Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and this week
I'm sitting down with three very special folks
to talk about their family and how family intersects
with faith. And so, yeah, I'll just get them
to start by introducing themselves. So who do
we have here? My name is Bill, Bill Cumming.
Yes. Yeah, Bradshaw. I'm Bill Cumming. Okay.
And I'm the father of it. You're the father of
it all. Okay. And who do we have here? My name
is Max Bradshaw, and I am the youngest of all
of us. Okay. Okay, well, that makes me in the
middle then, doesn't it? I'm Allie, Allie Bradshaw.
Okay. Bill is my dad. Max is my son. Okay, great.
Yeah, so all of you have been part of... Trinity's
family, Trinity's life at some point. And yeah,
I just thought it would be fun to talk about
how your faith has been similar, but also the
different paths that you have all taken. Yeah,
so maybe the first question that I just have
is in thinking about family, how have your parents
or grandparents helped to sort of shape your
faith journey? Maybe we'll start with you, Bill.
Because I'm the oldest. Well, just because you're
here. Because you're the most handsome. Yes.
I grew up in a Christian family and it became
my way of life from knee high until it came to
the stage where I proclaimed my faith publicly
and joined a church. Sure. But that was a long
time ago. I've never had a Damascus Road event.
I can't say, oh, that's what. Sure. I just, I
grew up with it and grew into it. Yeah. That
wasn't Trinity. No. That was 3 ,000 miles away.
And not even in church I finished up with in
Scotland, but in the village church. Okay. And
I just grew through that, became, as a Presbyterian.
Should I mention that? Oh, sure. Here we go.
You're so welcome, yeah? Yes. She's worried because
I said my mission in life was to convert Anglicans
to Presbyterianism. Oh, I see. And now we've
got you here. Yeah, and that was why I emigrated.
Yeah, I was 50 years an elder in the Church of
Scotland. Okay. It's sort of ingrained into me.
Yeah. But you worship God, whatever you worship
God. Well, of course. But I came to worship here
because they were here. I see. Actually, that's
why we came to Canada. Yes. It wasn't really
a missionary event. Right, just more of a family
event. Yes, sure. Okay. That's a start. Yeah,
no, that's a good start. Yeah, what about for
you, Max? How have your parents or grandparents
influenced your faith? Well, my faith hasn't
been going quite as long as theirs has. But it
really was, we moved to Canada and then we started
coming to this church. And from there, Most of
my faith journey has been here just because this
is where I've been most of my life. And since
then, I've kind of gone off to Guelph and found
a church there. And then there's a church up
in Muskoka where Chloe's parents are. So I have
a few different churches that I've been to. But
this one has been my main one. But really, it's
just because my parents brought me here. This
is where I've grown up, where I've been connected
with other people. And then my grandparents would
come before they moved here. They would come
every six months or so, visit. and then they
come here and sort of get to know people before
they moved here so right everyone was already
coming here and it's just been a nice place to
grow up and get my basis of faith started sure
thanks to my parents yeah yeah for sure and what
about for you Allie I was going to say, Max was
actually baptized in a church also called Trinity
in Bristol in England. Oh, okay. Where he was
born. So you did have a church that you don't
remember before you came here. Well, kind of
like my dad with my, and Max, you know, being
brought up in a Christian household. I was always
at church from the beginning. So church was a
way of life, but it becomes... You know, I think
that's the gift that your parents give to you,
that they take you and you're introduced and
you learn. And then eventually you have to take
your own step and you have to make your own faith
choice. And so I started off in Moncrief, Moncrief
Parish, the Presbyterian Church in East Kilbride,
where I grew up. when Rick and I were married
and living in Bristol. We tried at a couple of
different churches. We ended up in a church called,
it was a Trinity as well, an Anglican church.
And it had a fantastic student life. There would
be a Sunday evening service. And there were hundreds
and hundreds of young adults all in their kind
of... 20s and 30s there. And then I changed to
the 9am service when I had Max. Right. It was
a bit of a shock to the system. I'm sure, yeah.
And then when we moved here, I'd never been before.
We didn't know anyone here, but I did have faith
that we would find a church and I would find,
I know the benefits of a church family. I know
how important it is to have other Christians
around you to support you and encourage you and
guide you. Within a couple of weeks of moving
here, we found Trinity. And after the first service,
I came on my own. Rick was watching the kids
and I came on my own. And I went back home and
I said, that's it. I know where we're going.
