Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and this week
I am sitting down with a couple of other young
adults here at Trinity and we're just going to
talk a little bit about their faith journey and
specifically how that intersects with their families
and their cultural background being, you know,
kids of Chinese immigrants. So I think that'll
be a really... interesting, really helpful conversation.
So maybe, can we start over here? Can you just
introduce yourself a little bit? Yeah. My name
is Jesse. I've been here at Trinity for about
like 15 years or so. I run one of the life groups
for young adults and thanks for having me. Yeah.
Okay. And what about for you? I'm Melissa. I've
I only started going to Trinity, I think, just
like two or three months. But I am also part
of Jessie's Life Group, and it's just been wonderful
here. I love it here so much. Good, yeah. So
maybe we can just start and you can tell us a
little bit about your family's sort of backgrounds.
So as I said, you both come from parents who
are immigrants to Canada from a Chinese background.
So maybe, yeah, tell us a little bit about that
story. You want to start Jesse? Yeah, so for
my parents, they came from Hong Kong. So I'm
from Hong Kong descent. I was born here in Canada,
though, in terms of like, I think my parents
came here in Canada roughly around 19, late 1970s
or early 1980s. It was like one of the first
waves I think of Hong Kong expats up before Hong
Kong was passed over from British rule to communists.
And so that's probably the reason why they came
over here. And it's interesting as they actually
met through church as well. I think it was in
a church in Peterborough. And yeah, so that's
kind of like the background for me when it comes
to where my parents from or anything and kind
of tied to their faith as well. They started
our family. So they immigrated here sort of separately
and then met once they were in Canada. Okay,
cool. And what about for your family, Melissa?
So my family and I, we immigrated to Canada from
China when I was two years old, so in 2001. And
they met in China. We were married in China.
I was born there. When we came here, my parents
are not Christian, but they did bring me to a
Chinese Christian church just to be part of community,
which is something a lot of people from immigrant
backgrounds do, because churches are welcoming,
they don't turn people away, and so that's where
I was introduced to God. Melissa, you said, you
know, your parents didn't come from a Christian
background, but you were introduced through this
church. So like, what has faith sort of looked
like in your life? Yeah, it's interesting because
thankfully I'm very blessed that my parents,
even though they personally have not given their
life to Jesus, they are very encouraging and
accepting of my faith, and I know that's not...
a story that everyone has. So even though I,
you know, like I love going to church, I wanted
to get involved, even when I was baptized, my
mom and dad were both there. So sometimes it's
just like, me having to take this step, but I
have been fortunate in having supportive parents,
and I fully believe that God will reveal himself
to them one day, and I'm praying for that. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. And what about for you, Jesse,
what has your sort of faith journey with your
family looked like? It's kind of the, quite the
opposite, where I'm lucky enough to be born and
raised in a Christian family, so I guess that
for both my parents, since they met in church
and everything, when they did have me and my
sisters, we were basically raised in the faith,
especially in regards to, like, kind of the exposure
in general. So we went to like church every Sunday,
a lot of stuff when we were exposed to the kids,
like, you know, Veggie Tales, I think was, most
kids back in the 90s, how they had Christian
content kind of provided for them. And then we
also have like, you know, devotions and other
stuff. So it's always kind of been a big part
of the backdrop for me, though, I would say,
I think with like many people who are born of
the faith, you do have to actually take your
time to actually commit yourself to Christ. And
for me, I don't think I really took my faith
seriously in terms of having ownership of, you
know, Moving forward my own faith journey until
roughly around grade four and five for myself
So there was some time before I really got to
that point. Sure. Yeah. Yeah It's it's interesting
because you're both, you know, you're coming
from different places But the sort of commonality
is like that the church provided you with a sense
of community, right? And especially like you
said your parents met at at a church, right Jesse?
So there's that sense of like yeah, like As you
sort of said really, really nicely Melissa, like
when immigrants are coming in and looking for
community, like church is a place that really
provides that. So yeah, that's really cool. Are
there ways that you think that your sort of cultural
background has influenced the way that you express
your faith or the beliefs that you have? Yeah.
