WEBVTT 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:06.339 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:09.259 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is 00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:13.179 Melissa. And I'm Justin. And we are here to continue 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:16.440 talking about the Beatitudes, the section that 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:20.199 opens Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, where he talks 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:21.920 about all the kinds of people who are blessed. 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:25.760 And today we're going to talk about peacemakers. 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:30.670 Hmm. Yes. So Jesus says, Blessed are the peacemakers, 00:00:30.769 --> 00:00:34.770 for they will be called children of God. Yes. 00:00:35.429 --> 00:00:38.689 That sounds nice. Yeah. Yeah, I like peace. I 00:00:38.689 --> 00:00:42.450 feel like liking peace is a pretty universal 00:00:42.450 --> 00:00:44.909 thing. How we get there is maybe debated. Until 00:00:44.909 --> 00:00:48.030 someone smacks you in the face. Right. Yes. Yes. 00:00:48.890 --> 00:00:54.049 So, what is a peacemaker? When Jesus says, blessed 00:00:54.049 --> 00:00:56.490 are the peacemakers, what do we think that he 00:00:56.490 --> 00:01:00.429 has in mind here? Well, when I think about a 00:01:00.429 --> 00:01:02.289 peacemaker, the first thing I think about is, 00:01:02.329 --> 00:01:05.450 like, maybe, like, UN, you know, like, people 00:01:05.450 --> 00:01:07.709 who go into, like, countries that are war -torn, 00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:10.150 who are going through really difficult, like, 00:01:10.189 --> 00:01:11.870 devastations, and they're just, like, you know, 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:14.650 trying to create peace, trying to, you know, 00:01:14.650 --> 00:01:17.750 say no to war, pacifists. That's usually what 00:01:17.750 --> 00:01:20.450 I think about a peacemaker. Okay. Fair. Yeah. 00:01:20.650 --> 00:01:23.230 Yeah. What about you? I guess, ironically, I 00:01:23.230 --> 00:01:27.299 think about a gun. Okay. I think in the Old West, 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:31.459 a gun was called a peacemaker. Lol. Okay. Yeah. 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:36.140 That might come from Ralphie in Christmas Story 00:01:36.140 --> 00:01:39.439 where he calls his gun his peacemaker, his air 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:43.879 rifle. Okay. That's probably not the right answer, 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:45.260 but that's what comes to mind. But that's what 00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:47.819 comes to mind. I mean, that's valid. Yeah. Okay. 00:01:47.939 --> 00:01:51.819 Yeah. So, yes, when I think of peacemaker, I 00:01:51.819 --> 00:01:53.799 would say something similar to what you said, 00:01:53.859 --> 00:01:58.480 Melissa, except that. These people, so the UN 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.659 or Canadian troops or whatever, aren't actually 00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:02.819 called peacemakers generally. They're called 00:02:02.819 --> 00:02:06.079 peacekeepers. Oh, right. The blue helmet guys? 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:11.180 Yeah. Yes. And I think there's a difference there 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:14.139 between someone who makes peace and someone who 00:02:14.139 --> 00:02:17.639 keeps peace. Maybe less so in the context of 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:20.620 the military. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not a 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.879 military person. But yeah, like when I think 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:30.530 about... A peacemaker. It's someone who, like, 00:02:30.569 --> 00:02:34.229 there's a very specific calling to do, to bring 00:02:34.229 --> 00:02:37.490 about something that's not there, probably. Right. 00:02:37.650 --> 00:02:41.229 Yeah. Whereas a peacekeeper, your job is a bit 00:02:41.229 --> 00:02:42.990 different in the sense that, like, you're sort 00:02:42.990 --> 00:02:46.210 of assuming that there's some level of peace 00:02:46.210 --> 00:02:48.669 there and your job is to, like, keep it, protect 00:02:48.669 --> 00:02:52.759 it. Right. Which is ironic, right? Because they 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:56.900 usually go into war zones. Yes. So there's not 00:02:56.900 --> 00:03:00.460 really peace there. No. But in the context of 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:04.199 this scripture passage, I think it's very interesting 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.340 that Jesus calls us to be peacemakers and not 00:03:07.340 --> 00:03:10.860 peacekeepers. Yes. Because keeping the peace 00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:17.099 sometimes means being passive. Right, yeah. Like 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:19.060 not rocking the boat. Like not rocking the boat 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:22.330 and just being like, this is all fine. Yeah. 00:03:22.409 --> 00:03:25.710 When maybe it's actually not fine. Whereas a 00:03:25.710 --> 00:03:29.810 peacemaker, sometimes you have to like do the 00:03:29.810 --> 00:03:33.409 hard thing in order for like true sort of peace 00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:35.810 to come about. Right. Yeah. I don't know. What 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:38.580 do you guys think about that distinction? That 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.039 that makes a lot of sense, because, yes, if you 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.580 have to make something, you then have to like 00:03:43.580 --> 00:03:47.819 take initiative to make it, which I think I guess 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:50.340 if I were to like juggle between these two, being 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:53.699 a peacekeeper might be, quote unquote, easier 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:55.620 than being a peacemaker, because, yeah, you just 00:03:55.620 --> 00:03:57.360 have to be a peacekeeper. You know, you don't 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.240 have to like do anything or. You know, if you're 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:03.379 going into a war -torn country, then it probably 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:05.560 means that there already is an idea of peace 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:07.360 that you're trying to achieve. Like, maybe if 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:08.860 you go into another country and you're like, 00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:11.319 I come from a country where there is no war, 00:04:11.379 --> 00:04:13.780 so maybe I want to replicate that in this country. 