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And Lexi, how do you pronounce your last name?

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Gordon.

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Gordon.

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It's not, it looks really fancy.

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It looks fancy.

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But it's just-

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There's a story behind it.

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Do you want to explain that story?

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Yeah.

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So my mom studied numerology.

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Um, so, which is the study of numbers and fates and letters in the correlation of

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everything and how it all comes together in the world.

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So her name was Michelle, now it's Shelly.

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And she's also got three E's and I have three E's.

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So it equals the number of like karma and all these things and what you

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should expect out of your life and your personality.

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So she added a U in her last name after marrying my dad and changed his name

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from Gavin, G-A-V-I-N and then to G-A-V-E-J-N, Silent J, Gavagen, if you will.

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Um, yeah, so that's, that's that.

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And then they divorced and he kept it.

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So she says he liked it, but I think the paperwork was too much to change it back.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's a, that's an interesting time to get married and just like, oh,

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my partner changed my name and I've stuck with it and the paperwork's this thick.

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Like I'm not more.

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It's full on.

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Like it's cool.

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Like I believe in numerology to some extent, like I'm not some crazy, like I

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don't look at stars and see something, but it's like, I find that it tends to be

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a lot more accurate than this whole astrology sort of thing that runs into.

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Uh, astronomy.

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Yeah.

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No, is it astrology?

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No, astronomy.

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No.

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It's a what I feel like I'm winging out.

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Yeah.

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Well, which one is that?

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I think that's astrology.

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Is it?

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I said astrology.

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You said astronomy.

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Oh, is it?

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Oh no.

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Whatever we sound up.

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I just cannot remember anything.

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You know what the fascinating thing is?

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Like we're like, oh, we're filmmakers.

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And then it was like, you don't know shit astrology.

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Well, I realized no one knows shit.

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Like I started working at JV Hi-Fi after like, um, graduating to like make money

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for a gap year and they didn't onboard me.

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So I'm looking at these products worth thousands and tens of thousands of dollars.

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And I'm just selling them.

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And I actually don't know what they do or what they are.

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And the trick they taught you is that, you know, how they've got dot points on

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little cards, it's the trick is to read it quicker than them and turn it into

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sentences.

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Oh, so you actually don't know anything.

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And so don't trust those people.

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Like no one knows anything.

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Everyone's just faking it.

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And then I like lost trust in everyone's education and capability.

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And now I'm not even upset when I don't know something.

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I'm like, no one knows anything.

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Oh my God.

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Sad truths.

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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television,

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culture, mental health, and all that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend Lexi with three E's, Lexi Gordon.

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Thanks for having me. Perfect introduction.

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Thank you.

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It's important to acknowledge the three E's.

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You know, when I read that the first time, I was like, you know, and now that

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you've explained the story, I'm like, are you guys three E's in there?

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You can't criticize.

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You just have to admire.

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It's not Lexi.

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I do occasionally get people that know me doing the L-E-X-I.

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I find it offensive because I'm like, God, how long have you known me?

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But especially when it's on like something like Instagram or Facebook, where

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your name is literally above and they proceed to type the message with the I.

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And you're like, but it's right there.

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Just copy it.

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Anyway, it's the skills.

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It's a, you know, that reminds me of people at Starbucks when they constantly,

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you spell your name in front of them and they still give you the wrong name on the cup.

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You say Jerry and you get Mary.

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You get whatever they want.

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They pick your name.

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You just, you say to them, Oh, my name's Barry.

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They give you Tom.

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You're like, how did that?

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All right, sure.

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Whatever.

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The illusion of choice.

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I reckon it's just a marketing point.

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I reckon there was one really bad worker and then they're just like, he's onto something.

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Yeah.

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They were like, wow, this is sellable.

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Everyone comes here because they hate how we spell.

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But the issue is how many people have got in the wrong coffee order.

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Cause if you say my name's Martin and then they go Michael, and like you just take it.

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You're like, I think it's me.

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Yeah.

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But I think that's why they've learned when you go to Starbucks now that they say what

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the order is, they specifically go like a macchiato or like an

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iced coffee, like chocolate with sprinkles and you know,

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What a mature order.

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I always love going to like Starbucks is the most American franchise ever in Australia.

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And the co I found out recently, I went to, I went there.

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It was the best coffee advice I ever got from someone who worked there.

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They were like, Oh yeah, don't get this one.

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Cause it only comes with one shot of coffee.

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And I was like, Oh, I'm not going to get that.

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I'm not going to get that.

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I'm not going to get this one because it only comes with one shot of coffee.

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And it was a large and I was like, how does one large thing only come with one shot of coffee?

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It was like, nah, you just add an espresso shot.

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And I'm like, that's a ripoff.

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And he's like, I know, but I've worked here for 20 years.

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Well, I like, cause I'm not a coffee drinker.

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I discovered this was probably like a year ago, which is very embarrassing to admit.

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I didn't actually understand that coffee was all just the same thing with different like ratios.

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That was mind blowing.

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I'm like, Oh, come on.

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Like, so when people say like a long black with a little bit of milk, I'm like, so isn't that just like a, isn't that then got a formal different name?

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No, it's a long black with a little bit of milk.

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It's so confusing.

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Cause then if you go, can I have like a, like, I don't know, a latte with a bit of chocolate?

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I'm like, isn't that just a cappuccino?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So anyway, I don't know.

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I'm a little bit judgmental.

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You're just like, I've got my tea and that's all I ever.

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I am drinking tea.

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So if I pause.

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I'm like, I will say, um, before we start, you are allowed to swear on this podcast.

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So go, go.

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I'll try not to go too wild.

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My mom's been telling me, she's been telling me off.

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It's on the last part on podcasts.

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I like saw a little bit of my, all right, we're turning it down.

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I was just being too quick.

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So hopefully I'll use his mind's a double speed.

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She's got a heart.

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I just passed it over to my mom for a critique.

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That's all right.

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Um, so Lexi, I know a bit about you, but people on the internet might not know who you are.

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I'm going to get you to explain who you are and what you do.

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Wow.

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So vague.

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Um, this could be like a long, you know, biographical bubble.

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This could be like a log line.

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Um, so I studied film and TV production at JMC Academy.

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I graduated in 20, end of 2019, started 20, no lie.

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End of 2020.

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I'm like, where are we?

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COVID's messed me up.

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End of 2020, beginning 2021.

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I now work at Stan Australia, um, part time.

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I do social media marketing on the side, freelance, and I make films.

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There you go.

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Does that sum it up enough?

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It does.

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Cool.

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I love, I love that you're kind of like an entrepreneur kind of person as well, cause

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you're kind of very driven as well, which is like not unusual for people in this country,

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but I feel particularly now it's post COVID.

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It's like, we were all just like, what's a career?

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And you were just like, nah, fuck it.

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I'm going gross.

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I thrived in, I loved COVID, super controversial opinion.

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Everyone was like really sad and lonely.

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And I was like, I like, I was great.

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Like I got a social like media marketing diploma.

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I like pumped it out.

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I was like working three jobs all online.

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Like I was writing films.

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I loved lockdown.

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Yeah, look at you now.

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Yeah.

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Overwhelmed.

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Soon as you're out of social life.

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Yeah, I know.

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Isn't it weird?

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Um, so which, which, which of your journeys came first?

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So where did, where did, where did the Lexi journey start?

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How far back are we going?

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We're going back to childhood.

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Childhood, ooh.

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Um, so I'm a, I'm a twin.

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I have a twin brother named Jayden, spelled normally.

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Doesn't it have three A's?

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No, that'd be Jayden.

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Um, no, he's really cool.

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We get on really well.

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Um, and apparently I see when you're young, you don't know.

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I know I wanted to be a vet, like every other person ever liked a dog.

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Um, honestly.

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And then when I looked at the realities of it, I'm like, oh, um, I definitely liked acting.

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But my sister was the queen actress.

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She's like seven years older and she was super talented.

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So I kind of got knocked off my horse and I was like, yeah, maybe I'll leave it.

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You can't have two, um, struggling artists.

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So I let her have it.

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Um, she ends up quitting anyway.

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Now she's really successful in the corporate field.

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Oh, good.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, better than acting, right?

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No, you're kidding.

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No, different paths.

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Um, and then I really wanted to like do filmmaking.

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I used to like write like little novels and I was like super young.

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I spent like seven months at the laptop, like writing short stories, which at the time I thought was super normal.

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But now I look back and I'm like, wow, where are they?

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Could be inspo.

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Um, uh, I used to draw a lot.

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I did.

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I wanted to be an artist.

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But then I was like, do artists make money?

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Um, and they do guys, they can make money, but I wasn't prepared to find out.

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So I did it.

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Um, yeah.

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Is it filmmaking?

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So different writers?

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So I was like, I was like, okay, how, how is your financial bank account going?

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Not great.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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It just gets fun.

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Yeah, I know.

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It's just like, oh, I had a lot of money at the beginning of today and now I'm zero dollars.

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You're telling me literally last week.

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I was like, look to my account.

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I was like, looks all right.

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Like this is my spending for the week.

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Dead set.

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Woke up the next morning and it was in the negatives.

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I'm like, I'm confused.

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And I looked and I'm like Adobe, like Canva, like frame, all these film softwares and like

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graphic design.

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Goodbye.

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Took everything in one go.

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I was like, you're kidding me.

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Like I know.

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And like I get the Adobe suite.

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Um, and it's yeah, it's 70 bucks a month.

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And it's so ridiculous.

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Cause I remember you could pay outright for the stuff originally.

254
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,700
It was like 150, what, 200 bucks.

255
00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:07,700
And then you would just owned it.

256
00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:09,120
Do they not do that anymore?

257
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,320
No, they don't do it.

258
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,800
Cause you've got the creative cloud and they always ask you for updates.

259
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,800
So that's why you pay a subscription fee of enormous preposterous price.

260
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:24,440
Um, but it's, it's, it's why I always are like, I have the, uh, like downloadable DaVinci

261
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,320
and not the paid DaVinci on my laptop because I don't want to ever sort of upgrade.

262
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,960
I do think they stuff you over though, because I've had some times where I'm like, am I

263
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:33,960
kidding?

264
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:34,960
Okay.

265
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,120
So this is a rant on Adobe, Adobe, if you're listening, fix it.

266
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:42,760
So what they do and what they did, I don't know is, so you know how, like when you get

267
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,280
one, you actually have to like download the updated software.

268
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,720
Like mine doesn't automatically.

269
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,360
So then I'll have that.

270
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,720
And I just assume they're on the same payment because whatever it's the same software, just

271
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,080
one's updated.

272
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,600
But instead I was getting charged double for the same thing.

273
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,160
I was like, are you kidding me?

274
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,240
Like I'm already like broke down to like, are you like, how much more do you want to

275
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,240
strip us?

276
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:06,240
My God.

277
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,160
But you remember like, this is the industry where we're basically corporations bitches.

278
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:17,000
Like, you know, we are really, you know, it's like, you said at the beginning, like actors

279
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,000
are our prostitutes.

280
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,000
Like I didn't say like that.

281
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,000
Martin's making me sound terrible.

282
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,680
I said in the industry, it feels like the way that it works in a hierarchical manner

283
00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,160
and the way that people are used.

284
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,400
And there's a good quote from Peaky Blinders that will justify this.

285
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:37,720
And he says like, are you a prostitute to grace, like one of the supporting actresses?

286
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,000
And she says, why would you say that?

287
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,480
And he goes, we're all prostitutes, grace.

288
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,000
We all just sell different parts of ourselves.

289
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,200
So now I look at everything as a type of prostitution.

290
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,520
Not that that's a bad thing.

291
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,520
It's just life.

292
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:50,520
Everything's transactional.

