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This is The Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental

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health and all that fun jazzy stuff.

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Today I've got my special guest and friend, Rain Sullivan.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Thank you for having me.

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Thank you for coming on.

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Now, Rain, first question, first and foremost question.

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I'm going to get you to tell the internet, the wonderful ears, the wonderful eyes open

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to the whole world.

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The eyes, I think mostly ears, the wonderful ears to the world, who you are and what you

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do.

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I'm Rain and I write sci-fi, fantasy, novels and short stories.

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Yep.

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That's your whole...

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That's my whole thing.

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I mean, I love that short brief.

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Where did it start?

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Where did it manifest for you?

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I've had the idea to write mostly fantasy and then it kind of evolved into sci-fi since

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I was 17.

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I got really into reading and wanted to create stories and they were just starting to like

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come alive in my head.

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I suppressed that for a really long time.

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Went to school for pre-med and kind of followed that track for a while until I just kind of

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cracked and had to write this story down.

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I had one story that was just kind of rolling around in the back of my head and I was like,

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I have to give it at least like a solid try.

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I have to get it on the page.

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There's a lot of fighting that still between what you should be doing versus what you want

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to be doing.

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Eventually, after some family drama stuff, I was like, you know what?

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Life's too short.

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I'm diving in.

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I think 2019, I started writing my first novel and I finished it in about a year and then

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now I've got five that I'm juggling and I'm editing them and bouncing back and forth between

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writing books and submitting short stories and all that jazz to hopefully get published

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and all that.

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Oh my God.

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So you just went, I'm going to quit med and become a writer.

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Yeah.

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One that's more profitable.

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I had these ideas of what it was going to be like to maybe be a doctor.

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I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do and I worked in a hospital.

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It was okay.

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In short, I just didn't feel like anything I did really mattered and there's no passion

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to do that work.

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I worked in physical therapy a little bit and I liked that better working with people

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a little bit more because when I worked in a hospital prior to, I was working mostly

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in a lab.

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I was centrifuging blood samples.

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Not working with patients.

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Fresh out of college, you get to spin blood.

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I had two passings in the family and it was just like, what am I doing?

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Doing all these things that I don't care about really.

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It broke my heart a little bit that those two people wouldn't get to see these stories

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that I had.

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If I am going to write them, I already have two people on my list who won't get to read

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them.

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I don't want that list to get longer and I don't want to sound so morbid but be on that

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list.

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I don't want to live my life and not have given these stories a shot.

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That came out as something very macabre and then made it really quite nice.

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There is a theme in my writing that pops up a lot with learning to live with loss and

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finding that balance between letting go and never, ever letting go that has shown up not

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in every story but at least in every novel.

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It's always in the background a little bit.

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I think they are very tied.

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Like grief and everything.

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That's really interesting to explore as well as human beings because we go into this ideology

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when you look at it through a medical lens that's very clinical.

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Human life is A to B and then we die and just the next stage keeps rolling.

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It's interesting that you talk about almost legacy and storytelling and all that because

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did you feel as a kid that you were like I needed to leave an imprint or a legacy on

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things?

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I think so.

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Even when I was younger and in high school, I had all these dreams that were not the dreams

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I told people.

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Especially if I had a math science brain.

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I did really well in those kinds of classes and not actually in English.

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It was funny because I had this pull to go into something creative.

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From the get go, I wanted to do theater.

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I told some of my closest friends I want to be a director.

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I had all these ideas about telling stories in some way, shape, or form.

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And choreography.

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I was a gymnast for a long time and I would choreograph all my friends' routines.

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Just liked creating stuff.

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But the thing I would tell people is I'm good at math and science so I'm probably going

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to study math and science and go that path.

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My dad was in the science field so it made sense.

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That was the smart choice.

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I don't know where I was going with that.

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I kind of just lost it.

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No, I like it.

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Did you feel like it was just the thing you needed to do?

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Go into that work style and everything?

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When I started writing?

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No.

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With your dad being in the science field, was it just felt like you needed to be in

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some sort of scientific or medicinal capacity?

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Yeah, I think there was a combination of things going on.

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One, that's what I kind of had a knack for.

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So when you're not doing great in certain classes and you're doing really well in others,

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you're like, oh well, screw the classes that I suck at and I'm killing it with math and

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chemistry and that kind of stuff.

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So clearly that's the direction that makes more sense for me.

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There's a little bit of that.

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My dad was one of seven, so pick the smart career and if you get a degree in chemistry

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or something along those lines, you're going to be able to make a career out of that.

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Whereas if you get a degree in creative writing, good luck.

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So there's a little bit of definitely push.

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But then also, sorry, we're going in a real morbid direction, but both my parents got

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brain cancer about a year apart from each other.

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And so my mom got it when I was in high school.

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Hers was operable.

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On the day of my high school graduation, she got surgery and it was removed.

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There's been some funky glitches with movement of one of her hands, but otherwise she's great,

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recovered wonderfully.

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Ten months later, I was in college and my dad gets brain cancer and it's inoperable.

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So it's a very different beast, chemo radiation track.

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And so I think that also was part of the push to OC, I'm meant to be a doctor, I'm meant

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to be a doctor, do the doctor thing, do the doctor thing.

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It never really made me happy, but you get a lot of praise for landing in that box.

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So it's a really comfortable box to sit in, especially if you aren't flunking those classes.

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So you're like, it's coming from all directions, what you should be doing, what people kind

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of expect.

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And then you get praise from your friends' parents, your friends who are going into fashion

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design, they're like, oh God.

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You're the kid who's going to be the doctor, which didn't happen, by the way.

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I mean, that's also like, it goes from one giant shift, doesn't it?

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Because I think when people go into medicine or when they go into it, it's normally like

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a savior complex.

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And I think it didn't sound like that from your perspective, it was just something you

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were good at.

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And then you were just like, everyone just wants you to stay in that box rather than

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you feeling like that box actually suits you.

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Yeah.

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It was like the savior complex was there.

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Like I was expecting it, I wanted to feel that way really badly.

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I kept waiting to be like, see, if I do these things, I could literally be tackling the

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issue that attacked my family, right?

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Like there's kind of this almost, it feels like there should be this full circle moment

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there and it just wasn't connecting.

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It's like no matter what I do, this circle is not coming full circle, it just wasn't

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happening.

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I just was so emotionally and mentally drained when I worked at the hospital.

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I hated it, absolutely hated it.

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And then even when I pivoted to working more like environmental science and then working

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in physical therapy, it was like these pivots are better, but they're still not right.

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All I can think about are these stories.

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And I think that that's actually what completed the story, or sorry, the circle.

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There's a lot of metaphors going on right now.

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I mean, look, it's interesting because this isn't the best stories built out of tragedy

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or like some sort of real life grief.

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I mean, for me, that's how this story came up because I mean, the story that I'm working

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on now, even putting final touches on and hope to query very soon, it's based all on

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that.

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You're finding out your dad has cancer and I mean, it has a different twist because it's

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not real life.

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And I have dream portals, which means you have access to different worlds and you could

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have, in theory, find cures.

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And that's the whole basis for that story.

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And that's what I mean by coming full circle.

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I just wrote this different kind of conclusion because I don't think 19 year old me could

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handle it.

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So I don't know, it's almost like I needed to work stuff out for myself in order to be

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able to help.

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I feel like, and I hope that this story will help other people who are going through it.

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And I've had a couple of readers who, you know, different versions, same story of my

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mom's going through cancer treatment now and this story really resonated with me and stuff

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like that.

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So I think it did come full circle and it's just in a very, very different way.

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I love that though.

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It's like you're helping people through other means rather than it being through the mean

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that initially everyone expected you to help them.

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It's come through like a completely different narrative almost because yeah, like I always

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think that especially with parents and the people that bring you up in this world whenever

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that like something breaks in them or something goes wrong, you're like automatic, like ideology

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is like to freak out and you know, be like, well, the person who is meant to be immortal

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and live forever is now suddenly not going to be able to do that.

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They're going to have to go through like treatment and everything or they might pass away.

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And you know, like I think it's more common than not to have, you know, like for people

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lose parents, you know, and I think that's kind of the realization.

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It's like how lucky some people are to still have them around and then like versus others.

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And I think like particularly people, we don't talk about grief and like especially when

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it's like parents because we talk about extended like family members, like grandparents and

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you know, aunts and uncles and all that.

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But when it comes to our own immediate family and struggling with like how like, you know,

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dysfunctional that is or like how like unstable I can be, I think that's the thing that, you

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know, we translate grief into just windshields blocked, everything's fine, rose colored glasses.

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Like do you think that now, you know, being the age that you are, do you think you have

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much more like, you know, I want to say clinical view of grief due to writing or is it very

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much like, are still very emotional?

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It's definitely become a little more clinical, you know, to use that word.

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Yeah, because when I started writing, I was, you know, 24 now I'm 29 and I'm on draft

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12 of this story.

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I pray to God it is the end.

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And it's so different because in that first draft, which to any writers out there, just

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let your first draft be a messy hodgepodge because you're going to learn so much by getting

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all those ideas out on paper.

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But it is messy.

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And when I go back and I look at it and I'm like, I was still not not that you're ever

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done dealing with grief, but I was in the thick of it because I at 19 when I lost my

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dad, I shut down, like I just turned off the emotion as much as I could and plowed ahead,

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like okay, keep going, keep marching along.

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And clearly when I was 24, it's when I lost my grandfather.

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And then that was that was kind of the push.

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That was that like tipping point.

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And I could just see it like all it all poured out.

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And now that I've been playing with this story on and off, you know, other stories, whatnot,

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for five years, it's like, I can see the growth and the development and the under like the

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understanding of grief, because there's definitely you're playing this tug of war so much when

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you lose people of like, should I be letting them go?

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Should I not like I don't want to let go?

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Oh, God, it feels awful to let go.

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Right.

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Like when you're six months out and you're having a great time, suddenly feel guilty

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for enjoying your own life.

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Right.

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And so you're constantly on this like little tug of war.

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And at some point, you realize like it's not there's you're not going to pick one end of

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that that spectrum.

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You're going to you got to get comfortable being uncomfortable somewhere in the middle.

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And you're going to tip a little from the middle, left or right, you know, depending

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on the day.

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And then but you're never going to it's not it's not fixed.

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Yeah, it's just you grow, you evolve.

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And now that's part of you.

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And so I do think that's what kind of happened.

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And now it's fun because I get to write it.

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You know, my main character is 21 and losing her father.

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And I get to write it with this.

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OK, I know, you know, from like a 29 year old and I've dealt with this to some degree.

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Right.

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00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,160
Like I said, you're never really done.

236
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:52,560
But I've like stepped back and I can look at my character and plop them back into what

237
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,440
it is to be that technically still a kid brain.

238
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,440
Right.

239
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,760
Like you're 21, you're not developed mentally and you're dealing with these big, scary thoughts.

240
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,280
Like you said, like you just you don't think about losing a parent until it starts to happen.

241
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,360
Right.

242
00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:11,320
And definitely being able to step back and now write it.

243
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:18,160
And I can write that character like very raw without it necessarily touching my own hurt,

244
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,160
my own grief.

245
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,000
Now, it's like this like separation of self from from story.

246
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,000
Yeah.

247
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,640
Which I think is always like an interesting factor because, you know, when you can step

248
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:35,640
back from your own personal grief and then sort of like projected into a character and

249
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,960
make them have their own version of like coping mechanisms and everything.

250
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:46,960
And I think it's also like the concept of like, you know, we're in an era where mental

251
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:47,960
health is so much better.

