Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is
Melissa. And I'm Justin. And we are here to continue
talking about the Beatitudes, the section that
opens Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, where he talks
about all the kinds of people who are blessed.
And today we're going to talk about peacemakers.
Hmm. Yes. So Jesus says, Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God. Yes.
That sounds nice. Yeah. Yeah, I like peace. I
feel like liking peace is a pretty universal
thing. How we get there is maybe debated. Until
someone smacks you in the face. Right. Yes. Yes.
So, what is a peacemaker? When Jesus says, blessed
are the peacemakers, what do we think that he
has in mind here? Well, when I think about a
peacemaker, the first thing I think about is,
like, maybe, like, UN, you know, like, people
who go into, like, countries that are war -torn,
who are going through really difficult, like,
devastations, and they're just, like, you know,
trying to create peace, trying to, you know,
say no to war, pacifists. That's usually what
I think about a peacemaker. Okay. Fair. Yeah.
Yeah. What about you? I guess, ironically, I
think about a gun. Okay. I think in the Old West,
a gun was called a peacemaker. Lol. Okay. Yeah.
That might come from Ralphie in Christmas Story
where he calls his gun his peacemaker, his air
rifle. Okay. That's probably not the right answer,
but that's what comes to mind. But that's what
comes to mind. I mean, that's valid. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So, yes, when I think of peacemaker, I
would say something similar to what you said,
Melissa, except that. These people, so the UN
or Canadian troops or whatever, aren't actually
called peacemakers generally. They're called
peacekeepers. Oh, right. The blue helmet guys?
Yeah. Yes. And I think there's a difference there
between someone who makes peace and someone who
keeps peace. Maybe less so in the context of
the military. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not a
military person. But yeah, like when I think
about... A peacemaker. It's someone who, like,
there's a very specific calling to do, to bring
about something that's not there, probably. Right.
Yeah. Whereas a peacekeeper, your job is a bit
different in the sense that, like, you're sort
of assuming that there's some level of peace
there and your job is to, like, keep it, protect
it. Right. Which is ironic, right? Because they
usually go into war zones. Yes. So there's not
really peace there. No. But in the context of
this scripture passage, I think it's very interesting
that Jesus calls us to be peacemakers and not
peacekeepers. Yes. Because keeping the peace
sometimes means being passive. Right, yeah. Like
not rocking the boat. Like not rocking the boat
and just being like, this is all fine. Yeah.
When maybe it's actually not fine. Whereas a
peacemaker, sometimes you have to like do the
hard thing in order for like true sort of peace
to come about. Right. Yeah. I don't know. What
do you guys think about that distinction? That
that makes a lot of sense, because, yes, if you
have to make something, you then have to like
take initiative to make it, which I think I guess
if I were to like juggle between these two, being
a peacekeeper might be, quote unquote, easier
than being a peacemaker, because, yeah, you just
have to be a peacekeeper. You know, you don't
have to like do anything or. You know, if you're
going into a war -torn country, then it probably
means that there already is an idea of peace
that you're trying to achieve. Like, maybe if
you go into another country and you're like,
I come from a country where there is no war,
so maybe I want to replicate that in this country.
But is that actually peace? I guess there's,
like, questions about that. But if, like, peacemaker,
it's, like, a higher tier of peace. Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think. Consistent with
the theme we've been talking about all these
weeks is there's a cost involved in these things.
Like it's costly to be meek. It's costly to hunger
and thirst after righteousness. And it's costly
to make peace when those around you are not interested
in being peaceful. Right. You're sort of... you're
once again refusing to play by the rules that
are expected of you as a member of this fallen
world. Right. When someone, we've talked about
this with love of enemies, when someone wrongs
you, the rules are you will get vengeance. Right.
Yes. Or you'll nurse a grudge or you'll, you'll
celebrate when they fail or something like that.
And Jesus is saying, no, in the economy of my
kingdom, you're going to opt out of that and
make peace where it's expected that you will
make war. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.
