I'll say it like it's the first time.
This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film life, television culture, mental
health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.
Today I've got my special guest and friend Dominic Shields.
Hello.
I love that you drove all the way up from Melbourne.
Was this partially just to come here and also just have a little mini holiday for yourself?
Yeah.
I haven't had a holiday in like five years.
So I respect that.
Yeah.
So I was like, why not?
I'm just going to drive.
I'm going to drive for nine hours.
Did you do it in one day?
Yeah.
That's impressive.
Thank you so much.
I all or nothing.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I stopped off along the way and I saw weird stuff.
I saw the big sub.
Do you guys know about this?
It's crazy.
I saw your Instagram voice and I was like, what the fuck are you looking at?
What are these sizes?
Dude, I don't even know.
Like I just was, I was looking on the map like a couple of days ago and I was like,
what's some stuff that I can see?
And then a couple of friends that came down for Melbourne Film Fest were like, yeah, go
and see the big sub.
And I was like, what the fuck is that?
And they were like, it's a giant submarine.
And I'm like, okay.
That was all the information they gave me.
They're like, you have to see it.
Yeah.
Like we can't explain it to you.
I was like, all right.
So I get there and it's literally like a park, like opposite of primary school with a giant
submarine in the middle.
Wow.
Yeah.
Exactly.
That's the reaction is like, cool.
It's like a music, like a mini museum, a giant submarine and a cafe and a skate park.
Like that's it.
Wow.
Yeah.
I was like, what the fuck?
So people were like, this is a major tourist attraction.
Literally.
There were so many people that stopped to like get out and have a look.
I mean, they were like older people and like families, like I get it.
But like it was like me, I was like the medium age.
Everyone was either like 85 years old or like seven.
There was no, I was the in between.
So you were the only one in their twenties going, this is sick.
I was like, this is sick.
This is sick.
What a cool thing.
Took some photos and left.
I mean like, isn't that just like a pre, like that is clearly also just us not giving a
shit.
Well, yeah.
And it's also like major post lockdown vibe.
I know.
I'm like, what can I go look at a giant submarine?
Fuck it.
Yeah, may as well.
I don't care.
Isn't that the weirdest thing about like post lockdown syndrome is that like Stockholm
syndrome is completely different.
Sorry.
You okay?
Almost said that instead.
No, like post lockdown syndrome is kind of this weird in between.
And yeah, it's just kind of like, how do you process that?
How do you go out into the wild?
I have no idea because I like don't leave my house.
So it's like, I mean, I do, obviously I'm not a total hermit, but like, yeah, I haven't
been on holiday for like five years.
So I was like, I just want to see stuff.
Like, I just want to look at stuff that I haven't seen before, like the big set or,
or just like new, I think cause our brain, we get so used to seeing the same thing every
day and like the same locations and suburbs and whatever.
And then when you have the opportunity to go out and like see something else, you're
like, Oh, what dad?
So you just like, you just excited by it.
Do you literally go up to everything and go, Oh, what dad?
I mean, maybe I did the lot like yesterday.
I was like, cool.
And it's like, literally it's just like inane stuff.
It was like a monument to, I don't know, like 1851.
And I'm like, yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Cool.
Why is that here?
I think also it's like an innate curiosity of like the past.
Yeah.
Of like, how did, how did you get here?
Yeah.
Like why you, what's that?
I think it's more interesting when I see things that shouldn't be there, like not necessarily.
I feel like I'm more fascinated by things that like literally have ended up in random
spots for no other reason than they're just there and no one can explain why.
Great.
Like there was a ship in the middle of a forest and no one can explain why the hell it's there.
Great.
And I love that because I'm like, did like a tornado happen?
Yeah.
Who put that there?
Yeah.
I mean, it's not like it's not a tornado, but it's like, you know, hundreds of kilos,
like it's thousands.
She's not like...
No, she hasn't lost weight.
Yeah, she's empty.
But no, like I feel like, you know, that's the kind of process and then, but yeah, when
I go and see things, like, I don't know, I did a lot of road trips with my dad when
I was younger and I've done that whole like, oh, you know, as a kid, but as an adult, I'm
just like, it's a town.
I guess so.
Like it's nice.
I've got nothing to sneeze at for the people who live here.
For sure.
But you know, like, I guess I'm like, cool.
It's a sub.
Yeah, literally.
I guess also because it's like, you've got, like, you've seen one small town, you've seen
them all kind of thing.
I know that they've all got their like own little kitschy thing or like their own whatever,
their own little bit of, but like, I don't know.
I love that you used both hands like you're about to explain something.
Yeah, and then I'm like, this is not a visual medium.
They can only hear my voice.
So they will have to do.
Calling the horses in.
But yeah, they've got like their own little thing and you're like, oh, cool.
Great.
I don't need to stop at every one.
I mean, you've got the world's best vanilla slice.
They've got the world's best vanilla slice.
Like, it's not like I was on the way here and it was like literally middle of nowhere.
It was probably like 8pm last night, middle of nowhere and it was like world famous Devon
Shetty.
And I'm like, who?
To whom?
I'm like, because it was literally like the middle of nowhere.
There was nothing there.
It was like a highway.
I'm like, who is coming here and saying these things?
I was like, what is going on?
I thought it was very interesting drive for me.
I feel like it's a very American as well because when you drive in the States, there's a lot
of world.
World famous, voted best number one.
And I'm like, it tastes like garbage.
But sure.
This tastes like a swamp, but thank you so much.
It's also like, I feel, you know, and no offense to people who live in the middle of nowhere,
but some of the food is really good.
And then some of the food just tastes like they've scraped off the bottom of the barrel
or like the grill has just solidified all the like gunk and slapped it into a burger.
I have such upset.
Oh, that's how you know, to think about.
Yeah, it's true though.
It is.
Yeah.
Some of it's great.
Some of it's not so great.
It's also like, it's a hit or miss.
It's a mixed bag.
It was a thing.
If you have any dietary requirements during you're in the middle of bum fuck, nowhere.
Yeah, dude, I'm a gluten free vegan.
Do you know how hard my life is?
Oh my God.
And I'm intolerant to like everything.
My condolences to you.
Thank you.
Namaste.
I mean, like I, I respect like some of my friends are vegan.
I'm like, okay, cool.
But when you're gluten free on top of that.
Yeah.
And I can't eat chickpeas.
I found out this year.
Have they got gluten?
No, I just can't digest chickpeas.
I think or something.
That's sad.
Because do you want to know the number one ingredient in most vegan things?
Yeah.
And coconut.
Two things I cannot consume.
What?
Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
My life is a joke.
This is like the worst time to be vegan.
Yeah.
I mean, for me.
Yeah.
It's just solely for you.
Yeah.
I'm struggling.
Like this morning I ate leaves.
I just had a nice bit of fresh air for breakfast this morning just to really get me going.
Do you know how pressitarians?
Oh, they aren't the people that just are like, yeah, good to go.
Hate it.
And like I had a friend trying to convince me that pressitarians was the reason I, you
know, like a good way of life.
I was like, how do you get your nutrients?
And I'm like, oh, I absorb it from the sun.
I'm like, well, like photosynthesis.
I'm like, we're not plants.
Like, please tell me.
Just, just leave some spinach or something.
Yeah.
From a scientific basis.
This is not how we work.
How bizarre.
I know.
I mean, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum.
Like live your life.
But like, that's quite the opposite.
I mean, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum.
Like, live your life.
But like, that's quite the opposite.
I mean, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum.
Like live your life, but like that's quite wild to me.
Yeah.
I mean, like, because I'm, I lived as a vegetarian for like two years and actually really preferred
it over being a meat eater.
I love cheese too much.
It's like my Achilles heel.
And I just can't get into vegan cheese.
It's something about it.
It's disgusting.
It's because it's like, it doesn't melt properly or it doesn't.
It has like, it's like rubbery in like a weird and not like the American cheese kind of way.
Because that makes sense to me.
Because it's like Maccas cheese.
You know what I mean?
Whereas like vegan cheese, you're like, oh.
It's just sad as well because when you melt it, it burns.
It catches fire.
Yeah.
And you're like, great.
Yeah.
And then you sit there and you go, oh no.
But I do love like going to places and having like vegan or vegetarian food because it's
so delicious.
It's so good.
And you're like, oh, a little treat for me.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
It's also because I'm lactose intolerant and like, like condolences to you.
Thank you.
So you're on the Achilles heel.
And also like, I don't know.
I just don't like meat that much.
I like meat, but I don't.
Do you not like cooking it?
Is that like a thing?
No, I, there's also a problem.
Cause that's like a lot of my friends.
They're like, I eat predominantly like a vegan vegetarian at home, but then they'll eat meat
outside of home because like someone else is doing it because they don't want to like
either prepare it or they aren't comfortable cooking it or they just like, can't be bothered.
I mean, it is a lot of process and it's a lot of oil.
Yeah.
From what I remember.
Yeah.
Back in the day.
Well, I've been like, uh, I was, I became vegetarian when I was 14.
So wow.
Yeah.
And I've been vegan since I was like 19.
I'm 28 now.
So quite a while.
I respect that.
Thank you.
It's crazy.
You're like, what a, what a turn of events.
This is where I'm at.
I do want to backtrack us to the first question I'm going to ask you because this is a podcast.
Um, I'm going to get everyone, you to explain to everyone on the internet who you are Dom
and what you do.
Great.
Hi, I'm Dom.
Um, my full name is Dominique, but please call me Dom.
It's otherwise I feel like I'm getting in trouble.
Dominique.
No, mum.
I'm an actor.
