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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend, Julia Robertson.

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Hello, thank you for having me.

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No worries, thank you for coming on.

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So I've got a big first and foremost question, Julia.

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Who are you and what do you do?

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What do you do?

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What do you do?

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Who am I?

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I'm all things, everything.

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Gosh, I am a multidisciplinary, theatre-based artist.

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God, who am I?

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I'm a dog lover.

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I'm a 32-year-old woman.

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I'm also a teacher.

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I'm a musician.

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I'm an actor, a director.

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It's hard not to base yourself off of your work, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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I'm invested in, I mean, every single part of my life is theatre-related.

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And so that's very much how I define myself.

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But I guess that is who I am and what I do are all those things as well.

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You're kind of a collective, like a hub mind.

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Yes, I am 12 different people in the same body.

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Yeah, that's called schizophrenia.

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Ideally, that's me.

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It's kind of extraordinary because I think you have been on my radar for as long as I

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can remember Instagram being around, which has probably been the last five or six years

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that I've used it.

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But yeah, you've just been this sort of sheer force of nature, which is a little bit bizarre

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in a way.

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A bizarre force of nature.

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My close friends call me that.

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But I mean, do you kind of feel like, even at 32, that sort of all this hard work and

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all this longevity has sort of kind of been like a bit surreal still?

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Look, the work is ongoing.

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I've never felt quite like I'm finished or achieving anything really that great.

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I am a very ambitious person.

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I push myself very hard.

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I try to do things that scare me.

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I try to do things that seem daring and bold and encourage others to do the same.

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So I think, yeah, I still feel like I have so much more to do with every project that

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I've done and with my collective and with my acting.

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If there's anything that I haven't done, I'm always keen to try it.

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So I guess force is a good word because I really do push and force myself into places

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that may be uncomfortable because I think that's how I get better.

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And I love a challenge.

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I love criticism.

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I love, yeah, I just, I think there's so much more room for us to be brave within the arts.

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And unfortunately, because we have such a difficult industry where everyone is in survival

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mode, we don't always get the most dangerous ideas and the boldest ideas.

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And I like the idea that, you know, theatre is very transitory.

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You can do something that's really bold and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, you

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move on.

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It's just a play.

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It only exists for a certain amount of time.

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And you can learn from it.

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So I'm always trying to do something that I think would possibly be too hard for me

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to do.

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That's like my life goals.

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It's just like, what sounds too hard?

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Let's do that.

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What is going to give me a sheer mental breakdown?

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Hopefully not in two weeks.

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That's extraordinary because you like, for anyone who doesn't know you, you are kind

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of just, you do appear and look at Julia online.

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You look like you're 20, which is an extra and you're 32 and you've frozen encapsulated

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in time.

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And that is like extraordinary because you're doing so much.

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And the fact that, I'm going to say this, holy hell, no one would put on the musical

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that you would.

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Decided this, this is a great, great bit of German expressionism.

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Like let's put on Metropolis.

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Let's make that a musical.

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Why?

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Because it's a challenge and why hasn't it been done?

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Why has no one done it yet?

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Like it's crazy to me.

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I mean, it has been done in the eighties badly, but it's one of those things where I think,

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I don't think anything is untouchable.

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And I think if things remain relevant and exciting, there's a reason for that.

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And how do we become, how do we make that more accessible?

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It's actually really surprising to me how few people knew Metropolis coming into the

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show.

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And that's been something that's been a great learning experience for me because I think

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there's been a lot of assumed knowledge in its creation, in its very rapid creation.

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Cause I'm like, everyone knows Metropolis, right?

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But it's already fading out of, I guess, the zeitgeist and it only exists in its sort of

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modern forms of Blade Runner or things like that.

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So it's a privilege to be able to reignite the energy that it has and the story that

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it has and everything that is so, so, so relevant today.

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And especially to do it with Thea's words, the original writer Thea von Harbu, because

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it's really her story and she wrote the screenplay and we all remember Fritz Lang, but we don't

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remember her.

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Yeah.

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Which is kind of extraordinary because, you know, it was in a time of what it was in 1930.

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1925 was when the novel came out and the film came out in 1927.

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That's nuts.

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Yeah.

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And then it's been re-edited multitudes of times.

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I don't think the original exists in any form except like one reel on one part of the plan.

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It's like very hard to find the original cut.

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And it's varying in length and it's kind of extraordinary that the fact that it is this

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sort of weird story about like human society and robots and like how the, like, I can see

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what you mean by Blade Runner.

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But then the thing is, you remember when in high school, when everyone had to study Blade

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Runner and half the class hates it because they're all like, this is absolute shit.

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Like nothing about this is good.

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And then, you know, like, but the thing about the original idea is it is interesting.

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Like the whole idea of like, how does humanity deal with like something that looks so similar

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to them or something that is so almost replicant?

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Yeah.

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I mean, it was the original sci-fi film and so much of film.

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I think, you know, as soon as you know Metropolis, you see it everywhere.

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Every single film that you see, every single sci-fi film that you see, anything that sort

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of touches on any of the theme, you can see the Metropolis reference within it because

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that's what everything was based on.

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But you know, reading the novel, the way that she describes the voice of the female robot

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of the AI is exactly what Siri sounds like today.

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And that's mental to me, you know what I mean?

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She knew that.

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She predicted that in 1925.

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And that's how we hear AI now every day when we talk to our phone or we ask Siri to play

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music.

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She talks exactly how Fia described.

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And I think that's just magic.

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I think it's amazing when people are using all of the, you know, political and social

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commentary from their histories and their impending futures and can make something that

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is so all-encompassing that it will still be incredibly accurate 100 years later.

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Which is, yeah, nuts.

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It's only a few more years and then it's actually 100 years old.

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Do you think you'll redo it at 100 and just have the...

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We will?

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Do you think, yeah.

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Yeah, look, I mean, the idea is definitely to grow it.

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But the best feedback from this whole process has been that people want more, which is very

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rare with the new work.

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Often it's like, you know, you need to cut that down, that's too long.

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And I'm very wary of anything over 90 minutes.

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I'm like, you've got to have a really good reason to get it off.

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Because I think your attention spans are shorter now.

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And I think, you know, the audience is wanting something more concise.

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And so we've got to show that it's 40 minutes, 20 minute interval, 40 minutes.

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And the feedback has very much been, you need to give it an extra 30, an extra 40 and clarify

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some of those ideas and just extend.

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There's so much room.

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And I always knew that it was going to be an epic.

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But I'm very concise and very direct with the way that I express things to a fault.

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And so knowing that there is room and people want more is just the best thing.

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So I think Zara and I, as soon as we opened, we knew that there were things that we wanted

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to do with it and things that needed to change and things needed to evolve and things that

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needed to be added in.

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So it'll definitely be grown.

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And yeah, maybe that'll hit the hundred year mark and that'll be quite special.

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I mean, it's only a few years away.

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It's not really that far.

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But I mean, that's extraordinary as well, because you run like this small little theatre

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production company, which like you've only made one other show prior to this, is that

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it?

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Oh no, we've been around for seven years.

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Seven years.

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Yeah, we've done, gosh, how many shows have we done now?

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You should know this more than I do.

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I'll get my website up and I'll tell you.

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I think it's about seven shows.

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Oh, so a show per year?

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Yeah, at least.

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We started out of Sydney University.

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Yeah.

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Me and my friend, Georgia.

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Georgia was a dancer and she was in the dance society.

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And I saw her dance and I thought, I am terrified of using my body like that because I've never

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had a dance lesson in my life.

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But it was so beautifully expressive.

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And so the storytelling was so clear that I wanted to learn how to do that.

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Because I think as an actor, you sort of, you have your tendencies and what you rely

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on.

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And I was very voice reliant and accent and whatever, things that don't actually matter.

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And so I wanted to extend myself and I met Georgia and we made a short 30 minute work

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in 2015.

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And then the university sponsored us to take that to a festival in Brisbane and everyone

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was really supportive of it.

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And it sort of challenged what the drama society at least was doing at that point because everyone

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was very focused on the classics and doing the Shakespeare and being actors.

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And I wanted to show that, you know, especially within a drama society where you don't have

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any money that you have to make back and you can explore dangerous things within that safe

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space.

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I wanted to show that we could do other things just like movement or devised work.

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Here we go.

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One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.

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We've done nine projects since we started.

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That's nuts.

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And I mean, 2018 was really when Georgia and I both stepped out of it and started to direct

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other people and create things with larger ensembles, which is when we did Pinocchio,

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which was our first sort of big work that, you know, went really well and people were

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very supportive of.

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Two clarinetists, three vocalists and a clown.

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But yeah, it's mostly been 50 minute works up until Metropolis.

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It's been very sort of short form, intense devising periods.

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Early adaptations, contemporized adaptations.

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And then Metropolis was the first.

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It's the first thing I've written.

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So it was very like, I don't know what I'm doing, but a good challenge again.

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And I thought it would be something that would be more devised.

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But working with Zara Stanton, my composer, she was like, you know, we're going to need

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to go in with a draft.

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And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'll just write something.

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In four months.

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Here's my plot.

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There we go.

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But yeah, using the novel to do that was really helpful.

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And I really enjoy the process of adaptation generally and that updating stories to adapting

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stories for contemporary audience.

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So I knew that that was something I was going to love.

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But yeah, I've realized now why it takes years to write a musical and not four months.

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I was like, oh, this stuff.

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Yeah, we deserve to spend some more time on this.

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But that being said, what we've been able to achieve, I'm very, very proud of.

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Yeah.

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Because it's kind of initial announcement to it being out and then also probably preconceived

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thinking in your head is probably like up to six months.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I always have things in the bank that I sort of go with the right opportunity appears.

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I'll pull that project out of the bank.

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But I'm also a very, very tunnel vision type of person when I have something that I'm doing.

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I literally can't think about anything else.

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So I don't let myself start work on a project until I know what that opportunity is.

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I just sort of have the idea sitting in a Google Drive somewhere.

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That's what it's called.

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And it will sort of be about this.

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And the haze came to us and said, you know, we have our new musicals and we have our classics,

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but we don't have anything like what you do.

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Would you want to do something?

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And I pitched two things and they were like, well, obviously the troplers would be great.

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And I said also, yes, it would be great.

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Not realizing it's incredibly expensive to put on a musical and producing it was a, you

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know, deadly experience.

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But eventually I got another producer, Harry, on board and he sort of has guided us through

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since the launch date.

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But even getting up to that point, it was like, oh, this is beyond anything that I've

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ever done as a producer and as a company.

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Which is an excellent way to grow as well.

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I mean, I'm always trying to grow in every area that I can and learn about every single

245
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field because I think that makes the best collaborative work is if you really understand

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what people do.

247
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And working with Zara like that was amazing.

248
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Learning how a composer works.

249
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And it's her first musical as well, which is astonishing because she's amazing.

250
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Oh, goodness.

251
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So, yeah, we were learning from each other a lot and leaning on each other a lot.

252
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And yeah, it's it's been a big one, but it's probably the first the first project

253
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,120
I haven't wanted to leave behind quickly.

254
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,640
There are so like every other project I've done, I've been thrilled with and I've tied

255
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,680
up in a bow and said, next one.

256
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Whereas this one, I think as soon as it opened, I was like, oh, this is going to be with us

257
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for a while and we're going to need to keep working on this.

258
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And it has the bones to be something quite epic and quite big and something that I want

259
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to see go international.

260
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And I want to see an Australian made project that isn't isn't a small story.

261
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It's a big one.

262
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And that's we're capable of that, too.

263
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Yeah.

264
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I mean, it's really interesting because I think like just just from gathering it as

265
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,560
well that you've always been very headstrong and determined to.

266
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Getting the sense of this is like you're like, I can't deny this any further.

267
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,480
Oh, no, I'm very I'm very upfront about what I am and who I am.

268
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I'm a very direct person.

269
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And I just hope to instill other people with that as well.

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I think I very much lead by example.

271
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And I'm a teacher and I very much try and instill that vibe in my kids because you can't

272
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,880
it's really difficult to be in the arts just generally.

273
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Yeah.

274
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And it's more difficult to be in the arts and be courageous.

275
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And the best work is always made by, you know, people who are being super courageous and

276
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,400
trying things that they've never tried before, because that's where the risk lies.

277
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And I love watching theatre that is taking a risk.

278
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,720
There is you know, there are lots of plays that I feel like I could do and I could do

279
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:07,720
justice to.

280
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And I've directed with schools those plays before.

281
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And but I don't know what I don't want to do things that I know that I can already do.

282
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Like that doesn't help me, I think, as an artist.

283
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And that doesn't help me contribute to my industry and what I want to see in my industry.

284
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:30,240
Which I think is very noble as well, like in a sort of like artistic vision to be like,

285
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,720
oh, I'm not going to just stand by and be like, oh, I just want to see the same thing

286
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,400
done to death.

