, it's 00:06:58.930 --> 00:07:00.709 not it wasn't really a choice. I don't believe 00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:04.389 I think that the diocesan is wisdom said this 00:07:04.389 --> 00:07:09.009 is a really important thing for for clergy and 00:07:09.009 --> 00:07:11.610 especially clergy who are in the midst of transition. 00:07:11.629 --> 00:07:14.350 So I believe there was a period of time when 00:07:14.350 --> 00:07:17.759 every. clergy person who was beginning at a new 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:21.560 place of ministry was required. Am I right in 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.519 saying this? The requirement is a related program 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.089 called Momentum. That is another kind of variation 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:31.370 of PD. But this wasn't required? Not required, 00:07:31.589 --> 00:07:34.850 but it was available on a limited basis when 00:07:34.850 --> 00:07:37.430 we were first getting started, Rob. But now, 00:07:37.550 --> 00:07:40.430 because of the demonstrated value added of it, 00:07:40.750 --> 00:07:43.389 the College of Bishops has said, hey, we want 00:07:43.389 --> 00:07:46.709 to make this more widely available. And one of 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:49.129 the keys is that it's one -on -one. coaching 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:52.269 together right right so there's that that customization 00:07:52.269 --> 00:07:55.589 of of the program and the relationship as we 00:07:55.589 --> 00:07:58.930 go forward and it's only 20 hours so we have 00:07:58.930 --> 00:08:01.209 to make really best use of the time that we have 00:08:01.209 --> 00:08:03.410 together but we spent more than 20 i mean the 00:08:03.410 --> 00:08:05.730 first go around was longer yeah the first go 00:08:05.730 --> 00:08:07.990 around was about twice that yeah to be honest 00:08:07.990 --> 00:08:10.389 so and this was when you were new to trinity 00:08:10.389 --> 00:08:13.589 yeah so that was actually another key thing to 00:08:13.589 --> 00:08:15.790 remember is that when you're coming in brand 00:08:15.790 --> 00:08:18.959 new to a place like trinity which I'll be honest, 00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:21.740 it was a stretch for me, you know, as I've never 00:08:21.740 --> 00:08:25.040 been in a leadership role in a church that was 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.319 quite like this or as big as this or as complicated 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:30.800 as this. And it was also in the midst of COVID, 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:33.360 right? The church was shut down. And so everybody 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.879 was trying to figure out what that meant and 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:38.399 how do we actually be the church. And, and so 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.659 when you're starting at a new church like Trinity 00:08:40.659 --> 00:08:43.299 and you can't even meet, you can't even like, 00:08:43.299 --> 00:08:46.639 man, oh man, it's, that's a. complex situation 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:51.379 and so uh yes i'm especially grateful that in 00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:54.500 that complex moment this was available to me 00:08:54.500 --> 00:08:57.259 um i i don't think i would have thought twice 00:08:57.259 --> 00:09:00.320 i don't remember how exactly it started but uh 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.340 sure it just i'm so glad it came along yeah for 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:06.379 sure so you had this period of time where where 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:08.960 you were meeting sort of fairly regularly um 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.899 but then that time came to an end and now you've 00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:16.259 sort of re -engaged this clergy coaching process. 00:09:16.379 --> 00:09:19.340 So what sort of prompted that for you? Okay, 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.259 so you're right. I'm not starting here anymore. 00:09:22.299 --> 00:09:25.919 I've been here close to five years now. But I 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:29.279 am, I don't know, I think I'm beginning to feel 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.039 and even as a staff team, we're beginning to 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:34.200 have conversations about that, you know, the 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:40.039 next season of Trinity could, you know, is also 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.879 could be particularly challenging in some ways. 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:45.539 There could be some opportunities that are coming 00:09:45.539 --> 00:09:50.299 our way. And I just started to feel like, man, 00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:53.279 I feel like I need a conversation partner in 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.860 this leadership role at this particular time 00:09:55.860 --> 00:10:00.460 again. And I, you know. I always missed the coaching 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:02.940 conversations we have. I mean, I was never glad 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:04.580 that it was over in the first place. It was just 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:06.299 that it was free and it was provided with a dice. 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.279 So I would have happily kept it going to be quite 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:13.139 entirely honest, but it did come to an end. But 00:10:13.139 --> 00:10:15.299 I don't know with some of the stuff going on 00:10:15.299 --> 00:10:17.440 with some of the grants that we have, some of 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.179 the strategic realignment process that we're 00:10:20.179 --> 00:10:22.120 going through right now, even just, you know, 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.019 working with and supporting our staff team. Yeah, 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:29.720 I. Really began to feel like, oh, it'd be good 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:33.100 to have that that partner again in some of these 00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:34.980 is what I work through some of these things. 