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This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all of that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend Holly Fraser.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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I'm great.

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It's great to be here.

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Lovely to be talking to you.

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That sounded very like an official podcast intro.

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Yeah.

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I was like, wow.

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I wasn't prepared.

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I was going to say, even though I knew there would be an intro coming.

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Yeah.

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You're like, what do I say?

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Who am I?

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So Holly, because some people obviously on the internet who are listening to this episode

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will know who you are.

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Let's assume the majority don't.

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Yes.

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That's a safe assumption.

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Tell everyone on the internet who you are and what you do.

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Yes.

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So I know a bunch of different things.

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I grew up as an actor.

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So I started acting when I was about 10 and every now and then I still act, but I sort

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of don't pursue it as much as I used to.

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But I'm also a filmmaker.

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So I direct, produce, sometimes write and I first day day quite a lot as well and run

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a production company for corporate videos.

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Yeah.

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It's lots of different things.

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And I love doing lots of different areas of film because I think if I just did one, I'd

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get really bored.

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But yeah, but I'm currently doing a master's in directing at afters.

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So I am honing a bit more in on directing, but yeah, I'd certainly would always want

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to continue producing, always want to continue doing a bit of acting as well.

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Very checkable trades right there.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes.

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Because I remember years ago, I don't even know, I think I saw you perform in the Seymour

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Centre.

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Oh really?

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Uh huh.

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Like this was, I'm talking probably like 2018, 2019.

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Yes, something like that.

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Maybe 2017 even.

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Yeah.

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Potentially.

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I was working there at the time and it was one of those things that, you know, because

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you were in our show there, you get free stuff to watch.

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So you were in one of them and I was like, oh, who's that?

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Here's your name.

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Let's just Google who this is.

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And back then we were all kind of still in like the end of school, so no one really had

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much of a portfolio.

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Yeah.

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We were all just like, I hope someone notices me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, that play was, that was a great production and amazingly lives on.

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It's this collaboration I was part of where people from a bunch of different countries

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around the world came to Sydney and we made a show.

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So people from Portugal, Italy, Germany, French Canada, British Canada.

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I think that's it.

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I'm probably missing one country.

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Portugal, that's it.

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And then we made a show.

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We had 11 days to make it and then we were going to be going on stage after that.

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And we did, and it was actually a really great little piece about, it was a refugee story

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told through the eyes of a child.

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And we really lent on the fact that there were collaborators from all over the world.

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So there was people speaking different languages in it.

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And it was like, as the child, I played a 12 year old child in it.

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I didn't understand them.

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And it was kind of meant to be a metaphor for like when adults speak and the kids don't

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get it, but also different companies had specialties like physical theater or digital stuff.

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And we incorporated the strengths of each of those into the piece.

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And it was really unique and cool.

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And then that went on to go to Canada and Vancouver.

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It went to the Commonwealth Games.

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It also went to South Africa.

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Do you feel like there was a bit of surprise as well to kind of like stay with it for so

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long?

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Yeah.

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It's like, theater is different in Europe.

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And I think that that's so like, they have such a better perspective towards it where

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they really value theater and they find ways to make it happen, even though theater often

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doesn't bring in so much money and it's so hard to make and take so much time.

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But they have a lot more grants for it.

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They have a lot more emphasis on it.

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And they do so many really interesting things with it.

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Like there were stories I heard from some of the production companies involved where

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they would put the audience in the middle of two sides of theater so that the audience

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can decide where to look.

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Or they had a theater where when you enter the actual theater space, you have to duck

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down a little bit to get under the doorway.

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And then when you step up, your body opens up physically so that you're embracing theater.

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Like it's all just these tiny little things where they're so interested in the arts and

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theater and it's a really interesting perspective on it that I think maybe we're missing a bit

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of in Australia.

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But because of that, the lead production company of that play, they're German and they just

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seem to keep finding a space for it.

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And they're really excited about it, enthusiastic about it.

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Whereas I think like in Australia often we make a play and then it's over and that was

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great and now we're on to the next one.

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Yeah.

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We're very much rinse once and then never repeat.

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Exactly.

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Which has its own kind of joys to it.

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It happened that one time, it will never happen again and that's special.

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But it is like once you invest in the time to make a piece and in this case have people

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come all from around the world to make it, like, you know, it's great to keep redoing

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it and also it has different relevancy every time it's put on.

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Yeah.

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Global space as a political piece.

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So yeah, it's I think it's really exciting.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah.

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I mean, like that's a long time to stay established or something, but I will say like, you know,

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because that would probably feel like a full time job.

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Yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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That just pops its head up every now and then we do it for like three weeks and then I don't

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we don't do it again for another couple of years.

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So yeah, it's cool.

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Like it's just a little nice surprise to see everyone again and bring this character back

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to life.

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Forever perpetually a 12 year old.

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Yes.

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But I mean, like, you know, that that means that, you know, acting has never really stopped

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for you, which you know, like, because that's very different.

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Because I mean, like, you know, I remember sort of just being like, oh, okay, because

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I remember, what was it, the short film you're in, which was set during the apocalypse.

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Yeah.

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And like, if anyone hasn't seen this film, I think it's Waltzing Matilda's Girl.

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Waltzing Tilda.

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Sorry, Waltzing Tilda.

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And then like, it's just kind of a weird art see very strange film.

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I love how it was made as well because it was just shot really early in the morning

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when no one's really around.

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Sort of.

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But the director of that who also did all the VFX is an absolute wizard and can do anything.

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And so sometimes there were people all around and he's just gotten rid of them.

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So I'd have to do the take, we'd leave the camera there and then we just keep rolling

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and then he'd rotoscope everyone out because he just needed a section of that locked off

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shot that he could cut, like find an empty part and then use that.

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Oh my god.

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It's amazing.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, it meant things moved a little slower.

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And then he's so clever that he then tried to hide that by adding in camera movement

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later.

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So like the framing was always a little wider so that he could put that movement in so it

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doesn't feel like it was a locked off shot where he's cut people out.

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He's an absolute wizard, Jonathan Williamson, and we work together a lot actually.

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We're trying to pull a feature film together.

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And yeah, we've worked together many times since then.

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Yeah.

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Did that because that film is fun.

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Yeah.

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It's a very bizarre film.

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Yeah.

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And it kind of popped up on my radar.

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I think just by chance.

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I think I saw it on YouTube as well.

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It did really well on YouTube.

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It did.

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Yeah.

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And was it kind of like, oh, I know this is going to do well from the get go?

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No, it was a surprise to me.

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I guess because I actually don't really work in genre spaces as a filmmaker.

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Like I'm very much like a family drama, get to the heart of like a relationship kind of

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person when I direct and produce mostly.

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But this piece, it had such a specific niche audience in that genre piece.

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So people go, oh, it's a story about someone who's the last person on earth alive.

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And they're like, oh, I'm in, you know, like, and so it did really find an amazing audience.

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It went to so many film festivals around the world.

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Yeah.

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Did amazingly.

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And yeah, I cannot quote the number of views on YouTube because I can't remember, but there

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are a lot.

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And it got shared by like other people and they seem to get even more views, which the

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director was like, yeah, I'm good with that.

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So people are saying it.

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I mean, that's how you make revenue really.

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How many eyes are glued to it?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And then now you direct and you produce and like, was that the funnel vision of where

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did that change direction change for you from being actor in front of the camera to, you

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know what?

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I like the behind the scenes stuff as well.

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Yeah, it's a good question.

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I think it came out of like acting so hard and it's like, it's so hard to get work and

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you give it everything and you make, you know, you take a week off of everything else you'd

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plan to work on an audition that you're really excited to get this role and then you don't

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get it.

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And then like you, it's the pursuance of acting is incredibly hard.

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And I think I just needed something to be putting energy into outside of that at the

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same time.

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So I was always intending to continue acting, but then I decided to go to film school.

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I went to Sydney film school in 2015 and I loved it.

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I loved being behind the camera and yeah, I walked into that course, which was a very

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general course, very practical where you just started making films and I wasn't quite sure

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what area of filmmaking I'd be most interested in.

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I actually thought I'd be, I really wanted to be a production designer, but I can't,

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so I can't draw at all.

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I can't really do anything artistic.

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So I actually found my skillset was really well suited to assistant directing and producing

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because I can be very bossy and controlling and like have a hustle to like make things

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happen and also like directing as well.

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So yeah, I think, I think directing came from working as an actor a lot of times, but wanting

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to have a role in telling the overall story in those pieces and feeling that directing

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would give me that opportunity.

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And I think I have a superpower of like, when I watch a film, unlike a lot of filmmakers,

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like I don't actually notice anything the filmmakers doing unless I like turn the sound

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off and make sure I aim for it.

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I think it's a superpower that I just get fully immersed into a story and the emotions

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and the performances and it feels like, it feels like life to me.

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And I think that that's a strength because that's what is always most important to me

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as a filmmaker.

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I'm not really that interested in what tricks we can do, even though I can be hopeful in

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delivering a certain kind of feeling, but yeah, I'm just like, I'm really about the

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emotions and delivering a journey that people can relate to or can like be immersed in and

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feel the transformation.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I mean, I agree with you about like directing like and seeing films as well.

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Like that's, that's really interesting because I don't, I agree with you 100%.

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I don't think people view films like that.

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And I had this quote recently where like people think that films are just cool moments that

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are, or the scene is in pivotal, but it's not what's kind of happening as an overall

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what like where everyone's going or what's the emotional impact of the story.

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And that's sometimes down to the performance.

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But you know, cause if you're any filmmaker, you've watched the worst of the worst and

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the best of the best, like you've kind of like scrubbed through everything.

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But as a director, you would also, and as a producer, I'm sure you know, you're dealing

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with stuff that is the most stress inducing, nightmare inducing, whether it's like, you

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know, cast or crew or, you know, like finances, what's it like where for you are the biggest

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Achilles heels to just be like, okay, I need like five before my brain melts and dies.

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Like it is so hard to make a film.

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I'm sure everyone knows that, but it like, just to make anything happen, you need so

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00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,000
many things to come together.

245
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,120
You need like to exclusively go out to at least like, if it's going to be a kind of

246
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,800
decently sized film, at least 20 crew members who are going to clear that entire week of

247
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,800
their lives.

248
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,320
You need to find actors who believe in the story and will invest with you and then also

249
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,360
find that time and then everything else, locations, props, costumes, the gear.

250
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,520
So like all come together to be in this one place to deliver this one story.

251
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,080
And then as the director, you are the custodian of that story.

252
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:22,720
So as things are going wrong, as like it starts raining, as like an actor can't make it because

253
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,440
they got COVID, you have to like hold so true to all those things that were like so important

254
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:29,880
to you in telling this story.

255
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:30,880
And it is so hard.

256
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,640
And people are like constantly coming up to you with questions like what color should

257
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:35,920
the curtains be?

258
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,720
Like where should we be on sticks or should we be handheld?

259
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,480
And of course those are all so important for the story and you have to like always go back

260
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,240
to the vision and what was the core thing you wanted to tell in this story to make all

261
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,760
those decisions.

262
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,880
And yeah, I think that's what I find.

263
00:13:53,880 --> 00:14:00,280
That's the thing that is actually exclusive to me to directing over like producing or

264
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,440
ADEEN because I think like you do have a little bit of time to think with producing an ADEEN,

265
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,360
with directing like it's just all coming at you 24 seven.

266
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,240
And like everyone there can kind of, you know, chill, take a second, like check their phone.

267
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,280
You have to like constantly be in what are we getting?

268
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,040
How is it going to come together to edit?

269
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,640
How are we going to make this story?

270
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,960
And it's challenging.

271
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,280
I 100% agree with you.

272
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,040
And I think it's like, you know, my favorite thing with ever directing as well is when

273
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,060
you've got actors who have predominantly worked in theater and you're trying to teach them

274
00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:38,000
about film editing and technique.

275
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,120
And I used to have this conversation all the time with them where she'd go, okay, well,

276
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,760
I need you to pause before you the next person says their line.

277
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,240
Not because of any particular reason that it won't look good.

278
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,320
I just need to tighten those crossovers.

279
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:55,320
And so I have clear line of audio, but they still do the interrupt every time.

280
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,600
Yeah, it's such a different ballgame to theater.

281
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,920
And yeah, you will get actors who are a little more heightened, a little more like indicate

282
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,320
how they're feeling a bit more on screen.

283
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,600
If you're in a close up, all they need to do is think about what they're thinking.

284
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,680
And the audience will see it.

285
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,720
That's like, that can be a real challenge because you can't say to an actor, just think

286
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,760
about it, just do less, like just lower the stakes.

287
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:21,880
You can't do any of that.

288
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,760
You have to change their intention, their objective to become subtler.

289
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,400
Like you can't let them see that you feel this way.

290
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,720
And that's like, I find that really fun to like find those ways of getting to the right

291
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,880
performance, but it's really challenging.

292
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,200
And I think it's a strength of mine coming from an acting background, I hope.

293
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,240
But yeah, I mean, also the other thing though, with that don't cut each other off is like,

294
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,360
you have to know, well, maybe I'm going to play this in the two shot where I do want

295
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120
them to be upping the pace.

296
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,000
Because I'm editing a film at the moment and I do want to stick on some of these two shots

297
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,600
and they're not as fast as I would like to be.

298
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,800
And then it's the hard decision, okay, do we cut in for the singles so we can speed

299
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,960
it up or do we stay in this lovely two shot where you can see how they both feel about

300
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,440
what the other one's saying.

301
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,320
So on that day, you have to know, how do I think I'm going to cut this?

302
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,840
And of course things might change, but you need to like know the answers to that in that

303
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:15,840
moment.

304
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:16,840
Yeah.

305
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:17,840
Predict the future.

306
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:25,160
I think like, um, we last ever shoot I did, we had like four, we had four, five glasses

307
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,360
that we bought from Vinnie's.

308
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,280
Like these were all like little goblet glasses.

309
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,040
And my friend, um, who was doing one of the performances, he was like, oh, okay.

310
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,520
So I've got to slam like my glass down on the table.

311
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:37,520
He was like, I'm okay.

312
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,520
I'm going to do it gently because it is real glass.

313
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,240
So it is gently as he could and it's still shattered.

314
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,760
And he just went, oh shit.

315
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,120
And I was like, oh no, we've lost a glass.

316
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,860
And so we had to hurry and clean it up.

317
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:51,360
And this was the day before filming.

318
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,080
So we were kind of setting up the space and I was like, okay, well, we're going to improvise.

319
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,920
We're going to use the bottle for one of the characters who isn't welcome in the scene.

320
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,240
And that will kind of get around the fact that there's only four glasses and there's

321
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,360
five characters and one of them isn't welcome.

322
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:06,360
So cool.

323
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:09,000
This will be kind of how we'll navigate around that mistake.

324
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,040
But it was very kind of like, I remember sitting there going, okay, I've got a quick sync.

325
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,040
Go, go, go, go, go.

326
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,040
What do you do?

327
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,040
What do you do?

328
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,040
Yeah.

329
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,000
And you know, like one of those things is also like I said, it was like, you know, people

330
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000
are late.

331
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,240
I've never been on a set where you know, you as a director are always there the earliest

332
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,240
before anyone else.

333
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,640
You are stressing about everything.

