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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend all the way in Melbourne, Tamsen Hayes.

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Hello Tamsen.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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I'm good.

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I'm very good.

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I know you just mentioned, and I don't know whether I'll include it in the episode, but

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I know you just mentioned you've been on a four day in a theatre going crazy.

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Yes.

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Crazy in a good way.

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Yeah.

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Love being in a theatre.

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It's just one of those weeks where it's been like 10 to 11pm, as in 10am to 11pm, being

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in like the one black box.

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Yeah.

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I'm just, I'm just very thirsty.

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Oh no, that came out so wrong.

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I'm just tired and I've been using my voice a lot and it was dusty and I think I'm just

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going to be drinking a lot of water.

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I'm happy.

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I'm good.

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It's a good time.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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And then, you know, just hydrate.

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It's always important.

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I feel like it's number one priority.

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So Tamsen, first question, first question predominantly.

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Tell everyone in the audience, tell all the listeners who you are and what you do.

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All right.

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My name is Tamsen Hayes.

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I am an actor by love and passion and I'm a writer for the same reasons when I can,

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but that's a newer skills that I'm developing.

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And then by day, like I'm a superhero, my day job is I work in reality TV.

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Wow.

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That's the, okay.

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That's a part that's so cool.

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In what aspect of reality TV?

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Mainly in art department.

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Oh sick.

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So where did that, did that come like just out of a trajectory in your like life choices

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or?

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Yeah, definitely.

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I guess I was for so long just in the hospitality life doing, trying to do as much acting stuff

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in the day and hospitality at night.

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And it got to a point where I couldn't do it anymore.

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I just mentally could not handle.

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The hospital basically it got too much, I'd been doing it for too long.

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I really wanted to find a balance where I really loved my, I don't know what else to

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call it for lack there, like lack of a better word day job for an actor.

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It's like the, the, the main income source, I guess is the better way to put it.

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I wanted to find something that I loved doing and I love being around film and TV and I've

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always loved like being creative.

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I do have, I know I have skills in visual arts.

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I grew up, my dad was a painter and a sculptor and I grew up kind of around that.

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So I do know I have that, that eye and I don't know, I put the two together and wanted to

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work around crews and I wanted to work on set, but I didn't want to work very specifically.

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I didn't want to work around a set where there was actors because I didn't know if I could

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handle if I ever felt jealous or not.

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I didn't think I could handle that being a thing I was around all the time and wishing

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I was in a different job to what I do.

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So yeah, reality TV just works for me.

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That's interesting that you say all that, cause I feel like that's why I work in like

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news predominantly, cause it's the most uncreative thing and it's so mundane.

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So it's kind of good cause then I can do creative things outside of my normal day job to be

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more fulfilling.

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But you're still around, you're still in the industry.

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You're still around the production life of it all.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's very true.

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And I think that's very like wise cause like a lot of people tend not to see that as an

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option where you're still kind of, you have other skills.

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Like some people just go, I'm solo an actor and that's all I'll ever do.

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And like acting and obviously the creative arts is like such a tough industry that even

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like actually big actors, unless they're getting offered roles or sometimes sit and have to

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make their own stuff because it keeps them all like do a side job.

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When you were young though, like was it always, did you know which one came first in terms

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of your skillset or was it always just like acting came first?

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That's so funny.

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Acting always came first, but visual arts was very, very close second.

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And cause I started, I started drama classes when I was about like a silly age to start

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drama classes.

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They had like a, like a toddler drama class at the local church hall or something in my

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little town.

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And my mum just popped me in there on a Saturday morning and that, that's, I think I was almost

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four, like three and a half, four, like a silly age to be doing anything like that.

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But I was probably just games honestly at that time, but I stayed there until I was

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too old and then just found other drama classes.

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So I've, I've always done acting in some form, but then yeah, I grew up with so much visual

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arts around me all the time and it got to my final year of high school.

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And I think I knew, I mean, I know I knew that I wanted to, I wanted to go to acting

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school after, but I did have a big moment of, I don't know which direction I'm going

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to take.

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And so I did my, you know, like in VCE or your final year of high school, I did the

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visual arts subject and I did an acting subject.

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And I said, whichever one I get the best marks in is the one I'm going to go for.

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And yeah, it was acting, but it was very close.

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I was like, I don't, I don't know, this is hard, but I think I always knew, but I get

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to do both now, which is fun.

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Yeah.

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I mean like that's, that's awesome though, because you know, like to have those skillsets,

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especially your, you know, it's just one of those things that I feel is like wild.

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Cause do you think you will go through like maybe at some point and then just solely focus

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on visual arts for a while and not do acting for a bit?

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I don't think so.

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I don't think my skillset has developed to that point.

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I mean, I know I used to draw a lot and I used to paint, but I don't, I think I've

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lost a lot of that.

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But the thing I haven't lost is like my ability to put, put visual scenes together and solve

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creative problems, if that makes sense.

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So basically I, I use my creative skills when I make my own work.

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So I have my own theatre show and I do all the art direction.

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I have a, you know, I have other sorts of theatre where I've put on multiple fringe

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shows and I just do all of the art direction and set and all of the stuff.

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I get people to help, but it's always my vision.

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I was like, you're like a powerhouse.

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I just love it.

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I just really like it.

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I mean, that's great though.

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Like it's, it's good to not stop.

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And I commend you enormously.

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It's a skill that I think a lot of people will probably be very envious of.

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Do you, do you feel like, I guess that ever, like even with people helping though, do you

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ever get to a point where I guess you're sort of feeling that you're burning candles at

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both ends?

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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But I'm too much of a, I'm too specific.

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Yeah.

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And when I have a vision, if it's my project, if it's other people's projects and that's

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not my role in that, that's so fine.

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I just do my thing, my, my role as well as I can.

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And I'm happy with that.

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But if it's my work, so for example, there's a Fringe show that'll be over by the time

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this comes out, but that I wrote and I'm in, I have a director and a producer and all

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that jazz, but it's, I see it in my head.

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So I do tend to make creative decisions or I'm very particular with the creative decisions

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that I want to make in the show.

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I need it to look a certain way because I see the whole thing in my mind.

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It's funny as well, because like I think, it was one of the things that I, you know,

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if anyone's gone and stalked Tamsin online, your whole Instagram is very like visual art.

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Thank you.

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It's like stunning.

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And I think it's sort of very interesting because you know, like you're very catered

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to a distinct like direction or you can kind of see inside your mind.

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But you also have a very good like social media presence.

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Yeah, I feel like my Instagram is definitely my creative outlet for sure.

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Because it's something I can work, that just feels like an, like a visual diary to me.

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That's how I use it.

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Yeah.

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It just always needs to kind of be in theme.

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It needs to kind of be like my brain has exploded into a place.

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It's so nice to have that.

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Because I don't know where else I can do that.

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In my diaries I used to.

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That's what all of my diaries used to look like.

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But yeah, it's nice to have another place now.

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Yeah, because I mean like when you were little, I guess, do you have old books and stuff that

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you've kind of, because I know like when I was a kid, I used to draw in books.

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Like even if it wasn't mine, I'd just grab a book and start drawing and doodling.

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Do you have a lot of books that you've kind of just doodled in since you were little?

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I don't have anything since I was really little, but yeah, my mum has lots of that stuff kind

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of kept.

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But diaries from high school I still have up until now.

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And they used to be between a diary and a scrapbook, I suppose.

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Yeah.

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Where it's like I'd get magazines.

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And if I wanted to write a diary entry, I would cut out pictures from the magazines

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and first like make a whole page of colour or words or whatever that fit in theme with

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whatever I was about to write on that page.

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Like it's a lot.

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Wow.

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It'd be like a whole activity.

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I'm like the page can't be white.

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It has to be in theme for how I'm feeling today.

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And all of my feelings will come out as long as there's the proper border cut out from

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the right magazine with like a heading that I found in like Frankie or something that

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makes sense to what I'm writing about.

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It's a lot.

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It was a lot to keep up with, honestly.

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I don't do it as much anymore.

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I mean, I am loving all this because it's just I really want to now just look at your

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diaries for that very purpose of the visual aesthetic.

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Yeah.

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Because that's astonishing.

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I mean, like though, do you do you feel like that's affected?

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Like, because you mentioned writing was quite a new skill, especially now that's something

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you want to get into.

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Do you think that's sort of another outlet of things that you kind of want to focus on

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and sort of have creative control over?

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Writing really came because I just wanted more autonomy in making work that I wanted

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to perform.

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And it just felt like the easiest way to do a show or do a web series in which I got to

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play a character that I wanted to play was that I just do it.

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You can't wait for other people to write the thing that you want to perform.

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They can't read inside your head, you know?

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No.

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Yeah.

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So sometimes you just have to do it.

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Yeah.

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That's honestly where it came from.

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I was like, I have these ideas.

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I really want to make a show that's this.

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But it's not coming to me or it's not happening or I don't know how to audition for that and

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I don't know who's putting that on.

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It's like, well, no one is, Tamsen.

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You made it up.

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Write it down.

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You have to do it.

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You're the only person that can do it.

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It exists inside your brain.

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You can't expect some theatre company holding open auditions over there to be doing the

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thing that's inside your brain.

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So do it.

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I don't know.

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It just seems like the only option sometimes.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that is great though, because it really means you're not waiting.

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Because I think the problem we have, especially in the industry, is there is this taught mentality

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of just wait for the opportunities.

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Have you always been like, never wait though?

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Have you always, always there a time where you were just like, I'm going to kind of hope?

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I don't think so.

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Not that I have, not that I have the capacity to put on heaps of projects myself all the

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time at all, but I feel like I always have something that I am working on autonomously

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to fulfill that creative kind of need, I guess.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I guess also the thing is, do you feel like when it came to casting and stuff, did you

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get roles particularly that you didn't feel were you or very much people put you into

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categories because it based on your appearance and everything?

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Sometimes, yeah.

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I do feel that sometimes, but it's hard because I feel like I am so, I change so much.

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I'm really into this thing.

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I really want to explore it.

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And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, actually I really want to do this other thing now,

240
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,080
something totally different.

241
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,800
So it's not so much that the industry is putting me into a box, but I understand where that

242
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,720
question comes from because that is such an experience of so many performers.

243
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:44,400
But I purely think it's just me being like, I have an idea that I want to explore.

244
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,520
I should do it.

245
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,960
I don't think it comes from not getting what I want out of the industry.

246
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:55,840
I think it comes from just being ready because you can't wait for other people to be ready

247
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:56,840
for you.

248
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,440
If you're like, oh, I have this idea.

249
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I really want to do it.

250
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,640
I think I can do it.

251
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,560
I'm just going to start writing it, start putting it on, start talking to people, see

252
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:06,720
what happens.

253
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,360
I have this much money saved up at the moment.

254
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,360
Okay, cool.

255
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:13,360
Let's use it.

256
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,360
What can we do?

257
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,520
Or you just really want to do something.

258
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:23,560
So like, for example, as soon as I finished acting school, me and two of my closest classmates

259
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,760
were so keen to do something straight away.

260
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,380
And it takes a while after acting school.

261
00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:32,720
Some things happen, some things don't.

262
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,880
But after you are working in such a creative, nonstop energy for years where you're constantly

263
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,800
making stuff, all of a sudden that ends.

264
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,360
Where do you get that feed from?

265
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,480
Do you just go into this waiting period that you were talking about before, or you do something

266
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:48,480
about it?

267
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,120
And the three of us were like, I don't want to sit around.

268
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,480
I have so much energy.

269
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,080
We're all so excited to jump out into this industry.

270
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,080
Let's just do something.

271
00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,960
So we just got together constantly, twice, three times a week, and wrote a web series.

272
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,920
And then we made a pilot and then we used that to get funding and we made the rest of

273
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:06,920
it.

274
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,920
It doesn't need to win awards.

275
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:08,920
It doesn't need to be the best thing ever.

276
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,800
It was something that felt like it was feeding us creatively.

277
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,240
We all wrote our own characters.

278
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,040
We were like, this is the type of character I want to do to be seen as my first thing

279
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,040
in the industry.

280
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,040
And went from there.

281
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,120
And then all of a sudden we had this great show, real material, but also this thing that

282
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,680
we were pitching to festivals and we got made.

283
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,760
So we met all these other people in the industry in a similar place to us.

284
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,600
And it was just, I don't know, kind of always, I just like making stuff.

285
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,440
I was the kid with the camera who had their friends over on the weekends and just made

286
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,080
them make films with them.

