I think that was from the Easter show and I fucking love it.
I love Little Jews.
I really want to see the musical.
Oh, yes.
I want it to come to Australia though.
Like it's like only just officially become a Broadway play.
I think, cause they made a revival.
They came back around.
Yeah.
Cause it was like before then it was kind of like an on and off Broadway play.
Like Broadway is such a weird terminology as well.
I hate it.
It's like, I'm on Broadway.
We're on Broadway.
Where exactly?
Everyone's like, is it one theater?
I'm like, no, there's many of them.
And also it depends how successful that show is, but I feel like that's become
like since the resurgence, since the resurgence, particularly now it's sort
of like going back into the public domain and everyone's like, Oh, this is really
exciting.
And I think it's actually like some of the songs were written by an Australian.
Really?
Yeah.
Like an Australian, like, so it does, or he's either Australian or British, but
he's not American and he has a unique sense of humor.
That's why it's so funny.
Yeah.
So I feel like that's probably why it appeals to us particularly because it's
very macabre and Australians, we seem to love macabre the most.
We're such dark little people.
Like that's hilarious.
Like so flat toned.
Yes.
Very good.
Well, it's like, there's only so many times where I remember in high school,
everyone was making dead baby jokes and I don't, I don't endorse dead children.
But it was like that great time when you're in high school and everyone's just
like, you know, talking about dead babies in Flanders.
That is a, it's a part of puberty, I think.
Everyone at some point is like the funniest thing is a dead baby.
You're like, oh.
And you do.
And the weirdest thing is we don't think about it, but like 17 years before, or 16
years before we were like a fetus and then you just got to know what that is.
Those days aren't too far behind us.
No.
And then, and then it's like, you know, and then we talk about going into adulthood
and everyone's like, and you know, I remember in like late high school, everyone
was talking about having kids one day and I was like, dear God, we're not even
finished puberty.
Like we haven't even finished the dead baby jokes, but thinking about making babies.
How dare you.
And then, and then potentially these babies might come out dead.
And when, how do you feel then?
This was like an awful cycle.
This horrible Icarus type thing.
Like look what you've done.
This is The Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television,
culture, mental health, and all of that fun jazzy stuff.
Today I've got my special guest and friend Rose Stunstner.
Hello.
She was so excited.
We were like, jump in, jump in.
I want to say something.
Yeah.
You are, you are so pumped.
We've already, we've already been recording for 11 minutes.
I've had, I'm now going to be sitting in the edit room, just like trim, trim, trim.
Getting what we're here to do.
They're like, oh wait, that's right.
We're making a podcast.
Um, so first topic before, because we are going to talk about your name first and
foremost, um, so it is German.
Yes.
We, we know that it's a very weird German name.
Um, it's actually probably more commonly German, you know, like then
probably my last name, um, then, you know, a weird, like, where do you
feel like it came from?
So yeah, it's a very, very German last name Stunstner.
That's normally on the U pronounced.
Yeah.
Just change the U to an O and the Z to an S is the hack.
Basically.
Um, there's a lot of, like a lot of people in my family as well.
Like we all sort of have our own variation of pronunciation because it's such an odd
name and it doesn't look or sound the way it's spelled, um, which is always a lot of
fun with German words.
Um, so yeah, I'm, I haven't got any connections to Germany at all.
Like I don't speak any German.
My dad doesn't speak any German except for like the occasional swear word.
You've been taught by your German friend.
Um, yeah, exactly.
That's about it.
Um, so the German last name comes from my great, great grandfather, I believe, who,
from what all I know from the history is that he was living in Samoa in Polynesia.
Um, during the second world war or whatever.
I can't exactly, I don't know the facts exactly, but he married my great grandmother
who was Portuguese Samoan something around that.
Yeah.
So, um, it's really weird cause you look at like my dad and my grandfather who look
like they're Samoan with a little bit of white thrown in there.
You're like, why have you got a big German last name, especially German, German last
And like, you look at the timelines, it's like our second world war, what happened?
But yeah, all I know is that like that was my great grandfather who has this really
cool German last name who was actually captured as a prisoner of war for a while.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
It was like this whole, like, I think six years he was gone.
And like when my grandfather was young in Samoa, they only spoke like, there was
so they weren't allowed to speak German after the world war two because of all the
events that happened.
Cause you would basically be like ostracized.
Yeah.
Like don't do that.
Um, and yeah, there was all this like family drama that like I only recently
discovered like when I went home, um, like over like two weeks ago for a holiday,
just a small brief holiday, my grandfather was like, yeah, look at these books.
And it was called like the Samoans.
It was this history book about all this stuff.
Like all these different cultural things in Samoa, but also like my family's name.
I'm like, why are we in here?
Like we're a bunch of Germans.
He's like wrong.
And we learned.
Yeah.
It was really interesting.
I wish I read more of it or brought it or something to give some fun facts about,
but yeah, it was really cool to learn about.
Cause I'm like, what, like what's the go with Germany?
Do we have any family there?
Yeah.
Which we do, but I've never met them.
I've never been there.
I would love to go, but yeah, it's just weird.
Like mix of like, cause at home we have this like, like a Christmas dinner table
would be like sauerkraut, Kranskis, all that sort of German food.
But then we'd have like really Samoan dishes, like Taro wrapped in banana leaves and coconut
like cooked in like a omu, which is like a ground oven and like would have all the seafood
and like okra and stuff like that.
So it's like a mix of cultures.
And I always ask like my grandfather, I'm like, is there a good Samoan last name for
us?
He's like, nope, it's just Stuntsna.
But like we all have like Samoan like names of various cultures.
And like names of variations and stuff like that.
So like my name's Rose, but like the Samoan version would be like Los Alea or something
like that.
Yeah.
And so which we only use when we're in trouble, which is terrifying.
Good to know.
Yeah.
I told my boyfriend recently, it was the worst thing I've done.
He just uses it for evil.
Like I'll be somewhere and he's like Los Alea.
I'm like, oh shit, what?
Hello?
He's like, oh, it's interesting.
I'm like, don't use that name.
It's like, this has scarred me.
Therapy.
It reminds me of like my grandfather that's booming down the house.
Like, what are you up to?
I'm like, nothing.
Yeah.
Really interesting.
I find the name like it's always one of those things that comes up.
People like, oh, Rose, is that German?
How do you say this?
What's going on?
I'm like, yeah, nothing exciting.
But then I found out it is very exciting.
There's a lot of history behind it, which I wish I knew more about.
Have you tried ancestry ancestry.com?
No, I should.
Yeah.
Because that's like a little inside nook and cranny to the inside.
I wonder what we're going to find.
I'm scared if we're going to find a Nazi in there or something.
I'd be like, oh no.
I mean, like, you know, maybe it's one of the Nazis who owned a concentration camp.
It was like, I am funding this.
Yeah.
It's like one of the worst.
I'm like, I should have just stuck to my books.
I'm like, grandfather, the selected books he gave me.
So I didn't have to know the truth.
It's like, this is too dark even for me.
I mean, like that's always sort of like the thing I feel like with, you know,
going the clash of cultures and everything.
I mean, did people, especially friends, find that odd, you know, in a family upbringing?
Not so much actually when I grew up in Queensland, because like Brisbane,
like the Gold Coast, we have like a lot of like islander presence there.
Like there's just a lot of people around there.
Like a lot of my Samoan cousins live in either like Brisbane or New Zealand, obviously.
But yeah, that was just, it wasn't so much of a big mix up there or an issue.
I definitely found them like when I was living in Melbourne
or stuff like that, like there was more of a confusion.
People being like, oh, German and Samoan, that's a bit weird.
I'm like, yeah, well, I'm just born to the blood that I am.
Like, I can't help that.
Yeah.
I mean, like, you know, especially because Melbourne is very white.
It's very white.
Which is kind of weird because it's like this artsy city.
Exactly.
And then it's very white central.
But I mean, like Sydney is pretty white.
I mean, it has a huge, if you go to certain pockets,
it does have like huge populations of like, you know, like you've got Chinatown.
Basically you've got like, Taxwood and the cities and stuff.
But if you go out like far west, you get like, you know, Lebanese, like, and then,
and then a lot of, you know, Indian, Sri Lankan, you know, all these people live out
like in Parramatta.
So these little communities define us so fascinating.
It's such a like, like Australian sort of thing.
A lot of cities, I think Brisbane was a lot more sort of just all mixed in together.
It's totally because it's a small, like it's a glorified country town.
So it's small enough that everyone mixes in.
But yeah, I found like, yeah, definitely in Melbourne,
which I thought was really interesting at first.
I was like, yeah, you'd have like Ligon street, which is just all Italian.
Then you have like different like areas of like Vietnamese food.
And it was like the best Vietnamese you had because it was just entirely Vietnamese families
that had been there since like, like decades.
And like, yeah, it was fantastic.
Which I found really, really interesting.
But I think in Sydney, I find that like a lot of these fantastic like sources of like
just cultural knowledge are a lot further away from the main central area, which I just,
it's something I've noticed from like, yeah, it's like different cities.
It's like we, we, we are particularly like a city, which, you know, I think also being
predominantly white person coming from society, but it is like very much, you know, growing up
in pockets.
I remember that one of my friends in school was the only indigenous person in the entire
area of the school.
Like we didn't really have, I think we had one other kid actually, we did have two,
but it was very minor.
And I'm like, this is the inner west, which I thought would have been way more, but even
growing up, I was like, well, that's a luxury that I guess that many schools around here
wouldn't have then like, but it was kind of interesting because you know, you, it did
kind of like, I guess make me feel very upper class kind of in some ways.
And I guess as a kid, I wouldn't, I really didn't like think about like, oh, you never
really think about culture classes.
My parents never gave like a rat's ass about any sort of like culture classes.
They weren't like, particularly interested in like racial conversations or when you're
a kid, like prejudice doesn't exist.
You're like, you're this person I either like you or I don't like you.
And you carry on playing with whatever you're doing.
But it was, it's really interesting because I feel like, because I grew up in such a, like
a non-judgmental and non-issue when I do see people and I've met people with such high
regard to different cultures mixing, I'm like, what is wrong with you?
Like, why are you so angry?
I know it's so weird.
Yeah.
I think it's also because I'm like, do you eat their food?
Oh, you know, I like sushi.
And what's your problem?
I can't be racist.
I eat sushi.
Yeah.
It's like, do you know how rare it is to find sushi in Japan?
Like it's not that big of a thing.
It's like, it's, it's, you're basically going to anywhere else and you're eating like, um,
it was an unagi or something.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
I like American food.
McDonald's is delicious.
Like what?
I know.
And it's just like, I just feel like they're, I think particularly with Sydney people,
but also just with Australians in New York, when you do not travel and you do not, you
haven't grown up with a lot of variety.
And I mean, like, you know, obviously you grew up with a particularly, so risky area.
Oh yeah.
I mean, like you, you do kind of get people who have lived a very sheltered life and
therefore, you know, having mixed cultures automatically means, oh.
Outside threat.
But then, but then do you have the issue of just people
assuming that you're just Anglo-Saxon all the time?
Um, not too, it's as I've gotten older a little bit,
because I haven't seen the sun as much, but when I was younger,
my sister and I, we got like, our parents would get questions like, oh, like who's the
father?
Or like, what, like what my favorite was, what are they?
