Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I'm so
glad that you are joining us this week. Today
we are continuing to talk a little bit about
the intersections between faith and work. Where
do we... How does our faith influence the work
that we do, and how does the work that we do
influence our faith? And this week, I am excited
to sit down with Andrew, who is a pilot. So thank
you for joining me, Andrew. Happy to be here.
Thanks for having me. Yeah. Do you want to just
take a moment to introduce yourself a little
bit? Sure. Yeah. My name is Andrew, as you mentioned.
We come to Trinity with Rochelle, my wife, and
two children, Emerson and Eddie. We've been here
about three years and I work as a pilot so I'm
happy to be here to share any insight I can about
Faith in the pilot world and what my job looks
like. So yeah, thank you Yeah, so what prompted
you to want to be a pilot? I don't know if there's
maybe one thing but Pilot airplanes that's kind
of one of the main fixations as kids They have
the dinosaurs or the airplanes or whatever it
is for them. So mine was airplanes It also didn't
hurt that my father is a pilot or was a pilot.
He's retired now, but as a child, you know, you're
influenced by seeing dad come home in the uniform
and going on trips and things like that. And
at the time, pre -9 -11, your family could go
into the flight deck with you. So I remember
being, I don't know, I must have been maybe 14
or so. just being able to sit up in the flight
deck sitting behind my dad and the other pilot
and just doing this approach into like Los Angeles
at night and seeing all the lights and the cockpits
and everything. It was just mesmerizing and it
was something that not many people get to see
if you're not in the industry, but it was impactful
and I was like, I have to do this. It's just
too cool not to try and do this. So I started
pursuing that. Oh, that's really fun. Yeah. So
can you just explain a little bit about what
does your job entail? What does it look like
on a weekly basis or monthly basis? Right. So
I mean, the obvious answer is I fly airplanes
around. Yes. Yeah. The airplane I'm on is called
the 737. So it does mostly regional type flying.
Like I fly a lot in Canada and the US. I go down
to Mexico from time to time. The Caribbean if
I'm lucky, okay, a nice Caribbean layover. Yeah
At my company, there's different bases actually.
So if you're based in Montreal or Vancouver,
you could do some overseas flying the plane able
to go a bit longer My job though on a week to
week it could look anything from having most
of the week off because that's how the schedule
Sure laid out or I could be working a few days
of the week. I could be working four days in
a row no two weeks look the same. So it's a bit
variable. It's not a typical nine to five job.
Sometimes I'm doing a red eyes. So you're, you're
flying overnight and getting home in the morning
and then sending the kids off to school. So it's,
it's, yeah, you kind of get the idea of, of what
the job is. It's not regular, I would say. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. What's your favorite part of
your job or a favorite memory from work? It's
hard to pick one memory. I'll start with the
part of the job. I mean, so we talked about some
of the scheduling anomalies or abnormalities
that come with the job. But there's also some
pros that come along with that as well, because
there might be a random Tuesday or Wednesday
where I'm just home during the week. So if Rochelle
is home, we can go for coffee. We can hang out.
It's healthy. aspect to be able to dig into to
spend time with your spouse or even getting groceries,
having meetings at church, things like that.
Not many people can kind of do that week unless
you work nights or something. The travel, being
able to travel and see different places, see
the world. It's just opening your... Your horizons
to see different countries and cultures and foods
and things like that. It's Yeah, that's definitely
One of the perks of the job favorite memory again
hard to pick one, but I've been able to take
people with me on layovers. So when I go to a
country or a city Often we just will stay there
for sometimes a day, sometimes two or more. OK.
So I've been able to take Rochelle with me to
Budapest. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. And I'd never
been there. It's a very, very interesting city.
Great food. And then she brought her dad and
her dad's friend along. So it was all four of
us. OK. We rented a car and drove around. We
drove to Slovakia to watch a hockey game of the
friend's son. And yeah, it was just neat to be
able to bring. loved ones along and they can
kind of see a little bit of what you do when
you're there, which to them looks like fun. They
don't see all the hard work to get there. They
see when you get there and you get to kind of
eat good food and sleep in a nice hotel. So yeah,
just them being able to take part in that is
a memory. And there's others as well. You know,
it's the same kind of idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sort of similar to like what you were saying.
