This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental
health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.
Today I've got my special guest and friend, Freya Moore.
Hello.
How are you?
Yeah, not bad.
You know.
Just, just living the, living life.
Oh yeah.
Every day.
Um, so Freya, for the people of the internet, the wonderful people, you know, not just friends
and family, people who don't know you.
Tell everyone on the internet who you are and what you do.
I am an actor and performer and I don't want to say artist because that's kind of cringey.
Um, I don't know, I sing, I act, I don't dance.
I love to be on stage.
Um, and I just finished studying acting at NIDA.
Um, so obviously I work in retail.
Um.
You're selling the highest really.
Yeah.
It's really great.
No, I've been busy.
It's good.
Um, but yeah, I'd say I'm primarily an actor.
Yeah.
You've said, you, you're kind of a little bit of an entrepreneur though.
Oh.
In some ways, have you seen your, like your, your profiles?
You're like, oh, from an outwards perspective, yeah, I guess.
Um, do you, do you see, I guess the, the, that you sort of perceive you like as an outward
perspective that people can consider you were quite a serious kind of actor kind of person
and performer and stuff, or is it kind of still a bit all new?
I think, I mean, I've been doing it for a while.
I wouldn't say I've been doing it professionally for a while.
I wouldn't say that I was professional until I got my qualification.
Yeah.
And I think that's a fair statement.
Um, but I've just been like doing it since then.
I'm still young and you kind of, you need to have an amount of maturity and professionalism
to work in this kind of industry when you are young.
Otherwise you will get stomped on.
And eaten.
Yes.
Yeah.
Have you, have you sort of felt that already?
Like in just in the last few years of doing stuff?
Felt what specifically?
Yeah, like the feeling of being stomped on or?
I mean, sometimes, um, but like every experience you kind of learn from and you know, you figure
out ways that maybe you could have handled things better or you start to recognise where
people treat people differently and where work relationship changes and evolves.
Yeah.
Cause I guess that must be in the sort of back corner of your mind constantly to be
like, okay, this has to be a work relationship and this can't be like anything more.
Like are you constantly very vigilant of, you know, that whole separation of work and
life outside?
I mean, I, I think it's hard because it, I tend to, I mean, I think most people do tend
to get quite close with cast mates and stuff because you spend so much time together and
what you're doing is generally speaking, very vulnerable.
Um, and you know, obviously just in life, you get along with some people more than others.
Um, but I think it's more so, you know, like putting your foot down when you are not happy
with something and just kind of like being like, I don't, I know we're friends, um,
but like we still need to be professional and that means speaking to people in a certain
way and not kind of expecting things of others.
And yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.
That does make sense.
I mean, you, we walk a fine line with this industry in particular, because it is very
easy to make friends, but it's also very easy to make enemies.
Oh yeah.
Yes.
I mean, like, um, it's very much wax I'm weighing.
I mean, have you sort of encountered that, you know, where people have kind of come into
your life and then, you know, or, you know, performance wise gone and said horrible things
about you or anything like that, that sort of spoiled an experience for you?
Um, I haven't really, this sounds so up myself.
I've never really experienced criticism.
Um, no, I, to be honest, like genuinely, I haven't really had that much experience of,
you know, hearing about like things that are said about me.
Um, or like hearing about this is probably cause they've never just got back to me.
Um, but I definitely have had experiences and I'm like, okay, I'm glad it's over.
Like, I'm glad it happened because I learned from it, but, you know, it's not necessarily
an environment that I want to hang on to.
Yeah.
And I can be content with that.
And then there's others that I just like, feel almost like homesick about that.
I'm like, I just wish I was like back in the green room with that cast and we were doing
the show again.
Um, and it's like people that like, you will stay in contact with and I'll like go and
get brunch with and all that kind of stuff.
It's very wholesome.
Yeah.
I mean, do you like find that experience?
Like how do you know when something is like not right for you?
How do you sort of judge it for you?
I guess self experience and self worth.
I think it's just, if you're not, if you're not learning from it, then it's not helpful.
If you, if you feel like you're the smartest person in the room, what are you getting from
that?
Yeah.
I mean, if you're not helping someone or someone's not helping you, there's got to be kind of
like a mid ground or everything.
Yeah.
Like I've just, you know, I've had some where it's, I feel like it maybe wasn't a level
of professionalism that I expected or wanted, I guess.
And I've had others that it was just like weird kind of dynamics, like I guess the group
of people that were together, not everyone got along in a way that maybe was expected.
And it was just like, not as fun.
I mean, yeah, simply like, I don't know how else to kind of describe it.
Like it wasn't like awful, but I'd find myself going home and like, you know, talking to
my housemate and just complaining about things.
And it was like, so like, you know, you know, it's like just annoying when the tiniest little
things get to you.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, we're at that point that it's like, you can't say anything without me like
rolling my eyes.
Oh my God.
How many times has that happened?
Oh, to be honest, not that many times, but it's just like, I think that's more memorable.
Like when I look back on like the show, I don't think about, oh, there was that one
good time.
Yeah.
I mean, like, have you, have you been through it every night?
Have you sat in a show and been like, oh my God, I can't wait for the end of this like
run?
There was one where like, I mean, no, to be honest, no.
Well, actually, yes.
There was one that I was like, I just wanted to be, before we'd even started performing,
I was like, get me out.
Um, it was just like, just, there were so many things wrong with it.
Um, but there was another that like, you know, it was a really good role for me.
It was like a great challenge.
It was the most responsibility I'd ever had in a show.
Um, kind of like character wise, like main character kind of does not leave the stage,
speaks a lot.
Um, and it was just kind of, you know, some scenes I'd be so relieved to be at the end
of every night.
Um, cause it was just like a weird, hard experience.
And then, you know, you get into interval and no one would talk to each other.
And I'm like, what is happening?
Guys, come on.
Oh my God.
Have you like, cause I mean, those kinds of situations tend to, you can tell when you
watch a performance as well, when someone doesn't want to be there.
Um, and I mean like, you know, everyone has their own sort of experience of, you know,
you can be in the best set ever and someone will still like find something, uh, that they
might have an issue with.
But I mean, I've, I've never quite been an entire, I think I've only had one experience
similar to you where I've literally been like from start to finish.
I literally hated every element.
I can only think of one that's like that extreme, but there's been others that it's like, oh,
it's not the end of the world that we're finished.
Yeah.
I've had a lot.
I mean, like, you know, whether, whether it's sort of like projects I've worked alongside
of my own, I've definitely had an especially, I talk about experience a lot on this, but
experience is one of those things that you learn off others and then you learn off yourself.
And you sort of, I feel, I don't know.
And I don't know if you agree with this, but you sort of feel like you, you have a bunch
of people that you learn together with, and then you have a bunch of people that you learn
off.
And then you kind of have a bunch of people that you also teach.
Like, but they're all different ages.
They're not necessarily like ages such immaterial when it comes to our industry of like, you
know, um, you might know something that I don't know, or you might have an experience
that I haven't had.
So therefore you can teach me or vice versa.
But then when people kind of older than us go, Oh, I've been in the industry for 20,
30 years and I know all the crap that is, do you find that more annoying as I see, you
know, a person coming into it?
Um, I, yes and no, I think I don't mind it if it's backed.
Yes.
So it needs evidence.
It, yeah, it just, well, it's kind of like, you know, I've been in a show where there
was someone who was like much older than me and then just comes in and is talking about,
Oh, I worked at like these places and blah, blah, blah.
And just like dropping names and then it was the most unprofessional person I've ever
worked with.
And I was like, are you just like lying or like what's happening?
I'm like, don't, don't, they're like, are you lying to yourself?
Yeah.
Are you trying to fit in?
I like, I was just so confused and I was like, it annoyed me even more because I was like,
why try and be different?
Why not just be open to learn from people who have more experience than you, whoever
they are.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I, I a hundred percent agree with that.
