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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film life, television culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest all the way in Brisbane, my special friend Halle.

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Halle.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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I'm good, I'm pretty good thank you.

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Can I just say, from listening, I spent a solid week listening to your music.

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Not just a day, like a solid week.

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That is like, yeah, that's so cool.

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It's so good, so good.

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And I think it's interesting because I get a lot of vibe of, you know, like when you

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listen to music and you sort of just, everyone focuses more on the beat and the rhythm and

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everything.

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I think what I really focus on your songs particularly is like the songs and the lyrics,

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everything about the lyrics.

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Because it does feel like very genuine on someone who has this inner turmoil of how

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they fit in and then sort of like ticking boxes.

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Because I get a sense that like, especially, you know, particularly some of the songs that

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are particularly about love are very much like, how do I fit this category?

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How do I, you know, and then there's also like a bit of hatred towards situations.

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Oh yeah, completely.

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You get all the spectrum of emotions with it.

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But I'm really cool.

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That's really cool that the lyrics stand out to you because that's probably like where

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I started by writing, like just with like lyric writing.

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And I love it.

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That's the thing I hear first in music.

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So that's really cool.

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Yeah, I think it particularly strikes out with Babysitter, which, you know, like I know,

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I know was the one sort of really that skyrocketed you for foremost and forefront.

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But it was kind of like, particularly for that song, because I had no idea what that

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song was about going in.

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So my initial reaction was curiosity and bewilderment.

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And then just slowly like I did some background research on it.

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And it's just, yeah, it's a very interesting because I've been in relationships like that

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where I've had to baby someone or like, you know, literally look after them.

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And it's shit.

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It sucks.

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It sucks so much.

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And it's crazy to me the amount of people after I released that song that like related

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to it or like felt like they finally had a way to describe what that is.

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Like, yeah, it's just the shittest.

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Like, no, like having to baby a grown person.

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No, it's just not the vibe ever.

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It's kind of like also because you know, now that I'm 30 and in a healthy relationship,

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which is dear God, it does happen.

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Amazing.

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I don't know what happened.

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Pure luck.

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But one of those things that I always think about is like my young self and particularly

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like, you know, being that trial and error where you do date people who are absolute

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shitheads and you know, and you sort of write because I tended to write a lot of like stories

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based on my exes.

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Yeah.

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So I would I would normally like scribble notes on how to turn them into evil characters.

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Oh my god.

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I was the worst because you know, like my childhood was just trying to write a story

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about everyone that I thought was just not a nice person.

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And I still do that now.

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Like it's it's kind of amazing because it doesn't really stop.

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And I often say this to people because like, you know, we reflect everything and sort of

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especially as artists into creative things as as trauma.

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And you know, like there is a distinct like thing of how do you how do we express that

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self because, you know, it must have been like that when you were a young a young human

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to be like singer songwriter.

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Like where did this journey start for you?

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Like how old were you like when you were like, this is how I'm going to process, I guess,

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emotions.

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Yeah.

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Well, I my first memory of writing a song was when I was seven and I had a big, big

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crush on this guy named Jacob.

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Yeah, it was massive.

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It controlled my whole life in grade two.

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And I I wrote a song like I just was like, I don't know, like really why I wrote like

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lyrics.

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I think I was just like, obviously listen to music and I had this realization that I

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could write lyrics and it doesn't have to be like a story or a poem.

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I don't know.

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And then I just wrote this song called and it was titled I Love You So Much.

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I like still have the sheet of paper somewhere where I wrote it down on but it's like, I

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want to like run in the clouds with you.

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I don't know.

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It was just super cheesy.

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But I think that's when I realized that I could get out what I'm feeling and especially

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if I felt out of control in a situation like that's the place where I could have control

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and like reflect on my emotions.

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And I don't think I don't know ever since that moment, I kind of used that medium to

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release that feeling.

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It's like basically journaling but like also in a way that made me feel more excited and

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I don't know, I feel like just music in general makes me feel and being able to sing it because

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I always loved singing just felt so much more connected spiritually to myself.

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And yeah, it was just a really good medium for me.

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And like I've basically done it my whole life kind of thing.

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Yeah, that's that's nuts.

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Like I mean, did you ever sort of see it as something you would ever do as a career?

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And you were like, oh, people want to hear my emotions and thoughts?

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Yeah, definitely.

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I took it out to my parents.

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I would have.

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I for sure would have.

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And I was like, guys, look at this really cool thing I just made.

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It's super cool.

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And then I would just sing it for them.

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I was also like growing up.

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My family were all quite creative and like musicians as well on my dad's side and a bit

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on my mom's.

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And so like, I don't know, every year we'd have Christmas plays and like we'd have full

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on like sing, dance, musical numbers and we'd all have a go at writing it and everything.

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So like performing was very normal for me.

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So I think I always thought I would perform.

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Oh, that's awesome.

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I mean, like it's kind of one of those things that I think especially, you know, with growing

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up, especially in a mass media like conglomerate that we are now.

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Do you remember when you first uploaded your first ever song?

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Was it independently and you just went upload to YouTube or was it kind of like, did you

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do a formal?

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No, I did the whole YouTube thing for a bit.

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And I think when I was like 13, maybe, I released a song called Come and Go onto YouTube.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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And just me playing it, you know, with my guitar.

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But that was my first release, I guess, now that I'm thinking about it.

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Is that still up on YouTube?

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I think so.

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Yeah.

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Oh no.

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It's under my full name, but only the people that deep dive will get to find out what my

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full name is and find it.

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Yeah, that's a secret you will take to your grave.

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Yeah.

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That's awesome.

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Isn't YouTube like, especially like since it became into popularity, the place where

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your past goes to die?

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Like there's some horrifying points of me when I was 18, but I'm like, no one should

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ever see.

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Totally.

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I think the one, the, you know, the thing that I love is the fact that you had no shame

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about going into it, you know, and like not, you know, not second guessing yourself.

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Is that being like, has that changed though over time?

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Are you kind of like a bit more self conscious about like some of the songs that you write

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or are you kind of like still very much in that vein of I want people to hear them all?

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I do definitely have a level of self confidence and self assurance that I know that I, like

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I feel confident in myself and my abilities, but like obviously, yeah, like there's always,

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especially when it became a business and it became monetized and you know, like coming

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out of high school, I feel like it was really easy to be the best or like the like very

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part of the scene.

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And then suddenly there's a million people doing what you do.

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And like, I think it's hard not to compare and to remember that you're like an individual

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and special in your own way.

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And I feel like I lost myself a bit like through just before COVID kind of, I was like, what

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am I doing and what even is my music anymore?

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I didn't really feel like writing much because I like didn't feel as passionate because it

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just felt like it, you know, I had to prove something or write for someone else.

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But I got back, I got back this year, I think a bit, but that's those insecurities will

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always be there.

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I feel like, but it's just like the way I manage them and the self talk, the conversations

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I have with myself.

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Are you a talk out loud kind of person?

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Sometimes for sure.

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Yeah, actually I am.

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I really am.

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No, I'm just realizing that I'll talk to myself in the mirror when I feel down and I'm trying

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to give myself a pep talk.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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I'm the same.

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I used to do that all the time.

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I used to like as a young kid, entertain myself by talking to myself.

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And that was kind of like how I dealt with a lot of like, you know, childhood angst and

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everything.

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Yeah.

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It does help.

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Yeah.

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And you're just like, it's kind of a reminder for me that it's like, I don't know, like

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everyone's here, but really it's just you.

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And you can just be like friends with yourself or give yourself support.

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Like I think it's cool.

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Yeah.

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And it goes back to that sort of like where we're constantly churning and stuff because,

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you know, obviously, you know, monetization and, you know, like, you know, like gain is

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important to, you know, keep living and keep running.

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But at the same time, we do everything for the love of, you know, passion and art and

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what we want to tell.

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Yeah.

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And it's reminding ourselves that to be grounded, especially in, I guess, the social media bubble

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as well, because, you know, the one thing I notice, you know, especially is the comparison

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that, you know, like, I think particularly like, you know, when you start ideas or you

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start anything and you go, oh, well, someone else has already done it.

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So why should I do it?

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Like someone else is clearly doing it.

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And it goes back to that individualism of like what makes my opinion so special and

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my like thought process so special.

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Yeah.

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I think, like, do you find that you take periodic breaks from social media to kind of like step

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away and not let yourself kind of go into this like big social media bubble?

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I don't.

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Or I never have yet.

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Yeah.

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Maybe it'd be good for me.

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I also just haven't found a time where I don't need social media for my business.

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Like I haven't really had a proper stint or time off where I can allow myself to do that

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almost.

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And it's definitely something I want to do soon because I'm starting to feel the burnout

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and I feel like it would be really nice.

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But I also, I don't know, I feel like there's when I'm on social media, I'm trying more

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so to just be like frame it as a business thing now.

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And that's kind of how I help myself not to compare too much, I guess.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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Do you take the times off social media?

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I try to.

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Not as well as I should.

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I'm in the same boat where I like, you know, constantly have to promote like the podcast

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or, you know, like little bits and bobs.

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So it's like my brain goes into, as long as I'm doing something to brand, then that's

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my excuse.

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But I do think it comes down to that, like, it is good to sort of have that switch off

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period.

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And it's why I like, I embrace, you know, it's the difference as well between like working

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holidays and holidays.

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Like the excitement of, there's only a little bit of excitement of a working holiday because

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the moment you actually get home, you're more exhausted than when you left.

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Totally.

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Like I imagine you, because you just got off tour.

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Like how was your fatigue like when you got home?

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I'm still exhausted.

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I also, and I think it's a thing lots of musicians talk about, but I feel the post tour blues.

