WEBVTT 00:00:02.869 --> 00:00:05.610 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Trinity 00:00:05.610 --> 00:00:09.250 Talks. My name is Kyla and this week I am so 00:00:09.250 --> 00:00:11.849 excited to be sitting down with Rochelle and 00:00:11.849 --> 00:00:15.789 Linda to mark the National Indigenous Peoples 00:00:15.789 --> 00:00:19.969 Day which happens on June 21st here in Canada. 00:00:21.449 --> 00:00:22.890 And yeah, Linda and Rochelle are just going to 00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:26.359 talk to us a little bit about... how that day 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:28.940 and the history of Indigenous people in Canada 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:32.420 intersects with our faith and the history of 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:35.219 the church in Canada. So I'm really looking forward 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:37.219 to this conversation. Thank you for joining me, 00:00:37.219 --> 00:00:41.399 ladies. Thank you so much, Kyla. Yeah. We'll 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:43.420 get you to start by introducing yourselves. So 00:00:43.420 --> 00:00:45.359 maybe Rochelle, do you want to go first? Sure. 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.679 OK, so yeah, thanks for having us today. My name 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:51.219 is Rochelle. I have been going to Trinity for 00:00:51.219 --> 00:00:55.179 about three years. Grew up in Canada. I live 00:00:55.179 --> 00:00:58.560 in Mississauga, grew up in Northern Ontario in 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.939 a place called Sioux Lookout with my mother here, 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.579 my dad and my older sister. And yeah, we're going 00:01:06.579 --> 00:01:11.260 to be chatting about... Indigenous Peoples' Day 00:01:11.260 --> 00:01:14.799 a little bit, and so, or how, I guess, being 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.079 Indigenous interacts with our faith. And so, 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:19.040 yeah, I'm First Nation. I'll let my mom speak 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.700 a little bit more to that. But we are part of 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:26.319 a people group called the Severin Cree. And yeah, 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:29.680 so that's the kind of the groundwork for why 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.140 I'm here. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Go ahead. 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:37.340 My name is Linda Martin and as Rochelle said, 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:42.719 I'm her mom and I'm originally from a place called 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:48.439 Muscrat Dam. It's an isolated community and I 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.760 married 40 years ago and since then I haven't 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:54.790 been able to live back in the community. Presently 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:58.069 we live just outside Winnipeg and both my husband 00:01:58.069 --> 00:02:01.969 and I are doing mission work for 25 years now. 00:02:02.290 --> 00:02:07.189 Okay, very cool. So my first question, I want 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.810 to sort of root us in your faith backgrounds. 00:02:10.710 --> 00:02:13.530 So when did you first learn about Jesus and what 00:02:13.530 --> 00:02:16.150 was that sort of faith experience like for you? 00:02:16.210 --> 00:02:21.229 Do you want to start, Linda? Okay. I grew up 00:02:21.229 --> 00:02:28.370 just knowing about God and knowing of God. And 00:02:28.370 --> 00:02:34.509 God was real to me. And I know that a lot of 00:02:34.509 --> 00:02:37.689 our history as Indigenous people, many of my 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:43.939 people, the Indigenous people, don't... I struggle 00:02:43.939 --> 00:02:51.259 with believing in God, and that comes from the 00:02:51.259 --> 00:02:54.479 experiences we've had with the church and through 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:57.300 the residential school system and the colonization. 00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:02.219 But it was about 20 years ago that I realized 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:04.979 that we had that history, that kind of history, 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:12.020 about 25 years ago. I knew about it, but... I 00:03:12.020 --> 00:03:14.900 began to really understand the impact that has 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:20.620 had on us as a nation. So myself, I've always 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:26.639 believed in God, knew of God. And then, I mean, 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.360 I'm just curious, because I know you've shared 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:32.500 this with me. Growing up, you would hear your 00:03:32.500 --> 00:03:36.699 grandmother share stories of God and Jesus in 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:39.680 the Bible. And so from a very young age, you... 00:03:39.770 --> 00:03:42.710 Mm -hmm. Heard those stories, right? Mm -hmm. 00:03:42.710 --> 00:03:48.030 Mm -hmm. Because the way our family was structured, 00:03:48.449 --> 00:03:52.030 my grandparents are a very big part of our, like, 00:03:52.210 --> 00:03:54.550 day -to -day living. Sure. Many nights we would 00:03:54.550 --> 00:03:58.129 go over to sleep over at my grandparents' house 00:03:58.129 --> 00:04:02.699 and our tent, not house. And so she would tell 00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:05.520 us stories of Jesus and stories about God as 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.199 bedtime stories. Right. And from there on, like 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:10.520 as a six, seven year old, you just heard about 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.280 God. Right. In that way. And that became part 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.319 of the formation or the foundation of my faith. 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.240 Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And I think, 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.759 you know, Mom, you can share a bit more maybe 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:29.019 later, but your story then of becoming a young 00:04:29.019 --> 00:04:34.240 woman and Meeting God in a in a new way impacted 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:39.060 your life then and so for me You know you and 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:41.439 dad got married and at the time you got married 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:43.300 you were Christians. You're both Christians So 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:46.000 for me, I grew up in a home then right from the 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.199 get -go was Christian, right? We went to church. 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:52.519 I saw you guys reading your Bibles and praying 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:57.240 and so Yeah, I just grew up in a Christian home. 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:01.769 And so yeah, that's kind of like the beginnings 00:05:01.769 --> 00:05:04.550 of my journey sure yeah yeah yeah that's cool 00:05:04.550 --> 00:05:08.449 are there ways linda that you think your faith 00:05:08.449 --> 00:05:11.110 as a child was like different than the way that 00:05:11.110 --> 00:05:13.329 you know rachelle might have experienced faith 00:05:13.329 --> 00:05:16.310 as a child or were they sort of similar stories 00:05:16.310 --> 00:05:22.329 similar ways of of thinking about it so i think 00:05:22.329 --> 00:05:28.569 for me like As indigenous people of Canada, we 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:31.850 were missionized by different denominations. 