00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:15.520 But is that actually peace? I guess there's, 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:19.639 like, questions about that. But if, like, peacemaker, 00:04:19.740 --> 00:04:25.779 it's, like, a higher tier of peace. Sure. Yeah. 00:04:26.019 --> 00:04:29.670 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think. Consistent with 00:04:29.670 --> 00:04:31.069 the theme we've been talking about all these 00:04:31.069 --> 00:04:35.949 weeks is there's a cost involved in these things. 00:04:36.310 --> 00:04:40.910 Like it's costly to be meek. It's costly to hunger 00:04:40.910 --> 00:04:42.930 and thirst after righteousness. And it's costly 00:04:42.930 --> 00:04:48.550 to make peace when those around you are not interested 00:04:48.550 --> 00:04:53.290 in being peaceful. Right. You're sort of... you're 00:04:53.290 --> 00:04:56.670 once again refusing to play by the rules that 00:04:56.670 --> 00:04:59.310 are expected of you as a member of this fallen 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.050 world. Right. When someone, we've talked about 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:04.430 this with love of enemies, when someone wrongs 00:05:04.430 --> 00:05:08.189 you, the rules are you will get vengeance. Right. 00:05:08.290 --> 00:05:13.250 Yes. Or you'll nurse a grudge or you'll, you'll 00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:15.509 celebrate when they fail or something like that. 00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:18.949 And Jesus is saying, no, in the economy of my 00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:23.379 kingdom, you're going to opt out of that and 00:05:23.379 --> 00:05:26.439 make peace where it's expected that you will 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.500 make war. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.879 So, um, when Bonhoeffer talks about peacemakers, 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.019 he brings up like that point exactly and talks 00:05:36.019 --> 00:05:38.920 about like Jesus's road to being a peacemaker, 00:05:39.019 --> 00:05:41.639 like led him to the cross. Yeah. Right. And like 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.240 the cross is where Christ makes peace with the 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.060 world. Right. And so therefore as followers of 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:53.620 Christ, Like, peacemaking might lead us into 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:57.199 suffering, into death, into persecution of some 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:03.060 kind. Right, right. And I think it's just, I 00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:05.040 think when you put it, like, when you kind of, 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.699 like, look at it that way, you're kind of like, 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.019 well, why would I be a peacemaker, right? Why 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:12.399 wouldn't I fight back? Why wouldn't I, you know, 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.240 Jesus could have easily called down a legion 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.740 of angels, but he... did it he was like no like 00:06:19.740 --> 00:06:22.139 I'm going to go through this and he wasn't doing 00:06:22.139 --> 00:06:25.120 that making peace so I think again I guess I 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.300 think it's just like there's so much sacrifice 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.360 to it there's so much cost to it you think it's 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.100 like something that's really like nice but a 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:34.339 lot of it is like even just like sacrificing 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:36.439 your own pride too because there's definitely 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:39.259 times where I'm like I want to yell at someone 00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:41.519 I want to say something back that's probably 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.439 going to cause an argument and perhaps making 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.779 peace looks like just you know closing your mouth 00:06:46.779 --> 00:06:48.980 or even actively going to that person and being 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:52.240 like hey have a great day even though you just 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.420 wish that i would not have a great day um there's 00:06:55.420 --> 00:07:00.319 a lot of sacrificing of self yeah yeah it's interesting 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:02.740 i've been i was kind of dreading this one because 00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:05.470 i've been sort of um Popping little political 00:07:05.470 --> 00:07:07.610 points in the middle of this, because I think 00:07:07.610 --> 00:07:09.370 the Sermon on the Mount is very political. Sure. 00:07:09.569 --> 00:07:11.569 So I was like, oh, man, I'm going to go off on 00:07:11.569 --> 00:07:13.649 this one. And I have to like hold myself back. 00:07:13.709 --> 00:07:17.149 But then I read Martin Luther, his commentary 00:07:17.149 --> 00:07:20.829 on this. OK. Luther was a reformer, a Protestant 00:07:20.829 --> 00:07:23.149 reformer in the 16th century. And he wrote a 00:07:23.149 --> 00:07:25.709 series of sermons on the Sermon on the Mount. 00:07:26.750 --> 00:07:28.410 And he, you know, he did make the point that 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:31.230 we're making, right, that we kind of have a pacifist 00:07:31.230 --> 00:07:34.019 impulse as Christians or we should. But then 00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:35.879 he kind of goes into the personal relational 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:39.040 part of it, where he's saying, like, when someone 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:42.579 comes to you and is gossiping about a friend, 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:45.779 you have a choice. Are you going to exacerbate 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:49.720 this relational, this invitation to relational 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:52.959 breakdown? Right. Or are you going to make peace? 