I've found it. Wow. Oh, that's so cool. And we've
been here ever since. So that's 21 years this
summer. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so church and faith
has always sort of been a family affair, I guess,
for all of you. It's something you grew up in,
but also something you continue to sort of choose
for yourselves. Yes, even now. Even now. Even
in an Anglican church. God is still in an Anglican
church. And this is life. So I'm wondering, I
know, like, so you've already sort of mentioned,
you know, that we're all at different sort of
life stages. And I think as we grow up and get
different roles and things, that shapes our faith
in different ways. So are there any ways that,
you know, being a parent or a grandparent has
helped to shape your faith in a particular way?
That's a difficult one. Not that I'm aware of.
Sure. But I think somewhere in there, probably.
Okay. And there are stages within that. I mean,
I look at Ali now in the church, and I don't
think I've ever told her this, but when she decided
to declare her faith and join the church, I was
session clerk at the time. And my role with the
minister was to welcome, as we talked about,
new communicants. Okay. And it had never been
shared with me until just before the event who
the new communicants were. Oh, OK. So the minister
knew. Yes. But I got a bit of a surprise when
Alison Cumming was on the list. Yeah? Because
I knew nothing about it. She'd done this on her
own. Right. And Rob talked about it. or sins
and all that. My pride, I have to admit, I was
very proud when she did it. And I can always
remember when it came to the elders all went
along and shook hands with them and welcomed
them. And when I came to Ali, I thought, nah,
I'll kiss her. So I shook hands with the rest
and I kissed her. I really was, I was very proud
of her because she had done that. That's part
of the development of the family and the faith.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And it's carried on.
What about for you, Ali? Are there ways that
being a parent has shaped your faith or changed
your understanding of God? See, I would say absolutely.
When I became a parent, I really had a completely
different view of the depth of God's love. And
it also... Shows a different depth of mercy and
forgiveness. And it just changes your prayer,
changed my prayer life. You know, it's a different
kind of focus. Just really realizing how much
you have to surrender to God's will and God's
timing from sleeping through the night to kids
going to school, to them traveling, to just not...
I'm not in control. It really did. It taught
me about love. It taught me about surrender.
It taught me about trust. So all of that, really,
when I had my boys, I have another one as well.
Connor's working today. When Max was the first
and Connor's younger. And when I had my boys,
it really, and I thought, my goodness, if I have
this love for them, and God is bigger than all
of this, oh my goodness, how much does he love
us? Yeah. So that changed my perspective and
my relationship with God. Yeah, for sure. Every
aspect of my faith, I think it deepened it. And
that's the thing, you know, as Dad said, I'm
the same, you know, it wasn't the Damascus Road
event for me either. But there have been events
along the way which have been pretty life -changing
on my faith journey and becoming a parent was
one of them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think there's
an awareness. As you grow up in it and as you
grow with it, there is an awareness of God's
love and God's presence in your life. Yeah. Yeah,
you get used to it. It's a bit like, I always
feel about prayer. You can have a particular
prayer at a particular prayer time, but there
are many times during a day when... You just
have that thought and you pray to God that, you
know, thank you or more often help me. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think that
you grow up in that and you get used to it and
it becomes a way of life. Yeah, for sure, for
sure. So thinking about... your family, and you're
all sort of growing up in faith together and
in different stages and things. So how would
you say that your family has encouraged you to
grow in your faith? Maybe we'll start with you,
Max. Yeah, I didn't get to go in the last one.
Yeah. Yes, you're not yet a parent. No, not yet.
Not for a while, probably. That's okay. I don't
know if I'm ready to be a grandparent yet. I
think everyone in my family, I think, kind of
serves in the church yeah so that was a pretty
big example growing up like my mother was always
involved in like rector's warden stuff just on
the board doing different things and my dad does
a lot of kids church stuff and a lot of stuff
with the prayer committee now so everyone has
always been kind of involved in the church so
I think when I was younger kind of middle school
to high school, I did a lot of the kids' church
stuff here as well. And I think that was a pretty
good way for me to get involved. There was helping
out at kids' church. There was, of course, Camp
Trinity. A big shout out there. Lots of fun.
Great time. And I was even in Nicky and the Bradshaw
Boys. band that we had for a while okay it was
very cool there was a couple years where we had
a band downstairs um we would do a couple songs
kind of every other week and that was that was
a lot of fun yeah kind of our own little worship
band for the kids uh it was a lot of fun songs
like god's love is bigger than a burger okay
wow It's kind of more of a basis. You still know
the words for it, don't you? Oh, yeah. Bigger
than a burger, bigger than a house, bigger than
an elephant, and bigger than a mouse. Okay. Fantastic.
