Good morning everyone and welcome to Trinity
Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is Melissa. And
we are sitting down to talk more about the Beatitudes,
which is this section of the Sermon on the Mount,
so Jesus's most famous sermon or teaching, all
sort of put together. And the Beatitudes start
this off with, blessed are the... Blank and there's
sort of eight statements that fit in there. So
this week we're talking about blessed are those
who mourn for they will be comforted And I started
our podcast last week by talking about this word
Beatitudes and I said at that point I don't actually
know what this word means where it came from
So I went home and did some homework on this
and found out that in fact, yes Beatitudes does
come from a Latin word Beatus Which just means
blessed. Oh So, it all makes sense. So, like,
the blessings. Yes, the blessings. The beatitudes,
the blessings. Oh, that's really cool. And that
makes a lot of sense, too. Yes, it does make
a lot of sense. But I thought, you know, since
I sort of said last week, I don't know, maybe
I should know. Now I know. And now you all know
as well. Yeah, very cool. I think that is really,
really cool. I think sometimes I know definitely
for myself, like seeing those big words, you're
just like, oh my gosh, like this feels a little
intimidating, but it's nice to know that it's
like, oh no, it's just blessings. Very, very
nice. Very, very like. soft vibe. Yeah. Yeah.
Which I think also helps because beatitudes is
like a super churchy word. Yes. Right. And so
it's not we could call it the beatitudes or we
could just call it the blessings. The blessings.
Yes. I really like that. It really focuses in
on, you know, what Jesus is talking about on
the comfort that the beatitudes, the blessings
bring. Yeah. Yes. But. This week we're talking
about blessed are those who mourn which does
not feel very Blessing. Yeah, like if you are
in a state of mourning You're not like whoo.
I am blessed exactly when you're mourning you're
like the last thing on your mind is feeling blessed.
It really does feel like the opposite of a blessing
yes totally um so the bible uses the word mourning
and some people in our culture talk about mourning
but i think like grief is maybe a more common
word or sort of an interchangeable word so i
think yes like like grieving yeah yeah or just
like this sense of loss yeah right So when I
think about what has mourning looked like in
my life, yes, it happens at a moment where I've
experienced the loss of a person if someone sort
of passes on. But I also think the more poignant
or the more impactful states of mourning in my
life have been the loss of... a place or the
loss of like a community. Yes. So like I had
this experience, you know, when I started university
in the same year that I was I had moved away
to go to school, my parents also at the same
time moved provinces. Oh, and so when I went
home, I guess when I went home for Christmas,
they were still in the same place. But when I
went home for like spring break in February,
they were in a totally new house. And there was
a sense of like. I've lost my community that
I grew up in because I've moved away, but also
because like I don't get to go back there in
the same sense. Right. And there was a lot of
like a period of mourning and grief over that,
I think. Yes, I think that's a really, really
good point, because when we think about mourning,
we tend to think about losing a person. Right.
Which is obviously like, you know, it's devastating.
It's very, very painful. But there's so many
other types of mourning as well. Like you said,
like losing a place or I know for myself, when
the when the lockdown happened due to COVID,
I was in my fourth year of university and we
just all, you know, moved home and then, you
know, graduating online and it was like, you
completed this degree and just kind of close
your laptop and just feeling that sense of like,
I feel like I've I lost something that I kind
of envisioned, you know, like getting that degree
and walking across like a stage and I think that's
a really good point you make where mourning isn't
just people. There's a lot of things that it's
very valid to mourn and feel that grief as well.
Yeah and I think mourning is something that we
don't like doing for a lot of reasons. It's not
a comfortable feeling. It confronts us with all
of these like really painful realities and so
I think then in our culture we often try to like
skip it. Somehow or we compartmentalize it. We're
like, especially I think when it's the loss of
a person we think okay So we're gonna have this
like celebration of life or this this funeral
whatever whatever you want to call it and say,
okay So we'll mourn this one day, but then we'll
just like move on and pretend it's not happening.
