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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend Audrey Blyde.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Lovely to be here.

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Lovely to have you here.

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Now Audrey, first question, first and foremost question that everyone needs to know, first

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and primary question, who are you and what do you do?

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Wow.

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Who am I?

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Yeah, I guess, you know, I probably, when I introduce myself to people, I say that I'm

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an actor.

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But honestly, I'm more of a bartender these days.

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I think, yeah, the line that I tell people when people are like, oh, so what do you do?

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I say, oh, I'm an actor depending on the week, because I feel like that removes a lot of

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the, you know, when you're like, oh, I'm an actor and people are like, oh, what does that

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mean?

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And I recently, I went on a date with someone in July who was a tradie and he grew up in

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Western Sydney and didn't, he just had never really considered that actors were anything

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other than like famous people.

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I thought you were about to just say people.

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I was like really concerned.

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No, like he, I think he just thought that all actors were famous people and he didn't

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know the concept of a jobbing actor and stuff.

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And so sometimes when you meet people and they're trying to figure you out, like what

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do you mean?

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I haven't heard of you and you're an actor.

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So that's the line that I use really is I'm an actor depending on the week.

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But yeah, I'm an actor.

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I love that.

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I love that it's an actor depending on the week.

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And I love that that is, you know, only famous people can be actors.

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It's not true, but so often, you know, I think in Australia in general, there's a lot of

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misconception about the arts and what an artist is.

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And especially, you know, older generations and like my parents' generations still don't

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really understand what I do.

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What you do basically, like I think if you work as a freelancer or you work as like a

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non-contract based, which is basically what an actor is really, it's kind of like unless

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you get a long running form, you're really kind of like only attached to a project for

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so long.

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And that I think most parents think of that is not like financially.

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Yeah, it's funny.

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It's funny.

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Like also though, I think I think it's particularly our generation.

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Like it's it's swings and roundabouts nowadays.

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And you know, like I don't know when you were born, but I was born in 92.

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It's like, you know, young baby that then and then like, I think like the nineties was

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the era where people were like someone like full time work was, you know, stable jobs.

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And then suddenly 2000s happened.

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Everyone was like, nah, go, go like, there's full of synchronisation.

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Yeah, there's this big kind of societal push to, you know, pursue whatever makes you happy

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and pursue your own individualism and your own self of expression above anything else.

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So we've had a real culture shift from even like one generation back.

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So there's still quite a miscommunication, I think, depending on who you're speaking

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to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, like, did you, when you were little though, was this always kind of like, were

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you always driven to be an actor?

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Was that always a termination?

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No, no, it wasn't.

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I didn't really know what I wanted to do at all.

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Honestly, growing up, I really enjoyed school and I, yeah, I don't, I think for one, for

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a while I used to say I wanted to be a marine biologist, but I don't think that was actually

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ever true.

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I think I just liked the idea of swimming with dolphins or something.

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And but yeah, and then I was very obsessed with community theatre and drama growing up

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and obsessed.

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Yeah.

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I was in terrible, terrible productions, anything that I could do at school or outside of school,

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I was always doing that.

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And I was always aware that I was good at it.

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I was good.

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I had a, I had good natural ability.

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I had, you know, from teachers or other class members, I always got good feedback and I

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could sense that there was something that I possessed within me.

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But I was, you know, I was never particularly confident in that.

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I thought it probably was just a big fish in a small pond thing.

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And so kind of when I graduated, I really excelled at drama in high school, not academically

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really.

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I think I only got band five.

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Oh, can I say that's pretty good though.

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But yeah.

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And so it was in my gap year when I kind of decided I would, yeah, I did a six month acting

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course at the Actors Centre.

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Oh, okay.

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And that was kind of a different environment.

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Yeah.

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More than just, you know, associated with, yeah, like a school attachment thing, you

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know, it was suddenly you're getting into people who, who took it more seriously.

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Yeah, took it more seriously.

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And so I think I did that and I was like, okay, no, I'm good here too.

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I think I'm going to audition for drama schools.

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And when you hear about how competitive that is, I think when I did get into WAP, I was

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like, I'm not a WAP-er.

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So I went to WAP-er from 2015 to 2017.

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When I kind of got in, I was like, okay, this is some sort of confirmation that I'm not,

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like I am, I do possess a natural ability and yeah.

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I guess.

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And then that's, I kind of, when I got to go to uni and make art every day, that's when

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I really loved, I was like, yeah, I want to do this so far.

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And also there was nothing else I wanted to do as well.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's, that's like, that's great, but always have a lot of like that you're

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like, there's nothing else for me in life.

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Just this, but I mean, like, I feel like, you know, especially with the competitiveness

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of WAP-er and you know, and I've, I've met a lot of people who come out of WAP-er and

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I remember like, I used to work at the Seymour centre.

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So you'd see a lot of the WAP-er grads and, and you know, like stuff like that.

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And it was always kind of interesting watching people showcase.

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It was like the most awkward or nerve wracking thing you'd watch.

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Because some of the scenes were either great or they were just terrible.

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It was so hit and miss.

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It's so tough because you know, we're not, you know, like we're create, you know, like

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I'm a creative person, but not a business minded person.

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And so it was really, it was really tough, you know, selecting scenes, selecting the

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person to do the scene with.

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And you know, you're having various different input from teachers or whoever about what

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roles you suit and where we should pitch you and how we should kind of direct.

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So it was quite, yeah, I wasn't good at that kind of business minded, I am a product stuff.

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And that was, it was quite a difficult shift in from suddenly for the first time in third

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year.

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That's what we were now thinking about.

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And it was quite, yeah, it was, it was, yeah, very nerve wracking.

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I think.

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Do you feel like now, especially, you know, having time away from it as well and away

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from education that you feel like it's sort of taught you a lot, but also made you more

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grounded in, in sort of like how you see yourself as an outside product, as you say.

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I guess I'm still not very good at it at all.

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And in fact, I've had a lot of conflict with my agent.

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Well, conflict is probably a strong word.

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Yeah.

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I've had a lot of confusion and disagreement with my acting agents over the years about

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roles that they put me up for and things that I suit.

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Especially my first year out, I was getting a lot of auditions for kind of all American

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teenager stuff and, and commercials where they would end up hiring models.

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And I think my agents had this, had this kind of view of what I suited, but really I had

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more.

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And it took this time, took time to learn, but I think I've always had more of a mature

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disposition and I was never going to play, you know, all American teenager kind of roles.

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And yeah, I'm still trying to figure out my niche in the industry really, because yeah,

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I don't know.

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I mean, like, I don't think, I think it's kind of like a disposition as well.

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And I, and I know, you know, probably from a female acting kind of point of view as well,

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because there is a little bit of a difference between your male counterparts who just can

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kind of, I guess, be, you know, less so these days.

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I think back, back in the day though, if you were, you know, I remember like one of my

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friends who I knew when he was in his fifties was in Home and Away.

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And back then he was like super like ripped and everything.

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And then like that didn't obviously stay in his fifties.

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He wasn't quite as fit as he used to be, but he did say that it was very interesting because

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that was the training ground for him.

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It was so fast paced, but he also said that it was kind of not the best environment in

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some ways because like, because you didn't get much rehearsal time and because it was

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always, but also they did, he did feel like he was miscast and stuff.

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And you know, he knew more about who he wanted to play than probably, you know, the producers

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or the, you know, like the casting agents and stuff.

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And I feel it's very interesting now, like even now where I see, you know, that actors

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take form that I don't think suits like, or I, you know, very limited to, and like I just

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watch Keely Halls, who is a great British actress and she's amazing.

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And I watched her in the Midwitch Cuckoos.

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And it's like one of those things that I, when I see people who I think are good roles

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and you know, she's, I think she's now in her fifties versus like when I saw her in

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other shows when she was younger and you know, younger and stuff, and she's played a various

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amount of career like Cate Blanchett and stuff.

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I think when you have that sort of, don't give a fuck, like just going to do anything,

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it's kind of a more of a, you know, less pigeonholed.

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And I feel like, you know, agents want to sell, they don't, you know, it's a lot of

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like, I can see where the disagreements come from because like they want to sell the product

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and maybe, you know, they see it as a limited, like you're like cheese on a shelf.

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Who's going to eat the cheese?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Especially in the early days of your career, it's like beggars can't be choosers.

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Yeah.

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Whatever you get, this kind of like is kind of what you do.

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And maybe, and I didn't always have that with roles necessarily, but even auditions, you

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know, something comes through and I kind of read it and I was like, I just, I just don't

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think this is for me, but nevertheless you do it.

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And unfortunately what happened for me was in my first year out, I kind of got into this

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cycle of doing these, a lot of auditions that I ultimately think I didn't suit or wasn't

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playing to my strengths, I suppose, or, and, um, wasn't getting callbacks and wasn't getting

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jobs.

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And instead of kind of at the time having the thought of like, maybe, maybe these is,

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it's just setting me up for failure.

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I just, I focused on what I could control, which was my own performance.

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And I was like, I must be a bad actor.

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I must be bad at auditioning.

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And it took a lot of time and negotiation, I think, to kind of be like, yeah, that's

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not quite right.

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I think we should try and maybe I'm, I'm, I'm just being put up for roles that aren't

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suitable for me.

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And I, there's, there are a range of roles that I can play.

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Let's see what's become more available.

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And as I've gotten older, I think that has become much more clear because I think I'm

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growing into the age of roles that I've always suited, if that makes sense.

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I mean, it does.

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And I think, um, you do grow as you, I like that you sort of grow into your roles.

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Um, I definitely think that particularly like when I wanted to be an actor and I looked

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particularly young until I was probably about 28.

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And then suddenly it was just like, I aged, but before then I always had like a really

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young disposition.

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And I think I found that frustrating, um, because I was like, I want to play more mature

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roles.

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I want to get back into acting.

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And I think I've always been more interested in like in performance in mature roles and

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like driven sort of like to that older kind of like distinguished characters.

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Um, then, you know, you're young, like hip, cool.

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I could never play.

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Um, but I do think that it's very interesting because, you know, like I do consider, do

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you think that people have always thought you were older because of the way you've presented

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then you actually are?

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Yeah, that's.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think it's funny when over the course of my life, yeah, when I tell people how old

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I am, they're like, Oh, really?

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I thought you were older.

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That's usually, but that's happening less and less.

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I mean, I actually get older.

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I mean, like it's, you know, it's in societal, it's very impolite to ask people how old I

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am.

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Um, but do you like, I find that like, I think it was the moment I turned 30 and you know,

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like anyone who knows me, I turned 30 already.

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But it's, it's one of those things that I, I feel like I looked at photos of myself,

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headshots even like three, four years ago and I look so much younger.

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I'm like, what happened?

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Where did all these age wrinkles come from?

229
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,120
Do you, do you, do you like aging though?

230
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,720
Are you embracing every moment of it?

231
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:37,720
I do.

232
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,080
Like I do like aging.

233
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,800
I think I've, I've always, you know, I would rather sacrifice youth and beauty for, um,

234
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,400
experience, wisdom and experience.

235
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:55,440
Um, there are, you know, I really feel like, um, COVID kind of curtailed the last of my

236
00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,440
kind of, I mean, I'm 27 now, which is really not that old, but I feel like COVID curtailed

237
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,520
the kind of last of my kind of young years where you can kind of get away with, you know,

238
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,720
like going out late and I mean, I can still do this stuff.

239
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,560
It's all a construct, but you know, like, you know, like I do, I think COVID did make

240
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,840
me feel older and more responsible and a lot more world weary.

241
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,320
Um, but I do like getting older.

242
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,480
I, you know, I love experiencing and new things and there's more I want to do.

243
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:36,600
And, um, yeah, I think as well being in a creative, um, part on a creative path, it

244
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,520
means that you've not kind of, you don't subscribe to this kind of capitalist lie of how your

245
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:42,720
life has to go, right?

246
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,920
Like you graduate school, you go to uni, graduate, you buy the car, then you save for a house

247
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:49,920
deposit.