287
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:42,440
Because I sort of get like the fact is you are a nerd of...

288
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,440
Huge nerd.

289
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:51,360
Of theatre, but also like, just sci fi and stories and just like things like you, you

290
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,960
seem to be, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be a person who is very out of

291
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:57,960
their own time.

292
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,480
Like they're enjoying every element, but they were born in a very different era in their

293
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,800
head with stories were just like everywhere.

294
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:13,160
And we're in such a technological, like multifaceted way.

295
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,000
And you're just really an out of the box.

296
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,520
How do I appropriate this?

297
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:25,200
Or how do I use this to make someone question something or question the idea of society?

298
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,800
Like I already sort of think the fact that you're adapting for trouble makes me think

299
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,360
you'll do like 1984 or something like that as a musical.

300
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,440
Yeah, look, I never thought of myself generally as a political person.

301
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,320
And then I've looked at the works that I've done and the work that I do with the collective

302
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:48,280
and I'm like, oh wow, all of them are quite like very, very socially conscious and always

303
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:55,640
have a really strong message or a reason to be on the stage.

304
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:02,920
And I think that's the work that inspires me most is just, because I do deep in my core

305
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,920
believe that theatre can change the world a little bit.

306
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:12,000
And I know that that's probably naive.

307
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,080
But I do think if you can change one mind or if you can make one person consider someone

308
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,400
else's views, then you are changing the world.

309
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,320
And I love that idea.

310
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:29,200
It's so awesome to me when I go and see shows that, even when I was younger, I will not

311
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,560
necessarily remember the narrative or remember the exact happenings in that show, but I will

312
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,640
remember the feelings that it left me with or the images that were so striking that it

313
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,320
made me feel horrified.

314
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,880
And that is the association I have with that story or whatever it is.

315
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,520
And those are the things that stay, the feelings.

316
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,520
And that's what theatre can do.

317
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,800
It can make you feel things.

318
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:56,040
It's not just understanding or accepting or, you know, reading an essay.

319
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,360
It's something where you have a gut feeling and that stays with you for much, much, much

320
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,680
longer than the understanding of a concept.

321
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,440
Yeah, I would highly agree with that.

322
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:13,960
I think also the theatre that I've seen growing up, especially like we're of the same vintage,

323
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,320
so we've grown up with very much like the good Sydney theatre around.

324
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:25,680
But I just particularly remember falling in love with theatre and film, particularly around

325
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,360
the same time.

326
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:32,040
And I think it's just that love for independent theatre, especially when they're out of like,

327
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,640
because the thing I love about like already what I've seen, and I wish I could just, you

328
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,320
know, drop everything to come see Metropolis.

329
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,480
I'm really hoping I can because I've meant to.

330
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,480
It sounds terrible.

331
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,480
You'll get there.

332
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,480
I'll get there.

333
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,240
I really want to say it.

334
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:53,240
But I mean, like the thing I love is like also just the fact that it is, you know, when

335
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,640
theatre is immersive, when and film is immersive, like it has, because like film is just theatre.

336
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:06,040
Like it was theatre filmed, and that was how it started, and then it became its own thing.

337
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,480
And you really kind of get a sense when you watch good theatre, that they're investing

338
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,840
everything from like the story to suddenly they've got a bit more budget than they're

339
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,280
going with the props and the set dressing.

340
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:23,720
And I really think that when you are starting out and you're a theatre maker, it's really

341
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,560
good to just remember that everything is a key detail.

342
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:27,560
Totally.

343
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,600
And it's about world building because...

344
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,600
Totally.

345
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,600
It's a huge trap.

346
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,160
I think it's a huge trap that a lot of young theatre makers fall into of this concept that

347
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,800
theatre is actors, or theatre is, you know, actors on a stage in a script.

348
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,360
It's about the writer and the actors only.

349
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:44,880
And I've never believed that.

350
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:53,400
And I think it's a misunderstanding that you have to have money to pay attention to the

351
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:59,040
design or to pay attention to the props that you use or how that's expressed or the movement.

352
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,520
You know, all of those elements matter, the sound, the sound design, music, like every

353
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,680
single theatrical element matters.

354
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,480
And when those are in harmony, that's when you have a really beautiful story that will

355
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:10,960
stay with people.

356
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,960
Sure, you can have shows that are just actors on a stage, but it can be the perfect black

357
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,440
box.

358
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:25,560
You know, it can be, you know, the perfectly cut drama blacks t-shirt, you know, and that

359
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,560
matters.

360
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,440
I think people don't necessarily recognise that.

361
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,600
So they sort of think of some of those elements as an afterthought.

362
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,120
It's like, oh, we'll be lucky if we have the right sound design or whatever.

363
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:40,200
And it's like, you know, especially when you're starting out, like I used to do all my own

364
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,480
sound design because I don't know, like I didn't know anyone who was vaguely interested

365
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,480
in it.

366
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,640
I wanted to be a designer before I wanted to be an actor and a director.

367
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,920
And I still my own sound design, I used to build my own sets.

368
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,860
But that sort of cohesion across all of the elements of drama, I think, was the thing

369
00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:04,480
that was most important to me and the thing that I think helped the audience, you know,

370
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,640
feel and understand your story much clearer.

371
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,960
And it also made me understand those roles a lot better so that when I did work with

372
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,440
sound designers or designers, I had some level of understanding as to what they do and how

373
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,440
they feed into the world.

374
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,440
And then that becomes even more exciting when you're working with people who totally understand

375
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,920
their role and are exceptional at it and can feed in their own kind of dramaturgy as to

376
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,760
why things should look the way they look.

377
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:37,280
And, you know, one of my favourite little details is Ella Butler, our costume designer.

378
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:44,320
When Frieda changes costumes from his upper world character to Georgie's workers uniform,

379
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,640
he tucks in his shirt and he rolls up his sleeves and he has unbuttoned so that you

380
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,840
can see his undershirt underneath, whereas all the other workers have their sleeves rolled

381
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,680
down and his their shirts out.

382
00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:01,600
And this kind of concept that dramaturgically, his character wouldn't know how to wear the

383
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,640
uniform he's wearing it the way that he would wear it in the upper world, which is a shirt

384
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,640
tucked into pants.

385
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,760
And it's little details like that that I just love that Ella can provide me with that storytelling

386
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,480
that's purely visual that maybe an audience doesn't notice, but they can probably feel

387
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,440
subconsciously that this person doesn't quite fit in, even though they are dressed exactly

388
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,440
the same.

389
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,240
There's a reason why their shirt is unbuttoned because they're hot and the other workers

390
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,600
don't see that as an option.

391
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,160
It's like, I love stuff like that.

392
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:37,480
I love those are just little details that only people within those that kind of appreciation

393
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,280
across the entire production elements can bring you.

394
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,560
It's not just about actors saying words.

395
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,600
Yeah, I think also the, you know, and I think you really hit the nail on the head.

396
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,360
It's just, you're one of many cogs in a machine.

397
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:53,360
Absolutely.

398
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:59,320
And I think that's what people also forget about theatre is it's not, you know, like,

399
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,920
because you know, you're talking about like all the costume designers, like, it's funny

400
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,000
how a director, like when you're directing something, you're like, oh, it's a collaborative

401
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
thing.

402
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,700
And I think when young directors come in, they think they have all the ideas and like,

403
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:17,560
this is distinctly, I've got the vision, I can do this.

404
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,040
And this is like, there are directors that work that way and work very successfully that

405
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,400
way.

406
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:30,680
I think, you know, it just depends what works for you, what resources you have.

407
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,120
You know, some of the professional directors I've worked with, with major theatre companies

408
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,440
have had everything decided before you get in the room, except the acting, right?

409
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,120
So they know how the transitions are going to work.

410
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:47,200
They know where you need to stand when, but that scene, you can just try stuff again and

411
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,200
again and again, and they will choose the best options of those of you trying.

412
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,680
And that's great, you know, because they've had all of the time with their team to decide

413
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,320
exactly how they want the show to look and how it to feel and what it will sound like.

414
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,200
And the actors, you just come in and you do your job and you do it well and that's undefined,

415
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,200
you know?

416
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,800
And that's an incredible process as well.

417
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,520
And it's a very safe process for actors.

418
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,320
I work very collaboratively purely because I really enjoy new work.

419
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,360
And anytime that you're approaching a new work, may it be a play or a devised work or

420
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:25,760
music or whatever, you have to be collaborative because that's the only way to get a great

421
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,240
product because everyone needs an opinion on a new work.

422
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:38,320
It can't just be one person's idea or you end up with a very singular sort of, yeah,

423
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,800
maybe not so successful new work.

424
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,800
But I love new work for that reason.

425
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,840
But you know, some of the old classics, you can definitely direct it that way where the

426
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,360
actors don't need so much feedback.

427
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:53,400
They just need to be doing their role and enjoying that part of the process only because

428
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,400
that's what they're hired to do.

429
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,940
And I mean, I think me being able to be an actor and a director is really beneficial

430
00:26:01,940 --> 00:26:07,240
because I understand my role in the machine very well and I really enjoy that.

431
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,240
And I enjoy sort of negotiating how a director is going to move through their production

432
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,460
and going, okay, as an actor, what is my role here?

433
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:16,360
How do I make everyone else look good?

434
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:21,040
How do I know what, yeah, how do I be the perfect cog in this machine?

435
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,720
How do I make it work for the production, not just for me?

436
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:25,720
Yeah.

437
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:31,920
I mean, I want to kind of ask in particular, like when you were younger, like with all

438
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,680
this sort of like journey now, like what was it like growing up?

439
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,800
Like, you know, which journey came first?

440
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,840
Because I'm assuming acting was your first love or was it kind of like?

441
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,400
Yeah, I guess.

442
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:52,520
My parents are very, they weren't wealthy growing up and they really valued music.

443
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,560
And so when they moved to Australia, they very much pushed that all of us will learn

444
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,520
the piano and all of us will learn another independent instrument.

445
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,640
So I played piano in clarinet growing up and music was very highly regarded in the house

446
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800
and, you know, reading the classics, doing the music.

447
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:18,040
It was very like old fashioned kind of upbringing of values of what makes a good person, a rounded

448
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,680
person.

449
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:26,480
But definitely at school, I was always like, I don't know, I was always that kid that was

450
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,360
like leading games or making up games and telling everyone what to do.

451
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:38,520
And then I got the lead in the junior school play, which was, I think it was called Harry

452
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,520
the Hottest Boy Alive or something.

453
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,800
I loved it because I got to spike my hair up and spray it red and play a boy.

454
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,720
I really enjoyed that.

455
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,040
And it definitely grew from there.

456
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,320
I definitely, I did drama all through high school.

457
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,560
I was the drama prefect.

458
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,440
I introduced theatre sports into my school.

459
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,760
As soon as I graduated, my drama teacher hired me as a year seven and eight drama teacher.

460
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,240
So I learnt a lot very quickly just from teaching.

461
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,520
I think teaching really taught me how to negotiate with people.

462
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,400
And especially when you're working with children, you're working with, you know, the most volatile

463
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,080
group of humans.

464
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,600
And if you can work with them, then you can work with almost anybody there.

465
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,480
I love kids and I love teenagers.

466
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,480
So I did a lot of learning very quickly.

467
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:32,360
I tried to be a teacher because I didn't think the arts were, you know, a profession that

468
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:33,360
you could follow.

469
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,440
I wasn't really raised.

470
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,600
I was raised to respect them, but not necessarily that that was going to give me a secure lifestyle.

471
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,600
So I was like, oh, that's cool.

472
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,600
I'll do teaching.

473
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,840
But I didn't really enjoy education at uni.

474
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:53,800
It seemed very preachy and less about the people than it was about the subject of education

475
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:54,800
generally.

476
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,120
And I was very much about the kids and very much about the people.

477
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,300
And drama was always a secondary subject.

478
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:00,600
It wasn't like teachers for drama.

479
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,300
It was teachers who did English and then drama on the side.

480
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:09,640
And then I did a performance study subject and I met a group of people who were like,

481
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,600
you should join SUDS, the drama society.

482
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,920
And then I hardly did any other academic subjects.

483
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,320
And I just did, I did performance studies only, performance studies in English.

484
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,480
And then I did the drama society.

485
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,120
I was there so many days a week.

486
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,120
It took me ages to finish my degree because I just didn't do it.

487
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,480
I just made plays and I was just in the drama society and loved it.

488
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,560
Was on the executive, was a social secretary.

489
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,800
So I got to make everyone feel welcome and comfortable and generate a culture and throw

490
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:44,640
parties and things like that, which is very much who I am.

491
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:51,640
And then after that, tried to be a designer, tried to audition for NIDA Design and didn't

492
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,960
get in.