Right, right That's a really, really good point
because I do feel like in society, you know,
sometimes it's like you don't want to mourn in
public, right? You kind of want to put on that
facade of like, no, it's fine. You know, everything
happens for a reason, which we learned a couple
weeks ago actually is a biblical. And I think
that is a really good point because mourning
is painful. Yeah. and you have to be in a very
vulnerable space to mourn. Yeah, yeah, totally.
So in light of that, Jesus comes and says, those
who are mourning are blessed. And like we talked
about last week, blessed could be translated
as happy, although in this sense, happy and mourning,
they really come head to head. But there's this
greater sense of like, this is the good life.
The good life includes mourning. So, like, what
do you think about that? Like, why might Jesus
say that? You know, I want to be completely honest.
It's something that it's a little bit hard for
me to wrap my mind around. And I totally I think
it's something that no matter where you're on
in your journey with Christ, it's it's hard to
kind of say, yes, you're right. I am living the
good life if I'm mourning. Right. It's it's definitely
the upside down kingdom that Jesus brings is
definitely evident here. I would say though that
I would say that perhaps Jesus says that because
he's acknowledging the fact that mourning is
a part of the human experience. It's something
that we as people, no matter how hard we try,
we can't avoid. Yeah. And I think it's very,
very meaningful that Jesus, you know, does acknowledge
the pain that people are going through, especially
the pain of mourning, of grief, which can feel
so like endless. It can feel all consuming. And
Jesus is kind of saying, I guess he's saying
like, I'm still there. You are still blessed
and God is with you, even in your pain. Yeah,
totally. I think the other thing that comes to
mind for me, so there's This quote that I came
across that's attributed to Queen Elizabeth that
says grief is the price that you pay for love.
So like because we love deeply or we love well,
we will grieve deeply. Right. Are you a Marvel
fan? Kind of. Kind of. Do you know that quote?
It's with Wanda and Vision where this is a spoiler.
Sorry, anyone who's not caught up. But they say
Vision says that what is grief, if not love enduring?
And I think when we kind of look at it that way,
it does add another level to mourning as well.
You mourn the things and the people that you
love. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think then when I pair
those two things together makes a lot of sense
for like why Jesus is concerned about it. Right.
Because Jesus was all about. love and like Jesus
loving us, loving the world and encouraging us
to like go out and love others. And so like what
it makes me think about is that like this this
sense that grief means that we have loved and
it means that we're like actually paying attention
to what's happening in the world. Wow. Right.
Because like I said, we we would rather avoid
grief. But when you stop and you love a person
or a place or just like love the world in general,
you realize there is so much stuff that is broken
in the world. There is so much to grieve over,
whether it is death or the loss of a community
or just like the cons, like abstract concepts
we can grieve over the idea of war existing,
the idea of illness of whether it's physical
or mental, like all broken systems. are things
that we can grieve over because we love the people
who are broken and hurt by these systems. That's
really, really interesting because, you know,
as we know, it's not easy being a Christian.
You really do go through quite a bit of quite
a bit of change as well as you surrender completely
to Jesus. It's hard, but it's always worthwhile.
And I. For me personally, when I came back to
Christ and I was reading the Bible more and praying
more, I guess the situations in the world became
a lot more evident to me as well. I began to
see a lot more pain and suffering and I began
to mourn a lot more for this world as well because
I understood that people are going through really
difficult things and it's because, you know,
sin has entered our world. They don't know Jesus.
Or even if they do know Jesus, yet they're still
suffering due to the consequences of sin entering
our world. And I think as Christians, mourning,
in a sense, is... Mourning the world is kind
of, in a sense, part of the job description and
mourning the brokenness and the pain that people
are unfortunately going through. Yeah. Yeah,
I love that that morning is sort of part of the
job. Yeah, it's just like part of following the
way of Jesus, because actually, if we look at
scripture like Jesus mourns, God grieves over
sin and brokenness in the world. Like there's
this moment in scripture where Jesus is like
walking up to the city of Jerusalem and he mourns
over all that is broken, all for the exploitation,
over this sense that like he knows. there's this
sense like impending doom in some sense, because
he knows, you know, the state of Jerusalem currently
under the Roman Empire and like what is going
to happen as the city falls and all of these
things. Right. Exactly. And I feel that, you
know, Jesus, he mourned over people, you know,
like John the Baptist. However, he also did mourn
over the world, like he said, like Jerusalem.