252
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,060
And, you know, we're still working on a lot of people like working on things that we never

253
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:53,240
talked about as kids.

254
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,320
Like, you know, there wasn't conversation flying around being like, how are you doing?

255
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,120
Like, you know, a lot of it was just like, you know, like the clinical they're gone now

256
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,160
or, you know, everything like that.

257
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,440
Or they're in a better place or, you know, like and, you know, like things like that

258
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,200
I get from a kid's perspective because you want to like not alienate them.

259
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,800
You want to make them happy.

260
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:20,760
But, you know, as an adult, it's just it's just fucking annoying.

261
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,680
The worst one is it'll get better with time.

262
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,680
Yeah.

263
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:26,680
Yeah.

264
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,680
Thank you, Susan.

265
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,680
Will it?

266
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,520
It doesn't feel like it right now, but you're logically, you know, you know, it will.

267
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,280
Oh, I think it's also like, you know, how, how do we sort of cope with grief?

268
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,280
How do we cope with anything?

269
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,280
And I think a lot of the time we shut down, like, you know, a lot of the coping mechanism

270
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,240
is to not feel and to push through.

271
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:54,920
And I remember, like, I think, I don't know if this was like your childhood, but you know,

272
00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:02,020
like particularly when family members would pass away, like I would just suddenly go into

273
00:19:02,020 --> 00:19:03,520
making sure everyone else is okay.

274
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,720
Like, you know, I would just be the one because everyone else is crying around me and I'm

275
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:12,480
like, oh, I got to, I got to do the managing of everyone else because I don't, they're

276
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,880
all going to fall apart.

277
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:19,400
And so there was a little bit of Saviour Complex that developed in my youth based on that,

278
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,680
which didn't really help as I got into adult years.

279
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,280
Like, you know, because that becomes like, just if people have problems, you help them,

280
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,280
you try and fix them for them.

281
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:36,040
And I think like it was something very interesting that one of my therapists said, which was,

282
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,840
you know, you just can't, like there's so many things, like, as we talk about grief,

283
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,400
that you can't really fix.

284
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,720
Like you've got this long echo chamber of like grief that clings onto you.

285
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:54,360
And it's just about coping every day because our lives don't really, you never stop grieving.

286
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,000
Like you never stop missing someone or you know, missing a pet, missing a person.

287
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,720
Like, you never really stop.

288
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,280
But it just, it does lessen because it goes into the back of your head rather than it

289
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,640
being the forefront of your mind, unless you're constantly bringing it to it.

290
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:17,760
But you know, like I remember a few years ago, my dad was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis,

291
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,400
which basically means eventually, like he was like, I know this is the thing that's

292
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,400
going to get me in the end.

293
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,480
Like it's going to be the thing that kills me.

294
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,880
And he was very calm about it.

295
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,640
Like he, man, he's very happy still, like very calm, but he's just like, and every time

296
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,080
I hear him cough, I'm like, oh God, that's the cough of death.

297
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,960
Like, you know, that's the thing that's going to eventually get him.

298
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,960
And like he's 68 now.

299
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,960
So I'm like, I'm also sort of like partially grateful that I've had such a long life with

300
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,780
him because I'm like, I know people who obviously didn't have that.

301
00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:57,160
And so there's always a sort of thing of being grateful because when that moment happens,

302
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,480
and for someone who grew up, growing up, he did not cope well with death.

303
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,000
He, knowing his own mortality is he just went, yep, I'm going to do life.

304
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,300
Like there's nothing really going to stop me.

305
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:16,760
And I think it was sort of like such a surprising role model to expect out of like someone who

306
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,880
can't deal with grief very well, because it was like, and it sort of made my mum kind

307
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,400
of go into this other form where she's more worried about him than he's worried about

308
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,400
himself.

309
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,680
Like he's just like, as long as I'm happy and I get to see, you know, my grandchildren

310
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,880
and I get to have a lot, you know, like have these little milestones that he's really thinking

311
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,520
about little milestones rather than big long milestones now.

312
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:45,760
I think that makes him like it a little bit easier if his health starts to decline.

313
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:52,280
But you know, it is a thing because like, I don't know, a lot of my family members,

314
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,520
when they did pass away, there was like five years of just decline in health.

315
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,960
And it just felt long and dragged out.

316
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,320
Like my gran was the same.

317
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,360
She was four years before she passed away.

318
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:05,880
It was dragged health problems.

319
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,520
And my aunt was like four or five years of just like being in and out of hospital.

320
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,960
And I was like, you know, I sort of am grateful that my dad's not to that point yet.

321
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,920
But having friends who are already like at our age getting diagnosed with cancer, getting

322
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:27,360
diagnosed with a bunch of different things, I'm also hyper aware that I'm like, life can

323
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:28,640
just go.

324
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:36,200
Like you are not like we are not tethered to this world very quick, like for very long.

325
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:42,200
Yeah, I think I think that with with both my parents getting sick in different ways

326
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,960
so quick, like one, two, that it's just like that sort of like focus the lens a little

327
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,680
bit on that.

328
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,520
And then my grandfather was a few years later.

329
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,800
And something about that too, right?

330
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,960
You have your grandparents outliving your own parents and just like this things like

331
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,680
snapped into focus.

332
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,720
But like, it doesn't matter if it makes me enough money.

333
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,080
It doesn't matter if I make it, you know, all this kind of all those big scary thoughts

334
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,000
that, you know, at 21 or 22 felt so crippling.

335
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,200
Like I just have to live life and do the things that bring me joy and make me feel like, like,

336
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,000
oh, yeah, this is what it this is why I'm here.

337
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,440
I feel like I lost the thread.

338
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,440
No, I love that.

339
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,440
I love it.

340
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,440
No, I just I really agree with you.

341
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,000
I think that's like the thing that happened to me.

342
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,640
It was like, you know, knowing my dad, you know, and especially when my aunt passed away,

343
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,640
I was like, well, these are the things that make them proud.

344
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,200
They didn't want me to have like careers that would just pay heaps.

345
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,740
Like they wanted me to do the things that I loved.

346
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:49,560
So I'd rather do those.

347
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,100
And you know, I think that was a massive discussion.

348
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:59,240
And it's why I quit full time work like, you know, it's it's good like to live, live the

349
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,700
life that you want to live and not sort of dictate it through, you know, especially when

350
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:06,320
you lose people that you care about.

351
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,040
You're like, OK, well, how would they want to see me happy?

352
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:15,320
Are they did they die knowing I was happy or did they die seeing the version of me which

353
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,080
isn't happy doing this thing repetitively?

354
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,360
And you know, do I want to spend a hundred hours a week doing the thing that I actually

355
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,360
love?

356
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:27,360
Oh, yeah.

357
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:34,560
And I think it's funny because, you know, my dad was so he's he's kind of a goofball,

358
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,520
but but was so in his mind, you know, I think honestly being one of seven and with a single

359
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:48,400
mom, he was so follow the track that's going to guarantee you like the income, the security,

360
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:56,400
the good job, because I think he's he lived so close to that line of not being able to

361
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,120
support himself.

362
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,440
And you know, he was on the on that path.

363
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,440
Right.

364
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:08,680
He went to college, did all the things, checked all the boxes and brought himself out of poverty.

365
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,960
And so I think there was a little bit of don't risk it all now.

366
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,200
Like, you know, you're very lucky to I was, you know, not on the poverty line.

367
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,160
You know, growing up where he was.

368
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,320
And so I think there was a little bit of that push.

369
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:31,960
And then at the same time, I did I did athletics and sports and stuff growing up.

370
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:38,460
Like my dad was so happy when I was happy after, you know, gymnastics practice.

371
00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:41,320
And he'd always be like, how was gymnastics today?

372
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,040
And I would go on and on and on in the car about what I got to do that day.

373
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,680
You know, we did flips into the pit and whatnot.

374
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,600
And so like my dad was, I think, honestly, the most happy when we were happy.

375
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,440
And then there's this fear because which parents have for their kids, you know, they want them

376
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,760
to do well and survive well.

377
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,720
This fear that if I went the wrong direction, I would struggle.

378
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,720
Right.

379
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,480
So I get that, too.

380
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,600
And I think there's I definitely offer him a lot of grace with that because because

381
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,200
I get it.

382
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,040
You want to you want to keep your kids safe.

383
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,080
You want them to go on a path that you think makes more sense.

384
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,080
Right.

385
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,760
But at the end of the day, I think he would have wanted me to be happy.

386
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,440
And I don't know.

387
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,080
I like I don't believe in much.

388
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:39,920
I don't believe in all the like above above the world place and below the world place.

389
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,440
But I there's this part of me that's like, I kind of feel like people aren't ever really

390
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,440
gone.

391
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,440
No.

392
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:56,600
You know, and I'm like, I hope in some weird, quirky, nonphysical way, my dad can read my

393
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,600
book.

394
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,240
And I think he would really enjoy it.

395
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,600
I love that.

396
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,800
I think it's like I love that theory because, you know, you've got like the idea that we're

397
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:11,760
energy and you know, like whether you're religious or not, like out there listening.

398
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:18,040
But I do like the idea that we are energy like forming and like, you know, we're made

399
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:23,480
of electrons and you know, all these things that you know, and billions of microorganisms

400
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,360
that run through our skin.

401
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,720
And if you get rid of them, a lot of it, you will die.

402
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,920
Like they make you very healthy.

403
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,520
They're good.

404
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,120
And it's amazing, like, you know, then there's sort of like this ideology that people get

405
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:38,120
scared of that.

406
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:41,800
And I'm like, no, these are good, like microorganisms because they help keep you alive.

407
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,320
They keep your blood normal.

408
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,000
They're just living on you.

409
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000
And that's very normal.

410
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,380
Like, you know, we are a giant planet to them.

411
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:54,680
But it is also interesting because once we're in the ground, like the body crumbles, the

412
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:02,560
only thing that's left is bones and some material depending on how it degrades.

413
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:03,560
And that's it.

414
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:11,640
Like, you know, and I think the idea that energy, you know, we're given back to in some

415
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,880
form and it goes elsewhere.

416
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,640
And you know, I always like to imagine that, you know, like my family is still, you know,

417
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,640
watching over.

418
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,640
I don't ever think it's the pearly gates.

419
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:20,640
I love the idea.

420
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,300
Yeah, I love the idea of pearly gates more for a storytelling perspective than actually

421
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:30,360
a real life because I would just hate to go to a place with pearly gates.

422
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,720
I was just like, this is not...

423
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:33,720
Here's your wings.

424
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:34,720
Yeah, I don't want wings.

425
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,480
I want like little like bat wings.

426
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,560
Like that's how I'm like, but I don't want to go to hell.

427
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,560
Like there's a choice.

428
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,360
Yeah, yeah, do you want the scaly wings or the little feathery ones?

429
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:47,360
Yeah.

430
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,960
Well, it's like reading like Dante's Inferno of like the many stages of hell.

431
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,280
And I'm like, no, I don't want wings.

432
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,480
Count me out.

433
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:03,480
But I do think like, you know, writing stories about, you know, human beings, especially

434
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,160
in like fantasy and like sci-fi and sort of like all these like different genres.

435
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,040
Isn't that like, it's kind of like the bee's knees, isn't it?

436
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,960
It's the weird like, why?

437
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,640
Because you're a very nerdy person.

438
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,240
Like, you know, like, was that always the case?

439
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,560
Like, you know, were you always like attracted to really nerdy things growing up?

440
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,280
I definitely found kind of safety in some of the nerdy things.

441
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,920
Like math is dependable.

442
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:33,920
Science is dependable.

443
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,960
But I did just love like, I'm kind of a nature kid.