Poetry. Yes. But it's like a basis to how we
can introduce kids, right? Yeah. So I found,
I mean, my dad does kids' church. I did kids'
church. I think it's a great way to serve because
you are. You have to know the material to teach
it or explain it. So then it forces you to kind
of look more in depth. So I think just everyone
being involved in the church kind of helped me
to get involved and to serve just for the community
and the church. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What about
for you, Allie? Are there ways that your family
has helped you to grow in your faith? I think,
you know, there's obviously I learned a lot through
my mum and dad and their encouragement. And,
you know, the same thing. I grew up seeing my
dad and my mum doing things in the church. In
fact, in some ways, I feel like I became my dad
a bit. All those things, you're like, I will
never do that. I will never do that. And probably
when I was about 12, that consisted of... he's
just always talking. We can't get home. Church
is finished. I've heard that. I've heard that
from the boys just to walk home sometimes on
a Sunday because Rick and I were doing stuff.
But then at the same time, my kids have helped
encourage me and they've inspired me. When Connor
was 16, just before COVID hit, he... He did some
work with the minister then, Simon, and Connor
preached twice. He preached in the January and
he preached, he preached, he spoke. But he spoke
from his heart and he spoke from his faith. And
I was so proud, just proud to see him owning
his faith and see him sharing what he's learned
and where, you know. just where he wants to go
with his faith and how he talks to his friends
about it. So I learn from my kids too. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. I think that's quite amusing
actually that you talk about you see you do what
I did. I can always remember back home it was,
oh, oh, you're Ali's dad. Okay. And then I come
here and it's, You know how it is, Dad. Nothing
changes. No, no, guess not. But what about for
you? How has your family encouraged you or helped
you grow in your faith? Well, as I already said,
I'm not conscious of my family having done it.
Again, I'm conscious of them being there. What
Ali said about having to... going our own because
I was always talking to somebody or doing something.
I always vowed I wouldn't actually get that way
because I had been there. My father was like
that. And I didn't want to become like my father
in the church. I wanted to be more involved with
my family. And guess what? I got involved in
the church. I became very like my father in the
church. And his time was something like 20 years
as a session clerk. I was 15 years a session
clerk. Okay. 50 years an elder. So, yes, I was
steeped in it. Yeah. And it became more of a
priority than my family. And I'm not recommending
that. And I'm not saying it's a good thing. Sure.
But, yes, I fell into the trap. Yeah. And I think
it's worth noting. You should limit what you
do. You've got to get your priorities. Sure.
Church is a priority, but your family should
top it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting
to hear you all sort of reflect in different
ways about how you look at your parents and you
say, okay, well, that's good maybe, but that's
not how I'm going to be. And then, yeah, for
better or for worse, we often end up mimicking
that. And it's really easy. You know, it's the
whole Mary Martha thing. It's really easy when
you're in a busy church community with a lot
going on. It's really easy to get involved. But
also remembering that it's not just about serving.
It's about growing your faith. And what you're
doing, where you're volunteering, is it also...
supporting your spiritual life and your faith
development. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It does
give me a glimpse as to what I am most likely
going to see of myself in the future, if everyone
in my family has been doing the exact same thing
over and over, especially now that I'm engaged
to someone whose father is a minister and mother
does a lot of kids' church as well. Right. It's
probably going to be a lot of serving in the
future. Sure, sure, yeah. And I think Allie was
sharing with me earlier this week, you're also
thinking about, you know, yeah, your own sort
of church. leadership path as well yeah so I
guess yeah we have to look kind of well we've
just moved so we were at a place in Guelph and
we're going to a church and there was actually
a few people from Trinity who had gone to Guelph
University as well and we would see them sometimes
at the church so that was kind of nice it was
new people plus familiar faces yeah so it kind
of helps you get more makes it easier to go to
the church yeah you know people you're gonna
see yeah But now we're in Kitchener, so we're
going to have to do kind of the whole thing again.
Look for a new church, kind of scope things out,
see what kind of vibes they have. Sure. And just
kind of figure out where we want to go from there.
