WEBVTT 00:00:03.620 --> 00:00:06.259 Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.259 --> 00:00:09.300 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana. 00:00:09.500 --> 00:00:13.000 My name is Bill. And I'm Johanna. And we are 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.120 continuing our podcast series where we're reflecting 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:18.539 on the sermons or the teaching that just took 00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:21.359 place during our service. And today's topic is 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:23.820 a little bit awkward. But also I think something 00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:26.399 that's really important and something that actually 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:29.100 one of our viewers requested that we talk about 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:31.780 this topic even before they knew about the sermon 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:34.780 series. So that I think shows that this is something 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:36.799 that's important that people are thinking about 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:42.179 and want to talk about. And that is lust. So 00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:44.960 before we dive into what lust is and sort of 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.679 what that looks like, as I said, it's really 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:51.420 awkward. It's hard to talk about. Why? What do 00:00:51.420 --> 00:00:53.920 we think makes this so hard for us to talk about? 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:56.840 Bill? Well, I'm not sure what you mean because 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.179 of all the seven deadly sins, I think this is 00:00:59.179 --> 00:01:01.520 the one that I relate to the least. So I really 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.739 don't know what the big deal is or what we're 00:01:04.739 --> 00:01:07.459 talking about here. This is not an issue for 00:01:07.459 --> 00:01:10.879 me at all. I hope you got the sarcasm in my voice. 00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:16.840 The denial. If you don't laugh, you're going 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:20.459 to cry. I know. Johanna, what do you think makes 00:01:20.459 --> 00:01:25.019 this so hard to talk about? Probably just our 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:28.060 attitude towards it in general as a society. 00:01:29.420 --> 00:01:33.579 You're either very for it and very brazen, just 00:01:33.579 --> 00:01:37.620 go out and hook up every day of the week. Or 00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:41.140 you're very prudish about it, almost, is what 00:01:41.140 --> 00:01:43.959 it feels like. So then with everyone in the middle 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.109 ground of like... I don't know. It's just whatever. 00:01:46.469 --> 00:01:49.469 Then they feel uncomfortable because there's 00:01:49.469 --> 00:01:51.950 those extremist sides, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. It 00:01:51.950 --> 00:01:53.950 feels like we have to like be on one side or 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:55.590 the other side, but actually most of us are in 00:01:55.590 --> 00:01:57.409 the middle and just don't know what to say. Yeah. 00:01:57.670 --> 00:02:02.189 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'd also say, you know, I mean, 00:02:02.209 --> 00:02:04.170 on the one hand, I completely agree with Joanna 00:02:04.170 --> 00:02:07.489 here. I think that there are so many different 00:02:07.489 --> 00:02:10.150 ways of thinking about it, and some of them are 00:02:10.150 --> 00:02:12.449 very fraught, right? And so you tend to avoid 00:02:12.449 --> 00:02:15.349 a conversation. But on a more healthy scale, 00:02:15.490 --> 00:02:20.449 too, I also think that sexuality, right, is very 00:02:20.449 --> 00:02:24.830 intimate. very personal, chances of you just 00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:27.590 speaking openly about it with somebody who isn't 00:02:27.590 --> 00:02:30.750 a long -standing friend or a close family member 00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:35.400 are slim. So even in that just the ordinary sense 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.180 in which sexuality is very personal and private, 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.979 like you tend to just avoid the conversation. 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.340 Sure. Yeah. And that is, in a sense, somewhat 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:46.539 natural as well. Sure. Yeah. I think we just 00:02:46.539 --> 00:02:52.280 don't talk about sex. Right. Even the healthy 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:56.110 and appropriate. sexual part of who we are as 00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:59.729 humans. It's just awkward just to talk about 00:02:59.729 --> 00:03:02.770 it even in a positive way. It's also kind of 00:03:02.770 --> 00:03:06.620 gross when you think about it. Like, it's kind 00:03:06.620 --> 00:03:08.360 of gross to talk about. I mean, you don't have 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:10.360 to talk about the weird details, I guess. But 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:13.240 like, yeah. And that sort of points to how intimate 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:15.840 it is, right? And how private it is. And so then 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.500 maybe others don't want to hear about that level 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:21.560 of intimacy with you. And so that ends up being 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.879 a place where we are silent. We give up the opportunities 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.500 to speak in healthy ways. I think that comes 00:03:27.500 --> 00:03:30.060 with the danger of not sometimes addressing it. 00:03:30.099 --> 00:03:33.259 Then it just feels like it's always related to 00:03:33.259 --> 00:03:35.780 some amount of shame or, you know. And that's 00:03:35.780 --> 00:03:39.280 not the case in so many ways. It doesn't have 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:41.319 to be. It doesn't have to be. Yes, you're right. 