Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and this week
we are sitting down and talking with a couple
of folks in our congregation about their work
because we know that Christians don't just exist
inside of the church building here. They also
exist out there in the workplace doing all kinds
of different things. Yeah and so we're talking
with two accountants this week. about their job.
So thank you for joining me folks. You're welcome.
Good to be here. Yeah. So maybe we'll just get
you to start by introducing yourselves. Do you
want to go first here? Sure. I'm JP Strassler
and I've been an accountant for 30 years. Okay.
And I've been at Trinity for just about two and
a half years. Okay. And really excited to be
here this morning. Okay, great. Yeah, so my name
is Aaron, Aaron Marr. I've been an accountant
for almost 30 years as well. Okay. And Trinity
for a couple of years now. Okay. So, yeah. Oh,
great. Yeah. So what prompted you to want to
work in accounting? Maybe we'll start over here
again with you, JP. Why be an accountant? For
me, I guess, a couple of reasons. First of all,
coming out of university, I wasn't sure exactly
what I wanted to do career -wise. I knew it would
be business -related. And since business really
boils down to numbers, I thought an accounting
designation would serve me well. Sure. Also,
most of my friends were doing it. So peer pressure.
Well, it was just, it was sort of neat how my
graduating class at university, most of us all
ended up at the same CA firm. Okay, cool. So
one day we're, you know, university students
and then a couple months later we're kind of
together, but in suits and in a professional
environment, which was funny. And I guess probably
also my mom. She always said, I'd be a good accountant
because I'm an analytical thinker. And she would
quite often say, she'd comment how I like to
take things apart. And it's funny how at that
point in time, because I'm a forensic accountant,
that little did she know that eventually I would
become a forensic accountant, which essentially
involves taking apart numbers and looking behind
them and figuring things out. That's cool. What
about for you, Aaron? Yeah, and I mean, who really,
who wouldn't want to be an accountant? Sure.
I mean, that sounds really interesting, actually.
I think we're selling it well here, right? Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I think enrollment in accounting
is declining, actually, so we have to do our
part here. Yes. Yeah, a lot of it comes, a few
things. I mean, numbers, you mentioned, I've
always loved numbers. I would say it's a bit
of a misconception that Accounting and math are
kind of hand -in -hand, but I loved math. And
that's what I went to university for. I did a
math degree at Waterloo. But also I chose to
do accounting sort of as a minor. That's what
led to my co -op work terms. One thing leads
to another. Get a good job. And, you know, here
I am. But also, again, I had a parental influence
as well. My father's an accountant. So that,
you know, I had heard about it and you know all
that kind of thing as well so yeah that's kind
of what led me into the field and you know I
enjoy it lots of different you know experience
lots of different businesses and you know like
JP says it all a lot of it every business comes
down to to numbers at the bottom right so it's
it's a Interesting field is for sure. Yeah. Yeah
for sure. So maybe before we go any further We've
sort of just said accounting and talked and and
kind of have a general assumption that people
know what that means But maybe they don't know
what that means So like what does a typical like
work day or work week look like for you? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, well, obviously you're gonna get
two very different answers here. Yeah you know
and that's You know, one of the interesting things
is, yeah, you can go lots of different directions.
So for me, I work for, I'm going to say a big
grocery retailer. The name might slip out and
I just don't want people coming to me and complaining
about the quality of their produce if I name
the company. Are the prices? Exactly. Well, we
won't go there yet, right? But we might go there.
So yes. you know, again, I'm responsible for,
you know, making sure we report accurate financial
numbers. And it's a very big company, billions
of dollars in revenues and tens of thousands
of products, all that kind of thing. So it's,
you know, we're making sure we report accurate
numbers all the time. So that our business, you
know, we can make good decisions. So it's either
for me, it's reporting on historical numbers
and then making projections for the future. And
that's what we do. And that's what you know,
as an accountant. That's a traditional accounting
role. JP will probably talk about something very
different. I think we both started in the public
accounting world, which is, you know, you come
out of school, you go into a CA firm, and you're
doing auditing, tax, all the traditional stuff.
And then you can go in different directions.
And then, you know, it leads to other things,
you know, I got involved in some charitable organizations.
And again, Even charities need accountants, right?
