WEBVTT 00:00:03.820 --> 00:00:06.440 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.400 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Justin. 00:00:09.939 --> 00:00:12.619 And we are here to continue our conversation 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.560 about the Beatitudes, which is the section that 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:19.339 opens Jesus's sermon on the Mount, where he talks 00:00:19.339 --> 00:00:21.660 about blessings and what it means to be blessed 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:23.820 and who are the kind of people that are blessed. 00:00:24.339 --> 00:00:26.579 And today we are talking about the Beatitude 00:00:26.579 --> 00:00:29.820 where Jesus says, Blessed are the merciful, for 00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:33.560 they will be shown mercy. And that sounds very 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:38.920 nice. It doesn't feel true. Kyler, why does it 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.600 not feel true to you? Well, I mean, it feels 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:45.619 true maybe in like a grand sense, but very specifically, 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.259 like in the world, if I am a merciful person, 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:52.520 I am not always shown mercy. Yes, you get walked 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:56.799 over by other people. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I think 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.649 that's... True. It's weird in the Sermon on the 00:01:00.649 --> 00:01:02.549 Mount, Jesus does say things like you should 00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.689 be willing to get walked over by other people. 00:01:06.129 --> 00:01:08.730 So that is a consequence of trying to live this 00:01:08.730 --> 00:01:12.329 way. If someone strikes you on the cheek, turn 00:01:12.329 --> 00:01:14.430 the cheek, go the extra mile, all that stuff. 00:01:16.049 --> 00:01:18.650 But in this case, I think it's who is the one 00:01:18.650 --> 00:01:20.469 who's going to show you mercy is the key question. 00:01:20.709 --> 00:01:23.519 Yes, that's fair. Maybe we're not talking about 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:25.819 my random neighbor who hates me. No, I mean we're 00:01:25.819 --> 00:01:28.140 in church, so we all know the answer is Jesus. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:33.540 Yeah. Okay, so but the word mercy seems to be 00:01:33.540 --> 00:01:36.560 pretty central to this phrase. Yes. It shows 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.299 up a couple of times at least. So what do we 00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:43.799 mean by the word mercy? Well, what do you think 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.150 it means? They're supposed to be more than to 00:01:47.150 --> 00:01:48.909 the two of us now, so now I want to make sure 00:01:48.909 --> 00:01:51.230 that we're not just interviewing me. Right. This 00:01:51.230 --> 00:01:53.129 is fair. Because you've got good stuff, man. 00:01:54.049 --> 00:01:57.329 Yeah. I mean, I think... Oh, here she is. Yes. 00:01:57.409 --> 00:02:00.730 Welcome, Melissa. Please come on in and have 00:02:00.730 --> 00:02:02.790 a seat. I'm so sorry. That's okay. No, church... 00:02:02.790 --> 00:02:05.430 We're live right now. We're live right now. Church 00:02:05.430 --> 00:02:07.750 ended early today because there was no communion. 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:10.729 So it's all right. I didn't tell you to show 00:02:10.729 --> 00:02:14.120 up early. And now we are extending mercy. To 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.520 you. Yeah. Is that mercy? Yeah, we're extending 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:19.199 mercy, which I'm going to need later because 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:21.199 I'm going to probably hit your car in the parking 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:23.759 lot later. I don't know. Yes. Oh, yeah, that 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.400 too. Mercy. We were just talking about what that 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:30.379 is. Yes. Mercy. Not just not just something that 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:33.259 Uncle Jesse says from Full House and Elvis. OK, 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:37.819 great. Mercy. Yes. So welcome, Melissa. Thank 00:02:37.819 --> 00:02:41.409 you so much. And. Thank you for extending your 00:02:41.409 --> 00:02:45.789 mercy to me today. I really appreciate it. Yeah. 00:02:45.990 --> 00:02:48.469 So the question we were just looking at, what 00:02:48.469 --> 00:02:53.349 is mercy? And I think. So I'm maybe going to 00:02:53.349 --> 00:02:56.150 get this wrong, but the childhood Veggie Tales 00:02:56.150 --> 00:02:59.889 version of me makes this distinction between 00:02:59.889 --> 00:03:05.810 mercy and grace, where grace is getting a thing 00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:09.939 that you don't deserve. And mercy is not getting 00:03:09.939 --> 00:03:13.319 a thing that you do deserve. Yeah, where that 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:18.539 thing that you deserve is bad. Yeah, my boss 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:20.639 doesn't show me mercy when they don't pay me. 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:24.360 Right. Yes. No, that's no. No, I deserve some 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:26.740 sort of a punishment, but I don't get it. And 00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:28.840 therefore, this is mercy. That is what Veggie 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.979 Tales has taught me, folks. Now, does this hold 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:35.240 up in the real world? Is that like, Melissa, 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.120 when you think of mercy, what do you think of? 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.080 Well, when I think of mercy, I do think about 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.719 God first. However, I agree that in the real 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.979 world, like, it can be kind of hard to not only 00:03:47.979 --> 00:03:50.439 extend that mercy, but to also receive that mercy, 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.379 because we have responsibilities. If at work 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:56.840 I mess up, usually my manager will not give me 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.439 mercy. She will, you know, address me the way 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:03.240 that in a workplace setting that I should be 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.870 addressed. Even though sometimes it would be 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:09.530 nice to have that mercy. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, 00:04:09.610 --> 00:04:11.990 the thing that makes mercy difficult in the real 00:04:11.990 --> 00:04:15.090 world, quote unquote, is that we have a whole 00:04:15.090 --> 00:04:19.250 system built on justice. Right. Right. The whole 00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:21.410 system where if if we just sort of let people 00:04:21.410 --> 00:04:24.670 off. Yeah. Then sort of the guardrails for our 00:04:24.670 --> 00:04:27.089 society start falling away and we could have 00:04:27.089 --> 00:04:29.790 chaos. Right. So it's like a really scary thing 00:04:29.790 --> 00:04:32.110 to give mercy. Right. You're putting yourself. 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:34.579 I mean, if we're talking about on a societal 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:37.860 level, you're putting society at risk by showing 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:41.040 lots of mercy. Mercy is risky. It's super risky, 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:42.899 right? Because who knows, people could abuse 00:04:42.899 --> 00:04:45.860 it, right? People would be like, well, I guess 00:04:45.860 --> 00:04:47.879 if mercy is going to be shown that I can just 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:50.100 commit crimes and do what I want and trust that 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:54.100 people are going to be nice. So it's a nerve 00:04:54.100 --> 00:04:56.300 wracking sort of thing. But what Jesus is talking 00:04:56.300 --> 00:04:58.139 about in the Beatitudes is this kind of upside 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:02.120 down kingdom idea. Right? It's not supposed to 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:07.220 work now. Right. It's the way God's kingdom works. 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:10.019 And he's asking his followers to live in the 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:12.639 way that that kingdom will be or that that kingdom 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.800 is. So you're going to have to live countercultural. 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:17.660 You're going to make yourself vulnerable as a 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:21.560 Christian by showing mercy to people. But that's 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:24.120 what Jesus did. Right. Right. Jesus was nailed 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.410 to a cross. He's saying forgive them. Yeah, but 00:05:28.410 --> 00:05:29.930 they don't know what they're doing Yeah, right. 