Here is one of a series of talks by spiritual
leader Lola McDowell Lee, spanning two decades
from the early 70s through the 90s. Lola was
a Zen roshi whose Rinzai lineage included Dr.
Henry Platov and renowned Zen master Shigetsu
Sasaki. Lola was a religious scholar as well
as an ordained Christian minister. While the
talks are focused mainly on Zen and Buddhism,
Lola drew on many spiritual traditions, including
those of Jesus, Plato, Lao Tzu, the Hindu Vedas,
Meister Eckhart, and Gurdjieff. Sound true, huh?
Three spokes unite in one nave, and on that which
is non -existent, which is on the hole in the
nave, depends the wheel's utility. Clay is molded
into a vessel, and on that which is non -existent,
on its hollowness, depends the vessel's utility.
By cutting out doors and windows, we build a
house. and on that which is nonexistent, on the
empty space within, depends the house's utility.
Therefore, existence renders actual, but nonexistence
renders useful. That's clear? Well now and then
we think about life and I too bad I can't mention
a little bumper sticker I saw but I can't But
we think about life, you know, it's ups and it's
downs and then Coming here, why, you know, then
we're told a few things about it now and then,
and that there is such a thing as the thing in
itself, the life, life, the thing in itself,
rather than just my life, you know. So then we
try to, with this life, Looks like, you know,
we try to picture in our heads, what is this
that we call life? You know, I'm supposed to
see it. What is this thing? You do do that, don't
you? Try to make a picture of it. What is this
thing? Life. Well, picture it, of course you
can't, but you do have a feel of it. hmm now
and then a feel of life you know a kind of a
sense of it you know you know it's kind of through
this sense of it this this feel of it you know
uh you know we can see then that what they talking
about when they say life flows this feeling the
sensing it and we read stuff in in books and
it says that life flows and life flows like a
river life flows like a river and so we relate
this flowingness uh to this you know the movement
of life going up and down you know movement that
we're in day after day this is then we have this
feeling of life flowing sometimes it there's
this smooth flowing And sometimes it goes dashing
up against the rocks, and sometimes it's flowing
over the rocks, and so we have what are called
rapids. And sometimes it just seems to flow into
a kind of a pool, and it gets very deep just
in this one area, almost to a point of stagnation.
Our life is like this, huh? This is, you know,
this existence is like this. We flow with this
river. We move with this river. Of course you
know all rivers run to the sea. They all flow
to the sea. Are you flowing to the sea? What
we do not seem to comprehend, amongst other things,
I guess, we don't seem to see that this flow,
this ebbing and this rising, as it were, is called
the law of opposites. The dashing against the
rocks or the smooth flowing. or the rapids, or
the sudden deep pool, you know. The law of opposites
moves from one thing to another, one state to
another. Here in our ordinary world, in our superficial
way of looking at things, our way of viewing,
you know, the expansions, and again the contractions,
You know, the effects thereof are pretty visible.
One day you're feeling great, and one day you're
feeling miserable, and one day you're happy,
and the next day you're angry, and, you know,
all kinds of things coming and going. And we
feel them, we're involved with them, and this
is all somewhat visible to us. rising of this,
and then it falls away, and then something rises
and falls away, and something else rises and
falls away. Now, but the collaboration of this
flow itself, underneath all of this, this that
is in the depths, that which is actually working,
you see, that's not seen. For instance, now,
in India, they study and they often read. I mean,
if a little kid is going to go to a guru, which
is, they teach him to read and to write also.
And what they study then is the Mahabharata.
And this is this, part of it is the epic poem,
that is called the Ramayana. And the Ramayana,
together with the Bhagavad Gita, these two poems
make this book, the Mahabharata. And the term
Mahabharata means the great war. It's the longest
poem. in the world, and it is of tremendous antiquity.
There are people in this world who believe that
Homer's Iliad was based on the Mahabharata, and
there's others that say just the opposite, that
the Mahabharata was based on Homer's Iliad. Who
are we to say which one? But old, old. And in
this poem of the Ramayana, and the allies of
Ramayana, who are the monkeys, led by one Hanuman.
