Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is
Britt. And we are here to talk about... letters,
but also very one specific letter. The Bible
is full of all kinds of different letters that
are written by people to the churches. That's
some of what we're studying in our sermon series
on Sunday mornings. But I want us to fast -forward
quite a bit, a couple thousand years, to 1963,
when Martin Luther King Jr. writes a letter from
a Birmingham jail. That letter is also I think,
a letter to the churches. It's a letter to at
least clergy, to church leaders. Yeah. And so
I think it actually still has a lot of really
helpful things for us to say to us today. So
I know my... Maybe not my first experience of
this letter, but my most meaningful sort of experience
with this letter was actually in Birmingham So
I was there for a conference And at this university
campus that I was on in their library They had
a whole display about the letter from Birmingham
Jail. Oh, wow Yeah, and I just like stood in
this library and read this letter and as I was
reading it I was like was this written 60 years
ago because like this feels very true right now
So yeah, I don't know what your thoughts, how
you sort of approached it. Yeah, no, reading
it back felt like, it felt like Martin Luther
King Jr. is alive today and wrote it to us now.
It felt very, yeah, it felt modern in so many
ways. Yeah, and then just to think that he was
writing it. in a jail at that time. Like at the
end, I think he kind of like, it's almost like
sarcasm. He says, I'm sorry, this is so long,
but I'm in jail. Got nothing better to do. Yeah,
there's so much humanity wrapped up in it. It's,
yeah, it took me for a spin, but it felt, it
felt so, felt so modern that it almost didn't
feel like I was reading something back from the
1960s, which is Yeah, fascinating for me. It
is, yeah. For folks who don't know, it was written
in 1963 in a Birmingham jail. That's what it's
called, the letter from the Birmingham jail.
At that time, actually in the letter, King describes
Birmingham as one of the most segregated cities
in America. He's been arrested for being part
of a public demonstration there to oppose segregation.
And he's writing actually predominantly to eight
white clergy who have written this open letter
that was then published in a newspaper criticizing
this civil rights movement and saying, this is
not the right time. You're not really going about
this the right way. And there's a lot of fear
of, is this breaking down our Christian witness
by creating these tensions between the white
church and the black church. Yeah, and that's
sort of the context that he's addressing. But
yeah, as you were reading the letter, were there
any particular parts that stood out to you? Yeah,
I think the part that stood out to me the most
was like at the the the reason for the letter
was because, as you said, the saying the method
and the timing is of their action was was wrong.
And I feel like King really gets at when is the
right time, what is the right method to go about
creating change or being a Christian witness.
And I was constantly challenged by that. It took
me back to thinking of the things that are happening
in our world today. in the many ways that it
is so much, it actually almost reminded me of
a letter to the Church of Laodicea with like,
I would rather you be hot or cold. And it felt
like he was speaking to me and saying like, choose
a side. In fact, maybe if there's not just one
or the other, but there is, I think he describes
it as like this perfect way. And that really
sat with me. What are Christians called to do?
How are we called to witness? And when are we
called to witness? And how do we challenge the
norms in our society to actually live into our
call? Talking like that was also one of the parts
that really like stood out to me was You know
that he talks about like the Yeah, they're there.
That's the part I was looking for he so he says
I've reached the almost regrettable conclusion
that the Negro's great stumbling block in the
stride towards freedom is not in the white citizen's
counselor or in the KKK, but in the white moderate
who is devoted to order more than justice, who
prefers a negative peace, which is the absence
of tension, to a positive peace, which is the
presence of justice. Shallow understanding from
people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute
misunderstanding from people of ill will. That
whole section there really jumped out to me.