334
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,160
But then like, you know, people are like, oh, I got stuck in traffic or you know, something's

335
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,160
happened.

336
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,200
And I think the latest anyone I've ever had on set is being like an hour.

337
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,200
Yeah.

338
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,200
But you know, that whole hour, you're massive.

339
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,480
Just kind of like, oh God, everything is crucial now.

340
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,240
And then everything gets pushed back.

341
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,920
And then you end up like, especially if you have locations that are time sensitive.

342
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,920
Yeah.

343
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,520
And you're like, you know, you're going to be out of there at certain hours.

344
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,520
Yeah, absolutely.

345
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,680
Like how do you guys, do you cope best as a, like with those stressful situations as a

346
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,680
director or as a producer?

347
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:01,680
Or neither?

348
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:08,840
I think the best training for me has been as a first AD because you know, you get curve

349
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,960
balls and that's the thing that like, you know, good first ADs think ahead of time.

350
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:14,960
Okay.

351
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:15,960
What is plan B?

352
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,640
Because something always happens on a shoot.

353
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:23,200
Like whether it's someone being late or something not being ready in time or whether the light

354
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,360
is not going to be good for a few hours or whatever it is.

355
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:31,600
Or that prop has been, it's got shattered and we need to go buy another one.

356
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,240
It's like, yeah, I think as a first AD, I'm always like, okay, what will I do if that

357
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,240
happens?

358
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:38,240
Okay.

359
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,320
We can cover this scene in three shots.

360
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,860
It's not ideal, but we will get the story.

361
00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:43,640
Or is it a matter of we push something else?

362
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,720
Do we cut an entire another scene?

363
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,520
But it will allow us more time here.

364
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,360
So I'm used to those decisions as an AD.

365
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,560
When I'm a director though, I'm like, oh, can't we still have it all?

366
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:54,560
Can't we fill out all the shots?

367
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:55,560
They're all so important.

368
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:56,560
Like, yeah.

369
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,920
And I think like it is good to make that difference.

370
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,080
Like I think you can't be a director who's like a first AD.

371
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,400
Like, oh, we'll just don't worry.

372
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,760
Like, yeah, we'll just cut this and we don't really need it.

373
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,960
I think you've got to fight for it, right?

374
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,560
What's really important.

375
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,280
And you, but still you have to make compromises.

376
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,080
So it's like, okay, the AD is telling me we don't have time for both.

377
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,700
What is the most important?

378
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:22,760
Can I cut entire another scene or half of it out to get this?

379
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:23,760
What is more important?

380
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:24,760
Yeah.

381
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,840
I find also, I don't know if it's my background in editing, but I find that helps massively

382
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,920
with directing as well.

383
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:38,000
Because I've had on set, like, you know, and whether I had a first AD or no first AD, depending

384
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,520
on the size of the set, I've definitely had people go, oh, you don't need that shot of

385
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,520
my God do because I don't have that.

386
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,520
It's going to look like a shit cut.

387
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,720
Like it's, it's, you kind of prioritize things.

388
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,440
I think that you know, will flow well.

389
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:57,240
And, um, I just think because I've watched, I've watched films and I've edited films that

390
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,240
have not been covered well.

391
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,400
And you can, and not necessarily the stories about, I would think that like most of the

392
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,240
films I've edited, they have a good heart, but they're like, you know, whether it'd

393
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,240
have been a student production or like, um, you know, years later, they have been more

394
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,240
covered, but there's always like, as a director, you do miss coverage.

395
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,160
Like it's, it's weird, but you, you can never get it all.

396
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,640
And it's this weird juggle in your head to what's a priority, as you say, like what is

397
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,200
the most crucial shots?

398
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,200
Yeah.

399
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,200
Yeah.

400
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,520
And sometimes people don't agree with you on set and you're saying like, no, I need

401
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,640
this, like three shots for this one beat.

402
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,560
And they're like, why can't we make sure we get more of other things?

403
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,420
And it's like, no, I know it's going to be important.

404
00:20:39,420 --> 00:20:43,400
And then like, you know, if it is the story you want to tell, it is the most important.

405
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,840
Um, you know, that's when you get into auto filmmaking.

406
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,640
It's like, no one gets my vision.

407
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,000
No, shut up everyone.

408
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000
I have the custodian.

409
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,440
Do you, have you ever got like that?

410
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,920
No, I think I'm actually like, I'm a bit, I hope to be a very grateful director.

411
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,320
I'm like, thank you guys so much.

412
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,320
Yes.

413
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,040
I'm really appreciative like the whole time through.

414
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:10,040
And if people give me opinions, I like, I love, I love when people give me suggestions

415
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,320
on set as long as you know, it's appropriate and we're not like hours behind and throwing

416
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,320
me off.

417
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,320
Yeah.

418
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,920
I mean, there's a time and a place, but if someone goes, oh, like, do you think maybe

419
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,240
we should get the other direction because this might cut better?

420
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,240
I'm like, okay, great.

421
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,240
Yeah.

422
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,240
I think you're right.

423
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,240
Um, like I find that helpful.

424
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,240
Yeah.

425
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,240
Don't worry.

426
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,240
Our mutual friends all say nice things about it.

427
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:31,240
Okay, good.

428
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,240
Yeah.

429
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,800
They all, they all think you're amazing, but it's like, but I mean, like it's, it's, it

430
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,360
is one of those things that I do agree with you because it's like, you know, how helpful

431
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:46,960
is information sort of like so light as well into what you're doing.

432
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Yeah.

433
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,520
And it's constant on set though.

434
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,520
Yeah, I know.

435
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,520
Like, couldn't we do this?

436
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,080
And then sometimes you made a decision weeks ago about that and you're like, no, I don't

437
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,080
want this.

438
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,080
And then it's coming back again.

439
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,240
And you're like, I have to remember why I decided not to.

440
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,760
My favorite, my favorite is like when people have missed emails or they've missed details

441
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,960
in emails and then suddenly they go, Oh, was that disgusting?

442
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,480
You're like, yeah, like three weeks ago.

443
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,280
Like it happens all the time.

444
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,280
Yeah.

445
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,280
Yeah.

446
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,920
So funny message, a message to any filmmakers listening is that it takes me like a day to

447
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,480
put together a call sheet with all the details in it and then people don't read it.

448
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,480
And then they come and they're like, Oh, so what scenes are we doing?

449
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,520
I'm like, it was in the call sheet.

450
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,000
I mean, I will tell you, but I spent so long on that and it seems like no one read it.

451
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,200
I just don't think people like emails.

452
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,200
Yeah.

453
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,880
And it's, it's kind of like, um, and I know it's the bane of my existence as well, because

454
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,280
I have constantly the people I work with.

455
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,920
Um, some of them love it.

456
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,320
Some of them think it's the bee's knees, but I think you have to really love kind of organizational

457
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,800
and how organization works.

458
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,440
Cause some people just go, Oh, I don't know why you kind of like do Google things.

459
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,520
And I'm like, it's the, it's the quickest way to look at a calendar and be like, Oh,

460
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,520
it's all synced.

461
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,320
Cause like, I have friends who go, Oh yeah, no, I got your event.

462
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,680
Cause it's in my calendar now.

463
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:02,680
Yeah.

464
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,480
And some people never do.

465
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,280
And then they, they, it's like, they'll go, what day are we doing something?

466
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,280
Yeah.

467
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,280
Just read my emails.

468
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,280
Go back to the message.

469
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,120
It's like, this is, and this is why I like my little rant, but it's why I ended up sending

470
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:19,400
like 20 of the same email because no one reads them.

471
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,400
Yeah.

472
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,320
And, and then, but I think the thing also is the downside of being a filmmaker.

473
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:28,040
And when you do a lot of emailing, which you know, is producing and directing and everything,

474
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,000
it's never stopping.

475
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,240
But people I think don't like reading your emails anymore because they kind of like,

476
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,280
just tell me then, which is the worst.

477
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,280
Yeah.

478
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,280
No, I like to email.

479
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,920
I'm not really as much of a phone call person because then I'm like, you can go back to

480
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:41,920
the info.

481
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,920
Like it's here.

482
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,160
I'm like writing emails because I can formulate exactly what I want to say.

483
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,200
But I think I'm, I think I'm, um, have a shortfall of writing emails that are too long.

484
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,480
And then it's hard for people to get the detail.

485
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,920
Like my partner is quite good at just like the bare bones and then people can find it.

486
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,560
I mean, it does sound like you just like to write.

487
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:02,560
Yeah.

488
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,560
Is it a thought bubble?

489
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:04,560
I like emails.

490
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,560
It's like a journal.

491
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:12,640
But no, I really like, I actually like, I'm a fan of organizing stuff and like, it's funny

492
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,760
when I produce something or I do something, I'm like, that was well organized.

493
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,760
I'm proud of myself.

494
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,760
You know, don't care.

495
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,680
No one will ever know in the end game, but I'm proud.

496
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,680
It's like, oh, I've managed to make this work.

497
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:25,680
Cha-ching.

498
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,680
Yeah.

499
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,680
Exactly.

500
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,880
And it's kind of also like organizing a call sheet and knowing when everyone needs to be

501
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,920
there and, and dependent on time and day and everything.

502
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,160
Like if you're light dependent, if you're shooting outside and it's entirely like weather

503
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,800
permitting is the worst stress in the world.

504
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,800
Yes, exactly.

505
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,040
And actually doing all that prep work means you're ready for that day.

506
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,440
So sometimes I'm like, oh, can the producer make call sheet?

507
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,640
I don't want to have to make it.

508
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,960
But when I do do all that work of exactly what time everyone's going to arrive, exactly

509
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,800
what time we stop one scene and go to the next and what we need there for each of those

510
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,200
scenes, it's all in my head and I'm ready to go and I do my job a lot better.

511
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,200
Yeah.

512
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,880
But you know, but that takes so long and no one reads that.

513
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,000
This is the downside of being a first AD.

514
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,720
It's interesting as well, because I feel like, um, you know, I don't know if this happened

515
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,760
to you at like uni as well, cause I went to, I went to TAFE.

516
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,500
So I went to North City TAFE and Randwick TAFE.

517
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:26,500
And they're really good courses.

518
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:27,500
They were great.

519
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:30,360
They taught you the basics about broadcast as well as film.

520
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:35,160
But one of the things they didn't really clarify on was the nitty gritty of a first AD and

521
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,680
what that role really requires.

522
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,080
Because you end up like a first AD is basically a set runner.

523
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,240
It's basically like you're a big set runner because the director is too busy doing other

524
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,040
things and the producers kind of in and out during the day.

525
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,720
Probably not as there.

526
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,040
So you're kind of the best of both worlds in one head.

527
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Yes.

528
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,040
Yeah.

529
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,720
In theory, they're, um, the producers representative on set.

530
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,920
Um, also, um, yeah, I mean, if you know the theater world, they're essentially the stage

531
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,920
manager.

532
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:06,920
They run everything.

533
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:07,920
They're the bossy boots.

534
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,920
They keep everyone on time.

535
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,360
Um, and in theory, I mean, they call action, which most people think the director calls

536
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,280
action, but generally the first AD calls it.

537
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,280
Which is weird.

538
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,080
I think, I think it's such a weird terminology to why that's happened.

539
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,080
Yeah.

540
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,680
I think it's because like it's little things like directors get really excited and they

541
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,520
don't wait for the DP to say camera set and then they just go action and no one's ready.

542
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,440
Um, so it's, I think it is good so that the director can just focus on looking at the

543
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,960
faces rather than be waiting to hear camera set and knowing that the boom is out of the

544
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,960
frame and everything.

545
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:45,400
So I don't mind it, but, um, yeah, I, I think, I, I, like, I've always loved first AD and

546
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:51,720
it feels like the part of producing that you get to do on set, which is for me the most

547
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,800
enjoyable part of producing anyway, because like, I don't really like sitting in production

548
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,000
office going through contracts and insurances.

549
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,000
It's just not really for me.

550
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,160
Um, but I'll do it if I must.

551
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,600
Uh, but then yeah, on set, like you do have to solve all these problems and you have to

552
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,600
do them immediately.

553
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:12,320
And you feel like such a sense of satisfaction when you planned in a certain way where you

554
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,040
got someone to work ahead on something else, where the director got to get that extra shot

555
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,880
where they just love the performance and they loved everything happening.

556
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,680
Yeah, no one else you never get, there's no Oscar for best first AD, but you get that

557
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,680
sense of satisfaction at the end of the day that you did help creatively make that film

558
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:30,680
better.

559
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Can I just say there was an Oscar for first AD.

560
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:33,760
Really?

561
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Like I wish.

562
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,520
Oh, like I really wish that was a thing.

563
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Yeah.

564
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,520
So good.

565
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,520
It's really hard to judge because like you don't get to necessarily see it in the work

566
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,680
and it's like, did you have enough time?

567
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,120
Did someone have to hustle?

568
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:53,840
So you can't really judge it retrospectively, but if all the crews around each industry

569
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,200
said who is the best, I think they deserve an award.

570
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,280
I think it's like, um, one of, one of my teachers actually, um, directing teachers actually

571
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,280
said he got sick and so the first AD had to run the set entirely and direct the scene

572
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,440
because like the director was actually just outside vomiting and couldn't actually do

573
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,440
anything.

574
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,000
So I was like, here's all my information.

575
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Like go wild.

576
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Yes.

577
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,440
I've had to, I mean, if you have a shoot where the director is an actor, like in it, which

578
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,680
is quite common, you start to go, Oh, I think you might want to do another one for performance.

579
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,400
And you have to know what the director wants.

580
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,880
You have to know their vision really well.

581
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,680
So it's like, I know that you think this audience, this character needs to feel vulnerable in

582
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,960
this moment or that the audience has to feel sorry for them.

583
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,640
So you act as their eyes.

584
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:46,160
I've also done ones these days where, um, your first AD and the directors overseas or

585
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:52,000
like in another state and you're just, you're holding an iPad with this director walking

586
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,680
around, but also obviously you have to communicate a lot of stuff yourself.

587
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,680
Yeah.

588
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,560
I remember that COVID did that quite a bit.

589
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,440
It was like zoom calls.

590
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:07,040
Um, yeah, I don't, I don't quite understand cause I've, I've not had to work from home

591
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,280
in entirety of COVID.

592
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,400
My full-time job has always been in the office.

593
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,400
Yeah.

594
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,400
So I've had no choice.

595
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,640
And so anyone who goes, Oh, you had to zoom at home.

596
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,640
Like how?

597
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,640
Why?

598
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,080
But apparently that was so huge.

599
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:24,600
Like everyone was filming like, like their computers at home and then just going, Oh

600
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,600
yeah, I like that shot.

601
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,200
And they get a quad split of like all the shots, like, you know, you throw a camera

602
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,200
and I was like, that's insane.

603
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,200
Yes.

604
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,700
Like, how is that a thing?

605
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:33,700
It's nuts.

606
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:35,480
I don't think I could direct that way.

607
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,480
Like maybe if I absolutely had to, but like just sitting there, not able to actually jump

608
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,080
in and physically do things that would drive me so crazy.

609
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,360
As a director though, and I, and I do ask this question because everyone has their own

610
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,360
methods about what's, you know, good directing, what's bad directing.

611
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,880
But, um, are you one of those ones who like, are you one to sort of play out the motions

612
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,520
with or kind of tell people where their blocking is?