You know, your dad would like show you sort of
what he was doing. Obviously, you can't bring
your family up to the cockpit, you know, as you're
doing the approach anymore, probably. But but
but still that same like getting to sort of experience
it together. Yes. Yeah. That was not only did
I get to see the layers, but I got the kind of
behind the scenes look. And again, that was what
hooked me. Yeah, for sure. That's so cool. Are
there any ways that you think your faith impacts
the way that you do your job? I mean, there definitely
is. Even just thinking about an approach to work
and how you do things. Just preparing for this,
I was looking at like Colossians three twenty
three, I believe it is, and it's just talking
about. you know, whatever you do, do it with
excellence as to the Lord. Right. That's a paraphrase.
But it's this idea that. And I'm fortunate because
I like being a pilot, so the work sometimes comes
naturally, not always, but sometimes to to kind
of put the time in, put the study in, get in
the books, make sure you're you're doing everything
that you can to be the best that you can be at
it. And that. That rubs off on people in the
workplace. They could see that you're taking
it seriously and it's important to do that right
because safety Oriented industry, but just that
approach to it I Find is important and when I
do that, I'm not doing it for others sure I am
but secondarily maybe it's it's something that
I'm doing for the Lord Other ways it's more just
Any other workplace right you're working with
people you want to Just exemplify the fruits
of the spirit you want to treat people with kindness
and love you want to be merciful and gracious
Pilots are typically type a personalities sometimes
we come across as brash or very forward so in
dealing with people I try and Yeah, the language
you use sometimes in the in the flight deck it
could be it can turn a little bit. I don't want
to say vulgar. I'll say maybe secular, like loose
lips and things like that. So just kind of, you
know, putting forward your values when it comes
to speech and things like that. The other thing
that's interesting, too, is I was thinking about
this in a workplace and trying to, let's say,
even share your faith with someone or directly.
It is challenging in my role because typically
we'll show up at the flight planning room or
the aircraft, and you're meeting somebody often
for the first time. OK. Maybe if you've been
on the airplane for a while, you've met them
before. But it's often you're just getting to
know this person, and you have to kind of come
together as a team to complete this complex task.
So first of all, you have to find time to kind
of be maybe a bit more, let's say, the direct
approach. But you don't have a relationship with
this person. Right. Yeah, yeah. So you're kind
of doing small talk. So it is a bit more challenging,
you know, if you're talking about what you've
been up to or how your week's been, you can talk
about the things that are important to you, like
church or things like that. Sometimes that sparks
more interest, other times they just kind of
brush it by. But there have been some times too
where I've, and maybe even for the first time
when you meet somebody over the course of my
career, where you just get into the faith talk
and you start hashing it out. Most times that's
happened, it elicits like, surprise from the
other person. They're kind of surprised that
you're a Christian. I don't know if it's, if
you looked in the stats of the industry, if it
doesn't reflect maybe society as a whole, but
yeah, often they're taken aback that you're like,
oh, you go to church or you're spiritual or you
believe in God. Right. Sometimes it doesn't go
anywhere, but like there has been times where
it's almost become a bit of a back and forth
because the person is maybe not a Christian or
has different beliefs than you. Right. So yeah,
I forgot the question now. Maybe I'm right. No,
no, no, no, that's really interesting. Yeah.
To think about like, I guess one of the things
that I didn't think about is like other people
like me or others who work in a sort of, I don't
know, regular stable sort of job, like, like
in a building. I work with the same people all
the time. But yeah, if you have a new co -pilot
or a new flight crew every time you walk onto
an airplane, that gives you a lot of opportunity
to meet people. Yeah, a lot of opportunity, but
not a lot of groundwork's been laid yet. So you're
starting new every time almost. So sometimes
it takes a bit of a different approach if you're
interested in sharing your faith. Sure. Yeah.
Are there ways that your work causes challenges
in your life and maybe in your faith life or
just in general? I mean, this would be maybe
the con of the schedule that we were talking
about earlier. I mentioned some of the pros,
but the cons would be just planning life out
because our schedules. So, yeah, our schedules
come out. a couple weeks before the next month
starts. So if I want to plan further out, it's
a bit difficult. Being on the road, I'm on the
road for a few days. You know, Rochelle is a
single parent essentially, so that puts a strain
on her. For sure. Let's say being on the road,
being away from your family, you just have to
be a bit more, I guess, aware of what maybe some
of your temptations are, things like that. You
know, if you struggle with alcohol, maybe you
have an easy, no one's checking on you. You can
just go and drink more than you normally would.