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:46.379 It doesn't have to be. Yeah, for sure. It's hard 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:48.340 to talk about, but I think for the purpose of 00:03:48.340 --> 00:03:49.819 this conversation, it would be helpful for us 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:53.219 to define lust so that we know what it is that 00:03:53.219 --> 00:03:55.860 we're talking about. So one definition that I 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:58.560 read that actually aligns closely with what Rob 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:02.259 was saying in the sermon was that lust is treating 00:04:02.259 --> 00:04:05.680 people as objects for our own pleasure. So we're 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.460 sort of denying the humanity of another person 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:12.060 and they're just becoming a thing. that gives 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:14.860 us some sort of pleasure. And that pleasure might 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:18.180 happen just in our mind, or it might happen sort 00:04:18.180 --> 00:04:23.399 of through physical actions. And just to unpack 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:26.100 that a little bit, which also came out in Rob's 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.939 sermon, was the sense that on the one hand, you 00:04:28.939 --> 00:04:31.120 reduce the full humanity of the other person, 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:34.480 right? But by also... only thinking about your 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:37.620 own pleasure you reduce the full humanity of 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:41.839 yourself in relationship like sexuality or sex 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:46.139 is inherently relational right like you can it's 00:04:46.139 --> 00:04:49.199 not just like another appetite you can eat a 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.540 meal alone yeah right you can't have you necessarily 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:56.879 sex although like it's inherently relational 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.500 i think i think i think you have to simulate 00:05:00.500 --> 00:05:03.420 something else what i mean if you're gonna do 00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:07.360 anyway let's let's let's move away from the awkwardness 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.220 but what i'm saying is that well what i am saying 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:13.639 is that that inherent relationality is the way 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.759 at least by the bible talks about you know people 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:22.339 in relationship and so um to only reduce it to 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:24.779 the set your own sensation is also not bringing 00:05:24.779 --> 00:05:27.660 your whole self into relationship and that can 00:05:27.660 --> 00:05:30.850 be why I think you can objectify others, you 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:32.949 can reduce yourself, the humanity of the other 00:05:32.949 --> 00:05:34.850 person is reduced, the humanity of yourself is 00:05:34.850 --> 00:05:37.350 reduced, and all of that seems to take place 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:42.689 when we're talking about lust. Yeah, thanks to 00:05:42.689 --> 00:05:47.089 her for saying that, because I think a very similar 00:05:47.089 --> 00:05:50.610 kind of idea around that. For me, personally, 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.939 I know when I'm in a state of lust, right? I 00:05:57.939 --> 00:06:00.459 mean, I just have a sense of that. I might not 00:06:00.459 --> 00:06:05.160 be able to define it, you know, but I just kind 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.040 of know when it's happening. And I think, but 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.879 it's really helpful to be able to. kind of spend 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:13.560 some time thinking about it and, um, and just 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.060 kind of knowing yourself more around that. And 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:18.180 I think when I did, when I have thought about 00:06:18.180 --> 00:06:21.620 it, um, it's for me, it's really about relationship 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:23.160 and you, that's exactly what you talked about 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.939 was relationship and lust. damages and erodes 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:30.420 relationship. Your relation to yourself, right? 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.300 I mean, you become disassociated with yourself 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:37.899 when lust takes a priority over your life. It's 00:06:37.899 --> 00:06:41.699 no longer healthy sexuality, and it's a preoccupying 00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:45.180 desire that's inappropriate, illicit, and it 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:49.560 destroys self. And I think also it destroys your 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:51.560 relationships with other people, right? It destroys 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:53.839 your relationships with other people that you're 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:58.290 engaged in lust. with, and ultimately it destroys 00:06:58.290 --> 00:07:02.149 your ability to be in relationship with everyone 00:07:02.149 --> 00:07:05.329 else, right? Because that sense of everyone is 00:07:05.329 --> 00:07:08.829 an object of your own desire. You can't care 00:07:08.829 --> 00:07:14.149 and love for someone who is an object. And so 00:07:14.149 --> 00:07:16.209 that's, for me, it's a lot about relationship. 00:07:16.629 --> 00:07:21.660 Yeah, yeah, for sure. So we are talking about 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:25.319 lust primarily in terms of sexual desire, but 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:28.079 I think it's fair to sort of point out that in 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.040 our culture, in our vocabulary, we also talk 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:33.199 about lust for other things sometimes, right? 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.279 So we'll talk about lust for power. That's the 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:37.560 first one that comes to mind. Are there other 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:40.699 things that come to mind for folks when we think 00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:44.129 of lust? I mean, that is the one that really 00:07:44.129 --> 00:07:46.230 first comes to mind because, you know, it's that 00:07:46.230 --> 00:07:50.829 intensity of desire for something quite powerful. 