248
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,040
You get a partner, you get married, you do all these things.

249
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,440
Whereas I think, you know, I've done so many different weird jobs and, um, you know, I've

250
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:04,120
accepted that, um, unless a miraculous job comes up that changes my life overnight, it's,

251
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,320
my career is going to be a slow build.

252
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:13,760
And, um, you know, and I don't know, I don't really feel the weird constraints of this

253
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,160
capitalist path of you need to do X, Y and Z by this age.

254
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:23,520
And I think that being in a creative lifestyle where you're really swimming upstream, um,

255
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,280
which is really hard, but in one sense it's, it's a really liberated me.

256
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,280
Yeah.

257
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,080
I, I agree with that.

258
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,600
I think like, you know, COVID's been, I say often the best thing that's happened to me

259
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,200
because I think it made me slow down.

260
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,200
And it was like the best thing.

261
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,800
Cause then I kind of realized what I wanted.

262
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,200
And I was like, cause I don't conform to capitalist society at all.

263
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:49,240
I'm just like, financially I'm like, it supports a lot of things that I do, but in terms of

264
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,760
long run, I'm not here for monetary gain.

265
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,480
I'm not really here for like, you know, woo, I've got heaps of money.

266
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,000
I don't really care about money.

267
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,980
What I do care about is experience and you know, I guess, you know, expanding my knowledge

268
00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:04,240
and expanding my expertise.

269
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,280
And I definitely think that whether it's been like short films or, you know, projects that

270
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,760
my friends have done, whether I think that, you know, like it doesn't matter what I think

271
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,200
of the quality, but it experiencing everything with every different person has shaped me

272
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,280
more in the last two years than I think.

273
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,280
Um, but I also would have said about my younger self that it was very blinkered vision.

274
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,400
I kind of used to, you know, I went through that like early twenties where I was like,

275
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:34,040
I know everything and I know best and you clearly don't, you know jack shit about anything.

276
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,600
And I think that kind of like makes you, you know, especially because I feel like when,

277
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,320
you know, we're young, we kind of hope that everyone thinks we're amazing.

278
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,600
And I still meet people like this who have got that young attitude where like I'm the

279
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,000
best thing that, you know, is sliced bread.

280
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,800
And it's never true because I feel like the industry, especially that, you know, like

281
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,320
you talk about having part-time jobs and, you know, and lots of different work.

282
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:05,280
The days that I used to, you know, work on a casual basis, I loved because I, you know,

283
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,800
got to do so many weird stuff.

284
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,840
And then, you know, the moment I took full-time work, I found the time I found, I made sure

285
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:18,160
I found the time to do other things outside of work because it's very funny when I meet

286
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,460
a lot of friends and you know, who have like spent their entire twenties just working full-time

287
00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:26,760
and never doing anything outside of their work life and just going, this is my job.

288
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,680
And then I go home and I'm like, how do you do that?

289
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,600
Like there are so many things I want to do, whether it's like write a story, write, you

290
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,320
know, you know, jot an idea down, watch it, you know, go to the cinema and watch a movie

291
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,360
that I've been inspired by and you know, all these things.

292
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,000
And people just go, no, I liked that movie or I didn't like that.

293
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,000
It was like, how?

294
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,640
Yeah, I don't think like that.

295
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,520
Are you the same where you kind of like, you know, do lots of little things outside of

296
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,520
your mundane-ness?

297
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,760
Yeah, I, yeah, I, I call it like the itch like this.

298
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,360
If I, yeah, like I get this creative itch.

299
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,320
If I haven't done anything in a while, I just, I just, I'm so unsettled.

300
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,080
I need to try and do things.

301
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:17,160
I started doing this weird, um, these weird lists in 2019 where in 2019, it was a very

302
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,560
difficult year for me in lots of ways.

303
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:26,560
I kind of, um, it re yeah, a lot of, um, I came to the understanding that I was carrying

304
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,560
a lot of grief from my own failed expectations of what I thought life would be like for me.

305
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,580
Um, and for various, different things from relationship breakdown to not, not getting

306
00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:42,000
certain roles that I had been really hoping that I would get and just kind of calcifying

307
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,800
that, oh, this is a jobbing actor where the hustle doesn't end and it's, you know, and,

308
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:55,440
and just feeling disempowered and, you know, kind of stuck in Sydney or whatever.

309
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,960
I started doing these lists of, of it started over summer.

310
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:05,640
It was things that I would do over summer and it was anything from making a Christmas

311
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:11,520
wreath to going to that, um, museum that I had never been to within Sydney and all of

312
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,520
these different tasks.

313
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:20,080
And I do it every, every summer and it's just a way of, of, for me to kind of really intentionally

314
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:25,040
enjoy life where I am in Sydney right now.

315
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,240
And, and, um, it's really good for like when friends are like, what do you want to do?

316
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,960
I'm like, okay, let's look at my list and we can, it's been cool.

317
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,560
I've, you know, I'm in Sydney now I'm in Sydney for whatever reason.

318
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:42,040
And, um, and you know, when you feel disempowered to kind of make steps in your life that you

319
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:48,080
really want, it's just a really nice way to kind of step outside of the daily grind and

320
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:55,000
just go and go to that beach that you've never been to and see that new site or, um, do something

321
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,000
weird.

322
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,320
Like I went adult roller skating.

323
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,640
Oh, that's sick.

324
00:19:58,640 --> 00:19:59,640
I know.

325
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,760
And like I've never done that, but I was like, why, why the hell not?

326
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,040
Like let's do something different today.

327
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,440
And then, you know, it's, you know, it's just a nice way to try and keep myself excited

328
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,720
and have things to look forward to.

329
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,720
Yeah.

330
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,480
Um, that I can control, I think.

331
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,800
I find that very interesting as well, because you don't, I'm very similar, not, not personally

332
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,360
about the lists, but I have like, cause I love that list idea though.

333
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,800
I will steal that.

334
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:33,760
Um, but I do like have that idea that, you know, you go, you have things that you want

335
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,560
to do or want to try.

336
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,360
And I think one of the things that are particularly like, you know, for the last few years, um,

337
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:46,200
particularly I used to kind of like, you know, value everything on my relationships and a

338
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,120
lot of like, you know, caring for people.

339
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,400
And I had this realization yesterday as well.

340
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:56,000
I was watching the Selena Gomez documentary on Apple, um, Apple Plus, and I had this realization

341
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,440
which I don't think I'd had, I had had in Klings old, um, for a long time, especially

342
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:08,040
with creativity and stuff, but I didn't realize until more recently that I think growing up,

343
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,320
especially in high school, because I didn't know that many creative people, I thought

344
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,240
having projects and having something creative meant people liked you and had this real sense

345
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,160
to pull towards you.

346
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,700
But I didn't do as much for myself to kind of like benefit.

347
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:27,200
And I, and it's funny, like being an adult now and sort of realizing that like, you know,

348
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,840
there's a little bit of psychological elements to that.

349
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,200
Um, but now I'm like, oh, that's right.

350
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,280
You know, I don't have to, you know, no one, no one's disappointed or something.

351
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,920
Like, I mean, you know, people are disappointed if something doesn't happen, but if I want

352
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,280
to go and do something, I can just also go and do it and, you know, enjoy that experience.

353
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,400
And I think very much before it was like, no, everyone has to join me so that I can

354
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,880
make an experience for people.

355
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:58,280
And therefore they, you know, like that level of satisfaction and in that kind of way, but

356
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,320
it's very kind of like, it was just a thing that I thought of last night.

357
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:09,280
I was like, this is very like odd, but it's so true because, you know, it's, it's a very

358
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,280
kind of like weird, vulnerable state to be in, especially as a child, you think why,

359
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,840
what attracts us to arts and what attracts us to doing things and having experiences

360
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,600
and it's mostly people and sharing experiences.

361
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,280
Like how often do you go and do something alone?

362
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,040
Um, still quite often.

363
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,600
I think I'm good at being alone.

364
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,480
I love going to the theater alone.

365
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,360
I love going to the cinema alone.

366
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:35,360
Love that.

367
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,480
You know, it's that classic Julia Cameron, the artist's way, artist states, you know,

368
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,280
it's it's um, being comfortable with your own thoughts and feeling.

369
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,280
Yeah.

370
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,280
And often I'll go with people, but sometimes if you can't find anyone to go with, I'm like,

371
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,280
go by myself.

372
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,280
I love that though.

373
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,280
Yeah.

374
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,520
And, um, and then sometimes it just gives you space to really think about let letting

375
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,280
art affect you without any kind of lens.

376
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:07,040
Sometimes it's so, you know, sometimes my best friend, um, is, and it's kind of my partner

377
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,800
in crime and she's some, we have very similar ways of how we kind of digest art.

378
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,800
And sometimes I'm just like, Oh, I wish she was here so we could discuss this.

379
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:16,800
Yeah.

380
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:24,280
Um, but, um, yeah, sometimes it's so nice to just without any kind of expectation or

381
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,000
needing to discuss it, you just let art affect you.

382
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Yeah.

383
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:35,040
Um, and so that's, I, yeah, I do like going to art galleries and things alone and, um,

384
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,240
it's very, I'm sitting with it.

385
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,240
Yeah.

386
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,240
Yeah.

387
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,240
It's very, it's very interesting.

388
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,800
Are you one of those people who like gets very emotionally affected by it?

389
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,800
Oh yeah.

390
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,800
Oh yeah.

391
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:43,800
Um, absolutely.

392
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:49,160
Cause like, yeah, for me, that is, that is really good art is stuff that emotionally

393
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,320
affects me.

394
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:56,960
Whether it's, it, it moves you, um, you know, to tears or makes you laugh or makes you think

395
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,960
or whatever.

396
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,120
It's like, there is, there is an impact that, and for me, I'm a very feelings person.

397
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:08,880
Um, so for me, that's an, and good art is something that you engage with and it shifts

398
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,880
you.

399
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:10,880
Yeah.

400
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,240
Um, yeah, that's my favorite kind of, you know, art that I, or things that I see, which

401
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,280
I just don't, I think, Oh, that's not aesthetically pleasing, but I don't feel anything is not

402
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,160
going to be as impactful to me as something that really made me feel a visceral response.

403
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,160
Yeah.

404
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,400
I'm, I think that's like, you know, if you go into the cinema and watching, watching

405
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,520
a film that's, you know, like very interesting, but not feeling anything, then I'm worried.

406
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:38,520
Yeah, totally.

407
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,880
And some things can be, you know, intellectually fascinating, but yeah, if it doesn't affect

408
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,680
you, it's not as powerful in my opinion.

409
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,520
I think, I think it's very interesting that you say that as well, because I feel like

410
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,960
some of the bit, you know, like I'm, I'm the worst when it comes to like, um, cause I often

411
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,680
cry during films or stuff like that.

412
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,440
I'm, I'm, I get emotionally attached to everything.

413
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,160
Um, but yeah, like I'm the same.

414
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,360
I used to love going to the art gallery alone, especially like probably more pre pandemic.

415
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,280
I think that pandemic kind of made me stay at home a lot, but pre pandemic, I would go

416
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,480
to the art gallery at least like once a month.

417
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,480
Um, I would go to the cinema every two weeks.

418
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,560
I would go and see a movie and I would often go to the theater when I could, like, I just

419
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,920
loved all that stuff.

420
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,120
I thought it really kind of opened me up.

421
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:26,320
Same with like books and stuff.

422
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,040
I think, um, and you know, and music, I think a lot of people have just kind of like, you

423
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,320
know, it's, it's very interesting when I always hear people just go, Oh, that was a good film.

424
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,320
And I'm like, but what did you like?

425
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,800
Like, tell me, tell me everything.

426
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,640
I love discussing films and ideas and it's, they're the best kind of films is when you

427
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,640
go, Oh my gosh.

428
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,200
I'm like, what about that element and what about this?