I would say that I I mean I can only speak for
people who are coming from um kind of like a
Chinese or East Asian background but I believe
that this sentiment carries across for like all
Asian Christians which is that when you think
of someone who's Christian you don't visualize
someone who is a basically someone who's Chinese
because I think Christianity has been seen as
more of like a western religion right and I think
just having kind of like that um idea because
Christianity it's not a western religion it's
it's literally not that you know when you say
I'm Christian and they're like oh but you're
also Chinese right and it's just like well why
can't those be the same things and I think it
is because like people don't associate Chinese
people with being Christian or people from East
Asian backgrounds as being Christian and I think
that sometimes has impacted me where sometimes
I'm like oh like very young I'm like this is
something that doesn't go together. Like I think
it doesn't go together because I'm not seeing
that on the media or around me, right? But then
really God was just like... As I grew closer
to him just realizing that like there's no nationality
or ethnicity or background associated with Christianity
Christianity is for every single person Jesus
died for every single person and I think it's
important to break down those like Stereotypes
associated with Christianity because it can be
a disservice to people who are coming from a
Chinese background And they might start questioning
if they can be Christian. It's like you can be
so I think in that aspect sometimes being Chinese
might caused a bit of tension when I was younger,
but God really led me through that. Yeah, yeah,
for sure. And you said when you sort of first
came, you were attending a Chinese church, right?
And so are there ways that like that experience
is different than being, you know, Trinity is
not a Chinese church. There are some folks of
different Asian backgrounds, but it's predominantly
white, right? Yeah. So how has that been different
for you? Again, I can only speak for myself.
It hasn't been too different because I did grow
up in Mississauga, which is incredibly diverse.
So I think it's always been something that doesn't
like if I'm in a space where there's not many
Chinese people or there are many Chinese people
I'm like, it's I'm cool with it either way. I
think it's just I fell in love with Trinity just
because everyone's so warm and you give back
to the community. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What
about for you, Jesse? Are there ways that you
feel like your cultural background, your family
background has shaped your faith? Yeah, it's
interesting because for my, compared to Melissa's
experience, I felt maybe because I, starting
off even for my first school, it was a Christian
private school and it was very diverse in that
one too. So I didn't quite have the same experience
in terms of like coming to grips with it, seeing
as like a Western religion. I felt like it was
quite broad when it came to. ethnicity because
there's so many people in my school that... they're
black, they're Chinese, they're white, it doesn't
matter. But I feel like in terms of my actual
Chinese background, the funny part is that for
most first generation Chinese immigrants, I'd
be considered a banana. So yellow on the outside,
white on the inside. I definitely have some aspects
of that. But I think one of the things I did
inherit culturally speaking was kind of the,
and this kind of ties into a lot of East Asian
cultures as well, that deference to authority,
especially regarding your elders and family.
And so that's one thing that me and my younger
sister, always found weird when it came to when
we heard people's struggles like, oh, you know,
sometimes I feel like I want to like blame God
for stuff, especially like, let's say things
bad happen or things don't pan out the way you
want it. And from our perspective, it's like
you never blame the person who's like on top
almost. You always say like, oh, it must be something
wrong with me. Right. So me and my sister always
feel like, oh, like we never blame God if something
went wrong or we were unhappy with something
that happened or he didn't necessarily answer
our prayers. We're like, oh, maybe something
about maybe I'm not worthy enough or maybe God's
punishing me because I'm sinful, which is like
a double It's good in the sense that you never
really, so any case where, you know, something
go my way and undermine my faith in God, but
it was also not a healthy mindset in the sense
that it could lead to like potential self -pity
or loathing. And that was something I had to
kind of like navigate myself through early on
in my faith journey before I came to realize
that's not really the way to think about it.
But that was kind of the default based on kind
of the Chinese cultural backgrounds raised with
my parents. Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting
to think about. Yeah, how those those power dynamics
play a role right in in our faith and I think
Yeah, just so interesting even I think that like
for folks like myself who sort of grew up because
I grew up in rural Nova Scotia We're like, yeah
everybody not everybody but most people looked
like me and we all sort of had the it was rather
homogenous in a lot of senses, right? So we always
sort of I never really had to stop and reflect
on like, how does my culture influence my faith
because they just like, everybody was doing the
same thing, right? Yeah, so then to think about,
oh, like this is how, yeah, our cultural perspectives
really do make a difference in like, how we understand
God and how we experience faith. Yeah. Are there
other beliefs or other sort of practices that
sort of stand out to you in terms of, you know,
how you think about your faith? Honestly, like
I feel like some aspects of it's like for example
like the holidays okay so like it's interesting
because like for times New Year usually it's
more you know within those like the zodiac stuff
and everything sure but if anything it's funny
because for our family we kind of use it as another
excuse to thank God for stuff. So it's almost
like another Thanksgiving, but Chinese -oriented.
