WEBVTT 00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:06.660 Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:09.679 of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana. 00:00:10.099 --> 00:00:13.519 My name is Bill. And I'm Johanna. And we are 00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:16.320 here to continue our conversation about sin, 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:19.320 but very specifically today we are talking about 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:24.739 greed. And sometimes we don't think about greed, 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:29.079 like it's become so normalized, I think. Yeah, 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.299 it's one of those things that, yeah, we just 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.429 don't, we don't think about greed as something 00:00:36.429 --> 00:00:38.609 that's you know a terrible thing right because 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:41.829 it's we all need stuff so we just we just keep 00:00:41.829 --> 00:00:45.090 accumulating stuff yeah yeah i think what uh 00:00:45.090 --> 00:00:47.310 of all the seven deadly sins greed might be the 00:00:47.310 --> 00:00:50.070 one you don't see coming yeah yeah i think we 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:53.250 that's uh that's that's that makes it even more 00:00:53.250 --> 00:00:57.009 difficult to to identify yeah and i think that 00:00:57.009 --> 00:00:59.979 you don't see it coming when you consider yourself 00:00:59.979 --> 00:01:03.579 middle class, right? We think of like the billionaires 00:01:03.579 --> 00:01:05.900 of the world and go, why do they need even more 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:08.819 and more? Why do they act the way they do? And 00:01:08.819 --> 00:01:10.700 so it's always somebody else who's greedy. So 00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:12.780 it's not, I feel like we have a culture in which 00:01:13.129 --> 00:01:16.209 we can recognize greed in everybody, in other 00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:19.810 people, a particular kinds of people. It's the 00:01:19.810 --> 00:01:22.230 ways in which we are implicated that's so hard 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:26.650 to disentangle. And as Rob said in the sermon, 00:01:26.890 --> 00:01:30.890 it's naturalized in us, in our culture. So we 00:01:30.890 --> 00:01:33.870 don't see it, we just think it's normal and we 00:01:33.870 --> 00:01:36.450 think it's just part of what we're supposed to 00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:40.609 do and what's acceptable in our culture and in 00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:45.250 our community. Yeah, so that being said, if it's 00:01:45.250 --> 00:01:46.709 sort of normalized, I think it would be helpful 00:01:46.709 --> 00:01:49.670 for us to sort of have a definition of what is 00:01:49.670 --> 00:01:52.670 this thing that we're talking about. So yeah, 00:01:52.730 --> 00:01:55.530 what is greed? What does it look like? How do 00:01:55.530 --> 00:02:00.230 we know it when we see it? Johanna, what do you 00:02:00.230 --> 00:02:03.750 think? I feel like greed is probably when you 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:06.510 already have enough of something, but you still 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:09.289 have that like really deep want for more of it. 00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:12.400 Okay, yeah. Yeah, so it's not just, it's like 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.159 we have the stuff, but we want more stuff. Yeah. 00:02:15.259 --> 00:02:17.120 Yeah. Like it's never enough. Like you're just 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.060 constantly chasing after it. Yeah. Yeah. Hamster 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.800 on a wheel. What she said. That's exactly what 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:26.680 I was going to say. I agree. Greed is never enough. 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:28.840 Yeah. I think it's, Gianna's just got the heart 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.800 of it. It's that desire, right? It's, it's, it's, 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:33.879 it's not just the stuff itself. It's actually 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:38.300 that constant... unfulfilled desire that tries 00:02:38.300 --> 00:02:42.000 you get try to fulfill through either the things 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.400 or the money or the things that money can buy. 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.759 Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think again, when 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:54.020 I kind of reflecting on greed, it's just good. 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.219 I went all the way back to kindergarten. It's 00:02:57.219 --> 00:02:59.680 like, what's the, you know, all the things I 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.620 need to know I learned in kindergarten, you know, 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.419 that thing. Right. I think greed was one of the 00:03:04.419 --> 00:03:06.180 things that was covered. It's, you know, it's 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.360 pretty basic that way. And I, you know, I just, 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.139 I thought of, you know, the kid in kindergarten 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:14.080 who's like grabbing up all the toys and wanting 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.659 to play all the toys with all the toys himself. 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.159 And, uh, and I'm pretty sure I was probably that 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:24.300 kid in kindergarten. And, uh, and I just, kind 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:26.520 of just remember, you know, that the teacher, 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:30.300 you know, saying, okay, Billy, you know, you 00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:32.039 can't play with all the toys yourself. Don't 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.319 be greedy. Right. Right. Just, you know, share 00:03:35.319 --> 00:03:37.759 the toys so everyone can play together. Right. 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:41.659 Play nice. And yeah, I think that's kind of so 00:03:41.659 --> 00:03:44.699 great for me. It seems like it was, you know, 00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:47.400 covered covered early on. So, I mean, it's so 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.259 in a way that it's it's addressed and we and 00:03:50.259 --> 00:03:53.039 we learn how to and we've from a very early age, 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:56.020 we've learned how to not be greedy and how to 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:59.620 share. I think it's still insidious in our culture 00:03:59.620 --> 00:04:02.400 because of it being accepted and normalized. 00:04:03.699 --> 00:04:06.139 And we have different definitions for that kind 00:04:06.139 --> 00:04:08.580 of grasping and grabbing as adults, right? Like 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:11.500 we want to be secure. We want to be, you know, 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.639 I mean, that's crute. from C .S. Lewis quote 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:19.839 about, we call it planning. We call it security. 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:23.160 It's not just the wanting of stuff. It's the 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.199 feelings we give up that we invest in these things 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.540 to give us. I think that so much goes to the 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:32.860 heart of greed. What are we asking money to do 00:04:32.860 --> 00:04:35.439 for us? And then you get a sense of what you're 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:37.519 trusting money to do for you and where you're 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.759 placing your trust. And I think when we talk 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:42.720 about greed, you need to understand that it's 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.899 a feeling first. and then an action after, right? 