429
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:54,880
And discussing, I do a lot of, um, a lot of work that I have found myself doing is, is

430
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:01,780
play developments and, um, yeah, that's a, it's just a line of work that I've fallen

431
00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:02,780
into a lot.

432
00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:08,920
I think I might, I think I must have a, a dramaturgical brain that I think, I think

433
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,720
people say, and then they think, Oh, Audrey might be good for this project.

434
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,280
So I've done a lot of play developments and, um, it's my favorite thing, you know, talking

435
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,400
about a story and structure and how it affects all the characters and the whole arc and what

436
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,560
does it say to the audience?

437
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,640
What does it say about life and really discussing with other creatives and the writer and if

438
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,880
there's a director in the room as well, that's just my favorite thing is discussing ideas

439
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,360
and, um, it's yeah, it's so exciting.

440
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:37,360
That's awesome.

441
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:38,360
I love that.

442
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,360
Like, how did that fall into your lap?

443
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:40,360
Good question.

444
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:47,800
I, um, the first one I ever did was, um, I just volunteered to be a reader at a, um,

445
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:55,560
it was at a part of a, um, play reading festival, um, as part of Mardi Gras a few years ago.

446
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:02,320
And I volunteered to be a, so they were all celebrating new works by, um, LGBTQI identifying

447
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,320
writers.

448
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,080
And I decided to be a volunteer actor in it.

449
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,920
And, um, I, yeah, it was part of a couple of different works, but there was one work

450
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:18,720
in particular, um, about, well, the play's shifted a lot about what it's about over the,

451
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,000
I've worked on it with this, this one playwright for like three years now.

452
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Wow.

453
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,600
We have, we have multiple different stages of development.

454
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,040
He's really come back to it.

455
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Um, and, um, yeah, so I, we did this show and, and afterwards, after we kind of did

456
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,880
this one reading, he invited everyone else to, to, everyone that was involved in the

457
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,400
reading to, to, um, get a drink at the Newtown hotel.

458
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,120
And I was the only person that turned up.

459
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,120
Wow.

460
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,320
Which was so weird because I was just like, why would you not?

461
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,320
Anyway.

462
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,560
And, um, he was like, what do you think about the play?

463
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,600
And I just was like, can I be honest with you?

464
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,600
And he said, yes.

465
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,400
And I was like, it's, it's really misogynistic.

466
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,400
Wow.

467
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,480
And he was like, okay, wow, let's talk about that.

468
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,680
Because he, obviously that was not his intention, but it was, it was kind of a story that he

469
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,920
had written based off his own life, um, about him coming out as a bisexual man.

470
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,060
And part of that was leaving a really toxic marriage to a woman.

471
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:22,840
And I was reading for the part of his ex-wife and, and, um, what he, you know, it came,

472
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,080
basically it was misogynistic because that character was underdeveloped.

473
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,680
That's why is she just didn't have much depth to her anyway.

474
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,240
And so he really responded.

475
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,440
We had a great chat that night over a couple of pints and, um, he's always kind of looped

476
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,940
me back into the project whenever he's developed it.

477
00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:39,480
And it's really come a long way.

478
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,400
And, um, yeah.

479
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,360
And then just, I think, you know, one, you get recommended for other bits of creative

480
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,360
work.

481
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,560
So I've done a couple with him, with that same company that often produce these developments

482
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,240
and then through other people that I think they recommended me to.

483
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,240
That's awesome.

484
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,240
Yeah.

485
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,240
It's really fun.

486
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,240
I do love it.

487
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,320
I mean, like, I love that you flagged the misogynistic angle.

488
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Well, he, I mean, part of it was him.

489
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,800
He was such a warm, generous, open person that was not, he was so brave, I think in

490
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,120
being like, tell me what you think about my work.

491
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,840
So it was, he was very receptive to that.

492
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,520
Um, and, um, yeah, I could obviously tell that that was not his intention as well, but

493
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,280
I was like, this, you, someone needs to, and also I was the only woman that was involved

494
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,120
in the, in the initial project.

495
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,520
So I was like, okay, someone needs to call this.

496
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,520
And it needs to be me.

497
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,240
And it needs to be me.

498
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,240
Yeah, definitely.

499
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,680
I mean, like that's always the thing as well.

500
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,960
Um, you know, I love that about, you know, like to play developments or just like developing

501
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,080
and a concept in general is when you kind of like nitpick it apart.

502
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,480
But it's great that you found a writer because I often feel like writers are very precious.

503
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,480
They're very precious about how their content is created and the style.

504
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,160
And you know, it's really interesting when you're like so open and warm about your idea

505
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,800
and just going, oh yeah, let's pick it apart.

506
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Like let's, let's dissect it.

507
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,440
Yeah.

508
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,440
You've got to be really brave.

509
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Yeah.

510
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,200
Cause a lot of, I've met a lot of writers who just don't like anything changed.

511
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,160
They've, they're very structured too.

512
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,280
And you know, like I've been in that position as well where I'm like, oh, it's my baby.

513
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,480
I don't want to like destroy it and have someone pick it apart.

514
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,720
But sometimes it needs to be like, this isn't, you know, there's elements that don't work

515
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,680
or, you know, where's, where's it get lost in translation?

516
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:27,840
Like, and I think that it's, it's kind of where you see the best plays, especially like,

517
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,200
I don't know if you were, I remember watching like development plays and stuff very early

518
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,800
on when like, you know, watching like their one-off performances and stuff and whether

519
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,040
they were any good or not.

520
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,720
And sometimes I used to go and see those, especially they used to have them on the CMOS

521
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,560
center when I was working there.

522
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,480
And that was always very interesting because when you saw plays that really shouldn't have

523
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,680
ever been made or the ones that were, you had potential, but they weren't cast well

524
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,080
or they weren't thought out.

525
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,040
Like there was something in the middle that I was like, this is missing about 50 ideas

526
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,040
in it.

527
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,880
Like, do you, are you more now self, like are you more critical now when you go and

528
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,400
see performances because of this play development skill that you've developed?

529
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:20,240
I am very critical when I, for better or for worse, I'm very critical when I see.

530
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:29,080
Um, work, but I, I'm, um, but I'm also, I think quite generous as well.

531
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,000
Like I know what it is to, but there's, you know, there's so many moving parts to a production.

532
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,840
It's, you can't put, you know, it's, it's unfair to say, Oh, that was terrible.

533
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,520
That whole play was terrible.

534
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,200
You know, I think you can have moments of your own private thought of what you thought

535
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,160
worked and what didn't work and various performances that you thought were just a little bit misjudged

536
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:57,520
or, you know, um, so, and I, yeah, I know from being in the midst of bad plays myself,

537
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,560
like it's, it's so much more than just like a single element.

538
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,960
It's so how much it ties together.

539
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,960
Um, yeah.

540
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:05,960
Yeah.

541
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:15,360
I love that you, you took a second to be like, Hmm.

542
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,360
Yeah.

543
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,360
Yeah.

544
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,120
I mean, like I, I, I do agree with that.

545
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,320
I don't think it's just one like tiny element though.

546
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,560
It's like everything is crucial to this one moment, but I've, I've seen, I've definitely

547
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,520
seen like, especially knowing some people who started out and they're seeing their first

548
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,440
work or seeing ideas that they've written.

549
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,280
And then over time when they've developed plays, like I know if you write, um, play

550
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,820
rights and you know, watching them develop ideas versus when they start, you're like,

551
00:32:41,820 --> 00:32:47,040
you can see the element, the idea there, but you're just like, there's so many like factors

552
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,560
that you need to slim down.

553
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,480
And it's also as well, the context in which you're critical, you know, like, yeah, I think,

554
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,480
you know, often if you're going to see new Australian work, you know, firstly, we've

555
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,080
it's Sydney's particularly ruthless, I think of not letting people fail.

556
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,360
Um, I feel like we're very judgy, like very judgy, very quickly.

557
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,520
Cause it's so competitive here, you know, and there's a shortage of space and all this

558
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,480
kind of thing, you know, I, you know, we've, it has, it's, there's such a fine line between

559
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,680
going and supporting new work and supporting artists growth and development.

560
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,240
And also, you know, being critical and being like, well, if you're inviting a paying audience,

561
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,400
you can't beat this level of, you know, what it is.

562
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:26,680
So it's just, it's just funny.

563
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:33,240
I think there's a context in which you arrive with a generosity of spirit and can be really

564
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,240
positive about what some, what's been developed and what's been, and then other things you

565
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,240
go and see.

566
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,920
And you just think that's no, you know, for Bell Shakespeare, that was terrible.

567
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,920
You know, like that's terrible, you know, whatever it is.

568
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,440
I think it's also like, it's, it's, you always got to lay with good ideas and bad ideas.

569
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,840
I think it's like you, you, you're pros and you're cons because I feel like there's always

570
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,600
good elements, especially with each, you know, I say this about any film that's ever made

571
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,040
because as a creator of content as well, like, I think everything I've made is perfect.

572
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Like nine times out of 10 is terrible or it's missed hit the man.

573
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,200
But I think, um, you know, it's when someone goes, that's great.

574
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,800
And I'm like, I can see the flaws, but I'm glad you don't because I know what I'm, you

575
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,800
know.

576
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:15,800
Yeah.

577
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,560
And often as well, I find, you know, if we've closed people that are close to me and whose

578
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,880
opinion I and judgment I really honor often, often if they give me their honest feedback

579
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,680
about work that I'm in, it's just an affirmation for me because so often I'm like, you're right.

580
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,480
And I felt the same way through that process.

581
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,000
You know, we lacked this or we really struggled with this element or we didn't quite hit that

582
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,360
point or whatever.

583
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,000
And so, so often I find it affirming that actually not even though we didn't execute

584
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,320
it, the fact that I was able to identify that in some way, or I felt that there was something

585
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:54,680
missing means that I do have, you know, there is a good critical brain that I have, you

586
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,320
know, that I could identify that even if we didn't achieve it, you know, it's all part

587
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,320
of learning.

588
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,240
I, I've never been on any experience where I haven't learned something, you know, and

589
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:11,520
I feel like whether it's performing or anything or, you know, like writing and going, Oh,

590
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,200
I actually repeated myself.

591
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,400
Like I've already said that.

592
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,800
And you know, that's why I think also asking people is like the best thing because it's

593
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:24,160
like, you know, like people have different feedback and all the time, and then I've sent

594
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,800
ideas out to people and they've had different various things of, Oh, I love that.

595
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,800
Oh, I didn't like that.

596
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,020
You know, and like you ask about five people that I trust.

597
00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:36,120
And then sometimes I ask five random people, I'm like, Oh, you've never seen this work

598
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,120
before.

599
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,080
Let's see what you think and how, you know, they might be super close to me and they might

600
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,260
also not be.

601
00:35:41,260 --> 00:35:44,360
And it's really interesting when some people are like, that's a great idea.

602
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,360
And they barely know me and they're like, that's really solid.

603
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,360
And that's always, I think, like the way it's kind of goes back to that Hollywood idea where

604
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,840
you show a random bunch of test audiences of your screening and they go, I like this.

605
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,400
I don't like this because they're not like, it's that idea of like trial and error.

606
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,920
It's let's see what sticks and what doesn't, but I've never gone into a scenario where

607
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:14,200
I guess I'm super reliant on, you know, particularly it, I guess, making this exorbitant amount

608
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,800
of fame because I, you know, like back in the day, you know, I used to think exposure,

609
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,840
everyone, you know, famous, you know, celebrity status, we'd go back to that.

610
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,240
And now I'm just like, as long as everyone's enjoying it and it's project that everyone

611
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:32,760
thinks is worthwhile, that's probably where I think I feel more like affirmed and satisfied,

612
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,220
especially with my career versus like, you know, I know some people who are never satisfied

613
00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:40,720
with anything they've ever done and I'm content with the past.

614
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:47,560
But I look at my old high school HSA video, which it's online and it was this sort of

615
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,840
like thing that I filmed on a handicap and I don't hate it.