493
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,360
Which is very good to be honest.

494
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,320
I'm very glad because I love design and I'm now engaged to a designer.

495
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,560
He's an amazing designer, but I have a strong appreciation for design, but I'm not a great

496
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,760
designer.

497
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,400
I think I just did it because no one else in the drama society was interested in design.

498
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,120
And I was like, oh, well, maybe that's it.

499
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,600
And I think it's a brave thing to call yourself an actor.

500
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,960
I always knew that I was good at it and I enjoyed it, but very seriously considering

501
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,120
yourself to be an actor seemed like a big move.

502
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,740
And I was like, well, it sounds a bit lame if I have to be like, I'm an actor.

503
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:34,720
But I went to New York in 2017 and did a month.

504
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:35,720
So I did a lot of comedy.

505
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,720
I did a lot of, before I went to New York, I did a lot of comedy.

506
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,880
I was sort of like that thing where people are like, oh, you're a funny woman.

507
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,680
How great, let's put you in all these comedies.

508
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,120
And I was happy with that because I knew what I was good at and I was happy with it.

509
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,600
And then I went to New York and I did method acting for a month.

510
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,320
And that really showed me that I could do other things.

511
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,840
And I was like, oh, I'm not just a funny person.

512
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,600
I can achieve a lot of things and I can play a lot of different roles, some very serious

513
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,440
roles and go to some very dark places.

514
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,720
And I enjoy that.

515
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,320
And I came back and very much was like, okay, let's start taking ourselves seriously.

516
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,800
This is something that you can't not do.

517
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,800
And I got cast in a NIDA grad show as a Gave in the back eye.

518
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,480
And I remember being like, oh, this is like a role with authority.

519
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,920
That's new for me.

520
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,000
And yeah, I think since then, I mean, a few people came and saw that show and I got my

521
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,680
first 25 a gig off that.

522
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,560
And that's where I got my STC gig off.

523
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,400
And that's just have been gig to gig from there.

524
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,680
All with little legs growing on the side.

525
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,680
Which is great.

526
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,680
Which is great.

527
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,240
And it all sort of, I learned so much about working with different directors and working

528
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,160
with different companies that I could bring into my own practice.

529
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:59,000
But again, just a distinct lack of devising groups within Sydney and a distinct lack of

530
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,160
this opportunity to make work that wasn't just writers writing.

531
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:12,400
I really wanted a way for actors to feel the agency that devising gives you that sort of

532
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,040
emotional investment and that knowledge that you made that.

533
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,720
You don't have to be a writer in order to create work.

534
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,080
And you don't have to speak, in fact, in order to make a story.

535
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,120
You know, Pinocchio didn't have any words in it.

536
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,520
And that physical theatre and storytelling is just as beautiful and just as effective

537
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,360
and live music can be.

538
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,560
And also working with people who were non-actors was very important to me.

539
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:46,440
I think that comes from a love of working with students and kids where you're showing,

540
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,360
you're not really teaching them, but you're guiding them through discovering themselves

541
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,360
as an artist.

542
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,800
And I think that's really fun to work with musicians who have never been on stage before

543
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,560
or never performed as an actor before, because it all feeds into each other.

544
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,040
I think if you're a great artist, no matter what field you're in, you're going to find

545
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,560
an in to perform on stage and vice versa.

546
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,120
So yeah, that's definitely how everything's evolved.

547
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:18,080
But I am a very community based person and very, that's the thing I love most about theatre,

548
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:24,120
I think, is that it's a shared experience and that you are part of the machine.

549
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,320
Everyone, even the director, you know, my role is not, I don't like the hierarchical

550
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:36,840
sort of energies that are often, I guess, spouted as being the best, you know, the director

551
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,840
is God.

552
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,240
I'm sort of like, well, if the lighting designer knows who's better than me for something,

553
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,240
I'm going to let them try it.

554
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,240
You know what I mean?

555
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,520
Like I'm not ever going to shut down ideas.

556
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,520
I want to see them all.

557
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,440
I want to invite everyone to have a process and then we can all decide if that works or

558
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,440
if it doesn't.

559
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:58,640
Yeah, which I mean, like is kind of, it's not exactly rare, but I feel like it, you

560
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,880
know, when it, it is nice to have someone who just goes, yeah, like throw an idea my

561
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:03,880
way.

562
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:04,880
We'll see if it works.

563
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,880
If it works, it works.

564
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:06,880
If it doesn't, it doesn't.

565
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,240
And we'll just try the other way.

566
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:12,840
Like I feel like that's, but I always love that, you know, because you've been teaching

567
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,280
so young and I think this is sort of like something that I notice a lot when it comes

568
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:24,160
to creatives is like, there was just an aura of like one, you know, the standard thing

569
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:31,480
we call professionalism, but you've learned that so early on is how to hold yourself because

570
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:37,480
of, you know, basically teaching straight out of high school, teaching kids and teaching

571
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,000
such volatile children where they are the worst.

572
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:49,120
And yeah, I know it's 13, 14 year olds, 15, they're amazing, but they're also a nightmare.

573
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,120
But you know, like they are just this point where they're just, you know, suddenly getting

574
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,560
into that weird stage in their life and they don't know who they are entirely.

575
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,400
And you're dealing with all of that trying to control the classroom.

576
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,000
But also while doing all these other things, it's kind of gives you this, I feel like you're

577
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:13,240
someone who's grown up very, very fast in a lot of ways.

578
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,240
And has that been a blessing and a curse in some ways?

579
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:21,400
It's interesting that you say that because I think it took me a while, like the first

580
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,360
time I called myself an actor, I was 26.

581
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,360
Really?

582
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,200
It took me that long to really take myself seriously as an artist.

583
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,640
I definitely, I grew confident very quickly.

584
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:40,280
I was always, I have always thrived off being given responsibility, especially for others.

585
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,400
And I think I do that for the people around me as well.

586
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,800
And that's why I like being collaborative because I sort of like, if we are all responsible

587
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,320
for each other, we all get fed that same soul food.

588
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,000
And it also takes a weight off your shoulders.

589
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,960
You know, if everyone's in a position where they feel like they're heard and are responsible

590
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:06,560
for each other's, you know, input and liveliness and all of that stuff, that it's a wonderful

591
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:12,680
experience because you don't carry that one heavy thing.

592
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,000
And I was very lucky that, yeah, I was given things like drama prefect.

593
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,840
And I took that very, very seriously.

594
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,680
And I really have always thrived off leadership positions.

595
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,880
And that made me bolder as I got older.

596
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,840
And I think then at uni, I became very angry as everyone at uni is, you know, you're discovering

597
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,120
your own politics and your own beliefs all of a sudden.

598
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,040
And there's all these different types of people around.

599
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,000
It's not just the people from your suburb.

600
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,920
You're learning so much so quickly.

601
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,600
And there is social injustices in the world and you suddenly believe in so much.

602
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,920
And that's a wonderful experience.

603
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,720
But of course it makes you angry at the world, you know, frustrated.

604
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,560
And then I was just bursting to do things that were dangerous, I think, because of that

605
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,880
anger that I was like, you know, we have all of this stuff that's we're being fed and

606
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,280
yet we're still doing Shakespeare's and that's great.

607
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,040
But why not do something different with that Shakespeare?

608
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,120
Why not do something daring and bold?

609
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:17,400
You have the opportunity and you have the space and you there's, you know, who's coming

610
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,400
to review it?

611
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,560
Ony Swar, which is this paper.

612
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:22,560
And that's it.

613
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,560
Like no one else cares.

614
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,720
It'll be over and you'll do something else.

615
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,800
So why not do something that may not work?

616
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,320
You know, and I got frustrated in that.

617
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,040
And that's out of that's really where the collective was born was out of that frustration

618
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:42,560
that we weren't just we weren't being crazy enough or bold enough with our ideas when

619
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,600
we had the opportunity to do it.

620
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,880
Yeah.

621
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,040
And then I left uni and did a couple of independent things and and learned more about myself as

622
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,040
an artist.

623
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,840
I do feel like that's been a slower process.

624
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,160
I think potentially myself as a director.

625
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,920
I mean, I have I am a director, but I don't think people know me first and foremost as

626
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:06,920
a director.

627
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,920
I think they probably know me more as an actor.

628
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:14,360
And yet I think it took me longer to embrace myself as an actor than it did as a director.

629
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,120
I always knew that I love directing and that I was good at it and I enjoyed it and I was

630
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,680
good at bringing people together and being collaborative and, you know, in having positive

631
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,640
critical discussion was always really important to me.

632
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,720
Yeah, I always knew that that was who I am.

633
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,160
But an actor that's taken a little bit more convincing.

634
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:43,560
And I think I just I honestly I I just act because I'm like I'm good at it.

635
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,920
And I'm like, that makes me my money, which I'm happy with.

636
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,920
Yeah.

637
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Do you know what I mean?

638
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,600
It's so funny because everyone's always like, I feel like actors can be so hard on themselves,

639
00:38:54,600 --> 00:39:01,200
you know, being really like, I'm not good enough for this or there's so much struggle

640
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,560
in an actor's life.

641
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,160
And I've just sort of let that I think having the collective on the side and being a director

642
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,680
on the side, sort of being my underlying focus and letting acting just happen has been really

643
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:20,000
beneficial for that craft because I've fallen into roles like teenagers.

644
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,000
Yeah.

645
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,040
A lot of teenagers.

646
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,360
But that is just because it was comfortable for me and I knew what that was.

647
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,480
And so I never really doubted myself.

648
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,560
I didn't really want to call myself an actor, but I didn't doubt that I could do it.

649
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,200
And I've always been I'm always very comfortable on stage, especially as a different person.

650
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,040
I think being on stage as myself is a little bit harder, but something that I will get

651
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,080
better at.

652
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,280
But certainly as an actor, I've always felt very comfortable there.

653
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,340
Whereas as a director, that's where the risk is for me.

654
00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:55,920
And that's where the adrenaline is, like the excitement of pushing boundaries and trying

655
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,320
things that are much, I don't know, more difficult.

656
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,480
I actually really enjoy the times where I, you know, work on a project as a director

657
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,600
for a significant amount of time.

658
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,140
And it's almost like doing an acting job is a reprieve because I'm like, great, I get

659
00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:15,480
to go and just do my job, the singular job.

660
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:23,520
I always describe it as, you know, a director is looking at the whole symphony and an actor

661
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,800
gets to play their solo line.

662
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:26,800
And it's joy.

663
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:32,440
You know, it's just one line of music on the clarinet in my head.

664
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,960
And it's easy.

665
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:34,960
It's like a breeze.

666
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,100
It feels lovely to just focus on that one singular thing.

667
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:41,960
But then you get hungry for the rest of the music and I have to go back to directing and

668
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,800
creating something that's really dexterous and difficult.

669
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:49,600
And I don't know if it sounds any good, but we're going to find out.

670
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,640
That probably sounds very obnoxious to say.

671
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,720
I think that's just how I see it.

672
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:57,360
It's very much the job.

673
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,320
I guess acting is the job and theatre is the passion.

674
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:08,960
Which is really interesting because, you know, they sort of like two worlds merging, you

675
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,920
know, obviously on different sides when you're the director and the actor, but I mean, I

676
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,720
can sort of see in your eyes and no one can see Julia, only I can see Julia.

677
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:25,160
But I can see in your eyes how much like stories and directing kind of give you this sort of

678
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,760
level of drive.

679
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,680
And especially like, you know, the fact that you do present someone who's like looks like

680
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,160
they're 20, like teens is a luxury.

681
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:44,440
It's like, oh, okay, I've frozen in time since I was like, which is kind of nuts, you know,

682
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,560
great genetics, right?

683
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,840
But I mean, like, does that, did that also being someone who looked so young, did that

684
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,680
take you a while to get taken seriously externally?

685
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,680
Absolutely.

686
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:01,840
I think very much as an actor, it made life really easy because I could be, I could have

687
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:08,880
a 28 year old's mind and do justice to a 17 year old who's going through a lot, for example.

688
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,840
Whereas if you're casting younger, if you're actually casting a teenager, that can be very

689
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,080
dangerous for them psychologically.

690
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,000
Whereas I have enough time and space to recognize what that looks like and to appropriately

691
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,560
inhabit that body without it being dangerous for me psychologically.

692
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,280
But as a director, and as someone who is in the industry playing teenagers, a lot of people

693
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,560
think that you're the bright young thing and that you're just fresh and new and bubbly

694
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,560
and kind and that person that plays all of those roles.

695
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:44,480
But and so, yeah, I think I've really had to, I guess I like the fight.

696
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,320
I've always liked surprising people.

697
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,360
And I think it's part of that.

698
00:42:51,360 --> 00:43:00,000
I, it is something that I think has like, yeah, a blonde haired, blue eyed white chick

699
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,640
who looks about 20.