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:31.550 He puts himself in the most vulnerable position 00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:35.569 to show mercy and the prize for that Attitude 00:05:35.569 --> 00:05:38.810 is God shows you mercy, right? At the end which 00:05:38.810 --> 00:05:41.110 again, like you said from veggie tells we don't 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:46.949 serve. Yes Yeah, I mean um so one of the things 00:05:46.949 --> 00:05:49.069 that we said initially at the beginning is like 00:05:49.069 --> 00:05:50.689 blessed are the merciful for they will be shown 00:05:50.689 --> 00:05:53.269 mercy doesn't feel true if we just look at it 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:55.949 in terms of like human relationships like if 00:05:55.949 --> 00:05:58.149 i'm a merciful person that doesn't guarantee 00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:01.800 that other people will be showing me mercy? Right. 00:06:01.899 --> 00:06:05.839 And I think that's a reason why it's really hard 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.019 to show mercy as well, because even if we show 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:11.100 mercy to other people, it's not guaranteed that 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:14.459 they will show mercy back to us. However, I feel 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:16.759 that as Christians, we have to constantly look 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:20.240 to Jesus because, you know, the idea is that 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:23.620 if God gave us mercy, then we should be merciful 00:06:23.620 --> 00:06:26.720 to other people as well. and then we think about 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.199 well if if God gave me the same amount of mercy 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:32.040 that I gave to other people well then then I'm 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:33.860 not receiving a lot of mercy because then I don't 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:36.259 actually give a lot of mercy to people and it's 00:06:36.259 --> 00:06:39.240 kind of really scary to think that so I guess 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.000 if we put it up to that standard it's like actually 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:43.959 we should constantly be giving as much mercy 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.990 as we can because we never want that like to 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:50.870 end for us from God. Right. And maybe it's through 00:06:50.870 --> 00:06:54.129 us that other people can experience mercy and 00:06:54.129 --> 00:06:56.389 that might be merciful to others as well. But 00:06:56.389 --> 00:06:58.689 it's definitely hard. And just like a lot of 00:06:58.689 --> 00:07:00.910 the Beatitudes, it requires a lot of surrendering 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:03.149 to God, a lot of sacrifice as well. Totally. 00:07:03.529 --> 00:07:05.430 I think that's really important because what 00:07:05.430 --> 00:07:07.850 you're really I mean, because God is I hate to 00:07:07.850 --> 00:07:09.529 say that I hate this phrase, but you know, God 00:07:09.529 --> 00:07:12.110 is also a God of justice. Right. So it's not 00:07:12.110 --> 00:07:16.129 like God's ignoring. Sure. Injustices and oppression 00:07:16.129 --> 00:07:18.750 and persecution. There's lots of that in the 00:07:18.750 --> 00:07:20.790 Bible. But what you're doing by extending mercy 00:07:20.790 --> 00:07:23.930 to others is that you're trusting God with the 00:07:23.930 --> 00:07:27.689 justice. Right. Right. And you're not putting 00:07:27.689 --> 00:07:30.350 it upon yourself to exact these kinds of punishments 00:07:30.350 --> 00:07:32.069 for yourself. You're saying, I'm a Christian. 00:07:32.730 --> 00:07:35.009 I know this world is God's. He will take care 00:07:35.009 --> 00:07:38.509 of it. And therefore I don't need to demand the 00:07:38.509 --> 00:07:41.189 justice that I normally would if I didn't trust 00:07:41.189 --> 00:07:43.829 in God to take care of that for me. Yeah, and 00:07:43.829 --> 00:07:45.829 then that makes me think about, like, when we're 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:48.850 in a position where we are choosing the kind 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:50.430 of people that we want to be merciful to and 00:07:50.430 --> 00:07:52.069 the kind of people that we don't want to be merciful 00:07:52.069 --> 00:07:54.730 to, we're, like, putting ourselves in this position 00:07:54.730 --> 00:07:57.250 of, like, judgment, where we're like, this type 00:07:57.250 --> 00:07:59.589 of person or this particular person is worthy 00:07:59.589 --> 00:08:03.029 of mercy, and this person is not worthy of mercy, 00:08:03.310 --> 00:08:05.990 but Jesus says, no, just extend mercy to everyone 00:08:05.990 --> 00:08:10.750 and, like, I'll sort it out later. Right? Yes, 00:08:11.149 --> 00:08:14.060 something like that. Yeah, I think I mean there's 00:08:14.060 --> 00:08:17.660 a great So there's a theologian who I like called 00:08:17.660 --> 00:08:20.379 Karl Barth I use this guy from Switzerland from 00:08:20.379 --> 00:08:23.220 the 20th century, but he one of the things he 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:27.009 says is that Jesus or God takes on the role of 00:08:27.009 --> 00:08:31.410 judge, not just to absolve us of our sins, but 00:08:31.410 --> 00:08:33.570 also to sort of let us off the hook for having 00:08:33.570 --> 00:08:36.629 to judge others ourselves. Right. Yeah. Right. 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:38.450 Like we go around in the world and we feel like 00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:40.389 we need to weigh in on everything and think this 00:08:40.389 --> 00:08:42.830 person good, this person bad. We're making judgments 00:08:42.830 --> 00:08:45.750 about people. And Bart says, actually, Jesus 00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:47.970 lets us off the hook of that responsibility. 00:08:48.049 --> 00:08:50.730 Right. That's what frees us to love people indiscriminately. 00:08:50.889 --> 00:08:53.419 Right. and like lets us off the hook feels like 00:08:53.419 --> 00:08:55.879 a nice way of saying that whereas like i would 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:59.879 say as like god says like just don't do it just 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:02.259 like don't judge the people yeah it's like you 00:09:02.259 --> 00:09:04.460 know like lets us off the hook feels like oh 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:06.779 i should feel like a weight about this but sometimes 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:08.799 i mean sometimes we do feel a weight about it 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:10.899 well because we want to take it back yeah like 00:09:10.899 --> 00:09:12.919 it feels i mean as with all things with christianity 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.500 when giving up sin feels like we're giving up 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:19.000 something. Yes. And really we're being freed 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.360 from something. Totally. So it feels hard to 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.480 be like, I should be able to look at someone 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.200 and say a judgment about them. Right. Someone's 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.700 wrong to me. I should be like, you are bad. Right. 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:33.279 And Jesus is like, no, no, I'll do that. Right. 00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:36.960 Now you can just love them. Right. And I think 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.980 it's also the idea that if we as humans judge 00:09:39.980 --> 00:09:42.620 other humans, it's like, I feel like we're just 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:45.980 going... Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. No, you sounded 00:09:45.980 --> 00:09:47.580 wise when you said that. Oh, thank you. Thank 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:50.879 you. I feel that we're going to get it wrong, 00:09:51.059 --> 00:09:52.279 you know? It's like, how do you know if we're 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:55.500 making the right judgment? That's something that 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.639 I feel like if you were a judge in the judicial 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.259 system, we already know that there's so many 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:04.860 times when we're judges, they get it wrong, right? 00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:08.279 And I think it does help to know that, like... 00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:10.870 That's not our job. That's not the task that 00:10:10.870 --> 00:10:13.090 God has given us. The task that God has given 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:16.450 us is actually just to love people, which it 00:10:16.450 --> 00:10:20.470 might not feel easier. But listening to Justin 00:10:20.470 --> 00:10:22.909 speak, actually loving other people is easier 00:10:22.909 --> 00:10:25.190 than maybe putting judgment on other people, 00:10:25.210 --> 00:10:27.509 because what if you do get it wrong? Right. And 00:10:27.509 --> 00:10:29.730 there's so many people affected by it as well. 00:10:29.970 --> 00:10:33.049 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's a great line in scripture. 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:39.620 Oh, I can't remember where it is. where it says 00:10:39.620 --> 00:10:41.899 Jesus entrusted himself to the one who judges 00:10:41.899 --> 00:10:46.120 justly. Mm. OK. Right? Like Jesus lived his life 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:49.299 allowing God to be the judge of everything. Right. 