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.319 So that desire Jordan you're talking about that, 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:54.340 you know, that's the feeling that creates. the 00:04:54.340 --> 00:04:57.720 motivation to act greedily, right? Sure, sure. 00:04:57.819 --> 00:05:01.300 And grabbing. The word grabbing just came up 00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:03.579 as I was thinking through greed because you're 00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:08.379 just grabbing up everything. But it comes from 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:11.540 that desire first to have more and that there's 00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:14.459 never enough. And then you just kind of spend 00:05:14.459 --> 00:05:20.379 your time and you're so focused on just taking 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:22.980 as much as you can for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:25.740 I think you're right that it does, the feeling 00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:29.500 precedes the action, but I think sometimes we 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:32.879 don't recognize the feeling, and we don't stop 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:36.800 to name the feeling. It is, yeah, like you said, 00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:41.459 we call it security, we call it planning, we 00:05:41.459 --> 00:05:44.620 think of it as, especially, the thing that comes 00:05:44.620 --> 00:05:47.160 to mind for me is this scarcity mindset that 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.980 we often have, which is like, I need to have 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:52.240 enough. There is not enough in the world for 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:56.100 everyone. And so I need to make sure that like 00:05:56.100 --> 00:06:00.519 I have enough for me because there cannot possibly 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.480 like if I let go of this, then there cannot possibly 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:09.000 be enough. Right. Yeah. I mean, the thing about 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.720 the scarcity mindset is, as we can see from our 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.899 environmental crisis, there are resources that 00:06:14.899 --> 00:06:18.920 are not enough for everyone's greed, you know, 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:24.560 and so I'm not sure whether just shifting a mindset 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.360 from scarcity to there's plenty and we can all 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.560 have all we want is necessarily going to solve 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:36.220 that issue. Sure. Right. And so, you know, to 00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:39.860 recognize, I think this is where honestly, it's 00:06:39.860 --> 00:06:42.860 God that comes in, right? Like at the heart of 00:06:42.860 --> 00:06:45.279 this, it's, you know, what are the feelings and 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.839 what kind of meaning are we investing in this 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.560 stuff, right? If we want it so much, those feelings 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.259 can sometimes point to legitimate things. Like 00:06:54.259 --> 00:06:59.120 we do want to have food, you know, and as a mom, 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:02.240 I would like my kids to be able to go to college. 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:05.569 And in that sense, that means putting aside some 00:07:05.569 --> 00:07:08.149 money for the future and not just saying, oh, 00:07:08.189 --> 00:07:10.430 this is all I need for today or this week. Right. 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:14.800 And so that's where I find the the tension between 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.620 planning and greed, like I'm constantly walking 00:07:17.620 --> 00:07:20.500 those, you know, what is enough, not just for 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:23.319 now, but for planning for the future and what 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.860 is too much or what is, you know, how afraid 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:29.720 I am that I want to put so much away. And so 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:33.160 that's where I find it really difficult to sometimes, 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:36.860 you know, recognize what is necessary, because 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:39.579 even for the future, you don't need huge amounts. 00:07:39.779 --> 00:07:41.800 Right. Right. And at the same time, there's so 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:43.980 much answer. that you want the certainty to be 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:46.980 in those, you know, those funds that are there, 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.819 for example. So, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I think 00:07:51.819 --> 00:07:54.180 we need to be careful as we're talking about 00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:56.439 all this and future planning, right? Like, we're 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.439 not, I'm not saying, and I think you're not saying... 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.319 We're not saying don't plan. Right, yes, we're 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.399 not saying don't plan. We're not saying don't 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:05.660 have savings, you know, that sort of thing. But 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:09.000 it's, yeah, it's that really fine line between 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:12.519 like, what is enough and what is... So enough 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:16.399 is a really kind of important word in my thinking 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:19.399 when talking about greed, because I think we 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:21.879 need to figure out for ourselves what is enough, 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.759 right? In order to kind of get a grip or an understanding 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:30.000 of greed in our own life, we need to understand 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.840 for ourselves or for our family what is enough. 00:08:33.019 --> 00:08:35.769 And once we can identify what enough is, then 00:08:35.769 --> 00:08:38.070 we have a goal to reach for that we can plan 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:42.429 for and we can work towards so that we have enough. 00:08:42.769 --> 00:08:45.830 And then we also can use that as a guide. So 00:08:45.830 --> 00:08:49.350 if we're going past that, then we can identify 00:08:49.350 --> 00:08:52.809 that as, okay, now I'm being greedy. I've gone 00:08:52.809 --> 00:08:55.529 past what I need for my family and I'm getting 00:08:55.529 --> 00:08:59.470 more and more and more and that's too much. So 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:01.409 I think we need to figure out what is enough. 