613
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,600
Because like, I know sometimes it's, you know, depending how quick it is, but some actors

614
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,840
don't like repeating what the director, you know, if they go, Oh, I need you to hear,

615
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,560
hear, hear, hear, hear, hear.

616
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,480
Um, they can go and footloose fancy free do it.

617
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,480
Yeah.

618
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,480
Yeah.

619
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,160
Like, yeah, I think it's, it's, it's a compromise sometimes that you find what's best in the

620
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,160
middle.

621
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,120
My instinct is always to go by the instincts of the actor.

622
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,880
Um, so cause they know that character really well.

623
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,640
And that's if they're doing something that they don't believe in, you're going to be

624
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:32,640
able to tell.

625
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,880
So I think it, and they come up with these amazing ideas you would have never thought

626
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,880
of.

627
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,840
So I do love the opportunity to let an actor come in and have the space themselves, even

628
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,360
to like sit there for a while while we're doing something else and find things.

629
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:51,040
Um, I think that's always best, but I always have in my head what I intend for the blocking

630
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,960
to be because you need to make decisions based on that, that are going to be too late on

631
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:55,960
the day.

632
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,480
Like what, what equipment you need?

633
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Do we need a certain rig?

634
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,000
Yeah.

635
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Do we need a crane?

636
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Do we need an easy rig?

637
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Whatever.

638
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Um, so that we're going to be able to get it.

639
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:10,000
So I like to give the space to the actors, get them to play it out themselves.

640
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Sometimes I might nudge them in a certain direction, making it feel like it's their

641
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,040
idea.

642
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,040
And then, um, sneaky.

643
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,040
Yeah.

644
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,360
Well, you just want them to believe, you know, like it's not to like trick them in any way,

645
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,400
but just so that they feel like, oh yeah, this is absolutely what's right.

646
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,120
And then at the end of the day, if it's really not working for what I have in my head is

647
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,200
going to be that story, I would be a little bit perscriptive with blocking and say, okay,

648
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,760
I think that we should actually get you to stand on this line because it's going to be

649
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,520
important for something else.

650
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,160
But generally, yeah, I'll always try and let the actors follow their instincts.

651
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,160
Yeah.

652
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,160
No, I like that.

653
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,160
I like that.

654
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Like, cause yeah, like there's, there's very many ways you can do it.

655
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,520
Um, and not all of them land.

656
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,520
No.

657
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,800
Oh, directing is like, there is such a breadth of ways to direct.

658
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,800
Yeah.

659
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,800
And I think my thing is I just really want everyone to feel comfortable and trusted.

660
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,680
And, um, like we're really appreciative of them being there, whether that's the runner

661
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,760
or whether it's the lead actor.

662
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:15,440
And I think when people feel that way, they're much more, um, generous with their spirit

663
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,440
into that place.

664
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,400
And they're not just like, Oh, I've got to get through this shot, say the words and go

665
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,400
home.

666
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,920
Like they're like, okay, yeah.

667
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,520
How I love that story.

668
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,840
You're trying to tell, I had this thought about it.

669
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,920
And that's when like you start to make magic.

670
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:28,920
Yeah.

671
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:34,840
I think it's also like, um, you know, I think, I think actors worst hate depending on the

672
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
actor is like sitting around doing nothing.

673
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,880
And it's never fun.

674
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,280
But I mean, like you do, it's always the hard thing when you're an ensemble piece as well.

675
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,000
Like you're in this big scene with other people and kind of, you all have like about four

676
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,000
lines.

677
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,920
So you're kind of waiting for someone to say their line and then have your closeup.

678
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,760
Otherwise you're just kind of there and existing.

679
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,760
Like, so I always find the challenging cause I mean, like, you know, let's be honest, every

680
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,360
actor wants to be the center of attention.

681
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,360
Cause you know, as actors, that's what you want to do.

682
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,360
You were a performer.

683
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,360
Yeah.

684
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,960
So you want, yeah, you want to tell a story that's interesting.

685
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Yeah.

686
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:11,960
And then through your character.

687
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:12,960
Yeah.

688
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,440
So if your character is not on screen, you have generally like, you're like, Oh, I'm

689
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,680
supportive of everyone else, but my interest really relies on me performing my character.

690
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,480
So it helps the story grow when you know, like you want to be part of a whole.

691
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,800
So I always find the challenge with ensemble pieces, particularly more so than with just

692
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,240
like characters who are only two or three in a scene, which are easier to kind of like

693
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,480
run because they're, but when you've got five or six characters in a scene or even more,

694
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,880
it's generally quite hard to get everyone to really like, make sure they're all timed

695
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:44,880
right.

696
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,880
Yeah.

697
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,120
And I feel like that's the biggest challenge to keep everyone happy because you've got

698
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,560
to keep that energy going and you've got to be fast.

699
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,560
Yes.

700
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,560
Yeah.

701
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,560
And it is like, it's about what is going to benefit actors sometimes as well, because

702
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,200
they will do better performances when they're happy and like feel valued as well.

703
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,680
And so I think if like you are keeping them waiting, it's just about, I'm really sorry

704
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,840
this other thing came up, but this is why that's going to be really great.

705
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,760
And just feeling like you haven't just forgotten about them, but I do, I actually think in

706
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,400
casting, I make an intentional decision to work with actors who I, if, if, if I'm working

707
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,240
on something that doesn't have a huge budget where we're not going to have a trailer for

708
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,760
them, I make an intentional choice to, to find actors who are really team players and

709
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,920
enthusiastic in spirit.

710
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,160
But then also, yeah, making sure that they do, they do know what's going on on set and

711
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,160
they do feel valued.

712
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,160
Yeah.

713
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,160
I mean, that's a hundred percent.

714
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,880
And I, and I think enthusiasm really helps.

715
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,400
Like, um, some of the best actors I've worked with, um, are like enthusiastic and they build

716
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,320
off your own enthusiasm for the project.

717
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,400
Cause I think that's really important as a director is you show your own enthusiasm.

718
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,400
Yes.

719
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:54,480
People move each other.

720
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,880
And also at the end of the day, if someone like, you know, I have this lesson a lot,

721
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,840
that if someone is an enthusiast about what you do, then they probably shouldn't be there.

722
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,840
Exactly.

723
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,840
Yeah.

724
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:05,840
It's the wrong kind of vibe.

725
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,040
It brings everything down when someone's, when, yeah, when someone is not vibing with

726
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,560
everything and making some comments behind the backs of everyone.

727
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Like it's not, it's not a good vibe.

728
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,840
And I think, yeah, you're just, you can have a mature conversation about that sometimes.

729
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:19,840
A hundred percent.

730
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,480
And like, are you unhappy about anything?

731
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:22,480
Let's talk about it.

732
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,480
Yeah.

733
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:24,480
Cause it's not helping everyone else.

734
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:25,480
Yeah.

735
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,480
A hundred percent.

736
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,200
And I think that's just kind of like a learning curve that we're not really taught about when

737
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,200
we're younger as well.

738
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,840
I think that's something that you learn as time goes on.

739
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,040
And yeah, it's very interesting.

740
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,600
Cause I remember that was not taught at all in school.

741
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,360
Like you're just taught to deal with it and like you don't understand how to deal with

742
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,200
difficult crew or, but you know, like, but I remember like that one key lesson I was

743
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,240
taught, which was if you're on time, you're late.

744
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:54,600
If you're early, you're on time.

745
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:55,600
Yeah, that's right.

746
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,600
I love that role.

747
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,600
Still follow it to a T.

748
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,600
Yes.

749
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,600
Yeah.

750
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,000
I was talking to a filmmaker friend today actually about how we're always late for social

751
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,960
gatherings, but anything that's work, we are so early.

752
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,480
Like you just have that mindset of, okay, the shoot starts at eight.

753
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,680
I'm going to get up at like five 30 just to make sure I packed everything.

754
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,880
I'm fully ready and I'm sitting in my car for 20 minutes out the front.

755
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:18,880
Yeah.

756
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:19,880
Oh no.

757
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,880
A hundred percent.

758
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,800
If I say like to anyone eight 45 or nine o'clock in the morning, I'm going to get there at

759
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,800
eight 30.

760
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,800
Yeah.

761
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,800
No, not, not, not later than that.

762
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,800
Yeah.

763
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,800
No, film crews are amazing at that.

764
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,680
Like as a first day T like you're like down to the minute on what you can achieve and

765
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,840
like they're so generous.

766
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,600
A lot of film crew members where they rock up so early and they'll just start working

767
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,200
because they, they do want to get through it all and they're there anyway.

768
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,200
Yeah.

769
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,200
And then they save us a lot of time and money.

770
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,200
Yeah.

771
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,200
Cause a little more stress.

772
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,400
I mean like, you know, there's sometimes you just get all the best kind of people to work

773
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,720
with and you know, like just people like location venues and stuff like that.

774
00:36:54,720 --> 00:37:01,240
I know one friend recently did his first short film and he got the entire venue for free,

775
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,240
which was like incredible.

776
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:08,200
But yeah, it was in this club in Oxford street.

777
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,200
They showed it to him.

778
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,720
He was allowed from it from like nine AM to like four PM when they actually officially

779
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:19,920
opened and we just, he'd come in clean, help clean it and then like we'd start making it.

780
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,520
And it was just kind of insane because you'd got all this location.

781
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,000
And yeah, just the challenge of doing something with such a big kind of actual relocation

782
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,000
in it.

783
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,120
It's literally those like generous things from people that like, I hope that they know

784
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,840
how much of a difference they make in the end.

785
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Like it is like people I think really do want to help you if they can.

786
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:49,360
And like I, one example is a film I produced back in 2016.

787
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,240
We run, we went through the production, we went over budget and it was going to be the

788
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:56,720
director paying for everything in excess.

789
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,520
And the, one of the lead actors at the end of it, we sent him through, okay, these were

790
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,600
your hours, this is how much we're going to pay you.

791
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,740
And he said, you know what, keep it all and consider it my donation to the film.

792
00:38:07,740 --> 00:38:12,600
And it was just incredible because it put us back onto budget and the director wasn't

793
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,040
going to have to go and try and take out a loan.

794
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,560
And like, it was like, we hope that he knows like how grateful we were for something like

795
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,240
that that was like, you have made our lives, you made this film possible.

796
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,480
That was so hard that we put so much time into and like, you're the best.

797
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,760
And it's all those things like a location that, you know, gives it to you for free or

798
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,440
comes in and cleans or anything like that.

799
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,600
Anyone, we did a shoot recently and a company gave us all these heaters for free and we

800
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,600
could keep all the actors warm outside.

801
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Like they make such a difference, these things.

802
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,720
It's like the last location I shot in was an amazing studio, which is normally used

803
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:53,640
for photography, a place called Dale Studios in Chimidale.

804
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,240
And the owners literally didn't charge us for the equipment and they weren't going to

805
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:00,080
charge us over time for any of like the excess hours.

806
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,440
Because they were like, you guys are really nice.

807
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,600
And I was like, are you serious?

808
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,600
You don't mind?

809
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,960
And they were like, no, we don't care because you guys are clearly just trying to make something

810
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:09,960
and that's fun.

811
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,680
Yeah, it's incredible.

812
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,520
And I really don't want to ever take advantage of people and sometimes it can feel like you're

813
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,000
doing that on a film because you have so little money.

814
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,680
But those offers that people make when they're happy to do it to help you out, like you're

815
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:23,680
nuts.

816
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,440
I think it's also, it's really like, it's age dependent because I feel like I've gotten,

817
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,480
as I've gotten older, it's definitely more, I'm like, don't use people to your advantage,

818
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,360
but ask if they're okay with helping out where they can.

819
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,440
And you know, especially when a project doesn't have a lot of money or sometimes has no money

820
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,760
investments, like some projects I've worked on have had zero budget.

821
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,800
Like they've tried to wing everything.

822
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,400
The minimum I've ever spent on a production probably would have been a grand.

823
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,600
And the maximum I've spent is probably like 15, 20,000, like out of my own pocket.

824
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,440
It's like, you kind of, kind of balance it up, but it does like when it's out of your

825
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,560
own pocket or you get a grant or a funding or whatever, you do kind of think in your

826
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,040
head, okay, cool.

827
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,560
Well, what's achievable?

828
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,920
What's not achievable?

829
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,400
What's going to be everyone's rate?

830
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,960
Are people going to make sacrifices somewhere?

831
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,360
Are they going to be happy to work for a reduced rate?

832
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Like what are your, what are, waive your options because sometimes you get the best result

833
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,960
with just magic of people being, you know, like the best.

834
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,960
Yeah, it's nuts.

835
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,760
And you can't just get it all the time out of people, of course.

836
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:38,160
And like, I think like, yeah, you can't, unless it's like a mate and you've done them a favor

837
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,720
and they're doing your favor, like you need to make sure someone's getting something out

838
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,400
of your production, like they're going to work for a reduced rate.

839
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,640
It should be because they're still trying to get experience at that level or they want

840
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,640
to meet some people or like they should be getting something out of it.

841
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,240
And you need to figure out whether that's money or something else.

842
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:02,600
But yeah, it's like, it's a tricky balance because it is a shame when things go into

843
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,520
production and they don't have enough of a budget to do it properly and everyone feels

844
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,360
a bit overworked and underpaid.

845
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,240
But I think, yeah, it's just about being really straight up with people and saying, okay,

846
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:14,560
I know it doesn't have this.

847
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,600
Would you still be interested if not totally understand?

848
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:18,600
Yeah.

849
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:24,160
And I definitely think that, you know, that's down to the individual and everything as well,

850
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,400
because you know, I've worked on those, I've done those as well.

851
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,960
I still do some projects that are bumpkis money.

852
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:37,120
And like, it does, you do kind of work out when you're, you know, burning the candle

853
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,440
at both ends of someone else or you're overworking people or you're, you know, like, and it's

854
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,440
a challenge.

855
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,560
It's a challenge because I think as creatives, we get enthusiastic and then we've got to

856
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,520
kind of reel ourselves back and go, hang on.

857
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,720
How much am I asking of literally everyone?

858
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:55,720
Yeah, no, it's true.

859
00:41:55,720 --> 00:42:01,240
It's true because yeah, like if you're a director, for example, you're the one whose name everyone's

860
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:03,440
going to go, it was their film.

861
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,920
I actually don't like that thing, like a film by this person or like when the director gets

862
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,600
all the glory because it's made by an army of people who work so hard.

863
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:18,640
And yeah, but it's like that, it is that thing on a set when everyone wants to go home and

864
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,080
it's raining and you're already overtime and everyone's done it for not very much.

865
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,120
So they're not really going to get proper overtime rates or anything.

866
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,240
And the director's like, no, stay here and get my vision.

867
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:40,000
I've even been on those as a director on one of my early attempts at making something.

868
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,120
And I remember it went to the overtime and even I was at the end of my tether just going,

869
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,400
no, we're going to wrap because I don't care.

870
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,660
It had gone overtime mostly for the fact that it was just like pure lack of understanding

871
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:53,900
back then of experience.

872
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:58,280
And nowadays I was like, oh my God, I should have just scrapped that one because it was

873
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,440
like, but that's hindsight for you.

874
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,360
Hindsight's 2020, we learn all the time.

875
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:04,360
You learn so much.