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Everybody needs accounts.
And, you know, we have two great ones here or
several great ones here at Trinity. And yeah,
every organization needs needs to know what their
what their financial health is and all that kind
of stuff. Yeah, for sure. Cool. Yeah. So what
about for you, JP? What does work look like?
What does work look like? Well, every day is
different. Sure. So by way of background, yeah,
I'm a forensic accountant. So what that is, I
would describe as sort of a hybrid between a
financial accountant, an auditor, and an investigator.
Okay. So the types of engagements I get brought
into involve Typically, financial disputes, partner
disputes, matrimonial disputes, hidden income,
hidden assets, financial fraud, usually in a
workplace investigation situation, employee dishonesty.
and also just a general like loss quantification.
Okay. Commercial insurance claims a business
has a fire, a flood, a theft. They're closed
for weeks or months and their insurance policy
covers them for lost income. So that has to be
quantified, which involves sort of crystal ball
gazing. You know, what would the business have
earned had the incident not happened. Right.
So projections and things like that. Okay. And
so that's So that's what I do. I knew very early
on when I was, as Erin mentioned, starting off
in a public accounting firm, the traditional
areas there, audits and doing tax returns. I
knew very early on. That's not where you wanted
to be? That's not what I wanted to do. And I
think my work level and my performance reviews
clearly reflected that. But I was fortunate that
at the time, forensic accounting was just becoming
established as a specialty area. And the firm
Alzat actually had the first forensic accounting.
group and because and my work group was situated
in the office right next to them I was always
talking to them and putting my hand up if they
needed extra extra help and so I got some exposure
to it and as soon as I that happened I realized
the light went on this is what I wanted yeah
okay and never looked back okay cool yeah um
so when I asked each of you to sort of do this,
especially you, JP, you said, would anybody want
to listen to a podcast about accounting? But
usually, you know, as soon as you mentioned.
the word accountant or counting, you know, I
start glazing over real quick. So I was like,
are you sure? Do we have any numbers on the screen
that show our views dropping off here? Didn't
I say that? Like you really want people to watch
the podcast. Yes, yes, yes. So and to get like
thumbs up. And you said, sure. No, this is going
to be it's going to be awesome. It is because
you're awesome people doing interesting things.
Oh, you're making us blush. So. Let's make it
exciting. What is your favorite part of your
job? Yeah, Aaron? Aaron's loaded right again.
Well, I don't know. Or favorite memory from your
job? Yeah, memories, I mean... You know, I don't
know if I'm gonna be able to give any good stories
on the you know, what I do is an accountant But
you know early in my career was at the accounting
firm a lot of young people it was it was, you
know High -intensity, but we had a lot of fun.
We had an accounting softball league. So Exciting
right But but now it's you know, what gives me
satisfaction is Making sense out of numbers,
right? It's you know, again a big company like
the one I work in it takes a and analytical,
and I see the value that brings in distilling
numbers quickly and making sense out of them
and communicating them to other people. And again,
one example, I'm on the board of international
teams, which is 10 projects around the world.
And I've sort of gotten involved in that. I can
look at that through a financial lens and hopefully
bring value to um you know to the organization
by so that kind of brings me satisfaction you
know not exciting you know i don't have any great
stories i bet you jp does but uh um you know
that's that's the kind of thing that i i i do
uh like about the about the job and the profession
yeah yeah for sure it gives you those practical
skills and that ability to do things in your
job but also in in other ways right and and like
we said you know every organization Has to have
that. So you can work in any kind of company
you want if you're an accountant. Every, you
know, you want to work for the Toronto Maple
Leaf, they have accountants, right? Right. You
want to work for Trinity Streetsville, they have
accountants. Numbers are numbers. Numbers are
numbers. And it's not about the numbers in the
end. It's about what, you know, it's a means
to an end. Sure. And, and, and, but it's a, it's
a, you know, integral part. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
What, what about for you? Any favourite parts
of your job or favourite memories? Yeah, absolutely.