If it's things like sexual temptations, you gotta
make sure that you're not putting yourselves
in situations where you don't wanna be in. You
might have to put limits on your phone access
or things like that. You might have to excuse
yourself from, a dinner earlier than you wanted
to if things aren't going where you want. Right.
Yeah, those would be the main ones. Like, there's
obviously smaller things like fatigue, right?
Sure. If you have red -eye, you get home, you're
tired, you got to sleep, things like that. Stress.
You know, every job has these things, but there
are some of the unique ones maybe to aviation
where you're, I would say, mostly related to
kind of being on your own in hotel rooms without
accountability, things like that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah and so interesting to to then think about
you know what you were just saying about having
new co -workers all of the time right? There
is not even there's not even in in your workplace
there's not even that you don't get to build
that same relationship with someone where you
can yeah hold each other accountable or or yeah.
Yeah and and then oftentimes your colleagues
that you're working with have different values
anyways right they sure yeah the thing that you're
you know, avoiding they maybe run to at times
as a generality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That can that
can make it challenging for sure. So then how
how do you think your faith like helps you work
through some of those challenges? I think it's.
Each person is going to have different challenges,
so the challenges, the challenges that I face
aren't going to be maybe with the next. Christian
pilot faces. But I think the word they used is
important is work at. So it's a process. It's
something that you sometimes maybe fail at earlier
on so that you can grow from later. It's trying
to be self -aware in understanding the... you
know, some of the temptations you face so that
you can, you know, work at overcoming them and
what do I need to do to kind of be, you know,
spiritually safe and on the road and things like
that. Mm hmm. Yeah, I think those are maybe some
of the ways to to help combat it. Yeah. Yeah,
no, for sure. Yeah. And are there ways we've
talked about how your faith shapes your work?
But are there ways that you think your work has
influenced your faith? Yeah, things that you've
learned or done as a pilot that have changed
your understanding of God? I mean, for sure.
Some of it ties into the aspect of the job itself
and traveling around and seeing different places.
That would be the most obvious one, because as
you're going around the world, you're seeing
different cities, different cultures, different
countries, different vistas and landscapes and
things like that. So part of it is almost like
an awe that you come to appreciate. You see how
much bigger God is when you see more of the world.
And not everyone has that advantage. But when
you do have it, it's important, I think, recognize
it. And things like flying across the country
at night and seeing super bright stars and things
like the Northern Lights. You're flying across
Canada in the middle of the night and you just
see a blanket of colors and see the Northern
Lights. It makes you take a step back and think
how amazing God is. I like snorkeling. There's
been some places I've gone where I'm able to
be at work snorkeling. I think I'm getting paid
for this. Like you go under the water and you
see a whole new world and colors and fish and
corals and things like that. I think it's so
cool that this was here and it's been here for
a long time and God had specific intentions for
that. Being in Europe and seeing different cultures
and the way people do things and how God's designed
people to be so diverse in that respect. It's
just, yeah, a lot of that has... sunk into me.
And there's been moments where like it's a hard
job. There's risk involved in it. There's been
a few times where, you know, maybe earlier in
my career where you get into some situations
you don't want to be in and you kind of say a
quick prayer. And to this point, God's been faithful
to maybe rescue me from things that I either
got myself into or I sometimes it's just, you
just find yourself in a difficult situation and
He's been able to, to, you know, see me through
those things. So. Yeah, I've been able to just
see those things throughout my career. Hopefully,
as it goes on, I can continue to not just take
it for granted, but to see how God is working
in the different ways. There's a group of Christian
Pilots that meet occasionally. And actually,
we're meeting tomorrow, so I'm looking forward
to it because it's been a while, maybe even since
before COVID. But seeing other believers in the
industry is a huge encouragement for me. Because
for one reason or another, you just you don't
run into Christian pilots all that often. Sure.
Part of it is you're not, you know, you work
with one one week and then you might be off for
another week. You're not like the turnover is
maybe a little bit small. So when you do, it's
it's yeah, it's meaningful. And it's kind of
you get a bit of that. sense of, you know, I'm
not alone. You don't have to cry out like Elijah,
like, I'm the last one here. Like, no one's left
but me. So it's, yeah, I love having those moments
where you are able to kind of find a brother
and sister in Christ and just share how their
experience has been. So it's good. There's a
guy that organizes a breakfast, so I'm happy
to kind of do that. And it's not even just my
company, other companies across Canada that...
that pilots show up for, so that's important
as well. Mm -hmm, yeah, I know, that's awesome.