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.839 Okay. Right. So if someone's like, man, this 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.079 person at work is so annoying. They screwed up 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.699 another project, et cetera. Your choice is to 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:06.660 be like. yeah they suck or you know i think they 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:08.500 have some good qualities too though they might 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:09.920 have messed up and you know you're sort of like 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.319 dampening the fire that's about that could erupt 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:15.740 at any moment i was really surprised by that 00:08:15.740 --> 00:08:20.139 yeah right that that um we think in terms of 00:08:20.139 --> 00:08:22.160 peacemaking as i'm going to refuse to take up 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.019 arms or you know the early church was pacifist 00:08:26.019 --> 00:08:27.439 for hundreds of years they wouldn't fight in 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.139 wars or be soldiers or anything But he's saying, 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:33.240 yeah, the insidious part of the temptation to 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:36.919 not be a peacemaker is you want to join in with 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.720 those who are rabble rousing. Right. Or stirring 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.580 the pot or something like that. And he's like, 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.580 a Christian is one who stops that, stops it in 00:08:45.580 --> 00:08:47.919 his tracks and actually tries to work towards 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:50.139 relational reconciliation, even in those small 00:08:50.139 --> 00:08:53.200 moments. Right. Which was convicting for me. 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:56.960 Yeah. Yeah. And even just like that, like, you 00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:58.980 know how we're talking about how Jesus being 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:02.039 a peacemaker led him to the cross. I guess, of 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.519 course, in a less extreme example. But when we 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:08.440 do say no to social things like gossiping or 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.759 like talking about someone, you know, sometimes 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:12.419 when someone's saying those things like, oh, 00:09:12.460 --> 00:09:14.220 my gosh, that person's so annoying. They did 00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:16.440 this. they say that to you, they kind of want 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.919 to hear a bit of external validation back. Right. 00:09:20.019 --> 00:09:21.500 But then when you're not giving that to them, 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.080 that could mean that you could lose friends. 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.500 You could be, you could not be part of the group. 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.779 You know, you might be on your own because you're 00:09:28.779 --> 00:09:32.179 choosing to say, actually, I don't want to engage 00:09:32.179 --> 00:09:35.120 in tearing someone down. I'm sorry. Even if that 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.220 means that, you know, no one comes to you again 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:40.580 when they're like complaining or just whatever. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.240 And you got to think too, that that's the seeds 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:47.460 that create, The big blow ups. True. A culture 00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:51.320 of backbiting and a culture of slander is what 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.000 leads to a breakdown of trust, which leads to 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.500 the macro things. Right. So it starts with me 00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:01.779 being skeptical of my foreign neighbor. In this 00:10:01.779 --> 00:10:05.960 case, I am the foreigner. But, you know, and 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.879 then that gets ballooned into a larger scapegoating 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.340 of a group which balloons into we got to take 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:14.639 this country over or, you know. Um, so I thought 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.820 Luther was very smart to say like, nip it in 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:20.279 the bud, you know, before things get out of hand. 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.759 Yeah. And I think like all of this makes me think 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.840 about like the quality or the kind of piece that 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.440 we're like going for here feels really important. 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:39.409 Um, and so the. The Greek word, in my understanding, 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:46.830 is irene, for peace, which roughly correlates 00:10:46.830 --> 00:10:49.049 to my favorite Hebrew word, which is shalom. 00:10:49.289 --> 00:10:52.269 Yes. It also correlates to my favorite Rastafarian 00:10:52.269 --> 00:10:56.639 word, which is ire. Okay. Yeah. From Bob Marley. 00:10:56.700 --> 00:11:00.519 Very cool. So Shalom, one of the reasons that 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:04.080 I love it so much is because it does, yes, mean 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.919 peace, but it's actually like a much bigger vision 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:10.720 than that. Like it's wholeness. It's justice. 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:14.840 It's like all of the good things that I would 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:20.960 wish for in the world is Shalom. And so then 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.519 when we're talking about. Being peacemakers people 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:27.740 who are called to create or to participate in 00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:29.940 bringing about Shalom because I don't think we 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.879 do it ourselves But who are called to bring about 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.039 Shalom through the work of God like we are not 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:38.700 just talking about Oh, Melissa, and I get along. 