WEBVTT 00:00:04.670 --> 00:00:07.429 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:07.429 --> 00:00:10.589 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana. 00:00:10.849 --> 00:00:14.050 And my name is still Bill. And I'm Johanna. And 00:00:14.050 --> 00:00:17.410 we are here to continue unpacking our sermon 00:00:17.410 --> 00:00:20.429 series together. Today we're specifically talking 00:00:20.429 --> 00:00:24.949 about a sin called wrath. Now when you hear the 00:00:24.949 --> 00:00:26.309 word wrath, Bill, what's the first thing that 00:00:26.309 --> 00:00:29.199 comes to mind? Well, the first thing that comes 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.460 to mind is my experience of Wrath as a kid and 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:34.479 that was watching the Star Trek movie Wrath of 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:37.939 Khan. Right, okay. The character Khan was very, 00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:42.920 very angry. Yes. And he was just all about revenge 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:46.719 and wanting to pay back ten times. all the people 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:50.320 that he felt did him wrong. Okay, ten times specifically. 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:54.439 Wow, I mean, it's just a lot. It was very overkill. 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.219 And I think, kind of reflecting on it afterwards, 00:00:57.460 --> 00:01:00.000 that was a pretty good depiction as a character 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.479 of Roth. It really was the Roth of Khan. Okay. 00:01:04.060 --> 00:01:06.659 I think though, outside of maybe Roth of Khan... 00:01:06.329 --> 00:01:08.530 And maybe sometimes in church, we talk about 00:01:08.530 --> 00:01:10.689 like the wrath of God. But in general, wrath 00:01:10.689 --> 00:01:14.870 is not a commonly used word, I don't think. So 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:16.709 maybe let's start there. What are some other 00:01:16.709 --> 00:01:20.349 words that maybe are similar to wrath that people 00:01:20.349 --> 00:01:24.890 use more commonly? Angry. Angry. Okay. Rage. 00:01:25.209 --> 00:01:29.329 Rage. Yep. Infuriating. Infuriating, yes. Other 00:01:29.329 --> 00:01:33.859 things. Like, contempt is kind of similar to 00:01:33.859 --> 00:01:36.459 wrath. Resentment. Resentment is kind of similar 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:39.859 to wrath. Distain. Distain, yes. See, we're just 00:01:39.859 --> 00:01:43.379 like a living thesaurus here. That's great. So, 00:01:43.379 --> 00:01:45.040 okay, so there's all of these words, but how 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.700 are they different than wrath? Maybe let's start 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:50.400 with anger, because that's probably the most 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.079 common. What are some similarities between anger 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:54.719 and wrath, and maybe what are some differences? 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.120 I'd say anger is the umbrella term. Okay. You 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:05.040 know. I mean, and then the others speak to different 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:08.680 intensities or durations or kinds of anger. Resentment's 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:11.539 a much more simmering internal anger towards 00:02:11.539 --> 00:02:14.819 somebody that doesn't necessarily get expressed, 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:18.740 whereas rage just feels excessive, very expressed, 00:02:18.819 --> 00:02:22.400 right? Violence. And so, yeah, anger feels like, 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:24.180 you know, when we think about anger management, 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.800 we are talking about like something broader, 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:31.729 right? So, yeah. That would be my answer. They're 00:02:31.729 --> 00:02:34.789 all aggressive, I guess. They're all rooted in 00:02:34.789 --> 00:02:39.150 some form of aggression. It's about how you then... 00:02:39.189 --> 00:02:42.030 express that aggression, right? That sort of 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:45.629 gives us some of those nuances. Yeah. Yeah. I'd 00:02:45.629 --> 00:02:49.129 differentiate between anger and wrath. I think 00:02:49.129 --> 00:02:54.210 a wrath and just to say that, you know, anger, 00:02:54.590 --> 00:02:57.009 when we're talking about it as a seven deadly 00:02:57.009 --> 00:03:03.020 sin, it is... Anger is not the sin is wrath is 00:03:03.020 --> 00:03:06.080 the sin, right? So so and and we read in scripture 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.360 and we heard today from Rob that that you can 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.979 be angry and not sin So so and then but when 00:03:11.979 --> 00:03:14.919 it's when you're talking about Roth in the Bible 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:18.680 It's it is talking about, you know going past 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:23.099 that feeling of anger and to into an inappropriate 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:26.460 action, right? And I think it's more similar. 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.530 I think rage and Roth is more similar. I think 00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:32.550 Roth is not a word that's is commonly used in 00:03:32.550 --> 00:03:34.990 our in our culture, but I think everyone understands 00:03:34.990 --> 00:03:38.349 rage and that it's like you can be angry and 00:03:38.349 --> 00:03:43.530 it is an emotion, you know, and it could be aggressive 00:03:43.530 --> 00:03:46.789 emotion. But when you think about rage, it's 00:03:46.789 --> 00:03:49.069 definitely that right. It's aggressive and it's 00:03:49.069 --> 00:03:51.310 hurtful and it's and it's and it's out to get 00:03:51.310 --> 00:03:53.789 you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's like that 00:03:53.789 --> 00:03:57.419 anger, which is yeah, I'm like. Unhappy about 00:03:57.419 --> 00:04:00.780 something I like something is wrong in the world 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:03.599 and then rage or wrath is like I'm gonna like 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:07.060 hurt somebody Right, right because of this emotion 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:10.759 or this experience that I'm having. Yeah So you 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.199 already just alluded to build we can be angry 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:18.720 and not sin So how does that work? When is anger 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:22.639 sin and when does anger become? wrath or sinful 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:27.439 Any thoughts on that? