Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is
Bill. I'm Justin. And we are here on Easter Sunday
to talk about the reason for Easter Sunday, which
is resurrection. Resurrection. Yeah, it's a pretty
cool thing. It's a fun word. Yep. Yeah. So yeah,
I really just wanted us to sort of sit down and
talk about, you know, why is Easter Sunday such
a big deal? And why? does this resurrection continue
to sort of matter for us? Yeah, so this whole
weekend, Rob sort of took us through it in the
sermon. You know, there's Good Friday, when we
remember that Christ was crucified. There's Saturday,
which is a sort of day of waiting and confusion
and nobody really knows what to think. And then
there's today, where we celebrate Christ's resurrection.
So I want us to first reflect on like how to
each of those things relate to one another. Why
do we need a crucifixion and a resurrection?
And yeah, how do they matter? When I was talking
with someone else about this this morning, they
very matter -of -factly said, well, Jesus can't
just stay dead. And I was like, you know what?
Fair. That's true. Peter said it was impossible
for death to hold him. Okay. Well, there you
go. So it's literally impossible for Jesus to
stay dead. But other than that, how does one
sort of relate to the other? Bill? Well, that
sounds like an excellent theological question,
Justin. So you want to know why we need both
the crucifixion and the resurrection? Yeah. Well,
I mean, the thing about Jesus is he's bigger
than just kind of a leader with some good advice.
Yep. He is according to the scriptures sort of
the fulcrum or the centerpiece of all of reality
all of creation all of our lives who we are So
he is taking creation through a journey Okay
Through Friday to Sunday in the crucifixion.
We all know that because well, maybe we don't
know but Scripture teaches that we've got a problem
between ourselves and God and one another and
that is we have decided that we could be better
without God than with God and that set off a
whole chain of events in scripture that alienates
us from God and sets us in relations of hostility
with one another and that's called sin something
we talked about the last few weeks here at Trinity
and what God does right he could just smack us
and say, as God was tempted to do several times
in the Old Testament, the nation of Israel, this
is it, I'm done with you people. I've given you
the gift of life and grace and you've rejected
it and thought you could do it on your own. But
no, God doesn't do that. He says, I'm going to
actually stand in solidarity with the very people
that rebelled against me. I'm going to stand
in solidarity so much that I'm going to become
one of them. I'm going to become a human being.
And all of the consequences of living apart from
God, I mean, God is life itself. So to turn our
backs on God is to choose death over life. And
God says, you know what, I'm going to become
a human being and I'm going to traverse those
consequences for human beings. I'm going to go
through death. And as I go through death, I'm
going to transform it from being a threat to
being Oh, something that is powerless, that's
merely a gateway into life. So the crucifixion
is necessary because sort of the reality of sin,
the fact that we turned our backs on God, needs
to be dealt with. And the resurrection is the
word that says, you know what, those consequences
are not the end of the story. The point of all
of this was that I could have a relationship
with you, God says. And it's not just that God
snaps his fingers. and makes all of that happen.
He goes through that for us. He takes on our
cause, takes on our case, takes on our flesh.
And therefore, when God resurrects the Lord Jesus
on Sunday, it's like us being resurrected. That's
what Paul says several times in the letters.
Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection.
We were all sliding down this pit into death.
God takes up our cause in Christ. And therefore
when the tomb is empty and he rises to new life,
he's taking us with him the same way that he
took on our case in front of him. Yeah, he's
definitely taking us through a process. And one
of the devotions from this past week was reflecting
on Jesus said on the cross, it is finished. and
not, I am finished. Telling us that he's doing
something for us that we can't do for ourselves.
So he's taking us through that process. This
process is finished. put Jesus in place of us
to take us through that process. And at that
point in the cross, it wasn't him that was finished.
Right. He will finish that process on our behalf.
Right. Yeah. And actually the Greek word for
it is finished could also be translated like
it has now been perfected. Mm. Okay. That's cool.