So we shift a little bit away from maybe the
more Chinese -focused myths towards just using
that more of a reason to praise God instead.
So there's cases like that where we almost Christianize
parts of the Chinese cultural offense that we
have. Not to say we ignore it entirely, but obviously
that's more of a focus rather than necessarily
some of the more traditional aspects that we
still It's mainly the food for us and the reason
to come together as family and then celebrate
God for what He's given us as well. So I think
that's one example, I think, off the top of my
head. Yeah, yeah. I would say, so, you know,
my family, we do celebrate Chinese New Year as
well. We celebrate the Mid -Autumn Festival and
that's just food. We just kind of eat it. In
terms of kind of like the more traditional aspects
and like, you know, the reasons, like you said,
the zodiac or like the moon. Myself and my parents
and I we don't really know too much about that
It's not something that they really taught me
when we came to Canada So it is like I have a
lot more knowledge about like Canadian holidays
than I do about Chinese holidays But I think
it's important that you know, whether you're
coming from a Chinese background or from any
background That's not Eurocentric and you're
celebrating holidays that are not Canadian holidays,
you can still include God in that. You know,
it's like if we're celebrating a new year according
to this other calendar, like you said, like still
give thanks to God for a new year. Thank God
for the food, for the community, for the people.
I think just really just keeping God at the center
of everything you're doing and just also being
mindful too that maybe there's some things you're
not fully comfortable with and that's okay. You
can just say no to that. Yeah, yeah, for sure,
for sure. And I know, so you mentioned your parents
came from Hong Kong. And is your family from
mainland China? Yeah, okay. So Jesse, you were
mentioning to me before, like in your family,
you speak Mandarin? Cantonese. Oh, Cantonese.
And your family speaks Mandarin. Yeah. Okay.
So are there ways that you think that your language
background has sort of influenced your faith?
I mean, I know If you've been attending, you
know, English -speaking churches, that might
not be as much of a thing, but I know sometimes
when I go and visit people in other countries,
like, the way that they think about God is different
because of the language that they use to think
about God. So are there ways that that is also
true for you guys? I would say personally for
me, because I have... I grew up more English
speaking than I am Mandarin. That is the language
I feel more comfortable listening to sermons
in that I don't really know if it might be different
if someone were saying a sermon in Mandarin or
Cantonese. Maybe that's something my parents
can speak on since they're more fluent in that
language. I would say that Something that's interesting
is you know even the Bible itself. It wasn't
originally written in English, right? Yeah, and
but by being translated to English some of the
words did lose the nuances and complexities that
the words had and maybe Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic
and so I sometimes wonder you know because there
are some words in Mandarin that You just don't
have words for an English right that I wonder
if it may be a translate it could translate closer
to the original text of the Bible if it is a
Mandarin or maybe it's a little bit different
and you have to look at it through more of a
Chinese context. So I think that's something
that I think I would love to experience if I
were to grow my Mandarin speaking skills. I think
I'm going to send a spot to Melissa because there's
a reason why I set up Medana. So that functionally
also means that I'm almost like a literate when
it comes to Cantonese sometimes. So a lot of
my information comes from my dad who's actually
fluent in everything. And so it's interesting
because sometimes he tells me like the literal
translations, for example, when we call God in
Cantonese, it's tin foo, which is basically like
sky God. But then it's interesting because then
they also when they say, like, for Jesus, it's,
uh, yeah, so, which is like, I think, sort of,
sort of, like, be similar to, like, Yeshua, like,
just, like, closer to the original, uh, I think,
like, Jewish Aramaic that they would use to,
like, say Jesus' name. So, it's interesting seeing
different parts where, like, it's literal, just
like, okay, we're just gonna use, like, Chinese
words for this, and then other ones where, like,
they try to, kind of, like, um, anglicize it
in the way they actually say the name. So, again,
I don't know about, like, the content, so I'd
definitely ask more on that, but... The only
thing I can kind of bring up with, and this is
the weird tidbit, that's funny because I think
this is less to do with the language itself and
probably the context of when I guess Christian
is viewed through a different lens. This is a
little bit different because this is obviously
tinged by. the communist version on the mainland.