00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:54.329 Right. And so, you know, and so, yeah, that is 00:07:54.329 --> 00:07:55.889 the first one. You can use lust in a different 00:07:55.889 --> 00:07:58.569 way. Lust for pleasure is another one. Sure. 00:07:58.810 --> 00:08:01.759 Lust for... any number of things. But I mean, 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:04.240 most of the time when you think about lust or 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.000 when people are talking about lust, it's the 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.019 sexual nature. And, and Rob said in the sermon 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:11.199 today that yes, there are other things you can 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.699 lust for lust after, but when it comes to the 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:16.459 seven deadly sins, sorry, folks, we're talking 00:08:16.459 --> 00:08:23.800 about sex. Yes. Okay. So is there something about 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.959 our current sort of North American Western culture 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:32.039 that makes. lust or sexuality more of a thing 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.399 than it has been in other times and at other 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.200 moments. It just seems to be really in your face, 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.759 I guess. I don't know. It's pretty normalized, 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.720 I feel like. Even the way that people talk to 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.379 each other, just the way you can compliment someone, 00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:52.100 I guess. You can call them beautiful or intelligent 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:56.860 or anything actually nice. Or you can say that 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:02.480 Their ass is nice. You can say that? Yeah, yeah. 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:04.500 And I feel like that's kind of what... I'm not 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:07.259 going to say that. I feel like that's kind of 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:12.100 how people compliment sometimes is probably like 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:15.340 that. Or just in conversation with other people. 00:09:16.460 --> 00:09:19.220 Just derogatory language, I guess. It's just 00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:21.399 normalized. It's just how people talk amongst 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.799 each other for some certain settings. Yes. Maybe 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:30.480 in your generation more than Bill's. Maybe. Maybe 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:36.120 I used to be able to say that. It is normalized, 00:09:36.259 --> 00:09:39.860 for sure. But I think we're also in a very hyper 00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:43.519 -sexualized culture where not only is it normal, 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:47.580 but it is just in your face. All the time. And 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:51.620 I mean, I can't open, you know, Facebook or social 00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:54.120 media and stuff without having to scroll past, 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:58.379 you know. you know, what is potentially kind 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:01.159 of inappropriate, uh, you know, videos or, or 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:04.100 whatever, you know, these TikTok things or, and, 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:07.039 uh, and it's, uh, but even, even not even beyond 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:09.279 social media, just in our, in our, in our, in 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.019 advertising. And it just seemed like sex sells, 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:14.259 right? I mean, that's, it's not, that's like 00:10:14.259 --> 00:10:17.419 advertising one -on -one the, uh, the, uh, and 00:10:17.419 --> 00:10:20.360 so it's always, it's always being used to say, 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.100 you know, that, um, you know, this, this is the 00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:24.940 way to go. This is the better life, you know? 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:32.500 And it's accepted and normalized and it erodes 00:10:32.500 --> 00:10:36.740 a lot of the healthy attitudes or healthy character 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:39.639 that we need to have as a society. It's constantly, 00:10:39.820 --> 00:10:42.100 like I'm even thinking of Met Gala, you know, 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:45.480 costumes sometimes, right? Like it's just everywhere. 00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:50.159 And it's also sort of reframed as body positivity 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.029 very often. And on the one hand, The whole notion 00:10:54.029 --> 00:10:56.230 of body positivity is meant to move away from 00:10:56.230 --> 00:10:58.450 that language of shame. Right. But on the other 00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:02.429 hand, it is putting itself up completely as sexual 00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:08.230 in isolation of relationship. Right. And so you've 00:11:08.230 --> 00:11:11.250 got, you know, I'm proud of my body and I will 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:13.570 flaunt it sexually. Right. You know, and that's 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:16.950 different from I'm happy or grateful or proud 00:11:16.950 --> 00:11:19.169 or, you know, all of the healthy ways you can 00:11:19.169 --> 00:11:23.419 say I've received my body. It's God's gift. And 00:11:23.419 --> 00:11:27.320 there are so many ways to think about our bodies 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.960 in a way that centers our dignity without necessarily 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.740 thinking I have to flaunt sexuality. And I think 00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:39.299 our culture sort of slips down that way, that 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:44.259 route, really easily. So, yeah, it's everywhere. 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.379 It's in every television show, every movie. I 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:50.399 mean, one sociologist called it the pornification 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:53.240 of popular culture. Right. Right. Like it's just 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:57.100 out there all the time. It's actually hard to 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:00.460 to have healthy visions when it's just always 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:04.740 in your face. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like what. 00:12:05.699 --> 00:12:08.740 And I struggle with the most, maybe not the most, 00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:10.519 but one of the things that I struggle with is 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.519 the way that like sex and sexuality is sort of 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.159 positioned as like the ultimate good. Right. 