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And just like, it's so weird when you like plan for something for so long and there's

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so much like chaos and then you just come home and it's like stopped and it's like the

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air's still and you're like, this is weird.

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So I'm definitely going through that as we speak.

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But yeah, I don't know, the fatigue's a real thing.

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Yeah.

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I think it like hits me like a brick.

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But you know, then I think now that it's Christmas time, I'm looking forward to just like that

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Christmas period break or I can not think about it.

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Have you got like time off around, do you always make sure you have time off around

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certain parts of the year?

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Yeah, I definitely around Christmas I will have time off, but I'm also releasing an EP

241
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,000
early next year.

242
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,480
So I'm like, you know, still got to work really hard until then.

243
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:40,160
Is that basically still in recording phase or is it sort of in mixing phase at the moment

244
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,160
for you?

245
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,160
Oh, it's all done.

246
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,160
Oh wow.

247
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,160
Yeah.

248
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,760
I'm really excited to release it.

249
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:52,960
Yeah, but like it's more so you know, all the prep around a release as big as a body

250
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,880
of work, you know?

251
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,120
And because everyone goes away for Christmas, everyone has their break, you got to kind

252
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,160
of be prepared for that, you know, like to do it before that, I guess.

253
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,160
Yeah.

254
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:11,960
Because I mean, like, does this sort of EP, like, especially for you, encapsulate a moment

255
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,280
for you, you know, because I know, I know it's about love, but you know, what's the

256
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,240
biggest thing, do you think this slice of life is going to feel for you, maybe even

257
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,480
like five or 10 years?

258
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:29,920
Yeah, I feel like it's such a timestamp of like, a year of my life, probably ending,

259
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:35,160
like, yeah, beginning of this year, like, like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's kind

260
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,720
of my whole journey with kind of, I don't know, like coming out of like, a really serious

261
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:46,600
relationship that where I was really in love, and then like, heartbreak and finding myself

262
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,560
again, and exploring my queerness again.

263
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,280
So it's like, it's just such a little like, pocket of my life where I like feel like I'll

264
00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,120
look back on in five or 10 years and be like, oh, that was such a pivot point for me.

265
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,720
Yeah, so it's really special that I get to put it out there.

266
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,520
Like I, I'm so proud of it.

267
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:07,520
I'm so excited.

268
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:08,960
I can't wait to hear it.

269
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,640
I've got like, like the pre-order on my Apple iTunes, so you know.

270
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:14,640
Oh, sick!

271
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:15,640
It's sitting there.

272
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,640
Thank you.

273
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:17,640
It's okay.

274
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:24,120
But I mean, like, one of the, one of the things as well, you know, because I know how much

275
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,440
you heavily talk about queerness as well, and you know, like, when did you find out

276
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,240
in yourself that you identified as queer?

277
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,960
Like how old were you when you kind of went, this is who I am?

278
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,000
Yeah, well, I didn't clock it.

279
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,480
And like when I say I didn't clock it, because I'm so, I'm pansexual.

280
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:48,340
So I dated a lot of like, men experience a lot of heteronormative relationships and still

281
00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:49,840
really enjoyed them.

282
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:56,480
So I feel like I didn't really have the, the realization until I met a woman that I liked.

283
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,740
And then I was like, oh my God, no way.

284
00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:04,480
And then I met her first year uni.

285
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,040
And then I was like, oh, true.

286
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,240
Like, I think I might be queer.

287
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,380
Yeah, and then I like had that relationship.

288
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:18,720
And I think from then on, like, I kind of realized, realized that that was kind of to

289
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:19,720
18.

290
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,480
And I kissed her on my 18th birthday.

291
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:22,480
It was super dramatic.

292
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,680
Oh, that's really cute.

293
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,200
So you two date dated for a while or?

294
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,200
Yeah, we did.

295
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,200
We did.

296
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:37,160
It was a typical kind of lesbian intense couple of months and then it ends.

297
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,360
But it was it had to happen and it was great.

298
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:41,920
Yeah, I'm still I'm still friends with her.

299
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,960
Like it's all it's all G. Oh, that's great.

300
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:44,960
Yeah, yeah.

301
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,720
I love that you just say it's lesbian intense, you know, because that is that is clearly

302
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:55,160
like one of my really good friends had a similar situation where she discovered her queerness

303
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,840
and dated a girl and they're still together.

304
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:57,840
Oh, lovely.

305
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800
Like, yeah, I remember you didn't see them for like three months.

306
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:01,800
Yeah.

307
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:09,040
It's like MIA, especially when you first realized that it's like the feeling is like, no way.

308
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,440
And you're like, so into it.

309
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,400
You don't want to think about anything else because you're like, this is so cool.

310
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,400
What the hell?

311
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,400
Yeah.

312
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:20,040
Especially being that young, you know, like, especially like, you know, people coming out

313
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,400
now and you know, because I didn't I didn't realize my own sexuality until I was about

314
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,400
26.

315
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,400
Oh, wow.

316
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,200
That was a long process.

317
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,240
And it wasn't for the fact that it was just because I was so I worked in a lot of heteronormative

318
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,920
like, you know, departments and places.

319
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,600
So it was very standardized to be like, you know, this is what you are.

320
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:42,600
Yeah.

321
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,760
And and liking men is is weird.

322
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,480
That was that was the norm.

323
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,720
So I think, you know, it's funny now being on the other the other foot and just being

324
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,840
like, oh, yeah, whatever.

325
00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:01,320
But yeah, until I was 26, it was kind of just like I knew guys and I had gay guys and stuff.

326
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040
And they'd always been like, no, you clearly like men.

327
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,880
Same with all my best friends.

328
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:06,880
Same with everyone.

329
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,080
They were just like, there's something like, why aren't you clocking this?

330
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,600
We've all clocked it.

331
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,480
So I think I think it's one of those things that I'm glad you discovered at 18, because

332
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:24,480
my cousin's kid who goes by they them have also discovered their queerness.

333
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,480
And they're 12.

334
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,120
Oh, I'm like, I wish I had that.

335
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:29,620
That is amazing.

336
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:34,280
And it's like, honestly, times are changing, because I hear more and more stories of that

337
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,480
from like, my friends, younger siblings being like, Yeah, I think I'm bisexual.

338
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:39,720
And it's just super casual.

339
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,760
Yeah, it's so exciting to see because even like, I don't know, I was in high school like

340
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,160
six years ago, maybe.

341
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,680
I don't know.

342
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:53,040
And like, that was not something like there were a couple of queer people at my school.

343
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,760
And that was crazy.

344
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:55,760
Yeah.

345
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,400
And it's so cool to see that it's so normalized now.

346
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,400
I think it also for me in particular, like it was kind of like a huge stress off my mental

347
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,480
health.

348
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,040
And you know, like, and pretending I wasn't somebody else.

349
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,120
Because I find like, it's the great thing when you sort of hear, you know, people because

350
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,080
it's funny as well.

351
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:21,880
Because I think, particularly Sydney, I think there's pockets of Sydney, which, you know,

352
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:27,680
I love Sydney, but it has pockets where there's just a lot of we heteronormative people.

353
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,480
And I'm like, what is it about?

354
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,480
Especially Australia?

355
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,040
Like, what is it about Australian people who think that is normal?

356
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,720
I know.

357
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,640
And like, we, my partner is amazing.

358
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,220
And like, we chat about it on a regular basis about, you know, like things that, you know,

359
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:46,740
we want to tell our parents and then things that we don't.

360
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:51,000
But obviously, like, yeah, it's it's funny, because I know, I know some family members

361
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,960
who will just refuse, like, even if if, you know, like, people want to change their names

362
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,720
or anything like that, they're like, nah, you know, it doesn't matter what they want.

363
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,640
It's not what's proper.

364
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:08,040
And I'm like, that's so bizarre that I think in this modern, like 2022 society, that we

365
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:14,460
still think that rigid regimented lifestyle is normal.

366
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:16,280
And especially what queer actually means.

367
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,280
I know.

368
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,720
It's so interesting that people think that because you're queer, you have to wear colors.

369
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:21,720
Totally.

370
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,520
I remember the first time I dyed my hair, everyone was like, you're gay.

371
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,720
And like, why, why do I just have to be gay?

372
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,720
Right?

373
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:30,720
Totally.

374
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:31,720
Totally.

375
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,720
Yeah.

376
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,160
That's so interesting.

377
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,600
My brother's straight.

378
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,200
And whenever he dyes his hair, everyone's like, oh, you're gay.

379
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,880
And he's like, well, I mean, it doesn't matter.

380
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,920
But like, yeah, no.

381
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,080
Like it's that's such a good point.

382
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:47,680
Because is it just the two of you?

383
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:48,680
Yeah.

384
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,680
Yeah.

385
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,680
So who's the oldest?

386
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,560
So you've got all the Kremlin of Krem.

387
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,560
You can kind of tease him.

388
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,560
Yeah.

389
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,560
Oh yeah.

390
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,560
I'll be.

391
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,560
I love that.

392
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,760
But it's interesting because my older brother is very straight.

393
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,840
I think I've always been the one who I was like, I always knew.

394
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,360
And I think I remember being about like six, six or seven being like, what if I liked this

395
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,640
and what if I did this?

396
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,320
And I think it was like, you know, my mother's amazing now.

397
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,060
But I think back then when it was like, you know, late nineties, early two thousands,

398
00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:21,640
she was like, but I know you like girls.

399
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,680
Yeah, totally.

400
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,880
Did you ever like what because your family was so creative, did you sort of like how

401
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,720
did you discover yourself with a very easy process?

402
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,480
Were your family always very supportive?

403
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:34,480
Yes.

404
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,400
So back on my brother, he's the best.

405
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,920
But my parents always would like sit us down and have these chats growing up when we were

406
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:50,200
in like late primary into high school and be like, just so you know, guys, like if you're

407
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,680
ever gay, that's OK, you can tell us.