And also they had some monster birds, and they
have a lot of animals in the thing, but monkeys
mainly. And the whole army now is led by this
Hanuman. And they are all in this fight against
the Rakshasas. And the Rakshasas are the demons
of Sri Lanka. Now, Ramachandra, who is the hero,
he's our hero in this poem, he's married to a
woman named Sita. And Sita is the female avatar,
she is called, of Lakshmi. And Lakshmi is Vishnu's
wife in the triad, in the trinity of Brahma,
Vishnu, and Shiva. That particular. So Vishnu
had a wife, and her name was Sita. And this Sita
is an incarnation of Lakshmi. And Rama is the
incarnation of Vishnu. So, in other words, Vishnu
on this level, so -called, is married to Lakshmi,
just as in the unseen levels. And as for Lakshmi,
There are in India many, many, many shrines to
this goddess. There are shrines to this goddess
wherever there are the Hindu people. In Trinidad,
we were there. Becoming acquainted with some
of the people there, they were Hindus. And there
was one taxi driver that took us to his house
so that we could see his shrine. One room of
the house is set aside. and the this is what
they they all did their one room of the house
is set aside and it was made into a shrine and
here in this little shrine is this uh statue
of of lakshmi and um in the orient in in japan
and i don't know about china i didn't see anything
in hong kong but uh People in China, they have
little shrines and like that, and they have in
this shrine Kuanong, or as they call her in China,
Kuan Yin. And Kuan Yin is depicted as a female,
and women pray to him for children. And they
pray to him for safety. And they pray for whatever
women pray for, they pray to Kuanong. And the
statue of her stands in front of Shogen -ji.
And I think practically in every other temple
in Japan. And Kwan -an is called He because in
the beginning it was... Now I can't say it this
morning. Avalokiteshvara. Hmm? Yeah. The one
with the many hands. Now Rinzai at one time gave
a sermon about Manjuthri. Now this is the great
god of wisdom. And the people at that time were
going all over looking for this god of wisdom.
And then this Rinzai is saying, he's giving this
talk, and he says, there are some student monks
who look for Manjushri at the Wutai Shrine. Now
in China, there was at that time, I don't know,
there was like a mountain. And on this mountain
was this shrine built for, excuse me, Manjushri.
And he says that many monks are making pilgrimages
there seeking Manjushri. And he says, but they
have already taken the wrong road. There is no
Manjushri at Bhutaishan. Do you wish to know
where he is? There is something at this very
moment at work in you. It shows no tendency to
waver. There's something at work in you. It betrays
no disposition to doubt. There's something working
in you. And this is your living Manjushri. Not
in the shrine. The light of non -discrimination
which flashes through every thought of yours.
this is your universal sage this remains true
all the time every thought of yours knows of
itself every thought of yours knows of itself
how to break off the bondage. It is emancipated
in every moment. So when someone says to you,
and this is not Rinzai, someone says to you,
observe, what is it that you are really observing?
Do you observe every thought of yours and see
that in through that you can be free? Can you
see that even though you're thinking and judging
somebody that in that very thing itself there
is a non -discrimination? It flashes through
the thing. Any moment, any moment, any moment
when you can see that you can be free. Why are
you running to Wu Taishan? And he says, this
is entering into the samadhi of Avalokiteshvara.
Really, to really so observe yourself. It's a
lot of hard work once you get through playing.
Anyway, in this poem, the Ramayana, a sita is
carried away, by the the demon king and this
of course leads to this very famous war the bhagavad
-gita as you know is the war of arjuna he is
there and looking at this the soldiers all straight
you know here's one side and here's the other
side and he looks at him and he says how can
i fight there's my friends on this side there's
my family on this side and blah blah blah blah
and they turn around and here's my friends on
this side here's my family on this side They're
on both sides. How can I fight? Which side would
I choose? I can't. I can't fight them. And Christian,
you know, is in the chariot there with them,
and he tells them, fight! You are of that particular
caste. You do what you must do. And so then it
does, the book then through this war, it tells
you the four yoga systems. Hmm. Yeah. Now, the
war of Rama. And he fights these Rakshasas, which
name means raw eaters. And they are supposedly
giants, these demons. And by some they are considered,
in the Bible it talks about giants that are there.
remnants of the Atlanteans, leftovers from Atlanta.
And they're giants. They were giant people. So
now these are the raw eaters. And anyway, Hanuman,
who is the king of the monkeys, he is the general
of Rama's army. And this Hanuman is the son of
Vayu. And Vayu is the god of the wind, or the
god of the breath, or the voice, as it were.
Which is, you know, they mention that in the
Upanishads. So now the breath, or the voice,
is the faithful ally of Rama. the great creator
Vishnu and together with Sita or Lakshmi you
see Shiva the destroyer together we have creation
because unless something is destroyed nothing
new can come about so here we have these opposites
in there but anyway this Hanuman He is, the audacity
of him, you know, the temerity, you know, and
his wit and his humor, you know, he conquers.