Yeah, yeah. When we came here, we didn't think
we were coming to a new church because we've
been coming here for 21 years. Well, I think
you've been 10 years. You've been about 10 years
where you've been visiting and you would come
for six weeks at a time sometimes. So mom and
dad already had friends here. You know, people
on the door when they came in already knew their
names. Yes, it didn't sound like a new church
when we came here because we'd been here. Right.
Yeah. It was a bit different. For sure. So are
there ways that your... faith looks similar to
or different from other people in your family
i mean you you've also talked about okay we're
walking in the path of our parents um but i think
we're you're we're all individuals as well um
yeah so how does your faith look similar to or
different from others okay you want to start
go ahead i never knew my paternal grandpa my
paternal grandfather okay i knew my paternal
grandmother but she didn't attend church okay
and my matern i never knew my maternal grandmother
i knew my maternal grandfather and he had nothing
to do with the church okay so i was moving my
parents rather were moving in a different sort
of path sure from my own perspective well ali
has a brother yes And we went to church as a
family. His mother told him, no, he had to go
to church. There was none of this skipping off
until he was 16. Okay. On his 16th birthday,
he decided he wasn't going back to church. And
I don't think he's been inside the door since,
other than to see her married. And Max baptised.
And Max baptised. That saddens me, but... i know
i'm not alone so i know a lot of good christian
guys whose family have the same sort of thing
that maybe one of the families in church and
yeah one has nothing to do with it i don't know
why that happens um and it saddens me but you
never know yeah the holy spirit could knock on
his door someday And I hope something happens
because it means my granddaughter is having no
introduction to the church. And that's sad. Yeah.
And I'd like to see that happen. Yeah, for sure.
So we can only pray that somewhere along the
line. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The dark will come.
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that people can
be raised in the same way. But we are individuals
and we make our own choices about how we respond
to that. For sure. The interesting thing is,
okay, they don't come to church. We don't love
them less as individuals. No, of course not.
Yeah, for sure. Just saddened a bit by it, but
yeah. Yeah, for sure. And as I say, I live in
hope. Yeah, it's good. Well, you also, like my
father wasn't initially a Christian when they
got, or... first started dating, my mother did
the flirt and convert. And it worked really well
in your case. I used to take him to youth group.
Okay. He would come to youth group with me. Okay.
Some weekends. In doing that, you were able to
bring him to the church. And then also when his
parents would come and visit, they would also
come to Trinity as well. So same kind of thing.
They were offset from. him kind of right every
few months we get one set and then the other
few months is the next grandparents um so when
they come and visit they would also come to the
church so then it was like our whole family was
known in the church yeah so people knew both
sets of grandparents which was nice even if they
weren't here at all the times but then on the
other side my uncle and aunts and their kids
don't really go to or don't do church either
so yeah it's the same kind of thing one kid is
kind of at church but I guess they were never
brought to church in the same way right well
your dad and his brother went to church as kids
grandma and papa went to church and actually
what was wonderful was after grandma and papa
came to church here then they found a church
again back home in Scotland so they went back
to church The Holy Spirit knocked on their door
while they were here. Yeah. So the darts do fly,
Dad. The darts do fly. But I think another way
to look at are things similar or different. We
all like different kinds of worship and different
kind of churches and church experience. Oh, here
she goes. No, I was thinking of you this morning
when we sang Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine.
Yes. You know, that's a much more traditional.
That's the kind of... worship song that we would
sing in church when I grew up. Yes. Let me just
do a little confession. So when my brother and
I used to go, when we were wee, we all would
go into church with our own hymn books. So there's
a real difference to worship styles now. And
we'd have our hymn books and there would be a
plaque on the wall with the hymn numbers in them
and Neil and I, the first thing we used to do
when we went into church. was look up the hymn
and see how many verses it was and did it have
a chorus? Yes. Because if it was six verses with
a chorus, we would be like, oh. Yeah, yeah. And
so, but I know that my dad loves when we, my
mum and dad both love when we have more traditional
hymns mixed in. And Libby does that quite a lot
here. There's a kind of integration of worship
styles. But I would, you know, talking about
similar and different, we all have slightly different
types of worship style that we prefer and we
enjoy. And we hear, you know, our hearts are
touched in different ways, even within the one
worship service. You know, is it music? Is it
the prayer? Is it? And again, it's different
in each church. I'm sure when you and Chloe,
when you talk about what you'll be looking for
in Kitchener, so what will you be looking for
in your new church? I mean, it's a really good
question. I think we'll probably be looking for
a church that has people kind of our age. Kitchener
is close to Waterloo University. So there's going
to be kind of a younger crowd around. But we
do both enjoy worship. So we will be looking
for a church that's not that's kind of fits our
same kind of worship ideals. Chloe used to sing
with Libby here back when she was here. So she
has also had involvement in worship. So somewhere
that I think we can find a way to serve either
through worship or potentially also working with
kids. Chloe currently works as an educational
assistant. So she's already doing kids stuff
during the week. So I don't know if she might
want to break there and find a different way
to serve. But somewhere I think I had nice welcoming.