00:10:35.059 --> 00:10:39.519 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so now reengaging this 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.740 process or sort of thinking about how it went 00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:44.379 a number of years ago. What have you found most 00:10:44.379 --> 00:10:47.899 helpful in this whole process? Well, we haven't 00:10:47.899 --> 00:10:51.120 actually begun yet. So the re -engagement begins 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.159 tomorrow morning. Okay. So to be quite honest, 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:59.919 there actually was a bit of work to be done with 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.159 talking to our bishops to say, hey, we would 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:03.799 like to do this again. And they'd be like, what? 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:06.220 That's unusual. No one's kind of come to us and 00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:09.299 asked to do it again. But I think they were actually 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:11.879 very interested to hear why we felt that way. 00:11:12.100 --> 00:11:16.440 And I'm almost certain that I think. And they're 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.700 kind of in some ways watching this a little closely 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:22.960 to say, oh, interesting. There are other points 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.379 in the life of a church and the life of leadership 00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:29.179 where this could be a valuable gift as well. 00:11:30.809 --> 00:11:33.169 Yeah, so we had to kind of make a case for it, 00:11:33.169 --> 00:11:35.450 right? Yeah, we made a successful case. And I 00:11:35.450 --> 00:11:38.009 think also as part of the prelude, the preparation 00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:41.549 for this next phase, Kyla, we've spent at least 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:44.870 three hours together asking ourselves, what are 00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:50.080 the objectives of these next 20 hours? The guided 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.000 conversation, if we want to put it that way, 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:55.299 has some particularity about it. We know big 00:11:55.299 --> 00:11:58.779 picture where this leadership ministry is being 00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:01.580 called. And we know that within that, grounded 00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:04.299 in what's going on here at Trinity and what God 00:12:04.299 --> 00:12:07.980 is up to here, Rob is articulating some particular 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.440 goals that he wants to wrap his head around and 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.500 his prayer around. And the other thing I would 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:16.320 say is that in this season for me, I'm also involved 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:21.179 in coaching. a pastor who's starting his very 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:24.720 first incumbency. So it's a challenging and a 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.039 wonderful gift for me to have an opportunity 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:30.159 to come alongside Rob, who is a seasoned pastoral 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.919 leader, at the same time having a chance to come 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:35.419 along someone who's beginning a very first appointment 00:12:35.419 --> 00:12:38.639 in this season. Yeah, very exciting. But I would 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.940 emphasize that part of the role that I think 00:12:40.940 --> 00:12:43.320 is important for a clergy coach comes very, very 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.139 early. As Rob mentioned, we're sort of kicking 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:49.879 it off tomorrow. preparation for that, uh, in, 00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:52.700 in discussing, maybe pushing back a little bit 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.059 with each other. What are these key goals? So 00:12:56.059 --> 00:12:58.820 that we, we have a sense of, yeah, we can, yeah, 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.639 we can tweak them as we go, but there's, it's 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.879 not random. It's, it's, it's directed and organized. 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:07.240 Sure. And are these goals that you can share 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:10.610 with us? I mean, they're, they're so. OK, so, 00:13:10.690 --> 00:13:12.970 for example, Trinity has this amazing vision. 00:13:13.049 --> 00:13:16.250 We want to love Jesus, live like Jesus, lead 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.549 others to Jesus, you know, learn from Jesus. 