1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Thank you for joining me. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,320 Well thank you, I feel very welcome. 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:06,920 Yes, you're just going from one thing to the next, 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,280 to the next here. 5 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,640 Never a dull moment at Trinity. 6 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,560 You actually joined us last year 7 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,920 for one Sunday in the summer. 8 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,520 We were just at one service at that point. 9 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,920 And then now you get to do two. 10 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,880 So that's right. 11 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,160 It's a real pleasure to be here. 12 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,800 Rob and I worked together briefly at a previous parish. 13 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,480 So it's always a good day when he reaches out 14 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,600 and says, is there any chance you could come 15 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,440 when I'm away? 16 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:31,800 I'm happy to do that. 17 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,720 It was a pleasure to have you for the sermon 18 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,480 and to lead the service. 19 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:38,400 Certainly if you missed the sermon 20 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,960 that Sandra shared with us, 21 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,800 make sure to find it on YouTube 22 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,680 or even just stay tuned for our next live stream service 23 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,880 where you're going to hear it again. 24 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,480 Cause it was a wonderful, very insightful message. 25 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:51,160 Now Sandra, as you know, 26 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,120 we have been working through a sermon series 27 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,800 all summer long about the book of Psalms, 28 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,800 which we are really trying to uphold as the Bible's songbook. 29 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,920 So yeah, we're calling the sermon series 30 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,480 actually summer playlist. 31 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,280 So I wanted to start the questions off 32 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,800 with a tough one for you. 33 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,880 What is on your summer playlist this summer? 34 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,640 Well, that's a fun question to start with. 35 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,480 It is. 36 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,520 I'm going to tell you what I listened to on my way here 37 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,120 and then maybe a couple others. 38 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,000 I was listening to an album called Deep Magic 39 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,200 by John Mark McMillan. 40 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,880 The album was released last fall. 41 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,880 A couple of other albums though that are on my list this summer. 42 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,000 There was a Bruce Coburn one released not too long ago, 43 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,360 Oh Sun, Oh Moon, 44 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,080 or might have that backwards, maybe Oh Moon, Oh Sun, 45 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:36,240 but that one. 46 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,320 And then there's Mike Janssen's Volume Three, 47 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:40,800 which was also released in the last year. 48 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,080 So all three of those kind of cycle in depending on 49 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,240 how contemplative I am 50 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,200 or how much I need a bit of energy to get the one. 51 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,640 Excellent. All right, perfect. 52 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,640 Make sure to check those out 53 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,960 and listen to those on your Spotify, everyone. 54 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,400 But for those of us who don't know you that well, 55 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,400 we are only here really once a year at this rate. 56 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,440 Could you just tell us a little bit about yourself? 57 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Sure. 58 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,560 Well, I live in Toronto, as you mentioned. 59 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,720 I live with my husband and we've been married 26 years 60 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,840 and we have what we call an open nest in our house at this time. 61 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,160 Our two kids are ones going into university 62 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,280 and ones in third year. 63 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,400 So they kind of come in and out a little bit of our house. 64 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:21,760 They're not completely gone. 65 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,440 Certain semesters they're home, that sort of thing. 66 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,440 So and we really enjoy the city that we live in. 67 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,680 We've been here now, 68 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,280 lived in different places through our lives. 69 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,960 We moved back to the Toronto area in about 2016. 70 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,800 Okay. 71 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,360 And what else do you probably want to know about me? 72 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,400 I'm ordained Anglican minister. 73 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,040 I'm also trained in social work. 74 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:47,040 So my current occupation is actually to work at a nonprofit 75 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,040 using those blended skills 76 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,440 of both social work administration and ordained leadership. 77 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,160 And then other kind of fun things. 78 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,320 I still like to play ice hockey. 79 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,960 I'm in a over 35 women's league and I love tea. 80 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,440 Okay. Wonderful. 81 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:06,280 All right. 82 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,040 So you mentioned that you lived in different places. 83 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,840 So where are some of those places? 84 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,280 In our 26 years together, 85 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,800 my husband and I have lived in a couple of different places. 86 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,600 About 15 years in the States in a couple of different spots. 87 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,800 I actually did my seminary down there. 88 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:21,840 We lived in New York city 89 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,560 or the outskirts of that about 10 years. 90 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,880 We spent two years in Chennai, India. 91 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,040 And I think that's sort of the quick summary of it. 92 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,840 Wow. Wonderful. All right. And here you are. 93 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,680 Well, so you did mention you're an ordained minister. 