700
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,800
It's a shock when people see something like Metropolis and they're like, this is what

701
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:06,800
you're interested in.

702
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,920
I'm like, yeah, I'm a big old nerd.

703
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,840
And to the extent that I'm very sure of myself in the room and I am very direct and I enjoy

704
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:17,840
that process.

705
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,840
I'm not a shy or insecure person.

706
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,720
I've worked very hard to be secure in myself.

707
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:26,000
And I want to keep stretching myself.

708
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,320
I want to keep doing things that scare me for that very reason.

709
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,880
And you know, the industry makes you resilient and I have enjoyed that.

710
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:41,800
I think a lot of the difficulty in our industry is moving past that point where you go, this

711
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,600
is really scary and I could really, I have choices here.

712
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:51,760
I can choose to let this affect me or I can choose to override it by making something

713
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,720
so scary that it's within my control.

714
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:03,760
And I think that's the process for me and why, why acting feels like a relief is because

715
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:11,680
the other stuff I'm doing is so much scarier, you know, and I want to keep that, that motive

716
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,400
of yeah, of developing work.

717
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,760
I mean, that being said, it's incredibly non-profitable and very difficult to make an actual life

718
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:28,640
out of because I often think if I did just direct a goddamn play, maybe I'd get work

719
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,960
as a director because I keep insisting on doing things that haven't been done before

720
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:41,240
that it's very hard to showcase my skills, I guess, as just a director who directs play,

721
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:45,440
which I'm also pretty good at if I don't say so myself.

722
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,160
But it is, it is, makes it difficult.

723
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,160
Yeah.

724
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,520
Because I mean, like you are a jack of all trades kind of realistically, you know, you

725
00:44:52,520 --> 00:45:00,040
do a lot and like whether that's in the creative arts bubble, it's still kind of just goes,

726
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,240
oh, okay, it's Julia the actor, Julia the director, Julia the writer, you know, like,

727
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:12,840
and I think that is while, you know, we're living in the 21st century and that's great.

728
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,320
It does make our industry very limiting because it's the thing, it's the thing that I think,

729
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,000
you know, because I still, I still get that occasionally, which is, you know, like, I

730
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,400
often, you know, like, you record a podcast at home, you sort of go, oh, is it serious?

731
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,400
Is it not serious?

732
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:34,120
You know, like, I take it 100% seriously, but it's outward, like, definitely had guests

733
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,080
who, you know, haven't taken as seriously as you take it.

734
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,040
So it's, it's, it's always like how you really value yourself, how you sort of like take

735
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,960
your own sort of like security and you do, as you say, you need to always be like very

736
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,640
affirmed in your, who you are as a sense of self.

737
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:50,640
Yeah.

738
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,640
Easier said than done.

739
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:52,640
Easier said than done.

740
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,640
And it's something that you have to fight for, I think.

741
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,960
And I think every show that I do, I'm fighting for that, that assuredness.

742
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,840
And I'm trying to do things that I know may not be successful and be confident in that.

743
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,400
And that's the blessing of theater.

744
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,600
It is a transitory thing.

745
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,000
You know, you can do it again.

746
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,040
You can do another play.

747
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,400
You can, you know, it's not a fixed thing.

748
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,640
And I, I mean, it's difficult because our industry is so small and there are, you know,

749
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,720
a few gatekeepers that it's really hard to push past.

750
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:25,160
There's not a lot of theaters here.

751
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,320
There's not a lot of independent spaces here.

752
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,600
So you do really have to fight for time and space.

753
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,520
And there's not a lot of room for things to go south, which is unfortunate because I think

754
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,280
stuff has to be bad before it's good.

755
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,600
You know, like I think there needs to be more space for people to take really big risks

756
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,000
and for it to go horribly.

757
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,560
Like that's the only way that you learn.

758
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,560
Yeah.

759
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:54,040
You know, I've seen things, I've seen pieces of theater that have been incredibly unsuccessful,

760
00:46:54,040 --> 00:47:00,320
but that I've been like, I so appreciate that existing because it was such a big idea.

761
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,200
There was no way they were going to reach it, but fucking good on you for giving it

762
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,200
a go.

763
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,080
Like that makes it worthy in my eyes.

764
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:12,560
And that's what advances, you know, arts practice in a culture is if people are taking those

765
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,280
risks and you know, somewhere like Germany, where they pay people to be artists and you

766
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,160
have a living wage means that they can afford to really push the boundaries constantly.

767
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,360
Yeah.

768
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:29,200
Which is why they're at a forefront of creation and why we sit, you know, 30 years behind

769
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,200
London.

770
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:31,200
Yeah.

771
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,080
We're doing things that echo stuff that's already been done.

772
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:39,880
I think it's also like the, you know, putting, putting both of us on a pedestal.

773
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,200
Please, I haven't done it enough.

774
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:50,400
But I mean, like there is like a handful of us in Sydney, which it does feel like more

775
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,080
of a handful than it really does.

776
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,960
Like we are a mass conglomerate of artists and creatives.

777
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:02,740
And I think, as you say, not enough of them are really, they're all playing it very safe.

778
00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:07,200
And I have often found you sort of find the people when you do find the people who want

779
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,360
to challenge and think that's a really cool idea.

780
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,040
Like, you know, you're talking classic literature, you know, adapt this weird abstract German

781
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,640
expressionism art.

782
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,640
Sure.

783
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,800
Um, you know, like literally I, the other day I was, you know, just looking through

784
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:27,120
books that I haven't read and I'm like, you know, I have a bookshelf for, um, you know,

785
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,120
like old, um, old books like George Orwell and, you know, like, and I grew up with plays

786
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,440
like Arthur Miller and, you know, stuff like that.

787
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,400
Grew up with 1940s and 1930s films.

788
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:42,000
And I often think it's like, you know, one of my, one of my favorite, um, films is Gaslight

789
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:47,280
and the term was based off the play and the play, no one knew the word term Gaslight before

790
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,920
because it's not a popular word.

791
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,640
It wasn't a English vocab word.

792
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,920
And it's the first term of just like sheer mental abuse and like that sort of level of

793
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,080
abuse.

794
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,540
And it gave that term and I, we watched it recently and I was like, God, this film's

795
00:49:01,540 --> 00:49:02,540
ahead of its time.

796
00:49:02,540 --> 00:49:05,400
Like it's really, really fucking smart.

797
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:10,560
And I was just sitting there going with my in-laws and just going, how is this film in

798
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:17,080
the forties, like when, you know, female like, you know, ideas weren't really the head of

799
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,080
it.

800
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,080
It's, it's about this woman getting abused and then taking back the power at the end

801
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,840
and just going, no, fuck you.

802
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,840
I'm out of here.

803
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,360
And you're the one who's like abused me the entire time.

804
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,840
It is the forefront because I feel like, you know, now that the industry has sort of like

805
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,400
changed, it has evolved.

806
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,760
There still is those step backs where it's like, you know, it's only been the last 20

807
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:46,560
years where women have been given, you know, the ability to do more theater forefront that

808
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,720
you have, you know, because I feel like when we were growing up in the nineties, we weren't

809
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:51,720
exposed to that.

810
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,880
We weren't exposed to, and especially like, as you say, you know, your blonde hair, blue

811
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:03,920
eyed that is in Australia considered the very stereotypical dumb blonde.

812
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,560
Why would you bother?

813
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,080
And it's, it's extraordinary because I think that one of the first things that made me

814
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,200
want to reach out to you was the fact that you knew things that I was like, these are

815
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,880
the things I grew up with and I love.

816
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,240
And it's weird because you only see like one or two people, whoever really know what Metropolis

817
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:27,840
is, you know, or when it started or, you know, like, you know, the idea behind it or, you

818
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:28,840
know, all these things.

819
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:36,900
And it feels like we are in this little capsule and niche bubble of people who aren't just

820
00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:42,800
watching Shakespeare, as you say, or watching, you know, like, um, the same old Alfred Hitchcock

821
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,080
films, which are great.

822
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,600
But everyone knows who these people are.

823
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:52,680
Like there was, you know, no one, a handful would know like, you know, foreign films or,

824
00:50:52,680 --> 00:51:00,280
you know, cause we are in such a Western world and it really shows, particularly when I went,

825
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,920
I went to, before the pandemic, I went to London and I thought, you know, like the best

826
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,520
thing about London is going to see the theatre.

827
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,840
And I went to the Globe and I thought they were, they were, you know, like they had this

828
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,400
all female, um, play of Richard the third.

829
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,440
I was like, cool, I'm going to go and see that.

830
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,320
And I watched it and I was like, you know what this makes it better than most Shakespeare

831
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,360
is the fact that everyone was a woman, like all the characters were.

832
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,560
And I just felt like I was like, this is the thing that makes it more powerful because

833
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,000
they're just trying something new with them and just going, if this fails.

834
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,560
Who the fuck cares?

835
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,640
It's not going to set us back.

836
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,120
I think that's the thing as well.

837
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,320
And I mean, you say that there's a few of us in the bubble, but I think there's probably

838
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,880
way, way, way more who are just not brave enough to be bold about it.

839
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:54,400
And I think that's why, you know, I am so obnoxious about my confidence in myself because

840
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,440
I'm trying to encourage other women to do the same.

841
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:02,640
And I think, you know, when, when I started, you know, being interested in theatre, it

842
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:08,160
was all about those big white dudes who fucking, you know, loved themselves and the director

843
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:09,160
was king.

844
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:14,000
And it was always like, they were so assured, but it was only those straight white men who'd

845
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:19,960
been doing it for the last 20 years, who demanded things and like had ways of working in it.

846
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,440
Oh, they're horrible to work with, but they're a genius and blah, blah, blah.

847
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,760
And I was always like, well, that's fucking shit.

848
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,480
Like I can, I wanted to be as assured as they were, but also treat people nicely.

849
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,640
I was like, I think there's room for that.

850
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:40,720
And I think I am like such an advocate for women being arrogant because we're just not

851
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:41,880
allowed to do that yet.

852
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,400
And I think that's crap.

853
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:49,140
Like dudes are so allowed to be sure of themselves and be arrogant, but, but women are still

854
00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:50,600
not allowed to do that.

855
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,480
And that's something that I've really fought for where I'm like, you know, if you feel

856
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,160
like you're good at something, you're allowed to say that you're allowed to be sure of yourself

857
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,880
and, and say, no, I am actually really fucking smart.

858
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,920
And I actually really do know what I'm talking about.

859
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:08,520
And I actually know more than you on this one or, you know, yeah, I think, and I mean,

860
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,680
that's been some of the best things about working with Zara.

861
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,720
Zara is so self-critical.

862
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:19,560
And I have no doubt that as a woman of color, it's been very hard for her to, to really

863
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,240
showcase what she's made of.

864
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,000
But when I watch her run a room, she's incredible.

865
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,960
You know, she has absolute command and control of everyone in that space and holds authority

866
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,920
so beautifully and so gracefully.

867
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,240
And not in a way that she has to be cruel to anyone, but in a way that she's strong

868
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:40,560
and she's sure and you don't fuck around.

869
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,200
And that's so great.

870
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:47,960
And then to be able to feed her, you know, with this musical, she's like, you know, I

871
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,240
don't think I would have ever written a full scale musical had you not said, well, let's

872
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:52,240
do it.

873
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,240
You know, and I'm very pushy like that.

874
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:57,800
And I'm like, well, if you're good, I'm going to push you because you deserve to be heard.

875
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,520
Like your shit is better than all the white guys writing musicals.

876
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,840
Like it's better and it you're it's better because you're so self critical and because

877
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,000
you push yourself so hard.

878
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:12,200
But if you, if you don't have other people around you and often other people from minority

879
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,920
groups saying, no, fuck them.

880
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,160
You can do this.

881
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:20,200
Um, I believe in yourself and be arrogant about it and be aggressive about it.

882
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,260
I think I use the word aggressive a lot.

883
00:54:22,260 --> 00:54:26,920
And I think people think of it as such a negative term, but I'm very, very happily calling myself

884
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,680
aggressive because I'm an aggressive person.

885
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,720
And I like when I want things and when I like things, I'm aggressive about it.

886
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:34,520
And I think that's a really cool trait that women can have.

887
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,520
Um, aggressive and arrogant.

888
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:37,520
I'm into it.

889
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,200
That's all you'll take away from this podcast.

890
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,920
Everyone's like, God, she's such a psycho.

891
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,440
You know, the, all these things, the thing I was going to say is the thing that I love

892
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:53,400
most about your personality is the fact that you're so like self-assured and everything.

893
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,920
Cause I like, I grew up with that.

894
00:54:54,920 --> 00:55:00,700
I grew up with a mother who went out and she worked and my dad looked after me and my brother.