00:09:02.230 --> 00:09:04.809 And I think the problem with with greed or when 00:09:04.809 --> 00:09:09.049 greed has a hold on people's lives It's the attitude 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:11.309 is like you said, there's never enough Yeah, 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:13.710 right And then that's the mentality and if your 00:09:13.710 --> 00:09:16.110 mentality is never enough then you don't have 00:09:16.110 --> 00:09:18.850 that goal of what is enough you don't have that 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:22.330 guideline of what is what then is too much and 00:09:22.330 --> 00:09:24.590 Then and then the other kind of coming out on 00:09:24.590 --> 00:09:27.090 the other side of it is the the attitude of of 00:09:27.090 --> 00:09:29.909 saying I have enough Right just recognizing when 00:09:29.909 --> 00:09:32.990 you've got to that point and just being content 00:09:32.990 --> 00:09:37.009 and grateful and thankful for what you have. 00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:41.990 And I think that is when you're kind of turning 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:44.950 the corner on greed in terms of our own attitude 00:09:44.950 --> 00:09:49.470 and mindset is the contentment of knowing you've 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:51.330 done the planning, you've done the hard work, 00:09:51.730 --> 00:09:57.190 you've saved the money and you're in that guide 00:09:57.190 --> 00:10:00.720 that you've set yourself and you can say, You 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.340 know, I have enough. I'm content. And you don't 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:06.279 have to, and you can, you don't have to be, the 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:08.860 hold on greed doesn't have to be in your life. 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.580 Sure. So you were talking about, you know, trying 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:13.580 to figure out what is enough for you. So what 00:10:13.580 --> 00:10:16.299 does that look like practically? Is that like 00:10:16.299 --> 00:10:19.399 budgeting? Is that like setting a goal for yourself? 00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:23.149 Like what? Now, you're getting into money. I 00:10:23.149 --> 00:10:26.750 would really pull in my wife at this point. I'm 00:10:26.750 --> 00:10:31.049 pretty sure the answer is budget. That's beyond 00:10:31.049 --> 00:10:38.629 my pay grade. Having a plan and keeping to a 00:10:38.629 --> 00:10:41.399 budget. Rob talked about some of the ... practical 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:49.539 stuff around money and having a proper place 00:10:49.539 --> 00:10:53.440 in your life. A lot of that is just doing that 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.659 kind of assessment. What am I spending now? Identifying 00:10:57.659 --> 00:11:01.960 what's necessary, what's needed, what's not, 00:11:02.059 --> 00:11:06.460 and what's extra. Just being able to adjust your 00:11:06.460 --> 00:11:09.879 budget, your spending accordingly. And that you 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:12.519 can find that, you know, kind of contentment 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:17.980 groove. Sure, sure. Yeah. So I'm wondering, we 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:19.440 have spent a lot of time talking about money 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:24.700 and material possessions. How do we know in ourselves, 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.399 like what are some sort of signs that we have 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:30.539 a healthy relationship with money or that we 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:32.740 are maybe sort of have an unhealthy relationship? 00:11:32.740 --> 00:11:35.059 Maybe that's greed, maybe that's something else, 00:11:35.179 --> 00:11:40.610 but like for yourselves, how do you know? I think 00:11:40.610 --> 00:11:43.909 I think yeah, sorry. Go ahead. No, I was just 00:11:43.909 --> 00:11:50.649 gonna say the The challenge for me. Yeah Is to 00:11:50.649 --> 00:11:53.629 recognize that the money's not mine. Ah, yeah, 00:11:53.809 --> 00:11:55.970 you know what I mean? Like it's not just about 00:11:55.970 --> 00:11:59.330 enough It's the fact that so often you feel like 00:11:59.330 --> 00:12:02.129 it's yours because you earned it Yeah, right. 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:05.470 It's this notion of mine. This is mine to do 00:12:05.470 --> 00:12:09.929 as I want and to fulfill my needs as I want, 00:12:10.110 --> 00:12:16.509 as opposed to this is a gift given. And so it's 00:12:16.509 --> 00:12:18.389 so easy to forget that, right? Because we do 00:12:18.389 --> 00:12:22.669 work and we do work hard to earn a paycheck and 00:12:22.669 --> 00:12:25.210 to have enough for families, for our family, 00:12:25.370 --> 00:12:29.789 et cetera. And so that notion that it's all grace, 00:12:30.169 --> 00:12:33.309 it's all a gift, I think that's the challenge 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:39.029 for me. It begins lower than, below and more 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:44.169 deeply than me assessing what is enough for my 00:12:44.169 --> 00:12:47.269 money. It's actually, where do I put my trust 00:12:47.269 --> 00:12:51.429 and whose is this really? And then I can say, 00:12:51.490 --> 00:12:55.450 okay, God's given me this for my needs and He's 00:12:55.450 --> 00:12:59.429 given me more, right, and what? As well, and 00:12:59.429 --> 00:13:03.679 so. Yeah, I just find that that space where the 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.620 struggle lies is in remembering who's this thing. 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:11.320 Right. Yeah. Rather than, yeah. Yeah. It goes 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.279 back to that verse that Rob mentioned in the 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.419 sermon. The earth is the Lord's and everything 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:19.879 in it. Everything that we claim and hold as ours 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.299 is really, we're stewards of it rather than owners 00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:28.019 of it. We don't own it. We loan it. Or it's loaned 00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:32.039 to us. Yeah, I think for me, when I think about 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:36.500 my own relationship with money, so I grew up 00:13:36.500 --> 00:13:38.720 in a family, there's four kids, so there's six 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.679 of us living on a pastor's salary and my mom 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:46.139 wasn't working. And there was never a moment 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:49.000 where I really felt like, oh, we didn't have 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:50.919 enough money, like my parents did a really good 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:52.720 job taking care of us. But there was a sort of 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.419 general sense of like, we're not being extravagant 00:13:55.419 --> 00:13:59.340 with our money. And that is something that still 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:03.200 eats at the back of my brain. In any moment, 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.820 I'm like, oh, do I have enough money to do this 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:08.419 thing? And if I look at my bank account, yes, 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:13.480 I am fine. But those moments where I find myself 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:17.080 being stingy in ways that I don't need to be 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:23.039 is a reminder for me that my relationship with 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.899 money isn't something that like I need to like 00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:28.919 be as cognizant about like yes be responsible 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.480 but like don't let it be the controlling factor 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.919 of like you know am I gonna go out for dinner 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:37.820 or do I have enough money to like tithe this 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:41.159 month or like whatever it is right yeah you know 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:45.320 sorry I'm talking a lot um your um story reminds 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.350 me of this really amazing little story told by 00:14:48.350 --> 00:14:50.710 this writer called Wendy Wazirstein. And she 00:14:50.710 --> 00:14:52.409 talks about how the monks, you know, they've 00:14:52.409 --> 00:14:54.649 taken their vows of poverty and greed comes to 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:56.470 tempt them and she tempts them with all these 00:14:56.470 --> 00:14:59.490 extra things and they easily dismiss her. Yeah. 