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Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Trinity Talks.

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My name is Kyla and I'm the Online Engagement Director here at Trinity.

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And as you might know, this week at Trinity, or this month actually at Trinity, we've been

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looking at the book of Habakkuk and just talking about what do we do in our life when we're

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facing struggles?

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What happens to our faith in those moments?

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And so we've been looking at what that has meant for Habakkuk, but I thought this week

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it would be really great if we sat down with some folks who are members here at Trinity

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and just talked about, okay, what does this look like for them in their real lives today?

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And so I am super excited to have Annie and Laura joining me on the podcast.

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Welcome ladies.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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So we're going to sort of dive right into it.

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And my first question is, can you just describe a moment in your life when you were going

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through something that was difficult and how did your faith really help you in that moment?

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Maybe we'll start with you, Laura.

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Okay, sure.

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Well, there have been tons of moments, but I think I'll talk about, it was in March 1998

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and actually things were going along pretty well.

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I thought it was, I had not been working for about a year and a half, which was great because

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it allowed me a chance to do church lady stuff, galore, and yet, and get closer to my kids,

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my three daughters.

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And so it was kind of a good time.

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But then my eldest daughter, Leah, she's 14, she got sick with what seemed like the flu.

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And usually she gets better in a few days if she's sick.

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But I was told that a lot of people at her school were out down for the count for maybe

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as much as a week.

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So I thought, oh, well, this is just a really bad flu.

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But we took her to the doctor.

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The doctor said, oh yeah, I'm not concerned.

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It's just a bad flu.

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So that's what we thought.

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And one morning, my middle daughter, Tori, went downstairs and she said, mom, dad, come

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quick.

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You know, there's something wrong with Leah.

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And she, we came downstairs and she was on the floor having a seizure and she wasn't

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responsive.

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So we called the ambulance and went to Credit Valley and they did tests and she still wasn't

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really responsive.

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And I remember them saying, we're going to send her down to SickKids Hospital.

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And I also remember a nurse saying to me, is there anyone else you should call?

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And I just thought, like, it was just like being put into an alternate, alternate universe

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kind of thing.

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And so, so basically, yeah, went down to SickKids, didn't know what it was.

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They put her on life support, like, and anyway, I was there with her for six weeks and, and

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just hoping and praying for the best.

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And it didn't, it didn't happen.

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She six weeks later, she, she passed away.

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Wow.

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And so what was your faith like during that time, during those six weeks?

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So well, yeah, there were times where I think it was that maybe that I couldn't, sometimes

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I just couldn't pray.

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I remember the first few days I couldn't pray.

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I had to, people visited and they prayed for me because I could not.

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And what I did was I think I just, I kept a journal and that was sort of how I was able

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to just kind of process things.

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And sometimes I would put prayers in my journal.

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But that's, I don't know.

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Yeah.

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It was a, it was a challenging time, but at least I had been introduced to the faith.

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Because I didn't really live a faith-filled life up until just a few years prior.

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So then I was kind of, you know, drinking it all in.

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And so that was, so that, I was just grateful that I had that background and that I had

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people supporting me.

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It was amazing the support of people from church, from community Bible study, family

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and friends.

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Like they would come and just sit with me and pray.

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And that part, that part was amazing support.

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Yeah.

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That's great.

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What about for you Annie, what's been a difficult moment in your life and what did your faith

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look like during that time?

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Well, I have had many difficult moments, but perhaps I'll talk about a defining moment

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other than the most difficult.

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Sure.

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Because you know, I lost parents, I lost siblings.

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And, but I'm going to talk about one particular area of my life, fear, where I think that

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my faith or the Holy Spirit really helped me overcome that fear.

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And my mother died when I was quite young at the operating table.

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It was a fluke really.

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She didn't, she had breast cancer, but it hadn't spread actually.

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But you know, just during the time that she was being, she was getting an aesthetic, there

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were a group of residents and they made an error and she went into a coma and never recovered.

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And I think I didn't realize what impact that had on me until I faced surgery, you know,

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having surgery and I was terrified.