I'm like, these are two kids like running around because like we were quite tan again
in Queensland, like always in the sun, always in the farm, riding horses, not being sunsaved.
Wear your sunscreen.
Yeah.
So we just sort of get weird questions.
People would think we're either like Portuguese or like South Spain,
Italian, Sicilian, or we get like, um, Australasian mixes.
People would be like, oh, are you like, I know Thai crossed.
I'm like, absolutely not.
Like probably more white than I am Polynesian.
And yet, yeah, people are like, you look slightly racially ambiguous.
We have to know what it is.
I'm like, do you know?
Like, I think it's because yeah, I have dark brown hair, dark eyes, like, yeah.
And I tan up occasionally and people are like, oh, that's so interesting.
I had one man.
Sorry, I just loved that word.
I'm just so interesting.
I had a, I remember like my favorite memory of like the whole,
because I am a very white passing person.
I was at this bar.
Um, and this old man came in.
This is in, uh, Brisbane.
He looks at me, he's like, oh, you look like a bit of a mutt.
I'm like, excuse me.
What?
I know.
And this is me, like at the bar, like looking like I'm an Anglo-Saxon person.
And they have like next to me is my friend who was like half Tongan
and maybe Indigenous Australian.
He just looked at me and he's like, what does he think?
I am like, just stay out of it.
Oh my God.
This is awful.
Yeah.
But yeah, obviously and incredibly fortunately.
So I have never had to deal too much with like the darker side of like obsession
with like race and ethnicity and stuff like that.
I mean, like that's the, that's the only advantage of like, I guess,
white passing to a varying degree.
But I do think that I've like, and I've chatted a fair amount to different people
about why passing any issue I find with it, like, like terminating terminology more so.
Why is it because you had this, we had this era where it was like, oh,
we didn't have white passing as a phrase.
So everyone used, you know, people of color or, you know, people of different cultures
and ethnicities.
And even then some people are like, oh, you can't say that.
That's the end.
They're technically not people of color.
People of color are completely different.
I'm like, well, where's the final, like where you walk?
So there was like the, and I guess it, you know, I think that's the problem we have
with society at the moment is like, there is an element where we are so politically correct
that you can't say anything without offending someone, which we all walk this fine line.
And it, and it particularly like, I watch it all the time on Q and A and shows like that,
where you do see people try and express an opinion and it gets shut down immediately
because they've used the wrong word or they've misphrased something.
And while I agree that language is such an important thing, I do think that the terms
of like white passing and stuff like that, it's actually the more common thing then,
but then people use it as, oh, but then you're not really like this.
And it's so strange that like, I find this, yeah, this obsession with like gatekeeping
and like ethnicity and stuff like that is just bizarre, especially after like the way
that like history has treated people of color and like all those different things, like,
and I'm not one who can completely speak on this, like from an honest, like truthful point
of experience because I've been very fortunate with like the way that I was brought up and
stuff like that. But like, there's such a weird, yeah, like level of gatekeeping, which I seem
like I find like comes a lot from the people who are white being like, you can't say that
you're like indigenous, like especially in America, I think there's a lot of that.
You can't say like you're indigenous American or whatever, because like they're like, oh,
how much, what's it worth? Like you don't look at it. And I'm like, why, why do we need to go
into fractions with this? Like, but we are fractions. Exactly. It's bizarre. It's a mathematical
equation. Exactly. And again, like, as I said earlier, there are bigger things to be worried
about, like why. And I think the thing with language and like the political correctness thing,
I think is really interesting because like language, especially where we are currently
in like the journey of human experience, like language is changing like crazy. Like it is
evolving so much. And so it's obviously incredibly hard these days to try and say the right thing
without making a mistake or missing a certain cue and stuff like that. And I think the best way to
approach that is just to be like, yeah, willing to learn and be like that childlike innocence of
wanting to learn. Cause I was talking, yeah, with a friend of mine who was non-binary and like how
they were like, um, addressing that sort of like correcting their friends when they misgendered
and stuff like that. And like they said, like, it's okay. Like you were, like if they were known
like as a certain gender their entire life and now their friends are having to like re like,
what they said, they said something in a kind of way of like, you have a couple of times to sort
of get used to rephrasing things because you've just said it almost as a muscle memory, but muscles
are made to change and grow. And so you'll be fine. Um, don't worry. Like it's okay. I know that you
are not doing it maliciously, so that is fine. But if you were someone else who comes up to me,
like a stranger and says like, I don't know that you can obviously see the subtext and everything
that they're saying. And I think that's important to understand when like someone's trying their
very best to express something and you know that they're not being malicious when they say the
wrong thing. And I think, I think also we, you know, it's such a generational thing because like I,
I work predominantly in a tech field and so I do, like I identify as gender fluid. So I think
particularly for me, it's very hard to be in a male dominated tech field to be like, okay,
here's my pronouns. And because I remember I was like, you're what? Oh my God. But I think my
favorite thing was there was an email that one of my friends who I used to live with, um, they sent
out an email and, um, they go by they, them and she, her, and they sent out the same with their
pronouns on it. And like my coworker at the time was just like, why do people do that? I was like,
Oh God, no unsafe. And it was like, I have a lot of respect for you, but I will never tell you the
things that I know. And it's like, I remember like, and it was, it was kind of a hard thing because I
came out, you know, like a lot of my decisions in life came out much lighter because you know,
I grew up in the nineties. So the nineties when I was a kid was not the most accepting time.
So I find like my biggest trials and tribulations came from finding my identity when I was halfway
through my twenties and, and come into terms with a lot of what I'd felt since I was like 14
onwards and going through these stages of being like, am I a guy? Am I a girl? Like where do I
sit in the spectrum? And then it's like, do I like guys? Do I like girls? I don't know. And then all
these conversations. And then finally it was just like clicked in my, like I had enough, like I had
so many exes just go, you are definitely not straight. It's just like, it was my favorite
quote and like even my best friend to this day, I love it a bit. And she was just like, when I told
her, she was like, glad you worked it out. That's like when I came out to my parents as bisexual
and it was the most underwhelming thing. I think they knew way before I did. You know what the saddest
thing was my parents didn't know before me. And I was like, my mom messaged me because she found out
via Instagram. And I was like, I've been out for two years and she had no idea. And she was like,
and I was like, you grew up, like you raised me. It was so funny. The day that I came out to my
parents, like I had like two glasses of wine with my friend trying to get like the courage up. She's
like, you have to tell them. I'm like, no, I can't. She's like, they probably already know, like look
at you. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, can't you tell it's oozing out of me? Like I've got
like multiple rings on and nose piercings and like just, I think I had like purple hair at the time.
And she's like, you don't exactly look straight. I mean, like, you know, if I looked at you, I'd
be like, nah, just very straight, very hetero. This is me trying to look nice. But I came into
my mom and she's like, oh yeah, that's cool. Like I always knew you had like something fruity about
you. I'm like, thanks. Oh my God. I lie. But like my first memory of like that I realized was a
memory of like my parents knowing that I was definitely like a queer kid was I was maybe like
seven and I had this best friend, her name is Zoe. And we just did everything together, like
everything. Um, we were like, those kids were obsessed with like fairies. We'd write fairy
letters, letters together to fairies. We did everything that was very fun. And like we'd run
around and do camping trips and run around like playing Robin Hood and stuff like that. My parents
one day were like driving me to school. They're like, so do you like Zoe? I'm like, yeah, I love
Zoe. They do. You love love Zoe. I'm like, I'm seven. I don't know what that concept is yet,
but sure. And my parents like, Hmm, okay. And as we got older, like maybe the last time I saw her,
I was like 10. And like we were talking, I think we were doing sex ed at a very Catholic school at
the time. So it wasn't really sex ed. I was talking to my mom reading this book. I'm like,
can girls have babies? She's like, no, but they can fall in love. Why do you and Zoe love each
other? I'm like, why, what, what is all this talk about Zoe and I? Like she's really cool, I guess.
But then I got older and I was like, yeah, that was definitely a first crush. Just didn't know
that that was allowed. Yeah. I thought she was fabulous. Like she was so cool. And like,
like my first, when my first male crush was with Harry Potter, like he's awesome. He's really cool
and really neat. And I was like, I think Zoe's just as cool and neat. I just didn't figured it
out because I didn't know the words for it and stuff like that. That is the cutest. I mean, like
look, I think it was just kind of my first like realization was trying to convince myself that
David Tennant wasn't extremely attractive. Oh my God. He's so dreamy. He is so cute. And I remember
like he was in, he was in Blackpool and like he's also in Doctor Who, which I love, but like I
particularly remember him in Blackpool and he was like, uh, light sort of like early thirties. Um,
and I was like, who's this? Who's this? And I'm like 14 and I'm like, don't just, you know,
to pretend this doesn't make sense. Yeah. I was like, and I just went through that like,
you know, pre pubescent sort of thing of just, you know, what most teenagers do is lock yourself
in a room and watch dark, dark things. Most parents never want to know. Yeah. It's just best if you
just, yeah, blind us on. But I mean, like, I think it was very interesting because I tried to convince
myself because I had a very like religious grandmother on my dad's side. So she was like
very like, and I used to be one of those scared children, which was very like, Oh, if I, you know,
masturbate, is that going to go to hell? Is this going to make me blind? You're like, Oh no.
I just like think that I just love the idea of God coming down and studying.
Abusing these children. He's like, how dare you have pleasure?
It's like, how dare you do it? Here is the, here is dicks to the eyes and this will blind you.
Why is God watching us? Like that's a permanent thing to do.
I know it's like, it's like when people say God's watching you all the time, like while I shit,
it's like, as a robot, as a kid, while I'm in the toilet, that's weird. And everyone's like,
that's not the point. I'm like, shut up. Your God isn't the point.
But I do remember like being intensely, you know, like, and I remember it was like, Oh no,
it's clearly like, um, Sarah Paulson, um, not Sarah Paulson, uh, Sarah Parrish in, in the show.
And I was like, nah, she's the one attracted. And I was like, is she though?
Yeah. But David Tennant is also here.
They're both here.
Yeah.
Like trying to make your eyes face different directions. Like, geez.
But I think it was like that realization. And I just kept like, my dad once, um, said, he's like,
Oh, you remind me a lot of David Bowie. And I was like,
Yes.
I was like, Oh, I love, I love, I love. And I think it was like my dad, my dad always knew,
like he just automatically knew, but my dad and I are very similar. And I realized that growing up
was, um, he was very similar to me. He just didn't identify with other guys. So it was like that kind
of concept of you're a bloke, but you're not in society. And then how do you like, and I remember
once I was probably about 21 and he was just like, he said to me, he was like, it would have been
more sense if I was born a woman. And I was like, that is the nicest and most humbling thing to kind
of like, how he said that to you, he said that to me. And I was like, that's really nice. That's
really kind. And I was like, okay, cool. This is like more of a relation that I have with my dad
now. And I think it's just, we get along really well and we talk, but he's very open. He's very
emotional. And I think that, um, wonderful mentor to have as well. I feel like not enough people
have such a strong masculine energy in their lives. Like, yeah, but it's complete opposite.