444
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,160
I love to run around outside.

445
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,640
We'd go camping a lot.

446
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,760
Climb trees barefoot, you know, that whole thing.

447
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,720
My name is literally Rain.

448
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:55,960
And so I think kind of leaning into that, but I definitely got, I mean, like I said,

449
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,680
the whole like one of the story that I'm working on right now, the concept behind it is that

450
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,520
there's like multiple dimensions.

451
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:10,840
And there is in between the dimensions, there is yet another dimension, the dream dimension.

452
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,240
So certain people can access it.

453
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,840
And there's other ways other people can get other people to access it.

454
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,160
But it's a in the book, I literally call it a nearly non physical space.

455
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,040
And there's like a meeting of the minds in this space.

456
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:34,200
And so though we have this character who's like hopping between worlds in hopes of finding

457
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:40,840
a cure for her father, it's a hereditary trait to be able to access the stream dimension.

458
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:47,360
And so you get to explore that funky little blip in science, right?

459
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,920
Because you can be sure about something to 99.99%.

460
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:57,840
You know, like when you run a test and you make a claim about how well I'm making something

461
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,800
up, but like, let's how well like a drug works, like right drug efficacy, you could be like,

462
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,800
oh, 95%.

463
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,680
95% of the time, that's pretty darn good.

464
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,620
And yet there's this like 5% window of uncertainty, right?

465
00:31:09,620 --> 00:31:12,000
And that kind of exists.

466
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:18,520
That's the beauty of science is that there's always this little room to like little, little

467
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,080
sliver you can wiggle through.

468
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,480
And suddenly like break open all the unknown, right?

469
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:34,640
And I think, I think my, you know, I'm losing my father brain at the time needed to dive

470
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,720
into the unknown.

471
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:45,080
And I did not grow up religious and grew up very, you know, yes, with energies and spirituality

472
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:50,280
a little bit with like, we, you know, we live our lives and our bodies go back and we help

473
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:56,360
feed the earth very, you know, Lion King, circle of life vibes.

474
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:02,520
And but there's this idea of like, I don't really, it's got to be this way.

475
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,640
You can't lose someone, right?

476
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,840
And we know that they exist in your memory.

477
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,040
And then they address, I mean, I'm a pretty vivid dreamer.

478
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,400
So like my dad shows up in my dreams quite often.

479
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:19,080
And I, and I ended up kind of putting these ideas together of like, there's gotta be this,

480
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,080
there's something.

481
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:25,120
So I'm not going to call it like a pearly gate kind of deal, but why not a dream dimension

482
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,720
with portals in it and, you know, make it fun.

483
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:36,080
But I don't know, I love this idea that there's still access to the people that you've lost

484
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,520
because you're an amalgamation of every experience you have.

485
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,280
And so you have these people around you and they, they tell you things and they share

486
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,040
their favorite songs with you.

487
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,040
And that time you got stuck in a ditch on the side of the road.

488
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,880
Like, you know, you have all these experiences that you get to live through with people and

489
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,320
those, those like live in you.

490
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,160
They're part of your, your makeup.

491
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:02,160
Right.

492
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,800
And so if they exist there, are they ever really gone?

493
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,480
Like, you know, you start playing this little, this little game and yeah.

494
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,480
Yeah.

495
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,480
I love that.

496
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:20,480
I mean, like it's so true to think it's there anyone actually gone fully, especially, and

497
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,480
yeah.

498
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,480
And you just made me think of the X-Files.

499
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:23,480
I don't know why.

500
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:29,560
Cause the scene, yeah, there's a scene with like Dana Scully, her dad dies and then she

501
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:36,520
keeps seeing him in her dreams for like, and I, I love that idea that like, you know, people

502
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,000
come back in, in your dreams.

503
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,760
I mean, it's like the human.

504
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,000
So I think there's like a study of something as well with the human brain, which is when

505
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,040
you're asleep, your brain will recognize faces.

506
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,200
So it will call it, gather all the information, whether you are aware of it or not, and then

507
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,880
dump it all onto the back of like the, the neurons and like store all these random faces

508
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,240
and you're like, I don't know this face.

509
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,240
Where did this face come from?

510
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,880
And vice versa, but it's all people you've seen, like at some point in your life or faces

511
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,160
that sort of merge into one another to create a similar face.

512
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:19,080
But I think there's also the study of like the mind, like with memories recreates every

513
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,080
time.

514
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,640
Like there's like, it's never the original memory.

515
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:30,640
It's like you're extracting like this thought and it's recreating the memory from scratch.

516
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,040
Like you're repainting the picture.

517
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Yeah.

518
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,040
Yeah.

519
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,040
I feel like I've heard of it.

520
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,360
It might be like, I probably read different things, but I feel like I've heard something

521
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,360
along those lines.

522
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,480
It is so interesting.

523
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:49,040
I was actually talking to my cousin the other day and right, we lost our grandfather and

524
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:55,320
she's like, I was remembering your wedding and I just pictured Opa there.

525
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,520
And I was, I had to remind myself he wasn't actually there.

526
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,520
Right.

527
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,960
And then I'm, I'm, I know I do that too.

528
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:08,520
Suddenly, like I will write people into memories where it's like, Oh, that person wasn't actually

529
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,680
there, but they're a loved one.

530
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,680
Right.

531
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,280
So you, you rewrite them into the memory.

532
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,560
I think, I think it's kind of brilliant.

533
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,160
It's like your brain's like, Oh, you can't, you don't like that.

534
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,160
They weren't there.

535
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,160
Cool.

536
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,680
Let's rewrite it because why not?

537
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:25,680
Yeah.

538
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,520
You can pull them in and yeah, I don't know.

539
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,360
It's like a superpower.

540
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,560
I think it's a great superpower because especially when you've got people like really like in

541
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,800
your life and I've noticed that even like being married, like suddenly you're automatically

542
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,160
putting your partner into literally everything you've done, even when you were young and

543
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,280
you're like, but you weren't there.

544
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,600
Like there was no possible way I knew you back then.

545
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,360
So why are you there?

546
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,920
But that's like what your brain does because the moment like someone's important to you,

547
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,320
it kind of slots them in to where you want them in the narrative.

548
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,920
And I can understand why, like when you get older and you hear people talk about memories

549
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:12,720
and like some people are fantastic or remembering every specific data and then others just go,

550
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,360
oh, now were you there?

551
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,360
Yeah.

552
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,360
I can't.

553
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,360
I think you were there.

554
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,280
Like, and you're like, I'm not, I wasn't there at all.

555
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,280
I'm going to be that old person.

556
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,280
I'm pretty sure you were.

557
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,280
Yeah.

558
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,480
It's like forever in here.

559
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,640
But I mean, like, you know, when you were young, let's take you back in time to little

560
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,560
you and just to watch our spirit.

561
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,280
Because you have a brother.

562
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,280
I have two.

563
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,280
You have two brothers.

564
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,280
Yeah.

565
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,280
And you're the youngest or?

566
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,280
I'm in the middle.

567
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,280
Oh, you're a middle child.

568
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,280
Yeah.

569
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,280
Was that a fun time?

570
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,560
It sounds kind of almost similar.

571
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Are you one of two?

572
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,360
I'm one of, yeah, I'm one of just me and my brother.

573
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,360
So yeah.

574
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,360
Are you the younger one?

575
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,360
I am the younger.

576
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,360
Interesting.

577
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,800
Because actually what you said before about kind of playing like the mediator on everybody's

578
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,440
emotions, I felt like that's kind of the, the role I ended up playing.

579
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,440
I was like, oh, I'll be the middle of the bridge.

580
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,240
Maybe it's the second child syndrome.

581
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:12,680
Maybe it's like a child syndrome.

582
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,680
I don't know.

583
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:24,600
But it's also interesting, I think, being the only girl, because I had such different

584
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,760
relationships with my brothers because my older brother was super nerdy.

585
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,200
And we got on in a very like, oh, we read these books and we share bookish things.

586
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,200
And you're smart.

587
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,560
And I'm trying to be smart, right?

588
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,080
Because I'm three years younger and trying to pretend I know what's going on.

589
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,600
And then my younger brother, who's three years younger, like we were just goofballs and I

590
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:49,640
was like, oh, you're fun to play with because you'll actually like, if I want to play with

591
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,280
dolls or something, he didn't care, right?

592
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,920
His little kid, it's just fun.

593
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,240
And so I got to like bounce around between relationships.

594
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:01,320
But yeah, you definitely to become the little like, the little fixer, you know, anytime

595
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:08,560
someone's unhappy, you're trying to constantly bring everybody back down to even keel, you

596
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,560
know?

597
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:16,560
I mean, was it was it also weird, you know, like being the only girl because it's like,

598
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,280
you know, was there like different pressures that were put on you versus like your brothers?

599
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,560
Not really.

600
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,400
I think my parents, they were pretty very liberal.

601
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,320
They're very like, you know, they're they wanted to be hippies.

602
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,080
They're a little behind the times, but they just like played along and pretended they

603
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,560
were in the hippie era.

604
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:46,360
And you know, they were very you guys get to do, you know, if you're into sports or

605
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,800
you're into whatever, like we'll try to help you do whatever you enjoy doing.

606
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:57,880
So I didn't actually mind it, but I do think it was it kind of naturally dictated some

607
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:04,280
of the relationship stuff because like my older brother would never probably pick on

608
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,960
me the way maybe an older sister would, you know, like he was never like physically rough

609
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,600
with me or anything like that.

610
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,200
And I wonder if that's because I was a girl.

611
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,200
Possibly.

612
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,680
He's also just a big teddy bear.

613
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,160
So like, so am I just been him?

614
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,160
I don't know.

615
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,160
I do.

616
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:27,160
Yeah, it's it's always like, because me and my brother fought not like a lot, but we used

617
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,280
to we used to fight like physically sometimes, which always seems surreal now because it's

618
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,600
like such a different person.

619
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,620
But yeah, like I used to like he was very he kept himself.

620
00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:44,640
So I was like my when we were both sort of like between like me being a kid and like

621
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,360
him just before he kind of became a teenager, we were very close.

622
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:54,040
And then the moment he became a teenager, like it was like, I've got cool friends and

623
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,240
I don't want to be hanging with my dorky little brother.

624
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:00,880
You know, it's like that sort of like instigator.

625
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,440
And he was off dating and trying to date people.

626
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,960
I was not really interested in that.

627
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,240
So I was like, oh, yeah, whatever.

628
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:11,640
Like, you know, I want to play games and, you know, no doubt and enjoy things.

629
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,880
So I was like the shift.

630
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,560
And I think it's always like, like, we're a lot closer now than we used to be.

631
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:27,040
But, you know, I also always have, you know, have an arm's length relationship with, you

632
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,800
know, like the by immediate family, because I think it's like, you know, it's I've always

633
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,040
been the one who does a lot and likes doing things.

634
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,680
And therefore, it's like easy to just be like, OK, well, you know, because they get if I

635
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,720
don't report in like which which sounds like a weird thing, but they just kind of go, what's

636
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:45,720
happening?

637
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:50,200
And but every time like we'd be doing something, I would just be like, why are you doing that?

638
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,600
Like, why don't you just slow down and do something normal?

639
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,640
And I was like never able to sit still and do one thing.

640
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:03,200
I had to do like 20 things at once and, you know, have a very interesting life, which

641
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,160
was always like because I like playing.

642
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,600
I liked doing things.

643
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,320
And that was like how my brain just like gathered the information.

644
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:18,680
And I sort of see it with like, you know, how like parenting is done, especially when

645
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:26,760
you have like a kid on the spectrum, like how like good versus bad is.