293
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,240
But I think in the industry, I find that when you're first starting out, the hierarchical

294
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,800
system works as, you know, directors, producers at the top, actors kind of somewhere in the

295
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:00,800
middle.

296
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,680
But I find that actors, because they're giving their vulnerability in their mind and their

297
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,360
heart, and they're just splaying it out and they're just being thrown everywhere and having

298
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:08,600
to do things.

299
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,840
They're almost prostituting themselves out for a project, right?

300
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:12,840
Yeah, 100%.

301
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,840
But that flips because when they're really famous, boy, do they move everybody else around

302
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:18,840
their schedule.

303
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:19,960
They got to get their angle right.

304
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,360
Like it's just different.

305
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,200
But I mean, directors prostitute their hearts and their labor.

306
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,680
I mean, everyone prostitutes something.

307
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:27,920
It's just, that's what it is.

308
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,920
That's the game.

309
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,240
And it's such a like a turnstile industry as well.

310
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,040
And I think it's a lot less brutal than it used to be.

311
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:45,600
Like I think back in the day, especially like even when I started working in TV in 2014,

312
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,160
it was definitely a bit different than it is now.

313
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,200
But you know, it's interesting because you had that conversation of like, are we becoming

314
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,680
too soft and everything?

315
00:12:54,680 --> 00:13:02,520
And I think pros and cons, I'm very much like you go to what you do, you focus on a job

316
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,200
and you try and do the best of the year, really.

317
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,360
Don't bully anyone on set is kind of like my sense.

318
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,120
Like don't be a dickhead.

319
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,720
But the other side of it is just also when I meet people who don't attempt anything and

320
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,840
I'm like, well, then you're a waste of my time.

321
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,560
And I don't know if you're like this as well.

322
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,760
Like when I see people and maybe this is just working for like TV and it might be similar

323
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,560
in Stan.

324
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:32,560
But I definitely have at times just been very, when I'm training people especially, and I'm

325
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,320
like, oh, you need to know, like, you need to know these things and you need to know

326
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,880
faces and you need to know who you're talking to.

327
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,760
And you just need to do a bit of research on everyone and like do as much home research

328
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,960
as you can.

329
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,680
So that will make your day to day experience a little easier.

330
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,280
And when people don't do that and you've sort of been training them for like two months

331
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:56,600
or something and it's, I start to go, okay, then I'm not bothering to train you anymore

332
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,360
because I've used my two months preciously to help you.

333
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,440
And if you haven't learned, then goodbye and fly on your own.

334
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,760
Because if your wings get clipped by someone else, I'm not going to feel too sorry for

335
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:09,760
you.

336
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,720
Yeah, no, like, thankfully the company is actually a really nice company and everyone's

337
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,260
it started really small though.

338
00:14:15,260 --> 00:14:18,800
Like when I joined, this is like a year and a half ago, almost two years now.

339
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:19,800
Wow.

340
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,360
When I started, it was, it was like 65 people.

341
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:24,680
Now it's suddenly like 250.

342
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:25,680
What?

343
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:26,680
Yeah, it really grew.

344
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:27,680
Like we've now got two offices.

345
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:28,680
But was that when Stan was just like a minute?

346
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:29,680
No, they're now seven years old.

347
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,680
You had a first ladies and gentlemen.

348
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:31,680
Yeah, I was like, hang on, I feel old now.

349
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:32,680
Yeah, no, I think they're seven now.

350
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,680
Yeah.

351
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,680
So yeah, but they're actually a really nice company.

352
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,680
And I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do that.

353
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:36,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

354
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:37,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

355
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

356
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:45,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

357
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

358
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:57,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

359
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:12,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

360
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:31,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

361
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:46,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

362
00:15:46,680 --> 00:16:02,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

363
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:17,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

364
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:36,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

365
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:51,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

366
00:16:51,680 --> 00:17:07,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

367
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:22,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

368
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:31,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

369
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:38,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

370
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:45,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

371
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:54,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

372
00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:01,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

373
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:09,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

374
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:18,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

375
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:28,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

376
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:35,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

377
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:46,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

378
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:53,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

379
00:18:53,680 --> 00:19:10,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

380
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,680
I'm not going to be able to do that.

381
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,800
you know what, that's actually phenomenal because there are so many actors of like younger ages or

382
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,240
different experiences, whatever, that just really aren't like they just they like don't have the

383
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,880
stamina, which is understandable. Like no one should have the stamina for like 13 hour days.

384
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,440
It's exhausting. But like it's phenomenal because he really just did not complain. He just sat there

385
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,520
and he just did what he had to do. And like that was something I really respect about Robin.

386
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,280
Yeah. And I think I think the only ever complaint I got about him like was when he his character of

387
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,240
my set didn't have anything to say and he was just like, yes, he was a silent character.

388
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,240
Only because we weren't filming his dialogue bits and it was just more we needed him to repeat it

389
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,800
so that we could get reaction shots of people. But it was one of those things that it was like,

390
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,680
once we got to the end, it was it was fine. And he was very excited, but it was just getting him,

391
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:08,160
you know, getting past all the coverage to get back to here. So it's always like I do love but

392
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,840
I also agree because I've worked with people of varying different ages. And so, you know,

393
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:17,040
I agree with that whole thing of age is not really like some people just it's not a factor. It's not

394
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,160
down to stamina. Yeah. And I think I've worked with some phenomenal actors who just, you know,

395
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:28,480
we've driven like two hours away to film something and then gone home and you want to be there for

396
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,600
like three hours. But it's, you know, everyone just has a great time and just goes, oh, I understand

397
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,840
why this is like at this location and you know, absurd as it is. But everyone has a great time.

398
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:45,600
Everyone has a laugh. And at the end of the day, they just enjoy creating. Like, and I think,

399
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:51,360
I've definitely met some actors who just go, I don't know why, like, you know, they don't learn

400
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:56,000
their lines. That drives me mental. Like, have you ever had like actors who have sort of not done

401
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:02,080
prep as well? It's hard because I feel like sometimes they do but they literally just forget

402
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:08,080
it when they're not set and like understandable probably like cracks down to a lack of experience

403
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,320
or a lack of effort. Like, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe stage fright. I'm not sure.

404
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,720
But like we did one film last year, Girl, which is almost done editing, which sounds like it's

405
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,600
almost done. But no, we have sound. We've got post sound still. Yes, we're never quite done.

406
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:28,080
And Scarlett, who was the lead, I was like, because the character was fun. She had flexibility.

407
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,280
And I was like, I was like, you've got your sort of foundation, like free ball, free ball on top

408
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:39,200
of the foundation and just give it life. And that was great. But yeah, yeah, there's definitely

409
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,400
moments where I think actors forget their lines. And it's difficult because some, but then it

410
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,120
depends because in rehearsal, some actors don't like to learn their lines. And for me who,

411
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,640
maybe you're the same, I think every director is the same. There's like 70 renditions of the same

412
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,520
script. And the week before there's still adjustments to dialogue. So for them, are you

413
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,240
even doing that? No, I do. But my eye was twitching because it's like, I feel that pain.

414
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,280
Yeah, there always is. Because then you start seeing like, you know, we had like a five day

415
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,920
like break. Yeah. I don't know. Something like that between first block and second block. And

416
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,680
in the second block, I was editing dialogue. I was like, because you then you see it and you're

417
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:21,200
like, this would work better to kind of stitch it. But yeah, so I understand why some actors

418
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,400
in rehearsals don't want to learn it off by heart. Cause they're like, this is just going to change.

419
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:30,320
Yeah, 100%. And I think also it depends on, I think one of the things that especially it depends

420
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,040
on the voice. And also like I've discovered things in rehearsals that I like the sound of better

421
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,920
massively. And I'm like, okay, that's going in the dialogue. Like,

422
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,120
yeah, sometimes it sounds good in your head, but they can't pull it off and that's fine. But then

423
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:46,080
you need to, you know, move and change. Yeah, 100% is such a flexible environment. I also just,

424
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,360
I'm such a collaborator as well. You know, I've always asked people for different advices. I

425
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:56,640
think like that's why I love working with Robin as well. Cause he'll throw you advice to go,

426
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:02,640
this might work better. And here's a suggestion. But I also think that I, you know, it comes down

427
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,200
to a level of respect where they don't overtake your project. They just kind of let you, they let

428
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,560
they go, here's a suggestion at the end of the day, it is yours, but you know, this might do

429
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,280
sense that might work, might not. And I love that because, you know, I've worked with, um,

430
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,920
variance people. And I also think that because I've worked with people, some people who aren't,

431
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,880
who aren't actors by trade and they've sort of done, you know, short films and stuff with me

432
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,920
and even they're great. Like they've just kind of like jumped at the chance to do, like one of my

433
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,560
best friends in the whole world is a, um, an amazing human being. He's mostly just a fun,

434
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,840
creative person, but he never learned how to act in a million years, but he does great. Like he

435
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,960
does voices, he does everything. Cause he did, he learned how to do puppetry. He learned how to do

436
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,320
like, you know, um, drawing and comic style art. Like he just did it all. And he's got all this

437
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,040
backlog of characters that he's learned how to do, but it's not come from the proper training of

438
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:05,440
acting. So he just does them. So it's so, it's so does, but I mean, like it's, it's also comes

439
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,440
down to just, I guess it comes down to having fun because you know, it's, it's, it's funny when we

440
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,240
say we talk about skillset and everything. And I think sometimes the best kind of performances

441
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,720
come out of people who really thoroughly enjoy it. Yeah. It's also a tough one. It depends on the

442
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,040
kind of stories you're telling as well. Right? Like some stories, they really have to crack their

443
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,080
heart open and pour out some trauma and it's exhausting. Like that's not fun, but they have

444
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,480
to like everyone in the industry is in the industry because they absolutely love what they do

445
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:40,880
unconditionally. And I think that's hard because you know, like most of us aren't being paid. And

446
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:46,800
if we are, it's not a whole fortune. It's what do you mean that $50 like for the days? No, but like

447
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,960
some people do get paid. Some people get paid nicely, but it's still below their rates. Oh God.

448
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,640
Nicely for like a corporate job. Yes. You know, so I think, you know, it is a love of labor,

449
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:02,720
labor of love, labor of love. I remember like I helped a friend with their short film that has

450
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,920
done reasonably well and it was shot on an iPhone and everything. And I didn't expect to get paid

451
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,240
at all. I expected to just kind of help him out with some things that he had helped me out on a

452
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:18,000
project. And he divvied up the fundraising campaign that he had done for it and gave everyone like

453
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,920
120 bucks just to kind of like, I was like, that's really sweet. Like, um, just cause of labor. And

454
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,160
he was like, I know it's not much, but it's something I can do for people. And everyone got fed.

455
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:34,160
Um, so as one of those experiences, I think it doesn't matter what you do, as long as people

456
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:40,320
feel appreciated, because it's hard enough making a film from like, from scratch where you're

457
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,160
spending the writing time and you're spending like, but I think, um, yeah, it's, it's funny.

458
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,680
I've worked on, I've worked on a few films where I've never gotten paid. And I think one of the

459
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,800
things is always look for good food. Um, food is key because it will mean you've got a happy crew,

460
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,520
you have a happy cast. Um, and I also just think, make sure everyone feels appreciated to be there.

461
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,160
Like if you're not paying people or you're paying people very low, um, make sure everyone's having

462
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,960
a good time that you've got a good, either, um, PA or, you know, first ID who is checking in on

463
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:19,600
people and making sure they're all having fun because, you know, it's like, as you say,

464
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,000
13 nowadays, you don't want to sit there just going, no one's checked in on me. Where's my water?

465
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,360
Um, that's, that's the hardest thing. And I think, you know, like as we were talking about before,

466
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,880
like, you know, don't worry, darling's the prime example of a set you don't want to have happen.