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:02.649 Right. And so she goes away, puts on the garb 00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:07.889 of thrift and comes back. Yeah. And they go for 00:15:07.889 --> 00:15:10.629 it. Yeah. And so why? Because it's good to save, 00:15:10.629 --> 00:15:12.090 right? It's good to be thrifty. It's good to 00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:18.370 stay on a little. But the underlying the underlying 00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:24.769 heart condition that exposed was the trust in 00:15:24.769 --> 00:15:27.750 material things as opposed to God's generosity 00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:30.529 to meet your needs. And so it was this focus 00:15:30.529 --> 00:15:35.190 on the material to meet your security needs. 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:38.490 And that's how... you know, they weren't necessarily 00:15:38.490 --> 00:15:40.830 tempted by lots of stuff. They were actually 00:15:40.830 --> 00:15:43.370 tempted by being thrifty and stingy and holding 00:15:43.370 --> 00:15:45.490 on to what they had. See, that feels very true 00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:48.049 to me. And I think that can be that too, you 00:15:48.049 --> 00:15:50.110 know, that sense that, oh, I'm living in the 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:52.309 simple way, but I'm not giving a lot, like I'm 00:15:52.309 --> 00:15:54.710 not releasing. And I think the antidote to greed 00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:59.049 is not either thrift or extravagance, sorry, 00:15:59.789 --> 00:16:06.259 but sort of... that space of letting go of your 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:10.220 hold on the material as the place where you find 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:14.230 that meaning. So that's I think where... where 00:16:14.230 --> 00:16:17.149 it's hard to walk that line. So you were saying 00:16:17.149 --> 00:16:20.470 earlier that being in the middle class, we kind 00:16:20.470 --> 00:16:22.529 of give ourselves a bye, or at least we could 00:16:22.529 --> 00:16:26.289 potentially be doing that. But I want to kind 00:16:26.289 --> 00:16:29.889 of highlight that greed is not just the domain 00:16:29.889 --> 00:16:33.649 of the rich, but also the middle class and also 00:16:33.649 --> 00:16:42.169 the poor. And that sense of scarcity mentality 00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:47.570 can be, everyone can have that sense, right? 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.809 So I was thinking back to a time when I was in 00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:58.809 a meal, a dinner program for homeless in downtown 00:16:58.809 --> 00:17:02.980 Toronto. And a guy came in, he went straight 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:04.920 to the front of the line, he grabbed up as much 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.319 food as he could put on his plate, and more so, 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:09.019 and then he started putting stuff in his pocket. 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.819 He didn't care about anybody else or if there 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.700 was enough, or he was just grabbing up all that 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:17.099 he can for himself. And he went and sat down 00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:20.000 and he ate, and then everyone else got food. 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.000 And there was another homeless person at this 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.220 sheltered dinner. And she got her plate and sat 00:17:28.220 --> 00:17:31.200 down. And shortly after that, someone came in 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:36.980 late. And unfortunately, there was no food left. 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.839 So that person didn't have any. And so the woman 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:45.000 who had taken her share and what was enough, 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:48.519 like earlier we were talking about, I have enough. 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.009 She took what was enough for her. And when she 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:54.309 saw that the guy didn't have came in and there 00:17:54.309 --> 00:17:56.769 was no food left, she motioned him over and she 00:17:56.769 --> 00:17:59.690 shared with him what was enough for her. But 00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:03.269 it also worked for the two of them. Right. Right. 00:18:03.650 --> 00:18:06.890 And so, you know, whether you're rich, whether 00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:08.970 you're middle class, whether you're poor, whether 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:14.549 you're in poverty and homeless, that sense of 00:18:14.549 --> 00:18:17.589 scarcity mentality can affect us and we can just 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:20.259 we can be greedy. And we can be poor and greedy, 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:22.900 right? And just grab everything up just for ourselves, 00:18:23.019 --> 00:18:24.960 don't care about anybody else. But we can also 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:29.259 be like that woman who knew what enough was, 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.420 took enough for her. But then when an opportunity 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:35.900 to share and be generous came up, she took that 00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:38.200 opportunity and she shared with what she had 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.660 so that together both of them were able to eat. 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:48.980 And I think that is the, you talked about the 00:18:48.980 --> 00:18:54.309 antithesis of greed is generosity. And I think 00:18:54.309 --> 00:18:57.150 just as we mentioned earlier that, you know, 00:18:57.470 --> 00:19:00.329 greed is a feeling first and an action after. 00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:02.750 I think generosity is the same way. Generosity 00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:05.829 is a feeling first. It's an attitude. It's a 00:19:05.829 --> 00:19:09.569 character within us. But it must have an action. 00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:15.710 And that action is sharing what we have. And 00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:18.470 you get to the point where, or hopefully, you 00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:22.430 get to the point where you say, I have more than 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:25.950 enough, right? And then out of my abundance, 00:19:27.269 --> 00:19:31.289 you're more than seven articles of clothing from 00:19:31.289 --> 00:19:36.490 the service, the example that was given. We can 00:19:36.490 --> 00:19:38.549 share with what we have, whether that's food 00:19:38.549 --> 00:19:42.789 or whether that's money or our time, and give 00:19:42.789 --> 00:19:51.480 to those who have less. The practice of generosity 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.500 is a character that is built through discipline, 00:19:55.740 --> 00:20:00.319 and as we mature as followers of Christ, and 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:05.539 it's lived out in our lives through being there, 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.140 being present, and making a difference in the 00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:09.960 lives of people who have less in our community. 00:20:11.180 --> 00:20:14.720 Yeah. What do you think, Johanna? What has greed 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.420 sort of looked like, or when you think about 00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:19.289 that? Yeah, now you're supposed to do your laugh. 