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:24.269 And I think that as we kind of, you know, just 00:13:24.269 --> 00:13:29.230 embrace that vision again, it's one thing to 00:13:29.230 --> 00:13:31.549 have a great vision statement, but it's another 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.250 to be able to actually, you know, what is that? 00:13:35.690 --> 00:13:37.029 What does that mean? What are we actually, what 00:13:37.029 --> 00:13:39.029 does that mean in practice? How are we actually 00:13:39.029 --> 00:13:42.409 living that out in concrete kind of ways? And 00:13:42.409 --> 00:13:46.610 I think that I'm the kind of guy who sometimes 00:13:46.610 --> 00:13:49.669 needs help making that transition from, you know, 00:13:49.669 --> 00:13:52.710 the big idea, the big vision into the concrete 00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:55.509 steps that kind of enact that. So definitely 00:13:55.509 --> 00:13:58.409 there's a piece around living into our vision 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.269 as a church. I would also say that right now 00:14:01.269 --> 00:14:04.870 we are in this moment where we have been receiving 00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:07.889 some diocesan grants to try some innovative and 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:09.710 new programs. In fact, this very thing we're 00:14:09.710 --> 00:14:12.389 doing right now is the result of some of that 00:14:12.389 --> 00:14:14.570 support from the diocese. But that support is 00:14:14.570 --> 00:14:18.289 waning, not intentionally. It's declining. That 00:14:18.289 --> 00:14:21.529 was always the plan. And it's just because it 00:14:21.529 --> 00:14:26.240 means that we have to. do some real kind of good 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.960 work around building up the resources to continue 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.440 this or find out what exactly is the best part 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.360 of all this learning and how do we carry that 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.480 on? How do we embed what we're learning over 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:40.820 these years into the life of this place in an 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:44.080 ongoing way? I don't want this grant period to 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.120 come to an end and then all of a sudden we're 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:47.940 like, oh, where did all that stuff go that we 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.419 were doing that was so cool, right? needing some 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:53.559 help that way. Sure. Related to that, I would 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:58.059 say is always needing help in managing an amazing. 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:02.059 staff team. Uh, but you know, there's, you know, 00:15:02.059 --> 00:15:03.960 it's a fairly big team these days. There's lots 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:05.899 of people and they're all kind of different personalities. 00:15:06.019 --> 00:15:08.360 And one of the things I loved in the early days 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.440 is when, when, uh, Beth and I were, were talking 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.340 every week, um, she really got to know the staff 00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:16.340 team as well. She got to know, she never met 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:19.600 them, but she knew them by name. She knew all 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.519 of their kids. She knew every, you know, the 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:23.639 good, the bad, there was no ugly, but there she, 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.080 she knew, she knew. And it was great. She's like, 00:15:26.139 --> 00:15:27.759 Oh, how is so -and -so doing with this? Or how's 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:29.740 it going? with that and how's it and that continues 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:32.039 to this day like there's a constant kind of need 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.399 for me to to um to make sure i'm doing the best 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.100 job that i can to create a healthy staff and 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:42.120 leadership culture sure here uh i don't take 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.220 it for granted you know you can lose it really 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:46.620 quickly i think if you make some bonehead moves 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:49.679 and some missteps so so getting some support 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:54.120 that way is also uh is also a thing and i'll 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.210 just say maybe one more thing is In the midst 00:15:57.210 --> 00:16:01.269 of all that, I need a conversation partner to 00:16:01.269 --> 00:16:04.029 be helping me stay healthy spiritually myself, 00:16:04.269 --> 00:16:07.470 right? To ensure that I'm putting in the time. 00:16:08.009 --> 00:16:12.950 to maintain a healthy spiritual life, the kind 00:16:12.950 --> 00:16:14.789 of spiritual life that can actually undergird 00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:16.649 and support the amount of work that we're doing 00:16:16.649 --> 00:16:19.350 here. And I think a real crisis, well, we're 00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:21.370 learning about this on our staff team right now. 00:16:21.389 --> 00:16:25.090 We're reading a book together about how ensuring 00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:27.789 that we have enough emotional and spiritual health 00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:32.019 within us. to support all this doing. We have 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:35.480 to first invest in the being, and only then can 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:38.899 we lead into the doing. And so I think Beth will 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:40.639 be a great help to me in that regard, too, to 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.059 say, hey, Rob, are you taking care of yourself? 