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And I didn't realize the psychological implications of that, you know, that how much I had been

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traumatized and I think buried the emotion, you know, and the more I talk to people, the

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worse I got because everybody was looking at it from a philosophical point of view,

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telling me how medicine was so much more advanced in Canada and nothing like that could, like

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what happened to my mother could happen to me.

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And that wasn't helpful.

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But came, there came along a woman that I'd known that I'd actually been working with

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that I was supposed to visit in a couple of weeks and she happened to be in Toronto.

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She lived in Saskatchewan and she said, well, I guess you're getting ready to come to Saskatchewan.

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And I said, I can't.

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And I said, can I spend an hour with you to talk to you?

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And I told, you know, it was the first time I bared my heart and talked about all my insecurities,

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you know, cause the other people I felt and were not validating my feelings and it wasn't

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deliberate, but you know, that's how it turned out.

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And she listened to me and she said to me, you were practically a child when this happened

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to you.

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So it's only normal that you'd react the way you, you have reacted.

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And she said, is that little voice, that little girl in you that's crying for help and you're

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suppressing that little girl.

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She put it, cause she was a psychologist.

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So she put it in psychological terms that made sense to me.

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And anyway, I won't get into the things that she suggested I do.

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I'll focus on the spiritual part of what she suggested because she was spiritual.

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And she said to me, you know, you need to make affirmations and it's up to you what

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you choose.

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You know, and she said, and I said, a Bible would be good.

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And actually at that time I didn't have a Bible.

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So I bought one and I chose scripture biblical.

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I mean, I chose scripture and I, for she said every 10 minutes recite that scripture.

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Yeah.

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And I did that for, could have been 10 hours.

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Yeah.

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Going, oh, you know, and it's interesting because by the time I was ready to have surgery,

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I was so calm that a friend of mine who had been talking to me and probably the only one

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that was comforting me more than anybody else just listening to me was terrified that because

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I was so calm, you know, it was like 360 degrees.

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Sure.

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You know, and she's, you know, so she, anyway, I was calm and I just kept on with my affirmation.

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Yeah.

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But, um, 10 years later I face another surgery and for this one, um, it was my thyroid and

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I'd had a biopsy and I'd thought the doctor had assured me there was nothing to it.

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But when the results came back, I had, it was the biopsy showed it was positive in,

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in other words, it could be malignant.

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But they had to operate to find out for sure.

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So and my reaction was completely the opposite of what I'd gone through 10 years earlier.

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And I, when the doctor called me and told me the news and I hung up from the, you know,

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from speaking to him, I knelt down and I prayed.

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And my prayer was God, two of my friends had died of cancer two months before.

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And my prayer was not God cure my cancer if I have it.

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But I said, whatever it is, give me peace.

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That's all I prayed for.

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And did he give me peace?

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Little did I know that I was actually invoking the Holy Spirit.

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And I had to wait for four months before I had the surgery.

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But that entire time, despite being on a contract, I had a contract job.

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And if I ended up having cancer, it would mean that I actually would not be able to

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have an income.

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I wouldn't have an income.

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Yeah, maybe I would have an unemployment, but I had a mortgage.

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So there were many, many reasons why I should have been really scared.

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But each time I thought about any negative thing, it's like it disappeared.

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And when I decided that time, I thought, I'm not going to tell a lot of people about this

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because they're going to start scaring me and say, Oh my God, you had a positive.

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I didn't talk about it.

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And I actually didn't need to because the Holy Spirit was holding me up.

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So I went for surgery and I came out and the day I went to get my results, they were not

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ready.

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So I had to go back two weeks later, but I was still very calm.

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And then I went to get the results and the person who was talking to me, the person who

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was talking to me was giving me the results, didn't even talk about the results first.

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He talked about other things and it's after a while I said, so what were the results?

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And he said, Oh, sorry.

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There was nothing.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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It was really powerful and defining moment in my spiritual life.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah.

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Cause it's something I've looked back on.