It might not be somewhere as big as Trinity.
There's a lot of people here. So if there's less
people, it might be easier for us to kind of
get in there and meet some people. It's not as
scary. But yeah, somewhere I think kind of like
that, we're just going to feel comfortable. And
somewhere where the preacher, of course, we...
think we can hear from or speaks to us. For sure,
for sure. I thought you would suffer. And so
what's interesting to me, and I think is true
of... most people in younger generations is you
didn't mention a particular denomination on that
list of things. No, I didn't. And that might
scare him. Yes. Because he's Presbyterian and
wants to convert the Ancients. I've come a long
way. Yes. I think there's a lot more to finding
a place because the one that we're, the place
that we were going to in Guelph is more of a
Baptist church. Okay. So that's already a few
different things going on here. But I think somewhere
where we can find, A place that wants to worship
Jesus and love Jesus, bring other people to Jesus,
I think is the main thing. And then kind of there
might be some different liturgy stuff that goes
on. But we'll just have to kind of figure out
the vibe, I guess, and see how it is. Because
we just want to celebrate Jesus and worship him.
I love that. And because having a stereotype
of a church is so wrong because Jesus is Jesus.
And he's never changing. And I must admit, when
we moved here, one of the things we said to the
estate agent was we want to be able to walk,
have choice for a couple of churches. And I'd
pegged that there were three churches in Streetsville,
the United, the Presbyterian and the Anglican.
And I have to say, I hadn't thought about going
to the Anglican church. Just being Scottish and
having my encouraging father. And when I was,
it was one morning, I was in a children's play
group and I was telling the woman who ran it,
who was Muslim, the Muslim woman was running
it. And I was saying, I'm looking for a church.
I've got these little babies. And she said to
me, oh, she said, I know a woman that comes,
goes to a great church, family church, great
atmosphere. And she called the woman and put
her straight on the phone to me. And it turns
out. At the time, our associate minister was
called Lance Dixon and it was his wife, Kelly.
And Kelly said, I'll meet you at the back of
the church. Okay. And welcomed me in. And it
was when I got here and I saw it was an Anglican
church. Right. And, you know, it didn't matter
about the name or the denomination. Trinity was
just welcoming and friendly and the community
right from the first day. Yeah. So. Oh, that's
so good. An interesting name. I remember Lance.
Lance baptised Connor. He baptised Connor, yeah.
Okay. There you go. So I'm not new to Trinity.
No, no. I'm not new to Anglicans. No. I've been
around Anglicans. Yes, yes. That's right. Slowly
acclimatising. Yes, yes. It takes longer to change.
I don't think I've converted any. Oh, man. Keep
trying. Okay. But there we go. We're all unique.
Yep. We're all unique, but we're all family and
all loved by God. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Oh,
that's so good. Yeah. I think it's so neat to
sort of hear, like what I'm hearing in your family
story is that it's a family effort, right? That
you all bring different things to the table.
You all influence and lead each other. But yeah,
that you are also individual people who have
made this decision to keep coming to church,
keep showing up, keep following Jesus. in the
ways that you're individually called as part
of a collective unit. Yeah. Yeah, and I think,
honestly, that's probably the way that it should
be. If we all lived in a perfect world, we would
be people following Jesus in a community of people
following Jesus. Yeah. Whatever that looks like
for us. It's Mother's Day. I think I've got you
through in the point. Yes. Mother had a bigger
influence, I think, on Ali and... Neil than I
had. Okay. Because she was more with them. Yeah.
Okay. So credit her mother. Yes, of course. Yes.
Always, always credit the moms. The moms are
very important people. Oh, I'm not stupid. Good.
Well, thank you all very much. This has been
a really fun, really hopeful conversation. Yeah,
and great to get to know you all a little bit
better. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you.
And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. I hope that you're also able
to take some of these reflections and maybe talk
about faith with your own family and think about
what your faith journey has looked like wherever
you are on that spectrum. And we will see you
again next week.