This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental
health and all of those fun jazzy stuff.
I'm with my special guests and friends, Scarlett Hunter, all the way in Vancouver.
Hello.
Hello!
This is very surreal for me because I'm doing this episode now on the first time on the
other side of the world, which is a surreal feeling because normally it's like my little
crappy studio in Sydney.
But how are you?
How are you feeling to be?
This is a big moment.
I know.
I feel like you're encroaching, not encroaching, like just sounds like you're encroaching on
my property and like, here I am, you know, just in your neighbourhood, just speaking
of you.
You've just popped in.
I mean, like, do you?
It's perfect.
As an Australian living abroad, how do you feel that I'm now touching your territory
and snaking?
I'm very annoyed.
I'll let myself out.
It's really annoying that you're here.
I'm just going to...
No, there are so many Australians in Vancouver.
I know.
It's crazy.
And if you go to Whistler, how long?
I can't remember how long you guys are here for.
Like six days.
Oh, okay.
But Whistler, you won't even hear like an American or North American accent in Vancouver.
You can't even hear it.
You can't hear it.
You can't even hear it.
You can't hear it.
You're like, I can't hear it.
You can't hear it.
You can't even hear it.
You can't hear it.
You can't even hear it.
You can't hear it.
You can't hear it in a British accent, or in a North American accent in Whistler.
It's like, only Australian, or British, or people on holiday, yeah.
And Vancouver, especially.
And I think it's really cool because of the visa exchange program.
It's very cool that we can come over and, you know, be able to live on the other side
of the world, and work.
That's the huge thing.
That gives you the rights to work.
here and have a couple of years working and living in a different country and you can
immigrate here or then go back.
I think it's, I think it's great.
Yeah.
I mean like, but in saying that I don't have any Australian friends here.
Oh, so you're, you're, you're like, I know I I've seen many of them.
They're everywhere.
I mean, except I've, I've won my bestie.
She's here from Sydney.
She's been trying to get me over here.
Oh no.
Yeah.
So she's here, which has been amazing.
Oh my goodness.
But other than that, I don't, I don't know any Aussies.
Oh, that's insane.
I mean, like for you, like first and foremost, I guess a little bit of backstory to who you
are.
Cause I'm going to get to ask you the hard question.
Who are you Scarlett?
Like who are you?
This, this was the most, as I was saying before we came on, I was feeling most nervous about
this question because I don't know.
I don't know how I meant to answer that.
I feel like it's always, I feel like I'm always changing.
Yeah.
So, um, the top line stuff is I'm an actor living, living in Vancouver.
Um, yeah, I feel like I've always been someone who's really, really close with my friends
and family.
I've had a lot of big, beautiful relationships, um, and friendships and yeah, I feel like
I'm always really connected to other people.
Yeah.
Um, and then in terms of my art, like kind of dancing and acting and performing has always
been a huge part of, of who I am and being, being on stage and creating things with other
people and collaborating.
And yeah, since I was a kid, I've, I've always wanted to do this.
And I think that's kind of woven deeply into like my DNA, just that kind of razzle dazzle,
um, showbiz.
Yeah.
It's kind of, yeah, woven into who I am.
So I'm naturally quite extroverted.
Um, yeah.
Which is extraordinary because like, you know, we talk about not really changing and then
changing so much in the space of a year.
Um, cause I had this epiphany not long ago.
Um, you know, when you're a kid and you, you, you're, your understanding is still growing.
You know, you've, you've got this sort of like, uh, sort of wide-eyed bewilderment at
everything and you're sort of fascinating.
You're so excited by everything.
And then you sort of get to an adult and you're sort of just trying to navigate all the rules
and regulations and what's going on in the world.
Um, minus puberty that happens.
Um, and I think the one thing I've always sort of gone, and it doesn't matter how old
you are, I think there's core values and there's core belief systems that don't really change
for us.
Like being kind, being considerate.
Um, you know, some insecurities we have don't really go away.
That they just sort of manifest into something else.
Like there's this real, like, and I think it's a human behavior thing.
I'm not going to be like, um, like psychologist.
I think there's a real sense of like, we do remain fundamentally the same, but a lot of
our experiences change us and help us grow and help us solidify or counter a belief we
might have had.
But a lot of the belief systems, like, you know, who we are and what makes us a person,
um, really stick by, like they have to be something quite significant to push us.
To be totally different.
Totally different and far beyond like, you know, when you see in films where it's like,
um, I think I watched the next three days with Russell Crowe the other day.
I haven't seen that.
It's a fun film, but like, it's just, he goes out like being this regular man, his wife
gets arrested and then he starts murdering and not like straight up murder, but he killed
like two people.
And I'm like, that takes a lot from just like, you know, knuckling down and then being like,
I'm going to murder these people.
So I think, I think for, for that sense, it's really like, yes, we do change, but I don't
think we're going to change in this quite the same way.
Do you feel like younger you would be astounded where you are now?
Such a beautiful question.
And I feel that always sparks like emotion in me talking about your younger self.
And I've been talking a lot about this in therapy about like my talk, talking to my
inner child and part of me, part of me feels, yes, I would be like, oh my God, I'm going
to do this.
Oh my God, you've gone and done it.
Like my, I moved here from New York and living in New York was like my dream growing up.
And then when I actually got there, I was like, holy fuck, I'm fucking doing this thing.
Oh my God.
And, and it, I, and I still feel so grateful and shocked when I'm doing something very
fucking cool.
Yeah.
But it been on, on like the other side of that coin.
And I, I feel like I've always kind of known that this was what I was going to do.
Like my path I've always, it's, it's almost, it's not like I didn't have a choice as in
I had like dance mom or anything, but like I had the opposite of dance, dance parents
and performer parents growing up, but I've kind of always been really certain and secure
like in my heart and in my bones that this is what I'm going to do with my life.
So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm never like, oh my God, this is so weird that I'm doing this thing
because it's kind of, I've had this like inner knowing of wanting to, wanting to, to perform
and wanting to be on stage and wanting to, you know, be, be an artist.
I've kind of always wanted that and always known that.
And you know, I've, I heard someone saying in interview, like, I think it was after like
a UFC fight or something.
They were like, Oh, could you, could you ever believe that you, you know, you were here
right now?
And this guy was like, yes, I knew I was going to find that kind of resonated to me because
I was like, yeah, sometimes you just know what you're going to do.
And I feel so lucky that I've had that knowing because a lot of people that I know, you know,
you're still trying to work out what they want to do and what lights them up and what
they're passionate about.
Yeah.
But I've kind of always had this comfort in it's going to what I'm doing is, is what I'm
meant to be doing.
Yeah.
I know.
I love that because it's, and it's interesting because isn't that like when you go back to
therapy, um, I think there's a huge amount of like fear interpretation with like, you
know, performing and acting because it's such a vulnerable thing.
And I always think it is such a vulnerable thing because it is like exposing these raw
elements of yourself, whether you sort of like feel it or not.
And a lot of it is like the fundamentals.
It's kind of like its own therapy and, and trauma loading up, which is so interesting.
Oh, well, good thing that thing happened to me because I can use that.
Yeah.
No, it's like, oh, there's another little like cherry on top that I can just like trauma
bond.
But I do think that there's like a real element.
I think it's like also when I, you know, I seen like the national theater and stuff and
performances from like their online videos, which I think are phenomenal.
But also like captivating drama performances on TV and film.
Um, it really is a sense like it is, it is this sort of like really weird feeling because
yeah, when you're a kid, it seems so impossible.
It seems so hard to reach.
Um, versus like now, I mean, like, what were you like as a kid?
What, what was your little you?
What was I like as a kid?
I was very playful and imaginative.
My mom would always like tell these stories that I would be like in my room, like playing
an entire game by myself, like being like, like I would play like teacher and I'd be
the teacher and then I'd be the student and then I'd be the, and so I was like very playful
and imaginative.
And I think as well that, um, lends to, as you get older, pulling on that imagination
in my work and in, in the craft of acting, being able to have that imagination.
So I was always, I was always very playful, very sensitive and I'm still very sensitive,
but I think I'm mask it.
I mask it a lot with my, I guess my like extrovertedness that I was talking about before.
I'm like, oh yeah, all good.
Even though I'm like, ow, that really, you know, um, but I, yeah, I was very sensitive,
very emotional kid.
I was like, I would cry a lot.
I would feel things a lot and like feel like if I was having a, you know, a school, a playground
argument, I would come home and I would sob and I would be devastated that this girl said
this and that, and I just would feel things very, I'd have a lot of big, big feelings
when I was a kid and my brother, I've an, I've one older brother.
He's kind of like the opposite to that.
So it was like me and I'd be like, mom, like Elliot said this and like, and he'd just be
like blank face.