00:05:32.629 --> 00:05:35.569 In my tribal area, there's about 52 communities. 00:05:36.189 --> 00:05:40.149 We had the Anglican Church that came to us, came 00:05:40.149 --> 00:05:44.970 to our villages and brought the message of Jesus 00:05:44.970 --> 00:05:54.589 to us. And so for me, I think just Coming to 00:05:54.589 --> 00:06:00.230 learn about Jesus from outside was how I began 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.810 to understand, know of God, understand God. And 00:06:04.810 --> 00:06:07.930 whereas with Rachelle, it was just she was born 00:06:07.930 --> 00:06:11.910 into it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know that. 00:06:11.910 --> 00:06:14.009 That definitely sort of sets a bit of a different 00:06:14.009 --> 00:06:16.430 tone, right? Whether this is something that you 00:06:16.430 --> 00:06:18.550 feel like is really part of you or if it's something 00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:21.610 that you're still trying to bring the pieces 00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:26.189 together, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So 00:06:26.189 --> 00:06:31.009 how has your indigenous identity shaped your 00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:38.470 experience or your understanding of faith? Because 00:06:38.470 --> 00:06:47.589 of my early introduction to God and understanding 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:53.720 of God and knowing about God. It was kind of, 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:57.459 it just kind of became a natural progression 00:06:57.459 --> 00:07:00.660 of my journey. When I came to a hard place in 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.759 my life as a young woman, it was to God I turned 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:09.699 to. And I called out to God. And I really experienced 00:07:09.699 --> 00:07:14.019 God answering my prayer. And He became real to 00:07:14.019 --> 00:07:16.220 me. And from there on, it was like a personal 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:21.170 commitment that I made. But I can't say that 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:26.029 to the rest of my Indigenous people in Canada, 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:31.029 because a large percentage of my people, probably 00:07:31.029 --> 00:07:35.850 like 90%, they went through the residential school 00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:39.750 system. I have aunts and uncles and first cousins 00:07:39.750 --> 00:07:44.430 that went to the residential school. And there 00:07:44.430 --> 00:07:52.110 they experienced the concept of God as being 00:07:52.110 --> 00:07:56.069 like something that they had to do. Like there 00:07:56.069 --> 00:07:59.329 were ritual prayers that they had to do, even 00:07:59.329 --> 00:08:03.029 the Lord's Prayer was something. It was a ritual 00:08:03.029 --> 00:08:07.790 prayer that they were asked to do in order to 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:13.069 pray. So it was more like a legalistic or a system 00:08:13.069 --> 00:08:19.959 in some ways that was brought the concept of 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:24.060 God or the reality of God. And so as part of 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:27.439 the reaction to that pain, to that trauma in 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.600 the residential schools, Christianity and the 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.600 concept, and God is one of the things that they 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.120 said that they're not, are experiencing as not 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:38.559 wanting to be part of their life in the present. 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:46.980 And I think for me, we work in the field of trauma. 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:51.159 And one of the things that we talk about or teach 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.299 the people that we work with is that one of the 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:58.039 initial impacts of trauma is to have all or nothing 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:02.159 thinking, which is like, for example, for my 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:06.500 people, coming away from a traumatic experience, 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:09.340 having maybe been in a residential school for 00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:12.659 seven years and having experienced emotional 00:09:12.659 --> 00:09:17.659 abuse, physical abuse, and spiritual abuse. Many 00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:21.740 of them came away not wanting to be part of that 00:09:21.740 --> 00:09:25.379 because it was hurtful to them. So trauma, one 00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:28.460 of the reactions from trauma is that all or nothing 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:33.639 thinking that all churches are bad. And part 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:36.820 of our healing needs to be to come to a place 00:09:36.820 --> 00:09:41.100 that where we recognize that not all churches 00:09:41.100 --> 00:09:43.620 are bad. There are some really good churches. 00:09:44.419 --> 00:09:48.419 And the same idea is to being in a relationship 00:09:48.419 --> 00:09:51.840 or getting to know non -Indigenous people. I'm 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:56.559 married to a non -Indigenous man. And so my healing 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:00.039 in that journey with another people group, even 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:04.299 though the non -Indigenous people were our colonizers 00:10:04.299 --> 00:10:08.200 and are the settlers, and a lot of pain has come 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:12.509 from that, even to this day. For me part of my 00:10:12.509 --> 00:10:15.450 healing has been to learn to understand that 00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:18.690 There are some really good non -indigenous people, 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:25.370 right and some really Non -indigenous people 00:10:25.370 --> 00:10:28.809 that still hurt you today. Yeah, and I see that 00:10:28.809 --> 00:10:33.289 today even in the political mm -hmm World. Yeah. 00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:36.769 Oh for sure for sure. Yeah Yeah, it's interesting 00:10:36.769 --> 00:10:39.970 for you to sort of draw. I'll you know what your 00:10:40.190 --> 00:10:43.429 personal experience has been, but also what the 00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:45.710 experience of indigenous people in general has 00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:49.409 been, right? And sort of recognizing that you 00:10:49.409 --> 00:10:51.970 had this really important moment where you know 00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:54.509 God sort of more intimately, and you know God 00:10:54.509 --> 00:11:00.070 as someone who saves and heals. But yeah, against 00:11:00.070 --> 00:11:03.889 this backdrop of indigenous people's experience 00:11:03.889 --> 00:11:06.149 in general, which has been Yeah, as you said, 00:11:06.330 --> 00:11:09.389 sort of more legalistic or more painful at times, 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:12.950 right? It's recognizing all of these different 00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:18.610 pieces are true at the same time. Yes. And when 00:11:18.610 --> 00:11:22.289 you're right in the midst of it, it's hard to 00:11:22.289 --> 00:11:24.330 see beyond the pain that you're going through. 