287
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,400
They're terrible, but it's fun.

288
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:56,520
I love that mentality as well, to not always make stuff that is, I guess, star star quality

289
00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,200
or like, because I'm very similar to you.

290
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:07,000
I'm very much in that mentality of how you make stuff is dependent on what you really

291
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,360
want to make and you just do it.

292
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,200
And like not everyone's like that.

293
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,600
Obviously it's not as simple as just making something and people going, oh yeah, this

294
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,600
is a fun experience.

295
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:23,480
Like obviously it takes a positive kind of team of creatives to kind of be like, hey,

296
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,960
let's all band together.

297
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,080
I mean, that is it.

298
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,900
Do you find yourself trying to encourage people as well with that mentality that you meet

299
00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:35,900
these days?

300
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,840
I mean, it's a good time because people are like, especially this show that I'm doing

301
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,240
in Fringe, a lot of people come up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe

302
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,160
you're doing a one woman show when you wrote it yourself.

303
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,160
Like that's so impressive.

304
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,160
I'm like, is it?

305
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,640
I just wrote it in my bedroom.

306
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:57,720
Like, just, and then I found people to help me and I asked them questions and then I found

307
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,160
someone who I trusted to see if they'd direct it for me and they did.

308
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,560
And then we just worked on it for a long time until it got to a point where it felt okay

309
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,280
and it felt good.

310
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,240
And then you just keep asking people to see it or look at it or ask people questions about

311
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,080
it and go, is this something?

312
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,520
Is this, is this thing?

313
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,920
I like it, but do you like it?

314
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,560
Or should this just be something I did for myself and that's enough?

315
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:21,560
Or like, should this go further?

316
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:22,560
Like, what do you think?

317
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:28,240
You just ask people that you trust and then you say, and yeah, it's, it's been amazing.

318
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:34,520
And I've done that for a few projects now from, from weird things to like, um, I'll

319
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:40,560
just say, I was working at a shop that had a really huge big front window and a Melbourne

320
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:46,280
Fringe was coming up and I said to my friend, how funny would it be if we just turned this

321
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,080
window into a room and we lived here for like a week?

322
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:51,080
That would be a Fringe show.

323
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,200
And she was like, yeah, that would be a really interesting Fringe show.

324
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,200
So we just did it.

325
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,400
Like, cool, we're going to live in this window for a week.

326
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,920
And then we sat down and we figured out like, why are we doing this?

327
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:01,920
Does this have a point?

328
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,520
How do we make this have a point?

329
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,400
What we came up with, I thought was really great.

330
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,560
And then, yeah, we did it.

331
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,560
I don't know.

332
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:09,560
You see something that's inspiring.

333
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,720
I saw this big window that got used for all sorts of displays and all sorts of things.

334
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,720
And I don't know.

335
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,720
I was like, if I could put something in this window, what would it be?

336
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,720
Yeah.

337
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,160
And, and as part of my job was I would decorate the window or make scenes and make it look

338
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,160
cute.

339
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,240
And I came up with heaps of different shows I could put on in this window.

340
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,160
Um, there's still a few I would really love to do, but they didn't happen and that's fine.

341
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,320
I'll keep them for another window one day.

342
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,800
I think what I love at the moment, I'm just watching your eyes as well, because I can,

343
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,800
I can see Tansyn in, in my little visual screen, but I, what I love is literally watching how

344
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:50,000
your brain neurons fire of like how you'll think of one idea and then you'll think of

345
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,360
another idea and then you'll like fire.

346
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:59,040
It's, it's so unique because I feel like that is you, I would describe you as a very out

347
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,480
of the box kind of thinker.

348
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,480
That's so nice.

349
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,480
Thank you.

350
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,480
Like what, you know, like what can I do?

351
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:05,480
What can I change?

352
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,400
What can I make inspiring, interesting, you know, what, what speaks to me, what speaks

353
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,400
to others?

354
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:17,140
Like you're constantly, I can see the cogs like moving in your head and kind of the ideas

355
00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:20,720
and the, um, firing in there.

356
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,800
It's kind of, I mean, a surreal experience as well.

357
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,800
Do you, do you find like, did it take you a while as well to communicate ideas in your

358
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,640
head to other people?

359
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,640
Did that feel like that was a journey?

360
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,640
Yeah, definitely.

361
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,640
That's such a confidence thing.

362
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:40,200
I think, yeah, the amount of things that I can get inspired by or think about, I don't,

363
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,640
I can't share them all.

364
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:48,040
Some of them are, you know, they're nonsense, but occasionally, occasionally it just takes

365
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,920
one conversation where you go, what is this?

366
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,640
What is this that I am thinking about?

367
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,640
Is this a thing?

368
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,640
Is this, is this nonsense or is this, is this something I should keep thinking about?

369
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,320
And then, yeah, sometimes things just happen.

370
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:05,320
And flow.

371
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,320
Yeah.

372
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,240
And also sometimes it comes from something that's been in your head for a while or that's

373
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,840
been nagging at you for a long time.

374
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,840
I did this one show, um, again, for Fringe.

375
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,840
Fringe is great.

376
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:24,880
Um, a few years ago now, probably six or seven years ago now, I did it because I had done

377
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:32,280
it in high school and it had stuck with me and I'd constantly seen this image repeat.

378
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,200
We did, we did it in high school and I loved it as a play then and it stayed with me for

379
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,560
so long, but I kept seeing it in a different way.

380
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,720
And I kept being like, if I could do that again, this is what I think it should look

381
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:44,720
like.

382
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,360
Or if I was directing that, this is what it should look like.

383
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,960
If I got to be the art director on that, this is how it should be.

384
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,680
And then just got to a point and I was with some actor friends and I was like, I have

385
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,840
to tell you something, I've been thinking about this show for so long, like 10 years,

386
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,080
actually not that long, but for years.

387
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,520
Can you just sit and just listen to me talk about it for a minute?

388
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,260
And then you go, okay, it's a show, it's about Greek gods.

389
00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:11,920
This is the way the play works, but I kind of want to flip it and change heaps of the

390
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:18,960
genders and insert circus and make a giant cloud out of whatever stuffing, whatever I

391
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,120
can find, but also do it outside.

392
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,080
Is that, is that a thing?

393
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,440
Is that something or is that not, is that like terms and you are losing your mind or

394
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,080
is that something I can do?

395
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,600
And then they went, I think you can do that.

396
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,360
I was like, all right, okay, I'm going to do it.

397
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,960
And then just conversation.

398
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:42,960
Can I just say, I love the way you think as well, like how, you know, it is, it is entirely

399
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,400
how I think and nothing is saying.

400
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,600
Because I think it's one of those things that I do agree with you with, like you sort of

401
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,960
think of an idea that's, you know, a few years old.

402
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,880
I've got like ideas in the back of my head that I've been thinking about and ruminating

403
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,720
for years.

404
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,880
And you know, the amount of conversations I've had with friends going, does this idea

405
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:07,880
work?

406
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,280
Does this idea work back to the drawing board?

407
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,840
You know, like what flows, what doesn't flow?

408
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:20,760
And I think, you know, it comes down to, well, like one of my really good friends is an amazing

409
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,960
person and he is an amazing writer as well.

410
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,440
And whenever I pitch an idea to him, he's just like, brilliant, let's do it.

411
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,480
And it's sort of like, you need those people to just be like, you can do this because there's

412
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,360
a lot of nos, I guess, that come out of like, no, it's too expensive.

413
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:40,640
No, it's, you know, like too difficult.

414
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,640
Like, totally.

415
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,840
Yeah, it's, it's, I feel like it kind of makes the industry a bit disheartening.

416
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,400
Because I think, you know, and it was one of those conversations that, you know, when

417
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,320
I, before I had started even this podcast, I remember sitting down, I had afternoon tea

418
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,840
with my mother and I said to her, I was like sitting in a cafe and I was like, I'm going

419
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,320
to do a podcast about the arts industry.

420
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,760
And she went, oh God, really?

421
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,340
And I said, yeah, like, it's a great idea.

422
00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:14,600
Chat to people about art and you know, and like the pros and cons about art and you know,

423
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,280
the identity issues.

424
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,480
And she was like, oh, you know, like, are they going to be really interested in what

425
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:21,480
you say?

426
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,800
I was like, look, okay, thanks.

427
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,360
But it was like this long conversation, whereas I think like from the perspective of my mom,

428
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,280
who is always a bit more of a live in a book than it is to kind of, I think, and she's

429
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,680
a bit of an academic, so it's like, she's less interested in the creative side of things

430
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,400
and more just interested in certain aspects of people's lives.

431
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,640
But I was like, I remember mentioning into my partner and a few other friends, and they

432
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,760
were like, this is a great idea, just go and do it.

433
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,980
And they kind of, but then you had the conversation of like, oh, there are other people already

434
00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:54,980
doing it.

435
00:23:54,980 --> 00:23:55,980
Why would you do it?

436
00:23:55,980 --> 00:23:59,920
Like if you're against competition, I was like, well, you know, why not?

437
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:00,920
Like exactly.

438
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,720
Yeah, it's, it's half the, half the fun I find is meeting people like yourself, where

439
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:13,800
it's like, you get to dive into someone's brain and understand how they tick.

440
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,680
And if that's not something like that, I, you know, been doing it for two years, I think

441
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,920
at this point I should love it.

442
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:22,920
And I do.

443
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,440
And I think it's more enjoyable than some of the things that I do day to day.

444
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:33,400
And that is like the thing, like the thrive of coming here, doing recording this, even

445
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,320
though it's months in advance, like, and we're recording this at 6pm.

446
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,160
And just going, let's have a, let's have a yawn.

447
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,960
I think is the more, more exciting thing.

448
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,600
Cause I look forward to it, whether I've gotten up like for work, it's stipulate hours in

449
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,600
the morning.

450
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,600
I look forward to this element of my day where I get to do the thing that I love and you

451
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,480
know, and then really kind of dive into it.

452
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,680
And I think if, you know, no one can take that away from us.

453
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,880
Like no one can take that joy of doing the things that we love away from us.

454
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,160
That's the most important thing about it.

455
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,160
It's the joy.

456
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,160
Yeah.

457
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:13,280
Like I think, I think with you as well, because, um, and correct me if I'm wrong, like feel

458
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,520
afraid to correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like, you know, because you're such a positive

459
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,880
outlook on, on things, I feel like, did that take you a while to get here?

460
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,400
Because I don't like to be always quite a positive person.

461
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:35,960
Um, I, I feel like I'm not always positive, totally.

462
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:47,920
But I think as long as I am, as long as I have a project that I am getting creative

463
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:57,600
satisfaction out of, it's a lot easier to, to stay positive and feel the joy, I guess,

464
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,520
every week or every day or however much you need it.

465
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:09,760
It's like, if you are working on something that you love, that you believe in, it's a

466
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,760
lot easier.

467
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:19,800
I think that's why I like even finding a job that feels more fulfilling in a way than something,

468
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,240
for me, it was hospitality, something that wasn't really bringing me anything.

469
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,920
It felt like something I had to go to, something I was watching the clock at, something that

470
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840
I didn't get anything from.

471
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:40,800
I made good friends, totally, but it just felt draining, I guess, not fulfilling in

472
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,800
any way.

473
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,280
I felt like I expended, expended a lot of energy and when I get to do something a bit

474
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:53,680
creative, it feeds me and I think that makes everything a bit easier.

475
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:04,360
But then if I think about the future and if I think about the place where I don't have

476
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:10,320
any performing going on at a time, then that makes me sad.

477
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,000
I have to always have a performance aspect in some way.

478
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,480
Not necessarily performance, performance on a stage or in front of a camera being like

479
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,160
here's the lines, here's the script.

480
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,360
It's more like, I guess it's more like connection and storytelling where it's me and I'm not

481
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:31,160
facilitating it necessarily for someone else, which is what I feel like my kind of day job

482
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,880
is, which is fine, as long as I also get to do that in some way through me.

483
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:37,880
Does that make sense?

484
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:38,880
That was a really convoluted answer.

485
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,880
No, I love that.

486
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,360
It made me think of a lot actually.

487
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:50,920
I think, yeah, do you feel like it's kind of helped you through milestones in your life

488
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,480
as well, like the creativity?

489
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,760
Yeah, definitely.

490
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,480
I think I see my life milestones in creativity milestones.

491
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,060
I think that's how I measure my life.