We were total opposite.
So I was kind of like this, the baby of the family, but the cry baby as well.
I was, I was so, yeah, I was like this little raw thing that was just so affected by, by
the world around me.
I was so sweet though.
I know, unless her heart, I think about her all the time.
And there's this video, like a home movie of me, um, do it coming out from a dance concert
and I have like my makeup done and I'm probably like six in this little outfit.
And I'm like looking at the camera and mom's like, how do you, how did you think it went?
How did you think it went?
And I'm talking and I think about that video and that little girl who's just, was just
so like, like you were talking about before being young and like the world is so, I was
just so excited and so present and so I had so much belief, you know, in what I was doing
and there's so much presence.
You're so present when you're a kid.
Yeah.
Which is sort of like, you feel like you're less present.
Yeah.
Now I feel like now, um, it's almost coming back because I felt like in my very early
twenties, I'm 28.
Yeah.
How old are you?
32.
So old today.
So old, dull.
Um, I felt, I felt in my early, my kind of mid, I had all the confidence that I, I was
super confident kid and because I was dancing and performing, I could talk to anyone and
I could say, you know, I wasn't embarrassed much as a kid.
And then as I grew, got older, when I got to like 22, from 22 to maybe 24, 25, all of
that went away.
And then I would like self edit myself.
I would self edit in public.
I would be, everything I would say, I would, I was wondering, God, should I have said that
or did that come out wrong?
Or I was just second guessing and doubt, doubting myself big time.
It's almost like the, it's the classic society kind of catches up with you.
And then that innocent and that playful, like imaginative kid who was so confident, then
where does that all go?
And then all the kind of social constructs of being, you know, not wanting to outshine
anyone or not wanting to be arrogant and not wanting, I was like almost, oh, I can't do
that.
That's too confident.
And I feel like that's in a very, a very Australian thing.
Yeah.
As well.
100%.
And I think it's also like, like, I'm just drinking my coffee.
I love it.
It was the sound of it.
The sound of it.
Did you hear that?
I did.
Yeah.
I really, I do think that it's this particular look at Australian women as well, particularly
like actors, but I do think that there's a glorified, I think because we have such a
culture around it, like a very like almost sex driven culture around, like the idolization
and, you know, like, particularly in Australia, which it's quite bad there.
But you know, like that you, when you're in your twenties, it's like the best time you'll
look for women in that.
And you know, the older you get, the more haggard you get.
And that's sort of like, it's harder to be attractive.
That is such an Australian thing.
Yeah.
What I've noticed like between the ages of 20, 21 to probably about 24, 25 is when you
see most like men go after, like, even if they're like in their thirties or like twenties,
they're like, these are the ones, like, these are the people I'm interested in because they're
so like attractive in the sort of glorified.
Young and vibrant.
Young and vibrant and sort of eager.
And it's also kind of like at the weird stage of when you're probably the most like insecure
and nervous.
So it was kind of like a weird take advantage subliminally.
Like it's so impressed in our culture that that's a normal thing to do and sort of like
glorify, because then you're sort of like, I know friends who were like single and they're
like late twenties, early thirties and they struggle today because they're like, why you
do isn't, aren't people finding me interesting?
Is it like, you know, and it's because like, we're just so ingrained in that society where
it's like, you've got to find someone in your early twenties and that's it and you're settled
for life.
Yeah.
I feel like as well, I, being, being kind of social, like I was very social in my early
twenties in Sydney and I was kind of always out and about and I worked in a bar and I
was auditioning and auditioning was kind of like the passenger seat.
So I was always out and seeing, and then you'd get this as, as we all got to 25, then you'd
get this younger generation of women coming up who I would see and like, oh, they're always
out and about and they're always at the, you know, in the scene and at the parties and
now they're the, they're the ones that all of the older men that we were going out with
and now going after those women.
Yeah.
And that thing of like this young, vibrant kind of archetype of woman is seen to be like
the most attractive, not attractive in a physical sense, but attractive kind of candidate of
a person.
And I feel like, yeah, Australia, I mean, I, I don't, I have no idea about Canada, but
Australia especially it's, and even like gender in Australia is very, very specific to Australia.
The kind of gender, gender issues that we have and the toxic masculinity that comes
from Australia.
And I know that there's toxic masculinity everywhere, but Australia specifically, we
have a lot of it.
It's a lot of it.
Yeah.
It's, it's really interesting because like we went to the public library the other day
and you would never see this in Australia, but like the, on the door, they had like,
um, trans people welcome and you know, on, on the public bathrooms.
And I was like, in Australia, that's just being introduced, like, you know, that whole
aspect that, you know, non-gender conformity feels like we're so in the decade of like
the 1800s.
Like, wait, and I think it's also why a lot of our generation want to run away, like because
we're so demanded to, there's no progression that like, even with acting, there's like,
you're kind of stunted to a point of like, you want to be on home and away?
You want to be a neighbors?
Sure.
Like that's a great jumping off point, but to get to America.
Yes.
So like they do, it's like, great.
They, you do that because so then you can go to America and be like, look, I was on
the biggest show.
Yes.
But yeah, there's like, it's, it's almost like this glass ceiling in Australia.
You can see the rest of the world.
You can see what else is out there, but you can't get to it.
Yeah.
And because we're so far away, you know, you can't hop on a plane and go to New York and
you know, have a month in New York, seeing the site, like it's, it's going to cost you
two grand to get there.
Yeah.
You know, before you even get there because of the flight, because we're so far away.
So it's this interesting, like, I feel like Australia is like, it's beautiful.
It's a beautiful kind of cage.
Yeah.
Is that fucked up to say?
No, it's not fucked up to say.
I love it.
It is a beautiful cage.
I think it's also part of the reason.
Yeah.
And this is sort of like, um, something I sort of realized the other day after we'd just
landed.
I was like, I, I, it just makes sense for me to leave.
Like, and I've loved Australia and I will always love it.
And there's a lot of things I'd still love to do there, but there's less and less sort
of like, I don't feel as, I've never felt like particularly Australian.
Like I've always felt much more of like an international body.
Um, but I think it's also because my style and I was talking to him with one of my really
good friends about this and she was like, she was like the best kind of people thrive
outside when, cause creativity, like you can do a million things and you will hit that
ceiling and you will go, um, yeah.
And we, I was talking about this with my wife the other day.
We were, we were sort of like, um, Emily and I were sort of going, there's a real sense
of cancel culture in Australia where we are so quick to judge someone because, because
the industry is so small.
One person has one bad name and then everyone sort of goes, I'll never work with that person.
And the moment you go overseas, you can work with 10 people and they'll be like, oh yeah,
no, that person, I didn't have a great experience, but you can work with them.
So don't, you know, like, or I think they had an off day, don't stress.
Like, you know, there's a different kind of vibe because everyone's got this well switched
on.
It's like not their first rodeo was ever in Australia.
It's like, it's day one and we're all just going, fuck, you know, we've got to make the
best.
Or it's not their first rodeo, but they still kind of grip it like it is.
Yeah.
I think, I think back to what you're saying about create like the industry in Australia,
because it's so small, because there's not much money in Australia for projects.
Everyone, everyone is feeling that kind of, there's that scarcity mentality because there's
not because, you know, thank God they've given us this one shot to make this show.
So everyone's like gripping it as if it's like we're in America.
Like they make a shitload of bad shows.
Yeah.
Like they make so much stuff because they have the, you know, the resources that we
don't have and it helps pay tax.
Yeah.
Like it's so much goes back into movies that we actually want to watch.
I know.
And, and it's an enforcement to make good choice because they're pumping out so much.
Like, I think it was like, um, Hugh Laurie was saying when he was doing house, he was
like, you're making 22 episodes a year.
Um, you know, and the split in like two giant production blocks, you know, it's, it's massive.
But he was saying it was the best because, you know, cause you get about 10 dud episodes
and you still get about 12 gold ones.
Like he was like, you just kind of don't know because per season they're just knocking them
out so fast, but it trains you as an actor because in Britain and Australia, they do
so many takes.
Whereas here you're going to have got three takes.
You've got to move on.
Yeah.
You just got to nail it and you got to go.
There's just not that, not the resources.
And then I feel like that kind of plays into that glass box because you're like, Oh, this
is great.
But it's a very, it's going to be very hard for them to take a chance on an actor.
That's not very well known because they don't want to risk it not working.
Yeah.
They can't have the bad, they can't have 12 bad episodes.
No, they just can't, they just can't do it.
No, and it does like, it does make it quite sad.
I mean like when you landed here, like when you, cause you moved to New York first.
Yeah.
So I moved, uh, I grew up on the, I'm English.
My parents, I was born in Spain.
I was about to say, I was like, your accent does not match.