616
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,080
I think it's, I think it's not great, but I think it's quite funny and it's quite sweet.

617
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,920
And you know, like it's clearly an 18 year old me, like, you know, with braces and acting

618
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,920
in it and you know, going, this is doable.

619
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,120
And I, you know, like years later, I think of like, oh, these are the things I could

620
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,320
do better about it, but I'm not going to redo it.

621
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,720
I'm not going to think I need to redo this and make it better.

622
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:22,000
You know, like, I feel like that's the difference is when you see people to retry retread, like

623
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,480
constantly old ideas.

624
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,160
Do you, do you feel like, I mean, it's also like with play development, you know, because

625
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,280
you talk about three years and stuff, you know, we spend every idea if we're writing

626
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,400
a concept or we're creating something from scratch to probably five years over six years

627
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,760
of our life invested in this idea.

628
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,760
And then some of those ideas don't ever see the light of day.

629
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,800
Like how do you mentally prepare for that as well?

630
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:48,800
Yeah.

631
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,880
I mean, I, I'm yeah, I don't really do much writing myself.

632
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:01,160
So I personally haven't had that, that experience of what if my idea never comes to light?

633
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,160
Yeah.

634
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,200
Like giving up on it on a project or an idea, like usually I'm not spearheading the project.

635
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,160
I am a functionality for something else.

636
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,280
And I will do my job and that's satisfying and that's nice.

637
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,600
And ultimately the end product, whatever it is, is not my problem.

638
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:24,920
I suppose like, you know, it would be so lovely to see it get to a place where it's, you know,

639
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,840
whatever the writer wants it to be.

640
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:36,240
But yeah, it's funny you say, I find it really hard to watch back my old work.

641
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:37,240
Really?

642
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,240
Yeah.

643
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:43,960
And I think I have to do it with a lot of compassion because, you know, you have to

644
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:51,160
say to yourself, like I did as best as I could with the resources that I had at the time

645
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,840
and every experience I hope will make me a better actor.

646
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,600
And so the next project I do, I will hopefully do better work than I did.

647
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,560
But all the time I think about a show that I didn't think I wouldn't do it that way

648
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,840
now, you know, and it doesn't mean that I hated or thought that it wasn't good at the

649
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,840
time.

650
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,800
It's just, it's just the more that you grow and learn and you just think, Oh, I would

651
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,440
have made a different choice there and that's okay.

652
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,880
You just have to try and look back with compassion, even though I'm not really good at doing that.

653
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,520
I have to tell myself.

654
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:21,520
Oh yeah.

655
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,760
And I, it's, God, that is true as well.

656
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:30,120
Like there's a lot of, you know, you've got to be compassionate and self reflect.

657
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,680
But I mean like, you know, whether I think also when I particularly have made stuff and

658
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,040
I think I come, you know, like, especially when I direct and you know, I've directed

659
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,080
stuff in the past, I've definitely thought, Oh, that direction wasn't strong or that could

660
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,240
have been better or that, you know, like I've often thought that.

661
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:48,200
Um, but then like sometimes I'm like, Oh, that was great.

662
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,200
You know, that was like fine.

663
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,240
That, you know, that did its job.

664
00:39:52,240 --> 00:40:01,160
Um, and yeah, it's, I got to be compassionate, self critical, but it's so funny because,

665
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,800
you know, I consider everything a slice of time as well.

666
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,680
Like you living that slice of time, like I'm not, you know, I'm 30 now, I'm not 18 or

667
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,160
22 or anything like that.

668
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,520
That was me back then.

669
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:16,800
And now as an adult, I'm like, Oh, you know, adult quotation marks, everything is like

670
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,000
very, you know, theoretical at this point.

671
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,960
Um, you know, it's, it's one of those things that I think, you know, when I reflect on

672
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,200
previous projects that I, I can't, you know, be too critical of myself.

673
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,860
Like, you know, it's not even compassion.

674
00:40:30,860 --> 00:40:35,720
It's just, I can't think of, I always think of it as a different version of me.

675
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,320
That's the only way I can watch like a lot of things.

676
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,640
Um, but you know, I guess it's also kind of like a weird legacy.

677
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,440
Like your own little personal legacy.

678
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,760
Cause I, you know, like the back in the day, especially like if we were born like 50 years

679
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,520
ago or, you know, something like that, the only way we could have ever been on film was

680
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,560
to crack the industry and, and be there.

681
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:07,440
And now we've got phones, we've got like, you know, like mini DSLR cameras, you know,

682
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,080
mic's, you know, clearly homeset podcast setups, you know, people can do almost anything

683
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,080
now.

684
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:20,200
And I think while that's great, there is a little bit of like, how good are people, you

685
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:25,120
know, like understanding the fundamental basics of like getting ahead and, you know, and the

686
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,680
competitiveness it goes back to that.

687
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,200
Like, you know, we talk about like self-worth and self-drive, like, you know, where do we

688
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,000
see ourselves on the picking order?

689
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,080
Like, you know, do you, do you see now, especially now, like, you know, you talk about like taking

690
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,840
everything as like day by day and you know, like moment by moment in terms of your career

691
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,640
and everything, where do you hope, I guess, for yourself in 10 years?

692
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Like what are you hoping and versus what is your reality expectation of that?

693
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,640
Yeah.

694
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:03,920
I think my dream is to just be a full-time actor, you know, just to not have to, um,

695
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:09,480
supplement my work with other things that I don't really want to do.

696
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,280
Even though there's great, you know, I love the pub that I work at now at the moment and

697
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,720
there's, you know, great life lessons and great people that you meet and great stories

698
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,520
that you, you know, like nothing's wasted.

699
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,600
But I think I would just love to be able to go from job to job and do what I do and make,

700
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,160
do what I want to do and make art kind of every day.

701
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,520
That would be the dream, I think.

702
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:35,280
And I don't necessarily want, um, to be rich and famous though financial security would

703
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,280
be nice.

704
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:42,760
And with, with, um, there are some positives to being more well known, like not having

705
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:48,740
to be in that meat grinder of auditioning all the time and having a certain kind of

706
00:42:48,740 --> 00:42:51,720
veneration and respect within the industry is lovely.

707
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:52,720
Who doesn't want that?

708
00:42:52,720 --> 00:43:00,080
Um, yeah, I think I just, I just would love to be a full time actor really in whatever

709
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,080
way that looks like.

710
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,880
Cause I think, you know, moving from project to project, you learn different things about

711
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:11,200
the time that whatever you're doing set and there's always research to be done.

712
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,200
It's always so exciting.

713
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,080
So yeah, that's what I'd love to do.

714
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,640
I think that's the, that's the dream.

715
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:18,640
Can I say that?

716
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,640
I love that dream.

717
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,640
That's a great dream.

718
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,640
Thank you.

719
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,920
But it's a, it's a very simple dream as well.

720
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,360
It's not a very like complicated and hard dream to achieve.

721
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,720
Except, yeah, well, except, except not in competitiveness because like, you know, I,

722
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,520
I do know friends who'd like, you know, are older than, you know, both of us and they

723
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,280
talk about like, they're like, Oh, my career's over and stuff.

724
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,480
I'm like, I think it was like something I read recently, which was like Morgan Freeman

725
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,440
didn't actually become famous until he was 50.

726
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:49,760
And you know, what if you famous actors didn't actually get noticed until much later in life?

727
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,880
And, you know, I like watch something with Ryan Reynolds, like when he was young and

728
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,680
chubby, like he was very not like the, you know, and I think it took him so many films

729
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:00,680
to get where he is today.

730
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,120
You know, it's, it's one of those things that, you know, you're not going to always hit the

731
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,280
mark the first few years, you know, you might hit it when you're 40, you might hit it when

732
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,280
you're 50.

733
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,880
Like, I think it goes back to that pedestal where we sit in the hierarchy and where we

734
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,880
see ourselves and, you know, and in terms of, you know, what makes us and, you know,

735
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,880
what is the process of making us?

736
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,880
Um, and I don't know, it's, it comes down to me as self gratification.

737
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,480
Like what have I achieved in the last two years?

738
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:30,600
What have I done?

739
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:36,080
And whether that's made me sort of eternally like my cup is full in terms of self, you

740
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,000
know, um, like in the last two years, I feel like a lot more people know of my existence

741
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,600
because I've done a podcast.

742
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,600
Um, but before then I feel like people knew me through other means, like, and, and I kind

743
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,680
of got to a point where I think it was like 2019 and one of my friends was like, a lot

744
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,680
of people know you in the industry.

745
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:58,040
And I'm like, how I've hardly met anyone, but people do, they just know your name and

746
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,640
then they talk about you and then you kind of get recommended for things.

747
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,120
And you know, you just kind of go, oh yeah, they're a great person to work with or they're

748
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,720
great personality or anything like that.

749
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:14,520
So you kind of just get weirdly recommended in this industry, like do you find, you know,

750
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,240
it goes back to your like project development and, you know, and play, play development.

751
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:24,320
It's, it must be very weird that you're getting, you know, a part of you, you just go, oh,

752
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,560
but this isn't me like imposter syndrome, like, you know, that's not me.

753
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,120
Yeah, totally.

754
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,360
Um, yes.

755
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,360
Oh yeah.

756
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:33,360
All the time.

757
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,360
I feel like that.

758
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:35,840
Oh, I can't do that.

759
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,560
I don't, I don't think so.

760
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:38,560
Yeah.

761
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,560
All the time.

762
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,640
I have feelings like where I just think I'm not good enough for that yet or something,

763
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,360
you know, like I'm not, I haven't had enough professional development in order to maybe

764
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,680
perform at that level or something.

765
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Or if I did get cast in a massive project, I don't know if I would be psychologically

766
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,680
ready for kind of the pressure that would be expected of me, but you just, but like

767
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,160
if it happened to you, of course would go for it.

768
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,160
So yeah.

769
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,160
Yeah.

770
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,160
I don't know.

771
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,400
It's funny you talk about self self gratification.

772
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:15,320
I think it's, I've really struggled with, um, you know, why, why we do this stuff because

773
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,560
of course you love it and you have to love it to be able to sustain yourself doing this,

774
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:27,680
but there also becomes an act of servitude as well that we have to kind of, um, uphold

775
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,120
as well, you know, what are we serving the story?

776
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,920
Like I think, you know, it's, it's just a really fine line between I'm doing this because

777
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,240
I love it and what do I want to get out of this project?

778
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:41,760
And also how can I serve the project?

779
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,320
How can I serve the audience?

780
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:49,080
How can I, um, you know, remove the self from this project?

781
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,440
I've really struggled with that concept actually.

782
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,920
Um, as these go on, that's not a very developed thought, but I know I agree with it though.

783
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,960
Like I like the way that thought was going.

784
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,040
Um, no, I think that's true as well.

785
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:12,320
Like I've definitely also, I think, you know, abandoned projects and stuff and abandoned

786
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,640
ideas that I've had because I didn't think I was ready to do them.

787
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,600
Um, you know, whether I thought I ran into them too ambitious and then sort of went,

788
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,960
Oh, no, you know, this has gone along.

789
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,040
Now I say it's chugged along, but I don't think I've got the skills or the expertise

790
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,440
to really pull this off.

791
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:35,040
And I think it needs more life experience, but I also, you know, like part of me just

792
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,640
goes like it's with my photography as well.

793
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:44,160
And, and, you know, like my dad, my dad and, um, uh, Emily's dad are both very not easy

794
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,480
to please always people.

795
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,200
They're very lovely, but, um, they're both like in terms of photography, very highly

796
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,520
critical and they've both said, Oh, you do good photography.

797
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,720
And I'm like, I always think, no, I don't.

798
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:55,720
It's terrible.

799
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:58,400
Like, it's just, you know, it's your average stuff.

800
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,720
Um, but it is interesting because like, I compare myself to others and that's where

801
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,880
I sit or sit on that, you know, like constantly looking at other work and, you know, and everything.

802
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,560
I think there's a real like sense of value because I've been terrible.