Like the goal of our existence is God wants to
bring us to perfection. Okay. Not perfection,
like really, you know, flawless, but he wants
to bring us to full maturity. Right. Right. And
when Jesus completes that act, he says, now I
can bring humanity to its intended destination,
which is life and fellowship with God and with
one another. I mean, it's a powerful sort of
declaration. Something only Jesus could say.
Yeah. It's powerful, it's exciting, and it's
hopeful. Yes. Yes. But I don't think it necessarily,
at least for the disciples and those who were
first gathered there, doesn't feel necessarily
hopeful in the moment. Not in the moment. In
the moment. But us looking back, we can definitely
sort of see the hope that. And the hope starts
there. It starts there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean.
You realize it on Sunday. Yeah. As you were talking,
I was just like reflecting on the whole sort
of story of Christ, right? And like all of it
matters. Right? Like it, the incarnation from
the moment that Christ takes on flesh, like starts
a new thing. He's doing it for us. Yeah. He's
going through life for us and sort of, um, like
perfecting it, making it holy in every stage.
Yeah. Which is actually, sorry, I'm going to
be all theological now, but today, and this doesn't
always happen. The Greek Orthodox Easter, the
Orthodox Easter is the same day as the Roman
Catholic and the Western Easter. So we're all
celebrating together this particular year. But
one of the great things that Orthodox theology
says is that Jesus kind of goes through life
and in each moment sanctifies it, which is a
word that means makes holy or sets it apart.
So, you know, you think of your own life. It's
like Jesus goes through the awkward teenage years
and perfects it for you. And makes that holy
somehow? Yeah. He sort of makes it special and
heals it in every step. Yeah. Okay. To the uttermost,
ultimately, because he heals death. Right. Right.
It's not just the awkward teen moments. It's
not just the, you know, the first job and the
first time you're on your own and all of that.
Yeah. He goes through every stage to the point
of death and therefore he redeems all of human
life. And that's a really great contribution
of the Eastern Church. It's the ultimate ability
to relate. Yeah, I think when we're trying to
get to know someone, we want them to relate to
us or we want to relate to them. part of relationship,
part of community. But Jesus is that great example.
He was in that role. He knows what it's like.
He has been in that place and he can relate to
us. We can relate to him. For sure. Yeah. So
then if all of it matters, you know, from the
moment that Christ takes on flesh up until crucifixion
and the resurrection and so on, like what...
is particularly special about the resurrection,
right? Because the church calendar has all been
oriented around this particular day, right? Like
we worship on Sunday morning because Christ was
resurrected on Sunday. And every Sunday is supposed
to be a kind of mini resurrection day, right?
So what makes the resurrection particularly important?
Well, I mean, Jesus isn't, again, he's not just
going through death, he's defeating death. Right.
Right? And when Jesus comes back to life, it's
not like, it's not like Lazarus, you know the
story of Lazarus? Yeah. So, Lazarus is this guy
who died, and everyone's all sad about it, and
Jesus comes and raises him back to life. Right.
The difference between Lazarus and Jesus is Lazarus
died again. Right. Right? Yeah. He brought Lazarus
back to life to sort of give this sort of sign
of... what was to come. Jesus' resurrection is
different. He doesn't just come back to life
to sort of start the process of aging and dying
again. He comes back to life eternally. That's
why we say eternal life is a part of the Christian
faith. Right? So it's not just resetting the
clock. It's a whole new life. In fact, Paul says
whoever is in Christ is a new creation. Right.
And that's not just because, you know, we're
starting a fresh start. Right. It's like a where
the future is going becomes real in Jesus. And
that's what enables us to take advantage of all
the benefits of the blessings of God. We can
be called righteous because of that. So for example,
you know, when I look at my own life, I don't
feel particularly godly and righteous. I sin
every day. But because Jesus is resurrected,
we get all the benefits as if we were in heaven
right now, fully righteous and fully made holy.
So it's kind of like we get to experience the
happy ending of creation and human life ahead
of schedule. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And resurrection
is important because it's the center point of...
existence, right? The center point of our humanity.