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I'd like 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.959 to refer to the sermon today. Sure. I actually 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:33.740 thought that Pastor Rob's notion that sinful 00:04:33.740 --> 00:04:38.680 wrath is very often too hot. So explosive, impetuous, 00:04:39.699 --> 00:04:44.759 unthoughtful, uncontrolled in the moment. Lasts 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.560 too long. That's your resentment, that sort of 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.759 planning vengeance. That's, you know, that sense 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.879 of holding on to grudges. or misguided. It's 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.680 not directed at an appropriate thing. Somebody 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:00.680 cuts you off on the road and you just, you know, 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.720 and you respond. And it's not an injustice that 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:07.100 you're angry at. It's a kind of hurt ego or it's 00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:10.819 some sense of something. It's a minor inconvenience. 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:15.579 Right. And you end up exploding in anger against 00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:18.759 them. And so you've got. the things that, the 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.959 ways you can be angry, as well as what you're 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.600 angry at, and in both ways it's possible to sin. 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:32.839 Right. Yeah, I'm thinking for Roth, the... in 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:36.540 the Bible, the wrath is often reserved for God, 00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:41.740 right? For us, it's talked about as a sin, but 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:46.060 when you read about wrath in the Bible, the wrath 00:05:46.060 --> 00:05:51.480 of God, or the God's wrath is upon us, or the 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.399 day of wrath is often referred to as the final 00:05:55.399 --> 00:06:01.990 judgment in the end times. So I think it's okay. 00:06:02.350 --> 00:06:05.449 We'll let Him have it. Let God have the wrath. 00:06:05.529 --> 00:06:08.050 I think He can do it right. And I think we get 00:06:08.050 --> 00:06:11.990 it wrong a lot of the times. And it even cautions 00:06:11.990 --> 00:06:15.990 us in one of the scriptures that... was in Rob's 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:18.889 sermon today, was from Romans 12 .9. It says, 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:21.810 do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:24.329 room for God's wrath, for it is written, it is 00:06:24.329 --> 00:06:27.269 mine to avenge, I will repay, says the Lord. 00:06:27.870 --> 00:06:31.910 And so, yeah, we can be angry and we can respond 00:06:31.910 --> 00:06:34.750 in our anger, but I think when it comes to wrath, 00:06:34.889 --> 00:06:38.389 I think we leave it for God. Right, right. Yeah, 00:06:38.430 --> 00:06:41.350 so then that takes us back to asking, okay, like 00:06:41.350 --> 00:06:45.500 where... Where is the line? Right? Like and and 00:06:45.500 --> 00:06:47.339 so I think you started to answer that right to 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:49.980 say like if it's burning too hot Burning too 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:54.079 long and directed at the wrong thing So I think 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.000 that gives us sort of three helpful guidelines, 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:58.839 but I think it's still it's hard to know Sometimes 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.720 right like what I also sorry if I could add also 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.220 like when you're angry What are you you know 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:07.639 that notion of what you're directly angry at 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.790 and what you hope to achieve? And I think one 00:07:10.790 --> 00:07:14.490 of the ways you can think about anger also is 00:07:14.490 --> 00:07:17.350 especially in respect to another person Yeah, 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:20.670 right. Do you want them to hurt or is your goal? 00:07:21.629 --> 00:07:24.389 Correction guidance reconciliation, right? Yeah. 00:07:24.389 --> 00:07:25.930 Yeah. So when we were talking earlier this week, 00:07:25.990 --> 00:07:28.029 like you brought up, you know parenting Yes, 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.250 right parenting like there are times and I have 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:33.329 to be stern with the kids, right? You know simply 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:36.389 consistently being nice, you know, there are 00:07:36.389 --> 00:07:40.620 times and they need to know that there are consequences 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:44.259 for either, you know, some things they could 00:07:44.259 --> 00:07:46.379 be doing that are actually dangerous and harmful 00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:48.319 for them in the long run, right? And I need to 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.660 be stern about making those clear to them. And 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:55.620 so, you know, if I scold them, there's an anger 00:07:55.620 --> 00:07:58.550 that is geared towards... correction, towards 00:07:58.550 --> 00:08:01.850 guidance, towards building them up. And that's 00:08:01.850 --> 00:08:05.610 very different from lashing out, wanting somebody 00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:10.569 to be hurt. And so those goals have to be differentiated. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:16.319 Anger is a tricky thing, right? We're told that 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.019 being angry is okay, but in your anger, don't 00:08:20.019 --> 00:08:23.379 sin. So there is a line that you're talking about. 00:08:23.740 --> 00:08:26.879 And then we're also told that we shouldn't rush 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.959 to anger. So another scripture verse, James 1 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:32.600 .19, my dear brothers and sisters, take note 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.159 of this. Everyone should be quick to listen. 00:08:35.610 --> 00:08:38.889 slow to speak and slow to become angry. So there's 00:08:38.889 --> 00:08:42.110 a good model for us in terms of how to deal with 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:47.370 anger and that ultimately anger by itself is 00:08:47.370 --> 00:08:50.389 not the solution. Another verse is because human 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.769 anger does not produce the righteousness that 00:08:52.769 --> 00:08:57.549 God desires. I think it's okay for us to be angry, 00:08:58.169 --> 00:09:01.820 but if angry is our solution, then we're not 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:07.039 giving God the space to provide the solution, 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:11.759 right? Either for our own self and how we feel 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.279 or in the response to whatever we're angry about. 