803
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:16,240
Like one of the things particular, I've always been very bad at putting a price on me and,

804
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:19,520
and really think of me as like, goes back to that product thing.

805
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,000
Like how much am I actually worth?

806
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,240
A lot of the time I say nothing.

807
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:25,920
So it's like easy free work.

808
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,360
You take me as a labor, but it's, it's not true because I've gone into

809
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,840
this point where I'm like, you know, I am worth something.

810
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:31,800
I am worth time.

811
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,280
I'm worth energy and I'm worth, and I'm worth like at some point money.

812
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,920
And, you know, like, I feel like that as an adult is not a hard ask, but man, does it

813
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,880
make people really not like you very quickly.

814
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:50,360
They're like, Oh, you, you have a price now and you're not like, it's like, how dare you?

815
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:57,760
But, but it's, it's true because I feel like, um, people don't know what to do with the

816
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,440
fact that, you know, like, you know, someone puts a price on, especially with friends.

817
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,800
Like they're like, I'm not free labor as much anymore.

818
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,600
Like I can't just always cater to freeness.

819
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,840
Um, you know, I know we're close, but you know, I can't, you know, just empty my time

820
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200
willy-nilly because then I would do it for everyone.

821
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,200
We do you get to that point with your, you know, are you hoping to get that point

822
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,200
with your acting like all the time or do you do still occasionally do free stuff?

823
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,920
I do a lot of free stuff where I am right now.

824
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,600
Um, and I guess I would be lovely to, to be, you know, just, just to be able to

825
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,080
sustain being an actor, you have to get paid.

826
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,040
And so that would obviously be like ideal.

827
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,640
And it depends on the project, of course, you know, and the distribution of the

828
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,840
project, and if the producers are making money off this, then I should be making

829
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:55,480
money off this, but if it's a very good friend of mine's passion project, um, I

830
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,280
will, you know, I would do that for free and I would do that to help them out.

831
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:04,600
Or, you know, I have this, um, I kind of have this rule if it's a, um, unpaid

832
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,200
work or independent theater production or what have you, I have this kind of a

833
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,320
five, five kind of things that I say to myself, it's do I like the director?

834
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:14,720
Do I like the role?

835
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:15,840
Is it a good role for me?

836
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:16,200
Yep.

837
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,000
Do I like the other cast?

838
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,840
Um, do I like the company and is it a great space or something?

839
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Yeah.

840
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,960
Yeah.

841
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,760
I think that's the correct five and it has to be four of those five things for

842
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,480
me to deem it worth it to do it.

843
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:31,120
Really?

844
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,160
Um, because it's not sustainable otherwise.

845
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,200
Like you can't, you know, thrash yourself for a project that's not really worth it

846
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:43,440
in the end, if you're not making money off it, but, um, yeah, it depends on the

847
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,760
context of, of the work, I think.

848
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:46,680
Yeah.

849
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,160
What you decide to do for free.

850
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:49,720
I think absolutely.

851
00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:54,360
And I think that you could also like with free projects, it's gotta be fun.

852
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,320
And I think it's interesting because like I, I've gotten to that point, especially

853
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,680
with some of the projects that I've been doing recently, which, you know, it

854
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,000
seems like an ache in the pain.

855
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,600
Um, but I've definitely like with some of my own, I've gotten to the point where I

856
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,360
think because a lot of people were doing it, you know, favors for me, I got really

857
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:18,320
probably kind of more irritated when time wasn't important, like you'd organize

858
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,920
something and then people had to pull out or something like, and it was just, I

859
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:27,720
was like, I, this burns my energy and burns my batteries, which I think is like

860
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:31,040
when you, it's your own passion project and stuff, you've got to make it worthwhile

861
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,200
for yourself as well.

862
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:33,360
Like it's really weird.

863
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,840
Like, cause you know, I believe that yes, treat everyone because they're all doing

864
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,120
your favors, but at the same time, no one miss anyone else around.

865
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,320
And it's because then everyone's going to feel tired.

866
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,280
Like it's going to be like, we've had to reschedule like 50 times.

867
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:54,520
Um, and I, and I feel like when I've done favors for friends as well, and I've

868
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,600
helped them with their, you know, passion projects and short films and stuff, I

869
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,000
always try and make sure that they know if I can't do something, I let them know.

870
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,400
Or if something's come up and I'm going, I just can't do it anymore.

871
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,200
You know, give them notice, but I've, I've definitely, you know, I understand

872
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,640
that frustration and pain because I'm like, why I've been there and I'm, you

873
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,320
know, it's, it's really annoying when you've spent all this time trying to

874
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,200
organize everything and then something, you know, one part of the cog just

875
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:24,480
disappears, but you know, there's no perfect world, I think, especially when

876
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,520
you're, you know, not paying anyone.

877
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,960
And I, like, I used to think this like mentality and I, and I do a lot now,

878
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,680
which is if you're, you know, if you sign up for something and you agree to do

879
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:36,960
something, you kind of agree to do it.

880
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,840
You don't like, you know, if paid work comes up, you just, you know, try and

881
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,920
rejig your life around where that paid work can sit in, but you don't like,

882
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:50,240
unless you've given fine night notice, it's probably best you don't pull out.

883
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:54,840
It's funny because I, you know, like I, I thought of that, especially when I

884
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:59,400
left, you know, you know, TAFE and tertiary education, but a lot of my

885
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:04,400
friends don't think that they think that that's a very fine thing to kind of

886
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,480
pull out, you know, when it's paid work.

887
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:12,520
And I don't know, I don't know if that's like the value I see on, especially

888
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:18,080
understanding how hard it is to make something and the tireless efforts that

889
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:24,520
actually is to write it, to produce it, to organize like five to 20 people in

890
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,080
one location to get, you know, like if you're filming location permits, you

891
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,840
know, all this stuff, um, to get it all organized and, you know, that's the,

892
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:39,120
that's the hard part and then getting people to turn up is, is even harder.

893
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,520
Um, there's no easy route.

894
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,200
And I think it's the same with plays and, you know, and stuff.

895
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,160
And, you know, like I've seen, you know, people drop in and out of plays and,

896
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:52,360
you know, I think the pandemic taught me a lot about that as well to really value.

897
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,960
But I think it's gone, it's done the other thing for some people.

898
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,400
I think it's like flipped them on their heads where they're only to consider

899
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,800
like super, super well paid things as what they're worthwhile.

900
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,720
It's interesting because yeah, it's like a mental health thing or, you know,

901
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,480
like, but what's your thoughts on that?

902
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,080
Like that sort of mentality of like, you know, pulling out of projects,

903
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,240
especially if, or if paid work comes along.

904
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,400
I think you have to be really discerning early on about what you say yes to.

905
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:18,760
Yeah.

906
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,480
Just really thinking about it, you know, asking to see a script before you say

907
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,840
yes to, you know, who, who's involved.

908
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:30,280
Um, what, what exactly will be the demands if, if I'm, you know, if I say

909
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,360
yes to this project or what have you.

910
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,560
Um, and then, yeah, I think, and yeah, if it's, if you think that something

911
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:44,240
paid might come up, then making that expectation aware, I think if I was

912
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:51,320
maybe, you know, doing an unpaid short film or something, um, and I would,

913
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,480
you know, establishing that expectation that if I do get paid work in this time,

914
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,880
I will most likely go and do that.

915
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:57,600
Yeah.

916
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:02,040
Um, because, you know, I don't think anyone can really blame you.

917
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,800
There's such a scarcity of actual paid work out there for actors.

918
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,160
You'd be a fool to say no, I think.

919
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:09,040
Yeah.

920
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,080
Um, I don't think that's actually happened to me though.

921
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,000
So I don't think I've ever had to choose between projects.

922
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,120
I'm not that in demand.

923
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,200
Um, I did, I did find it funny though, like, I think it was more of a tape

924
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,920
thing as well, I did, we did have actors drop in and out, like that was very much

925
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,560
like, because when you're a student, like everything's swap and changeable.

926
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,240
Cause I noticed that most actors don't want to work on student projects.

927
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:36,200
They're like, you know, the last thing you really want to do.

928
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,360
Um, but everyone's got to start somewhere, especially like, um,

929
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,680
and again, it's just that the expectation of what the project's going to be.

930
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,240
If you're, if you're hoping to get a certain amount of self-fulfillment

931
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,560
from this student project, you're probably going into it wrong.

932
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,560
You've got to approach that project with a spirit of generosity to be like,

933
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:58,600
yeah, you know, like the last student film that I worked on, um, they, um,

934
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,480
there was a problem with the data wrangling.

935
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:06,000
And so we had something like seven minutes of footage left on the entire.

936
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,000
Um, memory card.

937
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,200
And so we got to do one take of everything.

938
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,120
And it was just so intense.

939
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:18,400
Um, and, but, you know, but I was just like, this project's not about me.

940
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,600
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

941
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,760
It's about the kids that are working on this, on this project.

942
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,280
And so in a way I was, I, you expect something to go wrong.

943
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,120
And when it does happen, you go, that's fine.

944
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,200
I'm I'll do whatever you need me to do.

945
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:31,840
Yeah.

946
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:38,560
And just funnily enough, though, the lead actor did pull out of that, of that show

947
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,240
about a week before they started shooting, but they managed to recast.

948
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:43,640
But I know you've got to have contingencies for that.

949
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:43,920
Don't you?

950
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,040
If you're going to do unpaid work, you just have to have backups.

951
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,640
Yeah, and it's, and it's long.

952
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:50,560
Oh God.

953
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:50,880
Yeah.

954
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:56,560
Um, you know, it's, I've had, I love all my, um, you know, sound operators

955
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:01,760
and recorders and stuff, like, um, love them to bits, but I've had like some pull

956
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,440
out like a week before shoot or like a few days before shooting, you have to

957
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,960
scrounge, you have to scrounge because you, you know, and I love, I've loved all

958
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,000
the people, especially the crew that I've worked with, I've loved a lot of the

959
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,200
actors, but I love, I've mostly loved a lot of the crew that I've worked with

960
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,880
because they're all like very genuine people.

961
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,520
And yeah, it's like the more notice they give me when they can't do something,

962
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,400
it's, it's the best because it's just like, Oh, okay, cool.

963
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,560
You can't, you know, as frustrating as it is, I'm like, I'd rather reschedule

964
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,480
to work with you or if you can't do these dates, let's, you know, I might

965
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,280
have to get someone else.

966
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:36,800
I'm very upfront about that.

967
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,280
I'm like, if you can't do these days, I'm going to find someone else who can

968
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:40,880
because it's not about you.

969
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,400
It's about just getting the product done.

970
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:43,040
Yeah.

971
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,760
Um, but some, you know, like some people just make it work.

972
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:46,800
They're like, Oh, okay, cool.

973
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:47,680
Then I'm going to make it work.

974
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,200
You know, like once you give them that automatum, then it's like, this is the

975
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,360
new date and you're going to make it work or not.

976
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,840
Like they, they, they stick to their gun and I admire people who do that because

977
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,560
you know, you can't just, I guess, like keep jumping dates until everyone's

978
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,440
happy because no one's ever going to be a hundred percent happy.

979
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:11,840
Um, but I do, I do think that my first ever, you know, like my first ever, you

980
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,920
know, the HSC film was a prime example.

981
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,520
My friend who was being camera operator, we didn't have sound.

982
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,200
So we had the sound off the camcorder.

983
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,720
It was like so basic.

984
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:26,240
Um, you know, and he dropped out, um, because at the time he was

985
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:27,440
dating the lead actress.

986
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,240
Um, and then they broke up at, so it was kind of like, you know, probably we

987
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,000
filmed over the course of like four weeks and he dropped out after two days of

988
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:41,280
filming and then I had to film it with my brother and my dad and to feel like

989
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:45,040
and to fill in and I, and I then asked another friend to help me film.

990
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,640
So I was kind of like left really in the lurch and I was like, and the

991
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:49,920
product look like it's fine.

