This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental
health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.
Today I've got my special guest and friend Farron Bish.
Hello.
Hi.
So Farron, I'm going to ask you the first obvious question.
It's the hardest question of the day because everyone doesn't know how to answer it.
But I'm going to get you to tell the internet who you are and what you do.
Okay.
Let's knock her down.
All right.
I am Farron.
That's who I am.
What I do is I just float through life doing all kinds of things.
I don't know.
I'm a bit of a jack of all trades, master of very few of them.
I dabble in acting.
I've been known to write a few bits and pieces here and there.
Currently I'm a dog groomer.
Really?
So that's something completely different.
That's a very big current change.
I've been recording some songs lately as well.
Is it in a singing capacity?
I mean you could call it singing if you're being very open-minded.
But yeah, I've got a few musician friends and I've felt inspired to write something
because I think everyone has this dream that survived since we were kids of just being
like a rock star.
Right, yeah.
So it never died down for me.
I've always wanted to be a rock star and unfortunately I have no musical talent whatsoever.
No rhythm, can't hold a tune at all.
But I was like, I know people that can do those things.
So I'm just going to pretend.
So we wrote a few songs.
They did all the hard stuff.
Writing the music and producing and mixing and recording and all of that.
And I just wrote the words and yelled them into a microphone.
But they turned out pretty good.
I'm proud of them.
Are they anywhere?
Can people listen to them?
We'll see when I say I'm proud of them.
I'm a little bit ashamed of them.
They might be up somewhere.
Oh okay, so they might.
Perhaps under a pseudonym.
Right, so they're at pseudomonas moments there.
But that's been really fun.
And then I do a bit of arty stuff as well.
I like my collages.
I do some little devil scratchings here and there.
I do everything is the answer to your question.
I'm Karen and I do it all.
I mean that's extraordinary because I guess that's not something that everyone sees from
an outwards perspective, especially when you only do, people know you probably only for
acting or I guess that when you're kind of an actor your face is everywhere.
That's sort of the side.
Whereas when you're doing all these other things it's less in the forefront and more
in the seen but unseen.
It's my side projects I guess.
What kind of drove you into the arts?
Because all of these sound, even with dog grooming, it all sounds artistic.
You can actually say dog grooming is very artistic.
But yeah, I guess was it always acting starting or then writing or music?
Where did this kind of journey start for you?
I've just always been kind of more of a creative person rather than logical.
The logical brain.
Yeah, yeah.
I have been writing since I was a little kid.
My mum always tells me stories about how even back in year one teachers would come up to
her parent teacher interviews and stuff and be like, oh my god, she's got to be a writer.
She's going to be an author when she grows up.
Because I just would tell stories all the time and write little novels and all that
kind of stuff.
And then acting started quite early on as well just because I found a lot of joy in
it.
It always just seemed like this mystical, amazing profession that I wanted.
And then I don't know, I just kind of like to explore that side of myself.
I think I admire all of those qualities in other people, like the artists and the musicians
and I just want to be like them.
So I just try everything and I'm not really great at any of them.
But I just find so much joy in trying everything.
Yeah, because what do you do for your mundane job?
Is that the dog grooming?
The dog grooming is my mundane job.
Your mundane?
Yeah.
Your day to day?
That's the day to day's vlog.
Where did that come from?
Was it just your love for animals?
Yeah, I'm just an animal person.
I'm an animal chick.
I just have always loved them.
Especially dogs.
I mean, yeah, it's cliche but just dogs are the best.
And I always kind of wanted to work with animals as well.
That was another career I wanted as a kid.
I wanted to work in the circus as doing tricks with animals.
Can I just say that's the coolest dream for a kid to have?
Yeah, I mean, it's probably not very...
I mean, RSPCA would not approve of that.
But yeah, so it kind of has only really become a thing, a proper thing this year though.
I'm still fairly new to it.
But it actually came about because I was really struggling with acting stuff.
Wow.
So yeah, before that I kind of had a focus on acting.
Obviously, I wasn't paying my bills or anything.
So I was working in hospitality and retail and those sorts of jobs to kind of get me
by.
I've been in a massive slump really over the past year or so where I was just really struggling
to find roles.
I was spending so much time just working that I couldn't make it to auditions and things
like that.
So I just decided that I needed a proper career that wasn't pouring beers for people all day.
And so I thought what else brings me joy?
What else am I passionate about?
And the answer was animals.
And that was also a struggle as well because I was like, well, the people that work with
animals, they go to school for four years or whatever and get degrees.
But then I found just an animal studies course at TAFE.
And it was an accelerated course.
It was only over, I think, four months or something like that.
And you get your cert two and supposedly that opens you up to lots of careers.
And so I just kind of started doing that.
And as a component of the practical side, you had to find a job somewhere.
And I found a job at the dog grooming salon that I currently work at.
And I just loved it so much just kind of seeing that side of it, the grooming side.
It opened up a whole new world to me.
And I've just been kind of really, really finding a lot of enjoyment in it.
Oh my God, that's awesome.
It's really fun.
Yeah.
It's hard.
It's so much harder than you expect.
Yeah.
Like it's not all just, you know, bathing, giving little puppies bubble baths and things,
but it's really, it's challenging and I'm really enjoying it.
I think that, I think that, you know, if you're not a dog owner as well, if you've never dealt
with dogs, they have personalities like that, like all animals, every animal has a personality.
But I think with, you know, particularly dogs and their behavioural issues, depending where
they come from and stuff, I think it's, it's, it's also going to lay different because
I was a cat owner growing up.
So cats generally are pretty good at surviving.
Like dogs are the other hand, they actually go into fear more.
And you can tell automatically when they're scared of people or when they're like timid
or stuff.
And yeah, like I can't imagine bathing.
Like I've tried to bathe two different kinds of dogs and I know one like loved it and the
other one hated it.
So it's very interesting.
Especially when you need to groom them and make them look nice and you know, sort of
like, um, I suppose it's not just like, it's, are you cutting hair and you're trimming
hair as well for?
I'm doing kind of the basics at the moment.
So I'm still, they're still kind of training me up.
So I do, you know, I trim like their butthole hair and like around their faces and things
like that.
But I'm not doing like full, full body dog clips, like the poodles and things at the
moment.
Yeah.
With the big like puffball legs and things.
Not yet, but one day.
It's so interesting as well when you see those big fluffy dogs come out of salons and they're
like tiny because they're like their ratio portion is like mostly fur.
Oh, it's hilarious.
And then they're just like, like just tiny slim little things.
And you're like, where did all your hair go?
I do love that.
Cause like, I think my favorite kind of breeds of dogs are like Jack Russell's, particularly
which like a quite short hair.
But also I love cavoodles and you know, like Cavaliers are also gorgeous animals, but cavoodle
like cavoodles are very, particularly cute.
They're all the rage right now.
Everyone has a cavoodle.
I know.
They're so expensive, but they're so cute.
And yeah, like Maltese kind of dogs as well are so cute.
Like I just love like little fluff.
But you know, like I see like when you're an owner, especially like, you know, when
you're an owner of a low shed dog, where it's particularly like they need so much more grooming
than high shed dogs.
And then suddenly like, have you, do you now appreciate like dog grooming a lot more because
you worked in it?
For sure.
I do.
Yeah.
It's a lot grosser than you think.
Then you think you have to deal with some pretty filthy things quite literally.
And also it's, I mean, you're dealing with lives every day and not just, you know, dogs,
but like people's whole lives are in this little, this fluff ball and everyone cares
about this dog so much and they care about its fur as well.
So it's a lot of responsibility kind of taking care of this animal and making the fur look
good too.
But yeah, it gives you an appreciation of, I guess, how many different people and different
dogs there are out there because every dog, you know, like you were saying before, every
dog behaves differently.
Every dog has a different reaction to what's going on.
And every dog owner also wants something different and has a different reaction to how their
dog looks and how they want their dog to look.
Have you ever sort of experienced like the really difficult, like people come in and
you know, particularly like high demand?
Yes.
So the salon that I work at is in quite a fancy area.
So we get a lot of people that are quite demanding and one of the limiting things about the dog
grooming is that you can only do so much with certain fur as well.
And a lot of that has to do with how the fur has been taken care of before the dog comes
into the salon.