Who am I? Where do I fit in this? You can deal
with passion on either side. If somebody's really
passionate for a cause, you can work with that
energy. If someone is really passionate against
a cause, obviously that's not... Ideal but like
at least there's like an energy there. I know
where you stand Yeah, I know where you stand
and I know like I know not to like try and trust
you right, but like for someone who's just like
Yeah in the middle then it's like there's no
energy there to work with there's no sense of
like like I It's unpredictable. Yes, and then
the other thing like I so he he gets at the the
clergy that wrote this this letter that he's
responding to Uh, and there was a point where
he does commend them for the things that they,
that they did do. Um, but it's almost as though
they were willing to go, they weren't willing
to go the full way. And in that, that maybe almost
reminds me of like, if I'm going to stretch it
a little bit, the rich young ruler who was willing
to do some things, but that, that I keep coming
back to that perfect way. That was the part that
kept the rich, the rich young ruler didn't want
to go the full mile that Jesus was calling them
into. And I could foresee, I see that in the
way that those men, I'm assuming they're all
men, 60s. But in that same way, I feel like they
were willing to do some things. So maybe in their
local congregation, I think two of them had ended
the practice of her segregation within their
local congregation. But even that King says is
not enough. Because what is the sense? Yes, you're
able to have worship within your congregation,
but you still have this whole other realm where
people are treated as less than human beings.
And so for King, it's like it's not enough to
do the bare minimum. And I think that's the that
piece about lukewarmness. It's like I'll just
do a little bit. I don't want to ruffle the feathers
as too much. But yeah, they weren't willing to
do the hard thing, the thing that costs you something.
I sit in my seat and I'm like, yeah, no, no,
no. I could see how that is something that...
I today could have issues with. And he doesn't
just talk about the white moderates, right? He
talks about the, in explaining the plight and
the struggle of African Americans, he does talk
about the different positions or groups that
they would have fallen into in the 60s. So you
have the ones who were... who were so used to
oppression that they just they just saw it as
normal and didn't even fight against it. And
then you had the other the second group who he
described as like academics and maybe business
people who had because they had that social access,
and they probably had some sort of financial
gain in the social structure of segregation,
they were willing to just let it be because there's
something in it for me. I think a lot of us,
for many of us who are middle class, that is
a thing that tends to happen. I could see myself
in that. And then you have the what he described
as black nationalists, folks that were that they
at the end of the day, they were like, you know,
I don't believe that these white men are going
to change their minds. I don't believe that the
system is going to change. So there's going to
be devils and we're just going to have to do
what we got to do. And I could see all of like,
I see us in those camps. And I don't think he's
calling for us to be any three of those. So in
the same way, he's not calling for us to be extreme
clansmen or moderates. I think King was just
saying be a Christian. Right. Like just be a
Christian. Anyway. Yeah, no, no, that's so interesting
that. Yeah, because I think it is helpful to
like draw some parallels to the way of Jesus
in this, because like obviously that is. sort
of what is calling him is Christ, and he's very
upfront about that. Yeah, and just that sense
that Jesus is constantly disturbing the peace,
right? And showing up and doing the things that
are not expected, hanging out with the people
that are on the margins, and doing that to the
point of death. And so, yeah, there's a cost.
Like, if we're following Jesus, and Jesus is
an example, like, there was so much cost to him.
And so, obviously, there's cost to us. And then,
yeah, so the question then becomes like, if I'm
not experiencing a cost, like, am I? faithfully
following Jesus. Now that feels also like a slippery
slope. Cause like, I don't, I don't want to say
that the way that in order to be a faithful Christian,
you like have to be suffering. Cause like, let's
not all run out and chase suffering. Um, but
like there is something about following the way
of Jesus that just is gonna set you apart in
some way and like alienate you from some people,
I think. Yeah. Yeah, there's so much tension
in all of it. A word he used often as well. Yeah,
that word tension, in my gut, I hear tension
and I want to hide away from it because it feels
like I'm a conflict -avoiding kind of person
most of the time. And so tension just doesn't
feel good. But the point that that Martin Luther
makes is that tension can be positive. He talks
about it being like the gadflies that bite an
animal and get them doing a thing. And that's
what tension should be. It's not that it's tension
for tension's sake. It's not for the sake of...
stirring up stuff. It's for the sake of moving
something forward and like drawing attention
to things that otherwise we might ignore, especially
if you're sitting in a seat of privilege, especially
or if you're like benefiting from the status
quo or just like not negatively impacted by the
status quo. Right? Yeah. So that leads me to
think of his, like when he's talking about direct
action. And I guess the question that was posed
to him in the original letter was that not right
way, not right time, why not use negotiation?
And he says, well, they're not willing to negotiate.