So today in southern India, the monkeys are still
very revered. The rest of India, it's the cows,
but in southern India, it's the monkeys. And
maybe someday I can bring it down. I have a record.
of the monkey chants that they do to uh haman
anyway all that's all kind of a side issue because
that was a for instance now now if you were to
remove ravana that is the enemy The great giant,
Demon King. If you removed him from this story,
what would become of Rama? There would have been
no great war, so there would have, of course,
been no poem. Monkeys might have all been eliminated,
but why should you revere them? I mean, there's
been no Hanuman to know about. So we look at
something like that and we begin to see that
it's this challenge, you see, it's the opposition
to his enemy, to Ravana, that brings out this
resilience and audacity and temperance of Rama's,
character and it reveals you know the brilliance
that he develops in his personality ravana and
rama they grow with each other's support superficially
their enemies in the act what we call actuality
their enemies but in existence It's the use of
each other to grow. In the depths of life, they're
partners. So it is this struggle, you see. And
people say, why do we have to struggle so in
life? You know, God made this world, and it should
be nice and pleasant and really nice. And here
it is all nothing but a struggle. We struggle
to grow up, and when we're growing, we think
everything's going to be nice when we grow up.
I'm going to be 25, I'm going to be 21 or 25
or 30, and from there on out, it's going to be,
you know, I have reached a maturity, and I have
reached the age of reason, and now I can reason,
and I'm just as dumb as I was before. see so
the whole thing is just this struggle struggle
to keep a roof on your head over your head and
clothes on your body and food on your table and
not only that it's it's a struggle to keep your
health so you just don't lie down and die it's
this struggle that's where it comes along i heard
this little thing and i'm quite taken with it
uh the work ethic in this country you know is
has subsided somewhat yeah and so there was this
person on the TV and he said you know personally
I don't like work in this discussion he says
but it is through work that I find myself It
is in the struggle. It is in the challenge. You
may go to work and do the same thing all day
long. I mean, if you work in Detroit and you
put nuts on a wheel, why, that's what you do.
But you've got a lot of time to think while you're
doing it. And in that, maybe aggravation, who
knows what goes through these minds, rather than
letting the work ethic go, to really do the best
you can. and watching yourself all the time in
this work in this struggle it be the whole thing
can become a challenge and you will find something
not only will you find something but that very
challenge of doing it will bring about something
in you to help the character become laziness
never did it You know, in this seeming opposites,
in this struggle, you see, against, you see,
there are partners. You become partners with
something. You're collaborating with something.
But in yourself. Put it out there. It's in yourself.
And know, too, that this has to develop. You
can't struggle one day and then say, well, I
did it. Am I any better? Oh, yeah, now I got
character. No, no, it's on and on and on and
on and on and on. Boringly on and on and on.
And that's what develops. Something develops
out of that. So, you know, we find ourselves
tied to both, friend and foe. it's very difficult
to accept the opposite let's say someone here
is very angry with me let's say we're outside
and oh they are so angry they take off a shoe
and they hurl it at me you know you can be angry
in turn and the whole thing is a mishmash then
huh yeah or you can stand stand aside and say
Well, I wonder why he's so concerned about me
to take such trouble. I mean, the concern is
there. If he didn't care, he wouldn't throw the
shoe or rock or whatever. There is a caring of
some kind. And so I should become aware of the
trouble he is taking for me. And if I do that,
then other things will just pass me by and I
don't have to be involved just with this particular
caring. What we do generally is that we look
at one side and we forget the other. It's like
we pick a rose And we are so entranced with its
fragrance and its aroma and its beauty, and all
of a sudden, what have we got? Our finger is
bleeding. It's got a thorn. Hmm? This, you know,
and now we've forgotten the flower altogether.
Now we're concentrated on the thorn. We do this
all the time, and this is one of the great misfortunes
of man. Our vision is partial. Now, partial vision,
we can't say, as they would say if you were going
to church, that it's a sin. It's not really wrong.
It's just that it's not complete. We only see
one half of the picture. And the other half is
so contradictory that we can't relate one to
the other. So this doesn't fit, you see. Machiavelli,
you know, he wrote this book called The Prince,
and he writes in it, he says, the greater the
intimacy, the more cautious you should be of
your friend. The thicker the friendship, the
more vigilant you should be. If you do not want
your enemies to know the facts, take care that
your friends do not know them either. That was
this guy and how he thought things should operate.