00:11:24.350 --> 00:11:28.129 Yeah. And I see that still today with my people 00:11:28.129 --> 00:11:34.419 group. We are still in that place of in the middle 00:11:34.419 --> 00:11:37.899 of that pain. And a lot of it too is like we 00:11:37.899 --> 00:11:40.879 are just learning right now to find our voices 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:44.480 and to begin to name the things that have happened 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.299 to us because for so many years, hundreds of 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:51.720 years actually, you know, we were silenced. The 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.500 colonization had a systemic approach the way 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:59.940 they took away our culture, our children, our 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:04.730 families. And it's really, when there's a systemic 00:12:04.730 --> 00:12:10.149 assimilation, it's really hard to see it happen 00:12:10.149 --> 00:12:14.830 because it happens over generations. So part 00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:19.029 of my journey has been learning to understand 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:24.490 that. And for me, what I see happening, like 00:12:24.490 --> 00:12:28.860 with Richelle, Each generation is going to know 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:32.360 more about our history and how we can get better. 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:36.879 And we can get stronger. Each generation gets 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:42.039 more educated, has more understanding, and healing 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.779 will take place as we understand more. Yeah, 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:50.679 and I think to your point there, as I've grown 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.799 up Christian, and then as I became an adult, 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.769 learned about our history and so began to question, 00:12:57.970 --> 00:13:00.330 okay, as a Christian, what does this mean for 00:13:00.330 --> 00:13:05.470 me? How do I wrestle with this tension? But working 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:08.509 through all of that and then coming to a place 00:13:08.509 --> 00:13:12.850 where I think actually my identity as an indigenous 00:13:12.850 --> 00:13:17.649 woman and the traditions and the culture, like 00:13:17.649 --> 00:13:19.250 as we've been reclaiming our culture, that's 00:13:19.250 --> 00:13:22.309 a big thing that's happening now among my generation 00:13:22.309 --> 00:13:25.389 and my cousins and younger. there's this reclamation 00:13:25.389 --> 00:13:30.409 of culture. And like, for me, as a Christian, 00:13:30.470 --> 00:13:33.129 God has really blessed that journey and been 00:13:33.129 --> 00:13:38.909 like, it's almost been, it's expanded my understanding 00:13:38.909 --> 00:13:42.129 of God, to be honest, and just how beautiful 00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:45.110 culture is, how He created culture. He wants 00:13:45.110 --> 00:13:47.330 it to be celebrated. You know, He created us 00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:51.350 all so diverse. And as someone who is part of 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:54.230 a people group, that I've looked at our history 00:13:54.230 --> 00:13:56.990 and been like, oh, wow, like that stuff was taken 00:13:56.990 --> 00:14:00.830 away from my family members. Even the right to 00:14:00.830 --> 00:14:03.090 be a parent was taken away. Their culture was 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:06.610 taken away. The language was taken away. As we're 00:14:06.610 --> 00:14:08.710 reclaiming that, I'm like, God says that's good, 00:14:08.909 --> 00:14:10.710 right? God says that's good to reclaim this, 00:14:11.190 --> 00:14:13.870 to celebrate it, to see the beauty in it. So 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:17.370 there was a time where I had tension between 00:14:17.370 --> 00:14:19.470 these two identities, but I've come to a place 00:14:19.470 --> 00:14:22.149 where I've been like, oh, God really blesses 00:14:22.149 --> 00:14:27.629 that. Right, yeah. And in addition to what Rochelle 00:14:27.629 --> 00:14:30.909 is saying, I think for me, another thing I struggled 00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:34.850 with is my sense of identity. Like who am I? 00:14:34.970 --> 00:14:39.389 Because even our, the education system at a great 00:14:39.389 --> 00:14:43.330 school level, it was all like, I graduated, I 00:14:43.330 --> 00:14:45.889 finished grade eight thinking that the social 00:14:45.889 --> 00:14:51.240 studies, the early explorers that I learned in 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.559 my social studies classes, thinking that was 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:57.659 my history. Right. Thinking so part of my journey 00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:59.820 has been to separate that and recognize, no, 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.860 that's not my history. Right. But what is my 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:08.340 history? I didn't have history. So part of my 00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:14.200 journey has been to recognize the impact that 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:18.019 all that has had on us, on me individually, like 00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:20.820 the sense of oppression, being an oppressed people, 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.940 and having shame as a shame that tells you you 00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:27.879 don't have a place in society. Shame that says 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.440 you're invisible, shame that says you don't have 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.120 anything important to say. In that journey of 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:38.100 oppression and the experience of shame, is when 00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:41.620 I began to understand too that, no, it is God 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:44.759 who has created me and who I am as an indigenous 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.840 woman. Genesis 1, 26, 27 talks about that, that 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.840 God created us as male and female. And so once 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.519 I could begin to understand that, I too began 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:02.350 to see the beauty of different nationalities, 00:16:02.649 --> 00:16:05.509 different people groups, that we all represent 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:09.970 something of who God is, like the whole world. 00:16:10.309 --> 00:16:14.250 And that doesn't even capture who God is. But 00:16:14.250 --> 00:16:17.950 we see the beauty of all different nationalities, 00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:21.409 and all of us reflect something of who God is. 00:16:21.409 --> 00:16:25.230 And I just see that as beautiful. And that includes 00:16:25.230 --> 00:16:29.399 me and my nation. that we have something to bring, 00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:32.179 that we have something that we reflect of who 00:16:32.179 --> 00:16:36.159 God is. Yeah, for sure. Well, that's so good. 