So sometimes a dog will come in and it's completely matted through and through and the owner,
you know, they're like, oh, I want the, I want two inch hair on my dog all over, blow
it all out.
I want like a teddy bear face, all of this.
And we, you just take one look at the dog and you're like, I'm sorry, that dog has
to be shaved bald today.
Like there's nothing you can do about it.
Because it turns into like a fleece, you know?
It's like the dog's wearing a jumper and it, um, it mats over the entire body and you
can't brush that out.
It's impossible.
It's like brushing a woolen jumper.
Like it's never gonna completely unravel it.
So it's, it's tough for us and it's tough for the owners, but it's even worse for the
dog, I guess, cause they're suffering with that on their fur.
But it can cause a few, a few issues with the owners.
I understand that it can be very heartbreaking for them, but yeah, it's something that people
I guess need to have an understanding of when you own a dog is it's more about the upkeep
of the fur rather than just dropping it off at the salon every two months.
I think it's like, it's particularly when I see Huskies and like, I love Huskies, they're
beautiful, but they're not designed for like summer climate of Australia.
Like they're just like walk like they're dying in the heat.
And I always get baffled when people don't cut Husky hair, like they don't take them
to salons, get really short hair cause it's so thick.
Like it is like that winter coat.
And so you just see people with like big fluffy dogs and you're like, you monster.
Like panting and drooling.
Yeah.
And I just feel like the worst person to look at that and be like, yeah, that's acceptable.
And I'm like, no.
Um, do you, did you grow up with a dog though?
Did you grow up with a family dog?
Oh, I did.
Yeah.
We had a Whippet.
His name was Spike.
He was so cute.
Is he no longer around?
No, this was a long time ago and yeah, he lived a good life, but unfortunately he's
not with us anymore.
When did he pass away?
Oh, I would have been, he would have been about, I don't know.
Probably about 10 years old.
Wow.
That's, yeah.
So it's, that's a pretty good life.
Yeah.
He passed in a traffic collision.
Oh, that's, that's the worst way to go out.
It was pretty heartbreaking.
Oh, that would have been the worst for your family.
That was terrible.
Have they got a new dog now?
Um, I have a dog now.
Yeah.
I have my little, my little bit.
So he's like a bit of a Maltese, Shih Tzu, cross with something else.
I don't know what.
Like a Bichon?
I don't know.
I think he's got like a bit of Schnauzer in him.
Oh, cute.
He's a weird little guy, but he's my, he's my son, my little baby.
He just had his, his 10th birthday this year as well.
So have you had him for 10 years?
I've had him.
Yeah.
Since he was just a pup.
Yeah, his name's Dali.
He's very naughty.
Is he?
Like, I mean, he's a good boy, but I like to tell him he's a naughty just to keep him
in check, you know?
That's cute.
I mean, like, what is, do you find now being like a dog mom and in particular, like just,
you know, working in a salon, you're kind of more appreciative of like what you do for
your own dog versus what other people do?
Yeah, especially because Dali is a terrible dog to groom.
He's, he, I lied before, he's not always a good boy.
He's a bad boy.
When it comes to grooming, he, he just can't stand it.
He like snaps and growls and he's awful, just the worst.
But I mean, I guess looking back on it now, now that I know a bit more about grooming,
I think that's partially my fault.
Really?
Cause I think, I mean, I've learned this off of the more senior groomers and everything,
but I guess the best way to stop a dog from behaving like that is to start grooming a
lot earlier on and kind of condition them to it.
Yeah.
I was quite young when I got Dali, I was like young and naive, so I just kind of treated
him like a little baby and just like carried him around and let him get up to mischief.
I didn't, you know, brush him out and condition him to like being touched by all these different
people and washed and everything.
So now I think I'm paying the price for it cause every time I try to brush him, he's
like snapping at me.
Little shit.
I mean, like that's always the thing as well and I always noticed like when dogs don't
like having baths or it is conditioning.
It is a lot of like conditioning behavior.
I think it's also like ignoring dogs.
I found like particularly we were fostering this, we were fostering this gray hand and
Emily and I couldn't like work out why she wasn't behaving certain ways.
And Emily's brother Mark was just like, just ignore her when she does, she wants to play,
you know, at certain times and it's not play time.
I just train her to know now's not the time and she'll sulk, but then she'll be fine.
Like let us sulk because it kind of, she knew she was a, cause particularly with like grey
hands and if you own a grey hand, they're the most clingy dogs ever.
They'd love to not be alone.
So they always like, if you get a greyhound get to like always recommend cause they, they're
kind of like creatures that love company.
So with that, it's like, if they have company, then you can kind of lay for hours and they've
got each other so they can kind of like chill.
But yeah, it was a lot of the time if we, we did this theory where we went upstairs
into the loft, which is where our bedroom is and left her down here and she just started
barking to where we were and moping and then just slumped to the floor for like 10 minutes.
And then suddenly when she heard a noise, she started barking again and we're like,
okay, cool.
You know, if she's alone, she can cope, but it was like, yeah, she just, she loves company.
She's not very good at just being left to her own devices.
So it was one of those things that I think you do learn with a particular breeds that
they do require like certain conditioning.
And I think it's also like important.
And I think this is like a, I guess an adult thing you learn later in life, especially
when you've owned animals and stuff as like what you were saying, you know, you're naive
when you first get a pet, you know, especially when you're young and you're kind of like,
oh, this is like a nice little play thing.
But I think you learn the temperaments of like animals and the legs.
Do you think when you get another pet later in life, do you think you'll sort of like
go into it with a lot more training?
Yeah.
Well, at this point, I can't imagine another dog beside Darlie.
Yeah.
Like he's my forever dog.
But also I think, yeah, I have much more of an appreciation of training now.
I think I did a fairly good job of training Darlie.
He is ultimately a good boy.
He follows my orders.
He doesn't, you know, do all those bad dog behaviors.
He's pretty good.
He's great around my nieces and nephews, little kids and everything.
But I think, yeah, looking back, it's when you get a dog, it becomes your full-time job
to determine how that dog is going to be raised.
And I think it's a job that doesn't really stop either.
It's something that you kind of have to continuously work on throughout that dog's life.
But I mean, ultimately it's up to you what happens to that dog and how that dog reacts
to the world around it.
So I think it's really important to kind of stay on top of that.
And it takes a lot more work, I think, than most people assume it will take.
And I think it's something that you've seen a fair bit lately in these past couple of
years after all the pandemic pups have kind of been growing up.
Because a lot of people have gone out and purchased these dogs.
Because like you were saying, they're cute and it's like company.
They think it's just going to be like a cute little teddy bear that they can like tote
around with them.
And you see them all now they're kind of developing into adult dogs.
And they've all got these weird little behaviors and traits.
It's things that you could have easily trained out, I think, when they were pups.
But I guess, I don't know.
It gives you a lot to think about.
But in saying that, yeah, there will be no other dog besides Darlie.
He's the best.
I always love that as well with dogs.
You get really super attached to them.
I always feel like that with pets, to be honest.
Because I remember when my cat, he was 19 when he passed.
So he lived an extraordinary long time.
I don't know what breed of cat he was.
He was just kind of like your standard house cat.
No one ever knows with cats.
Cats.
They're just cats.
But I remember it was sort of my decision.
We had to end up, unfortunately, just putting them down and everything.
It was kind of a sad decision.
But I do think that when we sort of did our goodbyes and everything, I remember my parents
were like, we'll probably get a new cat one day.
They haven't yet.
But I think it's probably one of those things that I think once they're a bit older, they
might get a cat to kind of live with them for a bit.
Because I think they like pets.
They like animals.
And I think they like looking after.
But 19 years is a long time to also have a...
Because they got him when my brother and I were little.
So I remember being, I think I was six years old or something like that when we got him.
And running around five or six and just thinking he was the bee's knee, this little thing.
But then get really annoyed that he wouldn't want to play certain things or play with...
So it's interesting when people go, oh, my cat likes to play with toys.
And I'm like, my cat didn't.
I'm like, none of that.
He didn't give two shits about any of that.
So I have a very much cat that liked to kind of sit and lie down and sleep and then play
with actual living things, which was very odd.
So we had like...
But now he's no longer around.
I think it sort of made me really appreciate when I see cats as well and dogs and animals,
they do create that special bond.