Cause growing up he was he, cause he had so much childhood trauma himself. He didn't know how to
compartmentalize. And then it was through a lot of therapy and a lot of like working out and a lot of
like, particularly after his mother died, it was kind of just this big open up to his kids. He was
like, okay, now my parents are no longer around. I have no, my obligation is to my children and I
need to make sure that their remainder of my existence is not in vain and not remembered is,
I guess this very bitter person towards their own parents and very appreciative. Cause he, all he
he wanted ever was for us to have a good life. And I think a lot of that came out and through just
general hatred towards his own parents and, and trying not, and particularly because his mother
was so religious, like he wasn't, he's a, he's an agnostic. He mostly believes in nothing other
than the rules of science. And I think particularly he was just trying, he's both his siblings are
super religious. Yeah. So he's the only one. And yeah, all my cousins on those sides. And I,
I love my cousins very much, but I do find that it is one of those things that when I, you know,
I do talk to my dad's brother occasionally. He's really lovely, but dad is currently estranged from
his sister because she just completely threw like, yeah, family drama happened. And dad was just
like, cool. I don't really want to spend any more time with you. And you've just kind of like,
crap. Yeah. And I think it was also because they, um, like my aunt particularly had my
Nan on her side. And then it was suddenly that funnel shift kind of disappeared. And then all
she had was her brothers and she didn't know how to talk to her brothers. So it was very clear that
there was a lot of pent up issues. That's so interesting. It's so strange. Like something I
realized like recently, like a couple of years back, like just before lockdown, it was like,
I just had that realization, which everyone does, is that you realize that your parents are just
people with their own drama and their own history before you. Cause like for ages, when you're a kid,
you're like, oh, they're these like pedestal, like people who know everything. And then yeah,
you get older to a certain age. You're like, oh my God, like you were just, yeah, you were just a
person and you have just as many flaws as I do. Like it's such an interesting and all of a sudden
times like heartbreaking change and thing to realize, but it just makes everything so much
easier once you get past that point. I think your dad probably had like a similar thing being like,
I don't have to be like my parents. I don't have to follow this path because they said it that way.
Like, yeah. Yeah. And I think it's really important to kind of like raise, you know,
cause you know, cause I definitely want to have kids one day, but I also want to raise them in a
society that, you know, has a very like, you know, do what you want to do. Don't kill people, but
yeah, just don't do crime too much. You know, do drugs safely. If you want to tell me about them,
go right ahead. Like just let me know. Don't do anything that is too stupid. Yeah. Don't do a
murder. Don't do a bankrupt. Yeah. Like just, just don't get yourself caught. And basically if you
just do crime well, you're going to murder people. Here's my advice. I'm like, hi, hot tips of murder
with Rose. I mean, like, do you listen to it? I listened to way too much. I used to, not as much
as I used to. I've now moved onto like Dungeons and Dragons podcasts. You're such a nerd. I am
such a nerd. I'm really like, I, I've literally got Dungeons and Dragons coming up this Saturday.
I'm very excited to play. I did cancel my session tonight to do this, which I was like so fine with,
but yeah. Can I just say thank you for making time in your incredible schedule. Cause that is sick
as fuck. Yeah. I text like the party. I'm like, Hey guys, I can't do a session tonight. I'm on a podcast.
They're like, that's so cool. Is it a D and D podcast? I'm like, I'm going to make it one.
So yeah. How often do you guys get together and play? Um, we play, so the one that I'm DMing,
I play fortnightly as much as I can. It's completely homebrewed one. So I do fortnightly.
So I have time to prepare and stuff like that. And then there's another one I play, which my
partner runs. He's wonderful. He's doing a curse of Strahd game, which is a lot of fun. Yeah.
Really fun. So it's very spooky, Gothic, vampiric, like werewolves, all that stuff with just,
shit. Yeah. Yeah. With like three just absolute crack addict queers playing characters, just
unraveling everything that he's planned out. Um, which is really fun. It's great. And we're like
myself and like one other player, both actors as well. So like our improv is just ridiculous.
And he's watching us like go on these tangents. He's like, what, what is going on? So it's a lot
of fun. Yeah. Oh my God. I love that. I'm already like in love with what you do. I play board games.
He's like, Oh, I just, I love board games and I miss playing D and D so much. And it was one of
my like favorite pastimes. It's also just, I love a good DM. And it's like, um, I used to play
episodic cause my shift work was like so terrible. So we'd meet up like once every two or three
weeks and then play a game. But you know, it was one of those things that, um, when we did,
we'd have to recap. Yeah. You'd have the right, the notes, right? Well, we're the same cause like
the party I run, like we're all bartenders. We all work together or some of us used to work and have
moved on. So like it's our catch up and keeping us like sort of sane. And we, we say it's like
fortnightly, but it's normally like fortnight and then like a month and then two weeks in a row.
And that's just, it's bizarre, but it's yeah, very similar. Like I have to write notes and be like,
what happened? Cause it's especially cause it's homebrew as well. Like I'm like, I can't remember
where we are, what's going on. And like, what I plan is not what the players do. So I'm like,
they're on the fly trying to make up and figure out things to do. And I'm like, why they do this?
And it's like almost when, you know, they gave you as a DM, you give them a direction and you're
like, now fuck that. Yeah. Like you have two doors. Like we found a secret third door. I'm like X
how I didn't prepare this. Like where is this leading? All right. Sure. Like right. No,
it's like, yeah, it's always my favorite is just watching. And especially if you go into like D and
D law and you go into the old books, like you used to find in the bookshop. Um, yeah, like some of
the like the spells and stuff that you cast and then the rules that some of them would have where
you can't do two things at once. And I'm like, are you fucking for real? Like how uncoordinated
with these original characters? Look, it's like, um, and, and like one of my favorite role,
part, role playing games is actually a great board game called, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, fury of Dracula.
What is this? It's such a good game. It's like six hours. It's worth a play. Okay. Cool. It's so
cool. But basically you get shifts and you get the day shift where all the four main characters
play. And then you get the night shift where Dracula gets to move secretly and he has his own
map so he can hide in locations that no one knows. And then if he manages to enslave the world,
then the players are fucked. But if they manage to find him and kill him before then, then it's
like battleships with vampires. And it's so cool. Like, it's such a fun game. And like, yeah, like
I haven't played in a few years, but I had the ball game here. And then like, I love horror games
particularly, but I'm also just like a horror fanatic. Yeah. I love horror movies so much and
anything horror related. Like I absolutely don't. Like you were saying earlier, like yeah,
Gekko Mouto Taro is making a Pinocchio. And I'm like, I hope it's terrifying.
I just, like, I literally, I, the first thing, um, when I was about like 19 was what Taro,
and then I was like, Oh my God, I can't ever go back and watch people getting mutilated.
Really kind of set my sociopathic psycho, like analyzing nature in the set in stone. Uh, be
worried in a dark alley. Well, the dark alley I walked down to get to this house. This is actually
not a house. The spooky tree. I was looking at the front, I'm like, this looks like a D&D mansion.
I love the fact that the house looks so ominous. Um, but no, I think, I think particularly with
that is just, you know, horror is such a staple. And it's the reason like I originally probably,
like I got into acting cause I, like, I wanted to do sci-fi. So I wanted to particularly get
into sci-fi genre. And then it kind of like, I went into what would it be like to produce?
What would it be like to make and direct? And like, I do a lot of, I do too much stuff,
but I do a lot of like, I, um, co-write stuff with friends and then I'd like make stuff. I try and
make short films when in between my actual hectic life. Um, and even then, like I spent about two
years co-writing a script with a friend. Um, and yeah, I had this horror film in a drawer,
which is literally like very dark and twisted and fucked up. So, um, I can't wait to make it
one day. And no, it's in the drawer. Um, I might tell you about it after. Please do. Yeah, that
sounds fantastic. Um, but yeah, I want to talk about you and particularly like where this journey
of creativity started for you. Oh God. Yeah. Cause like, let's go back to little rose. It's a rose
and, and where little rose grew into that. So the queer flower, the bouquet. Um, no, little rose has
always wanted to be an actor. Um, which is really sweet. I, the reason I went back to acting school
is I found a little letter to myself. Like I was at my parents' house and say, I can't wait to be
an actor. I was like, Oh, I've got to do it now. Like in a child healing or something. Um, no. So
I've always loved like creativity. Um, has been something that's just been like my family's blood.
Like my dad's a musician, like a hobby musician. He's now a lawyer, but he's just a mean guitar
player. Like he's got so many at home. He's got his own music room now, which is fantastic. Yeah.
He's like a dedicated hobby guitarist. He's very good. Um, my mom is an artist, she, but not her
day job. Yeah. Again, like very, very artistic. Like drew like painted and stuff like that. I
remember going to her like art exhibitions as a kid. Um, and then like, yeah, like my uncles and
aunts are all very musical and like just generally like we're all very artsy people. So it was just
sort of something that was like a given. Like I can't do math and science to save myself, but I
I can sing, dance and act. Yeah. That's all I can do. Um, so yeah, like acting was something
that sort of came out of like, as a kid, I had this obsession with stories and storytelling.
Yeah. Um, and like growing up on a farm, not very much to do. This is back when like dial
up internet was still a thing. And like dad would say like, it doesn't work because I just don't
want to deal with kids watching TV and on the internet all the time. So they could give me a
stick, send me and my sister on the way into the paddocks and we just have fun. And that's, yeah,
just, I'd make up these incredible worlds in my head. Like I've always had a very, very, very
vivid, almost out of control imagination. Um, really, really good, not fun and a dark hallway
at night when you're running to your bedroom after the bathroom, terrifying time. I'm like,
there's something that's going to eat me. Yeah. Like I have very vivid imagination. Um, yeah. So
I just grew up like telling stories to my sister. Like I put on, I was the kid who put on plays for
like the cousins and stuff like that. Like I'd make short films with like my shitty little via
just camera and like try and edit it together with like iMovie or whatever it was before iMovie was
a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Macintosh something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Like one time I made a little like a plasticine stop motion film and dad's like, okay, well like
do you want to do a night, a short course for like, um, like kids? Yeah. Sure. I'll try that.
And that's basically like, I know it was like maybe 10 or 11. It's where I realized that like
you can do storytelling and like playing pretend for money. And I was like, this is fantastic.
This is like amazing. I play pretend all the time. Like all I do is like have these like long form,
like playing pretend games with my friends at like lunch times. We'd play over like months.
We'd have these worlds and stuff like that. Um, which is always fantastic. I think I was like,
like you want to do sci-fi. I want to do fantasy would be really fun. Yeah. It would be really
cool. Um, or just, yeah, like basically just be in, in any of the books that I read as a kid.
Oh, I know. Right. So yeah, I remember reading Skulldaggery Pleasant as a kid. It was like my
favorite book ever. I don't know if you've never heard of it. It's fantastic. There was like,
there's probably going to be one listener who's like, I know that book. I loved it. I was obsessed
with it. There was a character in it called, um, Valkyrie Kane. And she had like an illustration
in the front cover of what she looked like and make that look like me. Like that's me.
This is incredible. And I was like, well, now I have to become an actress because I'm nearly
at the same age that she is. And when they produce the movie, like I've got to be that. I've got to
be her. I was like, this has to be me. So that's when I got buckled down. They started doing drama
seriously in high school. I did all these other short courses in tenor and tensors if I could.
And I got older than Valkyrie Kane was in the books. And I was like, oh man, what do I do?