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:20.899 In our culture today, like we said, we don't 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:23.720 use the word wrath. We do talk about anger. We 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:26.879 talk about or we feel resentment. So is there 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:28.700 a sense, like, how does our culture sort of treat 00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:31.919 these words? Is anger seen as an appropriate 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:33.820 thing? Is it seen as something that we're not 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:38.440 supposed to express? Yeah, I think you were sort 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:41.179 of sharing with me earlier that there was some 00:09:41.179 --> 00:09:45.799 tension there, right? I guess so. Yeah. I mean, 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:49.649 like, it's... kind of okay to be angry like it 00:09:49.649 --> 00:09:53.029 just is but in some cases people feel like they 00:09:53.029 --> 00:09:55.629 need to repress it yeah and that's when it gets 00:09:55.629 --> 00:09:58.309 like really unhealthy is when you just have anger 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:01.309 building up and you keep putting it down right 00:10:01.309 --> 00:10:04.370 it has nowhere to go and that can actually manifest 00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:07.429 in like physical symptoms of like um like bad 00:10:07.429 --> 00:10:10.409 health and stuff so right yeah that's kind of 00:10:10.409 --> 00:10:12.370 what i was talking about yeah yeah and i think 00:10:12.370 --> 00:10:16.690 there is a sense in which Throughout this whole 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:18.169 series, we sort of come back to there's often 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:20.769 two extremes in which people respond to things, 00:10:20.789 --> 00:10:22.769 right? And so there is, I think you're right, 00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:25.590 a very real sense of like, it's okay to be angry, 00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:28.629 right? And people are encouraged to express that. 00:10:28.789 --> 00:10:31.309 But I think there are also circumstances and 00:10:31.309 --> 00:10:33.970 sort of subcultures in which it says, never ever 00:10:33.970 --> 00:10:37.210 be angry about anything, right? And then it does 00:10:37.210 --> 00:10:39.429 lead to those like negative health effects like 00:10:39.429 --> 00:10:42.990 you were talking about. Yeah. Other thoughts, 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:44.870 like what does anger look like? in our culture, 00:10:45.029 --> 00:10:48.090 is it acceptable? I think, sorry, I thought our 00:10:48.090 --> 00:10:51.889 culture was just, it's almost categorized certain 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:53.950 kinds of anger as harmful. And so I think that's 00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:56.649 easy to recognize. Abuse, assault, right? We 00:10:56.649 --> 00:11:00.350 have these words for anger expressed in these 00:11:00.350 --> 00:11:03.350 really harmful ways. Bullying even, you know, 00:11:03.389 --> 00:11:05.889 what does it mean like? On the other hand, I 00:11:05.889 --> 00:11:08.779 think that there are... Our culture feels more 00:11:08.779 --> 00:11:11.320 and more angry in many ways, despite calling 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.240 all these out. You've got the internet that makes 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.279 anonymity, where people are aggressive on the 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:20.980 internet. They can bully on the internet. They 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:23.240 can threaten on the internet without consequences. 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:26.519 And they can dehumanize whoever's on the other 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:29.980 side. And so you've got increasing senses of 00:11:29.980 --> 00:11:34.840 fear when we've got this kind of... digital culture 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:39.820 of anger that is easily expressed and it's everywhere. 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.740 If you're online in these spaces, whether it's 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:47.879 Facebook or social media or anywhere, you know 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:51.960 that that exists. So that's one space where I 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.379 think our culture, on the one hand, it is calling 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:57.100 out anger and on the other hand, there are entire 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:02.019 spaces where it's prevalent and it's destructive. 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.580 and I was thinking as you were talking there 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:08.000 like I wonder if part of the reason that anger 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:12.159 gets expressed so easily on the internet is because 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.519 we don't have enough other spaces to express 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.419 it in a healthy way maybe that's true maybe that's 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:22.919 not but I think folks are feeling a sense of 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.200 anger a sense of like injustice, and they just 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.820 don't know what to do with it. And suddenly they're 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:31.740 given the internet where they can do that. Right. 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.919 Openly and anonymously in some cases. That becomes 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.759 a problem. Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes it's 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.100 a case of injustice. Sometimes it's a case of 00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:42.559 wounded pride. Sometimes it's a case of entitlement. 00:12:42.700 --> 00:12:44.879 Sometimes it's like there's a range of other 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.340 issues. Sometimes it's the sense of helplessness. 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.879 People needing help, feeling a lack of agency, 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.360 feeling a lack of that help, and then sort of 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.559 burning and resent. and anger at any number of 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:00.059 things. So there's all kinds of ways in which 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:03.940 the internet creates a forum for people who feel, 00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:06.559 I would say, fear or helpless in certain ways 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:10.139 to sort of lash out. I think that's very well 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:15.480 expressed, Jordana. For me personally, I think 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.019 I struggle with anger, but maybe in a different 00:13:18.019 --> 00:13:20.899 way. I often get people say to me, you know, 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.059 Bill, how come you never get angry? And and I 00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:28.659 guess that's because I don't physically show 00:13:28.659 --> 00:13:33.580 my anger. I don't get angry at people. But that's 00:13:33.580 --> 00:13:36.710 mostly because I just keep it. Bottled up inside 00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:40.970 sure and and I think you know not to go into 00:13:40.970 --> 00:13:44.529 you know psychoanalyzing things, but I be It's 00:13:44.529 --> 00:13:47.889 all my mother's fault No, it's just like I think 00:13:47.889 --> 00:13:51.669 I just had You know I had some not very good 00:13:51.669 --> 00:13:54.409 examples of how to deal with anger Sure, and 00:13:54.409 --> 00:13:57.110 and I didn't want that to be part of my life 00:13:57.110 --> 00:13:59.950 But again like we said you know one one it you 00:13:59.950 --> 00:14:01.850 know one way pendulum swing to the other way 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:04.649 and the so because I didn't want to be an angry 00:14:04.649 --> 00:14:09.899 person I guarded that in my life and just my 00:14:09.899 --> 00:14:12.500 outward expression, it was always kind of just 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:16.179 to not show anger, but bottling that up inside 00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:19.279 just, and Rob talked about it, about inappropriate 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:22.120 expressions of anger, right? When you don't deal 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.200 with anger, you're not appropriately angry in 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.600 your life, then it gets bottled up. And for me, 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:35.919 it came out in just being, in lashing out at 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.179 the people that I love the most, right? And so 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:41.600 instead of directing that anger in a positive 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.240 direction or towards those who needed to hear 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:50.399 it, I was just lashing out at, I mean, it was 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.840 eating me up inside and then it was coming out 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.820 in inappropriate ways, like affecting my family 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:59.379 and loved ones and stuff, which is not cool. 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.620 No, no. the other thing that i think about when 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:05.559 i think about like the internet is this term 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.960 like rage bait that like people put things out 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.419 there specifically because they want to make 00:15:11.419 --> 00:15:14.580 other people angry and react to them and if we're 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:18.580 really honest there is a a little guilty pleasure 00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:20.759 in the back of our minds that like is enjoying 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.960 watching internet debates play out. I don't know. 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.919 I don't know. Popcorn. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:29.720 oh, they said that. Ooh, they took it there. 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:32.139 Like, yeah, I don't know. So I don't know what 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:35.220 that says about our culture. Yeah. I think that's 00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:37.500 part of the architecture, though, of the internet 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.480 in certain ways. Right. And actually, that was 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.000 that it was one of those debates that got me 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:45.779 off Facebook because. it was a few years ago 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:51.259 now and a friend who I knew well in person you 00:15:51.259 --> 00:15:54.080 know had posted something in a way that I knew 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:58.159 he would never do in real life and there was 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:01.820 this debate that happened online and then I went 00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:05.259 to respond and I stopped myself I was like no 00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:08.039 I wouldn't do this and you know and I also knew 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:12.110 that he would say this very differently, much 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:14.009 more gently. I knew the kind of person he was, 00:16:14.190 --> 00:16:18.850 but the tone of contempt, of anger that emerged 00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:21.490 online was so different from what I knew he could 00:16:21.490 --> 00:16:25.350 be. And then I recognized how I was responding. 00:16:25.509 --> 00:16:28.429 I was like, look, I just have to stop this. I 00:16:28.429 --> 00:16:32.350 don't like what I'm seeing in you. I don't like 00:16:32.350 --> 00:16:35.710 what I'm seeing in this medium, which is encouraging 00:16:35.710 --> 00:16:38.879 and enabling this kind of speech. and I don't 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.620 like my own response and that was the point at 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:44.840 which I said I'm getting off this. You know, 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.700 it felt like even though we had not actually 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:51.159 spoken, it felt like our... relationship had 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:54.080 shifted based on how I was seeing him and all 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.340 of these sort of you know complicated emotions 00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.799 were clashing and I thought this is not healthy 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.039 you know and it was the point at which I had 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.920 just stopped being on Facebook. It's good to 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.859 know when to check yourself yeah in a professional 00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:12.869 setting. When I got angry about stuff, I would 00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:15.109 allow myself to write the letter that I wanted 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:17.769 to write. So if I was responding to something 00:17:17.769 --> 00:17:20.509 in association or whatever the situation was, 00:17:20.809 --> 00:17:23.750 something got me angry. So I wrote the letter 00:17:23.750 --> 00:17:25.630 that I wanted to write or the email that I wanted 00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:30.759 to write, and then I gave it a day. And then 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:35.259 I would look at it again and maybe show it to 00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:37.920 a couple of people and that kind of stuff. And 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.240 I'd realize that in my anger, I went too far. 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:47.980 And so I could say the same things, but less 00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:54.740 inflammatory, less accusingly. And so having 00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:58.710 given it that time and get the... comments or 00:17:58.710 --> 00:18:00.549 reflections of a couple of the people, I was 00:18:00.549 --> 00:18:02.710 able to rewrite that letter, rewrite that email 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:06.069 in a way that maybe would bring about a more 00:18:06.069 --> 00:18:08.829 positive result as opposed to just more wood 00:18:08.829 --> 00:18:13.509 to the fire. Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So 00:18:13.509 --> 00:18:18.130 we've been talking about anger in a sort of neutral 00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:20.009 or negative sense in which, you know, sometimes 00:18:20.009 --> 00:18:22.009 there are the things that don't, that shouldn't 00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:23.970 cause us to be angry, that do, that cause us 00:18:23.970 --> 00:18:25.809 to lash out. But what about when there's things 00:18:25.809 --> 00:18:29.500 that, like, we should be justifiably angry about. 00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:32.779 Is that possible for us to have a kind of righteous 00:18:32.779 --> 00:18:35.880 anger or justified anger? I think definitely. 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:38.000 Definitely we can have a righteous anger. Okay. 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:40.920 So what does that look like? When does that happen? 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.259 So, I mean, when I think of righteous anger, 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:47.099 I always think of both the anger at something 00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:51.059 worthy of being angry about, something that is 00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:52.700 unjust, something that somebody's oppressing 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:57.460 someone. and the way the response is directed. 00:18:57.819 --> 00:19:01.059 Both have to matter. So I think we live in a 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:03.299 culture where a lot of people are very righteously 00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.839 angry and are not necessarily responding because, 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:08.900 and that's one of the dangers of I think sinful 00:19:08.900 --> 00:19:11.259 anger, just going back a little to sinful anger. 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.259 The danger is that you feel you're right. And 00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:18.119 so you feel justified. in victimizing somebody 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.079 else or really harming somebody else because 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.539 you're the right one and they deserve to be hurt 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:27.160 or they deserve to pay or they deserve to... 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.799 That's where I think even when you are right, 00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:34.819 a response can be really problematic, right? 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.819 The places where you've got a directed anger 00:19:39.819 --> 00:19:43.089 and I'm thinking of the greats, right? Nelson 00:19:43.089 --> 00:19:46.710 Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther King Jr., 00:19:46.710 --> 00:19:49.250 even Gandhi's nonviolence, sort of you oppose 00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:54.380 the injustice in a way that does not... reduce 00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:57.000 the humanity of the other people. Like, if you 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.880 think about Jesus' notion that we pray for our 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.339 enemies, love our enemies, right? You know, be 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.200 angry and don't sin, don't pull from today's 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:07.380 sermon, don't take vengeance into your own hands. 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.519 One of the things that anger can tempt us to 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.339 do is to reduce the other person to their mistake 00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:15.819 or to their fault. And it is a fault, right? 00:20:15.819 --> 00:20:18.859 It is an injustice. And I think there's always 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:21.519 a sense in the Bible that that, given the grace 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.589 we have received, That is not the answer. You 00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:27.329 do not reduce the person you oppose to their 00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:32.470 fault. And so even anger that is expressed in 00:20:32.470 --> 00:20:35.150 times of injustice, if that goal is in building 00:20:35.150 --> 00:20:40.029 and reconciliation, correction, if it's always 00:20:40.029 --> 00:20:46.490 just, well, now we will be deciding on justice 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:52.769 for you, that gets dangerous, I think. even a 00:20:52.769 --> 00:20:55.490 righteous anger can be directed in really harmful 00:20:55.490 --> 00:20:58.009 ways. Sure. I think there's a difference between 00:20:58.009 --> 00:21:00.549 wrath and righteous anger, and maybe that wrath 00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:05.289 part is where it goes into not positive direction, 00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:09.190 but when you think of wrath, I'd say that wrath 00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:12.210 just wants to start a fight, and then righteous 00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:15.509 anger, this was said in the sermon today, righteous 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:20.180 anger wants to do what's right. And I really 00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:23.859 like that turn of phrase. And I think it does 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:27.420 speak to the heart of both what wrath is all 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.380 about and what righteous anger is all about. 00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:33.759 And for me, I think righteous anger is never 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.440 about me. And I think that's the distinction 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:42.119 when I'm thinking about being angry or feeling 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:46.009 wrath or rage. It's often an injustice. That 00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:49.990 I feel is against me right and and so I kind 00:21:49.990 --> 00:21:53.069 of check myself in that situation I think righteous 00:21:53.069 --> 00:21:57.250 anger is most often I can include you but it 00:21:57.250 --> 00:22:02.660 does it but it's It is being angry about what 00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:05.180 is happening, something bad happening to other 00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:08.119 people. People are being oppressed or they're 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:12.359 being abused and you get angry about that and 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.240 want to do something about that. I just do want 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.839 to add though that if somebody has been on the 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.059 receiving end of abuse, they might feel angry 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:23.660 and they'd be right to be. Oh, of course. So 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:25.420 when you said it's only about other people, I 00:22:25.420 --> 00:22:27.660 just wanted to include - No, I didn't say it's 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.569 only about other people. people. I said when 00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:33.799 it's only about me. then I check myself to make 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:38.019 sure that it is an appropriate anger and responding 00:22:38.019 --> 00:22:42.700 appropriately. For me, it's a red flag. It's 00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:46.160 not an absolute one way. Very few times am I 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.480 an absolute one way or the other. Yeah, you were 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:51.019 speaking about your own... I just misunderstood. 