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And so whenever I face a situation, I remember how the Holy Spirit held me up, but I didn't

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realize it was the Holy Spirit.

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Sure.

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And one day somebody asked me, so have you ever experienced the presence of the Holy

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Spirit?

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Right.

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And he said, no, but I had just been relating this story and he said, so what do you think

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that was all about?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And for you, Laura, in the midst of that, that challenge of those six weeks of waiting

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in the hospital and then obviously the long process afterwards, how did you experience

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God's presence in those moments?

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Or did you feel like you experienced God's presence?

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Well, I did.

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There was like in the hospital, there was a, every now and then my words just go, what's

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the name of the religious guy at a hospital?

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Oh, the chaplain.

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Thank you.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Michael Marshall, I remember his name was Michael Marshall.

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So I could go to him and ask questions.

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You know, like I just didn't understand why this was happening.

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So I had that and Debbie Dennis was the associate priest here at Trinity and she came and visited

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a couple of times and was, you know, and answered some of my questions.

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And then I was very fortunate to have friends who were also Stephen ministers, so they did

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a very good job at supporting me.

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And yeah, I remember like, cause one night, one night I was consumed with guilt that I

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hadn't been a good mother to my daughter.

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And my, actually my former husband at the time said call Anne and I did.

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And although I was in downtown Toronto, she lived in Mississauga.

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She had a headache.

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It was like nine 30 at night.

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She drove all the way downtown to sit with me.

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Cause that's what it's all about.

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When you're going through something that you just can't cope with, just to have someone

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sit with you.

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And she just said, you know, you do the best you can with what you have at the time.

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And so, and that's what just enabled me to kind of get through that night.

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And then an interesting thing about what happened the night, the day that she died wasn't a

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good day.

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No, it was, it was pretty awful.

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And I remember just leaving, leaving the hospital was so hard because I, it was like just leave,

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to leave her was so hard.

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But then I remember that night I thought, I began to wonder, is there a God?

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Like, why did he do this?

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Where is she?

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I don't know.

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And, and I remember I looked at my watch for some reason.

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And so this would have been like 10 o'clock at night or something.

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But I looked at my watch and it said it was 2 30 and I went to 30.

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And then I remembered she died at 2 30.

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And I thought, like, cause I don't know, was there some electrical charge when a solo leaves

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them?

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Like I didn't know.

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But then it just, everything kind of came back.

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You know, the doctors that actually planned, well, they did, they took her off life support

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the day before on a Thursday, but she didn't die that day.

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And I thought I was getting a miracle.

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But the next day I woke up and I kind of knew, I just knew in my gut that something was going

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to happen that day.

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But I thought about it when, when my, the whole thing with my watch and I thought, Oh

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my goodness, she was born on a Friday at 2 30 and she died on a Friday at 2 30.

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And that was just enough to get me through the first night.

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Cause it's, you're just going through day by day at that time.

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And then, and then just another thing, I don't know why, for some reason, a Toronto Sun reporter

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called wanted to do a story.

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And then she listened to my story and she said, Oh, for Mother's Day, cause it was coming

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up to Mother's Day.

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And she said, that is too sad a story for Mother's Day.

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And she left.

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And so I don't know what happened, but I went upstairs to my computer and I went, I just

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started typing and I went, some may say this is too sad a story for Mother's Day, but isn't

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it really all what it is to be a mother?

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And I just wrote and then I wrote this, I'm just going to read it now.

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Cause it's kind of like the Holy Spirit spoke to me.

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It's very short.

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It won't take up the whole time, but it's called about miracles.

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A lot of people have been praying for a miracle that despite all the odds, Leah would, would

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survive and we all would have another chance to be better parents, aunts, uncles, cousins,

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friends.

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But miracles are funny things.

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They're not always what we see.

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Sort of like praying for one thing and getting another.

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We feel like saying, I'm sorry, God, you got that wrong.

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I didn't ask for that.

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Well God's ways are not our ways.

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And I take comfort in believing that the more the ways of the world makes sense to us, the

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further away we are from what really makes sense.