646
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,840
And back in the 90s, I think like my parents did the best because there was no information

647
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,040
like there wasn't the Internet where you could, you know, research a bunch of stuff and try

648
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,400
and work out what was going on.

649
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,000
They sort of like had a book and that was as far as their knowledge got.

650
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,960
So they were like, here's what the doctors have given us.

651
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,440
We're going to work off that.

652
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,800
Like and I think that kind of made it.

653
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,040
But then it's also like, you know, like out of that from me going to hospital so much

654
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,880
like my brother developed hypochondria, you know, like and OCD and a whole bunch of other

655
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,760
things that I think at the time my parents didn't think much of until it manifested.

656
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,120
And they just kind of let it fester until it was like, oh, OK, that actually is a problem.

657
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,880
And it's not just like him overreacting to like concerns.

658
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,880
So I think there's always like it's the balancing act of when you've got a child that needs

659
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,640
a lot of attention at like certain points in their life, but spread that love and like

660
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,800
attention equally, which is the hard thing.

661
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:27,800
So hard.

662
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,080
I think, you know, my brother, he was like my older brother, he was like so naturally

663
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,800
just like great at school, perfect grades, that whole thing.

664
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,560
And I was OK, you know, like not bad at school.

665
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,680
But you know, I felt like I had to like try harder and it just came so naturally to him.

666
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,960
And that could just be that's how it felt.

667
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,200
And I might not be right.

668
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,040
But I was heavily into sports.

669
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,080
I did gymnastics from age like six through college.

670
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,680
So that's like I was just like, oh, drop off at the gym.

671
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:06,480
Like that was, you know, so I think my parents were into it for me for my sake.

672
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,280
But they weren't the parents that were there watching, you know.

673
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:17,760
And then my little brother, I think he's the one that unfortunately like kind of traded

674
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,720
between my older brother and my little brother between like whose whose things were slipping

675
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:23,920
through the cracks.

676
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,520
I think honestly, sports was my like saving grace because I had a team, I had a coach.

677
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,560
You kind of get like a pseudo family on the side that's, you know, who you're venting

678
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,240
to, who's quasi parenting you.

679
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,760
But yeah, it's so tough.

680
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:48,240
You know, because my older brother, you know, he went through like a kind of depressive

681
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,040
thing around like the end of his high school.

682
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:58,960
I think I noticed it and actually went to my school counselor about it because I was

683
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:59,960
worried about him.

684
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,560
And that's how my mom got clued in because then the school counselor went to other school

685
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,720
counselor and taught me, you know, and all of a sudden she's like, how is suddenly a

686
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,560
problem and you get these.

687
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,800
So but I mean, I also can't imagine having three kids, you know, in three different schools

688
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,600
and balancing all that.

689
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,600
But yeah, it's tough.

690
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,600
Yeah.

691
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:26,760
I mean, like it's also just kind of like the thing of parenting when you've got multiple

692
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,280
kids because it's not easy.

693
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:35,360
Well, I think it's also like, you know, social behavior and everything is and depression

694
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,960
like, you know, don't go hand in hand always.

695
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,480
Like you can be do really well in grades and not be happy.

696
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,160
Like, you know, like and it's like a chemical imbalance.

697
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,640
I think we have a much better like structure of it now than we were kids, which like you

698
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,920
can just feel sad.

699
00:44:54,920 --> 00:45:03,560
Like you know, and I do think like, you know, it was like always makes me laugh, particularly

700
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,160
from my mom's generation where she just goes, oh, your generation just there's too much

701
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,840
worrying, there's too much stress, there's too much like feeling concerned.

702
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,080
Like you know, back in back in my day, no one was like back in your day, everyone just

703
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,240
like bottled it up and didn't let it because it was postwar.

704
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:22,300
Like everyone was just like you were the boomer children.

705
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:28,520
So you came out of like parents who were dealing with World War One and World War Two and you

706
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,720
know, like, you know, the Cold War eras and all that.

707
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:37,360
And so there was a huge concern, like about safety words versus now, like, you know, they

708
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,800
talk about how safe it is to, you know, to live now.

709
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,520
But I'm like, it's still kind of like, there's still a lot of questionable like you.

710
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:51,640
I mean, I think it's statistically safer, right?

711
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:59,720
But we're going to get into a new topic now because it's probably statistically safer.

712
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,680
And I would fact check that I don't actually know.

713
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,880
But I would imagine.

714
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:12,140
But you're getting so much negative input from external sources, right?

715
00:46:12,140 --> 00:46:18,480
So I mean, when you turn if you turn on the news, it's what 99% negative.

716
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:24,000
It's just if there's nothing, it's not like, oh, and local woman saved cat from tree and

717
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,160
I'm like, oh, where's that story?

718
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,080
Like those, it's just that's you're not getting the positive.

719
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,680
Often you're either getting negative news.

720
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:38,040
I feel like on social media, there's lots of like, I mean, I don't have Facebook anymore,

721
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:43,600
really, but I know there's a lot of like propaganda stuff on there and then and then advertisements

722
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,920
and all the things you're coming up short on.

723
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,920
Right.

724
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:54,040
I mean, so there is a I think I do think that kind of plays into our modern mental health

725
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,040
crisis.

726
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,040
Yeah.

727
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:03,840
I think it's also like we're we're so quick to misinform ourselves with with like buzz

728
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,680
quick things and you know, like I blame Instagram, I blame, you know, all these things.

729
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,920
It's like go and find information if you want to know about the world.

730
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:12,920
It's not hard.

731
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:19,720
And I mean, like, you know, the the we talk about like, in Australia, we talk about how

732
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:25,440
safe it is, you know, since the nineties and since we banned guns and all that.

733
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,760
And like, people still have knives.

734
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,880
People still have knives.

735
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:36,000
Like the other day, there was like seven people died in a stabbing attack in like Bondi in

736
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,000
Sydney.

737
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,560
And it was just like, that still happens.

738
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:45,480
Like the amount just because you remove one thing doesn't automatically mean, you know,

739
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:50,560
that and there's there's sort of no what I find baffling a little bit is, you know, like,

740
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:56,600
we you know, and I was watching a YouTuber the other night, who's Russian, who's a very

741
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:03,120
funny like he'll I think he lives in the UK, and a very Russian funny Russian comedian,

742
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,520
who a lot of the time will dress up as a woman and troll people on Omegle to see if they

743
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,880
can work out if he's a woman or not.

744
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,500
But he did this.

745
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:19,920
Like he had this girl come on and go, oh, we should hate you because you're Russian.

746
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:20,920
And it's like, why?

747
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,600
And it's like, because Russians are bad because they're invading Ukraine.

748
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,040
And I was like, yes, but that doesn't mean that, like, that's like saying all Germans

749
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,520
are bad because they, you know, have Nazi propaganda.

750
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:39,520
Like that doesn't equate to like, the percentage that is like, you know, because there's Nazis

751
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:40,520
still exist.

752
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:45,520
Like, you know, people think that, oh, World War Two once ended, they all disappeared and

753
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,520
dispersed.

754
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,920
Like, they, I think it's like, they still happen, like, there's collectives that they

755
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:57,680
joke about all the time, which happen in, you know, pockets around the world.

756
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,640
But I think we look through this very distinct lens.

757
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,240
And I think this is also where it goes to storytelling.

758
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:11,080
And the power of storytelling is a lot of real stories, like, that are told through

759
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:16,880
like news media and all, you know, like, as you say, like, almost like a pivoting and

760
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,480
sad and depressive stories.

761
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,520
They told through a very specific way to make you hate as well.

762
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:24,520
Oh, absolutely.

763
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,280
I mean, and you'll get into your own channel, right?

764
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:39,320
So when I first created TikTok, which anyway, I asked my little brother, right?

765
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,240
Because he's Gen Z and I'm technically millennial.

766
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,560
I'm like, how do I use this app?

767
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,160
And he's like, or how do I, what did I say?

768
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:52,360
Something like, how do I, like, make this app work for me or something?

769
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,960
Like, how do I maybe just use the app?

770
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,120
And he's like, you don't use the app.

771
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,120
The app uses you.

772
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,480
And I was like, oh, my God, like, what does that mean?

773
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,360
And I went on it and there you're because it doesn't know you at all yet.

774
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,360
You haven't been on it before.

775
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:12,680
It's a lot of like political stuff and you can't always tell what you're getting handed

776
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:19,720
right away because you're getting some, some something, maybe talking about women's rights

777
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:21,160
and you're like, oh, I kind of agree with that.

778
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,200
And you're like, ew, it got weird and creepy.

779
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,920
And you're like, oh, I got him on like some conservative page.

780
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:31,480
And sorry not to diss listeners, but like, I think a lot of these listeners listen as

781
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,480
a liberal.

782
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Like, okay, like back out of that real quick.

783
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,800
And yeah, it is.

784
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:48,040
It's so there's a lot of manipulative language use, right?

785
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,360
Because at first I'm like, oh, I think I think this is liberal.

786
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,760
Like I think I'm agreeing.

787
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,820
And then it's it's not.

788
00:50:54,820 --> 00:51:00,560
And I've seen it on the flip side too, where you're like, what are those things called

789
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,200
like a stitch or something, right?

790
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,120
So you're getting like three seconds of a conservative video.

791
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,680
Someone says something just like heinous.

792
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,240
And then it's like, let's talk about this.

793
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,160
And so you're like, oh, this is a person who's going to like break this down.

794
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,160
Okay, that's not actually a bad thing, but you're just getting fed all this stuff until

795
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:29,160
you finally get funneled to now everything I see is pro choice, very liberal and Warren,

796
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,440
you know, free Gaza.

797
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,320
Those are all the things I see now.

798
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,920
I no longer see the other side because it's clearly I'm swiping away from the things that

799
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,960
don't work for me.

800
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,200
Maybe sticking around a little bit longer and then on the things that do vibe with me.

801
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,640
And then it like funnels you into your side and you live in your own little bubble, right?

802
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,280
Yeah, circulating your own stuff.

803
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,960
I'm circulating in the side that I feel comfortable with.

804
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,160
Feels all good and happy.

805
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,600
But someone else is circulating in the other bubble.

806
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:58,600
Yes.

807
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,760
And now we are enemies, like weirdly.

808
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:01,760
Yeah.

809
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,760
And maybe we're just neighbors.

810
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,920
And it's really interesting now because, and I have this problem with people now all the

811
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:13,520
time, which is no one is open to, you may like political debate or debating, which was

812
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:19,880
a huge thing before the internet where you'd go into class and you would just debate topics.

813
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,880
You would, you know, like it was a huge thing where you would just be like, oh, I don't

814
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,880
like cheese.

815
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,880
Why?

816
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,440
You know, all these fun things.

817
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,600
And now I feel like no one even challenges.

818
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,360
It's like you, you don't like cheese.

819
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,800
We all hate you, you know, for blah reason.

820
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:40,960
It's like, well, I think it's because the, like, I've sometimes wondered like what things

821
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,960
if, right.

822
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:49,720
Cause I have a very writer gram, writer focused social media presence.

823
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:54,280
So then to, if I'm going to put my political views on there, which by the way, if you read

824
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,080
my writing, it's in there.

825
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,080
Yeah.

826
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,760
I'm not like, I feel like fine with it there, but on the internet, on Instagram, on tech

827
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:11,040
talk, do I want to get a thousand comments that are telling me I'm wrong or saying screw

828
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,040
you?

829
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,040
I mean, no.

830
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,040
Right.