I know it's a bit confusing.
I was, I was born in Spain in Gran Canaria.
My parents are English.
Yep.
And then I moved to the Gold Coast, the Goldie.
The Goldie when I was, uh, six.
Wow.
That would have been culture shock right there.
Yeah.
And that, that was weird as well being in primary school and being this like redheaded
pale skin girl named Scarlett who was like, had a British accent and I just wanted to
be like Emma or Jessica and be tanned and be able to go to the beach and like, but like
I was never allowed in the sun and I was never, so I just felt very fish out of water on the
Gold Coast.
Um, and that plays in what you were saying about feeling international or just feeling
like I never really felt like I belonged on the Gold Coast.
Like I knew, I knew growing up that it was just temporary.
Yeah.
I never felt like I was going to stay there long.
And then, um, when I finished high school, I moved to Sydney and went to Brent street
performing art school.
Love.
Yep.
Did you see, they just did a documentary about it on Amazon.
It's so funny.
They've just done a documentary about it.
It's crazy, crazy throwback triggering.
Like I watched it with my boyfriend.
We watched an episode and I was like, yep, that's it.
I don't need to watch any more of that.
Like you're like, I'm done.
This is like super close to home.
Um, and then I went to Brent street and then I went to acting school and then I lived,
uh, in Sydney for about eight years.
And then, but same thing.
I just knew that I wasn't like, I'm not going to buy a house here.
I just knew that in my heart that I was not going to live there forever.
And I kind of always felt that way about Australia.
And then, yeah, I moved to New York, uh, beginning of 2022 and did, uh, the summer program at
Stella Adler, the acting program.
And then I moved to Vancouver in April, 2023.
Oh, wow.
So it's been like fast track.
I feel like my kind of early mid twenties, I was like bopping along and I had all these
dreams and all these things inside of me that I wanted to do.
And then after I hit 25, I was like, fuck, oh my God, if I don't actually take a step,
I'm not going to do these things.
Yeah.
So then I, yeah, then I had to leave, but I, I was in a very long relationship, um,
with a beautiful, beautiful person and he didn't want to come.
He had his, his shit in Sydney that he wanted to stay for.
And so when I moved to New York, it was kind of this like blowing up of everything.
Yeah.
Everything that I knew, um, in Australia for uncertainty, I had no idea what to expect
moving, but I knew I needed to do it.
Yeah.
Did you feel, cause you saying you're feeling international as well.
Yeah.
Um, mine was always like, it was really weird cause I grew up in Sydney and, um, like I
think my brother's more attached to Australia than I am, which is always like the way, but,
um, I remember my parents.
Like they had great, uh, they had grandparents were from England and their grandparents,
uh, their parents were from Australia.
So they were born here and stuff like that.
So it was like, there was no way I was going to get an international visa or anything like
that.
But, um, I remember thinking like there was, I used to watch a lot of British and American
TV and I never related to the Australian TV.
And I remember particularly Australian culture always weeded me out.
Like it just was a very weird thing.
Like it's a freaky, it's so freaky.
And everyone was like, um, I was very pale skinned, didn't like going out in the sun
particularly, um, loved going to the movies, like the movies and theater were my safe space.
A lot of my friends growing up had no interest in that.
Like they, they weren't creative.
Um, I really struggled to like, and I remember when I did drama class, like drama class in
school was very competitive.
So it was like, it was always, who was the loudest in the room?
Did you go to the performing arts school?
Um, no, I wish, I wish I went to Newtown performing arts.
Newtown, that's it.
Um, no, I went to, so I went to Lycart Sydney secondary college and then I went to Black
Waddle and we just did a standard drama class, but it was very competitive.
We had an improv group and it was run by a bunch of people I knew and it was so competitive
to get in.
Um, because they all, they basically judged on who they thought was funny.
And it was so, it was that, and they all had this distinct style of humor.
I had grown and still to this day, I have a very sarcastic deadpan humor, which is not
very Australian.
Like a lot of it's very morbid jokes and very like, um, sarcastic like responses.
A lot of people in Australia love like crass humor.
We're very into like crass or like a lot of weird humor.
And it's like, if, if the only jokes they know how to make is like, if they're taking
the piss out of you, yeah.
And like teasing you and it's like, it's all the jokes always at someone else's expense.
It's always someone else's expense.
And I'm just like, I'm always about like the variety of jokes.
And I particularly like, I'd watch a lot of shows that no one ever heard of.
And I think that was sort of the real indication for me growing up was like, oh, I am different.
And I loved it.
Like I remember I was such a, like I've traveled overseas twice by myself and I think it was
a real eye opener because like, I just loved it.
And I was like, I love just traveling, like I love just exploring life, seeing nature
and being kind of like a stupid idiot, which I think was the joy.
Um, yeah, the freedom.
And I think like there was something, one of my, one of my sort of like, once I started
the podcast and everything, that was kind of like the reigniting of a lot of love for
like, cause I always loved film and I always wanted to make film and I would do a lot of
projects like, and this is the thing about Australia, there's not much money in it.
So whenever I made film projects, it was a lot of asking of favors and friends and being
like, Hey, can you do a weekend?
And they'll be like, if I don't have work, sure.
Like, so you'd ask like your friends to do your favors.
You'd feel bad because you wanted to pay people, but you had no financial like gain.
Um, and you just hope like, I remember I helped produce a friend's short film and I was amazed.
She pulled it off in three days and it's great.
And I think it's going to do well in festivals, but it was one of those situations where it's
like literally, I was like, I've been in your shoes where you have to literally ask everyone,
Hey, you can't be paid, but I'll pay for expenses like food.
Take work off, but, and you won't be getting paid and you'll be losing money.
But I will make a big spag bowl.
Yes.
Basically it's like, it's us and that's Australia.
Like we are, we're sort of very, but I think there was a kind of a point and I was talking
with one of my friends literally the other week where she was like, you're so worth the
cost of like, you know, everything you do, you should be paid.
Like you should, you shouldn't be doing anything for free anymore.
Like you should be paid.
I was like, it's so interesting because in Australia we're so like, no one has the money
to pay was here.
That's just, that's just endless.
Like, people just do it because it's, it's just like the right thing to do.
It's like, I will give you this, you know, cause if I don't, I just feel bad that I haven't
given you any compensation for your hard effort.
Whereas in Australia you go, I'll just do you something for free.
They're like, okay, take it at the next chance.
It's like surprising if you're getting paid in Australia.
I know.
I like, I feel like every short film or every theater job or every, anything that I did
as I was, you know, try trying to make it happen in Australia was always the given was
that you weren't getting paid.
Yeah.
It's like only if you book a big commercial or a gig or like it was like three grand then.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Like you don't, you just, it's just a given that everyone is working for free.
Yeah.
But here you're right.
It's the, it's the opposite.
If you're not getting paid, everyone's like, wait, what?
It's unpaid.
Yeah.
Like can't, they can't believe it.
I mean, did you, what was the weirdest experience of like working and doing short
films in Australia that you were like, I should be absolutely paid?
I had to kiss like a seven year old man once.
70.
Oh, 70.
70 year old man.
I was like seven.
I was like, wow, that's like, he was a grown man.
Yeah.
I met, I did a music video and we were like up at like four in the morning.
It was freezing.
We were like trotting around Sydney and then we had to like rob an art gallery and there
was an old man there and I was like kind of teasing the old man.
And then the director was like, what would, what would happen if you, if you kind of like
went in for a kiss and grabbed him and kissed him?
And I was like, oh, okay.
Like, I was like, yeah, I can do that.
That's fun.
And, and I'm like very playful and fun and you know, whatever.
But yeah, that was probably, after that I was like, oh shit.
I fully had to do that.
Yeah.
It was like, this is something I probably should have just been consulted and paid.
Yeah.
Oh my, one of my friends from acting school made a, made a web series, um, on his property,
like straight out of acting school.
Wow.
And, and he's amazing.
He like written it and, and I had to vomit on, on a car.
Oh wow.
Like in the middle of the night.
So we had like a can of a cream, like Campbell's cream corn soup and I just had to like hold
it, hold as much as I could in my mouth and then run to this car and like spew all over
the car.
Wow.
Yeah.
That was fun as well.
I don't really have any horror stories.
I've been really lucky.
That's really good.
Like I don't, I don't know if I have any like absolute horror experiences in any sort of
like capacity of whether I'm directing or acting.
I don't think there's any sort of like dear Lord almighty that I should have thought of
that twice.
Yeah.
Um, but there's like, I don't know.
It's just, it's always the way, isn't it?
Like I, I sort of think like there is, there is sort of like a these days, especially,
you know, ask, ask the questions sort of proof things.
I know I like, I always go into a film scenario and just sort of double check with everyone.