895
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:02,200
So that was like our upbringing.

896
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,440
We had the stay at home dad.

897
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,640
We had the mom who went and you know, worked her way up the ladder.

898
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,080
So it's all, and all my friends have been girls, like all of them.

899
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,720
So I'm very used to this, like kick it, you know, kick the guys down, fuck them.

900
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:21,480
And I think it's also like, uh, my fiance like is the exact same.

901
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:26,640
And I think it's also, you know, I particularly believe that when you're good at something,

902
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,640
I'm the same.

903
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,480
I'm like, no, just strive to achieve it.

904
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,480
Like don't, and it doesn't have to be the best.

905
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:38,560
No, like you can still do something and it doesn't have to be the most perfect result.

906
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:39,800
And that's still worthy.

907
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,080
I know, but it's, it's also like the thing.

908
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:49,080
I think people put a price and a value on things and very much like I'm talking, if

909
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:54,240
you, if we lived in a non capitalist world, there was no money and all you were was just

910
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:55,240
watching things.

911
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:56,240
Cool.

912
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,240
Amazing.

913
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,600
Like everyone have a different level of appreciation.

914
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,000
The moment money gets involved, everyone has, oh, the price of this.

915
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,640
And it's like independent theater, independent films.

916
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:07,640
There's not a lot of money.

917
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:12,160
There's you scrape the bottom of the barrel to make a lot of productions work.

918
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:17,520
And sometimes, you know, like I've, I think one of the biggest compliments that I've ever

919
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:26,040
had from various different people is how hard I work and, and how aggressively hard I work,

920
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,720
which is kind of insane.

921
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,360
I'm probably as clinically insane.

922
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,000
I think both of us need to get sectioned.

923
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,400
But I mean, like, you know, it is an admirable thing.

924
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:43,960
And I think the thing is like, you need to work one it's, it's about proving to yourself

925
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,360
that you can do something.

926
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,400
But it's, I've never felt an interest to prove to others.

927
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,080
And I think that's the difference is I've gotten to this point in my career where I'm

928
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:59,000
like, you know what, if someone doesn't like it, oh, well, good fucking you.

929
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,040
Like I don't really care.

930
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:07,440
As long as I have, I'm proud of the output and I'm proud of the result.

931
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:13,240
Because when you do so much and, and because my, you know, like I work a day job, so my

932
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:19,400
day job is working for a media company, which deals with things that are live broadcast.

933
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:24,640
So we have to not be like worried about if because we have to move on.

934
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:25,640
Yes.

935
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,400
We're not, you know, going, oh, we've got to think too depthfully about how I've affected.

936
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,760
It's like, no, I've got to move on to the next step.

937
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:36,520
So realistically, I'm always trying to tell young, especially young people that when I

938
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,280
meet them, they're 1920 and I've worked with a lot of young people.

939
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,560
And I think it's like, what happens when you get to our age and you're just like, alright,

940
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,000
let me take you up some wisdom.

941
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,000
So much deep wisdom.

942
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,560
But I mean, like you do have this a little bit of just going, oh, okay.

943
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,240
What advice can I actually give you?

944
00:57:55,240 --> 00:58:01,400
And I think the one thing I give a lot of, a lot of young women is just.

945
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,240
Essentially on a set where there's a lot of, there were a lot of male opinions and stuff

946
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,240
like that.

947
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,240
I'm like, come to me.

948
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,240
Yeah.

949
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:10,240
Talk to me.

950
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:14,440
I'll say something, I'll say something, but I'll also make sure that your voice is heard

951
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,120
in this situation, which cause that's the level where I'm like, I'm not happy if someone,

952
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:24,440
you know, cause I, there was two sides of this coin, which I, I love and hate about

953
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:25,920
like some men in the room.

954
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:31,080
Um, and I'll express this opinion widely, but, um, I hate it when you know that you're

955
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,880
working with men who just, you know, like always have this sort of like element of,

956
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,280
oh, a girl spoke up.

957
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,480
So I'm proud of them.

958
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:42,160
And I'm just like, they're a fucking human being, like, like the rest of us treat everyone

959
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:47,320
like an equal or here to do a job or here to make like the product.

960
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,400
Like we are making something together as a unit.

961
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:56,840
And I really drives me mental when we are in this, like, as you say, straight white,

962
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:01,840
you know, cis men society where it's just like, oh, okay, cool.

963
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:02,840
What the fuck?

964
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,600
And you, and you see it all the time.

965
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,880
And there's no like adjustment to that thing.

966
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,040
And they're very obvious, like these people like stick out like a sore thumb with the

967
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,200
moment they're in a room.

968
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:20,360
So it's sort of like very, and you can kind of see the, some girls like, especially when

969
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,000
they're young, they feel a bit insecure.

970
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,080
They sort of like, they don't know what to say or what's the right thing.

971
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,360
So it's just have an opinion.

972
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:35,320
And if someone tries to shut you down, you know, we'll speak up and say, no, listen to

973
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:36,320
that.

974
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:37,320
Cause that's important.

975
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:38,320
Yeah.

976
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:39,320
I do think it, I think it's come a long way though.

977
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:44,960
I remember, I think I am so much the way that I am now because I was very, very agreeable

978
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:50,420
like as a person or through high school and through most of uni, you know, I got relationships

979
00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:55,240
that weren't good because I was so agreeable and I just wanted to make people happy.

980
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,960
And I was a really polite kid.

981
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,000
I loved all of my teachers.

982
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,560
I did everything on time.

983
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:11,080
And I think growing past that through uni and past those bad relationships and watching

984
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,160
bad theater and learning so much so quickly.

985
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:16,680
That's why I got really angry as well.

986
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:21,480
You know, I sort of realized that I've just been this person and this young woman that

987
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,840
the world wanted me to be.

988
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:31,120
And yeah, cause unlike you, my parents were very, you know, you've got to be humble and

989
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,160
they'll hate listening to this.

990
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:40,120
They're very, they're very like, you know, you have to be polite, humble and it's don't

991
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,800
make too much of a noise.

992
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:43,800
Yeah.

993
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,720
And I think that comes from a very working class background where it's like someone bullies

994
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,400
you work harder, you know, don't make a noise about it.

995
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:51,400
Don't speak up about it.

996
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:52,400
Just work harder.

997
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:53,400
Just be better as a person.

998
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,320
And that definitely feeds in, it's very stoic, very much feeds into the way that I am.

999
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:03,120
But as I've grown older, I've grown more confident in my voice and I know when I can speak up

1000
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,440
now and when I should, but you know, working with young people now, they're very good at

1001
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,120
it and they, the language that they have around speaking up is, is incredible.

1002
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:16,080
It's not any of the vocabulary that I had in high school.

1003
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,760
I think, you know, as much as we all rag on TikTok, I think TikTok is actually a great

1004
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:21,760
learning resource.

1005
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:26,080
You know, they, the ideas that are shared, the social ideas that are shared there and

1006
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,040
the languages that are created to establish what, you know, something like gaslighting

1007
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:36,560
is or when relationships are inappropriate and, and how to negotiate that as a young

1008
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:42,800
person they're much, much better at like so much more adept at negotiating those social

1009
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:44,840
circumstances than I ever was.

1010
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,240
I let things like horrific things slide.

1011
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,560
You know, I think back to those times and I was like, fuck, that was a really dangerous

1012
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,880
situation that I was in, but I had no idea.

1013
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,640
I didn't have the words for it.

1014
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:54,800
So it just happened.

1015
01:01:54,800 --> 01:02:02,040
You just let things happen because you don't have any of the language and you don't, none

1016
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,040
of it is defined.

1017
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:08,420
Whereas I think society as a whole has done a lot of work on defining those things and

1018
01:02:08,420 --> 01:02:15,320
giving them words and language and ways to express exactly what is going on.

1019
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:20,920
And that makes it easier for everyone to have control if you have the language.

1020
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,880
And I love, I mean, as much as I teach, I also learn so much from young people.

1021
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,240
Like they just, they're learning so much more than I am so rapidly.

1022
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,000
And it's my favorite thing when they just, yeah, they have their own random tick tock

1023
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,000
words or whatever.

1024
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,000
I'm like, what does that mean?

1025
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,840
Oh my God, it's an entirely new world.

1026
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,560
And I love, I just love learning what they care about the way that the world is shifting

1027
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:49,000
or yeah, what's, what's in focus for teenagers because they're so on the pulse of everything

1028
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:54,640
at that age and even really small things feel really important when you're a teenager.

1029
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:59,400
I think that's why I probably enjoy playing them as well because you're, they're trying

1030
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:05,640
so hard to not show anything, but there's everything happening underneath.

1031
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,120
Yeah.

1032
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,200
Just like walking into someone can just be the most soul crushing thing of your entire

1033
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:12,200
day.

1034
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,320
And now you're like, well, I'm walking into someone, walking into someone, I forgot about

1035
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:16,320
two seconds later.

1036
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,240
But I remember as a kid just being like, oh, I'm so ashamed.

1037
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,040
I like accidentally tripped over my teacher.

1038
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:23,040
Oh God.

1039
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:29,440
And you think about it for so long because everything was so important.

1040
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:34,600
And yeah, so I learn heaps from my students as well and they, they really challenge everything

1041
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,080
and I love that.

1042
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,080
I love playing with young people and it makes my practice much better.

1043
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:43,080
Yeah.

1044
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:50,920
And I love that as well because I think particularly like with young kids, especially, you know,

1045
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,120
when they discovered themselves, cause like it makes me think back to when I discovered

1046
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,360
myself, did a lot of that during my twenties.

1047
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:05,160
But it's like that I feel like was more normal for our generation because school wasn't the

1048
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:06,920
place you discovered yourself.

1049
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,520
But I'm like, the place you disappeared.

1050
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:10,520
Yeah.

1051
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:15,640
And you know, I think back to it and just my cousin's kids and the fact that, you know,

1052
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:16,640
they're so confident.

1053
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,560
Um, one of them's queer and I didn't even think about coming out as queer until I was

1054
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:21,560
like 26.

1055
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,960
And I was like, that's not a thing.

1056
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,080
You know, like things like that.

1057
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:34,560
And I just think that, you know, kids are so on top of like everything in terms of like,

1058
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:39,040
you know, making people feel accepted pronouns that they keep, you know, like the amount

1059
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,840
of times that I hear kids correcting adults.

1060
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:42,840
Yeah.

1061
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:43,840
Oh, absolutely.

1062
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,600
I mean, they just have, their brains are so malleable that they have this ability to adapt

1063
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:49,600
so, so rapidly.

1064
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,800
Whereas as an adult, you do have to practice, you know, because your brains are already

1065
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:53,800
fully formed.

1066
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,320
Like you've got to go online and do the practicing because it's not just going to blend in the

1067
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,600
way that it did when your mind was elastic as a child.

1068
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,320
And it's, I, I'm so impressed by how quickly they adapt.

1069
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,200
That's why I'm always like, God, you're so much cleverer than I am.

1070
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:08,200
So good.

1071
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,640
I'm like, you're so clever that you can feed off of your cleverness.

1072
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:11,640
But yeah.

1073
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:17,040
You just have like, like a sort of draw for children's brains and you're like, yes.

1074
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,120
But yeah, that's why it's so inspiring.

1075
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:26,280
And I, I think remaining creative and remaining playful and, and daring in, in all of the

1076
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:30,960
projects that I try and do is an attempt to recreate that brain, to keep it malleable,

1077
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,920
to keep it open, to keep it something that is going to absorb things quickly and learn

1078
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,200
fast, because I, I think if you're a theater maker, you're addicted to learning because

1079
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,080
every single project, you have to learn a whole different world, a whole different life,

1080
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:48,560
a new set of ways to express yourself, a whole new group of people.

1081
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:53,600
Like every single project requires you to, to learn everything from scratch again.

1082
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,960
And if you're not doing that, or if you haven't learned from the thing before and you're applying

1083
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:05,320
that, then you're not making, you know, theater that is progressive or is anything than what

1084
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:06,680
you've already done.

1085
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:07,680
Yeah.

1086
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:12,720
So yeah, I think that's definitely my attempt to stay childlike.

1087
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,120
I mean, 32, you're doing great.

1088
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,120
You're doing great.

1089
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:21,720
I mean, like, you know, you're speaking to someone who's 31, so we're, we're on the same

1090
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:22,720
page.

1091
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:31,840
But I also think that, you know, we are like going forward and, you know, like, you know,

1092
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:38,400
you and I have got stable relationships, which is a huge benefit to a lot of our self-confidence

1093
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:43,960
and stuff like that, where you just, you find someone as creative or in a different capacity,

1094
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,040
like, you know, my partner is a musician and singer songwriter.