And I think it comes back to the thing of like, you're constantly learning.
You're always learning and people always challenge each other.
And I mean, like it goes down to collaboration and who you work best with as well, because
I've worked with people that I do not work well with.
And that is my least favorite thing to do, especially as like a creative and gone, Hmm,
what do you do with like people who don't, I don't want to say gel.
Like you can work with people who don't necessarily have the same idea, but I'm talking about
people who literally just go, your idea sucks and still kind of like, and then tell you
constantly I've worked with those kind of people.
Yeah.
So I've never had someone outright say your idea sucks.
It's way more passive aggressive.
Um, it's so, yeah, I find it hard because I think it also comes from like, this is going
to sound strange, but like being a woman and just kind of, you know, when you're assertive,
you're bossy and that kind of stuff.
And I just put up with stuff for so long.
And then my outlet is, you know, talking to people who are not involved, who doesn't matter.
And I can just like whine all I want and release it that way and then just put up with it in
rehearsals or whatever.
Yeah.
Um, but then it kind of like a show I did recently, it got to a point where I was like,
I actually can't anymore because it was so hypocritical.
Like I would ask for like one kind of like, not even adjustment or just kind of like,
can you be aware of that you're doing this or, um, like blah, blah, because it really
helped me out.
And then they would just like pick on the most minuscule things that I was doing, um,
as kind of a comeback.
Huh.
And I'm like, or, or every time the director was like about to give them a note, they'd
say like before, whether or not it was a good note or a bad note, they'd be like, oh, I
only did that because so-and-so did this.
And I'm like, hmm, hmm, what an interesting kind of, just like nothing's their fault.
And then I kind of like, just very calmly did not, like, I was very cautious of, you
know, not swearing, not raising my voice, just kind of like being like, this is how
I feel.
Does that make sense?
If it doesn't, I'll rephrase it.
Like, I just want to let you know.
And then, yeah, I kind of just got told that, you know, oh, you made everyone uncomfortable
and like, um, you really shouldn't have said anything and like, blah, blah, blah.
And so, yeah, I just ended up like, ended back up in, back up, ended back in square
one.
Yeah.
Where I was like, yeah, whatever, do whatever, I'll just deal with it, I guess.
Oh my God.
Oh my.
See, like, I mean, look, I walk the earth in a very completely different light, but
I do find that incredibly frustrating because it's like, you know, like, and I'll say it
straight like, like, fuck you kind of situation.
Like what do you, I mean, how did you, how do you deal with it?
Like, do you just intend to like go home and then just rage?
I do.
I just bitched my house.
I mean, like fair because I mean, and I like what you said about like, you know, the perspective
of being a woman, because that is very true, especially as a young woman, like, and I feel
it's frustrating because looking at you and the, and the reason as a performer and the
stuff that I was, you know, I reached out to you originally was because you had a particular
look that I was after, but also because you had talent and I think that talent and, and
assertive behavior is absolutely fine.
Like you can be assertive as you want, cause I, I, you know, grew up with a very, you know,
amazing mother and everything and I had a lot of female friends growing up, but I do
find I agree with you when men are presented with assertive women, they go, Oh no.
Oh yeah.
How dare you have an opinion.
It's like, well, why the fuck not?
Like it's the best thing in the world and, and sorry, it's just, I'm glad you're swearing
cause I was really many times where I was struggling to find other words.
No, you're always allowed to swear on this.
Please, please go wild.
I should have stayed at that at the beginning.
Please fucking swear.
Okay.
I'll try.
Okay.
But I mean, like, do you, do you walk?
I mean, you must constantly walk that line, especially, or you know, cause do you find
that people kind of cast you for your looks mostly, or do you find it's more about your
talent that you hope that people cast you as?
God, I have no idea.
I think it wasn't something that really occurred to me until I started doing screen.
Um, when, you know, on stage, you can get away with a 35 year old playing a 14 year
old.
You can get away with that.
They're far away.
How could they know better?
Um, on screen, you kind of have to sit more into an archetype and, you know, be conscious
of what people are going to assume about you when they look at you for the first time.
And that was something I tried to think about a lot, um, but then, you know, haven't really
necessarily explored that much just cause I've been doing a lot of theater this year
where it really, you know, didn't matter as much.
Um, and so in that way, I hope that it was because of talent, because at the end of the
day, I don't think it would have mattered what the character looked like.
No.
Um, in those shows could have been literally anyone.
Maybe like the only thing would be like age range.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
But then, yeah, on screen, it's kind of a different story, which is interesting and
not something I've had as much experience in.
Are you sort of looking forward to it though?
I don't know.
It's harder because I think in a way it, it kind of makes it easier to deal with rejection
because you can just tell yourself that, you know, maybe they just wanted a blonde girl,
which is fine.
And then you can be like, well, I'm just not blonde.
That's easy on screen.
Not on stage.
On stage it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, which is weird, but I don't know.
I really, it's, it's a hard kind of superficial industry.
It really is.
And I think when I sort of always like started out and especially when I was younger, um,
I make it sound like I'm so old.
Someone said I was old the other day and I was like, oh fuck.
Um, but I mean, like when I started out, I was definitely looking at everything, you
know, going, oh, what's appealing, what's not appealing.
And I think I go to this stage and it only happened probably in like 2017, 2018 where
I got very fed up with everyone having this bleak sort of very limited view of the industry.
Like it was like, you are predominantly just white blonde women in front of camera.
And I was like, also no one was given a chance to actually act.
Like no one was given, you know, a lot of my friends wanted villain roles.
A lot of my friends wanted, you know, out of the box kind of roles where they were just
like weird characters that, you know, weren't normal, just girl next door kind of thing.
And I think I just started having this sort of a perspective of like shifting it going
that way.
But I mean, like that still feels like, it happens more and more, but I feel like when
people cast women in certain roles, they're still trying to be like sexy or just glamorous.
Like do you still kind of feel like people are trying to put you into the, like that
box?
Um, yes and no.
I think there's like the, it's almost like it with any kind of, not like gore, like horror,
but like, you know, some like maybe like thriller and stuff.
It's like the siren effect.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I think it's now I'm like just forgetting what the question was.
I had an answer about the, um, no, it's gone.
Oh no.
There's something about girl next door.
Yeah.
Girl next door and the, and like archetypal roles and everyone wanting to play quirky,
quirky characters.
Let me see if I can jog your memory.
Cause I said yes and no.
And then I answered yes.
What was my no argument?
Cause you mentioned the siren effect.
That's the yes.
What was the no?
No idea.
Something about glamorous.
I have no idea.
Interesting.
I have absolutely no clue.
Cause I mean like the only way it springs to mind is like with, with the siren effect
as well, I feel like that is a, you know, cause there's something also that, you know,
like Helen Mirren recently appeared in a film, which was about a woman who was going like
her partner, I think had died and she was like having this thing with a sex worker and
it was just, I come, I come with a full life of me of the name of the film, but it's one
of those things that you kind of like projectively in the future see like I remember, um, watching
a, no, it wasn't Helen Mirren.
Sorry, Emma Thompson, Emma Thompson.
So I thinking of different, a different anyway, the point being, God, my brain is just like
trying to remember what your no answer is.
But I mean, like the, the interesting thing was, I feel like that film shows, you know,
natural of women aging as well.
And, and you know, I think that that is something that our industry seemingly lacks that once
you get a certain age, you kind of get shuffled out, um, as a woman as well.
Is that something that you kind of fear?
I have heard from multiple sources that the best roles for women are in your forties.
Really?
Yeah.
Which is super weird.
And it's also like not my niche.
My niche is high school drama.
I think, um, but you know, like I've got a friend who is 19 and she, I think she's going
to be really successful in like 20 years.
Wow.
Cause she just hasn't like aged into her personality.
Right.
And I'm like, you're so good as a mum.
Like, um, but that's where you get like all your drama.
Like you've got like big little lies.