876
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Yeah.

877
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,920
And I think like, you know, productive making anything, as you said earlier is hard.

878
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,400
So you're never going to be like a hundred percent.

879
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,360
And you do kind of find your people over the years.

880
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,560
You do find who works well with and who you don't work well with.

881
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:21,560
A hundred percent.

882
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:22,560
Yeah.

883
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,520
And those like that synergy that can come from a really great team that know each other

884
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,040
really well and work together really well is like that's worth miles.

885
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,040
You know?

886
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,040
Yeah.

887
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,280
I think, I think one of the best compliments I ever got from one of my, um, an amazing

888
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,440
friend and composer, um, it was, uh, Luna Pan.

889
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,760
Um, and she said to me, she was like, you just let me do things like you just let me

890
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:44,760
create.

891
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Um, cause she has worked for like a whole bunch of different things doing music.

892
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,840
And she said the problem is when she's in big productions, they're very specific about

893
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,180
what they want.

894
00:43:56,180 --> 00:44:01,960
But when you're in smaller independent productions, they're very much like, here's the vibe go

895
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:02,960
for go wild.

896
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:03,960
Yeah.

897
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:04,960
Yeah.

898
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,720
And that is actually, as we were talking about before, like what is someone getting from

899
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:08,720
a project?

900
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:13,160
Sometimes it can be that because I work with people all the time who are like really experienced,

901
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,660
but they're happy to come and work on something for not very much because it's a creative

902
00:44:17,660 --> 00:44:20,800
opportunity and actually then you have to honor that as well.

903
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:21,800
Yeah.

904
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,480
And if you're looking at something like a composer who's very generously giving their time and

905
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:32,040
they're very experienced composer, you have to let them do what they came on for, get

906
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,880
their creative expression across and find something that you're both happy with.

907
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,880
Yeah.

908
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,280
And, and no, and I think whether, you know, they, you know, just be patient with people

909
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,280
as well.

910
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,840
Like, um, time is precious to everyone.

911
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:44,840
Yeah.

912
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,320
And, um, that's one of the things I say, if you've, if you've got, uh, and, and I think

913
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:50,320
it's also been nice to everyone.

914
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Like clear communication, it goes down to any relationship, really clear communication,

915
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,760
everyone knowing what they want out of a project, what they're excited for about that project.

916
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:07,040
Because, um, I've, yeah, from script to screen to post-production versus anything you do,

917
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,040
it's hard.

918
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,560
It's, and it's going to change from the moment it's on that paper to the end result, it's

919
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,440
going to shape into something else.

920
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,440
Yeah.

921
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,160
And you hope that everyone involved likes the final image and likes what the product

922
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:21,160
has become.

923
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,160
Yeah.

924
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,200
It's not going to please everyone, but, um, you know, that's the Achilles heel that we

925
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,800
face as creators.

926
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,120
Um, like, does that stress you out all the time?

927
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:36,040
Um, yeah, cause like you do work with a number of creatives to make anything happen.

928
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,760
And so if it's like a production designer or a cinematographer that isn't getting what

929
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:47,640
they wanted and you're trying to figure out where that, you know, that disconnect is,

930
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:53,440
like it is like, you do want everyone to be happy, but there can really only be one vision

931
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,040
at the end of the day.

932
00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:00,840
Um, but it's like, it's, those are kind of the disappointing ones where it's like a battle.

933
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,980
I think like creatives who challenge you is fantastic because then like it becomes this

934
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:10,260
better thing, but you do sometimes get into these dynamics where you're just butting heads

935
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:12,040
and you're not going to agree on anything.

936
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,040
Yeah.

937
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,840
So you sort of have to like either maybe go your separate ways or like figure something

938
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,440
out, but it's like, it's so much better when you're just sort of on the same page, but

939
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,040
you are challenging each other, but the project is just becoming better and better for it.

940
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,240
I think like those relationships, you just need to make sure that everyone's putting

941
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,340
the project first, not their own ego.

942
00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:36,760
That's like the biggest shortcoming of projects when it's like, it becomes about yourself.

943
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:42,500
It's, you need to always put the story first, like, and not like what cool technical thing

944
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:43,500
can I try?

945
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:46,440
It's like, it's got to be story, story, story for me.

946
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,920
I 100% agree with that.

947
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,800
Like, you know, and that comes down to the controversial of like probably also because

948
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,800
like, you know, sometimes amazing shots, like you can have the best cinematography ever

949
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,600
and certain shots are pinnacle.

950
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:01,600
Yeah.

951
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,320
But, um, you know, sometimes I feel like a performance really kind of shapes a lot of

952
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,320
what the shots.

953
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,320
100%.

954
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:14,520
And that's like, when I'm on a set, I, whether I'm a director, an AD or producer, it's like,

955
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,040
my thing is that I would rather spend less time on the setup of a shot or getting the

956
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,240
lighting perfect and have more time to do more takes where you get the performances.

957
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:27,320
And that's probably just because of my performance background and because I am a character led

958
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,040
piece performance director.

959
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,040
Yeah.

960
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,600
But I think that that is the most important.

961
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:33,600
Yeah.

962
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,020
Having the time for the performances.

963
00:47:35,020 --> 00:47:40,000
And like the funny thing is we live in this world where people watch TikTok videos and

964
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,560
all these like really like low quality videos that have jump cuts and have like a shot on

965
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:51,200
a 720p phone with like a blurry lens and no one cares.

966
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,540
I find that a bit disappointing that like people are more likely to watch that than

967
00:47:55,540 --> 00:47:57,360
like this film we slaved over.

968
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,560
But okay, it is something to remember.

969
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,720
Like it's that people are interested in a story and they're interested in a character

970
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:07,800
that they find interesting, whether that's on TikTok or in a film more than they are

971
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,280
in all the technical stuff.

972
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,280
100%.

973
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,960
And I feel like, you know, people just don't know what to do with that.

974
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,620
Like a lot of the time they're like, what is, you know, how do I deal with this kind

975
00:48:17,620 --> 00:48:21,680
of level of, you know, storytelling?

976
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,360
And I feel like it's a it's a generational thing as well as like, particularly if you're

977
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:30,600
a film lover, like you have to be a film lover to really appreciate half this stuff.

978
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:31,600
Yeah.

979
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,120
And I think like, you know, when we create stuff and when we sort of like, you know,

980
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,880
put stuff together and then someone consumes it in like Netflix or Stan and then they go,

981
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:43,880
oh yeah, that was great.

982
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,200
Or they watched on YouTube and they're like, yeah, that was cool.

983
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,200
And you're like, I spent ages working on that.

984
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,200
Yeah.

985
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,720
I saw a meme recently where it was like the most hurtful thing to a filmmaker is when

986
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:58,440
you're showing someone your work and they're like, oh yeah, just start it.

987
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,440
I'm just going to grab something.

988
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:00,440
I'll be back.

989
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,560
No, like I spent an hour on that opening shot.

990
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:10,520
Like you have to invest in this character right from the beginning.

991
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:18,280
I remember once watching all my friends, all my friends short films that she directed on

992
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,320
her TV at her house and it was like on her birthday.

993
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,560
And I remember sitting there just going, God, your editing is really good.

994
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:25,560
And like, it's really on point.

995
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,120
But I was like, it was one of those things that when you've got an audience and I guess

996
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,520
it gets in your own head a bit, like are you a confident director knowing your, or do you

997
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,400
kind of just go after you've done something?

998
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:38,400
Cause I'm a bit of both.

999
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,400
Yeah.

1000
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,400
I generally hate things as I've shot them.

1001
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,800
I hate everything I've made, but I don't know.

1002
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:50,240
I think it's just because next time you want to do it even better and you always are learning

1003
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:55,960
and nothing is ever as great as it was in your head in the first place.

1004
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,640
So yeah, I sort of hate showing people things or being judged on previous work because it's

1005
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:01,640
like, oh, I can do better.

1006
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:02,640
I know.

1007
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,200
Um, but you have to just let go at some point.

1008
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,960
I think it's always my favorite thing is when I've, I sometimes send people scenes that

1009
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,120
they're in, like, you know, a rough edit and my favorite is like, Oh, what did everyone

1010
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:16,120
think?

1011
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:17,720
And then just sometimes everyone's like, Oh, that was great.

1012
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,760
And then sometimes you get, that was good.

1013
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,360
And you're just like, what did I do wrong?

1014
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,560
I almost just died inside.

1015
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:30,920
Like it's that level of, you know, a kind of based on personality or anything like that

1016
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,840
and who they are as a person and how they reflect on their own work as well.

1017
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:41,640
And that's hard because I think, you know, you remember everyone as being individuals

1018
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,280
and you've, I have this thing when you're, when you watch a film, you forget that the

1019
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,680
actor actors are acting and become the characters, but because actors, when they watch themselves,

1020
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,600
they can't remove themselves from the performance.

1021
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,740
They go, Oh, it was okay.

1022
00:50:55,740 --> 00:50:57,000
My performance was off.

1023
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,000
I didn't love that.

1024
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,000
The scene's okay.

1025
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,000
Yeah.

1026
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,880
Like, yeah, whenever you send actors the film, I get terrified doing that because I'm like,

1027
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,880
what if I hate their performance?

1028
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,440
But you know, you had to just make all the choices that were right for the film in the

1029
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:11,440
room.

1030
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,000
Maybe it was an even slightly worse performance, but it hinted at this other thing that was

1031
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,000
important.

1032
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,280
Um, but yeah, actors, uh, the people to get feedback from the overall piece of art, cause

1033
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,720
they're just going to look at themselves.

1034
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:23,720
That's what I do.

1035
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:24,720
There's an actor like, was I amazing?

1036
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:25,720
Was I not?

1037
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:33,360
I think it's like one of my really close friends is an amazing writer and, um, I ever, I will

1038
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,040
send him stuff that I've done.

1039
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,080
And he goes, that's good.

1040
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,040
That is less good, but he's very honest.

1041
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,000
He's just like, you have great moments here.

1042
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,380
Let's scrap this half.

1043
00:51:42,380 --> 00:51:45,640
He's constructive and he never, but he's encouraging.

1044
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:46,640
That's the difference.

1045
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,720
Whereas if you, like, I feel like if you send people who just like, but when it comes to

1046
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:53,320
his own work is the same, he's like, oh, it's terrible.

1047
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:54,320
Yeah.

1048
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,320
Yeah.

1049
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,360
You have to find your people as well to get feedback from, because like getting feedback

1050
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,160
is really hard because it's often very conflicting.

1051
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,040
It's like, Oh, have you thought of this entirely different thing?

1052
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,280
And you have to hold strong to like why you originally wanted to make it.

1053
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,560
And you have to find the right people who are going to get what you were going for.

1054
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,560
Yeah.

1055
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,200
And, um, that will give you hopefully useful feedback.

1056
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:23,240
I think it's also like, um, you know, it's, it's how I judge my own photography, which

1057
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:24,840
is why, like I had this thing.

1058
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,880
I remember a couple of years back, I was asked by one of my friends if I wanted to sell my

1059
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:29,880
photography in a store.

1060
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:30,880
Yeah.

1061
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,600
I was like the sheer dread and anxiety that I felt.

1062
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,560
I was like, Oh God, is everyone going to hate this and not buy it?

1063
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:38,560
Yeah.

1064
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,760
And I just couldn't, I couldn't even comprehend ever doing that in an actual store and having

1065
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:47,360
randoms pick up my work and go, Oh yeah, that could be nice on my wall.

1066
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,600
I was like, why?

1067
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:54,120
But it's one of those things that I feel like whenever you take something yourself or you

1068
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,600
make something yourself, yeah, it's, it's the complete removal.

1069
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:02,040
I, I, I tend to like things years later and hate on it less, but I've had time away from

1070
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,040
it.

1071
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,040
Yeah, me too.

1072
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,040
Yeah.

1073
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,000
Cause you're not caught up in like, Oh, it could have been so much better if we didn't

1074
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,600
have that one issue that happened.

1075
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,960
Yeah, and just see the piece for what it was.

1076
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:18,120
And sometimes, and sometimes like, look, and I say this, um, you know, sometimes, um, uh,

1077
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:24,640
you know, like if you keep refining like the scene to the point of it, like not even feeling

1078
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,720
right anymore, you probably overworked something or you've overdone it.

1079
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,720
Yeah.

1080
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:33,480
Like I've seen some edits where like it feels too quick and I've gone back to an earlier

1081
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,240
draft that I'm like, Oh yeah, I did that one like a day.

1082
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:37,240
That one's fine.

1083
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:38,240
I'll work on that one instead.

1084
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:39,240
Yeah.

1085
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:41,640
But you need fresh eyes often in that process.

1086
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,720
And that's like being in the edit is really hard.

1087
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,280
I'm editing something at the moment that I directed.

1088
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,240
I'm working with an editor to edit something I'm directing.

1089
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:51,480
I'm not the one editing.

1090
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,480
Thank goodness.

1091
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:59,880
Um, but yeah, it's like, yeah, it's too, you'd be too close, but, um, yeah, I think it's

1092
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:04,600
like, you do have to keep going back to, okay, if I didn't know anything about this, would

1093
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:05,600
I get it?

1094
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,200
Like you have to keep trying to think as a first time viewer.

1095
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,920
And I think you save your people as well.

1096
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:15,520
Like, okay, let's wait to get into a rough cut that I've had feedback on to give to the

1097
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,440
producer and wait for that.

1098
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,960
And there is something about sitting in a rough cut screening where when people are

1099
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,400
watching it for the first time, you actually have more perspective as well.

1100
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,240
Cause you're like, Oh, what are they going to think of that?

1101
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:28,760
Not knowing everything else.

1102
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,480
And it's like, that's refreshing.

1103
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,480
Yeah.

1104
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:37,640
I think, um, I, I remember when I was, you know, like little and I used to ask my mom

1105
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,280
because they gave me a VH like a little video camera.

1106
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,800
So I had like your little cassette tapes that you could put in and record.

1107
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,840
And then, you know, it was back in the day we had to plug your camera in, play it in

1108
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,360
real time to digitize it into the computer.

1109
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,920
It was great technology back then and then, uh, late nineties, early 2000s.

1110
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:59,480
And I remember my mom was in one of them and my mom and dad can't act to say that, but

1111
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,640
I just remember being so proud of like my childhood dream.

1112
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,720
And then we watched it every so often.

1113
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:11,640
We've got the old one and it's just these bad effects and everything.

1114
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,080
My dad's in one of them and it's, yeah, it's just my brother who was 16 at the time's in

1115
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:22,920
it and it just, I, I'm like 10 or 11 and I just, yeah, it's so great.

1116
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:29,780
It's so bad, but it's so funny because I look back and I go, God, like there's just a madness

1117
00:55:29,780 --> 00:55:34,480
of I made everything myself because that's what I thought filmmaking was.

1118
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,760
I didn't think there was a crew because back then you didn't have, like, you didn't understand

1119
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:38,760
how filming can work.

1120
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,760
Yeah.

1121
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,200
And yeah, it's just like everything I made was through myself.

1122
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,760
Like I had tin foil and something and you know, just made it work.

1123
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,880
Like yeah, you, you, um, you just kind of improvise.

1124
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:49,880
Yeah.

1125
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:50,880
I love that.

