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This December here at Trinity, we are taking a deep dive into Charles Dickens' novel

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A Christmas Carol and looking at the ghosts of Christmas and just looking at how this

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story reveals to us the importance of generosity, both now in the present, in our physical lives,

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but also the impact that it has in our spiritual lives.

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And actually this coming Tuesday is actually also Giving Tuesday, which is a day that's

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sort of designated to celebrate and to practice generosity.

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And so in line with those themes, I thought it would be great to just sit down with a

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few members from Trinity's congregation and talk about what is generosity and how do we

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practice that.

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So I'm really excited to welcome Liz and Dave and Bob to the podcast.

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Thank you all for joining me, folks.

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Thank you.

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Okay, so we're just going to dive right into it.

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And my first question is, what is generosity?

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What does that word even mean to you?

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Do you want to start us off, Liz?

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Sure.

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I think at its sort of most fundamental level is giving without an expectation of anything

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in return.

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It's just a sort of altruistic gesture that you make.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Arthur, do you want to add anything to that?

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I guess I would only add.

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It's usually, oftentimes an expression of your helping somebody that has a need or could

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be just cheering somebody up.

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It's usually something we're doing a little bit.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think Dave, to sort of tack onto what Dave said, it's when people think of giving, many

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people think of financial giving, but it's also your time.

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It's your talents.

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It's giving of self.

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And that's also very important as well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And do you think generosity, it's sort of one blanket word.

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Do we feel like it looks the same for everybody or is generosity maybe individually tailored

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a little bit?

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Yeah, I think it, to me, I think it is tailored because the biblical example of the widow's

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might where the widow comes and gives, she gives not of her excess, but of her poverty.

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Right.

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And to me, you know, God has blessed all of us with individual elements, whether it's

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your spiritual gifts, whether it's some people are financially better than others.

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And I think thus our giving, our generosity is tailored to who we are, who is God, God

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is innately given to us.

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I just add to that.

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It's really, it's a gesture that God has given us much.

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He's created us.

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And it's probably not surprising that God expects us to follow God's behavior.

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We can't match it in the dimension, but we can do it.

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And that's why I think for many people, they want to be generous because it comes out of

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that.

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Right.

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And even at the same time, there's a pragmatic in most cases, I think, or in many cases,

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when you're generous to someone else, you get some satisfaction or feeling that isn't

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the reason you want to be generous, but it's kind of a payback that just happens.

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I remember I was in Europe in one of the countries that was in just a terrible mess and a little

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boy, he was 10, his arm had been broken by a soldier.

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They were living in a school gym and so forth.

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And when he got a piece of chocolate from somebody and he turned to me and he wanted

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to share it with me.

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It was one of the most genuine expressions I thought from a boy of about seven years

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old.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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What do you think, Liz?

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Well I think, yeah, I agree that it's generosity sort of flows out of who we are individually

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and what we've experienced.

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And also, to Dave's point, in recognition that we've received so much from God in so

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many ways, and not just financially, but in the relationships that we create and the opportunities

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that come our way.

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And so when we are generous, it's out of our own, what we have to give.

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And for some of us, financially, whatever that level is, and for others, it's their

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sharing their wisdom or their time and volunteering.

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We've got the parish hall and the kitchen right here behind us and there's a team of

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volunteers in the kitchen who are making coffee and setting up the cookies.

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And I think that everybody has different ways to give and has the ability to give, too.

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And for Christians, it's rooted in our recognition that everything we have is a gift from God.

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And generosity is our way of expressing the thanks that we have for everything that God's

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given us.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, I think, I mean, you both, Dave and Liz, you've sort of touched on this idea that

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our generosity comes first out of the generosity of God, right?

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That God has given us so much and so we sort of give a portion of that on to others and

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back to God in the same sort of way.

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Are there other things that you think sort of prompt a life of generosity, maybe for

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you individually or for us as a church?

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Well, I think Dave touched on this, you know, the joy is in the giving.