467
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:41,760
Um, you know, but I think like, it's, it's one of those things that I think you learn very quickly.

468
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,120
You learn, you know, especially when you've been on sets. Cause I remember like the first ever set

469
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:52,240
I was on was when I was 18 and that really taught me about, you know, at least good set etiquette.

470
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Um, and it was like, you know, three days where I was on a set and I was like, cool. All right.

471
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:03,840
This is the taught me not to do this, this, this, this, and you know, and this like, yeah. I mean,

472
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,080
did you, did you ever get yelled at on your first set experience?

473
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:15,200
No, thank God. But I think like I was saying this on another podcast, this might sound repetitive

474
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:23,040
now, but it is like a true experience. And I do think like what I did learn on my first set is that

475
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,280
the hierarchical structure of a film is really tough when you've got people working for you that

476
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:32,560
don't necessarily want a woman in charge. And that really was evident. And I'd never, ever considered

477
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,320
that before. I was like, you know, for this one, I'm the director for the other one. I'm pretty,

478
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,680
like, it just didn't matter. I was like, I'm just another person in this role, but there's definitely

479
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:49,040
a different attitude. And like, that was really shocking. Um, and that really messed my confidence

480
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,400
because I, not that I was being pushed over, but like, I felt like I was being so disrespected

481
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,520
because I was a woman and I really felt like I had to compromise on a lot of things because I got

482
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,200
too scared to boss people around and tell them what to do because I was like, they're just going

483
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,840
to find any reason to like say something nasty or misogynistic. And I was like, and I just cannot

484
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,720
give them a reason. So that was really hard. So in the second film we did, which was girl,

485
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,760
we had a 70% female crew and all the boys that came on board, we like hammered to make sure they

486
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,960
were not misogynist. And there was going to be no issues with working with majority female set

487
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,040
because I was like, I can never ever experience that again. I was like, that was the most toxic

488
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,160
environment for my mental health. So yeah, that like, thank God I've never had that again. And

489
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,360
now in every set I've usually got like about 50% female on it. And the men that I work with are

490
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:42,000
phenomenal, like just really, really lovely and just, just human beings. Like they just don't look

491
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,560
at you like they're working with a woman and they don't undermine you. And they're very, very

492
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,760
respectful. Which makes a hell of a difference. Hell of a difference. Yeah, I can imagine. I

493
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,960
think, can I just say congratulations on that as well? That's like fantastic. I think it was like,

494
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,960
yeah, that's hard. And I think, you know, it's one of those things that I always try and have

495
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:15,840
as much as possible, 50 to 60% women on my sets. But that I think, I've definitely worked with

496
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,800
people who are very, you know, over time who have been misogynistic. And I haven't realized at the

497
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:27,280
time until I'd been on set and then I realized how bad some people are. And I still work with some

498
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,240
people to this day, which I don't have much of a choice so far, because it's not my call, but I

499
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:39,920
have definitely sort of, it is interesting to see that level of change. And you know, it's something

500
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,280
I think that also is so prevalent to me because it's talked about through my mum, who's worked in

501
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:51,520
the marketing and communications, but has also worked for the ABC as a journalist and as a producer

502
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,800
and just had talked about, you know, equality throughout her entire life. Amazing, amazing

503
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,760
experiences that my mum has had. And I think that, yeah, you know, in relating to that,

504
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:10,400
I think having this, you know, like getting rid of the misogynistic and that the bro, it's, you know,

505
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:18,160
it's us or the girls attitude out and just having everyone as people and working hard together and

506
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,560
creating a safe space is really important because like, even when I'm around people who are just

507
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:33,120
a misogynistic, I get tired very quickly. And I remember like all the time, it just happens

508
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,360
like naturally, like I'll be out with my partner and we'll just see how people talk to her and then

509
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,880
how they talk to me. And I'm just, and I say to her, I say, I hate the fact that I have to

510
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:52,320
constantly stand up to go and talk to a guy because they don't want to talk to you as much

511
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:58,320
because they think, oh, she doesn't know anything. She's an idiot. Because you don't think that would

512
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,920
exist now, but I think it exists in every workplace. I just don't think that's ever going to change.

513
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,720
And I really hope it does, but I'm not feeling very hopeful about it. But on a film set, that

514
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,320
became very prevalent. Like, I mean, you're under time stress, you're working in an obviously

515
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,200
hierarchical system where people report to certain people who report to other people. And it's a

516
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,600
clear structure and you know, you're under stress, you're working long hours. Most people aren't paid.

517
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Like it's really exhausting. And I think it really brings out sometimes the worst in people and

518
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,600
sometimes the best. And it brings out both. And that's kind of the beauty of it. But some people's

519
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,280
worst is unfortunately really harmful to a certain group of people on set. But to your point of

520
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:46,080
how people treat your partner versus how they treat you out. So the kid that we had, his name's

521
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:54,720
Keanu, he's brilliant. He was on Sasha's game. When I first met him, he had super long hair, like

522
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,440
super long hair, very androgynous look, like super cool, very progressive family, like just

523
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,040
phenomenal, like really awesome values. And when we first got the audition, I was like, Keanu for me

524
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,160
is a, it could be either sex. I just didn't even. And when I looked at it, cause I remembered I got

525
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,160
a call from an agent and I couldn't remember which agent it was saying that they're going to put

526
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,520
forward. Cause the story is about a boy who goes through the war as a girl and grows out his hair.

527
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Right. So I remember this one agent approaching me and saying, how about I put a girl forward

528
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,440
to be a boy who becomes a girl and then she'll chop her hair to be a boy. I was like, would she

529
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:35,120
be okay with that? So I was expecting a girl to audition. So when I saw Keanu, I'm like, maybe.

530
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960
And I was like, I don't know. And me and my producers sat there and we were like, is it,

531
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,560
I'm like, I don't know. Like what's this, like, you know, what's, what's their cis gender sort of,

532
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,880
you know, and we couldn't figure it out. And then when I met Keanu, he is just the most phenomenal

533
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:58,160
kid. He's so, so mature, but he said that when he goes out, he, because he's, you know, is quite

534
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,000
often mistaken for a girl. I mean, now we chopped his hair for the film and he was super cooperative

535
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,520
with that and he loves it. He's very open to anything. He's a very cool boy, but yeah, it was

536
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,920
quite amazing. Cause he said that a lot of the time they'd say to the mother, a single mother,

537
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,640
amazing, would say you've got such a beautiful young girl. And he'd notice how he got treated

538
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,040
when he was gone, his voice hasn't cracked yet. But I'm like, isn't that interesting? I was like,

539
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,760
but he doesn't care. He's so mature. He's like, I just hate the misogyny that exists. And I noticed

540
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,680
the way that I get treated differently, but it's funny because I am, you know, it's so fascinating.

541
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,120
And I was like, that's a really cool experiment that you get to experience what it's like for

542
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:43,600
women every single day and the different way they communicate does. Yeah. It's, it's kind of like,

543
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:49,840
it is phenomenal as well. And I think, you know, I just remember even when I had long hair back in

544
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:56,880
the day and I had colored hair, and there was like two Italian ladies living in my apartment

545
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:04,720
and they just get, young deer, they get to calling me young deer and young lady. And I was like,

546
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,920
oh, that's nice. And then they were just like, my favorite, my favorite was the fact that they were

547
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:16,080
just like, always talking about like the, you know, just wanting me to get a haircut and, you

548
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:22,080
know, and decide how I looked. And I was like, this is very interesting. Yeah. Good. You're good.

549
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:28,800
I'm just like feeling in the mic so I'm like louder. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was just a,

550
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,880
it was a surreal experience. I think like looking back at that, especially, you know, like having

551
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,400
now a lot shorter hair and growing it out again, it's one of those things that it doesn't really

552
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:47,600
bother me. But especially now, because I sort of very much identify as a gender fluid person. But

553
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:55,200
I think before, when I was very set in my ways and I was like young, young Marty, I definitely had

554
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:02,800
this very strict, no, I must be a boy and this must be how a boy looks. And it's so funny how we live

555
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:09,600
in this, you know, very progressive society. And I'm like, my cousin's kid has kind of had his

556
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:15,040
non-binary as well. And they're just going through their sort of like life and they're dressing

557
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:20,560
however they want. And like, whether it's in a dress, whether it's in a, you know, pants and

558
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,520
jeans and everything like that, it's just living their best life. And I think like they're 12. So

559
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,960
if a 12 year old can do that and I was 12, and we're absolutely terrified with whatever I was

560
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,560
thinking, that's amazing. Like this is how far we've come. But there's still kind of people out

561
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:43,840
there who go, no, you must be like this, you must be that, you must, you know, as a woman, you must

562
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,120
dress a certain way.

563
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,520
No, that's so changed. Like that's the amazing part about the way the world is progressing,

564
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,880
which gives me hope. But everything is very normalized and people like actually just don't

565
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,240
care. It's do you. And it just really does not matter anymore. Because I think everyone wants

566
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:05,040
to know. Because I think everyone cared way too much. I've noticed even with marketing, and I'm

567
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,320
sure your mom's realized if she's still in marketing or journalism or.

568
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,840
Yeah, she's just retired. So yeah.

569
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,160
Well, I'm sure she probably still has observed that the way that things are marketed have

570
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,800
changed so much because people aren't as insecure. And it's really hard to feed off people's

571
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,320
insecurities because it's a different type of marketing now where people aren't as insecure

572
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,360
and different body shapes are encouraged. So these slim T things just aren't as effective, or

573
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,080
a model put on proactive is just not effective anymore. Because everyone just knows it's crap.

574
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,440
And it's really interesting. So I'm like, the world is becoming a much safer space. But then

575
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,080
I had a chat with someone the other day that argued the opposite because they've got, you

576
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,520
know, social media. And I was like, but when I was growing up, I had social media and we had

577
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,720
anonymous, like question things where people are getting severely bullied. And I was like,

578
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:57,200
and you were had to look a certain way and you had to have a box gap and be, you know, borderline

579
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:04,480
like sick and ill. And I'm like, but now there's not just this white Taylor Swift appearing woman

580
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,160
that everyone aspires to be. You've got different curves and different body shapes, different

581
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,800
ethnicities, different genders. There's so many role models. Like what a time to be a kid.

582
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,640
Yeah. I think, I, I think it's like, it's, it's kind of one of those. And I went to the movie

583
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,800
theater the other night and there was this advertisement on and I was like watching it.

584
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,320
And I was just thinking, it felt like I was watching Heartbreak High in 30 seconds,

585
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,080
cause it was just like every, every identity kind of ever in this space of 30 seconds.

586
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,320
But I think, you know, shows like Sex Education and really kind of open the books for a lot of

587
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,240
people's understanding of differences in people's lives. But also, you know, like Heartbreak High,

588
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:48,560
which was another phenomenal, you know, Australian show that's changing. And I think

589
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:55,600
while, while I do agree with some elements of what that person said, and I don't think like

590
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:01,920
by any means that that's a hundred percent true, but I do think that, um, they're pros and cons,

591
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,320
because I do think that, you know, like, as I say to anyone who's kind of like in the older

592
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:12,240
generation who believes, you know, still in certain ways of life that, you know, they're,

593
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:16,480
they're now in their seventies or eighties or, you know, nineties, they're a lot, there are a lot

594
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,760
of them are close to dying, unfortunately. And, you know, whether you think that's a good thing

595
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,200
or a bad thing, a lot of the values they have will die with them and will not go unless they've

596
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:33,040
integrated that strongly, but you will always, unfortunately find pockets of it. Still, if you

597
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,120
go to the country, if you go to certain parts of the city, you will find those, and especially

598
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:44,400
certain cultures, you will find that belief because it's not, it's not always as widely

599
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:51,120
accepted as I guess we think, because we're so infatuated with our social media while in

600
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:57,840
Australia, I think it's much better than it used to be like 10 years ago. Um, but it's still got

601
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:04,800
a fair worldwide. It's still got a fair way to go for sure. But it was pretty giant step in the

602
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,160
past. Like five years, it's been like a leap. I mean, yeah, absolutely nothing to everything.

