WEBVTT 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:07.379 Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.400 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana. 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.859 And I'm Bill. And we are here for the last time 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.140 to wrap up our series about the seven deadly 00:00:17.140 --> 00:00:20.980 sins. And we are going to be talking about the 00:00:20.980 --> 00:00:23.579 last sin, or at least the last in our particular 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:25.519 list. I don't know if they're really ranked in 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:28.519 any kind of way. But the last one on our list 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:32.799 is gluttony. So let's start by just talking about 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.229 what is... Gluttony. I think when we think about 00:00:36.229 --> 00:00:38.590 it sort of commonly, we think about it as, you 00:00:38.590 --> 00:00:42.369 know, excessive eating. And I think that's definitely 00:00:42.369 --> 00:00:44.950 part of it. But are there other things that sort 00:00:44.950 --> 00:00:49.950 of fall within what gluttony is? Yeah. I mean, 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:53.409 I was thinking more of an excessive obsession 00:00:53.409 --> 00:00:57.810 with food. Okay. Right. And that can take various 00:00:57.810 --> 00:01:01.189 forms. Sure. A sort of unhealthy way in which 00:01:01.189 --> 00:01:05.340 food ends up being the place for your ultimate 00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:10.400 satisfaction or for your fulfilling of more than 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:16.379 nourishing and needs. So yeah, I would say that 00:01:16.379 --> 00:01:20.099 it can manifest in very different ways, not necessarily 00:01:20.099 --> 00:01:27.359 only excessiveness. Well, I'd like to say that 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.260 I did an extensive word study and I kind of dived 00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:35.939 into the etymology of the word gluttony and looked 00:01:35.939 --> 00:01:39.980 at the roots in the Greek and the Hebrew and 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:42.299 just kind of dug into that and stuff, but I just 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:44.680 did a Google search. Okay. And what does the 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:46.780 Almighty Google have to say about that? And the 00:01:46.780 --> 00:01:49.400 Google search, the definition as it relates to 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.459 the seven deadly sins is... excessive indulgence 00:01:52.459 --> 00:01:55.359 and overconsumption of anything to the point 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.120 of waste, particularly food and drink. I think 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:04.540 there's a bunch to unpack there. It's an indulgence, 00:02:04.579 --> 00:02:07.819 of course, but it's an overindulgence or an excessive 00:02:07.819 --> 00:02:12.259 indulgence and a consumption. I think we've talked 00:02:12.259 --> 00:02:16.280 about that. But it says of anything. It's an 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.819 overindulgence or overconsumption of anything. 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:25.080 It does say particularly food or drink, but generally 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:27.840 it can be anything. I mean, we could talk about 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:32.479 a gluttony or a gluttonous attitude over social 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:35.599 media or something like that, right? But it does 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:37.939 say particularly food or drink. And then the 00:02:37.939 --> 00:02:40.560 next line, it says, it's considered a sin when 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:43.159 it leads to a lack of control over one's relation 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:47.449 with food or causes harm to the body. Um, and 00:02:47.449 --> 00:02:50.449 I think that is two more key points, right? Where 00:02:50.449 --> 00:02:53.469 it says, where it's, it's about a lack of control. 00:02:53.710 --> 00:02:56.289 And I think for me, that's, that really kind 00:02:56.289 --> 00:02:58.210 of strikes home. That's, that's a, that's an 00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:00.669 important thing to me is kind of having, having 00:03:00.669 --> 00:03:03.990 control over myself. And so anything that causes 00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:07.990 a lack of control is concerning. Uh, and then 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.949 it's, uh, and then it's also about harm. Um, 00:03:11.129 --> 00:03:13.210 so when we think about that, like what, how does, 00:03:13.389 --> 00:03:15.389 you know, what does, how does gluttony relate 00:03:15.389 --> 00:03:19.729 to harming ourself or harming others. So that's 00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:20.509 an interesting thing to think about as well. 00:03:20.550 --> 00:03:23.710 Yeah, and to think about harming others as well, 00:03:23.810 --> 00:03:26.030 I think that's an interesting dynamic to sort 00:03:26.030 --> 00:03:28.370 of pull into it, right? Because we think of, 00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:30.409 at least I think of gluttony as a very sort of 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:36.389 personal thing. Yeah, and so it all sort of revolves 00:03:36.389 --> 00:03:40.750 around this relationship with food, right? And 00:03:40.750 --> 00:03:43.389 so I think maybe for us to really fully understand 00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:46.810 what Gluttony is maybe we need to understand 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:50.590 like what our relationship to food is Right. 00:03:50.650 --> 00:03:54.370 So if you were to think about Maybe the opposite 00:03:54.370 --> 00:03:57.310 of gluttony or like what what a healthy relationship 00:03:57.310 --> 00:04:01.289 with food looks like like what what is that? 00:04:02.930 --> 00:04:09.139 Beats me I think there is information there on 00:04:09.139 --> 00:04:12.879 that, right? We know of cultures that have healthier 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:14.699 relationships with food. They're eating real 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.680 food. They're eating it in community. What do 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.879 you mean by real food? So food that is not necessarily 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:24.230 full of synthetic. Okay, right so like like whole 00:04:24.230 --> 00:04:28.589 or things that are grown locally necessary Sometimes 00:04:28.589 --> 00:04:31.069 but even if if it's coming from elsewhere We're 00:04:31.069 --> 00:04:32.949 talking about something that is closer to where 00:04:32.949 --> 00:04:35.430 it has or how it's been grown as opposed to where 00:04:35.430 --> 00:04:38.990 you've got a range of stabilizing Synthetic chemicals 00:04:38.990 --> 00:04:42.829 put there now those can have benefits right in 00:04:42.829 --> 00:04:45.550 different ways but in general what you've got 00:04:45.550 --> 00:04:49.350 food is food that is very often prepared, more 00:04:49.350 --> 00:04:54.949 intentionally eaten within a community. Because 00:04:54.949 --> 00:04:58.470 it's eaten in a community, it's regulated inherently, 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:00.649 right? Because it means that you're waiting for 00:05:00.649 --> 00:05:02.170 people to come together when you eat. You're 00:05:02.170 --> 00:05:04.589 not simply going off by yourself and gorging 00:05:04.589 --> 00:05:07.709 or something like that. And so you've got a lot 00:05:07.709 --> 00:05:10.990 of cultures that actually do, I think, have rhythms 00:05:10.990 --> 00:05:16.100 of preparing, eating. and then eating in community 00:05:16.100 --> 00:05:20.319 that allow for inherently less consumption, slower 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:25.720 consumption, healthier eating. And so we can 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.779 look at those as ingredients in what it might 00:05:29.779 --> 00:05:38.279 be to eat more healthily. And within a Christian 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:40.399 framework too, we recognize food is good, right? 