94 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:37,680 What led you? 95 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,960 I'm wondering to that calling because it is a calling. 96 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,200 It is a calling. 97 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,280 And you know, I could probably spend several hours 98 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,440 talking through the nuances of that. 99 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,160 But I guess I want to start by saying, 100 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,960 if someone's watching this and wondering, 101 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,040 then it's good to listen to those nudgings. 102 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,120 So I'm a person who God speaks to in different ways. 103 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,840 But when God speaks through my gut, 104 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:10,840 then I listen really carefully because I sense it 105 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,080 and then I need to sort it out. 106 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,040 So that's what happened back in 2001, 107 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,240 which is quite a long time ago now. 108 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,480 But it actually took eight years 109 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,800 from that first sensing to ordination. 110 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,800 So that's why it's quite a long story. 111 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:25,680 OK. 112 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,120 I was already in a church community. 113 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,920 I was already connected into a rescue mission at the time. 114 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,880 We were living in New York City. 115 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,120 So I began to explore what that might mean 116 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,840 by trying different ministries at the church. 117 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:41,560 Took about a year, almost a year and a half 118 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,760 before I even talked to my pastor. 119 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,640 Because before that I tried things. 120 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:45,680 I took a course. 121 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,120 I sort of went into my head a little bit 122 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,000 to try to talk myself out of it. 123 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,320 But it just didn't go away. 124 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,720 And so I began those conversations in prayer. 125 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,640 So if someone's watching this and they're like, 126 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,280 I wonder if I'm supposed to do something more in ministry. 127 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:03,160 Yes, step into something. 128 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,720 Talk to people who are doing the something 129 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,640 that you're wondering about. 130 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,600 And then have accountability and start praying with folks. 131 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,080 In the process I went through, there was actually a committee, 132 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,840 like a whole group set up in the parish that 133 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:17,720 walked with me through a whole year 134 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,920 to ask all kinds of questions before we even 135 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,600 went to the diocese. 136 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,520 So it was quite a slow process, which is good. 137 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Because I think for the first five years of it, 138 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,360 I thought maybe God just wanted me to do the process. 139 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,040 That it wasn't actually about the ordination, 140 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,120 but actually just about getting closer to God. 141 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,840 And it is that. 142 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:35,800 And it still stays that. 143 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,280 But the end result of being ordained was in his plan. 144 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:41,440 And so that's how I'm here today. 145 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,840 It'll be 15 years this fall. 146 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:45,160 That's a wonderful story. 147 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,200 Thank you for that. 148 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Thank you for that. 149 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,320 I hear so much patience and the importance of community 150 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,120 and prayer, and then just being faithful to those nudging. 151 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,840 Yeah, I mean, ordination isn't something 152 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:57,880 you do in isolation, right? 153 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,040 If God's calling you, God's calling you 154 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,800 to serve with others and in community with others 155 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,960 and for the world itself. 156 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,600 So it's something that should be discerned collectively. 157 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Which I think those things that you just mentioned 158 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,160 are also present in the nonprofit work that you do, right? 159 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,000 I believe it's the Young Street Mission that you work at right now. 160 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,280 So could you tell us a little bit about what that role is? 161 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:24,800 And maybe even a little bit about the Young Street Mission 162 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,040 itself. 163 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,360 Yeah, the Young Street Mission has been in Toronto 164 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,480 and serving the city for over 125 years. 165 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Started in the late 1800s. 166 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,560 It was started by Baptist pastor. 167 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,600 And it's a place that's always been about blending hope 168 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,840 and bread. 169 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:45,440 So there's always physical sustenance 170 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,680 and the believing in people until they believe in themselves. 171 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,480 The focus is to both alleviate poverty and eradicate poverty. 172 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,400 So our programming and services run the gamut from daycare, 173 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,280 food bank, all the way to some system change work, 174 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,000 some community work, working with the city 175 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,000 on some of their poverty alleviation strategies. 176 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,400 It's quite a range. 177 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:08,080 OK. 178 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,680 We've got a couple of locations. 179 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,920 One in the east side of Toronto, one used to be on Young Street, 180 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,800 but it's moved over to Spadina, hence the name. 181 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:15,880 OK. 182 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,640 That center is focused more on youth. 183 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,240 So there we have employment programs, health. 184 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,040 We actually have a free dental clinic, health clinic. 