I'm the kind of person that I get bored really
easily. So what I love about being a forensic
accountant is the variety of work and the challenge
of it. In terms of the variety, like every assignment
is different. Different industry, different businesses,
meeting tons of people from the C -suite down,
different issues. So just, yeah, which I really
enjoy. And then on the challenging side, yeah,
because each assignment's different, there's
no script to follow that you can just sort of
copy and paste and you have to figure out a game
plan each time. There's a ton of analysis, searching
for the proverbial needle in a haystack, the
smoking gun, the fraudulent transaction, which
is... which can involve a lot of digging and
interviewing people that quite often do not want
to be interviewed. Of course, yes. Being able
to develop a rapport with them to get them to
open up. Creativity, strategizing, how -to because
clients don't want to fund an endless fishing
expedition. we need you to figure this out and
let us, you know, confirm yes or no, is this
employee defrauding us? Right. And just in terms
of amount of judgment. Yeah. Because, you know,
ultimately I need, you know, the work product
is to prepare a report where I'm opining as to...
what my conclusions are, whether there is a fraud
or if it's a lost quantification, what the number
is. So all eyes are on me as to what that number
is. And I have to be prepared to go to court
and defend it in my position. That sounds like
a lot of pressure sometimes. I'd call it good
pressure. So for me, I just, I just love it.
Okay. Just, yeah, it's exciting. It's fun. It's
yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So you're both accountants,
but you're also both Christians, people of faith.
And so are there ways that you think your faith
impacts the way that you do your job? Yeah. Do
you think? Yeah, certainly. there's a lot of
overlap between the rules and the standards that
accountants and specifically forensic accounts
need to adhere to. So a lot of overlap between
that and called the attributes of a Christian.
Quality such as honesty, and integrity, and trustworthiness,
fairness. For me, I have to be very, very fair,
or else I'm not serving my clients well if I'm
being biased. So I have to be unbiased and objective.
and not judgmental of others, even if I'm sitting
across from someone who's been accused of stealing
a lot of money from their company. It's not my
role to judge them. My role is to seek the truth
and ultimately that justice prevails. And because
the work that I do is highly confidential, I
can't brag about it. I was hoping for some good
stories here, JP. All the stories. So I see a
lot of alignment between my work and my fave.
Yeah, for sure. What about for you? Yeah, I mean,
certainly off the top. you know, the professional
standards and ethics that JP speaks about, you
know, that applies to all of us who get a professional
designation and, you know, again, there's overlap.
I don't know that I would do it differently as
a Christian or not, but it definitely aligns
with, you know, all those values he spoke of.
But, you know, I think maybe more generally,
just as a you know, going into a corporate workplace,
right? It's about, you know, how I treat the
people I work with, you know, whatever levels
I'm interacting. It's, you know, it's being consistent,
I find, trying to be consistent across all the
areas of my life, right? I try to be the same
person I am at home, as at work, as at Trinity,
as, you know, when I take my kid to the hockey
game or whatever, right? I don't want to be a
different person in those different environments.
So, you know, in the workplace I want to be,
you know, obviously respectful and not engage
in negativity and office gossip and, you know,
display humility, which is, you know, that's
in a corporate company environment, right? That's
a quality that's maybe a little counter to what,
you know, is normal. You know, I want to show
gratitude for my job, right? I'm happy, you know,
there's a lot of complaining and negativity sometimes
about your work environment, your boss, this,
that, right? I'm sure, Kyla, you complain about
love all the time, I'm sure, right? Yes, of course,
yes. But, you know, so I want to be grateful
for my employment and yeah, all that kind of
stuff. I mean this is a you know another in a
big company like mine right we have people you
know making all different wages and things like
that you know I can't do much about it but I
do advocate for fair distribution of you know
wages and things like that if that's a bigger
even than my company is a societal kind of thing
but you know, where I can bring my voice up and
say, this is what I think or believe. It's not
going to maybe make a difference, but you never
know. You never know. You never have to see.
So, yeah, I mean, I think it's it's trying to
be consistent and be that same person. You know,
authentic, authentic, authenticity. Yeah. See,
Paul Henderson out the window. So I. a part of
a leader impact group. I don't know if you're
familiar with that. Either if you're familiar
with leader impact, Paul is a founder, I believe.