I was like, okay, this is what I'm thinking before we start even getting to the day of
filming.
It's like always get all the ideas out there, um, rather than chucking it on the deck, but
I do like experiment, like, are you a collaborative worker?
Is that like how you see yourself?
Oh, sure.
I love that.
I love, I mean, obviously the director always has like very clear.
I mean, most of the time I haven't, yeah, again, I haven't had any horror stories, but
most of the time the director has very clear vision of what they want to do, but, but also
they're collaborating with you about making something great.
I did a short film, um, just before I came out here, all the kind of a few months before
I moved to New York.
Um, and that was incredible experience.
I shot for a week and I had all these fake tattoos and it was, it was so fun.
And Lexi, Lexi Goodham, the director, she's, oh, you've done it.
She's done an episode, right?
She has.
That's why I love Lexi.
Isn't she amazing?
Amazing.
Such a talent for such a young person.
She is just like an absolute ripper.
She will do, she, the audacity that she has, has inspired so much inside of me to like
go out and make my own shit.
And yeah, she's a powerhouse.
But I did, I did, um, the film's called girl.
I did it with her.
You probably saw it like on Instagram.
And that collaboration with Lexi was very special.
And a lot of, a lot of the character was like in the script, but then a lot of it we would,
you know, discuss and talk about and flesh out and, you know, wouldn't it be funny if,
or how about if she does this or like having that kind of collaboration on set and being
able to work together to make something really great?
Yeah.
It's my fave, it's my favorite.
And I think as well, I don't know if really directors and again, I don't have enough experience.
Like I haven't done a whole lot.
Yeah.
Um, but enough, enough to know.
Um, but yeah, I haven't been, I haven't been on set for like 20 years.
No.
So maybe come back to me there.
I'll come back to you many, few years in the future.
But I don't know if directors want to work with people who aren't collaborators.
I think, I think, no, not anymore.
I think there was a time where you sort of look at like who was the next big thing and
who was potential to be a big thing.
And now I think it's like who you're going to work well with and who you're wanting to
like you collaborate with.
And there's definitely like people I meet all the time where I'm like, oh, I will definitely
work with you in a heartbeat or like vibe with you.
You know, I think, um, yeah, even speaking of Lexi, I remember the last time I saw her,
um, we were at a premiere for one of our friends, um, short films and she just sat there next
to me and she was like, so what are you working on now?
And I was like, it was just the audacity.
I was like, I love the fact that you're just so straight up.
It's like, what are you doing?
Tell me.
She's a boss.
And I just love her brain.
Like I know so many people she's worked with.
Um, but it's one of those things like, you know, some people just rave, uh, and, and,
and she's like, uh, one of my cheerleaders as well.
So it's really nice when you sort of meet collaborative minds who love cheerleading other
people and going, I definitely work with this person or vice versa.
So I do think, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of things that I, I think, you know, directors
want to do and directors have the ability to do.
Like I'm such an experimental kind of person.
I've always been sort of very collaborative, experimental, very art, um, centric.
I love sort of like, um, uh, Robert Eggers kind of like films where he did the lighthouse
and things like that, where it's like you challenging the film perspective.
I've always loved like, um, really like weird plays and, um, you know, I think distinctly
I love like stories about, you know, human, human brains and human, like human desires
and sort of like this, um, almost like one of my favorite like, um, Greek stories is
Oedipus like, you know, the fact that it's just, and I saw one play it was years ago
that was done really well to, to convey how soul destroying that journey for him was,
but also how horrible the character is as a human being as well.
Like it's, you know, um, you can empathize.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
100%.
And I think that, you know, like we sort of joke about the Oedipus complex of, you know,
kill your father, marry your mother and tear out your eyes.
But, um, but there's a lot of like tragedy in that.
And it's such a weird story to tell.
And then I was always gravitated towards like these stories, which were about the human
mind and the human complex and how, um, you know, like another one of my favorite shows
was like mind Hunter.
Oh my God.
I loved mind Hunter.
Yeah.
And just like those circumnavigations of like, what makes us tick?
What really conveys our behavior?
And like, it goes back to that.
What's our experience?
What's our exposure?
You know, um, I always think about it, like, you know, going back to younger us, like it
to being defined by relationships and our own insecurities.
Like you talk about yourself as an extrovert.
Um, like the, the real question, like the real question is how do you see yourself internally?
Do you see yourself as like a very like cool person?
Do you see yourself as a very like nerdy person?
Like how do you view you, how do I view me?
I think it comes back to that being very sensitive and me using that kind of chatty extrovertedness
as the mask for my sensitivity and insecurities like deep down.
And you know, when I first got to Australia, similar to your experience about not feeling,
I just didn't feel like I kind of fitted in anywhere.
Um, I wasn't like everyone else.
I didn't feel like everyone else.
And yeah, I guess that's still that, that always lingers that feeling like maybe I'm
not going to fit in and maybe they're not going to like me.
And I think that's also in, in when you're auditioning, it's funny cause it's like the
opposite.
If, if you're going in, if you're going into an audition thinking, Oh God, they're not
going to like me.
Maybe they're not, they won't because it's, you know, that kind of, that desperation or
like that nerve, that uncertainty, you can kind of feel off someone when they're not
very sure.
Um, so it's being an actor is almost like turning all of that on its head and trying
to be really brave and trying to offer something and be sure of what you're offering.
Yeah.
But I'm, yeah, I, I always have that kind of lingering, lingering, where do I fit in
kind of feeling?
Yeah.
Well, I think it was, you know, cause I can, I love reading people.
This is my favorite thing to do is like watching the eyes and reading people.
And it reminded me of like, uh, when I originally asked you to come on this and sort of there,
it was a whole element of, I think, you know, there was like, why me?
What, like, I was so, I was like, what?
Yeah.
And it's sort of like, what makes me important?
Why am I like special?
I think there's like, isn't that the, the level of like insecurities and you know, we
have as individuals and I think, you know, it's like the whole like, do you really fit,
you know, like, cause I, I often like the reason I love acting.
And I think the reason I stepped away from it for a while was so I didn't have it as
a mask to mask behind.
Like I wasn't using it to not, you know, hide my, who I really was.
Now I sort of use it as a fun thing that I love doing and I want to explore more of it.
And I think, you know, with therapy and like many years of therapy, like I have attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder, which for many years I denied, like I was like, this
is a non-agassive thing.
Like I, I, I'm, I'm just a, an eclectic human being.
And now I'm like, no, I've got different ways of thinking just happens to be the way my
brain works.
And so you sort of use the strengths and weaknesses and it's really interesting.
I've learned to stop masking and not like let my insecurities dictate my actions, which
is, I feel like that's what a lot of people do.
Like we dictate through our own insecurities and our own like belief systems.
But like, I think predominantly it's, it's fascinating to just like rip off the layers.
Yeah.
I've, yeah.
I think, um, I, I was feeling very, when, when you asked me to come on, I was feeling
very insecure about my intelligence.
And I think that's something that, um, I've struggled with since, since kind of, I guess,
leaving high school because I didn't go to university and I was pretty smart growing
up.
I wasn't the top of the class, but you know, I never, I never failed classes.
I would always get like B's and A's, A's in dance and drama, and then like B's in maths
and English.
And I was, I was a good, you know, I was a good student.
And then I got to high school and then like discovered kissing boys and whatnot, and was
kind of just like kicking the can down the road with the actual academics.
And then, then because I didn't go to university, I just feel like my intelligence and, and
wondering if I'm smart enough to be in the room has always been a huge thing that I've
battled, battled with.
And then I guess I just, if I throw on the outgoing charm, maybe they won't see that
I'm not smart enough to be here or something.
Which is really interesting because you're so well spoken.
You're so eloquent.
Like I, and I would definitely not call you dumb or like, and I didn't go to, I didn't
go to university.
I went to like, I think a huge contention was like, where did you study?
Like, and you know, like the film study side and everyone was like, did you go to afters?
Did you go?
And I was like, no, I went to TAFE.
Like, and everyone's like, ah, and you know, and I, but I, I was always considered not
the smartest.
And it's really interesting because like, and I love both my parents, but they're sort
of like very like prim proper academic kind of people and my brother is too.
And it's just you and your brother.
Yeah.
And I, I think a lot of that was just a feeling like I was dumb because he went to a selective
school.
So he went to a very like get a hi ATA, everything like that.
So like a lot of my insecurities for a long time were my intelligence.
Um, and there was at some point, I think I just bullshitted enough faithful to be like,
I'm fucking smart.
Like, yeah.
Um, but there's truth to it.
Like I think you, you know, more than you actually give yourself credit for.
I think that's the thing.
It's like, um, it's like different kinds of smarts.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and, and it's very interesting because I sort of went through the whole same
thing where it's like, you know, you're like, oh, okay.