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.039 It's interesting to sort of hear you both reflect 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.240 on a sort of similar theme of, right, like bringing 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:47.179 your indigenous identity and your Christian identity 00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:51.759 together. And I'm wondering in terms of like 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.169 timelines of that, like has that journey Lined 00:16:55.169 --> 00:16:57.690 up for both of you or have you been doing that 00:16:57.690 --> 00:17:00.090 at different times? And how have you supported 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.169 one another sort of through that? Tell me to 00:17:03.169 --> 00:17:07.089 share first. Okay I think different timelines 00:17:07.089 --> 00:17:11.650 I think but maybe similar in terms of when it 00:17:11.650 --> 00:17:13.690 happened to us, but I can't speak for you. So 00:17:13.690 --> 00:17:18.910 for me I Again group Christian and then when 00:17:18.910 --> 00:17:22.029 I started learning about this the history of 00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:24.930 our country and the oppression that people, my 00:17:24.930 --> 00:17:27.750 people have experienced, people I love. And then 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:30.349 you start hearing about aunts and uncles who 00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.630 went to residential school and went to, these 00:17:32.630 --> 00:17:34.849 were run by churches. And you start having all 00:17:34.849 --> 00:17:38.910 these questions, almost like a crisis of faith, 00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:41.769 where you're like, how could this have happened 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:46.269 to people I love, by people I love? And how do 00:17:46.269 --> 00:17:50.920 I now Live in this tension and so that happened 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:56.079 in my early late teens early 20s really wrestled 00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:01.940 with that and then again more recently with the 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.640 Discovery of the unmarked graves in Kamloops 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:10.259 and that was 20 was that 2019 We can fact -check 00:18:10.259 --> 00:18:14.039 that but when that happened it it honestly like 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.690 resurged it was like a resurgence of anger And 00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:20.609 another crisis of faith where I said, we knew 00:18:20.609 --> 00:18:23.049 this happened. I knew this happened. But how 00:18:23.049 --> 00:18:27.210 could this have happened again? And it was really 00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:30.430 hard for me to reconcile how these two pieces 00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:36.849 could go together. And it was hard. Church was 00:18:36.849 --> 00:18:39.769 a hard place to be in because there was so much 00:18:39.769 --> 00:18:42.609 going on in my head. I was looking around and 00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:46.150 just having really... Like just a, just a challenging 00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:48.589 time saying, how can I step foot in a church 00:18:48.589 --> 00:18:53.329 with what has happened? Like because of the church 00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:56.829 and fell into very all or nothing thinking where 00:18:56.829 --> 00:18:59.549 I was like, okay, this is all bad. All of it's 00:18:59.549 --> 00:19:02.289 bad. And, you know, just kind of spiraling. Um, 00:19:02.589 --> 00:19:06.529 but you know, the thing that was consistent through 00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:10.609 it all was my faith in God. And God is faithful. 00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:15.670 And he was with me through that time and was 00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:19.430 able to reveal himself through it as good. And 00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:24.509 that reminder that, okay, God is good. God is 00:19:24.509 --> 00:19:27.390 faithful. The example of Jesus in the Bible, 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:31.569 he's a justice seeker. you know, he looks out 00:19:31.569 --> 00:19:35.089 for the oppressed, he loves children. Those messages 00:19:35.089 --> 00:19:40.210 were deeply rooted enough in my heart that I 00:19:40.210 --> 00:19:43.210 came to a place where I said, okay, God is good. 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:48.069 People do bad things sometimes. But even, you 00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:50.210 know, being part of Trinity, being part of a 00:19:50.210 --> 00:19:52.650 church community for so many years, I was able 00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:55.529 to then look at the people I had built relationships 00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:59.079 with and been like, There are good people. These 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.160 are good people pursuing reconciliation, pursuing 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:06.259 friendship. And then there's also, you know, 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.079 like what's happened in the past was awful. There 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.480 needs to be justice served and we're still pursuing 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.559 that, right, on this journey of reconciliation. 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:17.900 But anyways, yes, that's how it kind of went 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:24.019 unraveled for me. I think for me it was in my 00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:29.740 early 30s. And I had been, I was doing, I did 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:33.019 a three year BA in social sciences and it was 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:36.880 in my sociology classes, courses that I began 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.880 to see what happened in this country. And I remember 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.660 that one year when I understood what's happened 00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:52.519 to us as indigenous people. There was a sense 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.599 of anger that I had. And everywhere I looked 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.640 and I saw non -Indigenous people, there was anger 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.190 that came. And I was kind of in a conflict because 00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:07.950 I was already married to a non -indigenous family. 00:21:08.210 --> 00:21:13.289 Wait, I love this man. He's white. Exactly. But 00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:16.430 I didn't not get to that place yet where I understood 00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:18.869 the impact of trauma is having a black and white 00:21:18.869 --> 00:21:21.130 thinking. I wasn't there yet. It was more like... 00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:23.589 But that's a confusing place to be. Oh, it is. 00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:26.950 It is. There's so much conflict. And I think 00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:30.599 many of my people never... get past that conflict. 