Um, and others.
Um, there's like good stuff.
Um, uh, the yellow jacket.
Yes.
Oh my God.
Can I just say that show?
Love it so much.
And second season, I think this year or next year, one of the two, but I'm excited.
I'm genuinely excited for that show.
But yeah, like, so that's something.
Yeah.
We're starting to see a lot more dramas being, I think it's just cause it's being written
by that demographic.
Yeah.
Um, and yeah, cause it was sheltered for so long.
And you know, you'd have the stories about men in that age bracket, but all of the women
would be in their twenties.
So it's like, what's the point?
I mean, it's also, yeah, it's kind of weird because I look at like reality with like Leonardo
DiCaprio dating people in it, in his, like he's in his forties and he's dating people
in his, their twenties or I think he's 50 now and it's still very unnerving.
But it was kind of like, I remember reading all of Twitter recently with House of Dragon,
um, Game of Thrones and Matt Smith, um, you know, making out with 22 year old.
Um, I can't remember her name.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And that was so bizarre.
Like I didn't even watching that.
I look at her and I'm like, that is a child.
That to me is a little bit like, I get that, you know, she's 22, but still a little weird.
I, in a show, I don't, the last show I did, um, I was, my character was six years older
than me.
And then the other guy, um, he was five years older than his character, right?
The character's already three years apart, which meant there was now 14 years age gap.
Oh yeah.
Wild.
I mean, like, does that make you uncomfortable as a performer?
Like only in hindsight, I think it's just a kind of, you know, it's a job.
You got to do the job.
I mean, I could argue, but would you ever like, you know, I guess, cause the thing is
like, you know, with shows like Game of Thrones, there was a lot of sex scenes.
And I remember reading the article with Patty Constantine, um, you know, and there was an
intimacy coordinator with his love interest who is like 19 and he's 48.
And she was just like, worried, concerned when going in and apparently like all the
situation was fine.
Like it was very consensual and everything.
And then, you know, they had an intimacy coordinator, but still I would have sat there
as like an actor as a director on set, just being like, huh, this still kind of makes
me feel weird.
Yeah.
We had a coordinator, intimacy coordinator.
Um, but it just, yeah, I had a lot of anxiety about it.
Um, but like kind of more just, you know, stuff that I know I have to work on and like
where I know my boundaries are and stuff like that.
But I think it's, it's interesting because you're playing characters who have different
values to you and who have different emotional and, um, what's it?
Oh, I was going to say emotional and intelligence intelligence.
Um, emotional and rational intelligence.
Yes.
Like you just, your character craves completely different things to you.
And so in that sense, like, I mean, once you're actually doing it and you're performing it
and you're in the scene, it's fine because it's just where the scene is going and it's,
you know, it's rehearsed and it's safe and it's all that kind of stuff.
But it's just like, you really can't dwell too much on it because then you'll get in
your head and then you'll get anxious and then you'll be looking back like, what the
fuck actually just happened?
Yeah.
I mean, like, and I feel like it's always a learning, like constant learning experience
with those kinds of things as well.
Um, I like it that you mentioned boundaries because I do love it when people kind of mention
boundaries.
It's like my favorite thing.
And consent has been like massively pushed in the last year, or it's like check with
your fellow actors.
What are they comfortable with?
I've been rehearsing a show that goes up next week.
And my favorite thing is how normalized boundaries and stuff is like every morning we check in
how are you feeling emotionally scale one to 10?
How are you feeling physically scale one to 10?
Are there any injuries?
And then we do like a green light system.
So it's kind of like, you know, green, yellow, red, green is like, you don't have to ask
if you're going to touch me.
It's fine.
Yellow is asked, but it's probably fine.
And then red is no.
And it's so easy and normalized and no one has to feel like remotely embarrassed or uncomfortable
if you know, maybe they are red or yellow.
And it's just like everyone now in the room now knows, okay, now I like I'll just ask
and that person, you know, maybe they're feeling a bit off today, but I'll be careful with
them.
And it's so easy.
It's so easy.
And it makes it so much more comfortable for everyone and safe.
And it just, I'm very glad that it's starting to be normalized.
I love that.
That's like, that's the best.
I didn't even know that was a thing.
Like that green, yellow, red system.
I'm going to steal that because that is so like, cause yeah, going to say, I mean, that's,
you know, is one of my concerns though, whenever you deal with like, you know, even, even these
days, you know, when, when you're sort of performing with anyone, I feel like even if
there are intimate moments, I feel like that's a good way to check in.
Do you feel like, here's my question though, do you feel like people should do that in
day to day life and just check in and you know, cause I feel like we get a lot of unwarranted
touching or, you know, even like a tap on the shoulder some days, I'm like, I don't
want people to like touch me on the shoulder or, you know, hug me or anything like that.
There's definitely days where I'm like, no, don't touch me.
But I don't know how to vocalize that in a day to day situation unless it's like, I
guess in that artistic zone, like, do you think we should normalize it into society
as well?
Yeah, that's hard.
I think it's, this is almost like the argument with consent and people like, Oh no, it makes
it so awkward.
But I think there's kind of an aspect of like admiration, you know, when people do feel
comfortable to express themselves and it's like, well, if someone is like, Oh, Hey, I
just feel a bit off today.
Like I don't really like wanting anyone to touch me or anything.
Who's going to be like, no, I don't, I don't accept that.
It's going to be like, Oh, okay, like thanks for feeling comfortable to tell me and like
know that it's going to be okay.
I find it like a hard place to talk from though, because I don't often feel red.
I'm most mostly green.
And I think maybe this is just like a love language thing.
I'm like, yes, please.
Yeah, which is like interesting, but I totally like understand where it's coming from.
Yeah.
I mean, I, especially as a director, as a performer, I always constantly check in and
definitely had people much more comfortable with certain situations and like per se others,
especially when you know, whether it's a, you know, kissing someone or something, it's
always good to just like, or you know, anything I really like even snuggling.
It's like, it sounds so bizarre that you're like, Oh no, you two lie next to each other.
There's no like intimacy, but in that lying next to each other, personal space, it's personal
space.
It's like such a minute thing, but in the context of everyone's like safety and comfort
levels, that is also a massive thing.
And I feel like that's on a kind of like jogged for me in the last year.
Cause I mean, realistically in low or independent budget shoots, intimacy coordinators, we're
very few and far between until probably what this year and or last year.
Like it was just really quite recent.
I remember when I started, there was no such thing.
You just checked in with the actors and said, Hey, you okay to do this and you okay.
Cool.
Where, you know, I trust you to, to do it.
And like, that was kind of the level of knowledge that everyone had.
Now it's just have a third person on there to kind of make sure everyone's okay.
I don't think I could have done the last show without a coordinator.
I think I'm just so like out of my depth with the experience.
And I was like, I just don't even know where to begin or like how anyone's feeling or what
the director wants.
It's makes it so much easier for the director to talk to the intimacy coordinator and be
like, this is the mood that I want.
And then they're like, great.
Here's your blocking.
Good luck.
Yeah.
So they then go and do it.
And it's kind of like a mini director, isn't it?
To kind of go and talk to you, to you guys.
It's like a choreographer.
Yeah.
God, there's so many more little intricacy, intricacy roles now, which is, you know, expanding
the industry.
Cause yeah, it's kind of nuts.
I mean, I want to kind of swing us back though, to you as an actor and you young fraire back
in the day.
When did this whole journey begin for you?
Oh God.
Couldn't tell you genuinely.
Like I don't have like a pin point moment or anything.
I know when I was in my first play, I was seven or eight.
And I'm like, well, it must've been before that.
I did dance since, oh no, that was my first play.
So I was in year two and I started doing dance in year two.
And there obviously was some reason why I wanted to do that.
Look, I genuinely have no idea.
It's so intrinsic for me.
And I just like year 12 had no backup plan.
Everyone was like, you know, I'm not going to get into drama school straight out of high
school.