You do sort of see that someone loves them and someone's looked after them.
But I also get very...
I do think it's interesting because you talk about the pandemic dogs as well, pandemic
owners, particularly.
And I think I love and hate someone with a fiery passion because when I see that people
have bought them and especially with traits and stuff that they haven't weaned out of
them and is that play thing, I become very judgy.
Because I guess for me, especially when I've fostered a dog and I babysat two different
dogs.
I've had three dogs in this house since living with Emily and we've sort of gotten an idea
of what behavioral things that can come across.
And when I see that people just ignore behavioral issues, I'm like, why?
It's sort of very bizarre because I feel like most dogs, especially like most dogs can be
socialized and very easily come to be less aggressive, especially when they're thinking
that someone's going to attack them.
You can train it out of them.
But a lot of people, when they don't understand the training involved or they don't bother,
you can sort of see a lot of bad traits like some dogs don't know how to play.
So they just bark at other dogs.
And especially like height difference.
Like if you've got a big, big dog and it's trying to play with a little dog, you've got
to understand that little dog is going to be terrified.
So you might think, oh, it's just playing.
It's like, no, you've got to understand that your dog needs to learn how to play with little
dogs and how that might affect its personality.
And the little dog might be more scared and more timid.
So you see a lot of owners pick up little dogs when they see big dogs coming.
And I love little dogs.
I love big dogs.
I think the nicest time was when one of my friends and I, we went out and walked out
their cousin's dog and there was this big, massive dog.
And this little dog was like down to here, it was like a bulldog kind of thing.
And those two just started playing.
And she was like, the bigger dog was like a little, you know, like a youngish sort of
dog, but they knew how to play together.
And she knew how to play with a smaller dog because she wasn't using her full strength.
I was like, this dog has learned how to play and they're just tossing and turning and mucking
around.
So this was very cute to watch.
And the owner was lovely.
It was like, oh, you know, most of the time people don't know how to play with her.
They sort of just go, oh, she's scary and she's big.
And he's like, she's fine though.
She's so friendly and she'll just like want to hug you and lick you and stuff.
And so she's this beautiful dog, but it is interesting when you sort of, I guess, get
these assumptions, especially of dog owners and dogs and like particularly that most big
dogs aren't that bad.
It's the ones that, you know, like definitely like greyhounds are weird because most people
think they are aggressive and bark.
They're actually not.
They're the most placid dogs.
They're so chill.
They're gentle.
Yeah.
But it's sort of like funny because I feel like people associate big animals with danger.
And it's, you know, you must see that all the time with grooming.
It's like a lot of these big dogs and little dogs come in and they're very similar.
And some dogs don't know how big they are.
So that because they've never sort of had that exposure, they've never been like, oh,
this is my own breed or, you know, like, cause you know, like what's your thought on all
that?
Like, especially with dog personalities and owners that you see around.
Hmm.
In my quite limited experience, I think I've mainly seen kind of the opposite problem.
Most of the big dogs that come into my life are fairly good at interacting with other
dogs and other people, especially children, because I think most owners who get a big
dog are aware of the fact that they're going to have a big dog, you know?
So they start that kind of conditioning and socializing very early on.
The bigger problem that I've seen is little dogs that absolutely lose their shit when
they see a big dog.
Out of, you know, fear.
So they'll just start barking and growling.
They'll try and climb you to get away.
I think that's another thing that could have very easily been trained out of them by just
introducing socialization a lot earlier on.
But I think also in saying that, like, I don't want to come across as too judgmental, like
you raised your dog poorly.
But like, I think obviously that's going to be a big problem for pandemic pups, because
how do you socialize your dog in the middle of lockdown and all of that?
So I think it's a really common problem for dogs that are now one or two years old, or
these little dogs that have never really, you know, had the opportunity to go out to
the park or go to puppy school or wherever.
I think I definitely agree with that.
I think that, you know, when you haven't socialized a dog, or at least had its exposure to different
sized dogs or anything like that, and especially little dogs that need to get used to big dogs
because they do exist and you've got to co-exist.
You can always tell which dogs have never really left their comfort zone.
And I think it's, I see it a lot around Blackwater Bay, which is near where I live, and we walk
that route a lot, and you do see a lot of the little dogs have never had the big dog
exposure.
And it's very interesting because I think it's really good that they get that exposure
young, like when they're puppies, or just do it slowly.
It's like the interesting thing is the same thing as cats and dogs can live harmoniously.
It's very easy.
You just expose a therapy, and one of the friends who now adopted the greyhound, they've
got a cat as well.
And the owner was very concerned that Rosie would be very against Boston the cat.
And it just took exposure.
They put them between a fence so they could smell each other and over time get used to
the fact that you two have to live together.
This isn't a choice.
You just have to exist in the same vicinity.
And it was like, okay, cool.
So animals do get used to it.
They just have to get used to the smells, the behavior, or it's little things.
And once they're used to it, they just go and forget about the aggression and the toxicity.
I guess as owners, you kind of create a fear barrier because they're trying to protect
you.
They're thinking, oh, I must protect my owner against this giant animal.
But in reality, it comes from a responsibility we as people to be like, well, how would I
feel if I was this animal?
What would I be thinking?
Probably that they should get used to it.
It's always funny because I love when some owners I walk past and they go, oh, yeah,
my dog's a wuss.
Just gets scared by anything.
But you always do wonder, especially with rescue animals and stuff.
And I love rescues.
I think they're the best kind of dogs because they come with a whole bunch of personality.
But some of them have come from traumatic backgrounds.
So it's like a lot of them have been abused or mistreated.
So when you do see those traits and they do get scared or they do lash out, remember to
make them feel safe because that's going to reassure them not to do those traits.
And it's going to make them feel more at ease and not feel like they don't have to be on
the defense.
And it's very easy to do because once they get out of that phase and they sort of realize
that everything's very normal and that's their routine and their life, they sort of mellow
out.
But yeah, I feel like when people just ignore that and tell your dog to shut up or something,
it's like, don't match loud noise with loud noise.
There's so many psychological things that I keep looking into, especially because I
watch two seasons of The Dog House.
Great show.
I've never heard of this.
It's a Channel 10 show.
It's so good.
And it's all about the fact that people go and get rescue dogs.
And it's so sweet because some of the dogs, especially big dogs against little kids, I
think is great because you grow up with different kinds of animals and different kinds of like
... I particularly like small dogs.
Small dogs are my thing because they're so cute and fluffy.
Like, Em likes big dogs or medium sized dogs.
So we're kind of like, if we would ever own a dog, it would be like probably a bit of
both.
We'd probably get a small dog and a big dog.
Because we just like animals, but you do kind of see that I think when families do come
in and what they love about animals and what they love about dogs, you can kind of see
that it does come down to that.
You know, like, oh, dogs just being friendly.
And dogs do kind of not always warm to you immediately.
It's like, it's sometimes they're immediate and then sometimes they're slow.
They're like, I'm going to sniff you, then I'm going to leave you alone and sit in my
corner until I know it's safe.
But I've had my sniff.
I think it's okay, but I'm going to remain here.
And if you approach them, they're going to be more scared.
You kind of just got to let them do their thing.
Let them control the situation for sure.
Do you find that now as an owner for 10 years?
Like, what was Dali like when you first got him?
Like, what was he like?
He was very chill as a pup.
I remember picking him up in the pet shop.
Sorry about that.
Feel bad about that.
Oh, no, don't.
Oh, I think I got my cat from a pet shop.
I think it wasn't even from a rescue.
It was back in the day, you know, we didn't know.
We didn't know what we know now.
But yeah, he was there with a brother and a sister in this pet shop.
And they all looked the same.
And I was getting a puppy.
It was as a birthday gift from my mother.
But I didn't know which one to choose.
And so the girl that was working in the shop, she was like, let me get them all out.
And you can, you know, sit on the floor and let them run around you and see what their
personalities are like.
And of the three of them, the brother was just hyper, running everywhere, jumping everywhere.
The sister was very, very timid and kind of just sat very far away from me, wasn't interested
in coming up to me.
And Darlie, I remember just like, yeah, came up, gave me a little sniff and then just started
like walking around the shop, just looking at stuff.
I didn't like it as if he was shopping.