I'm a writer.
I model occasionally.
I raise guide dog puppies and I have a pet sitting business.
Yeah.
So I do a lot of things.
You're a very big entrepreneur.
I am.
I get bored easily.
I think is my, I respect that though as well, but all the conversations we had, you're like
aloof.
I don't even think from the get go you were like, aloof, me mysterious.
I'm a real celebrity.
Secret celebrity.
No, it's so funny when I messaged you the first time you, you're a sheer level of why
me?
Why talk to her?
I don't know.
I think it's a thing of like, nobody really kind of thinks that they're interesting.
I mean, some people do like egomaniac, but like, or very confident people.
Yeah, I know.
But yeah, I don't know.
It's kind of like, oh, okay.
I mean, if you want to chat, we can chat.
I mean, I just, I don't know what to say.
Yeah.
I mean, look at me now.
I'm trying to use my hands in a podcast.
I know I can't help you there.
I'm like keeping hold of them.
So I don't know.
She's sitting there and just going, sit on those so I can not move.
No, I think it's also really interesting because you run so many businesses, which is a very
active thing to do as well.
I mean like a creative thing to do.
I'll put that in brackets really.
What came first though, what was like your childhood interest first was acting, writing,
pet sit business.
Yeah.
When I, when I was seven, I was like, you know what I want to do?
I want to have a pet sitting business.
Yeah.
No, I started performing when I was four and a half.
So quite some time ago.
Yeah, I got involved in sort of my mom took me to, cause my brother's played sport.
So she's like, you need something to do, I guess, like help you make friends, like become
a bit more confident, you know, like get out of your comfort zone, I guess.
And sport clearly is not that.
Well, I am not, I was bullied a lot in sports.
So I really wanted to play hockey, but they bullied me out of the tryouts, like the team
tryouts cause they, yeah, they, I don't know.
This was pretty savage.
I was like 10 years old.
It was insane.
They were like trying to like knock my stick and like hit me in the shins and like, they
were like, we don't want anyone new in the team.
And I was like, oh my God.
Okay.
Wow.
I hate swimmer though.
So it was quite nice to kind of have a, like that was my outlet for a really long time.
Um, but yeah, so she took me to this like community center thing and they had like ballet
classes or they had like a drama class.
And I was like, dancing sucks, which I regret because ballet is such a beautiful art form.
And I really wish I could do it.
I'm a giant.
So I could never actually be a ballerina because there's like height restrictions or something,
which I didn't know about.
Isn't it like five foot?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like five, five, five.
I have no idea.
Basically you have to lock off some like feet.
I have to, yeah.
Most of me count me off at the, at the knees.
Um, and I was like, Oh, I don't really want to do that.
That looks boring to me and I'm uncoordinated.
So it makes sense.
And then, so I went next door and I saw all these like costumes and these people like
running around doing all these like crazy things.
And I was like, that's what I want to do.
Like that's my thing.
And then I joined and yeah, we did every, it was like, like amateur theater.
So it was like plays, it was musicals.
I did cabaret for a really long time.
Um, they got me to dance a lot, which I wasn't very good at.
So they put me at the back, um, cause I was a giant, um, and also uncoordinated.
So just a giant and uncoordinated.
I'm like a baby giraffe on roller skates has been the way to describe me.
Is that self description?
Uh, no, that's from, from others.
That's what they used to say when I used to model.
Wow.
Yeah, they were like, you're kind of like a baby giraffe on roller skates.
Cause I don't wear high heels.
So they're like, what's that?
What are you doing?
You need to practice this.
And so I tried and they're like, Oh my God, it's too much for you.
Like this is a nightmare.
And yeah, it's very funny to watch.
So you did, you basically, your mom put you into sort of doing acting.
Yeah.
Well, she didn't like force me into it.
It's something that you find interesting.
And I was like, yeah, like it's really fun.
And then I met my, my best friends doing that as well.
So my best friend, Emma, who I've known for like 20 years, we met there when we were little
babies doing amateur theater.
She's like, you're the only one that actually took it seriously.
So that's why you're doing what you're doing now.
Having a career.
Yeah.
I'm crazy.
Um, yeah, so I did that.
And then I was like writing stories and stuff when I was little and kind of, I wrote my
first ever published work was called the magic camel.
That's cute.
It was very cute.
So I wrote this story when I was probably like six or seven and I illustrated it and I took
it to my librarian at my primary school.
Cause she was like encouraging me to like do that.
She's like, Oh, I always see you like drawing in the library and like writing stories.
So like the next one you do, bring it in and show me.
And she's like, Oh, I'll, I'll give it to me and I'll have a look at it.
And then I'll give it back to you tomorrow.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
So I came back the next day to pick up my work from the editor and she'd bound the book
for me and like laminated the cover and she'd like displayed it in the library so that everyone
could see.
And I was very embarrassed.
So it was very cute though.
So I was like, Oh, that's really fun.
She's like, this could be something that you can do.
Like when you get older, that's what I'm doing now.
And with two published books later.
So that was really cute.
So I kind of been doing those things like my whole life pretty much.
That's like very creative.
Yeah.
I was a very creative, um, strange little kid.
So I was always like drawing something or like making voices.
And like I used to, uh, my brothers would like game on like computer game or whatever.
And so I, we had this like, what's it called?
Like a boom box.
Oh yeah.
Like a stereo thing.
So I used to get these like little cassettes and I used to create like, I don't even know
what you, it's like a radio show, I guess, like these little stories and like little
characters and stuff.
And I would record them while my brothers were gaming.
Cause the sounds would influence what I was doing.
And then we'd be like, I'd get them involved and we'd be talking about stuff.
So it'd be like this little radio play.
That's cute.
So cute.
So annoying for them.
They're just trying to live their life playing like Grand Theft Auto.
And I'm like, hello, like in the back.
So being, being the cute little sister, I was a absolute pest.
I just wanted them to hang out with me.
I mean, please.
Well, cause we're all five years apart.
So it's, um, yeah.
So it's quite, it was tricky when I was little.
Right.
So what there's five years between all, all three of us.
Yeah.
So five between me and my closest brother and then 10 between me and my oldest brother.
Wow.
That is very specific.
Yeah.
It wasn't intentional.
My mom just did it that way.
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean like kudos to having three kids and being five years apart.
I mean, you kind of get a bit of out of the terrible twos.
Yeah.
Like get into the, oh, okay.
They're mature enough to understand.
They'll do.
They'll figure it out.
They'll understand that there's another one coming.
I think it's like, um, cause yeah, like, but that's great.
I mean, like it sounds like your childhood was very similar to mine.
I remember like having the cassette tape and which, by the way, when you said that, that
was a flush to the past.
Like anyone who doesn't know what a cassette tape is and is a lot younger than both of
us.
Um, they were sort of this, you know, it was pretty CD-ROM and you had like this like,
um, type in it, which had like film related, like chemicals on it.
It would record at a certain speed, it would get hot enough to then able to imprint on
it information.
And yeah, that's like how we used to record voices.
They sounded terrible because they were like cheap and shitty and stuff like that.
And you'd be like talking so close to like the speaker.
So you'd be like, I'm making a podcast.
Yeah.
I know.
Like whatever.
Um, and, but yeah, it was like this cute little analog thing.
And I used to record little audio books when I was a kid.
I used to read my books into it.
That's really sweet.
I used to do that too.
I was like, this is fun.
Um, and look at you now.
I know.
Now I'm doing a podcast.
It's, it all checks out.
I know it really does.
Although I did this thing and I don't know if you did it, but on the way home, I was
like civilian ability as well.
So I, I kind of like drama was my outlet.
And I remember once on the way home, cause I, when I was kind of like in year seven to
10 drama was still pretty new to me.
Because like, obviously you don't have any new one to six, like, and I didn't know what
it was because it's like, you don't, you just kind of go, Oh, I'm creative.
But what does that actually entail?
Like, um, and I remember like making up stories by myself on the way home and talking to myself.
And as weird as that sounds now as an adult, I still do that.
It's like this little therapeutic thing, but I used to do all these voices and, um, it
was coming into like voice acting.
So it's like, you know, you just do things.
And I think it's like how you process things as a child and then you suddenly like throw
it into your adulthood and you're like, Oh, that's right.
I'm still crazy, but I get paid for it.
But someone likes to pay me for these wonderful crazy things.
Yeah.
Like it's nice though, that like you kind of, and it's like, you figure out what you
like and what you don't like, and you're kind of finding avenues to express who you are
and the feelings that you have, and then you're kind of able to see that it is a possibility.
Which is really nice.
And you're able to see like, Oh, it's not just me that does that thing.
There are other people and they're like, Oh my God, they're successful at doing it or
they're enjoying what they're doing.
So the self success, I guess.
I mean, do you, do you then sort of like consider yourself successful?
I mean, like, because you know how people sort of validate what success is very different.
Do you think that you've kind of led a very successful life?
I think so.
I think because I mean, it all depends on how you measure success.
Right.
So for me, being successful is being able to be creative every single day and then being
able to do an art form every day.
So that's what I'm able to do.
Like I'm able to do things like this, or I'm able to meet other creative people, or I'm
able to do a play or be in a film or do TV or voice acting or whatever it might be.
Or I'm painting or I'm writing every day.
Like, so that's how I kind of measure my success.
So I feel like if I'd said to younger me, this is what you're doing.
Like this is how your life's going to go.
I'd be like, cool.
That's nice.
Sick.
A younger you would have been like, yeah.
Yeah, boy.
Nice.
I'm fine now.
Yeah, this is going to be great.
