This December here at Trinity, we are taking a deep dive into Charles Dickens' novel
A Christmas Carol and looking at the ghosts of Christmas and just looking at how this
story reveals to us the importance of generosity, both now in the present, in our physical lives,
but also the impact that it has in our spiritual lives.
And actually this coming Tuesday is actually also Giving Tuesday, which is a day that's
sort of designated to celebrate and to practice generosity.
And so in line with those themes, I thought it would be great to just sit down with a
few members from Trinity's congregation and talk about what is generosity and how do we
practice that.
So I'm really excited to welcome Liz and Dave and Bob to the podcast.
Thank you all for joining me, folks.
Thank you.
Okay, so we're just going to dive right into it.
And my first question is, what is generosity?
What does that word even mean to you?
Do you want to start us off, Liz?
Sure.
I think at its sort of most fundamental level is giving without an expectation of anything
in return.
It's just a sort of altruistic gesture that you make.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Arthur, do you want to add anything to that?
I guess I would only add.
It's usually, oftentimes an expression of your helping somebody that has a need or could
be just cheering somebody up.
It's usually something we're doing a little bit.
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I think Dave, to sort of tack onto what Dave said, it's when people think of giving, many
people think of financial giving, but it's also your time.
It's your talents.
It's giving of self.
And that's also very important as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And do you think generosity, it's sort of one blanket word.
Do we feel like it looks the same for everybody or is generosity maybe individually tailored
a little bit?
Yeah, I think it, to me, I think it is tailored because the biblical example of the widow's
might where the widow comes and gives, she gives not of her excess, but of her poverty.
Right.
And to me, you know, God has blessed all of us with individual elements, whether it's
your spiritual gifts, whether it's some people are financially better than others.
And I think thus our giving, our generosity is tailored to who we are, who is God, God
is innately given to us.
I just add to that.
It's really, it's a gesture that God has given us much.
He's created us.
And it's probably not surprising that God expects us to follow God's behavior.
We can't match it in the dimension, but we can do it.
And that's why I think for many people, they want to be generous because it comes out of
that.
Right.
And even at the same time, there's a pragmatic in most cases, I think, or in many cases,
when you're generous to someone else, you get some satisfaction or feeling that isn't
the reason you want to be generous, but it's kind of a payback that just happens.
I remember I was in Europe in one of the countries that was in just a terrible mess and a little
boy, he was 10, his arm had been broken by a soldier.
They were living in a school gym and so forth.
And when he got a piece of chocolate from somebody and he turned to me and he wanted
to share it with me.
It was one of the most genuine expressions I thought from a boy of about seven years
old.
Right.
Yeah.
What do you think, Liz?
Well I think, yeah, I agree that it's generosity sort of flows out of who we are individually
and what we've experienced.
And also, to Dave's point, in recognition that we've received so much from God in so
many ways, and not just financially, but in the relationships that we create and the opportunities
that come our way.
And so when we are generous, it's out of our own, what we have to give.
And for some of us, financially, whatever that level is, and for others, it's their
sharing their wisdom or their time and volunteering.
We've got the parish hall and the kitchen right here behind us and there's a team of
volunteers in the kitchen who are making coffee and setting up the cookies.
And I think that everybody has different ways to give and has the ability to give, too.
And for Christians, it's rooted in our recognition that everything we have is a gift from God.
And generosity is our way of expressing the thanks that we have for everything that God's
given us.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think, I mean, you both, Dave and Liz, you've sort of touched on this idea that
our generosity comes first out of the generosity of God, right?
That God has given us so much and so we sort of give a portion of that on to others and
back to God in the same sort of way.
Are there other things that you think sort of prompt a life of generosity, maybe for
you individually or for us as a church?
Well, I think Dave touched on this, you know, the joy is in the giving.
And time and time again, I see that in my own life that, you know, again, it's not why
we give, but there's the joy that comes back from the giving.
Right.
You know, personal example, you know, we have the relationship right now with Trinity with
Nueva Frontera, but we've had a longstanding relationship with Honduras that goes back
to, you know, 2000, maybe even a little earlier.
And you know, I was able to do multiple trips to Honduras with World Vision to visit a local
area development program and just the joy that came back to me from that was, you know,
far more than the cost of getting there or the labor we did.
It was ultimately seeing what we were doing as a church and what I was doing individually.
It was God's reward to us.
I would add to that being generous is a freeing experience.
Right.
I mean, I remember back when I was, you know, just came to faith and, you know, I was living
on my own and single and didn't have a lot of money and you often would wonder, you know,
how I was going to pay the rent and that, you know, just really challenging times.
And then, you know, my brother led me to faith and it sort of started this journey and, you
know, lots of conversations about giving.
And you know, at first I'm like, how can I do that?
I mean, I struggle to pay the rent and all of that kind of thing.
But little by little, I grew my giving muscle.
Sure.
Right.
And little by little, I was like, I think I can squeeze out, you know, $10 or whatever
it was.
And what I found was, you know, God was faithful in meeting my needs.
Right.