And I feel that as Christians. We it's also like,
yeah, like it's part of our job to also mourn
the world as well, to mourn all the pain, because
unfortunately, even though there was a lot of
corruption and pain back then, it's still very,
very evident today. And if if we don't mourn
as Christians, then it's kind of like who is
going to mourn? Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, totally.
And I think it allows us another entry point
for like. Preaching the gospel with our words.
or sorry, with our actions, like as well as as
well as our words, I guess. But like people out
there in the world, whether they're Christians
or not, have things that they are mourning. People
are experiencing loss and grief. And so for us
to come alongside them, we can come alongside
them and say, oh, everything happens for a reason.
Oh, God is is doing something bigger through
this. Or we can come alongside them and say,
yeah, this actually does suck. And you know what?
Like, let's let's mourn this together. And ultimately,
yes, find a way through it and hope. But like
people need you in the pain. Yes, I that's really,
really powerful because exactly like there's
people who so many people are mourning and we
ourselves may be mourning as well. And ultimately,
society kind of, you know, we've kind of learned
to kind of like skip over the pain, skip over
the vulnerable parts. And I think it's really
cool that Jesus is saying, you know, blessed
are the morning because He is paying attention.
He's bringing to attention the fact that mourning
is a part of life. It's not something that you're
just going to skip. You know, there's so many
other things that Jesus could have said. And
I do think it's pretty pointed that he did say
no mourning. And it really highlights the fact
that as much as maybe it's hard for people to
remember me or just me, it's hard for me to admit
that mourning and facing that pain is necessary.
But as Christians, we can go to other people
and we can say that we're mourning, too. You
know, I think society sometimes thinks Christians
are, oh, look, they're so happy. Everything is
great. They believe in God and God is blessing
them. And it's like, yes, God is blessing us.
And we're also we experience mourning. We experience
pain. It's part of the human experience. And
God himself experienced mourning, too. So if
God experienced that. we, why should we escape
it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like
you talked about, you know, people on the outside
looking at Christians and thinking that maybe
they're always happy. I think sometimes we do
that to ourselves too. We think, I need to always
be happy because if I'm sad, it's like a bad
witness. It's like a bad, if I am sad, I'm showing
people, oh, the life of Jesus isn't actually
that great because I'm sad. No, you're just like
living all of life with Jesus, the happy and
the sad. Exactly, exactly. And I think it's,
you know, I think that's something that took
me a long time to understand as well, which is
that you're going to be happy and you're also
going to be sad. However, in all of that, Jesus
is there. He's there for you. He's going to comfort
you. He's going to provide his compassion and
his love as he's always done. So mourning isn't
something you have to avoid. If anything, it's
something that when you openly show mourning
as a Christian. it could bring other people to
you and be like, hey, this is a space that I
feel like is safe for me to mourn and to work
through those emotions and these events. Yeah,
yeah, totally. I think so we've we've talked
about this a little bit and how like the idea
of sin fits into the idea of mourning. But I
guess like there is a spiritual element to this,
right, that sometimes folks will take. the beatitudes
or we'll take this concept of mourning and say
actually what we're mourning is like sin and
therefore it leads us to repentance and I think
that's true. I think there is a very real sense
in which yes I am sad about the personal sins
that I have committed and so therefore it does
lead me to want to change my behavior. But I
think there's also a sense of I'm mourning the
sin in a wider sense. Sin is this word that feels
kind of icky sometimes because we associate it
with me doing bad things. But actually, it's
just a word for the things that are broken in
the world, the things that fall short of God's
hope and dream for the world. Right. And so sin
is not just my thing. It's like, what is broken?
Exactly. And an example that I think of is, you
know, the animals who, you know, when a natural
disaster happens, even man -made disasters, and
those happen because the world is broken, sin
has entered the world. And then I think about
the animals and I think about how they suffer
due to, you know, human action or due to just
things out of their control. And it's like that's,
you know, something to mourn, not even just the
animals, people, children, elderly, everyone.