Yeah, like because you, you know, you're doing something that you love and that brings you
so much joy.
Yeah.
So I think that that's like, and not the only way, but a very important way to kind of measure
your success and how you feel successful.
I agree.
As opposed to just being like, I'm earning X amount of dollars.
People know my name.
I'm in a magazine.
Yeah.
I mean, it's also like, it's kind of that discussion because you talk about like, you
know, writing and, and you know, everything, and I think that people, when they're younger,
they consider a lot of things like creativity as being financially stable.
And I'm like, you don't start in the arts if you're financially stable.
Oh, honey, no.
No.
You do other side jobs to help you make that.
I have nine jobs.
Hello.
But I mean, like when, when, you know, I still meet people today who are younger or older
and they just go, oh, I'm not successful.
And I'm like, no, you are like, you're doing stuff.
So therefore that is success because, um, yeah, it's, it's people, you know, and, and
I think it's also, we live in such a, like a very hard industry in, particularly in Australia.
We, you know, it's not a very profitable industry.
So a lot of us are making kind of like things together either for free or low pay or anything
like that.
Um, or, you know, however you approach work.
And then when you get the high pay gigs where it is very much, you know, like, um, big businesses
and they have a very specific structure, which might not allow for creative freedom.
Um, you still know that, oh, okay.
That money can help fuel maybe another creative venture that I can do later down the track.
And I feel like these days, I think because of the pandemic and because of a lockdown
and everything, people sort of realized that that side exists more like you can do both
because it was very much before the pandemic.
Everyone was like, nah, I have to either be in the business, the big business or I stay
in the indie crappy sort of scene.
I was like, they're both good.
They both have pros and cons.
Like that's the nature of the base.
Yeah, for sure.
Like, did you feel like when you, you know, um, when you were writing or stuff like that,
that, that, you know, cause did the writing stuff come out of lockdown as well to publish?
Yeah.
So I decided a few years ago that I was bored.
Classic.
I'm realizing this is a very standard thing.
I mean, if anyone who knows me, it'll be like, I'm bored every six seconds, but, um, yeah,
I was very bored and my brain felt bored.
So I was like, I'm going to go back to uni.
And so I'm doing my masters of writing.
And so, um, I was like, I don't really know like what I want to do.
I don't, I mean, I've always been interested in publishing and editing, so I'd like to
work in a publishing house.
That'd be really fun.
And then, so with my writing degree, I study every kind of writing ever.
Oh wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
So like I, so much content to know.
So much content.
Um, so we kind of had to do all these projects and stuff of like, you know, you can write
whatever you want.
And I was going through a breakup at the time and I was like, I have all these feelings.
I don't know what to do with them.
Here you go.
And they were like, they're like, wow.
Okay.
Are you good?
No.
Um, so I wrote all these things down and I was like, most of these, I'm never going to
see the light of day and they haven't.
Uh, thank God.
Um, and then I was talking to one of my tutors about it and she was like, Oh, you know, like
have you ever considered going into self publishing and kind of, cause I mean, getting your work
out there is scary.
I mean, in any kind of creative industry, it's quite frightening to be like, here is
something I have made and here is all of who I am.
Yeah.
Or part of who I am.
Um, and then I was like, Oh, not really, but I mean, I'll give it a go.
So I wrote, uh, wither and bloom.
So that was the first book that I did.
Um, and I think there's like, it's like 60 something pages long.
I don't actually know.
Um, and so I wrote that and then I kind of told some people about it.
And then, cause I, some people commissioned me to write some stuff for them before that.
And they were like, Oh, like you can do that.
So do you want to do more of it?
And I was like, sure.
Um, so then I, yeah, self published it and people bought it and they seemed to really
like it.
I got a lot of fuck you.
I'm crying messages.
Uh, when people got their packages in the mail, which was quite nice.
Um, and everyone was quite upset, but they did like it.
Um, and then, which was nice.
And then they were like, when's the next one coming in?
And I was like, give me a hot meal.
So then I was obviously at uni and I'm like writing a fantasy book.
And then, um, that was like my other assignment, which is actually turned into a whole beast
of its own, which is very frightening.
And then, and then, yeah, I wrote sync or swim and I finished it last year and then
put that out as well this year, actually.
Oh my God, this year, what year am I in?
2020?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This year I put it out.
Um, and yeah, people have been reading it and enjoying it.
And it's kind of exciting to see the evolution of the writing itself and to sort of see how
obviously like having so much time in lockdown and having so many feelings and so many thoughts
and so much going on, um, like what came out of that.
Yeah.
And yeah, it was very interesting as well to see like my friends created processes.
So a lot of them like wrote all these like new songs and like did all this new music
stuff and then were filming things and like educating themselves or like upskilling themselves
during lockdown and like doing all these like beautiful magical things.
And then you're like, oh my God, what's going on?
I love it.
So and then now they're measuring their success going back to that on the things that they've
been able to do since then.
And they're like, oh my God, I've like, I went from here and now I'm here.
They might not have booked a big job or anything, but they've made a short film that they're
really proud of, or they've done like a vocal thing that they're really proud of, or they've
written something that they've sent me or whatever.
So it's like, it's very exciting.
That's great.
And like, I am a hundred percent with you on that because I mean like value of success.
And it's a conversation I have very regularly with Emily.
We sort of like sit down and have this sort of like, you know, probably once a week, a
day, but meaningful like, success and you know, and self-reflection of our careers.
But I remember like, you know, between the, especially the pandemic, I really just didn't
have anything.
I had all my projects, like I had this short film that ended up going nowhere.
And like the pandemic, I felt like it was the best thing that happened to that.
Because like you, I was going through a big breakup and then I was like, okay, this needs
to go on pause because this, but I've invested like a year and a half into it.
How do I kind of just go, this is on pause for the next however long.
And yeah, the pandemic happened, so it had to shut down and yeah, the podcast came out
of this and you know, and doing the thing.
But I think it's like, is that self-reflection when you can sort of like, a breakup does,
I think really kind of kick you into gear of doing stuff as well.
For sure.
Because it's a really good time to really reflect on life, I guess life choices and
life decisions, not through that other person, but more through how you handle situations
in that relationship and what you could have done and how they treated you or however you
treated them.
Like I think, I don't know, I always get very, this is my two cents for people who have been
in relationships.
If you've only had one, please have more.
Please have a variety.
Because one is, and I feel like people who've only ever dated once haven't really kind of
got a sense of who they are entirely.
Or they're very affirmed of who they are.
You could be, I completely know who I am.
This is me.
But I have been dating since I was about 17 and there are so many relationships that I've
had.
I'm like, oh, this really kind of like changed me.
And it really made me go, what do I like about myself?
And what do I don't like about myself?
And how do I want people to see, like especially with a partner in my life, it's like, how
do you want people to see your partner?
Because I've dated people that my friends didn't like and they've gone, that was a shit
person to date.
They've told me how the get go and my mom is a high critical of character.
And even she was like, no, shouldn't have.
Yeah.
That person's terrible.
Don't date them.
But you know, I feel like that's always kind of like a wake up call as well.
I mean, did you find, do you find that with in terms of your creative, like notion as
well on how to self reflect as well over the time?
I guess so.
So it's sort of like you're figuring out who you are separate from that.
I mean, like you said, some people are really good at being able to be like, this is who
I am.
This is my stuff.
Yeah.
Off I go.
And then some people, so the relationship I was in, we were together for seven years.
Wow.
Yeah.
So we started dating when I was like 18, 19.
Wow.
So that was a big.
Yeah.
So that was like, we grew up together.
Like it was our first, like for both of us, our big first relationship.
Like we still have a lot of love between us.
Like we still hang out and like we still chat and stuff.
It's beautiful.
That's very wholesome.
Love you.
But you know, it's like a very defining moment in that period of time because you know, a
lot of, I was seeing a lot of my friends go through those things.
So like getting into relationships, breaking up, sleeping with whoever and however many
people they wanted to go off sis.
But I was like in this longterm one person, very happy sort of situation until, you know,
we weren't able to sort of keep dating anymore and that was fine.
But then, yeah, you kind of like, oh, fuck, like my whole, like you were my life for,
like we saw each other every day.
Like we lived not that far from, we lived like 10, 15 minutes from each other.
So it was like we were always together, not in like a suffocating way, but it was like,
we were always together.
We were always like hanging out, doing stuff.
Our friends were combined.
So yeah, it was sort of like a very strange and because it was the first breakup as well
that I'd sort of had as an adult, I guess, air quotes adult.
You know, you're kind of like, oh my God, like what the fuck is going on?
Like I have no idea.
Like the world is spinning in a different direction.
Like I have no idea what's going on.
And so you're kind of trying to recalibrate your own life, I suppose.
And you're trying to recalibrate like where you sit because you were in a pair for so
long and you're like, what's, what's it like now?
Like the world is scary.
What what's out there?
I don't know.
I still feel that now.
Oh my God, what's out there?
I know.
But yeah, you kind of, it does kind of get you to be a little bit introspective or maybe
in my case, a little introspective about it.
But like, um, you kind of do think about these things and you are sort of using that time
to obviously like, you know, heal from this big life change and everything.
And you're kind of figuring out all these different things, but it's also like, oh,
okay.
Yeah.
I don't know how to describe it.
You're just like, oh, like it's, I mean, it's bad, but it's not that bad.
Yeah.
I get that entirely.
I think, yeah, like it happened to one of my friends, they were together for like 15
years, 14, 15 years, like since they were in high school.
And um, yeah, when that breakup happened, because I'd known both of them for like four
or five years, it was kind of emotionally destructive for the group.