So we know by now, too, that life changes at
every moment. Petula Clark sang a little song,
round every corner, you know. Life swings from
one extreme to the other extreme. In the depths,
you know, it's one life. And on the surface,
boompty boompty, but it's a bumpy road to ours,
isn't it? One place we have all the movement
and in another place place on quotation marks
because they really all together we have what
is what Eliot called a still point and That's
where the dancing is that has no movement to
and no movement It's just a very still point
yeah now if we begin to look for that still point
that depth you know we begin to see a little
more what we're like a little more what we do
and we might even find something else but if
you're just going to sit on the surface and go
bumping along i don't know how you would ever
begin to understand lao tzu because if you read
them in chinese you won't understand them either
oh well 30 spokes of the wheel combine at the
center And the usefulness of the wheel depends
on that empty space, that still point at the
center. Everything moves but that. Around that
which does not move. Now, there is a saying around
and about, if you meet the Buddha on the way,
kill him. this is started in the Orient with
some Roshi's and then the psychologist here picked
him up because what they're talking about of
course is your own images your imaging if you
have an image of the Buddha in your head get
rid of it if you have an image of Jesus in your
head, get rid of it. The image is not the thing
in itself, not the person. But however, if you
meet a real Buddha on the road, study him. Kill
the image and study the real one. Now, a Buddha,
you know he walks with a begging bowl so -called
and appears to have absolutely nothing so that
all around him is empty he has no wealth he has
no status in this world he has no palaces he
has no jewelry no glory no nothing now as far
as shakyamuni buddha is concerned at one time
he had all of that And he had all of that and
he felt empty. There was nothing in the world
out there that he could not have had just for
the asking. All that he could have had just for
asking for it. His revolving wheel was full.
And he felt what's the use of all this outside
fullness if he felt so poor within. So he went
to the forest and became a beggar. Or at least
this is what the legend says. It's how the legend
goes. I do not recommend that you do this. And
now after spending years and years and going
through all kinds of experiments in the forest
and becoming this beggar, you know now you meet
him. The outside is empty where before it was
full. Now the outside is empty, and before where
the inside was empty, this is now full. It reversed
itself. People writing, people who write books
and articles and so on, and they say a lot of
stuff that they don't know what they're talking
about, they say that you cannot accumulate wealth
and remain empty or become empty. I cannot say
that anybody who is making money, they're sharp
enough to, you know, to gather some wealth, that
he still can't find the way home within himself.
So I always say you do both. Be comfortable while
you're struggling. And there have been people
all over this world who struggled to have great
wealth and finally had it, and they turn around
and give it. They give it away. I mean, Gerald
Hurd gave the Tribucco Canyon Monastery to the
Vedanta Society, and it's a very, very lovely
place. And the big self -realization facility
on the coast over here, I don't remember who
gave it to them, but it was given to them. And
this was really very long. I guess, how come
we can sit here? First of all, Rosalind gave
us the land. And then Rosalind and Ernie lent
us the money to build the building. And we paid
it back, some of it. Well, Ernie died and said
the rest of the debt was canceled. That was fine,
so then Rosalind had to do the same thing too.
And then there was a woman by the name of Alice
Peake who left us some money, and by the time
her doll collection was sold, it had more than
quadrupled. And then, of course, Bill Soot says,
you give it to me, and the money that you had
from Alice Peake, and I'll see to it that you...
we'll get some interest on it. He paid his 22
% interest on the money. You see, and then they,
Suitses, you know, added some more, and Melody,
a tremendous amount. So, you see, little by little.
And it hasn't depleted anything from them, has
it? No. Ruth, and Rosalind, and there was Henry
Eklund. And Ernie, you know. And you know this
Ruth Suzuki, I'm given to understand that she
was at one time a very wealthy woman. And she
gave her wealth and her health to promote Zen.
She built the little hermitage over there at
Naitoko -ji. And she is so highly revered, you
know. You all know the story. They wanted to
make her a roshi, and she refused. She said she
wouldn't teach. And they told her that if she
wouldn't, why, she'd have to leave. And all the
monks rose up and said, unheard of, you know,
if she leaves, we all leave. So wealth and God
exist together. You know, it's still the same
old thing. When it comes to the final point,
it depends on the person. I'm not here saying
anything about giving money or anything. That
was not my point at all. It is the person. I
mean, they say that you can't do this and you
can't do that and you can't do the other thing.