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:35.519 They understand now we've been hurt by the system, 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:41.559 whatever that is. We've been hurt by the system, 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:45.980 and there's so much anger. And I think many of 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:51.319 us are still stuck in that. So for me, it was 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:56.619 in my early 30s that I realized what had happened. 00:21:57.470 --> 00:22:01.150 And there was anger. And I remember one day down 00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:05.829 in the Kichina Waterloo area, we were at the 00:22:05.829 --> 00:22:09.609 gas station and I saw these little non -Indigenous 00:22:09.609 --> 00:22:14.829 kids. And these are innocent children. You felt 00:22:14.829 --> 00:22:18.190 anger because they represented a nation that 00:22:18.190 --> 00:22:24.500 hurt us. And during that time also, it was like 00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:28.619 I was looking at my reality, the world in like 00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:32.059 split level. It's constantly going back and forth. 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.980 It's the dissonance of being, I think, an Aboriginal 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.619 person today. You keep going back and forth in 00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:45.740 the two worlds and all. But I have come to a 00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:50.069 place of, again, I see the beauty of God's creation 00:22:50.069 --> 00:22:53.670 of all humanity, that we all represent something 00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:59.630 beautiful of who God is. I'm in my sixties now, 00:22:59.769 --> 00:23:04.759 so that was a long time ago talking to God. When 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.000 you were talking, Rachelle, about recognizing 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.680 that God is faithful, even in the midst of really 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.160 hard things, the thing that came to mind for 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.039 me was, God is faithful even when God's people 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.400 aren't faithful. God is still good even when 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:21.859 people do things in the name of God that are 00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:25.660 not good. And learning to sort of tease out those 00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:28.240 differences, I think, is a really important step 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.839 in the journey. And that it wasn't God. It wasn't 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.200 God that did those things to us. That needs to 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.700 be part of the discernment in our healing journey. 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:40.960 Even though many of those residential schools 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:43.880 were run by the government in partnership with 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:46.640 the churches, like the Catholic churches, the 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.500 United Church, and then the Anglican Church. 00:23:50.539 --> 00:23:53.680 They were in partnership to run these schools. 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.430 But if you don't... If you're not on that healing 00:23:58.430 --> 00:24:01.390 journey or have healed from it, you still believe 00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:09.269 that those are bad places, hurtful places. I 00:24:09.269 --> 00:24:14.470 lost my train of thought. So, Linda, you do a 00:24:14.470 --> 00:24:17.069 lot of work with indigenous Christian leaders 00:24:17.069 --> 00:24:20.829 and helping them heal from trauma. So can you 00:24:20.829 --> 00:24:22.910 just explain to us a little bit, what does that 00:24:22.910 --> 00:24:26.099 work? look like? What are you doing on a sort 00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:32.099 of regular basis? So a lot of it is teaching. 00:24:32.259 --> 00:24:36.240 Okay. And teaching through workshop presentations 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:40.660 to our guest speakers in different places. And 00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:44.859 one of the things that we really are excited 00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:48.359 about is bringing reconciliation between the 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.619 two people groups. Like I said, my husband's 00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:55.460 family is from this area. And for the longest 00:24:55.460 --> 00:24:58.839 time I had, like, I could not connect because 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.519 the two realities, the two worlds, my world and 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:06.619 his world, they're just miles apart. But now 00:25:06.619 --> 00:25:09.500 there's so much that has happened since then. 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.880 A bridge has been made through reconciliation. 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.519 Like his home church is one of the churches that 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:19.920 sponsor us now. And actually, there's a team 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:21.980 from there that's going to my home community 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:24.619 to do a summer camp. This is going to be their 00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:30.660 third summer. Third summer. So we do a lot of 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.160 teaching. What kind of topics are you teaching 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:39.299 on? It's trauma, loss and grief, and any personal 00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:45.140 experiences, abuse. We help. We talk about those. 00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:49.559 And my husband, Rick, he mentors a lot of Indigenous 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.279 men. Another thing we talk about in healing from 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:56.220 trauma is that you need to have a relationship 00:25:56.220 --> 00:26:00.819 that is consistent over a period of time to help 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:04.440 begin to be part of a healing in an Indigenous 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:10.440 person, befriend an Indigenous person. Rick says 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:18.980 that if every person In society, in Canada, befriended 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:23.599 an Indigenous person, every one of you guys, 00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:27.640 befriended an Indigenous person, the face of 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.759 society would look different today. Because there 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:34.599 would be so much understanding. It creates empathy 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.140 when you get to know an Indigenous person. There's 00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:42.500 empathy that begins to happen and you just begin 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:47.269 to have a heart. for my people and I want things 00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:55.329 to change. So teaching on abuse issues, one of 00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:58.049 the models that we use in our presentations is 00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:02.170 that we... We have four stages that we talked 00:27:02.170 --> 00:27:05.349 about. First stage is what we call reactionary 00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:08.670 stage. And at this stage, it's more like you 00:27:08.670 --> 00:27:10.809 reacting to the pain that you've carried. It 00:27:10.809 --> 00:27:13.829 doesn't matter how far back, 20 years, 30 years, 00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:18.390 maybe you were abused, whoever, you know? And 00:27:18.390 --> 00:27:20.950 there's a lot of anger. And to cope with that, 00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:24.589 there's a lot of addiction and a lot of depression 00:27:24.589 --> 00:27:30.519 and suicide. Second stage is understand what 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:32.759 happened to you. Begin to name what happened. 