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And time and time again, I see that in my own life that, you know, again, it's not why

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we give, but there's the joy that comes back from the giving.

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Right.

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You know, personal example, you know, we have the relationship right now with Trinity with

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Nueva Frontera, but we've had a longstanding relationship with Honduras that goes back

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to, you know, 2000, maybe even a little earlier.

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And you know, I was able to do multiple trips to Honduras with World Vision to visit a local

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area development program and just the joy that came back to me from that was, you know,

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far more than the cost of getting there or the labor we did.

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It was ultimately seeing what we were doing as a church and what I was doing individually.

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It was God's reward to us.

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I would add to that being generous is a freeing experience.

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Right.

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I mean, I remember back when I was, you know, just came to faith and, you know, I was living

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on my own and single and didn't have a lot of money and you often would wonder, you know,

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how I was going to pay the rent and that, you know, just really challenging times.

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And then, you know, my brother led me to faith and it sort of started this journey and, you

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know, lots of conversations about giving.

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And you know, at first I'm like, how can I do that?

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I mean, I struggle to pay the rent and all of that kind of thing.

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But little by little, I grew my giving muscle.

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Sure.

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Right.

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And little by little, I was like, I think I can squeeze out, you know, $10 or whatever

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it was.

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And what I found was, you know, God was faithful in meeting my needs.

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Right.

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And so, and the more I sort of looked back on how God provided in His faithfulness, you

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know, it encouraged me to stretch a little bit more and a little bit more and a little

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bit more.

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And now it's easier.

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I mean, it depends, right?

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But I think it sort of freed me, you know, the grip that I had on money and those resources

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and the worry about it, you know, to just sort of like slowly sort of ease out of that

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and step forward more.

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And there's such joy in that freedom.

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I highly recommend it.

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I think too, generosity brings a healthiness in our lives.

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And I realize everybody's situation is different.

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But it seems to me, and through Scripture, it's very clear in the Old Testament and

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the New Testament was to be generous and care for other people.

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And it hasn't changed.

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It's still that way right now.

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And that's really, I think, important when we live our lives to understand.

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And we're also accepting generosity.

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That's also part of it.

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When somebody does something really special, it doesn't have to be big.

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But to acknowledge it, for example, I remember I was in a line at the grocery store early

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on when we came to Canada and a little boy ahead of me, he was helping his mother doing

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everything, everything.

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And I just, I couldn't resist it.

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I said, I said, you're a really, you're a really good young man.

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I said, can I, I just like to buy you a, I just like to buy you a little treat.

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And the lady behind me said, now you're, what are you doing now?

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Now you're spoiling him or something like that.

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You know, it's kind of knocked the wind out of the whole thing.

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But I do think those moments where we can express is really important, whether it's

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tangible or just a word.

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Because so many people in our busy world oftentimes don't have very good conversation.

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And they're not often, and always seen either.

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You know, it's important that recognition piece is really important.

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So we've started some storytelling already, but maybe can you share a time of when you

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were blessed by someone else's generosity?

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What has that looked like in your own lives?

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Now we're all thinking.

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I remember, you know, just after when my father passed away six years ago now, and we were

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in, the funeral was here at Trinity and then, and no little reception, but then the family

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came back to our house for an Irish wake.

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And we were expecting a lot of people and I was like, how am I going to manage this?

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You know, feeding people and making sure they had something to drink.

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And my best friend and her husband stepped forward and we're going to take care of this.

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You know, you can just relax, enjoy your guests and we're going to man the kitchen, we're

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going to handle all, you know, heating all the, you know, nibblies and making sure there's

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drinks for everyone.

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I was just, and sadly she passed away two years ago, but her legacy lives on.

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I can tell you that.

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But it was just, I was just so, I wasn't really surprised, but because that was her nature

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and she was a generous person, but it made such an impact on me and Al and Alex, you

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know, to be able to spend time with family and, you know, one by one family members would

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wander into the kitchen, you know, to talk to them and find out who are these people.

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But it really, it just freed us up to really have a space to honor my father as family

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members.