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.579 It's a gift. It was in the garden. Eat off the 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:45.220 trees in the garden, right? I mean, we focus 00:05:45.220 --> 00:05:48.740 on the one tree that was prohibited, but every 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:51.279 other tree was available to eat. Eat anything 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.199 you want over here. And so it's a good gift that 00:05:55.199 --> 00:06:00.490 you can receive and enjoy with people. and be 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:03.889 a place for creativity and so much that is good. 00:06:04.310 --> 00:06:07.089 And it can go out of whack, right? I think for 00:06:07.089 --> 00:06:09.730 my family, the transition to healthy eating involved 00:06:09.730 --> 00:06:16.589 more kind of moving from food in a box. to fruits 00:06:16.589 --> 00:06:19.089 and vegetables and actual ingredients that go 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:22.589 into making a meal. As opposed to buying a meal 00:06:22.589 --> 00:06:26.529 in a box, you're buying the things that you prepare 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:31.629 to make the meal. And often, I think most often, 00:06:31.889 --> 00:06:36.370 that's healthier eating than buying products. 00:06:37.110 --> 00:06:40.470 I think I was told, it was probably Natalie that 00:06:40.470 --> 00:06:44.149 told me this a while ago, but it was just, buy 00:06:44.149 --> 00:06:45.889 most of your stuff at the grocery store along 00:06:45.889 --> 00:06:48.709 the outside wall of the grocery store. Shop along 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:50.689 the edges. Yeah, shop along the edges. Yeah, 00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:52.610 that's exactly. And don't go down the aisles. 00:06:52.689 --> 00:06:55.709 The aisles are bad. Just shop along the edges. 00:06:55.730 --> 00:06:58.910 And that's more of where the kind of the healthier 00:06:58.910 --> 00:07:02.110 food items are. You know, fruits and vegetables 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:04.670 and meat and stuff. Yeah. So we're talking about 00:07:04.670 --> 00:07:06.490 a healthy relationship with food in terms of 00:07:06.490 --> 00:07:09.470 like healthy foods. But I think it also extends 00:07:09.470 --> 00:07:12.670 a bit further. Right? Like when I think about 00:07:13.209 --> 00:07:16.870 So I grew up in a rural area where there was 00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:20.209 like lots of farming and things like that I don't 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:24.089 think we ever in my life bought apples from the 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:26.629 grocery store because there was someone in my 00:07:26.629 --> 00:07:29.490 church who like had an apple orchard and just 00:07:29.490 --> 00:07:32.389 like gave Apples to everybody in the church, 00:07:32.829 --> 00:07:35.089 right? And so we knew exactly where those apples 00:07:35.089 --> 00:07:37.329 came from Yes, right and I can think of the same 00:07:37.329 --> 00:07:39.350 thing like every summer we went and picked our 00:07:39.350 --> 00:07:41.470 own strawberries and blueberries and things like 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:44.379 that, right and then You know, my mom would make 00:07:44.379 --> 00:07:47.160 jam. So, like, the first time that I had jam 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.540 that was, like, not homemade, I was like, this 00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:51.839 is just too sweet. It's just not good. Right, 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:56.040 right, right. So, just all, like, it's the food 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:57.980 that we eat, but it's also, like, the connections 00:07:57.980 --> 00:08:01.720 to the land, to the people, like, all of those 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.709 things, I think, also. help constitute a healthy 00:08:04.709 --> 00:08:06.870 relationship to food because it has a story. 00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:09.870 Yeah, I mean, I was just reflecting on growing 00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:12.970 up in India, right? I mean, I grew up in Mumbai 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:16.730 and we didn't snack. Like at the time, it wasn't 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:19.389 a snacking culture. So we would have breakfast 00:08:19.389 --> 00:08:21.430 in the morning, go off, like I'd be off to school. 00:08:21.610 --> 00:08:23.529 I would have my lunch packed. I'd have that, 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.350 come back, have, you know, play a bit and go. 00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:30.509 There was dinner, but there wasn't any snacking 00:08:30.509 --> 00:08:35.340 in between. that was partly just how you did 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:37.679 things. Even dessert, it's not really a huge 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:40.980 dessert culture. So dessert was only for feasts. 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:44.220 So we didn't even have dessert every day. Chocolate 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:46.940 was only on special occasions, was super expensive. 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:51.740 And cookies, it's not a cookie culture. And so 00:08:51.740 --> 00:08:55.580 cake was only for birthdays. And so you inherently 00:08:55.580 --> 00:09:00.580 just ate less, ate nourishing food. and ate at 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:04.120 specific times. And so, yeah, there was just 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:06.440 not like a pantry in the way I have right now 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.500 with a few snacks there for me to snack at other 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:12.240 times. It just wasn't there. Whereas all of that, 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.500 I think crept into my life once we came to Canada, 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.779 right? Because it's everywhere all the time. 