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:42.159 Yeah, it's like no actually like I care for you 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:46.669 you care for me there is like reciprocal relationship 00:11:46.669 --> 00:11:49.610 here and we are working towards a bigger like 00:11:49.610 --> 00:11:52.870 society that also embodies that the way the way 00:11:52.870 --> 00:11:55.830 that's classically put right is um peace is not 00:11:55.830 --> 00:11:57.909 the absence of injustice but it's the positive 00:11:57.909 --> 00:12:01.529 pursuit of justice right yeah yeah and that's 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:04.350 cool that feels really important to me when we're 00:12:04.350 --> 00:12:05.929 thinking about like what does it mean to be a 00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:08.429 peacemaker we're not just called to like end 00:12:08.429 --> 00:12:12.090 conflict we're called to do something in its 00:12:12.090 --> 00:12:15.889 place yeah that is better And I think it's like 00:12:15.889 --> 00:12:19.470 because God is love. And since it's saying that 00:12:19.470 --> 00:12:21.590 the peacemakers will be, you know, children of 00:12:21.590 --> 00:12:25.169 God. Yes, it's like smooth transition. Thank 00:12:25.169 --> 00:12:29.909 you. There's just like when you're doing the 00:12:29.909 --> 00:12:32.690 active work of peacemaking, because I think we 00:12:32.690 --> 00:12:34.509 talked about how it's not a passive thing is 00:12:34.509 --> 00:12:37.940 it is an active thing. You really have to choose 00:12:37.940 --> 00:12:40.759 love. It really has to come from a place of love 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:44.840 and like caring, because if you don't, you know, 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:48.039 love that person or see that person as a child 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.000 of God made in God's image, then it's like, well, 00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:53.080 why wouldn't I talk terribly about you? Because 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.240 you also annoyed me, too. Right. You really have 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.000 to come from a place of love and care and loving 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.159 thy neighbor and also loving God, too, because 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.299 at the end of the day, no matter who annoys us, 00:13:03.379 --> 00:13:07.309 they are still made in the image of God. Which 00:13:07.309 --> 00:13:09.889 is hard. Yeah. Image bearers can be annoying 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:12.929 sometimes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Definitely. 00:13:14.370 --> 00:13:16.929 The other thing that I think about like in this 00:13:16.929 --> 00:13:23.090 in this context is so Jesus is speaking to Jewish 00:13:23.090 --> 00:13:27.110 people living in a Roman occupation. And the 00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:31.549 Roman Empire is like folks will talk about like 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:34.610 the Pax Romana, the idea of Roman peace. And 00:13:34.610 --> 00:13:38.620 so there is a. a peace that the Roman Empire 00:13:38.620 --> 00:13:43.019 has proclaimed. Well, that the Roman Empire has 00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:44.919 crushed all its enemies so there's no opposition 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:47.460 anymore. Right, exactly. So this is the kind 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:51.759 of peace that folks are ostensibly living under. 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:55.980 But Jesus says we still need peacemakers because 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:58.059 that's not actually the kind of peace that we're 00:13:58.059 --> 00:14:03.080 going for here. Wait, wait. I think it makes 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:04.919 me think about how just throughout this entire 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.799 series and like Justin said about how like this 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:11.840 is like the kingdom that is to come. This is 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.940 what God's kingdom will look like. I think, you 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:18.000 know, when I just look through history, but even 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.980 just like today, sometimes making peace can feel 00:14:21.980 --> 00:14:25.259 a little bit impossible. It can feel a little 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:30.809 bit like, how do we do that? And, you know. How 00:14:30.809 --> 00:14:32.789 do we do that so that other people aren't getting 00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:35.009 hurt? You know, because there's also that element 00:14:35.009 --> 00:14:38.029 too, especially when it comes to wars and things 00:14:38.029 --> 00:14:45.009 like that. Yeah. Yeah. Could I say something 00:14:45.009 --> 00:14:46.889 about the children bit? Yes. I don't know. This 00:14:46.889 --> 00:14:50.309 might be exegetically helpful. Okay. Bible study 00:14:50.309 --> 00:14:53.610 -ish helpful. Yes. Whenever you see children 00:14:53.610 --> 00:14:57.490 of or sons of, it used to be translated. In the 00:14:57.490 --> 00:14:59.690 ancient Near East, like the sons of Israel, like 00:14:59.690 --> 00:15:04.250 the Ben Israel. It means that you're called a 00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:06.570 son of something or a child of something when 00:15:06.570 --> 00:15:08.429 you take on the characteristics of that thing. 00:15:09.029 --> 00:15:12.509 Okay. Right. So later on, Jesus is yelling at 00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:14.169 the scribes and Pharisees and saying, like, you're 00:15:14.169 --> 00:15:16.909 actually sons of the devil because you're doing 00:15:16.909 --> 00:15:19.970 the stuff the devil is doing. Right. Right. So 00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:23.129 when Jesus says, if you're a peacemaker, you're 00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:26.559 a son of God or a child of God. He's saying you 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.279 will take on the qualities that God has. So it's 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:30.799 kind of like what you were saying about God being 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.600 love. You're identifying yourself as a proper 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.120 child of God when you do things that God does 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:38.320 and you do things that Christ does specifically. 