Like everyone had a, you know, a cry about Hannah.
And everyone's got an opinion, whether it's a good or bad.
Yeah, I know.
Um, and, but it was also like, it was one of those relationships that like, it didn't
end well.
And I think it could have ended better.
Um, don't my ma'am just re rejigging myself.
You can comfy.
Yeah.
I'm going to let you get comfy.
Sorry.
I like to sit like a pretzel, like I pretzel myself in.
I love that.
That's great.
Sorry.
I'm actively listening.
I know it was more just a thud.
Sorry everyone.
Um, yeah, it was like a huge, you know, huge breakup.
And I think, um, you know, it was a very messy one.
And I think that really kind of shifted a little bit.
Whereas I think it was a very clean one.
I know it was, you know, when you get to a certain point of relationships and time, it's
so hard to keep them always clean.
For sure.
Like, and be like, oh yeah, definitely.
This is appropriate.
This breakup is going to work.
Like nothing flawless is going to ever work that way.
And.
Cause that was like with us, we were like, um, you know, we're very much in love with
each other.
And it was just sort of like, I don't know, like we kind of, I think we needed to break
up to kind of grow up a little bit in like our own sort of way and figure out ourselves
a little bit more so that we could become adults loose loosely.
Um, yeah, I was about to say, I'm a giant child.
You know, I think it was sort of, if we, if we were still dating now, I don't think it
would have been a very healthy thing because we wouldn't have had that time to grow up.
And we've spoken about this, him and I, you know, that like it sucked so much at the time
and it was like, Oh, we should get back together.
Like this really, I miss you so much.
And then it was like, yeah, same, but also no.
Yeah.
So it was very like, it was a bit, it was a little bit messy for a while.
And then we're just like, we need to become our own person and then we can become friends
and then we can see what happens.
Yeah.
And then we're just now friends and it's great.
That's great.
Yeah.
I mean, it is always like, you need that separation before you can kind of like, Oh yeah, wander
back into each other's lives and be like, this is totally normal.
Yeah.
I mean, it's still sometimes a little bit awkward because you're like, Oh, I don't really know
like how to, like when we first started hanging out as friends again, we're like, Oh, I don't
really know like how to behave around you.
Like it was a little bit like a first day.
Oh yeah.
And it was like, it was, it was quite cute because we were both just like, Oh, Hey, how
are you going?
What's up?
But now I just like, Hey man, like, what are you up to?
Like, what's your dating life like, like, you know, little things like that.
And then, yeah, it's just funny because it's not out of a place of obviously like, you
know, I want to know what you're doing.
Like blah, blah, blah.
That's absolutely insane.
It's more just like, how are you doing?
Like, are you happy?
Like, I want to know that you're okay.
And if you're ever not okay, you can tell me.
Like, I mean, he sent me a message the other day and he was just like, Hey, I've got some
tickets to this show.
Do you want them?
And it was like this total out of the blue, like hadn't spoken to him for a while, like
message.
And I was like, Oh, I'm actually in New South Wales.
He's like, Oh my God, tell me about it.
He's like, what are you doing?
He's like, why are you up there?
And I was like, why aren't you going to the show?
He's like, Oh, it's just a footy thing.
And I'm like, tell me about it.
So it's nice that you can kind of come back to that like friendship place because that's
how we started.
We were friends and then ended up dating for a very long time.
Oh, yeah.
This is very wholesome.
Yeah.
It's very wholesome now.
It wasn't so much when it was like a turbulent time, like it was a little bit touch and go
for a moment.
Yeah.
No, that's always fair.
I mean, like, I think out of all my exes, I'm really only friends with one.
Yeah.
It's, it doesn't always work.
And look, it's not for the lack of trying.
Like my brother's the same as well.
I think he's, he is friends with like two of his exes.
He's better though than, than most people.
I think it's because also though, like we were always friends with, you know, the person
before we dated.
And that's important, I think for like healthy relationships to kind of flourish that way,
because if you just kind of, I mean, you want to like them.
Yeah.
I mean, like it's one of those things that's like, I can be attracted to someone and like,
like, I'm not kidding.
I've had one night stands and everything, but like, I definitely think that in terms
of longevity for sure.
And if I want to date someone, it's like, I have to really know them because that's
an entirely different thing to be like, Oh, okay, cool.
Yeah.
Let's know each other and let's actually talk.
And then, cause I've definitely been on like, you know, uh, the wonderful worlds of updating
and they, they're terrible.
I'm frightened of that.
Don't, don't.
It's just because people don't know what the fuck to say.
And also this is going to sound like so bad, but I feel I'm the ultimate, not the ultimate,
but I'm a giant catfish because I know, like, I know for a fact that if I have makeup on,
I look like a normal human being.
Like I get that.
Confirm or deny.
I'm not saying anything.
You heard it here first.
But like 90% like most of the time I look like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like
a, like most of the time I look like a, like a someone's 12 year old little brother.
Like I'm not like, cause I, if I, you know, like put in effort, people are like, who the
fuck is that?
Like what the fuck is going on?
Like I get it.
If I did my hair, my God, the world will end.
But like, but it's just like, and then people meet me and they're like, you don't look like
that.
Yeah.
And I'm like, yeah, I know, babe.
I am aware.
I'm aware.
I don't look this good.
Yeah.
And like, babe, do you want to know why, because I didn't have a team.
I didn't have someone else doing all of this for me.
I mean, that's always like the way, um, about, cause I want to, I do want to bring us onto
modeling as well.
Like, I know it's a horrifying topic, but I do think that out of the years that I've
done photography, my dad's a photographer, like, um, so he used to work for, he used
to work for magazines.
He did band covers and stuff.
And he's been, you know, multiple celebrities.
And he says like the nicest ones to work with were like David Bowie and Robin Williams,
um, you know, the actor and comedian who's, um, and he was like, these people are just
great because they're actually nice and they're human.
They're not just an asshole to you.
Um, and I also think that then he worked for lonely planet.
And so my dad's very good at dealing with people and a lot of different personalities,
which you know, it's very tricky.
It's such a hard skill to have like a genuine.
And it's so funny because he's the opposite at home.
When he's at home, he has no idea how to deal with anything outside when he's in work mode.
He's great.
I'm like, how the hell are you two different?
Um, it's like chalk and cheese.
You just don't, you know, I'm like, what?
Um, but yeah, it's, I think with modeling, especially it's something that I'm very sort
of very regiment on, especially when I do photography and stuff is I don't augment photos.
It's like in terms of skin, you know, I might like remove acne if it looks completely like
this, the person is playing, please just fix my skin.
This little acne, but I don't sit there and just go, you know what I'm going to air brush
you and augment how your waistline looks.
And you know, it's that's the side of modeling.
I hate it's very damaging.
Yeah.
Like how did, how were you when you went into it?
Um, so I kind of fell into it actually, um, from a great high, from a great high, my giraffe
and roller skates collapsing and falling into, um, I was studying in LA when I was 21, um,
which was wild.
And then I, we were, we were having this like dinner thing.
And then one of my mentors was like, have you ever thought about modeling such an LA
thing to say?
I was about to ask.
Have you ever thought about modeling?
Um, and I was like, no.
And I was like, yeah, not really.
And they're like, oh, we should give it a go.
Like, you know, you've got, you know, I had really long hair at the time, so I looked very
different.
Um, they're like, you know, you've got very long hairs, like very beautiful hair.
You've got, you know, like a look about you, something interesting going on.
What does that mean?
Um, and you know, you're quite tall, so you could got like quite a lot going on.
I love that you used a lot going on.
Just re reaffirming.
Um, and so I was like, oh, okay.
Like whatever.
And so I was traveling around America and I was like looking for stuff to do.
So I applied to, to be a hair model, a hair model, hair model.
Yes.
Everyone thinks I say hand model and I don't really know why, but I'm, I was a hair model
first.
Um, so I kind of fell into it that way, um, and they cut off all my hair.
They died at bright red and I had a David Bowie mullet for two and a half years.
Wow.
Yeah.
It was great.
It was like, it was such a fun haircut.
And they like, I got a lot of work up here in Sydney doing hair modeling because they
are into quirky little things like that.
So a lot of photo shoots, like runway stuff, a lot of like sitting on stage while someone's
cutting off your hair and bleaching your eyebrows.
Like it's a whole situation.
Yeah.
So the last time I was here, actually I had my, it was like, there's not even a color
in this room that I can kind of describe to you.
Maybe that like Fox color.
There's like a, you guys can't say this, but there's like a painting of a Fox.
Did you do that?
No, my, one of my best friends did.
Oh my God.
It's fantastic.
I know she gave it to me for a birthday present.
I love it.
I love it too.
It's so sweet.
So like the color of the Fox's fur, that's what color my hair was.
So for those of you listening at home, think of a fluorescent highlighter in orange.
That's wow.
Yeah.
So that like, it was bright and then I had no eyebrows.
They just bleached them blonde.
It was an absolute look.
I'm not going to lie to you, but they didn't bleach them back.
Sorry, dye them back for when I went home and I was, I mean, I am still very pale, but
I was a lot paler then.
So it was like, I was like white, white.
So you were, you were essentially just reflective.
It was a lot.
So, and yeah, there was so much going on.
I can tell like, I got off the plane and I like landed at home and I'm waiting.
My mom came to pick me up and I had no eyebrows, flaming orange hair, flaming orange hair.
And it was like, it was a look and she, I like knocked on the window for it to like,
let me in and she's like, Oh no.
Like she's waving like, no, at me.