492
00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,440
It's not like this is the year I turned blah blah blah.

493
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,040
This is the year I did that show or this is the year I got my, I don't know why I'm not

494
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,840
putting, I'm trying to be really vague for some reason.

495
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,280
I don't know why, but it's like this year I saved all of that money and did that course

496
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,280
in New York.

497
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,280
This is the year, like it's not.

498
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,280
Yeah.

499
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,800
I think that's the way I see, I look back.

500
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,080
So I think that's why it's important to keep making sure I'm creating those milestones.

501
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,160
Again, because you can't guarantee that anyone else is going to give those to you.

502
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Like I don't feel like I do anything to, if someone's measuring their life in milestones,

503
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:48,800
I don't feel like I do anything to earn a birthday that comes around, but I feel like

504
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:55,160
I do stuff to earn a performance or earn an amazing gig or I'll start using specifics

505
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,960
because it's being really vague, but I also don't want to be like, oh, this isn't my resume

506
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,640
because it's not, it's kind of not what I'm trying to say.

507
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,360
I look back at one year and it's like, that's when I wrote a show for Melbourne Writers

508
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,360
Festival.

509
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,720
That's the year I performed at Dark MoFo.

510
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:15,560
That's the year that I toured and performed in a motel room.

511
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,000
That's the year I did the show on the rooftop in a pool.

512
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,820
That's how I look back.

513
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:25,600
So I think that's why they're so important to me.

514
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,420
The things that I can creatively create.

515
00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:32,060
Making something from nothing is cool.

516
00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:36,400
Having an idea, just like you and this podcast, you had an idea and now it exists and it's

517
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,820
in the world and people can listen to it and it feeds people in different ways and people

518
00:29:39,820 --> 00:29:41,080
can connect.

519
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,960
And that's so cool.

520
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:49,480
I think it's also like, I think what's the exception and cool about you is, you know,

521
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:56,760
and believe it or not, the reason you fell onto my radar probably years ago, like I think

522
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,080
five years ago or something like that.

523
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,840
I'm trying to sort of measure this in milestones.

524
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,340
And it was back sort of when I was, no, it would have been five or six years ago.

525
00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:12,880
And it was like during the end of like, I just graduated from TAFE.

526
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,040
So I'd done a film course in TAFE.

527
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,640
I was working full time and I kind of was looking at projects and looking in like creatives

528
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,680
on Star Now and stuff like that.

529
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,000
And your name popped up in the wonderful search engine.

530
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:31,440
And I remember clicking on your profile and seeing, you know, this person had been in

531
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:37,600
a few music videos and just looked very quirky and cool.

532
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,200
And I just remember thinking, I was like, it'd be really interesting to connect with

533
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,440
this person years later.

534
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,160
Or you know, even if it's not like now, it's like in a few years later and find out what

535
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,040
makes them, because it was something about you.

536
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,320
And I think this is kind of like how I always know, you know, like goes back to that thing

537
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,200
of how do you know about people?

538
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,800
I look at people from a, you know, and it's probably like a superpower I say, because

539
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:10,760
of my way my brain's wired, but like I'm very perceptive of how people hold themselves,

540
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:17,800
even if it's like in an acting or a creative sense, because everyone holds themselves,

541
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,040
whether they're creative and stuff, I can automatically tell when someone has like this

542
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,920
massive creative ego.

543
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:28,120
And I looked at you and I was like, you're cool because you just love what you do.

544
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:34,360
And everything that you do seems to just be a passion rather than just this, I'm, you

545
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,160
know, this top tier, like famous, you were just like, I'm always doing stuff and just,

546
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,880
that's fun and creative and cool.

547
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,880
And let's see what like the world brings.

548
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,880
This is so nice.

549
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,720
Wow, you that's, you could have connected with me back then.

550
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,040
I think it was like always, I love that you say that.

551
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,200
I mean, like, I think it was also because I was sort of much, you know, like it's that

552
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,040
confidence thing that we were talking about.

553
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,480
Because back then I was just breaking into the, like, especially because I started out

554
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,160
as a performer and then I went into behind the scenes stuff because I really like, I

555
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,720
love acting, acting is like great, but I had developed this terrible stage fright.

556
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,020
Thank you drama class.

557
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:18,240
And thank you, harsh criticism.

558
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,800
So I became like, I predominantly loved like being in front of camera and stuff.

559
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:27,400
And then I learned how to be an editor and, and a bit of directing.

560
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,620
And I think it was like, and then I got a tech role.

561
00:32:29,620 --> 00:32:32,360
So I just kind of stuck to that and did that.

562
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,200
And my dad was a photographer, so I learned photography skills.

563
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:43,880
So I ended up just trying to integrate myself slowly into being a creative, but less, less

564
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,920
of the performance side and more of the behind the scenes side and creating my own content.

565
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,960
And there was a period of time where it was like you were, you know, I just got sick of

566
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,480
waiting for opportunities to come along and I was just like, okay, cool.

567
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,880
How do I make my own?

568
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,560
And you know, to this day, I have amazing friends who still kind of like write material

569
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,160
or you know, do things and we sit down and kind of break them down.

570
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,440
But if I said that to myself five years ago, I didn't nearly have the network that I do

571
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:13,440
now.

572
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:14,760
Yeah, totally.

573
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,320
And having a podcast like this where you talk to creatives, like what a way to make a network.

574
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,320
I know, right.

575
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:26,360
It's like, but I mean, like I always always say that, you know, it's like the best quote

576
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,920
that I thought of the other day was like, I'm not nice, weed stalker on the internet

577
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,280
because, because it's just so easy.

578
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,800
And people often go, how do you find me?

579
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,680
And it's because Facebook search engine and, you know, and like the way the algorithm works

580
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,900
behind the scenes is just incredible these days.

581
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:48,800
It used to be you'd have to dive into the internet and type people's names specifically

582
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,160
now, but everything just connects and links up.

583
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,280
And I would often message people and just be like, Hey, and I always believed in that

584
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,560
it's no harm in asking.

585
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,160
And nine times out of 10, you know, people are like, yeah, love that.

586
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,280
You occasionally get the ones who thought you were crazy.

587
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,440
And it sounded psychotic.

588
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,880
But I feel like they're rarer than you expect them to be.

589
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:12,880
Yeah, I know.

590
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,840
I feel like, I don't know what it is.

591
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,440
It's like we're almost programmed to believe that reaching out to people through the internet,

592
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,200
I feel like the generations below us don't think like this, but maybe us because we kind

593
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,880
of grew up with the world discovering the internet.

594
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,080
It feels like you're kind of programmed to be like, Oh, you don't actually know that

595
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,080
person in real life.

596
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,080
You can't connect with them.

597
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,080
You can't follow it.

598
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,560
You don't know them, but it's breaking that wall and being like, no, no, no, this is what

599
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,560
this is for.

600
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,560
This is for connection.

601
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,560
Yeah.

602
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:45,560
So yeah, just ask.

603
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,360
Cause the worst thing they can do, especially someone online that you don't know.

604
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,160
I mean, I understand this is not talking about cyber bullying.

605
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,560
It's more like they can just say no.

606
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,560
Yeah.

607
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,560
And you'd be like, okay, cool.

608
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:03,040
I think it's also like, it's really kind of the cool thing is, you know, and is there's

609
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:10,000
a lot of, you know, genuine people on the internet and, and you know, like obviously,

610
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,840
you know, stranger danger and stuff like that.

611
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,720
I'm not encouraging people to go to everyone and meet them in real life, but I mean, there's

612
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,680
a lot of nice people.

613
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:27,400
And I think the internet these days because of how it is and how broad it is, um, it's

614
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200
easy to find out about people very quickly.

615
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Yeah.

616
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,520
Like, um, I think one of the things that I know, I know that, um, you know, if people

617
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,840
type my name into Google and you, and you want to specifically find information, you

618
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,640
will find my Vimeo, um, of all my edited projects and directed projects.

619
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,400
And it's, it's one of those things that when I, when I go and people tell me, it's like,

620
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,400
oh, I watched that thing.

621
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,400
I'm like, why?

622
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,400
Yeah.

623
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,600
Why'd you watch the terrible one?

624
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,860
The one I'm not proud of.

625
00:35:57,860 --> 00:35:59,400
That's like 10 years old.

626
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,400
It's so annoying.

627
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,520
You can't, um, you can't, you can't monitor or like change your Google search.

628
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,000
No, you can change everything else.

629
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,400
You can change your profile on everything, but it's like, why does Google pick that?

630
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,400
I didn't like, why?

631
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,360
Who's, who's controlling the Google search?

632
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,800
I don't, yeah, I want to, yeah, it's hard.

633
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:19,800
It's annoying.

634
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,800
I want to fix it.

635
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,400
I want to rearrange all the images into a nicer order.

636
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,120
I'm not thinking like the, the better, the better articles to come up first.

637
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,480
I want to creatively art direct my Google search, please.

638
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,340
I think it's also like, you know, when Facebook suggests old quotes that you've got on like

639
00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:44,280
old statuses and you read them and just go, oh, I wrote that when I was like 15 or 18.

640
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,280
Yeah, delete.

641
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

642
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,280
Slow and steady every day.

643
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,880
So I said delete.

644
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:57,920
I think one of my favorite quotes was just like, and, and, and clearly like I could tell,

645
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,160
um, you know, cause I'll, I'll talk to, um, and move on to mental health.

646
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,200
Um, but I remember just reading all the old statuses and it was like something that I

647
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,400
remembered predominantly like the, clearly the signs of mental health issues, like as

648
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,480
a kid, cause I was like, oh my God, like at the time I didn't think anything of it, but

649
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:23,440
it was like, you know, this 16 year old just going, Oh, you know, everyone hates me as

650
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,440
a status.

651
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:36,640
Like I feel like though, especially, um, growing up in the nineties, that was so easily misconstrued

652
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:43,240
and masked because of how like cool it was and edgy it was to kind of present like that.

653
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:49,080
It's like that whole like, Oh, it's Tumblr era or like, it's, it's, was easy to say things

654
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,960
like that on the internet, even though yes, you're probably feeling that exactly, but

655
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,620
it also comes out as like, Oh, I'm just being cool and edgy.

656
00:37:57,620 --> 00:38:05,160
So it's like, you can so easily mask your emotions with the trends of that time.

657
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,160
Does that make sense?

658
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,160
It does.

659
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,280
I was just thinking, did your diary save you from writing a lot of unwarranted statuses?

660
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,280
Yeah, totally.

661
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,900
So you have all these secret like locked away diaries that you're like, no one's ever going

662
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:17,900
to read it.

663
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:18,900
Yes.

664
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:19,900
Yes, I do.

665
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:22,960
And they sit in my office on a shelf all lined up.

666
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:23,960
Oh my God.

667
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:31,760
I mean, like, do you, do you think that also like, you know, it's a, cause I know people,

668
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:37,520
it's interesting as well, because I think when it comes to your own experiences and

669
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,480
especially like you talk about a one woman show, do you, did you do that in particular

670
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:50,240
because you like, and that you felt like the industry was very male dominated or is it

671
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:55,200
kind of like, and you just wanted your own voice out there as well?

672
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,000
I don't think I thought about it like that, honestly.

673
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,760
I feel like that would be a cool thing for me to say right now, but it wasn't.

674
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,840
I basically got, amazingly, I got asked to write something.

675
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,040
It was very open, but they were like, can you pitch something for Melbourne Writers

676
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,040
Festival?

677
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,920
The theme of the Melbourne Writers Festival this year is around love.

678
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,440
I didn't technically have a title at the time, but I just knew that the theme was about love

679
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,240
and I got asked to write something.

680
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:36,400
And so I thought about it and came up with, yeah, a concept because I think we've been

681
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:43,360
talking about my creative process a little bit and what I think is maybe interesting

682
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:49,160
to some people, maybe a bit nonsense to a lot of people because it's probably working

683
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,920
the opposite way to a lot of people, but I see it first.

684
00:39:53,920 --> 00:40:03,920
Like I see a visual picture before I see a story or a concept or a word, which I don't

685
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,200
know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

686
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,560
I don't know if that hinders me or not because I think I see it and I go, oh, that's what

687
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:14,960
I need to make.

688
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,320
I can see it very clearly.

689
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,280
And I go, what is, why, what is that?

690
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,600
And then I figure it out from there.

691
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:31,120
And my show takes place in a motel and I'd been to a lot of motels kind of in the last

692
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:37,720
few years, I'd done a few road trips and there was something about the visual style of an

693
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:39,880
old motel that's a little bit run down.