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:20.899 So to think about North American culture, you 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:25.360 know, you've lost that connection. to food, where 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.059 that's part of a holistic, healthy understanding 00:09:28.059 --> 00:09:30.240 of food and where it comes from and all that 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.820 kind of stuff. And we've also kind of misplaced 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:38.940 where food is in our life. I think for a lot 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:44.029 of us, where food is... We're trying to make 00:09:44.029 --> 00:09:46.549 ourselves feel better as opposed to nurturing 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:53.769 our bodies. We're trying to kind of feed emotionally. 00:09:54.009 --> 00:09:58.230 We're trying to kind of fill that hole with food 00:09:58.230 --> 00:10:02.429 as well, which is not healthy. Yeah, for sure. 00:10:04.539 --> 00:10:08.039 A healthy vision for food is, yeah, healthy foods, 00:10:08.299 --> 00:10:12.139 a connection to land, a sense of moderation of 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:14.639 some kind. Yeah, moderation, community with other 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:19.679 people. Yeah, so then, as Bill started to take 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:23.740 us into, how does an unhealthy relationship with 00:10:23.740 --> 00:10:26.120 food show up in our culture today? And maybe 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.360 we can draw some connections there to gluttony, 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:31.200 if we understand gluttony in a holistic sense 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:34.340 of an unhealthy relationship to food. Yeah, so 00:10:34.340 --> 00:10:37.480 you've already said, you know, like the boxed 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:39.440 food and and yeah, I think there is something 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:42.659 to that. The like convenience of like whether 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:44.820 it's, you know, fast food in a sense of like 00:10:44.820 --> 00:10:46.460 going out to a restaurant for fast food or even 00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:48.919 like fast food, like here's a frozen meal that 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:51.820 will take you two minutes to eat up. Right. Like 00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:54.779 that, I think, destroys some of that connection. 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.279 Yeah, it destroys so many connections. It destroys 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:00.220 because you don't know where it comes from. It 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:02.580 doesn't. You don't know how it's processed. Yeah. 00:11:03.470 --> 00:11:06.330 that isn't the sort of intentionality that comes 00:11:06.330 --> 00:11:08.509 from preparing food. And I say this not as if 00:11:08.509 --> 00:11:10.269 I've got it all figured out. Like I struggle, 00:11:10.389 --> 00:11:13.990 you know, and so many pressures I think we have 00:11:13.990 --> 00:11:17.110 here in North America that make it hard to have 00:11:17.110 --> 00:11:19.570 a healthy sort of let's sit down and eat and 00:11:19.570 --> 00:11:22.830 connect in family each day, right? I mean, I 00:11:22.830 --> 00:11:25.389 come home from work, I'm tired. Like it's easy 00:11:25.389 --> 00:11:27.710 to reach for something that's already prepared 00:11:27.710 --> 00:11:30.059 if I haven't been intentional about. cooking 00:11:30.059 --> 00:11:32.740 the day before or two days before, right? Stuff 00:11:32.740 --> 00:11:35.679 like that where you're consistently having to 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.399 prepare. But yeah, I think, you know, so the 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.480 industrialization of food, as we talked about, 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.679 destroys that connection. The ways in which when 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:47.299 industrialization happens, so many of the foods 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:50.299 we prepare or are prepared are empty calories, 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.700 right? So what it actually does is fuel then. 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.279 like because you've eaten things that are not 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:59.080 necessarily nourishing, your body needs it and 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.700 you feel hungry more often. Right. And so it, 00:12:01.700 --> 00:12:04.019 you know, so it's not, it's like a lot of ways 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:08.700 in which our cultures, the way it creates food 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:13.360 products can feed, it can make it more difficult 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.240 for people to actually then have a healthier 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.620 relationship with food, right? So it's our pressures 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:21.950 on our time. you know not having time but also 00:12:21.950 --> 00:12:24.009 the fact that even if we do go buy food some 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:27.269 of that isn't really good and then it can fuel 00:12:27.269 --> 00:12:33.529 right urges and it fuels a hunger that then like 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:36.009 more naturally leads to overconsumption because 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:38.169 the things that we consumed are not nourishing 00:12:38.169 --> 00:12:41.149 that's right yeah yeah yeah so that's when you're 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:43.269 just talking about food itself that's just the 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:44.549 food bar when you're talking about when you're 00:12:44.549 --> 00:12:46.909 talking about people that are eating food in 00:12:46.909 --> 00:12:50.629 place of or while they're hungering for something. 00:12:51.170 --> 00:12:52.970 That's not food. They're hungry for something 00:12:52.970 --> 00:12:58.190 else. So not only is the food, the quality of 00:12:58.190 --> 00:13:00.470 the food that we're eating not nourishing our 00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:03.450 bodies in a physical sense, but we're grabbing 00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:08.190 for that food to try and trying to fill a different 00:13:08.190 --> 00:13:11.929 hunger that food can't fill either. So I mean, 00:13:11.929 --> 00:13:15.730 there's just a lot of want that's left at the 00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:17.830 end of that equation. Yeah. So in the Sermon 00:13:17.830 --> 00:13:20.710 of Oat Gluttony, Rob made this sort of joke about 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:25.450 the the cardiogastric canal, which is like, you 00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:27.970 know, this connection between our stomach and 00:13:27.970 --> 00:13:30.830 our heart, that when we're feeling a longing 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:35.049 for something else, for God, for connection, 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:37.429 like when we're feeling lonely or feeling stressed, 00:13:38.049 --> 00:13:41.009 even though those aren't like physical hunger 00:13:41.009 --> 00:13:44.049 pains, we try to fill that with food. We reach 00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:47.070 to soothe with food, essentially. Yeah, exactly. 