And so, and the more I sort of looked back on how God provided in His faithfulness, you
know, it encouraged me to stretch a little bit more and a little bit more and a little
bit more.
And now it's easier.
I mean, it depends, right?
But I think it sort of freed me, you know, the grip that I had on money and those resources
and the worry about it, you know, to just sort of like slowly sort of ease out of that
and step forward more.
And there's such joy in that freedom.
I highly recommend it.
I think too, generosity brings a healthiness in our lives.
And I realize everybody's situation is different.
But it seems to me, and through Scripture, it's very clear in the Old Testament and
the New Testament was to be generous and care for other people.
And it hasn't changed.
It's still that way right now.
And that's really, I think, important when we live our lives to understand.
And we're also accepting generosity.
That's also part of it.
When somebody does something really special, it doesn't have to be big.
But to acknowledge it, for example, I remember I was in a line at the grocery store early
on when we came to Canada and a little boy ahead of me, he was helping his mother doing
everything, everything.
And I just, I couldn't resist it.
I said, I said, you're a really, you're a really good young man.
I said, can I, I just like to buy you a, I just like to buy you a little treat.
And the lady behind me said, now you're, what are you doing now?
Now you're spoiling him or something like that.
You know, it's kind of knocked the wind out of the whole thing.
But I do think those moments where we can express is really important, whether it's
tangible or just a word.
Because so many people in our busy world oftentimes don't have very good conversation.
And they're not often, and always seen either.
You know, it's important that recognition piece is really important.
So we've started some storytelling already, but maybe can you share a time of when you
were blessed by someone else's generosity?
What has that looked like in your own lives?
Now we're all thinking.
I remember, you know, just after when my father passed away six years ago now, and we were
in, the funeral was here at Trinity and then, and no little reception, but then the family
came back to our house for an Irish wake.
And we were expecting a lot of people and I was like, how am I going to manage this?
You know, feeding people and making sure they had something to drink.
And my best friend and her husband stepped forward and we're going to take care of this.
You know, you can just relax, enjoy your guests and we're going to man the kitchen, we're
going to handle all, you know, heating all the, you know, nibblies and making sure there's
drinks for everyone.
I was just, and sadly she passed away two years ago, but her legacy lives on.
I can tell you that.
But it was just, I was just so, I wasn't really surprised, but because that was her nature
and she was a generous person, but it made such an impact on me and Al and Alex, you
know, to be able to spend time with family and, you know, one by one family members would
wander into the kitchen, you know, to talk to them and find out who are these people.
But it really, it just freed us up to really have a space to honor my father as family
members.
And it just, you know, it brings me to tears just, you know, talking about it now, even
after six years, but, you know, those actions have huge impact and sometimes with eternal
consequences too.
I do remember, and it kind of building a little bit on what you were saying, Liz, this, again,
this is many years ago, but, you know, I was fairly new to Trinity, I guess I've been here
about four or five years.
And my oldest daughter had to go into SickKids for some pretty significant surgery.
And you know, she was under for 13 hours.
And out of the blue, I get a call from Harold Percy.
And he said, listen, I'm coming downtown.
I just want to spend time with you and Sue.
Can you tell me where you are?
You know, went out for coffee.
And I just had a long talk.
And that, that, that, that to me epitomized generosity of time, the idea that that he
just, you know, came all the way downtown, spent time with my wife and I and prayed with
us and that again, a memory I'll cherish the rest of my life.
Yeah, what about for you, Dave?
Oh, so many things to, I think, talk about.
I guess the big one for us is when our daughter died in the last few years, that was really
a shocker for us.
Yeah.
And, and the church just, you know, just stood and cared for us and extended family, friends.
I mean, all those sorts of things are really important and they're tremendous gifts when
you're really up against the wall with things that are just so tragic and difficult.
And I think for me, that's, it certainly that's been the strongest thing in my immediate experience.
But I'm just, I'm, I'm always, I'm also intrigued with the idea.
If we have a generous spirit, it doesn't mean that you're giving everything away or whatever,
but to have a generous spirit so that people kind of feel that and feel it's a safe place
to talk to you and be able to say something.
And I think that's something that's kind of, we don't always appreciate it, but I think
it's so critical in all of our lives because we all have ups and downs and it's really
important.
And that's why I think the whole idea of this is so important.
Yeah.
What, what stands out to me from, from all of your stories is that, you know, these examples
of generosity that are so meaningful to you aren't significant financial gifts.
You know, like maybe there's a financial component to it, but really it's that gift of presence.
It's that gift of taking out the time, the space, the emotional energy to just give of
yourself and be with other people.
And I think so often when we think about generosity, as I think you said earlier, we think of it
in financial terms, but that's, that's really only a small piece of it.
Yeah.
And what would our community be like if we didn't, if we weren't generous people, generous
with our time and welcoming the newcomer, you know, or walking along alongside someone
who's in difficulty or, you know, whatever it may be.
I mean, what would it look like without generosity?
It would not be a great place.
Right.
Yeah.
I like the way that you sort of framed it, Dave, that it's a generous spirit that then
like opens up that space for, for community to really happen.
