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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend all the way in Melbourne, Alice Miles.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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How are you today?

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I'm great.

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How are you?

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Good.

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I'm well.

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I'm feeling very busy and disorientated.

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That's always the way to be, I think.

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Just a little bit of chaos as a treat.

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I think I'm going to ask you a very hard question off the bat.

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Oh, please.

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And I think it's going to take you by surprise.

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I'm going to get you to tell everyone on this sweet, sweet internet who you are and what

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you do.

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Okay.

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I realised on the way over here that this would be the one question that I knew you

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would ask me and that I should think of an answer and I still didn't.

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But yeah, so my name is Alice.

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I am a screenwriter.

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I also occasionally am a script supervisor and a production runner.

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And yeah, those are like my main three things.

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Yeah.

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I mean, which came first out of all of it?

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Which was the first thing?

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Screenwriting for sure.

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It's always been like my end goal, like my dream job, basically.

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And then script supervising was a bit of a fluke.

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Oh really?

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A very, very happy fluke because I love it.

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Oh, that's nice.

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Yeah.

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So it's like one of those things that like kind of just randomly happened and then I

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didn't know what it was when I signed up for it and then I fell in love with it.

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So yeah.

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Yeah, because you script-survised Reminent?

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I did, yes.

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How did you get that role?

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How did that kind of happen?

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Yeah, see that it was like a massive fluke.

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So like, I think it was like, it was a Facebook group or like Mandy or something, but they

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initially were asking for unpaid production runners.

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And I kind of stuck my hand up for that.

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And then had like a Zoom interview with them.

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And then in that Zoom interview, I mentioned like I'd done script coverage at uni and that

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I would be happy to do like some script coverage for them because I just wanted to read the

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script as well.

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So, you know, yeah, so I got that, did the script coverage and then they read it and

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I guess they liked it because they were like, would you like to be script supervisor?

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And I was like, yes, before I even knew what it was.

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I was like, it has to have script in it.

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So yeah, it must be a valid job.

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Yeah.

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But now that I've done it and like I know more about it, like I actually think it's

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less to do with script and screenwriting and more to do with editing.

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Yeah, it's a very edit-heading job.

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So if anyone doesn't actually know what script supervisors are, their continuity and manage

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a lot of like script notes.

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So yeah, it's a laborious job because, but it's also a great job because it means that

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you are something that I love, which is an editor's best friend.

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And if you get something wrong, the editor either loves you or hates you.

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It's a very like fine work.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I definitely felt like, because it was my first time doing it, I felt a lot of pressure

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to like make the editor's job easier.

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But I did kind of strike out because the editors were like the director and the DOP and the

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producer who were all on set every day.

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So it was like, you know, going to them and like showing them my notes as I was going.

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So it's like, you know, I wasn't fucking up too badly.

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Oh, that's great.

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Hopefully.

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I mean, like with this set as well, like, you know, it was such a, like it felt like

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I've, I don't know, maybe it was just my interpretation as well.

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But from an outward perspective, it was a very like female orientated set.

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Like there was just a lot of main characters or like background people who were women on

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it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I know like over half of the cast and crew were women.

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So that was very cool.

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Yeah, actually, what was I think the coolest thing for me actually in the pre-production

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stage, because I did do like quite a bit of coverage for them, but there is one of the

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characters in the film is queer.

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And so I got to give notes specifically on that.

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And then that changed like some how the like character acted in the film.

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And that was really cool.

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It was such a little thing, but I'm like, I had a little input in that.

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That must be really fun, especially as like someone who was queer to be like, this is

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how you portray this.

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This is how you don't portray this.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it was just like, like really minor things as well.

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Just like, you know, little touches.

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Also, like very specific because it was like small country town girl who like was queer

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and went to the city and then came back home.

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And I'm like, that's me.

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I did that.

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Oh my god.

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Did you, did you feel like this, this story was just speaking to you at this point?

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Well, I hope not.

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It is a horror story.

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So let's hope the things that happened in that movie don't end up happening in my small

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town.

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I hope that would be nice.

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I mean, like the funniest thing also is like a lot of queer narratives have that, you

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know, level of horror.

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I always feel like, you know, it's either a very romantic love story or a horror story.

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There's no like a science fiction or like a Western queer story as much.

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Do you find that the case?

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Yeah, which is a tragedy.

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I'm a big genre writer and all my other stuff I write is like very genre heavy and very

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queer heavy.

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So I love that.

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That's like where I like to operate.

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Like what's your favourite, like when it came to writing as well, what's your favourite

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genre to kind of like steer into?

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Oh gosh.

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I think horror probably first, but then like sci-fi is a second.

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But also I think all of my stuff is like primarily coming of age as well.

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So like that's kind of the three things that I write about like in that area typically.

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I love that.

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You've suddenly become one of my favourite people by all those three genres.

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Oh my gosh.

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Because I'm a massive nerd.

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Same, yeah.

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Big old nerd.

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But do you ever find, especially like when, you know, identifying as queer and you watch

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people who are very straight trying to write queer characters and you can kind of just

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be like, huh, you clearly don't know.

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Like they always tell it from a very hetero, normal point of view.

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Yeah, I don't think Remnant had that problem specifically because like I think the character

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in that movie, like Kate, she's queer but her story is mostly about her friendship with

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Grace.

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So it was like very female friendship oriented rather than like romantic, sexual kind of

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oriented.

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But like I do find in other stuff, like yeah, I've noticed, you know, you can just tell

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when it's like a queer writer who's writing it, it's just got like a certain flair to

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it.

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And you're like, yeah, like they get it.

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Yeah, they know what's up.

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They know how to deliver.

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And I think like the same can be said for like all, you know, content that is made by

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the voices of like the characters.

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Like when it comes from like personal experience, you can just tell like it just yeah, it has

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that thing about it.

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Yeah.

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I think it's also like, you know, when I watch like queerbaiting shows or you know, if anyone

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knows me and how much of a massive fan of Doctor Who I am.

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Ha, Doc You, yes.

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But it's always really funny when like that show tries to queerbait and you can always

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tell when it's written by very straight people and I'm like, you don't know quite what to

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do with these characters.

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And you know, there's a lot of controversy over like same sex kisses scenes in that show

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as well.

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Like it can't, it's because it's a children's show and we can't inflict children on anything

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other than heteronormative like facets.

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But I do think also like, you know, with shows like that and especially with like, you know,

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shows going forward, there is a massive problem, I guess, with how that functions and how like

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we sort of see it going forward as you know, like properties and stuff.

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Is there any shows that you loved and then you're like, this hasn't like aged well because

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I guess it's not as true to what it should be?

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I've definitely fallen victim to like queerbaiting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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It's hard though.

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I think the stuff that like has queerbaited me is stuff now that I retroactively look

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back on it and like, why did I ever think that they would give me queer content?

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Like I was, I was a massive Marvel fan as a teen and I was like so certain that they

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were going to give us like canon queer content.

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And I'm looking back and I'm like, they were never going to do that.

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Like, I just, um.

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I mean, Miss Marvel, let's be real, like she's close.

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She's, she's about as close as it's going to get.

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Literally, like I saw every time there's a new like movie or show, they're like, this

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is the first time we've had this queer moment in it.

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And it's like, like you're barely passing.

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Like, yeah, they just saying I'm queer is not enough for me to be like, they're queer.

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Exactly.

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They're definitely queer.

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Yeah.

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There's like a difference between just like saying your character is queer and like actually

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having your character live like a queer experience and like depicting that accurately, you know?

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But I mean, like I was, I was the same as like, I think particularly with my sexuality

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and everything, when I did see characters that I related to, particularly like guys

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who were kind of like more feminine and then masculine and all that stuff.

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And also like, you know, like bi and everything, I was kind of like, this is perfect.

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You know, this is, this is me.

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But then immediately they would do something.

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They were like, yeah, bro, mate, you know, dude.

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I'm like, well, that's not me.

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That's about completely the opposite.

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Yeah.

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Or like, yeah, you'll watch something.

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And it's like, they have a very obvious like queerbait moment that is like for like Tumblr

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to consume and like turn into a gif set.

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Yeah.

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And then the rest of it is just not that.

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And it's like, yeah, we're just being baited so bad right now.

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I know.

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And it's, and it's like, I realized something recently, which I think is like astounding

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and probably like part of my childhood, which is always the thing that I noticed as an adult

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now, which I should have noticed as a teen.

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And I don't know how well that was until like, like now that all the content I watched as

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a teen and I particularly like my, you know, 12 to 18, all these people have come out as

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queer or trans or something.

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And I'm like, this says a lot about me.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, yeah, my Twilight fixation makes a lot more sense now that Christian Stewart is,

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yeah, I know.

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It's like, oh, um, this makes sense.

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Like I used to binge, um, Charlie is so cool.

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Like, and Charlie is, if anyone follows Charlie is so cool.

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Like they've come out as trans and I was like, when I found that announcement, cause like

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she'd been dead on the internet for like probably about four years, no one had heard a pee from

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her.

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And then she was just like posted this random Instagram and I was like, holy shit.

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Like yes.

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I told one of my friends that I was like messaging them just going, I am so excited.

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Like what is this?

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So yeah, it's like a surreal, like bait and switch, you know, like, um, I feel like things

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that I, you know, particularly were very normal and you know, like sexuality is such a spectrum

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now that in modern TV shows, we don't like, you know, don't really hit all of them.

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And, but then you have like shows like heartbreak high and you know, it's, it's like, I get

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those shows existing, but I have one little gripe with them, you know, cause like sex

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ed did it first is, is the, is like the, the mainstream Netflix dramas, but heartbreak

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high, I do like that they listened to their actors and what they had and then they adjusted

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the script accordingly.

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The other downside though I have is how much like, are we cramming, you know, like into

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a show, which then my, you know, like where does it like work and how does it fluctuate?

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Cause it doesn't like as a coming of age story, I'm it works, but I'm like, as an adult, I

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want to watch adults in those situations where they're still learning about themselves and

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that doesn't happen.

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What I get is drama shows that have nothing to do with that.

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Yeah.

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I loved heartbreak high.

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Um, I thought it was fantastic.

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00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,280
I've been to this weekend.

241
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:46,280
Oh, did you just in a few days?

242
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,280
Yeah.

243
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,760
It was like, I stayed up, I think till like three AM and just like watch the whole thing

244
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,520
in one go and I was obsessed.

245
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,680
Um, but yeah, you're so right.

246
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:58,440
Like there's like kind of this expectation that you're coming of age is like in your

247
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,280
teen years where it's like, you know, like I'm still figuring things out.

248
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:02,840
I'm still discovering things about myself.

249
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,640
And like, I feel like that's just an ongoing process, but yeah, it's kind of expected that

250
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,560
you get to a certain point and you know who you are.

251
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:14,000
And like, yeah, that kind of like, uh, finding your identity phase is like not explored as

252
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,960
much in older content, which is a bit of a bummer.

253
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:18,960
Yeah.

254
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,760
Cause I mean like, you know, when did you know it like inside that you were like, this

255
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,760
is who I am.

256
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,480
I know I'm, you know, I'm queer.

257
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,240
When did this happen for you at what age?

258
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:38,240
Mine is like my journey with my sexuality was like very fluctuating because I came out

259
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,720
as a lesbian in high school.

260
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,920
Um, and then like went to uni and then came out as bi.

261
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,760
And then recently, like in the past year, two years or so have realized that I was right

262
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,720
when I was 16 and actually a lesbian.

263
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,600
So that was a fun little journey for me to go on.

264
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,720
And then also recently, I think like lockdown kind of forced everyone to be a bit introspective,

265
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,680
but like lockdown, I thought a lot more about like gender and pronouns and stuff.

266
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:13,720
So I changed my pronouns from she, her to she, they.

267
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,400
But that's, that's subject to change.

268
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,040
Like I feel like I'm kind of just experimenting with, with that at the moment.

269
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,160
I love that though.

270
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,120
That's like the only way to live.

271
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,080
Like you, you know, I, I, I was sort of like in a similar boat to you, but I was definitely

272
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:34,920
like, I had the heteronormative like shove of, um, the late nineties, early two thousands.