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.179 The other thing that I think about in terms of, 00:13:53.179 --> 00:13:55.299 you know, Western culture's relationship to food 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.519 is, you know, back to at the beginning, you said 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.220 that, you know, gluttony is about harming ourselves, 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.360 but also harming other people, right? And so 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.000 there's this connection to them, like food waste 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.340 and overindulgence in a world where other people 00:14:09.340 --> 00:14:13.210 don't have enough food. Right? So yeah, can you 00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:16.190 just reflect on like what that looks like? That's 00:14:16.190 --> 00:14:18.950 an important part of this discussion for me because 00:14:18.950 --> 00:14:22.389 kind of my background, my work background is 00:14:22.389 --> 00:14:26.590 working with people that are hungry and that 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:29.450 go without working with homeless populations 00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:34.889 and underprivileged populations. And that's a 00:14:34.889 --> 00:14:40.629 real issue with having enough food for themselves 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:44.879 and for their families. And when I see other 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:49.019 people in our culture, in our community that 00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:53.379 have enough, that have excess, that waste food, 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.120 and it just doesn't seem to be that care and 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.799 concern for the community overall. I see that 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.620 as a... Literally, it's a bit as a waste as a 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:06.659 I mean, that's a that's a tragedy It just it 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:09.960 just kind of gets gets gets my blood burning 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.299 a little bit right that the I know anger was 00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:15.559 last week But but it's just we're you know, it 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:19.559 that it's there's an injustice there that that 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.340 is that is solidly around around food and and 00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:27.799 making and you know, some of us kind of not caring, 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:31.200 you know, just you know not realizing Maybe that, 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.039 you know, that they're that everyone doesn't 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.000 have what we have. Right. And there's some people 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:41.580 that go without. And the reality is, if we if 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:44.480 we shared, everyone would have enough. But but 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.659 we don't. But that's part of the problem is that 00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:49.899 we don't have that same. sense of community, 00:15:50.179 --> 00:15:54.080 that sense of other, to be able to kind of understand 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.340 how we can, instead of being part of the problem, 00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:59.840 we can be part of the solution. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:04.080 for sure, for sure. Yeah, which is why then I 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:10.159 think about eating together. is such an important 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.720 like move to sort of counteract that, right? 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:15.740 Because it is, it's inviting people into this 00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:18.220 table of stuff that I have, like quite literally, 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.580 right? And saying, okay, there is enough. Like 00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:23.960 I can invite more people into this. I don't need 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.360 to like hold on. Yeah, when I was working at 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:33.080 the dam years ago, we would do weekly family 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.179 meals or community dinners with the youth that 00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:39.759 were coming to the drop -in. And there would 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:43.279 be 15 or 20 of us, some staff, volunteers, and 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:48.120 youth. And we'd make the meal together, and we 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.519 would sit down and eat the meal together. And 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.539 I was just amazed when we were sitting down talking 00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:57.720 while we're eating, and youth would be reflecting, 00:16:57.940 --> 00:17:00.440 like, this is so nice. We should do this. I should 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.860 do this at home with my family. And I'm like, 00:17:03.940 --> 00:17:08.599 you don't? No, no, we've never sat down like 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.890 this as if as if like never I'm like, how is 00:17:11.890 --> 00:17:14.970 that possible? Oh yeah, when I go home, I just 00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:16.890 grab something and I sit in front of the TV or 00:17:16.890 --> 00:17:20.450 go to my room and my dad doesn't come home until 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:22.990 late or whatever. There's all sorts of stories, 00:17:23.089 --> 00:17:26.529 right? But the thing is that that family meal, 00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:30.009 which I guess at some point was a much more common 00:17:30.009 --> 00:17:34.569 thing for everyone to come together. And again, 00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:38.430 it's not just about the food and sharing a meal 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:42.440 or even it together, which is also great. But 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:47.980 the time that you have together to talk about 00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:50.819 your day and to find out what's going on and 00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:53.079 to chat and catch up and all that kind of stuff, 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.400 there's so many families that are missing out 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:01.759 on all of that. And to the detriment of each 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.480 and every family and the detriment of our community 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:10.079 and probably our culture. Yeah, for sure. In 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:12.380 light of all of that, in light of this sort of 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:15.420 good, healthy relationship to food and this other 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.000 sort of relationship that has all of these tensions, 00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:23.140 gluttony, we talk about it as a sin, which means 00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:26.839 that we presume that there's some spiritual impact 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.859 in all of this as well. So what is the spiritual 00:18:29.859 --> 00:18:32.720 impact of gluttony and is it different somehow 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.599 than just the disconnection and the overeating? 