Right?
Yeah.
And I find so many people just respond with a smile.
You're busy in the airport and just, you do something just, I enjoy that.
It's not totally without a, what, a payback because their smile or whatever the engagement
is just encourages me.
And I think there's, especially in our busy world today, there's, most people are quite
open for just a couple of seconds to, to see a smile or an interest in some kind.
And who knows the impact of that?
I mean, that smile could have been the only one they got that day or that week, you know,
and it's caused nothing.
But I do want to say, let's not miss the money side of things.
We got a campaign coming.
Yeah.
That's true.
And, and that's important because our, our money, our wealth, our substance are really
important to us.
And obviously, but at the same time, we, we kind of have to run it through the same kind
of screen of, okay, we're people who want to follow Christ.
We want to love our neighbor.
Okay.
How are we going to do that?
Right.
And one of the ways you're going to do that, one expression of it is giving financially
because this doesn't happen without some, some funds that help us do the things that
God wants us to do.
So I'm, I'm excited about this campaign.
I think it'll be great.
We have lots of opportunities and our church, our church and the wider community that we're
working in, they're looking to us to be able to help and to, and as well as what we're
doing within our immediate church community here with all the opportunities we have there
as well.
Yeah.
Well said.
Yeah.
And we've mentioned a few times throughout this conversation, the idea that we're generous
with others and we, you know, we try to bless other people, but actually it does bring benefit
and blessing on to us as well.
Like I can think about, you know, when I'm generous with my time, you know, volunteering
with someone, with an organization or just spending time with someone, like I reap the
rewards of that relationship as well.
Or when I give financially to a church or to another organization, just getting to read
the stories and the impact of that, that financial generosity.
Yeah.
So just wondering if you can share, how have you been blessed by being generous and giving
what God has given to you?
Or any stories, any memories that come to mind for you?
Well for me, what comes to my mind was my dad.
I grew up on a dairy farm and he was moved into sort of machinery.
We were in a little church that never, we were in a basement and it never, it never
got above the basement.
But my dad would always give at church.
That was, he was a tither and I really grasped that.
And I think, you know, a parent sets an example, but you still have to decide, do I really
believe this?
Do I really want to do this?
But my dad's discipline about that was really foundational for me.
And so I kind of feel, you know, there have been moments where I've been not had much
money or whatever.
So I understand what that's like.
But most of my life I've been able to, you know, I've been able to give, I believed in
the tithing and I tried to do more than that.
But that's another part of, I think, that's made my spiritual journey, my journey following
Christ another way.
It's meaningful to me.
Sure, yeah.
And it may seem strange to some people when you're talking about giving money to something
else.
But when you think about it, you don't, you buy things that you like, if you wear or whatever
it is, well, this is the same thing.
I feel like it, yeah, I feel good about it.
It's something that I want to do.
I feel a responsibility.
For me, I go back to when we had the fire here in 1998, I guess.
And you know, I was on the parish executive, and I actually don't even remember, I think
I was either rector's warden or treasurer.
I don't remember now.
But you know, and the grief that I was going through personally after the fire, because
we had a plan to renovate the church, to expand the church.
We were bursting at the seams.
And it caused me to question my own faith.
Is this what God wants us for us at Trinity?
And the response afterwards, the financial generosity and the giving, but also just people
gathering and supporting each other in the rebuilding.
You know, that to me was God's answer, that we knew we were going to get through this,
and we knew that we were going to be blessed.
And that to me was, I got way more out of that than what I put in, in terms of my giving
and my involvement with the parish executive.
So that will again stay with me.
Just to build on that, there was a little Pentecostal church, not even in our community.
I think somewhere in Toronto, and they gave all their mission money to our church.
We didn't know anybody there, they just stepped up.
That was to me one of the first signs that God's in this.
We're going to get through this.
That's cool.
I look forward to, now in my role, I see lots of financial information and stuff, but it's
always astounding to me when I see my own giving statement.
We send them, or tax receipts, probably better.
I look at it and I'm like, what?
Just knowing that my tithe and my offerings are helping to create and support a wonderful
community and to advance the mission of Trinity and the broader church, introducing people
to Jesus and unfolding them into a faith community and walking alongside them in their faith
journey.
Just like someone walked alongside me when I was a baby Christian.
I had to learn a lot of stuff and everything seemed really weird at the beginning.
But just being part of that story and all the journeys of different people and just
helping to support that in whatever way God invites me to do that, whether it's financial
giving, but in lots of other ways.
Being part of this community or any faith community, that's just the best gift that
you could have, right?
Being part of the kingdom in this way.
Thank you all so much, folks, for your generosity and giving me some of your time and your stories.
Just sharing the ways that you have been impacted by the generosity of others and that you have
been able to extend that gift.
Thank you so much.
For those who are watching, I hope that you were able to pull some nuggets, some inspiration
from this as well, especially as we move into this Christmas season, that you would think
about how you can take what God has given you, whether that's finances or time or energy
or other gifts, and extend that back to others.
So we'll see you again for next week's episode of Trinity Talk.