So, um, when Bonhoeffer talks about peacemakers,
he brings up like that point exactly and talks
about like Jesus's road to being a peacemaker,
like led him to the cross. Yeah. Right. And like
the cross is where Christ makes peace with the
world. Right. And so therefore as followers of
Christ, Like, peacemaking might lead us into
suffering, into death, into persecution of some
kind. Right, right. And I think it's just, I
think when you put it, like, when you kind of,
like, look at it that way, you're kind of like,
well, why would I be a peacemaker, right? Why
wouldn't I fight back? Why wouldn't I, you know,
Jesus could have easily called down a legion
of angels, but he... did it he was like no like
I'm going to go through this and he wasn't doing
that making peace so I think again I guess I
think it's just like there's so much sacrifice
to it there's so much cost to it you think it's
like something that's really like nice but a
lot of it is like even just like sacrificing
your own pride too because there's definitely
times where I'm like I want to yell at someone
I want to say something back that's probably
going to cause an argument and perhaps making
peace looks like just you know closing your mouth
or even actively going to that person and being
like hey have a great day even though you just
wish that i would not have a great day um there's
a lot of sacrificing of self yeah yeah it's interesting
i've been i was kind of dreading this one because
i've been sort of um Popping little political
points in the middle of this, because I think
the Sermon on the Mount is very political. Sure.
So I was like, oh, man, I'm going to go off on
this one. And I have to like hold myself back.
But then I read Martin Luther, his commentary
on this. OK. Luther was a reformer, a Protestant
reformer in the 16th century. And he wrote a
series of sermons on the Sermon on the Mount.
And he, you know, he did make the point that
we're making, right, that we kind of have a pacifist
impulse as Christians or we should. But then
he kind of goes into the personal relational
part of it, where he's saying, like, when someone
comes to you and is gossiping about a friend,
you have a choice. Are you going to exacerbate
this relational, this invitation to relational
breakdown? Right. Or are you going to make peace?
Okay. Right. So if someone's like, man, this
person at work is so annoying. They screwed up
another project, et cetera. Your choice is to
be like. yeah they suck or you know i think they
have some good qualities too though they might
have messed up and you know you're sort of like
dampening the fire that's about that could erupt
at any moment i was really surprised by that
yeah right that that um we think in terms of
peacemaking as i'm going to refuse to take up
arms or you know the early church was pacifist
for hundreds of years they wouldn't fight in
wars or be soldiers or anything But he's saying,
yeah, the insidious part of the temptation to
not be a peacemaker is you want to join in with
those who are rabble rousing. Right. Or stirring
the pot or something like that. And he's like,
a Christian is one who stops that, stops it in
his tracks and actually tries to work towards
relational reconciliation, even in those small
moments. Right. Which was convicting for me.
Yeah. Yeah. And even just like that, like, you
know how we're talking about how Jesus being
a peacemaker led him to the cross. I guess, of
course, in a less extreme example. But when we
do say no to social things like gossiping or
like talking about someone, you know, sometimes
when someone's saying those things like, oh,
my gosh, that person's so annoying. They did
this. they say that to you, they kind of want
to hear a bit of external validation back. Right.
But then when you're not giving that to them,
that could mean that you could lose friends.
You could be, you could not be part of the group.
You know, you might be on your own because you're
choosing to say, actually, I don't want to engage
in tearing someone down. I'm sorry. Even if that
means that, you know, no one comes to you again
when they're like complaining or just whatever.
And you got to think too, that that's the seeds
that create, The big blow ups. True. A culture
of backbiting and a culture of slander is what
leads to a breakdown of trust, which leads to
the macro things. Right. So it starts with me
being skeptical of my foreign neighbor. In this
case, I am the foreigner. But, you know, and
then that gets ballooned into a larger scapegoating
of a group which balloons into we got to take
this country over or, you know. Um, so I thought
Luther was very smart to say like, nip it in
the bud, you know, before things get out of hand.
Yeah. And I think like all of this makes me think
about like the quality or the kind of piece that
we're like going for here feels really important.
Um, and so the. The Greek word, in my understanding,
is irene, for peace, which roughly correlates
to my favorite Hebrew word, which is shalom.
Yes. It also correlates to my favorite Rastafarian
word, which is ire. Okay. Yeah. From Bob Marley.
Very cool. So Shalom, one of the reasons that
I love it so much is because it does, yes, mean
peace, but it's actually like a much bigger vision
than that. Like it's wholeness. It's justice.
It's like all of the good things that I would
wish for in the world is Shalom. And so then
when we're talking about. Being peacemakers people
who are called to create or to participate in
bringing about Shalom because I don't think we
do it ourselves But who are called to bring about
Shalom through the work of God like we are not
just talking about Oh, Melissa, and I get along.