Cause she thought I was just some random trying to get in the car.
And I was like, roll the window down.
And she was like, Oh my God.
So she's like, yes.
And I was like, mom, open the door.
And she's like, Oh my God.
Who's this?
My child.
She was like, what happened?
Cause I had like a hoodie on as well.
So I took the hoodie off and she was like, she's like, it's bright.
So yeah, it was crazy, crazy time, but modeling had its positives and negatives.
I'm not going to lie.
It was a very educational experience.
I suppose there were a lot of parts of it that I loved and I still love to this day.
I love creating things.
I love making stuff and I love artistry and I love watching people create these, you know,
different worlds and sets and costumes and hair and makeup.
And so I love it.
It's so fun.
But then there's also like the dark side to modeling that I don't appreciate.
So there was a long, when I was doing runway stuff, I mean, it's not, it's not done as
much anymore, if at all.
I'm not too sure.
I'm probably, I don't know.
I haven't been in that world for quite some time, but they would stand there and they'd
pick you apart.
And so they'd like pull on you and be like too big, too small, less more, you know, like
different things like that.
And, you know, you had to be a certain size and you had to stick within measurements.
And thankfully a lot of modeling has moved away from that because it's very, very detrimental.
It's very, very harmful.
And it's very, very gross and very, very mentally taxing and damaging for a lot of people, especially
young people that are getting into it and then, you know, experiencing all these things.
But yeah, so parts of it were very, very hard and very, very upsetting, but for the most
part it was, it was a big joy.
So I still enjoy doing it and it's very fun.
And it's, you know, I get to work with some very interesting people and see some very
interesting ideas come to life.
And, you know, I've had amazing opportunities because of modeling and I've got to work with
some amazing brands and some amazing people and see some like amazing places and stuff.
But yeah, it's not really something that I do as much because I'm like old now.
I'm old and ancient.
Which is like crazy to say, but for a lot of the, a lot of things they're like, ah,
I mean, I don't really understand.
I mean, I look 16 most of the time, so you tell me.
Um, but yeah, they're like, oh, I was about to say six, but you know, just take the one
off.
Um, very tall, six year old.
Hello.
But yeah, like a lot of the time people are like, oh, you just like, you're outside of
the age bracket.
Yeah.
And I'm like, but I have a baby face.
What do you mean?
I don't know how old I am.
So I don't know.
It's, it's crazy.
Yeah.
It's very fun.
I love it.
I think it's just a crazy job.
I, I, it's an, it's an odd job.
I think it's also like, um, you know, especially when people are young, you know, they think
it's very glamorous.
Yeah.
I don't think it's cause we show the glamorous side of it.
Um, but it's very hard.
And I think that's a misconception.
A lot of people have, like when I, and this just goes to show what having older brothers
is like.
But when I first started modeling and I was kind of doing it more regularly, my brothers
are like, what do you do all day?
And I was like, what?
And they're like, do you just like stand around?
They're like, what do you, what, what do you mean?
And they're like, we know you, like you're not a model sort of thing.
And I'm like, yeah, fair enough.
It's like, we don't know what you do, but it's not.
Yeah.
They're like, it, my brother says this to me even now.
He's like, it genuinely amazes me that people pay you money to like, for like how you look.
And I'm like, don't worry.
It shocks me too.
Isn't that the weirdest thing as well?
It's like, you know, the, the world and what we value.
But it's also just like, cause he's like, I know you and he's like, you look like a
fort.
He's like, I don't get it.
Obviously like sibling love, but he's like, he's like, it's just so he's like, I tell
people, you know, like my sister's an actor and a model and they have this image of you
in their mind.
And he's like, you know, they like people at his work be like, oh, you know, do you
have siblings?
He's like, oh yeah.
I have a brother and a sister.
Oh, what do they do?
And then he's like, you know, I go into a blah, blah, blah.
And he's, and they're like, oh, what, what do you mean?
She's a model and actor.
Can we say what's on that work?
And then he'll show them and they're like, oh my God, crazy.
You don't look alike at all.
And he's like, I know.
And then he's like, but then I see you and you look like you've been dragged through
a hedge backwards.
He's like, what do you mean?
He's like, it's honestly like so wild to me.
This makes my brother sound really mean.
He's not, he does love me.
I promise.
And he's like, he's like, it's just so crazy to me.
Cause obviously like you grow up together and you see, I mean, even if it's like a friend
of yours, like some of my friends are like models and I'm like, but I've seen you in
like all stages of your life.
It's so crazy to me that this is a job that we have.
I mean, obviously you're hot.
Like I get it, but like, but it's just, I don't know.
It's just, it's so strange.
It's true as well, and I think it's like, it's interesting as well because of the way
it influences, you know, cause I do know some young people who are sort of very like, you
know, in that 15 to like 14, 15, 16 age bracket and they're very unlike looking up to all
the women going, they're very glamorous.
They're very sexy.
I'm like, yeah, there is that aspect, but don't think that they look like that all the
time.
Like you're allowed to be messy.
You're allowed to like, you're allowed to be a human being.
And it's very important.
And I feel like we forget that, especially with modeling the way it reflects, because
it's all about, you know, not looking, you know, like looking glamorous, but then what
does glamorous mean?
Cause I'm like, you know, the first time I, the second time actually I ever got headshots,
one of my amazing friends, Claudia Butters did it and she, I went out to her place and
she was just like explaining to me like, okay, so lean back, but I know this is going to
feel uncomfortable, but it will make your posture look good.
And I was like, had my arms back there looking really strange and I was like, this hurts.
And she was like, and showed me the phone.
I was like, oh yeah, that does look good.
Why does that feel like contortion though?
That is literally like, we put ourselves in weird uncomfortable positions for angular
benefit.
I know, but it's, it's because the camera, the way a camera perceives information doesn't,
you know, look natural.
If we are in a natural position, it doesn't look because it just looks, yeah, it looks
more bizarre to be normal or normal or natural symmetry.
It's like, you got to sort of feel symmetrical or at least within the lines of the field,
but you're not like you're in the second, third, or like, yeah.
And I find it fascinating because like having done, and that's why like as a photographer,
I go through all my photos and I go, I hate that one.
I hate those.
I'm just overanalyzing everything.
And you know, whether, whether I've worked with friends who are models or not.
And like, I think the thing is like always trying to, it's such a trial and error when
you're a photographer as well, because you've got to work with people and it's, I think
it's also, you know, I think people go, oh, they're a great photographer.
And then you go, oh, why did you take like 400 photos?
Yeah.
You're only going to get 10 or 20 of these because I hate the rest or this was a trial
or this was, you know, but they think that because when you take so many, it's like filming,
when you do so many texts, they don't understand the technical aspect that has gone into the
process of what you're thinking.
And then they, um, I love this when you give people the photos and then they up.
Like the ones that you don't like and you're like, cool.
Thank you so much.
That's just my work out of my, yeah, I know.
I'm like, okay, I hate that one.
I hate that one.
Oh, that one has not been color graded.
Oh, that's great.
Oh, they've edited it themselves.
Some of them I've sent images to some people and they've gone through their own, like,
you know, like low res JPEGs and like, sure, go for it.
But you know, do you find it hard to direct people?
Sorry, this is the interviews turned.
What in general?
Well, I mean, sort of in like a photography way, like, do you find, I'm, this is just
a heads up for you.
I'm a very lazy model because I like to lounge.
Oh, no, I, I love directing people.
I, well, because I do directing, like I do.
I do.
So it's something that you sort of, yeah, you feel confident and you enjoy doing.
Yes.
Great.
Sorry, that wasn't like a criticism.
I was just genuine.
That was a genuine, no, I love directing people.
I think it's also like, um, I've been obsessed since I was a kid.
It's one of those things that I just love.
It's, um, I think it's because I like telling stories and I like, but I love people.
I'm such a people lover, um, always have been.
Um, and especially because like, I was talking to him with one of my best friends the other
day and we were talking about like, um, just, you know, female filmmakers and everything
and just a sort of our praise for it.
And I was talking to her and being like, I would love to just have like a 99% crew where
it's just within like, you know, like a massive conglomerate.
Um, but I also just think that like I grew up with female friends and I grew up with
like, so I'm very used to that, like, you know, energy on, uh, in my day to day life.
And I find people very easy to write because, you know, it's like that social experiment
when you're a kid where it's like, if you can talk to the opposite sex, I, life becomes
so much easier because you'll realize everyone's human.
Like whereas I think from astigmatism, like when we're kids, we're told that we've got
to be in these gender boxes and everything.
And I think now that I'm an adult and I have never fitted the gender box at all in my entirety
of my life, um, which is fantastic.
Um, but yeah, it does make directing very easy because then I'm just like, oh, okay.
You do this, you do this.
You're a person.
Yeah.
You're a person, you know, like your hunk of me.
So don't do that.
But I mean, like it literally is like the funnest thing to do.
And I think, um, you know, and then there's depends on people, how good they are at taking
direction.
Yeah.
That's your another Kelly's heel because if you're very good at giving direction, but
people don't want to hear it.
Tricky.
Yeah.
Somewhat tricky.
It's so tricky.
And I've worked with a lot of actors over the years and some like have definitely told
me, I don't think you understand.
No, you're like, oh, and I'm like, that's wonderful.
I'm sure I don't.
Sure.
I've.
But also let's just give this a go.
Um, and I've sat in many meetings where I've been told that, uh, you know, that, oh, um,
I don't think you understand the script.
And I'm like, what the script I wrote or the script I've been working on for a year.
Yeah, sure.
I've got no idea.
Yeah.