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:40.559 So I think that when you bring that in, it's 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.460 got this nice balance of that active, I'm going 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:46.690 to make peace. But really what I'm doing is reflecting 00:15:46.690 --> 00:15:49.490 something that's outside of myself. I'm taking 00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:52.610 on the character qualities of the one I'm following, 00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:55.289 which is Christ. So it's not just sort of, I 00:15:55.289 --> 00:15:58.610 mean, the whole game with the Beatitudes is to 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:03.700 not turn it into an excessive. kind of law. Yeah. 00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:05.759 Right. You got to do these things. And if you 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.379 do them, then God's going to reward you. No, 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.379 it's like you're doing these things because you're 00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:11.399 a citizen of the kingdom. Right. Because you're 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:13.019 following Christ. You're a peacemaker because 00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:15.559 the one you follow is the ultimate peacemaker. 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.799 Yeah. Yeah. So like Jesus has blessed the peacemakers 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:20.379 for they will be called children of God. And 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:22.100 that makes it sound like if you're a peacemaker, 00:16:22.179 --> 00:16:24.019 you become a child of God. But actually, the 00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:27.320 opposite is also true. Yeah. You are a child 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.159 of God and therefore you will be a peacemaker. 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:32.399 Yeah. And in fact, I mean, the alternative of 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:35.159 that is. you know the the scribes and the pharisees 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:36.779 at the time they're like we're sons of abraham 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:39.639 right and jesus is like you're not sons of abraham 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:41.259 because you're not doing the stuff that abraham 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:43.659 did right even if you're ethnically the sons 00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:46.980 of abraham sure you're not sort of earning that 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:49.679 title or reflecting that title yeah right so 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:51.460 if you're not a peacemaker and you're calling 00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:55.820 yourself a follower of christ Maybe you might 00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:58.299 be in the danger zone. And there's plenty of 00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:00.100 examples throughout history of Christians being 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:03.100 of people taking the name of Christ as their 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:07.039 identity and not doing Christlike stuff. And 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.599 that's a big reveal. Yes. According to the Beatitudes. 00:17:10.779 --> 00:17:14.339 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it then reminds me of, 00:17:14.539 --> 00:17:17.480 you know, like later on in the sermon. I think 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:19.880 towards the end, Jesus talks about, you know, 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:22.019 there'll be all of these false leaders and things 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:24.160 and there'll be like wolves in sheep's clothing. 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.980 And how do you know the difference? Yeah. By 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:28.799 their fruit. By their fruit, you will know them. 00:17:28.819 --> 00:17:31.559 That's right. Yeah. So like the leaders who actually 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.440 are following Jesus will have good fruit and 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.160 the leaders who are not following Christ will 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.819 not. Yeah. And so like, if you just look at that, 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.579 are they being peacemakers? Are they like being 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:44.220 meek? Are they doing all of these things? Like, 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.089 is that the outcome of their life? Then, Great. 00:17:47.150 --> 00:17:50.390 Yeah. Not like maybe they're not the people that 00:17:50.390 --> 00:17:53.309 we should be emulating. Yeah. Right. I also think 00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:57.730 like, you know how like it's like we love because 00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:02.309 Jesus loved like Jesus. He is in kind of like 00:18:02.309 --> 00:18:06.259 a logistical like. I hope that's the right word, 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.220 but it's like Jesus is a peacemaker because through 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:13.480 his actions of dying for our sins, he has made 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.740 us like children of God, like God has adopted 00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:20.140 us as his children. And so in a way, it's kind 00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:23.819 of like Jesus literally is a peacemaker who made 00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:26.799 us children of God. So then it's like we also 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:31.940 will be peacemakers as well. Yeah. Yeah, totally. 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:38.289 Totally. So. I want to bring this into conversation 00:18:38.289 --> 00:18:40.450 with another piece of scripture, because later 00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:43.809 in Matthew's gospel, Jesus says, I did not come 00:18:43.809 --> 00:18:48.210 to bring peace, but to bring a sword. This seems 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:51.450 challenging to me in the context of Jesus telling 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:54.029 us to go forth and be peacemakers. Now, is there 00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:55.809 a way we can bring these two things together? 