But like I know that they rewrite parts of the
Bible that didn't actually happen through there.
Right. But those are like the state -sponsored
ones, not the underground churches I would I
think are legitimate. So just to give you an
example, this is a really bad one. This is one
that came up because I took an East Asian course
and they talked about the Bible there. There's
you know the part where you know they were going
to stone the woman for I think being like a prostitute
or whatever. Oh yeah for adultery. So let he
who casts, let he without sin cast for stone.
Right. And so It's funny for that one because
I think they changed it to say like They actually
ended up stoning her instead and just like oh
and they tried flaming her in the context of
like Oh, no one's perfect. So you can do it.
You can you can just do it. Anyways, I was like,
oh that's wrong. That's that's very That's very
bad. I know I know it was just interesting like
wow, okay, they taste a lot. Yeah. Yeah interesting
Yes Well, okay. Yeah so you're obviously, folks
coming from Chinese backgrounds, but you're also
young adults hanging out here in our church.
And so I think sometimes that also creates differences
in the way that we experience our faith versus,
you know, kids, obviously, or versus, you know,
older adults. So what do you think, like, how
has your experience at this age being in this
sort of community, how has that shaped your faith?
Because when I was younger and I was reading
the Bible, I'll be honest, like, I was in high
school, like middle school, reading KJV and I
was like, I don't know what's happening, but
I'm just gonna keep reading. I'm like, I don't
know what's happening. But I think now that,
and so when I was younger, a lot of times, like
following God, it did feel a little bit like,
like Jesse said, like I had to or I was gonna
be punished. And I think I was looking at through
a lens where I didn't have a lot of, you know,
adults that were kind of guiding me. So I was
just trying to understand it myself, but now
being an adult and I know that there's versions
other than the KJV and I can read and I can learn.
It's like, I feel really, really grateful to
be in this place where I know more about who
God is and I see his love all around me. And
I think that's something that, you know, how
you understand God in the Bible when you're younger
is different than how you understand God in the
Bible when you're older. I think I've understood
more about God's love now that I'm older. understand
that I also can be a light for other people,
that Jesus can work through me for other people.
When I was younger, I didn't really see that.
I think I didn't feel like as a kid I could.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. What about for you, Jesse?
Yeah, no, I think a big part of the kind of being
in a... in your faith journey as a young adult
compared to maybe when you're younger. I feel
like it's a lot more communal now because everyone's
kind of roughly at that life step where you can
you have all had these experiences and everyone
has different parts of their faith journey but
everyone's really open to kind of sharing and
supporting one another. I feel like obviously
when you're like going through Sunday school
or you know other stuff you're kind of just going
in there for like the Sunday and you just don't
really see each other outside of that. I know
youth group also exists but I feel like it's
quite different once you're actually you know,
actually you're intentionally meeting every week
when you have a work life and you have all this
other stuff happening and you're actually setting
aside and everyone kind of knows, you know, how
life is. And I think we're also a lot more open
to saying like, hey, we need help with this or
we can actually have deeper discussions. That's
kind of facilitated by us more so than the church
itself. Like obviously we're still meeting within
the church and we're part of the community. But
I think that makes a big difference to really
you know, grow in your faith alongside other
people. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's that aspect of
like chosen community versus like youth group
is like great. And you like get all of these
different people together. But when you're still
living under your parents, like. rules and house.
Like it's like, okay, I'm going to go because
like somebody's forcing me to go. Yeah. It's
like, it's kind of like facilitated for you,
right? But this was like, again, like I think
that found aspect of that group and choosing
to be part of that community and building it
with your own. It's, it's a lot more, I think
intimate because of that. Cause you can see the
different parts of the group that you've contributed.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean like for you
too, Melissa, like, you know, you, you don't
have a family that's like pressuring you into
church, right? And so you are, yeah. You're choosing
that community. Yeah, if anything, it's if you
guys meet my mom, it's more so me being like,
mom, let's go to church. Let's go to church.