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:52.500 You were speaking about your own experience. 00:22:52.819 --> 00:22:55.440 I was just going to suggest for somebody listening 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.960 if they've been on the receiving end of that 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:00.940 kind of... assault or abuse, you know, it may 00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:03.539 not, it may be about them in the sense of that 00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:06.059 healing that is necessary, that working through 00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:09.559 that, you know, the sort of pursuing of justice. 00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:11.980 It's perfectly okay for them to be angry, right? 00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:14.759 But in their angry, in their anger, they can 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:19.130 also sin. in responding to that, right? I heard 00:23:19.130 --> 00:23:24.569 a really powerful sermon on healing from a Baptist 00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:28.950 bishop in the States 20 years ago. And he was 00:23:28.950 --> 00:23:33.410 speaking to people who have been abused in the 00:23:33.410 --> 00:23:37.029 church. I mean, in the congregation, not necessarily 00:23:37.029 --> 00:23:38.849 abused by the church, but I guess that counts 00:23:38.849 --> 00:23:42.190 too. But he was speaking to people who had been 00:23:42.190 --> 00:23:45.009 abused and who were hurt and in pain and angry. 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.660 about that abuse and he was challenging them 00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:50.099 and it was really challenging but he was challenging 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:54.980 them to let go and to forgive and on the basis 00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:59.119 of that that hurt and pain and anger that they 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.700 felt day after day was just their abuser abusing 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:07.420 them again and again and again and if they forgave 00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:11.220 them, they let it go, then the power of that 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.180 abuser in their life would dissipate. Sure. Yeah, 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:19.160 I think that's true and helpful. I think, again, 00:24:19.539 --> 00:24:21.599 always always going back to the pairing of things. 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:23.920 But I think you need to pair that also with the 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.079 message that there is a time to be angry. Yeah, 00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:29.079 there is a time to feel that and that, you know, 00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:33.089 we don't jump right to. Letting it go and and 00:24:33.089 --> 00:24:35.710 what letting it go looks like I think is an important 00:24:35.710 --> 00:24:37.829 thing to say in that conversation too, right? 00:24:37.869 --> 00:24:41.380 Yeah, because I would never want to say to anyone 00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:43.319 who's experienced any kind of abuse, you just 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.599 need to forgive them. And therefore that means 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.119 they get off scot -free. There's no due process. 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:51.059 There's definitely a process. Yeah, no, I know 00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:52.599 that's not what you're saying. I just want to 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:54.619 make that explicit. No, no, I agree. Thank you. 00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:58.180 And including certain kinds of actions that redress, 00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:01.180 right? Like you would do and can and it's legitimate 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:05.720 to pursue a legal... Sure against them to to 00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.819 direct that anger towards the law towards yeah, 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.700 you know seeking for help towards those spaces 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:15.799 where Vengeance is not the place you go right 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.640 and at the same time You act in the cause of 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.880 justice to to sort of hold the oppressor the 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.259 one who has oppressed to account for sure And 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.240 those are places that we need to sort of speak 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.400 to us. Yeah for sure. Yeah, I wonder Johanna, 00:25:32.500 --> 00:25:34.700 when you think about this concept of righteous 00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:37.759 anger, or being angry about the right things, 00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:43.099 what comes to mind for you? Oh my gosh, I don't 00:25:43.099 --> 00:25:46.279 get angry that often, to be honest. I mean, the 00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:49.720 only thing I think of is I don't get angry often, 00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:53.420 and then the few times I do, it's really, really 00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:55.599 disproportionate. It'll be like I stub my toe 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.480 and it's like, oh my gosh, I hate everything. 00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:01.859 Sure. Or, I don't know, just like... Finding 00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.339 ways to express it, like that's what comes to 00:26:04.339 --> 00:26:06.359 mind for me, is like finding ways to express 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.500 any type of anger that you experience, whether 00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:11.599 it's righteous or unrighteous, is probably really 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.170 important because that's like... what affects 00:26:14.170 --> 00:26:17.809 other people and also yourself. So I mean, one 00:26:17.809 --> 00:26:21.970 thing I tried was boxing, but in the first week 00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:24.789 I sprained both of my wrists on separate occasions 00:26:24.789 --> 00:26:28.329 because I was hitting wrong and very hard. And 00:26:28.329 --> 00:26:31.250 yeah, that probably wasn't like a good way to 00:26:31.250 --> 00:26:35.480 express my anger because it was unsafe. So not 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.000 angry at all is what you're saying. I mean, I 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.200 don't know. You sprained your wrist hitting people. 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.759 Yeah, I did. No, no, no, not people. Oh, things. 