1126
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:56,800
Like it's, it's almost more beautiful when you stripped all the like complexities out

1127
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:57,800
of film.

1128
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:58,800
Yeah.

1129
00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:59,800
Yeah.

1130
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,600
Do you think you'd ever do that again where you're just kind of strip everything back

1131
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:06,000
and kind of do it with a bare skeleton crew to make something interesting?

1132
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,000
I don't know.

1133
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,040
I think that would be, that would be really cool to do.

1134
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,800
And I think actually sometimes projects are better when they are like kind of talking

1135
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:20,000
about before that synergy of a small team that know each other well and adding to it.

1136
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,000
Yeah.

1137
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,000
Tempting.

1138
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,480
I think, you know, I'm sort of at a point in my career where everything's becoming a

1139
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,760
bigger team and a bigger team.

1140
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,480
And so, yeah, it'd be really interesting to go back.

1141
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:35,720
Actually I AD'd this film many years ago that we made with a really small team, like five

1142
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:37,400
people down south.

1143
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,840
And it was such a nice crew.

1144
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,440
And I think like that film became way better just because everyone was like giving it their

1145
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,320
everything and it was, you know, the actors were having a really good time, which I think

1146
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,760
is important as well because they were excited to show up each day and give it their all

1147
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:54,760
for 10 hours.

1148
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,800
Cause that is the thing that people forget about actors of like you, all the crew are

1149
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:04,360
going and doing this shoot and it is very tiring for 10 hours of lifting stuff in a

1150
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,360
day.

1151
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,840
But I think the actors have like the hardest of like, they have to express emotions like

1152
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,120
on cue for 10 hours in a day.

1153
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,280
And like it is exhausting.

1154
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,360
And so when they're having a good time, I think it makes a big difference.

1155
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:19,360
Absolutely.

1156
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:24,120
And I feel like when you're enjoying and laughing and being getting like silly and able to have

1157
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:29,560
fun with it, but also if it's a highly emotional impacting scene, you're also able to kind

1158
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:35,720
of, you know, and you know, it's the thing of like, you know, projects falling through

1159
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,520
or they're not happening no more due to any sort of difficulty.

1160
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,080
That's the worst thing to tell the people.

1161
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:46,160
It's like, well, that's not happening anymore because people get heartbroken over the ideas

1162
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,680
that sometimes never get made.

1163
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,900
And I think this industry, like I want to ask you more about this, but I think this

1164
00:57:52,900 --> 00:57:57,560
industry in particular is it's very easy to burn bridges by accident or on purpose.

1165
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,640
Like it depends on the kind of person you are.

1166
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:01,640
I hate you all.

1167
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,280
I never want to work with any of you again.

1168
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:05,280
Yeah.

1169
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,240
Because we were talking about off mic, but yeah, this industry is particularly very sensitive

1170
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:10,600
in a lot of ways.

1171
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,160
Like how have you circumnavigated that as well?

1172
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,200
I find it's fully word of mouth.

1173
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,440
Like I get all my gigs from recommendations from other people.

1174
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,840
And I think, yeah, that's so important, like keeping those relationships good.

1175
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,880
And it's like, what is more important?

1176
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:33,120
Like getting that shot that you have to annoy everyone for to get, or like having a team

1177
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,720
that you can go forward onto the next project with.

1178
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,280
Yeah, it's a hundred percent word of mouth.

1179
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,680
And I think like every now and then I've annoyed people that I found out about later that I

1180
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,200
didn't know I did, or I don't know how I did.

1181
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,520
And I guess sometimes you just aren't compatible with people as well.

1182
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,800
And it's not really anyone's fault.

1183
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,280
It's just you don't work well together.

1184
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:53,620
Oh, a hundred percent.

1185
00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:55,600
And that you just probably won't work with them again.

1186
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:56,600
And that's okay.

1187
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:57,600
Yeah.

1188
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,640
Because it's not the best relationship and working style.

1189
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:02,640
It's not cohesive.

1190
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,560
So you find other people that you do work well with.

1191
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:05,560
Oh, a hundred percent.

1192
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,360
And I don't think everyone works well or best together.

1193
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,280
No, no, you could like gather all the best, the people you think are all the best people

1194
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,260
in the world and they probably won't make as good of a film as like a particular team

1195
00:59:17,260 --> 00:59:21,520
that all really feel strongly about a project.

1196
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:22,520
Yeah.

1197
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,720
And I mean, like it's one of those things.

1198
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:30,040
And I think it's also, it's such a, like if you're co-writing or you're writing anything

1199
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:35,040
and you are, you know, like, um, that's a challenge as well of whose name gets, you

1200
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,040
know, highlighted.

1201
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:37,040
Yeah.

1202
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,880
You know, is it a, is it actually a co-writer?

1203
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,960
Is it someone that wrote, like my favorite is, um, you know, getting sometimes pitching

1204
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:44,960
ideas to people.

1205
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:45,960
Yeah.

1206
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,200
And then they'll write something and they think, and then you kind of don't know where

1207
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,200
to put your name.

1208
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:51,200
That sounds familiar.

1209
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,200
Yes.

1210
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,400
I thought I told you that idea in a pub one.

1211
00:59:55,400 --> 01:00:01,680
Um, yeah, I actually, I think that I don't care that much about like, um, credits as

1212
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:03,240
much as a lot of people.

1213
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:09,040
Um, but I, yeah, I'm sort of more interested in the work itself and being like proud of

1214
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,040
it.

1215
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:11,400
And it does get really funny.

1216
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,480
Like there's certain projects where you'll be in those negotiations about credits or

1217
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,800
like contracts or money for so long that they never actually happen.

1218
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,160
Whereas like if you just get in and make something, I mean, of course it's important, especially

1219
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:28,640
when it might have the potential to make a profit, which most of the stuff I do doesn't.

1220
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:34,240
But when it does, it is important, but I'm really uninterested in it.

1221
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,800
Like I just am so much more interested in the creative side.

1222
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:37,800
A hundred percent.

1223
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:42,280
And I think it's like everything I've written, I tend to like, if I really draft and stuff

1224
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,680
and things that have gotten delayed due to COVID or anything like that, it's just, you

1225
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:46,680
know, just life.

1226
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:52,800
Um, but anything that I have like original projects that I've done, um, and like I've

1227
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:57,200
net, unless I'm writing it, I generally don't put my name in it.

1228
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,680
I don't even like putting my name as a directing credit, particularly.

1229
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,160
I'm like, it's kind of a concept by someone else.

1230
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,080
So or a story by someone else.

1231
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:10,480
Like I spend two years and the drafters in my drawer upstairs, um, writing a, um, co-writing

1232
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:16,840
a film, but because we didn't really have much actual co-writing other than just me

1233
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,640
suggesting plot elements and writing a few lines of dialogue changes.

1234
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:21,640
Yeah.

1235
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:26,240
I, and I said to my friend Felicity Keep, I said, my name's not on this.

1236
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:27,480
This is your work.

1237
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,160
So at the end of the day, it's her idea.

1238
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,160
It's her story.

1239
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,160
Yeah.

1240
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,440
And as long as she's happy with it and it's workable, then that's perfect.

1241
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:40,440
Like I want to talk more about you growing up and, and you know, like what, for me, what

1242
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,080
was your childhood and what did that look like for you growing up and getting into this

1243
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,080
world?

1244
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:46,080
Yeah.

1245
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,520
Um, I, it's an interesting one.

1246
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:54,040
A lot of people often ask my brother and I, if like our parents were in film or actors,

1247
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,760
because we both started acting and we both then went into filmmaking.

1248
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,320
And it's not, we, they, my parents didn't do that.

1249
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:06,480
We just, my brother was a good graphic artist and then he went to the McDonald college,

1250
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:11,680
which is a high school of performing arts and they had sort of told him that he could

1251
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:19,360
focus in on graphic art, but he then, um, had to do either drama, ballet, musical theater,

1252
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,920
music, like dance.

1253
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,440
Um, and he couldn't really do anything.

1254
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,680
Like he didn't really have particular skills, but the great thing about acting is anyone

1255
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:28,680
can act really.

1256
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:33,400
Um, not everyone can act well, but you can always give it a shot, but he started acting

1257
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:37,260
there and then when he's two years older, when I went to school, I went to the same

1258
01:02:37,260 --> 01:02:39,640
school and started doing acting there as well.

1259
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:44,840
And it really just ignited our, our love of it and our kind of careers as well, because

1260
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,640
we both got agents around that time.

1261
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,200
I got one, we, I was 10 and he was 12 when we both signed with an agent and then we just

1262
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,880
started working and had a lot of great opportunities.

1263
01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:00,660
Um, I did a few plays with Sydney theater company when I was young.

1264
01:03:00,660 --> 01:03:06,360
So I did a play called war of the roses and was in that with Kate Blanchett and, um, Pamela

1265
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,840
Rabe and so many other incredible actors.

1266
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,520
And that I was 14 then.

1267
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,440
And I think that just like really started this for me, like, oh wow, could I actually

1268
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:16,440
be an actor?

1269
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,560
Could I actually do this as a career?

1270
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:19,560
Because I loved it.

1271
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:24,800
And then I did another play, um, when I was 16 called blood wedding and that was a much

1272
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:31,940
bigger role and I played the moon, um, and did lots of crazy things like swing on a swing

1273
01:03:31,940 --> 01:03:35,940
on a swing, uh, with blood in my mouth and spouted out the audience and like had this

1274
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:40,080
huge costume on and, um, yeah, it was like, it was great.

1275
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:45,680
Um, but yeah, I think, and then also, um, yeah, it started acting in screen as well.

1276
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,400
So a few feature films and voiceover work as well.

1277
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:54,720
And, um, uh, like pack to the rafters, a few other TV shows like that.

1278
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,760
And yeah, I, I just loved, I loved acting.

1279
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:03,320
Um, and I loved getting to like pick up a script with a new character that you were

1280
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:08,720
going to know everything about soon and getting that opportunity to be someone else.

1281
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,560
And, um, like, I think I just love stories.

1282
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,080
Like I've always loved telling stories to family members.

1283
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:19,640
I used to like tell my parents bedtime stories, even though they were like the adult, I would

1284
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,400
like my mom would be going to sleep with me like, can I just make up a story for you?

1285
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:24,560
And I'd like tell a story.

1286
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,180
So I think like that was what it was that like, when I started acting and I got to really

1287
01:04:29,180 --> 01:04:33,920
invest in this one person, that was so different to me or like had this special skill, like

1288
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,600
I found that so much fun.

1289
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:41,200
Um, and yeah, so I think like all through high school, I juggled acting alongside trying

1290
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,680
to still do okay academically.

1291
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,960
And, um, yeah, it was like a great process.

1292
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:53,000
And I think though the most, like sometimes I wonder like, should I, it would be nice

1293
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:59,000
sometimes I think to have like a real person job nine to five and like have, know what's

1294
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,560
going to happen in my life, have an arc, be like, Hey, then I'll get promoted to this.

1295
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:03,960
Then I'll get promoted to this.

1296
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,920
And you have to like throw that away when you work in the arts, cause who knows what

1297
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:07,920
will happen.

1298
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,060
But I actually, I find that really exciting.

1299
01:05:10,060 --> 01:05:11,060
Like I love that.

1300
01:05:11,060 --> 01:05:13,400
Like I love not knowing what's going to happen next year.

1301
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,200
Like some huge project I could have never dreamed of might come up and then I'll be

1302
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,560
spending half my year on that.

1303
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,720
And I never would have thought I would.

1304
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,160
And also like the relationships you build with people, because artists are such interesting

1305
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,280
people and you have so much to learn from them.

1306
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,360
Like it's like, yeah, the weirdest people in the world are actors.

1307
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,680
And I love that.

1308
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,720
Like you get to like, yeah, spend time with people who think about the world and it's

1309
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,080
such a different way to most people.

1310
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:45,560
Rather than media and the corporation and mediocre people.

1311
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:46,560
Yeah.

1312
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:51,120
Well, I guess just society puts you into these squares and it's like, have you got a good

1313
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,120
job?

1314
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,120
Have you got a relationship?

1315
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,200
And it's like actors and artists don't really care about that stuff.

1316
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:57,200
No, no, no.

1317
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,360
I think my favorite conversation is like, how, you know, um, when are you going to buy

1318
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:02,360
a house?

1319
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:03,360
Yeah, exactly.

1320
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,400
Like, are you financially secure?

1321
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,400
I guess so.

1322
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:07,400
Yeah, exactly.

1323
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:08,400
Yeah.

1324
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,400
They always have relatives that worry about you.

1325
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:11,400
Yeah.

1326
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,840
So you're still doing that acting play thing.

1327
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:14,840
Cool.

1328
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:15,840
Yeah.

1329
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,120
It's nice you do your hobby more of the time than others.

1330
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:20,120
Yeah.

1331
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:26,960
It's like, um, and I think that that's kind of a very interesting thing because, you know,

1332
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,040
like parents, parents who haven't been in that industry don't necessarily know what

1333
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,440
to expect when their kids enter that industry.

1334
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:39,720
And especially like, um, you know, when both their children suddenly just jump straight

1335
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:41,080
into it and do well.

1336
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:42,080
Yeah.

1337
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:43,080
Um, oh, a hundred percent.

1338
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:44,080
Yeah.

1339
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,120
Our parents were like amazing because, um, yeah, they just loved it.

1340
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:50,640
So supportive and very lucky in that regard.

1341
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:55,800
Um, yeah, my mom like immediately was like, oh yes, I'm going to be an un-set mom.

1342
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:56,800
I'm going to show up.

1343
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,360
But she wasn't a stage mom.

1344
01:06:58,360 --> 01:06:59,920
She just loved being around it.

1345
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:02,720
And if they ever needed an extra, she'd be like, oh, do it.

1346
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:06,160
And like, she loved being, yeah, a part of that world.

1347
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:12,000
And my dad is like super, super supportive and will like do anything to, to, he always

1348
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,840
was like, don't have a plan B, just like only have creative stuff.

1349
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,520
Like just put that forward because yeah, you can live in our house.

1350
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:20,520
You can do it.

1351
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:25,800
We all support you so that you can put that forward first because otherwise it won't happen.

1352
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:26,800
That's so nice.

1353
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:27,800
So do you still love it?

1354
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:28,800
I'm so lucky.

1355
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:29,800
Do you still love it?

1356
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:30,800
No, I don't.

1357
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,800
I've not lived at home for about five years, but I did milk it for a little while.

1358
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:41,200
I think, I think I moved out around 22, but, um, yeah, I did, I did milk it as much as

1359
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,000
I could until I started to get an income, I guess.

1360
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,000
Yeah.

1361
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,000
And then it was like, oh no.

1362
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Yeah.

1363
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,000
Oh no.

1364
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,000
Yeah.

1365
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,320
But it's like those things with your parents where you can't do anything wrong.

1366
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,760
Like you'd be in a play and they'd be like, you were the best person in it.

1367
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,760
And it's like, stop saying that.

1368
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:01,520
Like, if you just, you're always going to say that you're so biased, but it's lovely.

1369
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:05,480
Like I certainly cannot complain for having very supportive, lovely parents.

1370
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:06,480
That's so nice.

1371
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:07,480
That's so wholesome.

1372
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:08,480
I know.

1373
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:09,480
It's very lucky.