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:51.659 Right. He's not out there trying to get people's 00:10:51.659 --> 00:10:54.039 praise and adoration. She says, I'm going to 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.240 give my whole life to God. He'll be the judge 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:59.440 of my life. Right. Right. And that freed him 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:02.220 in some ways to do radical stuff like totally 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:03.919 hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:05.639 and all that stuff and not worry what people 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.929 were saying. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So then 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:12.190 I feel like we've sort of said, okay, so being 00:11:12.190 --> 00:11:15.649 merciful means not judging. It means extending 00:11:15.649 --> 00:11:21.350 love. But I'm wondering then what the sort of 00:11:21.350 --> 00:11:24.289 positive side of it, what it does look like. 00:11:24.909 --> 00:11:29.009 And so I have this cool book that we briefly 00:11:29.009 --> 00:11:30.809 mentioned last week by a guy called Dietrich 00:11:30.809 --> 00:11:33.250 Bonhoeffer called The Cost of Discipleship. And 00:11:33.250 --> 00:11:35.639 so in this book, he does a lot of things. But 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:37.419 one of the things that he does is breaks down 00:11:37.419 --> 00:11:40.259 the Sermon on the Mount. And when he talks about 00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:42.259 the people who are merciful, this is what Mr. 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:46.740 Bonhoeffer has to say. The merciful have an irresistible 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.139 love for the downtrodden, the sick, the wretched, 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.659 the wronged, the outcast, and all who are tortured 00:11:51.659 --> 00:11:54.919 with anxiety. They go out and seek all who are 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.419 enmeshed in the toils of sin and guilt. No distress 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:01.399 is too great, no sin too appalling for their 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:07.009 pity. Mm. Right? So good. Just doing the white 00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:12.149 person version of Amen. Yeah. So this, according 00:12:12.149 --> 00:12:15.889 to Bonhoeffer, is what the merciful do. They 00:12:15.889 --> 00:12:18.850 go out, they have an irresistible love. Like, 00:12:18.850 --> 00:12:21.909 let's just talk about that for a second. An irresistible 00:12:21.909 --> 00:12:26.269 love. Like, what does that mean? Jesus shaped. 00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:29.789 Right? Yeah. You're being compelled by Jesus, 00:12:29.809 --> 00:12:34.950 right, to do these things. I also think it's 00:12:34.950 --> 00:12:39.029 like this kind of freely given love to people, 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:41.029 right? The downtrodden and the oppressed. We 00:12:41.029 --> 00:12:44.190 often think of them as these poor victims and 00:12:44.190 --> 00:12:47.590 stuff like that. But I mean, there's all sorts 00:12:47.590 --> 00:12:49.669 of reasons people use for not being merciful 00:12:49.669 --> 00:12:51.529 to people. Oh, they're just going to spend this 00:12:51.529 --> 00:12:53.769 money on drugs or they're just going to do this 00:12:53.769 --> 00:12:57.009 or they need to go get a job really. Is me buying 00:12:57.009 --> 00:12:58.850 them a McDonald's breakfast really going to change 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:02.200 that much in their lives? Jesus is like, yeah, 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:05.200 don't worry about that. You know, your job is 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:08.620 to love these people indiscriminately. Yeah. 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:13.000 Right. I also think that when you show mercy, 00:13:13.059 --> 00:13:16.320 like even just once that can have such a huge 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.720 positive impact in a person's life. If you look 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.639 at a young person who maybe they messed up, maybe 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:23.220 they did something they shouldn't have done. 00:13:23.220 --> 00:13:26.570 Right. And if you approach them with. Punishment 00:13:26.570 --> 00:13:28.950 and judgment and anger. What message are you 00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:30.549 sending them? So they're going to grow up their 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:32.710 whole life being like well This is how the world 00:13:32.710 --> 00:13:36.309 works. We punish we judge And it's kind of like 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:38.789 in a way you're confirming confirming like labeling 00:13:38.789 --> 00:13:40.929 theory like oh i'm a bad person I deserve to 00:13:40.929 --> 00:13:42.549 be judged. Well, then i'm just going to continue 00:13:42.549 --> 00:13:44.990 living like this, right? However, if you show 00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:48.649 a young person or just anyone like mercy um especially 00:13:48.649 --> 00:13:51.590 that child or teenager they're gonna learn like 00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:54.129 actually there's another way to live life where 00:13:54.129 --> 00:13:55.990 i don't have to think the world that's so cold 00:13:55.990 --> 00:13:58.149 and hardened it can be but i can make the choice 00:13:58.149 --> 00:14:00.649 to be merciful right that person was merciful 00:14:00.649 --> 00:14:02.830 to me so i'm going to be merciful to someone 00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:05.009 else and i'm just going to do good because i'm 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:08.750 not you know this bad person i'm someone who 00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:11.110 can receive good things as well and i think that 00:14:11.110 --> 00:14:14.789 is a better way to live life in a way i know 00:14:14.789 --> 00:14:17.889 a lot of people they won't agree with that I 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:21.269 think sometimes you see people do things on the 00:14:21.269 --> 00:14:23.570 news, young people, you know, like they deserve 00:14:23.570 --> 00:14:25.809 to be punished, they deserve to be locked away. 00:14:26.730 --> 00:14:30.090 However, it's like, well, then what kind of world 00:14:30.090 --> 00:14:32.409 are we kind of setting up? Not to say that we 00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:35.710 shouldn't have justice, but more so that I think 00:14:35.710 --> 00:14:38.009 there needs to be a lot more mercy, especially 00:14:38.009 --> 00:14:41.070 towards people who are, like the book said, you 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:43.570 know, they have a lot of anxiety, a lot of... 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:45.639 Insecurities a lot of things happening and maybe 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:49.080 that can be young people or just anyone Yeah, 00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:55.259 I mean It feels really complicated when we try 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:58.139 to bring it to this like macro like societal 00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:02.519 level Yeah, right to try and say okay our justice 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.799 System should be a system of mercy. Yeah, I don't 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.620 really want to jump in that. Yeah but I also 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:14.350 don't think that that's necessarily what Jesus 00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:18.409 had in mind. I don't know. Well, I mean, it is 00:15:18.409 --> 00:15:20.570 going to be the polity of the new kingdom. Yeah. 00:15:20.590 --> 00:15:22.769 Right. So we're not there yet. Yeah. Right. So 00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:24.769 a lot of these rules are ways of dealing with 00:15:24.769 --> 00:15:27.509 the fact that we're still in a sinful world. 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:31.169 Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I so I don't I guess my 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:34.230 point was we don't need to make a society built 00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:36.509 on mercy in order to like follow this command 00:15:36.509 --> 00:15:40.120 as followers of Jesus. Yeah. Right? Like in our 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.340 personal relationships, we can be merciful people 00:15:43.340 --> 00:15:47.720 even while living in a society that's not built 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.120 on mercy. Yeah. I mean, you also need to be merciful 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:54.000 to, I don't know, victims of oppression, right? 