185 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,280 So shout out to anybody whose medical provider wants 186 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,280 to volunteer, always looking for volunteers. 187 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:27,080 OK. 188 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,720 We even have a church that meets for those who feel they can't. 189 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,160 We're welcome in other communities, 190 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,200 meets on Sunday afternoon. 191 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,040 So quite a range of things that happen there at Young Street 192 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,320 Mission, all with this hope to help people move from surviving 193 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,080 to thriving in the full sense of that word 194 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,120 as we were made it by God and created in God's image 195 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,880 so that we can live into that goodness that God has for us. 196 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,440 What a great mission. 197 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,600 That's wonderful. 198 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,960 One thing that we love here at Trinity is stories. 199 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,080 We really appreciate the power of storytelling. 200 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,640 Do you have any stories from the Young Street Mission 201 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,320 that you've seen as maybe stories of success 202 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,880 or as stories of thriving that you've seen? 203 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Yeah. 204 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,440 I mean, I'll give you sort of little anecdotes. 205 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,080 The long stories where there's a dramatic change are ones 206 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,200 that usually take a couple of years. 207 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,040 But for example, on Friday, we had a carnival celebrating 208 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,040 our camp, just like you have a camp here. 209 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,560 We have a camp that runs in the summertime. 210 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,520 And it was open to the members of that camp, to the food bank, 211 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,880 to whoever was part of our community to bring their children. 212 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,040 And there was one woman who came brought by a friend. 213 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,880 And she found me because I was wearing my lanyard 214 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,840 and almost everyone else had matching t-shirts. 215 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,480 So I didn't have the matching t-shirt. 216 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:46,440 So I wore the lanyard. 217 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:47,440 Get Sandra a t-shirt. 218 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,640 Yeah. 219 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,800 I don't need a summer camp t-shirt. 220 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,240 But anyway, I wore the lanyard. 221 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,080 She came to me because she saw, oh, this person works here. 222 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,440 And she said, this is good. 223 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,120 I want my child to start the classes. 224 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,840 And so that small event, which was intended for fun, 225 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,120 created enough safety and broke down social isolation 226 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,960 so that she now trusts us with her child. 227 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,480 Even just that gives you the kind of sense 228 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,920 of how we look at success, which 229 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,960 means that her child will get that extra computer literacy 230 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,880 training if that child happens to be in grade four or five 231 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,880 and completes the courses. 232 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,560 They'll get a computer so that they are better equipped 233 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:28,280 for their elementary education. 234 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,720 Because she came to a carnival and saw what was happening. 235 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,760 So there's just a story from Friday. 236 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,840 We have stories like that that come out of our health center 237 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,440 and stories that come out of our counseling. 238 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,280 But that's a snippet from just this week. 239 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:43,520 That's a great story. 240 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,320 That's a great story. 241 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,880 And I'm sure just one small glimmer 242 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,280 of all the work that's done there. 243 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,520 So I'm just going to shift gears a little bit to what we were 244 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,960 really doing today here at Trinity, which was reading 245 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,640 and then reflecting on the Psalms. 246 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,000 And you reflected on Psalm 51. 247 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,040 But I'm wondering if you personally 248 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,400 have any favorite Psalms, or how do you experience them, 249 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,640 or how have you experienced the Psalms in the past? 250 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,680 Yeah, I mean, so I'll try to answer that in a couple of ways. 251 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:17,320 Like formally, as someone who is trained in the Anglican 252 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:22,440 Church, our daily office, which maybe you kind of turn most 253 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,160 people not familiar with, it's sort of the daily readings 254 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,000 that are scheduled for you if you want to participate in them. 255 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,760 So if you're not sure how to read the Bible, 256 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,520 there's actually a plan. 257 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:32,720 Like you don't have to make it up. 258 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,720 You don't have to click on an app and be like, ah, 259 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,040 which one looks good to me today? 260 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600 No, there's a plan that'll get you through the scripture 261 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,680 in about three years. 262 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:42,680 That office has Psalms embedded in it. 263 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:44,440 So if you're reading that regularly, 264 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,160 you're hearing the Psalms. 265 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,200 That's one way I've interacted with it kind of just devotionally. 266 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,520 But I would say from a personal point of view, 267 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:59,640 my husband and I engraved Psalm 343 on our wedding bands. 268 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,320 And so that I would have to probably pick. 269 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:03,400 Can't pick a different one. 270 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,840 That is got to be written. 271 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,920 It's right there on the ring. 272 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,200 Let us exalt the Lord together. 273 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Come, let us exalt the Lord together. 