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.799 Yeah, I think just given where our conversation 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:46.259 has been, I would say it's the space where food 00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:57.000 is not appreciated as the gift and as the place 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:01.700 of communion that it is. So that can happen by 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:05.160 grabbing too much, right? Where it's just all 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.750 for me. not this good thing you receive with 00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:12.690 others. And at the same time, it can manifest 00:19:12.690 --> 00:19:14.869 in so many different, like not caring enough, 00:19:15.170 --> 00:19:21.049 even, not being intentional about eating. And 00:19:21.049 --> 00:19:25.430 so it can also manifest in damaging ways on the 00:19:25.430 --> 00:19:27.329 other side, where you just don't care, where 00:19:27.329 --> 00:19:30.690 you're not, as you said, Bill, people are not 00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.049 necessarily getting together anymore to eat together. 00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:37.190 where food before if somebody was preparing it 00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:40.569 and people were eating together, you have that 00:19:40.569 --> 00:19:43.190 connection. Now that's just let go. It's not 00:19:43.190 --> 00:19:46.650 even recognized. And so I think Latine can be 00:19:46.650 --> 00:19:49.869 this odd space where you can have too much or 00:19:49.869 --> 00:19:52.390 too little. You can go into cycles of too much 00:19:52.390 --> 00:19:55.569 and too little. And you just end up having this 00:19:55.569 --> 00:19:59.009 really unhealthy space where you're willing to 00:19:59.009 --> 00:20:03.990 sacrifice or not put attention to those elements 00:20:03.990 --> 00:20:10.099 of of its goodness and its opportunity for connection 00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:14.779 that is sort of built into what it might be when 00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:20.039 it's eaten well, right? Or taken in well. That's 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:21.460 sort of where I would say that spiritual dimension 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:23.279 is you're willing to sacrifice really important 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:29.759 things for shallower or reductive view of just 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:34.500 consumption. And sort of recognizing like, It's 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.980 hard to figure out how to put food in its proper 00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:39.720 place. Because you don't want food to be way 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.660 up here. We're like, it's food and God. But you 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:47.680 also don't want food to be just a tool. If we're 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.000 overeating or if we're eating for emotional reasons 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.759 or other fulfillment reasons, then food becomes 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.160 a tool to comfort. Or if we're looking at diet 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:01.440 culture, food becomes a tool to shape our bodies 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:04.890 in a particular way. And we don't want that, 00:21:05.150 --> 00:21:07.170 right? So we need to sort of put food back in 00:21:07.170 --> 00:21:10.329 its proper place, somewhere in the middle there, 00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:16.180 where it is a good gift from a good God. It's 00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:20.160 not God. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think food is 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.740 a, there is a spiritual component to food. And 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:24.920 I think that's kind of why gluttony is included 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:29.240 in the seven deadly sins, like you said. I think 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:31.859 it's a, and what Rob said in the sermon about, 00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:35.099 or making that connection between our heart and 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:39.839 our stomach, I think is really important. Reflecting 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:43.279 on that because I think a lot of the misplaced 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:47.220 desire around food comes from us thinking that 00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:49.559 when we're hungry, it's our stomach talking to 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.299 us and not our heart talking to us. And I think 00:21:53.299 --> 00:21:57.839 this goes back to I think the first podcast that 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.140 we did together on the first Deadly Send when 00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:04.700 we were talking about. the believing as one of 00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:07.000 the building blocks of growing up well, right? 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.799 Just saying that God has created us to believe. 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.640 That's a built -in thing. So we have a desire 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:23.019 to believe in something. And so we choose to 00:22:23.019 --> 00:22:29.509 believe in a lot of things. Or have that... something 00:22:29.509 --> 00:22:32.250 take that place of belief. And in some cases, 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:38.660 you know, people worship food. And it's too something, 00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:43.960 it's too much, it's too fancy. Like Guru Ram 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:48.660 was saying, people are too picky, right? But 00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:51.920 like you said, they place food in an inappropriate 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.839 place in between them and God, where food becomes 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.680 their idol, becomes their God. And so God did 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.440 create us to believe, but he created us to believe 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.759 in him. So we said way back in that first session, 00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:09.259 we said that that hole in our heart, not our 00:23:09.259 --> 00:23:12.240 stomach, but that hole in our heart is a God 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.240 -shaped hole. And when we try to fill it with 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.160 food and with drink in this gluttonous kind of 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.720 way, it's never going to fully satisfy, right? 