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:56.820 You can't put them in a position to be constantly 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:59.139 abused by others. I mean, the thing is, mercy 00:15:59.139 --> 00:16:02.559 is not pretending that a wrong hasn't happened 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.820 or excusing it. Right. Right. So it's not like 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:09.570 you're saying I'm being merciful to you by Saying 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.090 it doesn't really matter that you right punch 00:16:12.090 --> 00:16:14.169 me in the face or something like that. It does 00:16:14.169 --> 00:16:16.990 matter Sure, right and and even the very fact 00:16:16.990 --> 00:16:19.809 of me forgiving you is an acknowledgement that 00:16:19.809 --> 00:16:21.870 you have wronged me, right? Even though I'm not 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:25.990 taking the the demands of punishment. Yeah So 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:27.889 I want to be clear on that too, right? So like 00:16:27.889 --> 00:16:29.730 if you've been victimized or you're oppressed 00:16:29.730 --> 00:16:31.690 or persecuted in some way It's not like Jesus 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:34.690 is saying just pretend like that never happened 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:37.669 and now it's like on you to know you're saying 00:16:37.669 --> 00:16:40.330 this was wrong Yeah, this was wrong. I mean in 00:16:40.330 --> 00:16:43.470 the same way that god says you're a sinner, right? 00:16:43.870 --> 00:16:46.049 Right. It's not like you're great. You're a sinner. 00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:49.909 I'm dying for you. Yeah, you know i'm i'm i'm 00:16:49.909 --> 00:16:52.409 showing mercy to you because you need mercy. 00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:57.529 Yeah You know, yeah Yeah, so then I feel like 00:16:57.529 --> 00:16:59.409 that's a really important angle to sort of tease 00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:01.909 out here is like this connection between mercy 00:17:01.909 --> 00:17:04.950 and forgiveness and forgiveness and like letting 00:17:04.950 --> 00:17:08.680 something go or like how justice like fits into 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:13.400 all of that, because yeah, it mercy. Obviously, 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.240 we are called to mercy. We are like God is a 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.859 merciful God. God is also a just God, as we said. 00:17:22.180 --> 00:17:24.200 But yeah, so it feels like like forgiveness is 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:27.460 sort of the name of the game. Like that's just 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:29.660 like part and parcel of following the way of 00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:33.880 Jesus. That doesn't make it easy, obviously. 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.640 And. No, I mean look at the name of this book 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:42.299 the cost the cost of deception, right? Yeah um, 00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:47.759 and I think that forgiveness Yeah, what what 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.680 I guess what does forgiveness look like if it 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:54.559 doesn't look like Letting it go, right? How do 00:17:54.559 --> 00:18:00.509 we both name? This is wrong. Yeah and Offer forgiveness, 00:18:00.509 --> 00:18:03.349 right? Like there's a whole boundary setting 00:18:03.349 --> 00:18:05.450 that happens in there. Well, you're going to 00:18:05.450 --> 00:18:08.009 teach us about forgiveness in your sermon of 00:18:08.009 --> 00:18:11.170 the Lord's Prayer in a couple of weeks. But yeah, 00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:16.490 I mean, I don't think forgiveness or showing 00:18:16.490 --> 00:18:19.569 mercy means that you, again, pretend that there 00:18:19.569 --> 00:18:22.789 hasn't been a rupture in relationship, right? 00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:26.190 This is why Christians forgive or show mercy 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:30.140 in faith. That it's God who will bring reconciliation. 00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:33.000 There's a really good book about this that a 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.880 friend of mine wrote called A Shared Mercy that 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:40.119 talks about forbearance as a key category. You're 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.799 kind of waiting expectantly in hope. So that 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.119 means like if I forgive someone, let's say someone 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.480 seriously wronged me, like in an illegal way. 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.000 It doesn't mean I'm forgiving you and now we 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.759 can be friends again and you're in my life and 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:54.940 everything's the way it was. No, sometimes you 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:57.799 have to create boundaries and distance, but you're 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.059 forgiving them in the hopes that God will bring 00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:02.380 about a reconciliation that you can't bring about 00:19:02.380 --> 00:19:06.480 on your own. Yeah. I feel like that's interesting 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.720 because when I think about forgiveness, I understand 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.980 like sometimes we have to be very careful to 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:14.839 like not, I guess, ignore the accountability 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.160 that that person should take. But then I wonder 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:21.150 like, If you're still holding on to something, 00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:24.069 is that still forgiveness? Because I've always 00:19:24.069 --> 00:19:25.690 looked at forgiveness as not something you do 00:19:25.690 --> 00:19:27.750 for someone else. You do it for yourself kind 00:19:27.750 --> 00:19:30.210 of thing. Because if you're just holding on to 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.549 that anger all the time and it's like just got 00:19:33.549 --> 00:19:35.990 to be a point where you're like, you're kind 00:19:35.990 --> 00:19:38.549 of just like hurting yourself now. So I kind 00:19:38.549 --> 00:19:40.569 of think of forgiveness as like you have to do 00:19:40.569 --> 00:19:43.029 the work of kind of like setting yourself free 00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:47.210 as well. And then I guess. I guess sometimes 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:50.390 I think about, obviously, people, they do things 00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:52.349 that aren't great to us. They do things that 00:19:52.349 --> 00:19:54.630 are really, really terrible to other people. 00:19:55.670 --> 00:19:58.410 And I can say right now that it would be really, 00:19:58.410 --> 00:20:00.410 really hard for me to offer forgiveness to someone 00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:04.210 if they did something super terrible to me. But 00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:07.630 does Jesus have limits on his forgiveness? I 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:11.809 kind of think about that because. you know, because 00:20:11.809 --> 00:20:13.650 then as Christians, we can ask, well, how many 00:20:13.650 --> 00:20:15.349 more times am I going to mess up before Jesus 00:20:15.349 --> 00:20:17.710 is like, actually, I'm setting the boundary and 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:19.450 you keep messing up and I'm not going to forgive 00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:23.609 you anymore. That's like a nightmare to me. Right. 00:20:23.650 --> 00:20:27.670 And I think Jesus is asking for a tall order, 00:20:27.769 --> 00:20:31.250 but it's not something he didn't do. He forgave 00:20:31.250 --> 00:20:34.690 people. Right. Right. He keep the people like 00:20:34.690 --> 00:20:37.450 when they put them on the cross and he was suffering. 00:20:37.829 --> 00:20:40.069 one of the worst deaths that anyone could ever 00:20:40.069 --> 00:20:41.769 suffer. He still said, Father, forgive them. 00:20:41.769 --> 00:20:44.609 And I'm like, I don't think I would have had 00:20:44.609 --> 00:20:46.750 the strength to do that. But then I wonder if 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:49.890 maybe through Jesus, that is something we have, 00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:53.109 because you have stories of people who, you know, 00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:55.329 their family member was killed. And then in court, 00:20:55.329 --> 00:20:57.490 they say, I asked you to forgive the person who 00:20:57.490 --> 00:20:59.829 killed my loved one. Right. How much faith does 00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:03.089 that take? Right. How much of supernatural faith? 00:21:03.569 --> 00:21:06.130 Exactly. But you're crossing so many boundaries. 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.859 I guess it's just. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look what 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:13.039 Jesus said right after Father, forgive them. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.539 Right. He says, but God into your hands, I commit 00:21:16.539 --> 00:21:20.099 my spirit. Right. So he's saying, I'm entrusting 00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:23.420 myself to you. I'm entrusting the execution of 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:27.299 justice to you. And so I can forgive these people. 