Yeah, it's like no actually like I care for you
you care for me there is like reciprocal relationship
here and we are working towards a bigger like
society that also embodies that the way the way
that's classically put right is um peace is not
the absence of injustice but it's the positive
pursuit of justice right yeah yeah and that's
cool that feels really important to me when we're
thinking about like what does it mean to be a
peacemaker we're not just called to like end
conflict we're called to do something in its
place yeah that is better And I think it's like
because God is love. And since it's saying that
the peacemakers will be, you know, children of
God. Yes, it's like smooth transition. Thank
you. There's just like when you're doing the
active work of peacemaking, because I think we
talked about how it's not a passive thing is
it is an active thing. You really have to choose
love. It really has to come from a place of love
and like caring, because if you don't, you know,
love that person or see that person as a child
of God made in God's image, then it's like, well,
why wouldn't I talk terribly about you? Because
you also annoyed me, too. Right. You really have
to come from a place of love and care and loving
thy neighbor and also loving God, too, because
at the end of the day, no matter who annoys us,
they are still made in the image of God. Which
is hard. Yeah. Image bearers can be annoying
sometimes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Definitely.
The other thing that I think about like in this
in this context is so Jesus is speaking to Jewish
people living in a Roman occupation. And the
Roman Empire is like folks will talk about like
the Pax Romana, the idea of Roman peace. And
so there is a. a peace that the Roman Empire
has proclaimed. Well, that the Roman Empire has
crushed all its enemies so there's no opposition
anymore. Right, exactly. So this is the kind
of peace that folks are ostensibly living under.
But Jesus says we still need peacemakers because
that's not actually the kind of peace that we're
going for here. Wait, wait. I think it makes
me think about how just throughout this entire
series and like Justin said about how like this
is like the kingdom that is to come. This is
what God's kingdom will look like. I think, you
know, when I just look through history, but even
just like today, sometimes making peace can feel
a little bit impossible. It can feel a little
bit like, how do we do that? And, you know. How
do we do that so that other people aren't getting
hurt? You know, because there's also that element
too, especially when it comes to wars and things
like that. Yeah. Yeah. Could I say something
about the children bit? Yes. I don't know. This
might be exegetically helpful. Okay. Bible study
-ish helpful. Yes. Whenever you see children
of or sons of, it used to be translated. In the
ancient Near East, like the sons of Israel, like
the Ben Israel. It means that you're called a
son of something or a child of something when
you take on the characteristics of that thing.
Okay. Right. So later on, Jesus is yelling at
the scribes and Pharisees and saying, like, you're
actually sons of the devil because you're doing
the stuff the devil is doing. Right. Right. So
when Jesus says, if you're a peacemaker, you're
a son of God or a child of God. He's saying you
will take on the qualities that God has. So it's
kind of like what you were saying about God being
love. You're identifying yourself as a proper
child of God when you do things that God does
and you do things that Christ does specifically.
So I think that when you bring that in, it's
got this nice balance of that active, I'm going
to make peace. But really what I'm doing is reflecting
something that's outside of myself. I'm taking
on the character qualities of the one I'm following,
which is Christ. So it's not just sort of, I
mean, the whole game with the Beatitudes is to
not turn it into an excessive. kind of law. Yeah.
Right. You got to do these things. And if you
do them, then God's going to reward you. No,
it's like you're doing these things because you're
a citizen of the kingdom. Right. Because you're
following Christ. You're a peacemaker because
the one you follow is the ultimate peacemaker.
Yeah. Yeah. So like Jesus has blessed the peacemakers
for they will be called children of God. And
that makes it sound like if you're a peacemaker,
you become a child of God. But actually, the
opposite is also true. Yeah. You are a child
of God and therefore you will be a peacemaker.
Yeah. And in fact, I mean, the alternative of
that is. you know the the scribes and the pharisees
at the time they're like we're sons of abraham
right and jesus is like you're not sons of abraham
because you're not doing the stuff that abraham
did right even if you're ethnically the sons
of abraham sure you're not sort of earning that
title or reflecting that title yeah right so
if you're not a peacemaker and you're calling
yourself a follower of christ Maybe you might
be in the danger zone. And there's plenty of
examples throughout history of Christians being
of people taking the name of Christ as their
identity and not doing Christlike stuff. And
that's a big reveal. Yes. According to the Beatitudes.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it then reminds me of,
you know, like later on in the sermon. I think
towards the end, Jesus talks about, you know,
there'll be all of these false leaders and things
and there'll be like wolves in sheep's clothing.
And how do you know the difference? Yeah. By
their fruit. By their fruit, you will know them.
That's right. Yeah. So like the leaders who actually
are following Jesus will have good fruit and
the leaders who are not following Christ will
not. Yeah. And so like, if you just look at that,
are they being peacemakers? Are they like being
meek? Are they doing all of these things? Like,
is that the outcome of their life? Then, Great.