408
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,800
And I was always there like, I'm so into men, like what, whatever.

409
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,060
But they used to say it because they thought my brother was gay.

410
00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,840
And then I, yeah, then I was shocked them all.

411
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,620
And then I would just said, oh, I'm dating a girl now.

412
00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:10,440
And then just kind of explained that I don't think it's one or the other.

413
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:11,440
I think it's just both.

414
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,720
And they were like, and then my brother was like to my dad, oh, you owe me five bucks.

415
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,120
And they already placed bets on it.

416
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:26,600
So I think they had a feeling that this friend that I was bringing over wasn't a friend.

417
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,160
So yeah, I was quite lucky.

418
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,680
Only with my grandma did I have some issues there.

419
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,360
Like she wouldn't vote for gay marriage, things like that.

420
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:41,640
But I also feel like that generation, like those expectations are just unrealistic, I

421
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,640
think.

422
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,280
I think it comes out of like religious status or, you know.

423
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,280
Exactly.

424
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,520
Yeah, it's, I think, I think it's like, I also just felt it was very ridiculous that,

425
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,280
you know, the government didn't just go straight to the board.

426
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,520
We're just going to legalise this.

427
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,680
It has to be a voting system, which, you know, even then divided the country a fair, fair

428
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:02,680
little while.

429
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:03,680
I know.

430
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,680
And it's so weird.

431
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,680
It's so weird.

432
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,240
And it's also like, you know, people like us, you know, who talk so openly about, about

433
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,800
stuff like this, like, what the plebiscite was only like six years ago or something like

434
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:15,800
that.

435
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:16,800
It wasn't that long.

436
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:17,800
Yeah.

437
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:24,240
And now we're just all kind of like living this, you know, still kind of dream, but there's

438
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:32,720
still a lot of like, you know, I guess, critiques and, and decisions about how people live.

439
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,920
Like have you, have you managed to avoid the haters of, of like your identity throughout

440
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:39,920
your life?

441
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:46,360
I think initially when I first, yeah, came out as, I wouldn't say coming up, but when

442
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:50,360
I first realised I was queer, I was really naive to it.

443
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,320
And I thought everything was just like really fine.

444
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,720
Like, like I was like, yeah, this is so cool.

445
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:58,720
Like, or whatever.

446
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:05,720
And yeah, as I've gotten older, I've definitely noticed more so the microaggressions within

447
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,440
just having more of a platform.

448
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,320
And I don't know, just the way people treat you.

449
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,320
I don't know.

450
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,320
Yeah.

451
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,320
I've definitely experienced, like, I wouldn't say I've had, I have had hate on things like

452
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,320
my body hair and stuff on TikTok.

453
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,320
What?

454
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,320
Yeah.

455
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,360
I think it's just bizarre because I'm like, I just forget.

456
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:35,400
Sometimes I'm like, I must be living in a bubble because who cares about armpit hair?

457
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,400
Like it's so weird.

458
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,400
Yeah.

459
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:43,520
But that's like the kind of hate I've received and not so much for being, you know, went

460
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:49,000
for when my music videos have like a woman or an aphab in them, I don't experience it

461
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,520
so directly like that.

462
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:56,840
But I also feel like that's the way, I don't know, homophobic people work in Australia.

463
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,320
I feel like it is microaggressions.

464
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,680
Sorry, I'm going on a tangent with this now.

465
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,680
No, I love it.

466
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,680
I love it.

467
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,680
Give it to me.

468
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,640
But I also think because I am, a lot of the time, femme appearing, like people treat me

469
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,000
differently because they think I am straight.

470
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Yeah.

471
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,440
So I feel like in a way it feels really invalidating, but it also is lucky because I have it.

472
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,960
I haven't experienced as much of that hatred directly.

473
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,960
Yeah.

474
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:24,960
Yeah.

475
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:25,960
I don't know.

476
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,200
It's, it's, oh my God.

477
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,200
No, I did experience, sorry.

478
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:35,560
I had an article written about me recently that was saying that my, my, I played Big

479
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:44,840
Sound in September and that my, my presentation was this weird fake queer.

480
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:51,040
I was trying to be queer or something, but it didn't hit the mark and it was like this

481
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,300
straight cis van riding about it.

482
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:58,000
And I was like, yeah, that I did, I have experienced it quite recently.

483
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Oh my God.

484
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Yeah.

485
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200
But yeah, that's like, that's kind of my journey with it.

486
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,200
Wow.

487
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,120
Why does it only come from cis white men?

488
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:14,200
Why is it only, um, it's like, I think, I think it was over to, you know, like particularly

489
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:19,480
to me, it's very often like a lot of the times I'll sign off emails with my pronouns and

490
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,080
everything and like, you know, but I, I'm like you most of the time I just present very

491
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,640
like heteronormative because it's like day to day life.

492
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,480
And then like, um, you know, when I paint my fingernails and stuff, I kind of like,

493
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,920
I remember there was a bit of time where I was like, Oh no, I, oh, my friend did that.

494
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,480
Like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't me.

495
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,160
It wasn't like, it couldn't have been me.

496
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,440
And it was all like sort of like trying to usher away kind of like that, that weird hatred.

497
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:54,040
But um, you know, like the conversations I think also that I have on a regular basis,

498
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,680
like at the, at the moment, um, we're like my partner and I, we're deciding on engagement

499
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,400
rings because we're getting engaged and it's very exciting.

500
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,400
Congratulations.

501
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,400
Thank you.

502
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,400
That's cool.

503
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,400
So cool.

504
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:12,120
But I mean, like we're, we're looking on Etsy and then like looking at like rings and a

505
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:16,480
lot of them are just, you know, like if you get a masculine ring and I'm doing this in

506
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,600
very big quotation marks, um, they're like very thick rings.

507
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,600
And if you get feminine rings, they're like dainty and pretty.

508
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,360
And I'm like, we both just want like pretty and simple.

509
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,000
And we're like, it doesn't matter.

510
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:37,560
And it's so interesting that even like rings, like, uh, such a go to a jewelers and they're

511
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,240
like, Oh, you want a man's ring.

512
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,680
So therefore here's the man's selection.

513
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,680
Totally.

514
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,400
And this is what I mean about the micro things.

515
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,720
Like they're the most detrimental things because people don't notice them as much.

516
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:57,040
No, I mean, like, you know, particularly because your, your music videos, especially like your,

517
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,200
your outfits, which I love.

518
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,200
Thank you.

519
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,720
Who does I, do you decide on your own outfits when you do a music video?

520
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,480
Yeah, I've been more passionate about it lately.

521
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,720
So I've been styling myself.

522
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,720
It's been fun.

523
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,720
I love it.

524
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:17,120
I love, um, you know, the, the recent, you know, uh, love music video, which was, I had

525
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,160
a good local watch of that and that was quite fun.

526
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,480
Oh, thank you.

527
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,560
How long does it take to film one of those?

528
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,760
Oh my God.

529
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760
This one, it takes a while.

530
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:36,200
Like, so this one, all the footage got lost after the first day of shooting.

531
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,560
Yeah, it was devastating.

532
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:44,680
I, it took like, it was like a full, full day, like a, like a 12 hour day to shoot it.

533
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,000
And like the pre-planning is hectic, you know, you got to make sure you have every light

534
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,800
right organized.

535
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Every person has all their props, like, you know, you know how it be.

536
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,120
Just lots of stuff.

537
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,240
And I was very in charge of that process because I wrote it all.

538
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,400
And so it was, it was stressful and then all the footage got lost.

539
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,880
Anyway, so this one took a little bit longer to shoot, um, like two full days.

540
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Um, it, yeah, it's just such a process to get every angle and like, but I love it.

541
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,760
I love shooting music videos.

542
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:21,360
Cause I've, I've watched, I, I think like each one has a very distinct vibe and, um,

543
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,840
and kind of like, I love the ones probably like do it is also a great, great one, even

544
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,640
though like there's a lot of string involved in that one.

545
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,640
There's a lot.

546
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,880
Do you like symbolism?

547
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,160
Is that a thing that you drive for in your music videos?

548
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Oh, for sure.

549
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Yeah.

550
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Um, well, I feel like for do it, that felt appropriate.

551
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Yeah.

552
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:48,400
Um, like for symbolism kind of, but like the string was like meant to be kind of like a

553
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,800
maze slash laser beam kind of thing.

554
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,640
If you can imagine like that I had to get through to get to the other side.

555
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Yeah.

556
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:02,600
So it's like a simple, I guess of my imposter syndrome in my queerness kind of, um, and

557
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,440
orange is like got its own like representation there cause it was orange string anyway, you

558
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,320
know how that all goes.

559
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,800
But yeah, I loved that.

560
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,280
Um, cause I, I think that one of the things that I always vibe about your music videos

561
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:25,120
as well is it's sort of like a hits me with nostalgia for like early 2000s music videos.

562
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:31,840
And it's so much, it's very, I want to say lovely and simple.

563
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,560
There's a distinct simpleness about them as well.

564
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,960
Cause it's like, you know, it's a lot of the time they're sort of like pretty self-contained

565
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,960
storylines.

566
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,600
Um, and I think that's what makes them quite interesting because when you have a lot of

567
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:52,040
like, um, going on, you really kind of like, you know, you're tuning into the performance

568
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,720
of the artist more than I guess all these like side characters.

569
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,640
Cause um, my partner is a massive fan of Taylor Swift.

570
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,960
So we watch a lot of her music videos.

571
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,680
And they're like, she's great.

572
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:10,560
I love Taylor, but it's like, you know, like this insane elaborate, um, music videos.