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:29.859 Right. And because that forgiveness. I mean, 00:21:29.859 --> 00:21:33.900 this is the whole point of this. The father forgives 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:35.420 our sins as we forgive those who sin against 00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:39.769 us. Right. God has extended this mercy to us. 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.289 So now we can forgive others. Yeah. Right. And 00:21:43.289 --> 00:21:45.170 there's also the sort of the parable that Jesus 00:21:45.170 --> 00:21:48.349 tells about the guy who owed bajillions of dollars 00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:51.049 and had it forgiven. But then, you know, called 00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:52.890 someone out on their fifty dollar debt or something. 00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:55.509 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that parable, 00:21:55.769 --> 00:21:57.309 too, like when we were talking earlier. Yeah. 00:21:57.390 --> 00:22:01.190 So there's the story of a dude who owes. His 00:22:01.190 --> 00:22:03.369 master like, yeah, let's say a million dollars, 00:22:03.390 --> 00:22:06.529 a bunch of money. And his master forgives him. 00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:08.789 And then he goes out and yeah, gets mad at somebody 00:22:08.789 --> 00:22:12.430 else who owes him like 10 bucks. Yeah. And Jesus's 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:14.890 whole point of this is like, don't be like this 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:17.509 dude. Yeah. Right. Like you have received so 00:22:17.509 --> 00:22:20.150 much mercy. Yeah. Therefore, go and show it to 00:22:20.150 --> 00:22:22.329 others. I forgave you your debt so you could 00:22:22.329 --> 00:22:24.670 go and forgive other people's debts. Yeah. You 00:22:24.670 --> 00:22:28.410 know. Yeah. And I think it's important to point 00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:32.119 out at this sort of intersection that like we 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.680 don't do that alone. No. Right. Like God forgave 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.980 us our debts, enabling us to forgive other people's 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:44.740 debts. It's so like to just try and go out and 00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:47.819 do it in my own strength is maybe impossible. 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.900 It definitely is impossible. Right. But to do 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:56.039 it with the spirit of dependence on God, with 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.339 this spirit of, yeah, just trusting and praying 00:23:00.339 --> 00:23:04.940 and saying, God help me forgive, right? Like 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:08.720 that's what makes it possible. I think it's also 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.380 important to kind of look at like, you know, 00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:12.599 why you're forgiving someone, because if you're 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:14.240 forgiving someone, because you're just like, 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:15.920 well, if I forgive this person, then God will 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.019 forgive me. Or the idea of like, oh, if I forgive 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:21.460 this person, then God's going to make sure that 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.119 something terrible happens to them, but then 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.910 it's not out of my hands. I'm going to randomly 00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:28.009 a Lamborghini is going to be in my front yard 00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:30.849 because I forgave this person. I guess it's kind 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:32.349 of like sometimes you're going to have to show 00:23:32.349 --> 00:23:35.069 mercy and you're not going to receive anything 00:23:35.069 --> 00:23:39.250 back because I mean, God gives us mercy, but 00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.710 it's not like we're giving him, you know, something 00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:46.230 that he doesn't already have. Right. So I think 00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:50.670 it's just that you just have to be so selfless 00:23:50.670 --> 00:23:55.880 and so dependent on God. to be in that space. 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:59.299 And he does ask us of that. Right. Yeah. Totally. 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:07.799 So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Jesus says, blessed 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.259 are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:12.920 So we've talked about this idea of mercy. This 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.079 is how it connects to forgiveness and a bit about 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:24.220 how it connects to justice, I think. So. Why, 00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:28.400 like what is it about mercy that we think makes 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.140 it one of the sort of primary principles of the 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:36.539 kingdom of God? Like why, why mercy? Why not 00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:40.660 something else? I guess, that's the first thing 00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:43.460 I think of is that, you know, Jesus says mercy 00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:45.220 and that's specifically one of the Beatitudes 00:24:45.220 --> 00:24:47.660 because, well, why did Jesus come to the earth, 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.140 right? To show mercy to give us a way so that 00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:56.220 we can be reconciled to the Father. Because I 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:59.160 think just every single person right now who 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:03.220 has lived and will live needs mercy from God. 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.240 And I guess it just, yeah, you put it in that 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:08.859 context. It's like, yeah, why wouldn't Jesus 00:25:08.859 --> 00:25:11.000 mention that? Because that's the thing that we 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.319 need, right? Yeah. I mean, you think about everybody 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.680 in the kingdom of heaven, everybody in the church. 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.720 Yeah. Has been shown mercy by God and has needed 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.960 mercy from God. Yep, right. So it's it's the 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.400 currency Yeah of the kingdom right to show mercy 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.460 It's very Jesus centric, right? It's this is 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:34.500 the way Jesus did stuff. Yeah the king of this 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:37.480 thing Yeah, we should do it too. Yeah. Yeah, 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:39.539 it's the expectations of citizenship in the kingdom 00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:42.680 of heaven. Mm -hmm And it's interesting like 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.920 in I guess in Matthew's gospel in particular, 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:50.099 but probably in all of them the word mercy is 00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:54.799 like used pretty frequently and it's often used 00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.599 in the context of like somebody asking Jesus 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.000 for something usually like physical healing like 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.799 there's a dude on the side of the road who's 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.519 like begging for money and then Jesus walks by 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:09.599 and he's like Jesus have mercy on me and I guess 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.460 what that reminds me is that and and then Jesus 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:14.700 has this interaction and like heals him right 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.619 and so that sort of shows me like mercy has this 00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:23.029 spiritual emotional component to it, but it also 00:26:23.029 --> 00:26:27.009 has a very Practical tangible component like 00:26:27.009 --> 00:26:30.470 this man is not the same from that moment on 00:26:30.470 --> 00:26:32.609 like he and so in this particular case I think 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:35.130 he's healed from blindness and is able to like 00:26:35.130 --> 00:26:37.750 go out like live his life But like in all kinds 00:26:37.750 --> 00:26:40.940 of cases, there's something concrete That like 00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:44.000 happens as an expression of mercy. I I think 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.359 that's interesting I don't think we touched upon 00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:49.119 it yet, but it's like the fact that like yes, 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.480 like mercy is given to us by God and we should 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.599 give that mercy to other people but People do 