And I was like, okay, yeah, I know.
I'm like, but I'm going to try.
Yeah.
And then I did.
And then I was like, oh, this is great.
Um, now I don't need a backup plan.
Um, but I haven't got bored of it yet.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah.
It's been like at least 12 years.
It's a fun time.
That's insane.
And like, do you, cause yeah, I remember, you know, like you mentioning that your, your
parents were, oh God, not my dad.
No, no, not even creatively talented at all.
Not in the slightest.
My mom is an actor.
Yeah.
She, um, she went to drama school in the nineties with Joel Edgerton.
Wow.
Yeah.
I know.
I was like one claim to fame.
Um, yeah.
And I was kind of always around it.
Like she would do plays and there's like videos of me rehearsing lines with her in accents.
Wow.
I was like six or something like that.
Um, so yeah, I was very much around it.
Yeah.
And my parents very much tried to make sure I became an engineer.
Why?
Oh, cause they make money apparently.
Oh, do you have any interest in engineering?
No.
That fast?
No.
That's a very specific career.
Well, it was, I was always told there are so many different types of engineers.
Yes.
You can be an engineer of anything is what I was told.
I have no idea what engineers do still.
I've been told this lie for 15 years.
I've been told I can become an engineer in anything.
I don't know if that's true.
I mean like the, yeah.
I like the technical description is I guess fixes of things and builders.
Like it's pretty vague.
I know.
It's like, what, what exactly did you scope out?
Cause I mean like there's building engineers and there's tech engineers and there's like,
I was told you can become a hairdressing engineer.
What's that do?
I don't know.
A hairdresser, I think.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
So apparently you can make money as a hairdresser engineer.
Yeah.
Um, was it more enforced by your dad or your mom?
Both.
I think it, because it was kind of like my mom never really had like a big break or anything.
Yeah.
Um, I think she just knows firsthand how rough the industry is and it's like, please don't
do that.
Yeah.
You, here you are.
Yeah.
Well, I'm very stubborn.
I know.
I mean, that's, that's not a bad trait, but I mean like, you know, do you then kind of
just, would you now even consider having a backup plan if, or you kind of with acting
hoping for a big break or not and just going where it takes you?
Who doesn't?
Who, who's an actor scene over like, oh, I really like just like not doing any big projects.
Waiting for you to be just not snatched up.
I just, you know what?
Don't cast me.
Um, no.
I, I don't, there's still like, this is my, the problem I had in year 12 that I was like,
I would look through the like UAC booklet and there was not one single course that I
wanted to do.
Um, and like, I still like enjoy other things, like mainly just from like doing subjects
in year 12, but like a few weeks ago, one of my friends was studying at UNSW and he
was doing, um, uh, he was majoring in English because he quote, wanted to be more literary.
Um, anyway, he sent me his essay and he was like, can you just read over it, make sure
it makes sense?
And I was like, this is the worst sentence structure I've ever seen in my life.
Can I rewrite it for you?
And I spent like an hour rewriting his essay.
I don't, I hadn't read the books.
I didn't know what the essay question was.
Um, I just did for you in English in year 12 and was like, I kind of miss writing essays
cause like, I don't, I'm not being forced to.
And I rewrote his essay and it was super fun.
And then he told me he couldn't use it because his teacher would think he plagiarized.
And I was like, you didn't plagiarize?
Like I haven't even read the book.
And he was like, yeah, but like she's also read my other writing.
Like she knows I didn't write this.
And I was like, fair enough.
So she's, wow.
Um, so yeah, I'm like, I kind of miss writing essays.
I would be like a ghost writer for other people's like, uh, I think that's actually
illegal.
I think that is plagiarism.
Yes, that is.
If I just write other people's essays.
Yes.
100%.
Cause for fun.
You could get into a lot of, a lot of trouble if you did that.
Yeah.
Cause they're like, why don't you just enroll?
Yeah, I know.
It's like, why don't you just do a bunch of subjects and just enroll on here?
Like, um, cause it would like, what other interests outside of like acting do you have?
Um, you're talking about hobbies?
None.
Um, because my hobby was acting.
And now it's, and now it's a career.
Yeah.
Kind of.
Um, I don't know.
I just like, I do, I take pride in intelligence and like just knowing things.
I'm a beast at trivia.
Really?
Sometimes.
It depends what the questions are.
And like history questions?
I know some history.
I know a lot about world war two because I did modern history in year 11 and 12 and three
out of our four subjects were world war two.
And they didn't have to be, they could have been four completely separate events, but,
um, yeah, I just, I think it's like so funny.
Like some of the stuff they did, those, those Germans invading Russia, it's stupid.
They made some bad choices.
One minute.
They're, they're invading the snow and were halted because they didn't bring antifreeze
and their tanks froze.
Like the petrol just froze and they were like, ah, we're stuck.
They wore black to invade in the snow.
Like it's just like these, I'm like, this is a sitcom.
Give me more.
And that's the only reason why I remember any of the information.
Cause I think it's so funny.
Man.
Yeah.
I do love world war two.
It's a very interesting time.
Um, not a great time to remember.
No.
I mean, you wouldn't want to go back.
No, no, but also like there's a lot less hatred towards the Germans now.
True.
There was a lot towards them.
How the turntables.
I know.
Um, but I think one of my favorite like ones, the history lessons from world war two is
like the Japanese subs coming into, you know, Australian Sydney Harbor.
And then we could have almost got like fucking invaded.
Yeah.
Good times.
And then did not.
No, no, no.
Cause you know, people blew that shit up and then, you know, like probably a bunch of bodies
were like singing in the ocean, but that's, you know, we're safe.
But I mean, it's interesting that you think about that and like how much this country
could have been completely swamped into another direction.
Um, and that's only what, not even that long ago.
That's like what?
80 years ago?
That's a long time ago.
Well, I mean, like the first world war was like over a hundred years old.
Yeah, but like my grandpa was like 10.
I mean, like it's, it's kind of for me as well, you know, because, you know, when people
go to me, oh, this show, you know, when like early 2000 shows and stuff like that, and
they go, oh, this show is 20 years old.
I'm like, is it, is it really or anything like, and then suddenly like you look at history
cause I'm, I'm currently in the midst of binge watching the X-Files, which is a great 90s
show if anyone has seen, but they have brick phones and like the Mount of Cold War era
talk in it, like post-Cold War era is so prominent in it because the style of writing back then,
especially with America and Europe was, there was a lot of Cold War threats during that
era.
So a lot of their writing in the nineties and late eighties was all about the Cold War,
like subtext.
And it's so interesting to think of through a modern 2022 lens, how much I don't even
think about anything that extreme on a daily basis.
I don't worry about getting bombed.
I worry about like people's freedom rights and...
Yeah.
I think it's just evolution.
I mean, like we're still, I feel like in some ways, right now we're more vocal about this
stuff than ever.
Yeah.
It's just about everyday issues and things that people didn't think were issues 20 years
ago because they were worried about being bombed.
Yeah.
It's weird how it kind of, we're like, oh, we're so different to them, but it's exactly
the same in a different font.
I mean, like, is there any sort of views and opinions that you hold that you're very strong
about and want people to be like, shut the hell up about?
I don't know.
I feel like the answer should be yes.
I'm like, I have no opinions.
I don't know.
I get very existential a lot.
Really?
Yeah.
You sound like that's a bad thing.
Yeah.
You're like, why am I existential right now?
Yeah, I don't know.
I like being able to have those conversations though, I think.
And just mainly with like close friends where it kind of, you're either going to have similar
opinions or you respect each other enough to hear out the other's opinion.
Like there's no fun having that conversation where you just got two very strongly opinionated
people who aren't going to change their minds and are just arguing.
Yeah, I don't know.
I can't think of like anything specific.
Because I feel like my sister is a lot more vocal than me.