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:19.460 As like, if you just like have the right partner 00:12:19.460 --> 00:12:21.879 and they look the right way and you engage in 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.360 the right acts, you will be the happiest that 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.220 you could ever be in your life. Right. And that's 00:12:27.220 --> 00:12:31.669 just like not. True. Nope. And not helpful. No, 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:33.950 it's not helpful. And the flip side of that is 00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:37.149 if you don't have that, all of that, you are 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:42.009 incomplete, lacking, you know, and if you as 00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:44.509 a Christian go down that route, you have no way 00:12:44.509 --> 00:12:47.990 to contemplate Jesus and the disciples, right? 00:12:48.070 --> 00:12:50.769 Like, you know, you'd literally have to say without 00:12:50.769 --> 00:12:54.070 a happy family life, Jesus was lacking something 00:12:54.070 --> 00:12:57.100 or the disciples were lacking something. And 00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:01.399 so there is a, you know, I think, so it gets 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.840 very difficult in this culture which posits sex 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:09.259 as ultimate fulfillment, as a space of your fulfillment 00:13:09.259 --> 00:13:12.840 to actually have a healthy sense of wholeness 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:17.740 outside of, you know, without necessarily going 00:13:17.740 --> 00:13:20.379 down that route. I agree. I think we're created 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:23.659 to be sexual beings and there's a very healthy... 00:13:24.220 --> 00:13:26.980 sense of sexuality that is part of who we are 00:13:26.980 --> 00:13:29.919 and makes up who we are. But I don't think that 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.419 necessarily means that we have to have sex. No. 00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:35.419 Right. Or that, you know, that there's, so I, 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:38.500 it'd be interesting to kind of, uh, think more 00:13:38.500 --> 00:13:41.480 about, uh, what it, what it means to be a healthy 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.740 sexual human being. Um, and, um, and you know, 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:47.419 what that would look like in different situations. 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.559 Cause it doesn't mean, you know, you're not lacking 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.899 if you're not actually doing the act. I mean, 00:13:52.899 --> 00:13:57.259 you are still a sexual being and you can be healthy 00:13:57.259 --> 00:14:01.980 in your life one way or the other, I think. Absolutely. 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:07.100 So in order to combat this problem of lust, I 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:09.259 mean, Christian culture for a long time has recognized 00:14:09.259 --> 00:14:12.759 that this is a problem. And so they've kind of 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.500 swung in the other direction to emphasize sexual 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:20.299 purity. And in some cases, I think that is potentially 00:14:20.299 --> 00:14:23.470 helpful. You know, it encourages people to behave 00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:26.309 in particular ways that we might think of as 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:28.409 more desirable, you know, waiting until marriage 00:14:28.409 --> 00:14:32.309 to have sex. But I think it also creates a number 00:14:32.309 --> 00:14:36.090 of other problems. Yeah. So just in your own 00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:38.409 experiences and in sort of ways that you've thought 00:14:38.409 --> 00:14:40.629 about this, how does this problem of emphasizing 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:43.730 sexual purity, like what challenges does that 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:49.710 create? Oh. So I think part of the problem with 00:14:49.710 --> 00:14:56.210 the purity culture element of that Christian 00:14:56.210 --> 00:15:02.590 ethos is that it's reductive, right? First of 00:15:02.590 --> 00:15:06.529 all, it thinks about... sexual abstinence as 00:15:06.529 --> 00:15:09.330 pure and with the implication without ever actually 00:15:09.330 --> 00:15:11.590 saying it out that maybe once you have sex there's 00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:14.909 the issue of purity disappears somehow less pure 00:15:14.909 --> 00:15:17.570 you know less pure somehow it's just odd when 00:15:17.570 --> 00:15:20.350 you think about the positive nature of sex within 00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:23.490 the the fact that god created it right and so 00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:26.870 that notion that you're pure by some kind of 00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:30.309 behavior right as opposed to and then somehow 00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:32.909 the issue goes away and just once you're married 00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:36.899 is is an odd dichotomy. It feels so strange. 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.360 The language of purity in the Bible, I think, 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.860 has been sort of misused in that case. Like, 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:44.779 God makes us pure because He washes away all 00:15:44.779 --> 00:15:47.919 our sins. It's not just in the area of sexuality, 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:52.620 right? This means that it's an ongoing... you 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.179 know, turning to Jesus, receiving his grace and 00:15:56.179 --> 00:15:58.919 forgiveness, being washed, you know, having your 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:00.879 sins washed away. Those are things that happen 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.320 throughout your life, within your marriage, outside 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.179 your marriage, every area. And so, you know, 00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:09.860 to actually say that the word pure only applies 00:16:09.860 --> 00:16:14.940 to this kind of sex, you know, area of sexuality 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:18.159 is just very reductive. And it's not helpful. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.000 It's not helpful for people to recognize. that 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.299 battles with lust, battles with unhealthy relationships 00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:28.200 are going to be ongoing, whether you're married, 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:32.360 when you are married, right? And so it's really 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.320 reductive about the possibilities of healthy, 00:16:35.419 --> 00:16:38.340 ongoing relationships and can leave people really 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:41.639 confused. Then when, you know, if the whole ethos 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.559 is... You're pure and wonderful if you abstain 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.679 before marriage. And then anything goes in marriage. 