And this is like, by the time I'm graduating high school, like I'd done heaps of acting
in school, like musicals, plays. I always got the lead because like there was five of us in the drama
club and I was the one who took it seriously. I was like, I am going to be in this play.
I was in a small country town, so there wasn't much competition anyway. So it was very easy.
But yeah, I then like got to like, yeah, end of grade 12. And I was like, it's the time to
go to acting schools. And I was like, I have no idea what I want to do. Like I'm like, I can't do
this. Like I'm not, I had my first ever taste of imposter syndrome and it hit me like a truck.
I was like, I can't do this. Yeah. So I didn't do acting. I went to university because it's
what you do. And I signed up for like a creative writing course and started doing like studying
Shakespeare, like dramaturgy and mainly writing and like a bit of language here and then I can
learn Latin for a little bit, which was just painful. But really cool, really cool to learn
about. But I'm just like, I'm never doing that again. I would have just rather learned Spanish
or something. But yeah, so I did writing. And then something happened. I don't know what it was,
but just something in my brain turned off and all that creative, like vivid imagination that I had
all through my youth and stuff. I'm still young. What am I saying? Although my childhood was just
gone. It was so strange. And it was like this heartbreaking thing. Like I felt like this
numbness and I was like, this is awful. Like what do I do? So I just decided to leave it all, drop
out of uni, moved to Melbourne for four years, didn't touch like writing or like singing or
acting or anything. Living this very, very bland life. It was awful. I hated it. Like I look back
on those days and like, Jesus Christ, that was a dark time for me. And then like, yeah, basically
was falling more and more into the spiral. Like I've lost what it is that makes me me,
which is my creativity. Like everyone in my family has it. Why did mine go away? Like you ever see
those like things in like movies when like the heroine, she just loses her power. That's what
it felt. It was this awful feeling. I'm like, I can't, I don't know who I am. And my mom eventually
saw me like spiraling after like four years. She's like basically packed me in a suitcase,
took me home to the farm, chucked me in like the cottage that we have attached to the house. And
she's like, you're going to sit here and you're going to get your shit together. I'm like, okay.
Like sure. And it was again, like that same thing of like being on the farm, nothing to do.
Slowly, like all these sparks started coming back of like, I'd like I'd write a short story or I'd
found like my old like under Google drive, like writing folder and just found all these old things
in there. I'm like, oh my God, I could finish that. This is nothing else to do. Um, and eventually
like, I'm like, I'm getting more bigger and bigger. This itch of like the snowball rolling down this
hill of like creativity that's slowly coming back. And this is in Rockhampton. And I got this like,
maybe a year into like living back at home. Um, I got an email from my old drama teacher
from high school. Who's only like five years older than me anyway. And she's like, hey,
I'm like, oh, hi Jess. Oh, Mrs. Light. I don't know what to call you. Um, she's like, Jess is fine.
She's like, I've got this audition for this play that I wrote coming up. Would you like to be in
it? And I'm like, oh, why? She's like, well, because like I was your drama teacher. I know
you can do that. You can act. I'm like, no, that was just because it was a small class. She's like,
nevermind. You can act. You know what you're doing. Come do the play. Um, audition got a
play. It got a part, I think, because she'd written this role. She's like, this is for Rice.
Um, and it was just this weird like putting back on these boots that I hadn't touched in like
years. And it was fantastic. Like there was always that like, I forgot how addictive
it is to be on stage and have that adrenaline and like to be telling a story to an audience.
Like it doesn't matter. I find with my acting training now, especially being at acting school,
it doesn't matter how much training or work or like script analysis and all this hard work you put in.
If it doesn't affect the audience, it doesn't matter because it's never about you. It's always
about telling the story and the other person and like what the audience is seeing. It is always
about the story. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how good of
an actor you are as long as people are enjoying it and you're getting the story across. That's what
it's about. Yeah. And I think people forget a lot and I forgot a lot as well. It's probably how I
lost that creativity because I was like, I have to be the best and I want to be this like incredible,
like unstoppable force, but I forgot what the essence of it was. I mean, I think that's
extraordinary. It's extraordinary that you come out the other end and you're like, oh my God,
this is something I felt like I lacked. But particularly, I completely relate to you when
you have that imposter syndrome and you sort of like, oh shit, what am I actually doing?
Because I'm literally going through that at the moment. Particularly last week,
I was sort of thinking back to this year's been an absolute shocker. It was a mental shocker
because my partner and I moved in together and then suddenly all these sort of health related and
life changes happened. I was just like, keeping on top of this. I think particularly when I
started this podcast, particularly it was kind of like a reflection because there was a lockdown,
didn't have anything creative to do. So I created this because I couldn't go out and film.
And then I had to set all these projects aside and then suddenly it was like coming back to this.
And I was like, oh my God, what is, you know, like, and you suddenly have this machine. I was
able, like literally last year, I was able to release one episode every week for 52, 52 weeks.
This year I've not been able to do that. It's sporadic as anything, fuck. Because like I've
had so much happen. And I think- Life's back and you're like, oh, okay.
Yeah. So I think that, you know, like some interviews I've recorded months ago still need
to be released. And I think that, you know, while these people are awesome and they're fine for the,
you know, the way it is kind of like this, I think you do feel like, you know, it's like, well,
who was that version last year? Like, is it the imposter? Was that an imposter? Have I done
something wrong? No, same person, just that life has changed. So like your workload literally shifts.
And I think that, and I still go through this, like where I go, I haven't done enough. What is
my career doing? Oh, I have this argument with my partner all the time. He's like, just sit down
and rest. I'm like, I could be doing something else while I'm resting. He's like, no, just be.
I'm like, what? And that's like probably a thing that like probably keeps me most sentenced. Like
just thinking, like just be, just sit there. And so you get taught in acting school, like just sit in
the space, just breathe, look at someone else. And like, that's ridiculous, but it's such an
important thing to learn. Especially people like us who are creative and we want to get everything
done all the time. We want to create all this stuff when you just sit and be, I guess that's
the hardest thing to do. And yet that is sometimes like the most fascinating thing to watch someone
do. Yeah, I know. I think it's interesting. Yeah. And I think it was like where I learned,
particularly where I loved acting the most was actually observing other people going to parks.
Like when I remember, like, you know, one, um, one course of the ATYP taught me was that you just go
and observe people. And I did this, um, great Rowan Atkinson sketch, um, where he did this like
hell monologue. He plays the devil. Oh, the devil. Yeah. I've seen that one. So good. So good.
Anyway, I did that as part of like, it was a monologue course. So we did this sort of like,
I picked that and all the people in the class, one of them was like, oh, there's someone who looks
exactly like your character. So we kind of stalked this to get the mannerisms, but it was so much
fun because we'd all find people for each other in this class. Like we'd be like, oh, try and
duplicate what they're doing. Cause this was like, you know, we go down to circular key. So it's like
massively packed. Yeah. We did a character class too. It was fascinating. It was so weird. Um,
but I miss, I'm, I think that's what I love about acting. And it particularly like also just what
we do and don't do because particularly like with voice, um, and, uh, you know, like you and I have
particularly emotive voices, but a lot of the time I feel like, you know, what's that rule they teach
you about acting is acting is reacting. Exactly. And I like a personal despise, I think when I meet
like some actors out there and like I've worked with a lot of them is particularly when actors
need a lot of lines. I'm like the whole point of a character might, you know, like it's like Jennifer
Lawrence, she was in a film once she barely had any lines for like five scenes, I think. And then
suddenly she had lines and it was the most impactful character. Like, you know, it's like, um,
you see so many famous actors who never have a line. And the point is, you know, they're in the
film, you see them, they're the kind of one who's just watching, observing. Well, it's like, and
this is like, hopefully not to spoil anything, but like House of the Dragon, have you seen that?
I haven't. Well, without spoiling anything, like Matt Smith's character, he's incredible. You've
probably seen like reviews and stuff being like he put on the most incredible performance without
saying a single word. And like when you do, if you watch it, I recommend you do watch it. You'll get
to the scene, you'll see it. And you're like, this man has told so much emotion and so much about
what his inner terminal and monologue is just by like his body language, his micro expressions
on his face. Like that's what acting is. It's like, it's reacting and listening and like everything's
on the other person. And like, you can find a lot of what you need to do for your performance from
what someone else is doing. And I find that like so fun to do. And like the moment you find yourself
thinking about that and doing that, you're like, Oh my God, it's bizarre. But like you like, I've
started doing a couple, like a lot of camera work and like, um, just self-tapes in general, like
watching myself react to like what my reader would say. Like they'd say something, not the way I
planned it to and watching my face change. I'm like, that's it. Like that's what people love to
watch is like that reaction. And there's thoughts behind your eyes. Yeah. That's the thoughts. You
want to see someone having thoughts is all you need to see. You don't want to blank canvas of
doing nothing. Yeah. Like I'm actively listening and that's all I'm doing. Like you, I'm clearly
like new when you, you try to like maintain contact, like eye contact with someone, like you're
listening and like, I'm paying attention to what you're saying. I'm paying attention to what you
say, but you've realized you haven't had a single thought in like three minutes and you haven't
listened to a word that the person said because you were so actively listening, but you've just
like blank faced them. I think I did that the other day. I was like, Oh shit. Whoops. It's,
it's so funny. I was laughing about it. Like, cause it's something that I did for a long time
in the beginning of like my acting schooling in Korea, just like, I'd be like, I'm listening
and this is me listening. And it was just the most boring performance in the world.
Like this is acting. Yeah. Just blank face staring. Yeah. Looking like ditto, the Pokemon just
staring straight faced. I love it. It's so funny to watch how that's grown and how like, yeah,
you're trusting myself that I know what's being like, I know what my next line is. So just
listening to the next person. And it's like, but even then, like when you do those, like sort of
just, you let go of what's going on and you listen to what's being said, you then just get to go into
the story yourself. And it's back to that whole idea of like, we're playing pretend. This is really
fun. What's going to happen next. And it's very interesting because there's certain characters
where like I literally, if I'm really immersed in something, I forget I'm there. Like it's,
it's such a weird like mentality. And it was one of those things, cause I hadn't touched acting in
so long. And then when I started like reading my own scripts and I was like, Oh, I've written this.
Like, let me give it a go. And then like, you get into that mindset of actually doing it.
And I think like, I, I went on, like, I went on the downward spiral, which was like stepping away
from acting because I suddenly had a massive stage fright. Like I literally could not get on stage
without having like anxiety. I was like, well, this is fucked. This is great. Why has this come
from? Why is this happening? And I think it was like one of those things. So I stepped to behind
the roles and then like what a bunch of my awesome friends encouraged me to like, you know, give bits
and pieces of try projects of myself. And it has helped massively because then when I watch things
back, I'm like, Oh, that's not me. Like that's, I see me, but I don't see me at the same time.
It's like, you don't really see your whole self. You see aspects of you because like, obviously
your physicality and everything, but like there's a lot more than just like the straight mannerisms.
And I feel like also it's, there's something about performing as well, like where you are,
like if you love acting, you always have like people know other actors, like you just know.
And I've, throughout my entire life, everyone's been like, you did acting, didn't you?
Yeah, you were the drama kid in school.
It's like, Oh fuck, I can't hide this. I can't hide this try.