831
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:20,720
So I think it's also scary to debate because the, the, the people on these apps and I think

832
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:29,440
it's just the nature of living in like click bait, quick scroll world is that if you don't

833
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,160
know what you're talking about, you just can get shot down so fast.

834
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:40,320
So then you're like, do I become an expert so that I can debate perfectly or as close

835
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:45,120
to perfectly as possible or realize I am not an expert.

836
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:52,280
So just by, you know, so aside from wearing like my Palestinian flag pin, then, then that's

837
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:58,600
all I'm going to do because I, do you have the mental capacity to get like ridiculed

838
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,800
by the internet at large?

839
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:00,800
Yeah.

840
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:01,800
I personally don't.

841
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,360
That's not like a, I don't want to step into that fire on a Tuesday.

842
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:06,360
Like I just, right.

843
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:12,240
You know, so I think that's, that is also part, I, maybe that's just me, but I do think

844
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:17,120
there's some fear with speaking up, right? Cause if you say the wrong thing, you could

845
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,160
get, you could lose your platform.

846
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:29,520
And if you are trying to turn art somehow into sales, which is a sad thing to like have

847
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,200
to whittle something down to, but it's true, right?

848
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:37,240
If you want, if you want to be able to live off your art, you're living off of a product

849
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:40,760
and then you've got to protect that little platform that you have in order to maybe sell

850
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,320
like product.

851
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:48,880
So then do you go for the shots fired, the political debate on your, you know, podcast,

852
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:54,240
maybe, you know, you decide like, ah, can you, can you, do you use sugar coat?

853
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,240
Do you?

854
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,240
Well, yeah.

855
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,120
And it's always interesting because like, you know, people, people ask me that all the

856
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,120
time.

857
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,120
It's like, do you sugar coat?

858
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,920
And I always go, fuck no.

859
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Like, yeah.

860
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:10,520
But I think it's also like, once you set up a brand and you know what you are, it's easier.

861
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,360
But I think it's also like, I'm, you know, cause I also get everyone else has different

862
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,880
like products and how they sell and you know, I'm not saying everyone needs to sell like

863
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:19,880
I do.

864
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:26,560
And you know, and I'm a big believer of just making something the best it could be like,

865
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:34,780
you know, and I think a lot of the time we live, we live with the, you know, the rose

866
00:55:34,780 --> 00:55:40,800
colored glasses on and I love tearing them off because I'm such a realist, like, you

867
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,120
know, cause I love, you know, when it comes to stories, I love absurdism.

868
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,200
I love like surrealism.

869
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:51,680
I love science fiction, fantasy, horror, you know, like all these sort of different genre

870
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:57,400
pushes to tell interesting perspectives of what we can do.

871
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:05,360
I think, you know, the interesting thing that I look about like old theater and old writers

872
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,480
is a lot of them were just misunderstood people.

873
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,680
Like, you know, no one bothered to get to know them.

874
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,960
So they were drinking in pubs on their own whittling away at ideas and being absolutely

875
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:16,960
miserable.

876
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,480
Like, you know, they had horrible lives, you know, and you sort of think this is like Victorian

877
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:27,280
era and you know, like, you know, predating and it's like, you know, some of these people

878
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,480
lived in the 1900s and they still like were very miserable on all the stories they were

879
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:33,480
working in.

880
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:40,040
And it's so interesting now to compare that to where we are now.

881
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,600
It's like, you know, we've got all these platforms, we've got all these things where it's like,

882
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,720
you know, internet, you know, it's like that compared to, you know, when we were kids where

883
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:51,720
it was dial up and, you know, you were waiting 10 minutes to get even on the internet and

884
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:53,480
work it out.

885
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:59,680
And I think that always makes me just go, well, no wonder people, you know, because

886
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,800
like the percentage of like population that we were kids was like 4 billion.

887
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:10,280
Like 30 years ago, 4 billion people existed on this planet.

888
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,280
And then 15 years later, it was 6 billion.

889
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,240
And now it's 8.2, which is insane.

890
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:25,240
Like it's a massive population and like the, you know, like the statistics is that we do

891
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:26,240
not have the resources.

892
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:32,640
Like we do not have the money to like, you know, trading goods, everything.

893
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,860
And that's why a lot of like the time, you know, the cost of living goes up, the cost

894
00:57:36,860 --> 00:57:38,320
of like increase.

895
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:45,840
And it's funny because like in the, I think it was like in the 90s, I'm going to say,

896
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,480
in Australia, universities were free.

897
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:49,480
They were all free.

898
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,640
So education, college was free.

899
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:57,280
It was all, and then suddenly they decided, no, we're going to make people pay for this.

900
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,280
And I was like, well, it's already hard enough to get a job.

901
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:05,880
So now you're going to put expenses on literally the thing that helps you get a job.

902
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,920
And like, you know, it's the same with art.

903
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:12,620
Like, you know, you could go to the movies for like $6 in the 90s.

904
00:58:12,620 --> 00:58:17,640
Now it's like 30 and you're like, how does that equate, you know, to go to the movies

905
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,800
to get popcorn, get chips, you know, chips, everything ends up being a hundred bucks.

906
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,000
Like, you know, and I'm like, how was that fair?

907
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,480
Like, and I understand now, like one of my exes, she was one of four and I understood

908
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,040
why her family never went to the cinema.

909
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,240
They made a homemade cinema because it was cheaper.

910
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:42,280
So they would just buy a $20 blue ray or a DVD, watch that at home and feed the kids.

911
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:49,240
Because rather than spending $200 to go as a family of six.

912
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,600
Blockbuster family.

913
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:51,600
Yeah.

914
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:58,200
Like, did you feel like, because your dad was also living on the poverty line, you know,

915
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:04,560
when he was younger, did you feel like you were sort of like, had that mentality of like

916
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,040
save and be mindful of finance?

917
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:09,040
Yes.

918
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,040
Yes and no.

919
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,040
Yeah.

920
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:19,480
I think my growing up, I was very lucky, very privileged.

921
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,080
I did not ever have to worry about food.

922
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,080
Right.

923
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,920
Like I knew I was going to get dinner and that's, you know, like, I don't know if that's

924
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,800
like, I think my dad knew there was going to be dinner, but it was like just going to

925
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,400
be enough, you know?

926
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,880
And like I knew there were always going to be some snacks in the cupboard.

927
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:39,880
So that's different.

928
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:45,720
But I did with my parents, you know, with my dad being 107, my mom was only one of two,

929
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,840
but her parents are immigrants.

930
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:54,960
And so they came over and, you know, struggled to get traction with one business after the

931
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,880
next.

932
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,000
You know, as both of my grandparents, you know, one passed away, one has Alzheimer's.

933
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,320
Like I looked at their finances in my early twenties to try to help with some of that.

934
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:08,560
It is not great.

935
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,200
So I think with growing up with that, just, you know, like you eat everything on your

936
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:20,680
plate and you don't waste, we don't waste any food that was in, like there's no waste.

937
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,560
But we did get to spend money on things that I don't think my parents had access to.

938
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,000
Like I was, I did sports, right?

939
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,600
That's not cheap.

940
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:34,400
So it's like, if you love it, we can make it happen.

941
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,600
I did start like working really early and I was definitely like a little money hoarder.

942
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:49,000
And until honestly, quite recently, my spouse and I weren't making oodles of money.

943
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:55,640
You know, we always had roommates, always living in like either shared housing or apartments,

944
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:56,640
even as a married couple.

945
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,720
And it was just like, you know, sometimes you want your own space and whatnot, but we

946
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,720
were, we were fine with it.

947
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,960
But we were saving a lot.

948
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:11,640
And I think, you know, he grew up with a similar sort of scenario of his parents weren't super

949
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:16,400
wealthy growing up and they just taught you how to save and pocket, you know, be smart,

950
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,520
be smart with your spending.

951
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,000
And I think that has stuck with me.

952
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:27,040
And this is like, probably this is the first year of our lives where like we can go out

953
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,960
and get dinner and not like worry about it.

954
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:35,600
But you know, like two years ago, it was like, you're looking at every price on the menu.

955
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:36,600
Yeah.

956
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,600
And you're judging it and you're going, can we actually afford this?

957
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:47,480
Yeah, like I think that's also something that I know my parents have talked about.

958
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,160
And like my mum ended up being like the breadwinner of a lot of like, she had a stable job and

959
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:53,160
my dad freelanced.

960
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:59,000
But he like, he put like, he put money away from me and my brother, which was like our

961
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,080
money and we could do whatever we wanted for it.

962
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,800
But they also were like, they've also helped my brother out with buying a house, like,

963
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,480
which I thought was incredible.

964
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:14,280
Like, you know, so they've sort of reserved money because they're like, well, just in

965
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,640
this crisis in this market, it's terrible.

966
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,720
Don't, don't, don't bother.

967
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,600
And they've sort of gone to both myself and Em and just been like, this isn't a loan that

968
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:25,600
you pay off.

969
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:26,600
Like it's a gift.

970
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,880
Like this is your gift, which is a very courteous thing.

971
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,640
Like I sort of look at my parents and go, that is really nice because they did not have

972
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:34,640
that growing up.

973
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:35,640
Yeah.

974
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,260
But a lot of these is mum's money she's put away, like, and dad will have gotten some

975
01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:45,960
from freelance photography and stuff like that, but he never had like superannuation.

976
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:51,080
So a lot of his like back end money was just not going to his retirement.

977
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,280
It was just, he had to put away money for retirement.

978
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:59,120
Or his mum has heaps of money in retirement now because she was in a well paid job and

979
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:03,600
she salary sacrificed and put a lot of excess into it.

980
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,800
And I'm sort of grateful that I've married someone who's quite money smart for like,

981
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:13,600
and I sort of like say this in a very like, I've talked to a lot of people who have ADHD.

982
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,480
It is a very strong thing where it's like, if you're diagnosed with that money is like,

983
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,040
you know, because of the impulse, money is like a secondary, if I have money, I'll spend

984
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:24,040
it.

985
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,840
And so that's why I was like, the moment I got a card, the moment like it wasn't physical,

986
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,680
I was like, it's easier not to spend because it's not there.

987
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,960
It's not like loose change in my pocket where I'm like, I can buy a drink and you know,

988
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:35,960
like stuff like that.

989
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:41,500
I can actually see the tally of it going down and be more hyper aware of what actually is

990
01:03:41,500 --> 01:03:44,160
going on.

991
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,240
It doesn't make like the cost of things any less crippling because the cost of things

992
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,680
are still going up massively.

993
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:59,080
But it does have a better mentality switch in me to be like, okay, well this, you know,

994
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:03,640
we'll save on this, but we'll do something nice if it's together or you know, like this

995
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:09,400
is the thing that is our passion or you know, or these are the things that are going to

996
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:10,400
make us money.

997
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,720
And you know, like this is where we can substitute whatever expense it's like, I mean, like this,

998
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,760
it's a constant conversation because like it never, it's never gone.

999
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,560
And you go, well, how much have we saved?

1000
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:29,840
And you know, like even, even a lot of like our stresses before leaving was how much money

1001
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:30,840
did we have?

1002
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:37,080
And you know, it was constantly because flights between Australia and Canada are really insanely

1003
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,080
expensive.

1004
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:43,800
And so, and we have to go back and I think that, you know, when we go back in September

1005
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:48,240
for a wedding and then we come back here, that's going to be like another factor.

1006
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:54,840
It's like you just chat about these things and you know, like it never really truly ends

1007
01:04:54,840 --> 01:05:02,720
to that like, but I do think that, you know, there is a nice aspect that you, as much as

1008
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,080
you struggle, you can talk about it with your best friend to be like, this is just uncomfortable

1009
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:13,240
and I don't like that we rely on this currency to live comfortable lives.