992
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:51,760
I didn't just go great.

993
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,080
I think of the HSC of drama, but, um, but I was proud of that.

994
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:55,600
I did it.

995
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,440
Um, and it was very interesting because it was kind of one of those

996
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,680
conversations that I, I, he, you know, it was one of those things that I

997
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:08,240
remember looking back at now is like, so silly that, you know, that all happened

998
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,040
and we kind of like, he didn't turn up because of a breakup and stuff.

999
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,720
But I also kind of get it, but it was so like long ago that I'm like, Oh, those

1000
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:20,000
are the things that kind of kind of fall apart so simply that you suddenly like

1001
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,040
you're wrangling your brother and your dad kind of helped you finish a project.

1002
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,600
And my brother is not a tech person.

1003
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,440
He's just like, he doubled for me in a scene because I couldn't

1004
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:30,840
drive at the time as well.

1005
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,040
So we parked the car in my outfit.

1006
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,960
Um, you know, and, and those are the things that you make work.

1007
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:41,320
And like, you know, my, my partner, um, Emily is amazing.

1008
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:42,960
She, she's worked in like film.

1009
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,920
So she, you know, if I need anything, she is happy to just kind of be like,

1010
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:47,320
yeah, sure.

1011
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:48,720
I'll, I'll help out, you know?

1012
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,480
Um, and that's when, you know, you, all you, I've got friends who are like,

1013
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,640
yeah, I'll just fill in a, you know, whatever you need, who don't work in

1014
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,920
those roles, who are just happy to help.

1015
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,520
That's when you have a good network of people who just help you get things

1016
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,600
done rather than stress.

1017
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,720
Honestly, I think every, every unpaid thing I've ever done at the 11th

1018
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:10,840
hour, something goes wrong.

1019
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,320
Yeah.

1020
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,000
It's always, you know, whether it's a costume and malfunction or this

1021
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,400
person's pulled out or, or what have you, or someone's unwell or where you're

1022
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,720
severely under rehearsed for whatever reason, there's just, or it's my own

1023
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,240
psyche that decides you're not an actor.

1024
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,480
You can't do this.

1025
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:27,920
What are you talking?

1026
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:28,400
Oh my gosh.

1027
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,160
Well, you know, you're not ready.

1028
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,760
Like there's always something that goes wrong.

1029
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:38,040
The last, the last show that I did the other lead actor in it, it was a two

1030
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:39,360
handed between me and another actor.

1031
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,560
And yeah, at the 11th hour, the other actor dropped out and, um, oh my goodness.

1032
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:49,960
We, we, and so we did a recast at the 11th hour and we had one two hour rehearsal.

1033
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,560
I had one two hour rehearsal with this new actor before we opened

1034
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,320
the show to a paying audience.

1035
01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:01,280
So it's sometimes it's just a miracle and it's just, you just, oh, you just

1036
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:02,840
absolutely rally, don't you?

1037
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:03,320
Yeah.

1038
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,280
Cause you just think, you know, you just think you have to, you have to get this done.

1039
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,720
You have to, there's too much at stake for us to, I know.

1040
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,080
And so you just adrenaline, adrenaline blazing.

1041
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:15,320
You just go for it.

1042
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,200
Your brain just starts to melt and like, you're like, I can't function.

1043
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:19,360
Yeah.

1044
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:23,560
Um, I do want to talk to you about mental health as well, because I feel like

1045
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:28,720
that's something that both you and I experienced with doing ice.

1046
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,320
Um, I particularly like, you know, it goes back to that sort of conversation of,

1047
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,520
you know, like feeling like the arts was how I made friends and how I connected

1048
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:41,320
with people, I feel like as an adult, I've learned a lot about that, but, um,

1049
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,880
yeah, it was very interesting because my childhood, I sort of felt like the art

1050
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:50,200
was my escapism because I was a very anxious and probably, you know, like I was

1051
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:54,000
diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder when I was young.

1052
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:58,440
Um, a lot of kids bullied me because obviously they didn't know what hyperactivity

1053
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:03,120
and like, you know, and what neurodiverse actually meant, um, neurotypical brains.

1054
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:08,400
So I think that was a lot of a struggle until, you know, like even now I'm

1055
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:09,920
doing, you know, constantly doing research.

1056
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,160
So being interested in drama and stuff, I was considered the uncool kid in drama

1057
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,040
because I was so enthusiastic about it.

1058
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:19,440
I loved it.

1059
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,520
And I thought this is the bee's knees.

1060
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,440
I'll get to write and play things and I get to do things.

1061
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,920
And I think everyone thought of as a bludge class.

1062
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,800
Like it was just like, Oh, this is the easy class.

1063
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,120
You know, whatever the fuck I can do, whatever.

1064
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,640
So being now so much invested in it, I do, I I'm such a tenfold.

1065
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,000
I'm like, Oh, if I can do anything, I will, you know, like that creative itch you

1066
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,600
talked about, that's how I get things done and I love it and I, you know, do all those

1067
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:49,440
things, but it does burn me like it's the edit, you know, like constantly my amount

1068
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:58,400
of stress is, is up here and my constant anxiety is like simmering around here or

1069
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,720
here, you know, like it's fluctuates.

1070
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,080
It's like a boiling kettle.

1071
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:03,280
Are you the same?

1072
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,560
Um, yeah, I, um,

1073
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,360
Feel like I'm in a can of worms.

1074
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,160
Oh, I, yeah, I.

1075
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:20,400
I am not a super anxious person, which is, um, my miracle to me.

1076
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:20,960
I don't know.

1077
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:26,480
I mean, I mean, I do of course get nervous at things and, um, you know, in a lot of

1078
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:31,840
after, I think I've, I've a period of time, if I go through a lot of particularly

1079
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,280
difficult auditions and a lot of rejection and a lot of disappointment, I do notice

1080
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:42,800
that I close off a bit and I'm not as readily accepted as I am, but I do notice

1081
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,720
that I'm not as readily, I find acting's harder.

1082
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:52,720
I, I, I'm not as readily accessible to my emotions because I have subconsciously

1083
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,000
kind of burnt off my extremities of a feeling as a self protective mechanism.

1084
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:05,680
And so sometimes, sometimes I, I particularly struggle with returning to vulnerability

1085
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:12,000
as an artist in a safe way, because it's a, it's a learned behavior to close

1086
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:12,960
out to be met with rejection.

1087
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,880
Um, so often I would go to auditions and feel like nothing.

1088
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,040
And so not, not nervous, not excited, but just nothing.

1089
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,800
And it was this very weird thing of like, oh, but then I wasn't doing particularly

1090
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,040
good work in a room either because I wasn't being vulnerable.

1091
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:32,880
I wasn't open to, um, you know, in that creative flow where you have to be vulnerable

1092
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,600
and you have to kind of enter another world.

1093
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,000
And, um, I, I kind of shut myself off a little bit.

1094
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,120
I think my mental health is struggles.

1095
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:43,680
Yeah.

1096
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:48,240
After the, after a, um, a disappointment and it took a while for me.

1097
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:54,160
I had this kind of epiphany earlier this year that, you know, they say, um, you know,

1098
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:55,600
you need time to rest.

1099
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:56,160
Yeah.

1100
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,000
Time to take a step away from it.

1101
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,680
But so often I was like, you know what?

1102
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,560
I, I'm not, I don't feel tired.

1103
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,640
I feel defeated and that's different.

1104
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,160
Um, cause I'm like, I'm not, I don't feel like I need rest.

1105
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:11,440
I'm, I'm hungry for work.

1106
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:12,320
I just want to work.

1107
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,960
I just want to have to express myself creatively.

1108
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,560
Like I feel like I've got so much to give, but I'm not being given a paradigm.

1109
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,680
I've not been given a paradigm in which this can happen.

1110
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:27,840
And I've been told no and no, and whether I'm bombing auditions or, you know,

1111
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:33,440
something about the audition room wasn't set up in a way for me to do my best work

1112
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:38,080
or for whatever reason you don't get a project or whether it's from your own fault,

1113
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:45,360
or various other contingencies, it's sometimes what I'm left feeling is defeated, not tired.

1114
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,360
And so then it's like, how do I deal with that?

1115
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,200
Because when you're tired, you rest, but when you defeat it, you need a win.

1116
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:51,760
Yeah.

1117
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,680
But sometimes that's really hard to orchestrate for yourself because you're like, how can I,

1118
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,560
you know, how can I have a win right now?

1119
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,360
When it seems like you're not going to win, you're not going to win.

1120
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:08,320
It seems like you're at the mercy of other people letting you do what you want creatively.

1121
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,920
So it's just, I haven't really figured that one out.

1122
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,720
But that was a really important distinction that I learnt this year, earlier this year,

1123
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:21,680
after a particularly difficult period of, yeah, being told no a lot.

1124
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,640
And yeah.

1125
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:28,960
Yeah.

1126
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:34,000
Was that just audition based, like a lot of rejection from no, or was it just life based as well?

1127
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,880
And I was also knowing that I wasn't doing my best work.

1128
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:41,440
I think that's also a part of it is when you're like, I could have done better.

1129
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:41,920
Yeah.

1130
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:48,800
Or I wasn't, I think when you know that you've ruined an opportunity at your own hand,

1131
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:50,800
that's the worst, isn't it?

1132
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,440
Because you just think, oh, I messed that up.

1133
01:06:53,440 --> 01:07:03,840
And I think it's a, you know, whether it's because of not having enough time to prepare

1134
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:12,080
or being anxious in the room or not relaxed or just not for whatever reason, not hitting it that day.

1135
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,920
I think that's the most frustrating thing is when you can't, there's not a catalyst to why you

1136
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:17,920
didn't do your best work.

1137
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,520
I think that's what I really struggle with when you leave and you think, oh, what can I do better?

1138
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:26,160
At least I can learn from that is sometimes I'll leave the room and be like, there was this one

1139
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:31,600
particular audition where I really suffered afterwards, where I just did a terrible audition

1140
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,600
and there was no rhyme or reason to, I just left.

1141
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:37,680
And so in that way, I wasn't able to be like, what did I do well and what can I work on better

1142
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,320
next time is a kind of growth mechanism.

1143
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:46,400
It was just like, I don't know why I bombed that and that's so hard.

1144
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:51,280
And I think that's really hard to make peace with when there's no clarity

1145
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:52,480
around a situation.

1146
01:07:54,800 --> 01:08:01,680
And you feel out of practice and because that's kind of the thing that happened this year is

1147
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,280
I kind of for the last two years, it's all been self-tapes, right?

1148
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,480
Because of COVID and all of this kind of thing, which is in one way has been really hard,

1149
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,560
but in another way amazing.

1150
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:15,920
And so it was earlier this year, I started going back into rehearsal, auditioning in person,

1151
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,240
felt very out of practice, very unrelaxed.

1152
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:25,600
And yeah, that's kind of when I kind of suffered through a bit of a period of time and then

1153
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,600
realized, ah, it's not rest that I need.

1154
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,560
It's a win.

1155
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,080
Yeah.

1156
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:33,840
I agree with that.

1157
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:41,440
I think that was sort of very interesting thought process because yeah, when you get

1158
01:08:41,440 --> 01:08:47,360
that win and you go, oh yeah, I've done it or okay, I've got this, it's always much more

1159
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,160
satisfying and everything.

1160
01:08:50,160 --> 01:09:00,960
And I think, yeah, I've definitely had situations where I've had a lot of rejection or in different

1161
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:07,680
ways, not necessarily in auditions, but definitely in job opportunities or opportunities in general.

1162
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,960
Or they haven't lined up or something, the worst ones were starting out when just people

1163
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:17,520
give you an idea of something and then it never happened, you'd never hear of it again.

1164
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,520
And it was like, oh, okay.

1165
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,080
So there was a lot of those and I hated ambiguity.

1166
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,080
I hated that not knowing.

1167
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:31,440
But I remember I went for a job not long ago and I was in the meeting and it was very by

1168
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:32,160
the books.