Yeah. Not like maybe they're not the people that
we should be emulating. Yeah. Right. I also think
like, you know how like it's like we love because
Jesus loved like Jesus. He is in kind of like
a logistical like. I hope that's the right word,
but it's like Jesus is a peacemaker because through
his actions of dying for our sins, he has made
us like children of God, like God has adopted
us as his children. And so in a way, it's kind
of like Jesus literally is a peacemaker who made
us children of God. So then it's like we also
will be peacemakers as well. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Totally. So. I want to bring this into conversation
with another piece of scripture, because later
in Matthew's gospel, Jesus says, I did not come
to bring peace, but to bring a sword. This seems
challenging to me in the context of Jesus telling
us to go forth and be peacemakers. Now, is there
a way we can bring these two things together?
I think so. I hope so. But like initially, when
you like put those two things together, like
what are. What are the thoughts that you have
there? Definitely when I put those two scriptures
together, I'm like, wait, what are you talking
about? You know, it's like, do I bring peace?
Because if we're supposed to emulate Jesus and
be peacemakers, then... Jesus came to bring a
sword. So then it definitely is confusing. And
then later on in the gospels, Jesus tells Peter,
put away your sword. This is a lot of sword flinging
potentially happening here. Well, I have some
thoughts on it. So I think, I think what it means
in that passage is that the kingdom of God has
not been fully revealed yet. Right. So remember
we talked about at some point, I can't remember
how Jesus and his followers don't fit. Yes. Right.
They're like puzzle pieces that don't fit. Yeah.
Right. So so there's conflict that is created
when you have what's called in philosophy, like
a surd, like a weird thing that doesn't fit.
And I think that's what Jesus is saying. I didn't
come to sort of endorse the way things are. I
came to show an alternative vision of reality.
And that means when you face me, you're going
to have to choose. Do I want to continue living
in this old way? Right. Or do I want to live
into this new kingdom? And by sword, I think
he means like dividing. Right. Right. Because
later he says, the next verse says something
like, I've come to. to divide households, right?
Mothers from kids and fathers from everybody,
brothers from brothers, right? He's saying like,
you could go along in your merry way because
you're all living in the same world. Right. And
now there's an alternative there, right? It's
that line from Bonhoeffer that I keep quoting,
right? When you come across Jesus, you have two
options. You either follow him or kill him. Right.
And some people are going to choose to follow
him and some people are going to choose to kill
him. And based on that choice, there's going
to be separation between those people. I don't
think he means I've come to arm my disciples
to take everything by force. Yeah. I think he's
saying I naturally throw things out of whack
and force you to choose where you could have.
been passive before yeah yeah and i also think
because i i first of all that's really really
cool i never thought of it that way but it's
like you know it's not a sword to like hurt people
it's not a sword to kill but it's a sword to
kind of like divide and have people choose which
side are you going to be on you know and the
other thing too is like he's like saying I didn't
come to bring peace. It's like, well, what kind
of peace are you talking about? Cause there is,
you know, like we've mentioned the peacemaking
where you're actively trying to like make the
world a better place. Sometimes you can also
think of peace, you know, as appeasing someone.
You just kind of want to be like. oh, yeah, say
whatever you want, do whatever you want. But
I won't engage because if I engage, then there
might be a fight. So my way of peacekeeping is
to just, you know, stay back. And in that context,
it's like Jesus is saying, like, don't be on
the fence. Don't just sit there to appease. You
have to choose if you're going to follow me,
if you're not going to follow me. And that is
that source. I think that's really cool. Yeah.
No, I think that's a helpful way to sort of think
about it. Which also, I mean, the negative side
is beware of Christians who seem to fit hand
in glove with the way the world is going. Sure.
Yes. Right? Because a choice is always made.
Yes. Right? As the patron saints of Canada, Rush,
once said, right? If you choose not to decide,
you still have made a choice. Right. I'm assuming
you don't know that song, but the Gen X and boomers
will know what I'm talking about. Right. I'm
happy for you all. Um, yeah. And I mean, I think,
so yes, all of that context sort of came to mind
for me. The other thing that came to mind for
me in this metaphor of a sword is that like the
person holding the sword matters in some sense.
Like, like Christ is yes. The Christ sword is
like dividing us in some sense, but like, I don't
get to wield this sword. I don't get to say who's
in, who's out. I don't get to decide who's ear
to chop off. Yes. Like all of this stuff. Right.
And here's the thing. Even if Jesus did come
down to be like, I actually have bought a sword
to arm my disciples and to sling and do whatever
I want. Technically, it's like. he can because
he is god like who are we as mere human beings
to ever tell god actually you being a sword is
not peaceful and god's like what do you know
about peace um i created peace um and i think
again like you know we are very very like fortunate
that we have such a loving god who does not want
us to be hurt and who wants us to you know come
to him and like rely on him but it's like yeah
like If anyone's going to wield a sword, it should
be Jesus and only Jesus and no one else. Yes.