And he gets into something that I actually think
in a lot of protest movements that I've witnessed,
a tool that they use very often. It doesn't necessarily
happen within our Christian context as much,
but it's something that I've seen where you can't
get a group to be in conversation with you in
good faith. So you create that tension, those
conditions for tension, so you can have that
discourse in a meaningful way, one that gets
people to really listen. It's in the inconvenience,
in the... like there's so much examples that
we've seen. In that inconvenience, I can get
you to face the reality. And I thought it was
fascinating how he compared the tension that
that direct action creates for predominantly
white folks in Alabama or created for white folks
in Alabama to the tension that he describes for
his children. And it's it awoken something into
me. Like he said, he talked about his daughter
and how his daughter has to deal with that tension.
Right. When she looks at the amusement park advertisement
and she's like, I want to go there. And he has
to tell her, well, no, colored people are not
allowed there. And then he talks about his son
and he gives another example and he says, well,
and now he, and he talks about how like that
tension creates something. It creates, he now
he has to try and shift that energy that his
daughter and his son have that could brew hate,
which he explicitly says it's like it's a natural
consequence. So it's like the idea of everyone
will experience tension. Tension is something
that happens in relationship. So we avoid it.
And I guess the if we're going to actually try
and maintain human relationship, then the right
thing to do is to just Do the direct action and
make it happen, right? Which is uncomfortable,
but I think it does push us to a place where
We can be in relationship with each other because
I think what we're doing is we're trying to avoid
it, right? Yeah, and I wonder if like part of
what direct action does is it? Creates the tension
like earlier Yeah, I could then like like because
if in the example of these kids if they are,
you know experiencing this tension and then they
grow up and grow into a sense of greater tension
and alienation and maybe even hate or anger towards
others, then that's going to be something that
then blows up and gets bigger over time. Whereas
direct action says, let's not move towards that
inevitable. Let's throw the tension in your face
right now so that we can deal with it before
we get to hating each other or before we all
get there anyway. Before we all get there, because
the reality is that many people had already gotten
there. Totally. Um, and there's a whole other
ecosystem in the sixties, uh, filled with black
national movements and a lot of that created
a lot of violence. Um, and what King is saying
is like, I understand how that violence is created
and it's not created in a vacuum. It's created
because of those early, those early narratives,
those early experiences of children. Uh, and
he uses his kids as a perfect example, I think.
Um, and yeah, like I think we have to deal with
tension. If we're going to be in relationship
with each other, we have to let tension exist.
So if we are in conflict with each other, then
we need to be able to tackle that right on. And
if we see that there are inklings of maybe someone
trying to avoid that tension, then maybe the
good thing to do is to just say, you know what,
I'm going to take up a little bit of space so
that we can have this conversation in a way that
is like it doesn't have to be like his example
is direct his example in that particular situation
the government was not listening the community
was not listening and they didn't have to listen
because they were creating more and more roadblocks
for them to be even be able to vote or to be
able to access services And that's so what he
does is an extreme. And he sees it as something
like, yes, this is inconvenience, this is extreme.
But I think in our one -to -one relationships,
and I think he rightfully points out Martin Buber
and uses that I and thou, I it relationship dynamic
to say, if we are humans, if you believe that
I'm a human and you're a human, if you believe
that you're a child of God, I'm a child of God,
then we need to be in conversation with each
other. And you need to be able to hear and understand
my plight. And that is, that is tough. It's uncomfortable.
I hate doing it. Sure. But I know that if I'm
going to be in relationship in community with
people, if I'm going to say I love you and I
care for you, and that's also what he gets at
too, then I need to be able to. I need to be
able to just let tension be so it could escape
in some way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think
people use this analogy when they're talking
about anger. You bottle it up inside for so long,
and then at some point, it's going to explode.
And that is true on lots of different levels.
it is that tension that builds up that we need
to find healthy ways of releasing. And sometimes
I think when people think about healthy ways
of releasing anger, they think about like, okay,
so don't direct it towards people at all. And
like, maybe, but maybe it means I direct, I talk
to you about my anger without exploding at you.
Right? And maybe it means like, Because especially
if the conditions are such that like the thing
that I'm angry about is just going to continually
be true like it's it's one thing if somebody
does something that like Frustrates me and then
it's over but like if that is how society is
structured to constantly frustrate me then like
that's a bigger problem. Yeah. Yeah So I guess
the other part that I'm curious. Yeah, it was
like his conversation on laws. And that was also
when I was like, I was tussling as I was reading
it. Like, what do you do? And I think the example
he gave was right. I think it's true for all
time. And he uses Nazi Germany as an example.