1010
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:19,440
Like I hate that about the world where it's like everything I do has to be profitable.

1011
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,480
It has to make, I wish you could just do it.

1012
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:23,520
Like it was just fun.

1013
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:27,080
Like it's like, you know, people gave you back in the day, I like your jacket.

1014
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,160
I'll give you this cloth for your jacket.

1015
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,160
Like I wish that happened.

1016
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,560
It's your cloth.

1017
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:39,120
Yeah, I think my partner and I kind of lucked out.

1018
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,200
We just, we met very young and we didn't have a ton.

1019
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:47,880
We didn't have anything.

1020
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:52,440
And see those conversations are, I mean, right out of college, we moved in together into

1021
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:57,760
like a tiny little studio right across from like this hellish hospital.

1022
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,160
It was terrible.

1023
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:06,240
But you go through that with your best friend and you know, what can we afford?

1024
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:11,840
And we always were trying to find the cheapest possible apartment we could that didn't smell

1025
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,480
like cigarette smoke.

1026
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:17,680
Like those are, you know, those like, you're playing these little games.

1027
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:24,000
But yeah, it's, I don't think that conversation will ever really go away.

1028
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:32,840
I mean, there are people, you know, like his parents or other people's parents that I know,

1029
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:40,280
like next generation or generation above us or two above us who are very, have it together.

1030
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:44,560
You know, like they've got their retirement there, you know, it's all, you know, and they're

1031
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,240
still having these conversations.

1032
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,760
I think it's just baked into us now.

1033
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,680
Like we're so, we're so conscious of everything's an expense, right?

1034
01:06:53,680 --> 01:07:01,400
I mean, even, even with book writing, if I could, if I could just like, and some people

1035
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,840
do, they do the whole production themselves, not worried if it's going to pay off.

1036
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:08,920
That is an option.

1037
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,200
You know, you can, you can go your own way.

1038
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:17,600
You can self publish and you might, you might make even, you know, um, you might make a

1039
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,480
profit and you might be under and you get, you can play that.

1040
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,640
And I'm not saying like the other path, traditional path is going to guarantee you an income, but

1041
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:35,040
there's like a, I think I personally believe, I sound like that, um, who's the like miss

1042
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:40,360
something miss universe or that like weird meme lives in my head.

1043
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,520
Anytime I say that phrase.

1044
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:50,680
Um, anyway, um, I think there's this, this higher chance of being able to make a profit

1045
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:51,680
off of your work.

1046
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,760
If you go that path.

1047
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,920
So that's the path I'm drawn towards to me.

1048
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,040
It's the one that I feel like it opened the most doors.

1049
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,360
Um, is that still tied back to money?

1050
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:12,000
Probably, you know, even if I want to say it's not, I think deep down it is.

1051
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:28,560
Uh, we can say we value a zillion things above money and yet the way money is allocated,

1052
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,640
pick a country, any country almost right.

1053
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:37,880
You can see where it is, you know, uh, here, you know, I guess we're in Canada.

1054
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,080
So I don't know anything about Canada.

1055
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:45,400
I'll be honest, but in the right, like we live in such a capitalistic society.

1056
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:47,680
It's the sales.

1057
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:54,640
That's, that's like the King of, you know, honestly, I think it's the driving force behind

1058
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:55,840
a lot.

1059
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,680
I think it's just so the driving force behind everything.

1060
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:04,000
I think it's like, you know, capitalism is key.

1061
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:09,680
It is like everything that everyone wants to do and, um, feed into.

1062
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,960
And it's what society has governed.

1063
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:19,120
This is the way we live versus like how we should live, which is value things based on,

1064
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,760
you know, cause like the, if you really go, it's like, how many hours did I put into this

1065
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:28,160
and how many, and you go, Oh, this book took me like 2000 hours to write.

1066
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:35,360
So it's worth $400, like say, say that like, you know, and someone would be like, I won't

1067
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:36,360
buy that.

1068
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,560
But if you go $20 per book, yeah, all right.

1069
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,120
Like I'll buy, I'll buy one of those.

1070
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:42,120
Yeah, sure.

1071
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:43,600
Like if it's $20, sure.

1072
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:48,000
And so the same goes to like, if someone paints, it's like, that's a 50 hour piece.

1073
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:49,000
Okay.

1074
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,000
How much is it?

1075
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:51,000
Like four grand.

1076
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:52,000
Yeah.

1077
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,000
I'm not buying that.

1078
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,000
So why?

1079
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,840
Because I put like 50 hours into it and it's a lot of like hard work when into it and it's

1080
01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:58,840
one of a kind.

1081
01:09:58,840 --> 01:09:59,840
Yeah.

1082
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,280
But if it was 20, $30, I'll buy it.

1083
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:10,840
And it's amazing what we put on worst of someone else's effort versus actually the amount of

1084
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:11,840
effort.

1085
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:18,160
Cause in the theory goes, like, I remember years ago, one of my friends was like, cause

1086
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,040
we were comparing career things and I had had full-time jobs.

1087
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,360
So money was never a real issue.

1088
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,520
It was just like constantly getting week to week paycheck.

1089
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:30,780
So I was like, yeah, whatever, like I can do a side job and never bat my eyelid.

1090
01:10:30,780 --> 01:10:35,240
And he went, Oh, like, have you ever been paid for like all your like side gigs?

1091
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,040
And I was like, Oh, maybe once or twice.

1092
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,040
And he was like, how?

1093
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,040
How?

1094
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:40,040
How have you never been paid?

1095
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:45,040
And I was like, Oh, I just, just if someone can't pay, I just accept it.

1096
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:46,640
You know, it's just like, yeah, sure.

1097
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:47,640
Whatever.

1098
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:48,640
I was like, I'd rather not.

1099
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:53,560
I'd rather be doing something than not, which is also like, well, a great mentality is also

1100
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:54,560
a terrible mentality.

1101
01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:02,280
Like, and it's, it's something I had to learn and get out of to make it, you know, like,

1102
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,600
but it was how I envisioned back in the day.

1103
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,000
Well, and it's so tricky with art, right?

1104
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:14,080
Cause like, I have made money off of a handful of stories because I submit them to a magazine.

1105
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,600
They're either in an online magazine or print and you get paid.

1106
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,320
And sometimes it's, it's usually based on word count.

1107
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:25,080
Eight to 10 cents a word, something like that, right?

1108
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:30,400
They got to put some value on it, regardless of how long it took you to edit and create

1109
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:31,400
your story.

1110
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:32,400
Right?

1111
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:37,960
So there, I have one piece that I feel like I like wrote in a day, came back and revised

1112
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,160
it two or three times, submitted it.

1113
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:42,160
Great.

1114
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:48,040
And I had another one where it was like, my brain was melting for hours over this piece,

1115
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:49,040
you know?

1116
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,960
And it's still, and it was almost the same word count.

1117
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,200
It was exactly the same amount on the check, you know?

1118
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:55,200
So it's kind of funny.

1119
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:04,120
But, but when it does come down to like, it's funky with, with jobs, you know, then there

1120
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:05,120
is a difference.

1121
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:09,720
Like you want to be making money, but like when it comes to your art, would you not have

1122
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,640
painted the painting even if it took you 50 hours?

1123
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:14,640
Yeah.

1124
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:15,640
Right?

1125
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,600
Like if you had to paint that painting, then you had to paint that painting.

1126
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:26,240
And that's like, when I, sorry, when I really get down to it, like I have to write the book,

1127
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:27,240
you know?

1128
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:34,720
So when all is said and done, whatever happens with it, I had to write the book and I had

1129
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,840
to make it really, really like to, to my standards, really, really good.

1130
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:39,840
Right?

1131
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,240
At least what I think is good.

1132
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:46,760
Someone else is going to read this one day and be like, Oh, this book is shit.

1133
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,560
But right.

1134
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:52,920
So my mom, she's, my dad was more the science brain.

1135
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:57,800
My mom was definitely more like the artsy brain.

1136
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:07,000
And she one time was like, you know, we all know that struggling artist idea is your art

1137
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,800
worth it to you to go for it?

1138
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:12,840
Like she's like, obviously not starving, struggling.

1139
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:13,920
Well, let's go for it.

1140
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:15,640
You could like struggling.

1141
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:19,680
You want to make sure you have a place to sleep and you have food.

1142
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:20,680
Right.

1143
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:28,840
But she's like, is your art worth it to you to, to forego this, you know, high salary?

1144
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:32,800
Because when I, once I realized I didn't want to be a doctor, you start going like, well

1145
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,880
then can I get like a nine to five so that in the afternoons I can write, like you start

1146
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,200
playing different games of like, how am I going to balance these things?

1147
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:46,880
And I was working part time doing kind of odd jobs.

1148
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:52,640
And my mom's like, isn't that kind of the, like, if you get more hours to work on your

1149
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:59,040
art, because you're doing quirky odd jobs, aren't you, aren't you winning the game?

1150
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,040
Because you get to work on your art.

1151
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,040
Isn't that the whole point?

1152
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:10,600
And I, you know, you have to, you do eventually have to decide like, do I want to earn X salary?

1153
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:17,160
You know, or do I care about my art more that I will take a hit on that dollar amount?

1154
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:21,280
And that's a really hard, that's a really hard place to be.

1155
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:27,320
But I think most people who are almost like narcissistically in love with their art, right?

1156
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:28,320
A little bit.

1157
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:29,320
Yeah.

1158
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:35,120
Um, are going to be like, oh, hands down every time it's a hard choice to make day in and

1159
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:42,400
day out, because we are feeling differently every minute or hour, every single day, right?

1160
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,400
Sometimes we're super called to our art and sometimes we're like, nothing's working.

1161
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:46,400
Yeah.

1162
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,960
And so you're like, what am I doing with my life?

1163
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:53,640
Um, but we take a step back and I, you know, think about my art.

1164
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:57,160
I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't imagine not doing this.

1165
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,760
And when I do, when I think of who I was five years ago before I started, and I think, could

1166
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,920
I go back to that?

1167
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:08,680
I'm like kind of repulsed, not that she wasn't cool, like, you know, 20, 24, 25 year old

1168
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:10,720
brain was fine, whatever.

1169
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:20,560
Um, but I don't want to ever be that I'm repressing this desire person again, you know?

1170
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:21,760
Yeah.

1171
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,560
I think that's the art.

1172
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:24,560
Yeah.

1173
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:25,560
It's that's so true.

1174
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:31,000
It's something that's really lived by now is just keep doing the things that you love

1175
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:37,440
versus like, you know, almost like fucking around with the things that you don't, you

1176
01:15:37,440 --> 01:15:40,440
know, that just kind of make everyone else happy.

1177
01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:46,360
Um, cause yeah, it's, it's always been like, I know, and I've never wanted to give up a

1178
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:48,320
challenge like a love challenges.

1179
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:52,440
I'm such a competitive person in terms of that, where it's like, if I can have a problem

1180
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:54,360
to solve, I will try and solve it.

1181
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,200
Um, and I'm very practical.

1182
01:15:56,200 --> 01:16:02,080
So I think a lot of that to manifest and I'm such a storyteller, like, um, like particularly

1183
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:09,000
when it comes to interpreting ideas and, um, rejigging ideas, I'm such like, uh, I've got

1184
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,920
a very like directorial and or creative hat.

1185
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,400
So I love like reading people's stories and then sort of like going, how does this look?

1186
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:21,000
And, you know, like visually playing it out, which always has been my strengths.

1187
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,400
Um, because like a thousand stories are running through my head every day, which is like, oh,

1188
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,640
I could write that or I could do that, you know?