603
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,600
I mean, yeah, absolutely. 100%. And I think, I think that's due to just, you know, like

604
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,000
shows really putting a stance on it and really trying to push it to the popular framework of

605
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,120
the medium and especially having big name actors in shows that talk about those issues, because

606
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,840
that then makes the older generation who were like, Oh, I don't understand children to watching

607
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,560
these shows because their favorite actor from when they were young is in it. And they're like, Oh,

608
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,400
you know, um, you know, like Ian McKellen's in this, I better watch it, you know, and it's about

609
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:46,080
this issue. And it's like, you know, people just open their eyes and, um, you know, I think more

610
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:53,040
outside their box of vision, but I do also think that it is our job as young filmmakers to kind of

611
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,760
really also make sure that I guess we really make sure we push the agendas that we want to,

612
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:05,840
especially like political ones, um, and, and freedom of speech forward, but then, you know,

613
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,360
you don't want exactly the freedom of speech that everyone has, which is like the trumps of the

614
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,480
world and the appalling Hansons of the world, really kind of like pushing that, you know,

615
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:20,560
the systemic racism or this, you know, the, the belligerent opinions, but being aware that they

616
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,440
still exist. I think, I think there's a very, it's interesting. There's always going to be this

617
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:32,800
dynamic of where we stand and, and the fine line of what walking along, you know, the stories that

618
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,080
we do. Cause I, I do think that some of the stories where it's like, you watch a film or you watch a

619
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,840
short, which has been made and it's gone into a festival and it sort of beats you over the head

620
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:48,880
with a message tend to be the ones that don't do as well. I think, and, and kind of turn people off.

621
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,520
It's got to be subliminal. Yeah. Everything's got to be subliminal. Yeah, it is. It's subtext. It

622
00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:00,080
just needs to be there, but not there in your face. Yeah. I mean, like as a director though, like,

623
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,360
and as a filmmaker, what's, what's your main big sort of like things and agenda that you want to

624
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:11,760
sort of tell? What stories are the specifics that you want to tell? Vulnerability for sure.

625
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,560
Strength and vulnerability is definitely up there. Like I think all my films kind of share,

626
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:22,160
they're all period pieces. Honestly, I just like, let's get it out there. Um, I just love them, but

627
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,880
so they all share that in common. A lot of them, at least. Um, I love, yeah, I love the hardships,

628
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:36,080
like the real human experience, but this hyper real sort of tone that's digestible, like the best way

629
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:41,840
you can compare it is something like promising young woman, which if you've seen, where it was

630
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,040
heavy and I felt like vomiting at the end of the film and I felt faint, but it was so digestible

631
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,240
while you were getting it because they just dosed it a little bit and then it looked a bit humid.

632
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:55,280
It'd take, you know, swallow the sugar and then some crappy medicine and then take some sugar.

633
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,880
And you just don't even realize how much poison you're swallowing until you get to the end and

634
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,000
you feel sick. But I think it's so digestible and who's just going to watch a depressing

635
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:10,400
three hour, like just it's not, which sounds like blonde to be honest. I haven't watched blonde yet.

636
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:16,000
I haven't watched it. I'm too scared. I'm watching it tonight. Oh my God. Good luck. That's a controversial, yeah, thank you. I'll need it. Um,

637
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:21,600
but yeah, that's just sounds like that to me is scary because it's just depressing.

638
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,760
Whereas something like promising young woman is very depressing, a super important message,

639
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:32,080
but so digestible because it's buried in humor and like, you know, comedy relief. So I think for me,

640
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:38,000
that's sort of how I portray messages of vulnerability and struggle and just the human

641
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,520
experience that yeah, those are the common themes. I mean, that's awesome. And I love that you can,

642
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:50,480
you know, you compare those two films. Um, cause promising young woman is a fantastic phenomenal film

643
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,880
and Carrie Mulligan and Bo Burnham were both phenomenal in that. Um, and it just, oh sorry,

644
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,200
I remember that was Emily, my first date movie, which was an interesting first date movie.

645
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,880
Yeah, gosh, that's a really confronting one. Yeah, I know. Um, but it's one of these films that I feel

646
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,760
like it really, especially like, um, you know, I'm not going to spoil anything, but you know,

647
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,120
go and see it. It's just from start to finish, if you want a really interesting in-depth look

648
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:24,240
at what it's also like as a daily basis to be a woman, that film kind of felt like it hit every

649
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:29,360
sort of nail on the head. Um, but without, as you say, without kind of just feeling like you're

650
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,840
lying, crying on the floor constantly. Have a lighter tone. It was digestible. It was comedic

651
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,560
enough to swallow it. And same as Joker, to be honest, like that feels heavy and you feel sick

652
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,120
at the end as well. But as it comes, it's pretty digestible. There's some funny moments. You've

653
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,960
got the live show, which is kind of funny. You know, there's funny comments going on. It's

654
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,600
digestible, but there's certain movies that just are not like, they're not digestible.

655
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:59,280
No. And that's really hard to sit there. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of also why like, you know,

656
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:07,120
films like blonde, uh, you know, getting slammed by critics. Oh, there's so many reasons that it's

657
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:12,320
getting slammed outside the fact that it's a dark three hour movie. Yeah. It's, um, but it's, it's

658
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:18,960
also just, I've read so many articles on it recently and I just, you know, I think there's this reading

659
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:24,720
all the articles about it and all the controversial scenes that are in it. It just doesn't, there's

660
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:28,960
nothing about it that makes me want to sit through it that I'm reading. Other than curiosity. Yeah.

661
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,760
Other than curiosity, but like I just, from what I've read, and this is me giving my opinion

662
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:40,880
without having seen it, but having read a shit ton of reviews. Um, but it seems like, okay. So

663
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,360
initially I was talking to my friend, Josh, about it, who had watched it. And he said,

664
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,320
just careful. It's really triggering. And I was like, triggering, like it's, yeah, I know kind of,

665
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,320
you know, the sexual assault she went through and I, I like, I know her life, but I'm like,

666
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,440
how triggering are they going to make it? Like it's a movie, right? Like it needs to be digestible.

667
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:07,360
And then like, he goes, yeah, but it's really confronting. Like they've really hammered on it.

668
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,360
And then I was like, no, I'm reading reviews. I'm like, how bad is this? And everyone's saying a

669
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:16,560
disgusting, like I could literally read the reviews. It was atrocious. And then I was like, okay,

670
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,320
I'm going to give the director the benefit of the doubt. He's a New Zealand, Australian director.

671
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,240
I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, Andrew Dominic. And I'm going to say that he

672
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:30,240
really tried to empathize with the female experience and what it is like, but he honed

673
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:35,760
in way too hard on trying to understand it, that he lines up being misogynistic and representing

674
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,640
like way too much pain instead of her artistry. I was like, okay, I'm going to take that angle.

675
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,160
I'm just going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then I see an interview where he called

676
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:51,280
her and the P the women of that era in like the talent sort of field and performers, well-dressed

677
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,760
whores. And I was like, nah, he's just misogynistic. Like I'm like, I'm not even going to give him the

678
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,240
benefit of the doubt. I'm like, this is a director that doesn't respect his subject.

679
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,360
And yes, it's based on a book and half of it's fiction and it blows the lines. And I understand

680
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,920
the creativity behind that, but I'm like, he disregarded her entire talent, her being,

681
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,200
her performance, her entire life and legacy. He's just spat on her grave. And I was like,

682
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,520
I haven't even seen it yet. And I'm furious because I'm like, if this is the way women in 2022 are

683
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,800
represented by middle-aged men who shouldn't be directing a woman's biopic, it's not even a biopic

684
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:31,280
in the first place. But the fact that he's doing this insensitively with misogynistic male gazing,

685
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:37,440
disrespectful visual brutality, like, like in what world is that? Okay. So I'm dreading to see it

686
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,400
because of how visually brutal it's supposed to be. But I'm like, she's crying for the whole three

687
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:48,400
hours of, I'm like, I hope he protected her mental health, at least the actress. Like, yeah. I'm like,

688
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:54,880
Anita Amis might be scarred for life because she had a man that cannot even empathize with the feeling

689
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,080
of what it is to have your, you know, your womanhood stripped from you and have you like moved around

690
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,600
and pulled like an object. I'm like, you can't empathize with that, let alone have an actress

691
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,440
portray it incorrectly, like, you know, drowning in pain. And I'm like, I hope he supported her

692
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,840
enough through that process. Cause yeah, I don't know that film, like just from what I've heard

693
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:21,680
makes me furious. I'm very interested to watch it. Yeah. I think, I think, yeah, I didn't realize

694
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,000
you said that in an interview. I've just been very like, I've read the reviews, but I haven't

695
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,120
seen that interview. And that sort of, that hits the nail on the head. Cause I did, I know the JFK

696
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:37,440
scene particularly. Yeah, that had, that is fiction, but I'm like, also, you know, if you look at

697
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:43,920
history, JFK had his illicit affairs and everything, um, apparently. Yeah, totally. But I'm like, you

698
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,800
can't spit on how many dead graves are you going to spit on? Yeah, I know. Like you've got two there,

699
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:54,560
both, one, you know, both of them are, you know, dead. So like why are you making this situation

700
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,640
that's entirely based on fiction? If it's based on a book, which makes it harder, cause it's like,

701
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,800
is it his fault or is it the author's? And it's like, but he chose to adapt the book. I mean,

702
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:08,640
the book was already horrid. Yeah. The book was already like, it was, uh, you know,

703
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,960
received very mixed reviews since it got released. And then it's kind of like, why would you adapt

704
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:20,480
that? And I remember watching this reviewer, this, um, Grace Rudolph, who does movie reviews in the

705
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:26,560
U S and I remember her talking about it and her, she had so many opinions about the film should not

706
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:32,080
be made because the book was entirely fictional. And she was like, if anyone believes this story,

707
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:37,600
that's going to ruin Marilyn Monroe's experiences in life. And you know, this isn't true. None of

708
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:44,720
this book is based in any part of reality. And while yes, um, she had a horrible life and she

709
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:49,280
was, um, massively assaulted and everything, but you know, tell it from a truthful angle and tell

710
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:55,840
it about the real Marilyn Monroe, not about this fictionalized version of her, which, you know,

711
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,640
who are you telling this story for? Well, I think what could have worked, I still would have been

712
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,360
pissed off about it just because of who directed it. And he's a misogynist, but if he wanted it

713
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,920
to work, he could either have some total random blonde that resembles Marilyn Monroe, but is not

714
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:16,160
Marilyn Monroe and done it just so he doesn't spit on her grave. Or he could have it from the author

715
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,680
writing it on their perception of who Marilyn Monroe was from a fictional point of view.

716
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:27,280
And they have her narrated that or he, who, I don't know, whoever wrote the book, that would

717
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,880
have been okay. Cause I would have been like, okay, you've made it obvious that it's fiction

718
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,680
and you've really hammered the point that it's from a perspective of perception of who Marilyn

719
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,440
Monroe was, but it is fiction. And that would have hammered it in for everyone. And everyone would

720
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,800
have been okay with the delivery of it. But I'm like, the fact that it's presented as a biopic

721
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,520
when it's not a biopic, it's fiction and it's disrespectful, misogynistic and brutal. That's

722
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,400
when I'm like, you haven't blatantly made it obvious enough that it's fiction, you know?