I've discovered like, uh, you know, kissing and, you know, your sexuality and like, you're
going to fall around and sleep around.
And like, I think you sort of like feel like that's an era where you'll lose intelligent
points, but you don't like, it's just, you're becoming more self aware of like who you are.
And then, um, I think, you know, there's many dumb decisions I've made throughout life,
like many fucked up decisions.
Oh babe, you're speaking to me.
I mean, like all my relationships, other than my marriage has been like, been very like
up and down.
And, uh, I think it's just a learning, it's a learning curve, isn't it?
Like, did you feel like, when, especially when the relationship of yours and Australia
ended, did it feel like you could be on your own?
It was a very nerve wracking experience.
Like, did you feel like you were capable?
Yeah.
I feel like I've always been independent and growing up, I was very independent and my
parents, God loved them both.
Absolutely love a drink.
So like even down to like getting myself to and from dance growing up and like getting
myself places and being really young and getting the bus and kind of, you know, being okay,
being on my own.
And so I've had that independence in me.
Um, but then I kind of had a boyfriend, I've had a boyfriend for a long time.
Like I had a boyfriend and end of high school and then I, and I always have like little
breaks in between, but then have a boyfriend for another year and then, or like two years.
And then they're always long.
I mean, I haven't had many boyfriends speaking like I've had like 10 boyfriends.
I have like three boyfriends, but they've been long relationships.
And yeah, part of me, I think it was tied into the decision making of leaving that I
wanted to be on my own for a bit.
And I fell deeply in love with this person and it was kind of my first love and I was
20 years old, 21.
And then all the, I kind of like prioritized lots of that and forgot, forgot a lot about
me and kind of didn't, I didn't honor my own journey and my own dreams and my own goals
because I was trying to nurture and tend this relationship that I'd found that rocked my
world, like completely blew the lid off my world.
I didn't know what love was, I guess, before that.
And then I learned so much in that relationship, but I knew that I had growing to do on my
own.
So I wasn't scared when I left, I wasn't like fearful.
I was, I was fearful of the uncertainty and the anticipation and all the, all the kind
of good fear and like, holy fuck, what am I going to do?
Like I'm going to go, but I wasn't scared of being alone.
I knew I could do it.
I knew I could handle it.
It was a shock because you know, you're with someone for so long and then you're not, but
I knew I needed to do some growing on my own.
And then also kind of on the other side of that grieving, that relationship, I didn't
really, cause I was like, I'm moving to New York.
And then I got to New York and I was like, Oh my God, like what the fuck?
And in New York is everything, you know, it's everything you dream of.
And I was so busy with New York.
I didn't really grieve that relationship and that part of my life.
And I've started to do that.
And that's been, that's been a hard journey as well.
Like I didn't also grieving the girl of me, the version of me in my early twenties that
didn't do what I wanted to do and wasn't honoring myself grieving her as well.
And like not getting, you know, you can't get those years back.
And that's okay because I learned a lot, but I'm sad for that girl who didn't live out
her early twenties in a different way.
I wouldn't change it because it's got me where I am now.
The whole, you know, everything you do gets you to where you are in this moment.
But I do have, I do feel sad for, for that girl and, and the relationship, I think you
have to grieve it, but I was definitely ready to, ready to step out and do some living on
my own for sure.
Yeah.
And now like you've had that.
Yeah.
I had that time and, and I've fallen in love.
Yay.
Yes.
And there I am like, I was ready to be on my own.
And then I, yeah, you just fall in love again.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And then I met someone who, who, yeah, it's like a whole world all over again, a brand
new, different kind, just different kind of love, different kind of belief and like relationship,
our relationship to each other is, is so much play and so, and so raw.
And we just get each other and it's just a different, a different relationship, a different
kind of love.
That's very sweet though.
Yeah.
I mean, it's very beautiful.
It's a whole thing.
Like it also, it's nice when something catches you off guard.
Oh my God.
Absolutely.
Like did you feel, did you feel like you were expecting it when it happened?
No, no.
How did it start?
Well, we, I was like on this grand plan of like, I need to just like be single and be
on my own.
Like after this long, I was with my ex for like five years.
So I had this whole grand plan of being single for as long as I could.
And then, yeah, I met Jordan and it really did feel like I'd known him already.
Wow.
Yeah.
I met him and like literally after date one, I remember going to the bathroom on the date
and like putting my head in my hands and I was like, oh no, oh my God, like something's
happening and I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
You have that feeling.
You're like, holy fuck, something is happening now.
And I can't, and I remember saying to my friends, we were like in Berlin, like two weeks after
I'd met him.
And, and I said to them, I think he's my person.
I think he's my soulmate.
I'm like, is that fucked up to say it's been like two weeks?
And they were like, no.
And I'm like, I really think he is.
And then, yeah, like a month later, we were both like, oh my God, we both realized, but
there's that inner, again, that inner knowing.
I feel like, I feel like, and I'm jumping around a bit, but I feel like that's why I,
when I knew I needed to leave Sydney and that relationship was because I knew deep down
that it wasn't right.
Same with acting.
I've kind of known, and that's why I had to grieve so much after that relationship because
I wasn't honoring that inner voice.
Yeah.
That I know is there.
And I think the older you get, the more, the louder it gets as well.
And yeah.
So now I can like hear it more.
And I, and I've throughout my whole life, I've not listened to that voice in so many
different ways, but it's there and it's loud.
Yeah.
And then, yeah.
When I, after I'm Jordan, I was like, oh, there's something inside of me that this is
right.
This is like something inside of me that it's wanting to come out.
Yeah.
Something like that.
I like, I think it's also waiting for you to have a coffee.
I mean, like it's so funny.
I think it's also like such a, such a vibe and such a feeling to really grieve your younger
selves.
Cause like, you know, I did, um, you know, as I was saying to you, the stepping into
freelance work, um, and doing, you know, going back into performing and everything, I think
it's like, I had done film school and my mom was like, don't do acting cause it's not gonna
like pay bills.
Like it was very like that mentality of just don't do this because I'm worried that you're
not going to be able to afford a house.
And I was very adamant for a young age.
I was like, I don't want to own a house.
Like I, and my mom was always like, oh, I'll get an investment property, get like this.
And it's very much of that era of like parenting, you know, and I think it's taken my mom a
long time to still to this day, um, that I am my own person and you know, I'm just gonna
do whatever and I'm not really going to conform to anything.
Um, but I remember particularly, I think my mom particularly is very prideful.
Like she's got a lot of pride and she wants to have a very good appearance, you know,
in, I don't know if that's just come from the fact that, uh, she came from a country
town and moved to the city.
And so a lot of it, that's just reputation and holding that high rep.
Um, and we, my brother and I teased her that she always sounded like the queen.
Uh, I know exactly that.
Um, but you know, it's, I, it was one of those things that I remember when I left and went
into full-time work and I started working, like I did an internship at nine and then
I ended up in a tech role for five and a half years, which by the end of absolutely loathed
working for the company.
And then I moved to seven, same thing.
I got to what's the end of it.
And I was like, I'm just, I'm loving the fact that I've learned so much, but I'm loathing
the fact that this is nothing I've wanted to do.
Like it's, it's just paid my bills.
It's just made ends meet, but I'm doing all these extra curriculum things like photography,
performing, directing, writing outside that don't pay, but these are the things I want
to do.
Like these are the things that I want to fulfill my dreams on.
So I felt like they always like my passions were becoming secondary to something that
I didn't love.
And that was starting to irk me as I got older.
Um, and you know, sometimes it takes also the right person in your life.
Cause I, you know, like when I met M, uh, she has always been very supportive of every
creative endeavor that we've done.
Um, versus like other relationships where they were very much focused on their own career
and they would, your career would come secondary.
So it was a very like, um, and I was such a people-pleaser.
Like I was like, Oh, as long as you are happy, you know, it's all fine.
Um, so now, now as a fully fledged dad, I'll still question that thought.
Um, but you know, like I've gone, fuck it.
Like why not do, do the things that I love?
Like why not just still do those and see if that can make me a huge amount of profit or
like at least make ends meet.
And, um, and fulfill your heart.
Yeah.
Well, like that little inner child that's screaming.
Cause like, um, I think, you know, and I don't know if this was the same for you, like, um,
you're growing up, like not feeling like feeling that you fit it in really affected my mental
health as well.
It was like such a, and I feel like the, the element that, you know, we talk about grieving,
I really do grieve that period of my life where it's like, Oh, did I do enough?
Did I, did I fulfill enough?
Were you the kind of the same?
The years go quick, hey.
Yeah.
Like they, they go quick and then all of a sudden you have all this hindsight and you're
like, Oh, fuck that.