1169
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,720
It was very bureaucratical.

1170
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:40,960
I won't say where it was due to the respect that I have for the place, but I remember

1171
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:49,280
sitting there and just going, this is not like, this would be, I bombed this interview.

1172
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,200
And I knew from basically like 10 minutes of sitting in, I was like, I bombed this.

1173
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,680
And it wasn't anything I did.

1174
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,920
It was nothing about what I did.

1175
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,480
It just wasn't, there wasn't a vibe.

1176
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:02,400
There was nothing in there that I did wrong.

1177
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,480
There just wasn't, I wasn't what they were looking for.

1178
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:10,320
I knew from the get go and I just felt like I was kept in that room for like an extra

1179
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,600
40 minutes trying to answer their questions and they were just going through the motions.

1180
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:14,240
Eganizing.

1181
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,600
And I just was like, this is wonderful.

1182
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:18,640
Like, cool.

1183
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:24,480
You know, and I've definitely, you know, I think it's also, I hate interviews.

1184
01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:26,640
I hate like job interviews and opportunities like that.

1185
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,640
And I just, I don't get anxious.

1186
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,400
I just hate, you know, by the books sort of asking questions because I never feel like

1187
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:32,960
it's genuine.

1188
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:37,760
I never, it's like, you know, it feels very basically they're trying to catch you out

1189
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:38,640
of what you don't know.

1190
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:44,800
And I feel like, you know, there was also an opportunity that I recently had where I

1191
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,880
could have done a, you know, and I unfortunately got COVID during it.

1192
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:53,360
Like it was the worst week to get COVID because it was meant to be really busy and good week.

1193
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:59,920
And then I got really sick and it was, I was, one of my friends had reached out and I hope

1194
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:04,960
that I get to have another opportunity because I felt really bad, but I was meant to be doing

1195
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:11,600
this book talk as a presenter and asking this writer about, you know, her journey and her

1196
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,080
experiences writing the book and the reason that she read the book.

1197
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,840
And it's, you know, if you want to go and buy it, it's in book shops.

1198
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,840
I hopefully get to interview her one day.

1199
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:25,120
I have said to her that I love her on, but I remember particularly with my friend, I

1200
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:32,080
messaged her about three days out and said, I've got COVID and she had to speed read the

1201
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:36,000
book because she had no one else to replace me with.

1202
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:41,360
And like, she put me forward and I felt so bad because she fought for me to be in that

1203
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,400
I was like, Oh no, like I can't do this.

1204
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,080
So I feel like the worst person that week.

1205
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:53,200
And I was like, Sydney, and I just was like, I, you know, really want to make it up to

1206
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,240
her for that experience because it was like, there was nothing I could have done.

1207
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:00,880
But I remember she asked me for notes and because my, I was so sick and I had, you

1208
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,200
know, I was getting progressively worse.

1209
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:07,040
I actually hadn't written that many notes because I was going to write them like a

1210
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,760
couple of nights before, but my brain couldn't come out with any.

1211
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,320
So I actually sent her like half an hour before she went on.

1212
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:13,520
I sent all my notes.

1213
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,680
I was like, this is not the right time to send notes.

1214
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,360
So she did this like interview and apparently it went really well, but I was just

1215
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,920
like, I felt so bad because I was like, this isn't, you know, you've vouched for me to

1216
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,640
be there and it's, yeah, it's just, everything sort of felt like it fell apart that week.

1217
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:32,000
It was the worst time to get, you know, like sick, but I mean, like when's the right time

1218
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:32,560
to get sick.

1219
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,240
I know, it's never a convenient time to get sick.

1220
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:38,560
But you know, like those are the experiences that I feel like, you know, really define

1221
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:46,560
everything that you do and especially the struggle, you know, and that's sort of like,

1222
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,120
yeah, it goes back to self criticism and self reflection.

1223
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:54,160
Cause I mean like, you know, like it goes to, you know, knowing, you know, there's no,

1224
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:58,160
you know, you know, you've failed, you know, from the get go, you've failed.

1225
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:59,600
You have to move on though.

1226
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:00,800
It's such a weird feeling.

1227
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,320
You just have to let that go.

1228
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:04,560
Yeah.

1229
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,560
Do you, yeah.

1230
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:08,400
Yeah.

1231
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:11,760
Are you good at that?

1232
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:16,480
No, I'm not particularly good at that.

1233
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:21,280
I don't think, especially I have very high standards for myself as well.

1234
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,240
And have you always had high standards though?

1235
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:25,760
Yes.

1236
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:26,720
I think so.

1237
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,320
I get it from my mother.

1238
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,880
I love those genetic to like, this is from mum.

1239
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,360
My mother also has a very high standard.

1240
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:38,560
I have very high standards and I, you know, struggle with perfectionism and all of that

1241
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:41,840
lovely quality.

1242
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:48,960
But yeah, I think, cause I'm still in the thick of it.

1243
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,080
I'm still working through it.

1244
01:13:50,080 --> 01:14:01,120
I think I'm still working through how to audition well and how to, you know, learning about

1245
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:06,880
what I can do in the interim in between auditions and jobs about how I can best support myself

1246
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:18,240
to be ready for, you know, and practicing and, you know, being ready yet to audition

1247
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,240
again or whatever it is.

1248
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,240
Cause you taking a break at the moment, do you think?

1249
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:25,440
Taking a break.

1250
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:28,960
Yeah, from a regular auditioning and destroying yourself.

1251
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:37,040
I mean, I, so I, the last, I did a show, the last theatre show I did was over the long

1252
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:41,200
weekend in October and that was really hard.

1253
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:42,720
I felt very drained from that.

1254
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,520
I mean, it was a great experience and I learned a lot actually.

1255
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:54,320
And I was very inspired by the people that I did it with because they were just so unapologetically

1256
01:14:54,320 --> 01:15:03,760
artists and they didn't subscribe to this kind of definitive quality of work that they

1257
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,600
thought that they needed to be.

1258
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:06,640
That makes sense.

1259
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,040
Like they made their own art, believed in it and didn't care if other people thought

1260
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:11,920
it was good or not.

1261
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:13,680
They thought it was good and that's awesome.

1262
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:19,440
And that was very inspiring because I'm much more self-conscious about what other people

1263
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:24,400
think good acting is, what I think good acting is, what's acceptable in the Australian industry

1264
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:25,520
and stuff.

1265
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,680
But I was very drained by that experience because, you know, as we had a recast of the

1266
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,680
11th hour, it was very stressful getting it done and it was independent theatre.

1267
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,120
So it's always a bit draining, I think, when you're having to work at the same time and

1268
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,120
cancel with them.

1269
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:45,920
So I kind of thought for the rest of the year, my own hustle, I'm going to kind of step back

1270
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:46,240
on that.

1271
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:50,480
But, you know, if my agents get me auditions and I want to do them, I'll still do them.

1272
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:56,720
And I have an audition this Saturday actually, but generally my own kind of hustling work

1273
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:03,680
that I do, whether that's building relationships or seeking out my own auditions or opportunities,

1274
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,600
I was like, okay, I need a bit of a rest from that.

1275
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:11,200
So I guess I have taken a little bit of a back foot and maybe after Christmas we can

1276
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,400
see how, you know, back to it.

1277
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,520
But also I'm planning to go travelling next year.

1278
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,280
For a long period?

1279
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:20,480
Probably three months or so.

1280
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:21,520
That would be nice.

1281
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:26,080
Yeah, I didn't, you know, I had travel plans in 2020 so that didn't get to happen.

1282
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:31,040
So also I've taken a bit of a step back so I can get other paid work so that I can save

1283
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:31,680
to go travelling.

1284
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:32,880
So that's just a practicality.

1285
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:45,120
But yeah, so I guess I've stepped back a little bit, but just open to things at the moment.

1286
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:49,360
It's just more like a bit phlegmatic and kind of whatever comes up, I'll do it.

1287
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:50,080
But yeah.

1288
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:55,040
I like that you also say that you're a bit of a perfectionist because, you know, like

1289
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:56,800
not that that's a great trait to always have.

1290
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:02,720
But I think it's something that I relate to as well because it's very like, you know,

1291
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,920
there's a lot of me that goes, oh, that's not perfect.

1292
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,120
And I feel like there's a grain in everyone's truth.

1293
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:19,760
But, you know, there is something about like, I guess, self, you know, like being apologetic

1294
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,760
as artists as well.

1295
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:27,920
You know, and the fact that I got to act like after eight years of not doing it against

1296
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:29,680
some of my friends and I loved it.

1297
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:33,680
And, you know, like I spoke to one of my friends after and he was like, oh, I didn't think

1298
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:34,720
you make those choices.

1299
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:36,720
But, you know, like they weren't bad choices.

1300
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:39,280
They just wouldn't have been choices that I would have made.

1301
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:44,000
But and I thought that was really kind of interesting feedback because he was like,

1302
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:44,800
no, you weren't bad.

1303
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,880
And, you know, like you weren't like, you know, super rusty or anything like that,

1304
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,720
because it's one of those things as well when you rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and,

1305
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:54,720
you know, you get into the groove of everything.

1306
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:59,760
It just felt like, you know, reigniting that old muscle of something that I hadn't done

1307
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,040
in so long.

1308
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:06,000
But it is interesting because, yeah, I used to be so self-conscious, especially like leaving

1309
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,000
drama school and stuff.

1310
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,000
You know, I got very self-conscious about my performances and stuff like that because

1311
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:16,480
I kept comparing myself to others and going, oh, you know, because for some reason I went

1312
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:21,200
to the most competitive environment where everyone wanted to tell each other that they

1313
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:22,000
weren't good enough.

1314
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,000
And, you know, like it was very competitive like that.

1315
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,960
And I think that's not what art and being actors are.

1316
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,000
You're supporting each other and being like, I can do this and you can do this.

1317
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,480
And, you know, like, let's build each other's strengths up.

1318
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:36,480
So it is nice hearing that people are unapologetic and they just like what they've done and

1319
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:37,600
they're proud of what they've done.

1320
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,760
Because I've met people who never, you know, like disassociate from projects and just go,

1321
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:43,760
I never want to have my name.

1322
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:48,480
You know, associate, even if it's like not a bad project, they just get funny about like

1323
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:51,440
little things that are like, oh, that was my worst performance ever.

1324
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:53,440
So I don't want anyone to ever see the lighter down.

1325
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:55,440
Like it's not that bad.

1326
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:57,440
Yeah.

1327
01:18:57,440 --> 01:18:58,960
It's so interesting.

1328
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:04,400
And I do think that that's a trait, you know, that I've gotten to now where I just reflect

1329
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,880
and go, you know, these are in the past.

1330
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:08,400
So, you know, people can watch them.

1331
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:10,400
I don't care.

1332
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:17,520
Are you, you know, are you now good at letting go completely of past projects and just letting

1333
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,040
people see them, even though like?

1334
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:26,960
I guess so.

1335
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:27,520
Yeah.

1336
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,120
Like the, especially the, the film that I've done.

1337
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:31,840
Yeah.

1338
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:36,080
There's a couple of things that I'm like, no, no one can see that.

1339
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,160
But generally I'm like, yeah, you can, you can.

1340
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:41,280
I mean, I'm not good at ever advertising my work ever.

1341
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:41,520
Yeah.

1342
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:42,720
You did, you did say that.

1343
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:44,720
You're like, you're like, oh, I'm a secret.

1344
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:45,840
Yeah.

1345
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:47,680
I just, I just find, I don't know.

1346
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,920
I find, I think it's this, it's the fear within me that I'm not actually good enough.

1347
01:19:51,920 --> 01:20:01,360
And that somehow, um, by not, by, I mean, usually what happens is I'm really reluctant

1348
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,240
to tell people about work that I do until right at the end.

1349
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:05,600
And then I'm like, everyone come and see it.