00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:48.600 And then marriage doesn't work out that way. 00:16:48.820 --> 00:16:51.440 It's really confusing. Yeah, yeah. And then forget 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.840 about after marriage. Like post -marriage. Right. 00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:56.820 If a marriage breaks up. Anything goes. Anything 00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:59.120 goes. Right. So you're talking about like if 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.159 a marriage breaks up, right? Yeah, that's right. 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:05.079 What happens? I was good. I was a good boy before 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.819 I got married. And I was a good boy during my 00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:09.400 marriage. And unfortunately, my marriage broke 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.230 up. But now post -marriage. Yeah, the issue of 00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:14.349 purity is gone. Exactly. I can do whatever I 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:16.170 want. And I'm like, what? There's no question 00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:18.490 of purity anymore after that because it's being 00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:20.769 only linked to abstinence, which is not at all 00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:24.509 sort of, you know, that wholesome view of sin 00:17:24.509 --> 00:17:27.809 and redemption that is emerging. I think part 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:30.190 of the problem with purity culture is that it's 00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:32.809 trying to deal with just one problem, one issue. 00:17:34.910 --> 00:17:37.930 And it elevates that one issue. Yes, in absence 00:17:37.930 --> 00:17:40.690 or not considering anything else. And so, I mean, 00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:44.789 it is trying to respond to a real pain that comes 00:17:44.789 --> 00:17:48.950 out of, you know, when people get kind of sucked 00:17:48.950 --> 00:17:52.349 into lust or they're doing things that they shouldn't 00:17:52.349 --> 00:17:56.049 do. It does damage us. It does hurt us and hurt 00:17:56.049 --> 00:17:58.809 others. And so they want to deal with that. But 00:17:58.809 --> 00:18:01.269 it's the pendulum swing in the other direction, 00:18:01.390 --> 00:18:06.410 you know, that in itself. causes pain and and 00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:09.809 uh dissociates people from their faith and and 00:18:09.809 --> 00:18:13.589 uh and is maybe even the this the the reason 00:18:13.589 --> 00:18:16.710 that uh they feel shame or that shame just kind 00:18:16.710 --> 00:18:19.930 of sticks to them for so long and they just like 00:18:19.930 --> 00:18:22.640 oh well i was supposed to be poor But because 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:25.380 I wasn't pure, then now I can't go to church 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:29.059 now. I can't hang out with my friends anymore 00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:32.680 because they're pure and I'm not. And then what's, 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.480 you know, with the purity thing, why is it just... 00:18:35.789 --> 00:18:38.789 You know, sex. There's so many other things that 00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:40.789 we, I mean, we're talking about six other deadly 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:43.670 sins. And there's other things beyond that, right, 00:18:43.750 --> 00:18:47.750 that just cause us to be impure. It's not just 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.930 sex. Right. So what about all those things? And 00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:56.369 so what's the answer? Yeah. And Johanna, you 00:18:56.369 --> 00:18:58.509 were telling me before, you know, that it creates 00:18:58.509 --> 00:19:00.230 some differences between like the way that we 00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:02.920 treat. women and the way that we treat men and 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:04.960 yeah so i wonder if you can reflect on that a 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.319 little bit more um i mean i guess purity culture 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:12.279 like it's kind of enforced unequally um because 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.960 women are encouraged to you know be chaste and 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.619 modest for the most part and men from what i've 00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:23.539 observed not as much if at all it's more of like 00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:28.160 you know go get him tiger i don't know what you 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.980 say to your bro before they go out and like get 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:34.700 some I don't know why are you looking at me oh 00:19:34.700 --> 00:19:42.480 my gosh but yeah like it's kind of like that's 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.220 what I say to all my bros before they go out 00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:49.059 yeah well like it's unfair how it's like um like 00:19:49.059 --> 00:19:52.210 it's not proportional at all and so you encourage 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:54.490 the women to be chased and you encourage the 00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:58.109 men to chase and it just kind of like leads to 00:19:58.109 --> 00:20:02.450 an unhealthy kind of culture of like i think 00:20:02.450 --> 00:20:04.269 the word you used was rape culture yeah right 00:20:04.269 --> 00:20:07.369 it creates this dynamic where yeah consensual 00:20:07.369 --> 00:20:10.170 sex is hard to have because women always have 00:20:10.170 --> 00:20:12.890 to say no and men always have to say yes yeah 00:20:12.890 --> 00:20:14.730 because it's presumed that men are inherently 00:20:14.730 --> 00:20:18.589 more sexual right yeah which yeah yeah it creates 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:21.809 this like Yeah, power imbalance. Yeah, and I 00:20:21.809 --> 00:20:23.769 just don't think that's fair, I guess. Yeah, 00:20:23.809 --> 00:20:27.970 for sure. It's not fair. But can you say that 00:20:27.970 --> 00:20:30.930 phrase again? Because I love it. I don't like 00:20:30.930 --> 00:20:36.309 it, but I love it. I'm being chased. uh you encourage 00:20:36.309 --> 00:20:40.109 women to be chased chased yeah and then you encourage 00:20:40.109 --> 00:20:43.890 