723
00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:02,640
Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's, that's, that's where I sort of dislike it as well. Cause it is

724
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:07,440
really advertised as a very much a biopic. The lens is wrong. It's the stories, whatever. I

725
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,800
disagree with it. But if you're going to tell that story, just different lens. Yeah. Oh, a hundred

726
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:16,640
percent. I mean, like, you know, staying on track with a misogynistic angle as well, because I do,

727
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:22,720
I do think that there's a lot of films out there that do inaccurately represent women as well. And,

728
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:29,600
and there are a lot more female directors obviously come into the fold. Like I think what,

729
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:34,720
especially in Disney, which is now predominantly trying maybe more, it's Marvel division,

730
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:40,160
trying to push forward a lot of female angles. Cause there's a lot more shows like She-Hulk was

731
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:46,400
written entirely by women and in directed entirely by women. Jessica Jones, when it was on season two

732
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,520
was entirely directed by women. It was not directed by men. I didn't think any of the seasons

733
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,520
actually were ever had a male director because that was the whole point of it was to deal with

734
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,320
sexual assault, rape victims and you know, everything. So it was really trying to just

735
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:07,120
hone in on that angle of, of what it's like to be a woman kind of, you know, living on their own and

736
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,000
you know, recovering from trauma. And I think, you know, even though you put it through a superhero

737
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,200
lens and everything, I think it is smart because it does talk through a lighter tone, especially

738
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:23,280
with She-Hulk through the lens of comedy, as well as kind of just knowing what it's like to be a

739
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:30,640
female lawyer and be treated like, like a little bit differently by your appearance and, and you

740
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,360
know, whether you're a giant green monster or you're like a human being. And I think, you know,

741
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:40,480
there's definitely other films that I've like, I remember I saw a film not long ago with called

742
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:47,760
misbehavior, which was about the beauty pageants. And, you know, the rights between those I've seen,

743
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,320
you know, like, you know, I remember years ago, I made a complaint about the fact that

744
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:58,800
women aren't paid equally. And all my friends who are men were like, no, that's not true. They're

745
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,000
all paid equally still to this day. It's a huge debate. I don't really get involved because I'm

746
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,760
like, look, I don't feel like I'm informed enough on that subject to know if maternity balances it

747
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,560
out or if this and that. Like, I feel like I can't get involved in that argument, but it is fascinating

748
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,760
to hear how many men are against it without any knowledge. Like they don't do what I do and say,

749
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:24,080
I don't know enough about it to get involved. They just take the side of it's equal and it

750
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:29,040
lands up being fair. I'm like, on what basis? Do research first? Like I haven't done enough

751
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:33,600
research to even bother others. I won't. No, and that's fair. And I mean, like, I only know

752
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,640
the research because of mum. So it's like a saving grace that, you know, but it's massive. And I

753
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,720
remember I had this conversation with one of my coworkers who I used to work with and I told her

754
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:47,920
what I was being paid and she had worked there longer and she was being under paid less than me.

755
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:54,400
Wow. That's not good. I was significantly younger like then her, she was in her thirties and I was

756
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,280
in my early twenties and I was like, how am I paid less than you? It made no sense to me,

757
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,920
but it was basically because, you know, she was a woman and our manager at the time was a sexist

758
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,720
misogynist. So it was kind of one of those things that we, you know, was pointed out at,

759
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:12,240
but it's still, I don't think has fixed it because, you know, there's certain parts of

760
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:19,760
our industry that are still like have certain people in power, but it is getting better.

761
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,640
But in saying that, like when you, you know, for you though, when you go just in general to work

762
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:31,680
or after scenarios and stuff, and especially like, you know, through, do you decide constantly what

763
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:37,760
you're aware based on what kind of reactions you'll get unsolicited reactions?

764
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,080
No, like I'm actually very unapologetically myself.

765
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,040
Oh, thank Christ.

766
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:48,560
Yeah. And like, I don't know, I feel like judgment doesn't really affect me as it used to.

767
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:53,520
I feel like I used to really be affected by it when I was younger. And I feel like I went through

768
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:58,400
this whole development of kind of growing up and growing out of it and being like, who actually

769
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,120
cares? Like, you know, it's going to bother them and that's their opinion. And not everyone has to

770
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,240
like me and like my outfit and like my decisions. And that's absolutely their journey and none of

771
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:13,360
their business. And if they can do whatever they want and, you know, I don't care. Like, I just

772
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,400
think everyone's on their own journey. And at the end of the day, like, it's just hate, you know,

773
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,360
bruise hate. It's just really not, the judgment just isn't worth it. And if it doesn't affect you,

774
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:29,120
like who actually cares? So no, it doesn't affect me at all. I wear comfy stuff when I go to set.

775
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:34,640
I like fashion. So I try to wear comfortable stuff on set that I feel like I look good in

776
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,920
and it's practical and I don't really care.

777
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:44,480
Can I just say I love that. I fucking love that. Because I mean, like, you know, we live in such a,

778
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,480
I think, you know, people dressing a certain way or sort of constantly worrying about what they

779
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:56,480
they wear versus like the reactions they get. And, you know, it doesn't happen to everyone,

780
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,560
obviously, but it can happen a lot.

781
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,360
That's a tough one, though, because I feel like that would be a really good question for someone

782
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,080
that dressed really feminine though. Because I feel like the like I'm on the opposite thing.

783
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,000
Like I don't show a lot of like I'm constantly in pants and female suits and

784
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,720
Can I just say though, that's fucking awesome.

785
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:18,080
Thank you. But I feel like it was actually interesting though,

786
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,520
sidetracking. But I was actually out with my partner, Brad, who's amazing and supportive.

787
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,240
Giving him a shout out because I did on the last one.

788
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,080
You're like my partner, Brad, please tell him that you exist.

789
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:38,320
But like he is very accepting of the way I dress. And minus some of my over the top extra stuff

790
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,400
where he's like, is that really necessary? I'm like, it absolutely is. The more attention,

791
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,320
the better. But no, so

792
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,520
Especially the attention from him.

793
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:50,800
He loves the drama. He's even said yesterday, I was like, am I being dramatic? He's like,

794
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,400
but I'm dating you for the drama. I'm like, good. That's why we're here.

795
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,760
But I was like, I was at his place and I was quite ill and I couldn't stick to work and whatever.

796
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,520
So he just gave me his clothes because I didn't bring appropriate clothes to go to the shops.

797
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,760
So he gave me like his board shorts. He's like very surfy. So he's got like whatever.

798
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,800
And he gave me like an oversized jumper. And I just wore like my high socks with his slides.

799
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,720
And I put on his beanie and my hair looked like fowl. So I just wrapped it inside my beanie.

800
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:22,080
So I did look like a dude to be 100% honest. And we went to the shops and I was like,

801
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,200
Brad take notice of the looks and everyone stared for longer than they would. Or they did a double

802
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:33,680
take. I'm like, how fascinating. Like my appearance really affected people's like perception of what

803
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,080
they knew to be a woman or a man that they had to do a double take. And I'm like, I really just

804
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:43,280
don't care. I'm like, I'm very comfortable. I feel good that my hair is not visible. I'm like,

805
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,960
I just want to go to the shops and buy some burrata. I don't want to be like,

806
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,520
but it was interesting. I was like, take a look at this. Because I'm like, I don't, they're insane

807
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,760
that he's got long blonde hair and he's a very gorgeous looking person. And I feel like sometimes

808
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:00,400
he does get a double look as well. Because you know, when he's well shaved, you know,

809
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,680
he can look like a really elegant woman. So I think he also gets a double take sometimes. So

810
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:10,560
it's not something that's new to him, but I think it was interesting for like us both to observe

811
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,360
the double looks together because he had just shaved. I'm like, oh, there we go.

812
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:22,400
Oh my God. It's always like, isn't that always the way? We have that happen around here as well.

813
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:28,240
Like, cause I wear a lot of like, you know, I have a lot of jumpers and they're originally all designed

814
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,080
for women. This is why I hate like stereotypes, but they're so comfy and they're very bright.

815
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,880
I love bright clothing. Yeah. I love that you're so bright. It's so happy. I love it. It's so good.

816
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:45,760
But I remember I was, my amazing, Emily's amazing mother, Julie gave me this sort of cardigan

817
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,480
and I keep wearing it. And I love it. It's so great in winter, but I remember this one guy down

818
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,840
the street was just like, nice, nice fancy dress. And I was like, what this really comfy cardigan

819
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:02,320
that I'm wearing that just fits so well around my frame. Sure. This is fancy dress. I was like,

820
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:08,560
this is just comfort, but it's, it is interesting because you know, like we, we, we do talk about

821
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:14,000
what we wear. And you know, like I remember I went to a Mardi Gras once and had completely shaved

822
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,960
my legs. And I was like, I understand now why some women shave their legs and some men shave

823
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,520
their legs. It's so nice. When it grows back, it hurts. Oh yeah. When it grows back, so it's a

824
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:30,160
bitch. But it's just like one of those nice, you smooth leg feeling. But it's, you know,

825
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:35,520
I feel like the winds people have never tried these things that, or like, you know, dressed a

826
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:41,040
certain way or they just, they haven't ever attempted. They care more. They, they get worried

827
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:46,960
more and then they get more judgmental. Like I have a really amazing dad. An amazing father has

828
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,880
always been very supportive growing up. Even, even though he, like he didn't come from a very

829
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:56,160
supportive family, he's been amazingly supportive to me. And I think one of the things was when I

830
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:02,400
was about like 16, 17, they bought, no actually when I was 18, they bought me my first jacket,

831
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,040
like, like blazer thing. And I remember I specifically went to Myers and it had like

832
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:13,040
velvet on the top collar. I was like, I need this one. And over time, like I then just upgraded to

833
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:18,080
more velvet jackets. And I remember him saying, he was like, you look, you remind me of David Bowie.

834
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:24,400
Like you just remind me of someone who doesn't give a shit about what people think and is just

835
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:31,040
so androgynous and just living life. And I was like, my father, who is just particularly never

836
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,640
fit into any of the molds. Um, it was really quite flattering. So I do think that he is just like

837
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,640
one of those people who just goes and, you know, is really proud of what his kids have become.

838
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:47,680
Um, but, um, you know, there, there is the sense of, I think, you know, that some parents, it does

839
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:52,560
go over the heads of, especially when I hear some friends, you know, especially some of my, um,

840
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,800
you know, uh, trans friends or, um, non-binary friends that their parents do struggle with the

841
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:04,640
concept, you know, like, um, or kids that do change their names. That's another controversial

842
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,800
like topic where you're like, I want to change my name and their parents are like, what, do you

843
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:14,480
hate your name? Do you, do you know? And it's so interesting that then, um, you know, like we live

844
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,880
in this society, a social, like everyone has to do a double take. And I don't think that anymore.

845
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,960
I don't, I don't stare at people anymore. I stare at people from a creative point of view.

846
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,120
Yeah, same. I just observe. I'm like, just there might be inspiration somewhere.

847
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,560
I know. But I think that comes from the acting side of our brain as well. Like it comes from

848
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:34,800
the creative, like, how do I portray this? And then it goes to directing side. Like we're massive,

849
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:42,080
massive nerds that we are. Um, like, do you, do you still now to this day, though, sit in a park

850
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:47,440
and sort of write notes on people? No, but I do people watch, like I find they do really,

851
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:52,240
some people do really interesting things and they've got really interesting quirks and habits and

852
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:58,000
ways of being or a way they walk or like a phrase they say. I'm like, I'm just going to remember

853
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,680
that. I'm like, cause this could come in. This could come. Um, what's the weirdest thing you've

854
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:09,280
made note of? Oh my God. Oh, okay. So I was at, was that a wedding? It was actually my sister's

855
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:16,960
wedding. And there was a glass and someone near me was really drunk and they're like, the glass was

856
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:22,160
kind of like semi filled with water and they like got really close to the glass with like, their

857
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,920
eyes were literally sitting on top of this glass and they were pouring more water into the glass

858
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,160
and just like looking at the way that the light was hitting the glass as the water was going in.