And I was like, that's the one for me.
I like him.
He came and said hello.
And then he was just off on his own.
He's beautiful.
And then I think that's kind of been his personality his whole life.
Like he's friendly.
He loves people.
He loves other dogs, but he'll come up and he'll say hi to you, get his pats, get his
treat if you've got one.
And then he'll just continue on his day.
Like he's just an explorer.
He just wants to know what's going on everywhere.
He'll go around, have a little sniff at this, pee on it.
Go over there, pee on that.
How often, like, do you take it, when you take him for walks, how often does he pee
on things?
So he will, he is a perpetual peer.
Really?
He'll stop at every tree and pee on it.
And he'll keep lifting his leg even after like the tank's empty.
He's just got like phantom pees.
But it's just all in his head that he's like, I'm peeing on this tree right now.
There's nothing coming out, but he's convinced himself all the way home again.
And I have to drag him home.
He would walk for hours if it was up to him.
Hours and hours and hours.
He's unsatisfied if the walk lasts less than an hour.
Really?
Yes.
He gets the shits and he like pulls on the lead.
If I start taking him home, he gives me this look.
Wow.
He's like a marathon walker.
Do you feel fit when you take him for walks?
I mean, not, it doesn't feel like exercise though, because we have to stop every two
meters so he can pee on stuff.
It just feels like we're meandering on through life.
Isn't that the truth about dog walking?
It doesn't actually feel like exercise.
It feels like a long just like meandering.
Yeah, you just have to stop and then go and then stop and then go.
How big is he?
He's about the size of a regular house cat.
Oh really?
So just like, you know, quite hand.
Like quite short and, but long body, I guess.
But like shorter legs.
So like mini legs, like little stumps.
Pretty stumpy.
Yeah.
He's quite bow legged as well.
He stands like a ballerina with his toes pointed out.
That's cute.
He's a very cute boy.
Yeah.
I mean, like, yeah, I always find with, you know, particularly when, you know, dogs like
to go for a walk and stuff.
Yeah.
But I think it's completely different when we were babysitting Eddie, who, um, just a
little fluff ball.
Yeah.
He'd get tired after 20 minutes and just flop.
And just go.
Did you have to like scoop him up?
Yeah.
You can't carry him.
It's like, but it's really funny because with Rosie, the, um, the, she, the Greyhound,
she would want to walk for like hours.
And they were like in the description, they were like, nah, she likes 20 minute walks,
like two 20 minute walks a day.
We're like, nah, fuck that.
Like she, she would go for so long.
Um, but yeah, same with Sam.
Like Sam would, we babysat him and you know, like I remember the owners were like, no,
he's only going to poop once a day.
And you know, it's probably need like one or two walks.
We took him for so many walks and he pooped so often.
And we're like, you are not pooping just once today.
He's putting on a show for you.
Yeah, I know.
But it's always funny as well because like, um, I learned, I particularly now with sort
of looking after dogs for a month, I learned of traveling poops where they sort of like
poop and then they walk a little bit and then poop again and then walk a little bit.
Spread it out.
Like a masterpiece.
Yeah.
I'm like, what is wrong?
Why can't you just sit there and not shuffle?
It's not as exciting.
Yeah.
Have you ever like, you know, taken Dali for a walk and just like, does he do like normal
size poops or is he, is he an epic pooer?
Most of the time they're pretty proportional to his size, but then every now and then,
you know, once every couple of months or so he'll just surprise me with like a massive
log.
And I'm like, darling, what have you, have you been storing that up?
What is this?
What have you been eating?
He, he would keep me on my toes.
I was, I was my favorite though is like when they pick up in your hand and you can't exactly
take a couple of handfuls with the poop bag.
Yeah.
You're like scoop one, scoop two.
Why not throw it out?
It's a luxurious life being a dog owner.
Yeah.
I think it's like, um, I've only ever once like left a poop behind.
I know I was, I was, cause I didn't have a poop bag and I didn't think the dog had any
in him.
Like just had leftovers in the tank and I was like, why?
Why?
That's when they'll get you when you don't have a poo bag on you.
Yeah.
And then like surprise.
I got to do shit.
Bye.
Did you feel guilty?
I did.
I think I went back later and collected it.
Oh, legend.
Yeah.
But I think it's always my favorite in winter is when it's like a steamy one and you see
the air coming off it.
I don't know why that's so satisfying as like a dog sitter or a dog owner is like just watching
me like that's a healthy poop.
You did good today.
I think it's something that you gain an appreciation for after, after having experience with dogs,
you know?
Do you think, do you think that like, are you, are you particularly like a person who
wants to have a family though?
You, or are you very much happy with like being an auntie?
I'm an auntie.
So you're through.
Yeah.
So you're, you're kind of like the dog mom and the auntie.
Yeah.
I don't see myself having children.
I like that you used it like it was a dirty word.
You're like, children.
Yeah.
No, I love them.
I love kids.
They're great.
I just don't want any of my own.
That's a hundred percent fair.
I mean, you know, what's your enjoyment about like, you know, looking after your nieces
and nephews though?
Oh, we just play together.
I'm basically a kid.
I think that's why I don't think I'd make a very good mom.
And I think my nieces and nephews, they're all under seven years old, so they're still
little babies, but I think they've got it in their heads that I'm a kid as well.
So they get, they get so excited when I come and visit and we just play the entire time,
imagination games, running around, we play with their toys, we make up songs, all of
it.
Cute.
And it's adorable, but it's bloody exhausting.
I don't know how parents do it the whole time.
Criminal.
Yeah.
Do you see yourself having children?
I do.
Um, I didn't for a while though.
Like I, I will kid you not.
I didn't for a while.
And I think it's kind of like lent out.
Um, you know, what, you know, it helps because I met someone who I want to have kids with,
want to start a family with, but I think definitely if you haven't found that right person, there's
so many things that I say, never say never, but then I'm also, because I know ironically
that's what my parents told me and they were like never say never.
Um, but I definitely think my mid twenties, I was like, nah, no kids.
There's a lot of things I want to do outside of having kids.
And I definitely want to be an uncle before being a dad myself, like a trial run.
Yeah.
Like a trial run is your child back.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, it's, I also do find like kids are handful as well, but, um, it's, it's particularly
interesting because it was always like that dynamic of, I love the idea of having kids
and sort of taking them to, you know, things and stuff.
I get that level of enjoyment out of life.
Um, but I also, you know, and there's so many things I want to do.
It's like, you know, that incentive, um, to be like, you know, but I don't think it's
really interesting because it's like, I don't think I'd ever really leave the creative industry
or, or, you know, the arts world when I have kids, cause I think it's so exciting and interesting.
And I think a lot of people, when they have kids, they sort of think that that's the end
of their artsy career or, you know, their life.
And I'm like, not necessarily.
It really depends.
Like if you, if you want that, you know, cause I think like we live in this, you know, we
have, I always say there's like, you know, 7.8 billion people or 7.6, something like
enormous, um, number of percentage of people on this planet.
And a lot of children are born in various circumstances that, you know, might not have
parents that want them or anything like that.
And I think it's very interesting that, you know, whether I adopt or, you know, Emily
and I adopt or have our own biological killeds, I think is a discussion, but I definitely
know that we, you know, that we opened that very early on, but I've definitely, you know,
like dated people who never wanted kids and were like, nah, from the get go.
And I'm like, I think at the time I was like, yeah, that's fine.
You know, not worried about it, but like, I don't know, it really depends on the person.
It really depends on your life circumstances.
And you know, if I don't have kids until I'm 40, I'm fine with that as well.
I don't think it really matters.
I don't think there's a life, you know, the ends when you have kids.
I think it's just a different stage.
It's I feel like people, um, yeah, it's, it's very weird because I
definitely think that, you know, the conversation I hear a lot at the moment, especially with
people that don't want kids is they think that life ends when you have kids.
I'm like, it definitely changes, but I don't think it ends.
I don't think it's like, only if you let it, I think.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I don't know.
I, I, like, I, I couldn't give you a solid answer to be like, yes, no, you know, maybe
it really depends on what life brings, um, as well.
And you know, I think that's like part of the excitement of life.
Um, but yeah, like I do like looking after my cousin's kids.
I do like that aspect.
They're great.