273
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:43,380
So my, my era of torture and torment, um, was like, I think particularly like this moment

274
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:48,800
where I was like, oh, okay, I'm, I'm definitely don't like boys, even though I find them very

275
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,160
attractive.

276
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,560
I don't like men.

277
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,520
No, that can't be a thing.

278
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,560
So I go away and I would still wonder why I'd watch shows and be like, that guy is very

279
00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:59,560
attractive.

280
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,400
Like why is that a thing?

281
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,960
But I also like women.

282
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,240
What does that mean?

283
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,140
So I'd always like think about these things.

284
00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:10,760
And I think when, you know, like I dated enough people and they were like, you're clearly

285
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,760
bi.

286
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,320
You know, like this is the flags are very like obvious, but you know, like, you know,

287
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,160
then, then other labels kind of kept coming up like pansexual, like, you know, asexual

288
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,160
and stuff like that.

289
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,660
And I was like, Oh, I don't know where I fit into anything.

290
00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:28,360
So I kind of like over-panicked.

291
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,760
Um, and, and, and like, I went through my like hair dying stage when I was like 18,

292
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000
you know, like I, I missed doing it.

293
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,240
I haven't done it since I was like 26.

294
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,960
Um, how often do you dye your hair is my question.

295
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,080
It is currently like a strawberry blonde and it needs to be dying, but it is so dead at

296
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,080
the moment.

297
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:55,040
Um, I think I've gone through like three or four different colors.

298
00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:01,560
Um, but I'm, I'm really pushing it because she's, she's struggling.

299
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,760
She's like, I can't keep holding this.

300
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,040
Like I will die.

301
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,040
Yeah.

302
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,000
I was like the other day, like, Oh, I could die at balloon.

303
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,800
I'm like, I actually don't know if my hair would survive another dye.

304
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,280
So I don't know what I'm going to do.

305
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,860
What's this space?

306
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:16,860
Watch this space.

307
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:17,860
Watch this podcast.

308
00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:18,860
You can clearly see it.

309
00:16:18,860 --> 00:16:19,860
Yeah.

310
00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:20,860
Yeah.

311
00:16:20,860 --> 00:16:21,860
Watch this audio medium.

312
00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:22,860
Yeah.

313
00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:23,860
Audio medium.

314
00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:31,000
I mean, like that's also like one of the things that I remember, like I have gone red, I've

315
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
gone blue.

316
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,400
I've gone, you know, yellow.

317
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,760
I've gone, um, aqua.

318
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,480
I've gone black.

319
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,200
Black was the weirdest thing because I do not have the voice to fit black.

320
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,080
Like cause what I always imagine people like, you know, with black hair is they have a really

321
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,440
gravelly like deep tone and I'm like, no, no, no.

322
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,920
I can, I can email kids like tumblr scene era kind of thing.

323
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:53,920
Yeah, I know.

324
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,920
Um, but I mean like, you know, it's, it's, I think as an adult, it's like, I stopped

325
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,300
dying it when I was like, yeah, when I was 26 and I just, you know, it's expensive.

326
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:05,300
It's expensive.

327
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:06,300
It is.

328
00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:07,480
I don't know why I DIY it.

329
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:08,960
I never go to a salon.

330
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:09,960
Really?

331
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:10,960
Yeah.

332
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,320
But that's why it's so bad because this is really embarrassing for me to admit because

333
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,960
I didn't realize that some of the box dyes had bleach in it.

334
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,360
And so I was dying my hair and I was like, why is it getting so brittle?

335
00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,080
Like I'm just putting dye in it.

336
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,440
Um, and it's because there's also bleach in it.

337
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,920
So I like bleached my hair like three times in one week.

338
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:31,920
Oh my God.

339
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,120
What are you doing to your poor hair?

340
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:40,320
I think I am like gearing up for a big chop, like just hacking it off and going from scratch.

341
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,360
Um, I think it's literally the only way forward for my poor hair.

342
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,920
Do you think you'll ever go like, you know, super pixie cut?

343
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,520
I have in the past actually.

344
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:51,520
Really?

345
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:52,520
Yes.

346
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,960
Um, and that was a lot of fun, but, um, I totally like underestimated the upkeep because it's

347
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,920
like those like cool pixie cuts you see on like Instagram, they don't wake up with their

348
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:01,920
hair like that.

349
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,240
So that's a solid half an hour of like styling.

350
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,240
Oh yeah.

351
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,240
Yeah.

352
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,480
Which I was not prepared for cause I like, I'm a kind of a get out of bed, um, and then

353
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,880
walk out the door and the next five minutes person, I'm like, I will leave at the last

354
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,880
possible moment.

355
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,840
And so adding an extra half an hour to my routine was just not happening, but you know,

356
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,560
maybe in the future we'll see.

357
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:22,560
I love that.

358
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,280
I love that you're totally brutally honest.

359
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,040
You're like, nah, it's roll out of bed.

360
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,220
I just, I know myself too well.

361
00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:31,040
Is that what you were like on set though?

362
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,680
You just rolled out of bed and, and just bang on time.

363
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,680
Oh, I don't know if I was bang on time.

364
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,640
There was like, I can be to set on time.

365
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:49,360
I can be to set five minutes late with a coffee and yeah, there were a couple of times where

366
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,280
yeah, I was walking on set late with a coffee in hand.

367
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,680
Um, especially like, I think like the start, because it was my first feature film, like

368
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,080
the start I was like, no, I need to be there early every single day and then you get to

369
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,320
week five and I'm just like, I don't even know what time is anymore.

370
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,760
Cause you're like doing five, six days a week anyway, with like barely any rest.

371
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,360
We were doing like six days a week.

372
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,640
It was so much fun, but like I look back now and I'm like, how did I do that for six weeks?

373
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:16,640
Yeah.

374
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,920
I mean like I'm impressed that, you know, cause I imagine the film was like an hour

375
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:20,920
and a half.

376
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:21,920
Yeah.

377
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:22,920
I know.

378
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,920
Yeah.

379
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:24,920
It was like around a hundred, it was 119 pages.

380
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,920
So like, yeah.

381
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,520
So like, you know, roughly 90 to a hundred minutes.

382
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:28,520
Yeah.

383
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,520
Give or take action sequences or anything like that.

384
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,600
That's not, but you know, like, are you excited for when it comes out?

385
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,800
Yes and no.

386
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,560
Yes, because it's going to be a good film, but no, because I know so intimately all the

387
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:48,960
continuity mistakes that are going to be like, there's just like, I had this moment on set

388
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,960
where I was like, I decided that, cause I don't know if you know this, but on IMDB there's

389
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,640
like a continuity errors thing and just the thought of someone watching the movie and

390
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,160
putting in the continuity errors, like actually was stressing me out so much that I just decided

391
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,160
that I would do it when the movie came out.

392
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,040
I would just beat everyone to it.

393
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,000
And then everyone just reads it and goes, Oh, I'll notice that now.

394
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,000
But like in my head, I'm like, there was so many continuity errors and then like I'd bring

395
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,600
them up and people would be like, I didn't notice that.

396
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,880
I'm like, what do you mean you didn't notice that?

397
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,480
There was like a painting that we had to move for a scene.

398
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:27,480
It's in the background.

399
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:28,480
I feel like I'm giving away all the secrets.

400
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,600
But yeah, there was a painting we moved in the background of one shot and then that hallway

401
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,680
is visible in another shot.

402
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,640
So the painting, I put it up for one of the shots and then the other one, like I took

403
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,720
it down because we obviously, yeah, we're just moving around between rooms and stuff.

404
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,640
So there's like a scene where it cuts in the paintings there and it's not there.

405
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,760
And I'm just like, Oh my God, people are going to notice this painting in the far left corner

406
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,400
and I'm going to like never get hired again.

407
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,400
Spiraling.

408
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:02,120
That's like, that was like me actually on one of my own shoots where we like had mirrors

409
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:07,040
and if anyone works with mirrors or they're a nightmare to work with.

410
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:13,040
And one of my friends was literally caught in the mirror and we kept going like, move,

411
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,040
move.

412
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,840
And yeah, the one shot that I really liked, she happened to be standing in the reflection

413
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:20,840
of the mirror.

414
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:21,840
She didn't realize she was standing there.

415
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,840
I was like, oh.

416
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:24,840
Yeah.

417
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:30,280
The kitchen that we filmed in, that is like my sleep paralysis demon.

418
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,280
I think about that kitchen all the time because all of the cabinets were glassed.

419
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,840
And we're filming at the table and you can just see the slightest boom just cut across

420
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,720
some of the cabinets and I'm like, no.

421
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,160
I, when we wrapped on the kitchen, I would, that was like the best day on set for me.

422
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,280
I think it's also what I love about that film and I'm only seeing the stills by the way.

423
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,280
I've not got a sneak peek.

424
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,280
Oh my God.

425
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,280
The stills look so good.

426
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:57,280
It's just so good.

427
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:03,120
It's, it, I think there's a lot that, that, you know, like my good friend, Megan Bell,

428
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:09,080
who I love so much and she praised you so much.

429
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,280
She was like, you're interviewing Alice.

430
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,280
Oh.

431
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,880
And I was like, yes.

432
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:14,880
Yeah.

433
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,040
We, we really bonded, I think over this a couple of like minor things that her character

434
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,040
always had on her.

435
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,720
And so like keeping in charge of those continuity was like driving us both insane.

436
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,920
So like bonding through trauma, I think.

437
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:28,920
Yeah.

438
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,920
But I mean, like I think also, you know, that film in particular looks like gorgeous, looks

439
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,960
stunning, but it also just kind of like the downside of indie, you know, like especially

440
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,600
indie independent Australian is hopefully it gets traction because a lot of independent

441
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:49,120
Australian films just kind of get released and then sometimes just disappear.

442
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,120
Yeah.

443
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,960
Like, is that a concern for you especially?

444
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,040
Oh gosh.

445
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,040
I don't know.

446
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,680
I hope, I really hope it doesn't happen.

447
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,920
But yeah, I'm not sure what, what's going to happen, but I'm crossing my fingers.

448
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,320
I've got, I've got them like this.

449
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,920
If no one can see them, I've got my like fingers crossed being really excited.

450
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,080
But I mean, like, you know, in particular, I want to talk about Young You and Young Alice.

451
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,080
Yeah.

452
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,080
Yeah.

453
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:22,800
So it's gone into the, this is the trauma subject of like, so prepare yourself.

454
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,040
Young Alice, where did it, where did Young Alice start from?

455
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,400
What was like the origins into your like writing and creativity?

456
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,400
Okay.

457
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,480
I do have like an origin, but it's like a little, it's a little cringy.

458
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:42,160
But I think, I think that's okay, I think we can, we can divulge secrets.

459
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,280
I started writing when I was 12 on like fanfiction.net.

460
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,860
Love it.

461
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:50,560
That was, that was the start of my writing career.

462
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,880
And that made me fall in love with writing.

463
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,680
Yeah.

464
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,040
I started like, like writing stories on there.

465
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,960
Like, like I was like writing, so I don't think I'll ever like match the level of writing

466
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,600
I was doing when I was 12.

467
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,600
Like, it was insane.

468
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,160
But yeah, I was doing that.

469
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,280
And then like that made me fall in love with writing.

470
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,320
And then I started writing like, very sporadically, like I've never been a consistent writer.

471
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,560
But yeah, in my teen years, just like coming up with ideas and like my own worlds and stuff.

472
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,920
And I was like, not a very social teenager.

473
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,640
So I think just like having that, like those little inner worlds to retreat to was like

474
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,720
a big thing for me.

475
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,080
And then I did media classes in like year 11 and 12.

476
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,480
And I'm like, oh my god, I can write for movies.

477
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,840
That's a thing.

478
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,160
And that really blew my mind.

479
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,200
I was like, I didn't really realize that like people wrote movies.

480
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,640
And then like I read my first script and I was like, oh my god, this is what I want to

481
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,280
do for the rest of my life.

482
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,680
And then yeah, moved to Melbourne and the rest is history.

483
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:54,680
Oh my god.

484
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,280
So where did you originally grow up?

485
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,800
I grew up in rural South Australia.

486
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,880
So you're a South Australia girl?

487
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,880
Yeah.

488
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,360
Born and raised out there?