859
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,680
And there was a speech going on and they were just absolutely out of it. I was like, what an

860
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:40,800
interesting little thing that fascinated them. But from a visual point of view, it looked quite

861
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,280
cool and quirky watching them do it. And I was like, not bad. I don't know. There's something in that.

862
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:51,920
Oh my God. That's not, it's like not like crazy, but I just remember observing it. I'm like,

863
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:58,560
I don't know why I'm so attracted to this person's attraction to this glass. I was like,

864
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,320
but the way they were like staring at it, I was like, they're invested. Like I'm invested.

865
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,480
This is storytelling 101. Just keep me intrigued.

866
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,480
Yeah. Right. It was so fascinating.

867
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,160
Did you turn that into a character?

868
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:14,960
No, I haven't yet, but I will when I have a drunk character, I'll know what to do.

869
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:20,160
Yeah. Cause when you write stories and I'm, do you write most of the things you direct?

870
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:20,720
Yeah.

871
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,760
So is that kind of surreal? Are you looking forward to directing something you didn't write?

872
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:34,720
Um, no, it's not a no. It's not an outright no. Um, I just think I have a very particular style

873
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:41,280
in terms of the visual elements. And I do think it has, it does have a more hyper real vibe to it.

874
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,520
And I'm finding a lot of the films going through the, I was actually talking about this on the

875
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:51,680
way here to someone, how a lot of the films going through the festival circuit are very slow and

876
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:57,440
they're 15 minutes slow, wides of someone walking and there's three pieces of dialogue and it's just

877
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:04,160
very like, I don't know, plain. And it just is, it's got a very like, I don't know. And there's

878
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,240
absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's just something I've noticed. I'm like, I, I'm not that

879
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:13,360
style. I couldn't be, if I wanted to try. So the piece that I would direct for somebody else,

880
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:17,600
they'd have to be okay with the visual style that I have. And if they're not, then that's just really

881
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:25,760
not going to work. So that's hard. Hyper realism. You better love it. Just like colorful, hyper real,

882
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:31,120
like period piece, the frame that I give it, like it's just not, it's not for everyone. But um,

883
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,480
yeah, I think a lot of people, when they give their piece off, they want to direct it the way

884
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:40,000
that they would have done it. Yeah. And I, like, I couldn't do that to be honest. I literally like,

885
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,600
I'm like you as well. I'm very specific about certain like, and, and it's interesting because

886
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:52,080
I have a lot of different, you know, theatrical choices, especially with scripts. Um, and I've

887
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,560
definitely read scripts, which are being written by, and not mostly great writers, but I've just

888
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:01,600
clashed with visual choices with them. And then just like that, you know, don't want to don't want

889
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,480
that visual choice. And like, fair enough, like that's not for you. Cause you know, I will always

890
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,480
think about different ways that you can shoot something and, you know, think about like the

891
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,840
processing and sound, sound, but it is interesting because of like, I think, cause it's the editing

892
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,640
background of me. It's like, if I don't have a film in my head from start to finish knowing how

893
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:27,440
it's going to play out, then you know, like it's kind of weird. Cause I've, I've, I've edited a lot

894
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:32,880
of films and I always notice when people skip or miss something. And I think, you know, especially

895
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:37,520
like, and you probably get this, you know, when, when you do your first film or you do your first

896
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:42,080
over, like it feels like a training practice round. You're like, Oh, everything sucks. I mean,

897
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,160
everything is always just a practice round. Right. Like it's the same as like musicians where they

898
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,920
look back on the album they did two years ago and they cringe. Like it will always be that way. Oh

899
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:55,600
God. Yeah. But I, do you ever like what's your first film and you're like about 50, 50 things.

900
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:59,440
You're like, I could have done that better. 100%. And it's starting and it was where you were at

901
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,360
at the time and that's fine. And it's always interesting. Cause there's a two year, like

902
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:09,920
between filming and post and release, it's almost a year or two years. It's so weird. And people,

903
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:15,040
I think think that there's such a high turnaround, but post production. Oh my God. I could rant

904
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:20,400
about this forever because I have had so many people be like, how long is post for such a game?

905
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,240
Like you finished shooting that. Can you show it to us? I'm like, what thousands of hours of footage

906
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,960
or you think it's just editing itself. I'm like, Oh my God. Like, which is crazy because so many

907
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:33,440
people don't understand. And yesterday I was sitting with my stepbrother, like my stepmom's birthday

908
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:38,000
and he goes, Oh, you've just done Sasha's game. Like, so what now two, three months and it's done.

909
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:45,360
I'm like six, seven months. It'll be done. Maybe like if like visual edits done by then. Yeah.

910
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:50,480
It's crazy though. Cause people like, but I also think it's because the people we're getting aren't

911
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:55,920
necessarily paid and they have other jobs and other projects. So it's, they're not editing full time.

912
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:00,320
Yeah. So I think that's definitely an element of, you know, considering how long something will take

913
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:05,680
to actually wrap up, which is the worst part. Cause by the time you've edited it, you hate it

914
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:10,000
because you've made so many choices you would never have made now, you know, because there's so much

915
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:15,200
time after you've shot it. I think that I think the longest I've ever had a film not completed was

916
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:20,960
about like other than one film that it just like, I was too young to really actually complete. And

917
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:26,000
it is out in the public domain. It's called not enough time. It's got two scenes missing. If you

918
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:31,040
want to go on YouTube, not enough time with my first and last name is on YouTube. It was shot

919
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:36,640
in a handicap with a microphone, literally duct taped to the side. Cause I was like straight out

920
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:42,720
of high school. So I didn't know how to film, but I think what was interesting is like it had a

921
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:47,040
structure. But there's so many things I would have done differently now. And obviously I had a proper

922
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:52,320
crew, but it was also one of those things that I look back and go, and I showed it to one of my

923
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,080
friends and he was like, the editing is really good though. That's the thing. He was like the flow

924
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:01,760
and the edit you got it like from A to B, like you, you, you get that. And he was like, the

925
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:06,320
direction isn't too shoddy either. So I was like very happy theoretically at the time, cause that's

926
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:11,440
like 11 years ago now when I made that. And then, you know, so on and so forth, but I've been on

927
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:16,800
some sets, you know, especially like I'm editing some films at the moment for other people.

928
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:22,880
And that in between like my full-time job and you know, other projects and stuff and a podcast,

929
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,440
it's like, I do get messages occasionally and going, Oh, how's the edit going? I'm like, I've

930
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:32,880
told you, I've had no time this month. Like, and they're like, Oh, well when's the next availability?

931
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:37,680
And I'm like, this is why I'm sharing the workload with someone else. Like, and they're moving house.

932
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:41,520
So I have a friend who I do a lot of projects with and he's moving house at the moment. So

933
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,360
he is going to take over some of the editing duties so we can cut it in half.

934
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,440
But you know, that's the only way that we can sometimes do it because we're, you know, like

935
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,360
a busy and especially because there's a project that I'm not going to pay for. So it is going to

936
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:59,760
take, I have to prioritize things, you know, unfortunately that I'm stuck to actually contract

937
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:05,840
based to stick to. And yeah, it's also kind of interesting because, you know, whether you

938
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,600
work in freelancers, stuff like that, I always get people's commitment and crazy schedules.

939
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:14,000
Cause it's like, you know, people will just need to chop and change constantly. And

940
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,560
it's, it's a nice industry, but I think, you know, when you don't have as much experience,

941
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:23,840
especially with post, that's where it can kind of like, cause you know, the people we sort of,

942
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:28,960
you know, because we have such a good understanding of post and not a lot of people do, especially

943
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,000
when they're just performers, they think that, Oh, I can just get the rough edit and that will be

944
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,480
good for my like, yeah, it's hard. Then the whole show real thing. Like I'm very much about though,

945
01:08:38,480 --> 01:08:45,040
if the editor has time, I like, I like to give the act is something like this time round. I was

946
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:50,880
super like my cinematographer is a gun. Like I could rave about him forever, but he, he just,

947
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:55,200
he works harder than anyone I know. And he's just curious. He's just a curious person. So he just

948
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,280
did an entire rough cut. That's not his job. He is not the editor. He did an entire rough cut and

949
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,920
he just shot it through to me. And I was like, you know, it's like not bad. I'm like, it's rough as

950
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:08,560
hell. And he knew as rough as hell, no glitches and whatever. But I was like, you know what, it's

951
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:13,200
something I can look at and I can actually now give the actors something for their show real and

952
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,880
give them options that they've got something temporarily. And it was great because I could

953
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,800
send it to the composer. I mean, it was 10 minutes shorter, the cut that he did, because he didn't

954
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:25,520
leave moments for suspense or anything, because he was more looking for do the shots line up from

955
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:30,480
cinematography perspective. But I was like, that's actually great. Now I can give it to the composer

956
01:09:30,480 --> 01:09:36,080
and he can start on the soundboard in the meantime, that the actual editor is doing the precise

957
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:40,960
editing, which is obviously taking longer. But yeah, it says, I mean, that's lucky. That's really

958
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,000
rare that you have someone do that for you.

959
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:50,160
I understand. And I think like, I think when I direct a lot of my own things, and I was saying

960
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:56,080
this to one of my friends, because my background is editing, it saves a lot of time. But especially

961
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:02,240
like about to work on some radio stuff next year. And he was just like, oh, we need someone really

962
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:08,640
skilled. And I was like, this is me. I know how to edit a video. So and if I need help, I know about

963
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:13,840
50 people willing to kind of give pointers, because it's really easy. And I think he was just

964
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,000
thinking like, oh, you'll need to pay a professor who's like 50 years experience. I'm like, no,

965
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:23,520
you don't. You need to know the ins and outs of what's workable and make it work. Because you

966
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,320
know, you're limited to budget and constraints and you know, it might be location and everything. So

967
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,000
you make the best of what you do. But I think, you know, it is one of those experiences that,

968
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:41,440
you know, I've, I've definitely had, you know, DAPs as well edit, edit sequences. I always get

969
01:10:41,440 --> 01:10:45,680
like, I always do like it when directors have a go there, you know, just what shot they, what

970
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:51,840
shots they like, and they just go, oh, I love these ones. But especially like I've seen, you

971
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:59,440
know, some edits, which are fantastic. And then other edits that I think, you know, you know,

972
01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:04,560
aren't crash hot. And you I think also stylistically, I do make different choices.

973
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:09,360
And I remember my first big project, which was straight out of TAFE, which was editing with one

974
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:17,920
of my TAFE students. And we did this film. And I remember he was living in Brazil at the time. And

975
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:23,760
he was like passing files through to me. And I got really sick with like some sort of like three

976
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:29,600
months pneumonia or something like that was awful. But I remember just getting to the point where I

977
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,200
was looking at the edits and I was like, are you editing this film or am I like, because he would

978
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:38,240
send me over like sequences that he had cut together just to be like, this is how I want it

979
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:43,520
edited. And I was like, okay, so am I copying and pasting and like, yeah, like, that's I think when

980
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:47,920
the point, because I love sitting down with directors and them writing notes and going, this

981
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,240
is a cut or you sit with the person and you edit together. That's a great experience. But yeah, a

982
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:56,560
lot of the time, you know, some people don't do that. And some people aren't great at communicating.

983
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:01,040
Like I've definitely worked with a lot of directors who have, it's their first time and they have no

984
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:06,960
idea actually what they want. And then they go, oh, you know, that's, that's good. And then a lot of

985
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:11,680
them don't even get shined. I was telling somebody like a few weeks back that I like, I think about

986
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,000
like, you know, out of the 12 projects I've edited, only about three of them are online.

987
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:17,600
Out of things that I did.