Um, you know, and seeing, watching them grow into, you know, adults now, like one of them
has just turned into a teenager and I'm like, oh Jesus, this will be an interesting time.
Um, yeah.
And it's just, you know, and, and they've discovered, you know, more things about themselves
so much younger than I did.
Like they're, you know, they've, they've acknowledged that, you know, they're queer, that, you know,
like this is who they are.
And I think it's very interesting that kids did that so, you know, early when you just
turned 13.
Yeah.
And, and like, yeah, I'm a 30 year old and I was like, I'm still discovering who I am.
You know, you're very determined at 13 to know who you are.
Like do you find with, you know, your nieces and nephews that they've made decisions so
much earlier than you probably do about yourself?
Um, I mean, they're still very, very young.
So I think that their sense of self is still kind of only just in the early stages of becoming
a thing, but I can definitely see them maturing in other ways way, way faster than I expected
them to.
Yeah.
It's just kind of scary and intimidating, but like also quite exciting at the same time.
And I don't know if it's just because it's been so long since I was a child, but sometimes
I'm like shocked at how much they know about the world already.
And it can be quite confronting as well.
It just puts them into perspective.
I think like how, how quickly that all happens to children.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's really fun to watch them kind of becoming tiny little people.
Cause did you, did you growing up, do you find like, what was your biggest revelations
during your teenage year?
What did you sort of go, this is me and this is my identifying features or like know yourself?
What was your big turning point?
Um, interesting question.
So my biggest kind of discovery about myself, I think that when I was a teenager, I think
that's when I, that whole truth about kind of what other people think about you doesn't
really matter.
It kind of became, became a thing for me because I, beforehand I was very kind of concerned
with what my peers thought of me, what the teachers thought of me and what my family
thought of me.
And I think when I was kind of like towards the end of high school-ish kind of area, it
kind of dawned on me that I was like, Oh, well they might think, you know, bad things
or not very flattering things about me.
And that doesn't really matter that much.
No.
Um, do you, do you feel like now, especially as an adult, you know, that people, I guess
like not underestimate you or, but do you feel like people sort of like don't know you
or, or, you know?
I think people overestimate me.
No, they're like, they know, they think I can do this.
I think I can do things.
I can't do.
Um, I think people do, I think I do surprise people sometimes.
I think, yeah, people that think they, they know me, they don't know me.
Secret enigma.
Yeah.
I have, um, a very kind of broad range of interests and, and I think, I don't know,
I guess I'm trying to say like, you can't pin me down.
Yeah.
You can't, you can't tell me who I am.
I think people think that they, they know me fully and then, but they never really do.
I mean, that's good.
Isn't it?
Because it's like, it means you can walk through life because especially like, you know, you
know, it goes back to that.
What are your interests and what, you know, you know, particularly everything.
Um, I guess a lot of people kind of associate, you know, especially, you know, like women,
I think in particular to pin, you know, always put them into categories of like you're like
this and you're like this and you know, this is, this is the lifestyle and this is like
the things you need to do in life.
And you're just very much like, yeah, whatever.
Like cool, throw it to the wayside and you know, just do you.
Um, but you know, like you did that all on, you know, like on your own as well.
Like, you know, you, you've decided to do this all sort of like, you know, life choices,
you know, cause you live, you live currently on your own.
I do.
Yes.
And that's kind of not something that most people, especially, you know, I guess most,
you know, I know a few women have done it, but like, it's not very common, um, as a choice.
I think it's insane that though, I think it's, it's, um, not very common just because I
think it's in the area that we are in Sydney.
It's quite impossible actually.
And it's, it's almost impossible for me as well.
But I think a lot of people would actually choose to live alone if it was financially
viable for them to do so.
Oh God.
Yeah.
I loved it.
I lived alone for two years.
It was great.
Yeah.
It is the best I must say.
But also I think you're right in that it's, it's a fairly new kind of idea, I guess, for
women to like move out and live on their own, move out of their parents' house and live
by themselves or, or, you know, with a share house of friends.
Yeah.
Rather than moving in as like their, their bow or whatever, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, I think for me as well, I've always broken the norm.
I lived with, um, I lived with two friends first off, um, when I first moved out and
then I lived with another friend and it was just me and her, um, together in, you know,
one sort of assumed we were dating and we weren't, we just like had two separate bedrooms
and slept in two separate rooms.
Like it was just very platonic.
And then I lived on my own for two years and then I moved in with my partner.
So it was very much like, I didn't ever live the rambunctious, like, you know, share house
life.
I don't think I've missed out.
I don't think I've felt like I missed out, but it is interesting because I feel like
when I moved in by myself was during the pandemic, like, so I lived in this nice tiny apartment
and I loved it.
And I sort of got very used to having that lifestyle of like, this is safe and this is,
you know, very easy.
Um, but yeah, it was interesting now.
Like, yeah, it's funny sort of seeing that now because like, yeah, I, I, I, the only
reason I miss that place is because it was like just such a memory for me.
And you were sort of remember when you live alone.
I don't think it's like, cause how long have you lived alone?
Probably around two years now, two and a half, I think.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it's great.
I, you're like, no one changes.
I just really enjoy my own company.
Really?
Yeah, I do.
Um, and I think it's just so wonderful having a space that you can well and truly be yourself
without any fear of anyone's judgment.
And you can kind of let yourself be without, you know, putting on some kind of front for
anybody.
Do you, did you find it difficult moving from living on your own to moving in?
A little bit, but not in the way that I would have thought.
Like it was completely like, I think the thing I like is it's sort of, I think the only thing
is working, like focusing on work and actually getting stuff done.
It's sometimes a little more difficult than I get and give it credit for.
But, um, cause you know, like living in your own feels like you have your own office space
and you can kind of do anything at any time.
But I do, the thing I do love about living with, especially with a partner is like you
do come home and you've got, you know, your best friend there and everything.
But also the thing I loved about living on my own was also the fact that when I came
home, I didn't have to see anyone.
Like, and it's interesting as well because I'm very introverted.
I like my alone time.
I love just watching TV, chilling, doing, doing nothing is how I get my energy and all
reading a book.
Like it really fluctuates.
And I think that a lot of the time, you know, like I would go and see people and then after
two hours I'd be like, yep, done.
You know, like I'm out, I'm chill.
Uh, it's why I never stayed late at parties as well.
I think when I lived with three people, like two other people, that was the most difficult,
I think living wise, um, was because there was, there was one too many people.
I think I could only live with one other person.
So when you add that extra layer, cause I think it's the way my brain's wired.
I just, if I don't have a moment alone, at least some point, I was like, my bedroom's
my only safe haven.
Um, but because I'm a massive DVD and Blu-ray collector, I had all of those in my room because
there was nowhere to store them in the living room.
So they would come into my room to grab stuff and watch it.
And I was like, never felt like my, like any room of the house was safe to just have me
time.
Um, but I did also have the biggest room, like the bedroom of the house.
I see you won.
I did win in terms of size.
Um, but man, it was such an old apartment and it was so warm.
It was so hot.
Like it had no aircon.
It was the worst.
Uh, does your place have aircon?
No, no.
So I guess my, yeah, the worst downside to my place is that it gets freezing cold in
the winter and boiling hot in the summer, but it's a small price to pay.
I think.
Yeah.
And I do, I spend a lot of time.
I mean, I, I've been going on about how much I live.
I love living alone, which I do, but I spend a lot of time outside of my home as well.
I do like, I'm quite introverted in that.
I really like you.
I need my space to go to, to kind of like retreat to, but I also, I really enjoy spending
time with other people and going out and doing things and being places and going to work
and going out to the park and all this kind of stuff.
So I think, yeah, my, my little, my little abode is my little battle.
It's like very much just my, my retreat for when I need to, when I need to recharge.
Yeah.
Do you feel like now that you're getting older as well, like you need to recharge more often
than you?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I've, I've been appreciating.
Yeah.
Just a quiet night with a book, a lot more in my older age.
There's not as many like, let's go out to this gig that doesn't even start until midnight
and a lot more like browsing through my library and like, what shall we read?
Jane Eyre or something.
Yeah.
Very, very, very, very astute with Jane Eyre.
I like that.
Very classic literature.
Actually, what's your favorite books?
What is, what is?
Well, I do like my classics.
I have a vast library.