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:57.359 have to kind of like ask for that mercy just 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.180 as we go to God and we ask for his mercy as well 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:03.000 We ask for his forgiveness. So it's kind of like 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.839 in a way you know, just something that is kind 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.359 of a concrete and tangible is just If someone's 00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:10.299 coming to you and they're saying, like, I'm really 00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:13.859 sorry, you know, no matter how hard it is, that 00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:16.259 is the opportunity for us to show that mercy, 00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:19.000 because now we have that like tangible like signal 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.519 that's like, OK, well, this is that opportunity 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:25.960 now. Right. Right. I wonder, like, if that person, 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:30.319 he never went to Jesus and was like, Jesus have 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.599 mercy on me. Right. If he was just like, Jesus 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.740 will come to me. It's fine. He knows I'm here. 00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:37.650 Right. And it's like Jesus is like. There's many 00:27:37.650 --> 00:27:40.809 people that are here. I'm sure um, so I mean, 00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:42.609 maybe Jesus still would have healed him But I 00:27:42.609 --> 00:27:44.210 think it's just like the fact that he took that 00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:49.289 step to be like Jesus heal me Yeah, yeah Yeah, 00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:52.309 it's like the defensiveness of offering forgiveness 00:27:52.309 --> 00:27:56.029 to someone without specifying What they did? 00:27:56.789 --> 00:27:58.450 You know like if I was having a fight with my 00:27:58.450 --> 00:28:00.930 spouse or something like that and and I just 00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:03.819 all of a sudden said I forgive you Right. That's 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:06.240 not going to end well for me, right? Because 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.019 we haven't established what the breakdown in 00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:10.599 the relationship was. So there is a part where 00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:12.359 like the person needs to recognize their need 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:18.619 also. But even if not, I think Jesus is, you 00:28:18.619 --> 00:28:20.160 know, he says, forgive them. They don't know 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.859 what they're doing. Right. Right. But that doesn't, 00:28:23.859 --> 00:28:25.440 that's not going to bring the reconciliation 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.079 without their also acknowledgement of. I receive 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:34.230 that from you, Jesus, as well. Yeah, yeah, totally. 00:28:34.349 --> 00:28:36.390 So this is for anyone who says being a Christian 00:28:36.390 --> 00:28:40.049 is easy It's not easy being a Christian, but 00:28:40.049 --> 00:28:43.109 it's worth it and it's the truth. Mm -hmm. Yeah. 00:28:43.390 --> 00:28:46.049 Yeah I mean Jesus did say my yoke is easy and 00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:49.750 my burden is light, but that's true Only if you 00:28:49.750 --> 00:28:52.289 let him do all the stuff, which is hard. Yeah, 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:58.349 another oxymoron. Yeah It's all very easy if 00:28:58.349 --> 00:29:03.190 we can let go We cannot let go And therefore, 00:29:03.509 --> 00:29:06.750 it's hard. We're in this constant push and pull. 00:29:07.769 --> 00:29:12.289 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have this. No, never 00:29:12.289 --> 00:29:15.450 mind. Yeah. Sorry. I was thinking about the sermon 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.069 from today that we're not talking about. So we 00:29:18.069 --> 00:29:25.529 could talk about it. Yeah. So then. Mercy. Yeah, 00:29:25.529 --> 00:29:28.529 it's something that people ask us for, but even 00:29:28.529 --> 00:29:31.410 when they don't ask us for it, we can. Extend 00:29:31.410 --> 00:29:34.190 it it just leads to a different kind of relationship 00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:40.750 in that case. Yeah So Practically, yeah, what 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:45.349 does it look like? To extend mercy to someone 00:29:45.349 --> 00:29:50.750 like the process of forgiveness Which is I think 00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:53.190 a bit different than mercy, but it's included 00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:55.230 in the concept of mercy like the practice of 00:29:55.230 --> 00:29:59.869 forgiveness Has always felt a little bit Beyond 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:05.940 Grasp for me because it's like It's a thing that 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:10.059 happens in my words that may or may not happen 00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:14.240 in my actions Right, and I think mercy can be 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:16.759 the same way we can say I can say oh Melissa 00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:19.559 I'm being merciful towards you, but then actually 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.980 like I'm just gonna stay over here and secretly 00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:23.859 still hate you a little bit or something I don't 00:30:23.859 --> 00:30:30.359 know. I don't I hate one of you, but I'm not 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:38.240 gonna tell you Good I babysat your gecko. I know 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:47.240 my gecko Shout out to tube my son's gecko Yeah, 00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:52.180 so mercy what does it look like I sorry no no 00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:55.180 good. I guess it's just I feel like the way that 00:30:55.180 --> 00:30:58.059 we practically extend mercy looks different depending 00:30:58.059 --> 00:31:00.799 on the person. If it's like you're this like 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.000 three year old child who dropped your phone by 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.799 accident and now the screen shattered, like you're 00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.960 going to be really pissed off. Right. Yeah. But 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.740 it's like, well, what can you do to this three 00:31:08.740 --> 00:31:12.099 year old child? They don't know they messed up. 00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:14.640 So you gave your phone to a three year old. Yeah. 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.259 So maybe that's an actual consequences of your 00:31:17.259 --> 00:31:19.619 actions. But in that case, you are just like, 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.220 OK, like you extend that mercy versus like if 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:25.130 it's your an older person in your family, right? 00:31:25.150 --> 00:31:29.109 Your parent or someone who maybe physically abused 00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:33.269 you, right? How do you go through the process 00:31:33.269 --> 00:31:37.130 of showing forgiveness and mercy to that person? 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:41.650 I guess. I don't know. It's just that I had nothing 00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:43.890 to add. That's all I had to say. Just yeah, it 00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:46.170 looks different in each relationship. Yeah. Yeah. 00:31:46.569 --> 00:31:49.089 But also there's the like to get back to your 00:31:49.089 --> 00:31:52.829 concrete stuff. I mean. historically acts of 00:31:52.829 --> 00:31:55.289 mercy, at least in the church, is also giving 00:31:55.289 --> 00:31:59.269 to the poor, looking at someone. There's that 00:31:59.269 --> 00:32:02.210 great line where Jesus, oh, and Jesus is talking 00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:04.730 to the rich young man and it says, Jesus looked 00:32:04.730 --> 00:32:07.630 at him and loved him. You're supposed to see 00:32:07.630 --> 00:32:10.849 your fellow human being and love them, have mercy 00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:13.109 on them. Don't be like, you made your bed, now 00:32:13.109 --> 00:32:18.180 lie in it. Yeah, you made some bad choices. Maybe 00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:21.039 you got hooked on smack or you lost your job 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:22.819 or whatever But you don't deserve to be living 00:32:22.819 --> 00:32:24.960 on the street, right? You know, I'm gonna show 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.519 mercy. I'm gonna help you all that kind of stuff 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:33.400 where you could theoretically just Be on your 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.680 merry way and ignore that stuff. But Jesus is 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.359 saying I didn't do that. So you should do the 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.440 same, right? Yeah, and we really made our bed 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.319 as sinners, right? We rebelled against the Holy 00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.630 God who created us. Yeah I mean, we deserved 00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:50.009 all of all of whatever we got for that. And God's 00:32:50.009 --> 00:32:51.750 like, no, I'm going to extend mercy to you guys. 00:32:51.789 --> 00:32:54.750 I'm sending you my son. Right. Right. Yeah. So 00:32:54.750 --> 00:32:59.829 it I mean, it goes back to that that Bonhoeffer 00:32:59.829 --> 00:33:04.349 line, that irresistible love. Yeah. Right. It's 00:33:04.349 --> 00:33:10.069 yeah. Mercy just is love. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:12.670 it's at the risk of being the most stereotypical. 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:14.940 21st century Christian preacher, it's like in 00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:19.539 The Matrix, you know, when Neo sees all the dots 00:33:19.539 --> 00:33:23.660 and stuff. I can't remember. But it's like we 00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:27.119 need to have like Neo lenses to see people as 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.279 people who are beloved by God, whom God is longing 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:32.700 to be reconciled with no matter the evils they 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:37.380 do, either to us or to others. That is supernaturally 00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:39.500 difficult, right? I mean, that is really, really 00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:42.019 hard to do. But again, this is something that 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.940 Jesus gives to us as a gift. He helps us to see 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:49.440 people that way. Where everything inside of us 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.180 is saying, dehumanize that person. Yeah, yeah, 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.359 yeah, yeah. Jesus rehumanizes them. So I guess 00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.059 it's kind of like... You have to change your 00:33:58.059 --> 00:34:00.420 whole like the whole way that you kind of like 00:34:00.420 --> 00:34:02.240 present yourself in the world and the whole way 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.960 that you carry yourself and talk to people. And 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.059 I think it does require maybe a changing of looking 00:34:08.059 --> 00:34:10.440 at different, you know, social issues and looking 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.539 at different things in the world. There's, for 00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:16.059 example, homelessness and house population. There's 00:34:16.059 --> 00:34:18.639 people, you know, like we said, he'll say, why 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:20.659 should we give them affordable housing? Why should 00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.780 we do this? Why should we do that? Right. And 00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:25.250 because. They're like, it doesn't benefit me. 00:34:25.269 --> 00:34:27.409 I worked so hard to get here. And then Mercy 00:34:27.409 --> 00:34:31.449 is having to be like, well, actually, even if 00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:35.489 that person did whatever and that's why they're 00:34:35.489 --> 00:34:38.769 there, they still deserve to have a shelter. 00:34:38.869 --> 00:34:42.650 They still deserve to have food and water. Or 00:34:42.650 --> 00:34:44.769 maybe they don't deserve it, but we're obligated 00:34:44.769 --> 00:34:47.429 to give it to them as Christ followers. Like 00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:49.550 the answer to any of the whys. Why should I help 00:34:49.550 --> 00:34:51.250 this person? Why should we do this good thing? 00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:53.230 Whatever. The answer is always because they are 00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:57.750 a person loved by God. Full stop. And I've already 00:34:57.750 --> 00:35:01.030 received infinite blessings from God, right? 00:35:01.030 --> 00:35:03.289 So for me to withhold that from someone else 00:35:03.289 --> 00:35:06.889 contradicts my own situation. Yeah, totally. 00:35:09.289 --> 00:35:13.809 And I think Especially when we then put this 00:35:13.809 --> 00:35:20.309 back in like a social context, those who are 00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:22.889 merciful, who sort of have this Christ -like 00:35:22.889 --> 00:35:26.289 posture, are not always going to be well -received 00:35:26.289 --> 00:35:31.070 by the world. You know, as we keep hinting towards 00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:33.090 the end of these Beatitudes, where it's, you 00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:36.550 know, blessed are those who are persecuted, right? 00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:41.000 And I think... So there's another Bonhoeffer 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.880 quote that I want to read for you because he's 00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.699 great Yeah, so he talks about, you know showing 00:35:47.699 --> 00:35:50.420 mercy to all of these kinds of people And he 00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:54.400 says the merciful are glad to incur reproach. 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.639 So they're glad that people are like hating on 00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.980 them For this reason for they know that they 00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:04.500 are blessed Yeah, blessed are the merciful for 00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:09.719 they have the merciful for their Lord I like 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:12.320 that. I like that a lot. The Blessed or the Merciful, 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.380 because God is merciful. Yeah. God is the one 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:18.400 showing the mercy. So like, even if the people 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.380 out in the world are like, what are you doing? 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.599 Or even if the people in the world are like, 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.420 that's stupid. Yeah. We're not following them. 00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:29.659 The other side of it, I mean, it's not just, 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:31.940 you know, when you see people, you see them as 00:36:31.940 --> 00:36:34.500 beloved by God. Yeah. You're also kind of doing 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:38.699 it for God's sake, too. Like I'm loving others. 00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.300 I'm showing mercy to them to glorify the God 00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:44.920 who's already blessed me with mercy. Yeah. Right. 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:48.320 It's it's doing things unto God as well as to 00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:51.929 others. Yeah. I also feel like, you know, now 00:36:51.929 --> 00:36:54.510 that like we're Christians, kind of like what 00:36:54.510 --> 00:36:56.769 Britt said last week about how now we can wear 00:36:56.769 --> 00:36:59.090 those glasses and we kind of see things. And 00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:01.210 now it's better. Now we like operate, you know, 00:37:01.309 --> 00:37:03.429 in the Holy Spirit. Yeah. It's kind of like when 00:37:03.429 --> 00:37:06.610 we don't show mercy, it's like the audacity that 00:37:06.610 --> 00:37:09.610 you have to not show mercy when God is showing 00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:12.909 you so much mercy right now. It's like how how 00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:14.389 do you live with yourself? It's like that kind 00:37:14.389 --> 00:37:18.090 of idea. Right. And whenever I've been offered 00:37:18.090 --> 00:37:21.030 opportunity to show mercy and I haven't afterwards, 00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:24.550 I'm like, oh my gosh, that wasn't a proud moment 00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:27.230 of mine. Right. And I think you do feel that 00:37:27.230 --> 00:37:32.289 conviction because you know that how, who do 00:37:32.289 --> 00:37:34.230 I think I am that I didn't show mercy to this 00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:36.030 person when literally right now God is showing 00:37:36.030 --> 00:37:40.789 me mercy. Yeah. Again, just to protect against 00:37:40.789 --> 00:37:42.570 the implication for those thinking I have to 00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:44.789 be a doormat to everyone as a result of this, 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:47.750 like, There's wisdom that's called for. These 00:37:47.750 --> 00:37:50.090 aren't black and white rules. The question is, 00:37:50.190 --> 00:37:51.849 God, what does it mean for me to be merciful 00:37:51.849 --> 00:37:55.670 in this situation? It's not the same for everyone. 00:37:56.909 --> 00:37:58.969 I always think back when there was this mass 00:37:58.969 --> 00:38:02.250 shooting in Amish country in Pennsylvania and 00:38:02.250 --> 00:38:04.150 a bunch of the Amish folk were like, we forgive 00:38:04.150 --> 00:38:07.369 the killer. That doesn't mean that everybody 00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:10.329 has to do that exact thing from now on that's 00:38:10.329 --> 00:38:12.710 a victim of that kind of crime. But it doesn't 00:38:12.710 --> 00:38:15.010 mean you're supposed to ask God, what is my responsibility 00:38:15.010 --> 00:38:17.489 here? Right. Right. What does it mean for me 00:38:17.489 --> 00:38:19.550 to be a citizen of the kingdom in this way at 00:38:19.550 --> 00:38:22.289 this time in this particular circumstance? Right. 