694
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:47,000
There's something about motels that feel very transient and nostalgic and it's like motels

695
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,000
are a part of someone's life for a very short amount of time.

696
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,760
They never see someone's whole life.

697
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,960
They're never somebody's home.

698
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,440
They're never somebody's long-term situation.

699
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:04,680
They see people in a state of flux and in a moment and a snapshot and that's all they

700
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,800
get and they see so many lives through one room, but only ever a tiny little bit of a

701
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:15,520
life and at that point in time, I was thinking about all my experiences with love and how

702
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:21,000
they all felt so fleeting and weirdly it all came together.

703
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:27,720
I feel like the life, the love, romantically speaking, not my friends, not my family, but

704
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:35,080
the romantic love of my life has been very like not lasting, like transient, like in

705
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,840
and out and gone.

706
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:44,280
And with that comes a lot of questions and a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of

707
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,360
unresolved feelings and open ends.

708
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:53,680
And I don't know, I was kind of stuck in that world and then I built a show around this

709
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,080
image of me sitting in a motel room in my head.

710
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:04,180
I mean, I love that sort of mentality of just, you know, that, so did you like actually do

711
00:42:04,180 --> 00:42:05,760
it in a motel room?

712
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,480
Did you actually like pick a-

713
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,480
I have, yeah.

714
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,600
So where was it?

715
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,600
Which motel?

716
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,680
The first time we did the show, it was for Melbourne Writers Festival and then ended

717
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,800
up teaming up with this incredible music festival called OK Motels that were, that basically

718
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:25,400
take over, take over regional motels and hold a music festival in them.

719
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,880
Specifically their main venue is Charlton, which is a little country Victorian town.

720
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,920
And yeah, I got together with the organizer of that festival who'd come to see my show

721
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:41,120
at Melbourne Writers Fest and we kind of teamed up and me and my producer did like change

722
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,000
the show around, made it a lot shorter because it's a music festival.

723
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,520
People aren't going to sit and watch an hour show.

724
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,520
It's not the vibe.

725
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,840
We changed it to about 15 minutes and yeah, we're putting it on in one of the motel rooms,

726
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,680
just a really small audience in one tiny little space.

727
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:56,680
That's not-

728
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:57,680
Yeah.

729
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:58,680
It was fun.

730
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,680
It was really fun.

731
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:00,680
We've done a few different motels now.

732
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:01,680
It's cool.

733
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:07,200
I mean, do you, it's interesting as well because you know, you talk about romantically, like

734
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,560
love fleeting and very transient.

735
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:17,440
Do you think that a lot of your experiences have really kind of dived into your like actual

736
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,840
written work and when you form ideas and plays?

737
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,840
Yeah, definitely.

738
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,560
I mean, specifically, I know I mentioned at the start of this episode, I wasn't going

739
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,880
to talk too much about this play because it comes on in a couple of weeks and this episode

740
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,680
won't come out until after it's done, but potentially we'll do the show again.

741
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:42,560
This particular show is actually me talking to 12 people in my real life that I've had

742
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,520
some form of a relationship with.

743
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:45,520
Wow.

744
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:46,520
So it's all my real life.

745
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,300
It's basically, I went through my diary and found things and turned it into a show.

746
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:51,440
It's very scary.

747
00:43:51,440 --> 00:44:01,320
I mean, are you, it feels very like, I guess, musician of you to kind of, and creative of

748
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,960
you to talk about relationships, especially to talk to specifically, are you worried about

749
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,200
what these people will think?

750
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,480
Are any of them still like prominent in your life?

751
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,960
Yeah, a few of them are, but I feel like, I really don't feel like any of them will

752
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,120
come, but also who knows?

753
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,920
Some of them, I think, are pretty aware of what I'm doing.

754
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,320
One person definitely is because they've outright said, Hey, saw you were writing a show.

755
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,320
Am I in that?

756
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,320
And I've said, yep.

757
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,320
I was like, there's no names.

758
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,320
Don't worry.

759
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,600
No one will know, but yes, you are.

760
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,440
I mean, that's scary.

761
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,120
What a way to process relationships.

762
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,120
Yeah.

763
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:49,240
I mean, have you, have you predominantly dated people who aren't creatives or had a romantic

764
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:50,240
sense with non-creatives?

765
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,760
No, a bit of both.

766
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:58,360
Definitely other people that are, yeah, around that kind of industry in the area.

767
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:03,280
So it's, it's very likely that people would come, but I just, I don't know why.

768
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:08,680
I just really feel like, I really feel like they won't potentially because they know what

769
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,680
I'm doing and they will avoid it.

770
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,680
And in other aspects, I just feel like potentially because they are not, not, not aware, like

771
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,320
not aware of what I'm doing, not following up looking, you know?

772
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,320
Yeah.

773
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,880
I mean, like that's, that's kind of astonishing as well.

774
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:31,440
And I always, you know, like, I think it's a great way of sort of reflection and especially

775
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,400
that idea that there's quite a few like ideas that I have always stirring in the back of

776
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,640
my mind, which are about people I've dated and just thought, Oh, maybe I should do something

777
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,960
based on these thoughts and, you know, feelings that I had at the situation.

778
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:52,640
And I feel like, are you describe yourself ever as a person where they're hot on their

779
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,640
sleeve?

780
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,640
I want to say no, but yeah, definitely.

781
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:02,080
I was like, what's the cool answer is absolutely not, but I absolutely do.

782
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,280
I was like, just hope.

783
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,440
Cause like, I actually remember the original question you asked me.

784
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:10,440
Oh yeah.

785
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,080
I remember an answer to what I told you and I don't know why, but you ask your thing and

786
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,880
then I'll keep that in my brain.

787
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:16,880
Please.

788
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:17,880
Cause I might circle around.

789
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:18,880
Cause you're a pro.

790
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:19,880
Yeah.

791
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:20,880
Cool.

792
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:21,880
Yeah.

793
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:29,400
I mean, I mean, also though, like, do you, do you kind of like, when you're feeling emotional

794
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:35,720
about things or, you know, or, um, or how you process things is, do you always just

795
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:42,120
write your feelings down straight away in terms of just like nonlinear nonsensical thought

796
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,120
processes?

797
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,840
I used to, definitely.

798
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:52,640
I have gotten a bit lax with the diary the last couple of years, which I'm, I beat myself

799
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,120
up about quite often actually.

800
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,440
Don't, it's fine.

801
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:57,440
I know.

802
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,040
But when, you know, when you're like, I'm really glad that I have all those diaries

803
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,620
that I used to be so good at that.

804
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:08,080
Not that I was meticulously doing it at a particular time every week or anything like

805
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,240
that, but it was just like, that was my go-to place.

806
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:14,440
Um, I don't write stuff down as much as I used to.

807
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,640
My phone has a lot of notes in it.

808
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:17,640
Definitely.

809
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:23,600
That is kind of a place that I go to, but not as much as I, not as much as I wish that

810
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:24,600
I did anymore.

811
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,600
Yeah.

812
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,600
Cause it helps.

813
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:27,840
I love, I love when I do it.

814
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,120
I love when I'm in the routine.

815
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,360
I mean, that's like, that's always kind of hard as well.

816
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:38,440
I mean, do you, do you, do you describe yourself as quite an anxious person as well?

817
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,320
Or do you think you have a very like, um, sort of grounded sense?

818
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,680
But both is that like, I feel like there's things that I, there's definitely a lot of

819
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,900
situations where I walk through life and I am very anxious person.

820
00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:59,280
And then you get me into a space and I can be the most grounded, most confident, most,

821
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:06,000
not confident, confident as in assured, I think is the better word, assured and knowing

822
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,640
that I'm meant to be there.

823
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,480
I feel like I flip between those all the time.

824
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,000
I think it's a creative, non-creative thing.

825
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,080
If I have a, if I'm going to a rehearsal or if I have something that I've, I'm making

826
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:23,840
or working on that's mine, I feel totally calm and present and here and like ready to

827
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,960
work and know what I'm doing.

828
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,120
And then other aspects of life, I'm a mess.

829
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,000
I'm like anxious little mess.

830
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,480
And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.

831
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:32,480
I don't deserve to be here.

832
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,360
I'm going to drop everything I'm holding.

833
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,720
I'm going to trip over and fall.

834
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:38,720
It's odd.

835
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:43,920
So both, but not both at the same time, both at like distinctly different times.

836
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,920
Yeah.

837
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:50,680
I mean, like I know for a fact that creatively I'm fine, but then like, I definitely get

838
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,280
to a stage where I think, um, and quite a few friends will vouch for this, where I just

839
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,280
get overwhelmed.

840
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:01,440
If I, if too many things are like going on at once, I will, and, and especially like,

841
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,920
I remember it's distinctly one party.

842
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,440
Like this was a birthday party that organized with a friend and was a murder mystery.

843
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,200
And we had decided like I could, basically I could kill anyone in the room.

844
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,640
Like that was the, that was the rule.

845
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,000
I could just decide that someone died randomly in the story.

846
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,560
And I did, and it was so much fun, but I got to a point where I think a few people were

847
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,800
annoyed that I killed them too early in the, in the story that they thought, because they

848
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:34,200
could then, the rule was that once you died, you could talk amongst each other and try

849
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,440
and solve it with me because I was the main guy who had died, but I could decide who died

850
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,960
at any other time.

851
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:48,080
And I knew who the killer was, but I remember one of the things was when the party ended

852
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,080
and everyone, I just remember being very kind of bombarded with everyone getting annoyed

853
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,480
that the fact that things, you know, their character died early.

854
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:56,480
Totally.

855
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,600
And I was like, well, that's half the fun.

856
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Yeah.

857
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,520
Isn't it like to not predictively know.

858
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,800
Cause you walk away anxiously being like, I've hurt that person.

859
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,280
I made that person like, it was that they, the thoughts that were going on in your brain.

860
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:11,280
Yeah, absolutely.

861
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:12,280
Yeah.

862
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,600
I feel that I get that you can have the best time ever, but you say one thing or you do

863
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,240
one thing and that's all you can think about for the rest of the night.

864
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:25,180
You just, you get in your own head very quickly.

865
00:50:25,180 --> 00:50:30,840
It's like a switch because for me, when I feel anxious or I feel stressed about something,

866
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,520
I could be sitting like prime example, a few weeks ago, I had a, I had a panic attack and

867
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,720
I remember I was sitting down upstairs, like where I normally like edit videos and stuff.

868
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:49,320
And I remember sitting there and I just suddenly went, Oh God, what have I achieved anything

869
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,320
this year?

870
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:51,880
Like, have I done anything?

871
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,960
And this is, this is a thought that, you know, I have occasionally, which, you know, by the

872
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,640
way, I do a podcast, I do so many creative things.

873
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,880
It's not like I'm, I'm short, short on it, but I think the thing is it's that neurological

874
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,840
effect of just going, have I done enough?

875
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,800
Do you get that as a constant basis?

876
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,720
Yeah, I feel like that's the, yeah, that's my base state of living.

877
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:14,600
And that's why I feel like I have to be busy.

878
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:20,160
I have to be doing so many things because if I'm, if I'm busy enough, then I go like,

879
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:21,920
I can't possibly be doing anything else.

880
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,360
So this must be right.

881
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:28,680
Whereas if I have too much free time, I'm like, well, clearly I'm not doing enough because

882
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,680
what is all this free time doing here?

883
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,440
I don't have enough to worry about.

884
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:39,120
I don't have enough to be doing, which I know is, I know that's not, I know that's not right

885
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:40,120
intellectually.

886
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,080
I know that's like not healthy, but yeah, I think that all the time, there's so many

887
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,320
things I wish I could be doing at once.

888
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,720
I want so many more hours in the day, but I just don't know if even if I had all those

889
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,600
hours, I still don't think I would be doing enough.

890
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,600
Yeah.

891
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:01,880
I want to be able to look back at my, my, the milestone thing, like what we were saying

892
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:09,040
and be like, I, I did those 20 things that year.

893
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,200
I did those 30 things that year.

894
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:16,640
Not just like I did one big project or two big projects and this little thing or whatever.

895
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,080
And I don't know, I don't know where that comes from.

896
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,040
Just the industry probably and how competitive it is.

897
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,840
You just want to be busy all the time.

898
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,400
I feel like you have, well, I feel like if I'm not busy, I'm failing.

899
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:30,400
Yeah.