men to chase to chase oh my gosh i that's that's 00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:46.329 a great turn of phrase that just kind of nails 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.809 that whole situation so thank you thank you for 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:52.349 that yeah so we've talked about all of these 00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:55.809 problems all of these less than helpful ways 00:20:55.809 --> 00:20:58.769 to talk about sexuality and lust so what are 00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:02.339 some helpful ways? What's a way forward to talk 00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:04.119 about this? Because we do need to talk about 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:08.420 it. Yeah. So how do we do that? Well, yeah, I 00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:12.960 think you need to speak about sexuality as good 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.720 in that long committed relationship, right? Part 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.460 of the issue with purity culture is how much 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:19.799 it just pretended the relationship itself was 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.759 not the problem. It was sex that was the issue 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:27.039 alone. But, you know, to have a positive, like 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.000 there is a good reason to wait until marriage. 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.039 Right. For sex. And that reason has to do with 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.019 the fact that biblically, the coming together 00:21:36.019 --> 00:21:39.460 of two people sexually creates a union that is 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:42.680 meant to be permanent. Right. And the other thing. 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.440 So that's one element of it. And the other element 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.740 of it is that it is God who created marriage. 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.920 And so he is part of this story of you and someone 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.779 out of two people coming together. Right. And 00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:59.049 so when. So as you think about his creation of 00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:01.029 sex, his creation of marriage, his creation of 00:22:01.029 --> 00:22:04.009 bringing two people together. Right. You're not 00:22:04.009 --> 00:22:07.410 just two people doing it on just a purely human 00:22:07.410 --> 00:22:10.549 plane. Right. God's involved there. And so marriage 00:22:10.549 --> 00:22:15.150 begins to be something that, you know, it integrates 00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:18.009 all of it. And which is why sex should occur 00:22:18.009 --> 00:22:21.549 within that context. Right. Right. Yeah. So there 00:22:21.549 --> 00:22:25.339 are really good reasons for. articulating that 00:22:25.339 --> 00:22:28.140 sex within marriage right the whole person coming 00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:30.460 into relationship with another whole person in 00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:32.940 relation to what God has created right yeah and 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:35.779 I like that so the distinction you're sort of 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:37.680 making there because in some ways you know talking 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.210 about sex inside of marriage does seem to mirror 00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:43.150 purity culture. It does. But what you're sort 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:44.970 of saying is like, it's actually in this context 00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:48.009 of whole life. Yes. Right? It's not just in this 00:22:48.009 --> 00:22:50.930 context of sex inside of marriage because it's 00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:54.150 safer and it's meeting these certain rules. It's 00:22:54.150 --> 00:22:56.769 no sex inside of marriage because... It's in 00:22:56.769 --> 00:22:59.470 the context of like committed relationship. It's 00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:02.230 in the context of... Loving, faithful, sacrificial. 00:23:02.289 --> 00:23:05.269 Right. And you're making the point that not all 00:23:05.269 --> 00:23:07.190 marriages are committed relationships. Sure. 00:23:07.289 --> 00:23:11.210 Right. So the important thing is the committed 00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:14.839 relationship. And in the context of marriage, 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.740 when that is a committed relationship, that all 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:19.640 works. Right. A healthy, committed relationship 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:21.980 where you're doing all of life together. So you 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:24.519 can't just say marriage. Sure. Right. Because 00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:26.799 that's not a good experience for a lot of people. 00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:28.859 Right. It hasn't turned out well for a lot of 00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:32.099 people. So it's not a good. idea or you know 00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.740 a good example sure but what we're trying to 00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:38.019 say is that marriage in a committed healthy relationship 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:40.420 where two people love each other and care for 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:42.359 each other and they're committed to one another 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.799 right yeah and it's something you grow into even 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.579 within marriage right with sex being very much 00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:51.019 that sort of coming together intentionally so 00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:55.079 you know So it doesn't pretend like everything's 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.660 going to be fine just because you said some words 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.640 at an altar. It's that that is the ideal that 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.519 we need very much God to be holding us as we 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.740 go forward. And sex is part of that story, right? 