1189
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:32,360
And it's like, I think for me, it was like, you know, having that disconnect where it's

1190
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:38,120
like, I can't organically write, like writing has only been more of a recent thing, probably

1191
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:44,240
in the last like five years, have I actually been decent at writing and not feeling like

1192
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:45,720
it was absolute shit.

1193
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:54,200
Like, but, um, yeah, but I mean, like, you know, like, uh, I think that was sort of like

1194
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:58,440
the thing that, you know, I would read books and I would take longer to read books, you

1195
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:02,560
know, because words wouldn't, you know, match up because like the way the neurons were connecting

1196
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:09,080
just took longer for it to, but like, and so like audio books, I love, I love audible.

1197
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:14,240
I haven't, you know, please sponsor me, but it's, you know, it's a great, like, it's a

1198
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:16,360
great platform for people who don't read.

1199
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:22,000
I like, that's how I listened to a lot of books and I love, um, just like absorbing

1200
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:23,000
stories.

1201
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:27,120
I'm like, oh, if I can just like absorb all the stories, I'm a big classic literature

1202
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:28,120
fan.

1203
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:32,640
Um, but I also love like pulpy, pulpy ideas.

1204
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,880
I'm for you because you also have dyslexia.

1205
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:42,400
I mean, like, has that always been also hesitant to be like, I'm going to be a writer.

1206
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:43,400
Yeah.

1207
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:48,000
Um, cause when I, I remember finding that out and it's probably not, it probably doesn't

1208
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:54,680
coincide exactly when I was, you know, vibing more with the math science route, but I felt

1209
01:17:54,680 --> 01:18:00,760
like it lent into that because it was like, Oh, this is why I suck at writing essays.

1210
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,920
You know, like I don't, which is probably not true at all.

1211
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:05,760
No, I think we just sucked at writing.

1212
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,760
I just sucked at writing.

1213
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:07,760
I didn't get it.

1214
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,840
It took like until my senior year to finally get that.

1215
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:12,240
I still don't get essays.

1216
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,120
Like the way they're structured is awful.

1217
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:15,120
It's yeah.

1218
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:21,320
I think it's really tough when you want to be more of like a storyteller.

1219
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,720
And then you're just like analyzing the wonderful stories you're reading.

1220
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,040
You're like, I don't in an essay, right?

1221
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,920
You're just like, it's not like life giving.

1222
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,440
No, it's like, you're just condensing something.

1223
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:34,920
I don't know.

1224
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:43,960
Um, but with the dyslexia, it almost at that time felt like a kind of a relief to find

1225
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:51,560
out, um, because I was, we got split up into like reading groups in fifth grade, you know?

1226
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:56,400
And I was in not reading group A, not reading group B, but reading group C cause I was a

1227
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:01,560
slower reader and I couldn't handle watershed down.

1228
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:06,120
And then I found, Oh my God, as a fifth grader, I was so bored.

1229
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,080
Watership down as a fifth grader.

1230
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:09,080
Yeah.

1231
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:10,080
Wow.

1232
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:14,440
And I, we, because of this and it was, I think this is one of probably like I said, like

1233
01:19:14,440 --> 01:19:20,840
kind of a cool thing that happened is that my reading group got to pick a different book

1234
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:22,880
and we read this like class.

1235
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,840
I don't remember what it was called, but it was like a classic monsters in the house kind

1236
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:26,840
of book, right?

1237
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:32,400
You know, kids stuck in the house, monsters and whoopie shoobie and spooky stuff.

1238
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:38,720
And um, I was, I loved it, but I did, there was also this like shame tied into being in

1239
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:45,480
reading group C. Um, and I think I carried that a little bit because then when you, you

1240
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:49,800
know, for me, like, Oh, you can't, I am, why do I suck at writing or I'm, you know, the

1241
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,520
slowest reader in seventh grade also, and feel like the slowest reader in eighth grade

1242
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:54,840
also.

1243
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:59,000
And so, but I'm really good at chemistry.

1244
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:00,000
Cool.

1245
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:01,000
Right.

1246
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:07,880
So there was like, I think it did lend a hand in pushing me towards that end of the spectrum.

1247
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:16,160
Um, but I, I think I let it be more of a crutch than it actually is.

1248
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:22,720
I, cause I am, yes, I'm a slow reader and if I read out loud, I will flip flop words

1249
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:24,760
like nobody's business.

1250
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:34,680
But um, but it, I let it get in my way, I think more because this, like if there's the

1251
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:35,680
story in you, right?

1252
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,920
If you want to create a story, you want to create a project, your brain's going to find

1253
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,400
a way to do it.

1254
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:48,120
You might just mix up words a little bit and then there are so many cool tools to help,

1255
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,680
um, help you unscramble them.

1256
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:58,480
Um, but just like, like you, like I, I, my love for reading just like boomed with audible

1257
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:02,640
and the library before audible.

1258
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:04,680
Do you remember getting a little cassette tapes?

1259
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:10,640
Yeah, I would drive around and we'd play like, just, I just was like, we'd go to the library

1260
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:15,680
every week to go get new, my new audio book cassette tapes.

1261
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:21,400
I remember they came in like really big containers and like, they were like giant plastic, like

1262
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:25,400
half of it was plastic and then just tiny cassette tape was at the bottom.

1263
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:26,400
You'd open it up.

1264
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:34,400
It's like a double, a double thick VHS container with like a little cassette tape at the bottom.

1265
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:35,400
Okay.

1266
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:36,400
What's happening?

1267
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:37,400
I know.

1268
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,720
And then, but it was like great cause you'd, you'd listen to a story and then you'd be

1269
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:44,600
like changed to side B and you switch it around.

1270
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:51,000
Or if you ever listened to a series and they got a new reader, and you're like, no, what

1271
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,000
happened?

1272
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:53,000
Who is this?

1273
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:59,840
I, it's, it's one, like I hated, um, when like audible would play some of the old ones

1274
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:03,840
and then I'm like, no, it's like Stephen Fry is like Harry Potter for me.

1275
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,640
Like that is just the voice of all the characters.

1276
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:06,880
I'm like, I'm for this.

1277
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,040
Like Stephen Fry, I just read Harry Potter for me.

1278
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:15,960
But, um, yeah, it was like any other, you know, cause I think like the Hobbit, um, was

1279
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,520
like the only book I could actually get through as a kid.

1280
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:24,680
Like I could read consistently and, um, and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

1281
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:30,880
Those were the only two books until I was like 18 that I basically properly read.

1282
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,560
The rest of it was through like cassettes and you know.

1283
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:34,560
Yeah.

1284
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:42,440
I think even, um, my, I'm born and raised near San Francisco and, um, we drove down

1285
01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:43,440
to San Diego.

1286
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:48,160
I don't know, probably eight or nine hour drive, you know, three kids in the car.

1287
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:49,160
So probably up to 12.

1288
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:50,160
Yeah.

1289
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:52,680
I was like, how many toilet breaks do you need?

1290
01:22:52,680 --> 01:23:01,400
And so, but I remember, um, that was my, was part of my introduction to Harry Potter, which

1291
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:03,720
I wanted to read so bad.

1292
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:07,120
Um, God, when did Harry Potter come out?

1293
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:12,040
I feel like I was in like six something.

1294
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:13,920
The book, the first book, I think it was 96.

1295
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,560
Well, then I definitely wasn't old enough to read it, but I remember wanting to read

1296
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:24,320
it in first or second grade because my older brother who was in fifth grade was just like

1297
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:25,320
plowing through them.

1298
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,760
He could read them easy peasy.

1299
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:31,720
And we had to do before we could pick a book from the library, we had to open it in front

1300
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:35,080
of our teacher and read the first like two or three sentences.

1301
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:36,760
And I kept tripping up.

1302
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,120
She's like, that book is too advanced for you.

1303
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:42,240
And I was so sad that I had to put Harry Potter back.

1304
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:47,920
Um, but we were able to then listen to it on this road trip and it just like opened

1305
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:48,920
up.

1306
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:54,400
You know, I kind of, I'm right in that age range where you kind of age with those books,

1307
01:23:54,400 --> 01:24:00,440
probably a little bit young, but, um, I think they were still coming out.

1308
01:24:00,440 --> 01:24:02,760
So, you know, like I caught up to that age.

1309
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:03,760
Yeah, it was like 2007.

1310
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:04,760
I think it was the last book.

1311
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:05,760
Yeah, that sounds about right.

1312
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:06,760
Yeah, 2007 or eight.

1313
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:13,960
I mean, and it's like, I know they, they were the thing.

1314
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:14,960
It was like that.

1315
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:15,960
Oh, I know.

1316
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:16,960
It was so funny as well.

1317
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:22,920
Like I have this conversation about like kids books and like teen books and teen pulp and

1318
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:24,680
adult sci-fi and everything.

1319
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:28,400
And I love sort of different like stuff all the time.

1320
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:33,080
Um, and my mom's like, my mom is just like, oh, they're for kids.

1321
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,080
Oh my God.

1322
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:35,080
They're so good.

1323
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:39,440
Um, like I was a big fan of a series of unfortunate events growing up.

1324
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:43,880
Um, and, uh, I was really excited when Netflix did their adaptation.

1325
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:48,800
Cause I also loved the Jim Carrey film, um, from like 2004.

1326
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:54,520
And I remember like, I have it on, um, like DVD and would constantly watch it with my

1327
01:24:54,520 --> 01:25:00,920
brother and we'd just both nerd out over like Jim Carrey's insanely talented performances

1328
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:01,920
in it.

1329
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,000
Um, which it was clearly he was just having a blast.

1330
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:09,800
Um, but I do remember like struggling with those books and I got up to book nine and

1331
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:13,600
then like, I just remember like reading became so much more of a struggle because I was like

1332
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:14,600
in my teens.

1333
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:18,280
And so I was like, moment I hit my teens, it was harder to read because it was like

1334
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,080
all these other distractions that are going on, like, you know, like school and stress

1335
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:27,720
of school and you know, like suddenly, um, uh, I just, I just couldn't function.

1336
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:29,040
Like I was like, this is too much.

1337
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,920
So, but I used to always find solace in hiding in the library.

1338
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:33,480
Like that was my go-to in school.

1339
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:34,480
Oh my God.

1340
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:35,480
Isn't it?

1341
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:37,080
Like my librarian loved me.

1342
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:41,440
Like I just chill and just like flick through because I was like, love the picture books,

1343
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:46,320
like the old science books with lots of pictures and then just read the small description underneath

1344
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,360
and be like, oh, okay, like, um, this is about dinosaurs.

1345
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,480
This is about like evolution or you know, like, um, things like that.

1346
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:56,280
So that was kind of like where I gained a lot of my knowledge, but then a lot of it

1347
01:25:56,280 --> 01:26:02,080
was also like TV and audio books when they became a thing and my parents were like, like

1348
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,280
it got to, I don't know if this happened to you as well, but I remember they got to a

1349
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:08,160
stage where they were just like, how do you know so much?

1350
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:10,880
I'm like, oh, I learned it off this show or I learned it here.

1351
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:12,680
And they were like, huh.

1352
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:13,880
Cause they were both book readers.

1353
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:18,320
Like they just came straight from books, like reading books would never a problem for them.

1354
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:23,040
Um, and like, I remember the first time I told them, I'm like, I got John Wyndham, like

1355
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:25,480
Dave the Triffids and the Midwich Cuckoos.

1356
01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:29,040
Um, both my parents were like, oh, they're like, they're quite old books.

1357
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,280
Like are you sure you want to read them?