900
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:37,600
I mean, like the thing I also feel like, um, and I'm amazed because I feel like when I

901
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:42,840
look at you, um, especially when I, and when I'm hearing you, it doesn't feel like you've

902
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,360
broken because of the industry.

903
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:51,640
Like you haven't learned anything overall, try and break the Tamsin structure.

904
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:57,320
I mean, has it felt like it's gotten close where you feel like you needed to run away

905
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:58,680
from everything though?

906
00:52:58,680 --> 00:52:59,680
Yeah, definitely.

907
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,760
But I know I never will, but I've said it.

908
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,880
I've definitely said it at my lowest points.

909
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,640
I'm always like, I have to give up.

910
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,440
It's always because I just think I'm going to fail no matter what.

911
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,000
I have to stop now.

912
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,000
That's I don't know.

913
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,000
It's kind of comes from there.

914
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,200
It's like, I haven't done enough already.

915
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,160
I'm going to keep going and I'm going to feel like a failure forever.

916
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,000
I have to stop this.

917
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,840
I need to do something else.

918
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,040
But then as soon as I go, well, what else would I do?

919
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,000
And I go, well, nothing.

920
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,680
There's nothing else I want to do.

921
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:43,440
So I just sit on this little failure train and make my little projects until the end

922
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:44,440
of time.

923
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,640
I don't know.

924
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,520
Nothing about what you're doing is failure train.

925
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:53,480
Otherwise, I'm in the carriage next to you, like, joining you on this train.

926
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:54,480
I don't know.

927
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,400
That's just, that's just the, I feel like nothing's ever enough.

928
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,400
No.

929
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:07,560
I think you think very similarly to me, you're constantly thinking of the next project while

930
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,560
even present in the current one.

931
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:16,000
And like that might finish and then you're like, okay, what's the next thing?

932
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,240
And then the next one and then the next one.

933
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:27,240
And while that's thrilling, it's very thrilling a lot of the time, it also just, you know,

934
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:34,400
like my books and my laptop are filled, filled to the brim with ideas.

935
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:40,800
And you end up cherry picking like the best ones that you think have got legs and then

936
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:47,080
extrapolating those into ideas and plot threads and you know, storytelling.

937
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:54,240
But I definitely feel like, you know, if I wasn't doing like my work, I'm going out and

938
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,240
doing a podcast.

939
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,480
If I'm not doing that, I'm doing photography.

940
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,600
If I'm not doing that, I'm writing an idea.

941
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,200
And then it becomes the thing of like, I know my wonderful partner has said a couple of

942
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:10,120
times that I need to stop and just have a, have a break.

943
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,640
And that is really hard.

944
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,200
It's so hard.

945
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,640
I'm terrible at having breaks.

946
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:21,320
I find it really hard unless I'm really exhausted or burnt out and then it doesn't feel like

947
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:22,320
a break.

948
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:27,400
It's like, again, it feels like I've failed because it's like, oh, I'm tired.

949
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,400
Damn.

950
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,120
I can't keep up.

951
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:31,120
So I'm failing.

952
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,560
Like, I don't know, it always comes back to that for me.

953
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:39,920
If I get so exhausted or I've done so much, then like, because intellectually I know it's

954
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,680
like, it's my body is tired, it needs to rest and that's all I'm doing and that's fine.

955
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,640
But my head is like, you're obviously not good enough to keep up with doing all the

956
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,040
things and to do everything you want to do, you have to be better than this.

957
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,280
You have to be stronger than this.

958
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,200
So get up, keep going.

959
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,160
Because otherwise like, look at you laying down.

960
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,560
What a failure.

961
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:02,560
It's so bad.

962
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,480
And I would never say that to anybody else.

963
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,240
It's just, I hold that for me.

964
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,240
Yeah.

965
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:08,680
It's, it's you hold yourself to high bar.

966
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:09,680
Yeah.

967
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,120
But I don't even think it's a high bar.

968
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,840
I just think I, I don't know.

969
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,880
Like I, I don't think that of my friends or anything.

970
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:17,880
Yeah.

971
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:18,880
You just think of it yourself.

972
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:19,880
Yeah.

973
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,560
I just always feel like I'm like at the back of the race or whatever.

974
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:24,560
Yeah.

975
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:25,840
So I have to like work harder to keep up.

976
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,440
I mean, it's interesting as well because you know, like I know we previously mentioned

977
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,880
relationships and everything.

978
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:37,920
Do you feel like being a creative has made it harder for you as well or to like have

979
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,040
a relationship because you talk about it being a transient state?

980
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,040
Yeah.

981
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:43,040
I mean, it's not anymore for me.

982
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,280
I feel I'm very lucky to have like a stable partner.

983
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,840
But yeah, in the past, I don't, I don't know.

984
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:59,640
I don't know if it's because I'm a creative or if it's because I just had bad habits and

985
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:00,640
low self-esteem.

986
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,640
I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't know if it's about, definitely some people it was, they

987
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:05,640
weren't a creative.

988
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,160
I am a creative and they just couldn't understand what I was doing.

989
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,360
I think they were transient or they treated me badly or whatever because I let them.

990
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,000
I don't think it had anything to do with my creativity.

991
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,000
Yeah.

992
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,640
I mean, that's the, I've definitely dated my fair share of people who have not worked

993
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,640
in the creative field and that was a mistake.

994
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,880
I thought because it never lines up, especially like-

995
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,280
Well, they just don't understand, they just don't get it or they just think it's a bit

996
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:34,280
of a novelty.

997
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:35,280
Yeah.

998
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,280
And like, oh, you're quirky and fun.

999
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,280
Look at you talking about theatre.

1000
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,280
What's that?

1001
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:40,280
It's like, you don't get it.

1002
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,720
And have you had a lot of people tell you it's like not a real job?

1003
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:44,720
No.

1004
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,480
I think I just surround myself with a lot of creatives as much as I can.

1005
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:53,760
But I know also, again, I totally understand why you ask that.

1006
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,080
And I know that that's a lot of people's experience and that is a real, real thing.

1007
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:04,000
I definitely get occasionally if I, if I don't have like a steady income or something, but

1008
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,800
I'm, but I've chosen to do that.

1009
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,400
And I, it's because I have too many theatre projects on or I have this and that, or I'm

1010
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,320
just having a few months to just audition.

1011
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,320
Yep.

1012
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,480
And so I do occasionally, I just turn off everything else and I go, I have these months,

1013
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:17,480
I have enough savings.

1014
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:23,600
I'm just going to act and whatever form that comes in is just my life.

1015
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:28,920
Then like my mum will freak out or something and be like, here's all these job applications.

1016
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:29,920
Pick one.

1017
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:30,920
Here's all these people.

1018
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:31,920
My work's hiring.

1019
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:32,920
What are you going to?

1020
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:34,600
And I'm like, just, it's fine.

1021
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:35,600
I know what I'm doing.

1022
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:41,000
So I get that occasionally, but it's not, yeah, it's not really the same thing.

1023
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:46,240
But back to, you asked me, which is how I got into this writing thing originally, you

1024
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,520
said something like, have I always wanted to write?

1025
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:59,200
And I guess what I've always wanted to do was stand up comedy and I don't have the,

1026
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,400
the like guts for it.

1027
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,960
That seems too terrifying to me.

1028
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:10,120
And so this show that I'm doing now potentially will be the closest thing to stand up that

1029
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:16,040
I do because it's theatre, but it's just me and it's talking about my real life.

1030
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:17,760
Some of it's funny, not all of it's funny.

1031
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,920
And I don't have any props or anything.

1032
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,640
I'm just like moving about a space, talking to the audience.

1033
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,360
That's like the closest thing I reckon to stand up.

1034
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:28,360
So I don't know.

1035
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:29,600
I've always wanted to do that.

1036
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:38,320
And weirdly this was my way in, but not in just, this was my way to kind of do something

1037
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,000
and give it a go without giving it a go.

1038
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,240
Just jump straight into it.

1039
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:43,600
My brain doesn't make sense.

1040
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:44,600
I'm sorry.

1041
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,800
No, don't apologize for the way your brain thinks.

1042
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,040
Cause I love it.

1043
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,920
Don't ever apologize for the way your brain is wired.

1044
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:59,520
Do you feel like this thing you're doing at the moment though is a massive extension and

1045
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,920
probably the closest thing that is really you to any project you've done?

1046
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:04,140
Yes and no.

1047
01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:10,060
It is because it is probably the most honest and vulnerable I've done, most honest and

1048
01:00:10,060 --> 01:00:16,360
vulnerable performance I've done purely because it is my own life that I'm talking about.

1049
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,760
So in that way, yes.

1050
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:25,320
But in another way, no, because it isn't super visual.

1051
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:32,220
And I really do feel like a huge part of me is like a visual, like creating like a visual

1052
01:00:32,220 --> 01:00:34,720
scene or visual world.

1053
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,640
And when I think about it like that, then this fringe show I did on a roof where I made

1054
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:45,160
a giant cloud that so far has felt like the closest thing in the theater world that I've

1055
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:50,200
made to me, even though that was about magic and great gods and had a hula hoop best in

1056
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,200
it.

1057
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:56,400
So it's like, I almost need to pull the two things together and then it would, but I'm

1058
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:57,920
not saying I am a giant cloud.

1059
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:06,360
I'm just saying the amount of visual stuff I got to explode onto a stage and make the

1060
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:12,080
audience look at a scene in front of them that moved and had people and all of the costumes

1061
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:18,880
and all of the color schemes all fit together in a detailed way.

1062
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,320
That is something really satisfying to me to show.

1063
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:31,120
And I think that's the sense, like my Instagram feels like it fulfills a part of that need

1064
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,500
for me to visually express my brain somewhere.

1065
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:39,560
But then yeah, this show is definitely the closest thing to me.

1066
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,460
Like if you didn't know me and you came to that show, you'd feel like you knew me really

1067
01:01:42,460 --> 01:01:43,460
well at the end.

1068
01:01:43,460 --> 01:01:47,060
But then I'd say, but actually, can you just look at my Instagram too?

1069
01:01:47,060 --> 01:01:49,940
Because then you'll get it even more.

1070
01:01:49,940 --> 01:01:54,320
There's not enough pink in my show, you need to look at my Instagram and then match them

1071
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:55,320
together.

1072
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,360
So basically you're encouraging people to look through your show and just scroll through

1073
01:01:58,360 --> 01:01:59,360
Instagram.

1074
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,360
I don't know how to explain it.

1075
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,360
But yeah, basically, yeah.

1076
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,960
I mean, like I think that's really awesome.

1077
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:12,240
Do you feel like, you know, because you talk about being hard on your sleeve, do you kind

1078
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:19,960
of, have you in your life also, you know, it sounds like you've let people, the wrong

1079
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:26,000
people, and be, you know, be vulnerable in front of the wrong kind of people.

1080
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:33,480
I mean, is this something you're very nervous about seeing what, like someone who doesn't

1081
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,640
know you kind of get into your head?

1082
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,920
I'm more nervous about the people who do know me saying it.

1083
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,140
People who don't know me, fine.

1084
01:02:42,140 --> 01:02:47,320
People who do know me, especially if they knew me during that time when some of these

1085
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:51,600
people were in my life, that's, that's scarier to me.

1086
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,960
All the actual people coming, that's scarier.

1087
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,000
I guess that's the thing as well, isn't it?

1088
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,680
Because we put up these safeguards, especially as creatives and performers, because we're

1089
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,080
like, want to be sellable.

1090
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,060
Like we want to be a product in itself.

1091
01:03:06,060 --> 01:03:12,320
And then this sort of like, is the most probably honest and extension of you.

1092
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:18,620
What's your, like, are you worried that people will sort of look at you differently by the

1093
01:03:18,620 --> 01:03:20,360
end of it as well?

1094
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,360
Yeah, I think so.

1095
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:23,360
Sometimes.

1096
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:30,440
I'm, what I'm hoping is that what they will walk away from it with is more, yes, they'll

1097
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:40,000
look at me differently, but hopefully in a way where they can empathize and forgive themselves

1098
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,880
for maybe some flaws that they have as well.

1099
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,280
Because I think the show is all about just being able to speak the things that you wish

1100
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:56,320
you had said at a time in your life, even if it's terrifying and super vulnerable.

1101
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:03,720
But also at the same time, it's me admitting that I couldn't do that and I didn't have

1102
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:05,160
the voice then.