00:20:19.809 --> 00:20:28.730 What? I can't control that. I mean, just thinking 00:20:28.730 --> 00:20:31.710 about like scarcity mindset made me think about 00:20:31.710 --> 00:20:35.890 I was listening to this other podcast and they 00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:38.809 were saying in the podcast of like living by 00:20:38.809 --> 00:20:41.150 an abundance mindset is better than a scarcity 00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:43.970 mindset. And the whole logic behind that was. 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:47.500 What was it? Oh, it was like when you're when 00:20:47.500 --> 00:20:50.140 you're in a scarcity mindset, you perceive a 00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:52.519 lack of something, whether it's money or food 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.119 or whatever resource. And so because your brain 00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.319 has that, like, oh, my gosh, there's a lack like 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.200 you're thinking that then you're going to just 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.420 think about it more and more that I'm lacking 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:05.559 this thing. And like, it's just going to be like 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:09.240 a. fixated thought that you have versus when 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.180 you live in an abundance mindset then it's like 00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.539 there's enough of everything to go around and 00:21:14.539 --> 00:21:17.220 so I don't need to covet more than what comes 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.420 to me and whatever comes to me comes to me and 00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:21.720 whatever does it doesn't right and it's just 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.140 more of like a like a laissez faire kind of passive 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:28.500 approach that uh to combat and greed I guess 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:32.329 of just relaxing, just chilling with it. And 00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:35.049 I had this other quote that I read somewhere. 00:21:35.529 --> 00:21:38.869 It was like, worrying about something is almost 00:21:38.869 --> 00:21:42.769 like worshiping something. So just like, with 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:45.470 things like resources, it's really easy to worry 00:21:45.470 --> 00:21:48.089 about, how am I going to be able to afford this 00:21:48.089 --> 00:21:51.349 or whatever else? Because those are legitimate 00:21:51.349 --> 00:21:55.170 fears to have. I don't know, it can be kind of 00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:57.630 comforting to know that money comes and goes 00:21:57.630 --> 00:22:00.250 and all those things. It's also kind of easier, 00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:03.069 I guess, though, where I'm at in life, because 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:05.869 that's very much true. I don't have any dependents 00:22:05.869 --> 00:22:09.869 or whatever, so I can just kind of relax. But 00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:12.789 it probably would be harder for someone like 00:22:12.789 --> 00:22:16.569 you, I guess, with your four? Two. Two. Oh, you 00:22:16.569 --> 00:22:18.470 were the one with four siblings and tickets. 00:22:18.789 --> 00:22:22.069 Right. My bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the 00:22:22.069 --> 00:22:24.269 thing about the abundance mindset, I think you're 00:22:24.269 --> 00:22:27.289 right that it is, it puts us into a better frame 00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:30.829 of mind. But the quote, the little catchphrase 00:22:30.829 --> 00:22:32.490 thing that comes to mind for me is like, there's 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:34.750 enough for everyone's need, but not enough for 00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:37.630 everyone's greed. Right. Right. It's like there 00:22:37.630 --> 00:22:41.420 is enough. Like if we were to like actually steward 00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:44.740 all of our resources well and like care deeply 00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:48.539 and justly for one another, we would be fine. 00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:52.039 But if the standard for enough is like the Elon 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.440 Musk's of the world, then no, there is not enough. 00:22:54.619 --> 00:22:57.859 Yeah. Right. But it's yeah. So it's all about 00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:00.359 sort of what about what that abundance means 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.160 and like where we draw that line for ourselves, 00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:08.049 I guess. Yeah. That's a great communal mindset 00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:10.369 to have. Globally, it would be amazing to have 00:23:10.369 --> 00:23:13.170 that communal mindset. In terms of food, the 00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:15.430 World Health Organization says there is enough 00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:21.029 food for the population. The problem is, it breaks 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:23.990 down very quickly as soon as one person takes 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:26.589 more. Then another person sees that person take 00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:29.569 more, and then they take more. But except on 00:23:29.569 --> 00:23:33.809 a global scale, it's nations. One nation is grabbing 00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:36.359 up. way more resources than other, and then they're 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.839 like, oh, well now we have to grab up and it 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.920 just kind of breaks down. Also the waste component, 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:45.460 people wasting a lot of resources because they 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.779 buy so many groceries and then the groceries 00:23:47.779 --> 00:23:49.819 are sitting in their fridge and they go bad and 00:23:49.819 --> 00:23:51.960 they toss them out when that could have been 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.880 eaten perchance. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or like the 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.259 groceries that never even leave the grocery store. 00:23:57.259 --> 00:24:00.160 Yeah, that's it. Go bad there. Yeah. Right. Like, 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.460 yeah. Yeah, there is. There is a lot of waste. 00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:05.980 Yeah. A big connection there between greed and 00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:08.529 waste, I think, because we. Yeah, if we think 00:24:08.529 --> 00:24:11.329 we need so much and then we have more than we 00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:13.049 actually know what to do with. Well, it's almost 00:24:13.049 --> 00:24:15.430 even a pride issue at that point, this point 00:24:15.430 --> 00:24:18.049 or one of the other Deadly Sins. Because you 00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:20.890 can actually say, we have so much, we can waste 00:24:20.890 --> 00:24:23.549 so much food and we still have enough, right? 00:24:23.730 --> 00:24:27.269 Aren't we amazing that we've got this set up 00:24:27.269 --> 00:24:30.700 that we can do that, right? And today, you've 00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:33.720 also got entire industries based on that, right? 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.380 Planned obsolescence of computers like this. 00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:39.460 You know, that many years you have to buy a new 00:24:39.460 --> 00:24:44.079 computer. I mean, fashion and trends and everything 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.059 from interior decorating to what we wear is just 00:24:47.059 --> 00:24:50.779 so based on that kind of waste, constant waste. 