489
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,040
Born and raised in Narrocor, South Australia.

490
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Wow.

491
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:16,480
Was that like, when did you realize you wanted to flee the South Australian borders?

492
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:22,040
I was always like keen to go, to be honest.

493
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,040
I actually went to boarding school when I was 13.

494
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,400
I like begged my parents to send me to boarding school.

495
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:28,400
Wow.

496
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,000
So I went to boarding school from like year nine to year 12 in Adelaide.

497
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,800
And then Adelaide, I was like, nah, got to go to Melbourne.

498
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,280
You were like just Adelaide shit.

499
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,840
Better get the fuck out of here.

500
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,640
Like go to somewhere a little bit more interesting.

501
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,280
I remember like, well, cause I have like family in Melbourne, we used to come visit and like

502
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,720
my grandma's house is like right next to Swinburne campus.

503
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,760
And I thought it was like the most amazing place in the world.

504
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,680
And I would like walk past it all the time and I'm like, I want to go here and like,

505
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,040
I want to live in Melbourne and study film.

506
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Yeah.

507
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,840
I was like, oh my God, it's so funny now.

508
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Cause like I walked past this Swinburne campus and I'm just like, what, what did I see in

509
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,600
this?

510
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,480
But when I was like 16, I was like, this is the most amazing place in the world.

511
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,960
I want to be here so bad.

512
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:16,960
Oh yeah.

513
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,960
Yeah.

514
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,680
And it tends to be the most amazing place in the world and you just get excited by everything

515
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,680
and you're like, this is, this is the bee's knees.

516
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:24,680
Yeah.

517
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,520
And I remember I was like such a like classic, like country girl in the city when I first

518
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,880
like moved to Melbourne, I was excited by everything.

519
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,560
Like I would get my $6 coffee and I'd be like, oh my God, this is so cool.

520
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,080
This is wholesome content.

521
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,240
I am loving this.

522
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,000
I think it's like also the juxtaposition is I grew up in the city my entire life.

523
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,560
So I've lived in Sydney for 30 years and like I love Sydney.

524
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,160
I've always wanted, I think particularly when I was young, I wanted to live in the UK and

525
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,400
that was like a no go.

526
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,560
I was like, like as I got older, it just never happened.

527
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,320
And now my partner and I are going to fly to Canada in a couple of years, which will

528
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,760
be really exciting before we potentially decide to have a family.

529
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,560
So that is like, I know it's, I love it.

530
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:21,720
And I think, but I also think that I've gotten to this age where I'm just very like excited

531
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:30,920
and keen and thrilled about certain projects that I think, probably when I was younger

532
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,280
and like a glossy eyed, when I first got my first ever television job where I was studying,

533
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,240
I was like, everyone's amazing.

534
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,320
And now I'm just like, ain't film projects fun and stressful and tiring.

535
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,320
Yeah.

536
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,800
I feel like it goes through like phases of like starry eye.

537
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,040
I still get like quite starry eyed sometimes.

538
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,280
And then I'll just like have these massive crashes where I'm like, wow, this industry

539
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,280
sucks.

540
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,280
It's just like, I like am tired.

541
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,800
And I think like my big crash on Remnant, I got COVID in like the third week and I was

542
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,800
so miserable.

543
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,520
How'd you get that?

544
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,880
I know exactly where I got it.

545
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:15,400
We went out on the weekend one night to this pub called the Woolpack.

546
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,320
And I just think, you know, if you're going to get COVID anywhere, it's in a rural town

547
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,200
pub called the Woolpack.

548
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,160
Like I should have seen it coming.

549
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,440
Oh my God.

550
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,520
So did a majority of you get sick?

551
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,920
There was a period where we were kind of all dropping like flies basically.

552
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,640
That was, it was so stressful.

553
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,720
And I felt bad because I was one of the first people to get it.

554
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,680
So I'm like, oh my God, I've infected everyone.

555
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,200
I've ruined the movie.

556
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,080
And then it's like two weeks later, you're all back at work.

557
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,080
Yeah.

558
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,800
And it was like, like, yeah, after my like week of ice, I was like basically coughing

559
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,400
the entire time and like wheezing.

560
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,480
We like were in a theatre and like we were up in the dress circle and like down on the

561
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,480
lower floor.

562
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,000
And like I was like running around all the time and I'd like walk up a flight of stairs

563
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,680
and I'm just like, I need to sit down for like 10 minutes.

564
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,640
It's completely exhausted me.

565
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,160
I had that too as well.

566
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,680
Like I couldn't walk hills very easily for the first few days.

567
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,560
I get very tired and I had brain fog.

568
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Brain fog hit me hard.

569
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,560
Yeah.

570
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,560
All the joys.

571
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,560
I know.

572
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,560
I know.

573
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,000
But I mean, like, you know, like what, like what do you do?

574
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,160
We're in the middle of a pandemic, but at least it didn't like set back the film.

575
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,680
It seemed to complete like semi on time.

576
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:27,680
Yeah.

577
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,000
We did the best that we could have considering the circumstances.

578
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Yeah.

579
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,840
I don't think anyone was anticipating how badly we would get hit by Covid.

580
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,880
But yeah, like I think we all really rallied together.

581
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,200
There was that last week of shooting that was in, in Maggi that was crazy.

582
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,920
We just had so much left to do.

583
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,400
And it was like, yeah, looking at all the scenes, like just figuring out like the most

584
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,600
effective and most efficient way to like smash out as many as possible.

585
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,120
And like, you know, like we got it done in it, but that feeling when we finished it was

586
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,720
just so satisfying and just so incredible.

587
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,720
It's like, yeah.

588
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,920
And we had such an amazing team.

589
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,720
So, you know, it was awesome.

590
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,200
Do you love it though, like how, how audience consume things as well and, and how we did

591
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,720
as kids is so micro and nanosecond.

592
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,120
We're like, this is great.

593
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,480
This is terrible before we sometimes even watch it.

594
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,840
Do you know, like finishing Remnant, I remember like the week afterwards I went and saw Nope.

595
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,480
And like that, like I think after finishing like on a feature film set for like six weeks,

596
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,360
I was like, how does anything ever get made?

597
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,040
Like how do movies ever get made?

598
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Like it really was like, and I watched that, I was like, how did someone make this?

599
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,200
Like this is insane.

600
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,440
Like there's so much stuff that goes into making a movie.

601
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,360
It is a miracle that anything gets done.

602
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,720
Like it was just mind blowing.

603
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,800
And, and Nopes a great film, but it's like also like, I think the one that I always think

604
00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,400
of is Jordan Peele's first one, which particularly is like that low budget.

605
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,420
Like even though it has like get out, has a sort of semi budget, it still feels a bit

606
00:31:04,420 --> 00:31:05,420
more indie.

607
00:31:05,420 --> 00:31:08,080
Then probably like us and Nope.

608
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,080
And particularly when you look at that film, you're kind of like, how did this get made?

609
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,880
I think it had two months filming.

610
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:14,880
Wow.

611
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,880
Yeah.

612
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,880
And just like so out of the blue as well.

613
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,320
It's like such a random film to just take off.

614
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,320
Yeah.

615
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,320
I mean like, there might be something new, right?

616
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,440
And suddenly everyone's like, Ooh, maybe famous one day.

617
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,360
I mean, like is there, particularly as a writer though.

618
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:37,120
And now as you write fanfic clearly, do you think there's anything in particular that

619
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:43,440
you're like, this, this is like shows or, you know, storylines that I want to take on

620
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,760
or is there a media like, you know, whether it's a play, whether it's a television or

621
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,520
whether it's a film or whether it's radio are the particular like avenues you also want

622
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,520
to try.

623
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,520
Yeah.

624
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,280
I, I recently started getting to theater actually, which has been so fun.

625
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,960
I really want to like, I've started writing a theater show.

626
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,960
Oh really?

627
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,960
It's been awesome.

628
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,960
Yeah.

629
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,480
Um, actually I think started writing is maybe not the right way to describe it because I'm

630
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,360
taking a script that I wrote as a short film and turning it into a theater show.

631
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,360
But, um,

632
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,360
Oh, so you're adapting.

633
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,160
Adapting, adapting my own work that I never made, but it was like, I, yeah, I worked as

634
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,280
a stage manager on like a student show and I just loved it.

635
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,280
It was so fun.

636
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Um, and then I was like, I want to do this.

637
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:33,120
Um, and then realizing like theater is great because you, a lot's left to the imagination

638
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,280
and I have this script that's like set in a mansion and it's like, I was never going

639
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,200
to be able to like hire a mansion to film in, but I can just put a bunch of people on

640
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,680
a stage and say, this is in a mansion and people will be like, yeah, that's in a mansion.

641
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,200
So yeah, I was like that this is the one I'm turning into a play.

642
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,200
I love the dedication.

643
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,240
You're like, this, this is my decision.

644
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,240
This is what it will be.

645
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,120
It was kind of like a process of elimination and also like, I just wanted to like, I finished

646
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,360
this play and I was like, I want to keep doing this and I know all these people who will

647
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,360
make a play with me now.

648
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,520
And so I just wanted to like capitalize on that.

649
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,960
And I was like, it's going to be easier to like pick one of the millions of scripts I

650
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,880
have just like sitting in a drawer rather than like creating something from scratch.

651
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,760
It's also going to like when you make a film, it's always a budgetary thing you stress

652
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,760
about and you know, whether it's going to be good or whether it's going to be bad, um,

653
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,760
whether it's going to look cheap or terrible.

654
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,280
Like is there any particular ideas, especially with like, you know, storylines that you have

655
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,120
that you're like, I really want to invest one day in a project of mine.

656
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Yeah, I think that's like the hard thing about screenwriting is like, I love writing and

657
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,960
like I will just write like anything and like I would just do it for fun.

658
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,840
But then like screenwriting, it's like, there's so much writing on that.

659
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,360
Like you're sending that off and that's like going to go to a director and then like people

660
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,280
are going to turn up on set and they're going to shoot what you wrote.

661
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,320
And there's so many people who are dependent on like what you wrote being good.

662
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,520
It can't just be like something like I'm just like writing in my room for myself, you know?

663
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:09,200
So it's like, it's like that extra level of like pressure when it comes to script writing.

664
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:14,240
And like I, yeah, I'm writing like a feature film at the moment, which is like a kind of

665
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:15,240
like a queer horror.

666
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:16,240
Oh my God.

667
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,240
Yeah.

668
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:23,400
Which has been really fun, but that's like, I want that to be like really, really good.

669
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,840
And so it's taking me forever to write because I'm like just feeling so much pressure.

670
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,840
Yeah.

671
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,080
But yeah, there's so many like little concepts and stuff in that.

672
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,520
And I'm like, I don't know if this works, but I really like it.

673
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,760
What like when you sort of start writing though, and you know, are you one of those writers

674
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,760
that stares at a blank page for like two hours hoping that an idea flows out of your brain?

675
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:50,920
Like typically I think like an idea will like live in my head for quite a while before I

676
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,200
like commit to putting it on the page.

677
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,400
Yeah.

678
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,000
And like scripts, I think like prose is different.

679
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,080
Like I would just like write prose for fun and just like, you know, short stories and

680
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,080
just whatever.

681
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,080
I just like that.

682
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,520
I feel like I can just let loose and just like write literally whatever.

683
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,720
And then if it's like, I'll just cut it or like, you know, if it's not good, it doesn't

684
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:11,720
matter.

685
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:16,040
Like I tend to spend a bit more time planning.

686
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,800
I think as well, like, I don't know the same about screenwriting and like scripts.

687
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,800
I feel like they just need to be like really well structured.

688
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,400
Like I think a book doesn't need to be as structured as a screenplay.

689
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,000
In my experience at least.

690
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,720
So yeah, like I will usually for a screenplay will cue cut everything out first.

691
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,280
I will put it on my iPad, like as like cue cards, like that I can like access online,

692
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,280
which is good.

693
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,720
Like if I'm ever like out in public and like I don't have my cue cards with me, I'll just

694
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,160
have them on my iPad or on my phone.

695
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,680
And so like I find that really handy.

696
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,000
And then just like visually seeing it like on a screen is super helpful for me.

697
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,320
So like, yeah, a lot more planning goes into like a screenplay for me.