I get that all the time. Like I'd have like lunch with my parents recently and they see me like,
Oh, you're so dramatic. I'm like, I'd hope so. It's my career. Like I need to be like,
it's like, my mom's just like, Oh, you're so dramatic. I'm like, dark thoughts, dark thoughts,
murder. But no, I do, I do agree with that as well. Like, I mean, particularly like
film, like something you really want to go into.
I think so. I think probably a bit of both. Like I, I love theater. I think it's wonderful to be
able to do the same thing every night over and over again. I think there's such a skill in that.
Yeah. But film, I guess has its own, I think because it's quite new to me in my sort of
career of what I've done. I've only ever done sort of theater stuff. And so film is something that
I find fascinating because there is so much more like ability to create a world with obviously
like editing and CGI and what they do these days was like theater has its own, you can create these
worlds on stage, obviously, but there's still like a certain limitation. Like you can't have a live
CGI dragon. But film you can. This new play coming up, actually I have a secret to tell you.
We've got a dragon. I was thinking it's wicked. And you know, like the one on the stage literally
does it for 30 seconds and then just closes. Yeah. Like that's all we have money for.
Budget ran out. Exactly. And I think film is definitely something I'd love to get into. I love
indie film. I think that's really cool. I think it's great. And the end of films that I've seen,
like even those indie films that blow up and become this incredible, like, I think they're
fabulous because they have some, for some reason, just have so much more like grit and humanity to
them and honesty. Like again, like Marvel movies, fantastic, incredible, but like things, like even
like what are some like big company, like dramas. Yeah. Like, um, I use, I make, you have like things
like blue Valentine, which are these like devastatingly like pretty films that just
feel like you're watching humans go through shit or like, um, I mean they were going to,
yeah, exactly. Like Coda and like incredible films. Um, which I think, I think I'm fairly
independent or whatever. I'm not sure, but like Coda is, I mean, like it's interesting because
a lot of these independent films are like a run by big studios. I mean, like, um, but I do agree
with you. I think that in particular, like, um, Ty West is one who I'm watching the, um, Inkeepers
at the moment, which is a great indie film, really good horror, but particularly it's the way it's
shot. You can tell it was like, it was done on a budget. Like it was, what was that film a while
back that was filmed entirely on iPhones and it did really well at some festival. I can't remember
what it was, but I remember seeing, yeah. And I was like, that's fantastic. Like I love that kind
of thing. Like you can have these like, yeah, sort of dramas that are sort of like look like indies,
they're for indies, but then you see the real gritty ones that are made by people who like,
you probably know by three degrees of separation. Those are the ones that I love. Yeah. I'm looking
forward to it with like, yeah, like film and getting into that sort of a lot more is like
doing these sort of like stories that like aren't too disconnected yet by like big companies and
like producers and executive producers being like, no, this is going to make us more money.
They have a lot more freedom to what they want to make. I think it's also like there's pros and
cons to because like, I feel like particularly with like, you know, showmanship, like Blumhouse
pictures and you know, and everything, they're made on a budget, like they're made on a very tight
budget. So that means like everyone kind of earns a very small amount. Like you're just like, here's
your pittance. But I mean, like, I think the thing I love about the industry and particularly
about the indie industry is it's not about the money and how much profit that everyone independently
makes in it. It's how it's received, like how that film is received because if you love the process,
it's always like the thing of, I would love to, you know, 120, 130% on a film that I think is
great and has a good crew, has a good cast. Really everyone's pushing their best efforts and you know,
you know, you might get a sandwich like out of it. Like it's that mentality of just keep pushing
because the ones that I find are less fun and the ones that like, I find that people kind of get
into, and especially in this modern era, where it's going for like, oh, but you know, pay is important.
It's like, well, yeah, but we live in such a capitalistic society that basically like, you
know, it's impossible to be like poor. Exactly. Yeah. I think there's like, like you were saying
that those films where like, you know, that everyone gave their heart and soul into one,
they just feel different when you watch them and they mean something more. Yeah, I agree. Like I'd
rather watch, I'd be in something on a project like that where I've just given everything I can
and maybe had a sandwich or like a free cup of coffee, then have like this big budget film and
be like, I felt so detached the entire time. Because like that is what like, maybe just for
me personally, like my craft is like, yes, it drives me insane. And I will have like, stress
meltdowns like in show week, but I love it. And I will keep doing it again and again and again and
again. And if I don't love it that much, I'm like, I don't really want to do it. Like if it's, it's,
if it's not like, I'm digging my teeth into something incredible that I know that I'm a part
of, like, yeah, it's this weird, like fucked up macabre, like grittiness that actors have,
like, it's always like this obsessive love that we have for the craft, which is why we do it,
because like acting school is grueling. And the career itself is awful. Like you are going to be
very, very financially insecure for a very long time. What's financial security? What?
It's like everyone just goes, Oh, how did you afford all this gear? By not eating. Yeah. Like,
literally, 17 night shift. Like, literally, how you afford anything is just insane. And I think,
I think it's like, you know, I get everyone has an income and stuff, but it is nuts, like,
to how much the expectation, even now, it's like being 30 and trying to make stuff. It's still like,
you're just like, Oh my God, a lot of money has to go into this thing that I don't actually
have that much money. Okay. And everyone's just like, uses you as a wheelhouse to learn skills.
And while that's fantastic in some ways, it's stressing. Oh, it's the entire industry as well.
That everyone's like, what can you do for me with no money involved? But also I want you to teach
me these skills, but I'm not going to. Yeah. It's, it's this horrible cycle. We seem to be stuck in
as artists, obviously, but like, yeah, it's, everyone's just so like, chill with it. Like,
yeah, that's okay. Like I have to work like a 60 hour week in a bar job whilst also doing self
tapes and auditions and all this stuff as well. And I was like, that's normal. Yeah. Is it? I know.
And then it's like, you know, and I feel, you know, it's one of those things, cause like I work a
full time job and even then it's like, my salary does not cover anything that I actually want.
It's like, I live comfortably, but that's about the bare minimum. And I think it's like one of
those things that you basically sacrifice happiness. There's a lot of sacrificing to,
you know, in this industry to make something. And yeah, I think we definitely, we're the people who,
like we work to live, don't live to work. Like it's only way, like once we are working actors,
like that is everything. Yeah. And until like, yeah, you have people that are actors like,
or like any artist, like also watch your survival job until you like this. I'm like,
survival job, I think is hilarious phrase to have as an artist. Like this is what pays the bill. So
I can do this thing that hasn't paid me any money yet, but I really think it's cool. Yeah. And it's
like, it might never pay me. It might never actually. Yeah. But it's like, you know, like,
um, you know, it's, there are so many talented actors out there. And I think, um, particularly,
um, why is the name escape to me? Oh my God. He lives nearby. Wolf Creek. Oh, what's his face?
Not the Wolf Creek murderer guy. Oh, him. I know that when you're talking about, yeah.
Was it like the last time I haven't seen since I was like 12 characters names.
I think he is. Oh my God. But yeah, he wasn't like, he didn't do much until Wolf Creek. No,
he did. He did odd, odd bits and bobs. Um, uh, I live near him. He lives in the area.
That's something that weirded me out about moving to Sydney from a country town. Everyone's like,
yeah, that's like, yeah, Sam Worthington's down the road in my quiet. Yeah. But I mean,
like there's such average people, like when you see them out and about, um, and I think that
you, uh, when you walk around in Sydney and you see all these famous people and then you're just
like, hi, bye. It kind of takes a lot of the shine away from just everyone. And then you watched how
many jobs they actually do and how many like big budget films they do. And then they do independent
films. Like I saw Hugo weaving in a play and I'm like, I see him so often in plays. My best friend
is close family friends with him. And, um, she, like, she was telling me once like, and I had
already seen Samara weaving in a film, like in the babysitter and like my friend just went, oh yeah,
Samara is just in a film. And I'm like, you mean Samara weaving? And it's like, yeah. I was like,
I've seen her films and it's like, oh yeah. What'd you, what'd you think? And I was like, they're
great. All my friends at work are going, she's a mess. But it's like, it's such a disconnect
where you just, you don't have that realization that everyone else knows. And it's the same thing
of when I mentioned some friends and everyone's like, I know that person. I'm like, really?
That's so, yeah. I have a friend of mine who's in a Netflix series and it's so weird because like,
I've only ever known him as just like my mate. And then he's like, yeah, I did a series a while
back. I'm like, oh, when's it coming? I was like, who fucking knows? And it eventually came out and
I was like, yeah, that's just, that's just Jack. That's fine. But then like my partner met him and
he was like, you're the dude from that show. He's like, yeah. I'm like, what's, oh, that's what I
forget. You're an actor, much like I am. It's really weird. He's like, yeah, whatever. It's so
bizarre. Especially having like a lot of friends now, like we have like barbecues, like pies,
every now and then. And just all of us hanging out. So we're all so used to us being just, yeah,
working out. Some of us do really well. Some of us have like a lot of indie like shows and like
plays and TV shows, whatever that is. Then you have that one person who's clearly not part of
the acting scene, who's just sitting at this party freaking out. I think it is the funniest
thing to watch because they're like, you're in this, you're in that. And I'm like, oh yeah.
And I've also seen them with their head in a toilet. I've had too much tequila. I think my
favourite thing about the acting industry as well is it's very incestuous. Yeah. It's like, I think
it's always been like that. There is a list of who's slept with who, who's made out with who.
It is a lot. The first bit of advice I got in acting school was don't sleep together.
And I was like, oh, okay. And I've stuck to that rule. I've done really well. I think it took me
to like, yeah, like Evans, like wait until like just at least third year. I'm like, okay, fine.
But then like third year came around, we're all like, all right guys, we've done our time.
We can all touch each other. But yeah. And then also I think probably worked better for us is we
had to go into lockdown. So we're like, oh, we can't touch anyone. But it's like the thing like
every single year at acting school, they're like, don't sleep together yet. Just wait.
I know. It's very like determined. It's so funny. Like these tired teachers there with like a
cigarette in their hand, like please just don't. And I'm like, oh, why? And then you say, you're
like, oh my God. Yeah. And then the drama ensues. Like, um, I think it's worse when you actually
work with people. Like I, I literally worked with, um, I ended up sleeping with two people I worked
with and I was like, I don't know if that's worse. Like, I don't, I don't know if it's like, you know,
as bad as in, you know, like uni as it is in like, because when you work with people and you're all
employed, you're like, yeah. And then it's just like, everyone has these conversations and opinions
and you're like, but I do think that as, as performers and stuff, we very, I think we get
very used to like seeing each other, like especially because I think that, you know,
like they talk about, you know, um, uh, intimacy coordinators and stuff like that. But I do think
there's an element where we're all very comfortable, you know, depending on, but a lot of, there was a
lot more actors who are very comfortable with just being like, cool. What do you want them to do?
Okay, cool. I'll talk to this person. And you used to kind of being your own intimacy coordinator
until like recently. Yeah. Cause we have to be so okay with vulnerability all the time. Like that's
probably why we're all so like incestuous and so okay with each other. It's like, like I've seen
the darker sides of you in an exercise or a rehearsal room. And it's like, I feel like, yeah,
we all bond very, very quickly. Like I did the same thing with like, like the last play I did
before I went to acting school was like, yeah, like talking with my castmates. And we like
went for a glass of wine and like, it's probably our first meeting and then we're discussing
everything thing. So in depth, because we just have to be so available for vulnerability with
everyone you have. Um, didn't sleep together. She was a married woman with two children who
were very cute, but I was like, no, it's okay. I'll let you, she's the one who got away.