And she's like, she's in year 12 now and goes to all of the like school strike climate rallies
and like all of that kind of stuff.
I've never been to a protest.
I don't judge you at all.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think because the school strikes started when I was in year 12, I think, like towards
the end.
And I was way more concerned about my attendance.
I had almost perfect attendance.
I was genuinely just like, I was more concerned about getting in trouble than going to the...
Because it was like a very new thing.
And you know, hardly anyone was striking.
And I just like, I don't know.
But then I don't feel like it's because I didn't have a strong enough opinion about
it.
No.
I think it's like other things.
Look, I wasn't too dissimilar to you.
I was very impartial to a lot of...
I'm very strong now because it's been quite a few years.
But I mean, like even then I remember like my mom texted me and was like, why aren't
you at the Women's Day March when I just finished work and I'd been up since four?
I was like, I'm tired.
The only reason I didn't go was I was like, I'm tired, I'm going to go home.
I don't particularly want to stand around with sweaty people for two hours.
But in saying that, I feel like as activists or as prominent opinion speakers, you can
still express your ideas and beliefs in other ways.
I mean, look, I feel like everyone's allowed to express their opinion unless it starts
hurting other people.
I feel like there's a line that people sort of like suddenly cross.
If you go, oh, it's like when people go, I'm not racist, but I'm just like, what are you
about to butt me with?
What's your thoughts?
No offense, but you look really ugly today.
But you can't be offended.
No.
Like what?
I hate people like that, I really do, and I think, especially I used to have to deal
with Pauline Hanson for work and that was something I really hated doing.
I had to be nice to her in a professional capacity.
Luckily, I don't have to deal with her anymore, thank Christ.
But even now, if I ever speak to politicians or actors who have vastly different opinions,
whether they're really racist, homophobic, I kind of just try and tell them in a way
that doesn't make a fight occur, just kind of be like, okay, you're allowed to have
your opinion, but don't share it in the space.
And please, and then don't associate with the group anymore.
Because that I think is the hardest thing is to be very diplomatic.
Because some people just also want to chuck knives into others when it comes to situations
where you don't want a scene.
Like, how do you feel on that?
I work a lot in customer service.
And I understand like it is a bit different because you're dealing with people who have
different opinions to you while also trying to make them do something.
Like, so especially like I have dealt with a lot of anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers because
I work in a building that requires people to wear a mask and be vaccinated to enter.
Just a lot, just very strong opinions, a lot of kind of like, I'm going to yell at you
because you're the only person who's here and you're making me try and do something.
And I think that's why it's different if I'm like talking to someone who doesn't want
to wear a mask.
And the only reason I'm talking to them is because I'm trying to make them put on a mask.
It's going to be a very different kind of interaction than if it's just like, oh, okay,
well, that's okay.
You do what you want.
Just maybe don't tell me about it.
If that kind of makes sense.
So it was like a roundabout analogy.
Yeah, no, I know what you mean because I feel like you've got to enforce, you know that.
And I remember I've worked with, I used to work with someone who was an anti-vaxxer and
the company went bye bye.
And it kind of like, I definitely think I'm very like, I was very pro-vaccine.
I mean like nowadays, if you haven't got your vaccine, that's on you.
If you survived having COVID, good on you.
At this point, I really don't care.
Just don't come to me about like, you know, your opinions on vaccinations.
If it is a legal requirement for you to enter a building that is entirely on the rights
of the corporation and everything.
But it is interesting because like I've, you know, definitely disconnected with people
over it because they, you know, I had one friend who I was very close with and then
suddenly they were just like, I can't attend your Christmas thing.
And I was like, okay, why?
And they were like, oh, I haven't had the vaccine yet.
I was like, okay, cool.
Are you going to get it?
And they were like, no.
And I was like, okay, that's fair enough.
You're entitled to your opinion.
But at this point in time, I can't associate with you because of my family and you know,
and, and, and stuff like that.
So we can't see each other.
And then they invited, they invited me and my partner to this picnic thing with a whole
bunch of other anti-vaxxers.
And I was like, neither of us are going to attend this because it's just going to fuel
our anger towards people who don't, you know, think that we're getting microchipped and
everything.
Like that's the bizarre thing and the bizarre side of it.
Do you feel like though that the anti-vaxxer kind of like ship has sailed and no one gives
a crap anymore?
Yes and no.
I think, yeah, I had the same thing.
Like I know a few people who, um, I know they didn't get vaccinated like whenever it was
like mostly towards the end of last year where it was kind of, um, a big thing.
Yeah.
To be honest, I've seen those people since and I don't know if they have or haven't been
vaccinated.
Um, I think, yeah, it was, it was hard cause, um, like my dad has like chronic lung issues
and so for a long time it was kind of like, oh, well you can't, you cannot get it.
Yeah.
Please don't get it.
Um, and it was being careful with that.
And yeah, I think I agree that ships has kind of sailed, but then it's also just like, well,
that kind of means both parties shouldn't be as vocal about it anymore.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, and I, and I'm in the same boat because I mean like my dad, um, has also been diagnosed
with like, like a condition with the lungs and basically I remember when he told me and
mum and dad sat me down and they were like, oh, his life is, you know, just with COVID
at the moment, we don't know what the doctors will say and he's fine now.
He can, you know, he's been traveling and he's absolutely fine.
But I mean like there was a period of time where I was like, oh dear God, if you get
this like, or someone gives it to you, oh fuck, like what will the results mean?
Yeah, it was kind of just like, we don't know what is going to happen.
Um, but it kind of just turned out that my dad was the least concerned person about it.
Like he's had these like, I don't know, it's not a disease.
I don't know what it is, but, um, since I was like a child.
Right.
Um, so he's kind of like accustomed to it's been like years and years and years.
Um, and then we were all kind of like, oh, no, you can't get it.
And then I got COVID on Christmas Eve.
Oh fuck.
Which the worst part about that was that I was a Christmas casual.
Oh fuck.
And good work Boxing Day.
Um, yeah, it was like great.
I know I felt so bad.
Um, I still have that job though.
I'm impressed.
It wasn't that bad apparently.
They didn't hate you enough to not keep it.
Yeah, exactly.
I've got a permanent contract.
Um, but yeah, so I got COVID.
I don't live with my parents.
Um, and I was kind of just like freaking out on the phone.
And like I was on the phone to my mom and then she was like, I have to go.
And I was like, okay.
And I went home and cause I'd done a rat test in the storeroom at work.
Cause it was Christmas Eve.
I had to start really early.
I tried to go to Priceline before they weren't getting a ship in a rat test till 10 AM.
And I was like, right.
I'm going to double mask up and give everyone COVID for the next three hours.
No one else got it from me.
I'm impressed.
Which is crazy.
But yeah, so I ended up like going straight home.
I like threw up before the rat test had done its 15 minutes.
And I was like, I don't care what it says.
I'm leaving.
And yeah, like on the tram home and I was like crying and so stressed.
I was meant to go to Melbourne for New Year's and it was like a whole thing.
It was Christmas.
And then my dad called me and he was like, all right, like we've talked.
Just like pack a suitcase and like come and stay at my parents' house.
And I was like, no, like you can't get it.
No.
And then he was kind of like, nah, like I literally don't care.
Like we literally talked just like it's worse for us.
Like we'd rather get COVID than pick to you alone in your room on Christmas for the next
10 days.
And then he proceeded to drink out of my cup to try and get COVID.
What?
Did not get it.
Crazy.
I don't know what was happening there.
So yeah, he was not concerned about it at all apparently.
Good dad is a pro when it comes to don't give a shit.
There was some priorities out of order there.
I mean like that's insane.
I do think it is interesting as well because you know, like when I got COVID, Emily got
it before me and we went go and see her parents.
And then the next day I think she got it.
Like she tested positive before then she got it.
Like she had it for a week gestating or doing whatever its thing is.
And then like they didn't get it.
No one got it.
And then we were just like twiddling our thumbs at home for 10 days.