698
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,320
Oh, that's awesome.

699
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,840
I think also, you know, particularly with writing and you know, like something that

700
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,760
I've done visually, like my background's editing.

701
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,360
So it's like, I'm particularly good at noticing when scripts don't flow because you're like,

702
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,760
especially when you're editing something, you're like, oh, okay.

703
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,160
And then that doesn't sit right or that, you know, like, but as my own editor, when I edit

704
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,480
my own content, have you ever, it's terrible.

705
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,720
No, it's not that bad.

706
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:24,200
I actually don't write terribly.

707
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:32,140
I just sort of like, I write in such a predictable ADHD way, which is the dots connect very specifically

708
00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:36,040
to me, but most like people won't join the dots.

709
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,640
Really what I need is a script consultant, always making sure a script editor, making

710
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,120
sure it sounds consistent.

711
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,360
Well, look, not to like, you know, I do do script consultants and stuff.

712
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,360
If you ever need someone to write coverage for you.

713
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,920
Is that a bit of a, is that a bit of like a self plug?

714
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,600
I mean, like, do you know, because you, you talk about being a fan of stuff, like I'm,

715
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,440
I will admit I do, you know, like, and you've probably seen on my Facebook and stuff, like,

716
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,800
you know, my doctor who like, yeah, I've seen a little bit of Doccy who have you watched

717
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:09,800
any of it?

718
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,160
No, I should.

719
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,480
I'm like very new to the doctor who fandom.

720
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,760
I only watched the show for the first time last year.

721
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:16,760
Really?

722
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Yeah.

723
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,760
Which is like quite surprising for me.

724
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,320
And like, that was like a, like a secret.

725
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,240
That was like me being in the closet, like all my friends are massive doctor who fans.

726
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:24,840
And I was like, yeah, doctor who's great.

727
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,840
And I'm like, I haven't seen it.

728
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,240
And it's like way too late for me to catch up.

729
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,960
Did you, which doctor do you start with?

730
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:35,360
I started, I started from the like Christopher Ecclestone and then I'm actually, yeah, I

731
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,960
watched it with my friends and we recently restarted watching it.

732
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,320
Cause we stopped at Capaldi and then we've jumped back in now.

733
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,640
So yeah, we're, we're currently halfway through the Jodie Whittaker or at least the start

734
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:47,640
of it.

735
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,040
I'm very excited to get up to Whittaker cause I'm very curious.

736
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,120
I've had a lot, so I love her very much.

737
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,040
I think she did a great job and now her era is done.

738
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,040
Yeah.

739
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,320
I'm excited to see her go, but I'm also excited what they all do next.

740
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,720
But if anyone knows me, I am not a Russell T Davis fan as much.

741
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:12,880
I am very controversial, love him as a person, but as a, as a doctor who fanatic, I just

742
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,640
find his writing is way too fanfic-y even for me to sit there and go at this point,

743
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,640
you've lost me of who, who should be in this episode and who should, and I just felt like

744
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:29,680
I was like, I Eccleston and like if I could list my favorite actors who have played the

745
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,360
doctor, it'd be Eccleston, like Christopher Eccleston, Matt Smith and Jodie Whittaker.

746
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,520
I think are phenomenal.

747
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,680
I think they did a great job as well.

748
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,560
David Tennant is my weakest out of all of them.

749
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,440
I know scandal, scandal.

750
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,360
I am, I'm destroying so many hearts right now and making a lot of people angry.

751
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,080
But yeah, he's just like, he's a great actor.

752
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,080
Don't get me wrong.

753
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,080
David Tennant.

754
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,080
I love him, I love him in Broadchurch.

755
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,640
I love him in a lot of different shows.

756
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,680
But just as the doctor, he wasn't something that sat well with me.

757
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,840
And I think I didn't particularly like the fandom around that time and the fandom that's

758
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,720
really like hostile around that thing.

759
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:09,640
But it's interesting because being particularly like knowing what it's like to write fanfic

760
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,440
and particularly like your own fan orientation stuff is interesting when you start writing

761
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,360
and people just go, oh, it needs to be more like this.

762
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,120
And it's something of the fandom that you don't like.

763
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:26,200
And you go, this is not what I like, but people are telling me that I should always channel

764
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,280
it to a certain degree.

765
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,920
It's funny because I know a lot of people who watch my Doctor Who stuff love it, but

766
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,840
it's a majority of it is female doctors.

767
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,760
And I sometimes get comments on it, which are, they're better than Jodie.

768
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,680
Oh, they're so much sexier than Jodie.

769
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,840
Like all these things.

770
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,200
And it's like, I don't know, it's like some men are like, oh, how are they this smart?

771
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,880
And I was like, that works.

772
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,920
It's like a toxic fandom, like society.

773
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,440
Do you find that now as well, like particularly as a writer to kind of avoid that toxic side

774
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,840
of writing and fandom?

775
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,280
Yeah, there's so much.

776
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,400
There's so many toxic fandoms out there.

777
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,440
Yeah, I've definitely been like stuck, like, and it's not like a fun place to be.

778
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,640
Like you can get quite obsessive when you're in those fandoms and you're like, my shift

779
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,640
is correct.

780
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:22,240
Like my shift is going to be canon because XYZ and it's just like, it kind of sucks

781
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,800
the fun out of it eventually.

782
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,840
Like, but yeah, I've definitely like been like neck deep in some like interesting fandoms

783
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:30,840
before.

784
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:38,680
But yeah, like my like little goal for myself is if I ever become a successful writer, I

785
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,760
want to have like a ship that creates discourse.

786
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:47,240
Like, that's how I'll know I've made it if I have a show.

787
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,680
I'm like, this is like my one goal as a writer is to have like a discourse ship.

788
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,680
Wow.

789
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:53,680
Yeah.

790
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:01,200
So like, like an Edward Cullen, you know, like kind of ship or just like something way

791
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,200
worse.

792
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,880
Like, hi, I'm, I love, I really love Enemies to Lovers.

793
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,320
Wow, I'm feeling all the secrets on this podcast.

794
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,840
But yeah, Enemies to Lovers is like my guilty pleasure.

795
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,040
And so like, I would love to like have a long running show with like a long Enemies to Lovers

796
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,040
arc.

797
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,720
Oh, lovely.

798
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:20,560
And have some discourse on Twitter.

799
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,720
That would be, that would be fun.

800
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:22,720
Oh my god.

801
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,920
That would be like my ideal sick like of success.

802
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,920
I'm so concerned.

803
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,800
I know I was just, you know, always say what I was thinking.

804
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:42,240
It was like, I remember sitting around with a bunch of Em's friends and they all do roller

805
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:47,240
derby together and they were all talking about First Kill, which is a Netflix show.

806
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:52,800
And just made me think of back when we were talking about queerbaiting and that show.

807
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:58,600
But that, that like, you know, that show in itself is also just, what is it about like

808
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:05,360
certain like traps or like, I want to say thirst traps or like relationship discourse?

809
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:12,680
Um, has in like some characters that happens in a lot of shows where they're like, they

810
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,640
should get together, they shouldn't get together.

811
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,640
Yeah.

812
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,320
Or it's like the supernatural kind of avenue where they just sort of happen to get together

813
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,800
for no apparent reason.

814
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Yeah, supernatural is, oh my gosh.

815
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:25,640
Yeah.

816
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:31,160
Do you, do you feel like that when you're like watching any show that you're like, was

817
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,440
there a legitimate reason for these characters to get together?

818
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,800
And do you, do you look at the forums and, and, and stuff like, especially with your

819
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:46,440
writing, do you, do you want your audience, I guess, to realize that they're going to

820
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,520
get together and not just ache and bait them and be like, they should, they shouldn't,

821
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,640
but they won't.

822
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:59,520
I love like, I think shipping can get toxic very quickly, but if you're like engaging

823
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,800
with it on a surface level, it's a lot of fun to just watch a show and be like, these

824
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,120
characters are cute together.

825
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,700
And like, I'll, I'll like some fan art of them and like engaging on that level is always

826
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:14,760
fun and I would love it if I made a show that like had fan art and fan fiction and like

827
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,280
had a fandom.

828
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,680
Um, that would be amazing.

829
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,600
Like, like, like I would genuinely love that.

830
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,080
Like that would be so surreal and so cool.

831
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,000
Um, and like, yeah, it just seems like so far out of the realm of possibility of like

832
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,720
what I can have, you know?

833
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:36,200
Um, yeah, I would love, I would love to have like a show or like a film or a piece of media

834
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:41,040
that like has an online fandom and like Tumblr and TikTok and stuff.

835
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,520
Like I engage with that stuff quite regularly and that's a big part of my life and like

836
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:45,800
how I engage with shows.

837
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,200
And so, um, I would love it if that happened with Sonic Hyrule.

838
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,200
That would be awesome.

839
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,200
Are you a, are you a big TikToker?

840
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,200
On and off.

841
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,400
Um, it's, it's so addictive.

842
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,520
Um, and a little bit like it can, it can get quite toxic quite quickly with as with any

843
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,520
corner of the internet.

844
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,120
Um, yeah, but like when it, when it's good, it's good.

845
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,000
You know, the, the algorithm is insane.

846
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:14,160
Like I don't know what they do and how they do it, but it is so accurate and like gets

847
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,960
to like the nitty gritty of like little tiny niches that you have and you can like find

848
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,920
your people really quickly and that like, that's really cool.

849
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,440
Um, and like it's concerning cause it's like, how did they know?

850
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,280
I think it's, I think it's like someone did an experiment recently where they kept talking

851
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,920
out loud to their phone and then the phone would listen to them.

852
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,360
And then the algorithm on Tik Tok would work it out by what they've said out loud.

853
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Cause like your phone actually does listen to you.

854
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,800
And like I've seen like videos of people like, I mean, it's fun when it's like, you know,

855
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,360
the algorithm like finds out like, you know, what shows I'm watching and like, that's fun.

856
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,440
But then it's like, I've seen people do experiments, but they'll create a Tik Tok account and then

857
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:59,240
like we'll swipe and try and get to like alt right videos and see how quickly they can get

858
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:03,440
into like, you know, some like pretty far right media.

859
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,720
And it takes them like less than an hour of scrolling to get to like Ben Shapiro, Jordan

860
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,840
Peterson, like that corner.

861
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,840
And it's just, that's pretty frightening.

862
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,440
Oh, yeah.

863
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,800
I mean that, that, that makes me think of like, you know, like how the dark web of Tik

864
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,800
Tok.

865
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,920
I mean on any side, like Reddit is also particularly.

866
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,680
Oh, Reddit's the worst.

867
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,360
Yeah, Reddit.

868
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,440
Um, I, I like sometimes like what did my toes into Reddit every now and again, but like,

869
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,280
it's very selective and like I, there's some, there's some horrible stuff on that side.

870
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,680
Cause were you born in the late nineties, early two thousands here?

871
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Ninety nine.

872
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:40,680
Yeah.

873
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,280
Nineties baby just.

874
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,280
Love it.

875
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,920
So you would have encountered a few websites that before they got taken down, um, did you

876
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,560
ever remember, were you ever morbidly curiosity kid?

877
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,000
Oh, I don't know.

878
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,320
Did you ever look up weird things on the internet when you were young?

879
00:45:58,320 --> 00:45:59,320
I did.

880
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:05,520
Like I was definitely around in the peak of like creepy pasta Slenderman and stuff.

881
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,880
That was like probably like my limit.

882
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,520
And then like, I got weirdly into, you know what ARGs are?

883
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:13,520
Vaguely.

884
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Um, augmented reality gaming.

885
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,880
Um, that was like something I got really into as like a teen, um, because that's like just,

886
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,320
you just deep dive into like these weird like pockets of the internet and like look for

887
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,760
clues and stuff.

888
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,480
Um, so I think like those kind of marketed themselves as like dark and disturbing, but

889
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,440
in reality they like, they weren't, they were all like made up, but like that was probably

890
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,000
like the furthest I got.

891
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,160
I love that.

892
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,040
I mean like my dark web eventually got me, I don't know.

893
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,280
It sort of like ended up being like this site where you would see like it's done off nice

894
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,520
and happy and fluffy.