00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.319 You know, what emotions do you still carry? Anger, 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:44.420 shame, you know, anxiety. And then third is beginning 00:27:44.420 --> 00:27:48.500 to know how you can move on. And when you get 00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:51.960 to this stage, you have a heart for other people. 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:57.279 Your heart begins to... heal and open up for 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.259 other people rather than being so focused on 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.259 the present. My pain, just getting through each 00:28:03.259 --> 00:28:06.200 day, day to day reaction to life. You're not 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.680 even living in some ways. And then the fourth 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.920 stage is you're at the place where you believe, 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.640 you are created in the image of God, but we live 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.500 in a fallen world. And people will still disappoint 00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:24.460 you. People will abandon you. People will hurt 00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:29.079 you. But that doesn't change who God is. God 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:31.880 is still God. And that's who we need to believe 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.799 because His promises is... One of His promises 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.420 that is long -standing right from the Old Testament 00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:41.500 to the New Testament to this day is that I will 00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:44.940 never leave you nor forsake you. For me, that's 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:52.029 one of the promises that anchors me. That's one 00:28:52.029 --> 00:28:57.190 of my anchors. But He will never, never leave 00:28:57.190 --> 00:29:01.589 us and forsake me. That's His promise. Right? 00:29:01.769 --> 00:29:05.799 From the Old Testament, still the same. Yeah, 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.339 for sure. So those that kind of teaching. Yeah. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:14.059 Oh, that's great. Bring to my people. Yeah. Yeah. 00:29:14.059 --> 00:29:17.960 And how do you incorporate like faith or spirituality 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:24.180 into those teachings? We just basically outright 00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:28.059 call it like biblical counseling, biblical presentations. 00:29:28.460 --> 00:29:34.000 But I do use other like approaches. theories, 00:29:34.579 --> 00:29:38.500 other ways of counseling, because anytime there's 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:41.940 pain or trauma that happens to us, I believe 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:45.579 that we're affected holistically. The way our 00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:48.299 thinking process gets affected, our emotional 00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:51.259 capacity is affected, our spirit and our body. 00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:54.799 Our pain, our body carries our pain, trauma. 00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.880 We carry our trauma in our... bodies, so healing 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.119 needs to be holistic as well, to address the 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:06.859 four areas. So in those places I use different 00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:11.940 models or theories, however I see that fits to 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:16.039 the needs of my people. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's 00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:21.380 great. So why do you think that it's important 00:30:21.380 --> 00:30:24.579 for Canadian Christians specifically to sort 00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:27.259 of better understand indigenous people in Canada 00:30:27.259 --> 00:30:32.400 and indigenous history? For better relationships. 00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:37.579 We have to learn to get along. And to recognize 00:30:37.579 --> 00:30:39.880 there's two people groups in this country that 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:44.859 we call Canada. The country that we call Canada. 00:30:45.019 --> 00:30:49.150 Yes. Canada on Turtle Island. Yes. What do you 00:30:49.150 --> 00:30:53.549 mean by two people groups? Non -Indigenous and 00:30:53.549 --> 00:30:55.990 Indigenous. Okay, I see. I was like, because 00:30:55.990 --> 00:30:58.470 Canada has so many people groups, but I see what 00:30:58.470 --> 00:31:01.450 you're saying. Non -Indigenous and Indigenous. 00:31:02.670 --> 00:31:05.490 We need to get along. There's so much conflict 00:31:05.490 --> 00:31:14.130 right now between the two. And get to know each 00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:16.869 other. Because when we get to know each other, 00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:20.369 there's empathy and that changes the way we see 00:31:20.369 --> 00:31:23.309 each other. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I think 00:31:23.309 --> 00:31:27.609 for me a big something that I'm just very passionate 00:31:27.609 --> 00:31:32.789 about is like if we're calling ourselves Christians 00:31:32.789 --> 00:31:38.269 and if we're being truly what God and Jesus called 00:31:38.269 --> 00:31:41.289 us to be was to love our neighbor, you know, 00:31:41.309 --> 00:31:44.349 to be compassionate, to be merciful. Yeah. to 00:31:44.349 --> 00:31:46.230 speak up for the oppressed, to seek justice, 00:31:46.410 --> 00:31:49.569 all that stuff, then this is part of that calling, 00:31:49.789 --> 00:31:54.430 right? To recognize what has happened recently 00:31:54.430 --> 00:31:59.089 in our recent history as Canadians and say, okay, 00:31:59.470 --> 00:32:02.049 maybe I didn't personally play a part in this, 00:32:02.190 --> 00:32:06.980 but if I'm calling myself Christian, If I'm calling 00:32:06.980 --> 00:32:09.420 myself a Christian, I need to understand the 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:12.960 weight that that carries for Indigenous people 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.319 and the harm that has been caused by a group 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.119 that I'm a part of, even if I didn't do it personally. 00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:23.400 And I know that that's a really big journey for 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.339 people to go on. And I think there can be a lot 00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:29.339 of shame and guilt when you start that journey. 