And it's like we can mourn the fact that Things
happen in the world that are completely out of
our control and they're devastating. And unfortunately,
until, you know, Jesus comes back, it's something
that humans will keep facing. It's, you know,
floods, earthquakes, things like that. Yeah.
Yeah. And and yeah, like I said, it's important
to have a spiritual framework to do that, but
not to sort of over spiritualize it. That's a
good point, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the second
part of this beatitude, Jesus says, blessed are
those who mourn for they will be comforted. And
when I look at that, I'm like, OK, but could
I not just like be comforted without the mourning?
Right. Like that would that would be nicer, wouldn't
it? And also it feels like there's I think this
temptation to say like bad things are good because
you then like get to experience the goodness
out of them. Right? Like, you get the comfort
and you couldn't get the comfort without the
bad thing. Yeah. And there is a logic to that.
That is true. Yeah, I see it. Okay, no, go ahead.
No, I definitely see it. And I think, yeah, like,
you know, that question of like, well, how can
we even feel comfort? You never know that you're
happy unless you've experienced sadness. It's
kind of like that thing, right? However, at the
same time, I still feel like, well, I just...
still don't want to feel the sadness. Yes. I
don't want to feel the mourning. Yes. You know,
I'm I'm sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
I think like we need to be careful that we then
don't say that like the bad stuff is good. Yeah.
Right. The bad stuff, the stuff that is causing
us to mourn is still bad. It's like not not what
we should be doing, not like what God wants for
us. But we still get the comfort. Right. That's
a really good point. And it's kind of we touched
upon it last week as well, where we said, you
know, no one's actively seeking for opportunities
to mourn. Maybe someone is. But I would say for
the majority of us, we're not looking to mourn.
And it's not like we're saying, OK, in order
to receive comfort, I'm going to find something
to mourn. Rather, it's just that. unfortunately
for all human beings, we will all experience
mourning. It's something that is out of our control.
And if it's not mourning a person, it's a place.
If it's not a place and it's just the state of
the world. And I feel that again, the blessings
for me, they always provide so much comfort because
it kind of is Jesus saying that you will experience
mourning and I'm going to still be there for
you. I'm going to come for you and I'm going
to guide you through this. you know, rely on
me. And I feel like that that is really comforting
and it helps me to live life. Yeah, totally.
So what do you think it means to be comforted?
Like, this is the sort of the promise that comes
out of this. Those who mourn will be comforted.
Like, what does that mean? So it means like the
presence of Christ, the presence of God with
us. What else maybe does that mean or look like?
Hmm. I would say. immediately my mind does go
into the presence of Christ. I used to think
that, you know, being comforted or, you know,
God being there for you was God suddenly fixing
everything. Right. You know, it's like, oh, you're
mourning. OK, let me remove that thing, like
remove, you know, bring that back or something.
Right. But I've realized that God doesn't always
work that way. what He does promise is that He
is going to be there. So I do feel like it is
the presence of Christ. In terms of other forms
of comfort, I think it's just, you know, we as
humans, we can also comfort each other as well,
right? And comfort can just be being there for
people, acknowledging that you can't fix the
problem, but you're going to be there with Ears
to listen with a heart that cares compassion
love and kindness Yeah, totally and I think that
is equally God providing comfort God just like
does it through people right like there there
are moments and I have experienced moments in
my life where I'm Alone, there's no other people
there, but I feel a sense of like peace or comfort
that it like is coming from God But equally and
more often, there have been moments where I feel
comfort because another person is providing a
listening ear, is providing practical support,
whatever it is. And that is still God giving
me comfort. It's like doing it in a different
way, I guess. Right. And that's interesting because
I know for me as a person, sometimes whenever
I go through, you know, experiencing something
difficult and I know a lot of people could relate
to this is that You know, we do it alone. We're
like, OK, I'm going to mourn, but I'm going to
do it alone. I don't want to do it in front of
someone. However, when we choose that or when
we kind of, you know, choose to retreat or isolate
in a way, we're choosing not the comfort sometimes.