The only one.
No, she was the one actually who inspired me to go to my current acting school, which is actor
center Australia. Yeah. She said, you should check it out. That's where I went. And I'm like,
well, I think you're a good actor. So clearly that's a good thing. I was trying. Um, but yeah,
like that, we were just discussing it the other day, like that sort of ability and readiness to
be, yeah, like vulnerable. And then also to receive that vulnerability, I think is a skill
that like specifically actors have, which is so like, I, yeah, you go, like, I know a couple of
lawyers in the office room and ask them to do the same thing. They'd freak out. They'd be crying,
throwing up and ripping their hair out. Like, no, that's horrible. Why would you do that? I'm like,
it's just part of the job. Yeah. I think it's also like, we just, you know, we're very kind of
throw yourself in it and, um, be ready to fail type. Yeah. And I think it's just like, you know,
particularly when you write, you know, when you write stories or you sort of conjure up scenes,
um, you just kind of just go and there's always talk, like I think, um, and you just go, okay,
well, how do you feel about this? How do you feel like that when you open the conversation,
I feel like it's the worst when people don't voice conversations though, because then I feel like,
you know, people just leave it to the interpretation in which case is where you fall into the negative
traps. Like you fall into those, no one raised an opinion. So therefore it's like, oh, but I didn't
consent. And so, well, you know, like, unfortunately, according to this legal document,
we signed, you said, yes. So you can't like this, I get from lawyers' perspectives and I get from
all these things of like, we do sign contracts, we do like agree to things, but then we've also
got to be upfront from the get go. And I think that like, not while you and I particularly are
very honest people, I don't think that comes naturally to all actors. It's very kind of like,
oh, I've got a barrier. And you will never like know this other side of me. And I think it's just
such a limiting things. Like, obviously, you can have your secrets and your privacy to certain
aspects of your life. That's understandable. But like, what you can be secret and private.
Yeah, sometimes you don't have to overshare. Like, who knew? But there's some people I've met,
like, who are just like so closed off. Yeah. And not even in like a like a mysterious way,
they're just impossible to talk to. Like, not even like some, like some I've met who were in
acting school, like you'd be like, Oh, hey, how are you? Like, I'm like, wow, you must be so fun
at parties. But I think that ability to like, obviously, like, keep yourself protected and
have those barriers you need. Like, I still have like certain ones that I'm like, yeah, we'll keep
that here if I need to. People who just become so like, and maybe it is shyness, or maybe it's just
this like, I refuse to open up, which is such a toxic thing to trap yourself in as well. Like,
I just I worry and I feel sorry for those kind of people. Because I'm like, what like what happened
for you to become so closed? Yeah. And then like, and even Yeah, I think with acting, and especially
myself as an actor, like I definitely have different little masks that I put on every day,
like I'm incredibly like, ambivert type person, like after a big day, like I love socializing,
but I have to then spend like a good time to like just decompress and have my space. And everyone's
like, Hey, can we hang out? This is not a this rose day. This is a this rose day where I need to
be inside. But like, I think I need to just touch my carpet and be on the ground. I've done a lot.
But I think yeah, I think acting, I love the most because it helped me to sort of
learn how to put on different different acts in everyday life if I need to, which is something
because I used to be like a very insecure, frantic person who would just run around and blurt,
like everything. Yeah, all the times I'm like, I don't know what's acceptable to say what's not,
how do I socialize with each group? Because I was like a very sort of not quite a social
reject in high school, but like I would mold if I have to type thing. And I think acting helped me
like the reason I probably loved it so much is I could put on a mask that I wanted enough until
I could figure out who I was and what I wanted to fit into. And once I was comfortable enough
and like figuring out all this behind the scenes, I could then like bring it out and be like, this
is who I am. I have confidence now. If I can jump on stage and pretend to be a rabbit, I can do
whatever I want type thing. Because yeah, like you've ever done an animal class. Yeah, and you're
like, oh, I'm pretending to be a bear shitting in a corner. I think my favorite is like doing frogs
and like jumping around. You can never embarrass me because I've already done to myself. Yeah,
it's like it's literally like, you know, I used to dance in public and do little grooves to music
in the shopping mall. I was so cool. And I did that all the time. And everyone was like,
aren't you embarrassed? I'm like, no, I have no shame. There's nothing you can take from me.
Yeah, it's literally like I couldn't give a shit. But I mean, like, I do agree with you as well,
because I completely relate to that sort of putting on a mask in high school as well. I was
like incredibly anxious and insecure. And I think in particular for me, that was what appealed to me
about acting and as well. And I think I'm going into it now as an adult. It was like, you know,
it's one of those things that creating is all I know. And it's like something I love so much.
So if someone was like, I'm going to take this away from you. I'd be like miserable.
Yeah, exactly. Like your world falls apart. Yeah, what is like it's I think the ability
that humans have in general to be able to create to put things into this world is fascinating. Like,
it's such a gift that we have like it's not just with like, creating art, like obviously,
we have people who create incredible maths equations that then get us into I know, space,
I don't know, maths very well. I'm assuming that's what happened. Like, we have, yeah,
I'm like, this is how maths works. But I just really want someone on a chart to write
maths, space, space travel down the line somewhere. Well, it's part of human nature to yet to be able
to create and stuff like that. Like, the way that humans come is from like, we create an egg that
then the little egg gets good. Yeah, that's everything we do is creating. And I think it's
so important that we like people who like, you have the occasional person who's like, oh, like,
you know, acting or like, art's not a real career. I'm like, and how like, what would you do without
the arts? Like, I mean, the Liberal government thought that and roads and transport as well.
They can all get far. Yeah, I'm much more of a labor supporter, because they at least believe
in things. They have a knowledge of many things. But it's, I do agree with that. And I think like,
the arts in particular, and especially just like in terms of mental health, and there was something
actually, I think I loved recently, I was listening to an audio, Dr. Adventure, it was Christopher
Ecclestone saying in this interview, because he had for many years, his own mental health, he stepped
away from the show, he stepped away, didn't want anything to do with the show for 15 years, and
then decided to come back and do audio and, and go to fan conventions. And realistically, it was
the fan conventions that convinced him to do the audio. So it was like, because he got all this
positive feedback of kids with their own mental health issues going, I loved you, you were my
doctor, you were this, that and the other. And as an as someone who kind of knew the cultural impact,
but then he saw it firsthand, he was like, this is amazing. Like this is, I'm giving kids who I
felt like when I was young, and I didn't know, and I was repressed with it. And like, I had a, you
know, like a great parents, but you know, I just didn't know how to deal with him myself, because
of where I grew up. Now seeing kids come into his life, and I'm like, that's fantastic. And he's so
much more enthused about life because, and it's the same, like we, I guess the thing that I always
find fascinating is when we are a fan of something, and when we sort of like, hold on to that fandom,
of like, whether it's, you know, Doctor Who, whether it's D&D, whether it's Pokemon, like,
whether it's Harry Potter, if you cling to it, like, other than the transphobic JK,
she's temperamental. She's awful. She's problematic. And I don't understand why she thought that
wizards shit in their robes and their magic get away. No idea. Why? Out of all the things in a
magical world you could create, that is something like, what about like a spell that can cure
a childhood cancer? No, just wizards shit in their robes and magic get away. Good Lord, JK. Honey,
the author of her own downfall. Like, I know it's great. But I mean, like, you know, this is the
same person who wrote it on a like toilet roll and you know, so it's like the value. Oh my God.
I just, I love it so much. And I think that, but when you're a fan of these things, like,
you do grow up and I think it really kind of harnesses a nature and, you know, and without
the arts, particularly in Australia, you know, like people talk about sports being the main
obstacle of Australia and like, we're all celebrating sports. But I'm like, during the
pandemic, I literally watched more TV than ever before. Well, that's the thing. Like, yeah, when
you people are all stuck in like pandemics, like zone, like the arts were everything to you. Like,
you've been to everything on Netflix and now you're begging us to create more. Like,
and I think that's probably why it's probably like some of the best time to be an actor at the
moment. It's like we're entering this new Renaissance of like people need content.
Yeah. It just reminds me of that Bo Burnham song. Like I made you some content. This is just us at
the moment. Everyone's like, we're so hungry for new things to go on and actors are there and like,
and producers writers and everything. I'm like, oh shit, we need to fill this supply demand.
Bo Burnham's incredible. I watched that towards the end of lockdown. Thank God. But I was sort
of like used to it. I think if I watched it a little bit earlier, I'd be like, oh, how am I miserable?
This is me. Yeah. I love it. I thought that was a fantastic. Yeah. Just amazing show. I think it
was very funny. Had this like, yeah, incredible. Like the welcome to the internet song I thought
was so good. It's just a bouncy fun song, but full of so many dark lyrics, I think, which was
my entire mentality during lockdown. Like I was slowly losing my mind with streamers going around
my head. Like that was entirely, I'm like, I'm going to write a short film or I started writing
a novel in lockdown because I was like, I've got nothing else to do. I started, I got to the novel
because I'd had like a wine subscription with my housemate. We tried that. I'm like, I'm bored of
wine now. I'm going to draw a comic book. I'm like, I'm bored of that. I'm going to write a novel.
And I started writing it and it's just sitting there. I'm about like a book and a half in now.
So it's a saga of plans. Oh, sorry. I was wondering, it's like you said novel, sorry, novels.
I've written the first novel and then I started the second one. I'm like, how did I get, like,
where is this like obsessive hyper-focused creativity now? But it's, it's, that's the
weirdest thing. I've got so many like intrigued things about your mind that I'm posting up.
If I can't do things, like I have to be, yeah, I have to be creative. I cannot think and sit still
with my own thoughts. Otherwise I think my brain would explode because I'd have all these ideas.
Yeah. It sort of leaks out of your eyes. Yeah. Like I need to do something with this,
which is awful. Yeah. If I don't, I'll start writing a horrible book like JK Rowling,
which I don't know what happened. I turned to dark shadow Rose. I'm like, oh no.
What do you mean? You make three fantastic beast films and you suddenly realize you're a seller.
How can I milk this? I mean, also though, The Cursed Child,
someone told me to watch that before they told me it was shit. I haven't seen it. Is it really?
I've heard very mixed reviews. It's just, it's fanfic. It's really fanfic. And I think also,
I love the Harry Potter books. Actually, like we, we binge watched all the movies not that long ago
and the first, the first four are great. The first four are fantastic. Love them. Um, the more they
get depressing and dark, the less exciting they are. I think they just get too real.
Like, yeah, you're like, no, with the wizards who ship their robes, like bring them back.
And I just think that also it was one of those film franchises that had so many different directors
that yeah, I didn't notice that, which I found really weird and just, yeah.
Cause the moment David Yates took over, he's just directed it ever since. Like he has been the
primary director of Harry Potter now, but yeah, like when we were watching Fantastic Beasts and
I was like, all right, we're going to just watch the first one and the rest of them suck. Like,
and it's the only one I own. Cause I watched the second one and I was like, oh yeah, this is
Johnny Depp just talking about war for two hours. And then the third one I haven't even seen. And
it's just Matt Mickelson just doing the same shit. Yeah. I haven't seen the third one. And I'm like,
I quite enjoyed the first one. I thought it was quite quirky. And my guess is pretty like
cool. Like the spin-off that's very, very interesting that they've done well and sort
of keeping that sort of essence of what the maybe like the second, like the third and fourth film
sort of had. But do you, do you realize how little plot it actually has? Yes. And I was like,
give me the cool animals. They're groovy. It's like literally just, just Eddie Redmayne as Newt
is just going around town and just going, I'm saving the animals. I'm doing weird dances.