895
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:52,280
And then so it would get more and more dark the further you scrolled and like it was more

896
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,280
disturbing.

897
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,280
I think you, it said how far in can you get before you want to leave?

898
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,560
There's like that weird addictive thing about like the internet where they'll have like

899
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,760
things like just out of like the corner of your eye that you shouldn't be looking at.

900
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,280
It's very tempting to just like look and click and just see what's there.

901
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,280
Yeah.

902
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:17,720
Were you ever like, because did you ever as a teenager, like look up things and then do

903
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:21,840
that delete history so no one could work out what you were staring at?

904
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:22,840
I don't know.

905
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,240
Like I was a bit of a, like I probably still am.

906
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,200
Like I love horror, but I am like a massive softie.

907
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,000
And like, I think I'm very good at recognizing like my limits of like, if I look at this,

908
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,840
like this is going to keep me up for a few nights and like, so I won't do that.

909
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,160
So you respect yourself.

910
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,800
I think I just don't trust myself.

911
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,760
Although like I think in terms of like deleting search history and stuff, there's a lot of

912
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,040
that in terms of fan fiction.

913
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,040
When I was a kid, I was like very embarrassed by it, but now I'm like, I don't care.

914
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,600
I will tell anyone clearly because I'm talking about it on this podcast.

915
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:56,600
Yeah, I know.

916
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,320
You're clearly like, I don't give a shit and everyone get the fuck away.

917
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,840
I think I've just accepted that I'm like a huge nerd and like, I just am very happy to

918
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:11,000
like openly say that I'm a nerd so I can find other nerdy people to talk with.

919
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,280
I think like you do already from the vibe that you're in a very safe space.

920
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,520
It is a very safe space here.

921
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:18,520
Nerd away.

922
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:25,480
I mean like I think also with like in terms of just like internet browsing and stuff like

923
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,040
that when I was young and it always seemed like such a dodgy way, but I remember like

924
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,600
there used to be a lot of flash animation websites and I found one recently, which was

925
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,640
a flashdown memory lane and I don't know why it was so bizarre, but it was something my

926
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,360
brother and I found and it was a website just with a song called Mushroom, Mushroom, Mushroom,

927
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:46,640
Mushroom, Mushroom Badger.

928
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,840
And if you look it up on YouTube, it's a weird flash animation where it goes on repeat and

929
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,600
then occasionally you see a snake in it.

930
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,640
Yeah.

931
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,400
I kind of miss that era of internet.

932
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:00,400
Like what?

933
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,160
Like it was almost psychedelic.

934
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,520
Like you just didn't know.

935
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:04,520
Yeah.

936
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,640
It was just so weird like those web two websites that just like so, so bizarre.

937
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:11,640
Like yeah.

938
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,160
Or like you like puzzles and stuff to figure out and like you get there and then it's like

939
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,840
a jump scare at the end.

940
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,360
It's kind of like, it's like weirdly nostalgic and cute.

941
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,520
Like now it's like, I remember those, I remember when I first got on Facebook and there were

942
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,200
those things that were like, if you don't like this post and share it, this person's

943
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,920
going to come murder you tonight.

944
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:33,920
I miss those.

945
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,920
I miss those.

946
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,840
I genuinely believed them and I remember like as a kid, it's so funny, I would like see

947
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,040
them and I'd be too scared to like them and I'd be like, okay, well, so it's not going

948
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,040
to come kill me tonight.

949
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,560
So if I stay up till midnight, then I'm good because then it's daytime technically after

950
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,560
that and then it's fine.

951
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,480
And so I used to like to sit in bed, just like terrified waiting for it to hit midnight.

952
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,480
So I wouldn't get murdered.

953
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,040
But I miss that.

954
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,960
I miss that era of internet.

955
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,600
I miss that era of feeling like I would be murdered every night.

956
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Yeah, exactly.

957
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:13,560
I think my favorite part was like the ones that said it was like until 3am and then you're

958
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,920
like, clearly the witching hour, get fucked internet.

959
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,360
Or they're like ones that are like, if you share this with 20 friends, like you'll get

960
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,440
all of this good things and if you don't, you'll get brutally murdered.

961
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:28,560
Yeah, I know.

962
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,440
I think it also didn't help that I grew up with shows like X-Files where like an episode

963
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,680
would be of this premise where people did die of murder.

964
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,000
Like some of these kind of things.

965
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,880
I grew up with very dark shows.

966
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,200
So it was like, did not help my imagination.

967
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:49,840
I think like my like first kind of experiences with horror with those like found footage

968
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,960
movies, like those were big when I was an early teen.

969
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,720
Ah, so like paranormal activity and...

970
00:50:55,720 --> 00:51:01,680
And like Blair Witch Project and stuff like that scared the shit out of me.

971
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:02,680
I was like so gullible.

972
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,600
I was like, if you told me this was real, I was like, yeah, this is real.

973
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,960
Like this is a real deal.

974
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:08,960
This actually happened.

975
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,440
Like it's on a security camera footage.

976
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:11,440
You can't fake that.

977
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,360
None of these are actors.

978
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,000
I think, did you, what about mainstream horror now?

979
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,160
Like, you know, when you watch things because like everything under the sun is like slashes

980
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:28,560
or you know, a lot of them are just like, you know, massive murder mystery slashes.

981
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:33,160
But occasionally there's good cherry like on top weird ones.

982
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,840
What's your favourite go to horror, I guess nowadays?

983
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:36,840
That's a good question.

984
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:43,360
Um, I don't know if I have a go to, but I, I one that came out recently that I'm obsessed

985
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:44,360
with is Fresh.

986
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,600
I haven't seen it yet.

987
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:46,600
It's so good.

988
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:52,760
There's some really good like feminist horror coming out a lot nowadays, which is awesome.

989
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:53,760
And I love it.

990
00:51:53,760 --> 00:52:01,440
Um, but yeah, that, that movie was great and like really gave me the ick, which, um, yeah,

991
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:02,440
so good.

992
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,840
I think, I think what's the one I loved recently.

993
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:10,200
Um, uh, other than Nope, which was just creepy and phenomenal.

994
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:11,560
I watched Black Phone recently.

995
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:12,560
Oh, was it good?

996
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:13,560
It was so good.

997
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,280
It was so fucked up.

998
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:21,280
I think it's like also what creeped me out is like less jump scares and more just unsettling.

999
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,080
Everything has to be unsettling.

1000
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,720
Um, yeah.

1001
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:25,720
And nerve wracking.

1002
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:30,760
And I think like, I think I get to this stage where I'm getting so adult where I'm like,

1003
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,520
I can't watch someone get disemboweled too much.

1004
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,000
There's a limit to how much disembowelment I can watch.

1005
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:43,760
So like a shock value occasionally with like horror, um, I'm fine with, but nowadays it's

1006
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,480
like, I love more paranormal.

1007
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,480
I used to love slashes when I was younger, but now it's more paranormal, weird stuff.

1008
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:50,480
Yeah.

1009
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,680
I think like when it hits that sweet spot where it's like paranormal, weird, and like

1010
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,480
a bit of gore, like that's the stuff that'll like really fuck with me.

1011
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:59,480
Really?

1012
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:05,320
I actually, not a movie, but I recently read, um, Izumaki Mejongi Ito, which is a manga,

1013
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,080
a horror manga, which was so, so, so good.

1014
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,240
And freaked me the heck out.

1015
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:12,240
You know what?

1016
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,640
I wonder how did the show from on Stan?

1017
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:19,720
I have, and, um, I haven't watched it, but I, I should.

1018
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,520
I would recommend that highly.

1019
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:22,960
Cause that's like, yeah.

1020
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,840
I know it's by the guys that did Lost.

1021
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:25,840
Yes.

1022
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:26,840
Yeah.

1023
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:27,840
And I love Lost.

1024
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:28,840
That's one of my favorite shows.

1025
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:29,840
It's so much better than Lost though.

1026
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,320
Like it's so good.

1027
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,320
It's so weird and wonderful.

1028
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,400
And I really hope it doesn't go for as many seasons as Lost.

1029
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:38,400
Yeah.

1030
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,680
I love those like old and long running shows, but I'm very happy that we're not doing them

1031
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:42,680
all.

1032
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:43,680
Yeah.

1033
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,560
I'm happy that it's occasionally like, we occasionally get shows that last about five

1034
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,200
seasons and then they're like, we're done now.

1035
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,200
Yeah.

1036
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,000
I think like having an expiry date is important for a TV show now.

1037
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,040
Like knowing when you're going to finish is important.

1038
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,520
Um, like I don't think good story.

1039
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,040
Well, I mean like, obviously they did, but like, I think it's very hard to create good

1040
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,840
stories from the idea that you just need to keep pushing it for as long as possible.

1041
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,120
And it's like, the idea is like more output rather than good story.

1042
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,120
Like, yeah.

1043
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,840
Like, you know, like I feel like a lot of those longer running American shows, they'll

1044
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,360
have like a massive slump in like the later seasons.

1045
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,480
Like it's just because like they're just trying so hard to like extend like what little story

1046
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:21,480
they have left.

1047
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,240
It's, it's the kind of how I feel about like American Horror Story and stuff like that.

1048
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:29,640
I'm like, I don't know how they keep making it.

1049
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,020
It's okay.

1050
00:54:31,020 --> 00:54:33,160
Some seasons are better than others.

1051
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:39,360
Um, but like, I feel like Ryan Murphy recently, I have so many issues with Ryan Murphy.

1052
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:45,880
I mean like, have you seen, um, uh, the monster Dharma yet?

1053
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,480
I'm not watching Dharma.

1054
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,180
I don't really feel the need to watch that.

1055
00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:53,080
And I don't really like that that show was made at all.

1056
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,640
So I'm just like not touching it.

1057
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:55,640
Interesting.

1058
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,920
You're like me then you're, you just, cause I have a big hate to watch that.

1059
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:00,920
I don't want to watch it.

1060
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,640
And I just, I don't want to watch it.

1061
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,720
I've never had an inkling to watch it.

1062
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:09,600
I like a lot of like stories about serial killers and, and, and stuff like that, but I have

1063
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,160
in particular how this is glorified.

1064
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:13,960
Um, I have no desire to watch.

1065
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,440
I'm like, I'm not going to watch this.

1066
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,440
No, no.

1067
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,320
And it's like, I think people kind of forget like the seventies feels like a really long

1068
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,160
time ago, but it's actually not when you think about it, like it was 40 years, like people

1069
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,840
who's like families were affected by that are still alive.

1070
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:34,120
And you know, they should not have to be subjected to their loved ones gruesome, horrifying deaths

1071
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,160
being like exploited for profit.

1072
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,640
Like, you know, like I just don't see the point in why it's made.

1073
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,800
And like, I, yeah, true crime is, is an interesting sub genre.

1074
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:55,600
And I think I understand the appeal, not that like I'm into it, but like understand like

1075
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,920
where the fascination comes from and why people want to consume it.

1076
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:05,600
But I think, like, I think recently as well, there's kind of been this idea that's like

1077
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:06,800
you're consuming true crime.

1078
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,320
Like it makes you more vigilant or like it somehow like helps you.

1079
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,760
But like, I think you just need to, if you're like consuming true crime, you kind of just

1080
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,880
need to accept that it's probably not good for you, but you can still consume it if you

1081
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:18,880
want.

1082
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,480
Like I don't like the idea that every piece of media has to be like beneficial for you

1083
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,920
and to try and spin it like that, it's probably not like the best, especially when it's like

1084
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:27,920
like true crime.

1085
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:28,920
I don't know if that makes sense, but

1086
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:29,920
It does.

1087
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:30,920
It does.

1088
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,920
And he made me think of a show which I really liked called Dez, which stars David Tennant

1089
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,440
as a guy called Desmond Nielsen.

1090
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,920
And he was a real life serial killer, but what they don't show is any of the murders.

1091
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,560
They don't ever show the murders.

1092
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,840
And what they do is show the police procedure afterwards, like after he was caught.

1093
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:55,080
And it's really interesting and thoroughly more disturbing how much he is a compulsive

1094
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,600
liar and everything than it was actually seeing him do any of the crimes.