In Revelation 19, he comes back with a sword.
Yeah. But, oh, I can't remember what I was going
to say, but yes, great point. Thanks. So how
does this beatitude, blessed are the peacemakers
for they will be called children of God. How
does this fit in with all of the other? with,
you know, being poor in spirit, being meek. I
think as we talked about this, you know, peacemaking
might lead us to the cross, then it therefore
naturally leads into the last beatitude, where
we talk about persecution. Yeah, I mean, I think
they're all about embracing being weird. because
the kingdom doesn't fit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
um, you know, like keep Portland weird, like
keep the kingdom of heaven weird. Like when the
kingdom of heaven starts to fit, we're in trouble.
Yeah. Right. When you, when you just weren't
just an alternative politic in the world, just
like anything else, you know, we're not competing.
I always put it this way. We're not competing
for space in the world. Yeah. Right. Because
our kingdom is coming and Christ has already
proclaimed victory. We have the freedom to do
these things. Yep. Right. In a way that, you
know, the freedom of the confidence of the impending
kingdom of God gives us. So that's how I read
all of them. That's why they're, they're, they're
not just orders. Sure. They're a picture of something,
but it's a picture with a, that come with a challenge.
And the challenge is Jesus being like, are you
going to follow me? Right. yes and if you are
actually live this out yeah yeah yeah he's not
interested in again it's not um oh gosh i'm gonna
sound like a youth pastor from the 90s but he's
not about making a religion you know yeah um
he's saying like this is the this is a way right
remember christians were called followers of
the way early on yeah and i feel like I like
that you mentioned how the Beatitudes, they aren't
just like a law or like rules for someone to
follow. It is like a way of living because then
and it's also an aspect of like you have to constantly
ask God to be like, OK, God, you said to be a
peacemaker so that I can be, you know, children
of God. How do I do that? What does that look
like in this situation? It's not like he's saying
that on this very specific day, if you make this
decision, you are a peacemaker. And with the
rest of the Beatitudes as well, it's like, you
know, it's like blessed are the meek. Okay, God,
what does that mean to be meek? How do I be meek
in this situation in my life? And I think it's
just. you know, when we focus on the relationship
aspects instead of the religion aspect, the Beatitudes
are really highlighting that because we can't
do any of these things that Jesus is calling
us to do without the Holy Spirit, without God
telling us and teaching us and guiding us. Yeah,
totally. Yeah. It's very much this like whole
life thing. And following Jesus is, Weird in
more ways than one, but it's, it's weird in this
moment in a sense that like we are called to
do a thing, but also to not worry about doing
it. Yeah. Right. Like we are called to be peacemakers
and at the same time, trust that God has already
made peace and God is making peace. Yes. Right.
Yeah. It makes you more relaxed. You're acting
for something that's already, been accomplished
yeah um yeah so i don't have to freak out when
i'm my peace is not coming to yeah i mean i think
the same thing in the church when when jesus
says the gates of hell will not prevail against
the church right right in the church sometimes
we freak out all the time because of numerical
decline or whatever yeah and uh but you don't
have to worry The fate of the church isn't in
your hands. Jesus said you're going to win. So
chill. Literally, thank God. The fate of the
church is not in my hands. Yeah. Yeah. So it
frees you to do risky, incredible things and
not worry. It frees you to follow Christ. Yeah.
Right? Yeah. And I, you know, I just. Always
think about that quote. It's not from the Bible.
I think I got it from TikTok, where it's like,
who do you think you are that you're that powerful
that you can derail God's plans, right? And that,
I think, makes peace within myself, too. You
have a more holy FYP than I do on TikTok. Oh,
never mind. Mine is far sillier. Yes. So, blessed
are the peacemakers. People who aren't just like
passively sitting around waiting for peace to
happen, but will work for it. Will work for that
justice and wholeness and reconciliation. Even
when it leads you to the cross. Because that's
what Jesus did. So when we do that, we are children
of God. We are followers of Christ. I guess it's
not a gun then. Just our job. I don't think so,
unfortunately. Sorry, Ralphie. Or fortunately.
I don't know. I don't really want to wield a
gun, but somebody might. And if that's you, I'm
sorry, I guess. Scary. Yeah. Well, thank you,
folks, for this conversation. And thank you for
tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks.
Go out and make peace. Whatever that looks like
in your life, whatever the challenging places
are that need some of that wholeness and reconciliation
and love, go there and do that in the power of
Christ. And we'll see you next week.