573
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,080
And I think, you know, what, what drives me about like particularly yours is it feels

574
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:20,800
like early 2000s where, you know, um, your budgets kind of like, you know, a bit in between

575
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,280
and everything is like, okay, well, what can we do with like a room or what can we do with

576
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,280
a couple of rooms?

577
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,280
Like, you know, let's make something.

578
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,520
And I love that sort of ground feel up of, you know, um, you know, just everyone sort

579
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,680
of feeling like this vibe and it's, it's very kind of like, yeah, listening to your music

580
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,360
just like throws me back to when I was like 10 or 12.

581
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,360
Honestly love that.

582
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,520
Do you, are you a big fan of like particularly like any sort of era of music?

583
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,520
I mean, isn't it obvious?

584
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,560
I did the 2000s.

585
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,000
Um, yeah.

586
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,480
And I just love all the aesthetic of that era.

587
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,960
Like, you know, just Avril and Britney, I don't know, there was just so much good stuff

588
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,040
happening then.

589
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,720
I'm like, I want to bring it back.

590
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,080
And also all the movies from that era, you know, lots of them are problematic, but we

591
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,080
skim past that.

592
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,880
And and like, it's just, it evokes such a happiness and a nostalgia for me when I watch

593
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,600
them and it's such a comfort zone.

594
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,480
And I feel like I, I just love it.

595
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,400
So I definitely, that's why it's very present in my, in my stuff.

596
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,080
Also the feeling of nostalgia is just like one of my favorite feelings.

597
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,160
So I just wanted to evoke that for people, I think.

598
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,160
Yeah, I love it.

599
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:40,800
I think it's like, what I love is the Avril Lavigne kind of angle because all I think

600
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,840
is, um, you know, um, girlfriend, the song, girlfriend and stuff like that, where it's

601
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,960
just, you know, years, years of being a kid listening to that on repeat.

602
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,080
Um, and you know, and Britney Spears and everything.

603
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,920
And I just think that I kind of miss that era of like music where everyone's kind of

604
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:07,600
just doing this weird vibe, but it's also like sparkly outfits or kind of insane flared

605
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,600
pants.

606
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,400
Can I also say though that the sparkly flared pants look great on you.

607
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,480
That is, that is a look.

608
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,480
Thank you.

609
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,560
Do you often go to Vinnie's and try on most of their outfits?

610
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,360
Um, I love Vinnie's, um, but this one was already in my cupboard this fit.

611
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,360
Really?

612
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,360
Oh yeah.

613
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,680
I had it from like a couple years ago for some like shoot, I don't even know, like uni

614
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:32,920
shoot thing I did for a friend.

615
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,960
And then I was like, oh my God, it's the perfect outfit.

616
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,760
But yeah, I love Vinnie's, love Vinnie's.

617
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,440
Do you like, have you got a massive closet at home where you just like have heaps of

618
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,440
clothes these days?

619
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,560
Um, my closet, I wouldn't call it small.

620
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:52,480
Um, but I think, yeah, it, look, I've got a lot of costume stuff in there.

621
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,480
You just never know.

622
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,480
You just don't.

623
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,920
When did you, you know how like, you know, people probably say you have a vibe, especially

624
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,600
with like, you know, your coloured hair and everything sort of changing, like particularly

625
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,440
all the time, um, in press release photos or publicity photos.

626
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,640
Do you, do you feel like there's an advantage of people not always, you know, recognising

627
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:16,640
you when you walk on the street?

628
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,560
Do you feel like people won't always recognise you?

629
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,640
I feel like my hair colour doesn't change that much.

630
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Like the orange is the new vibe.

631
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,880
And then before that it was like this weird ombre for like two years.

632
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,880
Oh really?

633
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:31,880
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

634
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,880
Oh, you're right.

635
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,640
I had the pink stage.

636
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:35,640
Yeah.

637
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,560
And that was specifically for Lava Girl Halloween costume.

638
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,160
So I forgot about that.

639
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,160
Yeah, you're right.

640
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,160
Um, but I don't know.

641
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,320
Like, I feel like I'm done at the stage of being recognised on this street all the time,

642
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,720
but I feel like surely it wouldn't change my look that much.

643
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:51,720
No.

644
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:54,960
Look, honestly, I'll get back to you in a couple of years when that's an issue.

645
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,400
Yeah, please keep me updated because I'm genuinely intrigued.

646
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,880
I want to move us on to mental health as well because you know, I know you're a big talker

647
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,320
about mental health.

648
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,600
Like how do you deal with, I guess, like with the touring and with the, you know, like emotional

649
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,440
keeping yourself together all the time, you know, because there must be an emotional overload.

650
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:24,200
Are you one person who decompresses by yourself or how do you sort of like choose to decompress?

651
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,720
Like to be honest, I'm still working this all out.

652
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:31,520
Um, I don't have answers yet fully.

653
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,600
I don't like do people find answers eventually, like fully?

654
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,600
I don't know.

655
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:44,640
But I, um, I, yeah, like I think, you know, just getting back into touring as well after

656
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,400
having a couple of years off because of obviously COVID.

657
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,880
It's just kind of working out those routines again, or like what is good for me and stuff.

658
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,640
I definitely, I'm an extrovert, but I need, I've realized as of recent, I need my time

659
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,680
alone to reflect and connect with myself as I feel like everyone does.

660
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,800
But yeah, I don't know touring, like definitely it takes it out of you.

661
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,240
And it's like hard when you're in so many different places to try and feel grounded,

662
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,080
I guess, or like feel at home.

663
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:22,040
And I think it's like trying to, I don't know.

664
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,200
I feel like my main goal is to just try and connect with myself and trust myself as much

665
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:32,520
as possible so that when I am touring, you know, I can find that comfort with me, but

666
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,080
yeah, I'm still working it out.

667
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,080
I think

668
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,080
I love that.

669
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,760
I mean, it's look, I'll tell you, I'm 30 and I still haven't walked all the secrets.

670
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,120
I don't think anyone really does.

671
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:50,120
I think it's like, um, it's a constant journey to work out what works for you and what doesn't

672
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,120
work for you.

673
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:58,160
Um, it's one of those things I feel like, you know, I sort of like diary to myself now,

674
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,600
you know, I sort of realized particularly with 2020, I sort of was, went from an extroverted

675
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,800
life to a very introverted life.

676
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,560
And that caused me to kind of like really reflect a lot of my mental health and everything

677
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,360
and you know, um, how, how all my thoughts circulated.

678
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,840
And you know, one of the, one of the biggest challenges was, you know, living on my own,

679
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,920
which, you know, for that, for the first two years of the pandemic.

680
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:27,000
So I really learned how to deal with myself, especially in crisis mode, um, how like my

681
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,200
panic attacks and stuff like that would, you know, formulate, um, because I didn't have

682
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,880
that support network all the time.

683
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:42,600
So you do kind of develop defense mechanisms and, or, um, you know, but are you, are you

684
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,360
like, do you currently, um, are you back at home with your parents or are you kind of

685
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,040
living out at home at the moment?

686
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,920
No, I live, um, with housemates or like my best friends, basically.

687
00:37:54,920 --> 00:38:00,680
Um, basically all the ones that were in the love music video, um, I live with.

688
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Um, yeah, but I, yeah, I don't know.

689
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,800
Like living out of home is also like, I've been out of home for two years now.

690
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,760
I don't know why I still say it like that, but I, yeah, it's just like, I feel like it's

691
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,760
really that step up of like, I don't know, I'm 23 and I feel like it's the prime time

692
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,600
people talk about where just like you're working out what is going on.

693
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,680
Like, I just feel like me and all my friends are just kind of like, what, like what is

694
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:26,960
going on right now?

695
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,320
I don't know.

696
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,400
Um, and still trying to find rhythms in our life that work for us.

697
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,940
It's kind of like that exploration stage where you're like trialing all these different things

698
00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:44,780
that might work for you to help you better yourself or to, to help, you know, as a tool

699
00:38:44,780 --> 00:38:49,680
that you can use, um, but it's like kind of trialing them all.

700
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,160
It's trial and error stage, I feel.

701
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,160
And then you find a couple and you keep them and then you, I don't know if that makes sense,

702
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,640
but I feel like that's what right now feels like.

703
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:00,640
Yeah.

704
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,640
I love that.

705
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,640
I think that makes sense.

706
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:03,640
Good.

707
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,640
Good.

708
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,480
I think it's also like, you know, particularly I like that sort of theory that you're throwing,

709
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,640
you know, like things and tools that might not work for you, but trialing them anyway

710
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:21,360
because I feel like the, the, you know, problem, especially because I, I, as much as I love

711
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:27,400
working, I do get overwhelmed sometimes when like chaos happens, you know, and I thrive

712
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,760
on chaos, but I also get overwhelmed.

713
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,840
It's one of those two, like double-edged swords situations.

714
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:32,840
I'm the same.

715
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:33,840
Yeah.

716
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:34,840
Yeah.

717
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,840
So it's like things could be going right one day and then suddenly things could still be

718
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,280
going right the next day, but I might feel like they're all going wrong and everything

719
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,360
that I've approached is bad or terrible or, you know, like the way my brain is operating

720
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,400
in this system is just going, this is the worst thing since, you know, because it's

721
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,400
not up to this weird perfection level that I have in my head.

722
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,320
Like are you, are you very much that like little voice in your head going, it's got

723
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,160
to be here rather than just being sort of content sometimes with what it is.

724
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,160
Totally.

725
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,160
I mean, and you're right.

726
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,800
Like it depends on the day.

727
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,360
Like some days I'll wake up and I'll be like, oh my God, this is, I'm killing it.

728
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,960
Everything's great.

729
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,520
Like everything's fantastic.

730
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,560
I couldn't want any more from this.