I just spent two years doing that.
Like, and I think you feel like you have endless time.
And I felt like I had endless time when I was younger and then it just starts getting
the, the days get quicker and the years get quicker, you know?
Um, but yeah, I feel, I feel like I have a similar, I've, I've done a lot of people pleasing
and a lot of, um, yeah, doing things like going with the flow, which is kind of like
not good, not in a good way, like going with, well, like I started, I started working for
this company, um, hospitality company that I love.
Um, but I was very good at that job because I was so chatty and you know, chatting to
people and outgoing and, and then I started working for them more and more and then got
a little promotion through them.
And then I'd all of a sudden been working there for like six years and then was running,
running a bar and had responsibility.
And then my acting was kind of like something that I would be doing a couple of times a
week.
Like I wouldn't really be working on my craft.
I'd just be trying to audition and trying to do this whole other thing because I didn't
really know how to get out of it.
And then the years went so fast.
And yeah, I feel, I, I hear you.
I feel like that, that people pleasing kind of catches up, catches up to you.
And then you feel like you can't breathe because you're doing, you know, doing what everyone
else wants you to do.
I was super lucky.
My parents have always been really supportive of this.
Um, like in a way my mom's always like, oh yeah, that's what she'll do.
Yep.
Like, you know, she's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've always known, you know, she's just like, they've never, they've never once been like,
what are you going to do?
Are you going to get a real job or how are you going to?
And I know that that's rare.
I know that that's rare.
So that, that was, I was lucky in that sense.
I didn't have them pushing back, but similar to you, I feel like all of the people that
I've been with, all of my boyfriends have not believed in me really, not really, you
know, like they, they'll say it, but then like, you know, it'll come out in an argument
that what they really think or, you know?
And I feel like now with Jordan, this like honest, truthful support and belief from him
is makes, makes me go after it.
Makes me the freedom of like him and my parents and my friend saying, oh yeah, you've got
this.
Gives you that kind of power empowerment to chase after it, you know, even harder.
Yeah.
But yeah, so many, so many things came before what I really wanted, you know, in my, in
my early twenties and so many years ticked by and you're like, oh shit, I really wasn't
because I wasn't in the driver's seat of my own life.
Felt like I was always in the passenger seat.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Which is very resonating.
Did I answer your question?
You did.
You're like, did I answer that?
I just went on a whole tangent.
I love it though.
I don't stop.
I love your tangents.
Um, yeah, it's, you just only also think it's like, it's such a, like, like having someone
not believing you and you know, and having someone believe it's such a different power
stance, like having someone go, yeah, you can do this.
Like versus no, you can't like, oh, why are you bothering?
And I w it's amazing what positive reinforcement actually does to kind of bring you into the,
um, cause I'd say I'm someone with quite high resilience to a lot of things.
Um, but I think it's also because it's something, you know, with light with masking, you have
to kind of like get to a certain point and, and, um, thick skin.
And I know there's also like this, uh, thing that I was talking with a few of my friends,
it's like, you know, that nepotism or, or, or even like, um, uh, sex appeal, like, you
know, where it's like, how, you know, like, did you feel like any of your past boyfriends
were like, oh, you'd only get it because you're good looking or you only get it because
as in like they've said stuff like that.
Yeah.
Or just like, um, you know, like, no, I've, they've never, I've, I've never heard that.
Um, really?
You're like, wow, that did not mean to sound sarcastic.
I was like, oh, no.
Um, no, yeah, I've never, I've never heard, I've never heard anyone, um, say, say that
to me before.
I've also had a weird kind of relationship with the way that I look.
Really?
Like growing up, I wasn't, I wasn't like, like I, the boys didn't really like me.
Like in primary school, I was kind of, like I said before, that weird kind of English
girl with the red hair with the weird name, like, cause no one, you know, I, I just love
your name by the way.
I just like think it's an awesome thing.
Um, but yeah, I kind of knew I had like a crush or, you know, I didn't never really.
And then, um, and maybe this comes from my, my mom once said in high school, then I got
braces and then I started straightening my hair and then I started putting eyebrows on,
started putting eyebrows on and like, then started getting attention from men in a different
way.
And it was very confusing to me because when I was younger, I'd never got that, you know
how some, and this is horrible, but there are some young girls that have always been
hypersexualized.
Yes.
You know, even when they're little girls, everyone's like, you're so beautiful.
You're so beautiful.
They always kind of didn't really have that in when I was, when I was a kid.
Um, so then when I kind of like got boobs and, you know, came into my sexuality, I went
through puberty quite early.
Like my hips popped out when I was like 12.
Wow.
Yeah.
I was super young.
Got my period really young, got my boobs came in young.
I had like armpit hair and like at swimming lessons, the girls would be like, Oh my God,
you've got armpit hair.
And I was, so I came into my body and into myself and like my sexuality as well.
And like my, like the desires I was feeling quite young.
So I guess that, I mean, that obviously translates to how you move through the world.
So then I started getting, and then I went to high school and then it was like, all of
a sudden these like 15, 16 year old testosterone boys were looking at me in a different way.
Yeah.
That I was like, Oh, that's a weird, that's a weird thing.
So my relate and yeah, and then I had, I had braces.
And then when all that came off, my mom was like, Oh, it's like an, an ugly duckling,
spondon story.
And like we would laugh about it.
And there was, you know, there was jokes about my dad would always say I wasn't a very cute
baby.
And like he used to say that I was like a bulldog chewing a wasp of all my baby photos.
So yeah, I've kind of like had this battles, battled, battled thing with, with the way
that I look, because I've always felt a certain way on the inside.
And then the world has responded to me differently throughout my life.
And then I lost a load of weight in during the pandemic.
And then that was another shift again, because then I was getting attention from men in an
even different way because I was all of a sudden slimmer and smaller.
And yeah, but, but I've never had it thrown in my face or anything like that.
I've never had anyone comment on it in terms of my craft or anything or anything like that.
But I've always had a weird,
weird dysphoria about it.
Yeah.
Like a weird kind of, and even with now my, my body, like I have, like, I always think
I'm so much bigger and a lot of, a lot of young women, especially have this body dysmorphia,
but yeah, I always think like I need to, I always need to be smaller.
But then me and my, me and Chelsea, my best friend that lives here, we always talk about
this like taking up space, the psychology of taking up space as a woman as well, and
wanting to be smaller and wanting to be less.
So then you're not, you know, you're not threatening to anyone and, and, and taking that literally
in the sense of losing weight, women are always trying to lose weight.
But yeah, I think, I mean, same with everyone.
I guess everyone has, you know, a relationship to the way that they look in their body and,
but mine has changed a lot throughout, throughout my life a lot.
And I think now being 28 and feeling really content with who I am and who I'm, who I'm
figuring out I am and who I'm like growing and learning.
And I feel, I feel more at ease with, with myself.
I don't feel like I'm trying to fit into anyone's like in, in high school, I just wanted to
be tanned and have straight hair like everyone else and be blonde.
And I was never allowed to dye my hair.
I just wanted to be blonde.
And then, so I feel like I've always been like trying to fit myself and my body into
some, someone else's idea.
But now I'm getting to a point where I can sit in my own, just in myself more.
I kind of love that.
I think it's also like.
What about you?
I mean, I, oh God.
Um, I hadn't eating disorder.
I had anorexia for quite a few years from when I was 20, not 19, probably 20.
So didn't really manifest as badly until I was 21.
And then it got better when I was 27, 28.
I had to go through a lot of therapy to get out of that mindset.
And I, I sort of contributed to the fact that, um, like, uh, particularly like I identify
as gender queer.
So, you know, a lot of that was trying to not conform to male, like sort of views.
I never really sort of like growing up, I'd never sort of really particularly pictured
myself as a guy, like as a boy.
And I sort of really tried to hide away from that aspect.
Um, now I just kind of go, I'm, I'm me and whoever the version is, is, um, the best version
of me, but for many years, I think it was, and I was talking with one of my friends about
it who's, um, a trans woman and she was saying, like, she went through the same sort of thing
when, you know, she was younger.
She was just like, I just don't fit the mold.
And so she had like a lot of insecurities until she came out and she was like, oh, okay,
this is who I'm meant to be.
I feel like I can be myself.
And it's such a, like a really interesting thing because I think for a lot of it was
trying to hide.
Like a lot of it was a lot of my insecurities were trying to hide.
Um, I didn't think I was particularly like, I always wanted to have long hair.
Um, that was a big contention in my family.
My mom wanted me to have short hair.
Um, and I think it was just like, she hates that I have long hair now.
Um, but I think it was also like, Oh, you know, even going back to our wedding, um,
we wanted a very colorful wedding and my mom wanted me to wear a suit and I was like, no,
not having over my dead body.