I'm a bit of a book nerd, to be honest.
I love that.
But my, I was actually talking about this to someone recently cause I was asked what
my favorite books were and I narrowed them down to three and they're all war stories.
Wow.
That's very specific.
I didn't intend for that to happen, but yeah, I really like Slaughterhouse Five.
Wow.
Okay.
I like, well, all of Vonnegut is just amazing.
I love Catch 22.
And I love this book, Everything is Illuminated.
I don't know that one.
Yeah.
Not many people do, but I recommend it.
It's a great read, quite confronting, but incredible story.
And it's kind of, it's got a few different settings.
It jumps around a little bit, but it's largely set in World War II.
But yeah, that was an accident.
I didn't mean for that, but apparently I like war stories.
I can tell.
But war stories, I guess that are a little bit satirical rather than like, yeah, go to
America or whatever.
Catch 22 is a kind of very bleak slash interesting look at, you know, survival.
Yeah, I like the dark humor for sure.
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting because I'm more of a like, I love novellas.
I love like short stories.
One of, oh God, like one of my favorite books.
I've read, I love Neil Gaiman.
I'm a huge Neil Gaiman fan.
I've read various different core lines.
So I've read his graphic novel of it.
I've read the book, I think, which I loved.
It's a great kids book.
It's not even really a kids book.
It's kind of like a teen book.
It's got a lot of like dark elements to it.
I think those are the only two adaptations actually.
The comic was great.
I can't remember where I got it from.
I think it was like in Canada.
And I also read the, and then I saw the movie, which was the reason I fell in love with them.
But I love Neil Gaiman.
I'm also a big fan of Dracula.
Bram Stoker's Dracula.
I love that to the nth degree.
I think it's also because it's like very mistold, it's one of those books that I think
it's actually-
I've heard that.
Yeah.
It's adaptations are nothing like the book.
It's the same with Frankenstein.
Another one, Mary Shelley's adaptations are actually nothing like the book.
It's very particularly, really weirdly different.
Really?
Yeah.
So a lot of classic literature, like you think Jekyll and Hyde and Frankenstein and Dracula
would have been told properly, none of them have been really adapted properly.
Because they're very fundamentally quite grounded stories.
They're all about how people deal with situations and how they deal with monsters and everything.
And I think a lot of, like Frankenstein, Victor Frankenstein is just an idiot really in the
book.
He is actually just a moron who makes a monster and then just regrets all his choices once
he's created a life and he goes and runs away.
I remember reading it, it was many years ago, but I just remember reading it and it felt
like reading the diary of some melancholy teenager that was like, what have I done?
My life is miserable.
And then he's like, the monster is actually really intelligent and just goes, make me
a wife, make me a companion in life.
And he's like, oh!
It's really interesting because I guess everyone remembers the Universal, like the Universal
Monster movies and everything like that, and that's what people remember were the stories.
Then you know, like Jekyll and Hyde ends up with Dr. Jekyll actually ending his own life
because he doesn't want anyone to be a victim of Hyde.
So he just goes, you know what?
I'm the problem behind everything.
So if I do this deed, everyone's going to be safe.
And I'm like, there was a great video I watched, which is online somewhere.
I can't remember the title of it, but these great historians, one's a historical channel
and the other one's about fiction.
And they both analytically talk about it.
And yeah, the end thing is he's like, this is the only scientist in any book that actually
takes responsibility for their actions.
I'm like, wow, that's actually quite true.
Because basically he just doesn't go, oh, fuck it, I'm going to let everyone die.
He just goes, no, I can't deal with it.
But I think it's like all the adaptations show it as a tragic hero kind of, or a tragic
story.
Or it's completely different.
But I think you've got to remember that these stories are about people who have made mistakes
and whether they own up to their responsibilities or the responsibilities come down and hunt
them down.
That's the point of Frankenstein's monster.
The monster is very clever.
It's a human basically.
It's just presented a body part.
So it's going to go after its creator to be like, you know, you've done this, take responsibility
and help me live.
So yeah, there's a lot of ambiguity.
But I also do love stories that really like, I'm currently reading Stephen King's The Mist,
which have you read that?
No.
Is it creepy?
It is creepy.
It is like very unsettling.
It reminds me a little bit of H.G. Wells.
Him as a writer, and I often think this, H.G. Wells and Stephen King are very similar just
in certain aspects of how they see things.
And I think it's like, all I remember is H.G. Wells, what is it?
War of the Worlds.
Great book.
I just read that.
It's great.
I love it.
Although it's really weird.
I struggled with it.
I only love it though that the opening scene is literally a guy in a tree just going and
hiding for ages.
The world sucks.
What did you dislike about it?
I, okay, controversial opinion, because I know that it's obviously just probably his
best known and best loved book.
And I've been reading a fair bit of H.G. Wells recently.
And I think that one, War of the Worlds, was maybe the third or fourth one that I read.
And I loved the other ones that I read.
I was like, these are great stories.
They're captivating.
War of the Worlds, I just found that it was, the narrator was just kind of spent the first
maybe 14, 15 chapters being like, oh, the horrors, the horrors, they're coming.
The Martians are coming.
And he didn't even describe the Martians for like 14.
I was like, who?
Who's coming?
Tell me about them.
I want to know what's going on.
But he just kept talking about the big cylinders that landed.
People start dying because they've got like heat rays or whatever.
So everyone just starts running away being like, oh my God, they're coming for us.
And it took a long, long time to actually get to the heart of the story.
Yeah.
It's probably not like the-
It's a slow burner.
It's also like The Invisible Man, which I feel like-
I loved that one.
I feel like that's a slow burner as well, but in a different way.
I guess so, yeah.
I love that you loved that.
I found it really funny.
It made me laugh out loud.
It's pseudo-science is hilarious though, like how it works.
And he's like, oh, I'm fragmented of light.
And I just loved the attitude of The Invisible Man.
He was so scorned and even though he did this to himself, and then he spends the entire
book being like, fuck you all, I'm invisible, this sucks.
But then he gets beaten up and-
Kind of playing tricks on people.
Yeah, he gets beaten up by a mob at the end.
Yeah, well he deserves it.
He's an asshole.
Yeah, he is.
Didn't the invisibility just make him go mad as well?
He just kind of was driven-
Oh, is that part of it?
I thought he was just a bad guy.
Yeah, I thought he was just a bad guy.
No, I think it was also the fact that he couldn't be seen kind of drove him a little bit nuts.
I feel like that would have added onto his frustration.
I mean, yeah, it's one of those things.
It's a double edged sword.
He can get away with a whole lot, which he does.
But then also, no one can see him.
No one sees him.
No one really is.
Are you a big horror fan?
Or are you kind of like a-
I'm a scaredy cat, but I like horror.
Interesting.
But I spend most horror movies and things with my eyes closed kind of shrinking down
in my seat.
I love that.
If you want a recommendation of any sort of story, The Woman in Black.
I've heard good things.
I love that.
The movie's okay.
The play is fantastic.
And the book is also great.
It was a book first, then it was turned into a play, and then it was made into a movie
with Danny Redcliffe, which is just very weird because it's clearly him just out of Harry
Potter.
Straight first roll out of Harry Potter and just look at the entire film and go, Harry
Potter.
Victorian.
But yeah, it's this great story about this house that is haunted by this woman.
And you sort of look at it through, and I think the play adaptation is really quite
scary as well, because I remember there's this scene where a lot of the time he's talking
to people and then you just see this figure of the woman walk around the set and you're
just unsettled by her existence.
And I think it's-
That's really cool.
It's so cleverly done.
It's hard to make a live performance scary.
Yeah.
I've seen two live performances, scary ones, and that was one of them.
The other one was, I think, an amazing, I think it was Swedish or it was Russian.
I can't remember.
It definitely wasn't an English production, but it was this amazing production they'd
called Horror, and it was sort of like this movement piece.
And the entire thing was movement.
There was no dialogue.
And it was just really unsettling because they were just scenes that suddenly were just
encapsulating moments where it was body contortion and stuff like that that this one of the
actors could do.
And I just remember sitting there and just going, it's the score.
It's the, you know, like everything down to the performances and, you know, like the live
on set, like, you know, body parts that were flying around.
It was like really unsettling.