Yeah.
And then I did like five days after I got it because I was able to trace back to who
I would have got it from.
Because it was like a cluster.
It was like right after like the last day of uni.
And so there was like a big party with all the third years.
I was not there.
There was like 30 of them.
Anyway, they all tested positive and I had worked with some of them.
Like two days after.
So that's what you got them for.
Yeah.
And then proceeded to go to work for the next five days.
I mean, I mean like the kudos to no one getting into work.
I don't know how that happened.
I don't know how this virus works like at all.
It seems to have a mind of its own.
And I was so sick.
Like just for like 10 days.
My housemate got it like two weeks after me.
And then said it was my fault.
That does not.
No, that doesn't add up.
That's not how it works.
Um, lost his taste and smell for one day.
And that was it.
It was just like thriving for the rest of the week.
Holy shit.
I'm envious.
I was sick as a dog.
I was so sick.
I was like everything under the sun to nausea.
I lost my appetite for months.
Yeah.
How weird is that?
I think I lost it for like a month.
I was really like not that hungry.
And then I had brain fog for like two weeks.
Did you get the brain fog?
I don't even remember.
It was like midsummer.
Oh no, that's the worst time to get it.
Yeah, it was like, you know, Christmas, New Year.
Who even knows what day it is if you don't have COVID during that time.
I know, right?
Um, I got a side question though to ask.
Are you more of a summer or a winter person?
I prefer winter fashion.
Be like the heat of summer?
No, I like spring.
Oh, you're a spring person.
Yeah, I think so.
Like they're in between.
Sitting on the fence.
Love that.
Um, I want to talk to a bit about going forward into the world of social media.
I want to talk a bit about that, um, as a performer and as a person, is that something
you enjoy or is it something you really dislike?
I think it's a bit of a chore.
I yeah, I find it hard.
Um, I find promotion difficult.
Like it just makes me uncomfortable and you know, just I've got my, the back of my mind.
Like this is so egotistical.
I'm like, blah, blah, blah.
Um, but I think I remember O week of drama school, we had a seminar that was like about
marketing yourself as a brand online and how, and so I just remember everyone walking out
and being like, are you going to create a new Instagram account?
Like that's your business.
And I don't even know if anyone did.
But it was all like, you know, you have to decide what your name is going to be.
Do you want to keep your name or do you want to have a stage name?
I was like, oh my God, I don't know.
Um, but I kind of like, my mom still to this day is like, are you going to, you should
make a new Instagram account or whatever.
And I don't want to because I'm like, okay, the, I guess if I think about the celebrities
and public figures that I follow online, I don't, the, what's interesting to me is not
the like promo stuff.
It's like them being an actual human.
And you know, I, I already used to, like, I've got nothing to hide on my Instagram.
I'm used to, you know, being underage and knowing my mom will look at my Instagram.
So I'm very careful.
Um, and it's also like, okay, I've had that account for a number of years.
Um, while I was acting and performing and making connections and networking, it's like,
well, I kind of like, in a way I've kind of tried hard.
Like I've worked on it.
I've got like an okay following of like, I'm like, okay, theater companies follow me.
Some, some, and I'm like, why would I make a new account now?
And then when it comes to like shows and stuff, I'll try and promote, you know, like, oh,
buy tickets here.
Well, because I'm not going to go up to individual people and be like, so when are you going
to see my show?
Yeah.
So I'm like, ill no, if I just post it in the public, they can make that they can make
up their own mind.
Yeah.
And I mean, like, uh, you know, a lot of the shows have limited runs as well.
They like only for a week or two weeks or, you know, like sometimes even three days.
So really like I've missed friends, like written performances or performances due to like work
and then like that limited short run.
So I mean, like, I like it when people post that stuff.
Cause then I'm like, Oh, click, see when the dates are rather than someone going, when
are you seeing my play?
Yeah.
I find, cause if someone says it to me, I'll be like, Oh, I don't really want to now.
Yeah.
It's like a threat.
Um, I mean, also though, I do like, I do like your Instagram page a fair bit.
I'm like, I do because it, I mean, hear me out.
It's not like a weird kind of, probably the most, the best way of phrasing it.
But I mean, I like it because you do look like a normal person.
Like you, you do have this presence of, you are human.
And I think a lot of people, particularly in our demographic go and try and filter it.
So be like this glamorous obscene or like always nice life.
And I do like that we are just, you know, like either there's a photo of you in your
car or this photo, like you just got random stuff and it kind of makes you more human
than most because I hate that curation constantly.
I just don't know how to do that.
I've seen people who do it and I don't like it.
I think it kind of, you don't, I don't like find that genuinely appealing.
Like people being that fake or that curated because you meet them and then you're like,
you're nothing like that.
And I think that, I mean, like, do you like presenting who you are from the get go?
I don't know who I am.
Existential crisis and self-reflection at the moment.
I don't know.
It's just, it's a lot more effort to, you know, think about it.
And I get stressed when I try and think about that kind of stuff, like, you know, impressions
and you know, if you get too far into, you know, just seeking approval, then who are
you?
Like you're genuinely, you're going to have a crisis because you're going to be so lost
and you're just trying to be what other people want and it's going to be exhausting.
And that's not to say that I have fully, you know, kind of know how to do that.
But you know, you can start to recognise when other people are seeking approval a lot and
then you can start to recognise when you're seeking approval and for what reasons you
might be seeking approval and if it's all the time and if it's healthy or if it's unhealthy
and you know, when it is becoming draining.
And I think it's like, if social media feels stressful to you and yeah, like it's super
draining and you're always like worried about what people think, take a break.
Because it's not real.
It's not going to be real.
And it's not, you're not going to like it.
And then it's like, what's the point?
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's that, that's very true.
And I feel like people, you know, what's, I remember once ages ago when I started this,
like somebody asked how many followers I had on like, you know, podcast listeners and Instagram
and I was like, well, probably like 10, maybe 15, maybe 20.
I don't know, instead of like, I don't really look at it now because I don't consider it
a big deal.
I remember on Instagram when, if you had more than 11 likes, then it wouldn't say the amount
of people anymore.
So you could like your own post and it was like, if you had less than, if you had 10,
it would like list all the people and you could see who it was.
Like other people could see who it was, but if it was 11, then it was fine.
And I'm like, I'm trying to think back to a time where I was stressed about getting
like 11 likes.
And then I think how much that's kind of changed and where the values are different.
And I'm not like, I'm not lying.
Like I still check, I check how many likes my posts are getting and comments and you
know, how many views my stories get and how many followers I have.
And I think that's only human, like it's hard to completely separate yourself from
those things.
But it's also, that doesn't mean that I'm stressed about it or comparing it.
It just means I'm, I know I'm aware of it.
You're not like letting it fuel your anxiety or insecurities.
I mean, like, because I take it you're a bit of an anxious person on occasional self-reflection.
Occasional.
It's okay all the time.
Do you find that, like, because talking about like confiding and having safe spaces and
everything in terms of your own mental health, how do you moderate that when you sort of
go into scenarios completely like with social media and trying not to constantly wear your
heart on your sleeve?
Because I know I'm one of those people, I'm constantly, and that isn't been a good thing
and a bad thing.
It's like, it goes in either or.
I am self-aware of the fact that I do a lot to protect myself from getting hurt all the
time.
Like, pretty much every minute, every day I've like got walls up.
And I think it's hard.
It's like, I don't, I don't really know how to deal with life.
I think there's, you know, you get comfortable with people and you get close to people where
you feel like you don't have to worry about those things anymore when you're with them.
But that doesn't mean that you don't worry about those things when you're with every
person.
No.
But, you know, you've got some people that just doesn't matter with, like, I think the
most relatable to everyone is probably with your family and you just don't care.
Like you'll wear whatever.
It doesn't matter.
Like if you're sick or if you're tired or whatever.