731
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,440
And then I wake up the next day and be like, wow, like I've really just dropped the ball.

732
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,040
Like nothing sounds good.

733
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,040
Nothing feels good.

734
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,040
Like, yeah.

735
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:31,720
So I definitely like, it's confusing that back and forth as well.

736
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:33,000
Like it feels like whiplash.

737
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Yeah.

738
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:40,840
I definitely get that and put that perfectionism is so annoying, but it's so present.

739
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:50,080
I feel like it's, it's so, um, that hard to know when the right time to let go is as well,

740
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,040
because especially in creative stuff, you could just go forever.

741
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,040
Yeah.

742
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,240
Like there's not really an end point.

743
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:00,160
It's like knowing when to cut off and just stop and be like, this is enough.

744
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,160
This is great.

745
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,960
It's kind of hard sometimes.

746
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,960
Yeah.

747
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,960
It's a hundred percent.

748
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:05,960
It's hard.

749
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:14,240
And I think, you know, I, I think also particularly it's like some days when I wake up and especially

750
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:19,480
I just know then, you know, whether my mood and I've had that thing where, you know, like

751
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,200
you wake up and everyone thinks you're an awful person because you've had a bad day

752
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,840
or you've, you're not in the mood.

753
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:24,840
Totally.

754
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,160
I think that's sort of like the challenge that I have with mental health, because what

755
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:35,120
I have is like a depression and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, which if most

756
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,760
people don't know, it basically means that I get hyper-focused or I completely can emotionally

757
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,240
lose interest in things.

758
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:43,240
Right.

759
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:44,240
Okay.

760
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:45,240
And it can, it can fluctuate.

761
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:50,720
Like the little things can fluctuate and stuff, but it is very like, um, I think a lot of

762
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:55,040
people who don't have it diagnosed or you, you know, haven't had treatment for it, it

763
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,040
can have more severe effects.

764
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:02,160
Luckily I was caught when I was five, but, um, the depression like happened much later

765
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,200
in life and I think was partially genetics and partly because of that.

766
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,200
So it was like, um, and you know, trigger warning for anyone who is listening, it's

767
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,920
going to get really real.

768
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,380
But, um, yeah, it was like a lot of my, um, you know, teenage years and stuff where we're

769
00:42:17,380 --> 00:42:22,040
dealing with like, you know, um, you know, suicidal thoughts and, you know, and depression

770
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,160
and everything like that.

771
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,920
So I feel that that always came out of perfectionism.

772
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:27,920
Right.

773
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,920
Yep.

774
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Uh, you know, like that, that sort of comparing yourself to your peers and you know, well,

775
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,300
these, you know, cause I think with ADHD, I didn't do as curriculally as well as other

776
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:41,360
students because my strengths lied in more creative things, but because the way school

777
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,520
was structured, it was academically based.

778
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,680
You know, it was like, if you're going to do school, you want to become an academic

779
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,900
or at least a, you know, uh, an English major.

780
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:56,720
And I was like, no, I want to be in either an actor or a musician or, or like, uh, theater,

781
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:58,440
you know, creator or like something like that.

782
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,440
I wanted to be in some sort of capacity to be a creator.

783
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,760
Like did you find with, you know, with yourself, especially in your teenage years, like when

784
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:12,120
did you, you realize, did you have a divide as well with school and the curriculum that's

785
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,120
structured?

786
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,120
I don't know.

787
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,560
I, I, my high school was like, I actually performed quite well, to be honest.

788
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:24,000
I, um, I didn't like school, but I thought I had to do really well.

789
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:31,360
So I worked really hard, which is kind of just like, like looking back, I'm like, like,

790
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:36,820
for instance, to get into my uni course, it was an audition, but I still really thought

791
00:43:36,820 --> 00:43:39,840
I needed to work hard to prove something to someone.

792
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,280
And I feel like it's similar, it kind of shows that perfectionism vibe.

793
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,760
Um, but I think, you know, because I didn't have ADHD or something, it was like, I, I

794
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,880
just put that in, but then didn't really get to write or be creative as much as I wanted.

795
00:43:53,880 --> 00:44:00,280
And although I like did music and drama, like it's still, I wasn't getting that fixed because,

796
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,240
you know, it's still curriculum based.

797
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:05,520
Um, I don't even really know where I was in high school.

798
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,160
Like looking back, I'm just like, like, it's such a bizarre period for me that I just feel

799
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,720
like I kind of zoned out and did what I was told.

800
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:17,480
And then like stepping out of high school, I'm like, oh, why did I do think I had to

801
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:18,480
do that?

802
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,480
Yeah.

803
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:20,480
I don't know.

804
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,280
Like I was almost like, thought I had to be this really good girl.

805
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,240
Like that was my experience with it anyway.

806
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:31,960
Um, and not step on anyone's toes also because I'm a massive people pleaser.

807
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,280
I was really, yeah, fully.

808
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,000
Um, yeah.

809
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,800
So that was my high school experience.

810
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,800
I think.

811
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,880
So do you, do you kind of look, cause I'm really intrigued about this, but do you kind

812
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,720
of look back at your younger self and sort of see the same person or do you see elements

813
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:49,840
of that person now?

814
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:58,240
I see, I think I see the same person kind of a definite actually elements, but I think

815
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,640
I see that I was trying all that.

816
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:12,000
I was there, but like, I was so stuck in something like, like holding myself back kind of.

817
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,760
It's like, I was like inside there and there were elements of me that were present, but

818
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,920
like, you know, just high school is cruel too.

819
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:25,200
So like, I feel like you can never fully flourish and be like your full self in that environment,

820
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,840
um, without like judgment and backlash.

821
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,120
Um, so yeah, I do.

822
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,120
I do see them.

823
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,680
I think I see it more in my inner child meaning more so when I was really young, I see Halle

824
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,400
that I kind of am now or like heading towards, I guess.

825
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:42,400
Yeah.

826
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:43,920
I, I love that.

827
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,320
I think, um, did you get particularly bullied in high school as well?

828
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,320
No.

829
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,880
Um, I was bullied in primary school a bit, but like, okay, I went to an all girls school

830
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,320
and people were just mean.

831
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:05,840
And if you didn't fit in, you, you, like, I, I don't know if I, I like, I wasn't uncool

832
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,880
and I'm only using these terms because that's just the high school terminology.

833
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:10,880
Yeah.

834
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:11,880
You get it?

835
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:17,920
Um, and I wasn't uncool, but I, I was like going to these parties, but I never fit in

836
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:18,920
at them.

837
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,160
So I was kind of left out in that realm, if that makes sense.

838
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:29,240
Like I was invited and going, but like I never, I was always judged because there was something

839
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:31,040
that was like a bit different.

840
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,040
I don't know.

841
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,040
It's, it was, it's weird.

842
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,240
It's like things I still need to unpack because high school is just random.

843
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:40,520
I, I, I don't know if this ever happened to you, but I remember like when everyone was

844
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,760
organizing a house party and it was always a big thing.

845
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,800
Like everyone was like, go to this house.

846
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,400
And I always just like, whenever I went to house parties, I thought it would, I don't

847
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,320
know, it was me, but I just felt they were the most boring thing ever.

848
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:53,840
I know, completely.

849
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:54,840
I don't know.

850
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:55,840
I didn't fit.

851
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,040
I didn't fit being a teenager.

852
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,840
I fit more being an adult than I ever did in my teenage years.

853
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,320
For some reason, I think puberty just did me a one-off.

854
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,680
Made me go, fuck it.

855
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,620
You know, but, but I think being an adult, especially when you get rid of that curriculum

856
00:47:12,620 --> 00:47:17,680
of what's cool and you know, who's, you know, who's hot and who's attractive and all that

857
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,720
bullshit that teenagers talk about, it's very easy to be like, just appreciate everyone

858
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:24,720
for individuality.

859
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:25,720
Exactly.

860
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:26,720
Yeah.

861
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,840
And, and it's funny because I'm sure there's people out there who just go, oh, Hallie's

862
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:32,840
really cool.

863
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,040
And you know, and the coolest person ever who have never met you, who have never like,

864
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,720
you know, and, and assume, assume knowledge.

865
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:45,280
Like this is the wonderful world of internet, but it's, it's so surreal because I think

866
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,900
like one friend in particular said to me is like, I've learned more about you through

867
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:55,720
doing your podcast than, you know, ever ask, really asking because I don't feel like people

868
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:58,800
actually ask us who we are as individuals.

869
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,360
Like they don't go, well, who's the real you?

870
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,640
Because you know, from a social media point of view, we, we just want to obsess over,

871
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,200
over the, over the person and the idea of the person.

872
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,920
Are you, do you like being quite transparent?

873
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,520
Or, you know, especially with your socials and what you appreciate.

874
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,520
Definitely.

875
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,680
I like, I want to be as honest and transparent as possible.

876
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,440
The only issue is that like, like sometimes you can just feel like you're putting it out

877
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,680
there and then you, you're, you're not getting any validation back or anything.

878
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,080
So you're just kind of like, uh, like putting your heart on the line and then for what?

879
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Like, but also then, and then I just, I do like to do it because I think it's important

880
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,120
when I feel like I'm in the mental space or the position to do so, to open up dialogue

881
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,920
in whatever way so that other people can feel like they can be open and you know, I think

882
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,640
it's just, it's just good.

883
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,160
But yeah, sometimes it feels a bit vulnerable, I guess.

884
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,160
Yeah.

885
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,520
Cause I, you strike me as a person who wears their heart on their sleeve.

886
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,720
Yeah, you could say that.

887
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,720
Yeah, for sure.

888
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,400
I enjoy, I do enjoy being honest when I'm in the mood.

889
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:09,400
Yes.