It's like a fulcrum. Everything that happened
before all comes down into that one point of
resurrection. So all of human history, all of
creation, all of the Old Testament, all the stories,
all the promises, all of that just comes right
down into that point, right where the resurrection
happens. And then on the other side of that,
That's where new life comes. And from that point
of resurrection, right from that second, we become
a new creation. And the other side of it just
expands and grows. So the New Testament, the
new life, all the world that exists now, all
of us, are part of that resurrection life. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. It starts a whole new kind of
trajectory, right? It starts this whole new thing
where we can say, yeah, that the new life is
possible, that like, there is hope, even if we
don't always feel it in the moment, right? Like,
we know the end. That's why we have to have faith.
Yes. Right? It's not like, God's like, all right,
I'm going to make you all perfect right now.
Right. If, in fact, if I look at myself, I don't
feel very hopeful. Sure. Right. So the whole
point of scripture is look at Jesus. Like that's
where God's taken you. Right. God is taking you
to the kind of life Jesus has. Right. Fully resurrected,
glorified body in perfect fellowship with God
and humanity and creation. That's where you're
going. But you have to look at him. Yeah. Right.
For it to make sense. Because if you look at
yourself, you're going to feel, well, you know,
I'm still messing up every day. I feel like I'm
part of the old creation. That's why Christians
have faith. That's why we call people to have
faith. And that's the struggle. That's the hardest
part of Christianity, but it's also the greatest
hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why there's
renewal, right? We get bogged down by our own
experience, by our own sense of sin, our own
self. And then we can experience the renewal
of the resurrection again and grow and build
from there. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to go back
a little bit to that tension between Friday and
Sunday because I think The way that I think I
was sort of conditioned to think about it is
that like Friday is the day when like sin is
dealt with And then Sunday's just like the happy
after party. Kind of thing, right? Like sin is
dealt with, oh, and Jesus is alive and like super
powerful and cool. I mean, there was a bit more
theological language than that, but like to really
dumb it down. That sounds like the Marvel version
of Bible, right? Yeah, Jesus resurrects and then
lands on his knees with his hand and then looks
up in a cool way. Yeah, exactly. The superhero
pose that he lands on the ground. Yeah. But like,
so when I was reading First Corinthians earlier
this week, I was very godly of you. Oh, thank
you. Well, we were going to talk about resurrection
and Paul talks about resurrection and first Corinthians.
So I'm just saying I'm impressed. Okay. Okay,
great. Anyway, he talks about how if Christ is
not raised, then we're dead in our sins. Whereas
like, I don't, I just don't think I've made that
particular connection between like resurrection
and sin being dealt with. Can you like flesh
that out a little bit for me? Yeah, so so we
are sinners who sin. Yes. Right. So if if the
crucifixion was only it, Jesus died. And even
if he let's say he paid the price for our sins
or whatever, we die with it. OK, he's got to
find a way. That's a weird way to put it. But
God's got a. Find a way to deal with the sin
problem and save us Okay. Yeah, right. So So
a human being right who represents all human
beings. Yep dies bears the consequences of all
our sin Yep, but God doesn't just leave us there
right that right the whole point is to save us
To fix us to redeem us to sort of set us back
on the right track, right? So resurrections gotta
happen or Or the point of it. God doesn't just
want to get rid of sin. He wants us. Right? And
to get us, he's got to bring us through that
and give us a new kind of life. Sure. And again,
the cool thing is God's not just doing this from
like an external perspective, like snapping his
fingers and conducting an orchestra of redemption.
He's doing it himself. Right. Like he's standing
alongside us. Yeah. Going through that experience
of death and then coming out the other side.
He's picturing what we're gonna all go through.
Right. One day, which is, I mean, Paul does this,
this is one of the reasons why baptism is so
important, right? Paul says in Romans six, we
go down in baptism. Yeah. Under the waters. or
under the sprinkles. As the case might be. And
then we come out the other side on life. We're
sort of tracing, following Jesus' footsteps.