Right. And I think that's something that, you
know, not even just for people who are coming
from a non -Christian family, even just anyone
coming from any Christian family that even, you
know, when you're younger, the understanding
that you have about God and actually having that
relationship with Jesus is something that I think
you can make that decision multiple times in
your life and ultimately like dedicate yourself
to Jesus whether you're a kid or adult but I
definitely think that you know when you are in
a community of like -minded people it just it
kind of like for me it kind of reaffirmed that
like yeah like I don't have to go through this
alone I can be around other people and not only
that I can also be alive for other people that
they could maybe They're like, oh, okay now I
want to come to church and they learn about Jesus.
Yeah Yeah, and to get to do that in a community
of people like we So I'm also in this life group
that the two of you are in. Yeah. So to get to
do that in a community of people who have some
similarities. We're all in similar life stages
and have some similar experiences, but also are
so diverse. People diverse ethnically, diverse
in terms of work and schooling background and
all of these things. Yeah, I think it really
enriches our faith. Right? It gives us this space
where we get to figure it out together and we
get to like learn from each other. Right? And
see like, oh, like I never would have thought
about it that way. Or like, you know, this this
experience that you're bringing in like helps
to illuminate the scripture in a new way. Yeah,
I agree. And I think, you know, Again, I can
only speak for myself, but when I was younger,
I saw Christianity kind of like in a one -size
-fits -all kind of thing. But now that I've grown
and even just being in Life Group and being in
Trinity, just understanding that you can come
from so many different backgrounds, but what
connects us all is just Jesus. It's Jesus, right?
And it's like you don't have to be like another
person to call yourself a Christian. Yeah, I'm
grateful to learn that. Yeah, super cool. I think
this has been a really sort of helpful way for
us to start to understand. what it looks like
to bring our whole selves into our faith, right?
You know, you reflected Melissa on this point
that like, you know, at one point maybe you thought
like, oh, Christianity isn't for someone like
me, someone who looks like me or has my background.
But you found a home in it, right? And that's
really beautiful. And something I just like love.
like learning about, I just love learning about
history and just learning about how the church
spread and the missionaries and, you know, not
even just like for China, even just like for
like other countries as well. This, I think someone
might need a fact check me, but I believe it
was Saint Thomas, doubting Thomas, who actually
brought the gospel to India, you know, and that
was something I didn't know because I just automatically
assumed like, oh, it just went to North America,
but no there's such a rich deep history of Christianity
all over the world and there's Christians literally
in every single country. There's you know Christians
who are being persecuted for their faith, who
are dying for their faith, who have to like are
imprisoned for their faith or have to kind of
like hide it so that they aren't you know imprisoned
or killed and I think it's just like if anyone
who Maybe it's from a Chinese background from
a background that's different than what they've
seen in the media when it comes to Christianity
I just want to say like explore that because
like Christianity is for you, you know Jesus
is for you And ultimately it's God's will that
not oh my gosh I don't want to say the scripture
the verse wrong, but it's like God he Doesn't
intend for any of his children to be to be lost.
Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's just Christianity
is for you. It doesn't matter where you're coming
from. Yeah, and as you were talking about, you
know, Thomas or whoever it was that brought the
gospel like to India, I was thinking like Christianity
never started in North America. Christianity
didn't even start in like Great Britain or something.
It started in the Middle East, right? I mean
like Christianity was in Africa before it went
anywhere else, right? And the Ethiopian Bible
is older than the KJV Bible, you know, so I think
that when we perpetuate, you know, I think people
maintain the stereotype that Christianity, again,
is a Western religion. But I think it's important
to break that down because if we don't break
that down, it can make a lot of people feel like
Christianity isn't for them and then the meaning
of the gospel gets lost, right? Because Jesus
died for all of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
100%. Yeah. Yeah, oh, that's so good. Yeah, no,
it's so great to just recognize that Jesus was
for everybody, right? Jesus was not just a one
dude looking for everybody to be exactly like
Jesus. I mean, yes, like Jesus, but not like
Jesus in ethnicity or language or any of those
like superficial labels. Yeah, there's not a
cookie cutter approach when it comes to it. And
so you can come as you are to Jesus where you're
at. And I think that's the biggest part is that
it doesn't matter what stage of life you're in.
God is always open there for you, right? Yeah,
yeah. So good. Yeah, well, thank you both very
much. This has been a really good conversation.
And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. I hope that you have also been
able to find some hope and some encouragement
to figure out what Jesus looks like for you and
how you are also called to be part of this beautiful,
diverse family. And we'll see you next week.