00:38:22.429 --> 00:38:23.670 I know I'm going to have to show mercy, but I 00:38:23.670 --> 00:38:25.429 don't know what that looks like. Yeah. So I'm 00:38:25.429 --> 00:38:27.309 going to need you to show me what that is. Right. 00:38:27.849 --> 00:38:33.849 Yeah. Yeah. There is a very real sense in which 00:38:33.849 --> 00:38:39.449 showing mercy can also be pursuing. Justice. 00:38:39.809 --> 00:38:43.630 Yeah at the same time. I mean Bonhoeffer is uh, 00:38:43.650 --> 00:38:45.230 you know, he's famous for a couple things But 00:38:45.230 --> 00:38:47.730 one of them is being involved in a plot to assassinate 00:38:47.730 --> 00:38:52.690 hitler, right? Right. So um So it's not like 00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:54.909 he was saying like walk all over me, right? Right. 00:38:54.909 --> 00:38:56.570 He was he was doing something He didn't even 00:38:56.570 --> 00:38:58.110 think that was a good thing. Well, I can go into 00:38:58.110 --> 00:39:02.150 this much sure but um But yeah, I mean, his whole 00:39:02.150 --> 00:39:05.309 point was you got to follow Christ in these things. 00:39:05.489 --> 00:39:07.809 What is Christ asking me to do? What is the command 00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:10.530 of Christ in this? If you do that, you will show 00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:13.289 mercy. You will exhibit all these blessings and 00:39:13.289 --> 00:39:16.510 the beatitudes in the way that it befits the 00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:21.139 circumstance. Yeah. I also feel like the doormat 00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:23.280 thing it's interesting because I think when you're 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.199 reading the Beatitudes it kind of might feel 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.940 like okay so I just have to let everyone be like 00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:30.179 I just have to be super meek super quiet super 00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:32.820 submissive no one can everyone could do whatever 00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:34.699 they want to me and I just have to be okay with 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:39.539 it however I think that when you're displaying 00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:42.699 mercy or any of the characteristics that are 00:39:42.699 --> 00:39:44.920 mentioned in the Beatitudes you have to make 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:47.599 an active choice. Like you do have control in 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:50.159 that situation to be like, I cannot show you 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.099 mercy if I don't want to. However, I'm making 00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:55.360 the active choice of showing you mercy. And so 00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.480 there is this aspect of you're still kind of 00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.860 like in control. I mean, as in control as we 00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:07.460 can be. And kind of like with that in mind, it's 00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:11.380 like, I guess maybe you're not like a doormat 00:40:11.380 --> 00:40:14.380 because you're kind of just thinking like, I 00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:15.579 could choose something else, but I'm choosing 00:40:15.579 --> 00:40:18.980 this. And it's not being forced upon me to be 00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:21.000 merciful. I'm choosing to do this for someone 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:24.619 else. Totally. Yeah, I think the piece that stands 00:40:24.619 --> 00:40:26.440 out to me from what you were just saying, Justin, 00:40:26.619 --> 00:40:28.699 is like that in all things, we're like following 00:40:28.699 --> 00:40:32.989 Christ in this. And so like. Yeah, these aren't 00:40:32.989 --> 00:40:36.329 as you said hard and fast rules and and they 00:40:36.329 --> 00:40:39.389 aren't even like fleshed out examples Mm -hmm. 00:40:39.449 --> 00:40:42.949 Yeah, right. There's not if this then this yep, 00:40:43.110 --> 00:40:48.210 right so Jesus is the example like all of the 00:40:48.210 --> 00:40:50.710 Beatitudes the poor in spirit the merciful the 00:40:50.710 --> 00:40:54.829 meek the morning like this is who Jesus was Yeah, 00:40:54.829 --> 00:40:58.989 and so our call is to like emulate Jesus in our 00:40:58.989 --> 00:41:02.440 own lives And so then our orientation is not 00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:06.320 towards mercy as an abstract concept. Yes. Yes. 00:41:06.460 --> 00:41:09.159 Our orientation is towards Christ. Absolutely. 00:41:09.579 --> 00:41:12.059 Yeah. I think that's definitely right. I mean, 00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:14.619 that's what Jesus did, right? He was like, you 00:41:14.619 --> 00:41:16.460 know, all this stuff I'm doing, I'm not just 00:41:16.460 --> 00:41:18.320 making this up. I'm doing what my father's telling 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.559 me to do. Right. Right. I'm not winging it. I'm 00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:24.639 not applying a calculus. The father's like, hey, 00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:29.179 you should probably raise Lazarus. Okay. Sorry, 00:41:29.179 --> 00:41:31.500 I don't want to get into the speculative area 00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:33.539 of how the Trinity talks to each other, but, 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:35.820 you know, hey, what's up? You should go and heal 00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:42.179 theirs. That would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. So following 00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:48.139 Jesus in all the things, in our attitudes, in 00:41:48.139 --> 00:41:51.000 our actions, in our figuring out what it looks 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:53.699 like to be faithful in any given relationship 00:41:53.699 --> 00:41:59.579 or situation, ask Jesus. And I think also like 00:41:59.579 --> 00:42:03.360 just practically as well I think Like unfortunately 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:05.639 as humans we do go through a lot of things and 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.659 people do hurt us and sometimes It's not like 00:42:08.659 --> 00:42:10.420 you're just gonna make the decision to be I'm 00:42:10.420 --> 00:42:12.599 just gonna be merciful to this person who caused 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.380 me immense pain Sometimes you do have to like 00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:17.340 work on that and I just want to like mention 00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:20.940 that You know just praying to God to be like 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:24.059 God help me to be merciful to someone like you 00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:27.940 know what they did to me and help me to be merciful 00:42:27.940 --> 00:42:30.480 to them. And maybe they'll take a week, an hour, 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:33.619 maybe they'll take 20 years. It might happen 00:42:33.619 --> 00:42:36.659 in the next life. You could be like, God, at 00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:39.880 the end of all things, when all is said and done, 00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:41.460 when the new heavens and new earth have come, 00:42:42.340 --> 00:42:45.320 then I want you to help me forgive this person. 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.320 I don't think I can do it now, but I know that 00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:51.300 you can help me do that at some point. Yeah, 00:42:51.860 --> 00:42:56.030 totally. Very cool. Yeah, so blessed are the 00:42:56.030 --> 00:43:00.570 merciful, the people who show love, the people 00:43:00.570 --> 00:43:04.650 who forgive when it's hard, the people who are 00:43:04.650 --> 00:43:08.150 oriented to the way of Christ. Blessed are they, 00:43:09.130 --> 00:43:12.730 for God has given them so much. God has shown 00:43:12.730 --> 00:43:16.809 mercy. Preach. It's just what God's all about. 00:43:17.409 --> 00:43:20.489 It's kind of his thing. Yeah, very much so. Even 00:43:20.489 --> 00:43:22.230 when people don't like it and they don't agree 00:43:22.230 --> 00:43:26.239 with it. If it's what God has called us to, then 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:30.659 we're going to be all right. Yeah. Cool. Thank 00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.500 you so much, folks. And thank you for tuning 00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:36.659 in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I 00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:39.260 hope that in whatever situations you need to 00:43:39.260 --> 00:43:41.059 show mercy, whether they're in the small things 00:43:41.059 --> 00:43:44.860 or the really big things, that you can find the 00:43:44.860 --> 00:43:49.059 way of Jesus in that and continue listening for 00:43:49.059 --> 00:43:54.019 God's voice, calling us to show love. and calling 00:43:54.019 --> 00:43:57.739 us beloved in the midst of that. We'll see you 00:43:57.739 --> 00:43:58.260 again next week.