And that's business people having a small group,
like Trinity has small groups and we talk about,
we read business books, but we, you know, it's
based on your personal, professional and spiritual
life. How do you, and so, you know, I'm in a
group with some, you know, some of the guys are
retired and that, but they, you know, we talk
about That authenticity and consistency across
different areas of your life. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's so important and something
that We don't necessarily Think about when we
think about Like as as Christians like how does
how does our work like how does our work in our
faith sort of interact with one another right?
Well, I think can be tough when Obviously when
it conflicts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So as Miss Erin
was saying, I feel fortunate that my work is
totally aligned with my faith. So tomorrow morning
when I go to work, I can be the same person.
I don't have to be a different version of myself
or be different, you know what I mean? Which
is a blessing. Yeah, and something that I don't
think people would necessarily Think about not
nothing people say I don't think people think
about Business in any particular way, but right
they don't necessarily stop to think oh if I'm
going into this career Like it aligns well with
my faith right right because you know some careers
to be successful You know you need to act in
in a certain way and have certain you know goals
and values That can certainly be it conflict
with With Christian values. For sure, for sure,
yeah. What about challenges? Are there any ways
that your work creates challenges in your life?
And does it create challenges for your faith
specifically? I mean, work in general takes up
a huge chunk of our lives, right? So it's, you
know, sometimes it's maintaining that balance,
right? The classic work life. balance, right?
So, are you giving too much of your life to your
work and then not balancing it out with, you
know, the other parts? Yeah, how does it, my
profession challenge, or my work challenge, my
faith, I was really challenged, I was really
challenged by some of Rob's sermons on the the
S -words, right? Well, forget about gluttony
for a second, because that was, you know, but
I'm in greed. So greed was a tough, you know,
and I think as an accountant, I'm trained to,
you know, mitigate risk and prepare for contingencies
and to, you know, have the strong balance sheet,
right? And all that kind of stuff, right? And
I found, you know, myself thinking, okay, I'm
not speaking for all accountants, but if I do
that in my personal life, right? And, okay, I'm
an accountant. I can manage my financial, you
know, well -being. I don't need anyone else to
take care of me. I can mitigate risk. Then I'm
not trusting God for anything, right? You know,
and that was the subtlety, I think, of the...
That was really the subtlety that Rob spoke about,
you know, in that series of, you know, am I...
If I left room for God in my, you know, in my,
and again, as an accountant, I feel like, okay,
I can manage this. I can do it, right? I know
how to handle my finances, but that's not trusting
God with a portion of it. So that's a challenge
for me. That was a big challenge for me, actually.
Yeah, over to you, JP. For me, Yeah, I guess
two things. First of all, being a forensic accountant
and also having my own practice just amplifies
the time pressures. As a forensic accountant,
because the assignments are all one -offs, so
there's absolutely zero predictability to when
an assignment is going to come in. how big it's
going to be, and therefore the resources that
will need to be wrapped around it, the urgency
of it. Sometimes you get a call and say, OK,
we need you to be somewhere in basically two
hours in a boardroom downtown because things
are happening tonight. Right. And the bell rings.
So yeah, so it can be just tough to manage at
times and avoid working the crazy hours. But
that's just sort of part of the gig, I'll call
it. And I've been fortunate that it's been able
to just strike a pretty healthy work -life balance.
It's so are there ways that you think your faith
or sorry that your work has impacted your face
So we talked about you know, how your faith impacts
the way that you do your job But are there ways
that you think your job and the doing of that
has taught you things About God or has shaped
your faith in a particular way Yeah, do you want
to jump in JP? Want me to go first? Actually
for me, it's not a tough one. So the question
is how has work affected my faith? Yeah, so as
I look back over the course of my 30 plus year
career and the last 20 years of my own practice,
And I look back, I can, you know, I see unmistakably,
you know, God's hand at work with just, you know,
guiding me and things that happened, but also
didn't happen. And at the time not understanding
why, and it's not really what I had in mind,
but now in the proverbial fullness of time going,
hmm, okay. And just, you know, in God's provision.
I think back when I launched my practice, starting
from nothing, and just everything fell into place.
Office space, check. Staff, check. IT, marketing
support, website design, check, check, check.
Okay. Well, the other thing, clients? Yeah, yeah,
yeah. They showed up. Yeah. So just, uh, yeah,
just seeing, um, God's provision, um, and, uh,
uh, it's just, yeah, I'm a single to me, just
God's involvement, um, and, uh, his faithfulness.