00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:29.339 And the only satisfaction... Satisfaction? Satisfaction, 00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:32.099 thank you. The only satisfaction that we will 00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:36.680 find is if we put God in that God -shaped hole. 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.900 And the food has a place, right? I think there's 00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:44.319 nothing wrong with enjoying food and certainly 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.779 enjoying food in community with family or in 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.559 groups and stuff, but it can't take the place 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:55.720 of God. as you were talking there, I was reflecting 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.759 on, in scripture, Jesus is called like a glutton 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:01.079 and a drunkard. Jesus like went out and partied. 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.099 Jesus like had meals with people. It's like, 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:07.059 obviously food is good. Food is, I think an important 00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:09.700 part of the kingdom of God. It is. In its proper 00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:11.920 place. Yeah. Right. And sometimes that includes 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.599 feasting and sometimes that includes, you know, 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.680 extravagant fancy food, but it's also includes 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.660 the everyday. It also includes the Some of the 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:25.380 analogies of heaven is a banquet, is a feast. 00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:29.380 It is, yeah. I mean, that's good times, right? 00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:32.519 Yeah, sounds good to me. But it does feel right, 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:35.650 like when you think about the fact that... Feasting 00:24:35.650 --> 00:24:38.549 is, you know, Jesus is feasting with people. 00:24:38.829 --> 00:24:41.670 And he's receiving their hospitality and creating 00:24:41.670 --> 00:24:44.809 connections. Or there are times of feasting, 00:24:44.809 --> 00:24:47.390 right, that are quite distinct from every day 00:24:47.390 --> 00:24:50.769 or distinct from times of fasting as well. Whereas 00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.589 I think we do live in a culture which thinks 00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:56.670 that every day should be a day of feast, right? 00:24:56.730 --> 00:24:58.750 And so I think that's where the excess sometimes 00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:01.230 comes in. Every day you've got to eat well. Every 00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:04.759 day you have... the right to have a feast, right? 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.420 And that sense of the simplicity and nourishment 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:09.940 of the everyday with the feast being the space 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:13.200 of beauty and connection. Those kinds of rhythms 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.180 are totally lost, I think, in our culture. And 00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:18.220 it isn't just excessiveness, like I'm thinking 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:20.480 of food channels, right? There's like... you 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.460 know, banquets every day on there. I cannot try 00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:26.759 and think like you need to cook like that all 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.980 the time. Right. Right. If anyway, so I was just 00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:33.720 people joke about food porn, right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:37.279 There's that lust for food and good food and 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.220 delicious food and you know, feasting food that 00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:41.500 is totally excessive. And you think about, you 00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:45.420 know, if you stop and reflect that is so, so 00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:49.069 different from even the West about 50, 60 years 00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:52.109 ago, maybe when things began to change. So we've 00:25:52.109 --> 00:25:57.430 just got a whole culture of pressure to eat in 00:25:57.430 --> 00:26:00.009 unhealthy ways, I think, and not intentional, 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:04.410 not communal, but consistently holding up, you 00:26:04.410 --> 00:26:07.569 know, food as a kind of God, as you said, build 00:26:07.569 --> 00:26:12.990 an idol. Yeah. So in light of all of that, all 00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.470 of the ways that we are tempted to have an unhealthy 00:26:15.470 --> 00:26:17.849 relationship with food, what are some sort of 00:26:17.849 --> 00:26:21.089 practical steps or tips that we might sort of 00:26:21.089 --> 00:26:25.650 try to practice to redirect our relationship 00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:28.609 with food, to reorient it a bit. So you were 00:26:28.609 --> 00:26:32.549 just talking about feasting and how feasting 00:26:32.549 --> 00:26:35.849 is good in moments, but it shouldn't be our everyday. 00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:38.430 It's not our everyday. Right? And so that makes 00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:40.230 me then think of like the opposite of feasting, 00:26:40.289 --> 00:26:45.019 which is fasting. Yeah. And I think fasting in 00:26:45.019 --> 00:26:47.880 Western culture right now, fasting often shows 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.740 up as like a diet trend. Yes. As like or like 00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:53.519 intermittent fasting or just like different things, 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.140 which I'm not saying that's bad. Like that that 00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:59.839 has its place. But I think fasting for a spiritual 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.779 purpose and for with the mindset of like, OK, 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.420 we're going to reorient our relationship to food 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:09.619 in this moment. Right. And and take the focus. 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:14.299 off of food. Absolutely. And off of body image. 