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And it just, you know, it brings me to tears just, you know, talking about it now, even

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after six years, but, you know, those actions have huge impact and sometimes with eternal

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consequences too.

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I do remember, and it kind of building a little bit on what you were saying, Liz, this, again,

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this is many years ago, but, you know, I was fairly new to Trinity, I guess I've been here

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about four or five years.

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And my oldest daughter had to go into SickKids for some pretty significant surgery.

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And you know, she was under for 13 hours.

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And out of the blue, I get a call from Harold Percy.

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And he said, listen, I'm coming downtown.

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I just want to spend time with you and Sue.

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Can you tell me where you are?

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You know, went out for coffee.

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And I just had a long talk.

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And that, that, that, that to me epitomized generosity of time, the idea that that he

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just, you know, came all the way downtown, spent time with my wife and I and prayed with

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us and that again, a memory I'll cherish the rest of my life.

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Yeah, what about for you, Dave?

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Oh, so many things to, I think, talk about.

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I guess the big one for us is when our daughter died in the last few years, that was really

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a shocker for us.

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Yeah.

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And, and the church just, you know, just stood and cared for us and extended family, friends.

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I mean, all those sorts of things are really important and they're tremendous gifts when

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you're really up against the wall with things that are just so tragic and difficult.

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And I think for me, that's, it certainly that's been the strongest thing in my immediate experience.

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But I'm just, I'm, I'm always, I'm also intrigued with the idea.

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If we have a generous spirit, it doesn't mean that you're giving everything away or whatever,

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but to have a generous spirit so that people kind of feel that and feel it's a safe place

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to talk to you and be able to say something.

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And I think that's something that's kind of, we don't always appreciate it, but I think

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it's so critical in all of our lives because we all have ups and downs and it's really

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important.

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And that's why I think the whole idea of this is so important.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What, what stands out to me from, from all of your stories is that, you know, these examples

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of generosity that are so meaningful to you aren't significant financial gifts.

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You know, like maybe there's a financial component to it, but really it's that gift of presence.

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It's that gift of taking out the time, the space, the emotional energy to just give of

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yourself and be with other people.

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And I think so often when we think about generosity, as I think you said earlier, we think of it

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in financial terms, but that's, that's really only a small piece of it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And what would our community be like if we didn't, if we weren't generous people, generous

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with our time and welcoming the newcomer, you know, or walking along alongside someone

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who's in difficulty or, you know, whatever it may be.

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I mean, what would it look like without generosity?

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It would not be a great place.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I like the way that you sort of framed it, Dave, that it's a generous spirit that then

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like opens up that space for, for community to really happen.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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And I find so many people just respond with a smile.

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You're busy in the airport and just, you do something just, I enjoy that.

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It's not totally without a, what, a payback because their smile or whatever the engagement

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is just encourages me.

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And I think there's, especially in our busy world today, there's, most people are quite

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open for just a couple of seconds to, to see a smile or an interest in some kind.

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And who knows the impact of that?

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I mean, that smile could have been the only one they got that day or that week, you know,

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and it's caused nothing.

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But I do want to say, let's not miss the money side of things.

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We got a campaign coming.

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Yeah.

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That's true.

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That's true.

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And, and that's important because our, our money, our wealth, our substance are really

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important to us.

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And obviously, but at the same time, we, we kind of have to run it through the same kind

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of screen of, okay, we're people who want to follow Christ.

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We want to love our neighbor.

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Okay.

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How are we going to do that?

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Right.

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And one of the ways you're going to do that, one expression of it is giving financially

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because this doesn't happen without some, some funds that help us do the things that

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God wants us to do.

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So I'm, I'm excited about this campaign.

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I think it'll be great.

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We have lots of opportunities and our church, our church and the wider community that we're

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working in, they're looking to us to be able to help and to, and as well as what we're

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doing within our immediate church community here with all the opportunities we have there

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as well.

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Yeah.

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Well said.

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Yeah.