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:12.900 Hence, so I think the church really needs to 00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:16.900 articulate that healthy vision for us to make 00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:22.069 sense of why. maybe sex outside of marriage isn't 00:24:22.069 --> 00:24:25.630 great, why hookup culture isn't great, why porn 00:24:25.630 --> 00:24:29.309 isn't great, right? You have to create that beautiful 00:24:29.309 --> 00:24:33.589 God -created vision. Then you can recognize easier 00:24:33.589 --> 00:24:36.049 where the distortions lie. But if you're not 00:24:36.049 --> 00:24:38.130 going to articulate it, it just feels like a 00:24:38.130 --> 00:24:41.329 whole lot of nonsensical rules and very constraining 00:24:41.329 --> 00:24:45.630 and limited, right? And so that would be perhaps 00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:48.990 a place to start. Yeah. What's the goodness here? 00:24:49.089 --> 00:24:51.849 So I would say we need to start even before that, 00:24:51.890 --> 00:24:54.410 because if you are lucky, blessed enough to have 00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:56.529 a partner where you can figure that stuff out 00:24:56.529 --> 00:24:59.609 with, that's great. But what about as a single 00:24:59.609 --> 00:25:02.970 person or a young person before marriage or a 00:25:02.970 --> 00:25:05.750 single person who goes through life unmarried? 00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:08.650 Yeah. Like what is what is a healthy sexual? 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:13.420 understanding of yourself. I think that's really 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:16.920 important and maybe even necessary in order to 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.259 find that other person who you can then partner 00:25:20.259 --> 00:25:23.660 with and share that intimacy with and a committed 00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:28.059 relationship, right? But I think lust, we can 00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:32.740 overcome lust, single or married, by first looking 00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:35.579 at ourselves, right? We need a holistic, healthy 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:40.049 sense of sexualities for ourself and a basic 00:25:40.049 --> 00:25:44.890 respect and regard for everyone else. I think 00:25:44.890 --> 00:25:46.890 both those things are really important. We need 00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:50.869 to understand ourselves and we need to care and 00:25:50.869 --> 00:25:55.210 respect other people. So we need to look inside 00:25:55.210 --> 00:26:00.549 and develop that character, you know, a discipline 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:04.049 of... It's like what Rob said in the sermon is 00:26:04.049 --> 00:26:07.190 ahead of time, figure out what... what sex means 00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:09.730 to you, figure out what, you know, what that, 00:26:09.769 --> 00:26:13.890 what that relationship is. And the, so that. 00:26:14.349 --> 00:26:17.250 when something happens, you know, you, you, uh, 00:26:17.470 --> 00:26:19.670 uh, you already know where you stand, right? 00:26:19.809 --> 00:26:23.390 What you believe, uh, that is so, uh, that is 00:26:23.390 --> 00:26:25.589 so important. That's so crucial because in the, 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:28.069 you know, and, and Rob said in, in the back of 00:26:28.069 --> 00:26:31.150 a, of a, a backseat of a steamy vehicle, you 00:26:31.150 --> 00:26:32.750 know, maybe you're not, that's not the place 00:26:32.750 --> 00:26:35.890 to be thinking your, your theology of sex is, 00:26:35.910 --> 00:26:39.950 uh, and the, um, and, uh, and then the, uh, so 00:26:39.950 --> 00:26:42.150 yeah, we need to look inside. And then I think, 00:26:42.170 --> 00:26:44.130 uh, I think also we need to, We need to look 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.630 outside and just understand the culture that 00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:53.190 we're in and how it affects us. Right. And and 00:26:53.190 --> 00:26:56.170 just and that's part of what I've said about 00:26:56.170 --> 00:26:58.109 respecting other people, because I think when 00:26:58.109 --> 00:27:01.799 you. And why a relationship is so important. 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:07.160 Because if you care for other people, if you 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.039 know other people, if you're in a relationship 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.759 with other people, it's really hard to then begin 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:17.319 to think of them as an object. Right? And so 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:22.269 one of the things that I say to guys is... Is 00:27:22.269 --> 00:27:24.670 get to be in relationship with people, get to 00:27:24.670 --> 00:27:27.309 know people like that. And that whether we're 00:27:27.309 --> 00:27:29.769 talking about, you know, sexual objects or not, 00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:35.410 that, you know, getting to know is is a way to 00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:37.880 humanize. people. Right. I mean, you've seen, 00:27:37.900 --> 00:27:39.680 you've seen in the movies a little off topic, 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.539 but you've seen in the movies where, you know, 00:27:41.539 --> 00:27:43.579 someone has a gun to the head of a main character 00:27:43.579 --> 00:27:45.640 or some other character. And then that person 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.720 says, well, you know, my name's John and I, you 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.619 know, and I, and I have, you know, I have kids 00:27:50.619 --> 00:27:52.900 and I have, what are they trying to do? They're 00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:55.079 establishing a relationship with that person, 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.839 building a rapport, building a connection so 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.180 that the person is less likely to kill, shoot 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:04.099 and kill them. Right. And so similarly, you know, 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:07.619 in, in this sexual context of lust, right. When, 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:11.039 when we, uh, when, when we get to know the person, 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:16.039 we're less likely to, to feel lust or, uh, towards 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.460 that person. And I mean, I'm not saying it won't 00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:20.859 happen. It can't happen, but I just, that, that, 00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:23.319 that relationship developing of that relationship 00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:27.000 rapport and the respect, um, from person to person 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.829 that that develops makes it less likely. To then 00:28:29.829 --> 00:28:33.529 pull the trigger, right? And feel lust or act 00:28:33.529 --> 00:28:36.529 lustily, you know, towards that person. Yeah. 