Jesus did it for us. And we take advantage of
that. Well, it's like you said at the beginning,
Justin, that we were created for a relationship
with God, and we were created in a right relationship
with God. We screwed that up. and it took the
process of the crucifixion and the resurrection
to make it possible for us to once again be in
a right relationship with God. I just I love
how Jesus or God in Christ does that himself.
Yeah. Or God's self. You know, it's not like
God's just throwing a bunch of band -aids at
us and fix your guys, fix yourselves up. Yeah.
Right. He takes on our cause. Yeah. I mean, nobody
does that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, nobody's got the
power to do that. Sure. Right. To have full solidarity.
We try to stand with those who are oppressed
and those who are suffering. Only God can actually
become the oppressed. Right. Become the sufferers,
become the sinners. Right. And then save us through
walking that distance. Yeah. Right. It's pretty
awesome. It's one of the unique things about
Christianity, I think. Yeah. And like. not something
that God has to do, right? God can do it, and
then God chooses to do it, right? And yeah, it's
just, it's wild. Christianity is quite good.
Yes, there we go. We'll just end there. Christianity
is quite good. Rather good, even. Yeah, okay,
great. So I want us to then think about why does
all of this matter today? Like right now when
I was talking to you earlier this morning You
said we're gonna get together today and like
celebrate the resurrection and be like all hype
about this But then we're gonna like go back
out into a world that still kind of sucks. Sometimes
You didn't say it exactly like that, but that's
my paraphrase again Yeah, so Why does the resurrection
matter if we're still living in a world that
kind of sucks? I think it gives us hope I think
if Jesus is alive, then that means that all the
promises are true. If Jesus is alive, that means
that his ministry and what he taught us in that
ministry is true and is right. Hope and mercy
and love. And all those things that we learned
from him during that time, if he is alive, that's
true. And we can lean on those things. It gives
us hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, Kyle,
you and I were chatting earlier and I was I was
driving here quite early because I'm in the worship
band. So I had to get here at, ironically, an
hour. Thank you, by the way. I'm very impressed.
Yeah, very early So yeah, so I'm like, all right,
I gotta get in the right frame of mind I knew
I'm doing this podcast thing. So I gotta be extra
special godly So I'm like cranking Easter songs
and trying to be like, yeah, this is great And
yeah, then you get here and people are like woohoo
and yeah, there's flags in the back and yeah,
and I'm like, well Nothing really has changed
Right. Like, you know, I don't want to get too
political here, but here we go. Like, our world
is like a mess. Yes. In a lot of ways right now.
I don't think that's political. That's just true.
I'm very stressed and scared about it all the
time. And the fact that it happens to be Easter
Sunday today doesn't change that in a certain
way. Yeah. And we're supposed to be Ra Ra Sis
Boomba at church. Yes. And I thought, oh, you
know, are we kind of being Pollyanna -ish here
and trying to be positive? I thought, no, actually,
this is the substance of Christianity, right?
The whole point is Jesus was resurrected. He's
inaugurated or started this new world, this new
creation, ahead of schedule, right? It's a happy
ending ahead of schedule. And that's why we have
to have faith, like the thing that's going to
get us through all the rottenness of this world.
is looking at Jesus and being like, okay, it's
very bad now, but I know the end of the story
because the end of the story isn't just something
we're waiting for. It's something that's real
in Jesus. So no matter how bad things get, it's
not the final word. I've seen the final word
because I've seen Jesus Christ. Jesus is resurrected.
And that's the end. But it's hard because you
have to be like, You know, that Jesus is more
real than the sin and pain and war and violence
in the world. It takes faith to believe that.
Yeah, Jesus is more real than the things I am
really feeling right now. Yeah, because he's
shown that all those things are pre -Easter Sunday.
Mm -hmm. Right? All the evil in the world, that's
Holy Saturday, that's Good Friday. Yeah. You
know, I mean, this is just a little roundabout
way of saying what that famous sermon says. It's
Friday, but Sunday's coming. I was just thinking
that myself. Yeah. Yeah. I can't say it in the
cool way that the original preacher said it,
but it's true. Or even how Tony Campallo said
it. Yeah. We stole it from the other guy. So
if that's all true, that, you know, we're headed
towards, we know the ending. How does that change
how we live in this moment? Does it change what
we do? It changes. our perspective, I guess is
what we've said, but does it change how we live
our lives? Like Rob said in the sermon this morning,
we talked about the long weekend of Easter, right?