1095
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:53,960
So like, as well, you know, that kind of like dives into a kind of like having someone next

1096
01:06:53,960 --> 01:07:01,640
to you who was just as driven and as nuts, like, you know, as you kind of feeds a lot

1097
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,800
of your, oh, okay, I can keep doing this.

1098
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,280
Because I mean, like, I don't think Nick's quite as nuts.

1099
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,480
So he's always like, you're nuts.

1100
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:14,360
He's the one that's trying to keep my feet on the ground, which I'm very grateful for.

1101
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,520
Oh, someone's got to do it.

1102
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,960
I think if he wasn't there, I'd be off with the fairies.

1103
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,880
But it's good to have someone who's a little bit more grounded.

1104
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,440
I mean, like, because I can spiral.

1105
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,720
Because yeah, like, how do you, how do you personally keep on top of like your own mental

1106
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,600
health these days and like everything like that?

1107
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,520
How do you sort of like stay untuned to it?

1108
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,640
I mean, I think it's, I think it's interesting that you, you brought up the secure sort of

1109
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:44,000
relationship thing, because I, you know, I'm a, I'm a big relationship person and I've,

1110
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:49,200
I haven't been out of a relationship since I was about 15.

1111
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,760
And Nick went to Dubai in the second lockdown.

1112
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:54,360
So he was away for seven months.

1113
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,320
And we weren't able to see each other because it was COVID.

1114
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:04,920
And so I have seven months on my own, living in our apartment with our dog alone, three

1115
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,840
of months, which I was completely alone because of lockdown.

1116
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:13,600
And it was a really redefining experience because I've always kind of defined myself

1117
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:20,920
as with this person alongside, whoever that may be and whoever I'm learning from in that

1118
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:21,920
time.

1119
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:23,800
I've always learned from my relationships and they've always been very, very different

1120
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:24,800
people.

1121
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,600
And I think it's because it's always just like what I needed to learn in that time.

1122
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,880
And Nick is not like that.

1123
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:37,920
We're very, very similar in the ways that we are, but we just make each other laugh

1124
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,600
and have had fun for the last seven years.

1125
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:41,600
It's great.

1126
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,920
We just have fun.

1127
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:50,560
But yeah, I think that time during COVID was a really, really necessary time for me as

1128
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:58,480
a young adult moving through life going, oh no, I can be with myself and I do love myself

1129
01:08:58,480 --> 01:08:59,840
apart from that person.

1130
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,160
I'm not wholly defined by that person.

1131
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:08,160
And I need to understand exactly who I am and know that that person is a bonus to who

1132
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,120
I am.

1133
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:14,960
It's a blessing and it's great, but it's not everything.

1134
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,920
And I think prior to that, I'd really sort of thought, oh God, if Nick wasn't around,

1135
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:20,920
would I survive?

1136
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:29,120
Because we are obsessed with each other still and we're best, best, best friends and we're

1137
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,400
so obsessed with each other and it's great.

1138
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:41,360
But it's nice to know now that three months especially of work doing a lot of introspective

1139
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:47,400
investigation and meditation and exercise and just learning what I am apart from my

1140
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,960
job and apart from my partner was huge.

1141
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:56,240
And I think that's probably why I've come out of it the most resilient I've ever been.

1142
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,720
And I feel very lucky for that and I wouldn't change a thing.

1143
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,400
But it was pretty hard there for a while.

1144
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:03,400
Yeah.

1145
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:09,840
Because I'm so addicted to overworking and being busy all the time.

1146
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,760
If I don't have a busy period, I will make it busy.

1147
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:17,960
I will find some other project that I'm starting or things to do.

1148
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,640
So not having anything to do in that time and having to take life slow and having to

1149
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,960
just be with myself was very difficult.

1150
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:31,480
But I'm really, really grateful for that time because I think I understand myself much,

1151
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:32,480
much better.

1152
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:38,960
And now I think I have so many more tools in my mental health toolkit because of that

1153
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,760
time because I was forced to do it.

1154
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:50,800
Whereas previously I probably, I just kind of go into overdrive and beep and you just

1155
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:51,800
keep going.

1156
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:56,520
Like you're not taking care of yourself, but it has to be done, so you just keep going.

1157
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,440
Whereas letting yourself acknowledge feelings and sit in them and understand them and know

1158
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:08,360
that it's a passing feeling and that it will end.

1159
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:15,040
Metropolis has actually been, it was very scary, but it hasn't been nearly the challenge

1160
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,320
mentally, like mental health wise that I thought it would be.

1161
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:23,520
And I think that's because I finally got into a place in my life where I'm like, oh, this

1162
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:27,000
isn't, it's not the be all and end all.

1163
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,720
It's a project that I'm very, very passionate about, but I have another project to go on

1164
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:31,720
to.

1165
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,880
It's something that is our first go.

1166
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,200
We'll go back to it.

1167
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,000
It doesn't have to be a huge sellout season.

1168
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:43,080
Like I think so much of what I've done in the past has been putting so much of my soul

1169
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:51,400
into a project and it having to be the best possible thing in the universe and working

1170
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,080
so hard at it that I'm nearly dead.

1171
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,160
Whereas this one, I think I've been much better at being collaborative about, about being

1172
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:05,360
understanding of my own needs, mental health wise, about sharing the responsibility and

1173
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:16,160
being there for others gives me a great sense of, of yeah, understanding with myself.

1174
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,680
And also having this project be 50% another person, you know, having Zara as the other

1175
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:26,280
50% of this project has been awesome because so much of what I do, I'm always just like,

1176
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:30,320
you know, it's my project, I'm the director and I'm trying really hard to, like to make

1177
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:35,440
everyone collaborate well and blah, blah, blah, but it's so much on one, on me that

1178
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:37,640
sharing this with Zara has been really cool.

1179
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:41,440
And also learning from her and being like, I don't understand anything about that.

1180
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:45,200
I don't know, I don't know anything about mics, you know, I've never worked in a live

1181
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:46,200
musical sense.

1182
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,920
I don't know about feedback and where those speakers need to be on the stage.

1183
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:54,800
I don't know about the balance of the speakers in the auditorium.

1184
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:59,200
I don't know how to rehearse in covers, you know, we've never had to do that before.

1185
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,000
Over calls.

1186
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,000
It's yeah.

1187
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,560
And that's great to actually have time and be like, Oh, I don't know anything about this.

1188
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:06,560
Fab.

1189
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,400
Like we're going to learn and that's great.

1190
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:10,600
It's not in my control.

1191
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,560
I have to just sit back and understand and watch how it and learn how it happens and trust

1192
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,200
someone else.

1193
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:17,360
And Zara is extraordinary.

1194
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,800
So yeah, I've definitely learned from the best.

1195
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,960
But yeah, mental health wise, I think, I mean, it can always be better.

1196
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,680
It can always go like, I think exercise was something that I found in that lockdown.

1197
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:36,680
And I started running Noah and I, my dog Noah and I ran together a lot and I loved it.

1198
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,560
I absolutely loved it.

1199
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,040
It took me a while to get into it.

1200
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,800
But of course we all had time.

1201
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:43,800
And I don't do it anymore.

1202
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:51,200
And when I got sick, I was in London last year, I got COVID in London and I was like

1203
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:52,200
11 days out.

1204
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:57,120
Like it's got me really hard and I was like hallucinating and stuff and I would dream

1205
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:58,120
of running.

1206
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:03,760
I think it's because that's what my subconscious remembered being the most healthy and feeling

1207
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,760
the best.

1208
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,840
So I always say to myself that I'm going to get back to running because I think it will

1209
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:10,840
make me happy.

1210
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:15,720
But then you get tired and then you're at the theater every night and you're going to

1211
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,760
bed at midnight and you're like, am I going to get up and go for a run?

1212
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:19,760
No.

1213
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:20,760
What do you mean?

1214
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,440
I'm going to get up at 7am for a run.

1215
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:24,440
Before work?

1216
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:25,440
No.

1217
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:32,400
But I think I'm very lucky that I'm such a people person and that people really feed

1218
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,000
me soul food wise.

1219
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,840
And if I ever need anything, I'm always like, I just need it.

1220
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,080
Like teaching a class is like therapy for me.

1221
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,360
It's so, I love it.

1222
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:45,900
It just takes everything away from me and onto those young people.

1223
01:14:45,900 --> 01:14:51,600
And being in a room with people, I love being responsible for how they see their day and

1224
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,680
making it a good one and making it an empowered one.

1225
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:58,640
And I live feeling better because of that.

1226
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,880
So I am lucky in that way.

1227
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:01,880
That's great.

1228
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:02,880
Don't stop.

1229
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:07,880
You're like, keep running, keep running.

1230
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:13,720
Because where do you sort of see, because obviously with Metropolis, you want it to

1231
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,240
kind of grow.

1232
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,320
And this feels like a little bit like your first big baby.

1233
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:20,320
Yeah.

1234
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:21,320
Which is mildly.

1235
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,240
It is a big baby.

1236
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,720
It's a big baby.

1237
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:32,680
But taking that into like the real world, which I mean, like there's like this world

1238
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:39,200
and then it's like growing it where it becomes potentially like a big auditorium and loads

1239
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,200
of people see it as like that the aim.

1240
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:42,200
Yeah.

1241
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:49,360
And I've never really had, yeah, as I said, I just haven't really held on to projects

1242
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:50,360
before.

1243
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,880
I've sort of been like, that was great for what it was and it deserves to live in that

1244
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,880
memory.

1245
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,280
That's what theatre is all about.

1246
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,480
It's like those people who saw it are going to be the people who see it.

1247
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:01,020
And that's it.

1248
01:16:01,020 --> 01:16:03,440
Because also resurrecting shows is really expensive.

1249
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:08,760
And I'm so addicted to making new work constantly that I'm always like, oh, why would you look

1250
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,760
back?

1251
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:14,680
I guess, I mean, this one being my first writing work, I'm not a writer.

1252
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,960
I am not a writer.

1253
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:24,720
And I know the pitfalls that I fell into as a writer and I want to go back and adjust

1254
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,680
those and work with other writers to adjust those.

1255
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,640
And, you know, I'm proud of my direction, but I'd love to make it bigger.

1256
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,360
I'd love a cast of 30, you know, not of 12.

1257
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:39,240
And how do we give it what it deserves?

1258
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:44,960
I think it's such an epic story that it deserves to be grown.

1259
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:50,480
I think it's very much about, yeah, doing the work justice.

1260
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:56,040
And I know that that's going to require some what I call killing your babies, things that

1261
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,360
I really like that maybe don't work for the audience or stuff like that.

1262
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,480
And it just, it deserves some time and space.

1263
01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:07,440
And hopefully, I think we're going to try and, you know, bring on people who we really

1264
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:14,400
trust and love and respect artistically and listen as much as we can and work it that

1265
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:15,400
way.

1266
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:20,240
Because, yeah, ideally in the next two years, we'll see it on the biggest stage with more

1267
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:24,280
cast and a bigger script and greater score and more musicians.

1268
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:32,520
And I think it's so exciting to have an Australian musical that can tell a story that is universal

1269
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:33,520
and massive.

1270
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:40,320
And, you know, to have a script that like prima facie, you know, that can go overseas

1271
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:48,320
and be told by someone else and it be an Australian work, but it's not about uniquely Australian

1272
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:51,920
experience that is potentially sometimes inaccessible.

1273
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:57,200
It's about humanity as a whole.

1274
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,240
Yeah.

1275
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:05,520
I mean, the thing I also think would be really cool, and I don't know if you've thought about

1276
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:10,320
this, would you release the songs like on download?

1277
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:11,320
Is that the plan?

1278
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:12,640
A lot of people have asked us that.

1279
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,000
A lot of people have asked us that, which is really nice.

1280
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,000
It's very flattering.

1281
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,120
A lot of people have been like, oh my god, you have to make a cast album.

1282
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,080
I need to listen to the music again.

1283
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:23,720
And they're right, because Zara's music is astonishingly good.

1284
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:28,400
It's just one of those things where there'll be a few songs that I'd be happy to put down,

1285
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:34,000
but there are lots that Zara and I are going to want to change or grow.

1286
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,760
And again, it's another expense.

1287
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:42,000
So putting down a cast album is, it can be expensive and you have to mix it right and

1288
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,480
you have to get the right musicians in.

1289
01:18:43,480 --> 01:18:52,680
And I think we want to make sure that we are happy with the text first and the arrangements

1290
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:59,080
and all of that stuff before we put a lot of investment into that.

1291
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:02,640
But look, we might get three cheeky songs out.

1292
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,920
Come on, just twist the arm.

1293
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:12,280
Like, you know, because that could probably like, you know, just benefit down the track,

1294
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:16,360
like having even one song and be like, here is an example.

1295
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:22,800
Because you know, when you go to a few years and you've done maybe a couple of runs and

1296
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:27,560
then you'd be like, this is an example of the photos from the two runs we've done.