I'm not so sure. It depends on the person. Everything
depends on the person. It depends on the person
and the motivation they have for seeking. It
depends on the person how hard they seek. I mean,
it all boils down here. What are you like? What
are you? What kind of character do you have?
The money is beside that. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't count. It is what you are doing with
your life. Are you really the river flowing to
the sea? You understand what I'm saying or trying
to say? Yeah. Okay, a pot is formed of clay,
but its usefulness is in its emptiness. They
speak of empty mind. You know your mind is empty.
If it were not for that, the first thought you
ever had, you would still have, and that would
be the only one but they flow through the same
with your feelings the first one you've had you
ever had you don't even remember they flow through
let them flow through they come and they're going
to go let them flow don't say this is my thought
or this is my feeling and this is the way i feel
now and hang on to it let it flow through when
you buy a pot you're going to go to the store
and you're going to buy a pot do you buy it for
the sake of the the pot or do you buy it for
the emptiness inside what are you buying actual
pot is the space what is visible to your eyes
and what you're usually buying is the limit of
that space hmm yeah it is its particular boundary
see this right here that's the boundary of the
space within if it were not for this both the
boundary and the space within those flowers couldn't
be there if the whole thing were solid you could
put nothing in it and if it didn't have any walls
it wouldn't hold any water or flowers but do
you go to the store to buy emptiness and then
we talk about a house Well, we're all sitting
here in this emptiness. The building consists
of walls. Nobody sits in the walls. But the walls
are what we call a house. It's the emptiness.
The walls divide the outside from the inside.
The walls, you know, keep us warm or cool in
here. If it's warm outside, we're a little cooler
in here. Or if it's cold outside, we're a little
warmer in here. keep the outside out and keep
the inside in there's the boundaries but the
use of the house see the walls are the actual
but the use of the house it's empty the house
were full of something you couldn't sit here
and when we talk about building something when
we were building this one did we talk about emptiness
we're going to build an emptiness A particular
kind of an emptiness? We design the doors and
the windows, huh? And we never give a thought
to the empty. We're giving a shape to the void.
Makes it precious, doesn't it? Any boundary.
Now, when you meet a person, casually what do
you look at the body the walls huh how about
looking at the empty within you people fall in
love pretty much like they go to the market to
buy a pot they're attracted by the form and of
course later on why they have all these regrets
and they begin to talk about the foolishness
of calling myself a fool. I think it's in the
Orthodox Christianity, Eastern Christianity,
that they talk about calling yourself foolish
has no points with God. Right on. You know, a
person is not significant because of his body
alone. But you know, I watched those skiers and
those skaters at the Olympics, and man alive,
the use that they can make of that body. All
the discipline that they go through to make a
use of. But it's a discipline that allows them.
You see, it's in the struggle, it's in the work
that I find myself. And they are then able to...
moving their bodies down that mountain, you know,
and shoom. I wish I could even do as good as
little Eddie. Yeah. You know, so this body is
very necessary. And if we didn't have it, we
wouldn't be here. Right? You couldn't sit in
the chair at all. But it is the empty that decides
the excellence. In the parlance of, let us say,
esoteric, it is in this empty in us there blooms
a flower. And this is how the Rosicrucians, you
know, depict it. They call it the rosy cross.
There is a cross in us and in the center of which
this rose is supposed to bloom at this very still.
point the rose blooms so we're nailed to this
cross within and this flower blooms this it's
the flower of love rose now this kind of a love
that blooms from this still point uh is neither
love nor hate as we usually know it you know
it is rather this very intrinsic essence this
great power that we call love. Do we usually
take time and trouble kind of to see and to witness
this in somebody else when we meet them? We meet,
a man sees somebody, and I've seen men do this.