274 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,880 But it's not just a Psalm about being together 275 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,280 and kind of keeping our focus on God. 276 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,280 If you read that rest of that Psalm, 277 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,120 there's a whole section in there about God 278 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,280 hearing the cry of the poor. 279 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,480 There's a section about how in response to that, 280 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,600 we are called to seek peace and pursue it. 281 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,400 So it's quite a rich Psalm. 282 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,320 It's not just about what happens on a Sunday. 283 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,960 And both my husband and I have our lives and our callings 284 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:40,960 are in service. 285 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,240 So he works internationally. 286 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,080 And I've always been working domestically. 287 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,480 So it resonates with both of us, both in terms 288 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,200 of how we want to be together, but also how we want to be 289 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,080 in the world. 290 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:50,560 OK. 291 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,240 And how God hears the world. 292 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,160 Like, we do that work knowing that God's in front of us. 293 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:58,080 Excellent. 294 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:58,960 I love that. 295 00:11:58,960 --> 00:11:59,560 Thank you. 296 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:01,880 I did not expect you to have it written right there 297 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:02,480 in your ring. 298 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,080 So what a great answer. 299 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:03,360 Yeah, you know what? 300 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,760 I thought about trying to take it off, 301 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,720 but it doesn't come off so easily. 302 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,680 I'm sitting like, it's like, it's like, it's a bit stong. 303 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,360 It might also not show up well on the camera. 304 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:10,960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 305 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,280 So it's like, yeah, it's engraved inside. 306 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:13,880 I love that. 307 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,560 That's wonderful. 308 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:17,560 And now we're going to talk about another topic, which 309 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,240 I must say is probably not a hot topic that 310 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,280 comes up in daily conversation. 311 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,560 That's a conversation of confession. 312 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,000 We don't usually just start talking about confession. 313 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,120 However, it is an important part of our belief, 314 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:32,960 an important part of our faith. 315 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,880 So I'm wondering if you could just 316 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,160 share with us a little bit more about maybe 317 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,200 your personal belief on the importance 318 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,720 of the practice of confession. 319 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,560 Yeah, well, when Rob asked me to come this morning 320 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,760 and take a service, it wasn't until a little bit later 321 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,880 that I found out what the topic was. 322 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,920 He roped you in first. 323 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,320 Yeah, he roped me in first and then said, by the way, 324 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:55,480 we're looking at Psalm 51. 325 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,880 And I was like, oh, great. 326 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,640 Confession isn't something we do talk about too much. 327 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,440 I think in our society, we see apology maybe as exactly 328 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:10,440 the same as confession. 329 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,360 So hopefully one of the things that 330 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,320 can come out if you listen to that sermon 331 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,200 is how kind of relational apologies aren't 332 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,000 the same thing as confession. 333 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,960 Not to say we shouldn't be apologizing and continuing 334 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,120 to try to be in right relationship with one another. 335 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,240 But biblical confession is really about keeping 336 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,040 our relationship right with God and recognizing where we may 337 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,400 have gotten it wrong with ourselves, with our neighbors, 338 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,040 and the world. 339 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,920 But it is fundamentally not just a transactional experience. 340 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,120 It's a relational one that leads into other steps 341 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,000 that allows us to live into the grace that God gives us. 342 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,440 So the why is really that it's kind of like a foundational block 343 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,440 of truth and honesty. 344 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,720 And it's the way we express that to God. 345 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,240 The how is where people get a little bit, I think, caught up. 346 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,800 So I mean, I wouldn't mind talking. 347 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,200 I didn't get into that in the sermon 348 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,080 because we're really looking at that scripture. 349 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,400 But there are maybe a couple of things 350 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,000 to help people see on the how. 351 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,480 Sure. 352 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:10,440 It's a good time to talk about it. 353 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,000 Absolutely. 354 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:11,840 OK, we do. 355 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,760 So just kind of from a practical way, 356 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,000 if you are already someone who prays, 357 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,200 then the Lord's Prayer, which is the sort of most famous prayer 358 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,400 of Jesus, has a line in it that actually says, 359 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,720 forgive us our sins or trespasses, 360 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,040 depending on which or debts, depending on which translation 361 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,280 you have. 362 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,880 So right there, there's a chance. 363 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,560 So right there, if that's something that's 364 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,120 already part of your practice, you can just pause. 