1297
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,640
Here's an example of song.

1298
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,720
And then people go, cool, I want to have that.

1299
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:37,080
And yeah, as you say, theatre is such a, it's not profitable.

1300
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,080
It's not the most profitable thing in the world.

1301
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:46,800
A lot of the time, like has this gone past, like have you broke even or you know?

1302
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,360
I think we're about to.

1303
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:49,360
Oh God.

1304
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:54,240
I mean, it's been the most expensive venture I've ever taken in my life.

1305
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:57,320
And nothing prepared me for that.

1306
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,960
I also haven't been making any money during this time of rehearsals and things like that.

1307
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,240
So do you feel very poor?

1308
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,920
Very, very broke.

1309
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:10,680
But it feels worth it, which is nice, but it is difficult, especially when you're partners

1310
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,560
in the project and then also not making any money.

1311
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:16,080
So usually Nick and I tag team a bit because you know, when you're an artist, you're doing

1312
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:17,080
contracted work.

1313
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:18,960
So it's only for a certain amount of time.

1314
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,240
So if I'm on a gig and he's not, it's not a problem.

1315
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:22,240
He's on a gig.

1316
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:24,000
I'm not, not a problem.

1317
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,720
But when you're both on the same unpaid gig, that becomes a little difficult and we've,

1318
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,640
we have no savings left, which is fine.

1319
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:34,640
We don't need to get married anytime soon.

1320
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:39,320
It's a wedding, right?

1321
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:41,760
But it feels, it feels worth it.

1322
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:46,440
And now that we have the strong bones for this project, I think it can, we can take

1323
01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:51,680
a little bit more time to evolve it and to spend, to spend more time with it.

1324
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:56,600
I think we will probably do a cast recording that's not so overly produced, just something

1325
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:57,600
that's more archival.

1326
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:01,640
And you know, later down the track comes a big thing.

1327
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:06,480
People love to listen to what it sounded like first and Zara's demos and things like that.

1328
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:09,600
You know, there's, I've got all the tracks of when Zara was singing it and sending it

1329
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:11,600
to me, which is really fun.

1330
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:12,600
Yeah.

1331
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:14,960
And we've got a beautiful cast.

1332
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,600
So capturing their voices is so important.

1333
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:25,160
But yeah, well, we've got archivals and stuff that we're doing in order to, to work with

1334
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:26,160
later down the track.

1335
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:27,160
And preserve the memories.

1336
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:28,160
Yeah.

1337
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:29,160
And preserve those memories.

1338
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,880
I'm very into documenting.

1339
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:35,480
I love documenting the process.

1340
01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:37,080
Not just the product.

1341
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:40,400
I can tell because your Instagram is spammed at the moment.

1342
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:43,440
Yes, I am a big Instagrammer.

1343
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:44,440
I love images.

1344
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:45,440
I love, yeah.

1345
01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:46,440
And I love process.

1346
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:50,200
I think it's really interesting to know how things are developed and why they're developed

1347
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,520
and how people work together.

1348
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:58,520
And I also think that a lot of shows always put the famous faces first and the cast first,

1349
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:01,640
which is lovely, but they're seen every night and there's a whole bunch of people that you

1350
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,480
don't see every night.

1351
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:07,680
So I really like to celebrate them as much as I can and the work that they did behind

1352
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:13,480
the scenes and make sure that they feel like they are equal to those who are on stage every

1353
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:17,360
night and that everyone is being celebrated through every show.

1354
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:23,440
And a lot of that is just, you know, promoting them on social media and showing the process

1355
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:25,000
and how much work went in.

1356
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:26,000
Oh yeah.

1357
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:27,000
That wasn't just on the stage.

1358
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:28,000
Oh my God.

1359
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:29,000
You're going to nail it though.

1360
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,000
You're going to be doing it every...

1361
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:35,000
This is the thing though, I reckon like, you know, in a year's time you'll be like,

1362
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,000
oh, I've got another project under my belt.

1363
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:40,000
Yeah.

1364
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,960
Well, I mean, we've got another one coming up.

1365
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:47,640
The next Little Eggs project is The Lost Boys in November at the Seymour Centre.

1366
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:48,640
Yes.

1367
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:54,720
Which I will be in, which is the first project I've been in with the collective for the last

1368
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:58,160
six years, which it'll be good.

1369
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:03,720
And I'm working with Eliza Scott, who is an amazing divisor and has their own practice.

1370
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:10,240
And Jane Fegan, who worked with version 1.0, who I was obsessed with at uni.

1371
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:14,520
They don't exist anymore, but they were one of Australia's leading devising companies

1372
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,920
for 12 years and traveled the world before they stopped working.

1373
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:22,520
So I'm really excited to work with people who have different practices to my own and

1374
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,720
to create a work that, you know, is a Little Eggs show, but isn't just...

1375
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,000
A Little Eggs.

1376
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,000
Yeah.

1377
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:31,000
My style is...

1378
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,600
It really challenges that style.

1379
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,840
And I think being in it is going to be good for that so that I can't necessarily control

1380
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:39,840
what's happening from the outside.

1381
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:45,080
If I'm in it, then I have to use my own practice and use everyone else's as well.

1382
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,520
But I'm very excited about that one.

1383
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:52,500
I have a feeling it's going to be very strange and dark and very, very different to Metropolis

1384
01:23:52,500 --> 01:23:53,500
which is great.

1385
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:54,500
It won't be a musical.

1386
01:23:54,500 --> 01:23:56,920
There'll probably be sound and music in it.

1387
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:58,600
But in a dark and twisted way?

1388
01:23:58,600 --> 01:23:59,600
Yeah.

1389
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:04,840
I mean, Eliza does a lot of like live looping, microphone work.

1390
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:06,280
They also work with force majeure a lot.

1391
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:09,820
So a lot of movement style things.

1392
01:24:09,820 --> 01:24:12,320
Very expressive, very abstract.

1393
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:13,320
Yes.

1394
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:20,920
And I think a lot of the things that I want to explore with The Lost Boys is around childhood

1395
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:26,120
world building and violence and the joy of violence that you had as a kid.

1396
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,160
Like, I loved being violent.

1397
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,960
I was such a violent child.

1398
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:33,960
This explains where the anger came from.

1399
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:36,120
I'm so dreads barred.

1400
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,320
You're like, how'd you know?

1401
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,560
But yeah, my sisters and I used to like give each other dead legs.

1402
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:43,560
That was the funnest thing.

1403
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,760
You just sit back in the back of the car and just like wallop each other.

1404
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:48,400
And that was a joyous experience.

1405
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:49,400
Oh yeah.

1406
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:50,400
It was fun.

1407
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,440
And you stop doing that as a grown up, right?

1408
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:57,380
Because it's not acceptable to hit each other.

1409
01:24:57,380 --> 01:24:58,380
It's a shame.

1410
01:24:58,380 --> 01:25:07,920
But there was such joy in like in challenging the physical boundaries.

1411
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:13,720
It becomes so inward as you grow older and so much about mental challenges and psychological

1412
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:14,720
challenges.

1413
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:17,160
And I guess that's what exercise does for people.

1414
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:22,480
But I think there's a shared experience to have that's between people enjoying that tactile

1415
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:25,320
sort of...

1416
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:30,440
And also how kids create rules that are just out of thin air.

1417
01:25:30,440 --> 01:25:33,840
It just has to be that way because it's just been decided.

1418
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:37,000
And then a whole world evolves around that.

1419
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,720
I remember I used to play this game in junior school.

1420
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,040
It was called like dragons or something.

1421
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:48,280
And you know those little fish soy sauces that have a little red thing?

1422
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,920
If you like suck the air out of it, you could stick on the end of your tongue.

1423
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,160
And you had to have that on your tongue if you were the dragon.

1424
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:57,480
And I think about it now and I'm like, that's so weird.

1425
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:01,320
One of us just did that once and decided that that's how you have to play the game.

1426
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:05,960
And then you were a dragon and then you could act crazy and then you could be violent and

1427
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:09,600
be a dragon that ate people and push people over and whatever because you had the red

1428
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,680
thing in your tongue.

1429
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:16,440
It's as simple as that in that world where things are decided on and you're so sure of

1430
01:26:16,440 --> 01:26:18,240
it as a kid.

1431
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:19,800
And everyone's in such agreement.

1432
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:24,880
It's just like, that's just the way things are.

1433
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,040
Children are also so bizarre like that.

1434
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:37,560
And I think also there is this childlike hilarity with having no inhibitions and no sense of

1435
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,120
self societal worry.

1436
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,760
Because the only people you worry about is getting in trouble by your parents.

1437
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:45,440
That's really the only thing you give a shit about.

1438
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:54,400
But I love that because I just remember one of the biggest things I remember was my imagination.

1439
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,840
There was a great show called Sliders.

1440
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:01,480
Yes, I watched Sliders.

1441
01:27:01,480 --> 01:27:02,760
My sisters loved Sliders.

1442
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:03,760
Oh, it's great.

1443
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:08,400
And we used to, so in school, in primary school, we would grab a piece of bark and pretend

1444
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:13,240
it was the remote and we would go to different points or different worlds.

1445
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:16,280
And I just thought, God, this is so much fun.

1446
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:21,280
And I remember the first year we were in year, there was occasionally there'd be year five

1447
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:27,560
and six stage plays and you'd be able to write things.

1448
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:31,580
And I was reading a series of unfortunate events at the time and I wrote a Christmas

1449
01:27:31,580 --> 01:27:34,720
adaptation in year six.

1450
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:43,400
So there are little things that I think kids do and we're all sort of like, I had this

1451
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:48,480
sort of thought a couple of days ago where I think the most interesting people have sort

1452
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:50,960
of gone through some sort of level of trauma.

1453
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:51,960
Totally.

1454
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,520
And, you know, all fucked up.

1455
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:59,400
We've all gone through some sort of level of, okay, well, this has solidified us and

1456
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,560
made us who we are and really grounded us.

1457
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:07,960
And I think you and I are very similar in that we're very positively, outwardly happy

1458
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:16,960
people but very angry on the inside of social injustice because of just kind of like either

1459
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:22,840
the things around us that have impacted us or, you know, like for you, it's like, you

1460
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:30,220
know, sometimes growing up in certain regimented way or, you know, like however life is decided

1461
01:28:30,220 --> 01:28:35,120
for you and especially because, you know, that is what kids perceive.

1462
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:38,600
They want to, you get to this teenage hood and you want to rebel.

1463
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:44,280
And I think those are the more interesting things because I love watching, you know,

1464
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:47,320
that's why we relate to coming of age stories.

1465
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:52,280
Because then we remember that whole, you know, and I can't wait till I'm like 70 something

1466
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:58,280
and I just go, I remember being a teenager and then like, you just remember the cusp

1467
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:02,440
of it because you're so old and you don't quite remember because it was 50 years ago.

1468
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:06,320
Because like everyone thinks, you know, all your parents will remember being a teenager.

1469
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:11,080
They sort of do, but they've had a lot of life since then.

1470
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:15,280
And they've had kids, they've had you, like they've had so much.

1471
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:19,080
And I think that's sort of like, I know when I'm going to be a parent, like that's something

1472
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:23,720
that I'm going to experience where I'm like watching the kids grow up and, you know, like

1473
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:25,920
having that experience where it's like, this is going to be fun.

1474
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:30,840
But I mean, like that's also the balance, like having your life and, you know, and being

1475
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:34,880
a creative artist, but also like the juggle of having a family.

1476
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:38,960
Like have you ever thought about having a family or is that a no?

1477
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,160
Oh God, I have.

1478
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:47,040
I keep reminding myself that I have to get my eggs checked this year because I am 32,

1479
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:50,520
no matter how much the mirror tells me otherwise.

1480
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:58,760
Yeah, it, look, it's something that we definitely want.

1481
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:08,640
I think so long as I'm being so aggressively obnoxious with my career, I can't afford it.

1482
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:17,520
I mean, yeah, generally we're getting more and more stable career wise and that's good.

1483
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:22,960
We've got a three year old dog and he is everything.

1484
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:28,560
And until that stops feeling like enough, I think we're okay.

1485
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,240
You know what I mean?

1486
01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:31,240
It's tough.

1487
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:36,120
I mean, it's tough because I do, you know, someone like Christie Whelan Brown is very

1488
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:40,600
open about being like, you know, if you're over 30, you should get your eggs checked.

1489
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,000
And it was hard for me.

1490
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:49,320
Because a lot of performers have kids later just because your career is, if you're not

1491
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:55,600
there, you're not constantly pushing it can disappear quite quickly, especially in this

1492
01:30:55,600 --> 01:31:00,040
industry.

1493
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:04,720
So yeah, I think this year I'll get my eggs checked and probably freeze them and then

1494
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:05,720
worry about it later.