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And we've mentioned a few times throughout this conversation, the idea that we're generous

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with others and we, you know, we try to bless other people, but actually it does bring benefit

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and blessing on to us as well.

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Like I can think about, you know, when I'm generous with my time, you know, volunteering

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with someone, with an organization or just spending time with someone, like I reap the

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rewards of that relationship as well.

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Or when I give financially to a church or to another organization, just getting to read

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the stories and the impact of that, that financial generosity.

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Yeah.

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So just wondering if you can share, how have you been blessed by being generous and giving

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what God has given to you?

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Or any stories, any memories that come to mind for you?

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Well for me, what comes to my mind was my dad.

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I grew up on a dairy farm and he was moved into sort of machinery.

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We were in a little church that never, we were in a basement and it never, it never

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got above the basement.

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But my dad would always give at church.

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That was, he was a tither and I really grasped that.

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And I think, you know, a parent sets an example, but you still have to decide, do I really

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believe this?

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Do I really want to do this?

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But my dad's discipline about that was really foundational for me.

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And so I kind of feel, you know, there have been moments where I've been not had much

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money or whatever.

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So I understand what that's like.

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But most of my life I've been able to, you know, I've been able to give, I believed in

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the tithing and I tried to do more than that.

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But that's another part of, I think, that's made my spiritual journey, my journey following

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Christ another way.

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It's meaningful to me.

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Sure, yeah.

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And it may seem strange to some people when you're talking about giving money to something

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else.

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But when you think about it, you don't, you buy things that you like, if you wear or whatever

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it is, well, this is the same thing.

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I feel like it, yeah, I feel good about it.

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It's something that I want to do.

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I feel a responsibility.

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For me, I go back to when we had the fire here in 1998, I guess.

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And you know, I was on the parish executive, and I actually don't even remember, I think

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I was either rector's warden or treasurer.

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I don't remember now.

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But you know, and the grief that I was going through personally after the fire, because

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we had a plan to renovate the church, to expand the church.

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We were bursting at the seams.

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And it caused me to question my own faith.

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Is this what God wants us for us at Trinity?

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And the response afterwards, the financial generosity and the giving, but also just people

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gathering and supporting each other in the rebuilding.

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You know, that to me was God's answer, that we knew we were going to get through this,

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and we knew that we were going to be blessed.

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And that to me was, I got way more out of that than what I put in, in terms of my giving

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and my involvement with the parish executive.

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So that will again stay with me.

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Just to build on that, there was a little Pentecostal church, not even in our community.

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I think somewhere in Toronto, and they gave all their mission money to our church.

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We didn't know anybody there, they just stepped up.

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That was to me one of the first signs that God's in this.

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We're going to get through this.

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That's cool.

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I look forward to, now in my role, I see lots of financial information and stuff, but it's

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always astounding to me when I see my own giving statement.

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We send them, or tax receipts, probably better.

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I look at it and I'm like, what?

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Just knowing that my tithe and my offerings are helping to create and support a wonderful

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community and to advance the mission of Trinity and the broader church, introducing people

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to Jesus and unfolding them into a faith community and walking alongside them in their faith

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journey.

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Just like someone walked alongside me when I was a baby Christian.

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I had to learn a lot of stuff and everything seemed really weird at the beginning.

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But just being part of that story and all the journeys of different people and just

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helping to support that in whatever way God invites me to do that, whether it's financial

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giving, but in lots of other ways.

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Being part of this community or any faith community, that's just the best gift that

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you could have, right?

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Being part of the kingdom in this way.

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Thank you all so much, folks, for your generosity and giving me some of your time and your stories.

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Just sharing the ways that you have been impacted by the generosity of others and that you have

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been able to extend that gift.

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Thank you so much.

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For those who are watching, I hope that you were able to pull some nuggets, some inspiration

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from this as well, especially as we move into this Christmas season, that you would think

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about how you can take what God has given you, whether that's finances or time or energy

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or other gifts, and extend that back to others.

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So we'll see you again for next week's episode of Trinity Talk.