00:18:55.890 --> 00:18:59.910 I think so. I hope so. But like initially, when 00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:01.829 you like put those two things together, like 00:19:01.829 --> 00:19:04.900 what are. What are the thoughts that you have 00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:07.799 there? Definitely when I put those two scriptures 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.519 together, I'm like, wait, what are you talking 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.319 about? You know, it's like, do I bring peace? 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.019 Because if we're supposed to emulate Jesus and 00:19:20.019 --> 00:19:23.220 be peacemakers, then... Jesus came to bring a 00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:26.759 sword. So then it definitely is confusing. And 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.500 then later on in the gospels, Jesus tells Peter, 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:34.079 put away your sword. This is a lot of sword flinging 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.140 potentially happening here. Well, I have some 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:43.259 thoughts on it. So I think, I think what it means 00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:47.740 in that passage is that the kingdom of God has 00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:51.190 not been fully revealed yet. Right. So remember 00:19:51.190 --> 00:19:53.289 we talked about at some point, I can't remember 00:19:53.289 --> 00:19:58.329 how Jesus and his followers don't fit. Yes. Right. 00:19:58.410 --> 00:20:00.509 They're like puzzle pieces that don't fit. Yeah. 00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:04.910 Right. So so there's conflict that is created 00:20:04.910 --> 00:20:07.869 when you have what's called in philosophy, like 00:20:07.869 --> 00:20:11.029 a surd, like a weird thing that doesn't fit. 00:20:11.769 --> 00:20:15.410 And I think that's what Jesus is saying. I didn't 00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:18.569 come to sort of endorse the way things are. I 00:20:18.569 --> 00:20:21.430 came to show an alternative vision of reality. 00:20:22.190 --> 00:20:24.369 And that means when you face me, you're going 00:20:24.369 --> 00:20:26.390 to have to choose. Do I want to continue living 00:20:26.390 --> 00:20:29.269 in this old way? Right. Or do I want to live 00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:32.769 into this new kingdom? And by sword, I think 00:20:32.769 --> 00:20:35.170 he means like dividing. Right. Right. Because 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:36.950 later he says, the next verse says something 00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:39.859 like, I've come to. to divide households, right? 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:43.720 Mothers from kids and fathers from everybody, 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:46.579 brothers from brothers, right? He's saying like, 00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:48.500 you could go along in your merry way because 00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:50.640 you're all living in the same world. Right. And 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.640 now there's an alternative there, right? It's 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:55.220 that line from Bonhoeffer that I keep quoting, 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:56.799 right? When you come across Jesus, you have two 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.039 options. You either follow him or kill him. Right. 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:01.740 And some people are going to choose to follow 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.319 him and some people are going to choose to kill 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:05.200 him. And based on that choice, there's going 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.380 to be separation between those people. I don't 00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:12.039 think he means I've come to arm my disciples 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:17.220 to take everything by force. Yeah. I think he's 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.940 saying I naturally throw things out of whack 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:24.259 and force you to choose where you could have. 00:21:24.829 --> 00:21:28.730 been passive before yeah yeah and i also think 00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:31.369 because i i first of all that's really really 00:21:31.369 --> 00:21:33.269 cool i never thought of it that way but it's 00:21:33.269 --> 00:21:35.470 like you know it's not a sword to like hurt people 00:21:35.470 --> 00:21:37.750 it's not a sword to kill but it's a sword to 00:21:37.750 --> 00:21:40.450 kind of like divide and have people choose which 00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:43.390 side are you going to be on you know and the 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.470 other thing too is like he's like saying I didn't 00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:47.930 come to bring peace. It's like, well, what kind 00:21:47.930 --> 00:21:49.490 of peace are you talking about? Cause there is, 00:21:49.549 --> 00:21:51.910 you know, like we've mentioned the peacemaking 00:21:51.910 --> 00:21:53.849 where you're actively trying to like make the 00:21:53.849 --> 00:21:56.349 world a better place. Sometimes you can also 00:21:56.349 --> 00:21:59.029 think of peace, you know, as appeasing someone. 00:21:59.289 --> 00:22:02.569 You just kind of want to be like. oh, yeah, say 00:22:02.569 --> 00:22:04.289 whatever you want, do whatever you want. But 00:22:04.289 --> 00:22:06.789 I won't engage because if I engage, then there 00:22:06.789 --> 00:22:08.990 might be a fight. So my way of peacekeeping is 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:12.910 to just, you know, stay back. And in that context, 00:22:12.990 --> 00:22:15.170 it's like Jesus is saying, like, don't be on 00:22:15.170 --> 00:22:17.309 the fence. Don't just sit there to appease. You 00:22:17.309 --> 00:22:19.829 have to choose if you're going to follow me, 00:22:19.930 --> 00:22:22.430 if you're not going to follow me. And that is 00:22:22.430 --> 00:22:24.990 that source. I think that's really cool. Yeah. 00:22:25.690 --> 00:22:28.789 No, I think that's a helpful way to sort of think 00:22:28.789 --> 00:22:31.920 about it. Which also, I mean, the negative side 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.859 is beware of Christians who seem to fit hand 00:22:35.859 --> 00:22:39.099 in glove with the way the world is going. Sure. 