1495
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:12,720
But I do love kids and I love the idea of having a family, but I'm still, I still feel

1496
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:18,560
like there's so much for me to do before I'm ready for that.

1497
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:23,080
I have so much more in my career that I want to push for and that I want to try.

1498
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:27,400
And even, you know, even over bumping, the dog was with my mom, you know, he was with

1499
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:34,120
grandma for those two weeks because you're working 9am till 11.30pm every day for those

1500
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:42,560
two weeks and you can't look after a dog, let alone a human.

1501
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:48,720
Plus, you know, if Nick could carry the baby, it would be great because he'd be so good

1502
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:53,800
at it and he'd wear luxurious caftans and like have baths and maybe we'll get up from

1503
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:55,540
him in the bus.

1504
01:31:55,540 --> 01:31:57,200
And I'm really going to struggle with that.

1505
01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,640
Like I am not going to be a good pregnant person.

1506
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:03,400
I don't like the idea of physically not being able to do things.

1507
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,400
I don't like rest.

1508
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:10,680
Like I, yeah, I think it's going to be one of those things where I'm not going to enjoy

1509
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:16,680
it as much as everyone says that, you know, it's a blessing and you enjoy the pregnancy

1510
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:17,680
glow and whatever.

1511
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:19,600
I'm like, that sounds frustrating as hell.

1512
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:21,680
Whoever says that is wrong.

1513
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:22,680
Oh God.

1514
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:24,000
I, yeah.

1515
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:26,440
Whereas Nick would make an excellent pregnant person.

1516
01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:29,480
Well this is like why we need to turn into seahorses and like, you know, just-

1517
01:32:29,480 --> 01:32:30,920
It would be so much better.

1518
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,520
And I'd happily look after him.

1519
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:38,240
But no, I'm a very proactive person and I'm on my feet constantly all day every day.

1520
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,040
And I'm, that's where I'm happiest.

1521
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:49,120
So I know that taking time out and taking time to be physically different is going to

1522
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,520
be hard for me.

1523
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:57,920
So yeah, I think until, until we are really sure, like when we got the dog, we all said

1524
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:02,440
to each other, we need to be really, really, really sure that we want this.

1525
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:05,920
Like we want to want it more than anything we've ever wanted.

1526
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:07,520
That's when we're allowed to get the dog.

1527
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,020
You know, it's always a nice idea.

1528
01:33:09,020 --> 01:33:14,720
But until you're absolutely prepped and absolutely sure, don't do it.

1529
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:16,840
And so we saved up heaps of money.

1530
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:20,400
Like we did heaps of research.

1531
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:25,400
And it took it, it was a whole year of really wanting that dog before we got him.

1532
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:26,800
And it was the best thing ever.

1533
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:28,880
We still were absolutely not ready.

1534
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:30,920
Like he arrived and I was like, that's too small.

1535
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:31,920
Oh my God.

1536
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:33,440
I don't know how to look after it.

1537
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:35,600
It's going to die.

1538
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:40,360
And he cried for like 72 hours when we first brought him home and it was hell.

1539
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:45,040
And I was like, this is, and apparently a dog at eight weeks is a child at nine months.

1540
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:52,520
And I was like, Nick, nine months of whatever this eight weeks has been is the most horrifying

1541
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,080
thing I can think of.

1542
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:57,440
I also don't deal very well with no sleep.

1543
01:33:57,440 --> 01:34:02,000
Like I'm a, I'm like a hit the hay and bounce back kind of person.

1544
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:07,680
But if I can't sleep disaster, I've just become subhuman.

1545
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:09,200
I'm getting so many insights.

1546
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:10,200
I know.

1547
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:14,400
And that's the thing is that I'm like, I love kids so much and I want them.

1548
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:18,160
And I used to, I remember being, when I was younger, I was like, Oh, if I'm really rich,

1549
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,320
I'm going to have four kids.

1550
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:23,640
Because I love them and it would be so great and it would be awesome.

1551
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:26,480
But now I'm like, that sounds so hard.

1552
01:34:26,480 --> 01:34:29,320
Like the older that I get, the less sure I am.

1553
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:30,320
Yeah.

1554
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,320
I think it's a lot of being pregnant.

1555
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:37,680
That's like, it's either you have twins.

1556
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:39,560
Which sounds horrible.

1557
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:44,760
Or you're giving birth four times, which can also be a lot of strain on the body.

1558
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:45,760
Yeah.

1559
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,760
Um, cause I, I grew up with somebody who had like eight or nine.

1560
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:49,760
Holy moly.

1561
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:50,760
Yeah.

1562
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:55,640
And a lot of humans, but you know, like so many humans, but I mean, it's also kind of

1563
01:34:55,640 --> 01:35:01,960
like the thing when you do have a lot of like, you know, I think I know when personally with

1564
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:08,480
my parents, um, like they had me at 30, like I think my dad was 32 and my mom was like

1565
01:35:08,480 --> 01:35:12,640
31 and you know, like they were just like, well, you know, like, and they have my brother

1566
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:14,560
at like their late twenties.

1567
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,280
I mean, I'm 31 now.

1568
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:22,920
I don't expect to have kids until I'm 35 and like Ms. 28 and we're not like, Oh yeah, we've

1569
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:24,680
got to, you know, like.

1570
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:29,160
But it is kind of that whole, Oh shit, you know, and everyone talks about it.

1571
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:31,280
And like, I hear all the horror stories.

1572
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:36,920
Um, but you know, but then there are people from high school who just have like four kids

1573
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:37,920
now.

1574
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:38,920
I know.

1575
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:39,920
And I'm like, wild.

1576
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:40,920
That's wild to me.

1577
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:41,920
I couldn't look after a kid at 22.

1578
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:42,920
Goodness.

1579
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:43,920
No.

1580
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:44,920
Yeah.

1581
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:45,920
I would drop it.

1582
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:49,200
And I mean, that works for some people, but it terrifies me.

1583
01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:56,040
I think it terrifies me because I love kids so much that the concept of just not being

1584
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:00,760
capable enough already enough is terrifying.

1585
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:02,760
I want to do a really good job.

1586
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:09,880
And you're like, that's a real person that you are bringing into a strange world and

1587
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:11,360
it's a big job.

1588
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:13,720
And I know that they'll become your everything.

1589
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:17,160
And then it's just, yeah.

1590
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:18,160
Concepts of losing yourself.

1591
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:22,440
And make sure that you're in a place that you're comfortable enough to do that.

1592
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:25,120
And yeah, terrifying.

1593
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:30,440
I will, we will eventually, but um, this year it's, it's eggs freezing time.

1594
01:36:30,440 --> 01:36:35,960
I think it's too much career stuff to do.

1595
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:39,440
Oh, you're like, I've got a whole life to live.

1596
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:40,800
Oh my God.

1597
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:47,600
I think my mom had my sister at 28 and like, honestly, between 19 and 28 was a blur for

1598
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:48,600
me.

1599
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,280
I remained 19 until I turned 28 and then I was like, Oh, my back hurts.

1600
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:52,280
I'm 28.

1601
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:53,280
Oh yeah.

1602
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:58,280
My, my 30th birthday, my leg went seeing, I was like down on the count and I had, I

1603
01:36:58,280 --> 01:36:59,960
never run at work was like, Oh, did you drink?

1604
01:36:59,960 --> 01:37:02,840
And I was like, I had one drink and I turned around on the spot.

1605
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:03,840
My knee went click.

1606
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:05,840
You're like, that's, that's aging.

1607
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:07,400
I've now officially old.

1608
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:08,400
Yeah.

1609
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:09,400
No.

1610
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:14,520
And it's also like the fun thing I like telling people is your metabolism is fucked as an

1611
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:15,520
adult.

1612
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:19,320
You can't eat as much as you'd like to eat because suddenly you just go, Oh, I'm really

1613
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:20,320
bloated today.

1614
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:23,360
And you're like, feel sick or you can't drink as much as you used to.

1615
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:24,360
Oh God.

1616
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:25,360
No.

1617
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:26,360
Cause this thing called a hangover happens.

1618
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:27,360
It's awful.

1619
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:28,360
It's awful.

1620
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:30,360
I hate hangovers so much.

1621
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:37,600
I, as a teenager, I used to go out every day except Tuesdays.

1622
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:39,880
Every day, every night I was out somewhere.

1623
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:40,880
Yeah.

1624
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:41,880
Now I can't do it.

1625
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:42,880
Mental.

1626
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:43,880
You know, I remember I used to-

1627
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:44,880
Why was that enjoyable as well?

1628
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:47,160
What was I doing every night?

1629
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:48,800
What they weren't, I wasn't hanging out with different people.

1630
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:49,800
It was like the same people.

1631
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:50,800
Crumbas.

1632
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:52,960
And also like, how did I afford it?

1633
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:57,600
Like all of my babysitting money was just going out every single night and drinking

1634
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:02,000
like, Oh, I honestly, if I have more than three drinks, I can absolutely feel it the

1635
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:03,000
next day.

1636
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:04,000
Yeah.

1637
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:08,480
I, I, I like only have now one and I leave it.

1638
01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:09,480
It's safer.

1639
01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:10,480
Yes.

1640
01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:15,040
It makes you sound really old, but we, we, we are 30.

1641
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:16,040
That's what happens.

1642
01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:19,760
It wasn't, I promise it's just what happens and it sneaks up on you.

1643
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,240
And then you're like, Oh God, I feel everything.

1644
01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:23,240
Yeah.

1645
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:27,920
And then your knees start to click away, just all down.

1646
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:33,440
It was like, it was the idea I got to, before we wrap up, I remember yesterday I had to

1647
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:36,880
do kneeling for a scene that we shot on the sand dunes.

1648
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:41,960
And I was like, literally every time I moved on my knees, I was like, these are sore now.

1649
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:47,680
I was like, this shouldn't happen because I've had years of training, but my knees now

1650
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:49,680
as an old person start ache.

1651
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:50,680
Yeah.

1652
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:52,680
Can't wait till I'm in my fifties.

1653
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:53,680
Yeah.

1654
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:56,680
And wait till you introduce a child to run after.

1655
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,720
That's what I feel like I need to be fit for.

1656
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,720
I'm like, I need to start running if I'm going to have a child.

1657
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:04,960
I need to start doing boot camp or something.

1658
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:05,960
Oh my God.

1659
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:09,040
I can barely walk up a sand dune.

1660
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:10,680
Although I can do a set of stairs.

1661
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:14,600
I'm fine with a set of stairs, but anything harder than that, I'm out for the count.

1662
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:15,600
Right.

1663
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,600
We both need to go Pilates.

1664
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:24,040
That's the 30 year old's exercise.

1665
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:27,040
My final question for you, Julie, is where can people find you on the internet?

1666
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:28,520
Where can they stalk you?

1667
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:29,520
Okay.

1668
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:31,800
Gosh, probably my Instagram is the best place to go.

1669
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:40,080
I've got the absurd name of Jouelzybabes88, J-U-L-Z-Y-B-A-B-E-S-A-D-E-Eight.

1670
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:44,840
But my company, the Little Eggs Collective, also has an Instagram that is very active.

1671
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:47,920
It is collectiveeggs is our Instagram.

1672
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,360
Or you can find us on our website, littleeggscollective.com.

1673
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:53,640
But yeah, that's me.

1674
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:55,200
I'm mostly very Instagram active.

1675
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:56,200
Yeah, you are.

1676
01:39:56,200 --> 01:39:57,200
I love images.

1677
01:39:57,200 --> 01:39:58,200
You do?

1678
01:39:58,200 --> 01:39:59,200
I love it.

1679
01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:00,200
You do.

1680
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:03,040
I'm going, what have you posted today?

1681
01:40:03,040 --> 01:40:09,040
There's so much like, I think it's just encapsulating your vibrant colors.

1682
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:10,040
Yeah, that's me.

1683
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:11,040
Yeah.

1684
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:12,040
Nuts.

1685
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:13,040
Love it.

1686
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:14,040
I love it.

1687
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:15,040
We're both going to get sectioned.

1688
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,040
But no, thank you so much for joining me.

1689
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:18,040
It was an absolute pleasure, Janne.

1690
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:19,600
Oh, thank you for having me.

1691
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:22,800
I'm sorry if I came across a lot, but that's who I am.

1692
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:23,800
She's a lot.

1693
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:25,800
Oh, never, never apologize.

1694
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:27,120
Firm and assertive.

1695
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:29,440
I love it.

1696
01:40:29,440 --> 01:40:31,840
But if you want to go and check out more of these episodes of The Things We Do, you can

1697
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:33,280
check them out on Apple and Spotify.

1698
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:36,360
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later.

1699
01:40:36,360 --> 01:41:05,880
Bye!