Am I wearing a suit?
And, um, we got this colorful jacket from Gorman and like, I wore like a John Lennon
button up shirt, which was very colorful and velvet, um, green pants.
And that was my outfit of my wedding and, and wore this lovely like depop dress that
she found for like 20 bucks.
And we just had like an amazing time, but it was, it was really interesting because
I was talking with my best friend.
Um, and I've known her for like, since we were like end of high school and we were talking
about and she was just like, yeah, I always knew you were just who you are, but it was
just getting you out of this, you know, cause I graduated school in 2010 and back then it
was just, everything was very conformative.
Like everything was like, you know, you do this.
Um, even when I was coming into my sexuality, it was like, um, the idea of liking boys,
you know, for myself was a very foreign concept.
And I was like, I like boys.
I don't know what to do with that though.
And, um, there was just a long, like a fight with that.
I think, again, there was a lot of internalized homophobia.
There was a lot of internalized, like fear of being more different than I already was.
So why add another layer of complexity to it?
And I've always felt like I always have this joke where it's like the next thing will come
and it will just add another layer of complexity to me.
And I'm just like, oh, there's another hurdle to it.
Yeah.
Well, that makes sense.
Um, yeah.
So I do think like it was a really, so last year.
Yeah.
Just about June last year, my best friend was like, let's, let's do something.
Cause I, I saw that she got her ears pierced and had earrings.
And I was like, oh, that's something I've always wanted to do.
And she was like, let's do it then.
She like just immediately took me out and was like, um, uh, I think like a week later
I got my hair done and everything.
And it was sort of like, um, I just didn't tell my parents.
Like I just immediate, like, it was like, I'm 32, like 31 at this point.
I was like, I don't need to tell them like this is fine.
They don't need to know.
But it was such a, it was such a thing where I think it was like, um, just like I knew
my mom would comment on it and I was trying to let that thought go.
Um, and yeah, like my brother never cared.
He's now, you know, like, he's very supportive.
Um, and I think my mom still just struggles to get her head around it.
And she's very like, um, she's very confusing in a lot of ways and I, and I love her to
bits, but I, she has so many multitudes.
She comes from a different era.
So her, her version of love is insulting and like, and, um, and she's conscious.
I think she has undiagnosed anxiety, which she doesn't want to admit she has.
You're just like slipping things into her morning coffee.
Yeah.
Just like calm her down.
Yeah.
Just like here, here, don't, don't, you know, here's some like calming medicine.
Don't mind.
Yeah.
Have this supplement.
Yeah.
And I think there's a lot of that and I think for me, uh, just like opening up the layers,
finding out who you are.
It, you know, and also through acting, I think it's, and you know, I think the podcast is
going back to this, like the podcast has been like an open door gateway to a lot of things
that I didn't even know about myself.
And I'm like, loved that.
And you feel more like you.
Yeah.
Way more, way more like, uh, and not afraid to say it, which I think, I think for many
years I was afraid, um, afraid to be who I was versus who, you know, like, and then just
be the version of the mask that I can put on.
Um, and I mean, like, you know, there's always a sense of catering to everyone different.
Like you're always going to tailor your taste, but I didn't filter as much anymore.
Like I don't do that self edit, which like, you know, cause if I don't like something,
I'll just go, I don't like that.
Like, you know, like straight out words before it go back to that people placing, but like,
I'll just suck it up and you know, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, like, I think particularly, um, do like something that makes me quite nervous
is is like, do not exposing myself now.
Like I think that whole idea, because I'm so used to it now, the idea of not being vulnerable
is more nerve wracking than being vulnerable.
What a beautiful place to get to.
Yeah.
To know that it's going to cost you more to stay hidden and, and to, yeah, to edit yourself.
It's going to cost you more than it would to now be who you are.
Cause are you slowly getting to that spot where you're feeling more and more?
Yeah.
I feel like now even with my queerness, I could never talk about that growing up.
Yeah.
Ever.
But like me and all my friends were kissing each other at sleepovers.
Like what?
But like we could never, like God forbid anyone would bring up that they liked a girl growing
up.
And then I guess as, as I got to my like early twenties, I realized, well, I kind of knew,
I always knew that I was bisexual, but I just never had never acted on it other than the
secret sleepover kisses that every girl, now every girl that I speak to is like, oh yeah,
we were doing that too.
Like everyone.
But yeah, now I'm getting, I, I, I really hear you because now I'm getting to that point
where it just, I can't, I read this quote about when you stay in the closet for too
long and not even just about queerness, just about like being who you are, I guess that
you get covered in mildew.
Yeah.
You get covered in mildew and then it's like, you, you can mold away.
Like you can just, you get, you get moldy and stale and covered in, covered in mildew
if you stay in the closet too long in the dark, like you have to come out and be who
you are.
And when you, when you are, when you do like that authenticity, like beams out of you,
you know, and I feel like I only just, like I only just spoke to my parents about my sexuality
last year.
Oh, and like, yeah, I just, I just, my dad was like, are you gay?
And I was like, no.
I was like, but don't, isn't it like how fun is kissing girls though?
Yeah.
Like how beautiful is it to be with a woman?
And he was like, yeah, you're right.
And I just didn't really say anything.
Um, but yeah, being able to talk about my sexuality openly, I've just been able to do
when I moved to New York, like literally it was almost like the lid I was about to explode
of all of the, all of the things, even my hair, my hair was always long, always long.
And I kind of attached that to my femininity, to my sexiness or whatever.
I put, I put my hair in it and then I chopped my hair off and I like a tiny short bob and
I felt sexier then than I ever had in my life.
It was like this energy that I'd cut off and cutting my hair off and being able to actually
talk about who I know that I am.
That beams out of you.
You know, you people can feel that authenticity.
It's hotter, you know, to when you're like someone that's, you can feel it when you're
with someone and they're unapologetic or they're figuring out how to be themselves.
You can feel that energy come from someone.
I definitely, it's always quite a funny feeling as well.
And I definitely think that being married has like so many perks because I will often
say to Em, I'm like, Oh yeah, no, a lot of people find me attractive now because I'm
so much more confident versus when you're insecure about and not, you know, going back
to that meal, do you think, I love that, you know, like such a beautiful way of explaining
it because I agree.
And I think like, I remember the first time I kissed a boy, I was about 18 and I was like,
Oh, this is cool.
Like, you know, this is fun.
And then I was like, it was with a boy.
I was like, Oh yeah, he's okay.
And I was like, maybe it's just a, like a fun thing that people do.
And then I made out with a boy that actually thought was cute.
And I was like, Oh no, this is actually, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is ticking
boxes.
It's like, it's all about a click.
And I mean, that's the reality when you sort of realize that.
And I remember like, I've talked to a few friends about it and some of them I'm like,
Oh yeah, no.
And they're just realizations.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, like I enjoy that too.
Or, you know, like it does become more of a common thing.
I mean, like it also in Australian culture, like the masculinity side of everyone, like
the bloke's being like, no, no, never like, uh, you know, that guy that's, you know, I
really, I really kind of now only know and become close with queer people, which I think
is like, you know, kind of this sort of weird like, um, cause I feel like people are more
open now.
And I think it's like, um, the almost the, the, like, it's weird to be straight.
Like it's like, it's a more uncommon thing.
I know now you're like, Oh, what you only like, what you only like men.
That's it.
Yeah.
Like what's wrong with you?
I feel like Sydney as well has changed a lot in the last like three years, so much since
the pandemic, like the queer community there is, and it's always been there, it's always
been there, but it's like louder.
It's more in the mainstream.
Yeah.
Like, yeah, it feels, it does feel different.
It feels so different.
I don't know quite what to do with like why it feels so different.
Um, but I have loved it.
I think like I've made some awesome, awesome queer friends over, um, over there now that
I love and adore.
And I think also like, it's really weird as well because, um, a couple of my friends who
are now just coming into their sexuality and stuff, I think really look up to me as someone
who's just, and I never thought I'd get to this stage where someone would look up to
me and just be like, you're, you're like such an admirable thing because I had this joke
and I was even like, um, saying with a good friend of mine, um, Margaret Thanos is an
Australian theater director and she was going, um, like there's, there's so many people who
just look up to you and, and just like, you know, I was like, that's impossible.
And then she's like, but you're doing something.
Like I think the thing is like people just, Australia, we, you know, goes back to that
glass ceiling and we stop and we just stay in stagnant.
But when you're challenging yourself and you're being this aspirational thing for yourself,
for yourself, people then go, Oh, that's amazing.
Like I'll do that.
And I want to be that.
And I sort of think that this is like, I can't wait to see like in the next 10 years where
like the journey manifests, like are you, cause what makes you look forward to about
things in your future?