I just read it two minutes ago and I was like, cool.
This is a great piece of art.
Let's give it a go.
So I've definitely worked with that side of the, the cord and the wall.
Like do you, what do you enjoy about being directed or like, you know, what, what's throwing
it back at you?
What do you enjoy about the art?
Well, I think like I enjoy the, I love it so much when you go into a room or you go
into a project and people are like, okay, show us your interpretation.
And then we'll sort of have a moment to kind of like think and dissect and digest that.
And then it's like, what is it that I've missed?
So like, what did I not see or what did I not maybe have a look at in my process or
whatever.
And like, how can we then, so then, you know, can you show us this?
And then it's like, oh, okay.
You showed us this, but you also showed us that.
So let's find, it's just sort of like picking pieces and working as a collaboration, which
is quite exciting.
And a lot of the work that I do is, is that way.
You know, I'm very, very lucky with the people that I get to work with and the people that
I know.
And you know, the creative people that I surround myself with, it's very collaborative and it's
very much like, let's just have a go.
Like let's have a play.
Like let's just see what we've all understood from this thing.
And then let's see how we can bring some other stuff into it.
So I think that's very exciting.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And I mean, sometimes directors are like, I want this and this only.
And you're like, okay.
I, yes, I am the puppet and you are the master.
Let me give you that.
And then it's fine because it's like, they've clearly got a very strong vision and that's
okay.
And they want a very specific thing.
So you give them that they're happy, you're happy.
And you've gone into it, understanding that you're not like, oh, this is a collaborative
project.
And they're like, no.
And then you get upset.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a very collaborative person.
I always have been, but I have definitely worked with people who have, you know, like
a very singular vision, which is fine.
I think it's also because I was an editor, like I've edited a lot of short films and
every time I, I always seem to have clashes with directors who have a particular vision
because then I have to tell them, unfortunately that they haven't covered that vision in the
actual shots.
And that's my favorite thing to do because then they tell me how wrong I am and that
it will work.
And I'm like, no, it won't.
This is not how it does.
So like, I definitely think like, you know, it comes from a lot of different experiences
that I've had, like whether it's been acting, directing, editing, like I've sort of worked
in both pre, you know, production and post and done it all.
So I think there's like that advantage, but then no one likes being told they're wrong.
And it's the worst thing to be like, how do you handle?
Yeah.
Like what do you do with that information?
Yeah.
And it's kind of like, you just have to deal with it.
I don't know, it's a very weird sort of thing because you're like, okay, well I'm involved
in this now.
Yeah.
So I kind of, if there's no, you kind of can't be too precious about it.
I mean, if there's something that, so from like an actor's perspective, if there's something
that like you really want and that you feel is like going to help either you or the production,
then you can fight for it.
Great.
No worries.
But if there's like no wiggle room and they're just shutting it, you kind of just have to
go, okay.
Cause it's like at the end of the day, it's like not up to you sort of thing.
Like you're just, you're, you're a hired body to bring to life a story that someone else
has made and that's fine, but you kind of, you can't get too in your head about it.
Otherwise you're going to be like, yeah.
I mean, a hundred percent.
And I think that people get very like rigid in what they think the story needs to shape.
Like, and I think it also goes back to when you're writing a script and drafting phrases
and everything and I've sat through multiple drafts and when you read the first draft,
you're like, this is terrible.
This is always going to be terrible.
It's the first draft is just idea dump.
And then you refine and you refine and you refine.
But I do think that like it's the Achilles heel as well, because when you're, you know,
if you're an actor who's been at the beginning of a project and you've read like something
like 20 different troughs, it can be annoying.
It can be annoying as a creative to be like, where's the story going on?
How many drafts do I need to really read?
Before I understand, before it's a lot.
Just give it to me when it's done.
Done.
But I mean, it depends.
Like also, I think, I think because I'm one of those people who loves knowing all the
process and everything, I think it's like, that's my obsession.
Not everyone's the same as me.
I acknowledge that.
Some of my really good friends just say to me, it's like, just tell me what to do.
Yeah, just tell me when to turn up.
Give me what I need to read.
Thank you so much, bye.
Love them dearly.
They criticize me because I'm very over it.
But yeah, it's one of those things that I think when you do love a process and you do
love story, stories particularly, or you do love, you know, expanding ideas, then, you
know, there's certain opportunities that, you know, I think I've definitely given people
that necessarily they never would have been given on actual television sets or, you know,
like film sets because they've, you know, they're like, our casting directors see me
as a particular look.
And I'm like, okay, well, cool.
That's nice.
What do you want to do?
Yeah.
Give you a science fiction character.
Give you a horror character.
Like give you a villain role.
Yeah, what's something you've always wanted to do?
Let's make that thing.
Yeah.
Great.
And I think that, you know, people really forget that.
Like they, so that's kind of the thing I love about directing.
That's my like slice of the pie.
Yeah, that's so fun.
I really would like to give it a go.
My friend Tim, he's an incredible director and I look up to him so much.
And we work on quite a few projects together and everything.
And watching the way that he and my friend Brandon is the same, the way that they interact
with people and the way that they guide people into not what the director wants, but like
what the story needs is very, very inspiring.
And I would love to like do that because I'm, the unit that I'm working on at uni at the
moment is script writing, which is very funny.
Because that's all I do all day.
So I'm like, I'm done.
So being able to like create a script from nothing and like go through that whole process
and then thinking about it in the longterm of like, who am I going to cast in this?
Yeah.
Who am I going to get to help me?
How am I going to direct it?
Yeah.
Like, cause that's something that I want to have a go at doing.
And why not with my own project?
Like that would be so fun.
A hundred percent.
It's just like more like skills and more things and like try, maybe I'll hate it.
Maybe I'll be like, fuck directing.
I don't want to do that ever again.
It sucks.
Or I'll be like, Oh, put my little director hat on, get myself a chair.
I'm ready to go.
You know, like, I dunno.
So it's just like one of those things of like just playing, just having a play.
And that's so fun about being creative.
It's just playing with stuff.
I think it's also like, um, with, and particularly with like directing or script writing or anything,
you are studying the story as you say from scratch.
And then I think like, that's the thing I love about directing as well is like guiding
the story because what a script tells you and then what actually ends up on screen or
like, you know, um, you know, if it's ready play on a audio or anything is different to
what the script initially for sure, like outlining is because tonally it depends who you cast
and then like what flavor that they bring as well.
And you constantly can't be like a hundred percent in your vision.
Like you can't be like, I've locked everything off because it could be budgetary restraints.
It could be like a whole bunch of different things.
And I think that one of the things, the challenges that have come across is definitely after
casting and after every sort of decision you've made, um, is kind of pinpoints to the end
result.
And I think that, you know, it's so interesting as well because I feel like there is, um,
I've worked with a lot of different people and a lot of different like, um, you know,
technical people as well.
And I think there's always pros and cons to everyone you work with, you know, like, um,
but like any business, but when you find the people who love making the things that you
love making, yeah, you're like, Oh, hello.
Yeah.
And you're like, I'm giving you.
Hey, um, yeah, it's like, you just, you get excited.
And I think that there's always like team members and, and performers and people that
I know.
I'm like, Oh, hands down.
It doesn't matter.
The project, I'll just be like, nah, you come, you come and do something.
Because you're going to bring something that I love.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, when it's, when it's very similar visions, um, like I'm a big
horror fan.
I'm a big like, um, but it was like, uh, you know, the prime example of like the Jenga
trailer, which I was telling you about earlier.
I think with that, I wrote that so long ago.
And like, ever since I conceived it, I was like, cool.
I've written an outline for a lot of jokes that could either work or fail.
But you know what I do also love is people to bring their own to this because it's so
interpretive to how you perform.
And also like what people suggest, cause I was always imagining filming that over two
days and people going, cool, I have a great idea for a shot.
Let's do it.
Like just flowing with it because the more, because it's a trailer and it can be like
two minutes length.
Yeah.
It can be as ludicrous and as much filmed and you know, you just grab a few lights and
you know, you might just put it all together and see what happens.
Yeah.
And I think that's half the fun because it makes me feel like back in the days when I
used to watch college humor or something on YouTube and the ridiculousness that they filmed
stuff and like, you know, their backyard or, you know, there's a bunch of comedy sketches
I watched.
It was just like low budget, funny, silly, goofy time.
And I feel like people forget that now with, you know, like people are quite serious, which
is wild to think about when I'm a comedian.
So that's like my, that's like my main situation, I guess.
And like a lot of the things that I'm being quirky, comedian girl.
I think it's just this haircut to be perfectly honest with me.
It's the only thing they're laughing at.
Yeah.
They're like the Lord Farquaad.
But like, you know, like, I'm amazed that name passed.
Oh my God.
So funny.
Shout out to Dreamworks.
Imagine the meetings they had and just went, our kid's going to get this.
You know what, who this will be funny for?
Adults.
But yeah, like you look at, you know, like comedy stuff or like little sketches and stuff,
and you can kind of tell when it's not like a playful time and people have taken it really
seriously.
Yeah.
And you're like, just, just get weird, man.
Like just get a little, have a little silly, get the sillies out.
Go nuts.
Yeah.
Because like that's where some of like your best work comes from is just, I think at least
because, you know, going back to collaboration, a lot of sort of things that you can kind
of work on in like the comedy sense is improv.
So I'm a big like improv comedian.
And a lot of the, like, so when I did comedy festival, I was doing a play and you know,
I just off the cuff, like probably because I forgot my dialogue.
Sorry, Nathan and Chloe.
That was my bad.