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.559 And so, I don't know, it just feels like entire 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.269 industries are structured to to sort of make 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:01.650 us on the one hand feel greedy and on the other 00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:04.769 hand not price things as they should be. I think 00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.490 one of the things about greed is that because 00:25:07.490 --> 00:25:10.009 you focus on the material to such an extent, 00:25:10.109 --> 00:25:13.450 you can also sort of not adequately value the 00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:15.930 things you have. Like it's worth valuing things 00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:17.529 for what they are. They're good gifts from God, 00:25:17.710 --> 00:25:20.869 right? Like so value it the way it should be 00:25:20.869 --> 00:25:23.250 and not too much, but also not too little, not 00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:25.670 just throw away at hell times. And so those are 00:25:25.670 --> 00:25:29.059 some of the sort of tensions, I think, of living 00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:32.240 through this particular sin. Yeah, yeah, for 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.640 sure. So, we've talked a little about greed in 00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:39.079 terms of money and material things. Does greed 00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.680 show up in other ways in our lives? Like, can 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:46.599 we be greedy for... I guess we talk about greedy 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:49.599 for or lust for maybe power. For example, like 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.910 is that a kind of greed? Well, my kindergarten 00:25:51.910 --> 00:25:54.970 example was with toys. Yes. So you're greedy 00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:58.150 with your toys. With your toys, yes. And that's 00:25:58.150 --> 00:26:00.930 where it all starts. I think greed for status 00:26:00.930 --> 00:26:03.950 maybe. Stuff like that. Greed to keep up with 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.410 trends. Those are status markers, right? It's 00:26:07.410 --> 00:26:09.150 not just money and material possessions. It's 00:26:09.150 --> 00:26:13.160 what can't. what can money buy? I think we want 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:16.579 those vacations every year, for example. Not 00:26:16.579 --> 00:26:18.839 just a vacation that goes close by, a vacation 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:22.859 that goes across the world, to Bali, to Tuscany, 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.059 I don't know. I'm telling you where I fantasize 00:26:26.059 --> 00:26:32.079 about, of course. I mean, that's, I think, when 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.420 we talk about greed, we're talking so much about 00:26:34.420 --> 00:26:37.640 what do we want to buy us, the values that we 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:40.279 have, the experiences we want to value, and then 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:45.000 that we keep wanting more money to fuel. I think 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.460 you can be greedy for influence as well. Could 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:51.160 you be greedy for time? Yes, this is my time. 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.640 So expand on that. What would that look like? 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:57.400 Well, just what I thought of was I have this 00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:01.039 one friend and Wanted to play roblox with them, 00:27:01.059 --> 00:27:03.359 but they don't want to play roblox with me because 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.599 they were busy with someone else And so I had 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.819 no one to play roblox with me even though we 00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:12.799 played roblox like a couple times this week And 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.019 it's like I'm low -key being a little greedy 00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:18.059 for time on roblox with my friend, right? I'm 00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:21.839 like greedy for their attention Yeah, like yeah, 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.740 it's fun playing with them. Yeah. Yeah, and and 00:27:24.740 --> 00:27:28.640 like I don't so I would be careful In calling 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:32.119 that greed because I think There could be a sense 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:34.039 in which you know if that becomes like a dominant 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.640 personality trait for you that maybe that's greedy 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.420 but like I don't know. I feel like it's fine 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.400 to be like, oh, I wish I really could have played 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.079 with my friend. It's like what we then do with 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:47.140 that feeling. It actually crushed me, broke me. 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.079 Like really? Really? No, no, okay. If you were 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.500 demanding more time from your friends and that 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:58.440 was taking time away from them to be with their 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.859 family or with other friends, right? Then that's 00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:05.279 greed in the same way that you're taking more 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.930 money and other people as a result have less, 00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:12.269 right? Or you take more food because you're hungry 00:28:12.269 --> 00:28:14.529 and you're greedy around food and then other 00:28:14.529 --> 00:28:17.190 people have less food, right? So if you're greedy 00:28:17.190 --> 00:28:21.200 with time. I like that. I like that. It's just 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.039 saying, you know, I'm taking, I'm taking, it's 00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:25.900 not just greeting of your own time, but it's 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:29.359 like, I'm taking other people's time and keeping 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.519 it for myself. And then those people have less 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.940 time with other people, their loved ones. I didn't 00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:40.039 know Roblox could be so destructive. Insidious. 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:47.359 Yeah, it's like some great Eva. Yeah. So, You 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.140 said something about being greedy for influence 00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:54.259 or status. What does that look like? Wanting 00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:57.039 everyone to know that you are all powerful, I 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.299 guess. Wanting admiration, right? We want people 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:06.740 to look up to you, to recognize you. Yeah, yeah, 00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:10.339 I think it's yeah greedy for recognition That's 00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:12.859 like that that's where the influence gets you 00:29:12.859 --> 00:29:16.799 It's hard because everyone kind of wants to be 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.920 recognized I think like whether it's like at 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.579 work or like with your friends or like if you 00:29:22.579 --> 00:29:24.539 want to be down in the history books I don't 00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:27.259 know like everyone kind of wants to leave a mark. 00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:31.180 I think mm -hmm So it's like hard to not be greedy 00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:37.490 for it. I think Yeah. So recognition on its own, 00:29:37.569 --> 00:29:39.569 I think it depends on what you want to be recognized 00:29:39.569 --> 00:29:44.529 for and who you want to be recognized by. I mean, 00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:46.309 to the extent that if you want to bring this 00:29:46.309 --> 00:29:48.849 back to Jesus, like Jesus died for, if you want 00:29:48.849 --> 00:29:52.069 to, you know, each one of us. The ultimate recognition 00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:55.470 is sacrifice for us. To what extent do we lean 00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.289 into that love and know that it is unshakable? 