1374
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,160
So, so it's just you and your brother.

1375
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:13,160
Yep.

1376
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:14,160
Yep.

1377
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:15,160
And then there's two of us.

1378
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,920
Um, and we, like, I think I've just copied his life because he was an actor and I was

1379
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:19,920
like, I'll be an actor.

1380
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,680
And then he was a filmmaker and I was like, I'll be a filmmaker.

1381
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:23,680
And now years later.

1382
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:24,680
Yeah.

1383
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,600
I'm just still copying him, but no, it's, it's nice to have someone who really gets

1384
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:34,680
you and, um, yeah, like we know each other's journeys really well, cause we've also sort

1385
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,720
of experienced similar ones.

1386
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,720
Um, but he, he's, his name's James Fraser.

1387
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:45,520
He, like he directs and edits and is now starting to focus more on writing, which I think I'm

1388
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,240
not that interested in writing more and directing and producing.

1389
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:50,640
So it's nice.

1390
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:55,720
We're finally starting to diverge just a little bit.

1391
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,560
Cause I mean, like, what's the age difference between the two of you?

1392
01:08:58,560 --> 01:08:59,560
We're pretty close in age.

1393
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,000
We're 21 months apart.

1394
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,440
God, that is.

1395
01:09:02,440 --> 01:09:03,440
Yeah, we're close.

1396
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:04,440
Your parents got busy.

1397
01:09:04,440 --> 01:09:05,440
Yeah.

1398
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:07,440
I'm like one done, another one in.

1399
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:13,600
Um, but yeah, we actually, we fight like crazy and like, we're really competitive people.

1400
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:18,040
So like we, it'll be like, oh, what's the best way to get to where we're going.

1401
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,480
And then we'll argue about like, no, it's definitely this way.

1402
01:09:20,480 --> 01:09:21,640
No, it's definitely this way.

1403
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,440
Or we'll play like a board game and just have huge arguments.

1404
01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:29,160
My partner finds it really funny cause I'll be like, no, James cheated.

1405
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,560
He wasn't on the fast track in cranium.

1406
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,720
He was on the slow track and he's like, absolutely.

1407
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:34,720
I was not.

1408
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:38,080
And then we're just like butt heads for ages while everyone hates it.

1409
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:42,520
So I, I'm hopefully starting to become a little bit more of an adult with that, where I just

1410
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:44,040
go, you know what?

1411
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,040
This doesn't matter.

1412
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,040
Who cares?

1413
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,080
Even who wins this game.

1414
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,240
Let's just all shut up.

1415
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,040
Like it's, it's nice actually to have like a figure in your life will tell you like the

1416
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:55,360
most honest truth.

1417
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:56,360
Yeah.

1418
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,360
I know you need that.

1419
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,080
You need like, you need someone who's just very upfront with you.

1420
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:02,640
Especially if it's your sibling.

1421
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:03,640
You're kind of like perfect.

1422
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:04,640
Yeah.

1423
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:09,400
You sort of, I mean, it's not always the case, but most of the time with siblings, you're,

1424
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:13,560
you're stuck with each other and you're not going to just like never talk to each other

1425
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:14,560
again.

1426
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:19,120
So you at least have that confidence that you can like say something or suggest something

1427
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,320
and they're not going to like leave you forever and never want to talk to you again.

1428
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:24,320
Cause you have to.

1429
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:30,360
I think it's like, um, you know, my, my brother's, he used to give me dating advice and I just,

1430
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:31,680
I did not take it.

1431
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:32,680
Oh yeah.

1432
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:37,960
Well that might be overstepping the mark on something that they don't know you about.

1433
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:43,640
No, I should think, I think it was just his eagerness to get me, um, get me out there

1434
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:45,200
when I didn't particularly want to.

1435
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:49,560
But that's, that's kind of brotherly advice for that I got.

1436
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,200
But it was like, you know, like I, all my family are academics.

1437
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:54,720
So I, and I'm the creative one.

1438
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,880
So like very shift in avenues and they all knew that.

1439
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,840
But yeah, like, um, have they been supportive?

1440
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:02,840
Yeah.

1441
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,000
My dad is very supportive.

1442
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:09,000
My dad more so because, um, my dad was a photographer for many years.

1443
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,240
So it's like, he actually has a creative background.

1444
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,200
Um, but he also was a teacher and a journalist.

1445
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,360
So it was kind of like, I had a bit more of a structure to it.

1446
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:22,760
Um, but yeah, he's super, um, like creative and supportive of it.

1447
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:24,280
And he just kind of goes, yeah, do what you want.

1448
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:25,520
Like he's never been worried.

1449
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:26,800
Yeah, that's nice.

1450
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,760
The worry comes more from my brother and my mom.

1451
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:34,400
So it's like the stress of like, um, uh, you know, financial gain and, and, and what you're

1452
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:38,440
going to be doing and stuff like that is just, that's where the worry comes from.

1453
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:39,440
Yeah.

1454
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,160
Um, yeah, because they want what's best for you.

1455
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,160
Yeah.

1456
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,880
Like everyone that's always hopefully people's intention.

1457
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,360
That's just sometimes not as welcome, but yeah, that's interesting.

1458
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,400
Your dad was a photographer and is very supportive.

1459
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,920
I think my dad's a bit the same because he always wanted to be a writer and he's actually

1460
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,680
like does write a book whenever he's not doing his like nine to five.

1461
01:11:58,680 --> 01:11:59,960
Corporate job.

1462
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:04,360
And I think he's like, I wish I could have only focused on that thing that I loved and

1463
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:05,640
he wants that for us.

1464
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:07,240
And so maybe your dad's the same.

1465
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:08,240
I think, I think absolutely.

1466
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:09,240
I think the same.

1467
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:14,120
And I think it's kind of like one of those things that, um, I've, I've loved the jobs

1468
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,080
that I've had over the years, like the over the eight, nine years they've been in the

1469
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:22,360
industry, um, actually longer, I should say like 11 years, um, but all up I've loved all

1470
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:27,360
of them, but they're like what I do in my spare time and you know, outside of those

1471
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,280
actual like corporation hours, I love more.

1472
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:31,280
Yeah.

1473
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:35,280
But it's like, you know, and, and I say this, I remember like this was ages ago and I remember

1474
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:40,280
like when I started this podcast, it was cause of COVID, it started being out of like a love

1475
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:41,880
and a passion for the industry.

1476
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,120
And I remember someone said, do you make money from?

1477
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:49,080
And I said, no, because you come, you get like, it's not profitable and stuff like that.

1478
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,600
But you can, you know, like I know, um, podcasts that you, you know, they sell products on

1479
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,840
them and that's how they make revenue.

1480
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,400
I had no desire to do that.

1481
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:02,360
I was like, this is going to be purely fun out of pocket, you know, like, and, and that's

1482
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:04,480
kind of how I've always lived the industry life.

1483
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:06,920
I'm about to go in the freelance world next year.

1484
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,760
And that's very terrifying, but also very thrilling.

1485
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:11,760
Yeah.

1486
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:16,160
It's a funny one because I think because I grew up as an actor and you know, that was

1487
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,440
actually probably even more uncertain than filmmaking.

1488
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:23,480
I'm pretty comfortable with like not knowing what's next and having faith that something

1489
01:13:23,480 --> 01:13:26,000
will come up because it always does.

1490
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:27,560
It's got some great perks.

1491
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,080
You can take holidays whenever you want.

1492
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:30,080
Oh God.

1493
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:31,080
Yeah.

1494
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:32,080
In your schedule.

1495
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:33,600
You don't need to worry about how much annual leave you have saved up.

1496
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,240
You can take three months off and yeah, like, oh, what do you mean?

1497
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:39,240
You're not available.

1498
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:40,240
I'm on holiday.

1499
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:41,840
I'm in somewhere else in the world.

1500
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,400
And they're like, oh no.

1501
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:44,400
Yeah.

1502
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:45,400
Yeah.

1503
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:46,400
They've got no choice.

1504
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:47,400
You make your own schedule.

1505
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:48,400
You work for yourself in theory.

1506
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Yeah.

1507
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,400
It's much harder at tax time, but that's okay.

1508
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,600
I mean, I mean like that's when you have a good tax agent.

1509
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:59,600
It like, it really does help because I like, although I find it funny that people have

1510
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:05,200
tax agents when like, like who are full time workers and have a contract base.

1511
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:06,200
Yeah.

1512
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,800
And I'm like, you know, taxes, like the ATO isn't that hard.

1513
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:09,800
Yeah.

1514
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:10,800
It's like you have one job.

1515
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,880
You maybe have some like working from home expenses.

1516
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:13,880
Yeah.

1517
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:14,880
Like it's really not that.

1518
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:15,880
Yeah.

1519
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,600
You just put all that details into it and then the government calculator does the rest

1520
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:20,600
and you're done.

1521
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:21,600
Yeah.

1522
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,760
I actually do my own taxes, but I think I might not need to start getting an agent because

1523
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:26,760
it takes too long.

1524
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:28,880
And there is so much.

1525
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:29,880
I'm just particular.

1526
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,880
I'm like, oh, I have to not forget about this one expense.

1527
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,400
It's funny as well, because I always know about agents.

1528
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,160
They do love to just add taxes.

1529
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,200
Like, oh, have you got this, this, this?

1530
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:40,200
Yeah.

1531
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:44,320
Like I remember one thing you could, you know, because of television, because I work in TV,

1532
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,920
you can claim things like random things like movie tickets if you really wanted to.

1533
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:48,920
I'm like, why?

1534
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:49,920
Yeah.

1535
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,680
I mean, I would, but sure.

1536
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,120
Like I can guess I can claim this like $3.60 GST.

1537
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:59,720
I had to use like, you know, for the, you know, the roads.

1538
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:05,360
So yeah, there's all these absurdities that people kind of try.

1539
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:09,440
You know, like I guess, I guess also the thing is like, you know, the cost of living in Sydney

1540
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:12,080
is much higher than it used to be when we were kids.

1541
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:13,080
Yeah.

1542
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:14,080
Which feels like eons ago.

1543
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:15,080
Yeah.

1544
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:16,080
Yeah.

1545
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,400
You know, but it's nuts.

1546
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:19,400
It's funny.

1547
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:20,600
It just keeps going up.

1548
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:25,400
I know it's we're both nineties babies and uh, you know, when you're born in the nineties,

1549
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:29,960
it sort of feels like suddenly the, I just turned 30 this year and that to me is still

1550
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,380
look like a comprehension that I can't quite comprehend.

1551
01:15:33,380 --> 01:15:35,840
And I'm like, well, how, how did this happen?

1552
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:41,960
I still feel like I'm 18, like 19 some days and then some days I, you know, cause I, the

1553
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,840
thing is, and I want to ask you this question.

1554
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:49,400
Do you think the older you've gotten, the more you've had your life under control and,

1555
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:54,120
and, or do you think that it's still as chaotic as when you were a kid?

1556
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,000
It's a good question.

1557
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:01,720
I actually think I'm becoming more under control and like, maybe it's boring, but I am like,

1558
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,360
I know what I need more as well.

1559
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,840
Like, okay, I need a night off or I need like this.

1560
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,520
And maybe when I was a bit younger, I just go, go, go.

1561
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,440
Um, and I, yeah, I think I am.

1562
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:17,440
Maybe it's boring, but I think I am becoming more mature than like when I was 18.

1563
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:24,160
Oh, you know, I often think back though and go, oh, I wish I had that time back.

1564
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:30,000
Like when I was like 18 or 19, I would just spend ages like daydreaming or like writing

1565
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:34,880
poetry or like reading philosophy or people watching or just going to the park and sitting

1566
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:36,580
there and looking at the clouds.

1567
01:16:36,580 --> 01:16:38,440
And I think that's so important.

1568
01:16:38,440 --> 01:16:43,080
Like when you're working on a creative project to have that time to just daydream and think

1569
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:46,880
and you come up with amazing ideas and it's just, you get time to think things through

1570
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:48,760
and I don't have that anymore.

1571
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:53,360
Like I just have crammed everything into within an inch of its life.

1572
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:57,800
And yeah, I think I wouldn't, I think if I, I'm really bad at saying no to things, um,

1573
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,920
but I think I need to start to just find that time for me.

1574
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:01,920
Yeah.

1575
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,560
I think, I think it's really interesting that you say that as well, cause I can't remember

1576
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:08,880
the last time I people watched and that feels like five, six years ago now.

1577
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:10,480
I mean, it's, it's a bit obnoxious.

1578
01:17:10,480 --> 01:17:13,640
Like if you were to kind of say to anyone not in this industry, like, yeah, I like to

1579
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,920
just watch people and come up with like what might be going on in their lives.

1580
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:23,600
I'm just lame, but it's like, it's important as an artist to like think about the world

1581
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,040
and think about your place in it and think about other people's place in it.

1582
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:31,320
Cause life can just like feel like, okay, I go to work, I go home, I watch Netflix,

1583
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,440
I make dinner, I go to work.

1584
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:34,440
I go home.

1585
01:17:34,440 --> 01:17:37,960
Like, and it's like, what is, is that the point to life?

1586
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,080
Like if life's just that, I don't want to like be part of it.

1587
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:42,080
That's boring.

1588
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,480
I think you need to think more deeply about the world.

1589
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:45,480
Yeah.

1590
01:17:45,480 --> 01:17:46,680
And I think I've, you know, I'm the same.

1591
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:48,280
I've always been that way.

1592
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:53,200
And I think it's like ironic cause I never could work in a job that is literally nine

1593
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:54,200
to five.

1594
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:55,800
I've never worked in a nine to five job.

1595
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:56,800
It is not my life.

1596
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,800
It never be my life.

1597
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:04,840
Because like, I just, I used to come up with the weirdest ideas at one o'clock in the morning

1598
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:06,600
and just be like, Oh, I'm going to write that down.

1599
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,560
I used to do that while going to sleep.

1600
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,200
Like I just like jot something down.

1601
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:12,200
And you kind of never stop.

1602
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:16,320
Like once you get into that flow and that groove, you're just kind of like, Oh yes,

1603
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,200
there's another idea and there's another idea.

1604
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:23,440
And yeah, people don't really like, if you're normal people, and I put this in quotation

1605
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:29,020
marks, like, and you're not a creative, like you can kind of see a lot of people just don't

1606
01:18:29,020 --> 01:18:33,640
know entirely what you're talking about when you talk about how your brain works and goes,

1607
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:37,960
this is how I think, and this is like, I think in emotions or I think in like, do people

1608
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:43,880
think you're very much where your heart and your sleeve kind of person or are you very?

1609
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:48,640
I think actually people think I'm really like not sensitive and like abrupt and say exactly

1610
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,360
what I think a lot of the time.

1611
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:51,360
That's what Lisa, I disagree with her statement.

1612
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:52,360
My brother thinks about me.

1613
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:53,360
Yeah.

1614
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:54,360
I don't know.

1615
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:55,360
Maybe today I feel more open.

1616
01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:00,080
I feel like you said at the beginning exactly.

1617
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:03,120
And quote for quote, but I am an open book.

1618
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:04,120
Exactly.

1619
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:05,120
Yeah.

1620
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,960
I like, I would actually rather be seen as that, but I think sometimes, um, yeah, people

1621
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,320
think that I'm just a bit like not sensitive.