00:26:43.940 --> 00:26:46.000 Yeah, it was like a big punching bag thing. Oh, 00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:47.319 those punching bags cause damage. And it was 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:50.259 really hard, actually. So when I hit it, then 00:26:50.259 --> 00:26:52.740 yeah, it's like... almost fractured but oh my 00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:55.960 goodness yeah yeah that's a little intense yeah 00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:59.319 so i'm not the best with like anger sure no that's 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.599 fair um but i also think about like other conversations 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.519 that we've had around you know things like fast 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.799 fashion or like social media or things like that 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.000 where you like are really passionate about those 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.220 things i never think of that as me being angry 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:14.640 well maybe it doesn't express itself as anger 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.720 yeah it's just yeah i'm just like Zealous. Yeah. 00:27:20.380 --> 00:27:24.180 I'm not really mad or irritated. I don't get 00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:27.079 frustrated that often. I'm just kind of here. 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:31.440 Fair. I feel like that's maybe not an anger, 00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.880 but it's like an underlying passion that then 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.240 fuels itself into... Right, action and decisions 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:39.680 that you make about, you know, what you're going 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.500 to buy, where you're going to spend your time. 00:27:41.539 --> 00:27:44.180 But that could start with being angry about the 00:27:44.180 --> 00:27:46.759 injustice. Yeah, yeah, that's true, actually. 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:49.920 Like, I mean, they do, like, make me not happy. 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.140 Yeah. OK, well, that's one way to say it. You 00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:55.700 have more chill language for your anger. Yeah, 00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:00.480 I guess so. And that's not a bad thing. No, not 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:06.410 a bad thing at all, for sure. Yeah. So then we're 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:10.069 talking about wrath talking about anger And we've 00:28:10.069 --> 00:28:12.250 sort of danced around some of the ways that it 00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:15.430 might be helpful or it might be harmful So if 00:28:15.430 --> 00:28:18.049 someone is feeling like anger is a big part of 00:28:18.049 --> 00:28:19.930 their life and they're feeling like it's not 00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:22.950 something that's helpful What would be some sort 00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:26.690 of steps forward that that we might sort of suggest? 00:28:27.410 --> 00:28:31.170 Like maybe like just seeking catharsis like that 00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:34.410 stuff that'll just Just express it and get it 00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:37.269 out of your system so that it's not like a constant 00:28:37.269 --> 00:28:41.369 in your life. Like punching a punching bag. I 00:28:41.369 --> 00:28:47.049 didn't have gloves either. I just kind of went 00:28:47.049 --> 00:28:51.170 for it. Right. I mean, see, so that example like 00:28:51.170 --> 00:28:53.630 calls to mind for me. I can think of like as 00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:56.109 a teenager in high school, there's all kinds 00:28:56.109 --> 00:28:58.170 of anger flying around for lots of different 00:28:58.170 --> 00:29:01.119 reasons. But like people's go -to response and 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:03.380 sometimes my go -to response was just to like 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:06.319 hit something, right? Just like hit like, I don't 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.759 know, the wall or like a bathroom stall. Oh, 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.470 you see, you don't know. There's a big dent in 00:29:11.470 --> 00:29:14.049 one of the lockers in my high school. Yeah, because 00:29:14.049 --> 00:29:16.730 somebody gets really angry and like, okay, yes, 00:29:16.730 --> 00:29:18.730 that is a kind of catharsis, but the kind of 00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:20.829 catharsis you're calling for is like something 00:29:20.829 --> 00:29:23.910 that's actually like healthy and helpful and 00:29:23.910 --> 00:29:28.430 will not harm you. Yoga, that's nice. Yeah. Or 00:29:28.430 --> 00:29:31.029 like, do hit a punching bag safely. Yeah. Whatever 00:29:31.029 --> 00:29:33.609 you need. Put the gloves on next time. Yeah. 00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:36.490 But the other thing I would say is reflect on 00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:41.150 why you're angry, right? Sure. Is something happened 00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:43.789 to you that feels a little out of control? Sure. 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:46.309 And you wanted it, you know, you had your own 00:29:46.309 --> 00:29:50.430 plans, your plans are gone. Is that why you've 00:29:50.430 --> 00:29:53.589 exploded? Yeah. Or are you feeling frustrated 00:29:53.589 --> 00:29:55.569 about something and you're lashing out? Or what 00:29:55.569 --> 00:29:58.150 is the real emotion below the anger? Right. Is 00:29:58.150 --> 00:30:01.009 there fear for something? I know the times when 00:30:01.009 --> 00:30:04.190 I have. sort of barked at my kids the worst has 00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:06.670 been out of a space of fear like oh my god you 00:30:06.670 --> 00:30:08.789 know this is going to be damaging for them and 00:30:08.789 --> 00:30:10.990 you know when i shouted them in those moments 00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:13.029 is way worse than when i have a sense of i'm 00:30:13.029 --> 00:30:16.230 guiding you right you know and so i've had to 00:30:16.230 --> 00:30:20.009 apologize to them in cases like that so in situations 00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:23.670 where Anger becomes something where you're not 00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:27.450 reflecting on what is happening there. What is 00:30:27.450 --> 00:30:31.170 really, is it a sense of lack of agency? Are 00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:34.190 your plans out of thing and you've got a deadline 00:30:34.190 --> 00:30:39.109 coming up? Or is there fear there? Is there helplessness 00:30:39.109 --> 00:30:43.410 there? Do you need to seek help instead of just 00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:45.529 expressing the anger? Is there something deeper 00:30:45.529 --> 00:30:48.630 happening that you need to reach out? So if you're 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:51.490 not getting to the root of why you're angry, 00:30:51.630 --> 00:30:53.690 there are times when I snap at the kids because 00:30:53.690 --> 00:30:56.849 I'm just tired after a long day of work and they 00:30:56.849 --> 00:30:59.339 haven't done what they should do. It's like before 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.779 