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I believe that a lot of miracles have occurred over the past several weeks.

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I'm certain that despite the physical manifestations of Leah's illness, she felt at peace inside.

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Although she could not speak to us, her spirit did hear all the loving words, feel all the

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caring touches and gloried in the many heartfelt prayers.

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Leah was a gift to us, one we neither deserved nor paid for.

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She was never ours to, she was never ours to own, only ours to care for and enjoy.

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And then just the ending is just as a mother, my wish is that Leah's legacy would be this,

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that all parents ensure that their children know they are cherished beyond any job, material

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possession or other distractions so that every night each child can go to bed knowing how

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much he or she is loved.

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And in spite of any disagreements or harsh words that may have preceded bedtime.

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So that if that day were to be their last, that child would be able to say that he or

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she felt loved because that's all that really matters.

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So anyway, so I think that was just the Holy Spirit giving me that.

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Yeah, the thanks.

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Instead of being overcome with the loss, just the gratitude that he had given her to us

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and that she was special.

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And then I wrote about it 10 years later when I got restructured out of a job.

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It's just like bad things, seemingly bad things happen.

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But then I had the time to kind of process everything and write it all up.

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So you've both shared about how in the midst of some really challenging moments, prayer

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has been difficult, but it's been present.

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People have sometimes been difficult, but they've also been very present.

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And so I'm just wondering, what would you say to anyone else who's going through some

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sort of a struggle, someone who is asking, you know, where is God in this?

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What might you offer to them?

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I actually would say pray for peace, but like I said, in my first encounter with, you know,

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facing surgery, affirmations played a big role in calming me down.

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So that's one of the things I would say.

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And the reason I emphasize peace is because sometimes we can't change the outcome of a

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situation.

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But if God, if we invoke the Holy Spirit to give us strength and give us peace, we can

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get through that situation.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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What about you, Laura?

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Okay, so the question is, what would you say to someone who's struggling and asking where

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God is?

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I think, well, first I would just want to sit and listen.

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Sure.

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I wouldn't want to give them any pat answers.

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Of course.

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One of the things I would say is one woman that I know, she once said to me when I was

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going through another difficult time, she just said, remember, God is always with you

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in all ways.

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And I don't know, you just, sometimes you won't even recognize at the time that he's

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there because it's such a difficult thing to be going through.

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But later on you'll see it.

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You know, you'll see that he was there in just the fact that someone is just kind of

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almost magically there, like somebody you need to say just the right words to, or that

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they will say just the right words to you.

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But yeah, just to know that he is always there, that he loves you, and that he doesn't promise

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that there won't be pain, but he will give you grace to carry on through it in various

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ways.

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Yeah.

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What I'd like to say, I think what you mentioned is very important that when you start speaking

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to a person, say who's just lost a loved one, is probably saying something might make it

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worse.

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Sure.

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That listening as Laura and I as Stephen ministers and listening is a big part of ministering

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to somebody who is grieving or going through some hard time.

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And I would agree with you about that, that what I said earlier about the fact that I

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would prescribe or suggest script, you know, affirmations, it's something that might not

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come immediately after.

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I mean, when I meet the person, but I think along the grief, the journey of grieving,

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that is something that would be helpful.

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Yeah.

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So I wanted to emphasize that, that you need to gauge and see where the person is at.

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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Well, thank you so much, ladies, for sharing just a part of your story with us for being

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so open and vulnerable.

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And yeah, for hopefully folks who are listening have found some sense of encouragement, some

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sense of at least feeling like we're not alone in this, you know, and you can reach

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out to God through prayer, we can reach out to each other.

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And so for those who are listening, thank you for joining us and tuning in for this

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week's episode of Trinity Talks.

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And I do hope that you are able to find some comfort and encouragement in your hard times.

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And if there is anything that we can do here at Trinity to help support you in that, please

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do reach out.

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You can send me an email, kyla, k-y-l-a-h at trinitystreetsville.org and I would be happy

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to connect with you.

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And we'll see you again for next week's episode of Trinity Talks.