00:29:58.630 --> 00:30:02.009 Right. Right. There is first that, that He sees 00:30:02.009 --> 00:30:06.130 you. and he loves you, right? To lean into that 00:30:06.130 --> 00:30:10.029 can let you sort of let go of some of the more 00:30:10.029 --> 00:30:13.549 unhealthy ways in which you can crave recognition 00:30:13.549 --> 00:30:16.849 or admiration from other people, right? And then 00:30:16.849 --> 00:30:19.269 you can lean into the fact that your family loves 00:30:19.269 --> 00:30:23.410 you and you are important. And so there are so 00:30:23.410 --> 00:30:27.210 many ways in which we can say recognition because 00:30:27.210 --> 00:30:32.130 we... we have a dignity that we are given both 00:30:32.130 --> 00:30:34.930 by God, by our family members, and we can lean 00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:37.910 into that and let go of some of the more ephemeral 00:30:37.910 --> 00:30:40.730 ways in which we might seek recognition, for 00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:44.930 example. And so that's sort of where I'd say 00:30:44.930 --> 00:30:48.490 recognition matters for our dignity. But where 00:30:48.490 --> 00:30:50.829 we seek that recognition from and how we lean 00:30:50.829 --> 00:30:54.789 into it can either be destructive or can be really 00:30:54.789 --> 00:30:58.759 healthy, right? Yeah, I mean, I think there's 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.640 nothing wrong with seeking some kind of recognition, 00:31:03.140 --> 00:31:08.359 right? Like, yeah, like you said, it's love that 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:10.619 comes from Christ or that comes from family or 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.519 friends. That is a kind of recognition and it's 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:18.420 okay to want that, I think. It's greed, all of 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:22.240 the sins, but greed is so hard because it is 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.430 that... fine line that happens in your head right 00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:29.789 between like this is okay to want and like I'm 00:31:29.789 --> 00:31:33.769 you go from this is okay to like I'm gonna strive 00:31:33.769 --> 00:31:36.829 and do everything that I can to like get this 00:31:36.829 --> 00:31:38.890 thing right I feel like that's where it becomes 00:31:38.890 --> 00:31:43.029 yeah a kind of greed yep yeah I would agree yeah 00:31:43.029 --> 00:31:46.990 so we've spent a lot of time now talking about 00:31:46.990 --> 00:31:49.269 some of the problems of greed some of the ways 00:31:49.269 --> 00:31:52.900 that it shows up in our lives What are some antidotes 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.440 to greed? How can we move forward in healthy, 00:31:56.779 --> 00:32:00.380 sort of hopeful ways? Abundance mindset. Okay, 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:05.079 yeah? Yeah, just have it. Just have an abundance 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.660 mindset. Yeah, it's not that easy, I guess. And 00:32:08.660 --> 00:32:12.079 it definitely would take adjusting to and just 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.720 thinking of like, I don't know, just really decenter 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.940 things from life. And it's like, there's so much 00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:21.990 more than wanting. I don't know. Yeah, it's not 00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:25.750 easy though, so I still want things, but I don't 00:32:25.750 --> 00:32:28.349 know. I feel like it's helped with greed. Yeah, 00:32:28.410 --> 00:32:30.930 for sure. Just to be able to like shift your 00:32:30.930 --> 00:32:33.950 thoughts and say like, no, there is enough. Yeah. 00:32:33.950 --> 00:32:36.990 Let's be chill. I'm fine. I have 11 pairs of 00:32:36.990 --> 00:32:38.930 these at home. It's fine. I don't need to buy 00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:43.869 another. So that's your enough? 11 pairs? 11 00:32:43.869 --> 00:32:46.289 is a pretty good number. Yeah, you have one pair 00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:51.670 every day and that's them. Other practices? Other 00:32:51.670 --> 00:32:56.809 sort of ways? I was going to say ask where your 00:32:56.809 --> 00:33:02.809 material things come from and what are they for. 00:33:03.210 --> 00:33:06.569 Okay. Right. And so that you are remembering 00:33:06.569 --> 00:33:10.930 that they're coming from God. Right. Yep. And 00:33:10.930 --> 00:33:15.609 what are they for? Yeah. Right. And to that extent, 00:33:15.829 --> 00:33:18.230 I'm hoping for me, and this is very personal 00:33:18.230 --> 00:33:22.930 here, that I'm sort of able to open my hands 00:33:22.930 --> 00:33:27.250 from this clutching it tightly thing that I've 00:33:27.250 --> 00:33:31.539 got going and say, okay, this is not... I might 00:33:31.539 --> 00:33:33.960 have worked for it, yes, but that itself, that 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:37.519 work is a gift. The ability to do that is a gift. 00:33:37.700 --> 00:33:40.940 It's come as a gift. So what is it for? Yes, 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.660 it's for me to eat and to take care of my family 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:52.069 and so much more in terms of sharing. So you 00:33:52.069 --> 00:33:54.109 said, you know, talking about where things have 00:33:54.109 --> 00:33:57.509 come from and ultimately from God. Yes. But the 00:33:57.509 --> 00:33:59.049 first thing that came to mind for me is like, 00:33:59.269 --> 00:34:02.829 where did this thing, this shirt, this car, this 00:34:02.829 --> 00:34:05.730 phone, where did it actually come from? Right. 00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:07.910 Right. Like what were the component parts into 00:34:07.910 --> 00:34:10.429 making this and getting it from wherever it was 00:34:10.429 --> 00:34:13.750 to me? Right. And I think thinking about that 00:34:13.750 --> 00:34:16.869 process is also really helpful. Yes. Right. Because 00:34:16.869 --> 00:34:20.909 it reminds me, OK, there is physical impact in 00:34:20.909 --> 00:34:23.550 the world. There's humans behind this product. 00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:25.949 There's humans behind this product. There's like 00:34:25.949 --> 00:34:28.809 nature and like natural resources that went into 00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:33.489 giving me this product. And often the greed machine 00:34:33.489 --> 00:34:37.010 has that there's negative parts to that process. 00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:40.170 It's out of sight and so we never want to think 00:34:40.170 --> 00:34:43.250 about it, right? Yeah, but if we can stop to 00:34:43.250 --> 00:34:46.559 think about it, again it's not you know, the 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.659 silver bullet solution, but it is something that 00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:51.579 I think helps me remember, okay, why do I need 00:34:51.579 --> 00:34:55.719 two of this if the impact is so large? Yeah, 00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:57.920 I know that's good as part of having a global 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.940 understanding on the impact of greed, you know, 00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:05.760 in corporations and government and, you know, 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:10.000 and that trickling down to our purchasing patterns. 