1622
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:17,440
I think I am pretty good with like difficult situations in life.

1623
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:21,560
And like, I mean, I'm not, I have this thing where I'm really like terrified of getting

1624
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,840
bad news about something and it like haunts me all the time.

1625
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,160
And if I get a missed call from a number, I don't know, I freak out.

1626
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:31,840
But once I know the news, I'm actually like, maybe it's my first day day skills, but I

1627
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,520
think I'm a good problem solver.

1628
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,080
And I just, I'm like, okay, what can we do next?

1629
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,840
There's no point like, you know, just sitting on this and being upset.

1630
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:40,840
What can we do?

1631
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,720
And so probably people see that side to me more.

1632
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,840
And then, you know, the people closest to me get to see the side.

1633
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,560
I'm like feeling everything deeply.

1634
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,000
And you're like, oh God, that sucked.

1635
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,000
Oh, that was amazing.

1636
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:53,000
Yeah.

1637
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:54,000
It's all the emotions.

1638
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,080
I mean, I think, are you an anxious person as well?

1639
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,080
Like, yeah, I think so.

1640
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:01,920
But yeah, it's a funny thing.

1641
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:06,440
I hate being an anxious person, but I also think it's quite necessary because like, like

1642
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:10,200
if I'm sitting in an edit for something and I'm just like sitting on the front of my seat,

1643
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,680
like, oh, I just need to see this from this person.

1644
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,720
And I'm like feeling that sometimes the editor is like, you okay?

1645
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:18,960
And I'm like, I just, it's my process.

1646
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:22,720
You know, like I need to, I need to worry about everything.

1647
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:28,080
I need to care so much because it's like, it creates better work and it creates what

1648
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:29,080
I care.

1649
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:34,600
And it, yeah, it's like, it's like my burden to bear, but I think it's like good for me

1650
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:35,600
as a filmmaker.

1651
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:36,600
Yeah.

1652
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,800
You did say it was kind of like your superpowers.

1653
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:39,800
Yeah.

1654
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:40,800
Yeah.

1655
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,680
I like, it's painful as heck to me.

1656
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:50,840
Like, but it's like, I think it, I think hopefully it's at least I've found an outlet for it

1657
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:51,840
in filmmaking.

1658
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:52,840
I think, yeah.

1659
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:53,840
Hopefully.

1660
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:59,800
I mean, like you, you, you work hard, like you're extremely busy.

1661
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:00,800
Yeah.

1662
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:06,720
Like that's, that's kind of a good sign that you're good at, otherwise it's the opposite.

1663
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:07,720
Yeah.

1664
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,520
But those like, you know, if you have gone through an experience and you have felt a

1665
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:18,400
certain feeling and then people all the time have also like felt those emotions and can

1666
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:19,400
relate.

1667
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,640
But then as a filmmaker, you get that opportunity to put it onto a screen and have it there

1668
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:26,080
for people to go, oh my gosh, I feel heard.

1669
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:27,760
That's how I felt.

1670
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,720
And I think that that's a really special thing we can do as filmmakers.

1671
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:35,720
So I think, yeah, despite all my anxiety and high strungness, most of the time, I think

1672
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:41,160
like it is a benefit as a filmmaker to have those strong emotions about the world.

1673
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,400
Now you, now you talked about relationship stories and stuff like that.

1674
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:51,480
Have you, because of like, obviously, do you, do you kind of like dictate those stories

1675
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:55,040
towards stuff that you've experienced or like?

1676
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:57,760
Yeah, sometimes.

1677
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:02,560
I think like, I think I take elements of emotions.

1678
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:07,520
Like I'm not one to like make a story based on something that happened in my life.

1679
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:14,280
But I think like when I approach a story, I go, oh, that is exactly how I felt when

1680
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,480
this other thing happened in my life.

1681
01:22:16,480 --> 01:22:20,960
That now is the core guiding true north of this story.

1682
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:22,160
And that's what I'm going to show.

1683
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:23,160
Okay.

1684
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:24,160
How can I show that?

1685
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:25,160
What shots can I use?

1686
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,720
Like, how can I change this arc?

1687
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:31,520
What kind of cast member do I want to find who's going to show that kind of thing?

1688
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:32,760
So yeah, I think so.

1689
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:37,320
And I think there's certain themes that I really resonate with and like ones are maybe

1690
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,360
like mental health and anxiety, but also duty.

1691
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:42,360
I don't know.

1692
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:46,560
I think I've always like taken on this role in my life where I, maybe as I was saying

1693
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:50,760
before, like I try to like problem solve for people and make things better.

1694
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,440
And even in my family, like I was the peacekeeper, like I was the one like, okay guys, how do

1695
01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:55,520
we solve this?

1696
01:22:55,520 --> 01:23:00,320
And I think I always felt this sense of duty, even though no one ever wanted it or expected

1697
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:01,320
it.

1698
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:05,680
I'm really interested in stories where people feel that they, they have to show a certain

1699
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:11,280
face to be okay, or they have to do something that's like breaking their heart and like

1700
01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:15,280
so hard for them to do day to day or look after someone.

1701
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:21,000
But they are trying to show that like it's fine until like it's not, you know, and they

1702
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:25,400
break and it's, it's saying that it's okay to not always be okay.

1703
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,360
Even if you are that person who tries to like fix everything.

1704
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:29,360
Yeah.

1705
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:32,680
Which can be the person who tries to fix everything.

1706
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:33,680
Yeah.

1707
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:34,960
I, yeah, I just do it naturally.

1708
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:41,160
And so I love, like, I think most of the films I've directed have a female protagonist who's

1709
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:44,920
trying to like be okay, but is not okay.

1710
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:50,200
Do you think that's come from your experience of being a woman in society?

1711
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:51,200
I'm sure.

1712
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:52,200
Yeah.

1713
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,800
And I guess like I've always been conscious of making sure I'm coming across like I'm

1714
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:57,240
fine even when I'm not.

1715
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:01,740
And I think like those are, those are just characters that I find really, really interesting.

1716
01:24:01,740 --> 01:24:04,280
And then it's about finding a story around that.

1717
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,240
You know, no one wants to just watch someone sitting at home like I need to do.

1718
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:11,880
You need a really compelling story or no one's going to be interested in watching something.

1719
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:18,400
It is those like core emotions that are my true north for telling a story.

1720
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:19,400
That's awesome.

1721
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:22,880
I was going to ask a bit about like, have you ever had any sort of controversy around

1722
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:28,400
like being a creator, especially like because this industry has become more, you know, slowly

1723
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:33,480
become more women dominated and a lot of like gender diversity going into it.

1724
01:24:33,480 --> 01:24:38,880
We are from an era where it was sort of just coming into that and probably just in the

1725
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,760
last like five years, I'd say has changed dramatically.

1726
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:46,800
Did you have a lot of controversy getting into this industry, especially in the technical

1727
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,520
like first day day producing and everything like being a woman?

1728
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:51,520
Yeah, it's interesting.

1729
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:56,480
Like there's not that many female first day days and it's like kind of because whenever

1730
01:24:56,480 --> 01:25:00,680
a woman is bossy, they can like, people can't take it, but a man can be bossy and that's

1731
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:01,680
fine.

1732
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:02,960
It seems to be.

1733
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,160
So I have had many experiences where I've been working with maybe older crew members

1734
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,960
who were like, Oh, who's this chick telling us what to do?

1735
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:13,960
Whereas I do have skills in that area.

1736
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:18,480
So I just have to remind, remind myself, just back yourself.

1737
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:26,320
But yeah, I am all for like more diversity as a general rule, because I think as filmmakers,

1738
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:32,200
we tell stories and I think if you have more diverse people telling stories that are authentic

1739
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:36,800
to them, that's so important that we're just getting a breadth of stories, not just the

1740
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,120
same people telling the same story again.

1741
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:43,160
Because I think as filmmakers, you do have, as I was saying, like the stories that are

1742
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:47,200
important to me and there are stories that are going to be important to every director.

1743
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:52,640
And if you are just getting the same five people who have had maybe a certain upbringing

1744
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,680
like over and over again, that's all you're going to get.

1745
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,640
And I think, yeah, it's so much better if you can have a breadth of stories that a breadth

1746
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,440
of people can relate to that's so much more authentic and interesting.

1747
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:09,640
So yeah, I actually, I started, I finished film school in 2015 and that was the same

1748
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:14,240
year that the Screen Australia Gender Matters initiative happened.

1749
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:19,240
And I got funding for something that was a female led project straight out of film school.

1750
01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:23,400
And it was a good time, of course, to like go into that.

1751
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:28,320
But yeah, I don't like, I don't see it, it can be controversial because people can be

1752
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,300
like, oh, that's just roles for women.

1753
01:26:30,300 --> 01:26:35,960
It's just like giving them a leg up and pushing men down or other people from other backgrounds

1754
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:36,960
down.

1755
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:43,080
But I don't think that that's true because I think it's like just getting us closer to

1756
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:44,080
even.

1757
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:45,080
Yeah.

1758
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:49,280
And like the, there's sometimes you need those initiatives to do that work.

1759
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:55,120
And then you have people who have the experience necessary because yeah, it gave them a leg

1760
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:56,120
up.

1761
01:26:56,120 --> 01:27:00,840
And I think in so many different areas in casting and in crew where it's like when people

1762
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:05,840
from certain backgrounds get a bit more experienced, then they're one of the pros as well.

1763
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,440
And you don't need to keep going back to the same old people again.

1764
01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:09,440
Yeah.

1765
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:10,440
Oh God, no.

1766
01:27:10,440 --> 01:27:13,440
Can you imagine if you get going back to the same old people?

1767
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:14,440
Yeah.

1768
01:27:14,440 --> 01:27:15,440
Very boring.

1769
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:16,440
Well, like everyone's going to die.

1770
01:27:16,440 --> 01:27:18,760
So you need to train up new people.

1771
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:19,760
I know.

1772
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,840
And like, I just think there's also a lot of stories that haven't been told with different

1773
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,360
perspectives and you know, that's like something that we're going forward to.

1774
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:28,360
Yeah.

1775
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:30,640
But you know, like it also just should be normalized.

1776
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:31,640
Yeah.

1777
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,880
It should be a hundred percent normalized that everyone said it is different.

1778
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:35,880
Yeah.

1779
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,840
And if they're good for the job, then they're good for the job.

1780
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:38,840
A hundred percent.

1781
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:44,440
And it's like, it's a benefit to the world to have people telling lots of different stories.

1782
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:45,440
Yeah.

1783
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:49,600
I mean, like it's, it's one of those things that I definitely think that we're in an era

1784
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:54,440
now where more people are telling their own stories and you know, like, you know, people

1785
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:59,240
are able to speak their opinions now because people are comfortable coming out, whether

1786
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,440
you know, you're part of the queer community or whether you're part of any community.

1787
01:28:02,440 --> 01:28:07,400
It's like, you're able to tell your, you know, stories now than you were even like five,

1788
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:08,400
10 years ago.

1789
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:09,400
Yeah.

1790
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,600
The fact that, you know, stories were like even about, you know, immigrants or anything

1791
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,760
were just considered only to be on SBS and only late at night.

1792
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:18,760
Yeah.

1793
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,560
And now I'm just showing it at any point of the day.

1794
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:21,640
Yeah, a hundred percent.

1795
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:24,560
It's literally, it's not so much the industry has changed.

1796
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:25,560
Yeah.

1797
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:31,000
And I like stories where maybe that's not even the entire like plot point that someone's

1798
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,520
from a certain background or something.

1799
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,360
Like it's just part of it, you know?

1800
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:36,360
Yeah.

1801
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,960
It's just that the character has that element, but they're also a detective who's solving

1802
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:40,960
a case.

1803
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:41,960
Yeah.

1804
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:46,880
Like it doesn't have to just be that stories from diverse filmmakers got to have to like

1805
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:48,320
hit this certain demographic.

1806
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:53,400
It's like, no, like why can't that just be a part of like a deeper story?

1807
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:54,400
Yeah.

1808
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:59,240
I feel like, I feel like, you know, sometimes the best like handling of that is just, is

1809
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,440
through, you know, just understanding the people and understanding.

1810
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:08,600
Like I think one of the, the best things that I watched recently, which I think did the

1811
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:11,760
amazing Elliot Page was in, I watched Umbrella Academy season three.

1812
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:12,760
Love that show.

1813
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:13,760
Love it so much.

1814
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:14,760
Yeah.

1815
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:16,440
But it was just such a subtle scene where they were like, cool.

1816
01:29:16,440 --> 01:29:17,440
That's it.

1817
01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:18,440
I'm just gonna go with the character now.

1818
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:19,440
Cool.

1819
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:20,440
Done.

1820
01:29:20,440 --> 01:29:21,440
That's fantastic.

1821
01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:22,440
You didn't even need to make a big deal about it.

1822
01:29:22,440 --> 01:29:23,920
No, it moved on to its weird plots.

1823
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:24,920
Yeah.

1824
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:25,920
I was like, perfect.

1825
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:26,920
This is all I need.

1826
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:30,720
And I think it, it got to the point where it was just, it was all about just connecting

1827
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,480
and loving each other and stuff like that.

1828
01:29:33,480 --> 01:29:39,360
And I think, you know, shows like that that do stories like that well and don't make a

1829
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:44,480
big deal out of things that happen means that society shouldn't make big deals out of it

1830
01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:45,480
as well.

1831
01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:50,760
I find like, you know, where we do make films that we try and make big, you know, political

1832
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:57,840
statements are good, but they shouldn't be entirely like every message of every person's

1833
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:02,240
like entire lives because they should be defined by other things.

1834
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:03,240
Yes.

1835
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:04,240
Yeah.

1836
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:05,240
100%.

1837
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:09,480
It's not like you can't just bring that into then the Mission Impossible movies or something.

1838
01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:15,040
You know, like it shouldn't just be like a niche category or diverse films.

1839
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:18,960
It should just, it should just feel like life because that is what filmmaking is.

1840
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:19,960
Yeah.

1841
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:23,760
I mean, like that's what film festivals, unfortunately, are for though, which is a whole other topic

1842
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,120
and could be days for why I think those are interesting.

1843
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:31,480
But yeah, film festivals, if you want it, like the, some of the best films that do eventually

1844
01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:36,120
get into mainstream, like cinema, you know, discovered in film festivals.

1845
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:40,240
And then suddenly they do really well in mainstream as well, but everyone kind of doesn't give

1846
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:41,240
them the chance.

1847
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:45,840
And what's that, there's that terminology in Hollywood, I think, which is the scripts,

1848
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,880
which got chucked to the side and then it's like a really good scripts that they've loved,

1849
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:51,480
but they never produced.

1850
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:56,080
And then suddenly they just pick a one out of that pile and make it eventually.

1851
01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:02,200
And yeah, there's like a hundred and something ideas in this giant pile of scripts.

1852
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:05,920
And every so often they pick one out and it's, and you know, like, they're like, oh, we

1853
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:07,280
need Oscar worthy material.

1854
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:11,040
Here's another script that we've got off this pile that is being written by a dead person,

1855
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:12,640
like 50, 60 years ago.

1856
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:13,640
Yes.

1857
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:14,640
They do it all the time.

1858
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:15,640
Yeah.

1859
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:16,640
That's super interesting.