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.359 Yes. And reorient it to like, I'm fasting because 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.839 I want to like put God in God's place and put 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.240 food in food's place. That's the reason why you 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:26.960 should fast. Cause I think there's a lot of people 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.779 who fast, maybe even for spiritual reasons, but 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.819 they're still preoccupied by food, right? So 00:27:33.819 --> 00:27:35.599 when they're not eating, they're thinking of... 00:27:35.549 --> 00:27:39.329 not eating, and they're not necessarily taking 00:27:39.329 --> 00:27:43.369 that opportunity to kind of reorient their priorities. 00:27:44.190 --> 00:27:49.450 And so I encourage anyone who wants to try fasting 00:27:49.450 --> 00:27:56.349 that when that hunger comes up is that they use 00:27:56.349 --> 00:28:00.109 that as a trigger to kind of understand more. 00:28:00.430 --> 00:28:04.630 what their hunger for food is all about, but 00:28:04.630 --> 00:28:08.369 what is their hunger for God all about? And how 00:28:08.369 --> 00:28:15.910 can they reorientate that desire from food to 00:28:15.910 --> 00:28:21.029 God and understanding more of filling the heart 00:28:21.029 --> 00:28:24.930 as opposed to filling the stomach. Yeah. So we 00:28:24.930 --> 00:28:27.940 have fasting. Are there other? Tips or things 00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:31.680 that we might say gratitude. Yeah. Okay. I was 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.500 gonna say gratitude, you know the times when 00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:38.400 When we've practiced being grateful for food. 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.200 I always I don't know whether it's just me But 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.480 it's certainly when I've cooked and put food 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.599 on the table. Yeah, it's easier to feel grateful 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:50.519 It is then if you shove something in, you know, 00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:53.500 that's already prepared and munch it down and 00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:57.230 so You know, practicing that gratitude just brings 00:28:57.230 --> 00:29:00.490 you intentionally to recognize food as a gift 00:29:00.490 --> 00:29:03.309 that it is and God as the giver of that gift 00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:06.710 that he is, right? And it certainly slows you 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:08.869 down instead of, I don't know, wolfing down whatever 00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:10.690 is put in front of you straight away without 00:29:10.690 --> 00:29:14.490 a thought. So, yeah, I would say gratitude is 00:29:14.490 --> 00:29:17.970 one practice that we can... And, you know, and... 00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:20.799 I know people have so many different health needs, 00:29:20.859 --> 00:29:23.039 so I want to say this with some caution, but 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:28.019 as much as possible, reach for the vegetables, 00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:32.180 reach for the fruits, reach for the things that 00:29:32.180 --> 00:29:35.759 help you inherently moderate. They talk about 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.960 the fact that if you put more vegetables on your 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.039 plate, chances of overeating because you've got 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.059 a whole lot of refined grains are fewer, inherently. 00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:49.210 So if struggles with quantity are an issue, you 00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:51.910 know, instead of constantly obsessing about sizes, 00:29:52.829 --> 00:29:55.289 maybe some, you know, move towards the sorts 00:29:55.289 --> 00:30:00.059 of whole, if you can. fruits and vegetables and 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:01.900 things. Those are very practical things that 00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:06.779 I struggle to incorporate in my own life. Not 00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:07.859 always successfully. That's a great suggestion 00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:10.700 on healthy eating. Yeah. That reminds me, I forgot 00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:14.140 I was going to bring a big stack of cookies and 00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:16.279 just be eating a cookie, just like constantly 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.460 like one cookie after another as we're talking 00:30:19.460 --> 00:30:23.200 and just like, oh yeah, okay. I thought it would 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.599 be ironic, but I forgot to bring them. It's unfortunate. 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.900 Yes. We could probably find some cookies in the 00:30:28.900 --> 00:30:31.440 kitchen. We probably could. We just start at 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:32.819 the beginning again. That's OK. I don't need 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:34.740 to be eating cookies all through the podcast. 00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:37.839 The other thing, like when you were talking about, 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:40.500 you know, choosing vegetables, one of the things 00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:42.980 it's hard to do in Canada in the winter, but 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:45.819 when you can is like choosing food that like 00:30:45.819 --> 00:30:48.259 you know where it comes from. Yeah. Right. And 00:30:48.259 --> 00:30:53.039 it you reestablish that connection. So all summer 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.640 long, I will do my best. I don't always do. great, 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:58.119 but I will do my best to buy all of my produce 00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:00.720 at like farmers markets. Oh, nice. Right. Because 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.539 like I want to be able to say, OK, it's not just 00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:06.299 like, OK, this is a whole food. This is a whole 00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:09.359 food with a story. Yes. That I can like go and 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.779 see and I can build a relationship with the person 00:31:11.779 --> 00:31:15.059 who grew this food and like, yeah, just like 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.619 reestablishing those connections to the food. 00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:21.029 And then. Ideally consuming that food in connection 00:31:21.029 --> 00:31:23.549 with other people. Yeah, right So like I know 00:31:23.549 --> 00:31:25.589 where this I have this connection to the food 00:31:25.589 --> 00:31:27.849 I have this connection to other people and it 00:31:27.849 --> 00:31:31.789 it just reorients those like this is what food 00:31:31.789 --> 00:31:34.599 is