And as Christians, it is really important to
be in a community. It is really important to
be with other believers. And perhaps, yeah, that
is what Jesus also means by comforted, which
is that if you mourn, you will be comforted by,
you know, the community I've placed you in or
the people I've placed around you. Yeah. And
so I think that comfort looks like different
things at different moments. Like sometimes it
is a listening ear. Sometimes it is just a feeling
within ourselves of peace. But sometimes it's
much more practical, right? In small town communities
and sometimes in other communities, when someone
dies, that family is often surrounded by practical
support. People bringing them meals, people just
showing up and being together and all of these
things, right? That is comfort. Exactly. That's
a really, really good point, too. And I think
that's another way that Christians, we can kind
of show up and show the love of Christ, which
is providing comforts through those practical
means as well. Yeah. The other thing that I was
reading about and sort of reflecting on this
week in terms of comfort is that it's interesting
that what Christ offers us here is comfort and
not like revenge. Because sometimes when we're
mourning, particularly when we're mourning and
we can find a person to blame, we're like, ah,
you or this is the reason that I am sad right
now. Our instinct is not to ask for comfort.
Our instinct is to ask God to smite them. Or
God be like, no, knock them down from their place
of power. But Christ is not offering us revenge.
Christ is offering us comfort. Right. And then
it's like, well, if I took revenge, wouldn't
I feel comforted? Because this is down. And Jesus
is like, no, that's not. No, no. And I think
you raise a really good point, because when you
mourn, there is a lot of anger to it. Totally.
It's part of the process. You know, and I think
we will then find maybe a way to kind of express
or let out that anger. And it's not always going
to be in a healthy way. And I feel like, yeah,
it's like, Jesus is saying that, you know, in
a way, it kind of is like surrendering to Jesus
to say, like, I'm really, really mad that this
happened. I'm really, really mad that this is
broken or that I've lost this. And instead of
seeking, taking things into my own hands, I'm
going to go to you and seek your comfort and
leave this to you, which is hard. Totally. Yeah.
I think there is a place in scripture we see
people praying, God, take them down from their
throne. Like, God, I am mad about this thing.
And like, take them down because they hurt me.
They're the enemy. And so there's a place for
us to ask that of God. But our response... to,
like, God's action should not be dependent on
God answering that prayer in the way that we
think God should answer that prayer. Right? That
Jesus' scripture, the story of scripture, tells
us there is a place for anger. There is a place
for saying, God, this is not fair. But in this
particular instance, what Christ is offering
is comfort. And Christ is saying, this gift of
comfort maybe will come through a person falling
from their throne. Maybe it won't, but Your comfort
does not depend on what happens in the other
person's life. That's a really, really good point.
And I really, I like that because it really kind
of aligns with the, you know, I feel sometimes
when we're angry and we act out on that anger,
whether that's revenge or anything, consequences
do happen. There have been many times where I'm
not in a great mood, I'm upset, and then I act
in a way and later I'm like, that was kind of
mean and I kind of really regret that. It didn't
fit with my values. I don't feel proud to have
done that. Ultimately, when God is telling us
something, he tells us it because it's for our
benefit. He is protecting us. He sees the whole
picture. And sometimes, you know, it's him saying,
hey, choose comfort, choose me, because it can
lead to the less consequences. And you can feel
a little bit better about yourself the next day.
You can feel a little bit prouder of yourself.
It's hard, but it's always worth it to choose
comfort instead of anger or revenge. Yeah, yeah,
totally. So last week we talked about this beatitude
blessed are the poor in spirit for they will
see the kingdom of God This week blessed are
those who mourn for they will be comforted How
do you see the like relationship between those
two things? Well, I feel that you know when you're
going through periods of mourning I would say
you are also poor in spirit. Yeah and so Yeah,
I definitely think they tie into each other,
but I think it's really cool that Jesus is still
saying, you know, kind of like that same message
of like you don't choose the fact that you're
going to be poor in spirit or that you will mourn.