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.879 How is your prayer life going? What is God teaching 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.200 you these days personally in your own reflections 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.919 and quiet times and stuff like that? And how 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:52.740 are you? Are you getting away? Are you finding 00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:54.480 time to retreat with God? You know, all those 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.350 kind of... things that I think are also part 00:16:57.350 --> 00:17:00.769 of the package and one of the goals of our re 00:17:00.769 --> 00:17:04.630 -engagement. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So when you think 00:17:04.630 --> 00:17:08.849 back on the sort of history of this, this clergy 00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:11.890 coaching relationship and process, yeah. Like 00:17:11.890 --> 00:17:15.180 what, what did you find most beneficial? Uh, 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:17.319 and, and yeah, then why did you want to sort 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.420 of re -engage it at this point that you were 00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:22.279 like, ah, I want to get that again. Yeah. Well, 00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:25.240 as you know, although we have an amazing staff 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.700 team here, uh, I still, at this point happened 00:17:27.700 --> 00:17:29.960 to be the only clergy person right here. So, 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:34.299 uh, and, um, I, we've done that very intentionally 00:17:34.299 --> 00:17:36.740 and in many ways, I have no regrets about that 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:39.410 whatsoever, but there is this. pardon me from 00:17:39.410 --> 00:17:43.769 time to time that, uh, does want to hear from 00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:47.349 someone who has a perspective of being a parish 00:17:47.349 --> 00:17:50.289 leader, a clergy person who's, who's gone through 00:17:50.289 --> 00:17:53.329 some of these same kind of ups and downs and 00:17:53.329 --> 00:17:55.390 struggles that I, you know, am encountering. 00:17:55.390 --> 00:17:57.009 And so, yeah, I can always talk to you about 00:17:57.009 --> 00:17:58.670 stuff. I can talk to Libby about stuff, Alex, 00:17:58.710 --> 00:17:59.990 I got, you know, I have lots of people to talk 00:17:59.990 --> 00:18:02.349 to. And Natalie is a great conversation partner 00:18:02.349 --> 00:18:05.309 for me, but sometimes you do want that, that 00:18:05.309 --> 00:18:09.000 person who has the. the pastoral ministry perspective 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.839 to bring, to bring to it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.019 that's great. And I would also say this is a 00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:17.200 mutual kind of faith deepening discipleship thing 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.779 that we're doing together rather unconsciously 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:22.339 or consciously. Like I really feel the blessing 00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:25.680 of deepening my understanding of discipleship 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.299 and my, my yes to God as, as a disciple in this 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:31.420 stage of my career. And one of the, I've just 00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:33.599 come from the nine 15 worship service, by the 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.509 way, and I feel thoroughly nourished. And upheld. 00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.529 And I even met a few people that I've known from 00:18:39.529 --> 00:18:42.990 other activities in the diocese. So I feel nourished 00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:46.589 and grounded after being in worship with Trinity 00:18:46.589 --> 00:18:48.829 here this morning. And to begin a morning with 00:18:48.829 --> 00:18:51.430 a baptism, I mean, does it get much better than 00:18:51.430 --> 00:18:55.609 that? So we're really wanting to celebrate and 00:18:55.609 --> 00:18:58.670 to create that safe place for a conversation 00:18:58.670 --> 00:19:03.549 that's safe and private but life -giving and 00:19:03.549 --> 00:19:07.849 about formation. and recognizing the mission 00:19:07.849 --> 00:19:10.690 that God is calling the whole community into 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:13.269 here. It's very exciting. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:14.970 And that's another thing that I really appreciate 00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:17.170 about how this relationship has gone is that 00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:19.490 is, you know, Beth is very highly invested in 00:19:19.490 --> 00:19:23.109 this place. And I mean, even back during COVID, 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:26.289 she was watching the services week by week, kind 00:19:26.289 --> 00:19:28.529 of online. And again, getting to know the players, 00:19:28.609 --> 00:19:31.369 getting to know the people, you know, and it 00:19:31.369 --> 00:19:35.200 was. that was just so such a blessing to have 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.359 somebody who was paying such close attention 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.720 to all this stuff. And so, yeah, like I suppose 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.400 as a coach, if you have multiple people you're 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.220 coaching, it could, it could possibly be that 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.599 you just start to like, I'll ask the standard 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:49.539 questions, you know, how are things going, you 00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:52.160 know, but it never felt like that. It felt like 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.259 she really knew this place. And, and, and even 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:58.240 this is the first time you've been here in person. 