It's planet earth for wizards. And I think, yeah, just like watching it now and then like
watching it when it tries to be a serious like reflection of world war two.
And like, no, you make the talking little platypus thing.
No, I don't give a shit. Like, yeah, give me the cute thing.
And I think, yeah, it's just, it's also just, I guess, a testament of them trying to hold on
to nostalgia because the first film came out into that, like, I think that's the thing I love and
hate about nostalgia at the moment, particularly because we are so overmelted at the moment.
Yeah. And I was just like, I was, I particularly, I love, I loved the first season of Stranger
Things. And I am less of a fan the longer it's going on. And the reason is because when you sort
of have a prime thing, especially like Stranger Things, where it starts off really well and it's
really strong and all the way through and it has really kind of a first season narrative close.
And that's it. Like you don't really need a second season to explain more. You could just be like
ambiguous ending called. Which is always really fun and really interesting because the imagination
is so much more powerful than anything you can write down. Like, yeah, but then I feel like it's
relied too heavily on the actor's cuteness. And then now that they're not cute, some of them cannot
act. I know that most people say, who are these lanky string beans? And I just think that also,
like, I think it's trying to be a show which is darker. And then, you know, like, my cousins,
and I think like one of my cousin's kids who's non-binary, they, they had like 12 and they're
just like watching it. And I'm like, how are you watching this at 12? Like literally half of the
people are just getting ripped apart. And you're like, you have, you're fucked in the head.
So desensitized. Yeah. Oh my God. But I remember watching that when I was like little, and I was
like, oh my God, this is fucking terrifying. But you don't, you don't get that level. And I think
like content with it, like I, I, you know, like we talk about creating stuff, but I feel like that
stuff is wholly based on nostalgia. And that's like what, you know, like with Disney live action
remakes and everything, everything is just going back to this nostalgia. Like I, and have you noticed
like every show is, you know, like there was a great queer show that came out on Amazon prime
called paper girls and it's a literally an independent show, not done and everyone compared
it to Stranger Things. Someone they travel into the future. I mean, yeah, that's on my list. It looks
really good. And they canceled it after one season. What? Because everyone compared it to Stranger
Things. I was like, this is the teenagers on bikes. It's teenagers on bikes. They live in the 80s.
And it was really, was it not a thing like Stranger Things? It's just it. Yeah. And it's just like,
it shits me because that when new shows and good content, especially like queer content, which,
yeah, you know, like Stranger Things, I'm sorry. It's not that queer. It's queer baiting. It's
queer baiting, but Maya Hawke is the only and honestly gorgeous, very queer. I secretly think
she's very gay. Is she not gay? I know. I don't think she is. I think she's bi. She's got to be
bi. Yeah. Cause there is, there is too many like where the parents work. We can tell.
Yeah. She's so gay. But I mean, like, yeah, I, I watch it and I just go, yeah, this is not,
this is fun, but this is not kind of opening up, but like, there's no like awakening. And I feel
like a lot of it actually tends to, you know, not actually be that clever writing. It kind of writes
you into narrative holes. And then, um, I find like with paper girls and especially like Harry,
you know, like Harry Potter didn't have a lot of, you know, like Dumbledore was gay apparently,
but you know, not until years later. And he's really not like in the original series, he was
not gay at all. Like it was just some old creepy dude telling Harry what to do. But I feel like
with, you know, things we're trying to, you know, like modern, um, modern shows are actually much
better at like identifying people as queer and not being a prominent aspect of who they are.
There's something I love about just, um, like just watching a queer film or queer story, we're just,
it's just, that's not that, yeah, their main thing. Like just they have nice things happen.
Like it's just generally like, it's just, it's like, like they're the same as their name. That
just happens to be who they are. It's fine. I just, I need to see more of that. I think it's
not enough of it. Like I'm so sick of seeing film and television. Like, oh, they're queer and that's
the hardest thing in their life. And I'm like, well, we know, like, was that, that's like,
sometimes we want to go watch a film or a movie or something like that and have that sort of
level of escapism where we don't have to be completely like reflected with what's going on
in our current lives. Um, but yeah, it's just fun to watch it. I mean, queer, that's cool.
Yeah, nothing bad happened. No one got hate-crimed for fuck's sake. Like it's fantastic.
It's like no one got shunned for them. But it was like the same, I think what I loved particularly,
I don't know if you've seen Umbrella Academy, which I love Umbrella Academy and season three,
like season three just built on season two. But I do love that when Vanya became Victor
and that transition was just so flawless. It was just like a conversation. Okay. And all the
siblings were like, yeah, whatever. Cool. Let's move on. Like we've got actual shit to do.
There are more important things. And then the name was never dropped. And I was like,
I was like, this is the most important thing. And I also particularly liked the relation
that Victor had with Alison because then that built on, uh, you know, essentially the problem
with being trans wasn't the issue as the problem was like, you know, Alison's life being taken away.
But Victor was kind of like confused as well as like, what have I done wrong? Is it this,
is it that? What like, and there's a whole identity crisis as well going on. And so he's going
through his own inner turmoil. And I love that because you had that sibling, you know, um,
like rivalry develop out of it. And I think the shot, like it's just, it's very clear cut,
like show it, it really doesn't like push an agenda. It just pushes how people feel.
Yeah. And that's what I love about it because when you, when shows, particularly like as
performers and writers and actors, we don't always want to push an agenda. No, not at all. It's like,
yeah, I think it's so fun to watch it. Like umbrella Academy works so well because all these
people, these actors are just so truthful within their given circumstances, which is like what the
world is ending. They're so human and so like, they play siblings so well. I think it's so funny
to watch them all bickering away whilst also like having these incredible things happen. And like,
there's nothing worse than like, you're putting a play on your bike. It's about the oppression
and you're like, Oh, how do we like do this in that way? Like you have to like, it's,
it's not just fun to make art for art. Like it's great. Like we, I just did a play Cloud Nine by
Carol Churchill, which has like a lot of different topics in it. Like we have like gender identity,
like the patriarchy and like what it's done to like modern gender identity and stuff like that.
And like queer relationships or like how, like a character I played, how like she's escaped this
very, very like awfully oppressive patriarchal marriage and now she's on her own and how she
like has to figure out who she is without a man and like what her self worth is. Is it all about
us discovering yourself? There's no sort of like specific ending or specific point or like thing
that we're trying to press or like prove with this play. It's just about these topics. And then
these are things that pop up. Like there's like a gay relationship, which then like turns into a
trans relationship. Like it's always interesting things. Like one character comes out as trans,
halfway through and nothing sort of said, it's just like, okay, cool. That's, that's that character
now. Cool. And it's all these different things. This play was written in the seventies and it was
amazing that it's still so important today and so relevant today. And I think, yeah, like afterwards
I was outside and like talking to everyone after the show. I'm like, Hey, how are you? Like, what
was it about? I'm like, what do you think it was about? And they're like, Oh, this is not, I'm like,
that's it. Cool. Like that's what showed out to you. That's important. That's what it's for.
And I think, yeah, like I love theater. That's like, hasn't got like a big point, but it has
people asking questions and talking afterwards. That's what's there for. I think it's like,
what's really important for is like, yeah, getting people to address these things and have
conversations with themselves and like other people be like, what do you think it was? And
that's sort of how you get that sort of cycle of creation is like sort of how do we better understand
these things. If you saw that and then I saw this in it, like, why didn't we see, I think it's
interesting. I think, I think a hundred percent. And I feel like a lot of people kind of forget
that, you know, like when they watch, when you watch plays and you go like, and you just kind
of see it from a subjective point of view and like, Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Like interesting
lighting. Yeah. Yeah. That was like two hours of my time that I really liked. Yeah, exactly.
But then I think subjective like in internally in the, in the structure of it. Yeah, I do agree.
And I love the fact that plays do last the testament of time. Like, you know, it just
Charles Churchill's, especially one of those writers who just has the effect that ability to
write things that are so important. Well, it's like, um, uh, particularly like Margaret Atwood,
um, and she's just written so many like, uh, stellar books. Um, and you know, like the hand
mounds tale is particularly one of it, but, um, you know, it's interesting as well, because I was
thinking that way. Um, and I just think that particularly with women's, women's issues and,
and the political turnbuck, everyone, the moment like Trump was elected, everyone just thought of
that with the hand laser. Yeah. It was like, it was so relevant. It wasn't like this thing in the
past or this thing in the future. It was like such a relevant time. And I think, um, you know, a lot
of those things that we sort of think are really, um, you know, like, um, you know, like, um, you
know, abuse or like, um, sexual discrimination or identity and everything like, and, uh, you know,
it's so non-tulant the processed in these sort of plays that people write. They're like so many
years ago. I literally watched, what was it? Um, gaslight, the movie, the 1944 gaslight movie.
Yeah. Great film. And you watch it and you just go, actually this is fucked because so many levels
of that fan. I recommend anyone go and watch it because it's one of those films that when you do
watch it, you're like, well, how the hell was this like, you know, this is so forward thinking in the
terms of the women coming out the forefront and she's the, she actually wins this. She didn't lose
and he's the villain. And it's just so well done comparatively to when it was in a time when men
were normally the heroes. And I was like, this is a clever play. And I just even thought when I was
watching it, I was like, how is this play, you know, like written in like, and it was written
in the 18, like 1910s, like it was that long ago. It's like the doll's house by Ibsen as well. Like
these days, like obviously it isn't quite as shocking because she leaves at the end, but like
back then everyone's like, she, like, how does she leave the children? But now we're like, yeah,
good for her. Which is, I think especially plays like that, that was so progressive for their time.
And so it's so funny to watch them not become shocking anymore and how to properly put them on.
Like, how do I have this play about this woman who's like stuck in this horrible marriage who then
leaves? Like, how do I have that same shock factor? I was discussing the day after like doing this
Carol Churchill play. I'm like, what's another play that was written way above its time is yeah,
like the doll's house. Incredible. I think it was wonderful. And it's yeah, it's so interesting to
watch it because obviously it's still like a fantastic play and the ending still like, oh cool,
completely different reaction from what it was when it was originally. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's
just, yeah, so interesting. And like, it makes me, cause it's yet Ibsen written by man and then
it's like, oh, what? Like it's such a, I wonder. Yeah. Like in a way, like, cause obviously art
sometimes in creating is like people's way of processing certain things. I wonder what like
things were going on underneath in the writing of these plays. Yeah. I think, I think a lot of it
comes to just not feeling like you're actually a part of your own time. And I think a lot of these,
I also think a lot of these writers probably had very difficult times actually in their own lives
when they were alive, um, writing these plays and putting them on and getting shunned probably,
even though they were probably well received, they would get the other side of the coin,
which was people get, you know, cause it's so common even to this day where you sort of read
articles of like, how dare we sort of push an agenda. And it's like, we still literally just
talked about like not liking to push agendas, but like, even if you do it subtly, like you're like,
oh, these characters are gay. Like, and, and suddenly there will be in a turmoil or like,
you know, like, um, and I think, you know, and I, as much as I love the community,
like the queer community, there was a lot of inner turmoil within it. Absolutely. And you know,
and it like, you would probably encounter this as well, but you know, being a bisexual, it's just,
there was a lot of bi erasure. Bi erasure and like the bisexual versus pansexual thing. I think it's
ridiculous. But yeah, bi erasure I think is something I just, it's so silly. It's so, cause
I was like, it's a phase. I'm like, well, what a wonderful phase to have. Discover yourself though.