And so, and days of pain and days of doubt and
days of joy. And as he's talking about joy and
he's saying, you know, things are new in every
morning. Things like, you know, your relationships
are redeemed. Your, you know, your career is
saved. You know, all these things that on Easter
Sunday, is possible. But he also said that we're
still living life. I was going to say the S word,
crap happens. Stuff still happens. And we have
to deal with that. So it's still cyclical. of
the redemption of Christ's sacrifice in our lives.
We have experienced Easter for ourselves in a
new life in Christ, but we still have the crappy
days of pain. And we still have the crappy days
of doubt. And so it's cyclical that way. And
that's why it's so great that we are here in
community where when you have your crappy day
of pain, I can share that with you and we can
get through it together. When you have your crappy
day of doubt, I can share that with you and you
can share that with me and we can get through
it together. And same thing when it happens to
me, right? So together. We are it can't experience
the the hope that that Christ offers through
his yeah, man through his resurrection. That's
another Awesome point is that the resurrection
creates the church? Yeah, the church starts well
I won't get into that question, but the resurrection
is very important moment in the birth of the
church Because it's not just Jesus comes to life
and then allows us as individuals to sort of
take part in those blessings. He stitches us
together into a community so that we can now
be what Christ was for us to one another. So
all that stuff I was saying before about solidarity
and standing with us, like we couldn't do that.
But in Christ, we can now. When you're having
a bad day, I can sort of be Jesus to you. It's
not because I'm a great person, it's because
I've been stitched into the life of Christ. and
now we can be Christ to one another. That's basically
what the church is. It's the way that Christ
is ministering to us now in the world is through
one another in the church. Preach on, brother.
Right. Yeah. And I think like my particular heart
and passion is such that like We I think about
that's what the church is in its like local context,
but also in its global context, right? That like
your Baptist is showing, right? But like that's
We get to do that for each other as you just
sort of said but also like we get to do that
Yeah for the local church across the world. Yes,
that's right. Yeah, so like if there's folks
Yeah, I mean we prayed for the persecuted church
earlier. Yeah, which is one way we stand with
them in solidarity We pray for them we speak
for them. We advocate for them. Yeah But again,
it's not just, what's the word from Ecclesiastes?
It's not just a vanity of vanities chasing after
the wind. In Christ, it gets made real, right?
We actually do participate with them. We actually
can petition the Father to be with them because
Christ has made us one with them in him. So it's
not just empty words. And likewise, when we're
having trouble, you know, after the states invades
Canada and we're in trouble, then we'll, we'll
want the rest of the world to pray for us, right?
You know what I mean? Like when, when Christians
suffer and actually, and then we expand that
to the rest of the world, right? We can stand
in solidarity with people who aren't Christians,
right? Cause God loves them as well, but we can
speak Christ to them and stand for them as well.
But that's all because of the resurrection. Otherwise
it's just what? some ideological movement or
something sure this is real yeah i don't know
i feel like every time i sit down and like think
more about jesus i'm more and more realizing
like how small my previous version of jesus was
and i'm just like whoa it does this and this
and that and yeah it's mind -blowing go study
theology folks it's pretty cool uh yeah that
It's so helpful. We're watching someone have
an epiphany right now. This is awesome. Her heart
just grew three sizes bigger. Right. Yeah. No,
thank you both. This has been a really hopeful
and helpful conversation. And I think really
put some like meat onto what we're doing as we
celebrate Easter. Yeah. So in conclusion, Easter
is about bunny rabbits and chocolate. Of course.
I got the chocolate right here. Yes, that's right.
There's your chocolate. Baby, here's your chocolate.
Thank you. Here's my chocolate. I hope you also
enjoy some chocolate this Easter, but also Jesus.
Yeah, and we will see you again next week. Happy
Easter.