I don't care how I look when I'm with my mum, for example, but I might care how I look when
I'm with people who I don't know as well.
Or it's like, I will talk about certain topics with like my best friends from high school
who I've been friends with for like eight or nine years that I wouldn't feel comfortable
talking about with other people.
Cause I'm like, well, I just don't know where we stand.
I don't know if this is like TMI.
I don't know if this is like uncomfortable for the other person.
And then it's good because then it's like, well, you've got that release with that person.
You're like, oh, I've got an outlet that I can talk about these things too.
But yeah, you can compare yourself to some people and not to others.
And I don't know what a healthy balance is.
I think it's just like the first step is being aware and kind of recognizing when you feel
certain things and when it's unhealthy and when it's just, you know, admiration and or
pride.
You can be proud of someone and jealous of them at the same time, but it's like, where
does that balance lie?
That's where it becomes healthy or unhealthy.
Yeah.
And I mean, like you don't want to suffocate someone as well.
Like I think you sort of were like my best friend of 11 or 12 years.
I've known her, but yeah, like I tell her everything, but then like that not, that used
to be the case, not the case when we first knew each other.
So it's like you learn over time as well to kind of let people in and, you know, and let
them trust you.
But I have also been on the other end where I'm much more hyper aware of people and their
kind of motives because I think particularly with this industry, and I feel like some people
in particular, just in life, their motives aren't genuine.
And I really, I kind of know when people aren't genuine because I kind of take this little,
okay, I'm going to stand back.
I'm going to observe how they are.
But being, you know, like, because sometimes when people talk a lot or sometimes when they're
reserved doesn't mean they're not genuine.
I think that people assume that being genuine is just talking all the time and being an
open book, but that's not true at all.
Like being genuine is, you know, being your true self, regardless of how people see you.
And I don't want to say like this, I don't hate it, but I definitely have a dislike and
a distrust towards people when, especially in like both side of relationship, friendships
and everything of when people aren't genuine, that I suddenly go, I don't really want to
know you because like, where is that level of trust?
And trust should happen, whether it's a friendship working relationship or anything, it should
always be a level of trust across the table.
I mean, do you agree with that?
Yeah, I think it's interesting because like, it's almost like the only way you can know
about those things is if you see someone actively in two different situations or two different
people, and then I find it hard because I know, or I can think of a few people that
I've heard certain things about that I've never seen that part of them.
And so it'll be like, oh, they say these kinds of things, they talk about these kinds of
things.
But then I'm like, it's hard because I kind of, I guess I believe you, but I've just never
seen it.
And I mean, just in general, like I find it hard to distance myself from people.
Like I can hardly think of, I can't think of one example where I've actively distanced
myself from someone that's only been like drifting apart from people, or just like naturally
losing contact.
So that's why I find it hard to kind of, you know, make like formulate those opinions when
it's like, I understand where you're coming from, and I don't think you're a liar.
I just haven't seen that side of them.
Or they act differently to me, which I guess is a red flag.
But I think it's, yeah, I agree.
Like I think I probably have a pretty good awareness of when people are being genuine,
and like if people have motives.
And I think a lot of that comes from acting and, you know, having to be able to recognize
those things and make those choices as a character.
Like you learn a lot about the human psyche.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, it's something that, I mean, like I would have talked about on
the podcast before as well, which is being situations where, you know, people have said
stuff about me or, you know, in working environments or, you know, friendship environments where
it's like, I didn't even realize and or, you know, were completely unwarranted and untrue
or were misconstrued.
Like there were so many different ways.
And I think that the last time that happened to me, it really made me rethink how situations
do occur because I don't go into these situations.
And I sort of confided in with a bunch of friends who had known me from different various
points in my life and chatted with them about this story.
And they all went and just sort of said, that's not you.
This person, like this situation is just awful.
Like don't worry, this isn't you.
And I think that made me because when you have a situation, which, you know, doesn't
like sound great or, you know, makes you question your whole moral and, you know, compass and
everything, I think that makes you go, oh shit, what have I done wrong?
And have I affected other people?
And when other people go, no, you're not like that at all, or I've not seen this side of
you, or this sounds completely unwarranted, it does kind of make you reevaluate.
But I think you should always learn from experiences as if someone tells you, you've done a situation
wrong and they, you know, like they might be like, I never want to work with you again.
Take that on board.
Don't write yourself up as the worst human ever because their experience might be different
to someone else's, but do kind of think about it as how did that experience shape me?
How am I going to learn from this experience?
And how am I going to better myself in a situation if that occurs again?
Yeah, I think it's interesting because it's also like how you feel about a situation,
it's not how it's necessarily being read.
Like I've got a lot that, and this is, I'm talking about first impressions now, that
I've been called intimidating a lot.
And it used to confuse the fuck out of me.
I'm so confused.
And I think what it actually is, is that I'm shy and, you know, have social anxiety and,
you know, I'm not going to be the one in the center of the room trying to make friends
with everyone.
No.
And not because I don't want to be friends with everyone, just because like I don't feel
comfortable going up to random people and, you know, being like, I'm not extroverted
like that.
And I've got friends who are and who, you know, every time you go out, you come home
with like five new friends.
And I'll latch on to those people because I don't know how to do it.
And I think that's what it is that like people are like, yeah, you're really intimidating
when I first met you, like I was scared to go up to you.
And I'm like, I was scared to go up to you, but not because you're intimidating, because
I was scared to go up to people.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's weird kind of thinking about that dichotomy and like, you know, how
there's always a way that it's being perceived in a way that it's being lived.
I mean, like, yeah, and a hundred percent.
And I sort of noticed that when we did the giant fetishute, where it's like, you know,
watching everyone interact differently.
And that was kind of like a social experiment in a way in the back of my head.
Because, oh man, and that, that day, I think I just felt incredibly stressed.
I was running around like a headless goose, but I remember watching everyone at one point,
I managed to actually focus on what everyone was doing.
And I remember once everyone was in the room together, who was really loud and who was
very comfortable making friends and who wasn't.
And I remember you in particular was just very much like, cool, there's a bunch of people
here and the same with Stav.
Like you and Stav kind of just stood off as being like, okay, cool, that's fine.
I don't want to kind of befriend everyone.
I'm happy just kind of staying in my corners and being like, you know, enjoying the moments.
But I think it was very much like you had Lachlan or you had Hannah and you had everyone
else just going and chatting and making stories as they went.
And I think that when you have this balance of boisterous personalities versus, I think,
shy and or like, you know, social anxiety, it's easy because like I'm like you when
I'm in a big scenario, I just kind of go, okay, cool.
I'm going to just slink away into the background.
Yeah, I think it's weird though, because I do, I latch onto those people and like,
I love it when I don't have to, you know, start it.
Yeah.
I don't mind if I'm out, like if people come up to me, I don't mind it.
But you're just like, you don't want to stop.
Yeah, I just can't.
I don't know what it is.
And I think it's also just like, you know, thinking too much about what other people
might think.
Even though it's like so irrational, like it's so irrational.
Maybe I'm just really intimidating.
Identical.
I'm just going to hang on to the fact that everyone thinks you're intimidating.
I just think you're, I definitely the first time I met you, I definitely thought you were
shy.
But I didn't think you were intimidating at all.
I thought you were just like reserved and shy and a bit anxious.
And that was about it.
Yeah, that's fair.
I mean, like, I definitely, do you think that's more of an accurate statement?
Well, I think in social settings, like I get it because it's the people that I get intimidating
from are the people who are like my closest friends.
Who, yeah, it would have been situations like, you know, first day of high school.
Or first day of uni.
And it's just those situations where everyone's kind of new.
And everyone's trying to latch on to people.
But some people are better at it than others.
And then it's just like, you need to like, like, I remember meeting the guy who's my
housemate now.
And it was like, yeah, it was before we'd started uni.
It was like the week before.
We'd had a group chat already because we had each other's email addresses and created
a Facebook group chat and some people were moving out and some people weren't.