I know it, I've snapped at them, right? Like 00:31:01.779 --> 00:31:04.160 a lot, when I could have been more gentle in 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.079 telling them what to do. And so in those cases, 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.039 yeah, I have to like, oh my goodness, I'm tired 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.380 here. I'm losing patience easily. Right. So there 00:31:12.380 --> 00:31:14.880 are these other things that underlie anger and 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.819 it's worth reflecting on what it is that's making 00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:19.779 you. Exactly. I think that kind of reflection 00:31:19.779 --> 00:31:22.039 and that kind of understanding of self is so 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.140 important for us to... to in terms of how we 00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:31.759 deal with anger. I think also we could look to 00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:35.119 Jesus as an example. I think Rob did a great 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:39.839 job bringing up three or four different situations 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.819 in Jesus' ministry where he got angry about something. 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:49.119 And so following that model, what are we? What 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:51.599 are we getting angry about? Why is it making 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:57.319 us angry? What are the things, the positive, 00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:01.519 healthy ways that we can respond to that and 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:07.079 just follow Jesus' example of what He did and 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.940 why? And look into that a little bit in our own 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:13.920 personal... a faith story or journey. And I do 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:16.500 want to reiterate what Rob says about praying 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:19.440 your anger, right? It has helped me. You know, 00:32:19.579 --> 00:32:21.440 there will be times that I will tell God, I'm 00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:24.039 just furious. I'm so angry right now or I am 00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.299 afraid or I am, you know, just that. If we talk 00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:30.000 about healthy expressions of anger, that's a 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.779 great place to have a healthy expression of anger. 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:37.029 So you are expressing the frustration. the fury, 00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:39.609 the upset, whatever it is you're feeling, and 00:32:39.609 --> 00:32:42.589 there's somebody listening who can take it. And 00:32:42.589 --> 00:32:45.410 as you can release it to God. And I think that 00:32:45.410 --> 00:32:48.849 is so important to be able to process what is 00:32:48.849 --> 00:32:52.250 happening within you, and at the same time not 00:32:52.250 --> 00:32:56.289 to damage relationships and things around you. 00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.539 Yeah, the last thing I would just say is, you 00:32:59.539 --> 00:33:01.099 know, something that you said when we were talking 00:33:01.099 --> 00:33:02.900 earlier this week was thinking about, like, the 00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:06.319 spiritual dimension of what's happening as well, 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.480 which goes back to, you know, what you were saying 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.880 about who is my anger directed at? Yeah. Right. 00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:12.759 Like when there is something in the world that 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:16.119 is making us angry, it's because often something 00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:18.640 is not right in the world. And the reason that 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.240 something is not right in the world is not because 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.559 this specific person is a terrible person. It's 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.839 because the whole system the whole world is broken, 00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:32.000 right? And so, like, our anger doesn't need to 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.720 be directed at, you know, wrath or vengeance 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.680 upon this particular person. It's let's recognize 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.519 the, like, whole system here and recognize that, 00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.980 like, yeah, there God calls us to love our enemies. 00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:48.960 God calls us to pray for those who persecute 00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.819 us. And that's real hard. It's really hard. But 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:57.400 What it gets at is that underlying like spiritual 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.779 dimension of sin and brokenness in the world 00:34:01.779 --> 00:34:05.440 that Ultimately, if not in this lifetime, maybe 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.260 in the next like we do get that sense of like 00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:13.119 peace and reconciliation Yeah, even if it's through 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:19.079 a hard process. Yeah. Wow. Yep. Well said It's 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:23.420 a really good place to direct your anger and 00:34:23.420 --> 00:34:25.320 have an understanding, and spiritual understanding 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.780 of your anger. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, pairing 00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:31.139 that with some of this other practical stuff, 00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:32.860 you know, we don't want to look at the world 00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:34.699 only through this spiritual lens. We know that 00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:37.800 we also live as people in bodies who experience 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.320 broken things, but I think we bring them together 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:45.460 really well. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, folks. 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:48.800 This has been… a hopeful conversation about anger, 00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:52.219 which is really good, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.239 And so for those who are listening, thank you 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:57.400 for tuning in and listening to us talk this through. 00:34:57.460 --> 00:34:59.980 And hopefully it's prompted some reflection in 00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:02.340 your life as well. And you can find some helpful 00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:05.480 ways to move through those situations that cause 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.320 anger in you. And we'll see you again next week.