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:43.200 Yes. Right? Because a choice is always made. 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.420 Yes. Right? As the patron saints of Canada, Rush, 00:22:46.579 --> 00:22:48.539 once said, right? If you choose not to decide, 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.779 you still have made a choice. Right. I'm assuming 00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:54.539 you don't know that song, but the Gen X and boomers 00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:56.539 will know what I'm talking about. Right. I'm 00:22:56.539 --> 00:23:03.740 happy for you all. Um, yeah. And I mean, I think, 00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:07.380 so yes, all of that context sort of came to mind 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:09.339 for me. The other thing that came to mind for 00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:14.039 me in this metaphor of a sword is that like the 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:18.640 person holding the sword matters in some sense. 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:22.519 Like, like Christ is yes. The Christ sword is 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.859 like dividing us in some sense, but like, I don't 00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:29.890 get to wield this sword. I don't get to say who's 00:23:29.890 --> 00:23:33.049 in, who's out. I don't get to decide who's ear 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.369 to chop off. Yes. Like all of this stuff. Right. 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:41.170 And here's the thing. Even if Jesus did come 00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:43.369 down to be like, I actually have bought a sword 00:23:43.369 --> 00:23:46.829 to arm my disciples and to sling and do whatever 00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:50.640 I want. Technically, it's like. he can because 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:55.000 he is god like who are we as mere human beings 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.279 to ever tell god actually you being a sword is 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.559 not peaceful and god's like what do you know 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.880 about peace um i created peace um and i think 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.220 again like you know we are very very like fortunate 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:11.720 that we have such a loving god who does not want 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:14.920 us to be hurt and who wants us to you know come 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.740 to him and like rely on him but it's like yeah 00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:20.130 like If anyone's going to wield a sword, it should 00:24:20.130 --> 00:24:22.829 be Jesus and only Jesus and no one else. Yes. 00:24:22.869 --> 00:24:25.029 In Revelation 19, he comes back with a sword. 00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:30.549 Yeah. But, oh, I can't remember what I was going 00:24:30.549 --> 00:24:38.490 to say, but yes, great point. Thanks. So how 00:24:38.490 --> 00:24:42.390 does this beatitude, blessed are the peacemakers 00:24:42.390 --> 00:24:43.750 for they will be called children of God. How 00:24:43.750 --> 00:24:46.500 does this fit in with all of the other? with, 00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:50.799 you know, being poor in spirit, being meek. I 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.279 think as we talked about this, you know, peacemaking 00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:56.279 might lead us to the cross, then it therefore 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.839 naturally leads into the last beatitude, where 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.819 we talk about persecution. Yeah, I mean, I think 00:25:01.819 --> 00:25:09.119 they're all about embracing being weird. because 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.539 the kingdom doesn't fit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:14.339 um, you know, like keep Portland weird, like 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:17.440 keep the kingdom of heaven weird. Like when the 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.920 kingdom of heaven starts to fit, we're in trouble. 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:22.720 Yeah. Right. When you, when you just weren't 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.400 just an alternative politic in the world, just 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.039 like anything else, you know, we're not competing. 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.420 I always put it this way. We're not competing 00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:33.019 for space in the world. Yeah. Right. Because 00:25:33.019 --> 00:25:35.039 our kingdom is coming and Christ has already 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.430 proclaimed victory. We have the freedom to do 00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:41.990 these things. Yep. Right. In a way that, you 00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:44.609 know, the freedom of the confidence of the impending 00:25:44.609 --> 00:25:48.269 kingdom of God gives us. So that's how I read 00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:50.329 all of them. That's why they're, they're, they're 00:25:50.329 --> 00:25:54.509 not just orders. Sure. They're a picture of something, 00:25:54.529 --> 00:25:57.730 but it's a picture with a, that come with a challenge. 