1095
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:05,120
And there was an interview with David Tennant where he said, we waited until he died before

1096
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,600
we made that because we didn't want him to think he was being glorified.

1097
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,540
And at any point, you know, be like, this isn't me.

1098
00:57:12,540 --> 00:57:15,520
This is like they're, you know, like telling lies.

1099
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:16,880
I never killed these people.

1100
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,080
Like they didn't want him to have any ignition.

1101
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,860
So when he died, they were like, we can now make this.

1102
00:57:21,860 --> 00:57:23,920
This is okay.

1103
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,240
And it's the same principle.

1104
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,540
Like I think the only other show that worked really well in that sort of like true crime

1105
00:57:28,540 --> 00:57:30,640
format was like a show Mindhunter.

1106
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:31,640
Yeah.

1107
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:36,520
I think like anything can be done well and done respectfully, like no matter the subject

1108
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:37,520
matter.

1109
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,040
Yeah.

1110
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,560
Like there's a film that I love called Charlie Says, which like no one has heard of, but

1111
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,800
it's like, oh yay, yay.

1112
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:48,800
I love Mary Haran.

1113
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,760
She's like, I'm obsessed with her.

1114
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:51,760
She's great.

1115
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:52,760
Have you seen it?

1116
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,760
I have not.

1117
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,480
But I have, I have heard of it.

1118
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:56,480
Yeah.

1119
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,320
But it's, it's so, so well done.

1120
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,920
But like, yeah, the basic premise is like, it's about the, the Charlie Manson murders,

1121
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:09,120
but it's primarily set afterwards and it focuses on like three girls who were like put in prison

1122
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:10,480
for the murders.

1123
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,360
And rather than the plot being about like Charles Manson, it's about the girls.

1124
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:19,280
And like the central question of the film is whether or not they should be deradicalized

1125
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,560
in prison because if they are deradicalized and they like kind of come to grips with what

1126
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,320
they've done, like that's going to be quite like, it's going to torment them quite a bit.

1127
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,320
But then it's also like, they kind of do they need to like be deradicalized so they can

1128
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,360
understand the extent of what they've done.

1129
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:34,360
Yeah.

1130
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,480
And then so that's really fascinating.

1131
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:41,260
And then also they kind of cut back to like how they got radicalized in the first place.

1132
00:58:41,260 --> 00:58:42,400
And I think it's just done so well.

1133
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:47,800
It doesn't like, like sympathize with them in a way that like forgives them for what

1134
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,200
they've done, but you do see how it happens.

1135
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,040
And I think it's just done so well.

1136
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,560
And I think more people should watch it.

1137
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,920
And Matt Smith plays like Charles Manson, which is like great casting.

1138
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,640
And yet no one's seen it or heard of it.

1139
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,240
And so I just, I think that's a crime.

1140
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,240
It's really good.

1141
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,240
I love Matt Smith.

1142
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:08,240
So that's how I follow it.

1143
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:09,240
Yeah.

1144
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,040
Well, that's funny because like I watched that before I watched Doctor Who.

1145
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,960
That was my introduction to Matt Smith.

1146
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:14,960
Jesus Christ.

1147
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:15,960
So that's a dramatic.

1148
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:16,960
It was that.

1149
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,120
And then I watched last night in Soho and then I watched Doctor Who.

1150
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:26,080
It was like a complete reversal of how like everyone else was introduced to like the love

1151
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,080
of Matt Smith.

1152
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,200
Do you know what's funny about last night in Soho though is it's not like a film that

1153
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,760
I think it kind of dropped its feminist angle like halfway through.

1154
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,600
I, yeah, I was, I was disappointed by that movie.

1155
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,240
I feel like there's a, I have this problem and Don't Worry Darling got me as well where

1156
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:50,720
like the trailers will show like this really like eerie, spooky, vibey kind of story.

1157
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:55,440
And then you watch the movie and then like all the substance to it is just those like

1158
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,720
spooky eerie, vibey shots.

1159
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,680
And there isn't like an actual like tangible like plot.

1160
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,280
Like a lot of it is just a girl running around like freaking out.

1161
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,280
Yeah.

1162
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,800
I think my biggest pet peeve of also was about that film was there was just so much like

1163
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:17,920
unnecessarily watching Florence Pugh and Harry Styles have sex, which I didn't need at all.

1164
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,960
Especially Harry Styles.

1165
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,200
Bye bye.

1166
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:29,280
I went to see Don't Worry Darling with my little sister.

1167
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,720
Which yeah, I regretted about five minutes into the movie.

1168
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,760
Yeah, because there's that.

1169
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,360
Olivia Wilde, why would you do this to me?

1170
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,120
If anyone hasn't seen it, but watch the trailer because it's also in the trailer, but it's

1171
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,600
like literally the dinner scene.

1172
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,280
And Florence Pugh's character is like, I've made dinner.

1173
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,520
Harry Styles comes in and is like, that's great.

1174
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:55,680
And then they start making out and then he starts to proceed to give her head like while

1175
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,140
she pushes food off the side of the table.

1176
01:00:59,140 --> 01:01:00,140
How old's your sister?

1177
01:01:00,140 --> 01:01:01,140
She's um, she's 17.

1178
01:01:01,140 --> 01:01:02,840
Oh, okay, that's fine.

1179
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:03,840
It's fine.

1180
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:04,840
It's fine.

1181
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:05,840
Like it's fine.

1182
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,520
Like she like, you know, she's welcome to watch whatever content she wants, but I'm

1183
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,000
just like, ah, this is awkward.

1184
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:16,920
But like, I mean, like we were both like, you know, we were both on the Don't Worry

1185
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,720
Darling drama side of the internet, which is a fun place to be.

1186
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,160
And I think everyone in my cinema was also on that side of the internet because we were

1187
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,920
all having a very fun time in that screening.

1188
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,800
Cause the only reason that film did well.

1189
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:29,800
Yeah.

1190
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:30,800
Yeah.

1191
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,200
It's crazy how like that kind of publicity ends up creating a profit.

1192
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,240
I mean, like it's, it's kind of a shame.

1193
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,640
Like how do you feel about Olivia Wilde's career at this point?

1194
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:46,880
I, I like, I didn't like Don't Worry Darling, but I would watch the heck out of any movie

1195
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:47,880
she made.

1196
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,160
Like I, I just like, I want her to win.

1197
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,560
I want her to succeed.

1198
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,120
I think like Don't Worry Darling had a lot of things in it that I wanted a film to do

1199
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:57,380
for a while.

1200
01:01:57,380 --> 01:02:00,100
It just didn't quite stick the landing for me.

1201
01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:03,560
And I think like it could have done so much more, but like the fact that she like, she

1202
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,360
tried and like, that's the kind of story she wants to tell.

1203
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,640
Like, I'm like, I will watch whatever you want to make.

1204
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:09,840
Like she's just, yeah.

1205
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,840
No one else is making a movie like Don't Worry Darling at the moment.

1206
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:18,160
I didn't like it and I thought it was bad, but you know, I want more of that.

1207
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,680
You want, you want more of this kind of film.

1208
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Yeah.

1209
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,680
And analyze.

1210
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:23,680
Done well, but ideally.

1211
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:24,680
Yeah.

1212
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,600
I mean, Don't Worry Darling just needed another draft and then that was the reality of the

1213
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:30,600
situation.

1214
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:31,600
I agree.

1215
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:32,600
Yeah.

1216
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,760
I mean, I know this, but it was actually like on the 2019 blacklist.

1217
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:36,760
That's how it started.

1218
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:37,760
Yeah, I was.

1219
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:38,760
Yeah.

1220
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:39,760
Which is so weird to me.

1221
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,120
And like it was written by two men, which I was like very surprised to learn.

1222
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,080
But like, I don't necessarily think a movie like Don't Worry Darling can't be written

1223
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:48,880
by someone, you know, a guy.

1224
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:49,880
Yeah.

1225
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:50,880
But yeah.

1226
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,640
And then I just think probably needed just an extra pair of eyes or something.

1227
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:55,920
Like it felt like a first draft movie.

1228
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,600
But then also like it was major in quarantine and like COVID and stuff.

1229
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,920
And you know, there was so much stuff going on behind the scenes.

1230
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:01,920
Yeah.

1231
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,120
And Don't Worry Darling though, is one of those films that you look at and you just

1232
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:06,120
go, oh, okay.

1233
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,160
The list of problems with it is insane.

1234
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:10,160
Yeah.

1235
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:15,440
Like it feels never ending and long and, you know, difficult and everything.

1236
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,840
It just, yeah, there was like a solid like act of the movie where they just felt like

1237
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:24,320
the story was kind of at a standstill and it was just spinning wheels.

1238
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,640
I don't know if you have this thing as well, because like you're also a creative, but like

1239
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,640
sometimes when I'm watching a movie that's bad, I like, I realize it's bad.

1240
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,480
Because I'm like sitting in the cinema, like thinking of how I would do it.

1241
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:35,480
Yes.

1242
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,520
Like once you get to that point, when I'm like at that point in a movie, I've checked

1243
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:43,080
out like you're not getting me back on board if I'm like, this is how I would have done

1244
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:44,080
it.

1245
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,040
There's a dial tone in me going beep, beep.

1246
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,560
I'm like, I'm tuned out.

1247
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,560
Yeah, no, I just, I don't understand films like that.

1248
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:56,280
And I think, you know, like there's, there's a lot of it just, you know, where they don't

1249
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:00,780
work or they don't function or, you know, storylines don't go anywhere.

1250
01:04:00,780 --> 01:04:04,680
And that is a pro, like particularly with that story, it's a particular problem.

1251
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:05,680
Yeah.

1252
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,680
Cause the premise is awesome.

1253
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:12,660
And like the story is, it's a cool idea, but it felt like it was less interested in telling

1254
01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:16,000
that story and more interested in like being smart.

1255
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:24,320
But like, I think if it, I mean, like, I think I would have the like escape sequence, I think

1256
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,200
was so like, oh, she's gotten a car and drove to the edge of town.

1257
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:32,240
Like it felt, that felt too easy, like I would have liked more obstacles and like that being

1258
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,800
a bigger part of the movie, like figuring out how to leave, how to escape and like,

1259
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,320
you know, maybe getting some of the other women out as well.

1260
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,320
I was kind of like, no, no, no, no.

1261
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:49,600
I felt like the ending, the, the way the ending happens as well, like, and, and just, you

1262
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,920
know, like it doesn't feel like it's earned.

1263
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:52,920
Nothing feels like it's earned.

1264
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:53,920
Yeah.

1265
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,960
I think like, oh, I could talk about this, we could go down this overhaul.

1266
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,440
Um, but like, yeah, I felt like there should have been a lot more to Jack as well.

1267
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:05,880
Like, and I think a little bit of that is to do with Harry Styles, but like, I just

1268
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,760
would have liked to have seen more of his like psyche and how he got to this point,

1269
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,120
how he's justifying it to himself.

1270
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,520
You know, like a bit more of that inner turmoil and like what is going through his head.

1271
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,240
Like I feel like that was left too little too late.

1272
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,240
I think it's, I think he started off really well as well.

1273
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:27,360
I think, I think like his acting is not the best.

1274
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:28,360
It's not Florence Pugh.

1275
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,240
No, it's not Florence Pugh, but it was like, okay.

1276
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,060
And it was good enough, but it was really came down to just like, he happened to be

1277
01:05:35,060 --> 01:05:39,840
dating the director or wanting, or they were having the affair at some point.

1278
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:40,840
Yeah.

1279
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:41,840
Well, whatever was going on there.

1280
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:42,840
Yeah.

1281
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,200
So it's like, just like, did Olivia Wilde just go, yeah, I want him in the bedroom.

1282
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:51,240
And that was kind of like how he got hired because originally like Shia LaBeouf and yeah,

1283
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,920
it's all like home, there's so many layers to this.

1284
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:54,920
Yeah.

1285
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:55,920
Which I don't think will ever get answered.

1286
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:56,920
I mean, yeah.

1287
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,000
And we were like talking about earlier as well, like with TikTok and like those algorithms

1288
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,920
and how you get sucked into those like spaces.

1289
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:02,920
Yeah.

1290
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,480
And like, I feel like the film wanted to talk about that.

1291
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,840
Like he literally had Discord open on his laptop.