00:35:10.059 --> 00:35:12.059 Yeah, that's helpful for me. And maybe affecting 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.619 that. Yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say that's 00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:16.739 helped for me too of like thinking about the 00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:19.639 background specifically for fashion because it's 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.900 really easy to see a bunch of videos of someone 00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:25.500 wearing something that looks really cool and 00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:27.760 like it's everyone's wearing them so it's a bunch 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.860 of videos like a lot and you want it too but 00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:33.699 you can't have it because it's like I already 00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:37.039 have something similar or I'm not gonna wear 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.400 it enough times to really justify making the 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.019 purchase even from a financial standpoint. And 00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:44.739 then there's like that human aspect of like, 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:48.539 is this even worth it? Like the underpaid children, 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.360 like I don't want to be, I don't really want 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.760 to have pieces like that in my wardrobe just 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.699 to sit there. So yeah, it makes me feel bad. 00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:59.960 And then I just don't buy the clothes. Yeah. 00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:04.500 Yeah. That's a good perspective. I think so spiritually 00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:07.929 and in terms of our faith journey. I think like 00:36:07.929 --> 00:36:10.230 so many of the seven deadly sins we've talked 00:36:10.230 --> 00:36:12.289 about already and maybe a few more that we're 00:36:12.289 --> 00:36:15.940 going to talk about, I think the ultimate answer 00:36:15.940 --> 00:36:23.519 for us is Jesus. And if we put our focus on Jesus 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.139 and that is where our energy is, that is where 00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:35.079 our heart is, then greed does not have the same 00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:38.940 kind of an effect on us and in our lives. I don't 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:42.119 say that to make it sound like it's easy or supposed 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.260 to be easy because it's not. It is a discipline. 00:36:45.460 --> 00:36:49.219 It is something that hopefully you get better 00:36:49.219 --> 00:36:52.360 at over time if you're being intentional about 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:59.519 it. But as a follower of Christ, we have that 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:05.130 resource available to us where we can seek. You 00:37:05.130 --> 00:37:09.570 know Jesus in as that primary in our in our life 00:37:09.570 --> 00:37:13.170 and so we're not You know the so money can have 00:37:13.170 --> 00:37:16.010 its place and and the other kind of resources 00:37:16.010 --> 00:37:18.389 that we that we need can have that place and 00:37:18.389 --> 00:37:23.469 I think that it also is the source of the contentment 00:37:23.469 --> 00:37:27.429 which I think is is so crucial to To kind of 00:37:27.429 --> 00:37:30.230 cutting the legs of greed because if we can if 00:37:30.230 --> 00:37:33.989 we could learn to be content with what we have 00:37:33.989 --> 00:37:38.449 then then greed loses its hold on us yeah yeah 00:37:38.449 --> 00:37:41.409 for sure for sure um something else i thought 00:37:41.409 --> 00:37:44.570 of was just remembering how many things that 00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:47.050 are commonplace and like normal in our lives 00:37:47.050 --> 00:37:50.210 are actually kind of luxuries i guess yes like 00:37:50.210 --> 00:37:53.050 with the fashion example i'm just gonna build 00:37:53.050 --> 00:37:55.829 off of that i guess it's like you know looking 00:37:55.829 --> 00:37:59.010 cute that's not something that people could do 00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.780 a few couple years ago. Like you would have to 00:38:02.780 --> 00:38:06.000 be an aristocrat to wear the color purple or 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:10.179 whatever. So just to, I guess prioritize your 00:38:10.179 --> 00:38:13.599 wants over people's wellbeing and stuff. So you 00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.800 want to look cute, so you buy the thing and you're 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.090 just not gonna think about. the exploitation 00:38:19.090 --> 00:38:21.329 that's happening because you want the thing so 00:38:21.329 --> 00:38:23.489 badly that it's not even going to be a staple 00:38:23.489 --> 00:38:26.510 of your wardrobe in a few weeks. But yeah, just 00:38:26.510 --> 00:38:28.730 remembering that a lot of the things that we 00:38:28.730 --> 00:38:31.369 want and like are within reach for us, that's 00:38:31.369 --> 00:38:34.730 why we want them, I guess. Then like, they're 00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:38.289 not commonplace really. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:38:38.409 --> 00:38:40.789 Putting yourself in like the grand scheme of 00:38:40.789 --> 00:38:43.369 the current globe, but also like the history 00:38:43.369 --> 00:38:47.260 of humanity right it's like yes i could get this 00:38:47.260 --> 00:38:49.300 thing but people survive lots of years without 00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:52.579 it now a lot is that true of everything that 00:38:52.579 --> 00:38:54.340 you know we shouldn't want those things just 00:38:54.340 --> 00:38:57.519 because people got by without it right yeah no 00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:01.079 not necessarily but i think that it yeah it's 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.840 again a helpful question to stop and ask yourself 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.630 um that interrupts our consumerist sort of mindset, 00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:11.170 for sure. Kind of makes me hope that Natalie, 00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:13.769 my wife, doesn't see this podcast because if 00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:15.789 she does, then she's going to challenge me on 00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:20.329 the number of t -shirts I have. I have a lot 00:39:20.329 --> 00:39:21.949 of t -shirts. You can just say you won't buy 00:39:21.949 --> 00:39:25.250 any more for two years. I think I've already 00:39:25.250 --> 00:39:31.119 made that promise. Good. Thank you so much, folks. 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.719 This has been really helpful to talk through 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.320 what does greed look like in our world and what 00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:38.980 are some of the ways that we can hopefully move 00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:42.500 forward from it. Thank you for tuning in and 00:39:42.500 --> 00:39:45.440 listening along with us. Feel free to share a 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.039 comment or share this with some other folks. 00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:49.539 We'd love to hear from you about some of your 00:39:49.539 --> 00:39:51.099 struggles with greed and some of the helpful 00:39:51.099 --> 00:39:53.780 things that you have found to move forward from 00:39:53.780 --> 00:39:55.840 it. We'll see you again next week.