They may not say anything out loud, but you can
just see it going through their heads. wow look
at her you know and then they proceed on from
there and I think wow I'm yourself or a woman
will say you know look at him Oh handsome and
you know with those words to ourselves way we
go and it's kind of like there's a mechanical
happening it's like somebody pressed a button
and turned on a fan and boy did you get lost
Hands work if you press a button. Tagore wrote
a poem about a monk they call in India Buddha
Bhikshu. Bhikshu is a monk. And this was an enlightened
monk. And he was one day, he was with his begging
bowl passing through. One village after another
and he came to this particular village and the
village prostitute is standing on the terrace
of her house And now this word prostitute, you
know here and today in this age This country
in particular I guess is a very derogatory People
of different times and different cultures have
had and do have different attitudes, different
words, you know, for naming such a person, woman,
man, too, down in this day, I guess. In the Orient,
you know, as I've said before, they're called
women of the willow world, who are... trained
in pillow talk. And in India where this particular
one lived, why they called her the daughter -in
-law of the village. Well, and there are some
psychologists I have read who say that wives
and prostitutes are in the same boat. The only
difference being that one has a short -term contract
and the other has a long -term contract. Anyway,
this daughter -in -law is standing on the terrace
of her house and she sees this picture. And she
sees somehow right away in him the integrity
that he has. And all this that shows by this
discipline. this beauty in him. And he has an
entirely different kind of dignity than she's
ever seen before. It's almost a majesty as he
walks down the road. And it's not anything that
he's doing, it's just because of the discipline
that he has. And just like that, she's in love.
She has seen these characters, characteristics
in him. And so she runs down from the terrace
and she approaches him and asks him to be her
guest for the night. And he declines and he does
it very nicely. And he says, you're young and
you're beautiful and your nights are not lonely.
But he says, I promise you that one day when
all your other lovers have discarded you. someday
when there is no one to hear you at all, you
will have a cry of sadness, and I will hear it,
and I will come. She didn't seem to hear all
of this stuff. It was just this tremendous blow
to her pride and this great disappointment that
she had. So 20 years later, Here's this same
Bhikshu now, this monk, and he's walking down
this very lonely road, and he hears someone groaning
over there just on the edge of the field on this
little dirt road. And he walks over and he passes
his hand over her face. He can't see her really.
It is dark. And he asked her what ailed her,
and she said, thirsty, need water. So he walked
to the nearby village that he had just come through
and he brought back water for her and a lamp.
And in this lighted lamp, he saw the face of
this woman, this daughter of the village, the
daughter -in -law who had spoken to him so many
years ago. Now she was a leper and she was thrown
out by the village people and no one wanted her.
So he gave her the water. He had heard that cry
and he had returned. Somehow he had heard it
and he took care of her. And she kept saying,
you know, it would have been better had you not
come. Not now. What's the use? You should have
stayed when I was young and when I was beautiful.
Her head is still in the wrong place. And he
said to her, to the effect, you know, but now
you are more wise. You have seen more life. You
have lived through things. You have experienced
pain, and you have experienced frustrations.
Your body now may be nothing, but you have some
space in you. There seems somehow at times something
within us that seems almost contrary to this
body I Mean, it's like we're we're struggling
with something To make it go with the body and
it's always seeming wants to go in another direction
And yet this something is very United with its
body This something that is here that we can't
seem to and it is elusive. We can call it empty,
for lack of a better word. It's what we struggle
with. In a way, it's what we struggle against
because we don't know what it is. But it is with
that that we struggle. For the empty. You know,
the little thing that Lao Tzu says about the
pot that is being empty is its usefulness that
pertains to man. To be an empty pot, you know,
is to be self -empty. Now, when things Things,
you know, are present. This is present, and this
is present, and this is present. You know, the
things that we see and feel and touch, you know,
and hear, we call it actual. It's an empirical
fact. This is hard. Hmm? To me. So this, you
know... What you know about yourself. You know,
this mystery of yourself. Make it actual. This
empty. Make it actual. Make it as actual as this
is actual. That's what you're supposed to be
doing. We call that a chair, huh? Yeah. What
is it if you do not call it a chair? What are
they so excited about? I wonder. If you do not
name something. Do not label something. You take
away a label and all of a sudden we don't seem
to know anything. I mean, we're lost. What is
that if it's not called a chair? What are you
without a name? Without any name? The non -presence,
we have a presence and a non -presence. The non
-present is such a mystery, it just blocks our
minds all the time. And yet it is that non -present
that we use all the time. It is the useful. Now,
I will say one thing. We would never be able
to find the mystery of ourselves unless the mystery
is in a container. We've got to be here. But
let us say all of a sudden the container is not,
well, if the container is not, the mystery is.
the actual the container and usually we see meaning
only in this actual so we say okay this is life
this is actual what about death is there any
meaning in it well people say you know it's it's
simply it's an end that's always some people
say some people say well it's an entry into a
new life we're going to have a new kind of life
now well supposing it's not an entry into a new
life But all it is is just a sudden closing of
some doors. We come into this that we call life,
and little by little we open doors, open new
vistas so we can see, you know, what actuality
is. We can see what this existence is. And when
we leave, we close the doors. Hmm? Big deal?
No big deal.