00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:04.740 I was here in February of 2023. I came alongside 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.940 the pastoral leadership development team for 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.200 a bit of a seminar. And what a wonderful half 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.640 day that was. Sally and her team were leading 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:16.799 that. So that was really fun. But I was saying 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.220 to Kyla how I really feel part of the Instagram 00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:23.680 community. Is it every morning that something 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.259 comes across my in basket? And I thought, wow, 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.980 this last. week the gospel is a door i mean whether 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:35.980 what i want to say is whether you're worshiping 00:20:35.980 --> 00:20:38.460 here whether you're considering whether you're 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:41.099 seeking whether you're a longtime member of trinity 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:44.140 streetsville the idea that the gospel is a door 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:48.539 inviting you in to send you out as part of god's 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:51.960 mission the door opens The welcome is genuine. 00:20:51.980 --> 00:20:54.400 I felt it this morning. I even got a name tag. 00:20:54.619 --> 00:20:58.579 And then gently being sent into the world to 00:20:58.579 --> 00:21:01.740 be God's hand and voice and heart. So, you know, 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.700 I've been in parish ministry a long time, but 00:21:03.700 --> 00:21:06.700 I just wanted to say that that idea is so powerful. 00:21:06.819 --> 00:21:10.299 It's so visual and it's so life -giving that 00:21:10.299 --> 00:21:12.099 that's the kind of thing that you're speaking 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:15.329 to the Trinity family. But you're also speaking 00:21:15.329 --> 00:21:18.049 beyond. You're communicating into the kingdom. 00:21:18.250 --> 00:21:20.390 And that's something that I know Rob and I are 00:21:20.390 --> 00:21:24.029 really passionate about. And so I think the coaching 00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:26.890 relationship, there's a mutuality about it that 00:21:26.890 --> 00:21:30.329 I want to say. And yes, I'm privileged to bring 00:21:30.329 --> 00:21:34.190 perhaps a particular perspective to it. But it's 00:21:34.190 --> 00:21:36.690 when it has this mutual component to it, I think, 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:39.109 that we both feel after a session like, well, 00:21:39.269 --> 00:21:43.829 see you next time. And so it's a real gift. I 00:21:43.829 --> 00:21:49.650 think, to both of us. Yeah. So then it sounds 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:53.430 wonderful. And you also, I think, mentioned earlier 00:21:53.430 --> 00:21:55.329 this idea that, you know, sometimes there are 00:21:55.329 --> 00:21:57.589 hard conversations. Sometimes there are provocative 00:21:57.589 --> 00:22:00.089 questions that need to be asked. And so I'm wondering, 00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:03.609 like, what are the challenges that you face as 00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:06.549 you walk through this process together? Like, 00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:08.710 what are the things that we as a church can be 00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:11.529 like praying for you for in the midst of this? 00:22:13.939 --> 00:22:17.259 Well, I think some of the hardest questions that 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:21.240 Beth might ask would be the why questions, right? 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:27.559 Even like when we were trying to put this together 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.700 to say like, let's do this coaching thing again. 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.460 You know, the question was why? There's got to 00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:37.559 be a compelling why. And again, knowing my own 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.099 tendency to be an ideas person, to be a vision 00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:43.319 person. Oh, let's try this or let's do that. 00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:46.839 it's you know the hardest questions are sometimes 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.660 like you know why where does that fit how does 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:52.119 that you know yeah yeah help you live into your 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:54.940 vision and so uh i i appreciate those questions 00:22:54.940 --> 00:22:56.559 i need those questions but those are some of 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.700 the harder ones i think that we could get asked 00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:01.519 sometimes i ask questions about translating an 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:07.180 idea into action or or visualizing an idea and 00:23:07.180 --> 00:23:10.799 and then and then having a feedback loop sure 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.500 so we can say hey that was an awesome idea uh 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:15.799 we've been running with it. This is what we've 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.000 been learning with the team, with the congregation 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.779 in general. Do we want to tweak it? Who's being 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:25.200 celebrated here? That's another thing about it. 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.099 But for me, these are all normal challenges. 