So I just serve to, you know, I guess, reinforce
my faith and just to make it what's the word,
you know, real. Like, it's just not, you know,
Yeah, God is doing things in your life today.
Right. And just look back in amazement, just
again, things that happened, people that were
brought into my life, sometimes for a very short
season to help me with one thing, others, you
know, for a longer period. But just, you know,
the people I needed at the right time. Yeah.
Yeah. And to remember that, like, God cares about
those details of our lives too, right? It's not
just the spiritual stuff. It's the practical,
like right now. Yes. Excellent point. Yeah. God's
really involved, not just is aware, but cares.
Yeah. And to be with you each step of the way.
And just is, yeah, His goodness, His love, and
that's, you know, prayers are not only heard,
but answered. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
I Guess I'll you know again back to my point
being grateful and gratitude for for my employment,
right? So same idea like yeah, it's You know,
I've been blessed and and I want to carry that
attitude and you know, sometimes I think oh,
you know You know, could I be doing you know,
should I be? You know working in a corporate
big company is that so it's not where God needs
me to be right? Oh wants me to be but then I
think yeah that people here, you know You can
be You know again your authentic self you're
you know a Christian in a in any place that God
puts you and you're working I'm working with
people and I'm you know same as you know, I would
anywhere and Yes, I mean that's you know sort
of jumping off JP's comments there. And other
ways, I was thinking how has, again, even the
organizations I'm a part of, so any charitable
organizations, I'm always moved and continue
to be sensitized to... People less fortunate
and things like that and and working for a big
grocery. It's been tough at the big grocery retailers
for the last, you know You know, there's been
a lot of negative press and that sort of thing
and I followed it very closely and it's it's
Caused me to think about a lot of things But
I mean people not being able to afford their
their groceries is a real thing and you know,
so I have to reflect on my role at one of these
big companies and say Is this something we can
do something about? Is this something we should
do? How do we? I'm not going to go too down that
rabbit hole because there's a lot of stuff in
the media that's nonsense. But anyways, still
it touches me that people can't afford to buy
food, right? So anyways, that's just very specific
to things in my own organization and again any
charitable organizations I've been a part of
that if I'm not necessarily as an accountant
but I do think about you know these kind of things
from the financial lens and yeah yeah yeah yeah
for sure I think like in my own life I've been
fortunate I guess is the right word that most
of my jobs have been in ministry settings for
churches or other sort of faith -based organizations
And so in that way, like, my faith is always
very explicitly sort of part of my job. But when
I think about the, yeah, forensic accounting,
not that I think about that too often, but, you
know, in those worlds or in grocery chains or
whatever it is, like, if there were no Christians
in those spaces, right? Like, how different would
they be? Right, and and maybe it doesn't make
it. Maybe you can't fix corporate culture Maybe
you can't fix the big high -level policies, but
you're impacting the culture of the office space
in which you work right and you're creating a
space there where Something can happen. God can
move in that space by by your presence Yeah,
even if it's not, you know this big massive shit.
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, and no, I
yeah culture is That's a good way of putting
it for sure, right? Well, I think people in the
workplace, they noticed how you conduct yourself.
And they notice when you do the right thing,
even though it's not going to be rewarded or
applauded. But I think, yeah, people see that,
hmm, and it resonates with them. And it's just,
it's a different, you know, they see it, you
know, okay, you think differently, you're acting
differently, you handle that differently. And
so that's, yeah, I think our impact in the world.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Thank you
both for sitting down and having this conversation.
I think it's been really helpful to get your
perspective on things and when you were both
talking about, you know, why you went into accounting,
you talked about, you know, being a number sort
of person. And I appreciate that God has created
number sort of people in the world to handle
those things so that I don't have to be a number
sort of person. It's not everybody's thing, that's
for sure. No, but it's so good. Yeah, so thank
you both for this conversation. Oh, you're welcome.
Thanks for inviting us. It's been great. And
thank you for tuning in to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. I hope that however God has
shaped you, whether you are a numbers person
or not, that you are able to find God's calling
in the work that you are doing. And we'll see
you again next week.