1103
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:11,080
And in a way I don't have that voice now because I'm never actually going to say these things

1104
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:12,360
to these people.

1105
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,580
I'm saying them to an audience, hopefully of strangers.

1106
01:04:16,580 --> 01:04:18,200
And that's more comfortable.

1107
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:25,160
So it's both saying like, hey, look, I'm trying to do a brave big thing, but also I'm running

1108
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:33,680
away from this terrifying, horrific thing where I'm telling everyone all of my thoughts

1109
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,880
and feelings about them.

1110
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,120
So it's kind of both at once.

1111
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:43,760
I mean, it's interesting as well because I feel like it's one of those things, one of

1112
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,360
my friends said profoundly recently, they were like, I know more about you through your

1113
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:52,480
podcast than actually you telling people stuff.

1114
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:53,480
That I think is true.

1115
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:54,480
Totally.

1116
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,800
People ask me straight what I think about certain things.

1117
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:01,840
I will give you an honest answer, but I will probably tell a podcast because it's like

1118
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:09,080
this microphone that is easy to speak into than it is necessarily for someone to ask

1119
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:13,680
me a direct question and be like, what was this experience like for you?

1120
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:19,080
Because I know my life has had experiences where I'm very proud of and then other situations

1121
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,320
that I'm not proud of and mistakes that I've made.

1122
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:29,000
Everyone has flaws, but also there are situations that I know throughout my entire life that

1123
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:34,320
weren't my fault and took me a while to get in therapy and stuff like that to kind of

1124
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,200
get to the other side where I accepted that.

1125
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:43,040
And I was like, these situations were out of my control or they weren't my fault or

1126
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:51,280
responsibility, even though some would say and dictate that that is the opposite.

1127
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,680
Like now I don't believe that.

1128
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:59,080
And I think it really does make me sort of very, I guess now as well, very resilient

1129
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:04,400
to a lot of different things, especially like creative criticism and stuff and not sort

1130
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:08,680
of worrying too much in depth about ideas.

1131
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,520
But it does also make me go, okay, I have safeguards.

1132
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:20,160
I used to really kind of just trust people instinctively, especially people who I ended

1133
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,000
up in relationships with in a romantic sense and then just kind of gave them the benefit

1134
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,960
of the doubt.

1135
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:31,360
When things went south or communication wasn't 100% there on both sides, I was like, okay,

1136
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,160
well, we'll give each other the benefit of the doubt and whether or not it was a sensible

1137
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:42,560
decision at the time or not was probably, I can reflect on more now than I could like

1138
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,320
literally at the time where I had no idea.

1139
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:50,000
And I think a lot of my friends would say otherwise that they were tired of giving me

1140
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,720
advice, which obviously I didn't take on board.

1141
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:53,720
Totally.

1142
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:58,760
And it's so easy to look at those situations in yourself when you're looking at them

1143
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,640
once you've stepped out of it.

1144
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:01,640
It's so easy.

1145
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,400
So easy to have like a bird's eye view on something.

1146
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,240
It's so much harder to see it when it's right in front of you.

1147
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:13,320
And in terms of speaking more vulnerably, not to your friends, it's because you've

1148
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:19,280
curated a safe space for yourself and for the person that you're talking to.

1149
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:24,480
When you walk into this space being like, okay, we're going into a vulnerable place.

1150
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:25,760
Am I ready to be here?

1151
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,600
I know what this is.

1152
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:28,960
This is okay.

1153
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:35,280
Whereas when you're just talking to your friends or whatever, sometimes it's like you're having

1154
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,400
a coffee in a cafe and it's like, how are you?

1155
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:38,880
Did so and so say blah blah blah to you?

1156
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:43,320
And it's like, maybe that hurts, but I'm not in a space to talk about that right now.

1157
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:44,680
So I was like, no, I'm fine.

1158
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:47,160
Or I don't want to talk about it.

1159
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:53,240
It's so different when you make a space and get ready to go there.

1160
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:58,480
It's like therapy in a way, because you know, you, you know, you're coming to therapy, you

1161
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,560
know, you're going to be talking about that stuff.

1162
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:01,560
So you're more prepared.

1163
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:07,800
And I think that's what you do when you create like a podcast like this or a show, like what

1164
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:15,760
I'm doing, you've created a space in which you're ready to be vulnerable and you're ready

1165
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,040
to talk.

1166
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,040
It's easier.

1167
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:19,040
Yeah.

1168
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:24,200
I mean, do you, do you feel as a creative as well?

1169
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:32,040
Do you try and offer that safe space to people or, you know, like as much as you can?

1170
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,040
Oh, definitely.

1171
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,040
Definitely.

1172
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:40,280
I mean, I just think, I just think I'm just one of those people that prefers a more intimate,

1173
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,040
vulnerable conversation than a light fluffy one.

1174
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:44,040
Yeah.

1175
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,400
I think I try and cultivate those with my friends as much as I can, but I'm also very

1176
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:52,120
aware of if people don't, people don't feel like it or don't want to go there.

1177
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,960
That's so fine.

1178
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:59,900
More than fine actually, because that's also part of creating a safe space for someone

1179
01:08:59,900 --> 01:09:05,000
is also understanding when they don't want to talk and that's you protecting them.

1180
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,000
Yeah.

1181
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:07,000
So I don't know.

1182
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:08,000
I hope so.

1183
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,000
I feel like I'm pretty good at that.

1184
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:10,000
Yeah.

1185
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,000
I want to be.

1186
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:16,840
I definitely get the vibe from you, like as someone, as you say, of just meeting you today,

1187
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:22,440
but I definitely get the vibe of someone who's too very kind of, because I mean, it's one

1188
01:09:22,440 --> 01:09:24,680
of those things as well, isn't it?

1189
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:30,560
Where you, you as a creative person, but as a human being and we wear our hearts on our

1190
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,640
sleeves, there's a lot of empathy that comes with it.

1191
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,520
And I feel like, you know, empathy doesn't always come with trauma.

1192
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,200
It's, you know, you don't always have these experiences and then go and dictate, but I,

1193
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,000
you know, you talk about like being that kid where it's like went over to friend's houses

1194
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:53,400
and made stuff and you know, um, and I feel like, you know, underneath it all, underneath

1195
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,640
the layer of Tamsin is like, and you know, the aesthetic and people might be like, oh,

1196
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:59,000
Tamsin's really cool.

1197
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:00,480
And I'm really like this.

1198
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:01,480
Yeah.

1199
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:02,920
You're, you're a giant nerd.

1200
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:03,920
Yeah.

1201
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:04,920
Like my God.

1202
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:05,920
Yeah.

1203
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:11,560
So if you could tell, if you could give some advice to young Tamsin, like little Tamsin,

1204
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:12,840
what would you, what would you give her?

1205
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,400
What would you, what would be the advice?

1206
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,560
Like, you know, five, five things you could give her.

1207
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:26,200
You know, it's, it's a really hard question because I, I don't know how giving myself

1208
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:32,880
advice would change some things, you know, like it would be a lot of, a lot of stuff

1209
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,960
around self-worth and eating disorders and things like that.

1210
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:43,000
I feel like would play a huge part and then it would be like, but I don't know how to,

1211
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:47,360
I wish I could have given myself more confidence with singing cause I love to do it and I studied

1212
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:52,120
it for a long time, but I sang in secret while I still kind of do, even though it's something

1213
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:53,200
I love to do.

1214
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,480
It's a place that sits in me with a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear.

1215
01:10:57,480 --> 01:11:03,000
And all I want to do is yeah, be able to sing better.

1216
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:10,120
And even though I did it for so long and trained for so long, I'm not as good as I could be

1217
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,980
because I have too much fear to do it when anyone can hear me.

1218
01:11:12,980 --> 01:11:17,120
So it's like, well, that's going to, that's not going to help you get better at a thing.

1219
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:22,720
I wish I could somehow make myself feel okay with that, but I don't know where that fear

1220
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,080
came from.

1221
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:32,760
And then I just have no idea how I could make my teenage years any better, honestly, with

1222
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,520
advice because I'm not around eating disorder stuff.

1223
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:37,760
Like I still struggle with that.

1224
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:44,600
I've done recovery things and technically in recovery, but the way I think about stuff

1225
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:50,040
hasn't changed enough yet to be able to give myself advice on that.

1226
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,480
Cause I don't know.

1227
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:55,200
I don't know how to, I don't know how to fix it.

1228
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,200
Yeah.

1229
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:03,240
I think I would just say like, just start being, feeling freer to like say your ideas

1230
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:04,240
aloud.

1231
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:10,400
I feel like I kept so much stuff hidden and so many things that I thought was weird or

1232
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:18,000
shameful or like creative things that I felt I couldn't share with my friends cause they

1233
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,360
were cool and they wouldn't get it.

1234
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:26,440
And I was like, oh, they knew that I was like building all these amazing houses for these

1235
01:12:26,440 --> 01:12:28,720
dolls that I used to play with when I was little.

1236
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:33,280
It's like, I understand that maybe I'm a bit older and I shouldn't have like these dolls

1237
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:38,520
now, but it's more like I wasn't playing with them.

1238
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,280
Like they were my friends.

1239
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,080
It was like I was building little worlds and scenes and scapes.

1240
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:47,320
And it's like, that was just me trying to figure out how to make theatre and how to

1241
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:48,320
make art.

1242
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:49,920
But I didn't know that that's what I was doing.

1243
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:54,040
I just thought it was this thing that I liked doing that was really shameful because I was

1244
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,600
probably too old to like play with dolls in that way.

1245
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:04,480
But I didn't understand that that was what I was doing had so much connection to what

1246
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:05,480
I do now.

1247
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:11,960
And that was just me practicing like building sets or like making theatre.

1248
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:16,320
But instead it just looked like I was still like had dolls in my room and I was playing

1249
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:17,320
with like Barbies.

1250
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:22,400
I wish I was prouder of the things that I made when I was younger, but I think I kept

1251
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:28,960
it really hidden because I just thought my friends were so cool and I was just not on

1252
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:29,960
the inside.

1253
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:39,200
I just felt like I did not fit in and I couldn't possibly fit in if they knew what I really

1254
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:42,000
loved doing or if they knew I went to so many acting classes.

1255
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,000
They kind of knew I did, but I wouldn't tell them about it.

1256
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,800
Or if they knew I went to singing classes, they knew, but I wouldn't tell them about

1257
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:47,800
it.

1258
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,760
Like you gotta stay cool.

1259
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:55,760
I think that you really hit something on the nail on the head there and I'll show you a

1260
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,080
story as well.

1261
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:04,080
But you know, like I definitely, if I were to tell my young self, well, you know, like

1262
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:10,640
a lot about now, I think I would, you know, just really tell myself like to give myself

1263
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:15,200
credit where credit's due and also not be so harsh on myself.

1264
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:26,280
Because I was way too self-critical and like you, I had an eating disorder, which still

1265
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:31,080
have lapses in occasionally.

1266
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:36,400
And it's one of those things that I talk about predominantly, but also a lot of my teenage

1267
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:48,160
years were very depressed and very like, you know, slacking and self-worth.

1268
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:52,920
And I think one of the hardest things, and kudos to my all-time best friend who has known

1269
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:57,720
me like through so many trials and tribulations kind of thing, that she's just kind of really

1270
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,320
helped me through all of that.

1271
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:04,400
Because there's a lot of sides that she saw and she stuck by me with all these years that

1272
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,160
I was just like, I wasn't pleasant to be around.

1273
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:17,920
I was very negative or I was very, I want to say just like trying to blame situations

1274
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,720
that were external to actually what was going on.

1275
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:27,280
And I think a lot of the time there was just a lot of situations where I just didn't talk

1276
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:33,280
and didn't process emotion at all properly to the point where I just didn't think I was

1277
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,640
worth anyone's time.

1278
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:44,040
And I think one of the things was, you know, I had a funeral a couple of years back now.

1279
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:49,440
And one of my friends sadly passed away from high school.

1280
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:54,080
It was one of those things that when we went to the funeral and it was a bunch of reconnecting

1281
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:59,200
with a bunch of people who I hadn't seen in years, and that was a real kind of like therapeutic

1282
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,880
thing in some ways because I, you know, it was like 10 years, nine years later.

1283
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,200
And then all these people were saying, I'm sorry how I treated you in high school and

1284
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:09,760
you know, bullied you and everything.

1285
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:14,400
But it was kind of like one of those things that, you know, in some ironic ways they have

1286
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:19,760
shaped me to be the person I am today because I'm very kind and considerate of a lot of

1287
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:20,760
different people.