00:32:29.849 --> 00:32:32.690 And I mean, my hope is even as I have conversations 00:32:32.690 --> 00:32:35.529 with friends or people or you, like the church, 00:32:35.710 --> 00:32:39.809 my hope is that people don't feel guilt and shame. 00:32:39.910 --> 00:32:42.190 I think we should feel deep sadness and deep 00:32:42.190 --> 00:32:45.609 grief about what's happened. But to be reminded 00:32:45.609 --> 00:32:48.809 that, yes, this is a high calling. As Canadians 00:32:48.809 --> 00:32:51.910 and Christians, we should be pursuing reconciliation 00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:55.450 and that there's hope. There's a lot of hope 00:32:55.450 --> 00:33:00.700 in the God we believe in. you know, the message 00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:04.319 of the gospel is one of reconciliation and hope 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:08.380 and healing and death to life. So God is big 00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:11.940 enough to heal this broken relationship. Are 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:14.980 you willing to go on it and to also bring healing 00:33:14.980 --> 00:33:18.279 to a people group that is hurting and people 00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:20.299 are still hurting from it? You know, they don't 00:33:20.299 --> 00:33:22.759 trust the church. They don't trust the name, 00:33:22.940 --> 00:33:28.240 the title Christian. So yeah, I just want Canadian 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.980 Christians to know that there is hope, but to 00:33:32.980 --> 00:33:36.440 start that journey, whether it's by reading one 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.140 story about a residential school survivor and 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:43.740 understanding the impact that had on that child 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:46.880 who's now an elder in our community, right? Start 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.339 that journey of empathy and understanding. Yeah, 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:54.579 for sure. Can I just make an additional comment? 00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.240 Another thing that's happened to my people group 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:06.339 is that, so healing from trauma, you need a context. 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.320 You need a context where that's very important 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.360 to heal in a good way from a traumatic experience. 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.880 But we as indigenous people today, many times 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:21.900 we don't have the family context because of so 00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:27.800 many things like We have the intergenerational 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.639 trauma from residential schools. And one of the 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.940 main things that we lost from that experience 00:34:33.940 --> 00:34:39.639 is good parenting skills. Right. Learning, like 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:47.199 having good families. So to heal from trauma, 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.420 you need a good family setting, good support, 00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:56.090 good cultural context, you know, traditions that 00:34:56.090 --> 00:34:59.690 bring support to as you journey in your pain. 00:35:00.289 --> 00:35:04.969 Traditions and customs, whatever they are, we 00:35:04.969 --> 00:35:07.710 don't even have that. We don't have that. So 00:35:07.710 --> 00:35:10.489 that's another challenge we have as we're trying 00:35:10.489 --> 00:35:17.070 to heal from years of traumatic experiences. 00:35:18.829 --> 00:35:22.329 But I think what I wanted to say is that This 00:35:22.329 --> 00:35:25.230 is one of the ways that the church could bring 00:35:25.230 --> 00:35:31.190 support to us, by being that community for us. 00:35:32.389 --> 00:35:35.949 A church community, whether having, do you call 00:35:35.949 --> 00:35:39.010 them life groups? Yeah, the small groups that 00:35:39.010 --> 00:35:46.530 we have. Those kinds of contexts, like places 00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:50.590 of support, because we don't have those. And 00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:53.449 I always encourage that in our workshops. When 00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:56.750 we're invited by churches, I often encourage 00:35:56.750 --> 00:36:00.030 them, maybe it's you as a church that needs to 00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:04.460 start that grief support group. addictions support 00:36:04.460 --> 00:36:08.199 groups, because we need that. Yeah, just some 00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.179 of those really practical resources, right? Practical 00:36:11.179 --> 00:36:14.239 things we can do. Yeah, and the ways that we 00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:18.380 just like do all of life together, right? Like 00:36:18.380 --> 00:36:21.239 in the life groups, we get to study the Bible, 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:24.219 but we also share meals together and we help 00:36:24.219 --> 00:36:26.719 each other through the hard times and we celebrate 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.940 together. And yeah, just doing all of those things. 00:36:30.730 --> 00:36:34.190 Providing it a kind of family. Yeah. Yeah, that's 00:36:34.190 --> 00:36:38.750 super important for sure So if folks are listening 00:36:38.750 --> 00:36:41.170 and they're sort of intrigued and saying okay 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:44.590 now what what I want to learn more What what 00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:48.610 are some things that you might recommend? Like 00:36:48.610 --> 00:36:51.670 really practically one of the books I always 00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:55.280 recommend is 21 things you May Not Know About 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.739 the Indian Act. And it's by author Bob Joseph. 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.780 He has a follow -up book called Indigenous Relations. 00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:07.760 And I actually can't find my other copy. I was 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.519 trying to find it this morning. This is the sequel, 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:11.960 but the first one is 21 Things You May Not Know 00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:18.599 About the Indian Act. And it's very reader -friendly. 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.820 If you want to get the big picture of this journey 00:37:25.820 --> 00:37:28.219 that Indigenous people have been on in our country 00:37:28.219 --> 00:37:31.980 and why they are where they are today, I really 00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:34.420 recommend that because the Indian Act impacted 00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:38.219 so much about our people and how they function. 00:37:39.219 --> 00:37:41.539 And of course, it goes back to colonization. 