And I thought that was a perfect example for
that. That's one that our society tends to see
is very white and black. There's not much unless
we're, I don't know, upside down, where that's
going to be a challenge in that way. So just
to then clarify there, what he said was that
we can never forget that everything that Hitler
did in Germany was legal, and everything that
the freedom fighters did was illegal. But that
doesn't make it actually right. There were laws
that made it possible for Nazi Germany to exist,
but that doesn't mean that that was... Good.
Yeah. But then he puts himself, I think what's
easy for us, it's easy for us to talk about things
as abstract or outside of ourselves. And I found
the way that he put himself in the story. And
he asks, he says, would I have done, if I was
in Nazi Germany, what would have been my reaction
to those laws? Would I have respected them? Or
as a Christian? would I have seen them as unjust
and what I have done?" I think he describes it
as the perfect way. I think he used that word.
I think that's the word he used. But yeah, I
think for more and more of us, and I was challenged
by this, how do I put myself outside of just
saying, because that's the moderate response.
The moderate response is to see something and
say, that's wrong, and then walk away. The minimum
is to just say, this is wrong. But he's saying
the Christian response is to follow actually
the moral law, the law of God, and to do something.
Just because something's on the books doesn't
mean I have to agree with it. Actually, I should
challenge it through my understanding of God's
laws. And that should be the guide for how I
make my decisions. and what I do in that context.
But that's hard to insert ourselves. That was
a self -exercise we did often. I don't know if
it challenged you in that way. Yeah, totally.
It's really interesting to think about some of
these examples that are so... practical and so
like life or death because like I have heard
lots of preachers talk about this idea that like
God's law is is the the preeminent law and so
like human laws should you know align with that
but if they don't follow God's law but usually
what they're talking about are like things that
seem less important to me. They're talking about
the way that you spend your time or your money.
They're talking about whether we should vote
this way or that way. These are important things,
but in this context, it's like, no, are you following
God's law of love and life? Or are you following
this in the example of Nazi Germany, this other
law that literally leads to death? Yeah, and
so I think sometimes we overcomplicate God's
law. Especially if we look at Scripture in the
Old Testament, God's law can seem really complicated.
There's like 600 or so of these laws, and we're
like, oh yeah, so we can't possibly follow all
of them, so let's just throw them out. But Jesus
then summarizes God's law as love. Love God.
love your neighbor as yourself. This is the law
and the prophets according to G -List. It's hard,
but it's not complicated. But it gets complicated
when you have something to lose, right? And I
do see how that can be challenging when doing
the right thing could mean that I could lose
my job. Or I could lose my friends or my family
members. And that happened for some people. Some
of the people that Martin Luther King describes
in the letter as, I guess today we call them
white allies in the story. He names them out.
And if you look at their stories, they went through
a lot. They were demonized and blacklisted. And
those types of things happen to those people.
So, are we willing to let that happen to us?
Let the pieces fall where they may. Martin Luther
King Jr. was labeled, if I'm not wrong, was labeled
almost like a terrorist and was watched by the
FBI. Are we willing to do the right thing at
that cost? There's so many things I think we
weigh against when it comes time to do the right
thing. It's like, well, we're thinking about
things I think are reasonable to an extent if
we're thinking of, OK, well, I might lose my
house. If I lose my job, I lose my house. I can't
feed my kids. And those are things that I think
can be pretty typical for us to think of or we
can define it as reasonable. Am I really trusting
God if I believe that God can really hold all,
can control my circumstance or be there for me
in times of need? Then do I really trust God?
And I do believe because he was writing in the
jail. That was not his first show. He trusted
God to hold him in the tension that existed in
his wider society. that led to tension in his
home, that led to tension within his community.
He held on to God and believed God and trusted
God. And he speaks about those other individuals
that did the same thing. He talks about Abraham
and he talks about his namesake, Martin Luther.
And he talks about Paul and he talks about these
people that said, you know, I'm going to trust
God anyway and I'm going to do the thing that
God has called me to do. which is to seek justice,
to love mercy. I talked about Amos. He named
all these great giants that did lose something
when they did the thing that God called them
to do, when they chose God's law over the law
of the land. People have done it. He's done it.