However, through all of those situations, I'm
going to be there. I think throughout all the
Beatitudes that one common denominator is Jesus
and his comfort and his presence and his kingdom.
Yeah, yeah, totally. I think. You're right that
when we are mourning, we are sort of poor in
spirit in that sense of like, yeah, feeling down
and defeated. I also think those who are poor
in spirit have a lot to mourn often. Right. Like
if we think about last week, we talked about,
you know, this connection, poor in spirit is
a spiritual emotional concept, but it is also
a material concept that folks are living in a
poverty of material, like not having enough material
wealth. And when you are in that state, there
is a lot to mourn. Yes. Obviously, as we talked
about last week, God is there. God brings blessing
in that in a way. But there there is a lot that's
like just like beating you down. Yeah. Right.
And a lot that makes you feel really powerless.
Yeah. And so Jesus says when you're in that state
and you are mourning, because I think they they
go hand in hand. I am there. And you are getting
this kingdom of God that we talked about last
week, the sense that God is there, God is doing
a thing right now, and God is giving you a promise
for the future. And so that's the kingdom of
God and comfort and a sense of peace and a sense
of, you know, there's goodness right now that
you're not facing this morning alone. Right.
And I like that you mentioned, you know, not
just the spiritual aspects, but also the physical
aspects of the world as well. Right. Of course,
you know, poor in spirit doesn't necessarily
mean just inside. It can also be material things,
tangible things. Yeah. And oftentimes we will
mourn things that are a little bit maybe less
spiritual, more like tangible things as well,
like of the world, kind of thing. Yeah, mourning
a person, mourning the loss of a home, mourning
the loss of a job, whatever it is. Exactly, yeah.
And I think it's really cool that it's kind of
like no matter where you're at in life, no matter
what you're mourning, no matter what it is, no
matter where you are, Jesus is always going to
find you. He's always going to provide you with
that comfort no matter where you're at. And He's
experienced it, too. And so I think. That's just
something that I always think is so cool is that
God has experienced human pain. He has experienced
mourning and grief and loss. And I just think
that's so cool that He chose to enter a human
body and to experience those things for us. And
so when we go to God, you know, and we say, God,
like, this isn't fair. Like, why is this happening?
We can be assured that His comfort is genuine
because He's out here saying, like, I've been
there. I know how you feel. And I will provide
you with comfort. And perhaps that's something
for us as Christians to do is to say, you know,
take our pain, take our mourning and then use
that to help other people as well. Whether they're
mourning the loss of something physical or spiritual,
emotional, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah, I think this has been really helpful to
think through. Yeah, what what morning even looks
like and and and why it's such a part of our
lives, but then also The meaning that can come
out of it again not saying that the morning is
good, right? But that God redeems Yeah, right
that God provides us with what we need in that
moment Even in the midst of a place that like
God would never wish for us to be in exactly
I really I really really like that and you know,
that word, redeem, because sometimes when you're
mourning, when you're going through that pain,
it really feels like it's endless. You really
are like, I don't know how this is ever going
to get better unless that thing comes back. But
God always finds a way. He always finds a way
to redeem. I think it's important as Christians,
though, to take that step too towards God. I
think that when you're mourning, you can maybe
go to God and be like, oh, this is unfair. Please
smite that person on their office chair right
now or something. But I think that in order to
receive that comfort, we also have to take a
step of still acknowledging God in this, whether
that's through anger, sadness, joy, whatever.
Because I've gone through times where I've mourned
and I didn't go to God and I didn't feel that
comfort because I just wanted to handle it all
on my own. And I think Jesus is reminding us
that you will be comforted, but you do have to
come to me. You do have to include me in all
this. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, this has been
really good. Thank you so much, Melissa. Yeah.
And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. I hope that you have experienced
some comfort in our conversation and that whatever
it is that is causing mourning or grief in your
life. I encourage you to find a way to bring
that to God and to trust that God is with you
in it, even if you don't want to be in it. And
we'll see you again next week as we continue
talking about the Beatitudes. See you then.