890
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:15,760
I mean, like it, I always say it's the thing as well, which is I choose to be honest with,

891
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,400
you know, like you choose to be honest with certain people and you know, and it's not,

892
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,680
I feel like nowadays it's less if I'm in the mood and more of I, if someone's honest with

893
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,240
me, I'll be honest with them.

894
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:27,240
Totally.

895
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:32,080
What's that saying of like, um, uh, I'll give you respect if you give me respect or vice

896
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,880
versa because respect is earned.

897
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,240
And I, it's a very funny thing because I feel like there's, I've become less of a people

898
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:45,520
pleaser now as I've gotten older and I'm like, I think it's also because, you know, like

899
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,080
particularly like I have all the time in the world for you because you are so transparent

900
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,000
and you are so honest.

901
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,440
But that's like, I haven't done anything to warrant you being so honest, but I love that

902
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:56,440
already.

903
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,040
So I'm like happy to give you like tenfold.

904
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,040
Totally.

905
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,640
But it's funny when people don't do that because if they're not honest or they're not like,

906
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:08,560
you know, you want to hold yourself back a little bit and not be as vulnerable.

907
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:14,880
Do you, do you worry as well, you know, particularly now, um, with becoming more and more famous

908
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,600
and, and more and more in the limelight that people are going to take what you say out

909
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,040
of context and try and twist the world.

910
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,200
To be honest, I hadn't thought about this until last night.

911
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,080
Um, Oh, I thought about it a bit, but I really thought about last night cause I watched Selena

912
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,040
Gomez's new documentary.

913
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,040
Have you seen it?

914
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,040
Oh my God.

915
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,640
I was raved about that and I fucking love it.

916
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:35,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

917
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:36,640
Okay.

918
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:37,640
Okay.

919
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:38,640
So good.

920
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,440
Um, so honest about her journey with mental health.

921
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,680
Like I just, I thought it was so, um, honest.

922
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:47,680
Whoa.

923
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,680
Yeah.

924
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,240
Like we were saying and, um, yeah.

925
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:56,960
And then last night I just, I just saw in this documentary and I already had awareness

926
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:03,280
around this and like, but like, like just how much people took things out of context

927
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:10,200
or just made things up, like fully just pulled out of their ass, like not even factual.

928
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,360
And it just sucks because then it's just not the truth of then Selena's reading this already

929
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,800
in a bad mental state.

930
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,160
Anyway, I just, I, it baffles me that humans do that.

931
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,240
But so last night I had the fear.

932
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:23,240
Yeah.

933
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,880
And I was sitting there with my friend Sasha also is in music and I was like, Oh God.

934
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,920
Like this, this sucks.

935
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,160
Like at this level, that would just be intense.

936
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:34,160
Yeah.

937
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,160
Yeah.

938
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:40,280
I think I, you know, and I'll, I'll, I'll try and put you at ease, but like everything,

939
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,920
everything that you do send the podcast is also like, you know, I want it to be open

940
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,600
and honest about you and how you feel comfortable, but because it's sort of one of those things

941
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,520
that I guess, um, I created this for that very reason.

942
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:59,960
And I think it kind of baffled me that we had this so backwards view of how we treated,

943
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:10,840
you know, celebrity or royalty to games and, and jokes and how messed up a massive amount

944
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,560
of pressure is, um, to, to appeal to people.

945
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,240
And I think I like, it took me a while to watch that doc, because it was actually like

946
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,640
really partly quite triggering for me.

947
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:21,640
Yeah.

948
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:22,640
So like I had to pause it.

949
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,000
I think every like 15, 20 minutes to just kind of like recheck my head and go, okay,

950
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,560
well I'm, I'm still here.

951
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,560
So fair.

952
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,560
Yeah.

953
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,560
Yeah.

954
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,720
But I mean, like, you know, it's, it's also like particularly you checking in on yourself

955
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:41,560
on a daily basis because, um, you know, like you, you know, you, you were very transparent

956
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,920
with me with via message to check in of how you're feeling and let me know how you're

957
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:47,920
feeling.

958
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,240
Like do you, when do you know that it's a safe space for you to be honest and open with

959
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:53,240
people?

960
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:56,600
Like, when do you feel like you're in the right zone to be very transparent?

961
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:03,480
To be honest, when I, I think when I know that they're queer, I am some reason, I don't

962
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:04,480
know.

963
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,480
I don't know.

964
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:06,480
I just am like, cool.

965
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:12,040
Like they gonna understand me a bit more automatically, probably a bad assumption, but like, it's

966
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,240
just, it's just how I feel.

967
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:17,000
Cause the queer community is a safe space for queers, obviously.

968
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Yeah.

969
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:26,360
And also like, I think, I don't know, sometimes I feel like I like to assume that people are

970
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,320
good and people will get it.

971
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,960
And that I can be honest with them.

972
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:35,000
And if they don't get it, that can't be my problem.

973
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,000
I don't know.

974
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:42,640
But like, obviously it's a hard thing to tackle, but it's like, like trying to, but then, then

975
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,080
again, sometimes I do that and then I'm left with an open wound and like, you know, and

976
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,800
then I'm like, oh, why was I vulnerable?

977
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,400
But I like to assume the best in people, I guess.

978
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,560
I mean, I always use like social media as well.

979
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:01,760
And I think I always try and like be arms wide open kind of person because it's, you

980
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,400
know, especially, but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is

981
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,920
like, be kind, be considerate.

982
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:14,200
And it's funny because I think like there's, there's often a time where I see people act

983
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,320
like, you know, it goes back to when you're an adult and people start acting like teenagers

984
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,760
and you do start, you know, start mistreating each other.

985
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:22,760
And I'm like, what is the point?

986
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:23,760
Yeah, I know.

987
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,840
Like, you know, we're all, we're all coexisting.

988
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:32,960
And I think the thing that I automatically love about your passion and your, you know,

989
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,200
I guess online presence as well is you seem automatically so genuine.

990
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,760
Oh, I'm glad.

991
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:39,760
Yeah.

992
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,160
And, and, and the transparency and everything, but it's, it's just, you're so excited and

993
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,440
kind, and kind and warm.

994
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:53,600
And I think that comes across more often than, you know, like a lot of people would probably,

995
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,800
you know, just with social media platforms, you just come across as a very genuine person.

996
00:54:58,800 --> 00:54:59,800
Oh, cool.

997
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:00,800
Yeah.

998
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,840
I try and be genuine on there.

999
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:03,840
That's good.

1000
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:04,840
No, that's really good.

1001
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:05,840
Yeah.

1002
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:06,840
I'm actually really glad to hear that.

1003
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,320
I mean, I think it, I was like sitting there the other day going, I can't wait to chat

1004
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:12,320
to you.

1005
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:13,320
Aww.

1006
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:14,320
And talk random shit.

1007
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,320
It's going to be great.

1008
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,320
Yeah, I'm having a great time.

1009
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,320
Yeah.

1010
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,320
I'm glad.

1011
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:25,520
You sort of like feel, especially, you know, when you look at social media and everything,

1012
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,640
and I think, you know, we look at, we look at people all the time on social media and

1013
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,520
they do have that sort of like non-genuine glaze.

1014
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,640
And I've met people in the queer community who are very hostile as well, unfortunately.

1015
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,600
Like not everyone's as forgiving.

1016
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:42,680
And totally.

1017
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:50,520
I think it's, what's that thing of just being like, you know, one of my friends was like,

1018
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,720
you clearly haven't dated enough guys to know.

1019
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:56,800
And I've had those comments thrown at me and stuff like that.

1020
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,080
I'm like, don't think that.

1021
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,480
That's like the biphobia shit.

1022
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:02,480
Yeah.

1023
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,480
Yeah.

1024
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:04,480
No.

1025
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,520
People are like, well, you haven't, like, shut up.

1026
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:08,520
I know, right?

1027
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,520
What's, why are you having an opinion on it anyway?

1028
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:12,560
Yeah, I'm sorry.

1029
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:18,920
But it's also interesting because I'm very enthusiastic and I think my hyper excitability

1030
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,720
is things that people don't know how to deal with.

1031
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,560
And I often find that incredibly frustrating because it's like, well, I haven't done anything

1032
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:32,300
different and it's not like I'm being like super, you know, out of the ordinary.

1033
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:37,160
But I do find that because of the way like social media travels now and, you know, and

1034
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,360
word of mouth travels, I think in particular.

1035
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,120
People just automatically go, that person's weird, so don't associate.

1036
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,440
Have you ever had that, like, particularly now when you get excited about things or have

1037
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,000
you had like people sort of say things to your face that you were kind of like, that's

1038
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,520
uncalled for or kind of unnecessary?

1039
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,800
I get, you know what I get a lot?

1040
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:07,480
Well, this is the first thing that popped into my head, not specifically with queerness,

1041
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:13,280
but so many times after shows people will say like, yeah, from like the look of your

1042
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,280
socials, like, I thought I wouldn't like your music.

1043
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,880
But then no, I do really like it now.

1044
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,240
And I'm like, okay, cool.

1045
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,640
Or like, they'll be like, I thought you were just really fake, but like you're actually

1046
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,600
just like this in real life.

1047
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:27,600
Yeah.

1048
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,840
Which is such a weird thing to get.

1049
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,080
I don't know, perception is so weird.

1050
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,840
People will just perceive you forever.

1051
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:40,040
I love that also, both your impressions of people sound like valley girls, like from

1052
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:41,040
California.

1053
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:42,040
That's so true.

1054
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:49,320
That's so silly as well, because lots of time, like men or like AMAPs are the ones that say

1055
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,320
this to me.

1056
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,560
So I'm like, yeah, don't know why I put that voice on.

1057
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:58,680
I think I think it's like it must be frustrating as well as being, you know, with a femme appearance

1058
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:04,040
and you know, everything, it must be very frustrating because people must just always

1059
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,040
be like how you look and base everything off how you look rather than some of the music,

1060
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:09,040
especially with men.