really meant to be it's like a A thing that 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.299 brings us together, I think. Yeah, and I think 00:31:37.299 --> 00:31:40.579 that is also one of the antidotes to gluttony 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:46.339 is eating food together. Yes. So there is a communal, 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:52.240 a community aspect to food. I mean, it's no mistake 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:57.799 that Jesus took the Passover. dinner and made 00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.500 it into the last supper where he shared with 00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:02.720 his disciples and others and said, you know, 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.240 this is my body and this is my blood. Because 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:12.200 that was an important aspect of life is coming 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.559 together to eat together. And then that turned 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.220 into life giving, not just on a physical level, 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:23.059 but on a spiritual level. And so there's this 00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:26.579 great analogy between actually eating a meal 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:31.519 and partaking of the Lord's Supper or Eucharist 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:36.640 or Holy Communion in the service and it has some 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:41.799 great connections there. And I just wanted to 00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:43.619 do a shout out for the community meal that we 00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:46.799 have here at Trinity because that also kind of 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.140 in terms of the reasons why we wanted to do it 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.700 in the first place is that we identified a need 00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:58.059 in the community of people that were going hungry, 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:03.099 but people that were also lonely. And so the 00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:06.559 community meal that we do each month at Trinity 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.430 brings people in for the community. Many of the 00:33:09.430 --> 00:33:12.630 members of the church volunteer to help out to 00:33:12.630 --> 00:33:15.670 run the program, but we're bringing in people 00:33:15.670 --> 00:33:18.609 in the community who are facing food insecurity, 00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:22.849 who are facing social isolation, and we're providing 00:33:22.849 --> 00:33:27.589 good food and a great environment, a great community, 00:33:27.650 --> 00:33:34.250 friendship, and I think that is kind of in the 00:33:34.250 --> 00:33:39.880 face. It's the community coming together to care 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:45.140 for each other and to do that in relationship 00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:50.279 over a good meal. That's a cure -all, if anything 00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.759 else is. In the short time that we've been doing 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.420 it, I think we've experienced a lot of really 00:33:56.420 --> 00:33:59.380 great benefits that have come out of that. Yeah, 00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:05.140 for sure. I feel like we've ended up in this 00:34:05.140 --> 00:34:07.619 place that we come to again and again throughout 00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:11.840 our conversations, which is that our sins and 00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.039 the antidotes to these sins are all about balance, 00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:19.079 right? It's all about, you know, the seven deadly 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.519 sins are all about, you know, the things that 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.420 we are trying to go for in place of God. Yes. 00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:27.510 And the antidotes to these sins, the things that 00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:30.570 help us is bringing whatever it is, whether it's 00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:33.969 food or sex or money or power, bring that back 00:34:33.969 --> 00:34:36.769 into its proper place. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:34:36.949 --> 00:34:39.250 And I think so, yes. It's the balance. When you 00:34:39.250 --> 00:34:40.710 talk about the balance, I was thinking, well, 00:34:40.829 --> 00:34:43.150 actually, it's about that reorientation towards 00:34:43.150 --> 00:34:47.110 God, recognizing the place, as you said, the 00:34:47.110 --> 00:34:50.230 place of these in relation there and then recognizing. 00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:54.969 how to avoid some of the insanity that happen 00:34:54.969 --> 00:34:59.670 when they take up the place of an idol. So the 00:34:59.670 --> 00:35:03.789 answer really is Jesus. It is Jesus. We joke 00:35:03.789 --> 00:35:06.210 about that as a Sunday school thing. The answer 00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:11.989 really is Jesus. It's Jesus as creator, right? 00:35:12.010 --> 00:35:15.230 It's Jesus as Savior, it's Jesus as someone, 00:35:15.369 --> 00:35:18.630 as comforter, as friend, as the one who shapes 00:35:18.630 --> 00:35:22.110 your identity, as the one who calls you to follow 00:35:22.110 --> 00:35:25.070 him and says his yoke is easier and his burden 00:35:25.070 --> 00:35:28.429 is lighter than carrying all the burdens of this 00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:33.110 world that you can exchange his following. And 00:35:33.110 --> 00:35:35.030 Jesus said he is the bread of life. And he is 00:35:35.030 --> 00:35:38.190 the bread of life. All the things. Yeah. No, 00:35:38.190 --> 00:35:41.590 that's so good. Um, yeah, so thank you for this 00:35:41.590 --> 00:35:44.469 conversation and for this whole series of conversations. 00:35:44.690 --> 00:35:47.210 I think this has been a really hopeful way to 00:35:47.210 --> 00:35:49.929 lean into some of the problems that we sometimes 00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:52.630 experience in our culture, but also the hope 00:35:52.630 --> 00:35:55.650 that is offered to us through the way of Jesus. 00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.360 Well, thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, thanks, 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:00.800 Kyla. Thanks, Bill. And thank you for tuning 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.199 in and listening to us throughout this whole 00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.280 conversation. I hope that you have also been 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.199 able to find some moments of hope, some moments 00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.940 of ways to move forward and pursuing the way 00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.800 of Jesus, even amidst all of the challenges of 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.320 this life. So we'll see you again next week.