1288
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:25,080
But there was a lot of things that people didn't know about me at high school and things

1289
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:29,600
that I didn't even know about myself.

1290
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:35,200
But you know, the thing was I was always trying to be kind and considerate to other people.

1291
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:40,760
And I think I just felt, you know, even and it's interesting as well because I have an

1292
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,320
older brother, but I always felt alone.

1293
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:51,240
And that was one thing that I definitely as a teenager always felt alone and, you know,

1294
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:57,400
in my own head and you know, I had very few friends that I connected with and a lot of

1295
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:03,320
them actually from high school I don't speak to anymore, which is, you know, just because

1296
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,280
they weren't in the creative field and I just went on to go and do other things.

1297
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:11,240
But I think the friends that I do have now, you know, really understand me a lot better

1298
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,340
than I think.

1299
01:17:13,340 --> 01:17:15,520
And sometimes that I give them credit for.

1300
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:22,880
I think that's like even to this day, I don't give myself all the credit that is, you know,

1301
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:23,880
worth it.

1302
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:24,880
Yeah.

1303
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:25,880
It's a hard thing to do.

1304
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:26,880
It's a hard thing to see yourself.

1305
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:27,880
I don't know.

1306
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:33,520
I mean, some people I'm sure, but it sounds like we have very similar, similar feelings.

1307
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,800
Like I find it so hard to see myself as worthy of stuff.

1308
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:43,480
And I think that's where all the chasing after people and doing a million things comes from.

1309
01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:49,320
And trying to reach a point where I feel like I'm enough and it feels like there's always

1310
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:52,600
so much to do to get there.

1311
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,400
Always.

1312
01:17:54,400 --> 01:18:03,680
And so if I find something that I love that fulfills me along the way, then thank God,

1313
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,200
honestly, like that's...

1314
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:07,520
The high school thing is so interesting.

1315
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:13,560
I feel like I'm such a different side of myself to a lot of my high school friends.

1316
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:17,880
Like this is a particular version of me.

1317
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,360
And then to creative field friends, I'm like, this is a different version of me.

1318
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:26,280
And it's only slowly being able to merge.

1319
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:28,720
And I think, I don't know what that is.

1320
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:35,000
It's just, it's a slow merge of two different parts of me coming together.

1321
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,920
But then also there's a lot of stuff I hide from heaps of people.

1322
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:44,400
I feel like I have like different facets of my personality.

1323
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:48,440
And I'm like, this is the one that I have to be for this person.

1324
01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:49,920
This is the one I have to be for that person.

1325
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:51,960
This is the one I have to be for my family.

1326
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,360
This is the one I have to be in the audition room.

1327
01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:00,640
This is the one I have to be when I'm seeing my old high school friends.

1328
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,840
I don't think I've reached a point where I get to be all of them at once.

1329
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:11,040
I definitely feel like I know which ones are more embodied and more real and feel more

1330
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,440
like the whole of me.

1331
01:19:12,440 --> 01:19:18,240
But the other ones, even the ones I don't love so much, I guess, are still a part of

1332
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:19,240
me.

1333
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:26,960
I think it's also like, you know, and you're definitely someone who I think is very genuine.

1334
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:31,760
Even though you're talking about, you know, having multiple facets of, you know, different

1335
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:32,760
sides that you show people.

1336
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,960
I don't think any of them aren't necessarily the true you.

1337
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:36,960
Yeah, totally.

1338
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,360
They're definitely all the true me.

1339
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:45,400
Some are more, some feel more me than others, I think.

1340
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:46,400
But they're all me.

1341
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:48,920
I just get to, I just have to express in different ways.

1342
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:49,920
I think that's what it is.

1343
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,480
It's a weird thing to think about.

1344
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:58,280
But there's, you know, you hide, I feel like most people hide my worst days, my really

1345
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:01,040
bad eating disorder days, my really bad anxiety days.

1346
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:05,600
But you know, I don't really let people see them.

1347
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,600
I've been dealing with it enough by myself.

1348
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:08,880
I know how to deal, you know.

1349
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,560
It's like, this is a lone thing.

1350
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,880
Except now that I have a partner, they have to witness it, which is, which sucks for them.

1351
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:20,520
But I mean, they're, you know, like, I think, you know, one of the things I say about my

1352
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:24,960
partner all the time is, you know, she's amazing and an incredible person.

1353
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,200
And she has just seen me in my highs and lows.

1354
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:32,640
And I think I said to her the other day, I was like, there's no one I'd rather be absolutely

1355
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:36,120
my lowest next to than you, which is-

1356
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:38,120
That's so nice.

1357
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:39,120
Yeah.

1358
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:43,280
It's, you know, it's, it's very humbling finding someone who just kind of can, you know, see

1359
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:49,040
through it and stuff and know that deep down your own like worries and stuff.

1360
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:51,960
I feel like it's a lot about communication.

1361
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:52,960
That's what I'm getting better at.

1362
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:58,080
If I'm having those times, it's like the only way to get through it, if someone has to be

1363
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,480
a part of it, or you need to talk to someone or something, you have to let someone in,

1364
01:21:01,480 --> 01:21:03,880
is to explain exactly what's going on.

1365
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:06,280
It's like, it's not you.

1366
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:07,280
I'm doing this.

1367
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,800
I'm feeling like this because of X, Y, and Z.

1368
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,680
And I know it's my Egan disorder brain or my ADHD brain or my anxiety, but like, I know

1369
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:15,920
what one is like triggering what.

1370
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,240
Actually that's just therapy.

1371
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,480
I just learned to do that from therapy.

1372
01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:21,480
Therapy helps.

1373
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:22,480
Everyone go to therapy.

1374
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:23,480
Go to therapy.

1375
01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:26,760
So it's an important thing.

1376
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:27,760
Just do it.

1377
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:28,760
Yeah.

1378
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:31,360
So, cause I am curious about this.

1379
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:32,360
So you do have ADHD?

1380
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:33,360
Yes, I do.

1381
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:34,360
Yeah.

1382
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,160
I have the inattentive type.

1383
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:43,680
The very off with the fairies, dreamy, never remember where my car is, always get lost,

1384
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:48,560
forget to text people back, but then we'll text you an essay about something else.

1385
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:54,080
I think you've now become my favorite person because that is ideally my type of brain as

1386
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:55,080
well.

1387
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,640
Cause, but how old were you when you got diagnosed?

1388
01:21:58,640 --> 01:21:59,640
Just this year.

1389
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:00,640
It's pretty recent.

1390
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:01,640
Wow.

1391
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:02,640
So it's all like new.

1392
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:03,640
Yeah, it's all new.

1393
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:05,400
Still, I'm still really learning about it.

1394
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:10,560
And it's, it's making things make so much more sense because overwhelm is a thing that

1395
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:11,560
I get.

1396
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:12,640
That's the worst thing about it.

1397
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,040
I think it's getting overwhelmed.

1398
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,040
Everything else I can deal with.

1399
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:22,720
Like being off with the fairies or dreamy and forgetful, like it's frustrating sometimes,

1400
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:26,560
but unless I'm running late, which I am all the time, most of the time it's just like

1401
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:28,960
a fluffy little world to live in.

1402
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:29,960
Cause you're in your own head.

1403
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,800
You're like, I can't find my keys, but my cat's really cute.

1404
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,680
And I forgot to do that yesterday.

1405
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:36,680
I'll do that now.

1406
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:37,880
I am going to put some washing on.

1407
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:38,880
What was I doing?

1408
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:39,880
Oh yeah.

1409
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:40,880
My keys.

1410
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:41,880
Oh yeah.

1411
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:42,880
I'm looking for my keys.

1412
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:43,880
Oh, there's a book I forgot to read.

1413
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:44,880
Where was I up to with that again?

1414
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:45,880
Oh, this page.

1415
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:46,880
Cool.

1416
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:47,880
I might have a bath.

1417
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,600
It's like, like it's not a bad little world to live in.

1418
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:59,240
You just, you just, you just forget stuff and things don't get done.

1419
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:04,800
But it's like, it's fine at the time.

1420
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:06,520
But it, yeah, it's bad if you have stuff on.

1421
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:07,520
Definitely.

1422
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:08,520
Yeah.

1423
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:09,520
It's really bad.

1424
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:14,160
But it's the, the overwhelm is the thing that was, is the hardest thing for me to deal

1425
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:15,160
with.

1426
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:16,160
You said you get overwhelmed.

1427
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:17,160
What's your reaction to that as well?

1428
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:18,500
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1429
01:23:18,500 --> 01:23:23,920
Like I think I've been diagnosed since it was five and one of the things that I definitely

1430
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:25,320
get is overwhelmed.

1431
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,200
I think what, you know, it's also kind of the ironic things.

1432
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:31,240
Like I, I do think of a lot of things.

1433
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,760
I need a plan before I go to bed about what I'm doing, especially when I'm going to work

1434
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:35,760
in the morning.

1435
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:40,480
I'm like, okay, everything needs to be in strategic order, but like, um, Emily has made

1436
01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:45,440
the kitchen like ADHD friendly, which means everything is within a reach of me making

1437
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:49,480
coffee in the morning or everything is like, you know, all the utensils are super easy

1438
01:23:49,480 --> 01:23:50,480
to find.

1439
01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:54,520
So I'm not like going to one end of the room and forgetting what I was doing and then going

1440
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,280
back to the, like, it's all inside.

1441
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:58,280
So I just do it.

1442
01:23:58,280 --> 01:23:59,280
Wow.

1443
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,560
This is, yeah, that's see, I'm still new.

1444
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:07,400
I don't know that I, I'm just at the point where I'm like, oh, it makes more sense why

1445
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:15,400
this is like that or why I, for a really good example at rehearsals the other day, um, this

1446
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:16,400
isn't my one woman show.

1447
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,440
This is a big ensemble piece that we finished last night.

1448
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:19,720
We performed it last night.

1449
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:24,960
It's done, but at rehearsals a couple of days ago, there's about 12 people in this piece

1450
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:26,560
and it's a development work.

1451
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,360
So it's constantly changing.

1452
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:29,600
There's a lot going on.

1453
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,440
There's heaps of people in the space, heaps of stuff in the space.

1454
01:24:32,440 --> 01:24:33,440
Everything was fine.

1455
01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:34,440
We were rehearsing.

1456
01:24:34,440 --> 01:24:35,440
I thought everything was fine.

1457
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:44,020
And then, um, a printer ran out of ink and for some reason that made me really upset.

1458
01:24:44,020 --> 01:24:47,720
Not that I, I don't like being upset or flustered in front of people.

1459
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:51,080
So I, I take myself out and sit, I'm like, I just need a minute.

1460
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:52,080
Hang on.

1461
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:56,440
And I go into another room and I feel my feelings because I don't impact anyone, especially

1462
01:24:56,440 --> 01:24:59,640
when it's career, especially when I'm acting, especially when it's work.

1463
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:05,280
I don't want to look like I'm, I get really nervous that if I get emotional or asked too

1464
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:10,680
many questions or feel like the question thing is bad, questions are obviously good to specify

1465
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:16,440
things, but sometimes in the overwhelm and in my brain, I get too many questions at once

1466
01:25:16,440 --> 01:25:20,080
and I don't want to seem annoying or hard to work with or not professional.

1467
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,620
So sometimes I just need to step away.

1468
01:25:23,620 --> 01:25:27,040
And I was crying and I was like, why am I so upset that the printer ran out of ink?

1469
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:28,040
Like what is happening?

1470
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:35,280
And normally I would just chalk it up to, I'm a really, I'm just like an emotional person

1471
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:37,520
and I cannot regulate myself and I'm a mess.

1472
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,000
I'm like a messy mess of a person.

1473
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:46,880
But now that I have a bit more awareness and I know I have this type of ADHD, I looked

1474
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:52,680
at the day and I went, it's not the printer.

1475
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:59,160
It's you had planned everything you were going to bring today and you knew that the one thing

1476
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:04,960
to finish your, we have to, we have to make our own little pieces of set for this because

1477
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:06,640
it was a bit of an interactive work.

1478
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:10,280
The one thing that I was missing was this picture of a mouse.

1479
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:11,280
That's what I needed.

1480
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:12,280
I couldn't get that anywhere else.

1481
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:16,400
I had to print that today, but everything else is ready and I needed an extra 15 minutes

1482
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:17,400
or something.