1061
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:10,360
Do you find that frustrating?

1062
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,440
Oh yeah, so frustrating.

1063
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:18,800
And I've like, obviously had the thoughts of like wearing different things to stop that,

1064
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:19,800
but I don't want to.

1065
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,280
Like, and then I'm like, no, I shouldn't have to do that.

1066
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:29,640
But yeah, like definitely just get sexualized and heckled and people will ask for photos

1067
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,320
with me and then like just touch me a bit too much.

1068
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,800
I don't know, and it just gets a bit like, it's just gross.

1069
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:42,600
And I, yeah, and I've had lots of like, I don't know, just lots of weird instances,

1070
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,560
obviously as every AFAB experiences, like it's just gross.

1071
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:52,080
But I think definitely also the like, oh, you're not actually queer because you look

1072
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,220
so feminine.

1073
00:58:55,220 --> 00:58:58,440
And it's just like so bizarre.

1074
00:58:58,440 --> 00:58:59,440
I don't know.

1075
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,440
How dare you look feminine and you're not.

1076
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,440
I know.

1077
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,160
This isn't right for my queer book.

1078
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:06,160
This doesn't make sense.

1079
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:10,920
I know, they're like, these don't fit into my stereotypes.

1080
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:17,320
I think it's also like the thing as well, you know, because I know I sort of like find

1081
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,160
it really weird, especially like coming out of high school as well when you're in the

1082
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,160
early stages of your twenties and everyone's trying to sexualize you from being a kid to

1083
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,280
being a young adult.

1084
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:28,780
So true, yeah.

1085
00:59:28,780 --> 00:59:35,440
I think it's more prominent then, but particularly like my partner, because of her height, she

1086
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:41,280
actually gets a lot more people commenting that she looks like a kid and she's 27 and

1087
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,160
it drives her up the wall.

1088
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,200
Oh God.

1089
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,120
You have these sort of, and I often have discussions with her about like, you know, the problems

1090
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:55,440
because I have to go to sometimes mechanics and stuff and have to put on that bloke voice

1091
00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:00,720
and you know, like, hey mate, how you going, let's fix the car, let's get it done, let's

1092
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,320
pay the bills and go home.

1093
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:05,320
I hate that.

1094
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:06,320
I hate that.

1095
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:11,160
And I remember like particularly when I was young, I had a lot of female friends growing

1096
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:17,920
up and one of the things that I was always commented on, and I think that's where all

1097
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:25,120
the gay jokes probably stemmed in, but they were just like, oh, why don't you just like

1098
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,640
sleeping with half of them was always the question.

1099
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,160
I'm like, why would I?

1100
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:35,320
That's the generic, like weird thing that I always find is when you have like same sex

1101
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:40,120
or different, you know, opposite sex friends that people just go, oh, that's so weird.

1102
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:41,640
Why would you do that?

1103
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,360
Have you always kind of had a very mixed friend group?

1104
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,280
Oh God, that's, I hate that stuff.

1105
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:56,200
Yeah, like I have on and off, but I've really found safety and security in my AFAB friends.

1106
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,800
But I definitely know I have a mix of all different friends.

1107
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,440
I think they're just my immediate friends at the moment, but I have lots of, you know,

1108
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,520
trans friends and non-binary friends.

1109
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:12,680
And so, you know, it's very mixed and I feel like that's kind of people that would say

1110
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:18,880
things like that are kind of out of my life now, or maybe like not in my immediate bubble

1111
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:23,520
that I'd see all the time, which I'm really grateful for because those conversations are

1112
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:24,520
painful.

1113
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:25,520
Yeah.

1114
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:26,520
Yeah.

1115
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,280
I mean, like you want to avoid them.

1116
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,520
I love that you kind of like shuffled them out of your life now.

1117
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:32,520
Yeah.

1118
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,840
I mean, do they come along to gigs and stuff?

1119
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,960
Do you still encounter these kind of people at gigs?

1120
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:37,960
Yeah, for sure.

1121
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:38,960
For sure.

1122
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,160
I encounter these kind of people, and also my family, as open as they are, don't get

1123
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,040
the ins and outs of it all.

1124
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:52,800
So I still get them being like, well, what about like, and you're just like, okay.

1125
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:59,520
But yeah, definitely, I'm just like, I don't experience it as much anymore, but I know

1126
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:00,520
it too well.

1127
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:01,520
Yeah.

1128
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,960
It's a weird kind of state, isn't it?

1129
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:11,280
And I think automatically I often roll my eyes when people go, oh, but it doesn't fit

1130
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,280
the English language.

1131
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,280
Like I can't say they them.

1132
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,280
Oh, don't.

1133
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,080
It's so, it doesn't even make sense.

1134
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:21,160
But anyway, yeah.

1135
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,160
I felt like I broke you just then.

1136
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,600
Because the amount of people who say that and they're just wrong.

1137
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:28,600
I know.

1138
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,240
Like you're just being so silly.

1139
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,160
But apparently people think it's fine.

1140
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,520
They're like, oh, oh no.

1141
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:38,520
You know what I mean.

1142
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,640
I'm like, yes, I do.

1143
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,640
But say it properly.

1144
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:44,880
Be respectful about it.

1145
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:45,880
Exactly.

1146
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,800
But I mean, it's very interesting because like I've worked, you know, with the whole

1147
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,200
pronoun things and stuff.

1148
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:55,240
Like if people check my Instagram and LinkedIn and stuff like that, go ahead.

1149
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,000
My pronouns are all over that stuff.

1150
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:01,160
But I haven't had that conversation where it's like with my parents of like, how do

1151
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:02,280
I identify?

1152
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:08,920
Because I feel like it was bad enough having the conversation that I was by.

1153
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,280
Not that they weren't sort of like, but it was just kind of like still a conversation.

1154
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,640
I was like, I don't want to have another one.

1155
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:15,640
Totally.

1156
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,720
Like it's the worst stress in the world.

1157
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:22,720
But I encourage you, if you're anyone out there and if you identify differently and

1158
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,320
you want to come out to your parents, do it all as a joint package.

1159
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,080
Just get everything out in one sitting.

1160
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,200
That's actually great advice.

1161
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:33,200
Just hit them all at once.

1162
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,200
Because they can't argue with it.

1163
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,520
They can't be like, oh, you came out as this before and now you're coming out as this.

1164
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,040
They're like, well, I guess they gave me the whole package.

1165
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,040
Yeah, completely.

1166
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:44,040
I'm done.

1167
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,520
No, I think that's my mentality.

1168
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:52,880
But I've also said like, Emily and I have often said that if our kids, you know, if

1169
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,520
we have kids and they come out as queer, we're just going to be over the moon.

1170
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:01,480
But also like, you know, just make sure they feel safe and accepted even.

1171
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:06,560
Because I don't think particularly, especially with like our influence in the next like 50

1172
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:07,800
years, it's going to be fixed.

1173
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,680
I don't think this issue is going to be fixed probably in our lifetime.

1174
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:12,680
It's too deep.

1175
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:13,680
Yeah, it's rudimentary.

1176
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:14,680
Yeah.

1177
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:20,600
But I do think that, you know, like we're making the stepping stones to make it very

1178
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:21,600
clear and concise.

1179
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:22,600
Totally.

1180
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:28,520
And I think, you know, like, particularly, I love, I also love how, how in touch you

1181
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:33,360
are with, you know, the use of checking in on people and, you know, and, and, you know,

1182
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,120
like checking pronouns and everything.

1183
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,960
Because like, there's not much of a difference in age between us.

1184
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:43,200
There's like about seven years, but it's not as ingrained in me as it is in you.

1185
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:44,240
And I love that.

1186
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:45,680
Did that take training?

1187
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:46,680
Yeah.

1188
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:51,000
But it's also just because of the wonderful people I'm surrounded by.

1189
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:59,120
So I think being around transgender people specifically as well, like pronouns are so

1190
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:00,480
important to get right.

1191
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:07,400
And I then, as soon as I kind of learnt about it a lot, I was like, wow, this is awesome.

1192
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:12,560
So good that there's this other, you know, way that we can identify ourselves in so many

1193
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:17,640
different ways and like just opens up a whole new thing of freedom and expression.

1194
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:24,160
But yeah, I just think, yeah, we just all like make sure that we're always on it.

1195
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,520
And we also like very much correct each other a lot and like pull each other up on it a

1196
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:29,520
lot.

1197
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:33,680
So I think it is just the environment I'm in that I'm really lucky to be in where like,

1198
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:34,680
we're like, ah, wrong.

1199
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:35,680
And then you're like, oh, cool.

1200
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:36,680
Yeah.

1201
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:37,680
Yeah.

1202
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:38,680
I love that.

1203
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:39,680
It's good.

1204
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:40,680
Yeah.

1205
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:41,680
Yeah.

1206
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:42,680
It's important.

1207
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,680
I'm going to constantly pick your brains about stuff like this.

1208
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,000
Constantly, constantly, I've got to pick your brains.

1209
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,640
I hope you know this now.

1210
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,720
Go for it.

1211
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:53,720
Go for it.

1212
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:58,040
But no, I think, I think that's one of the things that I get.

1213
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:03,720
You just astound me with how on top of you on top of it you are.

1214
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:10,400
Because I think it's such a yeah, with people coming into it, like in the generation, even

1215
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:15,360
like the difference between age of you and my cousin's kid are like, you know, even they're

1216
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,560
like super aware of and I'm like, how?

1217
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:20,560
Yeah.

1218
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:25,320
You know, like 30 years of jadedness has gotten to me.