But you know, like I would just improvise these jokes and then I'm like, great, let's
add them in.
They're like, we, we didn't think of that because that's not in our wheelhouse or like
that's not something that would come into anyone else's brain, but yours.
And that's really, really important, I think in just like in general, but also in like
creative sort of industry way is like, there are certain ideas that will only come into
your brain and that is so valuable to a project or to a group of people or to who you are
doing your creative thing and like embrace that and like, get it out, get it from your
brain out of your mouth and let's see what happens.
Let's see what sticks because it's like, that's so valuable.
And it's like, you're giving something that no one else has seen or no one else has thought
of and it could work or it could be a total piece of shit and that's fine.
And that's, that happens to me quite a lot and that's okay.
But yeah, it's like, it's so exciting when you're doing that collaboratively and like
doing just silly goose things.
Yeah.
And I think it's like, you know, people forget it when they take everything so, so seriously.
I think we're all in, especially in this day and age trying to make films that go into
festivals and go into like big things.
Fit into that box or the parameter.
Yeah, I know.
And I've had, every time I suggest a film to some people, they go, oh, so what festivals?
And I'm like, I haven't even thought that far ahead.
I was just thinking, do you want to have a laugh?
I haven't got the cast down.
I haven't even got a script.
I've got this brief idea.
I have a thought process.
Would you like to join?
Oh no, it's not, it might not win me an Oscar.
Great.
Sure.
Like if you think always like that, you're never going to do anything.
It's so specific.
And it's also very subjective.
And I think like, you know, people that I know get very bogged down by reviews.
And I mean, this happened to me also.
You get sort of, you, I mean, you try not to, but it's the sick part of your brain.
You're like, Oh my God, about me, I'm going to read about me.
I love me.
Have you ever typed yourself into Google?
Absolutely.
Of course I have.
Are you insane?
But yeah, like you read a review and it's, you know, some of it's positive or some of
it's not positive.
And you're like, Oh, like you're attacking me and my art and what I've worked my whole
life to do.
And you're just a critic.
You're just a journalist.
You're just a whoever.
But then you step away from it and you're like, it's just a person doing their job.
Like you're just doing your job and it's all subjective.
So it's like, I mean, it's like watching a cooking show, right?
So you're watching master chef and you're like, Oh, that looks really good.
And the judge is like, this tastes like shit.
I hate this meal.
And you're like, Oh my God, what do you mean?
Ow.
But it's like, it's nothing to do with you.
And like one person could love it.
One person's like, this is the grossest meal I've ever had in my life.
I'm like, God, yes.
And then the other person's like, what the fuck?
I hate this.
Yeah.
Get away from me.
Never cook this meal for any living human being again.
And it's just like, it's all subjective and you kind of have to take, take everything
with a grain of salt, I guess.
And not get like too bogged down and things being really negative.
I mean, sometimes they are, but what can you do?
Oh, a hundred percent.
And I think that some people are like, Oh my God.
This is my self-worth tied up in this three star review that I got in a back catalog magazine
thing.
You know, like don't worry about it.
You know what I learned not to give a shit about is IMDB ratings.
It's like, and a lot of the time it's just people with like, I mean, not everybody, obviously
there are some very valuable things on there, but you can kind of tell when it's just people
that have nothing else to do.
Yeah.
And you're like, okay.
So you hated it because like there was too many explosions.
Cool.
Watch something else.
Don't watch an action movie.
Yeah, I know.
It's also like, you know, everyone comparing themselves on the star meter and, you know,
and stuff like that.
So like I've not worked on a project.
I don't think that has, I remember one, um, uh, like video that I did for a friend got
quite a few views and it was positively received.
But I mean, like when you compare yourself to getting laurels or like, you know, how
many awards and you know, people talk about awards constantly and they're like, Oh, my
recognition has been seen.
I'm like, that's lovely.
But I think, you know, some of the best films that I've seen and some of my friends have
done have been done by themselves.
Like, you know, whether it's out of lockdown or anything like that, like, um, you know,
you know, people do really well, but I think when you're constantly going IMDB, everyone
thinks it's shit or YouTube comments tell me I'm shit.
And I'm like, they've got nothing, as you say, they've got nothing better to do than
just complain.
And it's like, cool.
Yeah.
Because, um, I was in a web series and there were lots of comments from people and not
all of them were very nice.
Like, and you know, they would DM me very unhelpful, very not very nice things that
were very gross.
And you're like, okay, one don't just don't do that.
Yeah.
Because a lot of it was just unnecessary.
But then you're like, why are they saying these things?
Like what is it that has potentially come up, like activated something within them to
cause them to feel this way?
Or is it just cause they've got nothing better to do?
Like are you projecting something out that they didn't feel comfortable seeing or that
they weren't ready to see?
Or are they just a troll?
You know, and also it goes back to that measuring of success as well, when you were saying about
like laurels and awards and things is like, because there's no, I was explaining this
to, or I was having this conversation with my mum not that long ago about there's no
real like parameters for creativity, which is amazing.
And there shouldn't be because creativity is absolutely unhinged.
But you know, there's no kind of definite thing.
Like if you have maybe like an office job, for example, which we've all had, you're
like, okay, so I've started here.
I got a promotion.
I got a raise.
I got another promotion.
I'm now doing this.
This is my title.
Yeah.
You don't have that with creativity necessarily.
You're not like, okay, well I've done a film.
I've done another film.
I'm on TV.
I'm back doing theatre.
I won an award or I didn't do any of those things.
I'm just doing whatever it is that you're doing.
Like there's no indication of like success or like how well you're going.
So it's like something you have to like self-regulate, I suppose.
And it's like, cool, you got some awards.
That's great.
I love that for you.
Amazing recognition.
Yes.
But that shouldn't be the only measure or the only kind of indicator of how well you're
doing because it's like you can win no awards and no one gives a shit like in that sense,
but you've got people from Norway and like Indonesia being like, oh my God, I saw you
in this thing.
How amazing is that?
And you're like, I'm Mr. Worldwide.
I've made it, baby.
Everyone's looking at my face now.
Yeah.
Like I've got, I've, I've managed to, for lack of a better word, like touch someone
in that creative way for something that I did as a piss take, for example.
And you're like, oh my God, how good's that?
I mean, yeah, it's, it's, I think it's like the same thing.
And I was having this discussion, you know, cause it's kind of like the thing that I battle
with all the time about like original content and copyrighted content.
And when you're making, you're making things that are like, you know, obviously because
and everyone's heard it around the podcast, but like when I do my doctor, like individual
stuff online, there's this big, there is a community there, but then like I've worked
on some episodes with people who've never watched the show under a million years and
like, cool, that's fine.
I'll give you a brief rundown, but then how much time do you have?
Five minutes.
Okay, cool.
I'll give you a sentence.
But then also at the same time I've, I've had, you know, other projects that, you know,
like haven't seen as, you know, being seen as many as the ones, you know, that I've done,
which already have a fan base.
Like, so I do think, and I think I always tell, especially with those projects, I tell
actors and I tell people who are, you know, first time working inside, this is probably
gonna not break a bank.
This is probably not going to be like, you know, everyone's going to see it.
Yeah.
You're going to have a fun time.
You're going to have a fun day.
You're going to film something, you go home.
It's literally just the coolest thing.
But I think when people take that as a very serious job, I'm like, that's when you take
the fun element out because like, obviously, you know, as performers, we want to do our
best or, you know, as creators, we want to do our best.
But I'm at the end of the day, these projects that I do, especially those ones, which, you
know, I know there's going to be no profit return or anything, other ones that I'm like,
yes, how can I technologically or think outside the box normally and throw challenges that
if like, say someone was paying me to do a big thing and they want it specifically, I'm
not going to think out of their curriculum box.
Like I'm going to stay within my parameters.
And these are projects that I don't have to do that.
But then people go, oh, you know, I've worked with people that's a lot of effort.
I'm like, yeah, but when do you get this level of creative freedom?
Like for sure.
When do you get the opportunity to play this much on your own terms and create the way
that you want to?
Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, when we're given that much power and people just don't know
what to do with it because they're so used to the like the regimented.
They're overwhelmed.
Yeah.
And then they're like, I need 10 minutes to think about it.
I'm like, you've got five.
You've got less.
Do heaps less thing quickly.
But I definitely think like we've got one shoot day up in October.
And I know that I talked to my DAP and I was like, cool.
It's going to be like a play.
We're going to sort of like have a lot of shots that move into another shot, not just
all rigid, like, you know, you're not going to just lock it off and sit there.
And he was like, cool.
Okay, done.
And I was like, cool.
You know, someone who's not just, you know, going to point, point and shoot.
I hate that mentality where you're not challenging yourself to always structure.
And especially when it's a long script, like we've got nine, we've got 10 pages to learn
and that's with seven characters.
That's a lot of cash.
So it is essentially is you have to keep moving and you know, in one day we're filming at
all and that like a wild dialogue is pretty easy to film.
It, you know, when you're on a roll, you can keep moving with the situation and it does
speed things up.
But I do fundamentally think that, you know, like, Oh, it has to be, you know, when we
learn the basic principles of filmmaking, everyone's like your master shot, your close
ups.
I'm like, that is cool and everything, but it's also very generic.
Like let's give it a bit of variety.
Yeah.
Let's see what we can come up with.
Because again, like you, sorry, sorry if you guys had that, that was my stomach rumbling.
I didn't even hear it.
Did you hear that?
No.
Oh, wow.
It's very loud to me.
Enjoy.
Um, I think also it's like, it's a good base to start from, but then it's like, what, yeah,
it goes back to that thing of like, what can you bring?