But they were just scenes that I was like, oh my God, this is just like really, like,
I was thinking about the next day and I was like, God, this is actually quite creepy,
like to see real.
And I think that's more unsettling than watching in a movie.
And I'm like, sure, sure, sure, sure.
Like I'm sure these people are dead.
But yeah, when you see it on stage, but like, I definitely also think that the wonders about
books is you can always like the translation, you can describe things and I think they're
more scary in your head than they ever could be like in real life.
Of course, because you're putting your own, you're making it into what you're most scared
of, I guess, subconsciously.
Yeah.
Like, are you, do you think that you prefer books over movies?
Um, hmm.
Asking you a good question.
Hmm.
Can anyone say that?
Depends on adaptations, like adaptations are books.
Let's be specific adaptation.
Oh, okay.
Well, then books are always better than movie adaptation, I guess, because, you know, it's
they're more personalized.
Like you said, you're, it's your, it's what's in your mind.
You know, you get to picture a book exactly how you want it to be.
And also it just gives a lot more room for room to play, I guess, like a movie can be
very limiting within like time and budget and performance and all of those factors,
obviously.
Whereas if you're reading a book, it can be anything you dream of, you know?
Yeah.
So it's clearly war time for you.
Apparently, apparently.
I just want to be a little soldier.
I do want to bring us back to acting as well.
So acting is something you still want to pursue like long term in life, do you think?
Or is it kind of like something that's taken the backseat these days?
I mean, it's currently sitting in the backseat, but it's still there, you know, tapping on
my shoulder, you know, backseat driving.
Like it's, it's, it will always be my first love, I think.
Yeah.
It will always be the thing that I go back to.
But it's just hard, really.
It's a cruel, cruel world out there for actors or want to be actors, I guess.
So I think it's, it's something that I still always come back to.
Yeah.
I guess these days it's more of just like a hobby kind of thing rather than a career
pursuit, I guess.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
I don't know.
It is something that I've always loved and will always love, I think.
Forever and always.
I mean, that's, that's awesome.
Do you feel like now though, is it, you know, that it's, what do you think is particularly
harder now that the older you get?
Um, find, A, finding roles that fit me and B, finding the time to pursue those roles
and other, other acting world things, I think, because yeah, these days I've got bills to
pay and I've got like, you know, rent to pay and I've got family things and, and my other
creative pursuits and work and everything.
It just makes it hard, I guess, sometimes to, to find the time that's needed to, to
commit to it 100%.
And then also, yeah, I guess now that I'm not like 20 years old and like young and fit
and hot, like it's harder to find roles for myself.
Yeah.
But.
I mean, I bet you were like young and fit and hot, like it was, like that only happens
when we're young.
Well, well, for some of us.
I mean, do you, do you feel like also though, that you, you know, get older and then suddenly
you just feel like roles kind of shrink for you of what you can do?
Yeah, in my, in my experience, yeah, I've had my kind of opportunities limited a little
bit lately, as opposed to when I was, yeah, kind of fresh in the game.
What roles would you want to play?
Like, what are your ideal roles?
I mean, I love everything, but I guess I'm pretty much always lean towards more like
comedic roles.
And I like things that are a little bit surreal and absurd as well.
You like comedies?
I like comedy.
Yeah.
I'm always more into theater as well, I think.
Really?
Like I like everything, but I've, I've got a love for the theater.
Yeah.
And I think at the moment there's, yeah, not a lot out there from what I've seen for me.
Yeah.
Is that anything particular that you think sets you apart?
Yeah, I'm just really cool.
I don't know.
I think I can bring things to the table.
I'm sure you can.
I mean, like I do think the theater industry is particularly like very clicky probably.
Like they like working with the same people all the time.
But yeah, it's interesting that you talk about like auditioning and like finding the time
to do things.
There's a mosquito buzzing around.
It was, it just flew by.
Yeah, I always find that quite interesting because a lot of the time it's either you
take 50% of your time to make it into the industry and make zero profit and burn more
money than you do.
But I feel like it's like, it goes back to like, you know, a lot of other podcasts and
a lot of my friends who run podcasts we talk about regularly as well is what kind of defines
us and what makes us.
And realistically, it's probably like, I always think it's interesting when people talk about
like, oh, my youngness appeals to the creators and stuff.
I feel like, you know, natural aging and being an adult and you know, like, we very much
limit people, don't we?
Very early on, we're like, this is your box and this is forever where you will stay and
you will never leave it and that is fine.
But as you know, people we constantly evolving and changing and you know, like in 10 years,
15 years, we won't be the same people as we are right here right now.
We will be different.
But that's okay.
And I feel like when we sort of go for roles and when we sort of like see there's so many
different characters that are able to be made and you know, particularly like that.
And I feel like a particular, you know, do you feel like people try, especially with
theater, like trying to always put you into certain roles or, you know, or do you want
to be like a bit more other other types of roles?
I think I, um, looking back, I think I get cast quite frequently as like two things,
mainly.
I've had some great roles and I love them all, but I usually get cast either as the
dumb blonde or like the damsel in distress.
Right.
And great roles, super fun, especially the dumb blonde.
That's a, that's a really fun one to play around with, but it can be quite limiting,
I think.
And I think there's not really a lot else out there.
I think I'm in a bit of an awkward age at the moment where I'm at the end of my twenties
and I'm too old now to play like the young hottie, as I was saying before, the leading
lady, you know, and I'm too young to play the mom, which is one of the other big roles
that are out there for women, I guess.
So I think I'm just kind of in that awkward, awkward middle area.
And obviously there are some great, great roles out there, but it's when there's, you
know, 500 other ladies like me also auditioning for the role, it can be a bit kind of brutal.
I think it's interesting as well because I feel like you sort of grow to a point where
like, you know, as great as those roles that you've done in the past, you kind of go to,
I want to do other things and you want to do those like more challenges.
It's interesting that you sort of mentioned them other things as well, because yeah, we
are, we are about that age where we're suddenly like, well, we're not young, we're not spring
chickens anymore.
But we're not, you know, parents.
We're old people.
We're not old people.
We're old-ish, but not old.
And I think, you know, it's interesting because, you know, especially with this year as well,
like, you know, I just turned 30 and I was like, oh, okay, my metabolism is really slowing
down.
I've got to do a lot more things to kind of like stay healthy and stay fit and, you know,
at least be well off.
And it's interesting, like that mentality when, you know, my early 20s, I was like,
I don't have to do jack shit to kind of stay like this hot and this amazing.
Now you need to do all the work.
And I think it's sort of like, it's interesting when I see people younger than me, like, especially
when they're in their early 20s and I go, this will not be forever.
Like you kind of have to, you know, I understand what my parents were saying.
Suddenly it all hits real.
Yeah, you really do.
But I think as, you know, it's also part of the reason that I think, you know, roles are
now expanding, especially, you know, for people like you, you know, in your position, because
there are many roles that didn't exist.
But I think the whole, I think the way Hollywood puts it and the way, you know, especially
Australian industry put it is very limiting.
They kind of always try and put everyone into boxes.
And I think that's the damaging side of especially young performers and performers like us or,
you know, platforms like us, because they're like, oh, unless you're like Oscar bait, you're
not, you're not worth investing in.
And I think that's really interesting because then it's like, you know, you only see the
same five actors in all the drama roles and everything, you know, no one has any opportunity
to really grow as performers because then they're cast into side characters that have
like one or two lines rather than, you know, get to be in like, you know, a recurring character
or, you know, like something like that.
And you actually get time to explore and learn, you know, and put more focus and challenge
yourself.
There's none of that now as like they used to be.
You either crack the seal and get the right role or that's it.
Like is that frustrating to you?
Is that part of the reason you like you put it on the background or as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
Like it's one of those things that if you could just get that one role that could kind
of, yeah, propel you a little bit further and give you the opportunity to showcase your
skills, I guess.
Yeah.
Then it would make everything a whole lot easier.
If you're, if you're just perpetually going to auditions for roles in, you know, small
roles in web series and things and commercials and things like that.
It can be really kind of disheartening, I guess.
And it makes you kind of question like, oh, you know, what am I doing this for?
Like is it ever going to be?
Am I ever going to get to do the things that I really want to do?
Yeah.
Do you think, do you think you'll eventually be able to do them?