And then we were like, right, let's go for drinks.
Like who wants to come?
I think that's the best way to get to know people.
We played like drinking games.
So it was like we knew each other's deepest, darkest secrets before we knew people's last
names really.
And we became so close as a cohort.
This is uni now, not year seven.
Yeah, I was about to say that was very, year seven, year seven drinking.
Don't encourage.
No, this is uni.
But yeah, I think I would just, you know, was sitting on a couch next to someone and
he's the type of person that makes friends with everyone and can start conversations
easily.
And it's so weird because then it's like, well, okay, as soon as you've got like one
person that you know and can latch onto, that's it.
You're set.
You can now it's fine.
Now you're comfortable.
But yeah, it's so I'm terrible at like being the only person that I know in a room.
Yeah.
Like really bad.
I hate going anywhere by myself.
Really?
Yeah.
So you always have to have someone.
Yeah.
I drag people with me everywhere I go.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
The amount of times I text my best friend in the like most random times and I'm like,
I'm just driving near your house.
Can you like come and get a chip?
A chip?
A single villachip?
I'm like, do you want to just like drive to the petrol station with me or something?
Cause I'm like, please don't leave me alone.
Wow.
So you're just like, don't like you're that like level of anxiety kind of just makes you
stresses you out of being alone.
Yeah.
I, I don't know what it is.
I'm like, this is so embarrassing for me.
It's fair though.
It's a fair experience.
You're like, oh dear God.
Yeah.
Um, no, there's, I mean like that's a totally valid experience, but I mean like, yeah, the
stress would be like, um, ah, yeah, that's bizarre.
But it sounds like, it sounds like you're on top of it.
You have coping mechanisms.
Like I said, I'm self-aware.
Cause you know, what's your main mission for the, I guess for self-improvement in the next
like few years, have you got a self-improvement plan?
Whoa.
That's how your deepest darkest self-improvement plan.
Um, I don't know.
I think it's, I'd like my room to be cleaner.
No, I genuinely like taking time to do those things like self-care and you know, make sure
I have clean clothes and you know, once I do have clean clothes, put them back in drawers.
I know, right?
That's a challenge.
Yeah.
I can't do it.
Maybe procrastinate less would be fun.
And that's why I keep myself so busy so I don't have time to think about like other
things because what I do is like, I'll have like an hour free and I'm like, great.
I can do washing, but I don't.
I sit on TikTok for an hour, which is not productive at all.
And then it all gets left behind.
Oh my God.
So yeah, I think, yeah, not procrastinating as much.
And just to be honest, next few years, letting loose.
Yeah.
Getting lit.
Just, you know, like getting rid of inhibitions.
And I think I've been doing that a bit where it's just, you know, dedicate a night to go
out and that is your only goal.
Just to like go out.
You don't have to worry about how you're going to get home or where you end up or like how
much money you're spending.
You can worry about that in the morning.
And it's just kind of like not stressing about things for once because I spent, like I, most
of high school, I was thinking about my career when everyone else was developing as normal
humans.
And it was kind of like neglected and now that I'm like not studying anymore, like I,
this is my first year not in formal education.
And it's kind of freeing in a way that it's like, well, I can, I don't have to stress
about much.
I just have to make sure that I get to work on time.
And that's about it.
And otherwise get lit and get drunk.
Yeah.
And just live in that moment.
Yeah.
Because, and especially now I live like in the city.
I used to live in the suburbs and if I went out, I'd be way more concerned about when
the last bus was.
Yeah.
And, you know, going home to my parents' house and being like fine enough to function
in that environment.
That yeah, it just wasn't as fun.
It wasn't free.
It was kind of restrained.
And now you're kind of like living out of home and there's a little bit of independence.
Yeah.
And yeah, just like, I'm not worried about that stuff anymore.
I mean, you are your own person.
And yes, yeah, the moment you move out of home, it's just kind of like, oh, that's
right.
I can do whatever the fuck I want, which is kind of nice.
It's very nice.
Because I remember like I went out drinking once and it was kind of like a semi-date.
And I remember like I had moved back home with my parents.
So I was mid-twenties at the point.
I was like, I don't feel comfortable bringing people back to my parents' house.
I'd rather always felt way more comfortable bringing them back to my own place or a shared
house, but not my parents' house.
It's kind of weird.
Yeah.
And I was just like, oh, I can do what I want.
Like last night I finished work at like 11.
Um, went to the beach.
I don't know why, just to chill, get some fresh air.
Just sit there.
No one cares.
I went with my house.
I wasn't alone on the beach.
You can't be alone.
I have to drive people with me places.
Yeah, I know what I was about to say.
Well, we literally just like sat on the beach and chilled for like half an hour or something.
And then we were like, okay, time to sleep.
Time to sleep.
Time for bed.
Um, yeah.
I was like, who cares?
I've had pancakes on the rocks at least once a week for the past three months.
Holy crap.
How's your budget for that?
It's not good.
They don't split bills.
No, they don't.
It's very sad and annoying.
It sucks.
So you end up paying like $50.
Yeah.
Um, but it's like, who's going to stop me?
No one.
Bored?
Pancakes on the rocks.
They're the only place open till midnight.
They used to be open 24 seven.
Yeah, they're understaffed.
Ah, that explains why.
I miss the days when you could go at 2am and just.
That's a recent thing.
I miss the days when you could go at 2am and just.
Yeah.
I've been there at 4am many, many a times.
I've been there very, very many times drunk.
Drunk off my face.
Yeah.
I've been there at 4am.
Drunk off my face.
Good times.
How I miss.
I can't drink.
I can't get drunk like I used to when I was young.
There's something about hangovers now.
Something about lockdown did like, for all my friends after lockdown, they were like,
I have no tolerance.
I get hangovers so quickly now.
I was the opposite.
I used to always be really hung over and then we had lockdown and I didn't drink because
I was with my parents.
Like I never really got drunk.
And then I am both a lightweight and don't get hung over.
So I get really drunk very quickly and cheaply and feel great when I have to go to work at
8am the next day.
I am both like annoyed by that, but also jealous because I want that ability.
Yeah.
I was like, everyone who made fun of me before lockdown for getting hung over and being lightweight,
jokes on that.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Now I need your superpower.
Now I need you to just get really sloshed on cheap because I'm an expensive drunk.
Unfortunately.
I just also like expensive drinks.
Yeah.
Just like buy, what was it?
Marble bar.
Anything with cocktails.
I love cocktails.
Yeah.
I love cocktails.
Please heal.
But I'm going to use this drinking story to wrap us up.
I'm going to ask though, where can people find you on the internet?
Where can they stalk you on the socials?
Oh God.
You looked so concerned when I said that.
I was like, don't give them your address.
No.
I can't even remember my address.
That's not true.
I have a very good memory.
Probably Instagram, Instagram is my favorite social media.
Yeah.
Am I going to have to say it right?
Yeah, you are.
Okay.
It is at Freya underscore Lily 13.
Wow.
Crazy.
Is it because you're original?
Is Lily your middle name?
Sure is.
And 13, was that how old you were when you made it?
No, I wasn't allowed Instagram.
I was, oh, maybe I was 13, but that's why I don't know.
No, no, no.
I was definitely, I was in like year nine or something.
I was late.
I was like 15.
Oh, okay.
I don't know why it's 13.
That's just like has been everything.
My email is 113 because 13 was taken.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's just, I don't know.
It's like the, you know, angsty teenage.
It's a lucky number, but it's unlucky.
Look at you angsty teen.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Super cool.
So cool.
But no, thank you for joining me.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Yes.
Thank you for having me.
I hope you've had fun.
Yeah.
I don't even remember what we spoke about, so it'll be fun.
Well, don't worry.
You get to listen to it all back.
And if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, you can check them out
on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be sure to put them up on the screen.
And if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, you can check them out
on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later.
Okay.