He's calling us. He's calling those ministers
he was writing to, and I believe he's calling
us to follow God, to listen to God, to not be
lukewarm. Yeah. It's interesting because I feel
like there's one sense in which none of this
makes sense without faith. Right? And that's
not to say that people who aren't Christians
or people who aren't people of faith can't join
in these movements. They definitely can. But
there's something about being a person of faith
and saying, I trust God. I'm following the way
of Jesus. I don't know, it adds some weight to
it. And it adds some grounding to it, I think.
Right? Because it's not like, oh, I'm just doing
this because I personally believe in this set
of ethics or I personally believe in these things
that have led me to want to do this. It's like,
no, I believe in the God of the universe. I believe
in the sovereign Lord who is over all of this
and in all of this. And so, on the one sense,
that means it's not... up to me, right? I don't
have to control the outcome of this movement
or this action. And if this action ends up in
the way that is not ideal for me, I have something
to fall back on, which is God. And that doesn't
always mean physical comfort and safety, right?
He talks about the early Christians who were
thrown to the lions for disobeying Caesar's law
and these things, right? It's not going to...
Turn out comfy cozy. No, but it is. There's still
something good about it. Yeah. Cause great is
your reward in heaven. I agree with you. Like
there's that grounding. Cause I look at a lot
of our movements today and I see, I see so much
despair. Um, it doesn't feel like And I'm generalizing,
but it doesn't seem like folks are hopeful for
something. I asked myself the question of, okay,
yes, we're tearing something down, but what are
we building? And I think Martin Luther King Jr.
knew what he was building. He knew what he was
building was, he was ushering in the kingdom
of God for all people at all times. And I yeah,
I think that is something that we need to hold
into. Like he's in his letter. I don't think
it's. And I was sure I shared the letter with
someone recently, and I was I was saying, you
know, like there's so much in our so much in
our world is pushing us to be like to pick a
side, pick a lane, pick a cause, do this. And
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear
you. But. He's not calling any of those. He didn't
call those people to pick a left or a right.
He called them to pick Jesus, pick Jesus fully.
And that is, I think that's the harder thing
to do. I think it's easier to pick those spots.
And then in both spots, I think you choose anger
or you choose numbness. But that's not the way
of Jesus. There's something hopeful and grounding,
as you said, that is in that, that keeps you.
I don't know if you've seen the footage from
some of the footage that they have when they
were marching. And I often look back at some
of the footage where you see the police brutality
and you see their faces, how solid they were.
There's something horrific is happening to them.
They're just so resolute that they're going to
just stand their ground and do the thing that
they came to do. They never shout back. They
never hit back. They're just solid. And how were
they capable of doing that? I can only see that
Jesus had to be with them in that moment to make
them feel like they could do it. Yeah, I think
it brings this letter into conversation with
like the I have a dream speech in some sense,
because it is the dream. Like there is that thing
that we're working towards. And I think if it's
only we're running away from something, we're
afraid of something. You know, segregation is
bad, obviously. In the modern day, you know,
like climate change, whatever it is, like all
of these things that we are trying to push back.
It's like, OK, sure, push back. But like, what
are you pushing? towards. Yeah. And if you don't
have something you're going towards, then like,
I don't know, it just you it I think it's harder
than to stand your ground. Yeah, especially when
you see major setbacks. Yeah. And he saw many
of those. But with the context with the context
of knowing, having that grounding, I think it
It gives you the space, even in the midst of
the setbacks, in the midst of further oppression,
to be able to stay focused. And I see that. I
feel like this letter took me places because
it's the encouragement I think we need to see
today. And that's why I felt like it was like,
is he right? Did he write this just yesterday
and pen it for the New York Times or something?
Like, who wrote this? Like in 1960s, it doesn't
make any sense. But I think there's its principle,
right? Like throughout time. And that's why he's
able to. echo back or reflect back to scriptural
time or to the 1940s and years gone by because
it's a principle. It's not. Because political
positions sway and they move and popular opinion
sways and it moves. But yeah, if we're getting
back to what he talks about, like the laws, like
God's law stays forever and the principles that
Jesus has set out for us. those remain. They're
not time -bound. They are, I'm looking for my
theological word, but I don't have it. They're
trans -cultural, and they push beyond what we
currently know, and they remain consistent. Yeah,
because it's Jesus. And Jesus is the same yesterday,
today, and forever, but not in a boring way.