Like what, what have you seen that I may have missed because I'm doing 78 other different
things in this project, which I think is cool as well.
Cause you're like, Oh, DLP, you've got some ideas.
Bring them forth.
Let's see.
Let's have a go.
Let's just like, let's just throw some shit to the wall, see what sticks and then we'll
like go with that.
Yeah.
Cause you can always refine in the edit.
Yeah.
Or you can just film it again.
So crazy to think digital, but you can just do it again.
You know, you know what though, my favorite is working with, um, love some of my actors
who have been involved, but because of the pandemic and stuff, they're like, I've been
able to film with them, which is fantastic because they were going to go overseas.
And now I realized we could only do like one or two days of them.
So I'm really like, like rigid to times constraints.
I'm like, well, they're not fucking up.
But actually they're a good job.
So that's like the only stress is when people are like, I'm leaving the country and you're
like, fuck, just stick around.
Like just stay here.
I know you want a career over somewhere else, but now fuck it.
Like just stay out with me.
I'm the best.
But I think also like in terms of, you know, like being creative is, is also a business.
And this goes back to the modeling thing.
That's only just back into my head now is like, people forget that as a creative person,
you are a business and you are working to time constraints.
So you're working to a budget or you're working to parameters that are outside of your control
or like a health thing or deadlines or whatever.
And so it's kind of like in the back of your mind, that's always there.
Do you find that?
That when you're like creating something, cause I do, cause I'm like, well, I am a business.
So it's like, I need to be as healthy as possible all the time.
Otherwise I can't do my job.
And then like, what are you going to do?
It was, it was one of the biggest stresses.
So at the beginning of the year, I, um, you know, did a massive leg injury.
I tore my leg, um, um, my meniscus in my leg, which is the ligament.
Are you okay now?
Yeah, I'm fine now.
I'm about to do a bridge climb this afternoon.
So what do you fucking do?
I will not be joining because that absolutely terrifies me.
I do.
Okay.
Sorry.
Sidebar.
So many people have said to me, are you going to do the bridge climb when you're in Sydney?
I was like, I have a fear of heights.
Why would I do that?
Why would I, why would I subject my mind and body to walking up a very breezy thing and
I'm strapped in with a fucking carabiner.
Are you joking?
What are you saying?
It's pure, I will blow away my God.
It's insane.
I mean, I, many kudos and much respect to you that you're going on a bridge climb.
Um, but good grief.
I know, right?
Good grief.
Um, it was Emily's birthday gift to me.
So, you know, we were meant to do it in February and then my leg went so.
Yeah, sorry.
Go back to your leg.
I'm so sorry.
So I had a, I had a leg injury and then all my schedule for this year had to be pushed.
Like, um, and I don't think, you know, I had a lot of friends who were kind of like, Oh,
can't you work around your leg?
And I'm like, no, no.
I think that you, as someone who was being able-bodied for a majority of their life and
had this injury suddenly means they can't walk and they can't do anything independently
for, however, I think it was like eight weeks.
I couldn't do anything.
Like two months of my life was basically there, you know, physio and then, you know, um, doctor's
appointments and everything.
So, and, you know, I was going through the works and then, you know, I think about everyone
who's like, you know, actually does that on like a daily basis, you know, their own like,
um, lives where there is an ailment, um, or a condition that they've got.
And um, yeah, it was just, it was very eye-opening, but also it did make me feel very judgmental
with able-bodied people go, oh, you could just work around them.
Like, I don't think I can.
I don't think you know how I feel right now, but sure.
Fuck you.
It's like I, a couple of years ago, I slipped a disc in my back and I didn't know that I'd
slipped a disc in my back.
I thought I'd just pulled a muscle.
Um, turns out I didn't.
So I was, yeah, I was about to say classic.
So I was, um, pretty much unable to do anything for six months.
Like I couldn't walk by myself.
I couldn't sleep.
I wasn't able to like sit properly.
Like I couldn't do anything.
So it, yeah.
So you're very, and then people were like, oh, we need you to like model the scene.
Like, can you come shoot this thing with us?
Like, I just need you to film this tape really quickly or whatever.
And I was like, I can barely like function.
Yeah.
So it's, yeah, it kind of sounds awful to say, but it is very eye-opening, um, to kind
of understand because obviously like being able, as you said, able-bodied for the majority
of my life, you, you don't understand on a firsthand.
You can, you can empathize and you can be like, I, I see how this is difficult for you,
but I, I don't have that lived experience.
So I can't comment to your experience because it's inappropriate and rude.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, so it's kind of, it's very sort of like selfish way of, from other people,
at least being like, oh, well, you can just like work around it or you can, it'll take
like five minutes or like, it's okay.
Like don't worry about it.
We'll get you a chair.
And it's like, bro, I can't sit in a chair.
You're joking.
It's like my back is in agony, but sure.
Yeah.
I was like, I was literally hunched over like, like that.
Like it was like fully, like I was probably like five, it's cause I'm five 10.
So I shrunk down to like five, seven because I couldn't stand up straight.
It was insane.
Did you have to have surgery?
No, I just had a lot of physio and Valium.
How good is Valium?
Shout out to Valium.
Yeah, I know.
I'd suck it.
Um, this isn't an endorsement, by the way, only use it if you need it.
Please don't use it unless you need it, but it is very good.
Um, no, I definitely think that like, um, when I left the hospital, they were like,
here's some Endone and I'm like, Endone sucks.
My, I, I had an Endone, um, because I, I was in so much pain.
I was horrific and I was in my room on my bed and my brother, he's a paramedic and
he came to check on me and he was like, how are you doing?
And I was like, I can't feel my body, but my brain is awake.
And he's like, what?
I was like, help me.
Cause I was like, was zonked out of my mind and I just like, couldn't feel anything.
He's like, okay, it's kicking in.
I was like, I hate it here because I was like still fully conscious, but it was like having
sleep paralysis.
Like I just couldn't move.
Wow.
Okay.
That's kind of scary.
And I was like, hello.
And then I went to sleep.
He's like, I talked to you for five minutes.
I was like, what did I say?
He's like, I don't know.
I think you were delirious.
He's like, you were just like zonked on another planet.
He's like, I have no idea what you said.
He's like, you just kept talking at me and then you just fell asleep straight away.
And then I just left you cause I didn't know what to do.
I was like, you're a medical professional.
This is your job.
Yeah.
And you fail.
Help me.
All right.
Bye.
Yeah.
He was just like, yeah, she'll be right.
He's like, oh, she's sleeping.
Don't worry about it.
It's like now has to know what he's like at work.
No, he's great.
He's, he's a great, he's a great medical professional, but he was just like, you're my sister.
You're kidding.
He's like, I came back to check on you later and you were just like, and then I left.
That's the best reenactment of your sleep.
What can I say?
Acting?
Years of training.
Method.
You joke yet?
True.
I think that's a perfect point to wrap us up.
I like, I like that.
That's how this ends is maybe like catatonic and you'd be like, that's good.
That's the energy we need to leave the people.
I mean, I came in pretty much off the rails.
So yeah, I know this is going to sound really bad.
I'm actually a very calm, semi-normal person.
Most of the time I'm very relaxed.
I'm very, I think it's cause you, you're feeding off my cookie energy.
I think so, which is nice.
I must say, considering I have no idea what's happened by me.
I have no idea where I am, what I'm doing.
The state is crazy.
I love it.
Very happy to be here.
I'm glad you're like where the fuck am I?
What's happening?
Hello?
Help me.
Mom, come get me.
I'm scared.
My viewers are going to be so concerned.
I'm just kidding.
I'm having a great time.
This is just so, we're all silly.
Having a silly, silly time.
I just licked my mic.
Like I said, we're all having a very silly time.
Um, Dom, where can people find you on the wonderful internet?
Where can they stalk you?
On the line.
So you can find me at DominicShields, D-O-M-I-N-I-K-S-H-I-E-L-D-S.com.
And I have a variety of things on there.
Acting, modeling, my books are for sale on there.
I have a little writing program that's on there as well if you want to hang out with
me online or in real life, if you're in Melbourne.
And my Instagram handle is D-O-M-M-E-R-G-H-Z.
Dumbas.
I fucking love that.
It was, yeah, I don't know why that that was a nickname that I decided to create for
myself, but here we are.
We're all alive in 2014.
It's okay.
Is that how old that name is?
I think so.
Yeah.
It's been a hot moment.
I have an old email address called the centeroftheuniverse.com.
Oh my God.
I like don't know why I created it.
I created that when I was like 15.
Do you still have the password?
Fucked if I know.
I was going to say, just start using it.
I could be your new business email.
That would be amazing.
Interesting.
I don't know how many people like I'm like a true egotistic person now, but it's not
at all true.
I hope you've had a great time.
I've had the best time.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been really fun.
Thank you.
Thank you for traveling all the way down from Melbourne for a holiday.
Up?
Down?
Up.
Sorry.
Get your act together.
It's fine.
We're creative, not cartographers.
Don't worry about it.
I didn't.
I failed geography.
I'd like you to know.
Really?
Oh.
Shock.
Fuck.
But thank you very much.
I'm just kidding.
That was really savage.
Love you.
It was very fun.
Thank you so much for having me.
I hope you all enjoyed listening.
It was very fun to chat with you.
Thank you.
And I hope everyone had a fun episode listening to our little weird conversation.
And if you want to go and listen to plenty more weird conversations, you can check out
more episodes of The Things We Do.
They're available on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all weird people later.
Goodbye.
Are you going to pull your clothes off