Like what are you, what are you particularly looking forward to?
That's a broad question.
No, I love it.
I've, I've just done, have you ever done the artist way?
No, I got it.
It's like a big Julia Cameron.
It's like a big, it was a big thing in like the late nineties.
But you write every morning three pages and you read the book.
It's a 12 week thing.
I'm on week 10.
I'm about to finish it.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
And it's fucking amazing.
Like highly recommend.
Um, and there's all these tasks as well, all these questions.
It's a lot of like self reflecting and, um, I have kind of in the last, it's, it feels
embarrassing to admit, but I've almost realized in the last six months, a year that this thing
acting, this art that I'm trying to make that I'm trying to pursue is a lifelong pursuit.
It is a craft that I am going to be pursuing for the rest of my life.
There isn't a moment that you arrive.
My friend and I used to talk about this.
Oh, you know, Sophie, Sophie Renee, Sophia.
And I used to talk about this, about arriving, about you never really arrive.
And we would just have these big discussions and I was, I was understanding it, but I didn't
really feel it in my bones like way that I do now.
And through the artist way I've been, you know, you, you, you write, you manifest things
that you want and you talk about who you were and who you want to be.
And there's lots of different tasks that, that come up, but I've been journaling and
writing about this lots about what kind of the next 10 years for me is going to look
like.
And there isn't a moment where, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure winning a big acting award
feels like a moment, but I'm sure those actors will also feel that after that's over, then
what, you know, you don't, you don't, I'm not, I'm not working towards something.
And then once I achieve it, Oh, it's fine.
Now I'm successful.
Now I've got it.
It's like, I'm excited to just keep learning about this craft.
I have never been, I've never felt like more of a beginner in my life in this last six
months year, even though I've been pursuing this for quite a while.
And I've been, you know, trying and auditioning for a long time, not a long time, but long,
long enough.
Not as long as some people that I know, but you know, it's not like I've just started
out.
I've been pursuing this and now I'm just excited for the craft.
I'm excited to keep learning and keep growing, make my own stuff.
That's a huge thing I'm focusing on at the moment.
Instead of waiting for an audition and waiting for a job, writing something and shooting
it and similar to you with this podcast, like putting your creative energy into something
and creating something and then it finished and actually finishing it and taking the actions
and feel like I've always had all these ideas in my head and I've, I've always written.
I forgot so many notes in my phone and Google documents and journals about like things I
want to do and ideas.
And I just, I've always kept them.
They've always stopped there and actually taken that action, that next step.
And I feel like this last year, I've really started to take action.
And if I feel like I'm at the beginning, it really feels like I'm a beginner again.
So this next 10 years, I feel so excited about the opportunities and the things that are
going to come and that I'm going to create for myself.
It's just exciting.
I feel excited and falling, fallen back in love with what acting actually is.
Because after, after you do a shitload of auditions, you kind of just think, you think
it's just auditioning.
Yeah.
You know, and you get into class and then you're like, Oh fuck, no, it's actually, it's
actually a whole craft.
It's a whole thing.
So yeah, I'm in it.
I'm in a place now where I'm like, I'm not scared if I'm going to make it.
I'm not scared if I'm going to get that job.
There is a part of you that's always like, I hope I, I hope I make money from this one
day, like enough for it to be my own only job.
Yeah.
So the pursuit of the craft is more interesting to me now.
I love that.
That's like, that's, I love that so much.
That resonates with me so much because I think there's a belief system where it's like, I
would like, I have no desire to be famous.
I have no desire to be recognized on the street or anything like that, but I have a desire
to always improve my craft and that I think, and to explore the craft and get better.
And if that comes with fame, fine.
If that comes, you know, it's like, it reminds me of like Hannah Gadsby where she said, no
one prepares you for fame.
Like, and no one does.
Like, I think it's a very, you know, yeah.
Just like that whole idea of once you have something blow up and everyone knows who you
are, it's very daunting.
Like it's just the, and there's no prep.
Like there's no, like suddenly I think when you're a child actor, you're so used to it
that you just grow up like, you know, being like, oh yeah, now everyone knows who I am.
To now, like, and then you sort of get known for like different points in your career.
And you know, as you go up in the years, everyone goes, oh, I remember that film that they were
in like.
And I think particularly now there's something sort of quite beautiful about just exploring
how much you can do with your craft and your skillset.
Like, yeah.
I think this is also like, yeah, I just really resonate that.
Yeah.
And also when you're picking up a script and you're learning about a person, like, I guess
as you get older, you can, you understand more about people.
So when you're 18 and you're doing like streetcar in acting school, it's like, how much do you
really understand about Blanche?
You know, when you're 18, it's not a whole lot.
And then, you know, fast forward 10 years and you're like, ah, I know what it means.
I know what it feels like to do that.
I know what it feels like to do this.
I could relate because of something that I did or that I felt.
So with, you know, with life experience, you, you then pick up a script and you feel it
in a whole different way.
Yeah.
You feel these people and you've, you know, and then wanting to put that, put that down,
like after you've read a script and putting it on tape and actually embodying someone
and being someone that, that to me and that those learnings is, is what's fascinating.
Not like one day standing on a stage.
No.
And I think it's also like something that I love.
Olivia Coleman said really recently, she said, um, she was like, self tapes are so stupid.
Like get actors into audition rooms, get them in.
Like, you know, this whole idea that since COVID we've really buckled down.
She's like, it's a waste of their time.
Get them in because that will really show the talent.
Like, you know, like, and it will get you used to audition rooms because you're acting
off like sometimes people who aren't actors are doing a script read.
Um, and I think, you know, but I do think, yeah, like I've seen so much theater now.
I've seen so much like film TV and I just, I can pick good acting like that and I can
pick subtle.
And the thing that goes back to subtlety and I love subtlety, the less you say and the
more you do with your face and your body language, the better your performance is because it's
like, it's not just about delivering dialogue.
It's not about Shakespeare and you know, saying all these profound things.
It's about what can you emote with your physicalness as well.
And I remember there was this performance that I was directing where one of my friends
was trying to recreate a scene, um, that she loved so much in which she was using her hands,
like really still I was like, move them.
Cause you just look static.
Like use your whole body.
It's not just about saying the lines.
It's about emoting with everything.
And it's really like, it goes back into, um, that, that whole idea of theater.
It's like the back stage won't be able to see you if you're not emoting.
Um, and I really love that sort of whole mentality of just, we are human beings.
We are so emotive.
We are constantly, even if we're not actors, we do so much with our bodies and you will
always tell when someone's uncomfortable, when someone's happy, when someone's sad instantly.
Like, and that's the thing.
It's like, they might not cry, but they will show it in another way.
Yeah.
And that's why I feel like similar to your love of, of the art of seeing, seeing a real
human emotion, whether that be in theater or on screen, like that shit makes the world
go round.
Like theater is like the oldest theater is never going to go away.
Like it's always been there and it's always going to be there.
People are always going to find ways to sit in the dark and watch people up there be human.
And that makes that and I'm going, like when I said it, when I was a kid, I was so sensitive.
I would feel everything.
Like I would watch, watch things and like rip my heart out.
Like, and, and, and it makes you feel, it just touches you.
And it's so, I think it's so, it's so important to be, to be making art.
Yeah.
Because I think what this whole industry is just honestly, we need, we need actors and
we need, we need artists.
We need art like full stop.
Yeah.
I agree.
I could not, not agree with that.
I disagree.
I disagree fully.
No, I think that's, I think that's so true.
I mean, like, and it's also why I love, I love what you're saying.
I really resonate with it.
And you know, and I also just, I admire you for the fact that, you know, you're continuing
to pursue and believe and do amazing things and still pursue it and really push through.
Like I think that's amazing.
Like yeah.
And it was, you know, that's why I was excited to talk to you.
Nothing beats persistence.
No, it really doesn't.
That's what my dad says.
He's like, it's just, it's just maths.
If you are persistent, if you don't stop, you can't, no one can beat that.
No.
And you're a powerhouse.
So I don't ever stop.
Scarlett, I've got one final question for you though.
Where can people find you on the internet?
Where can they stalk you?
Where can they stalk me?
I'm on the Instagram, the famous Instagram, may have heard of it.
It is just my name, Scarlett Hunter, one L one T in Scarlett.
And that's it.
I don't really post much work on there.
It's kind of just for fun.
But yeah, hit me up.
And if any actors want to, or are thinking about moving to Vancouver and have any questions,
like please send me a message.
I would love to share anything that's been helpful for me.
I love, I love.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so happy we did this.
I'm so glad.
I'm going to, I'm going to, you did so well.
I'll give you a big hug after this.
And if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, you can check them out
on Apple and Spotify.
I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you later.
Goodbye.
Bye.