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:32.579 These are things that we want to welcome. And 00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:34.539 I think that that's where the coaching relationship 00:23:34.539 --> 00:23:37.380 on trust is really important. We mentioned that 00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:40.619 already. We want to create that safe place, knowing 00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:44.759 that God is in charge of this and that we are 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.759 trying to tune our ears and our hands and our 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.619 hearts to be able to faithfully respond. It's 00:23:50.619 --> 00:23:54.160 as easy and delicate and precious as that, I 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:57.829 think. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, one other thing 00:23:57.829 --> 00:24:00.990 that, you know, does is kind of a challenge is 00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:02.910 that challenge. But you have to we have to make 00:24:02.910 --> 00:24:05.450 time for this. Right. Like so there has to be 00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:09.690 a willingness to set aside time to prepare for 00:24:09.690 --> 00:24:13.809 these conversations than to to take the learnings 00:24:13.809 --> 00:24:16.150 away and try to do some implementation. So it's 00:24:16.150 --> 00:24:19.549 it's, you know, I think to get the most out of 00:24:19.549 --> 00:24:22.369 them, you've got to carve out some margin in 00:24:22.369 --> 00:24:27.150 your your schedule. And so that's always a challenge, 00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:31.390 but it always pays off to do that work. Yeah, 00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:34.190 yeah, for sure, for sure. And Rob is, as you 00:24:34.190 --> 00:24:36.690 know, he's a great initiator. So he's really 00:24:36.690 --> 00:24:40.130 keen to take the, if there's one or two actions 00:24:40.130 --> 00:24:41.970 that come out of our hour together tomorrow, 00:24:42.130 --> 00:24:45.369 he'll take those and work on them. And then so 00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:49.759 that the onus is on Rob, right? I I'm just the 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:59.019 lazy conversation partner. And how are you? So, 00:24:59.099 --> 00:25:01.559 yeah, that's, but that's where he's the director 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.940 of it. Right. And prayerfully in the power of 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:06.079 the spirit directing this. And then, so we have 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:09.099 this, this kind of a unique relationship. Yeah. 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.019 It's awesome. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I think. 00:25:13.549 --> 00:25:16.529 We've covered a lot of ground in sort of talking 00:25:16.529 --> 00:25:18.529 about, you know, going from, well, first of all, 00:25:18.529 --> 00:25:20.809 what in the world is this? To, yeah, what does 00:25:20.809 --> 00:25:22.809 this look like in the life of Trinity? What does 00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:26.069 this look like in your life, Rob? Is there anything 00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:27.990 we've missed? Anything else that either of you 00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:30.289 wanted to sort of make sure our congregation 00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:34.309 knows about this relationship or about how this 00:25:34.309 --> 00:25:39.250 all works? If not, that's all right, too. Yeah. 00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:42.650 I would just say, just off the top of my head, 00:25:42.690 --> 00:25:46.390 Kyla, that you feel, I think, the energy in this 00:25:46.390 --> 00:25:50.509 partnership that we have. And also just how important 00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:53.509 it is for how the congregation is nourishing 00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:56.930 Rob and his leadership ministry here. And the 00:25:56.930 --> 00:25:59.910 possibilities and the energy, the communication 00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:03.849 that you're already doing, it's setting a benchmark 00:26:03.849 --> 00:26:06.849 for the diocese. I know that may sound sort of... 00:26:07.809 --> 00:26:10.730 saccharine or easy to very grand right but i 00:26:10.730 --> 00:26:13.450 want you to know that from my perspective having 00:26:13.450 --> 00:26:15.269 opportunity to be here and there and around and 00:26:15.269 --> 00:26:19.410 about um that this is this is the diocese saying 00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:21.970 there's something important happening here and 00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:23.950 and we want you to know that we're with you yeah 00:26:23.950 --> 00:26:26.829 yeah and i think that's that's important for 00:26:26.829 --> 00:26:30.359 sure yeah for sure yeah yeah thanks yeah Well, 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.380 thank you both so much. This has been a really 00:26:32.380 --> 00:26:36.180 good conversation. Yeah. And thank you for tuning 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:39.980 in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I 00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.640 hope that you are also able to find some conversational 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.339 partners for yourself to help you as you walk 00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:47.779 through your spiritual journey. And if you are 00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:50.160 part of our community here at Trinity, I want 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:52.119 to just encourage you to continue praying for 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.220 Rob and for Beth and figuring out, yeah, what 00:26:55.220 --> 00:26:58.859 is God leading us as a community towards? And 00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:00.059 we will see you again next week.