In a just like always relevant way. Which then
makes me think about this other line that really
stood out to me in the letter where Martin Luther
King was talking about, you know, if the church
doesn't address the issues of the day. And in
his day, that was segregation. There's, we could
insert lots of other things in our day, but if
the church is not addressing the issue of the
day, then we risk becoming what he called an
irrelevant social club. And when I read that,
I was like, wow, so many of my peers would sit
and say, the church is pretty irrelevant. And
people just like go there and hang out and then
they go back and do their lives. But like, meh,
it hasn't changed anything. Um, yeah. So like,
when I read that, I was like, Oh, so has the
church, the church has been waning towards irrelevancy
for a while. And that's scary. But also I don't
think it's universally true, right? Like I think
there are local churches, there are people following
Jesus who are desperately trying to be relevant
and who I think are doing that well. But it's
not it. It's not always the norm, I guess. Well,
then this is what I would say for like, how do
you do that? Well, and I think at the crux of
the letter, I feel like he's calling people into
relationship into a deeper listening. And I think
if the church churches that do that, well, our
churches that prioritize relationships, prioritize
deep relationship, prioritize Not just doing
a program. Forget our Sunday production. That's
not the focus. The focus is being in a relationship
with each other to build a stronger kingdom.
And I think that's where... we get it wrong because
we push away these issues that people are dealing
with in their day to day. I remember he talked
about the experiences that his children were
going through. If we were to ignore those things
within our Christian community and we didn't
create space to hear those stories and to share
in the carrying of those burdens, then yeah,
it would become irrelevant because we're not
tapped in. If I don't know what my brother or
sister or sibling is going through, how can I
be in relationship with them? Yeah, I think that's
one thing that I think is just I think could
be really beautiful from like the pen pal writing
series is that it could push us into even deeper
relationship because we're forced something about
letter writing is you're forced to listen. Yeah,
you can't. pause the letter and start talking.
You just need to listen. You need to listen.
And yeah, I think that is, if the church is going
to become relevant, then we need to be able to
listen. We need to put aside the program. And
I, all I do is program design. That's it. So
I'm like, I know, I know, I know we need to,
we have a timeline. We need to get out the door.
Like I get it. But if we're not in conversation
with each other, then what's going to happen
is there's going to be a moment where we're faced
with it head on. And that's going to be uncomfortable.
And it's going to be disruptive. And he even
says it could even be dangerous. And the church
doesn't want to be in that mix. We want to be
in the mix of creating further spaces for dialogue
so people can be heard. can be valued. I think
in its micro level like this, if we can start
doing that within... uh, our local, uh, parishes
and churches, then the ripple effects, that exercise,
that ripple effect will just, it can carry in
large ways. And that I think will, a church that's
less, um, a part of the solution of a church
that's less, uh, uh, irrelevant. Yeah. No, that's
so interesting. Cause I just think like, Sometimes
when churches think about oh, we're losing our
relevance. They think us we need to like Learn
the hip language of the youth. Yeah, or we need
to like talk about Minecraft or I don't know
whatever the quotes. Yeah, I am irrelevant because
I don't know what the kids are talking about
these days Minecraft. Yeah, okay Great like but
like we think like that's the like that's how
we be relevant. But actually What about the like
deeper human need? Mm -hmm for just like community.
Right? If the church is not meeting that basic
need, then we become irrelevant. Yeah. Because
like, actually, I think one of the things that
Jesus was all about was building community, being
in relationship, spending time just like getting
to know people and then like walking with them
on the path towards life. Yeah. And so like,
that's relevance. Yeah. So then the question
is, do I know, do I truly understand the plight
of my brother? Because if I do, I think this
is what he's getting at. If you do, then you
would understand why I've taken these actions.
I think what he's getting at, and he is Martin
Luther King Jr., I feel like, so rude saying
he. But what he's getting at in that is, it's
clear to me that while you're well -meaning,
And I like he said he starts things like I don't
even like usually comment on like criticism.
Yeah. But I I see you as as brothers. And I think
you're genuine. So I'm going to entertain you.