Do you think there's opportunities that you'll be able to crack into?
Is that that spark never?
I mean you can't give up hope, you know?
As soon as you give up hope, you lose.
You're done.
So I think there's always going to be that push that like, you know, maybe I'll get the
role of my dreams one day, I'll get to like play around with it a bit more.
But I think as of late, it's more, my mindset has kind of turned more towards I'm going
to have to make that role for myself.
Yeah.
And yeah, put on my own production, I guess, rather than, than being in someone else's.
Isn't that the way it's like, you know, we get into this point where we're like,
we've either got to make our own thing to crack it because no one else is going to invest.
That's it.
It's very interesting because I feel like, yeah, and I don't think there's any right
or wrong answer, you know, because I don't think I've gotten to the point where I've
been able to crack it either.
So not telling anyone that.
But it's interesting because people like automatically think I've made it like, they're like, oh,
you run a podcast, you know, you do all these things.
And I'm like, I barely like, you know, have made it.
I guess in my mind, I'm sort of like still trying and, you know, trying to do all these
things.
And it's really interesting because I don't think, you know, as people, we're always trying
to look for perfection and, you know, satisfaction.
But I think as artists, we're always kind of go, it's impossible.
Like, you know, and it, you know, like, it is impossible.
Like, I don't think I'll ever truly be satisfied with everything I've ever done.
But, you know, that's, that's part of life.
It's sort of, you just got to be content, like, and just deal with it.
Like, it's, it's, it's very interesting.
And I think it's probably also a reason why I made a lot of my own stuff as well, because
I was like, I'm keen to see people that I know and stuff, you know, like, let's make
it because it's kind of where the fun is.
And if I'm not always working with the same people, I'm working with a bunch of different
people.
It's really fun.
It's really challenging.
It's, you know, it's a bit unique.
But yeah, when we all sort of live into this sort of like cocoon where everyone's like,
oh, I need to be a serious actor.
And I'm like, well, you are a serious actor, but you know, like, you can also have fun
because this whole industry is meant to be fun.
And the moment you sort of like, oh, no, I have this conversation regularly.
But I think when you take it so seriously that it doesn't become fun, stop doing it
for a while.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it's got to be fun.
It's life is too short to stress day to day.
Otherwise, yeah, it just becomes another job, I guess.
Yeah.
And then as soon as you start kind of doing it for the for the love of it, then I think
that's I guess that's the only reason that any of us kind of got into this industry in
the first place.
Like no one's like, oh, you know, I've got to pay my rent.
So I better get a job as an actor.
Like, we do it because it's fun for us and we love it.
And yeah, yeah, as soon as you you're not having fun anymore, then that's that ruins
it for everyone.
Yeah, and it's time to take a step back and and not reevaluate reevaluating and rethink.
But I think I think it's admirable and awesome how much stuff you make.
I think it's crazy.
I mean, yeah, it's a little bit crazy, but it's really cool as well.
And I think I yeah, I think that's the way to go to just make your own stuff, because
I don't I don't know, do you feel like you've got more kind of control over?
I think so.
It's very trial and error.
I think I've learned a lot.
It's very stressful.
I will admit that I think wrangling is probably the most stress.
But I think what I love particularly is like the day like when you get to make something
or you're filming something or you're recording something like that day, once that everything's
there, it's great.
Like it's the best feeling.
Organizing all that is the most stress inducing thing.
It's like hours and hours of prep.
But yeah, like this, I don't think I've ever stopped.
I think I've like there was something about me when I was like 11 years old.
And I remember I was 11 or 12.
I was making a short film with my dad.
And I've done that ever since like I was a kid.
I got a, you know, a camcorder and stuff like that.
And I've just done it ever since I was a kid.
I've always just been like, okay, cool.
If no one can help me, I'll go and do it by myself, like kind of thing.
And you know, it's that it's that mentality of not trying to let anything stop you.
And realizing it goes back to that thing I was saying, which is perfection is impossible.
Like it's like nothing I make will be perfect.
As long as it's fun for me though.
And I think step away from a project when it's no longer fun.
Like there's a few stories that I worked so hard on it and I haven't abandoned them,
but I stepped away from them because I was like, this isn't funny.
Well, this is a lot of stress.
So I'm going to come back to these maybe in a year or maybe in two years and then rework
on them.
Like, you know, like give yourself a break because everything's got to be fun.
Everything's got to be enjoyable, especially when you're not always making money from
it.
Like you're kind of like, you've got to realize it's a hard industry to crack and I'm not
here to crack it.
I'm here to enjoy it while it's there and live my best life doing it.
You know, whether that means I, you know, have to do a full-time job elsewhere to make
ends meet or anything else.
Like that's my mentality.
That was really cool.
I liked that.
I mean, it's, it's, it's the way I feel like people need to go as well.
And I feel like, but I also, I always say that, you know, no idea is dumb and you know,
and anyone's idea is like clever and smart.
And you know, you might not always see eye to eye, but I think that passion and drive,
you know, is one of the funnest, like is the only thing that keeps us moving forward.
And I think it's like one thing that I just never go, Oh, you know, like something bad
will happen or someone will be like, Oh, I can't do this.
Or, you know, like, um, someone pull out or something and I'll stress me.
And then, but I'm like the next day I'm like, Oh, cool.
Let's sort this out and deal with it.
I'm very like always that mentality of never letting something define, you know, that particular
moment.
And I think that's the only way you get things done because if you constantly beat yourself
up about something that didn't go the way it was meant to go, you're never going to
get anything done.
You're just going to self deprecate and self focus and do you want it forever?
It's a, I mean, like, yeah, I think, I think that's the only thing, but I also think that,
you know, like, um, like, look, you know, this year I've got a few other things that
I want to do this, this year.
I mean, like, it's not even 2023 yet, but by the time this comes out, it will be 2023.
But yeah, like in that year, I plan to do some more stuff and you know, like, I might
be like, Oh, Hey, Farron, you want to come on and do this when you've got time.
You know, be like that.
Cause I always like, like working around people's insane schedules.
It's like, and whenever days are free.
But yeah, it's like one of those things that I always just think, what do people want to
do?
What do they like trying to negotiate and stroking to?
That's my mentality.
That's really awesome.
Do you, do you see yourself kind of continuing down this path of, of making content, making
content?
I hope so.
Hashtag content.
I hope so.
Yeah, cool.
But I mean, like, it's like, it's like yourself and other people who come on, like the podcast,
I initially thought it would go for six episodes.
Now it's gone for a year, a year and a half, two years.
So it's like, I've been recording since 2020, so it's nuts.
So yeah, like there's no real end.
Do you, do you feel the same though?
Do you think like you need to start making content now?
Like, or with the stuff you make, do you think you're, you know, with the music, do you think
you'll stop like just after you've done some recording or do you think you keep doing it?
No, I think it's ignited something in me.
I love that.
And I've got like so many ideas just swirling around inside me that I think need to find
their place in the world.
So I think it's, it's definitely something that I just want to begin pursuing.
Whether or not it actually goes anywhere is, you know, I'll leave that up to chances, but
like, I don't know.
I think it's worth taking a shot at it and giving it a go.
Can I just say, I absolutely, a hundred percent am backing you on this.
I think I love, I love that.
That's so much like enthusiasm to see where the chaos brings you.
My album will drop in 2023.
Oh really?
I don't know.
I'm putting it out there.
Maybe that'll inspire me to.
I'm holding you as that quote.
Sure.
Put it, put it out there.
Put it as the tagline for this episode.
Done.
Oh my God.
I'm going to use this as a perfect point to wrap this up, Baron.
But I will say I have loved this chat.
Such an enthusiastic and lovable person.
Thanks.
Now my first question to you before we wrap up, where can people stalk you?
Where can they find you on the internet?
The best place is probably my Instagram.
It's at Yuck Disgusting on Instagram.
Follow me there if you want to see pictures of my dog and other things.
Why is it called Yuck Disgusting?
Everyone asks that.
Honestly, I don't know.
I don't know.
That's just maybe what was going through my mind at the time.
But it's stuck and I'm Yuck Disgusting.
That's who I am.
I love that.
But no, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
It's been a blast.
Amazing.
And if you want to go and check out more episodes of The Things We Do, you can check them out
on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later.
Goodbye.
Bye.