1358
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,560
Like, yeah, they're great.

1359
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:34,560
They're weird.

1360
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:36,840
They're like such a product of 1950s.

1361
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:43,360
Um, but yeah, like I just, I always found like those kind of like, you know, when you

1362
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:50,120
have like really interesting stories condensed, like, and obviously have quite tight narratives.

1363
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:54,320
Um, it was more enticing rather than these long stretching.

1364
01:26:54,320 --> 01:27:03,200
Like I really liked, um, I remember my dad took us to like a secondhand bookstore and

1365
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:10,840
there was the downstairs area, which had, um, cause I don't know when it started happening

1366
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,800
cause now it's everywhere you can find all this anime, right?

1367
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:14,800
Oh my God.

1368
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:15,800
Yes.

1369
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:22,640
But when I found like manga and like the, the sailor moon graphic novels and like Ramune

1370
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:30,640
half graphic novels, those were so much fun because, because reading was such a struggle,

1371
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:36,840
it was like, but I can get the story in these little, you know, blips of basically dialogue

1372
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:41,520
with not a lot of in between and you're just getting these incredible stories.

1373
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:47,760
That was, that was probably one of my like, Oh, there's there, there's like other ways

1374
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:55,080
to access books besides just the thing that's caught like, besides stupid watershed down

1375
01:27:55,080 --> 01:28:00,720
that was, that one will never leave my mind because it's just like your biggest Achilles

1376
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:01,720
here.

1377
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:06,520
You're like, Oh, I just, that was, um, that was one of those moments that just sticks

1378
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:10,000
with you and you're like, Oh my gosh, I don't read as well as all my friends and all my

1379
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,120
friends are in the group, whatever.

1380
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:13,680
And I'm in reading group, whatever.

1381
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:14,680
And yeah.

1382
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:15,680
Yeah.

1383
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:19,800
Um, and then, uh, I did eventually get the audit.

1384
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:22,920
My mom got me the audio book to try to help me.

1385
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:28,240
And so we, I to try to learn to read better, we would take an index card.

1386
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:30,160
So I'd have to hold the book open.

1387
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:34,320
We're listening to it and I'd have to move the index card down.

1388
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:35,320
Wow.

1389
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,320
Yeah.

1390
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:46,440
Which I think is actually a smart way to like, to try to teach someone to, to read.

1391
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:50,880
And even now I constantly, like when I'm reading my own material and editing, I'm constantly

1392
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:55,360
using my other hand to underline the line that I'm reading or my pen.

1393
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:58,320
It doesn't have to be a full note card, but as a kid that it did help.

1394
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:02,880
Cause then you're, you're not, I don't know, you're not scrambling things as much.

1395
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:06,240
But I hated that.

1396
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:07,440
That felt like torture.

1397
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:12,880
Having to read along with the, with this old man, audio book narrator.

1398
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:14,760
It was just, uh, I hated it.

1399
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:17,000
And it's about, it didn't interest me at all.

1400
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:18,640
I was like, why are we reading about rabbits?

1401
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:22,920
I didn't have the mental capacity to understand what was going on besides that I was being

1402
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,840
forced to read as a kind of like a chore.

1403
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:26,840
Yeah.

1404
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,720
Um, so reading wasn't fun.

1405
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:29,720
Reading was just a, yeah.

1406
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:35,440
It took a beat to be like, Oh, there's fun and there's so many worlds you can just jump

1407
01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:39,040
into by accessing books.

1408
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:44,320
But it took me a while to realize that because it was such a hurdle at first, I think.

1409
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:45,320
Yeah.

1410
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,960
I think it's like, you know, there's something I really appreciate more in my thirties and

1411
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:57,960
like, like, like, like like twenties, um, is, is that, you know, like is, is the fact

1412
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:02,440
that it's like, you know, the thing that I love is being able to jump in the worlds of

1413
01:30:02,440 --> 01:30:08,200
like different things and realize that books have different ways of storytelling and, you

1414
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:13,120
know, um, and I love seeing adaptations of like, of books that are done well rather than

1415
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:17,360
like, you know, versus like ones that are done terribly.

1416
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,720
There's a lot of those people feel that way.

1417
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:25,520
Um, when your favorite book becomes like a horrendously awful film and you're like, Oh

1418
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:26,520
man.

1419
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:27,520
Well, yeah.

1420
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:31,560
I think I shouldn't touch anything that she writes in a movie format.

1421
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:35,960
Um, I've made that collective decision cause Fantastic Beasts was terrible.

1422
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:42,560
Um, but you know, like anything that they, other writers wrote and adapted were much

1423
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:43,560
better.

1424
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,800
Like I feel like it's like when you work well, um, and especially like, you know, writing

1425
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,280
for different formats is such a different knack.

1426
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:51,480
It's like such a different skill.

1427
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:58,240
Um, and adapting work is like such a like foreign, you know, like concept for a lot

1428
01:30:58,240 --> 01:30:59,240
of people.

1429
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:03,960
So it's like, I find when writers do it well, you, it's just flawless.

1430
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:09,720
Like it's, you know, like, um, and I mean like Stephen King is the prime example of

1431
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:13,360
another person who should never adapt his own work because he for years would complain

1432
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:18,880
about like, um, The Shining being a terrible movie that Stanley Kubrick had made.

1433
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:22,800
And so he decided to make his own and it was rated so poorly.

1434
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,680
Um, but I didn't know that.

1435
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:26,680
Yeah.

1436
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:28,320
It's like, it was made in the nineties.

1437
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:34,680
Um, and he thought that Jack Nicholson was too like erratic for the original movie.

1438
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:36,320
And I was like, yeah, probably.

1439
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:38,200
But also it just kind of worked.

1440
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,960
Um, and I can't imagine anyone other way.

1441
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:42,960
That's wow.

1442
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:44,500
No, I know.

1443
01:31:44,500 --> 01:31:46,600
That's like the thing that I baffles me.

1444
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:51,520
It's a little bit like you, you picked an amazing director and then you're like, I'm

1445
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:52,520
going to do it better.

1446
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:54,120
And it was actually worse.

1447
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,560
But, um, it's that, I don't know.

1448
01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:02,200
I mean, like I can imagine it's very hard to separate from your art and you want to

1449
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:03,200
be a part of it.

1450
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:06,440
And you have this vision of what it looks like, right?

1451
01:32:06,440 --> 01:32:13,920
Cause um, one thing, you know, like I've done a lot of like reading on writing craft and,

1452
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:20,880
you know, if you're going to write an action scene or something, you could, but it would

1453
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:22,840
be so painfully boring.

1454
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:24,840
Tell every single action that happens.

1455
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:25,840
Right.

1456
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:31,560
And maybe in that first draft you do, you know, he pulled the knife back, extended his

1457
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:32,720
arms swung wide.

1458
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,680
It like, and suddenly it's going to get too listy and long and you're just going to get

1459
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:37,680
bored.

1460
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:43,840
Um, but you see it so, I mean, at least I do when I'm writing, I see it so vividly.

1461
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:50,880
Does it really matter now when you read it and maybe 10 other people read it, if you

1462
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:54,600
all see it differently than how I saw it?

1463
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:55,800
Probably not.

1464
01:32:55,800 --> 01:33:03,280
So long as the, you know, the, the character wins, there's some amount of buildup and resolution

1465
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:06,760
and we're all on the same page about those bits.

1466
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:13,080
Does it matter if you saw the arm retract before swinging wide and da da da?

1467
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:14,080
Probably not.

1468
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:15,080
Right.

1469
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:19,560
So then, then you start to pare down your language and, um, I can imagine though, that's

1470
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:26,200
so hard to watch your, how you see it in your head get interpreted totally differently.

1471
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:31,040
And now you've got a product that you feel like does not match your original story.

1472
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:39,680
I'm not saying Stephen King should have made this other shining 2.0, but, um, yeah, it's,

1473
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:47,280
I can't imagine, cause I think about my books becoming TV shows and movies or some, some

1474
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:51,280
something and, um, wanting to be so involved in that.

1475
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:52,280
Right?

1476
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:53,280
Yeah.

1477
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,120
I mean, there's a part of me that's like, yeah, I want to be on that team.

1478
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:56,240
I don't know how to do it.

1479
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:59,200
I've never done any screenwriting kind of stuff.

1480
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:04,280
So that would be a huge pivot, but I would love to try to make that pivot or at least

1481
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:08,600
be at the table, you know, and put in my two cents.

1482
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:13,280
But for all I know, I would suck at who knows or, or hate it.

1483
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:14,280
Yeah.

1484
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:15,280
Right.

1485
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,080
Like, cause is that where you see yourself in five years?

1486
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:18,080
Hopefully.

1487
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:19,800
Um, I don't know.

1488
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,000
I'm still trying to get a literary agent.

1489
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:30,720
So timing is a really funky thing in this industry, but, um, I would love that.

1490
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:32,480
That would be awesome.

1491
01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:40,000
I would love if this series got traction and then became an animated show.

1492
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,000
I just think that'd be so cool.

1493
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:42,000
I could see that happening.

1494
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:52,040
Um, plus it's got this very like interdimensional dream space manipulating the non, the nearly

1495
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:53,400
non-physical, right?

1496
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:59,200
So, um, and I say that because if you can manipulate something, there's some amount

1497
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:01,200
of physicality to it.

1498
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:02,200
Right?

1499
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:10,640
So I just think that would look so cool as like artwork more than, um, I don't know.

1500
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:14,560
I don't want to like do CGI cause that's artwork too in a very different way, but I just think

1501
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,640
it would look really awesome if it was animated.

1502
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:23,280
I just think it would be so cool and how fun to sit at the table and help make sure that

1503
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:28,320
all my snarky little characters lines are delivered correctly.

1504
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:29,320
I love that.

1505
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:30,320
Um, oh my God.

1506
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:31,920
I really hope that for you though.

1507
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:32,920
Thank you.

1508
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:33,920
Me too.

1509
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,920
Just cross your fingers.

1510
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:40,520
Publisher and crazy anime.

1511
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:41,520
That's like the two.

1512
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:42,520
Perfect.

1513
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:43,520
Yes.

1514
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:44,520
And then we can get all the other books out.

1515
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:45,520
Yeah, I know.

1516
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:46,520
Those need to come too.

1517
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:47,520
Yeah.

1518
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:48,520
First and foremost.

1519
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:50,520
Um, I have one final question for you though.

1520
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:51,520
Sure.

1521
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:52,880
Um, is where can people on the internet find you?

1522
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:54,680
Where can they stalk you?

1523
01:35:54,680 --> 01:36:02,760
Oh, um, at right as rain Sullivan with underscores in between every word on Instagram and tick

1524
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:03,760
tock.

1525
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:11,080
That is so hard to say cause it would be right underscore rain underscore rain underscore

1526
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,200
Sullivan on Instagram and took tick tock.

1527
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:19,600
If I could say the app's name, uh, that would be great or rain Sullivan rights.com.

1528
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:20,600
Wow.

1529
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:22,480
Thank you so much for coming on.

1530
01:36:22,480 --> 01:36:23,480
Thank you so much for having me.

1531
01:36:23,480 --> 01:36:24,480
This is a blast.

1532
01:36:24,480 --> 01:36:26,560
I'm so glad you're also welcome back anytime.

1533
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:28,160
Please, please come back.

1534
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:29,160
I'll bring you back.

1535
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:32,560
Um, and if you want to go and check out more episodes of things we do, you can check them

1536
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:33,560
out on Apple and Spotify.

1537
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,560
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you later.

1538
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:37,560
Goodbye.

1539
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:56,180
Hey,