365 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,600 Instead of just kind of rushing through it, 366 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,360 just pause at that line and reflect on, 367 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,200 since the last time you said that prayer, 368 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,200 is there anything specific that God might bring to mind? 369 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,640 So that's something we can do on a daily. 370 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,480 On the weekly, if you're coming to church, 371 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,320 then it's usually embedded in a service, 372 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,600 whether it's this church or others, 373 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,560 confession is usually embedded in that actual liturgical 374 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,000 practice. 375 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,600 On a more monthly basis, so I typically 376 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,000 encourage people to be in some kind of accountability group. 377 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,920 It's a Bible study. 378 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,280 Maybe you're going to be in banter or something 379 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,200 somewhere where you can have people that you can talk to truthfully. 380 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,120 And so there it's not quite as formal, 381 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,040 but even in that Psalm we heard today, the beginning of it, 382 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,240 it's like it's a public acknowledgement. 383 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,720 So just telling God sometimes doesn't 384 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,040 root it in the same way as you're 385 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,000 able to when you have someone you can trust to say, listen, 386 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,520 I've said this to God. 387 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,880 I'm saying it to you because I need you to help me not 388 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,200 keep the pattern up. 389 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,400 So that accountability, some kind of accountability, 390 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,440 Bible study, that kind of thing. 391 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,560 And then on a yearly basis, there's like Lent. 392 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,440 So in this church tradition, usually the 40 days before Easter, 393 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,080 there's a space to really do that collectively as a community. 394 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,840 And if all of that, you're like, gosh, I'm still holding a lot. 395 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,840 Our church, this one and others actually 396 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,720 have liturgical services that's called reconciliation. 397 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:00,680 And you can ask for that. 398 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,360 You can call someone at the church office 399 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:03,320 and say, you know what, I actually 400 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,960 feel I need to talk about something specific. 401 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,160 I'd like to have a service of reconciliation. 402 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,560 And it's a sort of formal way of doing it. 403 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,800 And for those of us who are ordained, at least in my diocese 404 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,120 when I went through, it was required 405 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,240 to do a whole life confession before you got ordained 406 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,680 with this thought that it's a new beginning, a new start. 407 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,600 And so it used that format that's in everybody's prayer book 408 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,960 if you're Anglican. 409 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,880 But then we just adjusted a little part of it. 410 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,000 So there's lots of ways embedded in how we already 411 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,920 live our lives that we can just kind of pause or add to incorporate 412 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,720 this just a little bit more so that we're not just like, 413 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,040 you get to the end of the day and can't 414 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,920 remember what happened in the morning. 415 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,000 Yep, that happens. 416 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:47,960 It can happen, right? 417 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,040 So, so busy. 418 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,160 So, so I love that. 419 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Those practices can help. 420 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,840 A daily, a weekly, monthly, and yearly. 421 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:54,440 There you go. 422 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,560 And then the practice of reconciliation. 423 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:58,280 As needed. 424 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:58,960 As needed. 425 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,040 Yeah, thank you very much. 426 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,320 I think that's something that helps all personally. 427 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,560 And I think probably for many of us who are listening as well. 428 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:06,920 So that's, that's great. 429 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,600 Very wise and very practical as well. 430 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,000 So before we wrap up, I'm just wondering what the rest of your 431 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,320 summer is going to look like. 432 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:15,720 We still have a couple of weeks left. 433 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,080 Do you have any summer plans, Sandra? 434 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,760 Well, you know, this is a time of transition 435 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,120 if you're a university student. 436 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:25,240 So the next couple of weeks is all about us supporting our kids. 437 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,040 Yes. 438 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,720 Our daughter heads off a little bit early. 439 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,120 Her school starts in mid-August. 440 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,800 So next week we're off to drop her off there. 441 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,160 And then my son, who's been studying abroad this summer, 442 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:35,760 comes back. 443 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,960 So we welcome him back into the household. 444 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,280 So I think that for me, the peace is going to come, 445 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,080 or the pause that some people put in their summers. 446 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,280 That's going to come for me in September once 447 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:49,960 their cell back in its green. 448 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,400 Going back to that open nest. 449 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,520 That open nesting that in and out. 450 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,040 So the next couple of weeks are just about those transitions. 451 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,400 Well, best of luck to them and best of luck to you 452 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,600 through those transitions. 453 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:00,040 Thank you. 454 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,920 And thank you again just for this conversation. 455 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,840 And we'll see you just in a few moments 456 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,000 when we begin our 11-15 service. 457 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:31,520 Thanks, Andrews, to be there.