00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:40.430 So the last thing I would just say there is like, 00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:44.210 we talk about... lust and sexual sin as if they're 00:28:44.210 --> 00:28:46.190 like the worst of all the sins. I think you sort 00:28:46.190 --> 00:28:48.430 of alluded to this earlier. And so I would just 00:28:48.430 --> 00:28:51.690 say we need to emphasize grace. We need to recognize 00:28:51.690 --> 00:28:54.549 that lust, that sexual sin is not an unforgivable 00:28:54.549 --> 00:28:57.210 sin, right? It's something that falls within 00:28:57.210 --> 00:29:00.210 that context of grace. In the last couple minutes, 00:29:00.529 --> 00:29:03.029 I want us to just think about, okay, so that's 00:29:03.029 --> 00:29:05.390 a sort of general framework. What are some really 00:29:05.390 --> 00:29:08.650 practical things that we can do if we find ourselves 00:29:08.650 --> 00:29:11.519 struggling with lust or even just living? this 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.599 culture of hypersexualization. So we've been 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.680 doing this fasting course here. And that's been, 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:21.579 fasting is a practice that happens throughout 00:29:21.579 --> 00:29:23.799 Lent, you know, giving up food or giving up other 00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:26.099 things as a way of sort of focusing our hearts 00:29:26.099 --> 00:29:29.259 on God. But John Mark Comer, who leads this series, 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:31.880 one of the things that he says is that whenever 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.839 he's sort of counseling someone who is struggling 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.539 with sexual sin, he will encourage them to fast 00:29:37.539 --> 00:29:41.559 from food. Wow. Okay. As a way of training your 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.700 body and your mind to say, I don't need to give 00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:48.900 into every bodily desire and pleasure. Wow. Right. 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:51.599 That he makes that, that connection. So I thought 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.220 that was really interesting. Yeah. I saw that 00:29:54.220 --> 00:29:57.180 Rob also made the connection between lust and 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.099 like disordered eating. And it made me think 00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:03.960 of like, I guess a solution, which would be like. 00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:06.690 okay so you know how some people will go on a 00:30:06.690 --> 00:30:09.329 diet and they'll think of like chocolate and 00:30:09.329 --> 00:30:12.069 pizza and candy yeah while they're on the diet 00:30:12.069 --> 00:30:15.069 yeah yeah and then they'll think of like kale 00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:18.349 smoothies is good and so that's like prescribing 00:30:18.349 --> 00:30:22.009 like morality onto food it's just food versus 00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:25.470 like I think you could also say that for um sex 00:30:25.470 --> 00:30:28.769 is that like it's just it's not it doesn't make 00:30:28.769 --> 00:30:31.750 you a bad person or a good person to engage in 00:30:31.750 --> 00:30:34.869 sex and I feel like if we could think of that, 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:37.009 then it would make people feel more comfortable. 00:30:37.069 --> 00:30:39.470 Right. It's all about the context, right? Cake 00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:42.009 is good sometimes. If you have cake all day, 00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:44.250 every day, maybe that's a problem. Yeah. That's 00:30:44.250 --> 00:30:47.549 a problem? Yeah. Okay. Other practical practices. 00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:50.230 I wanted to suggest that, and I've done this 00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:54.230 in the past for myself, and is an accountability 00:30:54.230 --> 00:30:57.269 partner. Yeah. It's just making a commitment 00:30:57.269 --> 00:31:00.430 with one other, well, in my case, it was another 00:31:00.430 --> 00:31:02.329 guy. I would just suggest that guy, guy, and 00:31:02.329 --> 00:31:05.880 female. girl, girl, guy, something is more appropriate 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.480 for this particular kind of accountability partnership. 00:31:08.779 --> 00:31:12.140 Uh, but the, um, uh, so, you know, I've over 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:14.480 the years, I've had various friends who I've 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.420 committed to, to, uh, kind of keep each other 00:31:17.420 --> 00:31:20.319 accountable, uh, to, to this kind of thing. And, 00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:22.960 um, I just, if I can just end with a verse, cause 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:24.700 I think there's, there's a verse that, uh, that 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:27.880 really kind of, um, uh, it speaks to this and 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:31.700 it's Romans 12 too. And it says, Do not conform 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.119 to the pattern of this world, but be transformed 00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.099 by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be 00:31:37.099 --> 00:31:39.440 able to test and approve what God's will is, 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:42.849 his good. pleasing and perfect will and I think 00:31:42.849 --> 00:31:45.710 that in terms of practical ways to respond to 00:31:45.710 --> 00:31:48.829 this and it's the warning is don't conform to 00:31:48.829 --> 00:31:50.529 the pattern of this world don't get sucked into 00:31:50.529 --> 00:31:53.450 the hyper sexualized culture right but instead 00:31:53.450 --> 00:31:57.730 transform your heart and your mind according 00:31:57.730 --> 00:32:01.529 to the will of God and just and that that and 00:32:01.529 --> 00:32:05.309 then that becomes what your desire and your will 00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:11.230 is you your your own desires come into closer 00:32:11.230 --> 00:32:14.910 alignment with what God wants for us, for ourselves 00:32:14.910 --> 00:32:18.289 and for others and the world. And I think if 00:32:18.289 --> 00:32:21.990 we can start to practice this, then I think we've 00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:25.049 got it. Yeah. Well, thank you, Bill, so much 00:32:25.049 --> 00:32:27.849 for that. And thank you for listening to us this 00:32:27.849 --> 00:32:30.450 week on Trinity Talks. I hope that you found 00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:33.490 some helpful tidbits and things to take away. 00:32:33.589 --> 00:32:35.990 And we'd love to hear from you as well. We'll 00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:36.750 see you again next week.