1350
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:09,600
Cause I'm so nervous that maybe it's not going to be good, even though it's so much

1351
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,000
more than just my performance, you know, other people that have put so much hard work into

1352
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:21,200
a show. It's so arrogant to just like, oh, base it off my own particular performance in work.

1353
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:26,320
But yeah, usually like in the last week, I'll be like, yeah, no, everyone come and see it.

1354
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,400
If I, if I'm proud of it, which usually I am, I am when it all starts to come together.

1355
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:35,360
But, um, yeah, past film work that I'm done, I guess if people really want to seek it out,

1356
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:40,000
and watch them themselves, they can, but I've never been a good person to like post it and be

1357
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:46,080
like, everyone watch this. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. I find it.

1358
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:51,440
Icky for some reason. What about, what about, what about this? What are you going to be like

1359
01:20:51,440 --> 01:20:56,720
very good at providing? Oh God, I have no, probably not mainly because I just think what,

1360
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,800
you know, I, I just don't know if people want to listen to my input.

1361
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:05,120
Isn't that interesting? You know, I used to be the same as that when I started,

1362
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:11,280
especially like I sit down conversation with my mother. I love it a bit. Um, and she was like,

1363
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:16,640
you know, as long as you don't talk about you for too long. Like that's such a particular like

1364
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:20,480
typical mother thing to say. It's like, Oh, no one wants to hear about your, you know, like

1365
01:21:21,440 --> 01:21:28,560
your life. It's, and I found that really interesting. And like, it's, there is an

1366
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,400
element, you know, I don't think everyone's interested in everyone's lives. You know,

1367
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:39,760
it's impossible. Like, you know, but I, I do think that we surprise people with how many people are

1368
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:44,800
actually genuinely interested in what we say and what we do. And, you know, and you know,

1369
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:49,520
cause insight is, you know, everything. And I think that's why I've always been,

1370
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:53,520
you know, like I always promote things regardless, you know, I'm always like,

1371
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:59,920
you know, here you go, you know, take my two cents. Um, but you know, I feel like,

1372
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:06,240
yeah, half the time people just, I, I feel are afraid. They're very in fear of, um,

1373
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:08,720
their own thoughts.

1374
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:16,960
Yeah. I don't know. I just don't think I have anything really profound to say, um,

1375
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,720
or particularly original, but if anyone listens to this, I'm very flattered.

1376
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:26,000
You're like, yeah, I think you've had a lot of original things to say.

1377
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:32,000
Well, thank you. Um, but it's not, it's just, I'm just enjoying talking about this, you know,

1378
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:36,400
it's a conversation that we've had rather than I feel like an interview or whatever. So it's,

1379
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:41,040
you know, like we're just discussing ideas, which is, it's really nice.

1380
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:47,840
It's always a concept. Everything is a concept or a hypothetical. I say everything's theoretical

1381
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:54,240
until it's actually proven. Um, but no, I mean, like I, before we sort of like wrap up, I do want

1382
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:58,640
to, you know, because I guess with social media and stuff, you, you have a private Instagram.

1383
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,560
So everything's pretty much like low key on that and your socials.

1384
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:03,700
Yes.

1385
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:09,040
You're just like, how do you, how do you promote yourself?

1386
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:18,640
I don't, um, I don't know. I feel very embarrassed about my social media presence. I don't know why

1387
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:25,360
I, um, yeah, I, I'm not, I don't know. I don't know. That's, it's a very interesting thing to

1388
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:33,360
think about, I guess, because I just, I don't know why. Um, I'm not going to post.

1389
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:34,080
Sing it into a tune.

1390
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:38,800
You don't want that. Um, yeah, I don't know why I'm,

1391
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:47,520
my, I'm private in the way that I am, especially on, on social media. I'm not sure.

1392
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:51,600
I mean, that's totally fine. I think it's like, it's very unusual when people are so public.

1393
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:56,880
More so and, and, and stuff. I think it also because, you know, we are millennials.

1394
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:03,360
Yeah. Yeah. I know. Um, also on a practical level, I think like, it's funny, like all the time I get

1395
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:09,280
weird people or just people that I think are robots or just absolutely no connection.

1396
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:13,200
When I add me on Instagram and then I think, oh, no, I like being private because I don't want

1397
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:16,480
these people to, I get a lot of weird bots. Yeah.

1398
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:22,800
I get a lot of weird bots. Um, you know, a lot of them are duplicate sites. A lot of my friends

1399
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:27,760
have gotten weird, like fan sites made of them that are made by bots. And then, you know,

1400
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:32,960
it's just a weird, like, you know how they copy and paste and then just make it a weird sex

1401
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:39,120
site, like Instagram account. And you're like, why? Um, I'm like, yeah, just made some sweet,

1402
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:45,200
sweet cash on the side. Um, if you owned it, but it's, it's one of those things that I,

1403
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,440
I do think that, yeah, like it's the only downside. And I only recently have a private Instagram.

1404
01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:55,360
Like I have a specifically one that's private, um, because there's certain things that I don't

1405
01:24:55,360 --> 01:25:01,840
want everyone to see, like, and, and I don't think is always necessary for everyone to see. Um,

1406
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:07,120
and it's very interesting because I didn't think of that for years and it's only been probably in

1407
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:13,600
the last year that I'm like, Hmm, yeah, maybe I am a little bit more, but I also like with Facebook,

1408
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:19,600
I never post anything really personal. I just talk about projects and that's it. I think,

1409
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:23,840
I know I'm the same. And so then I think in that vein, why do I have a private account? If I'm

1410
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:29,120
only posting that projects that I want people to come and say, yeah, so I don't know. It's,

1411
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:36,240
it's a weird, it's a weird thing. Um, you know, what I miss though is the days before internet

1412
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:41,360
when, you know, the only way you promote yourself is if you had them on like sign posts and you had

1413
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:49,040
your, I don't know if I've ever been practicing and having projects in a time before the internet,

1414
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:55,040
really. Did you, um, cause I remember like when I worked at the symbols and someone came in with

1415
01:25:55,040 --> 01:26:05,040
flyers and I missed I've done a few firing jobs in my time. I did. I once promoted, I was once paid

1416
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:12,880
to promote a show for Perth fringe festival called sex with animals. Yeah. It was like a comedy show.

1417
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:18,480
And obviously I think it was, you know, they were trying to provoke people into coming to see the

1418
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:24,560
show, but it was so much hostility when I was chatting out lies. And I just thought, oh, never

1419
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:31,520
again. I wonder why, I wonder why it was so much someone like some old person just looked at them

1420
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:41,200
and, oh no, send the cops to the theater. Um, what was your, I've got a final question though.

1421
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:46,320
I want to ask you, what is your, what was your first job? Um, you know, independent job,

1422
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:51,280
like when you left school, cause I'm really intrigued. My, as in my first acting job or

1423
01:26:51,280 --> 01:27:03,040
my first pay job, your first pay job ever left when I left high school. Um, I think it was, um,

1424
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:11,040
Oh, what was it? Just trying to think of a timeline here. Um, I worked well, the year out of school,

1425
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:20,720
I worked in a pub, a terrible, terrible, horrible. Um, yeah, I was like sexually harassed every day.

1426
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:27,280
Oh Jesus. Yeah. And, um, I also worked in a gelato shop. Were you sexually harassed there? No.

1427
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:32,160
Thank Christ. No, I quite like, it was with a whole bunch of Polish people. They are Polish

1428
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:38,240
family owned it and it was really fun and amazing. No, I was paid $11, 20 an hour, which is whenever

1429
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:43,920
I would tell people, they would say, that's not even a packet of cigarettes. Um, I worked at a hair

1430
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:52,080
salon briefly, like making appointments and, um, and stuff. Um, what else did I do?

1431
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:58,000
Oh, I don't know. That was all in my gap year. That's a pretty extreme,

1432
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:04,640
strenuous gap year. I had lots of just weird odd jobs in, in my, um, gap year. Yeah. Um,

1433
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:11,600
and my first ever paid acting job was on Home and Away. And what did you play? I played,

1434
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:18,400
I played, uh, Dean's secret half sister. I know you can't make it up. Can you? So the character of

1435
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:22,160
Dean, I don't even, I don't remember his last name. Now I was his secret half sister that,

1436
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:30,080
um, his dad was hiding from him. And anyway, it was all very dramatic. And how long were you in it

1437
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:36,720
for? Two episodes and I stayed secret. I was the point of tension in the, so I was more of a function

1438
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:44,400
between the character of Dean and the guy that played, um, his dad. I was kind of this point

1439
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:49,680
of tension. Oh, I love that. It was really fun and it was so exciting. It was like a first job.

1440
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:55,680
Um, like Home and Away was such a fam, you know, they, cause they make, I mean, they now make four

1441
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:59,680
episodes a week, but when I was on it, there was, they were making five episodes a week. Wow. So

1442
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,680
they, all the crew knew each other and it was really fast and relaxed and it was all,

1443
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:09,280
um, everyone knew each other. It was like a family. So everyone was like, Hey, hey. And, um,

1444
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:15,920
I got a rehearsal, which was amazing. Yeah. Cause I was about to say like that's, yeah, it's their

1445
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:21,280
time. Yeah. So I was really eased into it and I got to meet everyone beforehand. And you know,

1446
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:26,800
for such a quick kind of fast turnaround show, they still valued my input. We still got to share

1447
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:32,320
ideas even on, on set while the camera was rolling. And I was like, Oh, I'm so excited.

1448
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,520
Set while the camera was rolling. So it was really fun. It was really cool.

1449
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:40,080
Well, that's awesome. And just miles away from the gelato shop.

1450
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:46,160
That was my, I had, I had jobs during high school, but that was, I think I got that job

1451
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:51,760
this summer. Yeah. After I graduated school. Is there anywhere online that exists now?

1452
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:55,760
Those two episodes. Oh yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to do some stalking.

1453
01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:02,400
Oh no. I looked like Elle Woods. I loved it. It was so from Legally Blonde. It was so fun.

1454
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:07,120
I know they dressed me in like this, this kind of like rich girl. Oh, I love that.

1455
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:14,960
Like pink get up and I loved it. Yeah. It was really fun. Oh my God. It's so cool. It was cool.

1456
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:22,320
It was cool. One day you'll return. One day. Yeah. I'll come back as Kayla. Yeah. Just like,

1457
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:28,720
Kayla, I'll be like, I'm back. No longer a secret half sister anymore. I'm now the full half sister.

1458
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:35,840
Not so secret. Not so secret. Oh my God. But that's awesome. Thank you so much for joining me. I've

1459
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:42,720
actually really enjoyed this. Oh, I'm very glad. Bit weird, but so lovely to be here.

1460
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:51,040
Bit weird? Just to be, you know, to have this discussion. Yeah. To be interviewed. Yeah. And

1461
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:55,760
to have, just try and forget that the microphone's right there. Oh yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. It's like,

1462
01:30:55,760 --> 01:31:00,160
what's this? What is this microphone? I know. Just, just pretend it doesn't exist. That's what I say

1463
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:05,920
to everyone. So where can people find you? Because obviously, where can they stalk you? Oh God.

1464
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:16,480
If your Instagram is not obviously a bot, then you can find me on my Instagram. I might let you

1465
01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:24,640
follow me. Yeah. And yeah, it's just my name on Instagram. Otherwise that's, that's it really.

1466
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:33,760
I don't know. I don't know. I'm such a bad actor, aren't I? No. Bad millennial. Bad millennial. Yes.

1467
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:42,480
Bad actor. No. Oh my God. Maybe I'll consider making my Instagram. Just, just have a thing.

1468
01:31:42,480 --> 01:31:48,240
Have a mull of the next few months. I will. I will all have a mull. Thank you so much for joining me.

1469
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:51,920
Thank you. Thanks for having me. And if you want to go and check out more episodes of Things We Do,

1470
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,200
you can check them out on Apple and Spotify. I'll be speaking with another guest next week

1471
01:31:55,200 --> 01:32:12,720
and I'll speak to you all later. Goodbye.