Like it's, yeah. Just to utilize it. Yeah, exactly. And I think I was, yeah, I love the idea of like,
someone saying something's a phase. I'm like, well, you should have many phases in your life anyway.
Like even if it is a phase or if it is like, just, this is your sexuality. Like you could have a
phase where you're interested into like classical music or a phase where you only eat broccoli.
Like that's just part of what you are. And like, I think using that as an insult is the dumbest
thing. Yeah. It's yeah. But I think, yeah, definitely bi erasure is ridiculous. Yeah. And
it doesn't make any sense. Like, did you, did you ever feel like that was kind of something that,
you know, people try and attack you with as well? Well, I didn't know I was bisexual because I didn't
know it was a thing until I was maybe like 17 or 18. I get popped up on Tumblr and I was like,
what? Cause yeah, I think it was, I think it was something horrific, like some Hobbit fan fiction
or something. And I, and I was like, what a way to discover a sexuality. To be like, there's a word
for this. And it's in the Hobbit. Yeah. It was like, yeah. Someone was writing some Frodo, no,
Bill way Baggins fan fiction where he was, I don't know, sleeping with a woman and then one of the
dwarves and he's like, yeah, bisexual fans. I'm like, what is this? What is, what is, what is
Bill way up to? I'm pretty sure that Bill was just interspecies. Bill was just a monster.
Oh my God. Yeah. Photo watch out.
Oh my God. He's got it somewhere. Yeah. No, like finding bisexuality. Like I didn't know it was a
thing. Like people would be like, oh yeah. Like they're doing like, I remember like it was maybe
like I, my early teens were doing like when like American pie was huge and everyone's like, it's
like their sexy phase. Like girls go through that phase where they like to make out with other girls.
And I'm like, cause it's fun and it's awesome. And it was like the best feeling in the world.
Yeah. I'm like, have you not kissed a guy? Like why the fuck would we not be kissing girls? Like
girls are amazing. Um, and I guess boys are there, but like, I was like, really cool. Um,
my poor boyfriend, he's so patient. He's like, this is my girlfriend and my girlfriend's wife.
Um, it was like me and my best friend. He's like, I'm just here to be, yeah, I'm happy.
I mean, I mean like, you know, when that scale of everyone's like, how like bi are you?
Yeah. How much percentage? Yeah. I'm literally goes with seasons. It really does.
It depends. Like if they look what they can kill me, I'm down. Like I'm down bad.
You're just like, if they can murder my soul.
Exactly. If they look like a vampire or a werewolf or someone, like maybe a pirate. I'm like,
what is up? Like how are we? That is my type. My type is like the roguish romance interest from
like some shitty smart book. I'm like, that is, oh man, woman in between. How realistically is
this being with the partners you've had? Oh, recently pretty good. Like my current partner,
Hugo, love him so much. He looks like this werewolf mixed pirate man. Like he has like earrings,
pale necklaces, beautiful rings. Like his shirt's always just too many buttons undone and he floats
into a room. And I'm like, that one, that one him. It's just very funny. Like friends of me,
they're like, you're dating a pirate. I'm like, yeah, I'm so happy about it.
Cause he just sees his hair like really tall. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sweating. I've knocked my
mic. Really tall, really like a hairy man. And I'm like, oh my God. Wow.
Did you literally like faint when you first saw him?
No, I was, I was so like, I, I'm really bad at like not knowing how to like handle with like,
so I just clenched my jaw really hard and he was like, hi. I'm like, sup.
I was really standoffish as I didn't know how to handle what I was feeling, which was lust,
but I didn't know that. I was like, oh my God. Like, I don't know if I want to be with you or
be you. Like you're such a cool looking person. Um, yeah, eventually we started dating. Finally,
like I eventually got the balls to ask him out and be like, I'm going to be, I was 12 to hear the
shots. David, I mean, I want to be your girlfriend. He's like, yeah, cool. I'm like, oh, okay. Cool.
Fantastic. And then the shy Rose comes out and you're like, fuck. I was like, what have I done?
That's quite wholesome though. It's very, it were, yeah, a very wholesome,
compared to the chaos of each of our individual lives. Like we're very awesome people as a couple
despite like how we first like handled each other's like attraction to each other. Like
to this day, he still gets quite like, I swear if he was an anime character, he'd have like the
bursting nose bleed like of just like freaking out at his girlfriend all the time. Cause he's like,
oh my God, she's really pretty. I'm like, we're literally dating. He's like, what? It's fantastic.
It's really humbling. Um, it's sweet. We keep each other humble. So we forget that like
we're dating. We're like this, that man over there, what's up? How are you doing? He's like,
hi honey. I'm like, me honey. Oh, that's great. That's deep level attraction. Right. Yeah. I
think we just, yeah, we fan girl over each other all the time. It's fantastic. Yeah.
What I'm actually sensing is a lot of lust as you say.
We definitely keep the love alive by like just being just so damn bad for each other.
That we're like really cool. And because it took us so long to figure out like, like it took me so
long to ask, like it, yeah, just must stop the car, just ask him out. Like it was like a good,
like maybe a year of like courting and long glances and like sort of like, I don't know
if you like me like that one. Each of us a little like screaming into our pillows being like, they're
so hot. And then we figured it out eventually. And so now it's like this really nice relationship
of just like two goblins in trench coats running around. I love that. Yeah. It's sweet.
So if anyone wants to go to this backwards reality, I just feel like it's like I've literally
been watching X-Files the last few weeks. So all I'm imagining is you and your partner just like
walking around in the street and just being like the aliens. Okay. It's like, okay.
Hey.
Cause the best they told me to stand out like weirdos.
Oh my God. Um, I do want to wrap this up before, um, before I do though, I want to talk a little
bit about social media. Um, and your thoughts in a minute, are you an active social person or
are you terrible? I think I am. I enjoy it. I guess fun. Like I know a lot of people who get
really anxious about like my sister is like riddled with anxiety towards social media. I,
not so much. I love it. I think it's really fun. Um, I guess it's a great way to sort of get in
touch with people because I have a lot of friends who like international or like you said earlier,
like, yeah, we have like a lot of Facebook friends we don't know, but we think are really
interesting. Like it's just a way to connect more with people. And I think, yeah, I just love it.
I think it's great. I think it's like, I obviously waste spend way too much screen time. Um, but yeah,
I'm like, yeah, right here. But like all my like Instagram feed is like duck videos and like
aesthetic cottage core places. And I'm like, I think it's great because you can sort of feed these
interests you have like all the time. You can keep that. Yeah. Um, I don't use Facebook too much
because it's just getting a bit too like people. I went to high school with having kids and getting
married and like all these moms and like, it's getting a bit too Sharon for me. And I'm like,
no, just back to you. I mainly get Instagram person or a tick tock. I watch tick tock way too
much. Oh my God. But yeah, social media. I can't help you there. There's a therapy session. I
love it. I think it's so funny. And I think especially after like lockdown, it was like how
people like had their access to the world was like through social media. Um, so I think, I think it's
a very powerful thing. I have to be careful with it because it's, it can be very, very dangerous.
Like I remember when I was a kid watching horrible videos on YouTube that just have mentally scarred
me for years. Like there's so many out there that like the deep web. Yeah. Like the Reddit and it's
prime days. Oh my God. Yes. So many horrific videos. I'm like, okay, that's going to leave a
mark. Do you remember that webpage? Actually the one I remember, which was if you keep scrolling,
you saw worse and worse images. Yeah. And I remember I got to public image five and it was
like some guy dead on the head. Yeah. I was like, I was like, this is childhood. Exactly. I'm like,
yeah, what was your, like watching horrific videos on the internet? Like, yes, I'm being beheaded
or like, oh, there's so many other like to trigger an entire generation. The two girls, one cup meme.
Do you remember that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's like the depths of like the internet. I'm like,
how did I get here? And why did someone let me get there? It was an arm blue waffle. Oh yeah. That
was another horrible one. Yeah. Like you just sit there in the computer labs, like Google this. And
then the teacher would be like, what are you looking at? You're like, Oh my God, no, my friend
told me to look at it. It's just like, so horrifying. You sit there like late at night and you're like,
Oh God, what have I done? How do I erase the history? Am I going to die in your sleep?
Are my parents going to know? Oh, the worst ones were the emails that you're mysterious. Yeah. And
if you don't respond to some killer thing is going to get you. Those were the old days of social
media. That was just so much more threatening. Now these days, I'm like, that's a really cute fluffy
cow. But like I was there in the dark days. I remember it. Like the email change that would
go around. Oh, they were hilarious. I just feel like everyone now is missing out on what was good
child. I'm like some kids haven't seen the exorcist face run towards them really fast.
Like after playing a maze game or something, or like, do you remember that video of like the car
driving down like a windy road and then there was this massive like jump scare zombie that jumped
up. Yeah. Yeah. I just like, there ain't that shit around anymore. And I think people need to see it
a lot more. I feel like people need to be broken. Yeah. I think people aren't quite traumatized
enough anymore. They need to know how dangerous the internet is. This is how you get reminded.
Yeah. And then when you got into the real world, like I have never fallen for a scam because I know
what to look for. Cause I know how hard it was. Like I can recognize a chain email now. It's fine.
Especially recognize emails that are sending them from my own account.
You know, like when they, they'd say like it's from you and it's like, how's this work?
Um, but I'm going to wrap it up here. Uh, Rose, I'm going to get you to tell everyone on the
internet, um, where they can find you and where they can stalk you. Yes. Okay. So you can,
like, what is my Instagram name? You can find me on Instagram. Um, my name is Rosalini underscore
tortellini. I think yes. That is my Instagram. Um, of all my acting endeavors and memes that I share
at midnight after hours of not sleeping. It's a fun time. Yeah. I love it. Go and follow her on
Instagram. Is it like, it's a public account? Yeah, it is. Absolutely. Yeah. You'll see updates on
all my shows and stuff that I do. And then the occasional wine dinner. Look at me. I'm drinking
fancy wine and then I can give you one recommendations if you want. So yeah, ask, ask one advice.
Yeah. No, that was the thing. Yeah. No, I'm just tired of working as a, on the wine team at work.
Very exciting. Yeah. I'll ask you all the opinions then. Cause I have a wine. I have a wine subscription.
Oh, do you use good per days? Yeah. I really like them. They're really cool. They are delicious.
I like the freebies that you get. Yeah. More toys and treats. But then sometimes they send
you the same one. You're like, I already have this. I need another Esky. It's like, this is useless to
me. Um, but thank you so much for joining. Thank you for having me for this just chaotic discussion.
It's been a chaotic hour and I loved every minute of it. Um, if you want to go and listen to more
chaotic interviews that I've done in the past, please go and check them out on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later. Goodbye.