1292
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:08,840
Yeah.

1293
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:13,400
And I was like, I would have liked to have seen more of like how that pipeline happened

1294
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,320
because you don't just wake up one day and stick your wife in the fifties.

1295
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,440
It's a very casual thing to do.

1296
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,440
There's a process.

1297
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,760
And I would have liked to have seen like, I feel like it's important to show how that

1298
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:28,440
progression happens because that happens to so many people on a day to day basis and it's

1299
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:30,920
really scary.

1300
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,840
And I kind of wish the movie was more interested in telling that side of the story, but it

1301
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,480
just, it felt very one note, unfortunately.

1302
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,920
I want to, I want to touch on cancel culture as well.

1303
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:42,920
Oh yeah.

1304
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,840
Like as something that I think about a lot and you know, we're talking about Florence

1305
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:51,120
Pugh and everything, when do you think that stuff is appropriate?

1306
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,600
Like when do you think that all of that stuff is appropriate in the way we do work?

1307
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:56,840
See, see that's interesting.

1308
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:02,960
Cause like, I think with the Olivia Wilde stuff, like she's getting like flamed online right

1309
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:03,960
now.

1310
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:04,960
Yeah.

1311
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,240
But like, I think comparatively like this Amsterdam is coming out right now and like

1312
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:13,840
that's in cinemas and that's a movie that got made by someone who is like a like abuser

1313
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:18,000
who is like openly admitted to it and is still allowed to make a movie and is like, you know,

1314
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,840
it doesn't have anywhere near the level of discourse that I've seen about Olivia Wilde.

1315
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:27,280
So it's like cancel culture is interesting because like, I feel like, you know, what's

1316
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,480
cancel culture and what's just accountability.

1317
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,440
You know, like sometimes people do shitty things and people are calling them out for

1318
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:33,440
it.

1319
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,760
You know, it's like, but then I think especially like, I don't know, like on the left side

1320
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,240
of the internet and like TikTok and Twitter is especially notorious for this where like

1321
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:51,080
people are getting like held to the fire for the things that like, you know, are quite

1322
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:55,000
minor in the grand scheme of things are more like past mistakes.

1323
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,400
And it's like a very complex world to navigate because like, you know, people make mistakes

1324
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,760
and like people should be held accountable, but it's like the level of accountability

1325
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,920
and the level of like hate is quite disproportionate to what happens.

1326
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,240
Oh, a hundred percent.

1327
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:15,400
We live in this very strange time where we just don't know quite what to do with all

1328
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:16,400
of it.

1329
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,720
And especially with cancel culture and everything.

1330
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,960
It's just a very like surreal time.

1331
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,640
It's so, yeah, the internet's a scary place.

1332
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,160
And like, it's still, I think people don't really realise that it's still new.

1333
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:29,720
Like social media is still new.

1334
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,680
We're still figuring things out.

1335
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,200
And like, there's just like so many people on these platforms now.

1336
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,480
Yeah, it's ages away.

1337
01:08:35,480 --> 01:08:41,800
Yeah, it's very, like, very fascinating topic and very, very complex, I think.

1338
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,880
Because like, I think on a certain level, people should be held accountable for things

1339
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:47,840
they say online and like things that they do.

1340
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,800
But then at what point is like that not appropriate?

1341
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:56,200
And like, you know, what point do we say like, like, you know, you've apologised, you've

1342
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,760
taken steps and you're not that person anymore and you've taken accountability.

1343
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:00,760
Yeah.

1344
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:05,600
And like, I think there's like this weird thing where it's like, we don't really know

1345
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,160
how to redeem people.

1346
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,160
Yeah.

1347
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,160
Like, I think that's a big thing.

1348
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,520
Like people will be like, quote, held accountable, but then it's like people won't actually let

1349
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,840
them go and let them kind of like return.

1350
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:22,720
And like, obviously, like, it's different to pay like some people like genuinely abuses.

1351
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:23,720
Yeah.

1352
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,560
Like that's just like a whole different thing.

1353
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,280
But like, I'm mainly talking about like, you know, not that.

1354
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,160
Like, yeah, those are kind of.

1355
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:37,400
Yeah, I think they're like very hostile and sexist and, you know, racist and awful people

1356
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:38,400
out there.

1357
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:44,480
But I also think that cancel culture in particular, we really kind of hamfist and judge and forth

1358
01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:47,000
without a lot of contextual stuff.

1359
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:53,080
And I agree with you, we are very, we are very like unnecessarily vicious with it when

1360
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,680
it comes to cancel culture and sometimes unjustly.

1361
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:56,680
Yeah.

1362
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,880
And I've had this conversation with a lot of friends where it's like, we don't really

1363
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:05,920
have like in media, a lot of like redemption stories.

1364
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:11,160
We don't have like, especially in like Western media, where it's like you'll have a character

1365
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,480
who's like, quote, like, I don't know if you've seen, have you seen She-Ra?

1366
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:15,480
Yes.

1367
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:18,200
Yeah, I've seen people be like, Katra is problematic.

1368
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,880
And it's like, yeah, she is, but she still deserves redemption.

1369
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,480
And like, that's a thing that like she's allowed.

1370
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:27,040
And like, I think, yeah, and like people will like assign like morality to like the media

1371
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,080
you watch, like it gets like super like, you know, specific and like, like, I think we

1372
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:35,720
just need more stories that have characters who fuck up and do the wrong thing and are

1373
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,560
still allowed to come back from that.

1374
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:41,000
Like, and I think it's like a big part of like, we don't know what to do with people

1375
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,520
who have messed up and like want to and like, and taking steps and they're coming back and

1376
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,440
like, we just don't know how to deal with that.

1377
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:49,040
We need things to be like, black and white.

1378
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:50,320
And like things aren't.

1379
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,960
So no, and I think, I think when you half explain a situation, it sounds worse than

1380
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:55,960
it actually is.

1381
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:01,120
Like I've had my fair few list of people who have tried to discredit me.

1382
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:06,680
And it's like, you know, whether whether that's down to actually them knowing me is the is

1383
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,840
the next question, because I think, you know, I would like to say that I'm a very honest

1384
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,440
and transparent person.

1385
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:15,000
People don't like always honesty.

1386
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,600
So therefore, they just kind of go, ah, what do I do with that?

1387
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:24,480
And then I think it's also like that thing is like, very much because I'm so honest and

1388
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:25,480
stuff.

1389
01:11:25,480 --> 01:11:29,120
I think a lot of my mental health has impacted people in a negative way where they thought

1390
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:30,700
I was oversharing.

1391
01:11:30,700 --> 01:11:36,720
And then that leads to, you know, manipulation and or like, oh, I didn't need to hear that.

1392
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:37,720
Why don't you?

1393
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:38,720
You're like, that's TMI.

1394
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,280
And it's like, oh, I was just trying to connect.

1395
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:42,920
And then they're like, back off.

1396
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:43,920
That's weird.

1397
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:44,920
Yeah, I think yes.

1398
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:50,040
I think we can talk about like fandom and characters that don't exist in real life situations.

1399
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:51,600
I think that they're different.

1400
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:56,160
But like, yeah, there's a lot of nuances to like things like, you know, trauma dumping

1401
01:11:56,160 --> 01:12:01,280
and like sharing and like, you know, like, yeah, it's I think we're still kind of learning

1402
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:07,120
what, like how to communicate that in the language that we need to use when we're sharing

1403
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:08,120
sensitive information.

1404
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:12,400
And, you know, there's going to be like, it's yeah, again, it's not all black and white.

1405
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,120
Like, sometimes you have things that you want to get off your chest.

1406
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:19,320
And it's like kind of hard to communicate, like, is this okay to share now?

1407
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:24,480
And like, it doesn't feel natural to like, be like, are you in the right space?

1408
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:28,360
Not natural, but like, it's, you know, there's a few extra steps that like come to having

1409
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:34,240
like healthy, productive mental health conversations that like just that kind of language didn't

1410
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:35,880
exist, you know, 10 years ago.

1411
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:43,240
So I think we're all still learning how to be respectful and, you know, healthy and like,

1412
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,800
yeah, you know, because obviously we all want that human connection, but it's like, you

1413
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,880
know, figuring out where people are and meeting them there.

1414
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,360
And I don't know if I'm rambling, but

1415
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:51,480
No, I love that.

1416
01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:54,960
I was also going to say, though, like, particularly when you sort of said, oh, I don't think they

1417
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:55,960
connect.

1418
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:56,960
I think they do in a way.

1419
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:57,960
Yeah.

1420
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:02,120
And I want to give you my sort of two cents thought on how I think they connect.

1421
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:03,120
Yeah.

1422
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:06,960
And I think that because of the way we process media and especially a bit like, you know,

1423
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:11,160
particularly like she, you know, shows like She-Ra and stuff, where we try and show redemption

1424
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,400
arcs and we try and show like the gray areas and everything.

1425
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:20,000
I think as a, you know, like a species, because we see as everything is very black and white,

1426
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:24,600
I think we're trying to learn through media as being like these fictional fantasy characters

1427
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:25,600
can do it.

1428
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:26,600
Why can't I?

1429
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:27,600
Yeah.

1430
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:32,120
And whether they're, you know, like it's an episodic thing, I think people just think,

1431
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:34,600
but that's only ever happens in television.

1432
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:38,640
So therefore it doesn't happen in real life and people are only black and white.

1433
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,040
So therefore, shame them instantly.

1434
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:42,040
Yeah.

1435
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:46,380
Maybe, maybe not connect is not the right word because there's definitely like what

1436
01:13:46,380 --> 01:13:47,380
you like.

1437
01:13:47,380 --> 01:13:52,600
I feel like having exposure to things in media has a massive impact on like real life things.

1438
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:53,600
Yeah.

1439
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:54,600
For sure.

1440
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:55,600
Yeah.

1441
01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:01,120
I think having, yeah, having the framework shown in media is super important.

1442
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,200
Even if it's like a fantasy kid show like she wrote, like it is important to have characters

1443
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:05,720
like Katra who fuck up.

1444
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:06,720
Yeah.

1445
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:13,320
And like she is evil and she does evil things, but she still deserves redemption.

1446
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:17,520
But then like, yeah, like it's not like one for one to real life, I guess is what I was

1447
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:18,520
saying.

1448
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:19,520
But like, yeah, for sure.

1449
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,760
We definitely need, I, I'm a big advocate for like, you know, situations that are messy

1450
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:27,920
and complex and like that needs to be shown in like characters who are messy and complex

1451
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,520
still deserve, you know, love.

1452
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:35,920
And like care and like it's important to show that and to show like characters having, you

1453
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,320
know, that redemption for sure.

1454
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:43,320
Like I've seen like with Heartbreak High, a lot of discourse around Harper, which I hate

1455
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:48,920
because like you can have a character like Harper who does horrible things and like fucks

1456
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:53,500
up and like, you know, is like really mean to her best friend and like does things that

1457
01:14:53,500 --> 01:14:56,920
like are so like, you know, like why would she do that?

1458
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:58,640
And you're watching and you're like, why is she doing this?

1459
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,240
She doesn't deserve like Anne-Marie's friendship.

1460
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,840
And like, I've seen a lot of that kind of commentary and it's like, no, but like she

1461
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,560
does, you know, she can't like Anne-Marie is allowed to forgive her and she's, she's

1462
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,040
allowed to choose that.

1463
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:14,520
And it's like, I think that's important to show like you can mess up and people can still

1464
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:15,520
come back to you.

1465
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:16,520
You know what I mean?

1466
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:19,480
Like, I think that's a really important thing to show in media, especially like coming of

1467
01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:20,760
age stuff for sure.

1468
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:21,760
Yeah, absolutely.

1469
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:28,360
It's like I am comfortable talking about actually it's tendentially related to mental health.

1470
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,160
I think I don't know if you've had a similar experience or you know, people have had a

1471
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,080
similar experience with lockdown, we're talking about like gender and stuff, but I also like

1472
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,760
came to the realization that I'm probably neurodivergent.

1473
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:38,760
Really?

1474
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:39,760
Yeah.

1475
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:40,760
That's it.

1476
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:42,840
That's that's in what capacity?