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:44.960 So there's lots of good books. First Nations 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:52.760 101, I have there. Unsettling Truths. Unsettling 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.659 truth is another good one more about the document 00:37:55.659 --> 00:37:58.920 doctrine of discovery And then mom you wanted 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:03.460 to speak to a little more like personal stories 00:38:03.460 --> 00:38:10.119 Yeah, I was I think for me what I would like 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:14.139 to say to the people is that Be interested in 00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:19.099 us and our stories There's so many books out 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:22.860 there right now and different bookstores people 00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:27.239 writing their biographies and actually as part 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:30.920 of my healing over the last like 40 years you 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.820 know that's how I that those were one that that 00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:37.099 was one of the things I did as part of my healing 00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:40.019 is read these stories about other indigenous 00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:44.519 people how they began to find healing it helped 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:49.909 me understand Like reading biographies will help 00:38:49.909 --> 00:38:52.889 you understand what it's like inside that indigenous 00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:59.730 person to go through that. And hopefully it'll 00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:06.650 bring more empathy, understanding. So biographies 00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:09.730 of writers, like you can go to I think any... 00:39:09.929 --> 00:39:14.610 in the Go store. Google? Type in, you'll get 00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:18.010 a big list. There's sections, so start small. 00:39:19.010 --> 00:39:22.949 And also, just being open and interested. I often 00:39:22.949 --> 00:39:26.949 say about Rachelle and her family, her boys, 00:39:28.409 --> 00:39:33.070 on Is It Every Child Matters? She has her sons 00:39:33.070 --> 00:39:36.550 dressed in these t -shirts, and off they go to 00:39:36.550 --> 00:39:43.130 school. And I often say, In that small way, and 00:39:43.130 --> 00:39:45.530 as part of who you are, how you live out your 00:39:45.530 --> 00:39:49.489 life, you're sending a message that this is part 00:39:49.489 --> 00:39:55.150 of our history in Canada. And it's real. It's 00:39:55.150 --> 00:40:02.849 a reality. And it will affect us. And part of 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:07.070 what we learned in history classes and our studies 00:40:07.070 --> 00:40:12.900 is that It's the people that have the victory 00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:16.219 over the land or over country that get to tell 00:40:16.219 --> 00:40:20.900 their story. But the one that has been defeated, 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.699 they don't get a chance to tell their story. 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.960 And I see ourselves as a nation that it's that 00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.699 people group that never got to tell the story, 00:40:31.219 --> 00:40:34.980 their story, their side of the story. And we 00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:38.579 are just finally starting to do that. And so 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:44.539 I would say believe our stories. Believe our 00:40:44.539 --> 00:40:50.079 stories that it did happen. I mean, that's what 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.320 I ask. Yeah, no, that's really good because you 00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:55.619 said earlier that your husband said you have 00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:58.639 every... sort of non -indigenous person in Canada 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:00.719 had an indigenous friend how that would sort 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.380 of change things and I think that that's that's 00:41:03.380 --> 00:41:05.869 a really good point a really good place to start, 00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:08.329 but for folks who feel really intimidated by 00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:11.329 that, I think, yeah, some of these biographies 00:41:11.329 --> 00:41:14.530 are an equally good place to start. And I think 00:41:14.530 --> 00:41:17.690 because I was saying to you earlier, like we 00:41:17.690 --> 00:41:20.269 don't, it's like be a friend, but where, who, 00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:22.969 to who? Where are the Indigenous people? When 00:41:22.969 --> 00:41:24.769 you live in a place like, I found this when I 00:41:24.769 --> 00:41:27.510 moved down here to Toronto, I was like, I don't, 00:41:27.650 --> 00:41:30.150 we're so diverse, which is beautiful. And I'm 00:41:30.150 --> 00:41:32.869 like, I don't know who, I don't see any Indigenous 00:41:32.869 --> 00:41:35.469 people. Unless maybe you go downtown Toronto, 00:41:35.869 --> 00:41:38.789 like there are, um, you know, you might be able 00:41:38.789 --> 00:41:42.150 to tell, but, um, you know, they're on the reserves 00:41:42.150 --> 00:41:45.530 typically. And if they're not, they're very integrated 00:41:45.530 --> 00:41:49.110 into, um, they just blend in a little bit. Sure. 00:41:49.230 --> 00:41:52.969 And how do we even cross that bridge to friendship? 00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:54.670 Like you can't just walk on the street and be 00:41:54.670 --> 00:41:57.730 like, Hey, let's be friends now. Like there's 00:41:57.730 --> 00:42:01.699 just not a high, a large population of Indigenous 00:42:01.699 --> 00:42:05.119 people in our communities. And so I was just 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.780 saying to you before that, like reading, picking 00:42:07.780 --> 00:42:10.340 up a biography, saying, OK, maybe I can't attain 00:42:10.340 --> 00:42:13.079 that in -person connection right now, but I'm 00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:15.840 going to read a story about someone and I'm going 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.739 to believe it. And I really believe it will impact 00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:25.239 you in a big way. Yeah. Thank you so much, ladies. 00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:30.579 This has been a really good conversation. I so 00:42:30.579 --> 00:42:33.400 appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.659 because I know sharing parts of yourself like 00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:40.179 this can be a really hard step, but I think also 00:42:40.179 --> 00:42:42.480 something that is so important for us to hear 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.159 and to get to learn from and get your perspective. 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.780 So thank you for taking the time to do this. 00:42:48.019 --> 00:42:49.800 Thank you, Kyla. Thank you so much for having 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:52.360 us. Yes, thank you so much. You're very welcome. 00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:55.659 And for those who are listening, thank you for 00:42:55.659 --> 00:42:58.590 sticking with us. Taking this time to sort of 00:42:58.590 --> 00:43:02.090 reflect. I hope that in whatever you have heard 00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:05.349 that you are able to take a piece of this and 00:43:05.349 --> 00:43:08.110 and bring some healing forward whether you need 00:43:08.110 --> 00:43:12.449 that healing for yourself or healing in our relationships 00:43:12.449 --> 00:43:15.909 with indigenous folks in this country And we'll 00:43:15.909 --> 00:43:16.909 see you again next week