1860
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:19,280
It's like, what a shame they weren't alive to see it.

1861
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:20,280
Yeah.

1862
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:25,800
Like, but I don't like, I don't like giving my money at the cinema to like Marvel or like,

1863
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:30,440
I don't have a huge issue with it, but it's just like, it's formula.

1864
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:31,440
Controversial.

1865
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:32,440
Yeah.

1866
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:35,240
I just, I don't like the sense of humor of Marvel.

1867
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:38,600
That's the part that kills me ironically, but it's just like, it's all spectacle.

1868
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,600
It's all formula to me.

1869
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:45,680
And as I said before, I'm not a real genre person anyway, but I like to just, I like

1870
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:50,960
to go out and support and give money to projects that have a really interesting voice and like

1871
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:56,640
telling a story that I've never thought of before or sharing a perspective from someone

1872
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:01,080
who maybe like 20 years ago wouldn't have been able to make that film, but in this day

1873
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:03,840
and age they can.

1874
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,520
And you know, sometimes I'll seek out films that are so old now that like sometimes I

1875
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:13,200
recently we were just gaslight and that's a great film.

1876
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:14,560
Nineteen forty four.

1877
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:15,560
Yeah.

1878
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:19,680
And like I know all of the Hitchcock, even though I think Hitchcock's an asshole of a

1879
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,400
director, his films are great.

1880
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:22,400
Yeah.

1881
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:26,200
But you know, like I think the interesting thing, and this is the reflection I have a

1882
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:31,040
bit about cancel culture and, and reflecting on films that have people like Kevin Spacey

1883
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,840
and have been produced by people like Harvey Weinstein and everything, that I don't hate

1884
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,200
necessarily the film.

1885
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:38,960
I don't hate the films that they're a part of.

1886
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:43,640
It does taint the performance and it's a hard thing, but I don't hate the product that was

1887
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:44,640
made.

1888
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:45,640
Yeah.

1889
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:46,640
How are you on that?

1890
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:47,640
Do you struggle a little bit with those things?

1891
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:48,640
I find it really complicated.

1892
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:49,640
Yeah.

1893
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:50,640
Yeah.

1894
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,840
It's I mean, yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of cancel culture just because I don't know

1895
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,680
if it offers opportunity to learn and keep talking about it.

1896
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:58,680
Yeah.

1897
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:03,800
It's really easy for people to just say straight off like, oh no, like that's over.

1898
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:05,240
That's the end.

1899
01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:09,840
And then yeah, you don't actually get that opportunity to say, okay, what went wrong?

1900
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:14,120
Like what was the system that allowed this to happen?

1901
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:15,560
So yeah.

1902
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:19,600
And then when, yeah, when they've been part of a piece of work and that's been canceled,

1903
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:24,880
it's yeah, I do find that complicated as well because it's almost like those films sometimes

1904
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:31,400
can act as a time bubble as well, like a space culture because they did happen and I don't

1905
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:35,400
think they should necessarily necessarily be entirely thrown away, but I think it's

1906
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:36,400
good to go.

1907
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:37,400
Okay.

1908
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:39,160
I'm so glad we're not doing that anymore.

1909
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:40,160
Yeah.

1910
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:45,240
It's it's and you know, like films that aren't that whole kind of like still do it.

1911
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:46,240
Absolutely.

1912
01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:52,080
And you know, and I think it's like you kind of instigate with everything you do and every

1913
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:58,600
and I think this is the constant reminder I have as a filmmaker is something I do now

1914
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:04,320
might necessarily become controversial later without intending it to be because times change

1915
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:05,320
true.

1916
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:06,320
Yeah.

1917
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,320
And it's unfortunately, whatever we do will be imprinted in something.

1918
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:10,320
Yeah.

1919
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:11,920
And you get judged based on that.

1920
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:12,920
Yeah.

1921
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:17,640
And it can be misconstrued as well because sometimes you weren't trying to say something,

1922
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:19,000
but that's how people took it.

1923
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:20,000
Yeah.

1924
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,280
Because sometimes like, yeah, I know a lot of filmmakers who like, like to kind of play

1925
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:26,480
with the contentious topic, but they're not giving an opinion.

1926
01:34:26,480 --> 01:34:28,840
They're just like, this is super interesting.

1927
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:30,400
They're like his surface level.

1928
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:31,400
Yeah.

1929
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:37,440
Like I know people who follow around to make documentary work around like neo Nazi groups.

1930
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:40,640
And it's like, they just find those people super interesting.

1931
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:45,720
But that's like, it's controversial because it's like, are you giving a voice to people

1932
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,240
who, who's messages hate?

1933
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:50,720
So yeah, it's complicated.

1934
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:55,880
But I think almost if you do it in the right way, deliver it in the right way and not giving

1935
01:34:55,880 --> 01:35:01,680
those Crips money based on this project, like it's better for the world to see what's happening

1936
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:05,600
rather than to just pretend that that doesn't exist.

1937
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:06,600
Yeah.

1938
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:10,760
I think like that's what was interesting in like the Trump election that like a lot of

1939
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:16,200
people didn't feel able to say they were going to like vote for Trump.

1940
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:18,840
So the election result came as a big surprise.

1941
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:19,840
Yeah.

1942
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:25,280
Because I think that like cancel culture sometimes just pushes people's opinions out and makes

1943
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,400
people feel like they can't say what they think.

1944
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:29,840
And then you get a surprise like that.

1945
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:30,840
Yeah.

1946
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,480
It's almost worse not to know what, you know, people are expressing.

1947
01:35:34,480 --> 01:35:35,480
Yeah.

1948
01:35:35,480 --> 01:35:40,280
And I feel like, and I feel like it's kind of just, you know, it's, it's potentially,

1949
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:43,760
well, I probably am terrible at not voicing my opinions and things.

1950
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:44,760
Yeah.

1951
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,840
But I mean, like, you know, it does lead into trouble.

1952
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:48,840
It does.

1953
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:54,560
And that's kind of the thing of when you're passionate or you're like active about something

1954
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:59,480
that you believe in, people might not always see eye to eye or they misconstrued or they

1955
01:35:59,480 --> 01:36:02,440
change something or everything's word of mouth.

1956
01:36:02,440 --> 01:36:03,440
Yeah.

1957
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:05,720
And it goes back to that, like, how sellable are you?

1958
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:06,720
Yeah.

1959
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:07,720
Everything is word of mouth.

1960
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:12,360
If you've upset the wrong person on an off day, like that's so weird.

1961
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:14,160
It's such a weird kind of finite.

1962
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:15,160
Yeah.

1963
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:19,560
I think people like misconstrued a lot of like what people think into a certain opinion.

1964
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:20,560
Yeah.

1965
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:23,840
I think when I was younger, I was actually very black and white about the world.

1966
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:25,400
Like they're a terrible person.

1967
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:30,360
We should just not talk to them or listen to what their ideas are at all.

1968
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,880
And I think as I've gotten older, I've seen the world in more of a gray way.

1969
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:38,280
And I think that that's, I think it's better to do that because even if someone has a different

1970
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:43,000
opinion, it's you're better off to actually get to understand what they think.

1971
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:44,000
Yeah.

1972
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,600
And yeah, like I've gotten into arguments with people like, Oh no, you, you're saying

1973
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:48,600
that thing.

1974
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:52,600
So immediately you're homophobic or like you're racist and then not.

1975
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:57,800
I mean, it was a contentious thing, but it's like, sometimes they just like, or ask a question

1976
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:59,920
and they're, they don't know.

1977
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:01,920
And it's like, it's not helpful just to be like, shut up.

1978
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:02,920
You're wrong.

1979
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:06,440
Like sometimes it's more helpful to actually talk to them and go, why is it that you think

1980
01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:07,440
that way?

1981
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:08,440
Yeah.

1982
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:09,440
Yeah.

1983
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:12,000
I've become, I've become less black and white and much more gray as I get older because

1984
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:16,280
I just, I'm more interested in seeing why people have the opinions that they have.

1985
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:20,160
Even when I think they're really wrong.

1986
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:25,080
I mean, and that, and that's the thing it's, you know, you, you learn by asking questions

1987
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:28,160
and people learn by answering and asking more questions.

1988
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:30,120
It's the whole back and forth.

1989
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:35,480
Um, the world is full of various opinions and none of them are, not all of them necessarily

1990
01:37:35,480 --> 01:37:36,480
right.

1991
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:41,640
Um, but there is no dumb, um, there was no dumb question.

1992
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:43,240
There are only dumb answers.

1993
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:44,240
Yeah.

1994
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:47,680
And I remember saying that to someone and they were like, Oh, that's not true.

1995
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:48,680
You can ask dumb questions.

1996
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:52,040
I was like, no, no question is dumb because if you don't know something, ask it.

1997
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:53,040
Yeah.

1998
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,000
But people are afraid in this society to ask questions.

1999
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:56,000
Absolutely.

2000
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:57,720
And I think it's the, I think that's dumb.

2001
01:37:57,720 --> 01:37:58,720
Yeah.

2002
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:01,760
I think that is the stupidest thing as you can be afraid to ask.

2003
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:02,760
Yeah.

2004
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:08,160
Um, yeah, I find actually like that slightly different topic, but like as a director, people

2005
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:12,720
expect you to always know the answer to something and have a really strong opinion.

2006
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:18,640
And I think like there is a movement of change where directors are more like, I'm not sure

2007
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:19,640
actually.

2008
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:20,640
Let's think about that.

2009
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:23,240
Or like, um, Oh, what do you think?

2010
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:24,240
Yeah.

2011
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,000
And I, I like that change that's happening.

2012
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:31,440
And I think it's just a whole societal thing of like, yeah, like I was listening to a master

2013
01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:38,600
class thing the other day, um, with Hans Zimmer and he's talking about working with directors

2014
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:45,680
and he just kept saying when he does this, when he comes in and it was never like they

2015
01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:49,400
were like, or ever she or like anything else, it was always he.

2016
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:57,080
And um, I, I thought that that's quite interesting that like, that was just the perception.

2017
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:01,480
And I think there was this perception of like male directors who are auteurs like Alfred

2018
01:39:01,480 --> 01:39:04,840
Hitchcock or something who'd come in and go, it's this and it's this and put that there

2019
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:06,080
and do that.

2020
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:08,080
And I don't, I don't like to direct like that actually.

2021
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,480
Like I prefer to be like, okay, what do you think?

2022
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:11,480
Yep.

2023
01:39:11,480 --> 01:39:12,480
Thank you.

2024
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:16,560
I don't want to make a decision now because I have to, but I do respect like listening

2025
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:20,680
to other people's points of view and I'm not just going to be like, do it now.

2026
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:22,480
Like it's going to be like, would you mind?

2027
01:39:22,480 --> 01:39:23,480
Yeah.

2028
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:25,560
It's always like, how, how will this benefit?

2029
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:27,480
How would you mind doing this?

2030
01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:28,480
Yeah.

2031
01:39:28,480 --> 01:39:29,480
Like,

2032
01:39:29,480 --> 01:39:34,240
I like working with creatives in a way where, um, they're on board with something.

2033
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:38,280
Like, as I said before, with actors, like having them feel like it was their idea.

2034
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,360
It's not to like trick them in any way.

2035
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:44,600
It's just when everyone's on board and on the same page, it's like something magic happens.

2036
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:49,120
And I don't like to work with a Wayne with like cinematographers or something where I'm

2037
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:51,000
like, no, no, I just don't think that's right.

2038
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:52,000
We're going to do it this way.

2039
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:55,760
I'm like, okay, I'm really seeing it really differently.

2040
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:57,960
Why is it that you think we should do it that other way?

2041
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:58,960
Yeah.

2042
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:01,640
Then you might learn something and you might still end up going with what you thought in

2043
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,840
the first place, but you've gotten like this whole different perspective on something.

2044
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:11,520
And that's always a learning curve and I'm learning and I always try and, you know, like

2045
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:18,160
people challenging me because you know, my vision in here might not always be the correct

2046
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:19,160
one.

2047
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:20,160
Yeah.

2048
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:25,960
And that's the thing you get challenged and people shouldn't be afraid to challenge anything

2049
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:26,960
that they're asked.

2050
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:29,840
Cause there's no wrong way of trying something.

2051
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:30,840
Exactly.

2052
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:36,560
And I think like it actually is a movement of change that people are not, they don't

2053
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:42,200
feel like they always have to be, they don't always have to know all the answers.

2054
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:44,560
Like they don't have to lead with fear.

2055
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:45,560
They can lead with love.

2056
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:51,680
Like it's like so hippie, but like I do think it is a changing movement in film and it's

2057
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:52,680
a welcome one.

2058
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:54,120
I 100% agree with that.

2059
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:56,600
I wholeheartedly agree with that.

2060
01:40:56,600 --> 01:40:59,440
I'm going to use that also as the perfect time to wrap us up.

2061
01:40:59,440 --> 01:41:01,080
Okay, end with love.

2062
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:02,080
End with love.

2063
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,240
It is the best thing.

2064
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:06,240
Can I just say I've loved every second of this though.

2065
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:07,240
Oh, thank you.

2066
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:08,720
It's been amazing talking to you.

2067
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:10,080
It's been amazing talking to you.

2068
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:12,880
Now Holly, where can people stalk you on the internet?

2069
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,480
Where can they find your...

2070
01:41:15,480 --> 01:41:17,160
I'm not a real social person.

2071
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:22,120
Like I've always felt like I don't really like, I've always been like, oh no, that's

2072
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:23,120
like tacky.

2073
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:24,120
I can't do that.

2074
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:25,120
But I don't know.

2075
01:41:25,120 --> 01:41:34,160
I've got like IMTP or LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, but I don't post on Instagram enough.

2076
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:36,360
But yeah, I mean, find me, message me.

2077
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:41,120
I'm always happy to chat and talk about projects and yeah, it's what I love to do.

2078
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:43,800
And if it's a project that I love, I'm all in.

2079
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:44,800
Cool.

2080
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:45,800
There you go.

2081
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:46,800
You've heard it first.

2082
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:47,800
It's great.

2083
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,800
Yeah, well then I'll be like, oh, I'm actually busy.

2084
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:51,800
Sorry.

2085
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:52,800
Yeah, don't worry.

2086
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,880
It took us like six months to lock this day.

2087
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:56,880
Yeah.

2088
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,080
I do overcreate my life these days.

2089
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:00,080
It's not personal.

2090
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:01,080
It's just time.

2091
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:02,080
No, I know.

2092
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:03,080
I know.

2093
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:04,080
It's sheer love.

2094
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:05,080
I mean, just how many...

2095
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:06,080
We've been organized since like November last year.

2096
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:07,080
And I just feel like, man, we're both hectic.

2097
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:08,080
But no, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you and thank you so much for joining.

2098
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:09,080
Thank you.

2099
01:42:09,080 --> 01:42:10,080
Talk soon.

2100
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:11,080
And if you want to go and listen to more episodes of The Things We Do, you can check them out

2101
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:12,080
on Apple and Spotify.

2102
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:13,080
I'll be speaking to you there.

2103
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:14,080
I'll be speaking to you there.

2104
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:15,080
I'll be speaking to you there.

2105
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:16,080
I'll be speaking to you there.

2106
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:17,080
I'll be speaking to you there.

2107
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:25,360
I'll be speaking to you there.