1219
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:30,640
And I do think even in the seven year difference we have, like, it would have been harder in

1220
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,760
those seven years than it was for me.

1221
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:38,280
Like just generally, like, yeah, it's changed quite quickly, quite, quite rapidly.

1222
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:45,080
And I think maybe there is more freedom for me and my, I don't know, people my age are

1223
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:49,440
like to be open with that, even though the gap's not that big.

1224
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:50,440
Yeah.

1225
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:51,440
Yeah.

1226
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:52,440
It's very minor.

1227
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:56,760
It goes to microaggressions back in, you know, and like what kind of microaggressions each

1228
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:02,720
generation and each year has dealt with at certain turning points in our lives.

1229
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,720
And then how does that like affect us?

1230
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:11,080
Yeah, it's like my teenage years would have been different to yours and how we sort of

1231
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:15,160
like identified and discovered ourselves would have been very different points.

1232
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:19,480
But you know, like all the friends that I came, you know, that I was close to were stuff

1233
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:20,480
are all queer.

1234
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:26,280
So it's like one of those things that I think I, if I hadn't realised I was queer at 26,

1235
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,680
I would have worked it out by now as well.

1236
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:29,680
Yeah, totally.

1237
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:35,640
It's very, it's very obvious for all the things that I follow.

1238
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:40,960
Before we wrap up though, I'm going to ask you about some Taylor Swift stuff.

1239
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:41,960
Oh my god.

1240
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:42,960
Hit me.

1241
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:44,960
Let's do it.

1242
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,200
So favourite album?

1243
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:48,800
Speak Now, Deluxe Edition.

1244
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,120
Ooh, Deluxe Edition.

1245
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:52,120
Favourite song?

1246
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:53,120
No!

1247
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:54,120
Favourite song?

1248
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,120
Just one?

1249
01:07:55,120 --> 01:08:01,080
Yeah, one song, okay, let's stick with that album.

1250
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:02,080
Favourite song of that album.

1251
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:03,080
Of Speak Now?

1252
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,080
Yeah.

1253
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,080
Okay, The Story of Us.

1254
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:06,080
I've seen a live performance.

1255
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:07,080
Which one?

1256
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,080
Well, any of them, like pre pandemic.

1257
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:10,080
Oh my god, yes.

1258
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:11,080
Oh, yes.

1259
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,080
Are you going to go to the Eras tour?

1260
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,080
Surely, yes I am.

1261
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:21,800
I've already been to two Taylor gigs and I cried a lot.

1262
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,200
Continue your questions, it's fine.

1263
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,720
I love this, this is like a speed fire round.

1264
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,120
Least favourite song on that album?

1265
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:36,280
I'm going to have to say, this isn't an easy decision, please don't take this too seriously,

1266
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:37,280
but I am going to say Innocent.

1267
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:38,280
Okay.

1268
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:39,280
Do you know that one?

1269
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:40,280
I do, yes.

1270
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:41,280
Yeah.

1271
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:46,120
Also, I will say your favourite album is Em's favourite album.

1272
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,120
Oh, okay.

1273
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,120
We'd probably get along.

1274
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:50,720
Yeah, you two would get along.

1275
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:54,200
I'm already vibing it, I'm just like, oh my god.

1276
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,680
There's currently like Taylor Swift merch over in the corner of the house.

1277
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,680
Oh, I love it.

1278
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:04,600
Not many people have Speak Now as their favourite album, so this is big that we have the same

1279
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,040
one, the same fave.

1280
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:12,080
My first ever album will also be my favourite, which is Red.

1281
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:16,680
My favourite song probably, it's actually in the re-release, which is the 10 minute

1282
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:17,680
version of All Too Well.

1283
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:18,680
Oh, B.

1284
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:19,680
It's so good.

1285
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:21,320
It's fucked up.

1286
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:26,560
And probably my least favourite song on that album, probably Trouble.

1287
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:27,560
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1288
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:28,560
I knew you were Trouble.

1289
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:29,760
Yeah, I knew you were Trouble, yeah.

1290
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,240
I'm really not as fan of how that's structured.

1291
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:35,960
I don't know why.

1292
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:36,960
So fair.

1293
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:42,280
I've listened to it a fair amount, but I think she did something with the re-release of remixing

1294
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:46,520
it, and I just preferred the original mix of the song.

1295
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:47,520
It's very funny.

1296
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,000
Actually, that's a point.

1297
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:54,320
Are you ever going to, in 15, 20 years time, remix some of your old songs?

1298
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,240
Do you think you'll ever do that, or do you think you'll kind of just leave B?

1299
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,440
I'm never going to say never, but I don't know.

1300
01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:01,440
I don't know, probably.

1301
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:02,440
It'll cross your mind.

1302
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:03,440
Oh, yeah.

1303
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:04,440
Like, surely.

1304
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:07,240
Surely there'll be some remix type situation going on.

1305
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:12,080
But hopefully I don't end up in a situation like Taylor where I have no choice but to

1306
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:13,080
remix them.

1307
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:14,080
Oh, yeah.

1308
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:15,080
I don't think you'll ever.

1309
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,320
I think the music industry is going to change forever due to that situation because that

1310
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:20,320
was appalling.

1311
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:21,320
Totally.

1312
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:25,040
And she deserved way better.

1313
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,440
And it's so funny as well because I've listened to Midnights.

1314
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:36,160
I enjoy Midnights as an album, but it's so funny that it's sort of a big fandom and

1315
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:43,000
the culture of fandom should never really berate anyone on how they'd be creative because

1316
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:47,200
they're all like, we want an album-like reputation, and then she releases it, and then they're

1317
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,720
suddenly like, oh, okay, this isn't what we expected.

1318
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,000
And some of the fandom is really divided.

1319
01:10:54,000 --> 01:11:00,800
I know, the culture of fandom, especially for Taylor's fans, is hectic.

1320
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,760
One of my friends said the other day, I'm not really the biggest fan of Taylor Swift,

1321
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:11,400
but I am a fan of Taylor's fans because they're just like their whole new own world and it's

1322
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:12,400
crazy.

1323
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:13,680
Oh my god, they're all savage.

1324
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:14,680
They're all so savage.

1325
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:15,680
They're so savage.

1326
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,520
And you've obviously heard about Gaylo.

1327
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:19,520
Yes.

1328
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:20,520
Yeah, cool.

1329
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:21,520
Cool, cool, cool, cool.

1330
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:22,520
I don't.

1331
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,040
It's all black hole, that place.

1332
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,120
Everything's a black hole.

1333
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,840
I just, it sounds really bleak, but it is.

1334
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,280
Actually here's my final question for you, though, Halle.

1335
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:35,280
Yes.

1336
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,440
What's your go-to chill session after a big day?

1337
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:42,600
Are you normally a whine and chill and listen to music, or what's your go-to?

1338
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,640
No, it's bong.

1339
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,680
It's bong life.

1340
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:51,080
I have a whinedown bong, just to be honest with you.

1341
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:52,080
I love that.

1342
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,880
Yeah, yeah, but I also just shower.

1343
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,880
Oh, a shower.

1344
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,960
Crazy I know, but I shower.

1345
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,200
And that always makes me feel relaxed.

1346
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:04,200
How long is said shower?

1347
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,720
Like a decent shower, or if I'm feeling really dramatic, I have a bath.

1348
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:08,720
There you go.

1349
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:09,720
Yeah.

1350
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:10,720
You've heard it here first, folks.

1351
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,640
Do you enjoy a bath?

1352
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:15,640
I love a bath.

1353
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:16,640
Baths are the bee's knees.

1354
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:17,640
Yeah, completely.

1355
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:24,440
And I don't have one here in this house, so I'm very disappointed.

1356
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:28,360
There is only a shower, so I can only enjoy a shower.

1357
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:29,360
I know.

1358
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:30,360
Damn.

1359
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:34,240
It's going to make when you have a bath again so special.

1360
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,960
Oh yeah, I'm going to utilize it all the time.

1361
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:37,960
That is the plan.

1362
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:38,960
Yeah, exactly.

1363
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:40,960
But thank you so much for joining me.

1364
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:42,520
I've actually loved chatting to you.

1365
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,120
It's been an absolute blast.

1366
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:45,120
Same.

1367
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:46,120
Thank you for having me.

1368
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:47,120
This has been lovely.

1369
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:48,120
Yeah.

1370
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,920
And Halle, where can people stalk you, obviously, and where can they find you?

1371
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,480
Where's the easiest place to stalk your friends?

1372
01:12:55,480 --> 01:13:01,720
Sorry, I just thought they'd like to stalk me and giving out my address.

1373
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,720
Please and no.

1374
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:04,720
No.

1375
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:13,640
You can find me on Instagram, Halle with four E's, and Spotify.

1376
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,240
I'm in all the places, Facebook, Twitter.

1377
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,960
I don't really use Twitter though, don't go there.

1378
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:20,960
TikTok.

1379
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,160
I try and be funny on TikTok.

1380
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:24,920
And yeah, I don't know.

1381
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,600
And then Spotify and Apple and things like that.

1382
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:31,320
Amazon, whatever you use, Tidal.

1383
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:32,320
Find it.

1384
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,320
Go and type Halle's name into things.

1385
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:35,320
You'll find her.

1386
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:36,320
YouTube!

1387
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:37,320
YouTube!

1388
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,120
Go and find Halle's first ever video.

1389
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,120
Go and stalk the deep web.

1390
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,840
Oh God, don't do that.

1391
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:46,840
Yeah, I know.

1392
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,120
We've opened a can of worms here today.

1393
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,720
But no, thank you so much for joining me.

1394
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,840
And if you want to go and check out more episodes of Things We Do, you can check them out on

1395
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:55,840
Apple and Spotify.

1396
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,160
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later.

1397
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:14,560
Bye!