1483
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,000
Like I had a scheduled break and I was like, that's when I'm going to do the mouse thing.

1484
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,840
But what happened instead was like my script got changed, the direction got changed.

1485
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:28,840
All of a sudden I got put in charge of during the performance, stopping and starting some

1486
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,640
tech because it was like kind of in my space and I could stop and start it.

1487
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:37,200
A couple of directions, like blocking directions got changed.

1488
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:42,000
Sometimes stuff like that is fine, but all of a sudden it was like a lot of brand new

1489
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,120
information at once.

1490
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,200
And then the printer didn't print.

1491
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,560
And I was like, that was the one thing I thought I was controlling today, that I knew that

1492
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,960
my mouse was going to print and I was going to stick it on this thing and that was going

1493
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:53,960
to be done.

1494
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,320
And that was going to be one thing that I knew I had done right.

1495
01:26:57,320 --> 01:26:59,680
And it looks exactly how I wanted it to look.

1496
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:00,680
And that's checked off.

1497
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:03,200
The rest of the stuff I can't control because it's the director.

1498
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:11,560
But this one thing that I know that I'm going to feel proud of that I did also didn't work.

1499
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,040
And that was the end.

1500
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:14,440
I like had a meltdown.

1501
01:27:14,440 --> 01:27:19,080
I was like, I feel like such an idiot because I'm crying about a picture of a mouse.

1502
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:20,080
Like what is that?

1503
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:21,080
But now I know.

1504
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:24,040
And I'm like, okay, no, too many things changed at once.

1505
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:28,640
And it was just, I just couldn't process everything I had to do at once.

1506
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:33,840
I sat on it for a couple of hours, we rehearsed, I did all the things and it was fine.

1507
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,560
The mouse printed eventually and it was fine.

1508
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:42,880
But it was just at that moment, too many new things had happened at once.

1509
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:46,400
And then the one thing I thought I could control, I couldn't control.

1510
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,560
And then I wasn't proud of this one tiny mouse picture.

1511
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:49,560
I don't know.

1512
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:53,880
It's easier to rationalize things now that I've been diagnosed and that things are making

1513
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:54,880
more sense.

1514
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:55,880
That was a really convoluted answer.

1515
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:56,880
Sorry.

1516
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:57,880
See, I got carried away.

1517
01:27:57,880 --> 01:27:58,880
I love that though.

1518
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:04,400
I love the, you know, I've automatically just, can I just say this entire conversation I've

1519
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:12,120
loved, I've loved to the nth degree because this is entirely how I think.

1520
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:22,800
And it's really nice talking to someone who thinks as insane as I do on a daily basis

1521
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:24,280
and I'm not alone.

1522
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,720
Yeah, that's nice.

1523
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:28,200
It's nice to know actually.

1524
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:31,040
Because yeah, like, you know, I get that all the time.

1525
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:37,800
And I think just because of dealing with it for such a long time and knowing what it is,

1526
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:41,560
but even now I'll still look at videos online going, oh, I do that.

1527
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:42,960
Oh, I do that.

1528
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:45,240
Oh yeah, I also do that.

1529
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:51,600
And it's so many traits where I just sort of try and focus on too many things at once

1530
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:56,280
or I do a bunch of things and I'm like, I need to just slow down.

1531
01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:01,640
And not let things get, but I remember once I got so frustrated once we put, we were delivering

1532
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:05,840
some Vinny stuff and we put it on the back seat of the car and cause it was so heavy,

1533
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,680
it thought it was a passenger.

1534
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,120
Like it started setting off the car belt alarm.

1535
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:11,120
Oh no.

1536
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:17,240
And I got so shitty so quickly that we were halfway through the drive that I just snapped.

1537
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:22,680
I was like, I was so angry and like Emily, my amazing partner, she just kind of was like,

1538
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:23,680
that's not you.

1539
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:31,360
I'm like, no, that's very much the frustrated and can't control this one element.

1540
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,200
And it's just going off.

1541
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:37,760
And that's my brain's just panicking with this like scenario in the back seat.

1542
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:44,920
It's interesting because, yeah, the things that get me eventually are always something,

1543
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:50,000
it always weirdly has something to do with control in a way, like something I can't control.

1544
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:55,440
But also I'm not a controlled, controlling, organized person at all.

1545
01:29:55,440 --> 01:29:56,920
And I'm okay with that.

1546
01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:59,440
So that's where it's so confusing.

1547
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:05,480
I still don't understand that aspect, but I think it's like I want, or I have an image

1548
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:09,120
or I have an idea of what something or what my day is going to look like.

1549
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:10,120
Yeah.

1550
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,440
What my day is going to look like or what something I'm working on is going to look like.

1551
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:16,400
And it's the struggle to get to the finished product.

1552
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,640
And then all of a sudden too many things change or something.

1553
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:23,420
I don't know what it is, but yeah, it always ends up being something that I feel like I

1554
01:30:23,420 --> 01:30:29,080
should have controlled better or predicted the outcome of something that is the straw

1555
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:30,880
that breaks the camel's back.

1556
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:36,600
And I can get upset about or overwhelmed and I just need, I don't know, I just need to

1557
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,360
stop everything to stop, gather up my brain.

1558
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:44,260
I love it, especially the delirium when you get tired and your brain just like the neurons

1559
01:30:44,260 --> 01:30:46,760
get faster and faster.

1560
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,560
That's my favorite, knocking into sleep.

1561
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:53,840
This, I just write, that's list time, write lists, listen to podcasts.

1562
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:54,840
Yeah.

1563
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:59,520
But yeah, it's always like, I said a dumb thing to a person that if I can't sleep, it's

1564
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:04,760
normally I'm repeating all of the silly things that I've said in that day or in that lifetime.

1565
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:12,240
I mean, can I just say though, you are honestly amazing and such a fantastic human being.

1566
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:13,520
I just want you to know that.

1567
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:14,520
Oh, that's really nice.

1568
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:15,520
Thank you.

1569
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:23,520
And I'm going to wrap this up, but yeah, I really think that as a person, as a creative

1570
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:31,280
and yeah, there's so many more questions I would like fill up a day asking you and getting

1571
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:32,280
to know you.

1572
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,240
You're just full of life and full of bouncing energy.

1573
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:40,120
And I think that's like, but you're very unique and that's good thing.

1574
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:41,120
Thanks.

1575
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:42,120
That's really sweet.

1576
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:43,120
That's really nice.

1577
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:49,200
So my next question for you, Tamsen is where can people stalk you and find you on the internet?

1578
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:51,760
Where is the best way to find you?

1579
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:55,720
Definitely Instagram on the internet.

1580
01:31:55,720 --> 01:32:04,520
It's at Misty Hayes, M-I-S-S-T-H-A-Y-E-S, which has a funny story behind it because,

1581
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,680
which I'll tell really quickly.

1582
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:10,880
My mum wanted to call me Misty as a child.

1583
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:15,480
And my dad, look, whether or not this is true, but this goes down in like the, the family

1584
01:32:15,480 --> 01:32:16,480
history books.

1585
01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:20,600
Apparently my dad said, I don't want to name my daughter after a weather condition because

1586
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,040
my name, my name would have been Misty Hayes.

1587
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:26,520
And I wish that was my name.

1588
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:28,520
I love that so much.

1589
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:32,160
I think that's brilliant.

1590
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:38,440
But once I got a little bit older and I started receiving mail, it would always be addressed

1591
01:32:38,440 --> 01:32:42,440
to Misty Hayes and I'd be like, mum, you got it.

1592
01:32:42,440 --> 01:32:44,080
You got, I'm Misty Hayes.

1593
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:45,320
You got it.

1594
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:48,680
You got the name in the end in a really roundabout way.

1595
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,080
And that is why my Instagram is Misty Hayes.

1596
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,840
I still like my name, but I don't know.

1597
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:59,360
There's something about the idea of being a weather condition that I really love.

1598
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:00,800
I love that so much.

1599
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:01,800
I don't get to tell that.

1600
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:03,240
I don't get to say that very often.

1601
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:07,280
So I was like, oh, well, may as well tell this funny story.

1602
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:10,520
That's a great anecdote.

1603
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:14,080
But no, thank you so much for joining me on this amazing adventure.

1604
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:16,880
I will pick your brains off mic as well.

1605
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:17,880
Always.

1606
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:18,880
Go for it.

1607
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:20,160
Thanks so much for having me.

1608
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:21,400
I mean, I'll come back anytime.

1609
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:22,400
Oh, thank you.

1610
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:23,400
Yeah.

1611
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:24,400
It's awesome.

1612
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:25,400
I love this podcast.

1613
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:26,400
I was telling you that during the week.

1614
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:29,040
I've been listening to it on my drives to and from rehearsals and it's awesome.

1615
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:30,840
Yeah, I'm really into it.

1616
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:33,120
So I feel very honored that you got me on today.

1617
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:34,120
Thank you.

1618
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:35,120
Thank you.

1619
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:36,120
That means the world.

1620
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:37,120
That means the world.

1621
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:38,800
And you're usually the last guest of my year as well.

1622
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:45,480
So congratulations on being like this crazy year that is 2022.

1623
01:33:45,480 --> 01:33:52,480
So next week will be the Christmas special, which you know, so when this comes out, but

1624
01:33:52,480 --> 01:33:53,480
yeah, that's surreal.

1625
01:33:53,480 --> 01:33:55,240
So it's been two years.

1626
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:59,080
So I'm kind of just a bit in a celebratory kind of yay.

1627
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:00,080
That's amazing.

1628
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:01,080
Yes.

1629
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:02,080
Yay.

1630
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:03,080
Congratulations.

1631
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:04,080
That's a huge milestone.

1632
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:05,080
I know.

1633
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:08,120
It's, it's, you know, went to what three years for it.

1634
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:10,120
And it's like one of those things.

1635
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:14,880
Yeah, I don't, I don't, I always kind of think that, you know, that we talk about milestones,

1636
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:19,520
but yeah, that's kind of like my milestone is when I have these like end of year wrap

1637
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:23,120
up episodes and I'm like, oh my God, there's so much that actually.

1638
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:25,520
That's yeah, that's so cool.

1639
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:26,520
That's a great one.

1640
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:27,520
Oh, that's, that's nice.

1641
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,520
I'm on like a celebratory end of year milestone episode.

1642
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:33,800
Yeah, take that in.

1643
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:35,280
Soak it in.

1644
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:36,280
I will.

1645
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:37,280
That's huge.

1646
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:38,280
I know.

1647
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:39,280
That's so nice.

1648
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,800
I actually, I have a podcast as well, but it's very niche compared to this.

1649
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,920
So yeah, one day we'll hit some goals like that.

1650
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:47,520
And I think I'll be celebrating too.

1651
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:48,520
What's it called?

1652
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:49,520
So we can just plug it real brief.

1653
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:55,400
My podcast is called scalpels and tequila, and it is purely about Grey's Anatomy.

1654
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:56,960
So it is your niche.

1655
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:03,040
And I, I understand if you don't all jump to it, cause you've got to, you've got to

1656
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,040
love that show.

1657
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:05,760
I'll tell my partner Emily about it.

1658
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:06,760
Cause she loves Grey's Anatomy.

1659
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:07,760
So, oh my gosh.

1660
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:08,760
Yeah.

1661
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:09,760
Come and join the chat.

1662
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:10,760
We have a fun time.

1663
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:14,480
Um, but yes, Misty Hayes on Instagram, Scalpels and Tequila podcast.

1664
01:35:14,480 --> 01:35:19,600
And the show that I've been talking about is called Never Said Motel, but, um, the Fringe

1665
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,840
Festival version will be over, but there is some more versions of it coming next year.

1666
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,920
And we'll go and check them out.

1667
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:29,880
And obviously if I ever post anything about Tamsin, you will see.

1668
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:32,400
That's a nice thank you.

1669
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:33,400
I'm not a stalker.

1670
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:34,400
She's amazing.

1671
01:35:34,400 --> 01:35:36,120
Um, but no, thank you Tamsin.

1672
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:37,120
Thank you so much.

1673
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:41,400
Um, and yeah, if you want to go and listen to more episodes of the things we do, you

1674
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:43,000
can check them out on Apple and Spotify.

1675
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:45,760
I'll be doing a Christmas special next week and New Year's special.

1676
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:49,000
But if you've all had a wonderful year, I'll speak to you next year.

1677
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:50,000
Goodbye.

1678
01:35:50,000 --> 01:36:09,540
Bye.