988
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:18,960
But are they going to festivals?

989
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:23,200
No, none of them. Because they just throw them in the bin. The directors just go, oh, that was an

990
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:27,920
experience and never do anything with them. And it's just really frustrating because it's like,

991
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:32,800
you know, and that's why I think I personally had disdain on like a lot of directors at the time

992
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:38,240
when I was still like, doing films was they were just, they didn't do anything with the product.

993
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:44,000
They didn't really push for it to go forward. And I think, you know, that takes drive.

994
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:50,640
That takes real, you know, but I guess when you're, you know, when you're an actor director and

995
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,240
you're in your own projects, that might be a personal thing to, you don't think it's good enough.

996
01:12:54,240 --> 01:13:00,720
Like how do you, you know, like, also because you're dealing with so many different personalities,

997
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:05,280
how do you make sure that everyone's sort of like happy with the product as well as yourself?

998
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:09,600
Like, do you worry about what other people think once post and everything is finalized and it's

999
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,160
all done? And do you kind of just hope that everyone loves it?

1000
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,040
Look, everyone's got different tastes. Like you actually cannot have everyone love it.

1001
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,240
Like no one will like, even films that have like one Flickrfest, I watched and I was like, really?

1002
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,360
Like, you know, you're never going to have everyone objectively love it.

1003
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,720
Like it's different styles and I can acknowledge my style is not for everyone.

1004
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:34,480
So no, I don't really worry. Like obviously I'd like them to like it, but like, I can't ask for

1005
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:38,240
them to like it. Like if they don't, that's totally their opinion. It's sad, but it's,

1006
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:46,160
you know, you get harder. But I do send it to most of the heads of departments, like the rough cut

1007
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:50,160
for their feedback. Not that every single thing they say will be taken into account, but it's

1008
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:55,760
interesting. So like girl, we've been editing, the editor lives in Italy. And I'm like,

1009
01:13:55,760 --> 01:14:02,800
girl, we've been editing, the editor lives in Italy. Yeah. She's amazing. I actually got a rough

1010
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:07,440
note. I got the second fine cut today. So I just like went through it, but on the fine,

1011
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:12,640
like first fine cut, we sent it to, she sent it to a few of her friends and I sent it to my

1012
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:18,400
cinematographer. I sent it to my soundie. I sent it to the production designer and a few trusted

1013
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:23,280
friends from an audience perspective and then a film perspective. So that like, you know, Gordie

1014
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:29,760
who is in sound could tell me, you know, feedback story wise and like visually, but he'd probably

1015
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,840
mostly focus on the sound. And then I go to Chris who tells me that there's actually, because we've

1016
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:38,800
started down, we dropped a frame. And then that's really valuable because I mean, at the end of the

1017
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:43,920
day, a lot of the heads of departments are being paid, but it's still their work on the line. They

1018
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,840
want to be proud of it. And if it's dropping a frame that reflects poorly on Chris, who's a damn

1019
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:53,920
talented cinematographer. So, you know, I think it is important that the heads of departments at least

1020
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,320
like are happy with what they put forward, but they don't need to like the product, but they need

1021
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:02,160
to be proud of their contribution to the product because it's part of their showroom and their

1022
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:07,360
portfolio. So yeah, I think films have different tastes and everyone's got different tastes and

1023
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:13,120
it's never going to be everyone's taste. No film is ever. But as long as they're proud of their

1024
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:18,480
contribution, it's something they can show because they weren't getting paid a ridiculous salary.

1025
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:23,920
You know, it's important that they're like, you know what, my work in that looks really good. And

1026
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:28,240
there was an element of that that happened on Sasha's game where we had a schedule issue because

1027
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:32,560
some extra didn't rock up and he was a featured extra. So we had to get one of the crew and we

1028
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,800
had to reorganize the schedule. And because of that, we couldn't have the one actress's hair the

1029
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:41,840
way I really wanted it done. And Clara, who was our hair and makeup artist, obviously wants to be

1030
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:46,880
proud of her work. So there was a whole conflict of hurry up, we need to get it done. But also guys

1031
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:51,600
respect Clara's work. It's her portfolio on the line too. And she's doing this because her name's

1032
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:57,200
attached. So there was this weird compromise of we need to hurry up. But you know, we also want her

1033
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:02,480
to be proud of her work because she is doing this and it's her name attached. So I think there is a

1034
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:07,520
really tough line of, you know, every department thinks their department is the most important.

1035
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,080
That's always the case. But you need to find a compromise of okay, Cameron, you only have this

1036
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:16,320
amount of time. And production time, you only have this amount of time. And I understand you want it

1037
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:24,160
to be good, but like we cannot offer you more. Yeah, 100%. It's tough. I love that as well,

1038
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:31,920
because it's such a finite, you know, decision as well. And I do agree with you as well, because

1039
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:37,200
it's one of those things that I want everyone to be proud of, you know, the product that goes out

1040
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:44,880
there and you know, goes out into the ether. And there are going to be some people who aren't proud

1041
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:50,640
of it in the end, like five, 10 years down the track, or they might be like, it was okay. You

1042
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:56,080
know, obviously you can't control that what people rethink later. But you know, it is very true

1043
01:16:56,080 --> 01:17:01,040
because I do agree that even if you're not being paid or you know, especially if you're like,

1044
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:07,360
you know, cinematographer, editor, sound editor, sound operator or sound editor, it's very important

1045
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:12,400
that you will love the project, you know, going forward, especially with color grade as well.

1046
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:19,280
Like, I always feel like, you know, I want an amazing DLP that I've worked with before Emma Payne.

1047
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:25,760
I remember I sent her the color grade when I was color grading a short we did. And she was the one

1048
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:31,520
who recommended me the lot that she used a lot of the time. And it's just, she was just really

1049
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:36,240
happy with it. And she, she gave such good feedback on on stuff. And I was like, this is really

1050
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:41,520
appreciated. Because like, as an editor, it's just really useful information to make sure I'm doing

1051
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,920
something right and that you're happy with that at the end of the day, I don't have to stress too

1052
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:52,160
much about. Because you know, I always think like that, how, you know, how would I feel if I watched

1053
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:56,240
someone else, you know, like something I did, and then it looked terrible on screen.

1054
01:17:56,240 --> 01:18:00,720
Oh, it's so hard though, because that post production stuff's difficult because production

1055
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:06,000
designs in camera, like every post thing's in camera, right? So, you know, it's there, it's done.

1056
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,240
If you don't like it, you say it there and then but post production is hard because you're literally

1057
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:14,240
taking the cinematographer's shot, and you're changing it, but that's going to reflect on the

1058
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:18,640
cinematographer because, you know, I mean, often people that aren't in film don't even know there's

1059
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:22,720
such thing as a color grader. So it will reflect on the cinematographer, you know, and that is a

1060
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:27,680
really tough, you know, balance of what do you want, what do they want, and is it ruining the shot and

1061
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:34,880
compromising their vision as well. It's a tough one. It's tough. Yeah, I mean, like, you seem to do

1062
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:41,280
really well though, with dealing with all the personalities, because you know, you're able to,

1063
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:46,400
it sounds like you, you have a really good solid team as well. Yeah. Has that, has, have they worked

1064
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:52,400
with you throughout all your films at this point? Not all, but most. So Gordy, who's an incredible

1065
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:58,320
sound recordist and sound designer, he's now worked on me with for three of them. Same as Chris,

1066
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:02,400
when I introduced them, there's actually a really funny story of like, because they're both just so

1067
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,960
damn talented, and they're both so stubborn. And they just hit heads. And it was funny, but now they

1068
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:11,920
get on really well, because we work together frequently. Tessa has been on all of my projects,

1069
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:17,120
she's an amazing production designer. So I do try to keep the way I look at it is kind of like,

1070
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,760
it's a weird way to go, but you go shopping, right? And you kind of like, you know, on the one film,

1071
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,520
you go shopping, and you try a bunch of things. And then the next time you go shopping, you keep,

1072
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:29,920
you, you keep the things that you enjoyed, and you want to have again. Yeah. And then you put new

1073
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:33,360
things in the basket. And then if selling from there is really good, the next time you go shopping,

1074
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:38,400
and you keep more things in your basket. I see that with films, or I'm like, I want to rotate,

1075
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,880
obviously, the kind of crew I work with to see who's out there, what's out there, who do I work

1076
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:47,920
best with. But like, you know, on films, I'll work with Tessa. And I'm like, I'm going to keep Tessa.

1077
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,520
I love her, I'm going to keep her in all of my films. And then I worked with Chris and Gordie,

1078
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:57,280
I'm like, they're staying on all of my films. And then, you know, I met Siobhan on, who was an

1079
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:01,200
incredible costume designer on Sasha's Game. I'm like, I'm working with, you know, it's kind of

1080
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:07,120
like, eventually, you have a cart of just everybody that you loved working with. And you would work

1081
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,880
with again, and then eventually, you've got a dream crew. And it's everybody that you just had

1082
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:15,840
the best experience with. But you know, everyone has different chemistries on set, you know,

1083
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:20,880
sometimes it doesn't knock down to just talent. It's also about company. Yes. And chemistry

1084
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:26,480
personalities. And I found that everyone that I now work with frequently, I've got a damn talented,

1085
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:30,720
but I've got a really good working chemistry with them. Yeah. So that's important too.

1086
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:36,720
Yeah, that's that 101. Yeah. It's like the hardest thing to kind of crack. Because you,

1087
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:41,360
you know, it's good. It's interesting that you say butting heads as well. Like, you know, I,

1088
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:45,040
I feel like when you have a good working chemistry, and you both kind of know what page

1089
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:49,040
everyone's on, it's very easy to kind of like, gel that together and make it,

1090
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:54,000
make that cog to suddenly start moving very quickly and efficiently, even though,

1091
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,080
you know, like post and stuff can take like nine months.

1092
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:02,960
No, it's crazy. But yeah, I don't know. I think when you've got a really talented crew, and you,

1093
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:08,480
the foundation of your relationship is built on respect, trust and belief, then, you know, I think

1094
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:13,600
you, you won't really lash at each other, even though on film sets, you get stressed, and people

1095
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:17,920
say things they don't mean, and they get stressed, and they snap, and whatever it is. But if they

1096
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,920
really respect you, you just don't have that. And with all those people, I've just never had that.

1097
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:27,520
And I'm so grateful that I haven't, you know, but I think that comes down to compatibility of working.

1098
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:35,440
Yeah. I mean, fantastic, though. Yeah. Oh, so count my blessings. I really do. It's crazy.

1099
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,640
I mean, I do want to talk to you, though, a bit about like, your own mental health as well,

1100
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:46,480
because you did raise it earlier about like, are you, would you describe, how would you describe

1101
01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:52,240
your mental health? Like, and where it sits? Fluctuating? Probably. Isn't that everyone?

1102
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:57,200
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In relation to films,

1103
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,240
or work? In both, and in life.

1104
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:05,920
In life? In life, pretty okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think pretty good, pretty optimistic, but I think,

1105
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:12,560
I think work, I think I put more pressure on myself than an average person. And I acknowledge that,

1106
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:18,960
and I talk about that often because I know I do, but I won't stop. I have goals I want to hit by

1107
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:26,240
certain dates and a certain age, and therefore I have to just do it. I have to hit it. So I don't

1108
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:31,440
know, I think the misogyny on set, that and being undermined, and that really messed my mental health

1109
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:36,720
and self-confidence. Bouncing back from that took a while. My boyfriend was super supportive

1110
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:42,240
throughout that. But that was really, really like confronting. I just didn't ever think that would

1111
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:50,400
sort of happen. So that was really shocking. After that, though, doing girl was great, but

1112
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:57,280
also stressful. There was COVID, and COVID was fine with me though. I was fine through it. COVID

1113
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:02,800
was just like- Yeah, I was fine with COVID. COVID was fine with me. We had a great budding relationship.