00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:00.210 And the challenge is Jesus being like, are you 00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:03.069 going to follow me? Right. yes and if you are 00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:05.869 actually live this out yeah yeah yeah he's not 00:26:05.869 --> 00:26:08.750 interested in again it's not um oh gosh i'm gonna 00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:11.650 sound like a youth pastor from the 90s but he's 00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:15.269 not about making a religion you know yeah um 00:26:15.269 --> 00:26:18.009 he's saying like this is the this is a way right 00:26:18.009 --> 00:26:19.509 remember christians were called followers of 00:26:19.509 --> 00:26:23.880 the way early on yeah and i feel like I like 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.759 that you mentioned how the Beatitudes, they aren't 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.440 just like a law or like rules for someone to 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.900 follow. It is like a way of living because then 00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:34.380 and it's also an aspect of like you have to constantly 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:37.960 ask God to be like, OK, God, you said to be a 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:39.920 peacemaker so that I can be, you know, children 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.519 of God. How do I do that? What does that look 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:44.579 like in this situation? It's not like he's saying 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:47.559 that on this very specific day, if you make this 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.440 decision, you are a peacemaker. And with the 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.259 rest of the Beatitudes as well, it's like, you 00:26:53.259 --> 00:26:55.200 know, it's like blessed are the meek. Okay, God, 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.559 what does that mean to be meek? How do I be meek 00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:00.960 in this situation in my life? And I think it's 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.769 just. you know, when we focus on the relationship 00:27:03.769 --> 00:27:06.930 aspects instead of the religion aspect, the Beatitudes 00:27:06.930 --> 00:27:08.430 are really highlighting that because we can't 00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:10.329 do any of these things that Jesus is calling 00:27:10.329 --> 00:27:13.430 us to do without the Holy Spirit, without God 00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:17.069 telling us and teaching us and guiding us. Yeah, 00:27:17.170 --> 00:27:22.750 totally. Yeah. It's very much this like whole 00:27:22.750 --> 00:27:30.599 life thing. And following Jesus is, Weird in 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:35.279 more ways than one, but it's, it's weird in this 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.779 moment in a sense that like we are called to 00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:42.119 do a thing, but also to not worry about doing 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:46.700 it. Yeah. Right. Like we are called to be peacemakers 00:27:46.700 --> 00:27:49.200 and at the same time, trust that God has already 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.599 made peace and God is making peace. Yes. Right. 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:58.019 Yeah. It makes you more relaxed. You're acting 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.519 for something that's already, been accomplished 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.839 yeah um yeah so i don't have to freak out when 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:08.380 i'm my peace is not coming to yeah i mean i think 00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:10.660 the same thing in the church when when jesus 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.380 says the gates of hell will not prevail against 00:28:12.380 --> 00:28:14.259 the church right right in the church sometimes 00:28:14.259 --> 00:28:17.119 we freak out all the time because of numerical 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:22.200 decline or whatever yeah and uh but you don't 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.420 have to worry The fate of the church isn't in 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:27.440 your hands. Jesus said you're going to win. So 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.619 chill. Literally, thank God. The fate of the 00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:35.680 church is not in my hands. Yeah. Yeah. So it 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.180 frees you to do risky, incredible things and 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:42.180 not worry. It frees you to follow Christ. Yeah. 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:46.650 Right? Yeah. And I, you know, I just. Always 00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:49.029 think about that quote. It's not from the Bible. 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:50.930 I think I got it from TikTok, where it's like, 00:28:50.950 --> 00:28:53.630 who do you think you are that you're that powerful 00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:57.250 that you can derail God's plans, right? And that, 00:28:57.309 --> 00:29:01.650 I think, makes peace within myself, too. You 00:29:01.650 --> 00:29:05.730 have a more holy FYP than I do on TikTok. Oh, 00:29:05.869 --> 00:29:17.619 never mind. Mine is far sillier. Yes. So, blessed 00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:23.339 are the peacemakers. People who aren't just like 00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:25.619 passively sitting around waiting for peace to 00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:28.740 happen, but will work for it. Will work for that 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:33.480 justice and wholeness and reconciliation. Even 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.420 when it leads you to the cross. Because that's 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:40.119 what Jesus did. So when we do that, we are children 00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:44.029 of God. We are followers of Christ. I guess it's 00:29:44.029 --> 00:29:46.210 not a gun then. Just our job. I don't think so, 00:29:46.349 --> 00:29:49.210 unfortunately. Sorry, Ralphie. Or fortunately. 00:29:49.329 --> 00:29:50.730 I don't know. I don't really want to wield a 00:29:50.730 --> 00:29:53.710 gun, but somebody might. And if that's you, I'm 00:29:53.710 --> 00:30:00.509 sorry, I guess. Scary. Yeah. Well, thank you, 00:30:00.509 --> 00:30:03.589 folks, for this conversation. And thank you for 00:30:03.589 --> 00:30:06.509 tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. 00:30:07.190 --> 00:30:10.000 Go out and make peace. Whatever that looks like 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.140 in your life, whatever the challenging places 00:30:12.140 --> 00:30:15.279 are that need some of that wholeness and reconciliation 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:19.480 and love, go there and do that in the power of 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:21.480 Christ. And we'll see you next week.