Yeah. But I'm also going to call you out and
say that you truly don't understand what that
people like him with what the Negro is experiencing
because you haven't actually taken the time to
to listen or to see us fully. Yeah. Because if
they were seeing them fully, they would see,
yeah, there's actually no space for them to actually
have this conversation or to create change. And
there's not enough people actually trying to
push that so that change can happen. Yeah. So
yeah, like, do we really know? And I don't think
I can answer for myself. I can say that I don't
truly know my figurative brother or sister as
well as I should do it. Like if I know someone
enough, I should know them enough to see their
painfully. Yeah. It shouldn't come as a surprise
when they make it known. Yeah. And yeah, I. I
don't think we exercise that anymore as a larger
society and that's echoed into our church or
now it's extended into the church. Yeah. Yeah.
Totally. Yeah. So I feel like we've covered a
wide range of things. There's a lot, a lot of
stuff to sort of pull out of this letter. So
I want us to sort of focus in on our last little
bit here, but like what's like one or two things
that you're like taking away from this letter
that you're like, this is like a point that I
want to focus on. So I think one of the things
for me is just recognizing that there is a lot
of fear and anger and yeah, mostly fear and anger,
but some hurt that that exists in our society
right now. And I want to It's not that I ignore
that, but it's so overwhelming that sometimes
I feel like I just am not keeping up. What I'm
reading, what I'm pulling out of this is just
that sense of how do I check in with the people
who are experiencing some of that? Not that I
need to be up on all of the news headlines or
all of the policy decisions. whatever is happening
in the world, but like, am I checking in with
my queer siblings? Am I checking in with the
people of color, the immigrants, the people that
I know who are afraid, who are hurting right
now? Because I think even if I can't fix it,
I can take some space to hold that, I think.
I'm challenged. There was a sermon that I listened
to this week where this pastor said he's overwhelmed
in relation to all the things that's happened
in this world as of recent. And I echo that.
I echo that. In many ways, I do feel overwhelmed
by what we see. But I'm also encouraged in knowing
the end of the story. that should give me, I
think, greater desire to usher that in. So in
reading his letter, I feel like I'm being called
into less complacency or neutrality and one that
chooses God every single moment. chooses the
perfect way, chooses the way that that that God
desires to seek justice, to love mercy, to walk
humbly. Like those are the ways that I think
if I could, yeah, all three of those altogether
at the same time. Yeah, because I even in my
own life, like when he was depicting like that,
those groups, I felt like I felt like he was
talking to me in many ways. And I'm like, okay,
When you have power, you should do something
with it. And Martin Luther King Jr. showed us
what he did with that power, with the influence
that he had and how he called people to see the
power that they had within them. Even people
that were extremely oppressed saw the power that
they had and they did something. And if they
could do that, then I should do that and I can
do that. because that's what God desires of us.
Knowing the whole story, but not feeling like,
okay, well, it's going to happen. Right. Yeah.
It's somewhere in between where it's a little
bit of an urgency, a little bit of a like, hey,
there's work to do, but not, hey, there's so
much work to do that it all falls on me. Yeah.
It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to fall on
me. Because in really in community we are in
relationship and We should we should be able
to do it together. Yeah, we're never doing it
alone Yeah, great letter totally letter totally.
Yeah. Yeah, just again, like I think I just keep
coming back to this like 60 year old letter that
like it still speaks. Yeah, and like I'm not
going to call it scripture because that seems
like a bit much, but in the same way that scripture
is this ancient thing that still speaks today,
this is a letter that still speaks today. Not
the Word of God, but I think God is speaking
through it. Yeah, yeah. And you know, like, 63,
1963, that's the year my dad was born. OK. So
it's not that he's not that old. It's not that
far. It's not that far. But it does put things
in context. Yes, like where we've where we've
gone, where we're going and what God has in store
for us. So, yeah, the arc of the moral universe
is long. It bends towards justice. Yeah, not
by itself. Not by itself. No, by the hand of
God and the work of God's people. Amen. Yes,
I like that. Very cool. Thank you so much. Thank
you. And thank you for tuning in to this week's
episode of Trinity Talks. Wherever you find yourself,
on any political spectrum, on any sense of fear
or joy or whatever's happening in the world,
I pray that God meets you there, and I pray that
you are able to find your calling to use the
power, the gifts that God has given you to do
God's work in the world. And we'll see you again
next week.