1477
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:47,040
Like I initially I was thinking ADHD.

1478
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:52,160
However, like, I don't know, I'm going to try to get like properly diagnosed.

1479
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,640
And I feel like it's a good thing to bring up just because like, I feel like it's had

1480
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,840
a massive impact on my creativity, and just how I like process like writing and stuff.

1481
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,800
But also think like I may be on the like autism spectrum.

1482
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:03,920
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1483
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:08,760
Yeah, it's just like something like I know I'm definitely in the space of neurodiverse.

1484
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,760
Yeah.

1485
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:14,880
No, there's like a little clock in your head that goes, this makes sense.

1486
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:19,400
Yeah, it's like to the point where I like, I was heartbreak high and I was crying because

1487
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,640
I'm like, oh, this is me.

1488
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,680
And you see that like, it's Yeah, and it was such a good reminder.

1489
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:27,920
It's like why, like representation is so important.

1490
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,360
Because I'm like, oh, like, I've never seen like an autistic female character on screen

1491
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:32,360
before.

1492
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:33,800
And I was relating to a lot of it.

1493
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:37,360
And I was like, wow, like, this would have been so awesome to have growing up because

1494
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,160
I felt like I was going crazy.

1495
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:40,160
I love that.

1496
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,040
I mean, like, do you I have ADHD?

1497
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:47,600
What in particular kind of triggered you to think you had attention deficit hyperactivity

1498
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:48,600
disorder?

1499
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:49,600
Yeah, I think.

1500
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:54,080
And like, I think a lot of my symptoms like overlap, like ADHD and autism and you know,

1501
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,080
all that fun stuff.

1502
01:16:55,080 --> 01:17:00,640
But like, executive dysfunction, I've definitely got like, that a lot.

1503
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:01,640
Really?

1504
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:08,360
Yeah, I'm just like, like, time, I have a bad like habit, like, I can't process time.

1505
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:10,440
I feel like I don't, I never know when to leave.

1506
01:17:10,440 --> 01:17:14,400
I never know, like, I never get to places on time.

1507
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:17,520
Like I will, I will place things down and forget that they're there.

1508
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,880
And like, yeah, just like things like, like my Mikey, are you going to Mikey and Sydney?

1509
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:27,880
But like my Mikey card, I think I've lost like four Mikeys in one week before.

1510
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:28,880
Wow.

1511
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:34,400
So now to keep it like in the back of my phone case, just so like, it's there and I don't

1512
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,400
forget it.

1513
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:38,920
And it's like, yeah, like, I'll forget like meals.

1514
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,160
Like, just, you know, all the fun stuff.

1515
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:43,160
Oh, my God.

1516
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,400
I got like, I have massive hyper fixations.

1517
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,520
I've had hyper, like really intense hyper fixations, like since I was a kid.

1518
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,960
Like that's my probably my big, like, this is probably me being neurodivergent.

1519
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:52,960
Yeah.

1520
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:57,600
And then like, I've just like, sensory issues and like social, social cues, like I struggle

1521
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,080
with a little bit and just like a whole, a whole like boatload of things.

1522
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,560
And I'm like, hmm, this is interesting.

1523
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:08,120
Can I just say this makes you like, this is probably why I relate to you a lot.

1524
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:11,160
Just to like, oh yeah, you make total sense to me.

1525
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:12,160
Yeah, twinsies.

1526
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:17,520
Yeah, I like it, I think it's also interesting because I often say this about people with

1527
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:18,520
ADHD.

1528
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:19,520
We're very good at reading people.

1529
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,560
We don't actually miss that many social cues.

1530
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,840
Yeah, see, I am not.

1531
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:24,840
Really?

1532
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:31,040
No, like I, I have this thing like, especially around like romantic and like sexual stuff.

1533
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,120
Like I never, I can never understand those cues.

1534
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,600
Like I just, over my head, never.

1535
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:39,000
Do you think you, do you think there's part of you that's a bit demi then?

1536
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:43,560
I think, I think it's like partly neurodiverse and partly like, I think I'm probably on the

1537
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:44,560
ACE spectrum.

1538
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:49,240
Like maybe demi, like it takes a lot for me to catch feelings.

1539
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:53,840
And I'm also so terrible at picking up when people are like putting out vibes.

1540
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:55,880
You and Em should have a field day.

1541
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:56,880
Like.

1542
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:03,840
Yeah, it's like, I've had like, retroactively, I'm like, why did I think that that was not

1543
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:04,840
someone hitting on me?

1544
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:07,440
Like people would come up to me in bars and I would just have a conversation with them

1545
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:09,440
like, can I get your number?

1546
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:10,880
And I'm like, no, I don't want to give you my number.

1547
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,480
Like, well, I thought we were just having a chat.

1548
01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:16,040
Like it's happened like, yeah.

1549
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,920
Like, and just, no, like I just, I can't read it.

1550
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:19,920
Like I just, I don't know.

1551
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:20,920
I don't know.

1552
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:22,920
It's like my brain just doesn't.

1553
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:23,920
Yeah.

1554
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:24,920
It goes what?

1555
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:25,920
Yeah.

1556
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:26,920
It's like what?

1557
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:27,920
Like I just want to have a chat.

1558
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,160
Like I don't want to, like, I don't want this to go anywhere.

1559
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,360
I'm just like, I want to have a chat.

1560
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,920
Like I'm always down for a chat and nothing more.

1561
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,760
I love how wholesome that sounds.

1562
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:40,760
The best kind of guy.

1563
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,280
But like, it's actually so disappointing.

1564
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:47,280
I remember like the other day I was at a train stop and a guy came up to me and started chatting.

1565
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:51,080
He actually asked me, like we were near a bar and he's like, have you been there before?

1566
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:52,680
And I was just like, oh my God, like, yeah, I've been there.

1567
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:53,680
Like they have really good cocktail jugs.

1568
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,280
And I was just chatting to him and he's like, do you want to go there with me now?

1569
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,160
And I'm like, oh, that's what that was.

1570
01:19:58,160 --> 01:19:59,160
Like we weren't just like chatting.

1571
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:00,160
He was trying to flirt.

1572
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,320
And I was really disappointed because I was like, I just wanted to like, I'm always happy

1573
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:05,320
to chat.

1574
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,040
I love how upfront that is.

1575
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:08,040
Oh yeah.

1576
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,800
I was like, maybe that's just like, not even a neurodivergent thing.

1577
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,680
Maybe that's just like, this guy was like very pushed.

1578
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:16,560
Like I was like, it was 1pm on a Wednesday and I'm like, I don't really want to go to

1579
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:20,160
a bar right now.

1580
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,720
Actually I don't know if you're from Melbourne or if people from Melbourne, like they will

1581
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,040
know it was, he asked about the Asian beer cafe.

1582
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:27,560
So like that was like the level.

1583
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,160
It was like 1pm on a Wednesday.

1584
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,000
I don't even know I'm talking about this now, but it's like, it's been living in my head

1585
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,480
because I'm like, wow, I did not pick up.

1586
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:36,960
Oh my God.

1587
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:37,960
Yeah.

1588
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,120
I actually love that was a really awkward thing because wait, I'm going to tell the

1589
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:42,120
story.

1590
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:43,120
Can I tell you?

1591
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:44,120
Yeah.

1592
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:45,120
Yeah.

1593
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:46,120
Yeah.

1594
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:47,120
Go, go, go.

1595
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:48,120
I was like waiting for my friend.

1596
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:49,120
I was like sitting down and like this dude, like he came and sat next to me and he sat

1597
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:50,120
like really close to me.

1598
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,840
And so I tried to move away from him, but because I was already sitting on like on the

1599
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:53,840
edge of the chair, I fell off.

1600
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:54,840
What?

1601
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:55,840
I'm like, Oh my God.

1602
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:02,000
And then so I sat back up on the chair and then like, I was like, ha, like I fell off.

1603
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:03,000
And he's like, yeah, that was funny.

1604
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:04,000
And I was like, yeah.

1605
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,720
And he's like, we literally talked for 10 minutes.

1606
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:09,800
And then I was like, this is fun.

1607
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,120
And like, I was glad that he was, I was like, oh, he's chatting to me because like he's

1608
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,880
embarrassed that I like fell off the chair and he's trying to make it less awkward.

1609
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,000
But in actuality, he probably sat that close to me because he wanted to get my number.

1610
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:22,000
Wow.

1611
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:23,000
Oh my God.

1612
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,000
I think you're my new favorite person.

1613
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:33,400
Please tell me like, always feed me stories like this because that is incredible.

1614
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:39,040
I feel like I'm constantly in like that specific situation that happens to me all the time.

1615
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:42,000
And like my response is just double down and be more embarrassing.

1616
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,000
You're like, Oh God.

1617
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:45,000
Oh no.

1618
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:46,000
Yeah.

1619
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:49,000
I was like, how can I make this like worse for me?

1620
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,000
I would just chat to this guy for 10 minutes.

1621
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,560
Like it's like, Oh my God.

1622
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:59,960
I'm going to use this weird story to wrap us up on a perfect note.

1623
01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:02,360
It's a great note.

1624
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:10,400
Please promise me, write a short film based on your bad attempts.

1625
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:13,640
Maybe I would just like, yeah, start a blog and I'd be like, was this person hitting on

1626
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:14,640
me?

1627
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:15,640
Question.

1628
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:16,640
Yeah.

1629
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:17,640
Yeah.

1630
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:18,640
Write a blog or write a few prose about it.

1631
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:21,080
Cause you know, it'll work.

1632
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:30,840
I'm sure people are very, very, very interested in my lack of love life.

1633
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:31,840
That's not true.

1634
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:32,840
I'm sure though.

1635
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:34,680
I'm sure they want to hear all about your romantic endeavours.

1636
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,560
All the juicy, juicy details, all the seats I've fallen off.

1637
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:40,000
Oh my God.

1638
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,800
Oh my God.

1639
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,600
Question for you next Alice is where on the internet can people stalk you?

1640
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,880
Where can they find you?

1641
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:50,640
Which is the perfect dating segue.

1642
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:51,640
Yes.

1643
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:52,640
Okay.

1644
01:22:52,640 --> 01:23:01,000
I don't really have a, I want Instagram, but it's like a private account, but like

1645
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:02,000
I will accept a follow.

1646
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:06,000
Cause as I said, I'm always down for a chat.

1647
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,960
So it's alice underscore underscore smiles.

1648
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:09,960
Love it.

1649
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:10,960
Yeah.

1650
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:17,560
And then go and go and stalk them, go and find them, follow and get a request, send

1651
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:18,560
the request off.

1652
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:22,880
I don't actually, I've only recently got a PR, um, like a private one.

1653
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,440
So I'm, I'm getting used to that.

1654
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:27,640
Like accepting people and not accepting people.

1655
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:32,200
Like I did used to have a public, but then like you get like a million random people

1656
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,160
following you and it's like, yeah.

1657
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,520
And most of them were just like, yeah.

1658
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:37,520
Oh my God.

1659
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:38,520
Yeah.

1660
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:39,520
Literally.

1661
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:40,520
They're just like bots.

1662
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:41,520
And it's like, why are you here?

1663
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:42,520
I know.

1664
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,280
And so many of those bots would grab my friend's identities and I was like, what the fuck?

1665
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:46,280
So weird.

1666
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:47,280
Yeah.

1667
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:48,280
Oh, the internet.

1668
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:49,280
I know.

1669
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:51,640
Um, but thank you so much for joining me.

1670
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:52,640
It's been an absolute pleasure.

1671
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,520
Thank you for having me.

1672
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:56,640
I hope that wasn't too rambly.

1673
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:58,080
No, I loved it.

1674
01:23:58,080 --> 01:23:59,280
I loved every second of it.

1675
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,480
I had a great time and I hope you didn't mind to the fact that Eddie, my little doggy is

1676
01:24:03,480 --> 01:24:05,400
being like quite pedantic in the corner.

1677
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,320
So hopefully he wasn't too interrupty.

1678
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,760
No, he was wonderful.

1679
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:15,840
Um, but no, and if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, you

1680
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,720
can check them out on Apple and Spotify.

1681
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:22,800
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later.

1682
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:23,800
Goodbye.

1683
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:50,640
Let's all laugh!