Yeah, really good that you can find that sense
of community, right? And, yeah, encourage one
another. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's been big
for me. And there's been some discouragements
with that, too. Sure. You see guys that you connect
with, you have the deep talks with, and then
maybe you see them a few laters and they've kind
of... it's not as important to them anymore.
Flash in the pan maybe. But yeah, there's definitely
a few maybe peers I would call them in my career
where I don't see them that often. But when I
do, it's always like, hey, how are you doing?
Are you still following in the faith? And you
get that glint that they are and you talk about
it. And you're like, OK, that's good to know
that we're in this together. there's more than
just me. Because again, when you're working one
-on -one all the time, it can sometimes feel
like that as opposed to a big workplace where
you get to know who people are and what they
believe and meld that way. Yeah, for sure. You
don't get to find your people in the same sort
of way. You're almost working with strangers
each time. Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting.
Like, yeah, again, not something I would have
sort of thought of. But yeah, really, really
interesting to sort of think about. We even do
training throughout the year, because they recognize
this idea that two completely different people
have to come together and execute this complex
task. So how do we do that? Because there's different
ways to do that, like checklists and SOPs, standard
operating procedures and things like that. But
even when it comes to building the emotional
groundwork to be able to dig into deeper areas.
Yeah, it's it's a challenge of the role of the
job. Mm hmm. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean,
I think the other thing that I was thinking about
as you were talking was, you know, when your
schedule is such that like, yeah, we were talking
before you said you try to take Sundays off,
but you can't always do that. Right. And so that
I think that makes it hard sometimes to like
build habits. Yeah, for sure. And whether that's
daily habits of faith or those weekly going to
church and things like that. I can see why being
a pilot would take a toll on your faith in that
way. Yeah, and sometimes you're listening to
podcasts or books and they're trying to instill
habits in you and they're like, oh, every morning
I wake up at seven and I do this thing. I'm like,
oh, that's nice for you, but I can't always do
that, right? So the challenge is, well, how do
I And this has been an ongoing thing because
I do try and build some of these habits even
when I'm on the road, but it's like, when you're
out of your space, you're like, okay, well now
I'm gonna do my devotions in my Bible and praying
in this hotel room. But sometimes it's hard,
it's like, this isn't my space, it's not what
I'm expecting. Like the time isn't what I was
expecting. Now I'm at like one in the afternoon
because I was having to sleep after the flight.
So yeah, it is more challenging to try and build
those habits. And even like, There's stuff that
go on throughout the week here, like the beer
and banter. I don't know if JP is listening,
but he's always like, oh, you haven't been a
beer and banter in so long. Like, are you trying
to avoid me? I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm just
like, I have to work some days during the week.
I'm going to be off, you know, Sundays and Saturdays.
That means I'm usually busy during the week,
but I'm not trying to avoid you, JP. Yeah, yeah,
no, for sure. So. You talked about, you know,
how sometimes it's hard to find other Christians
in the airline industry. So our podcast doesn't
have a huge reach, but if there are other folks
listening who are Christians in the airline industry,
like what would you want to sort of say to them?
Well, I would say you're not alone, first of
all, because there's many of us, even stories
of my dad working with Christian guys and the
relationships that they had. And then also, yeah,
so. hang tight because you will come across them
and that'll be a time of encouragement for you
and then also just protect yourself when you're
on the road make sure you know what your what
your struggles are and put things in place to
Yeah, just guard your heart so that you don't
fall into those things, because it can be easy
without the accountability and being on the road
like that. So, I mean, there's more that could
be said, but I'll leave people with two things.
Yeah, that's really solid. Yeah. Well, thank
you so much, Andrew. This has been a really interesting
conversation and I think really helpful for us
to think about, yeah, what does our faith look
like in jobs that have a lot of ups and downs,
a lot of uncertainty maybe, but. But yeah, you're
doing it. Well, I think yeah, and I've been really
blessed. God's blessed me in my in my career
I mentioned those few times where You pray to
him and he rescues you from different scenarios.
And yeah, I'm just very thankful and want to
praise God for that. And if I ever do change
careers, which I'm not planning on, then you
can have me back. Okay. We'll talk again. Sounds
good. Yeah. Well, thank you for listening to
this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I hope
that you have also found some encouragement and
challenge in this conversation to carry forward
into your own work, life, whatever that looks
like for you. and we'll see you again next week.