1114
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:08,320
No, we did. But no, obviously it wasn't preferable for film sets or for anybody else's financial

1115
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:14,000
situation, and I totally empathize with their experience. But I was fine with it. My mental

1116
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:20,320
health was actually thriving, to be honest. I am a very social person, and I do try to, but I'm also

1117
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:24,720
a very career-driven person. You can't have everything and have a partner, which is its own

1118
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:30,320
commitment. So I think that I struggled to find time, and I was burning myself into the ground.

1119
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:35,600
So COVID just allowed me to socially just drop everything. I could just focus on my career and

1120
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:41,200
my partner. The way my sister brings it up, and she brings up a great point, it's some study in

1121
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:46,160
some book, where they say you've got four stoves in life, and you can't have all four stoves running

1122
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:55,280
at the same time well. It's like career, social life, partnership, and oh, there's one other that

1123
01:23:55,280 --> 01:24:01,280
I will not remember. But if you don't have a social life and you don't have a career, but you've got,

1124
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,600
I don't know, your partner, then you and your partner are going to be really good, because

1125
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,160
that's the only thing you're focusing on. But if you have all four on at the same time, they can't

1126
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:15,440
all be 100%, and you're compromising the quality, which is why some people don't get married in the

1127
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:20,160
industry, and they just have the career one burning. And that's why they're so good. And then eventually,

1128
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:24,960
once that's got momentum, they will light the partner one. And then they'll light the, whatever,

1129
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:30,640
the social one. So I think I had way too many on at the same time. So COVID allowed me to drop it

1130
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:37,120
and just focus on what I needed to, and it really helped my mental health. And then I think getting

1131
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:42,160
out of that was really difficult for me, because then I had more jobs, more commitments, a stronger

1132
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,400
relationship with my partner, and then I had to add a social life again. And I just didn't have

1133
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:51,200
time. And the social pressures of going out and doing this and staying up late, and I just couldn't

1134
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:56,480
balance it. So that I struggled. But then also, I think in film and, you know, like having other

1135
01:24:56,480 --> 01:25:03,440
jobs, and, you know, you don't have a five day working week, you have like a 12 day working day

1136
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:08,560
plus six days of working, you know, maybe get one day free if you're feeling lucky. Yeah, but it's

1137
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,760
a labor of love. And you do the work, you know, film isn't really considered work, but at the end

1138
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:20,240
of the day, it's not social. So it does fall into the career category. So I think it is tough. So

1139
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:26,480
I think I burnt out really badly. After Sasha's game, I was like three weeks, couldn't walk,

1140
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:31,840
couldn't move, went into work, and my boss turned me back and said, go home. Because I just, my

1141
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:36,720
energy was gone. I just looked terrible. I was, yeah, I was really drowning in myself. I couldn't

1142
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:42,560
eat. And my partner was super helpful through that. But yeah, that was a bad burnout. And that really

1143
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:47,360
messed with me. But yeah, so look, I think it's fluctuating this industry. Like I feel like it

1144
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:51,920
always will. And you deal with different characters and other people's happiness. And you know, if

1145
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:58,320
you're in a director, producer or first AD role, you're making sure everyone is happy. And you know,

1146
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:04,000
on Sasha's game, there was 85 people. So that was just exhausting, the pre production of that. And

1147
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,840
people forget that you've done pre production too. So you get to production and they've just got all

1148
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,440
these demands. And they forget that there was so much that went before that you just haven't just

1149
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:17,520
started. You're like still chugging. So I think that's kind of, yeah, that was hard. And I really

1150
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:24,000
burnt out. But I want to say I've learned my lesson, but I don't know. Have I? I don't know.

1151
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,760
I mean, maybe not.

1152
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:31,040
Yeah, probably not. Like, I don't know. I have like ambitions and I like want to hit them by a

1153
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:37,120
certain time. And you know, unfortunately, I'm better at boundaries. I'm better at saying no.

1154
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:41,360
Oh, that's good. That's the takeaway from the burnout.

1155
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,080
Yeah, I know. It was like, I can say no now.

1156
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:46,080
Well, it's hard to say no.

1157
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:50,480
Oh, it's so hard to say no. I used to be really bad with it. I think in particular this year has

1158
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:55,040
taught me a lot to say no to. And it's mostly not because of COVID. It's mostly because of a whole

1159
01:26:55,040 --> 01:27:01,760
bunch of health issues. But it's really made me go, okay, no, like to a lot of scenarios. And I

1160
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:08,880
think it's also just like, you know, I've only got one family. I've only got one partner and I've got

1161
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:13,760
a career. So it's like, those are the things that I'm going to really focus on and make sure are

1162
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:20,720
stable. And I think also from having such a tumultuous, I think, you know, not all my credit

1163
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:26,880
friends, but I think also having a lot of friendship related drama this year, you know,

1164
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:32,320
external to actually what's even going on in my life is so dramatic that I'm like, okay, well then,

1165
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:40,400
you know, step away, kind of recoup, get to like solidify my own life and make sure that's going

1166
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:47,440
afloat. Because at the end of the day, you know, as you say, it is a lever of love. Like, and I do

1167
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:51,760
eventually want to have a family, but I also want to be there for my family. And I want to be present.

1168
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:57,120
And I don't want to just, you know, like disappear into the ether and never be seen again,

1169
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:01,760
you know, also on a social aspect as well. So it's, you got to, you got to balance everything out.

1170
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:08,720
But it's a tough job. Oh man, do I burn the candle. I think everyone does though. I think

1171
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:13,920
it's actually normal when I find a lot of people this time of year burnt out. Yeah. And I think

1172
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:19,760
partially, I'm not blaming COVID for it, but I'm saying because we were stuck, stuck for like a

1173
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:24,800
better word in Sydney and we couldn't leave and no one's had a holiday. So you haven't had that,

1174
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:28,800
okay, I'm working and now I've got the break and now I'm resetting. It feels like people have just

1175
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:34,000
been working for three years straight with no break. Whereas a holiday sort of indicates, you

1176
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:38,080
know, that's the end and then this is the beginning. And then there's something to look forward to. But

1177
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,520
I think for a lot of people when you don't have something to look forward to and you don't have

1178
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,640
an obvious end and an obvious beginning, it is really exhausting and people don't know when the

1179
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,240
end is. So it's like running a marathon and not knowing where the end is. Like of course you're

1180
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:54,160
going to burn out. Like, you know, you don't know how to pace your energy and then you've paced it

1181
01:28:54,160 --> 01:29:03,440
incorrectly. I often pace them. I've heard it so many bad places. It's like, and I noticed that

1182
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,760
the other week as well, cause it was like the first time I had a panic attack, like in so long.

1183
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:12,320
And I was talking to one of my friends as well about it. And it was just like, yeah, just the

1184
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:17,520
feeling of, you know, keeping up with your own schedule as well as your own sort of complex life

1185
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:24,080
and it was so much easier in lockdown. And cause you're so much easier. And now it's like, um,

1186
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:30,640
you know, I look at my calendar, which is riddled with things. Um, and I just look and scratch my

1187
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:35,840
head and go, Oh dear God. You just need to pull back and just compromise something. Yeah. Oh God.

1188
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:41,520
Yeah. And, and, but I also do remember like going to see a friend or going to date night, you know,

1189
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:48,000
you just really kind of go this night specifically, like I cannot book anything on these nights. And

1190
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:54,160
that is, that is the time I set aside for myself and my partner all my life, you know, and not

1191
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:59,840
onto a project, which sounds, you know, like, Oh God, are you breaking the working world? But it's

1192
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:04,480
actually really beneficial. No, it's so beneficial. And it's so important. And I think in this

1193
01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:08,960
industry, it sounds like you're, is your partner in this industry too? Yes. Okay. Oh, that does

1194
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:14,160
help then. But, um, I think, you know, but it, I mean, I guess you have different complexities,

1195
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:17,760
right? Like the fact that your head is so buried deep in it constantly that you actually cannot

1196
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:22,000
get out of it sometimes where I, the opposite, where I've got a partner, not in the industry.

1197
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,400
And sometimes all I do is talk about it. And that's exhausting for him because that shouldn't,

1198
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:31,280
that shouldn't determine our whole relationship. My career and my aspirations, but for you, you've

1199
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:36,560
got the opposite where you're so in the industry that it feels like you're like, how do you separate

1200
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:42,320
your industry from your partnership? Oh, and we do different complexity. We do. Thank Christ. We

1201
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:47,440
have a lot of other interests, but, um, it's, it's also, we work in very different fields, like, um,

1202
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:54,160
so, um, and works as a children's, um, uh, coordination program as well at the ABC.

1203
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:58,560
And I work for channel seven and we both have worked on film sets. So we mostly be, um,

1204
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:02,880
complain about like different experiences on film sets, which is great. Um, but then we also just

1205
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:09,040
have a lot of interest in books and, and like psychology and, you know, and different, um,

1206
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:13,920
different aspects of life. So I think it really balances out where we can talk to each other from

1207
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:19,760
a very creative standpoint, but also, um, we do have different skill sets, which then sort of

1208
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:25,280
are able to, you know, have a very life long and also kind of get to the point where it's like,

1209
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:30,320
let's not talk about work. Let's talk about like something else. Cause that's really beneficial

1210
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:35,040
in a relationship is healthy communication. Um, it's tough cause it's like, it's an obsession.

1211
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:41,520
Oh God. Yeah. Like film really is a lifestyle. It's not a job or a hobby. Like it's literally

1212
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:46,000
a lifestyle. So like, that's really tough. So good on you guys for setting boundaries. That's tough.

1213
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:50,880
Oh yeah. It's, it's, we, we basically did it from the get go. We were like, this is, this is our

1214
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:55,200
lives now. So we really, if we're going to make this work, we need to kind of set up these walls

1215
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:59,680
so that we kind of like, do not talk about it at certain times. But I've also lived, I've lived

1216
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:02,960
with people who worked in the industry and I did the same with them. It was like just straight up,

1217
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:08,080
like, let's just make sure we're not always talking about work. Yeah. That's a good boundary. I mean,

1218
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:12,320
like I'm trying to get better with it. And like sometimes when someone asks me about work, I'm

1219
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:16,240
just like, you know what? Like I just don't want to talk about it. I'm like, I just feel like I'm so

1220
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:21,760
talked out of it. And sometimes you just like, don't really want to revisit it. Just kind of

1221
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:27,440
want to keep social, social, you know, you don't want to mix business, business with the fun times.

1222
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:31,120
You don't want to mix like fruit with chocolate. Like I have a big pet peeve about that. I know

1223
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:35,760
people say chocolate, strawberries are the thing, but I disagree. I feel like, you know, keep health

1224
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:40,320
with health and you know, sugar with sugar. Like that's my sort of motto. Same comes with business.

1225
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:47,680
Right. Business and social keep them different. Oh my God. I love that. That's the best motto ever.

1226
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:53,120
Um, I'm going to use this as a perfect point to wrap myself. But just thinking about chocolate

1227
01:32:53,120 --> 01:33:00,240
strawberries now. Um, yeah, I am. But, um, Lexi, I do have a question for you. Where can people

1228
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:06,320
stalk you on the internet? Where can they find you? Oh, um, my Instagram, which is at by dot

1229
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:15,520
Lexi with three E's L E X E E. Um, otherwise my website, which is lexigordan.com or my IMDB page.

1230
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:20,640
Stalk me there. Stalk you there. But thank you so much for coming on. It was an absolute pleasure.

1231
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:25,920
Um, and if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, uh, you can check

1232
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:31,280
them out on Apple and Spotify and I'll be speaking to another guest next week and I'll speak to you

1233
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:40,240
all later. Goodbye.